The criminalization of political speech and activism against Israel has become one of the gravest threats to free speech in the West. In France, activists have been arrested and prosecuted for wearing T-shirts advocating a boycott of Israel. The U.K. has enacted a series of measures designed to outlaw such activism. In the U.S., governors compete with one another over who can implement the most extreme regulations to bar businesses from participating in any boycotts aimed even at Israeli settlements, which the world regards as illegal. On U.S. campuses, punishment of pro-Palestinian students for expressing criticisms of Israel is so commonplace that the Center for Constitutional Rights refers to it as “the Palestine Exception” to free speech.
But now, a group of 43 senators — 29 Republicans and 14 Democrats — wants to implement a law that would make it a felony for Americans to support the international boycott against Israel, which was launched in protest of that country’s decades-old occupation of Palestine. The two primary sponsors of the bill are Democrat Ben Cardin of Maryland and Republican Rob Portman of Ohio. Perhaps the most shocking aspect is the punishment: Anyone guilty of violating the prohibitions will face a minimum civil penalty of $250,000 and a maximum criminal penalty of $1 million and 20 years in prison.
The proposed measure, called the Israel Anti-Boycott Act (S. 720), was introduced by Cardin on March 23. The Jewish Telegraphic Agency reports that the bill “was drafted with the assistance of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.” Indeed, AIPAC, in its 2017 lobbying agenda, identified passage of this bill as one of its top lobbying priorities for the year:
The bill’s co-sponsors include the senior Democrat in Washington, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, his New York colleague Kirsten Gillibrand, and several of the Senate’s more liberal members, such as Ron Wyden of Oregon, Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, and Maria Cantwell of Washington. Illustrating the bipartisanship that AIPAC typically summons, it also includes several of the most right-wing senators such as Ted Cruz of Texas, Ben Sasse of Nebraska, and Marco Rubio of Florida.
[Update – July 20, 2017: Glen Caplin, senior advisor to Gillibrand, sends along the following statement: “We have a different read of the specific bill language, however, due to the ACLU’s concerns, the Senator has extended an invitation to them to meet with her and discuss their concerns.”]
A similar measure was introduced in the House on the same date by two Republicans and one Democrat. It has already amassed 234 co-sponsors: 63 Democrats and 174 Republicans. As in the Senate, AIPAC has assembled an impressive ideological diversity among supporters, predictably including many of the most right-wing House members — Jason Chaffetz, Liz Cheney, Peter King — along with the second-ranking Democrat in the House, Steny Hoyer.
Among the co-sponsors of the bill are several of the politicians who have become political celebrities by positioning themselves as media leaders of the anti-Trump #Resistance, including three California House members who have become heroes to Democrats and staples of the cable news circuit: Ted Lieu, Adam Schiff, and Eric Swalwell. These politicians, who have built a wide public following by posturing as opponents of authoritarianism, are sponsoring one of the most oppressive and authoritarian bills that has pended before Congress in quite some time.
Last night, the ACLU posted a letter it sent to all members of the Senate urging them to oppose this bill. Warning that “proponents of the bill are seeking additional co-sponsors,” the civil liberties group explained that “it would punish individuals for no reason other than their political beliefs.” The letter detailed what makes this bill so particularly threatening to basic civic freedoms:
It is no small thing for the ACLU to insert itself into this controversy. One of the most traumatic events in the organization’s history was when it lost large numbers of donors and supporters in the late 1970s after it defended the free speech rights of neo-Nazis to march through Skokie, Illinois, a town with a large community of Holocaust survivors.
Even the bravest of organizations often steadfastly avoid any controversies relating to Israel. Yet here, while appropriately pointing out that the ACLU “takes no position for or against the effort to boycott Israel or any foreign country,” the group categorically denounces this AIPAC-sponsored proposal for what it is: a bill that “seeks only to punish the exercise of constitutional rights.”
The ACLU has similarly opposed bipartisan efforts at the state level to punish businesses that participate in the boycott, pointing out that “boycotts to achieve political goals are a form of expression that the Supreme Court has ruled are protected by the First Amendment’s protections of freedom of speech, assembly, and petition,” and that such bills “place unconstitutional conditions on the exercise of constitutional rights.” The bill now co-sponsored in Congress by more than half of the House and close to half of the Senate is far more extreme than those.
Thus far, not a single member of Congress has joined the ACLU in denouncing this bill. The Intercept this morning sent inquiries to numerous non-committed members of the Senate and House who have yet to speak on this bill. We also sent inquiries to several co-sponsors of the bill — such as Rep. Lieu — who have positioned themselves as civil liberties champions and opponents of authoritarianism, asking:
Congressman Lieu: Last night, the ACLU vehemently denounced a bill that you are co-sponsoring — to criminalize support for a boycott of Israel — as a grave attack on free speech. Do you have any comment on the ACLU’s denunciation? You’ve been an outspoken champion for civil liberties; how can you reconcile that record with an effort to make it a felony for Americans to engage in activism that protests a foreign government’s actions? We’re writing about this today; any statement would be appreciated.
This morning, Lieu responded: “Thank you for sharing the letter. The bill has been around since March and this is the first time I have seen this issue raised. We will look into it.” (The Intercept will post any response from Rep. Lieu, or any late responses from others, as soon as they are received.)
Sen. Cantwell told The Intercept she is “a strong supporter of free speech rights” and will be reviewing the bill for First Amendment concerns in light of the ACLU statement.
Democratic Sen. Chris Coons of Delaware, when asked by The Intercept about the ACLU’s warning that the bill he is co-sponsoring criminalizes free speech, affirmed his support for the bill by responding: “I continue to support a strong U.S./Israel relationship.”
Meanwhile, some co-sponsors seemed not to have any idea what they co-sponsored — almost as though they reflexively sign whatever comes from AIPAC without having any idea what’s in it. Democratic Sen. Gary Peters of Michigan, for instance, seemed genuinely bewildered when told of the ACLU’s letter, saying, “What’s the Act? You’ll have to get back to me on that.”
A similar exchange took place with another co-sponsor, one of AIPAC’s most reliable allies, Democratic Sen. Bob Menendez of New Jersey, who said: “I’d want to read it. … I’d really have to look at it.”
Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., a co-sponsor, said she hadn’t seen the ACLU letter but would give it a look. “I certainly will take their position into consideration, just like I take everybody’s position into consideration,” she said.
Gillibrand, the only senator in the 2020 presidential mix to co-sponsor the bill, told The Intercept she would have a statement to provide, which we’ll add as soon as it’s provided.
Perhaps most stunning is our interview with the primary sponsor of the bill, Democratic Sen. Benjamin Cardin, who seemed to have no idea what was in his bill, particularly insisting that it contains no criminal penalties.
But as the ACLU put it, “Violations would be subject to a minimum civil penalty of $250,000 and a maximum criminal penalty of $1 million and 20 years in prison.”
That’s because, as Josh Ruebner expertly detailed when the bill was first unveiled, “the bill seeks to amend two laws — the Export Administration Act of 1979 and the Export-Import Bank Act of 1945,” and “the potential penalties for violating this bill are steep: a minimum $250,000 civil penalty and a maximum criminal penalty of $1 million and 20 years imprisonment, as stipulated in the International Emergency Economic Powers Act.”
Indeed, to see how serious the penalties are, and how clear it is that those penalties are imposed by this bill, one can just compare the bill’s text in Section 8(a), which provides that violators will be “fined in accordance with Section 206 of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1705),” to the penalty provisions of that law, which state:
That the bill refers to the fine, but not the prison sentence, is not enough to prevent a judge from applying the statute’s prison term, because the bill brings the statute into play, said Faiz Shakir, the ACLU’s political director, who authored the letter to the Senate. “The referral to the statute keeps criminal penalties in play, regardless of what their preference for punishment might be,” said Shakir.
The bill also extends the current prohibition on participating in boycotts sponsored by foreign governments to cover boycotts from international organizations such as the U.N. and the European Union. It also explicitly extends the boycott ban from Israel generally to any parts of Israel, including the settlements. For that reason, Ruebner explains, the bill — by design — would outlaw “campaigns by the Palestine solidarity movement to pressure corporations to cut ties to Israel or even with Israeli settlements.”
This pernicious bill highlights many vital yet typically ignored dynamics in Washington. First, journalists love to lament the lack of bipartisanship in Washington, yet the very mention of the word “Israel” causes most members of both parties to quickly snap into line in a show of unanimity that would make the regime of North Korea blush with envy. Even when virtually the entire world condemns Israeli aggression, or declares settlements illegal, the U.S. Congress — across party and ideological lines — finds virtually complete harmony in uniting against the world consensus and in defense of the Israeli government.
Third, AIPAC continues to be one of the most powerful, and pernicious, lobbying forces in the country. In what conceivable sense is it of benefit to Americans to turn them into felons for the crime of engaging in political activism in protest of a foreign nation’s government? And this is hardly the first time they have attempted to do this through their most devoted congressional loyalists; Cardin, for instance, had previously succeeded in inserting into trade bills provisions that would disfavor anyone who supports a boycott of Israel.
Finally, it is hard to put into words the irony of watching many of the most celebrated and beloved congressional leaders of the anti-authoritarian Resistance — Gillibrand, Schiff, Swalwell, and Lieu — sponsor one of the most oppressive and authoritarian bills to appear in Congress in many years. How can one credibly inveigh against “authoritarianism” while sponsoring a bill that dictates to American citizens what political views they are and are not allowed to espouse under threat of criminal prosecution? Whatever labels one might want to apply to the sponsors of this bill, “anti-authoritarianism” should not be among them.
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Top photo: Demonstrators protest outside Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s office in New York City on June 9, 2016.
There is NO SUCH THING as “Palestine” anymore….not since Israel was created in 1947.
From the River to the Sea, ISRAEL will be free!
I would imagine even if it passed that it would be implemented about as many times as the criminal provisions of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act. Zero.
I’m surprised more don’t support it, considering that jewish donors comprise 50% of Democrat and 25% of Republican funding.
http://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/US-Jews-contribute-half-of-all-donations-to-the-Democratic-party-468774
Unreal the traitors we have in America. The biggest and dumbest group of all supporting these sell outs are the CHRISTIAN-ZIONIST.
…and quit paying the PA blood money. It’s an abomination the way they treat their own people, let alone Israel.
Just quit funding the UN and expel them from American shores. God has His hand over Israel. There is no greater security than that.
Land of the Free? Home of the Brave? Who needs lawmakers and laws like these? Apparently, the criminal class running the country does…
Yes. We’re A-OK with reserving our boycotts for Russia, Iran and North Korea.
…because it’s so totally the Russians that are meddling in our politics.
*nods emphatically*
First Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. https://www.aclu.org/united-states-bill-rights-first-10-amendments-constitution#firstamendment
1. isreal is a establishment of religion
2. a boycott is free speech
This shows me our politicians are willing to violate and/or ignore laws for their benefit, even at the cost of persecuting US citizens. The US has no place or business criticizing other countries, period.
He doesn’t even understand his own bill, or is he just playing dumb?
We became stupid when we start discussing the obvious.
NEW LAWthe SOUL OF AMERICA Act.
1. NO member of congress or elected office or appointed office or managerial position may hold citizenship of a foreign (including israel) country.
2. All current such persons must either RENOUNCE any other citizenship or LEAVE their office. Failing to do either of these shall be cause for charge of treason, arrest and trial. Punishment shall be banishment and stripping of all assets.
This is America. Of by and for Americans, only.
I hate to say this. Many of the democratic Jewish American politicians who support this bill are people I’ve supported as Champions of progressives. I now suspect that their progressive values stop at the special interest level of Israel and they employ the fascist program at this point. I certainly don’t believe in demonizing or injuring Israel despite it terrible oppression of Palestinian rights but I find support for this bill to be something to the right of anything Trump would do. In the future I will be reluctant to vote for Jewish politicians who have not taken a critical stand on Israel as Bernie Sanders has done and even if they do, given the 180 fascist turn of progressive champions like Shumer and Blumenthal, should I trust them?
Schumer? Progressive? Like when he voted for the invasion of Iraq, the patriot act, the NDAA, weapons deals to Saudis, and is co-sponsor of this bill?
Bernie Sanders? Critical of Israel? Like when he voted in favor of the 51 day slaughter in Gaza? Or when he openly is against BDS, and hasn’t ever mentioned Israel occupying Syrian land, who supports regime change (non-violently, if such a thing exists)…
You may need to be more ‘critical’ of you support. Just a suggestion
With the passage of this bill we, US citizens, will become subjects of the Zionist regime…
I think that boat has sailed, they’re just raising the flag now.
Those must be really bad people if it’s to be believable that people once wanted to turn them into lampshades and bars of soap. LOLOLOL
The Talmudists want us all broke, sick, or dead, and that’s a fact… and the central tenet of their “faith.”
A common complaint of critics of Israel, is that Israel’s supporters try to stifle them by accusing them of anti-Semitism. I certainly agree that not all criticisms of Israel are anti-Semitic (i.e. I frequently criticize Israel myself, but I’m never anti-Semitic). However, it is just as wrong to pretend as though anti-Semitism is entirely nonexistent, and is just something fabricated out of thin air by Israel’s supporters. Slvrizgold’s remarks (“Those must be really bad people if it’s to be believable that people once wanted to turn them into lampshades and bars of soap. LOLOLOL The Talmudists want us all broke, sick, or dead, and that’s a fact… and the central tenet of their ‘faith.’”) prove that anti-Semitism is quite real, and hence is not wholly irrelevant in this matter.
Since you do not know who Slvrizgold is you cannot speak to his motive and you cannot say it proves anything whatsoever.
He might be a teenager in Israel with dual citizenship, like the kid that was phoning in threats to Jewish community centers.
Let us note that your interpretation of his post clearly demonstrates who benefits from posts such as his. Cui bono?
Levi Tate- your willingness to believe the possibility that anti-Semitism doesn’t really exist, and is entirely manufactured by Jews in order to manipulate and gain sympathy, reveals a lot about you… I thus pose to you the only question that really matters in this whole discussion (which I bet, from your answer to it, will confirm what you’ve revealed about yourself in your response to my initial comment): what is your vision for peace?
I said “anti-Semitism doesn’t really exist” and “is entirely manufactured by Jews” ?
Or did you just hear those things in your head?
You also seem to believe you knew what I would say in response
to you, that it would confirm what you already believed about me.
G-d help you.
No, Levi- I chose my words very carefully: I didn’t say that you said “anti-Semitism doesn’t really exist” and “is entirely manufactured by Jews”- what I specifically said was, “your willingness to believe the possibility that…”, which was clearly demonstrated by your automatic suggestion that the anti-Semitic comment I had initially referred to may have been a “false flag”.
And you ducked my question, so I’ll repeat it: WHAT IS YOUR VISION FOR PEACE? (If I knew for certain in advance what you answer is, then why would I bother asking it? I only ask questions to find out what I DON’T already know. I do have a *hunch*, based on the fact that you reflexively dismiss blatant, virulent anti-Semitism with, “That could just another Israeli Jew being deceptive”, rather than react with, “This is DISGUSTING, and I will fight hatred in ALL forms, with the same passion and righteous indignation with which I relentlessly bash Israel.”) And if you think I’m being too presumptuous about you, then fine- feel free to go ahead and dispel my cynicism with a pleasant surprise. #arablivesmatter #jewishlivesmatter
Your community has willingly attacked my human / civil rights in order to prop up your country’s (Israel) governmental policies. I am now perfectly willing to see you as an enemy and see to it that those with dual citizenships are barred from office.
Jacob Johnson- you speak of my “community”- could you please elaborate? And in your answer to this, please reference *specific* statements of mine, that indicate to you what my “community” is. So before answering this question, you should read through all of the comments that I’ve posted to this page, to get the most accurate understanding of my position. What you should find- if you read through my comments without any bias against me- is that I have spoken imploringly and emphatically in favor of seeking peace (probably more so than any other commenter on this page… if I’m wrong, and you find someone else who had advocated for peace more strongly than I did, please let me know who this was, and I’ll eagerly read their comments).
Thus as a seeker of peace, I would say my “community” is all those who strive for peace, and the ideals which are necessary for peace (tolerance, compassion, respect, empathy- all that groovy stuff). And so my enemies, would be those opposed to peace… Jacob- you said you regard me as an enemy, so, are you in favor of eternal strife, and suffering, and hatred, and misery?
!>israel is an apartheid state.
!>israelis murder people to steal their land.
!>israel uses white phosphorus as a weapon.
!>israelis are acting upon a plan to create wars in the middle east to kill people, dispossess people, to steal their land – the YINON PLAN.
!>israeli citizens and their elected whores in the US are criminally bent on killing freedom of speech, expression and protest in the United States of Amerca.
!>i once read that the ashkenazi’s used Adolf and friends to rid the country of the sephardics.
!>israelis typically find cause to critisize and condemn Americans.
!>israelis often cannot see the difference between Jewish persons and zionists.
!>israelis are hypocritically dupicitous in their zeal to demand a country of their own and deny a country for the Palestinians who also want a country of their own where they live now. Their self-aggrandized Boycott of the human spirit results in a Divestiture of morality and breeds evil minds resulting in a Sanctioning of rights and good welfare toward Palestinians and others.
huh- your comment can basically be summed up with: “Israelis = Bad, Palestinians = Good”. But the reality is not so simple… YES, Israel has done wrong, BUT the Palestinians haven’t exactly been totally angelic saints either. Thus due to the myriad complexities of the situation, a proper treatment of this requires a bit more than the usual comment length. Hence I’d like to direct you to an op-end that I wrote, that gives my arguments against BDS: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/5/11/1660715/-Open-Letter-To-Daniel-Pipes
Under International law, occupied people have the right to resist their occupation. They have no obligation to be “angelic saints.” The occupier did not occupy them by doling out tea and honey.
You have to get out of the mentality of “both sides are bad,” if you actually seek a solution. It’s not always true, that there is always an “other side.” There is no “both sides” to Nazism. There is no “both sides” to Israeli occupation. Maybe, there once was, and I’m not so sure. But there definitely isn’t a “both sides” case now. Israel willfully, violently, systematically, deprives the Palestinians the ability to be little more than animals. And they humiliate Palestinians every chance they get. The more violent your rhetoric against Palestinians, the more likely you’re some sort of “minister” in the Israeli government. It’s packed with racists. And while you call out other people’s insensitivities about how they talk about Jews, with which I agree with you, you should try to have similar sensitivities about Palestinians. Israel is a racist and apartheid state. It’s behavior and culture should be changed. It’s practices should not be defended. I’m not saying that you’re defending Israel, but these “both sides are bad” arguments make you sound like you are.
+1
+2
+10
Sandra,
I wanted to commend you for trying to seek a solution. While I don’t agree with your approach, I’m pretty sure it’s a good first, or second, or third step. Your heart is obviously in the right place. It’ll just take some time for you to disconnect your mind/head, from the positive emotions you feel towards Israel. It’s a racist culture. Sooner or later, you’ll come around to seeing what a destructive force such a culture can be, to ordinary human beings, on every side.
And people engaging you on this issue will sometimes be highly charged (including myself sometimes). Try not to take the things said on these discussion boards personally.
Cheers :)
Hi again, AtheistInChief. I appreciate that you take into consideration my honest good intentions. What motivated me to start writing on this topic, was distress over the ongoing suffering resulting from this protracted conflict, and my panic from the realization that Israel is foolishly endangering its very survival with the current course it’s on. So I’ve been trying to promote the idea that the fastest path to peace is a mutually agreed upon compromise, but neither side will agree to giving up anything so long as they feel that they’re completely in the right and the other side is completely in the wrong, and so this is why I point out the fault in both sides. However because this issue is so highly polarized, with most people strongly favoring one side over the other (or so it seems from what I’ve seen thus far in these discussions), I end up getting into disagreements with just about everyone… So I also appreciate your concern for my feelings, but I’ve been called every name in the book, and it’s never bothered me, because I know it’s trivial compared with what people are enduring over there (like the Gazans, who are now living with only a couple of hours of electricity a day, if that…)
I know that not all conflicts have two valid sides (the Nazis as you pointed out are an obvious counterexample), but I just don’t think things are as clear cut in the case of the Israelis & Palestinians. But when I said that “the Palestinians haven’t exactly been totally angelic saints”, I didn’t mean by that to characterize them all as violent psychos (and I will acknowledge that Palestinians are the target of this sort of stereotyping, so you’re also right that bigotry in that direction definitely does exist and is every bit as wrong and harmful as anti-Jewish prejudice). Many Palestinians actually are thoroughly sweet, wonderful people (like those in the Palestine-Loves-Israel group that I’d linked to in another comment), however… plenty of Palestinians, regrettably, do also happen to be violent psychos. International law may permit an occupied people to resist the occupiers, but it doesn’t force anyone to murder innocent children- that is a *choice*, and I’d say it’s a very bad one.
But, I do maintain hope. You use the term “racist” to describe Israel, but I don’t think that’s really true. Yes, some Israeli Jews are bigoted (just as some Palestinians are), but lots of Israeli Jews aren’t (again, just like the Palestinians). I say bigoted rather than racist, because they’re essentially extended family, and they all know this. So I believe that mutual warmth and affection between these ancestral cousins can win out in the end, in spite of everything. And I know the situation isn’t entirely hopeless (as I’ve seen so many despairingly say), because if this article is correct (http://fair.org/extra/the-myth-of-the-generous-offer/), then they had actually once gotten *tantalizingly* close to a solution (one which sounded very similar to the sort of compromise that I’ve been proposing, in fact), however according to this article, it had been rejected (by the Israeli side, which lends weight to your position that the Israelis have been more at fault). But if the Palestinians had been willing to accept such a deal before, then maybe they would be willing to agree to it again? In which case it just becomes a matter of getting the Israelis to agree to it, which I think they will once they realize what I had said in the very beginning of this (probably way too long) comment- which is that the path they’re now on will lead to Israel’s demise (for if Israel keeps expanding the settlements in the West Bank, then a two state solution will no longer be possible, leaving one state as the only remaining option, and since one state would be roughly half Arab, it would effectively no longer be “Israel”…)
What I gather from reading your post Sandra, (and I don’t mean this pejoratively or with any kind of insinuations, just as a matter of fact, as it seems to me) that you’re steeped in literature or newspaper columns or books that argue the Israeli side. It’s time for you to read Goliath, by Max Blumenthal. You don’t have to agree with it. It’s just a way to guage what the other side thinks it’s going through. It’s a lot better than wading through personal insults on a discussion board :)
I disagree that the two sides had once gotten “tantalizingly” close. That’s just how it was reported. And as I remember, the fault for not reaching that last mile was dumped squarely on Arafat. It’s not the case as far as I can tell. If you have time, watch this debate between Norman Finkelstein, and Shlomo Ben Ami, who was foreign minister during the Camp David talks. It’s interesting to say the least. You can watch this debate between Norman Finkelstein and Shlomo Ben Ami to get a differnt point of view. It’s about 50 minutes long, so watch it when you can
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-CiTT2OxlQ
I’ll tell you a story someone once told me to describe why the Israel/Palestine issue will not be solved. I can’t take credit for this analysis, but I thought it was apt, and I’d like to share it with you.
Suppose you and I bought a pizza, and before we ate it, we had to decide how to divide the pizza between us. But the Pizza is in my control, and I am physically bigger and stronger, and I also have all the guns and ammunition, and we’re going to negotiate who gets how much of the Pizza. But as we negotiate, the Pizza is still in my control, and I keep eating it, as we negotiate. And there’s nothing you can really do about it despite your histrionics about me eating the Pizza during the negotiation. If that’s the situation, then it will never be in my interest to stop the “negotiations,” because that’ll mean I’ll have to stop eating the Pizza, and give you what is rightfully yours. So as long as I have all the guns and ammunition and am physically stronger, and no outside force can compel me to finalize the negotiations, the “negotiations” will continue.
If Israel is not forced, the “peace process” will continue, and the pizza of the palestinian lands, will continue to be eaten. It’s not in Israel’s interests to finalize the process, as long as Israeli ministers believe that they can solve the Jewish majority problems by just expelling Palestinians to Jordan, which some of them believe they can do.
You may believe that only “some” Israelis are bigoted, just like “some” Palestinians are crazy. But you’re completely wrong. You’ve either never been to Israel and been in any conversations with Israelis about how they feel about Palestinians, or you’ve blocked it out of your mind. I’ve never been to Israel. But after reading Max Blumenthal, I’m convinced it’s a sick society, far worse than Apartheid South Africa. Bigotry against Palestinians, it seems, is part of being an Israeli. At least, that’s how it seems to me.
Anyway. I understand that you think you’re correct, and that I’m being too harsh. But my advice to you would be to do some reading of writers you may despise. If nothing else, it’ll provide some perspective of the other side’s thought process, and maybe make you better armed with superior arguments of your own.
I cannot recommend anybody better than Max Blumenthal for you to read. Despite what people say about Max, he is a Jew who practices his religion, and takes being Jewish seriously, and believes that, being Jewish is why he does what he does. And his writing is exceptionally brilliant. He has an uncanny ability to make the things he writes about palpably real.
I wish you well.
PS. Since we’ve been arguing, I just wanted you to know that you’ve been engaged in a discourse with an ex-Muslim (non-Palestinian).
Fine- I’ll read that Max Blumenthal book (but it’ll probably be a while before I can get to it, because I’m currently wending my way through Dennis Ross’s epic tome “The Missing Peace”, which gives a perspective of the conflict from the very highest levels of the past negotiations).
And I see your point with the pizza analogy, but I believe that Israel does have an incentive to negotiate peace, even though the status quo may (on the surface) seem to be in their favor- and this incentive is basically what I had said at the very end of my previous comment to you, which is that Israel is in fact threatening its own existence with its shortsighted, continued appropriation of land in the West Bank, for this is making the attainment of a two state solution more difficult, and one state would essentially be the end of Israel. Some extremists on the Israeli side may desire the expulsion of all the Palestinians from the West Bank in order to achieve their “Greater Israel” fantasy as you had mentioned, but any such mass “ethnic cleansing” would of course be a humanitarian travesty and is thus totally unacceptable (and likewise, I would regard the forced eviction of the Jewish settlers as ethnic cleansing, which is why I argue against that as well. That the Jewish settlers may not be where they are “legally”, I don’t feel really matters, just as I’m opposed to the deportation all of the millions of illegal immigrants in the U.S. But the U.S. and the Palestinians have the option to be choose to be magnanimous, and grant amnesty to those currently residing in their lands illegally, rather than undergoing the unsavory, large scale militarized operation required to remove that many people). And not only can’t the Palestinians be sent to Jordan, but if Israel eventually does annex the entire West Bank, then all of the Palestinian inhabitants of the territory _must_ be made full Israeli citizens, for otherwise Israel would cease to be a democracy (but if the Palestinians all become Israeli citizens, then Israel would lose its Jewish majority… hence why I feel that a two state solution is best for the survival of Israel- and Palestine too, naturally.) And since you’ve shared your background- I will disclose what you’ve probably already guessed, which is that I’m an American Jewish woman (committed to Jewish ideals, like Blumenthal.) :)
Dennis Ross is part of the problem. There’s nothing you’ll find in his book, but things that reinforce what you already believe, and have read in the papers. He’s part of the reason peace did not occur. I doubt there’s going to be any useful information in that book, other than reinforcing in you the pious intentions of the Israeli govt. and the devious intractable recalcitrant nature of the Palestinians. But you already believe this, so why waste your time reading a book by a guy who’ll tell you the exact same thing. Watch the Shlomo Ben Ami interview. He will also give you insights from the “highest” levels.
Anyway. Dennis Ross is a waste of time.
He’s not criticizing Israel at all. He’s just being an anti-semitic dick. I wouldn’t engage with him.
What is good for Israel should be good for America. NO “dual citizen” allowed in government.
Israel: Three dual-citizen MKs ordered to annul their foreign passports
by Shahar Ilan – Haaretz – Feb18 2009
The Central Elections Committee has ordered three Knesset members with dual citizenship to annul their foreign passports by next Tuesday’s swearing-in ceremony, or at least begin steps to cancel them.
The three lawmakers are Yohanan Plesner of Kadima (who has Danish citizenship), Nitzan Horowitz of Meretz (a Polish citizen) and Yisrael Beiteinu’s Anastasia Michaeli, who holds a Russian passport. The Basic Law on the Knesset states that “a member of Knesset holding an additional citizenship that is not Israeli … will not take the oath of loyalty until he has done everything he can to relinquish it.” –
Nobody can have loyalty to TWO Nations at the same time. SO nobody with “dual citizenship” should be allowed to hold any post in our government.
Where is the investigation of ISRAELI “collusion in American elections”?!
How many of YOUR/America’s $4+BILLION in WELFARE given to Israel every year comes back to America in the form of BRIBES to “american” politicians? Traitors voting to give Israel MORE, so they can get bigger BRIBES. .
http://investmentwatchblog.com/former-us-lawmaker-cynthia-mckinney-says-every-candidate-for-congress-has-to-sign-a-pledge-to-vote-for-supporting-the-military-superiority-of-israel/
an emissary of the Israeli govt campaigned in florida for mitt romney.
Dual citizens in the US contribute money, advertising and more to American candidates.
The whores in congress are embarrassed to believe that Russia could be competition for israel and the entire situation is a double wammy on their hypocrisy.
Also the israelis are probably complaining loudly that Russia should not be allowed to compete with the – since they want a monopoly on pimping out their candies like wallstreet goldsackers want a monopoly on the US economy.
Truly sickening.
The objective of terrorists is to subjugate a population to their will by use of fear thru harm threats or intimidation as in breaking a horse. By doing so a population will become subverient and obedient to their masters and know their place.
All those persons or organizations who use violence or threats and intimidations to subject persons to their will or to their prescribed writs, are terrorists.
You spoke of “terrorists”. It might interest you to know that the anti-BDS movement showed their true 1984 colors when they proposed that BDS supporters be put on a watch list similar to the terrorist watch list.
Responding to the ACLU, the primary sponsors of the bill, Cardin and Portman, recently put their signatures to a letter. The actual author of the letter appears — *appears* — to be Martin A. Weiss.
Martin A. Weiss authored a strategy piece two years ago that included this paragraph:
“If Members of Congress are disposed to propose legislation regarding BDS, they might consider using as points of reference the legal and regulatory frameworks Congress and the U.S. Government have used to designate terrorists. For example, there could be a dual system whereby Congress could explicitly designate BDS “offenders” through legislation, while Congress could also establish frameworks under which the Departments of State, Treasury, or other executive branch agencies could designate “offenders” on a case-by-case basis using a number of criteria (which could include market behavior and its impact or potential impact on Israel, evidence of intent, coordination with other parties, etc.). Congress could require the executive branch to justify its designations/non-designations through reports, either as a matter of course or upon congressional or congressional leadership request. Such congressional designation measures, however, could raise bill of attainder concerns under the Constitution.”
fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33961.pdf
Alas, as we have seen from the Magnitsky Act, Bills of Attainder are no longer the taboo thing that they were when our Founding Fathers banned them.
How is it that a foreign country can even lobby our lawmakers in the first place???? Are they kidding? Go back to your own country and make your own laws, what the hell?
Foreign interference is an outrage felt by many.
A lot of comments here (607 as of this writing) did anyone discuss the Big Brother provision?
If you or your church request that, for example, Trader Joes participate in BDS,
Trader Joes is required, per this new bill, to report you to the (Zionist controlled) government.
This represents a complete take over of our government.
Your posts have been very informative.
Thank you !
The us congress has been referred to as Israeli occupied territory for decades
This is the start of the beginning of the end of free speech.
So where is the bill’s language that creates the crime? Or do we just take your word for it?
There is a lot of horse shit being dropped in DC these but this bill seems to be the mother load. No one with a working brain stem would sit and watch Israelis practice outright murder without becoming pissed and wanting to do something to stop it. I don’t like or want to be locked up but I’ll be damned if I will shut up. I will call these assholes to knock it off and get to work.
And people wonder why I hate Jews..
Boycott Israel? Heck, I am boycotting red states.( Bringing it home!)
Cardin — 50 years of state and Congress life — never worked in his life
In my effort to understand all aspects of this proposed bill, could someone reply to the following letter of response from Cardin and Portman to the ACLU dated July 20, 2017: https://www.cardin.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Cardin-Portman%20response%20to%20ACLU%20Israel%20Anti-Boycott%20Act%207-20-17.pdf
I’ll do it.
It is flim flam.
ps,
But you knew that.
At least with a name like “Greenwald” no one can dare call Glenn and ‘anti-semite’ which is the politically correct mantra we hear whenever we point out the war crimes of this manufactured country. Thank you for writing this, hopefully many will become educated.
All countries are ‘manufactured’
I guess if this bill is passed, Jimmy Carter will spend the rest of his life in prison and with him, the first amendment will die.
“Whatever labels one might want to apply to the sponsors of this bill, “anti-authoritarianism” should not be among them.” Here are some labels that may best apply: bought off, two faced, traitors, bully worshipers, hypocrites, phonies, masters of dereliction of duty and violators of their oath of office.
Amen, I already posted. This is the beginning of the end of free speech.
The US congress is acting to boycott America and the Constitution and attempting a covert overthrow in an act of sedition.
US congress, weak cowardly unamerican sadistic whores for wallstreet, war, and satanic practices.
Well, perhaps the BDS org can disband and reorganize to inform people what to buy (no wink required).
“Here are the products you should buy, they are from The State Of Israel, the country that decides what freedoms you are permitted”
“And here are the companies that do business with The State of Israel, the country that decides what freedoms you are permitted”
Then people can choose to buy those products and patronize those companies.
https://bdsmovement.net/
So what does Mossad have on all these jokers in power that they can be bent to Israel’s wants and needs in this regard?
In fact the whole exercise can only polarise the public to the extent that individuals will try their best to silently keep away from all the products / produce from Israel.
Just wondering how would they treat any parliamentarian or a senator or a congressman if he / she voices opposition on the floor of the house. Would they be fined / jailed/ disbarred for breaking the stupid law?
Yup. it is a vast Jewish conspiracy b/c no other lobbying group actually asks for support for their position in order to give candidates money. is this journalism? not one single sentence on the impetus to this. all politicians are just puppets being moved by strings of Jews with bags of money. so any politician who supports Israel and thinks it is in our best interests to support them is just tool. anyone who has questions about motives of BDS is blinded by money. so not insightful.
Many people oppose Walmart, but you don’t see their lobbyists wanting to impose huge fines and/or sent them off to jail for publicly announcing it. This law is absurd.
This:
“the very mention of the word “Israel” causes most members of both parties to quickly snap into line in a show of unanimity that would make the regime of North Korea blush with envy”
is the direct result of the double bind that has been posed by the Anti-Defamation League’s chronic whinging about anti-semitism, and the lack of outcry as we watched their nests of spies across America morph nto the DHS surveillance state.
AL spying turns into DHS model of Schtetl Security: https://psmag.com/news/kings-garbage-76228
The ADL and their many adherents are the Judenräte of our era
former congresswoman Cynthia McKinney explained their inexplicable behavior.
In an interview which aired on Press TV on Saturday–one day before the AIPAC conference got under way in Washington–former Georgia Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney revealed what amounts to some pretty startling news regarding the extent of the Israeli lobby’s influence over Congress.
During her years in Congress, she stated, candidates for both the House and the Senate were requested to sign pledges of support for Israel, documents in which the candidate promised to vote to provide consistent levels of economic aid to the Zionist state. Refusal to sign the pledge meant no funding for the candidate’s campaign. “You make a commitment that you will vote to support the military superiority of Israel—the economic assistance that Israel wants, that you would vote to provide that,” McKinney, who served in Congress from 1993-2003 and again 2005-2007, tells Press TV interviewer Marzieh Hashemi in the two-part video program below. According to McKinney, the pledge also included a vow to support Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel. “Every candidate for Congress at that time had a pledge, they were given a pledge to sign…” she said. “If you don’t sign the pledge, you don’t get money. For example, it was almost like water torture for me. My parents observed this. I would get a call and the person on the other end of the phone would say ‘I want to do a fundraiser for you.’ And then we would get into the planning. I would get really excited, because of course you have to have money in order to run a campaign. And then two weeks, three weeks into the planning, they would say, ‘Did you sign the pledge?’ And then I would say, ‘No, I didn’t sign the pledge.’ And then my fundraiser would go kaput.” During her years in Congress, McKinney opposed U.S. involvement in foreign wars, questioned the official version of the events of 911, and introduced articles of impeachment against former President George W. Bush. Her final term in Congress came to an end after AIPAC, or the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, funneled money into the campaign of her opponent, Hank Johnson.
President Trump is not a member of the CFR, not a participant of the tri-lateral commission, not a bilderberger, and is his own person, good bad or otherwise – and that scares the organized crime cult of elected whores who just want a paycheck and disrespect America.
Is there a better example of the harm that comes from the corrupting influence of money in politics?
This is straight up extortion.No other word for it.
Not a peep out of Rachel Maddow, Andrea Mitchell, Lawrence O’Donnell, Joy Reid, Chris Hayes and the rest of the so called liberals at MSNBC. PEP’s
And you won’t hear any from these pathetic pseudo-lefts, either. What hypocrites! They go after Trump citing (unproven) interference by Russia in the U.S. elections, but are willing to support Israel controlling what Americans can say about Israel!!! Which is proven interference in the U.S. government and its laws. This stinks to high heaven.
Thank you for exposing to Americans how a foreign Israeli lobby like AIPAC controls our local politicians even at the expense of our constitution and foreign affairs.
This is some scary stuff.
Israel owns the United States. This is just like when Netenyahu addressed Congress.
Sickening what aipac can do with money. (Read, blackmail). But worse, they know Trump and his staff are weak. Good timing.
We need to stand up to this and protect American interests.
@bahhummingbug
classification is an art not a science
unless its classified science
so the art of classifying science can be considered a science
the first derivative is the instantaneous slope at a point on a function curve
and the second derivative is the rate of change of that slope as the function curve is evaluated point-by-point
classifying derivatives would require using derivative classification, since derivatives themselves are not classified
@mussolini
comments curation is a power center for young pro writers without any real reputation or influence
Thank you, Mr Grim, for blindsiding those among the Democrats who themselves are blind to AIPAC’s slimeball tactics. I have never been able to understand AIPAC’s reason for being– helping to transform the thoughtful, vulnerable students of humanity into virulent schoolyard bullies.
Israel is the morally only and best defence for the Jewish Holocaust!
Palestine is the morally only and best defense against the Jewish Holocaust against Palestinians.
If Israel want a Holocaust against the Palestinians, by now there would have been no Palestinians. In reality there are no “Palestinians”
only a fake name applied by Arafat.
Liar.
Good story.
Choiceless awareness, awareness of self is a work in progress. Hopefully this will be true of political officials.
“THUS FAR, NOT a single member of Congress has joined the ACLU in denouncing this bill.”
If they do denounce this bill, AIPAC will throw everything they have at trying to unseat them. They have done this for a long time.
The reality is that these Senators and Congressmen are more afraid of the political pressure that Israle and AIPAC can produce than they are of the political pressure that the ACLU and the American populace can produce. We need to up the pressure.
I twice tried to post a comment to the most recent article on Reality Winner. Everyone has issues they want to suppress (In the case of The Intercept, it was winning legal strategies for Reality Winner). But only the US government is prevented from suppressing them by the First Amendment, which is unfair. This bill attempts to right that injustice.
The Intercept is attempting to impose a limitation on the US government that it would not tolerate for itself. What is the purpose of being the most powerful entity on the planet, if your hands are tied behind your back? So I call on The Intercept to exercise a bit of empathy for the plight of the US government. Do not demand restrictions on their actions that you would not yourselves accept.
The preceding comment appeared, so I feel compelled to praise Mr. Greenwald, who does tolerate free speech to a much higher degree than anyone else out there. His articles often have many more comments than articles by other Intercept writers. Some of them must spend most of their time deleting comments. I suppose this has the upside that they produce fewer articles, but is depressing from a free speech advocate’s point of view.
In general, I find the case of Reality Winner stranger than fiction.
With numerous congressional investigations underway and a Special Counsel appointed to determine ‘Russian’ attempts (& Trump campaign ‘collusion’) to undermine U.S. elections … one can only wonder a.) why the IC assessment published by the TI 6/05/17, seemingly so pertinent to those investigations, was classified Top Secret to begin with and b.) who the fuck is in charge around here.
My preliminary conclusions suggests a Kebler Elf, through the process known as ‘derivative classification’, must have determined this information Top Secret.
*One can only hope The Intercept, including Mr. Greenwald, can moderate comments better than that.
“The March 24, 1933 issue of The Daily Express of London described how Jewish leaders, in combination with powerful international Jewish financial interests, had launched a boycott of Germany for the express purpose of crippling her already precarious economy in the hope of bringing down the new Hitler regime. ” http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=25843
https://archive.org/details/TheJewishDeclarationOfWarOnGermanyTheEconomicBoycottOf1933
•B•D•S•
Great reporting—-I hope someone will primary Cardin—we need to get these stooges out. Its clear these people never read the bill or at the very least had a staffer read the bill before supporting the bill. I guess these Congress people are owned by AIPAC. Anyone who supports what is happening to the Palestinians is a war criminal.
Agreed! It seems like he is not at all embarrassed by the fact he got the facts of the Bill wrong. Is the sell out of the Israel issue to AIPAC so accepted that they dont even pretend to care if they are caught out in their incompetence?
I boycott many businesses and places due to policies I find repugnant.
I haven’t used my favorite face products for 8 years, after finding they supported Israel’s brutal occupation and the war ON Gaza..Cast Lead.
I’ve never wanted ‘Dead Sea’ products or anything from Israel.
I didn’t go to Phoenix to shop, watch a baseball game or fly thru their airport because of their highly racist sheriff, Arpaio.
I have a right to speak with my bit of cash to say NO.
I have a right to share my opinions with other’s.
I have a right to say why I don’t prefer Starbucks.
I knew Israel would ultimately go too far and they have.
Israel will die in the court of public opinion.
Republican’s want to scream about a nanny state…what the hell is this bill, but an extreme version of that. Ahhhh ..hate this!
Jewish Voices for Peace support BDS..& I thing there is still the forerunner, BIG (Boycott Israeli Goods) out there.
Who ever posted “Orwell was right, but got the year wrong” …so true.
It’s a police state. Period.
Isn’t this NAZI
Everyone who supports this bill supports Israeli apartheid and genocide. What’s the difference between Israeli and South African apartheid? Many South Africans who lived under it in S.A. say Israel is WAY worse.
I was a little surprised to see the Congesswoman where I live part time and vote, was on the list of co-sponsors of the bill.
Caterpillar has recently moved some decent jobs here. They have been on divestment lists long before BDS was formed. I can’t recall the previous groups, but I know that the largest Presbyterian group voted years ago to divest in companies that were advancing the inhumane destruction of Palestine.
They weren’t alone, I think other religious denominations have as well.
I know that they have been pressured against formal divestment agreements.
Point is, check the BDS list and see if any groups are employers in your district, combine that with AIPAC influence..and you see the pressure that needs to be arranged to fight this.
Btw…Caterpillar is doing quite well, anyway, as are most on the lists, so what is the problem …maybe valid discussions of the legitimacy of Israeli growing occupation.
Rachel Corrie was killed by an IDF soldier running a caterpillar bulldozer.
Thank you again for information we need to know. I have written all 3 of my congressmen and sent out the article to several people.
“little” Marco time and time again has proven he is against the rights of individuals. We have got to get rid of this guy. Unfortunately Graham looks like the leading contender. Just what we need daughter of a drug kingpin in congress.
Boycotts are what America is made of!!! Our government is getting extremely F ¥€ ked Up!!!
Mr Grim on Democracy Now….. excellent discussion with other opinions too…
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/7/21/criminalizing_critics_of_israel_congress_considers
This is almost unimaginable, especially in this nation where the idea of being able to boycott is, for all intents and purposes, enshrined in our Constitution and our Bill of Rights.
How is it possible that anyone, any entity, or our government, can interfere with our desire to not want to own, use, or agree with something ??
If passed, this will surely be the beginning of the end of freedom in America.
Reading through these comments gives me hope for our country.
One small correction Mel – if this passes it will not be the “beginning of the end of freedom in America.” Depending upon how deep the rabbit hole one has gone the beginning was either 9/11, the JFK assassination, Pearl Harbor, the Federal Reserve, or even earlier. This fiasco of a bill is one of the final nails in the coffin.
It’s not all that surprising that the rising fascism in this country and the ongoing fascism in Israel should begin to mesh. Israel is a rogue state. the U.S. is a rogue superpower. The Israeli government is a strong ally of America’s drive for global hegemonic domination. And the U.S. supports Israel’s plans for Eretz Israel. Neither nation supports political dissent, and increasingly, neither nation is allowing political dissent.
“He is Benito Mussolini. Certified Genius. Ruler of men..”
-Atheist n’ Chief
“He..”??
Two shrewd for one w/ sausage..
More like, ‘Bonita Mussolini’
Are you implying a twin or a psychosis of sorts…..;)
So at the market if I bypass oranges or dates grown in Israel and instead purchase those grown by American farmers or even those from somewhere else, will I be automatically picked up by the Thought Police? The implications of this bill are deeply disturbing. Indeed, I go out of my way to avoid any and ALL products produced in Israel, but that is my choice. I guess if the congress and the clowns in gowns can force me to purchase insurance from the cartel or punish me, this is hardly a stretch. Tired of government yet???
Sean “spicey” Spicer resigns.
I guess, Jewish activists from around the globe will not be allowed to enter Israel….. supposedly a haven for all Jewish people!!!
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Exclusive-Israel-set-to-deny-entry-to-radical-BDS-activists-500280
I guess, those in the USA will not have to worry about that as they will be in jail already!!
The true rulers of the US, Israel and Saudi Arabia, snap their fingers and US leaders jump to attention.
This is beyond disgusting.
I think you’ll find in the UK this attempt was successful defeated by the courts
The ACLU has undercut it’s own mission by failing to wage war against repressive ballot access laws which ensure a dictatorship of the two-party duopoly.
The ACLU is very familiar with the US Supreme Court’s observation that, when the right to vote effectively is denied, all other rights become meaningless. I have no other explanation for the ACLU’s abysmal failure to sue crony local and state election boards and attack unconstitutional ballot access laws besides the fact that the ACLU is tethered to its donor base, which overlaps significantly with the establishment wing of the Democratic Party.
Think about it- both Greens and Libertarians are staunch opponents of this bill, and even when being reflexively silenced in MSM and denied ballot access in the vast majority of races, still command over 10% of the support of the electorate.
#1
Someone has informed me:
Last year, the U.K. government announced it would be illegal for “local [city] councils, public bodies, and even some university student unions … to refuse to buy goods and services from companies involved in the arms trade, fossil fuels, tobacco products, or Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank.”
#2
Why doesn’t NPR and C-SPAN make news about this subject? I sent an inquiry to NPR-KERA but did not get a response. I searched C-SPAN and did not see anything although it is in its index of bills.
Perhaps you might include some evidence that corroborates what “someone” has informed you.
That might help.
No, Jews don’t control America. Go back to sleep.
Whats a more likely explanation for what is happening….either a handful of Jews (they make up less that 2% of US population ) somehow pulled the wool over countless smart powerful politicians for decades. Making them totally blind to eveything they believe in and in unexplainable fashion get them to cater to thr ever need of one of the smallest minorities in terms of population. Or maybe its is because these people realize the truth is on the Israelis side and that the Palestinian are not interested in peace. Which is clearly evident from the numerous offers they have rejected over the years. They also realize the importance of supporting the only democracy in the middle east and the strategic importance of Israel to the US. Even the champion of the left President Obama signed an unprecedented aide package to Israel before he left office. I meam come on people do you really think there is some sort of crazy conspiracy going on that the jews are running the government. If you think that is true you have to open your eyes to the truth of what is going on in Israel study the history of the country and you will also see the truth.
They all want to live under sharia law, is their choice? Yes, Palestinians may be badly off but they are still ahead of the Yemenis.
And all this has to do with a bill that crushes constitutionally-protected speech and expression — what, exactly?
The point is that the people who wrote, signed and support the bill might have a better idea of its purpose than you. If they are putting their reputation on the line by doing so maybe they had a good reason for it. Maybe you should try to find out what it is before you denounce it. Also they have a better understanding of the constitution and US law than you so are you sure it “crushes constitutionality”.
Or maybe AIPAC won’t make political donations (bribes) to politicians unless they sign a pledge saying they will support Israel and then back it up whenever a bill is presented (like this one written by AIPAC) in Israel’s interest. Our politicians have turned government into a transparent pay-to-play mafia. Israel is one of the two big foreign players (Saudi Arabia, but probably not RUSSIA!!!)
So what your saying is that some how the jews who make up less than 2% of the US population have totally derailed all government by having a majority of congress in their pocket because of how much money they give them. Your saying Chuck Schumer one of the most powerful people in the country is subservient to AIPAC because he needs more money? He really cant find the money any other way than giving AIPAC whatever they want? That doesn’t sound very likely either.
Not much information available on this bill, afaict. No updates, no clarifications … no counter accusations, Glenn?
Obviously, they’re going to have to make enforcement of this bill ‘retro-active’ if they really want to scrub the U.S. marketplace clean of BDS information/activism … or provide some kind of relief through retroactive immunity (think 09 FISA amendments act) *provision(s).
*Deny everything
Admit to nothing
Make counter accusations
Brilliant idea. Not to consider all of that time well spent. Gotta fill those long gruelling Senate work schedules with something right?
Next can we mandate a parade every time the US/coalition forces commit a war crime? Or we could force people to buy products from the various puppet dictators we have installed throughout the middle East and northern africa.
We The People must forcefully reject this Israel Exception to the First Amendment. Gullible, incurious Americans might fall for this due to years of indoctrination via disingenuous politicians and govt-aligned press.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org
Hate to break it to you, but the majority of “We The People” got our views from a Book over 3,400 years old (if you go by when it started being written). It’s called the Bible. Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.
What this American knows is that the Bible is the final authority regarding Israel – and her enemies.
What to say that has not already been said. This is another step toward silencing the people and should be vehemently opposed.
Maybe someone else has said this: On the audio interview, Ben Cardin was not aware of the penalties involved ? Unbelievable. How is that possible? BS from Cardin ?
Super report, thank you.
What is weird in such activity is that protecting Israel’s interests doesn’t mean that it has to be above criticism. On the contrary, it’s better for Israel’s long term survival to get criticism when it violates human dignity. Just like Germany and South Africa, Israel will dissolve if it continues on this destructive path.
Glenn! Could you or one of the Intercept staff interview James Petras re: Israel’s influence on US politics?
For anyone who cares about this issue area, please take a look at my book, “Congress and the Shaping of the Middle East,” published by Seven Stories Press. Have your local library pick up a copy. The book is based on extensive interviews with congressional staffers, speaking off the record, as well as key figures at nearly all the DC lobby shops. It covers everything, from what members of Congress have to do to get elected and re-elected, to what governs their behavior in this issue area from the moment they take office.
I live in South Carolina and mine was the first state to pass an anti-BDS law. I want to say this: I declared as a third party candidate against incumbent Jeff Duncan (Tea Party Republican, 3rd District), a member of the Congressional Israel American Caucus. I certainly support the ACLU on this and oppose this bill, which violates our 1st Amendment (which doesn’t mean much). I get no press and no real interviews, which means I get no funds to get the counter-message out. I actually reflect the majority; 80% of Americans oppose our financial and military support of Israel, with 80% of American Jews feeling the same way. It really is time candidates like me have a chance to go to Congress and show the world something different. Go see for yourself, Glenn, at https://daveforcongress.org
Get in touch with Jimmy Dore. He’s a Bernie Lefty. Don’t know if that fits your politics, but he does interviews with third party or primary challengers.
example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s2INSZnSA0
I’m curious why you volunteered for Vietnam. Not judging, just curious as to your reasonings/motivations. No need to answer if you don’t feel like it.
Best of Luck
:)
The blatant anti-americanism of this bill will one day come to be seen. Its sponsors and signatories will pay a political price. I’ve long thought Israel is bad for the Jews: specifically, those poor souls that have lived quietly in the US, France, Britain and would like to stay.
I’ve been teetering on the edge for a long time now, but at this point I’ve concluded that I no longer care about what happens to Israel. The Jewish Mafia is a real thing (Meyer Lanski, remember?)
It really seems to me that Israel is going to repeat, once again for the zillionth time, being so paranoid about it’s relationship with its neighbors (or so smug in its belief that they are God’s chosen) that they are about to be destroyed — again. Not my problem. It was Israel’s choice to make the Arabs into second class citizens and steal from them. When the Arabs (Palestinians) rise up, since they’ve nothing else to lose, I’ll not take sides save to see Israel gone and no longer a predominant force in determination of American Foreign Policy.
OH, Colleen, are you going to put me in Jail for 20 years now? (If you haven’t a clue, check out co-sponsors of HR1697)
Oh please. Israel is hardly the Jewish Mafia. It’s the Israeli Mafia, and they give not a shit about diaspora Jews, and how all their politicking affects diaspora Jews. The only thing Israel gives a shit about is Israel, and even then not very well.
And Israel has nukes. They aren’t going anywhere, as long as they have the US Congress.
And what’s wrong with a little Jewish Mafia? I like all kinds of Mafias. I like the Chinese Mafia, the Russian Mafia, the Mafia Mafia (those damn Italians). I like them on TV.
Point is, Israel sucks. That’s my point.
Nukes don’t exist. It’s fear porn in order to psychologically control people and to scare smaller countries. If nukes were real then having long-range bombers would be pointless.
So,….it’s pointless for the US to have long range bombers? Your bus has left the station…
Yes, that’s right – it defeats the purpose. Nukes and EMPs are a fairy tale. CERN is their attempt to create such a weapon by using a Large Hadron Collider, disguising it behind the cover story about attempting to create a black hole.
Nevertheless, the prospect of a major war in which missiles are flying back and forth on rockets isn’t something to be taken lightly. In the event of such an attack, critical infrastructure (dams, water reservoirs, power plants, etc.), military installations and major cities would be primary targets. While you wouldn’t see an entire city be obliterated in one shot, a barrage of missiles reigning down would do significant damage.
I mean, do people ever ask themselves WHY israel is there? Because the Israelites were there before the Palestinians according to a 3000 year old text? In that case why don’t we track down all Canaanite descendents and forcibly remove the Jewish population as the west did with the Palestinians to stick them there. I wonder how Israel would react to a foreign power shoving them out of the way and placing a population of people who don’t speak their language and have a vastly different culture. And then arm them to the teeth.
Great way to artificially create a permanent demand in the arms trade. Sounds awfully close to the legal definition of a ‘racket’. How odd.
This bill is the most shameful grandstanding I have ever seen. They know perfectly well it will be struck down as unconstitutional. Not one person who votes for it should be any part of any level of government.
But let’s pause for just one moment.
AIPAC is not “Israel.” AIPAC is here.
Likud is not (yet?) “Israel,” though it is coming very close to being Israel, thanks in no small part to the actions of certain persons in the United States.
Ask Uri Avnery or Neve Gordon what they think of this lovely bill. Ask them what they think of AIPAC’s contribution to the crisis in Palestine.
If Israelis like them are ever-more rare, all the more reason to acknowledge them. Quick.
I didn’t see any reference to Sheldon Adelson in the piece. He is the primary funder and force within AIPAC and certainly should be given a good deal of the “credit” for this Bill.
It’s odd that those persecuted by the Nazis in the last century have become the Nazis in this century. What the Israelis have done in the Palestinian homeland is nothing short of occupying a sovereign nation, creating apartheid while stealing and repopulating the stolen property, and if permitted, genocide!
The Warsaw ghetto at least had water, was not located in the desert, and had electricity for more than 2 hours a day. Understand, the Israelis kill at will and without reprisal. Understand that water and electricity are necessities of life in this climate. And understand that the Israelis know, full well, the results of what they have been doing.
Fascism has arrived in America. And it is wrapped in a yamaca and carrying a menorah.
Apparently Mahmoud Abbas asked the Israelis to do this so that he could use it as leverage against Hamas.
In the meantime, here is someone from the Israeli Power Authority being questioned by Haaretz about the morality of such an action. Sadly, the gist of his reply is that his job is merely to keep the electricity running; OR NOT in this case as he is merely following orders from the Israeli security cabinet.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.797116
“Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” … to me that says that the Declaration of Independence considered them roughly equal. When someone takes another person’s Life, it is considered murder and has a particular punishment. So, why not make it when someone takes another person’s Liberty, it would result in a roughly equal penalty?
Wouldn’t it be sweet if the law was enacted, then struck down by SCOTUS. And when that happened, the X senators and Y representatives who voted for the law would get put on trial for interfering with the Liberty of every American citizen. It would be equivalent of being trialed for mass murder — with a sentence of death if they were found guilty.
Ok… perhaps it would not be equivalent of murder because it is only temporary. So make it equivalent of attempted murder. Attempted murder of the entire American population sounds like an attempted terrorist act to me. So, they would be prosecuted as terrorists — which, by the way, they are.
I think that might give pause to attempts to make these laws. Sure… go ahead. Make the law. But if the law is found unconstitutional, you life is forfeit. Do you really want to sign that law now buddy?
I realize that things “said” in congress have immunity. But does it cover “acts”?
Using your idea, I’d give it about a generation and a half before our government underwent a total authoritarian takeover, to include the execution of all governing officials from the opposition party.
Memo to Schumer – If your loyalties lie with Israel, you’re free to leave the States; just surrender your US citizenship at the border. No man can serve two masters.
You have a choice along with your friends, AIPAC, WINEP, et. al. and all the other Israel firsters in Congress. You love Israel so much, go there and stay there. Otherwise your pursuit of a greater Israel will end this way – demographic trends mean that Israel can’t have it all –
It can’t be a Jewish state, a democratic state, and a state in control of its whole historical land.
It can only have two of its objectives at a time.
Israel can be Jewish and territorial — but not democratic.
Or it can be democratic and territorial — but not Jewish.
Or finally, it can be Jewish and democratic — but not territorial.
A person can love both father & mother, both sister & brother, both aunt & uncle, both niece & nephew, both grandma & grandpa.
Yea? So? You’re not comprehending – you have proven the point beautifully. No one hates like a rabid, messianic, racist jew. But well done, the Palestinians send their thanks and ask that you keep up the good work.
Leveraging the power of the US to protect their real country. Short-sighted stupidity.
Orwell was right. He just got the date wrong.
This proposed law is chilling and totalitarian. It’s un-American. In fact, it is anti-American.
This outrageous piece of Israel-approved legislation seeks to limit Free Speech among Americans while it protects Zionist aggression and malfeasance. This proposed law is a conspiracy against Americans of conscience.
Draconian laws of this kind also make a mockery of the dishonest myth that Americans and Israelis share “common values” and are somehow united via some kind of nebulous bond. Boloney. The ‘special bond’ meme is a special sort of lie. It’s pufd Zionist spin.
Israel is interested in growing Jewish power and enlarging Israel’s political footprint. It’s that simple. American prestige, wealth and power is what Israel needs for this purpose. In return, we non-Jewish Americans get nothing besides a tarnished reputation.
The Zionist entity’s relationship to America is that of a parasite to host. Incredibly, Israel now dominates the host, making the Jewish State the world’s foremost superpower.
Zionist’s use Americans as pawns.
I’m an ardent supporter of Israel and support states and the federal government refusing business to BDS organizations, but i think private people have right to spend their money and advocate how to spend their money freely. There is too much extremism on both sides; even in defense of decency and religious freedom. There has to be a middle ground.
certain jews and masons are working together to stop illegal non-consumption of israeli goods and services
so i’m waiting for the list of required purchases before i go shopping again
‘Waiting’ to shop is a form of boycott and is therefore a felony under the proposed legislation. My advice is to go shopping immediately and buy everything you see until you are broke. Being broke is a legitimate excuse for not buying Israeli products.
That’s bloody brilliant…even for you!
:D
What do you mean, even for him?
He is Benito Mussolini. Certified Genius. Ruler of men and women. Fascist extraordinaire. The one and only.
:D
AIC…
That wasn’t worded well…should have read…he outdid himself!!!
:D
You forgot, he’s also;
Lord of the seven kingdoms, 2nd of his name, King of the Andals, protector of the realm.
“Being broke is a legitimate excuse for not buying Israeli products”
love it
I think what AIPAC did with this bill, is make BDS more popular.
I couldn’t agree more.
BDS is group punishment.
“BDS is group punishment.” a/k/a collective punishment
So are the harsh, often inhumane sanctions imposed upon various countries at the behest of the US. For example, sanctions were directly responsible for killing 500,000 infants/children in Iraq in the decade prior to the 2003 invasion/occupation. FYI: There is not one success story of sanctions achieving the purported goal, e.g., regime change from within.
Right? The concept and supposed goal of sanctions is absurd on its face. “Hey we want people to fight back against their increasingly tyrannical government. Let’s starve them, deprive them of medicine, and kill off their joba so that they are even more helpless and dependent on that tyrannical government.
If the state hands this down to the proletariat, a socialist shouldn’t have a problem with it.
Is your last name Bannon? Reading your free re-educating comments makes me pity Donald Trump. If he has you in his ear all the time… I mean its no wonder.
well maybe youre more like one of those covert agents that Glenn talked about.
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
you got a problem with someone here? oh whatever it is, I’m going to post something from Jacques Ellul ( it just might be a repost)
“Propaganda cannot be satisfied with partial successes for it does not tolerate discussion; by its very nature it excludes contradiction and discussion. As long as a noticeable or expressed tension or conflict remains , propaganda cannot be said to have accomplished its aim. It must produce quasi-unamity and the opposing faction must become neglible, or in any case cease to be vocal. Extreme propaganda must win over the advesary.”
Thats so you and so often the majority of the rapid fire posts.
So discussion, genuine discussion is the antedote to the extreme propaganda that you will reliably walk into when you step into in one of these commenting places.
The Intercepted podcast btw is really nice because you get to hear the conversations without the trolling. I had no idea how much the negativity of the commenting section affected my impression of the people who work here.
Watching how people interact with your posts reminds me of how those who voted for Obama allowed themselves to be distracted away from discussing important issues that might have had a positive effect overall on the Obama adminstration to instead point and laugh at the goofy alternate reality spewing conservatives that would show up. And so many Trump supporting comments are pointing and laughing at the stories about Russia and Trump, they arent helping Trump keep his promises either. So really who ends up looking like the idiot
just things you notice.
Congress has been a wholly owned subsidiary of Likud International for quite some time now.
Too bad about the Untermenschen in Gaza and the Collateral Damage Fodder in Aleppo, Mosul, Yemen…….
I didn’t realize Israel had so much influence over our government that they could get bipartisan support for a bill that by any realistic measure is a heinous violation of our country’s first amendment. What the fuck is going on?
Well, Patrick, it’s true .. Israel’s had much influence over our gov’t. since the 1960’s, starting with the Administration of Lyndon B. Johnson.
A bill supporting criminally outlawing boycott campaigns against Israel is, indeed, a heinous violation of our nation’s First Amendment.
Can anyone find a resource where I can see the list of 43 Senators (and however many hundreds of Representatives) who have expressed support for the bill?
Its linked in the article, but here you go:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/720/cosponsors
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1697/cosponsors?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22Israel+Anti-Boycott+act%22%5D%7D&r=2
From WAY down in the comments:
Uncle Bob
July 19 2017, 11:43 a.m.
The full list of co-sponsors
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/720/cosponsors?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22Israel+Anti-Boycott+act%22%5D%7D&r=1
Reply
Uncle Bob Uncle Bob
July 19 2017, 11:48 a.m.
Here’s the identical bill form the House of Representatives
H.R. 1697
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1697/related-bills
With the full list of 237 co-sponsors
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1697/cosponsors
Reply
Thank you for reposting!
Active opposition to this needs to be an issue in 2018…after as much support can be raised to fight this now.
BDS
Free Gaza Now Free Palestine
AIPAC can’t help themselves from throwing gas on flames of anti semitism.
Who is it that doesn’t understand our culture??
What idiots…Jews and Israel are separate, no matter what older people say.
No surprise at all that Ben “I occupy space” Cardin wouldn’t even know the contents of his own damn bill. The only time that Cardin exerts himself at all is when he can stoke up hostilities in the Middle East. Otherwise he’s a nonentity, even for a Dem.
You should’ve asked Cardin how he represents the interests of **Marylanders** in any meaningful sense. I’ll bet that would’ve garnered 2-3 minutes of befuddlement too….
“As in the Senate, AIPAC has assembled an impressive ideological diversity among supporters”
As a good friend of mine once pointed about Israel’s untoward influence in American politics, it’s “Heads I win tails you lose”. Not a single mainstream media outlet is running this very important story. I wonder why.
Once the bill is law will it be in violation of that law to organize a protest against that law?
That is, not a protest in support of BDS itself, but against the legislation that limits our rights?
One would hope the answer is: “of course not!”; but, these days expect the unexpected.
Come on guys – this is what your judeo-christian ‘culture’ is all about. The judeo-christians have god given rights to rob and kill whoever they want. This is the true european, american and jew spirit.
Allah is in on in too: convert or die, your choice.
That’s a typical comment. Judeo-christians first deny that they are thieves and murderers and when that fails, they point at other – alleged – criminals as if their own judeo-christian crimes were justified because “everybody does it!”.
Where exactly did he deny anything? Reread his sentence. It is all inclusive. What’s bad for any of them to do is being done by them all and that makes them all bad.
Right, he didn’t deny it. He just went to the second part of the ‘argument’ – “everybody does it!”. Or more accurately, he pointed the finger at someone else – tried to change the subject – etc. You can look at other posts from Roch for more ‘context’.
Also, I’m not familiar with muslim propaganda but I know quite well how the judeo-christian fascists rape the whole world in the name of “freedom”.
Selfdefence? Or you just are blessed to live in a good neighborhood?
How dare they tell me as a person, a Jewish person at that tell me who to boycott or not. I find the israeli treatment of the Palestinians and other non-Jewish groups completely unethical, inhuman and wicked and I shall never support it.
Maybe its naive but I never thought I’d see this country considering a law like this.
There have been laws criminalizing political beliefs many times in US history. It’s unusual now, but the modern application of First Amendment free speech doctrines in only ~60 years old.
That’s not really true – the censors have, of course, been worse at some points in history, but the courts and judicial review have been of relevance almost from the beginning. They may have laid down on the job where the Sedition Act was concerned, but it was certainly a relevant route of attack even then until Jefferson’s election made it moot. They failed with the Comstock Act, but even so, AFAIR that bill was limited to censorship in the *postal* system specifically due to constitutional concerns — prompting Lysander Spooner’s bold effort to break that censorship monopoly, which succeeded for others even if not for himself. It should also be remembered that while the First Amendment originally was not applied to states (not until the 13-15th amendments after the civil war gave federal government broad authority to defend citizens’ rights) the states all had their own free speech constitutions, which they had enforced with widely varying degrees of honesty and effectiveness since British colonial times.
I thought the exact same thing when the “Patriot Act” first passed.
..and when “enhanced interrogation” was sold as policy
..and when “retroactive immunity” was granted to the Telcom companies who broke the laws in concert with government agencies.
..and drone assasinations, renditions, secret evidence, guantanamo, wholesale domestic spying, politically motivated persecution of leakers who acted to protect the constitution that they were sworn to uphold against the very abuses they reported.
..but these days – I’m much rather surprised that laws like this took so long.
Well said. That list would take hours to complete but I’ll tack on ‘the war on drugs’ seeing as it’s probably the single most costly policy failure in human history and that’s not counting the millions of families torn apart to incarcerate nonviolent offenders and potentially millions more that went into the system as potentially productive members of society and came out damaged and on the path to being career criminals.
This is small potatoes compared to the wholesale spying on Americans by the government and corporations.
Not only that, but it’s rather less than Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or the Japanese internment which preceded it, and the McCarthyism which soon followed.
Ya see, this is an example of one of the things they’re trying to slip past us when the media diverts our attention with all the daily Trumpish mind candy..This bill has been around since March. I wonder what we’ll learn about 4 months from now? Like what are they hatching now?
I called in on my so- called Democrat senator, “I am calling in because the ACLU is warning me you want to take away Americans free speech if there is a boycott”
“Only if the boycott is internationally led”.
So I called back later, using the language of the bill, “I am calling in to ‘request’ that the Senator join the ‘internationally led’ boycotts on Israel, I am calling in ‘support of’, the ‘internationally led’ boycotts on Israel.
Aaron Mate’ The Real News Network
https://youtu.be/1i8i9Ra1NyE
I’m back to thank these authors for their contribution in this article. You should know that I’ve seen it resent from every direction, and have reposted it repeatedly myself – as a link. You have created quite a stir, and it’s the basis for a lot of activism.
My own concern is with Sen. Wyden, since he mis-represents me; I’m trying to organize demonstrations about it at his offices, via the Pacific Green Party, but there are other orgs interested. He’s small potatoes on this bill, but his support is especially egregious (but typical, in my experience. He’s slimy.)
Hopefully there’s similar pressure on all the rest.
I believe Wyden’s father was an Israeli Intelligence asset, so not surprising that the torch was passed on so he could take it and burn down the Constitution.
Israel will not stop trying to control the actions of the world and they will fail – spectacularly.
When you’ve been occupying another people for 60+ years, confiscating more and more of their land and denying them citizenship while providing it to your own settlers, then sanctions, the BDS movement, isolation, and delegitimization is what you get.
BDS is growing here in the US no matter what apartheid Israel tried to pull. Anything with a barcode that begins 729 is illegal settler squatter goods. Destroy them financially, call it an occupation ‘price tag’.
Whether one agrees with the goals of BDS or not, the fact remains that boycotts are a form of speech, a classic tool of peaceful political expression.
To fight BDS just divest and resist. Divest and resist.
Every time Israel offers to end the occupation, the Palestinians say “No!”
Even Prince Bandar bin Sultan of Saudi Arabia (certainly not a Zionist) said that Arafat’s refusal to accept the January 2001 offer was a crime. Thousands of people would die because of Arafat’s decision & not one of those deaths could be justified.
As Clinton later wrote in his memoir:
It was historic: an Israeli government had said that to get peace, there would be a Palestinian state in roughly 97 percent of the West Bank, counting the [land] swap, and all of Gaza, where Israel also had settlements. The ball was in Arafat’s court.
But Arafat would not, or could not, bring an end to the conflict. “I still didn’t believe Arafat would make such a colossal mistake,” Clinton wrote. “The deal was so good I couldn’t believe anyone would be foolish enough to let it go.” But the moment slipped away. “Arafat never said no; he just couldn’t bring himself to say yes.”
Off topic and full of nonsense. It was Amos Malka, head of Israeli military intelligence, who said that “we offered Arafat everything but he refused” was deliberate Israeli misinformation……
While an agreement at Camp David was never going to happen, those talks laid the groundwork for further talks. Those took place several months later at Taba, and it was Barak who canceled them when it appeared that Arafat was prepared to sign.
There were those who understood that Barak only went to those talks because he was facing Sharon in an election, and that he had no real intention of signing a peace treaty with Arafat. t was Barak who withdrew his negotiators in order to prevent a peace treaty. He then constructed the myth of The Generous Offer.
The Palestinians formally recognized both the reality of the state of Israel and “its right to live in peace and security” as per the September 9, 1993 letter from Chairman Arafat to Prime Minister Rabin and the subsequent double amendment of the PLO’s Charter in 1996 and 1999.
What they cannot be expected to do is to renege on their past, deny their identity, and give up on what they believe is their history. They cannot be expected to become Zionists. They deserve their own state just like Israel, nothing less. Until then it is fully fitting that they and the rest of the world ignore you.
Why would Barak go to the talks because he was facing Sharon in an election?
Sharon was hard line. If you’re facing a hard liner you want to appear to be tough, not make concessions.
Why would Barak go to the talks because he was facing Sharon in an election? – don’t know, contact him and rant at him for the answer.
-Sharon was hard line – yea, so?
If you’re facing a hard liner you want to appear to be tough, not make concessions – don’t know, why don’t you Google it.
Jack Green is a complete Hasbara Troll that continually makes up stuff that did not happen or represents anything but reality, which is why many of us rarely give him the opportunity to further comment.
Total Horseshit
@Richard Vajs
Here’s my source:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/03/24/the-prince-3
Every time there is an article about right wing Israel’s overreach, this stupid, misinformed argument pops up.
Jews lived for centuries in Hebron & Gaza. In 1929, Hebron & Gaza were ethnically cleansed of their Jews. In 1948, the West Bank & East Jerusalem were ethnically cleansed of their Jews. Why is it illegal for Jews to rebuild their homes in Hebron, Gaza, the West Bank & East Jerusalem?
God love you Jack. Doing what Zionists do best: telling lies, followed by stealing.
Here’s my source for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from East Jerusalem:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank
Nah, that must have been your Zionism causing you to hallucinate again, because your supposed “source for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from East Jerusalem” doesn’t even mention ethnic cleansing once.
Sir, please..Chill out!
The current discussion about the current bill in question entails concerns about a possible law against expressing ones political opinions towards another country.
Jack there were some typos in your rant: Palestinians lived for centuries in Hebron & Gaza. To the present day Palestinians have been beaten, harassed, tortured, bombed, run over, shot, raided, kicked and humiliated, etc. in Hebron & Gaza where israel is attempting to ethnically cleanse them. In 1948, the West Bank & East Jerusalem, israel again tried to ethnically cleanse Palestine. Why is it illegal for Palestinians to rebuild their homes in Hebron, Gaza, the West Bank & East Jerusalem?
So, perhaps, in your twisted little mind, it is only israelis who can be victimized; after all, you will readily tell us, remember the Holocaust! Never again! Oh, that means ‘never again’ to israelis; but such crimes against others, especially Palestinians, are just fine.
Oh I get it now; Palestinians only have those rights which do not conflict with the “right” that Israeli Jews had to steal most of their land.
You insist on perpetuating the hasbara to be able to live with the injustice.
This is delusional Zionist nonsense.
This is delusional Zionist nonsense.
Because a belligerent occupying power purporting to be the nation-state of all the world’s Jews has been belligerently occupying Palestine for decades, and because there isn’t a single Jew alive today who is centuries old and has “lived for centuries” anywhere.
Boycott worked in Montgomery, and it worked in south Africa. It will work in Israel.
Not only did the boycott fail in Iraq,
but 575,000 Iraqi children died because of the sanctions.
And the 500 children slaughtered in Gaza.
“… a study published by the United Nations showed “that the ratio of civilian to combatant deaths in Gaza was by far the lowest in any asymmetric conflict in the history of warfare.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio
Israel is not our ally. It is either a parasite or an overlord. Elected US politicians? Israeli boot lickers.
So why is our embassy still in Tel Aviv instead of in Jerusalem?
Because trump can’t even get that right. If that’s your best shot at Davejoe’s comment, it was a swing and a miss.
Not a single country around the world has recognized that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, including the United States. And the reason that nobody recognizes that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel is because under the partition plan, Resolution 181, the issue of Jerusalem was one that was to be decided in the future and to be internationalized.
The United States’s position has always been—and not just the United States, every country around the world—that the status of Jerusalem is one that will be decided bilaterally between the two sides and that neither side can impose their own vision for Jerusalem. And so, this is why the United States has never moved its embassy to Jerusalem and why Tel Aviv is the capital.
If Israel really controlled the US, the US would have moved its embassy to Jerusalem no matter how good your arguments.
According to UN Resolution 181 (partition), after 10 years, there was to be a referendum in Jerusalem. Because the majority were Jews, Jerusalem would have become part of Israel.
If the zios didn’t really control the US, the Jerusalem Embassy Act wouldn’t have been passed and Zionism swilling retards wouldn’t be flooding the Internets with mindless gobbledygook about Jerusalem no matter how many still functioning brain cells they have.
Nah, the mindless Zionist gobbledygook you posted above is only according to you.
I wonder why the media isn’t covering this story. I guess they don’t want to be accused of a journalistic pogrom or some such.
Well not the corporate media, but I believe Bill Moyers picked this one up.
No surprise when looking at the toadies sponsoring this bill.
Carden does not have an original thought in his head, completely scripted by AIPAC. Tragic but that is what we have through out congress and the admin.
well.
This is one law I just might go out of my way to violate.
Israel, like any other nation, or group, or tribe, or individual, is not immune from criticism.
This is almost as bad as making it illegal to criticize our own gooberment…which is likely not far behind.
Fie!
Let’s not forget how violently the Jewish Defense League responded to Americans (including American Jews) protesting AIPAC.
https://youtu.be/zFUNEc20iLg
I suppose this is just a logical step in the acceleration of the religious war between the Muslims and the Jews, with the full-throated support of the American Messianic Jews in Congress. (They call themselves Christians, but since they ignore the teachings of the Christ, and consider his torture and murder as salvation for themselves, they can hardly be called followers of Jesus.)
Free speech? Not in Zion!
I frequently envy the can of worms Brazil has opened, by at least trying to eliminate its government corruption, over this fire-sale legalized bribery the U.S. has institutionalized.
On anything MIC, Israel or foreign wars the Democrats are now Republicans and vice versa. What does it say when elected leaders almost unanimously fear losing Israel and AIPAC favor – more than any blowback from ending freedom of speech in OUR country without a constitutional amendment?
Piss on politicians parsing their oath of office for bribes or any foreign government.
Long live BDS!
Right on. This whole thing is so wrong on so many levels.
@nfjtakfa
The goal of BDS is getting rid of the world’s only majority-Jewish state.
Is that your goal, too?
The fuck?
“The real aim of BDS is to bring down the State of Israel.”
AliAbunimah, BDS activist;
the editor of the AI-Akhbar English paper and website said, “Finkelstein rightly asks whether the real aim of BDS is to bring down the State of Israel. Here, I agree with him that it is. That should be stated as an unambiguous goal. There should not be any equivocation on the subject.
Oh! Rando calling themselves a ‘BDS activist’ states that his goal is to bring down Israel. Guess that settles that since as we all know all activist brain synapses are inseparably linked to all other activists of any given issue and therefore share the same goals and intentions.
But shucks, I could have sworn I decided to boycott in response to the lack of any international consequences for Israel’s flagrant disregard for the Geneva conventions as they indiscriminately slaughtered thousands of Palestinians in Gaza and laid waste to hospitals, schools, and Gazas only power plant.
Silly me. Thanks for setting the record straight.
Boycotts are legal, they are protected by our First Amendment right to free speech and freedom of expression, and they can be targeted at department stores with liberal policies, as well as at companies that profit from the violation of human rights and the desecration of indigenous lands, from Standing Rock to Palestine. We cannot allow Zionists, be they Democrats or Republicans, to abrogate our constitutional rights, so as to further shield Israel from accountability.
Boycott, Divest, Sanction Israel. Hit them hard. Make it hurt. Call it “illegal settler squatter price tag”.
To boycott Israeli goods, just don’t buy anything if the barcode begins with 729….
New app makes boycotting West Bank settlements a touch easier
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/new-app-makes-boycotting-west-bank-settlements-a-touch-easier-1.315635
Boycott, Divest, Sanction Israel. Hit them hard. Make it hurt. Call it “illegal settler squatter price tag”.
To boycott Israeli goods, just don’t buy anything if the barcode begins with 729….
In the case of BDS the ultimate goal is to destroy the Jewish state.”
No, it’s not. The goal is to end the oppression of israel that it inflicts on the Palestinians.
New app makes boycotting West Bank settlements a touch easier
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/new-app-makes-boycotting-west-bank-settlements-a-touch-easier-1.315635
Nah, Jewbait, the goal of BDS certainly is NOT “getting rid of the world’s only majority-Jewish state”. But yea, getting rid of the world’s only ethnically cleansed majority-Jewish Zionist apartheid regime totally needs to be everyone’s goal.
Israeli control of the U.S. Government was once only disturbing. It is now frightening.
due to economies of scale and our interconnected economy, refusal to consume puts an undue burden on others
freedom of speech is fine, but not consuming is in effect infringing on the free consumption “speech” of our fellow citizens
How does not consuming “infringe on the free consumption speech of our fellow citizens”? They can still consume whatever they want. People opting to abstain from consuming (re: boycott) does not obstruct others from having their own free speech. This law on the other hand, absolutely puts a limit on the free speech of those who wish to boycott Israel.
That’s a joke, right? Because no one will take it seriously.
ACA proponents told us everyone has a fair-share individual responsibility to consume insurance policies written against escalating guaranteed revenue streams.
So….Hans is telling us that we ‘Have to” consume their crap, isn’t that precious?! Your words ‘infringe’ on my intellect.
Do any of these supposed Democrat liberals remember the similar movement against the then apartheid regime running South Africa? That was a similar voluntary effort that was widely supported and even backed in some cases by trade legislation targeting S. Africa. The much bally-hooed “sanctions” against Russia and Iran are similar in content (but govt not voluntary sanctions.)
So the American Constitution can be shredded if someone thinks Israel’s interests might be harmed by some voluntary citizen actions? Really?
The time when self proclaimed liberals (now many relabeled “progressives”) cared anything about civil rights and civil liberties is long past. Now many are mere propaganda stooges for whatever foreign interest group helps them to stay in office. This is a sad and dangerous trend. Good for the ACLU to resist. Any sinister legislation used to “protect” Israel could easily be turned around and used to stop efforts to “help” Israel or any other nation (or interest group, for that matter.) What is the matter with these politicians? Can we believe they are really that blind and stupid?
One only look at how Norman Finklestein was treated for his criticism of Israel to understand that the Israeli regime does not take criticism well. The BDS movement is having an impact on Israel. Here is additional information on the Israeli theocratic apartheid state.
http://www.redressonline.com/2017/07/report-exposes-abuse-and-neglect-of-illegally-detained-prisoners-in-israel/
http://www.redressonline.com/2017/06/why-has-cyprus-become-an-israeli-province/
http://www.redressonline.com/2016/11/keep-your-kids-away-from-israel-its-dangerous-for-jewish-children-says-american-jewish-father/?
The bipartisan consensus supporting Israeli apartheid must be broken. Democrats must require candidates in the future to oppose apartheid, and they must run primary challenges against its supporters. The Democratic party should be rigidly anti-racist on principle, and it is up to us to ensure that it is.
Watch this video to more fully understand what the BDS movement is really about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6vC9YwlARg
In short, Israel is attempting to drive the remaining Christians, most of whom are Palestinian, out of their land. BDS is endorsed by various Christian denominations including Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic and Anglican – a fact deliberately concealed from the American people.
According to Galatians 3:29, those who belong to Christ are Abraham’s descendents, heirs to the promise (Genesis 12:3). What, then, does that make the state calling itself Israel but an imposter, an illegitimate nation thriving on murder, theft, blackmail, false-flags, torture, apartheid, and other atrocities, with their foreign agents deriving power from usury, subversion and political blackmail. They manufacture tyrannical laws in order to suppress foreign nations from scrutinizing their nefarious activities under threat of punishment, because they cannot withstand the light of truth. Such are the actions of tyrants. They even have the audacity to wear the star of Rephan (i.e. mark of the beast, see Acts 7:43) on their flag. All they had to do was change the name from Rephan to David in order to dupe unsuspecting Christians.
When it comes to foreign influence and collusion within the US political spectrum, no other country even comes close, as the following makes abundantly clear.
http://maplight.org/us-congress/interest/J5100/view/all%C2%A0
True Israel is the Church which belongs to Jesus Christ.
There is no validity to Jc. There is no correct witnessing. Palestinians must maintain their Muslim faith or they will die. No god would kill his own.
Jesus Christ is real and there were various non-Biblical eye-witness accounts to that effect. God allows both good and evil to occur. The Creator doesn’t owe the creation an explanation. No matter how long a person lives, whether just a few seconds or 100+ years, the soul is eternal (and the body will be resurrected when the world ends). Eternity is eternity.
Apart from the Muslim Palestinians, there are also thousands of Christians living amongst them. Human rights and dignity should apply to all people, no matter what group. We can both agree that it’s immoral to impoverish, steal from and kill people. Immoral actions do not suddenly become moral depending upon which group is responsible; you cannot kill a person, steal his home and then claim that you’re the victim of oppression and hate. That’s not how reality works. If the shoe was on the other foot and Muslims were doing the same thing to Jews, it would be no less immoral.
So today, spreading lies leading to murder of innocent people called “political activism” in US?
israel, run by a criminal organization under the color of religion to murder people to steal their land, wants to toss American citizens into prison for voicing and demonstrating their objection.
Meanwhile the criminal thieves – likely associated with the wallstreet criminals who get congress support – have got their whores pledged to their gang.
In 1913, something very similar happened in the US.
2017 years ago, the protesters then were not thrown in prison, they were nailed to crosses.
Geez, why not the death penalty? This is, after all, Israel we’re talking about.
sure but how?
perhaps maybe DIE ON A CROSS?
Precisely, why not just gas us and put us the oven if we oppose Israel.
A disgusting frontal assault on the Constitution and specifically, freedom of speech. The politicized SCOTUS will support this bill if it is challenged. Democracy is over; it appears the plutocracy has won. Next? Implementation of the authoritarian element. Arriving soon.
It’s Jewish totalitarianism through all three branches of the US government.
When people can’t win an argument on merit is when they turn to authoritarian extremism.
Agreed.
Our friend Benito Mussolini identifies the real issue addressed in this piece of legislation:
The right to free speech does not extend to infringing on corporate interests. No right is absolute.
The BDS bill is just a test case. The broader principle is that consumers cannot refuse to consume.
We saw this with the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP), which contained a provision called the Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) which, essentially does exactly what he describes in the quote above and is something that our government has been quietly inserting into trade agreements for quite some time now.
So, if you just think of this as Congress making further provisions to protect the investor rights of Israel – as it has long done for other investor rights across the globe – you’ll understand that it’s really not personal, just business…..as usual.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2015/10/06/the-tpp-has-a-provision-many-will-love-to-hate-isds-what-is-it-and-why-does-it-matter/
TransCanada is bringing a huge lawsuit under ISDS because of the denial (temporary if Trump has his way) of Keystone XL against the US. In my local area, the company donated $50K to the local town recreation area as a propaganda move, a small price to pay for good publicity given that they will try to get over a billion for Keystone XL stoppage. I’m sure the locals are ignorant of the connection, and the company does this PR because it owns hydro dams in the area.
In my local area, the company donated $50K to the local town recreation area as a propaganda move, a small price to pay for good publicity given that they will try to get over a billion for Keystone XL stoppage.
Yes, it isn’t just Congress that ends up lumped together in that grab bag known to the corporate world as The Cost Of Doing Business. By the time folks realize they won’t be able to use their recreation areas – or drink the water in their reservoirs and/or water tables – due to pipeline leaks, it will be far too late.
We were due to have a major gas pipeline (to ship gas to Europe from near Boston)(a USG/corporate reason to keep the Ukraine conflict going to replace Russian gas) come right through town but there was stiff resistance. It recently got shelved by the company for “financial” reasons. This is a progressive area, and if it had gone ahead, the push back would have been enormous. But that is the goal, frack for gas here, pollute our air and water, and ship the gas to Europe to thwart the Russians. The corporate elite can live anywhere they want, so they basically have been abandoning the continental US to pollution for profit. If they stay, they buy huge ranches in Montana, Colorado or Wyoming.
It recently got shelved by the company for “financial” reasons.
Good for you folks. Was glad to see you fend off the corporate cash-vacuum that is the Olympics too. More of us need to follow your lead and tactics.
Not surprising that the dumb ass politicians have no idea what is in the bill that they support, one designed to undermine and destroy our 1st Amendment. This is a replay of their approval of the USA Patriot Act without having any idea what was in THAT, and their renewal year after year of that legislation.
It should be pointed out to them that they most likely would have not approved the campaigns and boycotts against South Africa that freed that population from apartheid, and the violence, death and enslavement that that system, now fully realized in Palestine, engendered. The fools in Congress knuckling under to the control of the criminal Israel government, which is in reality more treasonous than anything Trump is doing with Russia, need to be shamed (difficult as they have proven that they have no shame, ethics or concept of human rights and democracy) and removed from office. The ruling two party duopoly is the major problem our country has, and needs to be ended.
Not surprising that the dumb ass politicians have no idea what is in the bill that they support, one designed to undermine and destroy our 1st Amendment. This is a replay of their approval of the USA Patriot Act without having any idea what was in THAT, and their renewal year after year of that legislation.
While it is likely that there are some in the halls of Congress who are as simple-minded as your comment suggests the fact that these kinds of oppressive bills keep occurring and/or are renewed long after their noxiousness has been thoroughly revealed would suggest that a good-sized chunk of our leadership actually approves of them and wants them implemented.
There really are only two choices left wrt our assemblage of Dear Leaders and the legislative shit sandwiches they produce for our consumption:
1. That they really are too stupid to be permitted to control the levers of government or,
2. That they are consolidating their efforts to make the Constitution a worthless piece of paper and are consciously doing so in an effort to maintain the power of those to whom they owe allegiance (I’m really thinking of the corporations/wealthy elite here, but it works for Israel in general as well).
In either case, those who persist in deliberate attempts to undermine our rights should be removed while we still have some tiny shreds of control left over the sham system that allows them to assume power in the first place.
The ruling two party duopoly is the major problem our country has, and needs to be ended.
Yes. This. And the sooner the better.
“2. That they are consolidating their efforts to make the Constitution a worthless piece of paper and are consciously doing so in an effort to maintain the power of those to whom they owe allegiance (I’m really thinking of the corporations/wealthy elite here, but it works for Israel in general as well).”
That explains the utter uselessness of the “resistance” and their inability to do anything meaningful to undermine Trump’s destructive agenda, because in reality, many of the elite “leaders” of the “resistance” support that corporate agenda.
My suggestion to associates when Trump took office is a general and ongoing strike. Shut the country down, because the marches are a joke. The only thing that has tripped Trump up to this point has been his own incompetence, accurately predicted by comedian-political commentator Jimmy Dore. Strikes, shut downs, non consumption/participation are the only things that will work. If people don’t show up, they can’t be shot, beaten or arrested. If they don’t show up, they cannot be accused of being violent. They can boycott (as I do) by just not participating. But the apathetic public won’t act until things get more personal and painful. They are distracted by their cell phones and Netflix. Or deceived and disorientated by the politicians, who they naively believe.
2nd. You do not need any law to boycott or strike. OWS is such and it was PresObama and SosCrookdClinton that shut it down! This is just more of the usfootball team mentality which is totally appropriate for that and your kids soccer games but not for adult decisions.
Hey y’all. It appears the ‘ruling two party duopoly’ ain’t got a leg to stand on .. . and the anarchy inherent in State sovereignty ‘is moving to a climax’!
*the Peace Corps is still looking for a few good men. .. and I hear baby Jesus, alone and unaided, layed the western-most cornerstone foundation.
Pop quiz: the most popular politician in the United States is
a.) a Democrat
b.) a Republican
c.) an Independent
d.) Donald Trump
You left out,
e.) None of the above.
:-)
F. All of the above. :-(
The question was:
Pop quiz: the most popular politician in the United States is
to which I replied,
e.) None of the above.
You think all of the above are popular??? :-s
Yes, they are all popular with different demographics. Popular does not mean accomplished or valuable in anyway.
You’re right! … I thought I had mentioned Hillary Clinton e.)
*edit … “With the rise of Trump it appears the ‘ruling two party duopoly’ ain’t got a leg to stand on .. .”
(something fishy going on here!)
I believe the answer of course is c.) an Independent … but I fully admit he ain’t got much to work with./
a three legged stool has three legs of course and so is the most stable … three people were on the moon mission because its a psychologicaly stable team (like mona heard and doug) … and the holy trinity speaks for itself
point being the time is ripe for a third party to enable freedom and enhance command and control etc
I believe the answer of course is c.) an Independent … but I fully admit he ain’t got much to work with./
Ah, yes. I see what you’re getting at now. And you’re right, of course, as current polls actually show. But you’re also right that he dosn’t have much to work with and they are actively trying to deny him even more on a daily basis. :-s
“Yes. This. And the sooner the better.”
You really think there’s time for that? I know you all get touchy about this but if a majority of online activism is about dissatisfaction with the duopoly and support for an opinion writer or commenters is dependent on their stance concerning that, your activism is only about advertising for a brand, so all anyone in power has to do if they do anything is switch, you know like create a new company.
Because the people aren’t happy, right? How do they need to repackage their message to win the next election or stay in business. What are the trends? What do the people want to hear?
Stating your dissatisfaction in political labels/parties currently in existence is only a request in name change and how we’re spoken to. It doesn’t demand change in what they actually do.
Just like there was lots of negative associations with money and politics but nothing changed and its just about forgotten. Now “legit” is all about the third party
you watch if things stay like this, being a third party candidate in the next election will be the next bs train in power.
The very fact that a voluntary and peaceful way to oppose hellish policies in Israel is made illegal is all the evidence you need of what abominations Israel and the bought-and-paid-for Congress of the United States have become.
“I’d want to read it. … I’d really have to look at it.”
Co-sponsoring a bill you haven’t read. I can see how seriously you take your job, Senator Menendez.
“Finally, it is hard to put into words the irony of watching many of the most celebrated and beloved congressional leaders of the anti-authoritarian Resistance — Gillibrand, Schiff, Swalwell, and Lieu — sponsor one of the most oppressive and authoritarian bills to appear in Congress in many years.”
“Beloved” ? Americans are stupid in their uncritical worship and devotion to their politicians, who are at their core, mostly interested in keeping their well paid positions of power, perks and payola, and not in crafting programs for good governance. This applies across the spectrum, from Ted Cruz to Bernie Sanders, and is just a terrible trait of voters.
I despise politicians, having voted for the phony progressive “Saint” Liz Warren only to see her throw a real progressive under the bus, Sanders, to endorse a criminal, Hillary Clinton. Lately she’s joined the war monger neocons led by Gramps McCain, who fortunately for the civilized world, is out of action for a while. She has totally lost my vote, to the point that I will work against her further tenure as a US senator, in the hope that a real progressive will replace her. I was disappointed that she didn’t run as an Independent, but now understand that she really is a Democrat. A craven, opportunistic politician, who, despite being a former Harvard professor, acts like the most ignorant shill when it suits her.
Fines are always subject to ability to pay and free speech in this country has already been muted by ‘hate speech’ laws.
The maximum criminal penalty is $1 million dollars AND 20 years in jail. presumably if you cannot pay the fine, it will still need to be paid, with interest when you get out. I love this overeach short of putting critics of Israeli war crimes to death, it is sure to backfire.
There is no relation between protesting Israel’s brutal occupation of Palestinian territories and violations of human rights, to the BDS movement.
It is legitimate calling to boycott Israel because of the occupation, in order to pressure negotiating and reconciliation. It is pure evil calling to boycott Israel until it will be wipe out of the world map, as the BDS calls.
The BDS ultimate and declared goal is to eliminate Israel, resulting in a mass genocide of the Jewish population of Israel. They not promoting any solution (except for a Nazi style “final solution”). Hence, it is legitimate to take any measures against this racist and murderous organization.
“War? What’s that? We’re sweet little leftists.”
–the Libya wrecking, Syrian ‘rebel’ arming, Fast and Furious, Jiang Qing, Kim, UNITA, FARC, Shining Path, MRTA, Brigate Rosse, MPLA, Symbionese Liberation Army, Weather Underground, eugenics, Equality, population control, Climate Change, “spread the wealth around,” “they cling to their bibles,” Income Disparity, border erasing, socialist, trannies on NYT pg. 1 every day, Planned Parenthood, immigration reform, no wall, gun control, raised fist progressive left
If I print and paste your posts together will it lead me to the path of righteousness?
Only if you have a decoder ring and possess the secret password and handshake.
depends. left or right ring? ;-)
(1) Government has ZERO business interfering in Civilian boycotts.
(2) Boycotts are the most Democratic and PEACEFUL of actions.
(3) Boycotts are FREEDOM of SPEECH.
(4) Boycotts are FREEDOM of ASSOCIATION — DISassociation.
(5) Boycotts are VOTING with dollars.
(6) Boycotts PEACEFULLY withhold “power/energy” from those with whom one disagrees without engaging in violence.
(7) In “Capitalism”, the system we CLAIM to follow, where and with whom you spend your money is ENTIRELY up to YOU.
The Citizens United Supreme Court decision firmly established that the right to spend money is a form of free speech. That means that the right to NOT spend money is also a form of free speech. Organizing a boycott — an act of NOT spending money — is then protected free speech in the same way that soliciting campaign funds to spend on promoting a political candidate or partisan viewpoint is free speech.
Israel and their doppelgänger hang-
The one inherent power that the public possesses even as the guardians of the neoliberal order try to strip all power away from the lower classes is simply the power to boycott. After all, all the wealth that continues to flow into the 1% has to come from somewhere; the pensions, salaries, healthcare, future, etc. of the less well-to-do, of course. Where else? The extremely wealthy produce no wealth. They simply collect and hoard it.
The power to boycott is the only power that the powers-that-be truly fear. How joyful it would be to watch this power wielded like a hammer blow to all those who would rule for their own benefit.
_”Trump Ends Covert Aid to Syrian Rebels Trying to Topple Assad“_
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/world/middleeast/cia-arming-syrian-rebels.html
Predictably the boundless, non-isolationist progressive left and its leftist newspaper of record is apoplectic about it.
I think there’s something seriously wrong with your head Carol. Since when has the NYT, the toilet-paper of record, been progressive? Tell me about a war that the didn’t support. And now they’re upset that Trump is not sending more arms to a war torn region. And your point is what?
Seriously Carol, you should think about what you type.
“The New York Times, tranny on pg. A1 every day, Equality, let in the Refugees, gun control, immigration reform, open borders, Trump is the bad man, No Borders, borders bad, Income Inequality, Climate Change, Planned Parenthood, gun control NYT…is progressive?”
–the publicly embarrassed about their exposed violence mindedness progressive left
I think Carol is referring to the “socially” progressive faction of the NY Times, the pussy hat wearing liberals, not the hawks (like Clinton, and more recently Sen Warren taking on the mantle of the indisposed Gramps McCain) and that just highlights the schizoid character (or lack of one) of the ass wiping capable rag. As they are losing money, maybe they are using temps from the Wall Street Journal editorial board to write their foreign policy (known as “war, war, war”) drivel.
The primaries and elections of 2016 and their results were a major revelation, as the NY Times and it’s readers exposed themselves as viciously ignorant and partisan fools, on a level that would embarass even the right wing TeaTards. I lost all respect for that class of “intellectuals” who so uncritically pushed the candidacy of the cheating, lying, criminal Hillary Clinton.
ALL of the so-called journalist of the Times were on board with the smearing of Bernie Sanders, and the other third party candidates, honorable people who Clinton was not worthy of cleaning their toilets for, to push the un-indicted candidate who would have led us to war with Russia faster than the impressionable Trump, who is apparently as captive to the military as Obama was to the CIA. The whole election also revealed the deep criminality of the establishment DNC Democrats, who I left in the ashes of history with my registering “unaffiliated” and cancelation of my NY Times subscription. Now my goal is to help the Democrat Party totally collapse, as it is fast on its way, and fully deserves to die for it’s corruption and total lack of principles. It is not at all surprising that the Democrat politicians who approve of the genocide of Palestinians are bought and paid for whores, all of whom are on board due to the bribing, and threats of AIPAC and Israel, who we support at our own peril. The US will remain a target of terrorism for as long as it is part of the problem, and not part of the solution in the M-E.
Israel has only one interest and that’s their own. We’re just their useful idiots.
The right to free speech does not extend to infringing on corporate interests. No right is absolute.
The BDS bill is just a test case. The broader principle is that consumers cannot refuse to consume. Corporations work hard to produce consumer goods. When a consumer chooses not to buy them, people’s livelihoods are placed in jeopardy. Obviously, the whims of capricious consumers should not be placed above the real need of other people to earn a living. Is 20 years in prison too much for refusing to buy something? Possibly. Prisoners don’t consume as much as they should, which hurts the economy. It might be better if the court acted as executor of the convicted felon’s estate, and used its power to purchase items from Israel, or some other targeted entity, that the person themselves had refused to buy.
My point is that reasonable compromises are possible and people shouldn’t become too upset – the proposed legislation is by no means final.
Massachusetts Health Care Reform 2006, and shortly thereafter ACA 2010, especially when Jewish guaranteed professional revenue streams are involved.
Actually, RomneyCare worked well for me, and my other low to moderate income associates. Better than ACA in reality. The Democrats could have implemented single payer/Medicare for All and then NO ONE could have ever taken it away. But no, they had to do what their owners wanted. Obama’s legacy is shit, wholly deserved.
It’s quite a ridiculous stretch to think it is a plot to earn Jewish doctors more money. I doubt it helped at all, as a Jewish doctor friend of mine, who is very competent, is still struggling trying to help his children pay for college. And I’d bet he finds this anti-BDS move repulsive. He’s a humanitarian.
Never. All these goddamn entitled boycotting nimrods. Prison is free room and board. And what do these selfish pricks do? Nothing but complain, complain and complain. The kids today.
Well, Trump could veto this gag order, benitoe, but I wouldn’t count on it.
More likely, Mr. Trump will use this as a test case for his anti-Russiaphobia law
… in the future Democrats who criticize Putin-Russia may well face stiff fines and penalties under law too.
*of course, SCOTUS could declare gag laws unconstitutional but that’s not very likely either … and it takes such a long time.
“Obviously, the whims of capricious consumers should not be placed above the real need of other people to earn a living.” No, that is not obvious at all. A consumer can choose to consume (or not consume) whatever he or she wants. It is not the consumer’s job (or even moral obligation) to provide someone’s salary.
These set of laws are referred to in the “Long title” of the act and ends with, “to minimize interference with the ability to engage in commerce.” A pretty broad stroke of the pen which has only until now been narrowed down.
Why would we make an exception for Israel? Our trade and aid combined doesn’t even rank them in the current top 10 of U.S. economic interests. Strategically valued in the sense that with one push of the button they could cripple most its enemies with a nuclear strike and at the same time destroy disrupt the worlds oil supply. Not economically viable for the department of commerce in that respect, but also the least likely of scenerios.
Most likely would be the perpetuation of the billions of dollars to be made by defence contractors each year in the U.S. who are happy to help “defend” Israel. The same contractors perhaps who lobby for attention in our always greased and loose geared jalopy of a political system. Valves so loose pistons are crossing holes.
No one important or powerful dares challenge Israel.
Not Bernie Sanders. Not Barack Obama. Not Hillary Clinton. Not Donald Trump.
No one except people without actual power.
Let that tell you something.
To be clear, I mean by “threaten to punish” by “challenge,” as only the powerful can punish.
No one with the power to punish DARES challenge Israel.
Think what this means.
And see how pathetically empty powerless resistance to Israel (like this article, or Jeremy Corbyn’s words), as pleasing as they are to pretentious argumentation actually is.
We challenge dopey climate change deniers, not the savvy corporations doing the actual damage. Just so, we complain about accommodating abusive nations instead of denying the super-rich enablers of these nations our fucking franchise.
Don’t stand up as one side of an ‘argument.’ Instead, deny the super-rich their power.
In short, look beyond the labels of Zionist, Democrat, Republican, Salafist, or whatever.
It is ALWAYS the super-rich who are the culprits causing truly consequential discord.
And they want us to fight among ourselves, not turn against the ruling class as a whole.
They own the media, the dialog, the realm of argument. They make even the Intercept one of their puppets, incapable (for all good and evil intentions) of escaping the parameters of establishmentarian left and right. You must go beyond that and challenge THEM, the establishment itself.
What if they made a war and no one fought? What if they gave an election and no one came?
You who love Greenwald’s insights, and all “fuck you”s to real power… See clearly right now that it is the agreement that the status quo is workable and ‘just needs tweaking’ that preserves corruption, and that resistance must be profound, peaceful and beyond the designed dialogs financed by the super-rich which ensure only a continuance of ‘debate’ while corruption grows more entrenched than ever.
You want to damn the right, or the left, when you should damn the super-rich. The “up.”
Thank you Maisie for your two insightful comments. We have been given a bagful of labels and pointed in the direction of where to stick them.
Except she somehow forgot to drop the label “corporations” into that one.
Except she somehow forgot to drop the label “corporations” into that one.
It was in her very first comment in this string,
We challenge dopey climate change deniers, not the savvy corporations doing the actual damage.
Not that I’m surprised you missed it. The Echo is strong in you…..and reminiscent.
It tells me that both parties are spineless and completely blind to the suffering of two million people. Who the hell do they think they are telling people who they can boycott. F**k them.
Glenn Greenwald won a Poultry pooter prize once.
*but, in general, it seems you’re right so far. No updates, no supplications, no explanations, no news from the … vainglorious levers of power pushing this bill.
it tells you that israel is part of the power structure just like the military industrial complex and the insurance industry and the masons for gods sake
nobody important or powerful EVER challenges the masons
let that tell you something
Trump is trying to fight the zionists with Russia and Syrians.We will see.
AIPAC says “No Free Speech for you, Goy!”
MOSSAD quickly work to remove/extort/blackmail those that don’t toe the line
Even if it weren’t unconstitutional, doesn’t the fact that the settlements are illegal mean they aren’t actually part of Israel?
just hears nettyyahu threaten europe
paraphrased “If you don’t support us, you’re crazy”.
netinyahu, clinically paranoid
How many constitutional rights would this violate? The bill is a joke.
1. I fully support a boycott of Israel until they pull back to the pre-1967 war borders, remove ALL settlements, and stop all attacks outside their borders (Gaza, West Bank, etc.).
2. The reason that you won’t get anyone in office to denounce Israel or anything they do is because people in Congress are terrified of AIPAC. That evil group got Cynthia McKinney removed from Congress, and she was extremely popular with her constituents before AIPAC started its campaign against her. Congresspeople know that taking any position against Israel would likely cause them to suffer the same fate.
3. Swalwell is a slimeball, wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw my house. He ran to the right against long term Congressman Pete Stark and defeated him in 2012 (Stark’s abrasive personality was a major factor in his defeat, otherwise Swalwell wouldn’t be in office).
Jeff D, there’s hundreds of thousands of Jews living in settlements in the West Bank… do you really think it’s realistic, to evacuate all of them?? I fully acknowledge that they never should have moved into those settlements in the first place, but perhaps certain concessions ought to be considered, for the sake of peace. Basically where I’m coming from, is that I don’t want either side to adopt a position of, “We will NEVER agree to peace, until condition (X) is met”, where (X) is something that is in no way feasible for the other side to accommodate, for this is how stalemates drag on indefinitely (like, exactly what the situation is right now…) So instead, I feel there needs to be some creative “outside the box” sort of thinking (such as- perhaps an “amnesty” can be granted to the Jewish settlers after the state of Palestine is established, so that they can stay living where they are, but as citizens of Palestine?)
No. The illegal state of Isreael needs to retreat from the lands they savagely stole from the Palestinians. One would think Jews would be sensitive to the very attrocities they are comitting against the Palestinians. I suppose they’ve forgotten what the Nazis did to them. I am repulsed beyond words with Netanyahu and all his racist, religiously-comatose Jewry.
No, I don’t hate ALL Jews. That would be the mark of insanity. However, right is right. And of course, Israel is on the wrong side of all things moral (with regard to Palestine). #BoycottIsrael
“Zionism Is Evil”- do you also feel that all illegal Mexican immigrants in the U.S., should be deported to Mexico? (They are here illegally, right??) Or, do you have some understanding of the reality that the large scale, militarized operation that would be required to round up and deport that many people, would be rather hard for conscientious, compassionate people to stomach? #IntoleranceIsEvil #ReasonIsGood
So Sandra, if someone occupies your home, confines you to the basement and denies you basic amenities, you’d say, that’s fine, let’s live in harmony, I’ll stay in the basement without amenities and you can stay in the rest of the house living in luxury. That’s what the Palestinians are being asked to do. Gaza is nothing more than an open prison under siege.
Earth Citizen- when did I say anything about depriving anyone of amenities??? Please see my response to Steve Naidamast, for clarification of my position (or better yet- my treatise on the subject details my entire position on this subject: http://sandra-llap.rhcloud.com/peace-sells/peace-sells/ – it’s 15 pages and about an hour read from start to finish, but if you can’t spare that much time, then the page “States” gives the specifics of my proposal, and the rest is basically the arguments in its defense).
Sandra, how do you propose a state of Palestine be created when the majority of what is left for such a state has been carved with Israeli settlements?
You suggestion, makes no sense geographically…
Steve- the answer to your question is actually quite simple (so perhaps I should have made this clearer in my other comment): have all of the settlement land be incorporated into Palestine. Hence Palestine would not be “carved with Israeli settlements”, but rather, Palestine would encompass the whole, contiguous region of the West Bank at the ’67 borders (plus Gaza, and East Jerusalem). So I’m just suggesting that the Jewish settlers be allowed to remain living where they are now (but as Palestinian citizens rather than Israeli citizens), with the settlement land itself no longer being “off limits” to Palestinians. (So, suppose the Rosenbaum family living in a settlement decides to move back to Israel. If they were to do this today, then the Mohamed family in the West Bank would not be permitted to purchase & move into the vacated Rosenbaum residence, but the Mohameds would be able to do so after the establishment of the state of Palestine according to my model.)
Jeff D, there’s hundreds of thousands of Jews living in settlements in the West Bank… do you really think it’s realistic, to evacuate all of them?? […] I feel there needs to be some creative “outside the box” sort of thinking (such as- perhaps an “amnesty” can be granted to the Jewish settlers after the state of Palestine is established, so that they can stay living where they are, but as citizens of Palestine?
So, sort of like how Israel took that land in the first place, but in reverse and with more privileges and heavy weapons. :-s
“Jeff D, there’s hundreds of thousands of Jews living in settlements in the West Bank… do you really think it’s realistic, to evacuate all of them??”
Well that was the plan from the beginning; good to see you catching on even at this late date.
Israel has been stealing land through murder approaching genocide for decades. They should all get the fuck out of the lands taken after the 1947 mandate.
the compromise would be that those who remain in the settlements would then be subject to Palestinian law, because they’re living in Palestinian territory. The would be immigrants. How many would stay?
Actually, Israel did evacuate the settlements in Gaza – then blew them up, so the Gazans wouldn’t benefit. We’ve seen how that turned out, because Israel never actually gave up the occupation.
Oregoncharles- yes, you make an interesting point… I also suspect that if the settlers were to be given the choice of either remaining in the settlements as Palestinian citizens, or returning to Israel and retaining their Israeli citizenship, many (most?) would probably choose to return to Israel. But the abandoned settlements certainly shouldn’t then be destroyed (what a pointless, colossal waste!)
They could stay but would be under Palestinian law like any expat living abroad. They could still participate in Israeli affairs like any citizen of a country does living abroad.
Patrick- you’ve brought up a noteworthy alternative (that the settlers retain their Israeli citizenship, and live in the new state of Palestine as expats) to what I had suggested (that the settlers adopt Palestinian citizenship). I would guess that most settlers would prefer the expat arrangement, so this would make such a two state proposal more appealing to the Israelis. So I guess the question then is, would the Palestinians accept this? (Perhaps, if they were also provided with positive incentives as part of the deal, like the implementation of a Palestinian right of return policy?)
Forget it. The line keeps moving ever more toward harm to Palestinians. First Israel was created by the theft of Palestinian land and the killing of anyone who wouldn’t move voluntarily, then the 1967 war border expansion, then the settlements. It has to stop somewhere. Israel should never have been created in the Middle East to begin with; its creation was a major human rights crime. Land for European Jews should have been taken from Germany, not the Palestinians.
Jeff D- I absolutely, fervently agree that “it has to stop somewhere” (that’s why I’ve been writing all these dang comments, suggesting a move in a different direction, towards a peace plan…) We can’t go back in time, so I don’t feel that discussions of what would have been the best thing to do decades ago, is all that constructive. Rather, what’s more relevant to discuss at this point is- what is the best way to move forward, given the present circumstances? And so what I’ve been basically advocating, is that the quickest and most feasible route to peace (acknowledging fault on both sides) is to seek the “middle ground”- an ideal compromise point that both sides are able to get to, and enough people on both sides can be persuaded to accept. However the consensus among most of the commenters here seems to be that the Palestinians shouldn’t compromise one iota (as if they were all completely blameless, innocent angels, which is just willfully ignoring reality), and instead, Israel should be pressured (through the boycotts, etc.) to fully cave on everything. So I guess time will tell, but I just feel it will take a lot longer (with this unpleasant mess dragging on & on & on), to get to peace that way.
The problem with your position is that it falsely assumes equal blame, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Whether the Palestinians are blameless angels is an irrelevant red herring. The facts are as I stated them in my first comment, and you didn’t address them except to falsely claim that both sides are equally to blame, which is ridiculous. No justice, no peace, as the demonstration chant goes.
Hello again, Jeff. Actually, I hadn’t stated that both sides have “equal” blame- I had only contended that both sides share *some* of the blame (in other words, neither side is completely blameless).
And as for the “no justice, no peace” saying… I’ve actually gotten into such a debate before (with someone who had commented on my own website), and so here’s my analysis regarding that: http://sandra-llap.rhcloud.com/philosophizing/#comment-41
I’m not going to read the long comment. Suffice to say that for people in positions of privilege like Israelis, peace without justice is obviously fine and is preferable to having to provide justice. For people on the other side, like Palestinians, there must be justice, and peace is secondary.
You can not have a debate with Jeff D. He ignores facts even when they come from the very people he is defending. He also is highly emotional.
The facts are that both side hold blame and the leaders of both sides don’t want peace.
When did israel NOT meddle/interfere in US elections?
Actually israel is the biggest interferer second to the US in elections.
israel sent an emissary to florida who campaigned for the lying Romney.
israel prime minister lectured the US congress.
israel just took $38,000,000,000 of US money for weapons which it buys and thru a secretive group, resells to others which the US otherwise forbids and guess who profits billion$ ??? (a team including persons in hollywood)
israel has persons placed in the US State dept Middle East branch which is 100% occupoed by israeli citizens and propaganda even tho the office is for the entire middle east.
israel forces conresspersons to sign a pledge of allegiance to israel above and beyond their duty to the US.
israeli is said to have participated in 911 coverup.
israeli citizens are now occupying elected positions in the US congress.
and now they propose to throw good American citizens into prison for being good Americans.
I did a quick Google search, exercising your (former) right to free speech under this bill would be penalized with roughly the same level of severity as violating federal laws against: bank fraud, kidnapping, child pornography, or hijacking an aircraft. I’m not joking.
So here’s a simple solution–Divest NOW, while you still can legally. They can’t force you to reinvest, right?
Resist and Divest!
They probably can and will.
The US has just bombed Mosul to oblivion, killing tens of thousands in the process and the “Civilised” west hardly bats an eyelid. If that can happen, they can certainly force you to reinvest (at risk of severe financial penalties if you don’t).
According to political pundits, obsession over foreign governments meddling in American politics doesn’t apply to Israel. They undermine our constitution by pushing laws to suppress freedom of speech with bi-partisan support. It’s a scary time in America.
I feel that the ACLU letter has a very key point, worth noting:
“We take no position for or against the effort to boycott Israel or any foreign country, for that matter. However, we do assert that the government cannot, consistent with the First Amendment, punish U.S. persons based solely on their expressed political beliefs.”
Personally, I happen to not be a proponent of BDS (I explain why in this op-ed I wrote- https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/5/11/1660715/-Open-Letter-To-Daniel-Pipes, but the short answer is that I feel that their demands are too extreme and unrealistic), but I agree with the ACLU here that such legislation is a bad idea in principle (i.e., if another boycott movement were to arise that had fairer demands than BDS’s, then that would likely be prohibited under this legislation as well. And so while I don’t support BDS, I also don’t feel that Israel is doing everything entirely right either, thus if nonviolent tactics for opposing Israel’s wrongful policies are ruled out, then what options are left for improving the situation?)
I’m curious what you find among the demands of BDS that are extreme. Sincere Question.
I follow news on BDS, but am not overly familiar with details. I understand that Norman Finkelstein and the BDS movement also don’t see eye to eye, which is a source of major heartburn for me.
I didn’t click on your link, because I was afraid it might have a picture of Daniel Pipes.
First of all, I promise you- the article I linked to does _not_ have a photo of Daniel Pipes (it actually has a cute meme I made that might make you “LOL”, so go ahead and give the link a click- I honestly doubt you’ll regret it). :)
And then while you’re on that page, you can see what my objections to BDS are… but, if you’re *really* so reluctant to take a look at that article, I’ll give a brief explanation here: for one thing, my understanding is that most in the BDS movement favor abolishing the state of Israel and replacing it with “one state”, whereas I prefer a two state solution. And secondly, they advocate for a hardcore interpretation of the right of return for Palestinians that would allow around a million Palestinians to come to Israel, which I feel is (1)- not feasible for a tiny & already densely populated country like Israel is, to accommodate, and (2)- not really carrying out true “justice” as it ostensibly claims to, because not all the Palestinians now living outside of Israel, were forced out (some were, yes, but many did leave voluntarily). So what I believe would be more fair, would be for there to be some vetting process that would reduce the numbers of entering Palestinians down to something more reasonable.
Oh dear what utter hypocrisy. You, it would seem, are OK with a Jewish right of return, no matter how tenuous or none the connection with Israel, but bulk at the right of Palestinians, forfully deported, from returning to their rightful homes.
Actually, Earth Citizen- I never said *anything* about the Jewish right of return (you’re accusing me of hypocrisy by putting words in my mouth). If a million diaspora Jews suddenly wanted to relocate to Israel tomorrow, then guess what- Israel wouldn’t be able to handle that either! And I never said that I was against the Palestinian right of return- I only said that implementing this to the extent that BDS wants, would be nigh unto impossible. However on the other hand, if the returning Palestinians were to be comparable in numbers to the levels of Jewish immigration, then that would be fine, because it’s something that Israel has some chance of actually being able to realistically manage.
These distinctions are rather important, because it gets to the very heart of the conflict- which is, that rather than attempt to understand the legitimate objections of the other side to unreasonable demands, and then agree to scale back on demands so that peace can be achieved, there is instead the tendency to automatically demonize the other side (assuming that the objections are based on nothing but pure evil), and so impossible demands are tenaciously clung to, and thus peace is never realized.
You seem like a nice person and I don’t really want to pick a fight with you. But the way you phrase the information, regarding where you put “some” or “many,” or to suggest that Palestinians left “voluntarily,” is quite unfair.
The Israel Palestine issue has come to a point where most people are aware of what happened. The Indians didn’t cede their lands to the Whites “voluntarily,” some or many. Neither did the Palestinians. Try to be fair to the Palestinians when you get the chance, because Israel sure as hell isn’t.
AtheistInChief, thank you- I am indeed a nice person (and you seem pretty nice too). :) And you have a fair point about the “some” and the “many” in my sentence (OK, perhaps I should have had those two words switched). But I gather from your objection to my wording, that you feel that Israel should let in most of the million or so diaspora Palestinians that are vying for return. However the issue I have with this, is that the more extreme the demands on Israel are, the less likely it’ll be that Israel will agree to them. Which brings us to (the main topic here), the boycott movement… which aims to *force* Israel to accept the demands, through crushing economic sanctions. I suppose you never did read my article, so I guess I’ll just repeat here, the arguments that I had made in it: the main problem with the BDS approach, is that they won’t achieve their desired outcome until the movement garners enough support from the world at large, so that the boycott impacts Israel’s economy to such an extent that the suffering inflicted upon the Israelis by it, outweighs whatever negative consequences the Israelis feel may come about as a result of succumbing to the terms of the boycotters- which could be a very, very long ways off… So therefore, if BDS is to resolutely insist on having all of their conditions exactly met, then perhaps if they *really* want everything they’re clamoring for THAT badly, then they should also consider other approaches, which may bring about their desired goals sooner than just boycotting alone (such as- perhaps also putting some pressure on Hamas, to amend its charter so that it no longer calls for the obliteration of Israel through jihad??)
I think the main issue with your argument is you feel that the Israeli government should have some sort of say in their policies’ consequences… That would be like a judge asking an individual convicted of a crime if he will accept whatever sentence he is given. It no longer matters if he accepts or doesn’t, that individual forfeited his right to dispute it and this is the consequence that comes with the action.
The Israeli government and the settlers committed illegal acts and are continuing to do so full stop. The consequence for that should be removing all their human shields (Israeli settlers, since their justification for them is security) out of the territory that doesn’t belong to them according to nearly every country on the planet. That has been the main goal of the disenfranchised, they already accepted the loss of 80% of they’re historic home and are only calling for the West Bank and Gaza as a future state. In my mind that is a huge concession, yet the Israelis would like to get a little bit more.
Israel doesn’t seem to want to accept the consequences and continues to commit illegal acts, so as individuals that respect the rule of law we should make them pay for it by whatever means possible. There are standards, Israel doesn’t get a free pass. Numerous resolutions and warnings have been given to them stating the settlements have no legal validity and are not accepted. They willfully and arrogantly violated the law, Israeli government and settlers alike.
You think it’s not “realistic” to accept all the Palestinian refugees in diaspora and to evacuate the illegal settlements? I thought it was unrealistic that a state could slowly disappear out of existence right before the worlds eyes, but here we are.
The US government has nothing to do with Hamas, it doesn’t support them at all… How does one put pressure on an organization you have no ties to? Write a strongly worded letter? Also their Charter has been amended, about a months ago. If you’re so interested in charters I implored you to look at the Likud political charter. It has nice fancy lawyer doublespeak wording in it but it states that they won’t ever accept a Palestinian state and furthermore they regard Israel as extending past its present day border with Jordan.
You never know maybe in 5 years Israel might slowly creep into Jordan citing God, as if he is a real estate agent, and build even more settlements. They’re will probably be individuals that will come out and say well it’s “unrealistic” that we remove those settler too.
You seem nice, don’t be an apologist. A crime is a crime. No justice, no peace. Even Israel knows this to be true. They kidnapped Nazi officers in Germany and brought them to Israel for trials why? Because the criminal had to face his consequences.
Hamas’ Charter??? That’s the problem? Hamas has 3 guns and 2 bullets, and you want to talk about their charter? This Red Herring may work on CNN, but not on these parts. You actually believe that if Hamas changes it’s Charter, Israel will stop bulldozing homes, and confiscating Palestinian land and homes? You can believe it, if it makes you sleep easier. But you’re on the wrong side of History. At some point, there should be a Nuremberg like trial for Israelis. They’re participating in war crimes. This is the 21st century, not the 1930s. You can’t feign ignorance. You can be with the war criminals or you can open your eyes.
AtheistInChief, I can turn the tables on you: Do you believe that if Israel fully evacuated from the West Bank (including every single last one of the hundreds of thousands of Jewish settlers), and Israel let in every single last one of the million or so diaspora Palestinians seeking return, then Hamas would officially declare that they no longer wish to obliterate Israel through violence and establish an Islamic state “from the river to the sea”, and instead, that they now renounce violence, and accept Israel’s right to exist? Lest I remind you that when Israel forcibly removed all of the Jewish settlers from Gaza, the Gazans showed their appreciation for this by electing Hamas, and then firing rockets into Israel?
Just because one side may be doing some things wrong, doesn’t automatically make the other side 100% right. In order to achieve peace, there needs to be less of the wrong, and more “warm fuzzy vibes”, and I’m just not getting warm fuzzy vibes from Hamas… (In contrast- here’s some warm fuzzy vibes that this situation could use a LOT more of: https://www.facebook.com/IsraelLovesPalestine/, https://www.facebook.com/palestinelovesisrael.peacefactory/)
AtheistInChief, I can turn the tables on you: Do you believe that if Israel fully evacuated from the West Bank (including every single last one of the hundreds of thousands of Jewish settlers), and Israel let in every single last one of the million or so diaspora Palestinians seeking return, then Hamas would officially declare that they no longer wish to obliterate Israel through violence and establish an Islamic state “from the river to the sea”, and instead, that they now renounce violence, and accept Israel’s right to exist? Lest I remind you that when Israel forcibly removed all of the Jewish settlers from Gaza, the Gazans showed their appreciation for this by electing Hamas, and then firing rockets into Israel?
Just because one side may be doing some things wrong, doesn’t automatically make the other side 100% right. In order to achieve peace, there needs to be less of the wrong, and more “warm fuzzy vibes”, and I’m just not getting warm fuzzy vibes from Hamas. (In contrast- here’s some warm fuzzy vibes that this situation could use a LOT more of: http://thepeacefactory.org/)
No you can’t turn the tables on me. Those are not the rules. You can’t just walk over to Mexico and take it over, just because you think Mexicans are dangerous. China doesn’t like India. India doesn’t like China. China can’t just go over to India because it feels like it. Neither can Israel. People have to learn how to get along in a world full of danger. Israel isn’t special. And Palestinians don’t have to live in a goddamn fucking ghetto, and be treated like rats, in their own country, just so you can feel safe. Get over yourself. You’re not better.
Ah well… No, I don’t want anyone to live in a ghetto… my vision is for a sovereign & independent state of Palestine, living side by side in peace and harmony with a sovereign & independent state of Israel, where the two not only are no longer enemies, but actually become *allies* (like Germany and France, so, yes- it _is_ possible…) So the main question really is- what will it take, to get there? If the two sides can’t work out some reasonable compromise, because the middle ground lies too far outside of each’s “comfort zone”, then I suppose (regrettably), that the path to resolving this will be one of contention and strife, where Israel may be forced into undertaking monumental feats (such as the forced expulsions of the hundreds of thousands of settlers, and the absorption of a million Palestinians). Or perhaps there may end up being “one state”, roughly half Jewish and half Arab, and hence neither Israel nor Palestine, but some unforeseeable sort of hybrid conglomerate (alas, time will tell, time will tell…)
You have to be fair, and treat the other side like human beings. If you have a situation like Germany after World War I, where they have to pay reparations to the French, that’s not going to work. You have to believe that you have a partner and treat the other side like partners. Stop dealing with the likes of the Palestinian Authority, and lining their Swiss bank accounts with money, just because they do your bidding. Stop building settlements while you’re engaged in a “peace processs.” Stop treating the other side like untermensch. Read some Max Blumenthal.
There is barely anything left of Palestine. Israel has closed the doors to that option.
They did that to themselves
Kathleen- as I’ve stated in comments in another thread on this page- I definitely agree that the settlements have unfortunately made a two state solution _harder_ to implement, but not impossible… What I’d like people to consider, is the possibility of a state of Palestine comprised of Gaza and the whole, contiguous region of the West Bank at the ’67 borders, and just allow the Jewish settlers to remain living where they are, with the option of having Palestinian citizenship.
(And, apologies for the duplicate comment- my first response didn’t show up so I re-posted it with a different link, but then the other comment did get published…)
Such demands – as in demanding the sugjugation of others as to slaves – is not the domain of policy or law, it is the domain of Will of God. And having a “nice spot” is simply a blemish on evil skin.
Surely there can be a pretty big space between not supporting something, and criminalizing it?
“Surely there can be a pretty big space between not supporting something, and criminalizing it?”
Absolutely! I stated very explicitly in my initial comment that while I’m personally opposed to BDS, I’m also opposed to this legislation that would criminalize support of BDS. (And furthermore- while I’m opposed to BDS, I’m actually also rather critical of Israel- I just don’t happen to believe that BDS is going about their opposition to Israel in the best way… So basically, this is a somewhat complex and nuanced issue, so knee-jerk reactions and simplistic analyses like what’s in many of these comments here, really don’t work so well for this particular issue.)
schumer and company want to subject all americans to wallstreet thieves and israel – you know, like obama and hellary wanted to do with the TPP.
here is the test
give a person 2 flags, one american one israel, and a match.
tell them to burn one.
see where there loyalty really is.
Cynthia McKinney, All American
Cynthia McKinney was right in saying that every member of Congress is required to sign a pledge to ISRAEL before taking office. Never has that proven to be more true than the undying love and support for AIPAC by Congress for whom AIPAC BUYS LOYALTY.
ISRAEL OWNS OUR GOVERNMENT.
#SanctionIsrael
#zionism
You sign up shariaforyou!
So this is the new Hasbara tactic? If someone complains about Israel, scare them that sharia is coming to get them?
You fuckers need some new “professors” over at Hasbara University.
No matter what you say, at the end of the day— where do you live, in a sharia law land? No!
With all the well reasoned points and great posts by the readers of TI, posts like yours look extremely petty. You actually help to expose how irrational people with your positions are. Proceed!
I like this new era of honesty.
Israel has committed war crimes and should be boycotted. It’s the Senators that should also be boycotted. Don’t vote for them in the next election. We need change.
It’s easier to criticize the US than it is to criticize Israel (even after Israel killed US troops in the 1967 war).
Does Israel have to kill the relative of a celebrity or politician before the US allows criticism of it?
Nope, crticism still not allowed.
Assasinate the president… crticism still not allowed.
When enough Americans decide it is time to take military action against the Zionists who have stolen their country https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it I will enthusiastically join them.
ACHTUNG AMERICANS!!
You and your land belong to my chosen people. The capitol of America shall be with the pharisees who now ocupy your congress. The master of your destiny shall be with the Gold Zuckers in nyc and that city shall be renamed New TelAviv or whatever the translation is for “city of te master race”.
_”Sen. Schumer proposes “no-ride list” for Amtrak trains“_
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-security-trains-idUSTRE7472CF20110508
Progressive leftism has always been about surveillance and control and checkpoints.
friend says “oh, maybe he takes the train…”
PARANOIA RUNS DEEP!
worse than netty yayhoo or what!
Schumer is Democratic Party Establishment, Carol. He’s the MINORITY LEADER. He ain’t no Progressive. Bernie is a Progressive. Schumer / Hillary / No Difference. Read the previous article by Greenwald.
If Paul Ryan proposed something similar, I have little doubt that Carol would lament his turn to progressive leftism.
“If up was down, if orange was blue, if right was left, if the Beatles were the Stones, I have little doubt that….” –the progressive left
“ObamaCare, gun control, open borders, Equality, Income Inequality, Climate Change, Planned Parenthood Charles Schumer ain’t no progressive. Our marginalized cult leader Bernie with the screwy hair ready made for our cult Ts with the wife under federal criminal investigation for activities related to crafting yet another New England private college is.” –the progressive left
Hillary made a mess of your head Carol. Forget about that thieving, venal, warmonger, and come into the light. It’ll be good for your health.
You’re confused. Schumer is neither progressive nor left. He’s just a Democrat, hence corporatist.
The Soviets got NOTHING on the Zionists when it comes to meddling in our affairs. Hey Schiff, and the rest of you myopians, this is getting REAL expensive for the American taxpayer. Got hasbara?
5 things.
#1. It is less than inspirational that people still believe that some sort of
“constitution” applies to the faking U$A.
#2. The religion which unites all of these manipulating warmongering
corporate agents is a mix of vanity, delusion, and greed. They,
whether Israeli, French, faking U$A-an….. or whatever, have no real
allegiance to anything beyond money and power and they will lie to your
face to suck you into their sadistic game.
#3. ALL religions and nationalities are manipulative schemes and those
with nation-hood are among the most dangerous. This includes all religions
which masquerade as economic dogmas (and vice versa).
#4. There is one inhabitable planet we know of and its divisions
are manufactured manipulations by desperately devious hominoids
who can’t wait to get beyond this world.
#5. Have a nice day.
Since everything you said makes perfect sense to me, I can’t help but have a nice day – depressing as the truth may be, as related in this article. Thanks.
Your five points are on the money. I only have a tiny quibble with your first one,
#1. It is less than inspirational that people still believe that some sort of
“constitution” applies to the faking U$A.
You are correct that the Constitution has been largely whittled and starved into retreat, BUT, where I take inspiration from is the fact that it is still taught to our children – has not yet been altogether removed from consideration – along with the jingoistic, indoctrinational bullshit about how wonderful the US is overall. That hypocritical juxtaposition maintains the possibility, however slight, for building change. Where there is smoke – e.g. the vociferous defense of, say, the Second Amendment, so ably trumpeted by the NRA – there is also the potential for fire – similar defense of the rest of that document.
However, as you note, this defense must come from the vast majority of the populace if it is to be successful, and people get caught up in defending only those bits most near and dear t them. And we are losing ground more rapidly than most comprehend. That is the bet that the elite, who are busily enacting this erosion, have taken and rely on. And, to date, they have been winning.
Anyway, good comment. Succinct and to the point.
And the story of Jesus Christ was written on the outline of Julius Caesar’s biography. The loyalty to Israel goes through Christianity? https://www.facebook.com/GreatestBibleStudyInHistoricalAccuracy/
I post this in response to your point #3.
Religion was once a place of innocence, truth, [STOP LAUGHING] moral schooling, inspiration, transcendence; but, with more than 25 extractions from the biographies of Julius Caesar appearing in the life of Jesus Christ, yes, Julius Caesar is masquerading as Jesus Christ. Religious leaders who know this and have not said anything are lying to our faces. And that is not the worst of it–but I don’t want to get into that, here.
So, Clark, I agree with you on #3 but I disagree with you also, religion is not just economics.
As for #4, what is beyond this world?
It’s hard to believe such a thing is happening, and on such a large scale. I’m so concerned.
Illegal to oppose a terrorist nation? We’ve come a long way down the wrong road, when we are forced to support terrorist scum like Israel.
Errm: The ACLU backed the Nazi’s on that one because the Nazi’s were Jewish Nazi’s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Collin
Everywhere else, Ooops!
SOL, othered Nazi’s. Wrong DNA.
Now if we could just figure out why all of these “white people” hate us!
What about churches that have divested from Israel?
It’s hard to believe that all universities that have discussed
it and come close, were guilty of contemplating #felonies.
It’s obviously a horrible and scary law.
But this message board looks like I stumbled onto the Daily Stormer or David Duke’s fan page.
No idea what that is. How’s the weather in Haifa?
This bill is pure treason as it abrogates the constitution which congessmen are sworn to uphold; in addition, it supports a foreign government above our constitution. This makes Russia-gate look like kindergarten.
That’s it in a nutshell. The oath of office is now a promissory note. The people who claim to represent us really don’t care anymore.
Randall-
“Mostly a good article, but this piece dwells a little too much on the “AIPAC rules Washington” thesis.”
Oh really? Hey- I like that huge snuggly white diaper you are swaddled in there-you look as comfy as a ham sandwich with your ears peeking out of the legholes; or “happier than a hasbara parrot with a mouth full of nuts.”
Oooops!
Please don’t let the thinking hurt your head-is there ANY OTHER LOBBY in Wash DC? AIPAC/MIC/DVIC+ complicit media = every lobbyist in Washington, because there are no industries left .
Meanwhile-how did the Anti-Defamation League Model (ADLM) of pervasive spying on Americans (based in the racism and zionist supremacy of dual citizens and cockroaches) become America’s domestic DHS spy-on-all-Americans-all-the-time scheme?
The Goyim Know!
https://psmag.com/news/kings-garbage-76228
No one word, one to point out, the ideology within: Zionism. Glenn what’s happening with you?
Mostly a good article, but this piece dwells a little too much on the “AIPAC rules Washington” thesis. When the Intercept’s Greenwald and Grim interview senators, you might expect this would elicit typical examples of Congressional cluelessness, and that’s what happens. But Greenwald and Grim see the cluelessness in more sinister terms: the Intercept’s reporters write that senators are acting “almost as though they reflexively sign whatever comes from AIPAC without having any idea what’s in it”. I think Greenwald revealed a kind of blind spot of his own when he wrote that phrase — whenever you perceive the people you’re criticizing as if they just have a conditioned reflex to agree with someone you dislike, you’re painting a simplistic picture and failing to see them accurately.
It’s true, as the bill’s defenders and critics both point out, that Washington has a longstanding bipartisan policy of supporting Israel’s government. But when you have that kind of long-lasting policy consensus, the explanation of how it came to happen can’t be as crude as “Some lobby group conditioned lots of people to reflexively agree with them”. To make policies last, there have to be values or perceived values involved, not just reflexes. Even though many senators don’t have much personal concern for ethical values, they always do keep a careful watch on their constituents’ values. So what is going on with these values when a large number of Americans are pretty receptive to anti-Palestinian measures like this? There are a lot of conflicting values involved here — defenders of Palestinian rights might say that “Americans are often prejudiced against Palestinians” or “Helping Israel defeat Palestinians is seen as useful for American hegemony”. There’s some truth in that I guess, but what most defenders of Palestinian rights don’t want to face is that supporting Israel against Palestinians is seen in many quarters as support for democracy.
I want to emphasize: an important part why bad anti-Palestinian bills and policies often get passed is because of the idea that supporting Israel against Palestinians equals supporting democracy. That’s not all of the story, but it’s a part of the story that those of us who believe in Palestinian rights often don’t want to look at, so I’m going to emphasize it instead of taking the lazy road of blaming everything on AIPAC’s power. And you know, it’s not hard to find some halfway-plausible reasons for why people might believe that the Israeli side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the side of democracy. Israel is, in a lot of ways, more democratic than the vast majority of countries in the Middle East. I wouldn’t quite agree with the frequently-repeated claim that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East — that’s too black-and-white and ignores recent developments in Tunisia — but the millions of Americans who see Israel as the Middle East’s best example of a stable democracy aren’t totally wrong. The Palestinian people do deserve part of the blame for why Americans see them as opponents of democracy, given the policies that many Palestinians have supported over the decades. I don’t think it’s fair that Israel’s anti-democratic actions get little notice in America, while anything anti-democratic that Palestinians do is exaggerated beyond recognition. And I think Americans should realize that our own government has pushed things in an anti-democratic direction. But if you want to speak to Americans in defense of Palestinian rights, you have to recognize how it can be that many Americans have come to see the Israeli side as the pro-democracy side; you have to see that there’s some truth in that and you have to be able to respond in a way that appeals to values that are shared in America. As far as appealing to values and principles go, Greenwald and Grim do a good job of appealing to the principle of free speech and rejecting prejudice, and that makes a start at showing what’s wrong with this anti-boycott bill. But they don’t get into the issue of democracy, and that weakens their argument. Someone could read their article and say “Okay, I see that the ACLU takes a firm free-speech position against this bill, and I’m not surprised that the ACLU has a strict free-speech point of view, but as for me, I don’t care as much about strictly supporting free speech — I’m more concerned in making sure that democracies like America win in global conflicts. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and it’s our ally; Palestinians often want to bomb us. So I’ll support this anti-boycott bill to help strengthen Israel.” There’s nothing in Greenwald and Grim’s article that can help convince such a person.
One thing I’d want to say against this bill is that it harms efforts to help Israel become more democratic. Many Palestinians have turned to peaceful, market-based efforts to improve democracy in places like the West Bank. If they succeed it would help the world become a more stable and democratic place. Some Americans want to work with our allies in Europe and elsewhere in helping this work. Americans should be allowed to do this. We know that peace in the Middle East isn’t going to be just about one side getting its way. Even though Israel is largely our ally, there are some things the Israeli government does, like what they do with settlements, which obstruct peace, cause needless harm, and make the world a more dangerous place. Israeli settlements aren’t the kind of thing that modern Americans would do, and Americans who are working towards a solution without settlements shouldn’t be hauled into court and penalized for doing that. Democracy requires allowing different points of view, and we need to allow more efforts that not only promote more democracy in Israel but also allow democracy for Palestinians too.
Thanks, Bibi.
Thanks for the thoughtful perspective. I agree… the bill is awful and it’s origin aren’t so simplistic.
I was thinking the same and also the approach he mentioned makes sense,
King wrote the famous piece about white moderates. You ought to read it. You are so mealy mouthed in your criticisms of Israel it is clear that you don’t take Palestinian rights seriously. Israel is democratic in roughly the sense that Mississippi was in 1950. There is a fetish about that word ” democracy”, one that allows people to use it to paper over war crimes so long as they have popular support. The idea that American support for Israel is based on democratic values is true in the sense that many people in the US have a conscious or unconscious bias against Palestinians. AIPAC feeds off that– they wouldn’t be as successful if it didn’t exist. So I agree AIPAC isn’t all powerful, but your attempt at making it seem like widespread bigotry in favor of Israeli oppression is a good thing doesn’t really hold water.
There’s a right way and a wrong way to support Palestinian rights in America.
The ethically lazy way to support Palestinian rights is to portray things as a simplistic good guys vs. bad guys issue. Plenty of supporters of Palestinians take the lazy path like you, portraying Palestinians as the good side and acting as if the American government’s stance was just due to bad influences like the power of AIPAC, Americans’ prejudice against Muslims, capitalist imperialism, and similar stuff. You can give yourself a pleasant feeling by being lazy that way and saying “The Palestinian people are the good side, everything bad that’s happened is due to bad people on the anti-Palestinian side”. But even though lots of Palestinian supporters make themselves feel good by saying this, it’s never going to convince most Americans. Most Americans know that this version of events is too out of touch with reality.
What I think is a more reasonable way to support Palestinian rights involves being aware that the Palestinian people have some significant bad spots on their record, just like all the other peoples of the world. There are flaws in Palestinian culture, just as there are flaws in every other existing culture in the world, including certainly our own. The bad situation in Israel/Palestine can’t be blamed entirely on Israel and its allies. A lot of it is Israel’s fault, but some of it is the Palestinians’ fault, and some of it is our own government’s fault too. The case for Palestinian rights can be made without trying to seek excuses for what Palestinians have done wrong, especially since Palestinians are far from being the main wrongdoers here. But if you try to make the Palestinians look super-innocent, if you take a blame-the-other-side approach, then people like you will have only yourselves for an audience. Americans, like every other nation I know, don’t react well to one-sided criticism of the stance they’re taking, particularly if they can see the flaws in the side you’re praising. When people in other countries have tried to criticize their nation’s consensus with this kind of closed-minded, one-sided criticism, they don’t make things better and often make things worse.
You imply that Israel is less of a democracy than the present-day United States (which is far from being democratic), and you’re right about that. Your comparison of Israel to Mississippi in 1950 is fairly accurate — Israel fans would say that at least Muslim citizens of Israel have the right to vote, but that right doesn’t mean too much in practice and ignores the disenfranchisement of the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories. Still, if you want to convince Americans, it would really help if you had a convincing case to make about how supporting Palestinian rights helps democracy. If you don’t show how supporting Palestinian rights helps democracy, you leave Americans thinking that the way to side with democracy at a geopolitical level is by supporting Israel against the Palestinians. So you have to convince Americans that there’s more to the issue of democracy in the Middle East than a one-sided support for Israel. If you could present a more accurate and less one-sided view of the world, Americans wouldn’t see support for Israel as support for democracy. But unfortunately, most supporters of Palestinian rights are too wrapped up in their own one-sided closed-minded views to convince Americans on this.
You say Americans won’t hear it unless you present it in terms of both sides being guilty.
But the reason for the Senate bill to come and try to squelch 1st Amendment rights relating to internationally-led boycotts, is that Americans ARE hearing it, and it isn’t because anyone told them that both sides are supposedly guilty.
You have said the Palestinians are not completely innocent. Yet I do not see you listing any of the things the Palestinians did wrong so as to educate us about it, which means whatever it is, how important could it really be to you.
“You have said the Palestinians are not completely innocent. Yet I do not see you listing any of the things the Palestinians did wrong so as to educate us about it…”
OK, for starters- how about, after Israel forcibly removed all the Jewish settlers from Gaza, the Gazans then showed their appreciation for this by electing Hamas (whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel through jihad), and then started firing rockets at Israel? (And then of course there’s what Randall was probably assuming ought to be such common knowledge that it didn’t need to be spelled out, but I guess it does: all of the many innocent victims of terrorism, throughout the entire history of the conflict, a lot of them being children… or do you not see anything wrong with murdering Jewish children? Heck, you certainly wouldn’t be alone in feeling that way…) #arablivesmatter #jewishlivesmatter
This comment is the equivalent of a treatise on buttering toast. You have said nothing of substance here in 500 words.
Another commenter called you mealy mouthed, and it’s the perfect descriptor. I like nuance and the internet isn’t a great place to find it, but your comment strives for nuance without any actual substance.
“An important part why bad anti-Palestinian bills and policies often get passed is because of the idea that supporting Israel against Palestinians equals supporting democracy,” the core of your comment: the thesis of this bland proposal is nothing more than saying Americans support Israel because the US supports Israel which doesn’t challenge the article at all.
Another poster points out what’s wrong with your statement, but I’m more upset because your comment makes every high school student and beauty pageant contestant look bad.
Well, I’m not sorry for pointing out shades of gray in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. That’s what’s needed. The reason the conflict keeps going is because some of us allow ourselves to be convinced by the simplistic pictures that either the Israeli side or the Palestinian side is offering. Militaristic elites around the world, such as senators in Washington, wouldn’t have been able to keep the conflict going for so long if ordinary people like us didn’t support them by believing these simplistic pictures. So, I try to look sympathetically at the pictures that each side is presenting, but I also try to recognize when each side is distorting reality. Here are some of the one-sided pictures you hear about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, in no particular order:
1. The idea that Israel’s supporters control American policy related to Israel through lobbies like AIPAC.
2. The idea that Israel is a lone outpost of good, Western, democratic values in the Middle East and that supporting it will strengthen the cause of democratic rights worldwide.
3. The idea that the Israeli state is an imperialist colony founded largely by Europeans on land belonging to others, carrying on a tradition of aggression.
4. The idea of Jews’ heroic resistance to Nazism and anti-Semitism, moving from being an oppressed and massacred people to building a well-functioning, democratic society in the homeland they were exiled from.
5. The idea that Israeli treatment of Palestinians is a form of apartheid and should be responded to in the same way.
6. The idea that past generations of Jews in the Middle East were mistreated by Muslims, and that the majority of Muslims have never agreed to allow Jews equal rights.
7. The idea that Palestinians, as the people who are most discriminated against and deprived of human rights, deserve solidarity from others in their resistance to occupation and oppression.
8. The idea that some Arab traditions can sometimes conflict with some of the better values in Western society, and that this is a source of violence.
9. The idea that defining a country as a Jewish state is inherently undemocratic and has caused Israeli governments to be oppressive.
10. The idea that the primary strategy used by Palestinians is terrorism, which is bad.
11. The idea that Islamophobia plays a role in a lot of criticism of Palestinians.
12. The idea that anti-Semitism plays a role in a lot of criticism of Israel.
To me each of these points seems partly true, but only partly. Greenwald and Grim’s piece is based mainly on points #1 and #11, while failing to see the extent to which stuff like the current anti-boycott bill is driven by views like #2 and #4. The reason why the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has kept on going is that you keep seeing people insisting too much on some of these points while trying to minimize the truth of the other points. If you want to convince people, it helps to see where they’re coming from — and when I try to look at things honestly, it seems clear that each of these 12 points is partly true and none of them is fully true.
YAWN….How about US law that balances israhells budget..3 billion dollar payments every year in-spite of being illegal under the sygminton amendment…the attack on the US Liberty cover-up by all branches of the US govt…the examples of Zionist control the the US got are numerous and easily found IF you take off your star of David glasses and replace with red white and blue ones…
Hmm – so the country that jailed the winners of the Palestinian election, essentially cancelling it, are exemplars of democracy.
I fear you’re right about American attitudes, partly because they don’t know things like that.
The fact that these highly educated people are even considering this should scare everyone. Our country does not belong to the citizens anymore.
Most Americans (95% my estimate) do not care one whit what is done in their name unless it has some effect on them personally. Some proof: I attended all of the protests against the 2003 invasion of Iraq and there were only a few thousand people at any one of them while similar protests in Western Europe attracted millions of protesters even in countries that weren’t involved in the war. All major media outlets in the U.S. are owned by those with Israeli connections, most corporations are in the control of same so this bill will be passed and the opinion polls will show the overwhelming majority of Americans support Israel’s actions – again- just as in the case of the invasion of Gaza in 2014. Given the power dynamics here, I see no hope…..
I’ll boycott anything I wish whenever I want. AIPAC should be removed, and
screw Israel.
I would be curious to know how many of the bills sponsors hold dual citizenship with Israel. I know Chuck Schumer does. Imagine if dozens of senators today, holding dual Russian citizenship, attempted to pass a law making it illegal, with the chance of a life behind bars, for criticizing Putin or refusing to purchase Russian oil?
It would be across the front page of every paper in the nation and the lead story on every broadcast.
Cynthia McKinney, Made in American
http://www.stuartwilde.com/2013/02/brave-woman-ex-congress-woman-cynthia-mckinney
refused to bend over to a foreign country whic wants to influence US elections, occupy the political landscape, and rule Americans.
Fuck that noise. I’ll boycott whomever I please. As a matter of fact I’m boycotting congress and the senate. Useless lawmakers making useless laws that fatten their wallets while stepping on the people they are supposed to serve. Remove and replace the existing government. Worthless the lot of them.
The honest people at 4il.org claims “EVERY TWO MINUTES A NEW LIE ABOUT ISRAEL IS SHARED ONLINE You can put an end to this. Influence the conversation!”
Tsk, tsk…
Release the Trolls!
Sorry, people “claim” shit, not “claims” shit.
any elected official who proposes a law to prohibit freedom of expression, boycotting or protesting is guilty of violations of the Declaration of Independence, the spirit of the Constitution, and is guilty of Anti-Americanism and treason.
This is the last straw for me with the DemocRATS. I expect my senator, Saint Warren to sign on, after she is done assuming the NeoCON mantle of Gramps McCain. Israel owns our foreign policy, and our Congress. It’s an outrage. I resist in my own way, and don’t buy Israeli products when I have the choice.
Time for a general strike in the US, just shut it down. Our elected officials are all criminals, trying to have us join them with laws such as this proposed one.
I moved out of Lieu’s district last year and thank GOD I now have Maxine Waters “representing” (ha) me! I am SURE she would never jeopardize her oath of office by signing on to such a brazen un-Constitutional piece of legislation as this!!!
Especially if The Donald supports it!
(Cough, choke, gag….).
Except the Donald doesn’t.
Every Congressperson that supports this bill supports apartheid and murder.
Free speech is about to become quite costly.
Did GG even read the amendment and the associated law?
Promoting international boycotts against friendly US trade partners will be grounds for losing your Export License.
In other words, promoting certain activities that contravene US trade policy is grounds to lose your Export License.
That’s it.
The Intercept’s Greenwald and Grim got a detail wrong here. They approvingly quote a piece saying that the bill imposes a “minimum $250,000 civil penalty”. That’s wrong. $250,000 is not the minimum civil penalty, it’s the MAXIMUM civil penalty for relatively small violations (those violations where the amount of the potential trade with Israel is under $125,000). For violations involving potential trade valued at over $125,000, the maximum civil penalty is double the dollar value of potential trade. To their credit, Greenwald and Grim quote the actual text of the relevant law, it’s just that they fail to interpret it correctly when summarizing things for readers.
Still an awful bill, though.
So in other words, if you do a $2 million deal with France and then tweet “fuck Israel” on Twitter, you could get fined $4 million and get 20 years in prison.
Very cool!
You are right to point out that The Intercept incorrectly reported the “minimum $250,000 civil penalty”.
The bill is vile and loathsome, but it is important not to provide opponents with cheap talking points. I hope GG provides an update with a clarification of the financial penalty, especially since it is potentially far worse than he portrayed.
[email protected]@k free speech when it comes between Israel and it’s money?
Is it not our right as Americans to be able to protest whatever we want? It seems to me that if this law passes we as Americans have lost our freedom of speech and expression that is provided by the constitution of the United states of America.
This is insane. Apparently is is OK for Israel to interfere with the policies of the United States, but not Russia. (And there is no evidence that Russia did anything of the kind.) It is blatantly unconstitutional and abhorrent to even consider with its fascistic criminalization of protest. What is Israel that it considers itself above criticism? It is an apartheid state that has been butchering Palestinians for my entire lifetime. Far from being above criticism, it is allowed to get away with murder all the time.
“If you want to learn who rules over you, find out who you cannot criticize.”
Voltaire
Thanks. An apt quotation.
last year over 1000 israeli Civilians died from Terrorist attacks. including children so next time you say that israel is ”butchering Palestinians ” Remember that Palestinians (not all of them) BUTCHERING the Israelis.
Your comment shows a dangerously illinformed persepctive on this situation. Yes this law is absurd, but that is different then Israel, different than Israels ability to withstand criticism, or deserve it.
Both sides of this siutation are muderous. It is that simple. But people like you are making it worse for both sides.
Because quite simply, as my mom used to say, who cares who started it, who is going ot finish it. For this situation, which is bad on both sides, to end we need new thinking and new leadership which can hold the history in one hand but look at a future in the other. You and you kin like to call Israel apartide, so let’s refercen SA and how it handled the situation for a potential model.
The real issue with your illinformed position is that you and your kin do not really seem to understand history, just google “rand arc” and ask yourself, who stopped that from happening? Two answers:
1 – Arab states
2 – PA
Why? Because the people who rule the PA have no interest in ending this? Maybe, maybe not. But you have to ask.
Sending United States citizens to prison for constitutionally protected speech is not “absurd.” It is illegal. Maybe you should try your logic from that point onward and see how it turns out. Kafkaesque doesn’t really work when it comes to constitutional rights. Unless you’re on the side of the judges in “The Trial”.
How is her position ill-informed. It is not.
And this “both sides are to blame” and “we need new thinking and new leadership,” would be an okay answer. But every time Israel says “we need new thinking and new peace process” what Israel has meant over the years, is we need more time to take more land. If Israel stopped acquiring Palestinian land during the “peace process,” I’d be more than willing to believe that they’re acting in good faith. All Israel has ever done is act like thieves, and bribed the world’s largest police force, who just stand by and say “go ahead.”
Stop trying to sell your bullshit!! Nobody’s buying it anymore (other than the US Congress).
Then wait til they find these comments and arrest us for expressing ourselves freely, no matter the opinion. It is our constitutional right to do so.
Fuck the Neo-Conservative, Zionist government of Israel and the Apartheid state they have put the Palestinians in. The threat of Hezbollah has become an excuse to annex the rest of Palestine and treat the Palestinians as second class citizens. Israel has and continues to commit war crimes and covert operations against its very own allies. Why not revise the agreement with AIPAC and drop billions in aid if they don’t clean up their act?
Not anti Semitic but anti Zionist.
u.s.a. is Deep State minon.
namesake
Correct, and there is a huge difference.
Is there? Doesnt really seem so to me, care to elaborate?
Let’s try again. One is ethnic and based on irrational prejudices. The other is rational and based on human rights, not national rights. Nice try at a straw man argument.
You wouldn’t know it from reading the New York Times. And they run all the corporate media.
The political stranglehold that Israel has on the US never ceases to amaze me.
It has to do with America’s own past (and present) colonial policies and practices. The Denialism about that bleeds over to the Denialism about what Israel is, and in the ‘logic’ of such things, as long as the pretense that Israel is a civilized democracy can be maintained, so too can the pretense that the US supported civilized democracies rather than murderous racist expansionist oppressive regimes.
Keep checking back for the updates from all the “librul” Senators and Congresscritters, now that they have actually become aware of this BS bill. And…crickets.
Clearly a biased article. Look at the comments…if this represents the majority in our beloved country…the Jews are done. What blatantly skewed writing. Motivates to support Israel so much more. Thank you!
Thanks for this story. I live in OR, so I just sent an email to Ron Wyden asking that he withdraw his support.
Where can I buy my boycott israel tee shirt?
Absolutely disgusting.
No depth the zionist pigs won’t drop to. The most evil scum the world has ever seen.
When will the American people wake up…….. cause your government is completely in bed and controlled by the zionist money.
What an abhorent comment. One can think this is a truly vile piece of legislation and argue against Zionism, but this is some really fucked anti-Semitic shit.
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion much?
First Amendment is under attack by the government.
Free speech is in danger.
It is that simple.
The ACLU has come out in support of Linda Sarsour: https://twitter.com/aclu/status/767834455750868992?lang=en
They do not speak for me, their stated mission, or for American Civil Liberties.
Congress has a right to be afraid. The Germans, of all people, sold lthem 8 diesel submarines with missile tubes for their nuclear missiles. Why does Israel need nuclear-delivery submarines? Are they going to go after another American Navy ship like the USS Liberty with them next time? No, Israel is now a nuclear threat to every American within about 500 miles of a coastline, East and West. Be afraid. They’ve killed Americans for political gain in 1967 and they’ll do it again if it serves them.
Come get me Washington shill goons. We still have our private weapons…..
This article is about AIPACS unholy political activities, possibly at the directives of the Govt. of Israel, not about Tom Clancy’s imaginations.
Americans kill Americans for private gains, muslims kills muslims ditto reason, Catholics do too.
Whats a more likely explanation….either a handful a jews (about 2% of USA population) some how pulled the wool over countless smart powerful politicians for decades (strong bipartisan support for Isrsel isnt a new phenomenon). Making them blind to everything they believe in. Or maybe they realize the truth is really on the side of the Israelis. They understand that the Palestinian are not interested in peace. They never have been and never will be. They have rejected numerous attempt the Israeli government has made. So instead these politicians who in evey other recpect seem to be competent decided to support the only democracy in the middle east.
Come to think of it, I think Democracy Now! talked about this recently.
Every time I hear similar language on anti-boycott rhetoric, I cannot help but think that fighting this is a slam dunk defense of our First Amendment .
Why isn’t it?
When Gov Scott (R-FL) banned people in the admin from mentioning Climate Change – and I think the US Congress has something similar written into the prior/current Pentagon budget (unclear, obviously), why isn’t this a First Amendment slam dunk either?
Thank you very much for reporting on this Glenn. The only thing even scarier than this, is the fact that it is at least as likely that it would have also happened in a hypothetical Clinton Administration given the immense and bi-partisan influence the Israeli government wields in our government.
I hope the national Green Party also releases a statement condemning this assault on the Constitution and basic human decency. People need to know there is at least one political party that won’t allow malicious foreign entanglements to take precedence over the Constitution and International Law.
While I have freinds in elected positions across EU who are Greens, your comment actaully made me laugh, which given some of these comments, it kind of amazing.
Astounding. Have they lost their minds? Claire McCaskill? She’s usually very adept in looking at all sides of a complicated issue. It makes me wonder if the penalty provisions were secretly snuck in at the last moment. I’m hoping there’s a good explanation from my progressive Congresspeople!
Both Antisemitism and Zionism are racist ideologies. The former peddles hatred of Jews, the latter against everyone who seeks human rights for people other than Jews in the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. Now Zionists are seeking to expand their selective approach to the granting of universal rights under international law into civil societies internationally. Why would any country allow such insidious subversion of their sovereign rights?
My country has long been taken over by dual citizenship Zionists and Israeli agents who care less about my country and only want to steal our money. 40% of Israeli men “study the Talmud” so they qualify for full welfare and don’t have to work. Guess who pays for that?? We do….
Now who’s responsible for genocide?…..yeah.
That’s a ridiculous claim. Nobody studies their book. I bet most Jews have never read the Talmud. Just like most Christians haven’t read the Bible, and most Muslims haven’t read the Koran.
You might want to look that up. Seems to me I ran across various articles and/or documentaries with that little factoid although I don’t know about the percentages and I think it is with the most orthodox.
As far as others not reading the Bible or Koran, I know a lot of persons who do but they get their bible from children’s bibles or movies and don’t really know the book(s/translations). Of those who do they tend to rattle off quotes to make “points” without seeming to really see what the accounts are about, from rapes to genocides to all sorts of nasty business promoted as what the “good guys” do. They also don’t seem to understand ancient authorship or comparative literary methods of analysis. Anyway, I’m already wandering from where I started. Signing off.
You basically just proved his/her point. But your points are cogent as well. Billboard religion is the rule.
I support a boycott of the terrorist state of Israel now, and I will support one even if this law is passed. This is a complete violation of free speech, and one of the co-sponsors is Joe Donnelly, the Democratic senator from Indiana, someone who I did not vote for in my first ever election because I knew how conservative he was. I can’t believe this is even a thing. What the hell is free speech if we can’t use it to protest against what we don’t like? Every single one of these co-sponsors needs to go, period.
elected officials who propose unamerican (NAZI STYLED) laws need to be charged with TREASON.
This bill sounds ludicrous, unconstitutional. But I wonder: if U.S. businesses are free to boycott Israel, is it ok for them to also boycott customers based on race or creed or sexuality? I don’t think businesses should be allowed to discriminate against homosexuals or muslims, but couldn’t they fall back on this free-speech argument as well?
Maybe the reason for such unheard of support is because the people in power understand the true nature of this conflict. That the Palestinian have no interest in ever making peace. Which is clearly evident from the numerous attempt the Israeli government has made. Even the champion of the left President Obama signed an unprecedented aide package to Israel befire he left office.
Richard Blumenthal a liberal?
Kirsten Gillibrand? They are traditional Dems. I like Sen G, but cannot tolerate the good man from CT.
Oh, good. I get to rip Adam Schiff’s head off. I will also say something to Ted Lieu, because he has been so clever on Twitter.
Even for “the bravest who avoid controversies relating to Israel.” Avoiding controversies is not bravery; it is the definition of cowardice for organizations defending civil rights, etc.
And the Ethics Advisor, Mr. Shaub, of OGE, on his way out the door yesterday, said “I don’t like the fair-weather friends who are supportive of the ethics program only as a political tool against this present administration.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/17/us/politics/walter-shaub-ethics.html?hp&target=comments
Knee-jerk reactions to AIPAC are a stupid way to make laws.
WOW.
Except for your mischaracterization of most of the Democrats mentioned here, this is a great newsy article, GG and RG.
What was the mischaracterization?
“What was the mischaracterization?”
It still left one with the vague impression they were remotely related to human beings, as opposed to their actual arising as a multi-cell pseudo-vertebrate extension of treponema pallidum.
as opposed to their actual arising as a multi-cell pseudo-vertebrate extension of treponema pallidum.
LOL! Haven’t heard treponema pallidum since my long-gone years as a clinical microbiologist. It does explain the seeming mindlessness, though. Apparently they’re tertiary. :-)
“…the Senate’s more liberal members, such as Ron Wyden of Oregon, Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, and Maria Cantwell of Washington.”
Ron Wyden, who, when I watched him Chair the Senate Finance Committee, was just terrific on tax extenders. https://www.finance.senate.gov/chairmans-news/wyden-statement-on-tax-extenders
I’ll cut him a little slack on certain key issues.
The others? How?
besides boycotting being a freedom of speech issue,
BOYCOTTING IS A RIGHT TO NOT BE FORCED TO PAY AN EXTORTION MOB.
The criminal organization that runs the “kill palestinians to steal their land” now wants to imprison those who refuse to provide them monetary suport for their genocidal operation.
What are we, the israeli nazi state? Is israel wanting to establish a new form of imprisonment CONCENTRATION CAMPS?
Keep us the readers abreast as this will be one of those interesting topics in the near future…Money power influence and policy
How much of the monies that we give to Israel, are in turn given to AIPAC?
?According to the CSO, 32 million more Americans would be uninsured by 2026 under the current Senate measure heading to a vote next week. ?
?And yet, in September 2016, the U.S. finalized a $38 billion package of military aid for Israel over the next 10 years. That’s $437,000 for every citizen of Israel for the next TEN years. ?
?But, sadly, the U.S. has no money to support and strengthen the Affordable Care Act. Now, with Cardin’s bill, we get punished for free speech. “Make America Great Again,” indeed. ?
Might want to check your figures.
President Obama set up this military aid package with Israel that supplies it with American made weapons worth 38 billion total over the next 10 years, NOT per year.
Divided by 8.4 million, (the population of Israel) that is $4,520 per citizen of Israel not $437,000 as you claim.
For each of the next 10 years that is $452 per citizen of Israel. About enough to pay for part of a rifle and maybe a few boxes of bullets.
And all of this is in the form of weapons made in the USA employing thousands of Americans. People like Noam Chomsky argue this is really more of a US government subsidy to the US military weapons manufacturing industry and it’s employees as much as it is to Israel.
In any event the US has subsidized and continues to this day to subsidize the military defense of three of the richest countries on earth, namely Japan, South Korea, and Germany through NATO since the end of WW2 until today to the tune of trillions of dollars.
this type of legislation will not win Israel or any of the bills sponsors any good will, while i am a supporter of Israel, i do not support the continued occupation of Palestine or the expansion of settlements
There must be millions who feel the same as you, but their voices are barely heard, if at all. It’s sad that such a reasonable position provokes the blind ire of U.S. and Israeli politicians and supporters. Thanks for stating your position.
thanks, just like you we arn’t all trumpanistas
Horrible legislation!
FYI – Jason Chaffetz is no longer a member of the House:
“As in the Senate, AIPAC has assembled an impressive ideological diversity among supporters, predictably including many of the most right-wing House members — Jason Chaffetz, Liz Cheney, Peter King — along with the second-ranking Democrat in the House, Steny Hoyer.”
This just proves that ALL Congresspeople are scared to death of AIPAC. Even Bernie Sanders refuses to publically denounce Israel’s illegal and immoral Gaza Occupation. It’s no secret that Chuck Schumer really wants to keep all Palestinians in their place forever. Why?
Is it because he actually thinks this is helping the situation?
Is it because he just wants all Palestinians to shut up and die, once and for all?
Is it because he hates all dark skinned people with “Muslim sounding names”? Only white Jews like him are okay?
When people are elected to the House, they’re required to sign a loyalty oath to Israel. If you refuse (remember Cynthis McKinney?), AIPAC will destroy your career. If you try calling various Congressional offices to see if this is true, the office staff will either hang up on you, put you on hold and never come back, or just lie to your face.
Israel is an apartheid state.
Israel is murdering innocent Palestinians, and getting away with it.
It’s legal under Israeli law to torture Palestinian detainees.
Now if this ridiculous law passes, am I guilty of 3 felonies for the above 3 sentences? Is the Intercept going to give the DOJ my IP address to track me down with and bust me? How many sponsors of this bill just want all Palestinians to just die?
All good questions, Tom.
“It’s no secret that Chuck Schumer really wants to keep all Palestinians in their place forever. Why?”
Because Chuck is vicious, war-mongering, plutocrat-embracing bigot, but I’d go with your option #2….
How much did NitWitYahoo pay you to write this tripe?
” It would also broaden the law to include penalties for simply requesting information about such boycotts” (from the ACLU letter)
I feel bad for the poor soul assigned to write an article about such boycotts.
Beach Boy Chris Christie already passed anti BDS legislation in N.J. in August 2016 – nine other U.S states enacted similar – you just can’t criticize Israel at all – just ask Norman Finklestein
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.737212?v=5B9BB9E66ACCF62EBFFB6F90E01393FC
http://m.jewishvoicesnj.org/news/2016-08-31/Local_News/AntiBDS_bill_is_now_law_as_Gov_Christie_signs_on.html
Any citizen should be able to boycott and protest any country, corporation or person they wish.
Our government is making it illegal to protest or boycott. Has been ongoing for some years now.
These are absolutely horrible people behind these authoritarian campaigns. They be sent to jail or exiled.
AIPAC is an anti-constitutional organization, the proof is right here. Any senator or representative who signs onto this is betraying their oath of office, betraying the people of this country, and should be voted out of office and prosecuted.
Even Ron Wyden. OMG, what a complete fraud.
Good luck getting that one past the Supreme Court. Remember, the SCOTUS has already said with Citizens United that businesses are people. You pas this law the government is shutting down freedom of speech and freedom of expression.
You think that the backwards ‘reasoning’ that went into CU is less convoluted than the backwards ‘reasoning’ necessary to declare this sort of law constitutional?
“Give me Liberty or give me Death!”
And Liberty’s name is NOT Zionist Israel!
“The bill’s co-sponsors include the senior Democrat in Washington, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer”
wow, now there’s a surprise.
This is scary stuff. I remember when they tried to do something similar after 9/11. There was support for a bill that would have made it a criminal penalty to say that 9/11 was an inside job and that the buildings didn’t collapse from fire.
All limits on free speech should be eliminated…….no hate speech laws, no yelling “fire” in a crowded theater laws…..none. It even bothers me when people go after terrorist propaganda. In America, people should have a right to say what they want. Let people say what they want to say and then debate them. Don’t try to silence people with who you disagree like some Nazi dictator. Point out why you disagree with them. It’s how democracy is supposed to work.
Obviously, Israel is running America. Congressmen and Senators are bought and paid for. Rothschilds > Isreal > Deep State in America > Congress > Media. It’s all been bought and paid for for decades.
I’m glad to hear you speak up for free speech. I’m not sure if you are aware that there never really was a case of people yelling fire in a crowded theater that led to that phrase. It is something the Supreme Court pulled out of its ass when trying to explain why they were going to put a Presidential candidate with a million votes in jail for opposing the military draft. Every time there is a real panic in a real theater, there are always easy, lame excuses. Some kids stampeded one by yelling “Black Hand!” back in the day when they were the big bugaboo, and they said they thought they saw some shady figures lounging about. In other cases people said they heard someone yell “fire” first, or smelled smoke. Maybe in this age of decreasing tobacco popularity that might finally start to arouse skepticism, but in the past it never did. So this was always bullshit.
The tough part here is managing a now *justified* fear of sinister Israeli influence versus bugaboos from ancient anti-Semitic writings. Just as McCarthy was not really the one we wanted to go to to defend us from the Soviets, a guy with tracts about the Rothschilds might not really be on the ball. The only tool I can think of presently is thorough, solid sourcing. If you want to convince me of a series like that, you have to cite exactly what made you think that. And now, I may have to look at it.
..and the real tough part of the tough part is filtering the real bugaboos from the planted/leaked bugaboos and the suppressed bugaboos, pejoratively known as “conspiracy theories “. Another tuffy is the phraseology used.
“Anti-Semitism” should be patented and copyrighted by the Zionist since they conflate anti-semitism with criticism of Israel.
Perhaps it’s up to those beholden to define. The “I know it when I see it” strategy.
Your position is ridiculous and has no justification. Please explain why people should be allowed to yell “fire” in a crowded theater or be allowed to use any other speech that harms others. Same with hate speech. You obviously don’t know the reason that speech was protected in the first place — unfortunately, you’re in the majority on that one — which was to get all POLITICAL views on the table so that an informed decision could be made. Hate speech, lies, and yelling “fire” in a crowded theater do not contribute to that in any way.
“Hate speech” most assuredly IS political speech, and this article is a perfect example of how that is true.
Generally speaking, some people think they can identify and punish “bad” speech. But they cannot. As I said above, a person who maliciously yells “fire” in a theater will almost certainly avoid any prosecution. But what if the theater really is on fire, and a hundred people each put off yelling “fire” because they don’t want to be the ones put in jail if they are wrong? No, the only real cure for theaters is precisely what our country did – mandate that they have enough exits to withstand a panic, and have the fire inspector go over that and every part of the layout carefully. And if push comes to shove and some theaters are slipping through the cracks, it’s better to have a panic in a theater that is NOT on fire, even if a few people die, than to have the same crush of bodies and need for emergency medical help in a theater that is actually burning down.
The situation with “hate speech” could not be more plain: in Europe, where hate speech was banned, you see everywhere the racists on the rise. But in the U.S., where anyone can shout racist epithets at will, we have a public debate over whether it is “racist” to ban people from immigrating from countries we are at war with! Does banning hate speech work? Not at all! Can you justify putting a perfectly innocent person who simply said something obnoxious into a cage to “protect” society from his nasty thoughts, when it doesn’t even work? Not at all! Do we want people like Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders to be set up as heroes in our country when they withstand the persecutions of mindless censors? Not at all! Do we want frustrated racists to weigh their options between speaking out and risking a long prison sentence versus risking the same sentence for stopping their car by a jogger with a certain countenance and beating him up with a steel club? Not at all!
And as for banning lies… what story in the news today is neither a lie nor said, by liars, to be one? You might as well ban journalism while you are at it — that certainly is the intended effect.
I’ll dial it back a bit. This is just an online comment, I didn’t put a lot of thought into it. Let me clarify and correct my position: Lies, hate speech, and commercial speech should not be constitutionally PROTECTED. Whether they should be allowed is another issue that I don’t want to discuss further here.
I don’t at all agree with you that hate speech is political speech — how so? Your statement that this article is an example of how hate speech is also political speech is totally unsupported. You want to explain that one?
“Hate” is in the eye of the beholder, and the motive for this bill is that BDS is not “politics” on behalf of non-apartheid social organization, but “hate” of Israel or Jews in general.
As for protecting freedom of speech constitutionally versus just not banning it, there is good evidence that legislatures move willy-nilly against expression when they can, without apparent weighing of the consequences. Because attacking people for what they say is a criminal, evil action that is not going to be done fairly, but under conditions of stealth and corruption, extra effort needs to be taken to prohibit actions that are wrong, not just today or in some case, but altogether on a theoretical basis.
I must emphasize that this extends even to the cherished exceptions that have been allowed to fester on, like libel, which are used to attack some individuals while yet failing, as always, to genuinely protect the vast majority of people from bullying (like the kid CNN went after over the “pro wrestling” cartoon). Any protection that mechanism might provide comes at the cost of making a larger number of vilifications seem more credible, which are issued from behind a proper wall of lawyers and fine speech. It is better to drop the act and allow always the possibility that people are lying.
There is no such imposition against freedom of speech that I will not argue to abolish.
Talk about failure to communicate! I strongly oppose this legislation, so we agree on that.
However, there are far more important things than speech, like the natural environment and all that lives there, people’s lives and health/well-being, etc. So we will have to agree to disagree about protecting anything but political speech, which BTW this bill is trying to outlaw. BDS is not hate speech under any reasonable and even halfway objective analysis.
As to defamation laws like libel and slander: These laws give people remedies for lies told about them that have cost them substantial amounts of money. While I’m no fan of large corporations using these laws — I think that corporations and other forms of rich people avoiding liability and taxes should be abolished, but that’s another issue — how would you like it if your financial life were ruined by someone publishing lies about you? There is a very good reason that these laws exist.
As to allowing lying: The worst and most harmful lies are told by the rich, to the great detriment of the Earth and everything that lives here, including everyone who’s not rich. I will NEVER support allowing this crap, and there’s no excuse for it.
There are abuses with everything. But just saying that prohibitions against lying and hate speech are subject to abuses is no reason not to implement those prohibitions. Much better to remove constitutional protections for lying, commercial speech, and hate speech, then work on dealing with them in an equitable manner, than to allow this speech, which is more harmful than any prohibitions could ever be.
A War on Lies is like a War on Drugs. Just because something is “bad” doesn’t mean you can make it illegal.
A redress for people who have been “cost a great deal of money” is a redress for the rich. The poor need not apply; you cannot slander the homeless. Now to be sure, this is not the *only* way that laws are unjust to the poor (we need only recall O.J. Simpson being told that because he had “community support and a secure living arrangement” that he would be released 24 years early!). But the effect of giving the rich special rights not to be talked about are severe because they trickle down one way and the next. What is the use of “protecting the environment” if you can’t say who is destroying it and how?
I didn’t say that defamation laws were only for people who were “cost a great deal of money,” and that’s simply not true. Anyone except the absolute poorest in this society can have their financial lives ruined. You didn’t answer my question: How would you feel and what do you think should be the remedy if someone were to ruin you financially by publishing lies about you? It doesn’t matter what the level of your financial life had been. I know that I certainly would appreciate the right to sue anyone who did this to me, and I’m working class at best.
If you live in a society with libel laws and the press slanders you, to be the one person who doesn’t use them makes you look weak, and this society has little tolerance for that. But if you live in a society with no libel laws and the press vilifies you, then nobody believes them!
Case in point: think of how many people “had their lives ruined” over things said on Usenet and BBSes. Nobody. Because there were no censors to make anything official.
Now compare how many people suffer grievously because of things said on Facebook and Twitter. Because the company and the censors over it patrol the site and intimidate the trolls away from shouting out their endless wall of protective background noise. And gullible people start to *believe* what they read then.
The other thing to bear in mind is that a person’s life is NEVER financially ruined by some guy writing stuff. It is ruined by corporations whose minds SHOULD be on your work performance and qualifications, or the quality of your income and collateral, or whatever you have in mind, but are run by little tin gods with massively bloated salaries who spend their time obsessing over what “might look bad”, themselves and their own ham-handed actions excluded of course. THEY are the ones who need to be blamed!
Jeff D. So if your poor but work hard and get rich then you are a lier and there for a bad person. Living the American dream to make it big means you are a bad person and exploit the poor?
You really are a true communist. You should start looking for a country with a constitution more to your political views. The constitution of the US is diametrically opposed to many of your ideals.
“This is just an online comment, I didn’t put a lot of thought into it. Let me clarify and correct my position:”
ROTFLMAS. This should be your tag line….. BWTFDIK
This bill is a threat to democracy that the Supreme Court ought to be able to put down. But it is a much more imminent threat to Jews in the United States.
Radical right-wingers know that there was a boycott, still to some extent ongoing AFAIK, against North Carolina over the transgender bathroom issue. Especially if they live in North Carolina. The moment they see prosecutions under this bill, they are going to say what I have to say myself: that residents of Israel have more rights in the U.S. Senate than residents of North Carolina. And of course the residents of Michigan, watching their cities slip unhelped into bankruptcy, and the residents of Puerto Rico, watching their children be born with shrunken heads while the neocons punish them for having a debt issue and no right even to bankruptcy … they have long looked at the enormous per capita outlays to Israel with envious eyes.
But when the right to freedom of speech is called into doubt, that breaks every bound of human behavior. Because if people aren’t allowed to speak … what will they do? What should they do? The moment that fundamental underpinning of civilization is broken, even overt, stupid, old fashioned anti-Semitism is no longer out of bounds, because there are no bounds. Yesterday I would have looked at Benjamin Cardin and seen a Democrat in Congress. Today I look at him and see a Jew in Congress. And tomorrow … tomorrow people are going to be on search committees looking for university presidents, on HR staff at sweatshop corporations, and all shades in between. And will they be looking at a qualified candidate in front of them who can serve them loyally, or a Jew in front of them who is an agent of an Israeli government lobby no more trustworthy than the Russians? That’s where you get when you go down this dark path – it can’t be helped, because how are you going to talk it out? How are you going to be a brotherhood of American citizens when one is a master the other cannot speak against?
And if all these things occur to my mind, it should be no surprise at all if darker things come from the depths of American fascism and the loony right. An initiative like this is going to sow stupid, brutal acts of terrorism like Johnny Appleseed. Even if it fails there will probably be casualties. This thing will –now– be going straight to neo-Nazi talking points for the next hundred years, and every one of them doing some wretched thing might cite it when they talk about the “need to do something”.
For this reason, it is imperative for the American Jewish community to take resolute action to rein in AIPAC and turn its focus back to reasonable forms of strategic alliance which, if they involve any invasions of basic human liberty, at least keep them decently confined to the occupied territories.
Keep this shit up and Russia will soon be more free than the US.
It’s on like Donkey Kong!
Personally, l would like to see all those boycotting Israel to be given life sentences with no parole. While this response is based on emotions and feelings, intellectually, l see such a law as a bad idea that should not be passed for several reasons.
I would like to know what businesses openly boycott Israel so that l can avoid giving them my business.
Backlash from this will embolden those who are anti-Semitic and antl-Israel. Why give them a greater platform to spread their hate?
Once we start limiting freedom, even for the best of reasons, where will it go from there? Will it be illegal to be a homosexual? Will it be illegal to be Muslim? Will it be illegal to belong to a certain political party? Will it be illegal to live in a neighborhood not designated to your skin color? Will it go even further than that?
While I have my personal viewpoint on the issue of boycotting Israel, l can’t support making any viewpoint, even one opposed to mine, illegal. This goes against the founding principles of America
You are conflating anti-Semitic people with people who oppose the right-wing, terrorist government of Israel. You’re not exactly making me feel any more gracious towards the country by accusing me of hating Jews when it’s their government policy of terrorism against the Palestinians I dislike, not the fact that they’re Jews.
“Personally, l would like to see all those boycotting Israel to be given life sentences with no parole”
Wow. Did you feel the same way about those who protested Apartheid in South Africa? Is it not appropriate to apply sanctions to North Korea, or Iran, or Russia? Or is Israel somehow “Special”?
To quote the Church Lady, “Isn’t that Special”? Or, “Could it be… Satan?”
It’s amazing how there is never any punishment for our Representatives and Senators when they knowingly support an unconstitutional bill. None of these clowns won’t even have to worry about being voted out of office over this! They will have the complete support of AIPAC, an organization that doesn’t even have to register with the State Department as an agent of a foreign government.
You know exactly why. There are too many people who only care about 1 or 2 issues. I live in Indiana. If a politician said he was going to kidnap your children and eat them, but he was a republican, he would win over the democrat that said he would fight for jobs and fair wages. Just scream god, guns, gays, and abortion and you’re a shoo in.
What can I say?
BOYCOTT ALL ISRAELI GOODS, SERVICES AND INSTITUTIONS UNTIL ISRAELI RACISM, TERRORISM, COLONIALISM, MASS MURDER, ETHNIC CLEANSING AND APARTHEID ARE ENDED AND THE HUMAN RIGHTS OF THE PALESTINIAN REFUGEES ARE HONORED.
Oh, yeah, and F–K ANYONE CONNECTED WITH THIS RACIST BS.
The only ones hurting the Palestinian people are their own terrorist leaders
Definition of a terrorist: Someone who has a bomb, but no airforce.
Tell that to the Palestinians living in camps since 1949.
Says the bigot who “would like to see all those boycotting Israel to be given life sentences with no parole.”
Google “rand arc” as I’ve mentioned here a couple times and maybe your specpective will change on who exactly is to blame for this situation.
It sounds like you’re saying that the people on the wrong side of the prison wall are to blame. You might want to think that one through.
reminds me way too much of german justifications for putting jews and others in concentration camps. “it’s their own fault for…(x). they forced us to do it.”
The bill’s authors are anti-semites by their own definition, because they could have taken an even more reactionary position on Israel and the Palestinians, and they didn’t.
I bow down to a masterful zinger.
The sad thing is that the supporters of the Apartheid regime actually do approach that line, that anything less than support for the completion of the ethnic cleansing of Palestines from Palestine is racism against Jews,
The free speech aspect of this is troubling, as are the proposed penalties. I think it would be easier to simply send those in favor of BDS to live in Gaza.
I prefer the reverse, send all the zionists and their lapdogs over to Israel, and build a huge wall around Israel and let them rot in their own vile hatred.
don’t worry guys the people who are constantly
worried about threats to free speech on campus
will surely not stay silent about this!
Let’s see … who else in history practiced censorship? …
… what other countries have practiced silencing opposition? …
… I believe that Germany in its most shameful and horrible point in history did …
… wonder how that turned out? …
Alien & Sedition Acts of 1798 (The Sedition Act expired in 1800, however the Alien Act continued on and was used by FDR to imprison American Japanese during WW2)
Sedition Act of 1918 (Repealed in 1920 following the end of WW1)
The “Father of Public Relations and Propaganda” was Edward Bernays; an Austrian born American. Goebbels learned propaganda from Bernays.
If you want to go further back in history, there is censorship everywhere: the Roman Empire under several emperors, the Catholic Church system before the Reformation (Galileo as one of many examples) and during the Counter-Reformation.
Just for a little comic relief somewhat related to Israel, “the name of the LORD” has been censored; such that there are arguments/debates of the pronunciation of the tetragrammaton.
Thank you! It is sad to see so many comments from people who know NOTHING about history, including that of the United States.
To quote the singer Jim Lauderdale, “There is no right way to be wrong”
Thanks Glenn and Ryan.
Today Andrea Mitchell had Jane “waddling on over to interfere in the Aipac espionage investigation” Harman on to discuss the Russian issue. An Israeli agent like Harman onto discuss how Russia has undermined U.S. elections and national security. Harman surely knows what that is all about.Spy Story: Harman, Saban, and AIPAC | The Nation
https://www.thenation.com/article/spy-story-harman-saban-and-aipac/
What is up with Andrea and Lawrence O’Donnell recycling so many of the Iraq war hawks on to discuss the Russian issue. Frum, Hadley, Kristol. These guys are complicit in crimes against humanity. Is there a shortage of so called experts who have any credibility on foreign policy issues?
I would support outlawing businesses from supporting the boycott but not individuals. I would support fining businesses on the grounds of it being discriminating to do such a boycott. Individuals I won’t hold as high a standard to. Personally, I don’t see much difference in this as outlawing churches from supporting political parties which is something I don’t support really but if your going to regulate religion by all means, you should regulate businesses even more.
So, you must think your handle is a clever joke then?
”Everyone has a plan, ’til they get punched in the mouth” –Mike Tyson
At least there’s always one country’s best interests interests that Congress can unite to defend.
That’s cold.
Fascinating documentary of an Israeli soccer team when they try to integrate Muslim players.
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/forever-pure/
Thank you very much Mr Greenwald and Mr Grim for this very important write up.
The bill is a bloody outrage….. IF it does pass ( total ignorance of the supporters of what CONSTITUTION means ), the jails will fill up with disobedient civilians….. and if the elected officials have been afraid to face their constituents because of ACA mess, they will not be allowed to leave their offices with sit-ins and other protests….
It will make other citizens not involved in I/P conflict realise, their freedom to act for THEIR important causes may be the next target!
Things are no better in Israel….secrecy, hasbara…
“”One of the principles for success is keeping our methods of action secret…Since most of the ministry’s actions are not of the ministry, but through bodies around the world who do not want to expose their connection with the state,” Erdan stated”
http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=778181
The High Court recently ruled that the UK Government were unlawful in introducing restrictions on ethical boycotts.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-acted-unlawfully-israeli-pension-funds-investment-boycott-restrictions-high-court-a7803146.html
And a court in Scotland ruled that protesting against Apartheid isn’t a racist act, as the British version of AIPAC claims.
Legislating against BDS is a racist act. That’s the real issue.
“The bill’s co-sponsors include the senior Democrat in Washington, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, his New York colleague Kirsten Gillibrand, and several of the Senate’s more liberal members, such as Ron Wyden of Oregon, Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut and Maria Cantwell of Washington. ”
_______
Wyden is writing his way into retirement. He might get to spend more time with the kids, browsing The Strand.
Oregon won’t vote for such a man to represent progressive Constitutional values.
Cantwell’s days are numbered as well.
Both Wyden , Cantwell (and Patty Murray) voted to fast track the TPP (now Trump has those powers) and both Cantwell and Murray voted AGAINST that Bill Bernie Sanders co-sponsored that would LOWER prescription drug costs.
Now Cantwell and Wyden support this legislation.
They all need to face a Primary challenger from the ‘left’.
Can’t wait for Jay Sekulow’s ecstatic reaction.
Why are there so many American gentile politicians with dual citizenship with Israel. I have been friends with so many smart, endearing Jews in music and my personal life…many were WWII vets, some Holocaust survivors, one spy in the resistance…none became Israeli citizens. They were already Jewish…enough already!!
This bill, however you feel about the politics, is the proverbial “bridge too far”. I’ll go further…I don’t think it’s Jewish in character. Who’s really pushing it??? I mean really, really? It’s a desperately authoritarian proposal
I believe Voltaire has been credited with this quote:
“You will know who truly rules you when you are told who you are not allowed to criticize.”
I support the BDS movement just as I supported the divestment moves made against South Africa by California when George Deukmajian (a Republican!) was governor.
The Nestle boycott against “baby bottle disease” worked back in the day and the boycotts against South African apartheid worked as well.
The anti-Israel BDS movement needs to perhaps sharpen the boycott down to the top 20 products not to buy and start cranking out t-shirts with that information on one side and this new fascist un-Constitutional legislation and the names of the members of Congress supporting it on the other.
They are all traitors to their oaths of office and should be bounced out in 2018 or at their next re-election.
Hoffer’s keen perception of human behavior would rival the most astute psychologist. This is what he says of Trump followers and it seems Democrats and Republicans suffer from the same delusion regarding Israel.
“It is the true believer’s ability to “shut his eyes and stop his ears” to facts that do not deserve to be either seen or heard which is the source of his unequaled fortitude and constancy. He cannot be frightened by danger nor disheartened by obstacles nor baffled by contradictions because he denies their existence”
Hoffer, Eric. The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements
This small book seems to be undergoing a revival. It is truly brilliant. Read it!
Is thIS RAELly true? Where are all the ‘celebrated’ defenders of our Constitutional rights? Abraham, Martin, John, Bobby? NRA?
This is complete and utter Bullshit.
Freedom of speech torpedoed
Zionists torpedo another of the US’s Liberty
Nice Pun :)
They think they can outlaw free speech one issue at a time… If this happens, the road to open authoritarianism is set.
Excuse me! But, Israel is just Israel another SEPARATE Nation treating it’s Palestinian citizens and neighbors like they have since Britain, France and the US forced them to Palestine because THEY didn’t want them in their Countries. This Evangelical religious love for Israel is once against shoving their sick religious beliefs into Our Civil Law and has no place there. It’s time to Heavily Tax all religious institutions and corporations to insure they are kept OUT of Politics, Law Making and Public Forums!
Actually I wouldn’t want to tax the churches and make it official that they have representation in the government, regardless of existing corruption.
Religion is just big business and should be taxed. It already has a large and illegitimate influence over politicians, so taxing it would’t change anything in that regard.
Yes, AIPAC is sooooo Evangelical isn’t it! Pull your head out …
I’d just like to point out that the ONLY group of Christians not to formally appeal to their fellow Christians around the world for help in their struggle against the greatest threat to Christianity in the Holy Land, the Israeli regime and it’s policy of violent oppression and rights denial were the Evangelicals.
The first time I felt something was off about our politicians was during the Republican primaries. I remember listening to Ted Cruz spouting off his talking points and repeatedly advocating for Israel. “Israel is our greatest ally”, “We will stand by Israel”, and “Strengthen relations with Israel”. It really bothered me that he repeated his bit about Israel so many times. I remember thinking that just listening to him speak, a person would not be able to tell that he was a US Senator. Cruz sounded more like a paid lobbyist for Israel instead. Finally I decided to count the number of times he said the word “Israel” vs “America” and true to my suspicions, he said “Israel” more than 5 times as much as “America”. That’s when I started to really look into what was going on.
The Israel lobby has blocked free speech on this issue for decades..via msm outlets. Now this. Thanks for this update
Today Andrea Mitchell had Jane Harman on as an intelligence analyst. You know the Jane Harman who did what she could to shut down the federal investigation into Aipac/espionage
Alarming the people that Andrea Mitchell brings on to talk about intelligence issues. She has had so many Iraq warmongers on who pushed, cherry picked false intelligence to promote the invasion. Bill Kristol, David Frum, Stephen Hadley. Today she had Jane “waddled” on over to interfere in a federal investigation of Aipac Harman on to discuss the Russian issue. Jane who conspired with Israeli agents to successfully interfere and shut down the Aipac espionage investigation into Weissman and Rosen’s access to national security classified intelligence. What a strange guest to choose to have on to talk about this issue. Harman and team were successful at shutting down that investigation. Obama and Holder dismissed the upcoming trial after they came into office. No influence of the foreign nation of Israel there….choke. Spy Story: Harman, Saban, and AIPAC | The Nation
https://www.thenation.com/…/spy-story-harman-saban-and…/
Yeah, OK, but anyone can “propose” a bill. Just like anyone can be “sued” for anything. Doesn’t mean either are going to be successful.
“The world” was also perfectly fine with slavery, classism, segregation, and persecution of Jews, so why is that supposed to be some sort of Gold Standard for behavior?
They have more than half the House as co-sponsors, and close to half of the Senate.
And their plan was to get it passed by having as little light shined on it as possible. That’s why the drafting was designed to obscure what it does. We’ll see what they do now that the lights are on.
Some lights are more equal than others. You are so unfucked, Glenn. I heard that word, unfucked when I was a kid in the seventies. My older Brother and Sister used o talk about unfucked perspectives. Man, I wish what I wish but believe me, Brother I wish we could stop this Matrix.
Glenn “And their plan was to get it passed by having as little light shined on it as possible”
Glenn again thanks for being part of the team to shine the light.
Maddow, O’Donnell, Reid, Matthews, Hayes etc all silent…as usual on this issue. Silence on Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen. Thank goodness for Engels pieces. Wish MSNBC would replay his “On Assignment ” pieces over and over again. Americans need to see what their government and military are doing.
The only things learned from Vietnam are…get rid of draft and do not show Americans what is really happening. More of a media bubble than ever before in so many ways as to the brutality and human suffering caused by U.S. foreign policy decisions..invasions, arming unknown rebels etc. Human disasters and the majority of the American public have their heads up where the sun does not shine just the way those in power so desire. Criminal
Figures greenwald is the auther of this piece of sh***t. Antisemites on the attack supporting palestinian terrorists and murderers.. Why am I not surprised
Thanks again Glenn and Ryan!
BDS, while imperfect, appears to be the only viable response to continued Israeli intransigence.
We cannot lecture the dispossessed about non-violent alternatives, and then undermine them we they actually undertake such efforts.
“I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the undieing support of Israel, for which it stands”.
One can safely say that America became “exceptional” so that it could be linked with “the chosen people” against all the rest of humanity. It’s like a badly written Marvel Comics movie. Fortunately, the majority of individuals in both countries don’t believe this. But now the Democratic party has joined the Republican party as a cheerleader for this same goal of eternal justice. Not exactly a “representative democracy”.
So when do the Jews get kicked out of the U.S.? Historically speaking, they’ve been kicked out of everywhere else on the planet.
This isn’t about kicking Jews out of the US. It’s about maintaining our First Amendment rights to protest.
If this had anything to do with religion then Boycott Israel activists likely would be protected by Religious Freedom laws in some of the states.
Obviously, this has nothing to do with religion but is all about human rights. Human rights for the Palestinians as well as for Americans.
When I rebuild the temple, it will do it in Washington and not Jerusalem so that you will never forget that you won’t be kicked out of the United States.
Respectfully,
Nabucco.
your attempt at muddying the waters was a failure, person who just made up a new sock handle
The only thing Democrats and Republicans can agree on is surrendering our soverignty to Israel.
A law making it illegal to boycott Israel? Is this still the United States of America? Why should a US citizen be denied the right to boycott anybody, any company it chooses? The next thing these numbskulls will try to do is to make everybody by Israel products. These anti-American pro-Israel representatives need to be replaced with American citizens; Israel be damned.
Israel is a colony and a significant part of US foreign policy. To oppose this long-held US foreign policy is treason, in a way. If you look at the US as an imperialist colony, the idea of outlawing opposition to policy makes complete sense.
6th paragraph from the bottom ends in –
“…to the penalty provisions of that law, which state: “
Aside from the egregious content of the bill, this article makes clear how broken Congress is in that so many of the bill’s co-sponsors seem to have little idea what it contains.
Hey, why didn’t Reagan think of this when American citizens were demanding boycotts against companies that enriched South Africa? After all, he did support South Africa in the same way that AIPAC supports Israel. Remember what Mark Twain said: “history doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
Neoliberals and neocons are united in their enthusiasm for stifling speech that runs counter to their doctrine.
I only wish Mr. Greenwald would have speculated a bit more about the potential future impact of this bill should it become law. One should remember that the use of laws like this to prosecute and penalize citizens is seldom limited to the intent of the original legislation.
Thank you for writing about this. How can we get Israel out of our Governments? They get 3 billion a year for the US.
To put things into perspective, Democracy Now is reporting that Israel is limiting electricity in Gaza to two hours per day. Here’s a video from tonight’s (7-19) show.
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/7/19/unlivable_gaza_on_verge_of_collapse
Here is a bit from the transcript of the show…
“AMY GOODMAN: Just can you describe, even in more detail, what it means not to have electricity? I mean, for people in any city—like New York years ago, we suffered the blackout. Obviously, it’s catastrophic. But explain what it means to have two—if you’re lucky, four—hours of electricity a day, how it affects daily living, how it affects the hospitals, how it affects the clean water, etc.
RAJI SOURANI: I mean, Gaza is one of the most densely populated area on Earth. And we are having buildings with 14, 16 stories now. And it’s mission impossible, I mean, to send water to these stories up, because you need electricity even to pump this unusable water. So, having water, most of Gaza, I mean, it’s not there. Second, the desalination factories, it doesn’t work. I mean, if it works, it works like two hours, which is not enough. Minimally, it should work like 20 hours a day to supply Gaza with water. The sewage factories cannot work. And because it cannot work, it cannot be treated, and the entire raw sewage dumped to the sea. And this affects, I mean, the entire sea, and it’s contaminated. And it’s—nobody can swim in it, because it’s totally polluted.
If you go to the meat store, you will find it, I mean, max for one day. The rest, I mean, they will send it to the garbage, because, you know, most of the people here, because they are poor, they depend on frozen meat and frozen fish imported from outside. They cannot store it, so it just gets bad, and it’s not for human use.
If you go to the hospitals, I mean, it’s the real disaster. Operation theaters cannot work, and the operations cannot be carried. Dialysis machines, most of the time, because they stop, they get, you know, interrupted and broken. So, many of the dialysis patients, I mean, cannot do that. All those who are in automatic respiratory systems or intensive care units, you can imagine, when you are lack of electricity, about that.
Even, I mean, simple things like housewives, I mean, they cannot use laundry. They cannot store food at their fridges and so on. Factories, it’s mission impossible, I mean, to make it work. I mean, Gaza almost with no ice cream, I mean, for the time being, or other kinds of food stuff needs, you know, electricity. Most of the Gaza, I mean, like 20, 22 hours a day, it’s dark. I mean, during the night, you cannot really have the light in the streets, and that’s what makes even the number of fatal car accidents, you know, happens here. And people, I mean, as a result of that, pay with their life.
And on the level of education, people who just want to go back from their schools, from their work, to the high stories, they cannot, I mean, you know, go up 14, 16 stories back and forth. You can imagine people who are sick, and he or she have heart surgery, want to get back, you know, go to the hospital or to be treated. It’s not normal life. We are just in the middle centuries, while we are paying a bill. It’s not less than of the cost than the European standard bill of electricity.”
What’s mind boggling is the sponsors of this bill would even remotely think this is not only legal but a good idea. To many in government hold duel citizenship with Israel, Ben Cardin being one of them. No doubt where his and others behind this bill loyalties lie.
There’s now way in hell that a government official can have allegiance to two countries simultaneously. Nor should dual citizenship be tolerated! It is a contradiction in terms! They allow the bastardization of the meaning of citizenship, while allowing the stifling of free speech. With his kind of jerk legislating, we need a revolution!
Thank you Citizens United.
Thank you James Bopp.
Thank you Bradley Smith.
Thank you Bill Clinton for appointing Bradley Smith to the FEC.
Thank you — all of you — brilliant authors who argue that money = speech.
This is why we have a corrupt and moronic president today.
In the capitol of Capitalism, in the land of milked cows and dead honeybees, in the kingdom of superheroes and stupidness, why shouldn’t the richest decide what can and cannot be said?
It’s all for the sacred principle of Free Speech … because nothing is more free than inherited wealth.
Who needs an aristocracy when we have corporations?
If you don’t like laws purchased by foreign countries, then get the fucking money out of politics.
+1
Thank God for Glenn Greenwald!!
Yes, again and again.
Governor Cuomo and Senator Feinstein and Hillary Clinton, all Democrats, were all-out supporters for this bill last September. This article goes along quite well with Greenwald’s earlier article about collusion between Democrats and neocons – in fact, they are exactly parallel.
> The criminalization of political speech and activism against Israel has become one of the gravest threats to free speech in the west.
that’s nice to see
> Pundits and political officials love to crusade as free speech champions – when doing so involves defending mainstream ideas or attacking marginalized, powerless groups such as minority college students. But when it comes to [Israel] these free speech warriors typically fall silent.
other pundits love to crusade as free speech champions, but when it comes to censorship by relatively powerless groups they always remain silent. clearly, in both cases the defense of free speech is conditional, not absolute. all these halfhearted free speech warriors should just admit that
If you mean me, you should say so, and then (a) define what you mean by “relatively powerless groups” censoring and (b) specify how many examples I have to provide where I objected in those cases for you to acknowledge that your accusation is false.
a) i meant what you meant by this: “marginalized, powerless groups such as minority college students”. i reworded that because they are not powerless, they have been very effective at suppressing speech. i’m thinking of cases like milo yiannopoulos at uc davis or berkeley, or charles murray at middlebury, or any of these: https://www.thefire.org/category/cases/
b) as many tweets as you think you need to demonstrate a commitment (maybe three or four would suffice), or a single column within the last three years
Protesting censorship efforts aimed at Ann Coulter
On Berkeley cancellation of Coulter speech
Being cited by FIRE for article opposing hate speech laws
Condemning prosecution of anti-Muslim bigots for “hate speech” crimes
Condemning effort to punish anti-gay speech
Condemning hate speech laws
Check out all my First Amendment work as a lawyer, too. Let me know if you have any questions.
That’s telling him, Glenn.
• Protesting censorship efforts aimed at Ann Coulter
that’s good, but it was seven years ago
• On Berkeley cancellation of Coulter speech
that’s good
• Being cited by FIRE for article opposing hate speech laws
“But even though Greenwald isn’t discussing student speech on American campuses…” your commitment to opposing hate speech laws is unquestionable. but my criticism is that – with only the two exceptions above (one of them seven years old) – you’ve been silent on the speech suppression regularly occurring on college campuses. it seems that you have carved out an exception for “marginalized, powerless groups such as minority college students,” and i suspect it’s precisely for the reason that they are marginalized and relatively powerless. but the motive doesn’t matter here – your failure to consistently condemn this very conspicuous threat to free speech is analogous to the failure of the “free speech warriors” who refuse to condemn attacks on bds. your failure exposes you to the same criticism you throw at them, and that will make your defense of bds less effective
FIRE finds the time to defend bds; why can’t you find the time to defend the targets of campus censorship? with all that’s been going on, you’ve only felt it necessary to post a single tweet? sorry, but it’s very hard to square that with a committed opposition to this particular form of speech suppression. yes, the student mobs are generally targeting what they consider to be “hate speech,” but a general defense of hate speech does not eliminate the need for condemnation of particularly egregious instances where it’s used as a rationale for censorship. and how much time does it take to compose a tweet?
• Condemning prosecution of anti-Muslim bigots for “hate speech” crimes
• Condemning effort to punish anti-gay speech
• Condemning hate speech laws
@droug: uh, college students aren’t about to impose $1 million fines and 20-year prison sentences on those they disagree with. That’s one gynormous difference for you.
> uh, college students aren’t about to impose $1 million fines and 20-year prison sentences on those they disagree with. That’s one gynormous difference for you.
that might be a good reason to prioritize bds over campus speech, and there’s no problem with that. but the fact is – as we have seen – that he has virtually ignored the issue of campus speech suppression altogether (no articles and only a single tweet in the past seven years). that’s the problem. his silence on such a conspicuous free speech issue renders his own defense of free speech selective, in the same way he accuses others of selectivity because they ignore attacks on bds. if he can’t even find the time for an occasional tweet, then it’s reasonable to question whether he really does object to speech suppression by “marginalized, powerless groups such as minority college students,” and whether he really is committed to the defense of free speech for all
So will the “free speech defenders” out there jump in on this one? Dave Rubin? Sam Harris?
I’ll be surprised if they even mention it.
No dissenters?
https://diasp.eu/posts/5769437
Great article. So many things to gnash teeth over, but here’s the takeaway line:
“First, journalists love to lament the lack of bipartisanship in Washington, yet the very mention of the word “Israel” causes most members of both parties to quickly snap into line in a show of unanimity that would make the regime of North Korea blush with envy.”
Haha! Yes, that was pretty good.
No surprise that Cardin’s doing the scutwork here. He’s consistently pushed legislation intended to derail the Iran nuclear deal — arguably the **only** foreign policy accomplishment of the Obama administration, i.e., the administration of Cardin’s own party. Cardin seems to think he represents Tel Aviv more than Baltimore.
Other than these sorts of antics, Cardin mostly just occupies space. Marylanders don’t have a helluva lot to show for his “employment”. He’s due for a primary challenge in 2018, but in a one-party state like Maryland*, where the one party is a totally ossified Dem establishment constitutes, Cardin might hang on to his sinecure as long as he has a pulse. Look at Steny Hoyer.
In the case of Cardin, the additional problem is that any Democrat that dares challenge Cardin or any of the protected few will be condemned to political Siberia. Donna Edwards found that out last year when she ran against Chris Van Hollen for Barbara Mikulski’s senate seat.
Cardin could be turned out of office if someone like Prince George’s County Executive Rushern Baker ran against him. But Baker didn’t get to where he is by being an idiot. And running against Cardin would be an idiotic thing to do.
“Even the bravest of organizations often steadfastly avoid any controversies relating to Israel.”
Of course this is true, but it’s very depressing that the Intercept still can’t bring itself to explain to its readers just why this is so. Shouldn’t the next sentence be some explanation of who exactly is corrupting our politicians like this, and why are they so powerful? Doesn’t the basic principle of journalistic context demand it?
If, for example, the Evangelical Christian community who were intimidating our congressmen over a particular issue dear to them, I’m pretty certain the Intercept would attempt to explain the ideology behind it. But after sixty years Zionism still remains the elephant in the room that can’t be named.
And because of that, I predict they’ll succeed in getting this passed just as they’ve succeeded in getting all the others passed.
If this frothing-at-the-mouth call for, in effect, lynching those who oppose radical Zionist policy seems “a bit extreme,” consider it as part of the untreated PTSD syndrome that dates back to WWII. That’s what it is. When I was in NYC in the late 60s, I knew people (parents of some of my friends) who did what seemed to me (a SF Bay Area Californian) quite bazaar compulsive behaviors that were “hangovers” from the European pogroms. For example, one lady rarely left her home (built of bricks) for any reason. Instead, she had all sorts of things brought to her — clothes to try on, groceries, etc., as well as her hair dresser. (Her husband was her M.D.) She also owned several West Side residential hotels — thus, she always had a place to stay. Her husband always had a large roll of cash — on him — with other stashes of portable valuables closely near by. This couple had escaped from Warsaw, run and hid out for several years and the husband had been involved in getting people on the EXODUS (ship from Italy to Palestine.) It was clear to me that they were still compulsively acting out survival skills from their ordeal. Israel’s Zionist policies all seem to be grounded in this sort of “living memory” that’s cultivated in stead of treated (as the PTSD “triggered” reactions it represents.) If we are ever to return to sane politics, we need to start looking at the roots of pathology being acted out in politics — especially where the three Bible-based religious cultures are concerned. All are seemingly doing their best to relive the worst features of their collective pasts! (With Atom Bombs and plagues of AIDS-like devastation, now, in images outpictured in the world’s great screen in relative technicolor, compared to the weak charcoal smudges of the past.)
Seems like big government to me. Funny how many republican “principles” get swept under the rug or re-signified at their best convenience.
AIPAC controls the DNC and it was Haim Saban’s money that controlled the destruction of the Sanders campaign thereby giving us the Orange lunatic.
Now AIPAC is going after the US Constitution by tugging on the leashes it has attached to so many in Congress.
I wonder how Holocaust survivors feel about their people becoming exactly like the monsters they survived. That would be an interesting interview.
Of course, not all Jews are Zionists, but when this much power is used to push such a minority goal it gets more and more difficult to tease the two groups apart.
Islamophobia is A-Okay while Zionophobia/Judeophobia will be a felony. Now THAT is American Exceptionalism!
“Of course, not all Jews are Zionists, but … it gets more and more difficult to tease the two groups apart.”
Please keep trying. It’s worth the effort if you don’t want to be an asshole.
Not if you’re Chuck Schumer or President Macron.
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Senator-Schumer-Macron-absolutely-right-in-equating-anti-Zionism-with-antisemitism-500002
The arguments of Schumer and Macron are morally and logically compelling, as long as one is willing to share in their pretense that Palestinians do not exist.
Good ole Chuck Shomer!
How am I an asshole if I can’t tell the difference between idealogies used as masks for sociopathic behavior?
Don’t bother trying to justify the monotheistic Abrahamic religions. Their respective histories speak for themselves. They’re practically the same with differences in marketing and which day off they take to go self-aggrandize.
Spare me the anti-semitism memes used to guilt people into getting in line. I know you religious types are very well practiced in that behavior. Doesn’t matter if you’re Catholic, Jewish, or Muslim they’re all the same when it comes to artificial guilt.
They’re stale memes, time to trade in for the dank ones.
He’s not calling you an asshole. His implore is for you to keep on trying to distinguish between Jews who’re Zionists, and Jews who’re obviously not in the AIPAC tank, even if you find it difficult to do so.
Cheers :)
Oh, well yeah that’s a given for me. Humans are humans first.
It’s only once they reveal their beliefs about other people, namely if they think humans are intrinsically worthy or not, that I will pass judgement. All that really means is I ignore sociopaths and the groups they control, and remain aware of their behavior and whether it can impact me negatively.
Guess I missed the nuance in Gator’s comment. Whoops.
No that is not true, at all. Hahahaaa!!! What a pro this or that guilt rhetoric you share. It too, in a different way is what happens around us and we privately and sometimes publically state our repulsion to it The important and realistic social construct is that we don’t let ourselves be manipulated by individuals that made their career on wanting to have control over us. Get it?.
Um, what? You are mistaken in your interpretation of my views. Trust me, I know very well how to sniff out manipulative sociopaths. I gladly expose the little roaches when they reveal themselves around me, and more often than not they shut up and move on to an easier target.
It’s cool, man. I have my life handled and I’m quite content.
I know, what you were saying didn’t escape my conscience, at all. It’s just my personal revulsion to it all is hard to put in words. and if you can believe, you weren’t harsh enough for me.
That’s fair. I used to be a lot more angry and harsh about these subjects, but I realized I was mostly angry with myself for getting duped by the system. I’ve forgiven myself although it took a while. I have channeled my anger about the system in other ways now, like writing a book and writing poetry and music as well. Also, gardening and investing in real value things, like precious metals.
Use your anger and revulsion to inspire your rebellion against the system. Refrain from violence because that’s how the system uses us and benefits from the chaos of violence. Get creative! Individual creativity, in all aspects of life, is one area the system will always struggle to control.
I’m sure you know a lot about that. This is for everyone else who may be angry and need some inspiration. We’ve all been there.