Huge volumes of private emails, phone calls, and internet chats are being intercepted by the National Security Agency with the secret cooperation of more foreign governments than previously known, according to newly disclosed documents from whistleblower Edward Snowden.
The classified files, revealed today by the Danish newspaper Dagbladet Information in a reporting collaboration with The Intercept, shed light on how the NSA’s surveillance of global communications has expanded under a clandestine program, known as RAMPART-A, that depends on the participation of a growing network of intelligence agencies.
It has already been widely reported that the NSA works closely with eavesdropping agencies in the United Kingdom, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia as part of the so-called Five Eyes surveillance alliance. But the latest Snowden documents show that a number of other countries, described by the NSA as “third-party partners,” are playing an increasingly important role – by secretly allowing the NSA to install surveillance equipment on their fiber-optic cables.
The NSA documents state that under RAMPART-A, foreign partners “provide access to cables and host U.S. equipment.” This allows the agency to covertly tap into “congestion points around the world” where it says it can intercept the content of phone calls, faxes, e-mails, internet chats, data from virtual private networks, and calls made using Voice over IP software like Skype.
The program, which the secret files show cost U.S. taxpayers about $170 million between 2011 and 2013, sweeps up a vast amount of communications at lightning speed. According to the intelligence community’s classified “Black Budget” for 2013, RAMPART-A enables the NSA to tap into three terabits of data every second as the data flows across the compromised cables – the equivalent of being able to download about 5,400 uncompressed high-definition movies every minute.
In an emailed statement, the NSA declined to comment on the RAMPART-A program. “The fact that the U.S. government works with other nations, under specific and regulated conditions, mutually strengthens the security of all,” said NSA spokeswoman Vanee’ Vines. “NSA’s efforts are focused on ensuring the protection of the national security of the United States, its citizens, and our allies through the pursuit of valid foreign intelligence targets only.”
The secret documents reveal that the NSA has set up at least 13 RAMPART-A sites, nine of which were active in 2013. Three of the largest – codenamed AZUREPHOENIX, SPINNERET and MOONLIGHTPATH – mine data from some 70 different cables or networks. The precise geographic locations of the sites and the countries cooperating with the program are among the most carefully guarded of the NSA’s secrets, and these details are not contained in the Snowden files. However, the documents point towards some of the countries involved – Denmark and Germany among them.
An NSA memo prepared for a 2012 meeting between the then-NSA director, Gen. Keith Alexander, and his Danish counterpart noted that the NSA had a longstanding partnership with the country’s intelligence service on a special “cable access” program. Another document, dated from 2013 and first published by Der Spiegel on Wednesday, describes a German cable access point under a program that was operated by the NSA, the German intelligence service BND, and an unnamed third partner.
The Danish and German operations appear to be associated with RAMPART-A because it is the only NSA cable-access initiative that depends on the cooperation of third-party partners. Other NSA operations tap cables without the consent or knowledge of the countries that host the cables, or are operated from within the United States with the assistance of American telecommunications companies that have international links. One secret NSA document notes that most of the RAMPART-A projects are operated by the partners “under the cover of an overt comsat effort,” suggesting that the tapping of the fiber-optic cables takes place at Cold War-era eavesdropping stations in the host countries, usually identifiable by their large white satellite dishes and radomes.
A shortlist of other countries potentially involved in the RAMPART-A operation is contained in the Snowden archive. A classified presentation dated 2013, published recently in Intercept editor Glenn Greenwald’s book No Place To Hide, revealed that the NSA had top-secret spying agreements with 33 third-party countries, including Denmark, Germany, and 15 other European Union member states:
For any foreign government, allowing the NSA to secretly tap private communications is politically explosive, hence the extreme secrecy shrouding the names of those involved. But governments that participate in RAMPART-A get something in return: access to the NSA’s sophisticated surveillance equipment, so they too can spy on the mass of data that flows in and out of their territory.
The partnership deals operate on the condition that the host country will not use the NSA’s spy technology to collect any data on U.S. citizens. The NSA also agrees that it will not use the access it has been granted to collect data on the host countries’ citizens. One NSA document notes that “there ARE exceptions” to this rule – though does not state what those exceptions may be.
According to Snowden, the agreements that the NSA has in place with its partners are lax and easily circumvented. In a statement to the European parliament in March, he used Denmark and Germany as examples to describe how the NSA had effectively established what he called a “European bazaar” for surveillance.
“An EU member state like Denmark may give the NSA access to a tapping center on the (unenforceable) condition that NSA doesn’t search it for Danes, and Germany may give the NSA access to another on the condition that it doesn’t search for Germans,” Snowden said.
“Yet the two tapping sites may be two points on the same cable, so the NSA simply captures the communications of the German citizens as they transit Denmark, and the Danish citizens as they transit Germany, all the while considering it entirely in accordance with their agreements.”
———
Source documents for this article can be found here.
people (I meam true human being) do not kill people. Agents are borderless, senseless, heartless, .. they are not human beings, they are RATS!
At least someone in the NSA has a sense of humor: “Got Fiber?”
I think maybe we forget that the people working in the NSA are still people.
Remarkable issues here. I am very satisfied to peer your post. Thanks so much and I’m having a look ahead to touch you. Will you please drop me a e-mail?
I am an American temporarily resident in France. In a recent Internet session, I researched 9 11 events a d false flag operations to learn more about the differences of the two. Mistake #1. Then I posted something on FB about how I believed Dick Cheney and neo-cons were behind the 911 “false flag operation”. Mistake #2. Finally, I exchanged emails with another American (whose own obsession is he JFK “assassination”) where we discussed changes in America we didn’t like. Mistake#3. Soon after sending the email, I watched as all of my cache of sent emails was downloaded to who knows where. Where has my free speech gone? Where is my freedom to search the Internet on any subject? Is the NSA now watching me too? I’m a middle-aged lady retired to France, for God’s sake! What threat am I simply because I am curious, and hold opinions of my own?!? As for hacking activity by govt secret agencies – tell me where the quoted source named in this article…. http://www.storyleak.com/downing-of-flight-mh-17-false-flag-operation-to-blame-russia/. has disappeared to….
http://failedrevolution.blogspot.gr/2014/07/cold-war-20-old-school-behind-it.html.
The pap replacing it surely doesn’t represent the thinking of the true blogger!! Government hacking and replacement example, I think!
Spys are obsolete , The satellite system is so powerful , it can read your mind. Snowden is right , the command center people sit around and enjoy watching you.They also provide info to private individuals for their private needs.I have been a victim of that. John Bertotto
Testing 1 2 3…
Disappointed that there are so many redactions made by the media. It casts doubt on the authenticity of the documents (what else has been altered or changed?) – very little transparency from the Media which I find to be disturbingly ironic. My impression is that the actual source documents are not being presented here. Instead the authors have “created” false documents based on what they choose to reveal.
Glenn has published a new article!!!
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/07/09/under-surveillance
Coram just watched The Front Page (1974) Billy Wilder.
Different again from “The Big Carnival” also known and released in divers places as “Ace in the Hole”.
On all things journalistic with 1st Amendment overtones.
How various media treat the same story in different ways.
Excellent film, worth viewing.
A subtle point but (at 1hr 32 m 44 secs) Williams gives the lede for the next day’s front page to Burns by saying “….those thirteen stairs don’t lead up to the gallows they lead up to the stars. ”
Shortly after Mr Burns says to the authorities, “”A divine providence, an unseen power”. This is repeated later that an unseen power protects the “Examiner”
Some quotes but the movie is a treat.
For me this is 4 and a half stars.
Yes. The Front Page is a jazzy take, a remake, on journalistic ethics, and Matthau and Lemmon are back.
The reference to the thirteen courses of bricks in the American Pyramid, and the all seeing eye of horus can not have escaped your reasoning. What unseen power protects the press is the question I ask.
.. phone home, jammer.
Speaking of oligarchy – we know that when only a few corporations own energy, for example, they can engage in price manipulations and price fixing. That goes for all sectors of goods and services, and soon, due to the massive consolidation in the health sector after the ACA was passed, we’ll be seeing price rises in health care and supply bottle-necks that serve to raise prices at critical times of demand increases that will very likely result in rationing of health care for some.
Many people have noticed price increases in food over the last four or so years. But did you know that food company consolidation has now narrowed the number of food companies to a mere ten, that control the vast majority of the global food system?
A 2013 briefing paper from Oxfam delivers the low down on this development – BEHIND THE BRANDS: Food justice and the “Big 10″ food and beverage companies.
http://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/bp166-behind-the-brands-260213-en.pdf
On page 5 of the paper:
There’s good news embedded in the report too:
An accompanying graphic: https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/1731/67675/12h/si.wsj.net/public/resources/MWimages/MW-CL638_big_br_MG_20140708113052.jpg
An accompanying image: https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/1731/67675/12h/si.wsj.net/public/resources/MWimages/MW-CL638_big_br_MG_20140708113052.jpg
This is a great post seer and definitely centered around an issue – monopolization of global food supply and limitation of access – that everyone should consider as an imminent threat to survival of humanity.
When all the food and water is controlled by the few for the profit of the few, many will die.
Thanks for posting.
Dianne Feinstein and a new bill.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/08/senate-cybersecurity-bill-opposed-by-nsa-critics
Feinstein’s loyalty to the security industrial complex is heartwarming. Some government functionaries are always switching allegiances, depending on who offers them the best deal. It is a rare representative who picks the winning horse right out of the starting gate and then backs it all the way.
And to think that, but for Dan White, she might today be unknown outside the San Francisco society pages.
You don’t suppose DF enabled his Hostess addiction…?
If a Twinkie diet’s it, you must acquit…
You’re overlooking the two Hostess Ding Dongs theory, which puts them behind the knoll.
ACLU statement on CISA 27 Jun 14: https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-technology-and-liberty/beware-dangers-congress-latest-cybersecurity-bill
Strong opposition on this one.
The establishment of the United States of America is drunk on self-importance, violence and domination, and there is no one – no one – powerful enough to intervene and stop the abuse.
Your right no one individual can stop this….but collectively we can.
I have read your comments and you try, through activism, to do your part.
Hang in there.
The both of you are the best of the best.
Keep on keeping on.
Victory or failure is in the hands of the gods. It is a warriors role to fight even if he will be defeated.
Properly understood, to fight the impossible fight is the test of one’s courage.
Easy to fight and win.
Something else to fight the good fight and lose.
The joy of a warrior is in the fight. Victory is ordained elsewhere.
Fight on warriors and die with dignity.
Meanwhile, over at the Guardian, a new story about DARPA and the US military spending considerable time and doubloons on studying social networks.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/08/darpa-social-networks-research-twitter-influence-studies
Some key quotes:
“Through the program, Darpa seeks to develop tools to support the efforts of human operators to counter misinformation or deception campaigns with truthful information.”
However, papers leaked by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden indicate that US and British intelligence agencies have been deeply engaged in planning ways to covertly use social media for purposes of propaganda and deception.
Documents prepared by NSA and Britain’s GCHQ (and previously published by the Intercept as well as NBC News) revealed aspects of some of these programs. They included a unit engaged in “discrediting” the agency’s enemies with false information spread online.
… The project, which related to how users understood and consumed information on Twitter, at one point analysed the tweets, retweets and other interactions spawned by Lady Gaga (described as “the most popular elite user on Twitter”) and Justin Bieber (“who is extremely popular among teenagers”).
“However, papers leaked by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden indicate that US and British intelligence agencies have been deeply engaged in planning ways to covertly use social media for purposes of propaganda and deception.”
Yes, therein is the duplicitous, irreconcilable cognitive dissonance that is our secret intelligence agencies.
“We need only in cold blood ACT as if the thing in question were real, and keep acting as if it were real, and it will infallibly end by growing into such a connection with our life that it will become real.”
– William James
I’m glad the Department of Defense is spending money to research social media, because frankly they aren’t very good at it. I don’t blame them for this; the skill set for flying an F-15, or building a nuclear missile doesn’t always translate well to Twitter. It must be frustrating to deploy your best shock and awe techniques, and then return to find that Lady Gaga still has more followers than you do.
I also wonder if the Department of Defense should have been given responsibility for every government function. It may have been a mistake to put them in charge of diplomatic relations, as tensions with close allies such as Germany seem to be increasing. Granted the State Department was completely ineffectual, but they had a sensitivity to the concerns of other nations that seems to missing from the military. Diplomacy and military strength often complement each other and adopting just a single approach can sometimes be limiting.
The same could be true of Twitter – it may not actually be necessary to eliminate everyone on Twitter who disagrees with US policy. Still, after the war on poverty, the war on crime and the war on drugs, the war on Twitter is probably inevitable. So best of luck to the Department of Defense as they plot to dethrone Justin Bieber. But they do risk losing sight of their core competency – smashing other nations to smithereens – as they wade ever deeper into the quagmire of social media.
Yes, Duce, although in this case I can’t really blame them. They must have been spooked by the rapid spread of revolution during the Arab Spring, the use of social and other media — including Skype and YouTube — to organize the mob and, later on in places like Libya, to conduct military training or even direct artillery fire.
(To others: coram nobis says check out Out of the Mountains: The Coming Age of the Urban Guerrilla by David Kilcullen to see how this plays out in this new medium. The next young Alexander may come wielding an iPad).
I don’t think they can convincingly spread propaganda in these social media — their sockpuppets here, QED, prove that — but they may like to know if the next meme is going to cause problems. They’re probably not worried that 10 million Lady Gaga fans are going to overthrow the US government, but they have reason to watch social media for a sudden meme, which might play out in real time. They’re watching that, Duce, not what Justin Bieber has tattooed on his backside.
I forced to remind, my good coram nobis, Chelsea Manning is a fan of Lady Gaga’s.
Are either of them tattooed on Justin Beiber? Because the NSA needs to complete the conspiracy theory.
Freaking hypocrite. He’s not a vegan.
And then there’s his support of animal torture porn.
What does whether or not one is a vegan have to do with believing that, “deriving pleasure & self-esteem by shooting defenseless animals” is a reasonable and understandable opinion to have and to express?
Your follow-on “comment” is just another of your out of control tourette syndrome screams.
Because factory farms are not more humane than hunting? In fact you could argue thay are grossly less humane in some if not most ways. Because since he’s a meat eater (claims his “fave” restaurant in Rio is a beef place), he’s “deriving pleasure” from the grotesque treatment of animals in those factory farms?
I’m surprised you didn’t use that phrase…what is it … “toxic shit spew?” Used on Chris Floyd’s blog. LOL. #toxicshitspew In the comments where you had your ass handed to you.
I noticed you didn’t comment on his First Amendment absolutism about videos of animal torture porn. He’s a hypocrite and he depends on rabid fans and Greenback$ bots like you to defend his contradictions and his inconsistencies over and over again.
You take care now Banjo.
As always, you’re lying out right and by omission, and tossing in a lot of straw man nonsense. Glenn specifically separated hunting for food from what is known as trophy hunting. Also you’re pretending that factory farming includes “deriving pleasure and self esteem…”>/em>
Assuming that you’re not truly as stupid and dishonest as your comments would indicate, you’ve long ago outlived your usefulness to whomever the hell it was who was foolish enough to think that you could be an asset to their cause. You should be fired posthaste. Or maybe you might consider willing submitting your resignation.
I say the same thing when I fail to bag anything.
One salient aspect of the debate has received little attention: that big, fat streak of cowardice running through the US/UK’s Stasi ranks; ‘The Scared Deciders’, to whom not so wise American and British civilians grant judge, jury, and executioner privs on the occasion of each national election.
Cowards click the GUI terrorist-check-box next to the names of individuals who use Tor, read WikiLeaks, dispense with New Testament thumping F-15 pilot(s), attend climate-change science seminars, oppose perpetual offensive war, or anyone else suspected of scary, extremist thought-crime, no matter how innocuous and reasoned. And lets not forget those frightful vegans and readers of Linux Journal; these terrorists are A Clear And Present Danger!™
A discussion of the cowardice angle of the NSA debate would be constructive, not matter how overdue.
“A discussion of the cowardice angle of the NSA debate would be constructive, not matter how overdue.”
Agreed. It’s easy to make these decisions when no one is watching – it’s the light of scrutiny by the world community that tempers this abhorrent behavior.
I put together a quick analysis/organization of your post:
Oh boy, here we go with the “stasi” talk again. Let’s forgive that though; let’s see what “big, fat streak of cowardice” you speak of. [Spoiler Alert: It’s never explained in a coherent manner]
I can almost imagine you saying this, some guy wearing a tin-foil hat, with bloodshot eyes and a nervous twitch, using air quotes to describe “the scared deciders.” You mention national election so you refer to the President and Congress, who in fact aren’t performing the functions of “judge, jury, and executioner” and in fact are barely function at all. Your rants are cryptic to the point that nobody can possibly respond and start a sane dialogue.
Okay, so cowards = elected officials. But now you imply the “cowards” are those who select your imaginary check boxes. But those people aren’t elected, they are either Presidentially appointed or are career employees. I thought I’d point that out before addressing your laundry list of fully-monitored government tasks.
“Use TOR and you’re automatically monitored?” Any evidence of such arbitrary and all-encompassing surveillance?
“Read wikileaks” and you get a ‘terrorist’ designation? Yawn.
“Dispense with the New Testament thumping F-15 pilots.” This is incoherent babble
“Oppose perpetual offensive war.” Watch out Libertarians!!
“or anyone else suspected of scary, extremist thought-crime, no matter how innocuous and reasoned.” You basically cannot even argue with a comment like this because of its ridiculousness. You’ve watched Minority Report one too many times.
I don’t know if this is just more nonsense babble or your attempt at humor. If it’s the latter, well…comedy isn’t for everybody.
No. Nothing you said is conducive to discussion because it is mere rhetoric. It may seem profound to you but your posts are not stimulating conversation at all if you hadn’t noticed. God bless Sillyputty for trying.
Nate –
Shame on YOU! I think Stan definitely has a point. First, the kind of targeting Stan mentions IS occurring. It has come out they were targeting Tor users and even those who investigated Tor and/or Linux. Previous revelations showed they targeted NGOs that were definitely not related to terrorism. And another report said that NSA and intelligence folks thought of those who opposed drone strikes as adversaries. All these things have come out of Snowden related stories.
And second, you DO have to wonder if these NSA analysts and higher -ups would be so bold if the curtain was drawn back. They’re surely fighting hard to keep that curtain closed (see Coram’s post on the new bill Feinstein has proposed). It’s shameful. They want to know everything we do online or on the phone or even by mail. But they want to keep secret their targeting. What are they scared of?
@ Nate:
You obviously derive a great deal of pleasure trying to make yourself look good at the expense of others.
You are so egocentric that you can’t see that it is your “mere rhetoric” which is offensive. You are an arrogant, asshole.
Here is an EFF statement regarding Tor and readers of the Linux Journal:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/07/dear-nsa-privacy-fundamental-right-not-reasonable-suspicion
The EFF doesn’t generally issue statements without supporting evidence.
Perhaps you should check your facts before you itemize your useless, debate points and make rude comments which only serve to extinguish discussion.
Too Cents..
‘American militants like Anwar al-Awlaki are placed on a kill or capture list by a secretive panel of senior government officials, which then informs the president of its decisions . . . . There is no public record of the operations or decisions of the panel, which is a subset of the White House’s National Security Council . . . . Neither is there any law establishing its existence or setting out the rules by which it is supposed to operate. . . . The role of the president in ordering or ratifying a decision to target a citizen is fuzzy. White House spokesman Tommy Vietor declined to discuss anything about the process. . . .
Representative Dutch Ruppersberger, was asked by reporters about the killing. The process involves “going through the National Security Council, then it eventually goes to the president” . . . .Other officials said the role of the president in the process was murkier than what Ruppersberger described. They said targeting recommendations are drawn up by a committee of mid-level National Security Council and agency officials. Their recommendations are then sent to the panel of NSC “principals,” meaning Cabinet secretaries and intelligence unit chiefs, for approval . . . But one official said Obama would be notified of the principals’ decision. If he objected, the decision would be nullified, the official said.
So a panel operating out of the White House — that meets in total secrecy, with no known law or rules governing what it can do or how it operates — is empowered to place American citizens on a list to be killed by the CIA, which (by some process nobody knows) eventually makes its way to the President, who is the final Decider. It is difficult to describe the level of warped authoritarianism necessary to cause someone to lend their support to a twisted Star Chamber like that; I genuinely wonder whether the Good Democrats doing so actually first convince themselves that if this were the Bush White House’s hit list, or if it becomes Rick Perry’s, they would be supportive just the same. Seriously: if you’re willing to endorse having White House functionaries meet in secret — with no known guidelines, no oversight, no transparency — and compile lists of American citizens to be killed by the CIA without due process, what aren’t you willing to support?’ [snip]
http://www.salon.com/2011/10/06/execution_by_secret_wh_committee/
Thanks, suave –
That lays it all out. We should ALL be enraged at this “star-chamber”, “kill list”, “decision matrix”, or whatever it gets called.
Thanks, feline, and others… I’m glad you are enraged.
Nate and friends are trying very hard to do their part in keeping the lid on the COINTELPRO story — stalking and interference in targets’ daily lives. The types of interference — not reported here — go way beyond the digital surveillance the five named targets experienced: they fuck with people’s finances, they recruit doctors & lab technicians to fuck with target-patient’s heads (and on occasion, administer mild physical torture), physically stalk and harass targets, interfere with job interviews, and more.
There isn’t just one star-chamber, there are countless star-chambers. Some of these low-level GUI terrorist check-box clickers are involved; they have been granted the security privs to destroy lives. Some COINTELPRO targets are driven to suicide, as they were in the 60s and 70s. But it’s worse now: today’s Stasi has more impunity, more influence in the workplace, more neighborhood cooperation, police cooperation, a public scared of its own shadow, and of course, all those cool gadgets.
So, thanks again, feline, suave, & Lyra. And finally, a friendly question: can you imagine how disgusted long-term targets must feel about the fellow Americans who have approved of this state of affairs for so many years?
“There are many more NSA stories yet to be reported.” Glenn Greenwald in an interview with Amy Goodman after coming to NY for the Polk Awards.
“This will be the finale.” Glenn Greenwald last week.
Nobody has been gagged?
Omidyar needs to get his legislation passed before they can continue “reporting” their “breaking stories” on the same topic spun 100 different ways to look NEW! and IMPROVED!
Once Omidyar gets his tax breaks and more lax regs governing investing in the U.S. and overseas in programs that supposedly help the working classes (like he did investing in Ukraine overthrow), then Greenback$ can start his “journalism” again.
More NSA stories being reported, just not here. See my post further along about DARPA and Operation Bieber Tweeter.
Any information on whether a certain state security service was involved in the hacking of the University of East Anglia climate science emails? You know, because terrorism.
If control over energy policy fails so might the superpower military in bed with the energy owners.
It’s always more accurately been a war on “terraism,” with plenty of distractions while pockets are picked.
Climate hysteria is funded and mobilized by leftist progressive globalists and their Big Government. That’s how climate taxes and int’l banking Climate derivatives are promoted. They have no reason to work against their interests by attempting to expose Global Warming theory as baseless.
That leaves you as a cheerleader of globalist Big Government and its progressive leftist police- and surveillance-state.
Dear Glenn Beck, You sound even more deranged than usual. Are you taking your meds?
The Ex-Google Hacker Taking on the World’s Spy Agencies
“During his last six years working as an elite security researcher for Google, the hacker known as Morgan Mayhem spent his nights and weekends hunting down the malware used to spy on vulnerable targets like human rights activists and political dissidents.
“His new job tasks him with defending a different endangered species: American national security journalists.
For the last month, 34-year-old Morgan Marquis-Boire has been the director of security for First Look Media, the journalism startup founded by Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras.”
Try it out!
“Now you’ll try a test correspondence with a computer program named Edward, which knows how to use encryption. Except where noted, these are the same steps you’d follow when corresponding with a real, live person.”
https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/
I know many feel it necessary to encrypt email, but doesn’t it just draw unwanted attention? I think I prefer to hide my tree in the forest.
Do you want to discuss with a german about trees? ;-)
I guess we have to redefine the Black Forest. :)
Today we had a discussion about tourism for young americans in Europe, Prag, Berlin, London, Paris, Neuschwanstein, maybe Spain or better not… Oh no, we did forget the Black Forest!
`keller..
tal vez españa?
‘carnaval de cadiz’
I commited a word crime?! Sorry.
http://www.englishtown.com/blog/word-crimes-discuss-about/
Being a tree doesn’t save you when they clear-cut the forest. Kinda the point.
To heck with encryption. That’s running away from the actual problem, which is feeling empowered to collect everything in the first place. They are not.
http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/jul/02/game-of-thrones-app-yo-hodor
Oh, I get it now. I was on staycation. So, now that’s over, can I get a proof of life?
The Pejorative Use of ‘Dumping’
http://ohtarzie.wordpress.com/2013/10/07/on-the-pejorative-use-of-dumping/
Oh, no big whoop, one can be dehodorized easily, apparently. I figured I’d just drop into goog’s greedy mouth some data points flashing past me as you toss my comments into the sea and found what you saw I see. See? No? How you like dat?
Kind sickening as this sounds similar to XKeystroke Vandals sacking Game of Drones.
LMAO.
Why are you so obsessed with Ryan Gallagher? Did this article strike a nerve?
You may not have wasted enough time dwelling on PSBI’s wordscapes, but this poor soul hates Glenn Greenwald for not being him. I doubt he even cares about Ryan, while I have been kicking his side for years.
`VoR..
Neither. Her latest demented angst was directed at Mr. Greenwald’s partner who was detained/interrogated at Heathrow airport back in Aug/’13..
Her cowardice is exemplified being that her repugnant *bitterlligerence is dispensed from the safety of her own obscurity.
*urban
LOL.
More fun with Hobby Lobby (h/t DKos). A limited-liability corporation, at least in US law, exists as a legal entity to shield its shareholders and owners from personal liability; the LLC gets sued, not them — unless under a legal theory called “piercing the corporate veil” the corporation is revealed as a sham or a personal activity. You can look up “piercing the corporate veil” and “limited liability” online and get the gist.
Anyway, I come to find that a group of corporate-law professors did put in an amicus brief on this, to the effect that a finding for Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood Products, enabling their owners to act upon their religious beliefs through the corporation, would open the door to “piercing the veil” actions. A lot of them.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2014/07/hobby-lobbys-other-problem
(see the “friends of the court brief” hyperlink, via becketfund URL).
Let the revels begin.
Corporations exist in part to shield the personal assets of shareholders from personal liability for the debts or actions of a corporation. Unlike a general partnership or sole proprietorship in which the owner could be held responsible for all the debts of the company, a corporation traditionally limited the personal liability of the shareholders. The limits of this protection have narrowed in recent years. Shareholders are increasingly personally liable.
Piercing the corporate veil typically is most effective with smaller privately held business entities (close corporations) in which the corporation has a small number of shareholders, limited assets, and recognition of separateness of the corporation from its shareholders would promote fraud or an inequitable result.
There is no record of a successful piercing of the corporate veil for a publicly traded corporation because of the large number of shareholders and the extensive mandatory filings entailed in qualifying for listing on an exchange.
— wiki entry on “piercing the corporate veil”
veddy interesting, ty coram. now on to Guantanamo, lol.
This hasn’t worked out too well.
Publicly-traded corporations aren’t closely-held, and are governed by the Securities Act and Rule 10b-5 and a lot of other stuff, and, in theory, the x thousand people who hold their stock (ownership per share, which is sort of why they call them “equities”). A lot harder to impose your religion when you hold 10,000 shares out of 100 million, say.
Right. I’m referring to the “in theory” part. Limited liability in the real world. But I digress.
A large number of shareholders is no longer necessary in a society where all wealth will soon be controlled by a relatively small number of oligarchs. This ruling does not expand the powers of the limited liability corporation, but rather recognizes it is no longer relevant.
No need to limit liability when the oligarchs are granted impunity.
No, VOR, but the ruling did suggest that it’s easier to show that the corporation was sham and the plaintiffs can sue the people housed within. Justice Alito’s opinion also suggested that single-payer health care was a way to avoid questions of corporate responsibility in heath care.
You get what you wish for. You get it good and hard, sometimes.
Unfortunately you only get what you pay for. If corporations are funding the health plans, they get to call the tune.
quote”No need to limit liability when the oligarchs are granted impunity.”unquote
This is when the only viable alternate becomes owning shares in the 100 Heads Life Insurance Co.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_RncdHHdbig/U7lqLpJe1xI/AAAAAAAAbwQ/UbLHnx-tuv0/s1600/get-attachment+(6).jpg
Meanwhile, what’s that commotion in The Intercept office.. the sound of crickets?
An interesting wikileaks cable.
U) SECRETARY CLINTON’S DECEMBER 9, 2009 MEETING WITH UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER PETRO POROSHENKO
Sorry didn’t mean to spam.
I was under the impression that the USG was not altogether happy with the Ukrainian government under Yanukovych and I can’t remember when Yanuk took office but even if he wasn’t the guy in 09, I”m sure whoever it was wasn’t capitalist neoliberal enough for CIinton and her boys in Washington. That should tell you about how reactionary and conservative the USG is and they will stop at nothing to make these countries safe for shoveling $$ out of these places and into foreign banks for the CEOs. Yanuk was nowhere near a socialist but he was keeping lots of money inside Ukraine, and the Clinton cabal and then Obama/Kerry wanted no part of that, which is why the coup. The coup came on the heels of Obama getting his ass handed to him by Putin on Syria, though. I doubt it was planned as far back as 09. But obviously they had Poro in their sights as an agreeable neoliberal puppet.
What’s the “Petro” short for? Petrochemical?
Repost. Any comment guys?
(U) SECRETARY CLINTON’S DECEMBER 9, 2009 MEETING WITH UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER PETRO POROSHENKO
http://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09STATE129520_a.html
Try this for a supporting link:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/17753-ukraine-new-interim-government-too-many-familiar-faces
Our loyalty should not be to a person but to the truth. If the financial backers of Think Progress or TPM or Pando were involved in negotiations with the white house over regulations of overseas investment and those news magazines were refraining from any criticism of the administration for the duration, Glenn Greenwald would be the first to call them on it. It is altogether legitimate to ask whether The Intercept is holding off on further NSA revelations in order not to embarrass Omidyar in his dealings with the administration.
” It is altogether legitimate to ask whether The Intercept is holding off on further NSA revelations in order not to embarrass Omidyar in his dealings with the administration.”
Yes. At the very least, it is unseemly. Yet they appear, like NSA, to double-down on every critique. It’s a mystery why they are willing to prolong the trust issues.
You also have to look at the timeline. The aide for Omidyar was at the White House conference on June 25.
It was June 30 that Greenback$ said sorry, no fireworks folks.
Greenback$ is also back on Twitter like nothing ever happened. Does he think Greenbots are stupid? (don’t answer that) He’s posting about British royalty and Democrats who act like Republicans and all kinds of other stupid shit that nobody but a suck to power would do or care two shits about.
Here’s another interesting fact: June 30 was the closing date for election contributions reports for the 2nd quarter. Reports are due in at the Federal Elections Commission on July 15, and they are public records. Omidyar personally, or his corporate or PAC entities, might have to file reports as third-party contributors, or their names might turn up on candidates or party PAC recipient reports.
http://www.fec.gov/
Isn’t that interesting?
One of the worst apologists for Greenback$ and entrenched ruling class power. You only rival Banjo in your disturbing apologism to elitism.
I just handed you a rather large shovel, pal. You want to find their culpability, dig.
Waste of time. It’s more fun being a troll than actually doing any research, especially research that has a chance of discrediting your own arguments.
<strong<"I just handed you a rather large shovel, pal. You want to find their culpability, dig.
Right on. Put up or shut up.
““Often those that criticise others reveal what he himself lacks.”
– Shannon L. Alder
Perhaps Mr. Greenwald is not in a position to freely publish on The Intercept or elsewhere for that matter.
Perhaps he had to pass his notes along to someone else for publication.
Time will tell.
Can’t he own that and tell his “followers” that? Why the non-transparent secret bullshit? “We are checking out claims…” Right, sure you are. The “claim” is that your boss doesn’t want to hurt his chances of getting favorable legislation passed and told you to take a haircut on your “hard hitting” fireworks show. If that’s the case, just say it. Why tap dance around it?
He makes snake oil salesmen look good.
Look. There’s simply no evidence that Glenn has been gagged or threatened or bought. I would say you’re jumping the gun, but I rather suspect you’re acting on an agenda of some sort. Of course, if there’s an actual problem, that will be obvious with time, and there’s no need for your yapping.
Thanks, Jose. Let´s retain our common sense and coolness of judment by any means.
Geopolitically, Kreimhild better keep her eye on Hildebeast or she might find her Siegfried has a big hole in his hairnet. The last thing you want from your nation’s renewed nemisis is her KIssinger in a Wig compliments.
A little ot but related is an important date….July 16th
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/7/7/exclusive_inside_embassy_refuge_julian_assange
http://hodor.alf.nu/com/politifact/www/-/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/07/glenn-greenwald/greenwald-nsa-leaker-snowden-has-no-whistleblower-/
Seriously, WTF has happend here? Is this site just a GCHQ front? I found that while wondering what else they aren’t telling us.
great interview. just listened.
Thank you for posting this Ben Franklin.
Makes the visit to TI worthwhile.
It figures that Amy Goodman – Democracy Now (impeccable journalistic Integrity) would do this interview.
Thanks again.
Goodman’s a liberal imperialist. Somebody who tells her listeners to “make Obama do” something is just a huckster for capitalist entrenched power. She never bothers to mention what Obama does to activists who actually get out and do important work in liberating the working class.
A “journalist” who believes Obama is an improvement over Bush should be fired, especially one who claims to stand for the left.
Look PutShitIntoIt….You have a serious problem recognizing positives. Your real good with pointing out negatives but you never bring any positives to the table.
Ms. Goodman did this objective interview with Mr. Assange and you have the audacity to imply that her political affiliation and/or views might impact on that interview???
Fuck off!
@PSBI-“Goodman’s a liberal imperialist. Somebody who tells her listeners to “make Obama do” something is just a huckster for capitalist entrenched power. She never bothers to mention what Obama does to activists who actually get out and do important work in liberating the working class.”
This doesn’t make any sense, especially WRT Assange.
quote”This doesn’t make any sense, especially WRT Assange”unquote
PutStarsOnit and sense = oil and water.
No need to thank me lyra. My role is ‘petulant observer’ and i take no credit for the work of others.
‘The Sledgehammer Worldview’ – Noam Chomsky
snip..
‘The U.S.-U.K. invasion of Iraq was a textbook example of aggression. Apologists invoke noble intentions, which would be irrelevant even if the pleas were sustainable.
For the World War II tribunals, it mattered not a jot that Japanese imperialists were intent on bringing an “earthly paradise” to the Chinese they were slaughtering, or that Hitler sent troops into Poland in 1939 in self-defense against the “wild terror” of the Poles. The same holds when we sip from the poisoned chalice.
Those at the wrong end of the club have few illusions. Abdel Bari Atwan, editor of a Pan-Arab website, observes that “the main factor responsible for the current chaos [in Iraq] is the U.S./Western occupation and the Arab backing for it. Any other claim is misleading and aims to divert attention [away] from this truth.”
In a recent interview with Moyers & Company, Iraq specialist Raed Jarrar outlines what we in the West should know. Like many Iraqis, he is half-Shiite, half-Sunni, and in preinvasion Iraq he barely knew the religious identities of his relatives because “sect wasn’t really a part of the national consciousness.”
Jarrar reminds us that “this sectarian strife that is destroying the country … clearly began with the U.S. invasion and occupation.”
The aggressors destroyed “Iraqi national identity and replaced it with sectarian and ethnic identities,” beginning immediately when the U.S. imposed a Governing Council based on sectarian identity, a novelty for Iraq.’
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/24796-noam-chomsky-the-sledgehammer-worldview
Same Chomsky who said back in January that there really is no “police state” in the U.S.?
Do liberal imperialists actually believe they look cool quoting Chomsky?
Noam Chomsky simply would love to lay the entire blame for the sectarian divide in Iraq (entire Middle East?) at the feet of the US. If that means lying to achieve that goal, then he’ll be happy to portray a “myth” of a sectarian divide in Iraq (prior to the US invasion of Iraq):
“……“this sectarian strife that is destroying the country … clearly began with the U.S. invasion and occupation.”……”
According to Shiapedia, these are lies or gross distortions of reality (or flat out ignorance which seems improbable for Chomsky – or any other source):
“………The Shi’as nevertheless have suffered immense persecution since the beginning of the 20th century resulting in various revolts and consequent massacres. Revolts by Shi’ite tribes in the mid 1930s against the dominating Sunni authorities resulted in the Iraqi air force and army attacking villages. Prior to the 2003 Iraq War, Iraqi Shi’ites were persecuted severely by the Ba’ath Party, particularly under the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein that lasted just over two decades.
Under Saddam, Ashura and Arba’een gatherings were banned and various clerics were subjected to brutal forms of torture and subsequently death. During his tenure, Saddam ensured that majority of the Shi’as in Iraq lived in constant fear and he became responsible for the deaths of thousands of Shi’ites. Some families would lose four, five or six members in a day and at times hundreds of arrested Shi’as would be killed and thrown into mass graves.[17] In 1980, Ayatullah Mohammad Baqir al-Sadr along with his sister Amina bint al-Huda were imprisoned, tortured, and executed. In March of 1991, a series of anti-government uprisings took place, but were repressed with brutal and indiscriminate force of Saddam’s security forces. In the city of Karbala, the shrines of Imam Husain ibn Ali (as) and Abbas ibn Ali were heavily damaged due to artillery shelling. Kamal Hussein Majid, who was leading the assault against the Shi’ites stood on a tank outside the shrine of Imam Husain (as) and shouted “Your name is Hussein and so is mine. Let us see who is stronger now” and then gave the order to open fire.[18] Thousands of unarmed civilians were killed by indiscriminate fire from tanks, helicopters and later security forces began executing people on the streets, in homes and in hospitals. Doctors and nurses treating the wounded were arrested and killed, while patients were thrown out of hospital windows to their death.[19]
The number of Shi’ite clerics in Najaf was reduced from eight to nine-thousand in 1972 to two-thousand in 1982 and to 800 in the early 90s. Roughly 105 relatives, staff, students and senior clerics associated with Ayatullah al-Khoei were arrested after the 1991 uprisings and were never seen again.[20] Due to the brutal massacre in 1991, no plot or second uprising came near to unseating Saddam despite attempts, until the 2003 Iraq War.[21] [a war of liberation for the Shia and Kurds]…….” My addition in brackets……..”
Craig..
Please provide a link to your evidence (Shiapedia).
ps – Referenced below is a validated link w/ respect to the suspect trial of Mr. Hussein
http://www.rense.com/general74/kurds.htm
http://www.theshiapedia.com/index.php?title=Persecution_of_Shia_Muslims
Persecution of the Shia Muslims has been going on for some 1400 odd years.
Saddam’s regime was cruel to the Shias, but the Saudi hand in promoting anti-Shia sentiments is also all over.
The Saudi Monarchy has been especially active in Bahrain suppressing the political rights of the majority Shia population.
Thanks
Mr. Chomsky’s review is certainly consistent with the volume of other historical data regarding the Middle East that I have read from numerous other sources — although those sources are predominately foreign. But then, if there is a problem in Iraq which has the potential to make a global impact; it is only fair to listen to what the Iraqi’s have to say about what is occurring in their country. Russia and Iran have sided with Iraq.
Anyway, here is one supporting link:
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2014/06/us-in-iraq-geopolitical-arsonists-seek.html#more
If one does the further historical research, it becomes apparent that the basis of U.S. involvement in the Middle East is not benign.
I also found this to be thought provoking:
http://journal-neo.org/2014/07/03/the-strange-case-of-nouri-al-maliki/
WTF is this?
https://hodor.alf.nu/org/firstlook/-/theintercept/document/2014/05/19/sso-may-3-2013-mystic/
Is THIS why youse guys ain’t coming across wit da goods? Playing King Whacker? I got Plantagenet Warts. Call me when they pull out the copper tubing.
Seriously, what the fuck is that? is that where all my hobbit hopes go? Down the dark toilet?
and why is it all out of its
Ding dong…
I’d love to leave these linked sausages a moment of my dwell time, but comments are disabled at this spooky site, no? That last moment you cross west over the Blies at the old Roman road. Of course I can’t find the link to that snoopy snippet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH4L1kyecoU
Are those comments closed to you? They are to me. google has been cutting me off and leaving me out of the loop for too fracking long, John. tTme for proof of life, again, “Ding dong.”
Nope, that German Cross still flies with the GERMAN MILITARY. Achter lieber!! Who knew NATO shares…?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH4L1kyecoU
Here’s same day but a different piece of their sweep with a different source name.
Sorry to be so reverberative, but this signal just won’t quit me. Sounds like 1973. I thought the Germans didn’t LIKE folks photographing their places, but this is OK? Is that military cross really on that camera box? OMG!! I would have missed a Meatball.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/07/a-devastating-leak-for-edward-snowdens-critics/373991/
“The founder of Lawfare has finally declared that a national-security-state employee perpetrated a huge civil-liberties violation! Remember this if he ever again claims that NSA critics can’t point to a single serious abuse at the agency. Wittes himself now says there’s been a serious abuse.
The same logic applies to Keith Alexander, James Clapper, Michael Hayden, Stewart Baker, Edward Lucas, John Schindler, and every other anti-Snowden NSA defender. So long as they insist that Snowden is a narcissistic criminal and possible traitor, they have no choice but to admit that the NSA collected and stored intimate photos, emails, and chats belonging to totally innocent Americans and safeguarded them so poorly that a ne’er-do-well could copy them onto thumb drives. ”
True….Do you suppose that the American people will now rise to claim their inalienable rights not to mention those granted UP Amendment IV of the U.S. Constitution? Do you suppose that American people will now understand the necessity to make the individual choice to speak out against the erosion of their other Constitutional rights? Will the American people uphold the Constitution of the United States of America by defending their own rights from the numerous domestic enemies which have most certainly infiltrated the USG, and now threaten to abolish the principles upon which the Country was founded?
They should, because right now it is the only lifeline.
Or will they continue to play the stupid political and intellectual games centered upon the best laid plans and whims of the International Banking Cartel? After all…we are discussing one world government, one economic rule, one ruler over the many….one dictatorship, one feudal lord over what is left of all human serfs, one god over many slaves…..Not a pretty picture.
Just some things to think about….The answers are within each individual. Please choose wisely.
It seems that the staff and editors of The Intercept are either unwilling or unable, to provide further insight into the matter of mass government surveillance at this time. I hesitate to explore the ramifications of that, but I am grateful that the Snowden evidence went to Mr. Bart Gellman.
Thanks for post suave. Best wishes to you.
Conor cedes much benefit of the doubt in this argument, imo. He finishes:
The frame of “safeguarding data” assumes a benign intent in the first place. It takes the category of “incidental” at face value, when history both short and long suggest calculated euphemism.
“medical records sent from one family member to another, résumés from job hunters and academic transcripts of schoolchildren. In one photo, a young girl in religious dress beams at a camera outside a mosque. Scores of pictures show infants and toddlers in bathtubs, on swings, sprawled on their backs and kissed by their mothers. In some photos, men show off their physiques. In others, women model lingerie, leaning suggestively into a webcam …”
COINTELPRO collected the same exact content. We’re to assume its now stored for back door search because it’s no longer valuable? Please. The argument deserves no credulity.
this was COINTELPRO’s bread and butter. It’s no longer valuable but we need to keep it anyway. Right.
Seriously…WTF is this? Is this a form of German domestic use of security items one might get from the NSA store?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsQ2NNYTidI
You are traveling the streets of Zweibrucken at sunrise August 2013. A beautiful morning in what is more often a smokey sinkhole of fog and haze. Three ranges block the view from the east. This sweep goes on under other poster names as I know my way from Zwei to Homburg and have pieced the posts together with the help of google’s netholes.
I see no ghosts, but what about the old German Cross captured in the reflection of the passenger window when it drifts right. That’s not right. No uniform serves under that cross, today, only safe for old warriors to wear like advancing rebels. Is the camera posted on top of a box with such a cross bite on it?
What is going on in this rubbery duck of an old car? Is someone surveilling the area at sunrise to capture autos’ plates? Note the blurry faces…automatically p[erformed? That can’t be free. You know those sends you get where one must retype a word or number these days to prove you are human? How human is it to perform analysis on unsuspecting people’s plates and addresses and not GET PAID for it? Huh?
I’d LOVE to go there and look into this, but I haven’t a port to pass in.
Anyone else find it surprising that there are no comments to view at Der Spiegel’s stories ? Or is that a special POV provided for me by goog, the gog of tranpornation?
Hanging in the balance; NATO health and the West’s answer to BRICS. It’s a big deal. No doubt about it.
http://rt.com/news/170868-merkel-spy-scandal-serious/
“Washington has not yet commented on the matter, however.
Despite the uproar the double agent scandal has caused among German politicians, the government in Berlin has been quick to assure Washington that the issue will not affect ongoing talks on a free trade deal between the European Union and United States.
“The Americans are important partners for Germany including of course in economic terms, so the TTIP (Translatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership) talks … are not in question or in doubt,” government spokeswoman Christiane Wirtz said, Reuters reported.
Time to haul out the old farts on TV to freak to folks too tired to think about this congame like it’s “NAFTA on Steroids,” which it is. Corporatism’s final blow. Contract rights trump nations’ sovereignty under that detestable and unknowable horror. But if we need to know, don’t you know we know it?
Repetition is the act of doing or saying something over and over and over again.
An example of repetition is someone constantly saying they are sorry.
Repetition is the act of doing or saying something over and over and over again.
An example of repetition is someone constantly saying they are sorry.
Repetition is the act of doing or saying something over and over and over again.
An example of repetition is someone constantly saying they are sorry.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/repetition
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Platitude?s=t
Omidyar’s senior aide at White House “conference” on June 25 to discuss the privatization of and private investment in U.S. domestic programs, among other issues (like lifting regulations on overseas investments).
http://www.omidyar.com/news/us-national-advisory-board-issues-policy-recommendations-encourage-impact-investing
better those foundations who in the past represent the private and public sectors than companies like Halliburton. All those who committed at that meeting were many names of gifters on PBS and other socially conscious affiliations. What is the beef with what he did, by your comment? Why point it out if you don’t have an opinion on it. The link shows you probably didn’t read the article, if you did what is your point. Thanks for posting it. So Omidyar is interested in investing in socially conscious issues, so what. That is a good thing, and hopefully the more wealth spread around and doing things to help society all the better. I am guessing you really were burned by Omidyar somehow. What the heck is your problem with Glenn being affiliated with him. Be specific or stop crying about their connection, it just makes you look worse the more you post here. Probably you were planted but as you know there are enough people here to refute your posts if they are confrontational. Why not read an article and make a sincere conclusion and then comment. Just setting links and using derogatory statements about GG is not productive, despite what you imagine, other than to possibly allow you to feel good when you do it.
Yes we should trust this multi-billionnaire because he’s so benevolent and has the interests of the U.S. working class at the top of his list to be benevolent towards. The best evidence we have that he respects the working class is his donations to USAID in facilitating the coup in Ukraine. Go Omidyar! What a great guy!
are all the facts out about the coup in Ukraine. My friend just fled from Crimea, a US citizen who moved there 10 years ago and even he and others still do not have all the facts on what went on there. We know there were attrocities, we know Putin is an ass and ego maniac but who was Omidyar supporting? I admit to not know the specifics on this so if you could site an article that I can read I would appreciate it. This would shed light for me.
Pando did an article on it although they did not seem to account for every single dollar.
http://pando.com/2014/02/28/pierre-omidyar-co-funded-ukraine-revolution-groups-with-us-government-documents-show/
`marianne..
Mr. Greenwald’s response to ‘pando’ article.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/01/journalistic-independence/
An interesting wikileaks cable.
(U) SECRETARY CLINTON’S DECEMBER 9, 2009 MEETING WITH UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER PETRO POROSHENKO
http://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09STATE129520_a.html
I suspect that you are looking for historical data related to the US Involvement in the Ukraine. This article is not comprehensive to all of that data, but the author has written several books pertaining to the underlying motivation and objectives in that involvement. Hope it helps.
http://hendersonlefthook.wordpress.com/2014/07/05/the-chocolate-king-other-fairy-tales/#more-170
You might take a look at the work of Russia scholar, Stephen F. Cohen, (Princeton, NYU)who can tell all you may wish to know of Russia since the Bolshevik Revolution up to the present.
http://www.thenation.com/article/178344/distorting-russia#
The article begins
and is quite interesting. You are familiar, from your reading GG, with the obsequiousness of the MSM and its distortions of reality that paint the US Government as the One True Democratic Government, the Final Arbiter of Truth & Justice in a world of lies and deceit.
So, marianne, are you suggesting it’s a good thing that this particular billionaire, Omidyar, donates funds from his tax exempt foundation (into which he very likely donates most of his income so as to avoid paying income taxes) to CIA front organizations which expend their efforts in overthrowing democratically elected governments and installing questionable people in new illicit governments that do the bidding of a global cabal of criminal bankers?
Is that what liberals do these days? Or by what word do you describe the political stance that supports, or at least, excuses such behaviour?
http://pando.com/2014/07/06/why-did-greenwald-agree-to-government-plea-to-hold-major-nsa-story-but-the-post-didnt/
Title of Pando article:
This article’s title immediately reminded me of a Cracked.com article from years back, titled “How to Spot a BS political story in under 10 seconds.” http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-to-spot-b.s.-political-story-in-under-10-seconds/
No. 4 is: The Headline Ends in a Question Mark
If you have been following the NSA stories closely, the first thing you should have asked yourself when reading this Pando article is if what Glenn was slated to report is equivalent to what the Post reported yesterday. This guy from Pando sure thought so:
Yeah, “apparently.” The problem with this dubious claim is that Greenwald said he was going to reveal the NAMES of US citizens who were either spied on or whose information was collected. The WP article DID NOT do this. It reported about “incidental” collection pulling reams of US citizen data but it didn’t name any names! This Pando piece is therefore bullshit, just read another quote from it that is filled with qualifying language and question marks
This is my favorite part. At the beginning of the article the author asked if Greenwald got scooped. But by the end of the article, this Paul Carr guy had apparently convinced himself of the answer when he says:
Pretty shoddy reporting Pando.
Worse than shoddy, it’s just plain dishonest, unless Paul Carr is a moron.
Marcy wheeler has been taking Carr to task on twitter, not only for that story but about two others (one is a dishonest crap piece about her).
From Marcy on twitter:
@paulcarr What a GREAT question that would have been to ask before you published your THIRD fictional piece in 10 days. @ggreenwald
That’s part of a series of a back and forth.
Appreciate that you’re pointing this out, Nate.
Banjo,
Greenback$’ new pivot away from his dropping the ball is saying that his “new” piece coming up (when Greenback$ when) is not “about” what Gellman wrote about. Could this asshole be any more of a disingenuous liar?
And why spending so much time on British royalty unless he’s just trying to deflect away from dropping the ball and sucking up to Omidyar. Because Boss Omidyar doesn’t want any problems getting favorable legislation passed, even if it means shutting up Greenback$. He’s paid enough $$ to shut up isn’t he?
There’s also this from Glenn:
.@mtopper66 That excellent WashPost article relates a little to our forthcoming article, but mostly it’s a wholly different issue.
My guess is that Glenn’s piece is about surveillance of political dissidents and/or blanket surveillance by group membership, such as by race/ethnicity or political affiliation.
Wow, how shocking. I’m sure the pitchforks will come out at that “news.”
Greenback$ got pwned. Just own it.
Nobody should be taking Marcy Wheeler seriously, no matter what you think about Carr’s piece. Wheeler’s a libertarian capitalist who let greed and ignorance steer her to working for a pro Neonazi billionnaire. She also writes for the Cato Institute. What more needs to be said? 2003 called – they want their bipartisan capitalist mouthpiece back.
Wha? PSBT is defiantly off the feedbag. The green giant is having his jolly way with the poor sap’s vine. Anyone who reads here already knows the way proper gandizing rolls, sos what’s your beef with these fishes, icehole?
You aren’t one of them? You might qualify for amplifying their reason for being by being so obviously bitter, vine biter. But is that the best you guys got?
I got Engels going to Manchester to learn why social ignorance will bite your own arse off. To be honest, the wheel seems rather greasy what with all the new slick, but at least one can leave a word there edgewise. I’m obstructed like a sack of hacks under Scotland Yard’s arse in this here joint. Any chance it’s haunted?
At least have the testicular fortitude to back your dismissal of Wheeler with some actual analysis or narrative instead of just a bunch of character assassinations. Regardless of whether she wrote for CATO or any other interest group, rational people judge others on the actual content of their work, not just their associations or based on a juvenile ability to spew off a bunch of idiotic buzzwords and empty bullshit: “libertarian capitalist”! “working for a pro Neonazi billionare,” “bipartisan capitalist mouthpiece”!
Your schtick has to be just an internet persona. People aren’t this stupid in real life.
Somehow I think Marcy Wheeler’s reputation will survive the incoherent rantings of some random moron playing at being an anarchist on an obscure website.
Seems to me you blind readers can’t read between the empty space, Houston.
This joint is in shut down. They are being challenged as to whether they have the journo creds to count among those who may still weigh in like a Risen. With cover, Senate approved organs are chumming it up, but who knows what’s still in the water if you listen to those losers…
Both NYTs and WaPo covered for Tea Pot Dome until WaPo got caught in the cozy. Amazon has us covered, too, no doubt.
This Dome needs flipping off. If there are subjects to this intrusion, I for one would not want to be denied a right to know as 5000 of NewsUK’s hacking targets were obstructed that horrific view. I’ve been trying to get them to blow their lids Tea Pot Dome Style since 2008. No, GCHQ, I’m not referring to Greystone, but if you check out Chandler’s High Window, you’ll get my drift. Don’t look when you’re high, Q.
Kate Crawford, limpid on Big Data
http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/the-anxieties-of-big-data/
“If the big-data fundamentalists argue that more data is inherently better, closer to the truth, then there is no point in their theology at which enough is enough.”
This is a brilliant article on the anxiety of perceived control and the reality that, when in search of the absolute minimization of threats, the ends can never be met, because the means do not exist, and never will, to control and interpret the amount of information being collected.
Also implied yet forgotten is the often repeated refrain from the NSA and other intelligence analysts of yore that it isn’t the size or amount of data that matters – but how well you can interpret what you already have – all In order to have the much desired effect of protecting those who pay your salaries.
This also exemplifies the deification of fear – in that much like ancient ideologies that hold the threat of damnation over the heads of those being protected to ensure compliance during their reign on earth, the Big Data collectors hold the treat of unnamed and as yet unimagined harm over the head of those they are assigned to protect, all done in order to gain acceptability for the subjugation of civil liberties and personal individuality that must occur in order to meet these supposed, always imminent threats.
In the end the truth-sayers have the burden of proving such -in the full light of day. It is up to us tohave the courage to make that happen.
“Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that
something else is more important than fear.”
– Ambrose Redmoon
Short answer: To protect the wealth of the ruling elites and neoliberal capitalism worldwide.
“Short answer: To protect the wealth of the ruling elites”
That’s been self evident for quite some time. As in forever.
yes, a not so distant cousin to the “1% doctrine”
*nods*
The more ‘anticipatory’ society becomes, the less ‘participation’ becomes possible.
“The more ‘anticipatory’ society becomes, the less ‘participation’ becomes possible.
Absolutely fucking nailed it. Speechless.
Thanks. Crawford asks “the big question” at the end of that piece, where is the radical potential? It’s ringing in my head. These are the stakes.
re: ‘New Progressivism’
Q: “Sounds eminently reasonable. What’s stopping us?” `silly
A: “This also exemplifies the deification of fear – in that much like ancient ideologies that hold the threat of damnation over the heads of those being protected to ensure compliance during their reign on earth” `silly
@suave – what is this ‘New Progressivism’ you speak of; and do you a specific concern? I can try to decode your rhetorical leaps and bounds, but I’d rather respond to more specific concerns to avoid any confusion.
Regards, Sillyputty
`sillyp..
re: ‘New Progressivism’
Fuk’dit.
`sillyp
re: ‘New Progressivism’
‘Any attempt to impose institutional prayer or inscribe the idea of a god upon the public, regardless of the religion, is a violation of the separation of church and state.’ [snip]
http://theprogressivecynic.com/2012/10/18/how-many-americans-misunderstand-the-separation-of-church-and-state/
“Progressives hold that all people are equal in the eyes of God”
Oh, I see. Thanks for responding a bit more clearly. I disregard any religious qualifications for any group, because I consider it irrelevant to the main point(s) of moving things forward as a diverse society.
Religion in my view is deeply personal – something that public policy is not; and the fact that I quoted Podesta word-for-word doesn’t mean that I agree with everything he says – nor do I think he does, actually – I think that these days the pronouncement of religious affectations such as this are done more for political reasons, so as not to seem intolerant to whoever Podesta and others think their “group” audience is.
So in the end I don’t misunderstand the separation of church and state at all, Podesta may; but I do recognize that some who hold religious beliefs for political or personal reasons will flout them to reach their intended audience.
It’s a relatively small thing that I often overlook in policy statements like this, realizing that pragmatically, and despite the recent oddball rulings from SCOTUS on Hobby-Lobby, et .al, that in the end the separation will remain and most likely get stronger – based largely in part to the growing audience of citizens that reject both carte-blanche corporate/government rule, as well as any form of sanctified religious governance.
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.”
– Robert A. Heinlein
Off topic comment: Last month, I wasn’t able to load The Intercept website from my browser. I had to go through TORBrowser for a few weeks. I tried this in both Windows and Linux from my laptop. Has anyone else had problems accessing this website through normal means?
I live in Ireland, my ISP is UPC, I tried to post a similar comment when I first noticed this but they never showed up in the comments. After I tried that, out of nowhere, I am able to access this website again through normal means.
Has anyone else experienced this problem?
PS: I know that my actions are stored forever by XKeyScore (because I’ve looked at (linuxjournal.com (http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/nsa-linux-journal-extremist-forum-and-its-readers-get-flagged-extra-surveillance) and am viewed as an extremist
Im curious to know, has anyone else had any same experience?
http://hodor.alf.nu/com/politifact/www/-/punditfact/statements/2014/jan/07/glenn-greenwald/greenwald-nsa-leaker-snowden-has-no-whistleblower-/
What happened here? Is this a normal glitch or is the Intercept GCHQ’s bitch? I just fell on this while wandering through this forest, Wit Acre. Something to do with Johnny One Time.
AP Using Robots For Journalism Starting In July
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ap-using-robots-journalism-starting-205847151.html
Could use a few of those here lol.
Imagine a stock crashing because of a couple of commas and periods misplaced in earning reports by the robots.
It WILL happen.
Which country does the most good for the world? The US is not even in the top 10. Surprised?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X7fZoDs9KU
The good country index http://www.goodcountry.org
And an interesting tip from our friends at EFF to Android users.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/07/your-android-device-telling-world-where-youve-been
Worth noting that their Deeplinks blog, and EFF (dot) org generally, are a useful and lively collection of info, very much on point to TI readers.
Sidebar: ACLU No. California rounds up info on the Stingray surveillance program.
https://www.aclunc.org/publications/stingrays-most-common-surveillance-tool-government-wont-tell-you-about
Right on!
“Most Patriotic Float”
In New Mexico, the Arroyo Seco 4th of July Parade Selects Activists As Most Patriotic
“Activists, whistleblowers, and muckrakers received an unexpected honor when Love-In-Action Taos marched in the Arroyo Seco Fourth of July Parade. Love-In-Action’s Unsung Heroes procession, joined by members of CODEPINK Taos, featured five giant puppets of Rosa Parks, Sadako Sasaki, Amy Goodman, Dolores Huerta, and Winona LaDuke; over seventy prayer flag banners honoring those who work for social change, large banners and signs, and informational fliers to hand out to the crowd.
“To the marchers surprise, they were awarded a prize for “Most Patriot” by the Arroyo Seco Merchants Association – a decision that brought whoops of joy and tears to their eyes. It is rare that activists, whistleblowers, and muckrakers are acknowledged for the important roles they play in our society.”
@Kitt – Gotta’ love this comment board…anyway, the “Right on!” above (not to take away from coram’s post) was intended for your “Most Patriotic Float” award. Brings a bit more hope back into the equation!
“It is rare that activists, whistleblowers, and muckrakers are acknowledged for the important roles they play in our society.”
With action comes change. Thanks for speaking out. Hopefully the stage is set for more to come.
Regards, Sillyputty
Dr. Alveda King speaks to Alex Jones on the topic of black genocide:
http://www.infowars.com/alveda-king-while-we-marched-in-the-sixties-planned-parenthood-was-preparing-us-a-place/
[AUDIO]
youtube.com/watch?v=fMg9MmSShLk
Will never click on a link to that piece-of-shit web site, but let me guess… it’s about abortions… they call it genocide when women have a tiny group of cells removed in a completely legal procedure to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. Yes, that sure sounds like a splendid interpretation of the word genocide…. for right wing idiots that is. They could not care less about children.
These same people thing it is OK to make laws that force a women to submit to being raped by the state with a medical device in order to get an abortion.
Oh,so now its a tiny group of cells.Sheesh.You abortion lovers sure seem to like euphemisms eh?Oh,abortion,the liberal clutching of progeny destruction for convenience.Reminds me of the war of terror,killing others so we can enjoy our hedonistic lifestyle.
When you lie down in sh*t,don’t expect us to tell you it smells good.
Is it something besides a tiny group of cells? A potential human life, like a sperm and egg? Would you save all the sperm and eggs just in case they get together someday and create a potential human life? Do you support access to birth control, and sex education so there will be fewer abortions? If you don’t, you are the abortion lover, not me.
Do you vote for people who care about the children enough to not kick them and their families off of the snap program after the economy has been destroyed by powerful and unaccountable assholes? Probably not. Do you give a shit about children at all?
I am not an “abortion lover” as you have described me. I am in favor of a woman controlling her own body’s reproductive system, without interference from right wing extremists and one-issue murdering terrorists that justify killing and maiming to protect a small group of cells that has the potential to someday be a human being. Bite me.
do we own our own bodies or not ? ? ?
if so, the question of abortion answers itself…
if not, you have the morals of a psychopathic authoritarian…
(which is to say, no morals at all…)
The communists love Reggae too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaerapRPS64
Reggae is just one song, adaptively reused with alternate lyrics for different recordings and performances.
The only other one song thing I accept is “we don´t need no education” ;-)
Sorry, I did forget:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NavVfpp-1L4
Your description is most apt for you own posts… not so much when it comes to Reggae music, which has the soul that is lacking in your particular brand of projectile oral effluent.
debbie can roll it nice and easy, or like Ike on crack cocaine, fog brain. You both smell to higher heaven.
Nearly half are Americans, but I note this phrasing……..
“Among the most valuable contents — which The Post will not describe in detail, to avoid interfering with ongoing operations — are fresh revelations about a secret overseas nuclear project, double-dealing by an ostensible ally, a military calamity that befell an unfriendly power, and the identities of aggressive intruders into U.S. computer networks.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-nsa-intercepted-data-those-not-targeted-far-outnumber-the-foreigners-who-are/2014/07/05/8139adf8-045a-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html
Drip, drip drip…..
>”Drip, drip drip …”
Actually Ben, I thought the news that the NSA collected private/personal communications about the POTUS , as part of (terrorist?) SIGINT operations, 1227 times during the past four years … fairly fucking momentous.
*I awaited with baited-breath WH spokesperson explanation
Who’s in charge around here … the mind reels?
That almost seemed fake to me, just because I find it shocking that no one seems to care how dangerous that is to democracy. Of course Obama was presumably a sell out long before that, but it seems odd that people wouldn’t be more concerned about the huge potential for blackmail. And if they’ve collected that info on Obama, it’s not much of a stretch to assume that they also have files on many other elected officials.
And we’re supposed to care about the ruling class being spied on …. why? These people aren’t your friends. Unless of course you’re Pierre “Revolving White House Door” Omidyar or Glenn “I Vet Thru the USG” Greenback$.
OK, I’m thinking maybe Tourette’s syndrome perhaps? I hate to diagnose from afar (or at all really), but do you blurt this shit out to people on the street? What other excuse/reason could there be for the repetitive tics you display in every post? I knew a guy who had the syndrome, and he was a very brave man. He would say things he had no control over and he still socialized with people, some of whom had no idea why he acted the way he did. I do not think your reason/excuse is likely to be as sympathy inducing, but maybe I’m wrong.
WOW you get a gold star
I direct your attention to the fall of a state education secretary who made a redundant fool of his supporters by attacking his competition and stroking himself online under terms and conditions that created an illusion of obtuseness. What a dope. I knew our email would be monitored, but he thought his lame style wouldn’t out if he left it in the press? What a wrinkled old mess. And then there’s his lame arse.
Yes. I wonder how early he knew this, but when we elect a President we expect some intestinal fortitude, like JFK’s upright middle finger; “I’ll break CIA into a million pieces”. ( there was a rumor that someone found his Day-Timer in a gutter with cryptic words about how he didn’t want to end up like Kennedy) Coercion of a sitting President is quite momentous and it would have been nice if he had called them out publicly, instead of nibbling around the PR edges that keep his domestic policies and his reputation for being genial and professional. But my comment stands. The drip is slow enough for dehyrdration.
He might not be popular but…
“I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world – no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”
? Woodrow Wilson
@Rolling with the times – the first part of the quote re: unhappiness seems questionable; however the second part has plenty of evidence to back up thew Wilson quote:
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Woodrow_Wilson
His and the congress’ other policies aside, this part seems particularly accurate even today:
“We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world – no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”
– Woodrow Wilson
Silly.. With respect to the ‘policies’ in question, are you referring to the ‘small group of men’ affiliated, Federal Reserve Act?
redux:
A case can be made that both Woodrow Wilson and his liberty inducing “quote”, were fraudulent..
Campaign Speech – 1911:
“A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men who, even if their action be honest and intended for the public interest, are necessarily concentrated upon the great undertakings in which their own money is involved and who necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations, chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom”
Woodrow Wilson
http://www.salon.com/2007/12/21/woodrow_wilson_federal_reserve/
Noted Sillyputty.
It isn’t information ABOUT he POTUS. Bart Gellman said those 1200+ instances were targets or incidentals mentioning the President (e.g if I typed “Prez Obama is a socialist!!”). Why that is minimized is beyond me. You’d think they’d minimize Presidential information based on sender/recipient and not mere mentionings.
The point is that your interpretation is not correct and is how misinformation spreads.
https://twitter.com/bartongellman/status/485604791867817986
Thanks Nate!
That makes much more sense. I was confused as to why blackmail information (if it exists) would be stored so insecurely, and why a bigger deal wouldn’t be made of evidence of the possibility for blackmail.
Marcy quoted this bit as significant:
http://www.emptywheel.net/2014/07/05/nsas-spying-medical-records-resumes-and-obama/
Marcy: “And all of this is available for back door search, for both “intelligence” and criminal purposes.”
Finally, something I have in common with the NSA.
“Minimized u.s. president
…
Some of them border on the absurd, using titles that could apply to only one man. A “minimized U.S. president-elect” begins to appear in the files in early 2009, and references to the current “minimized U.S. president” appear 1,227 times in the following four years.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-nsa-intercepted-data-those-not-targeted-far-outnumber-the-foreigners-who-are/2014/07/05/8139adf8-045a-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html
I laughed at that too. Wondered if that’s how Hope and Change morphed into more of the same. Dismissed that idea immediately, knowing Obama had been chosen and well-groomed for the advancement of corruption long before 2009.
Analysis today from Marcy.
http://www.emptywheel.net/2014/07/06/the-unaudited-tech-analyst-access-to-us-person-data/
NSA whistleblower Russ Tice: Snowden Revelations tip of the Iceberg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr3xwOnietA
Did Snowden have access to the raw data?
It seems like the WP article only says he accessed minimized data. That’s still a big deal (unbelievable really that he’d have such vast access to actual intercepts, and now I’m dying to know if he actually pulled some congress men’s communications as that would cause a real uproar) but if he could access the raw data he had the most valuable information of all.
“Pentagon preparing for mass civil breakdown
Social science is being militarised to develop ‘operational tools’ to target peaceful activists and protest movements”.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jun/12/pentagon-mass-civil-breakdown
Occam’s razor strongly indicates constitutional authority, elected & appointed, doesn’t actually run the USA. Puppets in the show mu
…st convince themselves otherwise to sleep well.
But Occam’s Razor would also suggest an explanation of “people often act immorally and purely in their own self interest,” therefore the elected officials could certainly be willingly ceding their power (or misusing it) due to bribes and other types of corruption. We don’t need a sort of shadow government when “people are just awful” explains current events fairly well. (there are probably thousands or millions of sociopaths that get along with and manipulate people far better than I ever could, so it’s not surprising that immoral and power hungry people would gravitate to elected positions of power)
JFK told us the elected were already so compromised they have no power.
This isn’t exactly news. Are you just now figuring this out?
To Coram.
Re: Four star rating, The Fortune Cookie
I checked it out, and it was well worth seeing again.
So much to say about the movies he either directed, produced, wrote, adapted for screen, original screenplays,
I am now on a Wild bender
Watched: Some like it hot (Tony Curtis) and Irma La Douce (Jack -the hardest working actor Wider ever directed-Lemon).
Double Indemnity later and then perhaps a little Kiss Me Stupid.
I will leave some for tomorrow.
Billy Wilder a genius.
Woody Allen believes that Double Indemnity is the best movie ever made.
You can watch Wilder’s A Foreign Affair in its entirety, in 12 parts, on YouTube.
Wilder’s no hero, though. He kept his nose clean and avoided the blacklist, but made a flippant remark dismissing those who suffered because of it.
“Fortune Cookie” is also on point in this thread in that the Defendants’ law firm bugs/surveills Jack Lemmon’s apartment, and Walter Matthau spots it and takes countermeasures. This element takes up much of the film.
Indeed coram. I saw that ( I always see that). I take for granted that when you say “check it out, coram says so” that precious knowledge pertaining to the subject or matter at hand , can be found in the medium you advise..
‘Putting airs on’ thinks less of Wilder because he
<kept his nose clean and avoided the blacklistFor keeping his nose clean and avoiding the blacklist is a crime to miss contrary.
Wilder made remarkable and heroic movies of varying genres.
Thanks coram
cheers jimmy
Who ever thought that a Jacuzzi could be an effective electronic countermeasure? Fun film, esp. when Whiplash Willie speaks into the microphone, and camera, at the end and turns the tables.
I sometimes wondered what happened to the communists after their political philosophy had been discredited. For a while they moaned about the Soviet Union not being a true implementation of communism, and then they went away. I thought maybe they were in the process of revising their ideology to make it relevant.
However, I see this effort failed and they simply became comedians on Twitter. Now they spend all day tweeting ‘What a bourgeois capitalist! LMAO’. Unfortunately, they tend to be as bad at comedy as they were at politics.
Dear Zelda,
FFS!
There is more current news at the Drudge Report about Edward Snowden, than has been here in a month. You all should hang your heads in shame.
Sadly,
We were duped.
Dear CitizenSane:
It is indeed sad when an alternative media site gets co-opted by a major media player. Especially when the only “news” being presented is in the comments section.
I suspect that you are right in your final analysis and it appears that Mr. Snowden has reconsidered his decisions as well.
Such is life.
Take care.
Zelda
Greenback$
I guess this might explain why Greenback$ runs to daddy USG for permission before publishing. Because he obeys his source every moment of every day!
Snowcone: “I want to help the government, not hurt it.”
Snowcone: “The documents are being released with the assistance of government stakeholders.”
Explaining why Greenback$ has no spine.
Where exactly is yours as you sit there hiding in obscurity?
Cowardice, defined.
At what point are people going to stop acting like we are not hearing variations on the same basic story. Come on, it’s been a fucking year.
Yep.
They sure screwed the pooch on this.
Or maybe, it was “screwed the Investor”.
July 5 Washington Post story on NSA: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-nsa-intercepted-data-those-not-targeted-far-outnumber-the-foreigners-who-are/2014/07/05/8139adf8-045a-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html
Can’t wait for you to post the July 6 WaPo story, I’m sure the Breaking! News! on the NSA! will make everybody get their signs written and descend on the White House en masses.
This is a must-read article. 90% of the intercepted communications that Snowden provided to the Post were “incidental.” That 90% may have been minimized! but was retained! as was the raw data which Snowden supposedly doesn’t have access to.
Didn’t mean to use exclamation points. Fucking iPad…
Thanks SO much for posting this link, Virginia. It got my blood to the boiling point again.
And now a nod to Citizen Sane –
Memo to The Intercept: Get with it already. It seems like other outlets are breaking NSA stories; but wasn’t that what The Intercept was founded for?
Just a thought: based on this article, it might be more sensible to just list the 5 people in the U. S. the NSA has NOT targeted or incidentally spied on.
The Washington Post has their story out about the actual thousands of communications that Snowden showed them. Something tells me the US government played Glenn again this time to delay his publishing and allow the WaPo to steal the scoop, just like Prism last year?
Approximately 25 minute radio/video interview recorded a couple of weeks ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcnHN6YVU-c
“Glenn Greenwald was recently in Los Angeles for a book tour event and spoke with Uprising host Sonali Kolhatkar.”
The Greenback$ hit parade never ends. Led by Banjo on the Amend the KKKonstitution float in the Celebrate Amerikkka! walk of shame.
Do people still watch those interviews? Same old drivel. Perhaps Sibel Edmonds was right after all.
Sounds a very familiar outcome of US meddling in the affairs of others.
Here’s the English version of WHITE BOOK ON VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND THE RULE OF LAW IN UKRAINE (NOVEMBER 2013 — MARCH 2014) produced by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation
http://www.mid.ru/bdomp/ns-dgpch.nsf/03c344d01162d351442579510044415b/38fa8597760acc2144257ccf002beeb8/$FILE/White%20Book.pdf
That story is from RT – http://rt.com/news/156840-ukraine-human-right-abuses/
Thanks for posting seer.
Very interesting and specific pp 30-34 of Whitebook.
Yes thank you so much seer, for posting human rights violations about Ukraine while you turn the other cheek and support oligarch billionnaires who fund the organized coups in the same soveriegn country. Could you be any more of a captitalist hypocrite. The answer is no.
But thank you seer for your fine bit of posting there.
Can one of the Greenback$ bots here tell us what it was like during his Obot period? When he was supporting Obama and telling you all to go out and vote for this asshole? What was that like? Did he get pushback from you all or did you just blindly accept Greenback$ in his chameleon change from Bush supporter to Obama supporter? And didn’t that raise any red flags for you, that possibly his entire shtick was a put-on to garner more readers and boost his celebrity but not much behind it?
Wasn’t he also supporting Democratic politicians during that time period, which by definition means he was supporting Zionists. Did you all hand his ass to him for that or did you go along with it and say “oh yes Greenback$ oh yes we will” and support all those war criminals? (looking at you Banjo)
” Posse Comitatus proscribes against cities being miltarized by U.S. military,”
Um. That..is exactly the point. These ‘gifts’ to local law enforcement are not gifts, at all. The Reconstruction growing pains made it quite evident, that, other than a National Guard presence, which is dubious under the Act to be kind, that Feds wanted to butt out completely. The excuse wrt connecting the dots, sharing intel through improved integrated communications, is due to the threat of terrorism. We know how broad and long that excuse extends, with full capitulation to higher authority, when that bell has been rung.
No, your point assumed only paramilitary–i.e., local law enforcement–beneficiaries of military equipment.
Posse Comitatus doesn’t pertain to paramilitary organizations. It pertains to U.S. military operating internally in an enforcement role.
Greenback$ definitely needs new material. Is he kidding with this shit? Who takes this guy seriously when he still believes it’s “news” that capitalist politicians don’t give two shits what side of an issue they take as long as it’s the side that benefits their class?
Oh yeah I keep forgetting, Greenback$ IS a capitalist mouthpiece. He was against the NSA before he was for it. He was against imperialists taking out Qaeda before he was for it. He was against Citizens United before he was … oh sorry, he was always for corporate protections at the expense of the working class.
I don’t recall hearing you’re opinion of Obama. Can you tell me what you think of him as the first black POTUS?
It’s your, not you’re.
Carries water for the ruling class, he’s just your basic capitalist front man for power and elites. Perfect for the job coming on the heels of Shrub and kneecapping the liberal wing, anti-war crowd, whatever. The ruling elites who put him there were aware of that when they chose him.
The POTUS can be purple, green, yellow, or puce for all I care. They’re all capitalists and they always will be capitalists, so who the fuck cares that he’s black. Well I guess you seem to care since you’re bringing it up. The liberal imperialists love them a black POTUS, no question. Makes them feel less guilty for the crimes committed in their name, I suppose. Maybe you can explain it to me.
“It’s your, not you’re.”
I think I can see your speciality. Tell me; who or what do you like?
It’s specialty, not speciality.
I think I can see that you can’t spell worth shit, but whatever. :p
Why do you care what or who I like if you disagree with what I say? Is this some kind of gotcha thingie game all the capitalists play with the anti-capitalists? Why do you care so much?
You never answered my question: did you ever vote for a democratic or a republican or other capitalist politician? Can you own up to your part in supporting the war crimes and atrocities and decimation of the working class? Unlike Banjo, I mean, who won’t acknowledge that he ever did anything wrong in voting for capitalists.
OK. Now you have permission to bugger off.
I’ll take that as a yes in response to my question.
Bourgeois apologist.
I believe “speciality” is a valid British English term.
“He was against Citizens United before he was for it. “unquote
You’re a liar of biblical proportions.
Indeed. Glenn was never against the NSA per se, either. He is against their engaging in illegal, warrantless surveillance of innocent American citizens. He was never against “taking out Al Qaeda.” And to my knowledge he has never expressed support for corporate protections at the expense of the working class. So you’re 0-for-four in that post. Enjoy your gold sombrero.
So he’s an imperialist. Thanks for helping to clear that up. That makes him an enemy of the working class. Sometimes he probably wouldn’t deny.
Yo, Grammar Gal..
What exactly are you trying to convey with this incoherent sentence?
Such complex reasoning! How do you manage it with so few working brain cells?
I think Libertarianism is a doggerel of confused and ambivalent politics. It’s easy to hide conservatism within that moniker. I have been observing it for some time and find it disingenuous. There is such a thing as left libertarianism, but it is squashed by the din of untoward comments. Just as liberals used to hide behind ‘independent’ when lynch mobs united to hand them by the neck until dead, so too conservatives seek shelter. It’s time to define the demarcation between Rand Paul conservatism and libertarians who don’t believe that highways and infrastructure should not be Federal but local. Where I agree with them is that Posse comitatus proscribes the militarization of local police with MRAPS and ordnance beyond their utility for law enforcement. The Vets returning from war and the PTSD demon afflict their families and the public when they are incorporated in a cop mentality. Taxpayer dollars funded the very suppression they were supposed to prevent.
Libertarians are reactionary capitalists who like to smoke dope and screw.They still want all the legislation that benefits their class, but the working class can take a hike as far as they are concerned.
Get used to surveillance capitalism, your boys brung it, I’m sure you voted for the capitalists who support it. Like Banjo, if you’ve ever voted, you’re part of the problem.
So they’re valueless yuppies and muppies who are take showers in their own narcissism whilst singing folk songs and quoting Hunter S. Thompson? Yeah. That sounds about right.
George Carlin identified them early on.
George Carlin was about liberty. Speech, 7 words the government wouldn’t let you say, anyone?
You could say them, just not on television. Or the radio either.
quote”Libertarians are reactionary capitalists who like to smoke dope and screw.”unquote
Says one who likes to molest little boys and expose himself to his sisters.
Feel better now? Honestly, if you’ve got nothing, just say you’ve got nothing. Those kinds of remarks are pathetic and need I say trollish.
Liberty, paleoconservatism, emphasis on increased self-responsibility only frighten your Big Government-dependency mindset, and you seek to minimize your personal launch and growth phobias with embarrassingly lightweight polemic.
“I think Libertarianism is a doggerel of confused and ambivalent politics. It’s easy to hide conservatism within that moniker. I have been observing it for some time and find it disingenuous.”
I find all political parties to be disingenuous. Issues are important, political parties are not. That is what the term “Independent” means. It allows one to view the issues without adopting a “party” perspective. An Independent can agree or disagree on any given problem issue with whatever party adopts the position and/or solution that most nearly corresponds to his/her own analysis.
In reality, on any given issue, all parties and subsets of those parties have individuals which present potential solutions that should be evaluated for merit, as opposed to discarding an opinion because it is coming from faction that one perceives to be worthless because of perceived party affiliation.
If one refuses party affiliation; one can be any combination of radical, conservative, moderate, or liberal that one wishes to be on any issue.
>em>”In reality, on any given issue, all parties and subsets of those parties have individuals which present potential solutions that should be evaluated for merit, as opposed to discarding an opinion because it is coming from faction that one perceives to be worthless because of perceived party affiliation.”
Very well said. Just as Greenwald’s and others journalism should judged on merit and accuracy rather than where it is from – so too with with ideas and solutions that are meant to address our societies misdirection.
No report on what is happening in our world and no attempt to right the wrongs of today should be discarded simply because of the ideologies of the source; because killing the messenger, pigeon-holing, and denying the facts only results in poor outcomes (Iraq war, anyone?) rather than the positive results that will move us all forward.
“Suppose that humans happen to be so constructed that they desire the opportunity for freely undertaken productive work. Suppose that they want to be free from the meddling of technocrats and commissars, bankers and tycoons, mad bombers who engage in psychological tests of will with peasants defending their homes, behavioral scientists who can’t tell a pigeon from a poet, or anyone else who tries to wish freedom and dignity out of existence or beat them into oblivion.”
– Noam Chomsky
That browser is old, tor is using a much newer browser, Knoppix is linux, its made from debian linux
Thought for the day:
“This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.”
– Frederick Douglass, 19th Century American social reformer, orator, writer and statesman.
In 1852, Douglass was asked to speak at the Rochester, New York, Fourth of July celebration. Here’s part of his speech:
I’m kind of surprised to see you posting quotes about power not conceding without demands. Aren’t you the one lambasting people who don’t vote and participating in the capitalist electoral process? WTF.
“I’m kind of surprised to see you posting quotes about power not conceding without demands. Aren’t you the one lambasting people who don’t vote and participating in the capitalist electoral process? WTF.”
I’m unsurprised that you are surprised; because the fact is that these two concepts are not mutually exclusive.
If one takes the time to read and reflect rather than to only react to what is being said here, one would realize that advocating a change in the electoral process and therefore using that “electoral demand” to get “power to concede” is actually what is being advocated.
“Democracy is, among other things, the ability to say ‘no’ to the boss. But a man cannot say ‘no’ to the boss, unless he is sure of being able to eat when the boss’s favour has been withdrawn.”
– Aldous Huxley, “Themes And Variations”
More on the rising tide in Germany.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/
“The German constitution, as interpreted by the constitutional court, defines privacy as a basic human right. That the U.S. is so casually violating the basic human rights of all German citizens is met with utter disgust.”
Do you blame them??? I agree with their mounting disgust and am ashamed that U.S. Citizens are so busy fighting party politics that they can’t seem to comprehend that the USG is also violating the provisions of the U.S. Constitution. At least the Germans are able to cross party lines in agreement and recognition of the Supreme Laws of their Country.
“and am ashamed that U.S. Citizens are so busy fighting party politics that they can’t seem to comprehend.”
I shan’t name names but the US is awash in ‘progressive’ blogs with chronic ethnocentrism. They are totally absorbed in regional controversies (LGBT, ACA, local elections) and those things are important to the Big Pic, but they do it to the detriment of Global issues.
Mr. Greenwald’s latest project???
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/05/369999/us-spying-on-muslims-smacks-of-nazis/
“The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has said American journalist Glenn Greenwald, whose reporting of documents leaked by Edward Snowden helped expose the scope and scale of US spying activities, will soon expose large-scale spying operations against American Muslims conducted by the US National Security Agency (NSA).”
I don’t think it’s a “project” of his. It’s part of what the documents he’d been writing and had planned to post last week, and will post soon, are about.
Of course.
Bring it on.
How earth shattering and fireworks inducing is this news. It’s not like it’s going to surprise anybody who has half a brain.
Can we really put stars by this? Frankly, where’s the fireworks show? The grand poobah finale?
Greenbacks is such a suck to power.
“We would reveal the big news but the government told us not to.”
A fake quotation written by PSBI attributed to Glenn Greenwald:
Real quotation posted 10 hrs ago by Greenwald on twitter:
It wasn’t govt objections – those we rejected months ago – it was an issue about accuracy of one claim – and it’s coming very soon.–GG
That “quote” I posted was actually somebody else’s tweet. I should have attributed it but now I don’t remember who it was. Trust me, the people who see through Greenback$ and his money grubbing political chameleon shtick are tweeting up a storm, and they’re hilarious. That was one of the funniest ones – “I was going to report the names but the USG told me not to.” LMAO.
You take care now Banjo. Don’t you have some robocalling to do to “amend” the KKKonstitution! :p
From your link:
“……..“After 9/11, America had a great hatred for people that didn’t look and act and think like we did, especially against Muslims. It was very easy to make Muslims the people that we hated, even though most Muslims, at least in my experience, have been very peaceful and observant,” said Dr. Walter M. Brasch in a phone interview with Press TV on Saturday…..”
You really have to enjoy that first sentence:
“……. “After 9/11, America had a great hatred for people that didn’t look and act and think like we did, especially against Muslims…….”.
Note the “Especially against Muslims” which means Americans hate all people “…..that [don’t] look and act and think like we [do]…..” (regardless of 911) since all 19 hijackers were Muslims. So we are just a nation of racists and bigots. The attacks of 911 just gave us a better excuse for hating Muslims than the one we had before. But isn’t hate just hate? The attacks of 911 really didn’t change our opinion of Muslimsl (at all) since we hated Muslims to begin with.
Just like individuals’ formative years are when they are young, civilizations also have formative years when they are young and develop certain attitudes, which last a long time.
West’s early encounters with Islam were negative. I won’t go into any details of why.
That created currents within the West that hated Islam.
These currents originally had very incorrect information about Islam. For example, they believed that the Muslims worshipped Muhammad who was anti-Christ, even though the Quran mentions Jesus in a positive way a lot, and accepts him as the Word and the Messiah and in his miraculous birth.
They even translated the Quran in the most inaccurate way to spread fear of Islam.
These anti-Islam currents within the West have existed since then.
However, there also emerged Western scholars who had a more positive view of Islam. There emergence is relatively recent in history.
In the West, a lot of effort was made to develop better interfaith understanding.
Their effort had successes.
But the evil acts of 911 committed by some Muslims, mostly Saudis, set the clock back, a few centuries, perhaps.
And now, spreading hatred of Islam is a widely accepted phenomenon in the West, not limited to those currents that hated Islam anyway.
For example, opposing the building of mosques is now more intense than it was before 911.
It’s more difficult for a Muslims to get a job now than it was before 911, especially those who look like Muslims.
Certain countries have even banned the wearing of head scarf.
The meaning of the term, Shariah, has been given such negative, and distorted, meaning that it is used now to scare people off.
Obviously, the emergence of radical Muslims and their distortions of Islam and its sacred terms is a significant factor.
But to suggest that hatred of Islam and Muslims hasn’t intensified in certain circles as a result of the evil acts of 911 is, I believe, erroneous.
This website has some interesting articles on hatred and fear of Islam.
http://www.loonwatch.com
I always enjoy your posts Sufi
I didn’t post to deny that there is racism and bigotry in the west. We know that this has existed for a long time. Certainly some of the anti-immigration in the US and Europe is driven by racism. And of course, there are always misunderstandings between cultures. A lot of bigotry and racism is driven by false characterizations of people from other cultures (including false characterizations about western culture).
My problem is with the wording by the author of the article in Lyra’s link (stated in my previous post) which gives the wrong impression of Americans. Americans and American laws are actually very tolerant. Again, this is not to deny there are racists and bigots in the US. We all have some tendencies for intolerance hidden away which spill out occasionally. For example, there was plenty of anti-Mormon bigotry that surfaced when Romney ran for President in 2012. But the author’s blanket labeling of Americans as having “great hatred” toward people that don’t look like them is blatantly false and ……well…..bigoted. The acceptance of this kind of false and misleading characterizations of Americans (especially at this site and other politically far left wing sites) is why I posted a response.
Finally, there has been a backlash against Muslims from the attacks on September 11, 2001. I think that is obvious. Muslim Americans like every ethnic, religious and racial community abide by the laws and appreciate living in a democracy. Any “labeling” of Muslims/Muslim communities is wrong. No sane person can deny that. However, some of the current blowback against Muslims comes from radical Islamists who are murdering people at an alarming rate world-wide especially in the “greater” Middle East and northern Africa to gain power like in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Iraq, Algeria, Kenya, Libya and Syria (etc.). Some comes from other spectacular attacks like 7/7 (Britain) and the Mumbai slaughter. Indeed, there are currently about 500 British Muslims fighting in Iraq and Syria which is alarming. Most attacks target civilians. None of this makes things any easier for Muslim-Americans who are as far physically and politically from that part of the world as the rest of us.
Thanks.
Hi Creg,
I agree with you.
I was just trying to point out that anti-Islam feelings have intensified in the West since the evil acts of 911, which were mostly committed by people from Saudi Arabia, a country that has been promulgating its Wahhabi, anti-Sufi/Shia, brand of Islam all over the world.
It’s this excluvist brand of Islam that begot OBL and the vicious currents within Islam that are wreaking havoc all over the world.
Thanks Sufi
Eventually the Monarchy in Saudi Arabia will run its course…..
Enjoy your weekend.
I don’t see how anyone outside of this country, seeing in the global media daily the next American drone attack killing innocent people, the next Congressman ranting about Sharia law and terrorist attacks on the homeland, the next protest with white people waving signs and screaming anti-immigrant rage…how can anyone look at that day after day and NOT think that Americans are not bloodthirsty, vengeful, insular, reactionary, dangerous people?
I think non-Americans have ample reason, given our recent behavior and what they see around them every day, to react negatively to Americans in general. Sorry your feelings are hurt being lumped in with the “bad apples,” but that’s the reality we have to live with now. We as a nation have allowed the bigots and reactionaries to lead our nation astray from the lofty ideals we used to represent. Now we live with the consequences.
“…how can anyone look at that day after day and NOT think that Americans are not bloodthirsty, vengeful, insular, reactionary, dangerous people?”
———
Given a chance, many, many non-Americans, especially from the so-called Third-World countries, would love to immigrate to America.
That’s because of the bad conditions in many of their countries, but also because there’s still a lot of tolerance, freedom and great opportunities, for higher education and jobs, in the U.S.
Despite a rise in intolerance, there are still those Americans who are reasonable and accommodating.
Had the evil acts of 911 taken place in a Muslim majority country, and carried out by a certain non-Muslim group, there would’ve been large scale massacres of innocent non-Muslims belonging to the religion of those evil doers.
As for freedoms, as a Muslim, I know that it is in the West that we can critically examine the errors of past generations and provide alternate interpretations without fearing our lives.
The same criticisms made in certain Muslim majority countries can lead to exile, and even death.
Case in point: a provincial governor called for a review of Pakistan’s Blasphemy Law, which resulted in his assassination by one of his body guards, who was then openly praised by many conservative Muslims.
This is the reason, many Muslims believe that the reformation of their religion is going to happen in the U.S., and then spread across the globe.
That said, it’s also very sad that even moderate Muslims are viciously attacked by some in the West, as happened to this American Muslim woman:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/05/heritage-muslim-benghazi_n_5559981.html
Well Rob, you and I are never going to agree on US foreign policy. I understand that. We could discuss the issues for a millennium without agreement on a single US policy. For example, I support droning the fuck right out of the Taliban in Pakistan which probably means I deserve to be lumped in with the bad apples. But my complaint with Dr. Walter M. Brasch was his inflammatory lies and bigotry directed at Americans which far left wingers seem to embrace.
Sorry. I won’t accept anti-American propaganda from extreme left wing nutcases (especially in a phone interview with Press TV considering they are the long arm of the Iranian state which is an anti-democratic and racist government).
Thanks Rob.
quote”The attacks of 911 really didn’t change our opinion of Muslimsl (at all) since we hated Muslims to begin with.”unquote
WE? Fuck you. Your inclusion of the entire Western mindset into your “we” is total fucking bullshit.. Fuck you again…and again and again. Oh, did I mention…fuck you? In case I didn’t..fuck you.
I was being sarcastic you idiot. It was Dr. Walter M. Brasch that made the suggestion you hate Muslims……..you idiot. Oh did I mention you were an idiot? You idiot Chronicle.
All I know is ,post 9-11,it gave me a lot more reasons to hate Zionism and its adherents.Take that to your lobotomized group home.
Interesting perspective on the new Middle East Caliphate from Glen Ford.
snip
http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/superpower-and-caliphate
@ seer:
I have also watched the Middle Eastern conflicts with an interest in US involvement. Found the following article to be worthy of consideration in evaluating casualty.
http://wtfrly.com/2014/06/29/the-chaos-in-iraq-is-by-design/
From your linked article:
Yes, I recall an incident in Basra during the second invasion when British black ops were arrested by local police – dressed as Muslims, they were caught setting a bomb in a mosque. The CIA was doing the same in Baghdad and other cities. The operation was intended to exacerbate sectarian tensions, and that mission *was* accomplished. Civil war is a useful condition for Western hegemony to exploit.
Now civil war has erupted in Ukraine, also instigated by the West.
On Ukraine, I found this article to be rather enlightening.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/18624-new-ukrainian-rulers-surrender-sovereignty-to-eu
There appears to be a unifying economic correlation between Middle East energy assets and Ukraine energy assets.
“……..Yes, I recall an incident in Basra during the second invasion when British black ops were arrested by local police – dressed as Muslims, they were caught setting a bomb in a mosque. The CIA was doing the same in Baghdad and other cities. The operation was intended to exacerbate sectarian tensions, and that mission *was* accomplished. …..”
I would love to see a source for that seer. You wouldn’t happen to have a link would you?
UK denies storming Iraqi jail to free soldiers
Reuter, 20 September 2005
British forces have freed two undercover soldiers from jail in Basra after a day of rioting in the Iraqi city that was sparked when the soldiers fired on a police patrol.
An Iraqi Interior Ministry official says British forces stormed the jail using six tanks and that dozens of Iraqi prisoners escaped during the raid.
But Britain’s Ministry of Defence says the release of the two soldiers had been negotiated and it did not believe the prison had been stormed.
“We’ve heard nothing to suggest we stormed the prison,” a ministry spokesman said.
“We understand there were negotiations.”
Lisa Glover, spokeswoman for the British embassy in Baghdad, says three people have been wounded in the operation to free the soldiers.
She did not give further details of how the soldiers were freed.
The events in the mainly Shiite city are likely to worsen relations between British forces responsible for security in southern Iraq and the local population.
Police and local officials say the two undercover soldiers were arrested after opening fire on Iraqi police who approached them.
They say the men were wearing traditional Arab headscarves and sitting in an unmarked car.
“They were driving a civilian car and were dressed in civilian clothes when shooting took place between them and Iraqi patrols,” an official in Basra said.
Mohammed al-Abadi, an official in the Basra governorate, says the two men looked suspicious to police.
“A policeman approached them and then one of these guys fired at him. Then the police managed to capture them,” Mr Abadi said.
“They refused to say what their mission was. They said they were British soldiers and (suggested) to ask their commander about their mission.”
Tank ablaze
Furious crowds pelted British armoured vehicles with rocks and petrol bombs after the shooting incident.
A British soldier was engulfed in flames as he scrambled out of a burning tank during the rioting.
He was pelted with stones by the crowd.
The tank tried to reverse away from trouble after it was attacked by Iraqis flinging petrol bombs, burning furniture and tyres.
Iraqis had driven through the streets with loudhailers demanding that the undercover Britons remain in jail.
Basra, capital of the Shiite south, has been relatively stable compared with central Iraq, where Sunni Arab insurgents have killed thousands of Iraqi and US troops, officials and civilians with suicide attacks, roadside bombs and shootings.
But relations remain tense between the British military and some local groups.
British Defence Secretary John Reid confirms in a statement that the two undercover soldiers are back with British forces, but sheds no light on their mission or how they were released.
“The situation in Basra is currently calmer after a day of disturbances,” he said.
“At this stage it is not possible to be certain why these disturbances began.”
The main ally of the United States, Britain said on Sunday it would if necessary increase the number of troops in Iraq, where it has about 8,500 soldiers.
Copyright Reuters 2005
http://www.globalresearch.ca/british-undercover-soldiers-caught-driving-booby-trapped-car/972
British special forces caught dressed as Arab ‘terrorists’
British soldiers have been caught posing as Arabs and shooting Iraqis in the occupied city of Basra in southern Iraq. A group of them was caught yesterday by Iraqi police. They were driving an Iraqi car, wearing Arab clothing, and carrying weapons and explosives.
The Iraqi police were patrolling the area looking for suspected “terrorists” or “insurgents”, and they noticed that the men were acting suspiciously. Suddenly, without warning, the suspicious men started shooting at people, but the new Iraqi security forces managed to capture some of them before they could escape. Obviously, if these men had not been caught, the mass media would now be reporting the incident as just another attempt by evil “terrorists” to create civil war in Iraq.
There have been a number of incidents in this area and throughout Iraq in which police and civilians have been targeted and killed by “terrorists” or “insurgents”. But this is the first time that any of those responsible have been caught in the act, and it is now clear that at least some of them are working directly for the occupying forces, as many Iraqis have openly suspected all along.
http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=1556
–Apple 03:38, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
The following Reuters report raises some disturbing questions.
Why were undercover British “soldiers” wearing traditional Arab headscarves firing at Iraqi police?
The incident took place just prior to a major religious event in Basra.
The report suggests that the police thought the British soldiers looked “suspicious”. What was the nature of their mission?
Occupation forces are supposesd to be collaborating with Iraqi authorities. Why did Britsh Forces have to storm the prison using tanks and armoured vehicles to liberate the British undercover agents?
“British forces used up to 10 tanks ” supported by helicopters ” to smash through the walls of the jail and free the two British servicemen.”
Was there concern that the British “soldiers” who were being held by the Iraqi National Guard would be obliged to reveal the nature and objective of their undercover mission?
A report of Al Jazeera TV, which preceeded the raid on the prison, suggests that the British undercover soldiers were driving a booby trapped car loaded with ammunition. The Al Jazeera report (see below) also suggests that the riots directed against British military presence were motivated because the British undercover soldiers were planning to explode the booby trapped car in the centre of Basra:
https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Talk:Basra,_Iraq_raid_by_UK_forces_to_rescue_soldiers_from_police
And from CNN –
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/09/19/iraq.main/index.html
Seer
I appreciate your effort in providing the sources. There is some speculation in the sources (al Jazeera) that suggest that the two British soldiers (dressed in traditional Arab head garb) were there to plant bombs – or to explode a car bomb in the center of Basra. The CNN story says that the British soldiers started firing at civilians and were captured. Another source says the British soldiers fired at and killed an Iraqi police officer. But there really is nothing about the soldiers planting bombs in any Mosque. None of your sources even mention the CIA – and the mission of the British soldiers is pure speculation until that information is released (or linked).
The US held the first (true) elections in Iraqi history in January 2005. The Iraqi people voted and proudly displayed their purple fingers. There no proof (that I have seen yet) that the US was employing a divide and conquer strategy. It simply made no sense in terms of holding elections in Iraq just a few months before the incident in Basra which you suggest was a part of a coalition divide and conquer strategy (your links). It also made no sense from a geopolitical point of view. Stability helped the US cause in Iraq – especially if – as some believe – that the US invaded for oil. It made no sense in terms of rebuilding Iraq (especially bringing the oil on line), in terms of the cost of the war, in terms of an increase in US and civilian casualties, in terms of the surge which brought the Sunni and Shia to the table, and ultimately, in terms of handing over Iraq to the number one enemy of the US in the Middle East, Iran – a huge geopolitical failure of the invasion. In fact, what is the benefit for the US to initiate a civil war – after an election which the US promoted as a success of the invasion?
However, I have no clue why the British soldiers were dressed as they were and fired on police and/or civilians. That seems to make no sense what so ever. It would be interesting to find more information on the story.
Thanks.
Summers, try reading the links embedded at the sites I listed. You can put two and two together and realize the point of MI5 operatives impersonating Arab terrorists, loading car(s) with explosives, and shooting up bystanders, was intended to create chaos and sectarian violence in a traditionally Shi’ite city.
It worked.
The CIA undertook similar assignments in Baghdad and other cities with mixed or Sunni majority populations.
The original news reports on these incidents are no longer available that I could find. But if you are naive enough to believe that what the coalition did in Iraq was not intended, you are in sore need of deepening your awareness so that you may perceive reality more easily.
Your willingness to credit the MSM with reporting truth is touching, but you appear to be far older than 12 and should have awakened from your pretty slumber by now. Remember what they say: Time waits for no man.
Seer
“…….But if you are naive enough to believe that what the coalition did in Iraq was not intended, you are in sore need of deepening your awareness so that you may perceive reality more easily……”
Sorry if I want to see more than “put two and two together” and speculation about US military strategy. Bush announced “Mission Accomplished” in 2003 and held elections in Iraq in early 2005 to showcase to the world. How would inflaming sectarian tensions serve the US in Iraq? The idea of the “surge” in 2007 was just the opposite – to reduce sectarian tensions and violence.
Thanks.
I see that reading between the lines, a necessity to understanding the complexities of today’s global affairs, is not your forte. I recall back at the Graun, you challenged the report from Jane’s Defense Weekly that reported there were more al Qaeda rebels in Syria than Free Syrian Army and other moderate anti-Assad fighters. You simply insisted that report was untrue.
It appears you won’t accept facts that conflict with your overly idealistic and dangerously unrealistic view of the tactics the US and its Western allies are willing to pursue under cover of the darkness provided by the complicit well-paid (er… bribed) media.
Seer
“…….I recall back at the Graun, you challenged the report from Jane’s Defense Weekly that reported there were more al Qaeda rebels in Syria than Free Syrian Army and other moderate anti-Assad fighters. You simply insisted that report was untrue……”
The one thing I have never posted is that I am right about everything, but that is besides the point (Gondwanaland?).
“……..It appears you won’t accept facts that conflict with your overly idealistic and dangerously unrealistic view of the tactics the US and its Western allies are willing to pursue under cover of the darkness provided by the complicit well-paid (er… bribed) media……”
You are using “facts” where there is only speculation. Besides speculative, it’s conspiratorial which within the context of the invasion of Iraq make little sense. I fully understand that the US is capable of tactics like divide and rule – or lying like at the second Gulf of Tonkin incident, but the sectarian divide was well established before the US invaded. You’ll remember that Saddam invaded Iran because he feared the Mullahs would spread the Iranian revolution to Iraq and its Shia majority. The invasion of Iran cost the lives of one million people. Saddam killed tens of thousands of Shia putting down the rebellion after the first Gulf war and other incidents. The Shia and Kurds were treated as second class citizens during the reign of Saddam. Shiapedia has a whole section on how badly the Shia were treated under Saddam Hussein.
For the US, the strategy was unite after ridding the world of Saddam. The surge strategy was proof of that. However, I’ll track articles that suggest the same things because I know I can be wrong.
Another brilliant piece by Glen Ford. Remember when he was on Democracy Now exposing Michael Eric Dyson’s Obama-worship syndrome?
He forgot about the part where there is a large industrial building in a nondescript American city full of evil-scientists, with evil laughs, who are hell-bent on creating designer epidemics that will holocaust Middle East Islamic people wholesale. For the oil of course.
Oh no, wait: America needs them as capitalist slaves.
…The CIA are the middlemen dealing in American business franchise distribution. Every manager of Starbucks and McDonald’s (etc.), worldwide, are trained CIA operatives meant to eviscerate and corrupt all ancient cultures and morals as part of the larger maniacal plot to enslave the world though debt – preferably on Visa or American Express. (The CIA does not accept the Discover card.)
And remember, it was the CIA who originally invented the Internet as a project to enslave the world. Berners-Lee being a known CIA operative. [That last bit said in that irritating Noam Chomsky matter-of-fact slow and low tone of absolute factual authority.]
What America has wrought is a magnificent Middle East phoenix – all Islamic people are joined together like one big huge Rugby scrum – but they are flying free over the whole world – and they are larger than life itself – and the feeling for each will be better than poking a virgin houris all day until you pass out.
“snip”
I swear to Allah I hit [reply] to: seer 05 Jul 2014 at 10:22 am
Unlike Greenback$, the writers at BAR actually have principles.
The Tasmanian Echidna’s Four-Headed Penis
http://tvblogs.nationalgeographic.com/2012/07/03/the-tasmanian-echidnas-four-headed-penis/
While this link may be a few years old, the info contained should shed some light on the current status of the NSA. As shown, even high government officials did not know to what extent the DOJ revolt in Ashcrofts hospital room affected Bush’s surveillance program at the time. Other that Bush’s relinquishing some aspects, there were parts of the program that were secret from most DOJ officials. What is not disputed..is the program continued to this day. The revolt did little. Interesting no less.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/cheney/themes/rebellion.html
‘Got Survelliance?’ you do if you read Boing Boing (Cory Doctoro)
http://www.juancole.com/2014/07/considers-target-surveillance.html
“Since the start of the Snowden story in 2013, the NSA has stressed that while it may intercept nearly every Internet user’s communications, it only “targets” a small fraction of those, whose traffic patterns reveal some basis for suspicion. Targets of NSA surveillance don’t have their data flushed from the NSA’s databases on a rolling 48-hour or 30-day basis, but are instead “
Thank you Ben.
Update 2 in that article is especially clear. “Appelbaum and others have posted an excellent English language article expanding on this in Der Erste.”
http://daserste.ndr.de/panorama/aktuell/nsa230_page-1.html
Indeedy. Months back I was hearing the buzz that TOR was actually an NSA op. I hope GG doesn’t delay much longer. Shortly, we may find ourselves with just fishwrap for news and info.
Months back I read that Tor users were immediately regarded as suspect by the spooks. I’ve considered using it – gone to the site and read the documentation, but declined to download it because there’s no point to inviting even deeper surveillance.
Maybe I will later down the road apiece.
The German government has summoned the US ambassador to discuss the alleged spying on the parliamentary committee that was investigating claims of US spying. I found the following transcript on my computer, which may have been placed there inadvertently.
Deputy Foreign Minister: Mr. Ambassador, do you have a compulsive spying problem?
Ambassador: No, Mr. Minister.
DFM: Then can you remove the wire you are wearing?
A: Sure, but it’s just standard protocol.
DFM: Thank you. Can you also remove your Google Glass eyewear?
A: OK
DFM:Thank you. We’ve also asked the black van parked across the road to move on. If you would just turn off your iPhone, we can begin.
A: Wow – I’m not being recorded, I feel like a little kid again! I can say how much I dislike Germans and how I can’t wait to get assigned to some other country. This is fantastic!
DFM: Click. Thank you. That’s all we wanted to get on record. Have a nice day.
I see how a transcript got onto your computer. His iPhone records conversations even when turned off. Didn’t the Germans read that document? Take out the battery, always.
Lucky for you though, MC. ;)
One of the many reasons that you can’t remove an iPhone battery.
(well, probably not, but it certainly is convenient for one of the most popular phones to have that flaw)
Ha, ha! I didn’t know that. As you can tell – I don’t own an iPhone. I actually refused one when Steve Jobs was giving them out free in these parts. I did accept the iPods though, and gladly.
Fascinating.
Our own Jihad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VKwGVNsMKY
Excellent post.
Thanks.
Mark A. Colbrock, specialist for drones, is the new chief of United State of Bavaria ;-)
http://www.oberpfalznetz.de/zeitung/4225550-127-steile_karriere_bei_der_us_armee,1,0.html
coram, I found this regarding contraception. Some good news regarding its availability.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HEALTH_OVERHAUL_FREE_BIRTH_CONTROL?SITE=PASTR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
“Preventive care” is baloney:
scientificamerican.com/article/flu-shots-may-not-protect-the-elderly-or-the-very-young/
google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=yaz+stroke
Damn, you’re special.
Preventive, yes. The cost of most contraceptives may seem inexpensive, but this is in context of health insurance the employee may very well had paid premiums and expect that a contract is a contract. Worse, an unplanned pregnancy can present large and unplanned expenses to both employee and employer. As for abortion, the Court may have made that far less accessible thanks to its recent McCullen v. Coakley decision.
BTW, on the male side of things, did Hobby Lobby or Conestoga Wood cover vasectomies and such? Just askin’.
ya’ll breaking out ur lil british flags n celebrating ur 2nd out of the closet re-dependence day?
mysterious computer trouble w this site past weeks ,; took 34minutes 2 post this. wont let me type
Took part in our local 4th of July parade this afternoon! I was with a large group of friends, with our theme for the parade being about promoting Move to Amend. Now, I realize that some don’t fall into the category of those who are convinced that attempting to amend the constitution is the best route for overturning or taking the strength and damage out of Citizens United. But, no matter, promoting the amendment is still a great way to communicate to people the importance of getting money out of politics. That is borne out by the fact that the amendment is popular and picking up steam and a following all over the US.
Our contingent consisted of an appropriately decorated flat-bed truck, which had speakers on either side pumping out a recording in a loop of a song that one from the group had written – on-subject – lyrics to the tune of, “This Land is Your Land.” He sang the lyrics while backing himself on guitar.
We all followed down the parade route, each of us with our signs in sequential order from 1 thru 28 – interspersed with a number of other people holding small signs about related issues. But rather than walking in a straight line down the middle of the parade route we all snaked back and forth along the route from one side of the street to the other. That way the crowd lining both sides of the route could easily view each sign, which made for a more interactive intimacy between us and them. Lots of cheering and whooping for us! We were well received, to say the least!
You never know how many participants will show up for such an event like that. And when you have 28 signs that need a person to hold each and every one of them, and a whole bunch of other signs that need someone to be there to make us of them, it’s delightful when it works out that plenty of people show up to make it all come together.
I’ve never been one too quick to say, “I love a parade,” but when actually participating in a parade, it can be pretty darned fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVus6eJA1yI
Left out an important bit of information. Each one of the larger signs we were carrying had one thru 27 (one on each sign) of the wording of each of the 27 amendments Then the last sign had the wording for the proposed 28th amendment.
Rock on.
iirc Lessig makes a point that amendment activism can act as a powerful form of brinksmanship, if and when it builds steam the threat of amendment is almost as affecting as amendment itself.
Curious, what do you guys think of universal basic income (or negative income tax) as another possible antidote? ie, if money is speech, and speech is free, emancipate the supply
This is definitely part of the solution:
https://movetoamend.org/wethepeopleamendment
This one additional amendment to the exisiting Constitution of the United States will nullify the 2010 SCOTUS decision in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commision pulling corporate voice out of the elections process. That is good.
I do not however; support an Article V Convention, where there exists the potential to re-write the entire Constitution.
The link you posted is what the group I was affiliated with at the parade is behind and working towards. That’s why we had signs with wording from each of the previously passed amendments, to make the point that passing an amendment is not outer space talk. In my original post I included that link and another link, but since that post didn’t upload here, I left out the links in my second attempt at posting about the parade. I don’t know what the people in the group, for the most part, think about Article V Convention.
You can ride on your bourgeois float in your bourgeois pro-Amerikkka parade all you want, but the bottom line is that the Constitution was written for capitalism and private property. So “amending” the sucker is worthless. It needs to be scrapped completely and written for a communist project, not a capitalist one.
You seem clueless that your bourgeois attitudes come through no matter what “bandwagon” you jump on. Amending the constitution is no less pro-capitalist than the Supremes ruling for Citizens United in the first place.
You keep on keeping on though, Banjo. The ruling class loves you!
I wasn’t on a float. And that was the least of your dishonesty about me in that comment. Dishonesty is your MO, always. Unlike one of your lies about me, I know that you’re not “clueless” about what an obvious liar you are. You just know no other way to be.
Right behind the people I walked with was another “pro-Amerikkka” demonstration about “Label GMO’s.” Lot’s of stuff about Monsanto in that one, and it was also full of more friends and acquaintances of mine, and assorted other people, who, for some reason, make PSBI feel special about her/himself because he or she is changing the world one “pro-Amerikkka” rant at a time on a comment board.
Edward Snowden recently mentioned that he does not want to give himself a parade if he returns to the United States. I want to give him a ticker tape parade in every city in the union!
This Fourth of July I am celebrating the mothers and fathers of our country – Laura Poitras, Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden, Glenn Greenwald – and, Julian Assange, a citizen of another country who has become a martyr to the cause of bringing liberty and freedom to Americans – these are founders of a new and better United States which I believe will arise because of their sacrifices.
Last year I started a new family tradition in my home and told everyone about it that would listen. Thanksgiving’s now a 2-day celebration here and the second is called “SnowMann Day,” though the list of honorees grows.
We have Latin-American food and I bake “USA upside-down cake.”
Abut an hour or two ago I posted a story about our local 4th of July Day parade that I participated in with many friends. So far, as you can see, the post is so far a no-show here on the discouragingly intermittent Intercept comment board. If the post doesn’t show up in due time I’ll – maybe – take another shot at rewriting it. Participating in the parade was fun and exhilarating.
Similarly, in a discussion I was having with CraigSummers last night, one comment, maybe two, never appeared. It’s extremely difficult to conduct a conversation with disappearing comments.
I’m beginning to think this site is a hoax. A holding tanks of sorts, where spooks get the personal info on every visitor. I hope I’m wrong. Please, somebody tell me I’m wrong.
Einstein, try switching to a different installed browser to find comments you just made if you don’t see it on refresh, and empty the caches of all of them. You’ll find your problem most often solved.
Glad I could help.
Not to mention the problematic structure of the comment board itself.
Yeah, that too.
Only beginning to have questions, huh?
Says one who loves spending hour after hour participating in hoaxes.
“debbie” is Terrence Moonseed, sans the personality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-xSP_T0VqU#t=106
No Terrence is cool debbie is not. Who says Terry is wrong?
https://thejuicemedia.com/
The World game and Brazil
That’s what “sans the personality” means.
Terrence is wrong on some of his jive, right on some. That’s my personal opinion; the only one that I can have. I don’t know or care “who says Terry is wrong.” “debbie,” on the other hand, is just basically insane.
Kitt, I want to thank you for that link to “Rap News”.
http://www.infowars.com/indiana-cop-assaults-wheelchair-bound-man-keeps-job-faces-no-charges/
He may not have come from the grassy knoll but we seem to have a second NSA leaker. (link should go here).
The original Snowden files are said (link should go here) to be published with the assistance of Crytome.
The Intercept has been silenced.
So much for Heartbleed and all the other stories not run here.
So Glenn has been hit by a Gag order and he has remained silent on things.
The 18th of this month should see documents a plenty.
So much for the evolution of the Intercept.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDaOgu2CQtI
Bruce Schnieier mentions a possible second NSA leaker:
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/07/nsa_targets_pri.html
If you saw that link on Infowars it’s only fair, and constructive, that domain sometimes be included in the post. It is supporting media that originally clued in the reader, which allows the site to reach others.
Otherwise informative sites don’t grow as much as they could have.
Very important to spread the right wing propaganda of the Screaming-Head known as Alex Jones here. Because there is just so little of that kind of coverage elsewhere. He gives run-of-the-mill fascists and bigots a bad name by being such an overwhelming douche bag… a really sad and under-appreciated little man. He makes Breitbart (rest in pieces) look like a reasonable human being… which is damn tough to pull off. He makes Glenn Beck seem like a scholar by comparison. He makes Ted Nugent sound like a compassionate school teacher who is occasionally misunderstood. More of him please.
When did that news break? Yesterday. And all us saw it here posted by coram who credited Pedinksa with the heads up, long before it was posted on infowars. As I’ve mentioned to you, infowars is a news aggregator, not an original source.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/06/18/nsa-surveillance-secret-cable-partners-revealed-rampart-a/#comment-52039
seer, that ended up as an inconspicuous update later in the day at the bottom of Schneier’s post just above comments to his blog. And the coram post made no mention of it.
You really have a small, hipster mindset about Infowars, and you’re kidding yourself if you think others don’t know that it often (but not entirely) aggregates from other current events sources. You’re not impressing anyone with such comments.
The fact is that it’s widely read enough here that many of these coincident comments are obviously timed mere hours after the appearance on the Jones site by posters here who know of and occasionally comment on, its existence.
Yes, infowars is very important. Where would we be without it? Better informed, and less propagandized I’m thinking. But hey, (not butt hay… ewww!)
Where can I get one of those hipster mindsets you speak of? Not a small hipster mind set like you suggest either. I want the big hipster mindset with a side shift and the wankle-grip…. full on deluxe for me and nothing less… cuzz freedom!
You really don’t get the concept that sites like Infowars are effective, trusted nexuses that refocus from disparate sources (including its own growing internal capability) on genuine news that readers who are disillusioned with MM can gravitate to.
But it grows–necessarily if your purported interests here are true–only if readers known to use it share that they do. And you’re not impressing anybody or doing anybody favors by badmouthing it to appear artificially above the fray.
I took part in our local 4th of July parade today with an activist group of people who have been educating the public about amending the constitution with a 28th amendment:
:
Move to Amend
I realize that, for example, Glenn and also Lawrence Lessing are not necessarily 100% in agreement that the amendment would be the best or most doable way to effect the negative particulars of Citizens United but, regardless, working towards that amendment brings attention to the problem of money in politics, and that is something that we absolutely must do something big about.; which Glenn and Lessig both agree on.
Anyway…our parade demonstration included 28 people holding signs. Each individual sign had the wording of one the 27 previously passed amendments to the Constitution, and then one had the wording of the proposed 28th. We held up our approximately 3′ by 4′ signs on sticks that reached well over our heads, and so they were really visible and readable to the parade crowd on each side of the street. We also had a number of other people interlaced between our numerical sequence signs holding other smaller signs about various issues; including the recent Hobby Lobby issue.
Our group was headed up by an appropriately decorated truck with speakers blaring out a ‘Corporations Are Not People’ lyric that was written by one of our participants, who also sang the lyric, backed by his guitar playing. (It sounded great but needs my harmonica dubbed into it for the next time). He borrowed the tune from Woody Guthrie’s, “This Land is Your Land.”
Our procession was well received by the crowd, and we were out there for quite some while, especially since we, rather than head straight down the street, snaked back and forth from one side of the street to the other. That allowed everyone to see and read each sign easily.
‘Twas a very festive Fourth! So glad that I took part in a parade!
Move to Amend’s Proposed 28th Amendment to the Constitution
That slide, above, about Germany being a Third Party partner in SIGINT? NSA wasn’t kidding. This, just up at Guardian.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/04/germany-arrest-bnd-spying-allegations-double-agent-us
*Germany summons US ambassador over spy allegations*
“Germany summoned the U.S. ambassador on Friday after the arrest of a man who had reportedly spied for the United States, fueling tensions that had already intensified over alleged U.S. eavesdropping.”
http://thehill.com/policy/international/211370-germany-summons-us-ambassador-over-spy-allegations
U.S. Ambassador John Emerson may be forced to pay any illegal parking tickets until the matter is fully resolved. The USG is now on maximum alert.
The Theater of the Absurd, indeed.
This is the equivalent of Luis Suarez biting one of the FIFA officials investigating his biting incident. The US government needs to see a shrink asap.
Happy 4th of July to the staff of the Intercept. Wherever you are, if you actually do exist.
Tony Benn – 10 min History Lesson for Neoliberals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX-P4mx1FLU&feature=kp
Antiwar superheroes unite! Presenting: Medea Benjamin.
http://my.firedoglake.com/jbade/2014/07/03/video-code-pinks-medea-bejamin-anti-war-superhero/
What are Persephone’s and Medusa’s and Pandora’s plans?
Yes! That bit wear she grabs the door frame with here splayed feet and arms while she continues her list of questions and statements as the bloated buffoon cop carries out the 102 lb woman just cracks me up and makes me feel like cheering every time I’ve watched and re-watched.
“Why are you [Mr. Brennan] lying to the American people and not saying how many innocents have been killed?”–Medea Benjamin
That Nigerian man, Mubarak Bala, who chose to be an atheist and whose family had him committed to a mental hospital, has been freed.
It’s very good to know someone in the world has freshly minted cause to celebrate his freedom today.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-28158813
Mondoweiss looks at Rand Paul’s very un-libertarian attempts to pander to Israel (his latest being a surprisingly offensive op-ed), and the mixed signals he’s giving off trying to position himself.
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/senator-pander-israel.html
You’re real piece of work. This is hardly pandering (from the same article):
“But Paul has to know his bill has no chance of being passed. Instead, it’s an attempt to assuage concerns over previous statements on Israel, including a budget plan that would have cut off U.S. aid to Israel and to all other countries. Paul crossed a sacred red-line in Washington with that 2011 proposal. His other non-interventionist positions on drones and U.S. war in Iran and Syria have only fueled doubts in the hawkish, neoconservative wing of the Republican Party that Paul is not a man to trust–especially in the White House.”
You’ve got a really strange, blockheaded, stubborn, weirdly-subjective opinion about the Pauls, singing Ron into the heavens while continually deriding the same congressman who is consistent on eliminating PATRIOT, NDAA, SOPA and derivatives.
You evidently don’t think he’s giving off mixed signals. I do. I’m impressed by much of what he says, but this aspect seems particularly unfortunate to me.
You’re being disingenuous. And you’ve been driving this specious argument for years.
You can’t read, can you? What Cindy said is, “Rand Paul’s very un-libertarian attempts to pander to Israel (his latest being a surprisingly offensive op-ed)”
She said nothing of a disapproving nature in regard to the LIBERTARIAN positions he’s taken.
Here, read his own words:
He’s saying that since Israel has not yet committed total genocide of the Palestinians, it shows they are remarkably restrained. Of course, they savage the people whose land they are stealing by inflicting collective punishment on innocent Palestinians for a crime committed by one or a very few. Collective punishment is immoral, inhuman, and illegal, and illegal even according to Israeli law.
What a dick Paul the Small has developed into. Must be them golden dollar signs dancin’ in his head.
http://israellawresourcecenter.org/internationallaw/studyguides/sgil1d.htm
seer, your first and second sentences are at diametric odds.
You’re functionally illiterate.
As he knows that the Zionists own the media which makes or breaks candidates,he is doing a little fence mending.Unfortunate,but it is a political reality,that the Israelis own US,and will do anything to prevent an American nationalist from regaining the POTUS after 60 years or so,though I guess Nixon wasn’t on their payroll,with their hatred of him.
quote”You’re real piece of work.”unquote
Says the bleating fool while smeared richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying his alleged birth into this world. An insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody, abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired him and then killed themselves in recognition of what they had done. Indeed..work of art.
Spy vs spy update (from BBC News).
A German spy was arrested in Germany for spying for the US on the German committee investigating US spying on Germany.
More from the Guardian, further on in the thread.
Happy 4th of July y’all !
Glenn Greenwald and the Intercept are very quickly loosing the confidence of readers. In part because there is nothing to read, and, in other parts, because they are quickly becoming as unreliable as Clapper.
Well, lookee here. Hillary tells the Guardian that Snowden should have the right to a defense in the US. She doesn’t get too specific on what happens to him in pretrial lockup, or what happens when the defense tries to proffer evidence during discovery. It’s up to the court to decide what’s admissible and what’s not, and that’s even before we get to the justification defenses (see US v. Schoon, 939 F. 2d 826 (9th Cir., 1991).
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/04/edward-snowden-legal-defence-hillary-clinton-interview
Mr. Snowden is wise to continue to seek amnesty in Russia.
_”NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden wants out of Russia“_
“But is denied asylum from 20 countries”
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2352072/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-wants-out-of-russia
_”NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden wants out of Russia“_
“But is denied asylum from 20 countries…”
“because of threats from the United States government.”
you really are a fucking asshole.
Well, that’s generous of Hillary. Giving Snowden the right to a defense and all. *she must be running for office or something.
ps. personally, I think much/most of the last two Presidential Administrations should also have the right to a defense, along w/ Snowden, … and let justice sort it out.
quote”ps. personally, I think much/most of the last two Presidential Administrations should also have the right to a defense, along w/ Snowden, … and let justice sort it out.”unquote
priceless.
“Hillary tells the Guardian that Snowden should have the right to a defense”
Mind-boggling that such an educated person can actually get on the airwaves and propound these ideas that sound noble but are, in the end, self-serving and make themselves appear the fool for even uttering them. Even more tragic is that most will believe that she’s actually offering credible alternatives to an expatriated American citizen – one who’s shown more rationality and integrity than most of our elected representatives combined.
““The world isn’t fair, Calvin.”
“I know Dad, but why isn’t it ever unfair in my favor?”
– Bill Watterson, The Essential Calvin and Hobbes: A Calvin and Hobbes Treasury
She used to be an attorney, I’m told.
Apropos of that, coram nobis recommends, as a parable of the American legal profession, the 1966 Billy Wilder film, “The Fortune Cookie,” with Walter Matthau in an Oscar-awarded role as Whiplash Willie, the crooked torts lawyer. Four stars.
Wasn’t Hillary bemoaning the fact, just a day or two ago, that she and Bill are not yet rich enough to not pay taxes? I feel quite sorry for her.
It *is* big of her to grant Snowden actual *access and use* of his innate, protected, and guaranteed right. I doubt he’ll vote for her though. Doubt you will, also.
Hillary Clinton is a corporatist militarist with an ‘entitled to the presidency’ attitude, appealing to no one who actually thinks. I believe the establishment rigs the vote results as needed (electoral college being the determining factor and not the popular vote, of course), so whether or not people vote for her is possibly a moot point – though of course the elite have to make it look good/believable. I don’t know any Democrat who’d vote for her “unless there’s no other choice,” a horrible qualification I think the establishment is taking to heart just as they did by providing/allowing only morons to challenge Barack Obama.
quote “It *is* big of her to grant Snowden actual *access and use* of his innate, protected, and guaranteed right.”unquote
Yeah, well when the SHTF, she’ll be in the sights of every 4th Gen warrior in Murka. Fuck this cunt. Vs all the bullshit nationalistic crap being spouted from every platform in WDC tonight, real patriots are speaking the truth..
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2014/07/there-is-storm-coming-my-short-speech.html
Storm indeed. Ya don’t need a weatherman to see which way the wind is blowing.
But of course she’d make a better president than Rand.
As I said, I believe the voting results are RIGGED. Vote for whoever the hell you want. It makes no difference.
Please do one good deed today to help free the People of the United States of America from tyranny.
Start here: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/04/aclu-end-swat-team-terror-in-the-us/
Direct link to petition site in the article.
Let freedom ring.
Thanks for the link Lyra1 – yet another troubling encroachment on ordinary citizens that needs the push-back that petitions can provide.
Enjoy your holidays, everyone, and stay safe.
Except for the fact that for minorities, native peoples, blacks, and others, that encroachment of violence and brutality overwhelmed them beginning in the late 15th Century, spreading like a virulent cancer throughout the continent.
You wouldn’t want to have been Crow anywhere near the Sioux, or on the losing end of an internecine gambit in the proximity of the Ivory Coast.
If blacks aren’t minorities, what are they?
“Picture us coolin’ on the 4th of July! And if you heard we were celebrating, that’s a woldwide lie!”
–Public Enemy
Happy Independence Day to all.
Im a yankee doodle dandy … a real live portrait of my uncle Sam born on th 4th of July. (full quote)
My father thanks you, my mother thanks you, my sister thanks you and I thank you
*Yankee Doodle Dandy
In contrast to what globalists would have you believe, just these reminders:
You don’t live in a homeland, and your country isn’t North America.
Individual liberties and free markets–which made this country the envy of the world–are under sustained attack by racism- and equality-chanting progressive collectivists who want Big Government to create an authoritarian, centrally planned economy.
People for equality support “racism” and progressives fighting far more to end Big Brother than CONServatives somehow want authoritarian Big Government…
Uh huh, piss on your own leg and claim it’s raining.
Also, you’re not half the realist you claim or you’d know “free markets” have never existed and were always ‘fixed’ for the benefit of the largest investors. Look no further than the petroleum vs. renewable/agrarian/hemp (and a century-old lie) economic model that’s currently killing OUR planet for the few’s profits, and tying a world to a company store.
OUR country’s free market has always been a myth.
You support Big Brother directly by promoting Big Government; they are one and the same.
By contrast, conservatism–paleo-, libertarian–is the antithesis of an authoritarianism that progressive leftists worship.
Progressive leftists are all about totalitarian control, define control, demand control: gun restrictions, income equality, coverage impositions and participation mandates on individuals, asset redistribution, climate taxes, compulsory public unions.
When the public is soured on their leaders, just frantically try to rewite history and say well-publicized Sozialisten attracted conservatives, down is up, left is right, now as then.
WHAaaa…? Where’d your “free markets” go?
Must’ve filled your shoes with piss on that one…
Free markets mean I don’t need to buy contraception or goofballs for somebody under threat of Big Government penalty. They mean I can fire you at will. They mean I don’t need to buy public-employee union representation as part of compulsory Big Government.
They mean that progressive leftists on Wall Street like Paul Warburg weren’t shipping 10 million dollars on a Sealed Train from Zurich to St. Petersburg along with V. I. Lenin to fund a socialist revolution–instead of doing just that–and aren’t now likewise engaged in that same kind of cronyism–where Wall Street went 2-1 for Obama over McCain.
And there it is; ALL progressives are communist revolutionaries because free markets mean these 3 things and nothing else…
Get those bladder problems checked, or is it prostate…?
Was the founding an ultimate lesson in having your cake and eating it, too? Did those first American oligarchs possibly write eloquent words of a man’s inalienable rights just to appear on a higher road, while really starting a revolution because England was already criminalizing slavery – and fortunes had to be protected? Those words of representative democracy still ring hollow today when much of the country’s still racist enough to try suppressing the vote of someone without pinkish-beige skin. Now, that slightly evolved white-man’s War Party oligarchy seeks permanent economic dominance of the entire world, having proven since WWII they’ll use criminal military force and orwellian surveillance tactics without conscience.
OUR country’s Independence Day might find truer meaning by ending Big Brother’s funding – forever.
“…….Did those first American oligarchs possibly write eloquent words of a man’s inalienable rights just to appear on a higher road, while really starting a revolution because England was already criminalizing slavery – and fortunes had to be protected?….”
Yep. That’s what the 56 people who signed the Declaration of Independence were all thinking. I would call your insight very similar to Michel Chossudovsky’s at GlobalResearch.EA
“…..What the NIC report fails to mention______….”
and you fill in the blank. So you filled in the blank with: the Boston Tea Party was a sham. It was really the Boston nigger party.
Thanks for the insight.
My, my, didn’t you eagerly use that word quite inappropriately…?
That your initial argument proposes an absolute all-or-nothing interpretation concerning the motives of each and every white man that signed the Declaration, is followed by a seemingly insane assertion taxed-tea thrown in the drink somehow held greater value to those same wealthier colonials than their slaves and the slave-trade keeping money in their northern banks – forces me to conclude you also like having your cake and eating it, too. Good luck with that.
The Boston Tea Party was merely a symbolic gesture, it’s the current tea party that’s “a sham.”
Slavery was an important part of the pre and post revolutionary American economy. No one can deny that. However, directly following the revolution, the northern states ABOLISHED slavery. Britain didn’t abolish slavery until 1833. So independence really didn’t have anything to do with ensuring the survival of the slavery in America although the fledgling government left the decision up to the individual states. The economy of the south was far more dependent on slavery.
The American revolution was driven by the rejection of British authority (you know – taxation without representation?) and – in reality – had very little to do with slavery. But you can make up what ever story you want.
“……..it’s the current tea party that’s “a sham.”…..”
I’m not sure how you got from the Boston Tea Party to the current Tea Party, but whether you disagree or agree with the Tea Party, it’s been a very influential movement in US politics.
Thanks
I’m sorry, I can’t understand you. You have bigotry on your face.
Nothing you ever again write could possibly matter more than that.
The “current Tea Party” is a myth. They are just hardcore right-wing Republicans, nothing more or less.
Your re-naming of the Boston Tea Party was, to put it very mildly, uncool.
When Israel is out of your picture,you can say some truths.How about that.
Gator90
I didn’t rename anything, but thanks for the credit. However, I think you make a reasonable point since the movement was founded less on taxing than spending by the government.
@ NFTAKFA:
“OUR country’s Independence Day might find truer meaning by ending Big Brother’s funding – forever.”
That would be the ultimate victory and should be the prime objective of anyone who is unhappy with the concept and reality of being a slave to the few for the profit of few.
Any discussion centered solely around politicians and political parties is mute when one considers that the Central Bankers own everyone.
Thanks for posting NFTAKFA.
‘Mom, Apple-Pie, & Guantanamo..’
“I know the ambassador, but I don’t know if I agree with that. We do have friends and we do have alliances. We need to balance that against our security needs and that’s why the president has restrained collection against heads of state of our friends and allies. I’m not going to go into the details of this, as you may expect. But with respect to what German citizens think, the United States has a pretty good track record of standing up for values of global democracy, of free expression, of protecting the rights of individuals, of trying to ensure that people are not discriminated against, of not suppressing free speech. Every country has a history of going over the line, and ours is no exception. But our democracy is self-correcting.”
John Podesta
ht`coram
It’s so slow trying to post when accompanied by GCHQ, and very annoying.
Everyone: Be Sure to see The Internet’s Own Boy
http://www.takepart.com/internets-own-boy
This is one giant reason why I’m imploring you all to see “The Internet’s Own Boy.” Aaron Swartz, almost single-handedly, managed to motivate people to move beyond their usual complacency in order to defeat a bill that was on its way to breezing through congress. But we are up against it all over again, because these disgusting liars and thieves (Dianne Feinstein being one of the very worst) never stop stealing or trying to steal again and again, more and more and more.
Meet CISA, the internet’s new enemy in Washiington
A new cybersecurity bill proposed in the U.S. Senate could dramatically impact how the U.S. government and corporations exchange Internet users’ confidential information. But thanks to vague language and a range of privacy and Internet freedom issues, the legislation is already shaping up to be one of the most hotly contested bills the Internet—and Washington—has ever seen.
The Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act (CISA) was written to facilitate the flow of “cyber threat” information between private companies, such as Verizon or Google, and government agencies, such as the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). The bill is currently being considered by members of the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, including those who introduced it, Chairman Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Vice Chairman Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.).
If enacted, CISA would have a major impact on a variety of Internet related issues, including privacy, corporate liability, freedom of information, law enforcement and national security.––Dell Cameron The Daily Dot
thanks Kitt~watched The Internet’s Own Boy” last night with my 22 yr old daughter. We were both crying at the end. What a horrible government we have. I keep trying to be supportive of the little things Obama accomplishes but then see a film like this and feel like ripping all my hair out and mailing it to him. Its so frustrating that a genius soul like this could be bullied so bad. Who knows what he could/would have accomplished had he not died? I don’t want to think of it. I implore all the viewers on this site to see this film. It can only make you stronger, no matter what your views are. ps the editing was incredible!
We have all benefited from Aaron Schwartz’s genius and activist endeavors. I was very saddened during his persecution by the US government for trying to make the net free and felt a personal loss when he met with his demise on this planet.
He would have fought to fight CISA just as he fought CISPA and SOPA. We must carry on for him.
Thanks for posting and thanks for your activism.
This is the anniversary of Americans declaring their right to privacy and the institution of a government forbidden from issuing general search warrants. They rejected the principle of ‘if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear’, recognizing that everyone has something to hide, and that an entire people should not be forced as a consequence to live in fear.
In practice it turned out a little different, but it was a nice idea.
The right to privacy was decreed for a few rich white men. It worked pretty well for them. When that and other rights were extended to women, minorities, and the poor, it was too threatening to the power elite who run the government. They want to keep an eye on everybody to see if their power is being questioned.
zzzzz
Every generation has to fight the same battles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX-P4mx1FLU&feature=kp
It is easy to control governments and humanity on planet Earth when they are placed under the absolute economic tyranny of the Central Bankers.
Thanks for posting.
Thanks for support :-)
lokah samasthah sukhino bhavanthu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usJl7oiZPnc
Very nice…thank you for the share.
“The problem with humans is that with very few exceptions humans mistake ‘being opinionated and having nothing to learn’ with actual reflection, critical thinking and originality.”
H/T – Cindy.
ACLU Legislative Counsel issues statement to Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board.
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-human-rights/dear-privacy-board-its-us-95
Nice to know that the concepts of liberty and justice are still alive on Independence Day.
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.” Preamble-Constitution of the United States
Matt Bruenig on lord hobby lobby, aka the road to hobbydom
Wouldn’t it be funny if hobby lobby inadvertently led the socialist American apocalypse?
“Wouldn’t it be funny if hobby lobby inadvertently led the socialist American apocalypse?”
http://rt.com/usa/170356-faith-leaders-obama-lgbt-order/
The Hobby-Lobby decision only added insult to injury. I’m in the Libertarian camp on this one.
http://www.lp.org/news/press-releases/libertarians-respond-to-hobby-lobby-ruling
“We favor restoring and reviving a free market health care system.”
It’s about family.
“Family.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/07/hobby-lobby-is-already-creating-new-religious-demands-on-obama/373853/
I got mine Jack (and Jill, and the kids, and the dog, and the mortgage).
It’s clearly not enough:
_”Insurers face a push for new benefits“_
“Advocates seek more coverage for disabilities”
“Massachusetts legislators this year have filed a flurry of bills – more than 70 in all – that, if passed, would substantially expand the medical services insurers are required to cover for patients but also potentially raise healthcare costs.”
http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2009/07/27/mass_legislators_consider_bills_to_widen_insured_care/
The people need these services and treatments too, and the general mandate framework is in place under the rubrik of the catch-all “health care reform.”
Correction: “people” should be written “folks.”
If everyone itsn’t creeped out enough already…
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/07/the-military-doesnt-want-you-to-quit-facebook-and-twitter/373918/
The part about SnapTrends is especially creepy.
“sentiment analysis”
Decadent jackasses. They have no idea what the data really means- it’s irreversibly complex. But there is an enormous and growing semantic capacity to decide what they want it to mean. That’s the scary bit.
What’s insidious about Intelligence is that it has nothing to do with intelligence.
Sentiment analysis? So creepy I’d better read the article again!
BTW, BenjaminAP, “decadent Jackasses” has a great ring to it :-) . Reminds me of Matlock, which I still enjoy in reruns.
There hasn’t been much discussion here of that facebook study controversy.
I can’t get it out of my mind. I invite all to visit my blog (have not linked to it here before) where I have 2 posts with giving an overview of what’s going on.
the blog: http://observergal.blogspot.com
The social media sites, especially FB, are specifically designed to promote business (rife with advertising cookies and trackers) and assist governments to conduct mass surveillance (crawling with CIA and NSA ops) upon their citizens. People would be prudent to heed your advice.
“I think it is probably time for users to leave facebook. I know folks get hooked, but I really feel the only way to make a statement is to leave. ”
You are right. Dump FB.
Follow-up article: http://www.ibtimes.com/privacy-group-files-complaint-ftc-over-facebook-mood-experiment-1619126
Thanks much, Lyra1 – for your kind words and for the link on the complaint, which I will definitely checkout ASAP.
I left Facebook and twitter, three years ago.
But they play games on comment boards and sites all over the net.
This playing of “games” has a real Paperclip feel.
Thank you for sharing.
Good links embedded in your blog,
Cheers to a True Blue
“Cinnamon Girl”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAdtUDaBfRA&feature=kp
Thanks, Tom Brown –
Glad you found my blog helpful. And thanks for “Cinnamon Girl” – of course I LOVE that song!
Thanks for posting the link to your blog. It makes the site more interesting. I hope others follow your example.
Thanks, Rolling –
Hope you and others will visit often!
Hi Rolling –
First attempt seems to have disappeared. But thanks. I hope you and others will visit often.
Thank you both @feline16 and @Lyra1. Both links are appreciated. I’m not surprised at the suggestion the DoD may have assisted in the funding of FB’s experiment. Psy-ops within the government isn’t new, but it’s been proven to exact scientific results in taking the public’s temperature regarding hot topics and swaying public opinion.
I would say that it would be easy to manipulate and track peoples emotions with this FB experiment. Don’t advertisers attempt to do this all the time? It’s just as it’s easy peasy to do in MSM … Fox has made an entire new’s industry of it and they still seem to be at the top of the steaming pile. So has every channel in the line-up … all you gotta do is pick your poison and !boom! – your checked out. Some might call it innocent escapism … other’s in the industry call it “programming”.
I’m personally more interested in what they learned about neutralizing people’s emotions. There is an element of the reporting on this experiment that seems to be avoiding this little nugget of gold. At what point do people simply “tune out”? To me – this is a much more diabolical and dangerous tool. How to make people numb to those things that should enrage (or at least engage) them. These types of people are what truly nefarious and evil thinkers prey upon. Then it’s merely a matter of divide and conquer. Makes it so much easier to identify and isolate those whose conscience openly reject and resist the status quo – then deign to rise up against it.
The ability to find that sweet spot between compliance and disobedience … that’s where the true psy-ops dwells.
HI El B (so glad you found those links of value)-
You gave some very thoughtful comments. I would say though, that this facebook study is just a bit different from what might be considered ” normal” advertising. However, there certainly have been instances of subliminal messages in advertising. And although we don’t have a “smoking gun”, I wouldn’t at all be surprised at DoD involvement, knowing of their PsyOps involvement and this recent Minerva Initiative.
You raise a GREAT (emphasis) point about numbing the populace. I think that’s exactly what’s been happening. We’re given so many violent images in our entertainment, we’re getting numbed to that. We’re given distractions in the form of celebrity scandals and reality tv. To me, it so evokes the old Roman “Bread and Circuses.” Only the bread is increasingly expensive and for too many, harder to come by due to safety net cutbacks.
Dear NSA, Privacy is a Fundamental Right, Not Reasonable Suspicion –Electronic Frontier Foundation
Learning about Linux is not a crime—but don’t tell the NSA that. A story published in German on Tagesschau, and followed up by an article in English on DasErste.de today, has revealed that the NSA is scrutinizing people who visit websites such as the Tor Project’s home page and even Linux Journal. This is disturbing in a number of ways, but the bottom line is this: the procedures outlined in the articles show the NSA is adding “fingerprints”—like a scarlet letter for the information age—to activities that go hand in hand with First Amendment protected activities and freedom of expression across the globe.
What we know
The articles, based on an in-depth investigation, reveal XKeyscore source code that demonstrates how the system works. Xkeyscore is a tool which the NSA uses to sift through the vast amounts of data it obtains. This source code would be used somewhere in the NSA’s process of collecting and analyzing vast amounts of data to target certain activities. According to the Guardian, XKeyscore’s deep packet inspection software is run on collection sites all around the world, ingesting one or two billion records a day.–EFF
Big Government advocates on the progressive left may chafe at their expensive nanny, but the attributes of nannies is you don’t get to choose them.
Other than the fact that your sentence structure sucks… big government is simply sloganeering used by ignorant people that do not have any specific critiques… big populations by definition require big governments unless you are an anarchist, in which case I would respect you more than I do now…. get it : ) ?
Such as…”gun rights advocates?”
Groups join Electronic Frontier Foundation in NSA lawsuit
Aside from the implications for privacy, the groups involved in the lawsuit, many of them political advocacy organizations and gun rights advocates, are concerned about the First Amendment issues that it could bring up. At the teleconference, Buttar, along with two other plaintiffs from the First Unitarian Church of Los Angeles and the Calguns Foundations, expressed concern that their members (and the general public) will no longer feel free to associate with certain controversial organizations, if their association with the group can be easily discovered by the government.
“The issue for [Calgun] is that it’s already hard enough to be a gun owner….Californians aren’t fond of people who carry arms,” Gene Hoffman, Calguns foundation chairman said. “The idea that people that people want to be able to advocate for things that matter to them…is important. Knowing that big brother’s watching means that most people [who you] won’t think of as being gun owners, classic Democrats and those who don’t fit the mold,… are more likely to be afraid of the government keeping record.”
More importantly, the plaintiffs want the case out in the open, to ensure a fair process.
Your critical thinking problem is understanding that gun rights advocates–unlike the authoritarian progressive left–are almost uniformly aligned on the idea of wholesale reduction of size of gov’t. The former understanding clearly that Big Governments which leftists build and promote are self interested entities that defend Big remuneration, turf, policy initiatives, and budgets.
I don’t what the fuck you think you’re saying — and you sure as hell don’t — but the fact is, gun rights advocates are teamed up with Electronic Frontier Foundation in a law suit against NSA, regardless of your incessant drivel.
And that surprises you?
Continuing to make shit up.
What’s going on with this site? I went from can’t wait for the next Greenwald article on Salon to the unbelievable checking daily for the next one on the Guardian to… stop. We’re going through withdrawals Glenn, where are you?
More blowback after the Hobby Lobby decision. Supreme Court issued a decision today regarding an exclusion for contraception at Wheaton College, a nonprofit.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/04/us/politics/supreme-court-order-suspends-contraception-rule-for-christian-college.html
Unsigned decision, but the dissent by the 3 female justices says that the Court has broken a promise made in Hobby Lobby on Monday. From the document hyperlinked in the story:
That’s a linear effect. It’s only blowback for a thwarted, frustrated, totalitarian progressive left.
Um, in exactly what way is it “linear” when they say one day that it’s acceptable to use “religious belief” as an excuse since the government will cover for that necessary care, only to say the next day that “religious belief” allows Wheaton to refuse to sign the forms allowing that government covered care?
I certainly hope that this harms Wheaton, though I’m sure the effect will be minimal due to the desire for academic positions.
The reason I brought it up was (1) because this order, more in the nature of a writ than a ruling, came after the Court term, an extraordinary thing, (2) that it shows they’ll construe the ruling a lot wider and a lot sooner than many experts thought and (3) it’s going to lead to considerable mischief by the religious right.
See, e.g.,
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/07/hobby-lobby-is-already-creating-new-religious-demands-on-obama/373853/
Among other things, the ruling and this decision mean that the standard of “substantially burden” is going to have a very low threshold indeed.
haha, I’m sorry for facilitating poor responses to your post. That Atlantic article is especially troubling, and I’m shocked that it would happen so quickly. (not to say that the discrimination against women is any less terrible, but it’s shocking that this excuse for discrimination will immediately spread to every other pet hate of misled and draconian religious groups)
I expect that this will eventually lead to a subsequent “reasonable” backlash and then a just result, but it is always depressing to see that the discrimination will be allowed and even encouraged for a very very long time.
Salon.com is up in arms:
_”What Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia don’t understand about contraception“_
“An IUD is a month’s pay for a woman earning minimum wage.”
To which I would reply the woman would probably prefer to have the equivalent either in higher wages, or in the job it took away.
If that’s what you would reply you are again displaying your ignorance and/or your bad intentions.
It would be far better were you to reply that that form of contraception is covered by HHS in the event a woman’s employer is not required to provide insurance coverage for birth control. In fact, all FDA approved birth control methods are covered under HHS as yesterday’s SCOTUS ruling notes.
To which I would reply then they can try asking Health and Human Services for paying jobs, or IUDs.
You don’t get it do you? They can continue to work for Hobby Lobby or Conestoga or whomever else, and receive birth control coverage from HHS.
Your flippant attitude towards other people reveals exactly how anti-human-being you are. My understanding of true conservatism is that it appreciates and is concerned for the well-being of the individual – nothing like what you demonstrate. So, debbie, you’re not conservative either. You’re just an ordinary obnoxious malcontent.
Do you understand that HHS is still lifting money from Mom ‘n Pop to pay for these treats? Money that could be used to hire people who want to work, or to pay them more.
Conservatism is about conservation of resources, something about which you’re clearly not.
And don’t forget the insurance:
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=IUD+damage
What contraception should be covered by a health plan?
Whatever you want, if you assume the responsibility for it, and strictly among only like-minded consumers of the insurance product. I draw the line at you making me help you buy your phobic choice of health product abetted by the muzzle of state violence.
Tell it , Binney.
“A former NSA technical chief has told Germany’s parliament that the US agency has become a “totalitarian” mass collector of data. German public broadcasters say the NSA targets individuals who use encryption services.”
http://www.dw.de/nsa-totalitarian-ex-staffer-tells-german-parliament/a-17757008
“Tell it , Binney”
Agreed – need to get this fellow and his first hand account on the record and in the media as often and as widely as possible – perhaps the First Look/Intercept gang can help in this effort.
I wouldn’t hold your breath.
Marcy Wheeler in depth on PCLOB prevarications, false claims, reach arounds, silences, non-mentions and just all around transparent propaganda effort.
“At the beginning of the report, PCLOB repeated the government’s claim this is primarily about emails; here in the guts of it, it obliquely references other categories of collection, without really considering whether these categories present different privacy concerns.
“Remember, too, that the original, good version of USA Freedom Act remains before the Senate Judiciary Committee. That bill would disallow the use of upstream 702 for any use but counterterrorism and counterproliferation. Did PCLOB ignore this use of Section 702 just to avoid alerting Senators who haven’t been briefed on it that it exists?”–Marcy Wheeler
The problem with Americans is that with very few exceptions Americans mistake ‘being opinionated and having nothing to learn’ with actual reflection, critical thinking and originality.
That’s a characteristic of Mankind, and not a singular American fault.
“That’s a characteristic of Mankind, and not a singular American fault.
Agreed. No need to pigeon-hole nationalities, among other things. Divide & conquer isn’t what we need right now.
Perhaps, but a few other cultures genuinely promote courtesy, open-mindedness and politeness as well to offset the dangers of escalating belligerence.
“Perhaps, but a few other cultures genuinely promote courtesy, open-mindedness and politeness as well to offset the dangers of escalating belligerence.”
I’ll reiterate – that is a broad, over-generalization that does nothing to further or promote “courtesy, open-mindedness and politeness as well to offset the dangers of escalating belligerence.”
To use your own words.
““For the powerful, crimes are those that others commit.”
Noam Chomsky, Imperial Ambitions: Conversations on the Post-9/11 World
I believe that pointing out what I consider one of the peculiar flaws that make America uniquely violent for a western nation is indeed promoting something better, more courteous etc. You can think it is an over-generalization (that few Americans realize how their arguments are inappropriately belligerent and closed-minded), but it is an observation that seems true to me.
The entire culture, not just the politics, is transfixed by a counterproductive mentality instilled by the media, and has no semblance of ‘dignity’ beyond the shallowness of jingoism and the power of being more desired than others. Confidence is equated with bulldozing others, for example, and art is largely a matter of dominant commercialism. I find this cultural malaise a problem because it is widespread and unquestioned, but perhaps you don’t. I find that (what I think of as) typical American belligerence interferes with communication very often, personally.
“The entire culture, not just the politics, is transfixed by a counterproductive mentality instilled by the media, and has no semblance of ‘dignity’ beyond the shallowness of jingoism and the power of being more desired than others.
The entire culture. Again with the broad-brush approach of labeling an entire society for problems presented, not by the citizens themselves, but by what those in power allow to be regurgitated on main stream media.
That’s not a peculiar flaw of any nation anymore – if it ever was one.
It’s called propaganda.
What this perspective fails to recognize – which is utterly amazing given the discussions held here and the evidence all around – is that for the most part and across most of the planet, the corporations control the politicians and the information sources – hence the message that is being seen does not reflect the true cultures – arguably in many, if not most nations today.
This is why the “entire culture” and not just the politics seems so “uniquely violent” (forgetting the peculiar flaws of the pseudo-westernized countries around the world and Russia for the moment).
It is only because the information presented is biased towards an acknowledged, corporately owned government and political structure; one that believes that such a belligerent stance on the political stage serves it’s purposes – and damn the citizenry who they are supposed to represent – that this false idea that America is therefore a culture incapable of “actual reflection, critical thinking and originality” can hold any traction whatsoever.
What American citizens lack under such an information-controlling paradigm is the means – not the desire – to be in control of their own message.
I also find that this typical over-generalization interferes with communication very often, personally.
”“We become slaves the moment we hand the keys to the definition of reality entirely over to someone else, whether it is a business, an economic theory, a political party, the White House, Newsworld or CNN.”
– B.W. Powe, Towards A Canada Of Light
@Cindy – here is a video segment that may help explain, in part, what under-represented Americans are fighting for and why.
If you wish to find the media responsible for its influence, I congratulate you on this step, yet still it is true that other cultures import our media and do not become would-be belligerent enforcers of their own view as a result. The American populace is rather obviously not merely a plaything for its manipulators but too often a participant, a willing exhibitor of pro-active belligerence most apparent when (proven or even suggested to be) incorrect. If this were only a result of the media, other western countries importing our media would be the same way, but they are largely not – precisely because, as I said, their promotion of courtesy, open-mindedness and politeness offsets the escalation of problematic opinionatedness.
Note that I said the entire culture is transfixed by this default belligerence but some (very few) within the nation resist it. The politicians and the elite are at fault, certainly, but so is the populace for allowing the culture to become so shallow, defensive, belligerent, and oddly indifferent to the violence and corruption of its leaders except when it suits their party or ‘side.’
“If you wish to find the media responsible for its influence, I congratulate you on this step”
I suppose what is most puzzling to me is that the self-evident (again, we’ve been discussing this paradigm here on this site for months) yet patronizing tone has, just now, somehow become a talking-point for you.
” it is true that other cultures import our media and do not become would-be belligerent enforcers of their own view as a result”
With all respect, can you cite these “other cultures [who] genuinely promote courtesy, open-mindedness and politeness” despite the influence of corporate/moneyed media?
If so, in fairness, please note if these are nation-wide examples as you cite in the scale of America as far population, first, and wealth & political influence second. I think you’ll find some direct proportionality of aggression towards others (physical or political) in your examples.
My sense is that in large part, perceived cultural attributions aside, the reality is that those that do not project their belligerence isn’t because they do not “culturally” want to, but rather that geo-politically and/or financially they are unable to.
But again, you’ve made the claim of unilateral American belligerence carte-blanche, citizen-wide, so it is up to you to back that claim up.
I say that the video I posted is just one example among many that refutes this stance, but I do look forward to seeing more evidence suggesting otherwise.
In the end, I disagree with any blanket-statement that begins and concludes that any relatively modern country today, despite there being a very few outcasts within them, constitutes that “the entire culture is transfixed by this default belligerence,” simply because the evidence to back it up hasn’t been presented here.
That you may feel this way is understandable – but proclaiming that it is the default behavior ignores what a large segment of not only American, but many other societies and cultures around the world are struggling to free themselves from – an oligarchical-corportacracy that now transcends national and cultural boundaries – thus undermining the basic human rights of every one of us on the planet, no matter where we live.
““A patronizing disposition always has its meaner side”
– George Eliot
I guess now I think YOU are being patronizing. Does that make us equal?
“I guess now I think YOU are being patronizing. Does that make us equal?”
As has been the case in this entire discussion, what you think is up to you to explain, not me.
I will note, however, that I have rebutted your claims with specifics, and as yet you have not done so. Trying to make it personal on either of our parts would be side-stepping the issue, which is not my intent.
““When you engage with people, you build your own insight into what’s being discussed. Someone else’s understanding complements yours, and together you start to weave an informed interpretation. You tinker until you can move on.”
Marcia Conner, The New Social Learning: A Guide to Transforming Organizations Through Social Media
http://www.infowars.com/impeach-obama-protestor-charged-for-flying-infowars-gadsden-flag/
In Nassau Co., immediately to the east of NYC.
How sad, do you also point out every time someone elses 1 st amendment rights are constricted? For instance were you upset when Occupy protesters were beaten, and sprayed with chemical weapons? The right wing carries weapons to protests threatens the war monger-in-chief and nothing happens to them, the left gets arrested, beaten and charged with felonies for 1st amendment protected speech
The right wing carries weapons in the open to remind immigrants, newer generations, recent interstate arrivals, complacent others, in open carry regions that guns are historically commonplace, responsible, are not contraband, nothing to be hidden away.
You’ve mixed up your post with unsubstantiated other assertions.
Another words, as a cowardly threat…. mostly because they have small dicks, small minds, and they live in fear. Violence or the threat of violence is some people’s first choice always. As to unsubstantiated assertions, infowars of full of them and “it”, as are you.
Nobody’s threatening anybody, John. The left, on the other hand, has a horrific history of that.
As for fear, why are you so afraid of guns?
I’m not afraid, I am concerned that we have~10K deaths a year, thousands of injuries, and unstable paranoid dildos with semi automatic weapons brandishing them around and complaining about how their rights to carry a gun are being infringed on. Nothing is further from the truth.
A challenge I have made to other gun fetishists for several decades… perhaps you will be the one to step up for all the cowards who have failed to take up the challenge before….
For every case of someone defending their life or somebody elses with a gun, I will find you 20 or more accidental deaths by morons cleaning their guns, crimes of passion between couples, suicides, and paranoid murderers who thought someone was breaking in when they were asking for directions. I won’t even bring up the mass murderers we all know about.
I’m waiting. I will not be holding my breath, because I know you cannot do it.
Your fear is palpable, John. There are going to be people like yourself who are always going to be uncomfortable around guns.
The fact is that I won’t waste the time by spending hours on John Kelly in unproductive arguments with a fearful progressive leftist. I’ll only link here to these:
1. Penn & Teller, Bullshit: Gun Control
youtube.com/watch?v=_YY5Rj4cQ50
2. Mom fires assault rifle to protect family during home invasion
youtube.com/watch?v=hGBEDCxmyzs
3. Georgia Mother Shoots Home Intruder: 911 Tapes
youtube.com/watch?v=JcDk85ZOJUQ
4. _”Home invasions the new ‘fad’ [in Australia since most guns were banned]”_
dailytelegraph.com.au/home-invasions-the-new-fad/story-fn6b3v4f-1226311651859
5. _”Murder Victims, by Weapons Used“_
infoplease.com/ipa/A0004888.html
(Then look up cars.)
You are an intellectual coward. I gave you a chance to bolster your idiotic position and you can’t, because the facts are not on your side. The fearful ones are the ones with guns and paranoid fantasies about what they will do when the (fill in the blanks) attack them for no fucking reason. Statistically these cowardly assholes will die in car crashes, by bee stings and by their own guns, not by the hand of some dangerous criminal. News-flash for the painfully bleeding stupid: you are more likely to be shot if you have a gun in your house… you dumb-asses! The worst part is that your children are more likely to be shot if you have a gun than not… and they never had a choice.
What you want is defenseless serfs, without rights to self defense, of an ever more authoritarian hyper-state apparatus that tells you help is coming.
1. def: democide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide
2. From the school of hard knocks (and tactical amputations), 2012:
_”Sierra Leone legalises civilian use of arms and light weapons“_
http://www.africareview.com/News/Sierra-Leone-legalises-civilian-use-of-arms-and-light-weapons/-/979180/1469098/-/qfe8syz/-/index.html
How did pre-2012 work out for them?
The Founders knew a thing ot two about tyrannies.
Thanks for telling me what I want. How would I know otherwise? You are sadly mistaken and doing what the mental health community would call projecting. I am anti-authoritarian to the core. I simply believe that people should not be able to carry a death stick around and pretend that is has anything to do with a well regulated militia. Are bazookas OK for the consumer as well? How about a bracelet that lets you push a button and vaporize anyone in your path? How about a cell phone that shoots death darts controlled by thoughts alone? Is there anything to dangerous and deadly for you? How about cars with spears mounted on the front of them? Why not?…. after all it is in the 2nd amendment if you are a delusional and breathtakingly ignorant reactionary paranoiac. Now if you want to carry your muzzle loader single shot antique around, have at it, but these modern weapons of war are bad enough in a war zone… when let loose on city streets they are beyond anything the founders ever dreamed of, and the 2nd amendment does not have anything to do with them or your “rights” to have a mass person-killer at hand.
This kind of authoritarian state intervention is attractive to you, John:
_”Doctors’ kitchen knives ban call“_
“Doctors say knives are too pointed”
“A&E doctors are calling for a ban on long pointed kitchen knives to reduce deaths from stabbing.
“A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase – and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.”
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm
BTW:
1. google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=fbi+crime+drops+in+areas+were+guns+
2. _”Study: Despite drop in gun crime, 56% think it’s worse“_
usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/07/gun-crime-drops-but-americans-think-its-worse/2139421/
3. def: democide [(or murder by governments)]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide
4. From the school of hard knocks (and strategic amputations), 2012:
_”Sierra Leone legalises civilian use of arms and light weapons“_
africareview.com/News/Sierra-Leone-legalises-civilian-use-of-arms-and-light-weapons/-/979180/1469098/-/qfe8syz/-/index.html
The Founders understood what tyrannies are, and that they don’t evolve.
“I am anti-authoritarian to the core. I simply believe that people should not be able to carry [, or own, self-defensive implements–and advocate for a totalitarian ban on anybody but the state’s legitimate monopoly].”
Instead of putting quotation marks around something I did not say and attributing it to me, perhaps you should say that you believe you are paraphrasing what I said? In any event, wrong again as per usual…. and you did not answer my questions. I should not be surprised.
Actually.. I must apologize to “debbie”. I was wrong about the gun deaths per year. It is not 10K, more like 32K per year…. but who cares, because freedom!
http://www.salon.com/2014/07/04/10_states_where_guns_are_most_and_least_likely_to_kill_people_partner/
Sorry,the show of guns by citizens with no threat against them is just a show of fear and insecurity.A very curious turn in the land of the free and home of the brave,and a policy carried out internationally.Why are the most belligerent nation states the most insecure?
What’s the answer to this conundrum,more force?A gun in every pocket,like a chicken in every pot?
As there is an overwhelming Zionist presence in Nassau Co.,they are in every govt. capacity,you can bet they will stifle any attempt by Americans to break free from their Zionist shackles,and control of info.And as their have been a multitude of welcome home hero signs for our troops plastered over these same overpasses since 9-11,this is obviously a silencing attempt by the poohbahs of idiocy and disaster.Infowars makes some good points at times,despite their obvious ideological parameters.
Questions:
1) WHY are my fucking comments NEVER published?
2) Where are the fucking ‘REVELATIONS” you promised?
Seen this?
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/interview-with-obama-advisor-john-podesta-on-nsa-and-cyber-security-a-978297.html
Hey, what’s a little spying between friends?
Oh, and there’s also this.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/feedarticle/11424624
There’s probably more of this elsewhere on the Web; this is just the preliminary report.
The NATO partnership must be kept healthy, at all costs.
Thanks coram – Trying to think of any of the “misconceptions” told by Podesta to the US citizens over the years….from the article:
“In order to develop the technological expertise, those performing the oversight end up being so embedded and invested in the system and the bureaucracy itself that they become captive of it. So I think it’s important to have independent analysts, but it’s then incumbent upon them to take the time to really try to understand and do a “deep-dive” on the technology. – John Podesta
But will it happen? Here’s Podesta’s take from his 2008 book on being “progressive:”
“progressive values [are] based on four core lessons: 1) Progressives stand with people, not privilege; 2) Progressives believe in the Common Good and a government that offers a hand up; 3) Progressives hold that all people are equal in the eyes of God and under the law; and 4) Progressives stand for universal human rights and cooperative global security.”
Sounds eminently reasonable. What’s stopping us?
” I’m a Progressive. Much in the same way our founding fathers – who, oddly enough, wouldn’t get elected today – were Progressives.”
– Will Ferrell
Another move on the chessboard:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/10942680/Saudi-Arabia-sends-30000-troops-to-Iraq-border.html
‘…threat of jihadism’ in Saudi Arabia …?
-like the House of Saud for instance?
Chossudovsky’s recent contribution: http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-islamic-state-caliphate-project-and-the-global-war-on-terrorism/5389530
‘In a bitter irony, the caliphate project as an instrument of propaganda has been on the drawing board of US intelligence for more than ten years. In December 2004, under the Bush Administration, the National Intelligence Council (NIC) predicted that in the year 2020 a New Caliphate extending from the Western Mediterranean to Central Asia and South East Asia would emerge, threatening Western democracy and Western values.’
Read your link yesterday.
Excellent article.
Yes, Myers, exactly! It’s not Terrorism™ if our immoral, illegal, unconstitutional governments’ policies are strengthened by it; it’s heaven-sent justification for expanding them.
The American Conservative article by Philip Giraldi that Cindy linked to yesterday is excellent as well. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-to-understand-the-isis-threat/
“……..What the NIC report fails to mention is that US intelligence in liaison with Britain’s MI6 and Israel’s Mossad are covertly involved in supporting both the terrorists and the caliphate project……”
Only an imbecile believes most of what GlobalResearch.com publishes. But they are good for a laugh anyway.
So, do tell Summers, why did US/UK go into Iraq twice under the guise of delivering Freedom™ and instead left them in chaos, destruction, and death?
When US government spokespersons utter the words Freedom and Democracy, as if they cared about them, they should not be believed under any circumstances. Plain incompetence is also a plausible explanation.
The US didn’t invade under the guise of democracy, but to get rid of Saddam. The US Congress passed a bill in 1998 calling for regime change in Iraq – and to support democratic movements within Iraq. Of course, as we have seen in Syria, democratic movements there were crush using tanks, heavy artillery and and the Syrian army.
“……..The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 is a United States Congressional statement of policy calling for regime change in Iraq.[1][2] It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton, and states that it is the policy of the United States to support democratic movements within Iraq. The Act was cited in October 2002 to argue for the authorization of military force against the Iraqi government……The bill was introduced as H.R. 4655 on September 29, 1998. The House of Representatives passed the bill 360 – 38 on October 5, and the Senate passed it with unanimous consent two days later. President Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act into law on October 31, 1998.[3]…..”
The US invaded in 2003 specifically to oust Saddam Hussein – and was successful. Once the mission “was accomplished”, it became one of installing a democracy (remember the purple fingers?) before the insurgency brought the country to a standstill.
The US didn’t leave by executive order, but because the Iraqi government (most certainly under pressure from the Iranians) could not reach an agreement with the US. That was a huge mistake by Maliki and all Iraqis are paying the price today just like all Syrians are paying the price for Assad’s decision to crush the democratic movement in Syria..
No, only an imbecile believes what comes out of Craig Summers crap trap. And he’s not even good enough for a laugh.
btw, halfwit,.here is the author’s credentials…
quote:”About the author:
Michel Chossudovsky is an award-winning author, Professor of Economics (emeritus) at the University of Ottawa, Founder and Director of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), Montreal and Editor of the globalresearch.ca website. He is the author of The Globalization of Poverty and The New World Order (2003) and America’s “War on Terrorism”(2005). His most recent book is entitled Towards a World War III Scenario: The Dangers of Nuclear War (2011). He is also a contributor to the Encyclopaedia Britannica. His writings have been published in more than twenty languages.”unquote
vs your bullshit.
GR is an anti American conspiracy site which is why you are so quick to defend it. “Professor” has such a professional and credible sound to it. Chossudovsky is in Wikipedia:
“…….Terry O’Neill, in the Western Standard included Chossudovsky on the list of “Canada’s nuttiest professors, those whose absurdity stands head and shoulders above their colleagues”;[13] criticizing Chussodovsky’s thesis and views — that the U.S. had knowledge of the September 11 attacks before they happened; that Washington had weapons that could influence climate change; and lastly, that the large banking institutions are the cause of the collapse of smaller economies — as “wild-eyed conspiracy theories”.[13]……”
Yep, PRIOR knowledge of 911. You have zero credibility when you say something that fucking stupid. Do you buy it Chronicle?
Well, chronicle?
Well,as there were a myriad amount of warnings to the Shrub and his circle jerk of traitors and moles prior to the event that changed everything,calling a person who points it out as unreliable,makes one laugh when you remember how unreliable all the monsters are and were with every policy disaster since.
And the traitors and moles haven’t left that inner sanctum of power since Obombas election,they’ve just rearranged the seating,witness their track record of absolute futility ,unless one calls nation destroying an accomplishment.
@Summers
Right Summers. But the difference between what the stated intent is and what really happens is an unbridgeable chasm. Prior to our first invasion I recall that our ambassador to Iraq gave Saddam verbal confirmation that the US had no interest in his relations with Kuwait. What he did was his business and his alone. He told her what he was going to do and she assured him we’d not interfere.
Why would the ambassador be instructed to misrepresent US intentions?
The guise was that the Iraqi people were going to be freed from their dictator, our well paid strong man. It was a party with beer guzzling and cheering with each hideous strike. The CNN audience behaved as if they were watching a football game with fireworks. And it was under the guise of bringing democracy, just as you said, “… to support democratic movements within Iraq.”
Thanks for your measured responses. Saledin, like Saddam was from Tikrit and I wonder if there is both courage and sage members of Arab culture who can lead in this morass in the ME. We can only hope for sane voices and behaviors.
“……Why would the ambassador be instructed to misrepresent US intentions?…..”
She wasn’t. The idea that we gave Saddam the green light to invade Kuwait is incorrect. The Ambassador never gave anyone a green light to invade and annex Kuwait. Why would the US do that? That has been misstated time and time again. Saddam was strapped for cash after the war with Iran and made the decision to invade. It’s possible he misunderstood the US Ambassador. I don’t know.
“…….The CNN audience behaved as if they were watching a football game with fireworks. And it was under the guise of bringing democracy, just as you said, “… to support democratic movements within Iraq.”…..”
Well, it’s clear that removing Saddam was an act of liberation (under all circumstances), but the idea of the invasion was primarily to remove Saddam from power – especially in light of 911. Remember that Saddam had used WMDs on the Kurds and Iranians , attempted to develop nuclear weapons, had invaded two countries, had played cat and mouse games with the inspectors for years and had launched missiles capable of carrying chemical weapons at Israel (unprovoked). So removing Saddam from power became a priority for the Bush administration after 911.
However, the US did bring a democratic vote to Iraq – and the Iraqis (legitimately) voted for the first time in their history before the insurgency gained momentum.
Thanks.
Might I add, as a postcript to the above, I believe T.E Lawrence derived his philosophy directly from Saledin. Truly a remarkable man.
@Summers
From the World Association of International Studies at Stanford:
“Saddam Hussein – As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we (the Iraqis) meet (with the Kuwaitis) and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death.
U.S. Ambassador Glaspie – What solutions would be acceptable?
Saddam Hussein – If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab – our strategic goal in our war with Iran – we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (i.e., in Saddam’s view, including Kuwait ) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States’ opinion on this?
U.S. Ambassador Glaspie – We have no opinion on your Arab – Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960’s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. (Saddam smiles)
On August 2, 1990 four days later, Saddam’s massed troops invade and occupy Kuwait.
and
THE NEW YORK TIMES INTERNATIONAL
SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 1990
Excerpts From Iraqi Document on Meeting with U.S. Envoy
GLASPIE: I think I understand this. I have lived here for years. I admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. I know you need funds. We understand that and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait. I was in the American Embassy in Kuwait during the late 60’s. The instruction we had during this period was that we should express no opinion on this issue and that the issue is not associated with America. James Baker* has directed our official spokesmen to emphasize this instruction. We hope you can solve this problem using any suitable methods via Klibi or via President Mubarak. All that we hope is that these issues are solved quickly. With regard to all of this, can I ask you to see how the issue appears to us?”
You’ll recall at the time, Summers, that James Baker was Secretary of State, formerly Reagan’s Chief of Staff, who had close relations with the CIA. He’d helped set up Zapata Petroleum for Bush (43), in conjunction with CIA’s Operation Zapata in the Caribbean. We’re not talking about above board people who love freedom and democracy. If James Baker told Glaspie to tell Saddam something, he had a very good, I mean bad, reason.
http://wais.stanford.edu/Iraq/iraq_andambassaprilglaspie22303.html
I’m familiar with the dialogue seer, but I went back to review some of the statements by Gillespie. Acccording to the New York Times (Gillespie):
“…….My assessment after 25 years’ service in this area is that your objective must have strong backing from your Arab brothers. I now speak of oil. But you, Mr. President, have fought through a horrific and painful war. Frankly, we can only see that you have deployed massive troops in the south. Normally that would not be any of our business. But when this happens in the context of what you said on your national day, then when we read the details in the two letters of the Foreign Minister, then when we see the Iraqi point of view that the measures taken by the U.A.E. and Kuwait is, in the final analysis, parallel to military aggression against Iraq, then it would be reasonable for me to be concerned. And for this reason, I received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship – not in the spirit of confrontation – regarding your intentions…….”
There is nothing in that statement which suggests that the US supports any kind of invasion by Iraq. The Ambassador shows “concern” for the “massive” troop buildup near Kuwait in conjunction with statements that Saddam has made recently and her concern about a possible invasion is detailed in this statement.
“……..Normally that would not be any of our business……”
According to Wikipedia:
“…….According to Richard E. Rubenstein, Glaspie was later asked by British journalists why she had said that, her response was “we didn’t think he would go that far” meaning invade and annex the whole country. Although no follow-up question was asked, one might assume that what the U.S. government thought in July 1990 was that Saddam Hussein was only interested in pressuring Kuwait into debt forgiveness and to lower oil production.[30]……”
In addition, Saddam had stated that a meeting was set up with Kuwait in a couple of days and Gillespie congratulated him. He invaded in four surprising the Arab world and the US (and Russia). It seems to me that Saddam simply misinterpreted the Ambassador’s statements. But I admit that she should have been far more direct. Regardless, the US reaction to the invasion is clear evidence that the US did not support an invasion of Kuwait – and it’s a real stretch to suggest that the US wanted an invasion so they could oust Hussein militarily.
Thanks.
Wasn’t there another family in Saudi that was making trouble? Ben Ladle or something like that?
The first clue to GlobalResearch is when they say………..
“………What the NIC report fails to mention……..”
So he (the author) filled in the blank. He could have said:
“……What the NIC report fails to mention……” is that the US, Israel and Britain are secretly supporting the reemergence of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact – and supported the Russian annexation of Crimea. This “provides a justification in the eyes of public opinion for America to intervene Worldwide…..”
What reason do you have in your pocket that explains why USAID, the CIA, and the State Department instigated a coup in Ukraine?
And remember the last ten or more years have seen NATO and US establishing missile shield defense systems aimed at Russia. Of course, Russia was definitely indulging in conspiracy theory to have noticed and then get all riled by those peaceful acts.
“……..What reason do you have in your pocket that explains why USAID, the CIA, and the State Department instigated a coup in Ukraine?……”
I think you are leading the witness – something I am sure Mona has done during her career. First you have to establish that there was a western-inspired coup(?), don’t you think? At the same time, you have just insulted the Ukrainian people. After all, many spent decades under Soviet rule so protesting democratically against the Ukrainian government because they turned down an economic package with the EU seems like a fair reaction to continued Russian domination in their internal affairs. Some people (Intercept included) even had the nerve of accusing the west of interfering in the “interests” of Russia. Russia has no inherent right to anything in Ukraine.
How many other eastern European countries joined the EU and NATO after the USSR self destructed? What was their reasoning, and were they all coups? Why don’t we start with a better economic future and an opening to bolt from Russian domination i.e., out of the Russian sphere of influence. Many understood quite rightly that the “bear” may not be down for long.
There didn’t need to be a “coup”. Russia just needed to continue acting like her former self. The illegal annexation of the Crimean Peninsula only accelerated the inevitable – and the new President of Ukraine just signed a deal with the EU. Now if they can just get rid of the Russian separatist who keep shooting down helicopters with advanced weaponry………
@Summers
From Peter Hitchens:
Who is using spies and lies to grab power in Kiev? We are
~
What would you think if Russia’s spy chief had been discovered last week, roaming round Ukraine?
The British media would have been raging and howling about sinister Kremlin meddling.
Well, as far as I know, no such visit took place. But something just as astonishing did happen. John Brennan, Director of the CIA, was, in fact, in Kiev last week, and I do not think he was there for the nightlife.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2608679/PETER-HITCHENS-Who-using-spies-lies-grab-power-Kiev-We-are.html
@Summers
From Michael Shank, Ph.D., associate director for legislative affairs at the Friends Committee on National Legislation and adjunct faculty at George Mason University’s School for Conflict Analysis and Resolution, and Daniel L. Davis, a Lt. Col. in the U.S. Army who has deployed into combat zones four times.
Dirt on Our Hands
Misguided U.S. foreign policy is partly to blame for the crisis in Ukraine
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/world-report/2014/04/29/american-hubris-partly-to-blame-for-the-ukraine-russia-crisis
First of all, by mid April, Crimea had been annexed and eastern Ukraine was directly being influenced – according to Hitchens – by Russia. That the CIA was working with the new Ukraine government is certainly consistent with providing intelligence on Russian troop movements and Russian separatist in eastern Ukraine. The US has exceptional military intelligence capability. This no proof that the US staged a coup anymore than the EU signing the recent agreement with the new elected government of Kiev was because they participated in a coup with the US – and it’s ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
The key here is that you PREFER a story where the US overthrew the “legitimately elected” government of Ukraine. But the protest began because of Russian “influence” in the Ukraine economy. The protest began because the Ukraine government turned down closer economic ties with the EU (How does that involve the US?). It was Viktor Yanukovych that cracked down on innocent protesters killing about 100. This is likely to have been prodded by Russia. The government went into hiding and the Ukraine legislature ousted Victor.
Finally, it was Russia that illegally annexed the Crimea Peninsula. That broke their own agreement recognizing the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Why is this OK with you, seer?
There is no proof of a coup by the US – and Russia certainly has no more of a right to interfere in Ukraine than the US. The Ukrainian government has every right to develop economic ties with whomever they choose even if they are in the Russian “sphere of influence”.
Just out of curiosity, even IF Glenn were to finally publish this so called “list”, exactly WHAT do you think it will accomplish? As far as I’m concerned, notwithstanding enlightening the entire planet to the reality of the NSA surveillance state, Congressional reaction to said revelations has resulted in almost ZERO repercussions on a Statute level. The only real piece of legislation is the piece of shit known as The Freedumb Act. And we all know what it does. Ha! So, what do you think publishing this list will accomplish…besides letting certain people know they are on the list?
damn, this was supposed to be a reply to Ben Franklin below. My bad.
“besides letting certain people know they are on the list?”
GG said he was saving the best for last; that it was a ‘blockbuster’. Naming names puts a public face on it, but how do we know what lurks therein? Obviously, the US is concerned, and not just about danger to individuals who might be exposed to harm, including the State apparatus.
Saladin wasn’t an Arab,but a Kurd.They sure seemed to get along a lot better than before that splinter(Israel) was inserted into the region,eh?In fact,I can’t remember any western tales of ethnic collisions in the region other than Turks and Armenians post WW1.IOW;It’s all a Zio and Western destabilization campaign of divide and conquer,ala the Yinon Plan.
And the Kurds have been unable to establish a nation for the last 2000 years and now we and Israel will?Sheesh,expect the woist,in NYese.
The results are quite predictable. Mainstream reaction will be to justify anything that’s revealed by arguing that the targets either deserved to be under surveillance, or that it’s not at all surprising that they would be under surveillance.
Glenn; Publish or Perish. You don’t want to be ‘scooped’.
BTW, have there been any confirmed sightings of Glenn in the last 48 hours or so? Disappearance has a sinister meaning in that part of the world.
I’m more concerned that Matt Taibbi has been incommunicado since Feb.
He’s still a-tweetin’ Ben. https://twitter.com/mtaibbi
Thx seer. I don’t tweet but I’m glad he’s got his toes in the water.
For that matter, the canary in Glenn’s mineshaft is still tweeting for now.
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald
Should’ve checked over there, and not in the nest here.
A student from Erlangen, Germany (my birthplace) is specifically target of the NSA. Do they seek enlightment? ;-)
“erleuchtung zu erlangen kann verglichen werden mit wasser, das sich von trübstoffen klärt…”
“becoming enlightened can be compared to water cleared of sediments, gold cleansed of impurities, or the sky cleared of clouds.”
http://www.linguee.de/deutsch-englisch/uebersetzung/erleuchtung%20erlangen.html
Supporting documentation.
http://cryptome.org/2014/07/nsa-tor-de.htm
RT is also running an article today entitled: “XKeyscore exposed: How NSA tracks all German Tor users as ‘extremists’.” 3 Jul 14 1315
That’s a hint for chronicle above. A NATO partnership breech is a genuine threat to the conspiracy.
That it is and it is happening.
“Breech.” That’s one way of putting it.
Breech, as in when the head comes out last.
More on the problem with Tor (h/t Pedinska)
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/07/nsa_targets_pri.html
Plenty of hyperlinks.
Wonder if this is the reason for the sudden silence?
Fun fact: tomorrow, the people of the former United States observe the Fourth of July, in which they celebrate the blessings of liberty. Well, the beer and fireworks are still good, anyway.
You don’t have to be a paranoid troll to wonder what the hell is going on. Greenwald said many times that “this is not for anyone’s entertainment” so the statement comparing the latest story to a fireworks display seems out of character I would say. Three of the most prolific progressive journalists — Greenwald, Scahill, and Taibbi have stopped publishing since becoming associated with Omidyar. It doesn’t take nine months to set up a website.
http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/
I now spend more time at infowars then would normally held to be healthy.
Minervia facebook and the intercept.
Psych ops and you are the playees.
Game over humans
everyman for himself.
Supporting link: http://rt.com/usa/169848-pentagon-facebook-study-minerva/
All is not lost yet.
But much truth here: “Psych ops and you are the playees.”
TI possibly the largest playground.
Take care tombrown’s schooleddaze’….I have enjoyed your poetry.
Soon we can see the Snowden documents for ourselves and this waiting for Glenn will cease.
Good old Cryptome and Wikileaks they publish the docs not stories.
That is the spirit . Publish or be damned.
http://www.vocativ.com/tech/hacking/snowden-leaks-way/
(snip)
I noticed that yesterday and bookmarked both sites.
Thanks for posting.
GG’s recent accommodation to US.gov may mean time is limited for release
‘Prior restraint’, for now, is a voluntary action.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/cryptome-snowden-docs-released-july-prevent-war-2/193362/
We do what we do and, all voluntarily – that’s the mark of a democracy. Do you need more proof? >:\
I suspect the freedumb we enjoy, in it’s current form will be a distant memory, longed for, as in the good ol’ days.
ISIS: The New Taliban
Ahmed Rashid
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/jul/02/iraqs-new-taliban/?insrc=wbll
Good article. Ahmed Rashid is very knowledgeable. I believe he is from Pakistan and has worked in that area for a very long time.
Thanks. Yes, he wrote one of the most definitive books on the Taliban. Descent into Chaos is also a very good book.
http://www.amazon.com/Descent-into-Chaos-Disaster-Afghanistan/dp/014311557X
I’ve read the “Taliban”, but not “Decent Into Chaos” which I’m sure would be well worth reading.
Thanks.
Rashid left out the important detail that the old Taliban and IS, formerly ISIS, were/are both funded and armed by the West, primarily the US & UK.
“…….Rashid left out the important detail that the old Taliban and IS, formerly ISIS, were/are both funded and armed by the West, primarily the US & UK……”
Yea, how could we have overlooked that? We also (accidentally) left out that the US secretly funded the Soviet…..a Russian annexation of Crimea. I’m sure that Greenwald will eventually cover that topic.
@Summers
No, we did not fund that, but we sure did instigate it. What do you think the US would do if Mexico managed to entice the mayor of San Diego to re-join the federal republic of Mexico, thereby threatening to take with him the multitude of military bases in the environs of San Diego to Mexico? I’ll wager you’d support the US moving to prevent that unthinkable event. You’d do it in a flash!
Seer, you are wrong. The U.S. was not a primary financier of the Taliban. That would be Pakistan. The U.S. was mostly disengaged from Afghanistan during the 1990s when the Taliban rose to power and other than the Stinger repurchase program and maybe some small sums, The US was not a big financier of the Taliban.
You and Summers should have a Ziokumbaya,if you haven’t already.No,the guilty hands of Zionism and AlCIAda are not all over the ME,Pakistan and Africa,and the world,it’s all a figment of our imagination,and Israelis are the finest most wonderful people ever created.
sheesh.Hey,if I give you 200 foreskins of dead Philistines,can I marry your daughter?
“…….No,the guilty hands of Zionism and AlCIAda are not all over the ME,Pakistan and Africa,and the world,it’s all a figment of our imagination,and Israelis are the finest most wonderful people ever created…..”
Those pesky Jews. Got their hands in everything – especially our wallets. And those three teenagers from Israel had it coming.
As always dahoit, your posts are a pleasure.
Correct Nate.
The Intercept seems like it is a million/billion dollar failure. Predictions by Cryptome and others suggested there would be 40 + yrs of relevant and important data at current release rates back in 2013. The only rational conclusions: there is no more data, Intercept and Staff has been compromised or there is no more relevant data now GG is trying to profit by selling books, hats, pens and speeches suggesting there might be more when there really is not.
Greenback$ is withholding the list of victims being spied on, and we’re supposed to be okay with that while he “clears” it with the imperialists who maintain the list. Guess those poor people are just going to have to hold their horses a little while longer because Greenback$ has to cash in on his celebrity just a little bit more with this “oh wait sorry the fireworks barge never left the pier don’t Put Stars By It yet.” And doesn’t explain any of it. For all we know, he’s lying about USG “claims.”
#mediaopportunist #toxicshitspew #reactionarycapitalist #transparencycanwait #daddygreenbacks
Again, you now sound very peculiar, and self-parodying.
@ PutShitIntoTheEquation:
Your act is quite weak. May I suggest that you refine your trolling skills?
Your ability to discredit Mr. Greenwald is threatened by your own robotic remarks.
Does the NSA provide refresher courses?
What the heck is your problem, seriously? First off, there’s no evidence The Intercept is clearing anything with the US government. But it’s basic journalism to get their comments and counter-claims. Second, of course they shouldn’t publish names without the consent of the targets, for reasons that should be fairly obvious.
The PCLOB Report on the Surveillance Program Operated Pursuant to Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
http://www.pclob.gov/All%20Documents/Report%20on%20the%20Section%20702%20Program/PCLOB-Section-702-Report.pdf
*The EFF Calls Gov (PCLOB) Report Supporting Surveillance ‘Legally Flawed And Factually Incomplete.’*
“The EFF, often the voice of dissent on this sort of issue, called the report ‘legally flawed and factually incomplete.’ Its core argument against the report is that it fails to properly deal with the issue of upstream collection, that it doesn’t handle privacy protection for non-U.S. persons, and that the document hides ‘behind the ‘complexity’ of the technology’ employed by the U.S. government in its surveillance efforts… The EFF also dismisses the PCLOB’s constitutional analysis, stating that the Fourth Amendment ‘requires a warrant for searching the content of communication’ and that under ‘Section 702, the government searches through content without a warrant.'”
http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/02/the-eff-calls-gov-report-supporting-surveillance-legally-flawed-and-factually-incomplete/
Hard-hitting! Shouldn’t this be, you know, #breaking news?
Liberal “freedom” enterprise finds USG report inaccurate. News at zzzzzzzzzz.
Everybody relax. The “EFF” is on it!
I think we all appreciate your detailed commentary. Please tell us more about everyone you hate
Thanks Cindy, I still have a lot of reading to do to see if EFF’s complaints resonate but part of me is skeptical of the EFF’s claims. Like so many advocacy groups, stuff’s all good when people agree with them (i.e. EFF’s comments on the PCLOB’s Section 215 analysis @ https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/01/privacy-oversight-board-agrees-eff-mass-surveillance-illegal-and-must-end) but since their isn’t enough teeth it is “legally flawed and factually incomplete”…I’ll reserve judgment until I read for myself.
That there is even debate about the constitutionality is depressing to me (I think the NSA have overreached way too much, and been grotesquely deceptive), but I guess that’s what this is about – hashing out just what we as a nation will tolerate.
“hashing out just what we as a nation will tolerate.” cannot be the defining nature of who we are. Either we have a constitution and we live by and within it’s precepts or we throw it out and try something else. I believe the constitution was a very well crafted document and is worth fighting for.
Perhaps you misunderstand me. I agree with you, John. It appears others think the Constitution is more open to interpretation than you and I consider it to be. When I said I didn’t like the idea of debating whether or not the NSA’s behavior is constitutional I meant that I consider it obviously not constitutional, but it seems this is not the nation’s prime directive, and this I find depressing.
The ‘hashing it out’ thing is based on Edward Snowden’s wish that the American people will make their decisions based on the revelations, and it is nothing short of tragic that the Constitution is so ‘up for grabs’ at this precarious moment, when that should indeed be the defining factor – to my mind the establishment is telling us they will interpret it, not we the people after all.
I don’t want hashing it out to define who we are either, but it has come to that evidently because the corporatism and militaristic overreach are now entrenched, and Constitutionalists are being told what their document may or may not mean by the elite.
“it is nothing short of tragic that the Constitution is so ‘up for grabs’ at this precarious moment, when that should indeed be the defining factor – to my mind the establishment is telling us they will interpret it, not we the people after all.”
Well said – extremely frustrating is an understatement – a travesty is more like it.
There is also this about the PCLOB:
“They say if we’re collecting everything from Egypt that’s not bulk, everything from [area code] 202 that’s not bulk, everything from gmail.com that’s not bulk, and that’s just bullshit,” said Jennifer Granick of the Stanford Law School’s Center for Internet and Society.
Thanks.
For somebody who supposedly “co-authored” the BIG!! SKY FULL OF STARS!!! FIREWORKS!! COINTELPRO!! FED GOV TAKEDOWN!!! article, “Maz” Hussein has spent an awful lot of time twittering in the past two days.
Is he the shiny object? Look over here while Greenback$ jives your liberal and reactionary asses from that-away.
Hey, asstroll, take your goddam meds. You’ve been spamming this board with nothing substantive, just derogatory rants against GG. You apparently have some kind of sicko obsession with him. We get it already, you don’t like him; you’ve made that clear a thousand times. Give it a rest, comrade. You’re not only monomaniacal, you sound like an incoherent half-wit.
Anger issues? :)
Sounds like I hit a nerve. You have a nice day now.
Don’t feed the trolls. Just ignore him or her or it. I can’t imagine the NSA or FBI or CIA or whatever letter combo they can think up does NOT have their legion of government stooges trolling on here and all other sites that don’t sing around the campfire with them. I imagine there is a whole agency dedicated to trolling with a multi-billion dollar budget. Our tax dollars at work.
“Don’t feed the trolls.
Precisely. Without care and feeding, they do tend to wither and die.
Actually, your constant obsessive I-hate-Greenwald bs also fits that “shiny object” assertion, quite well.
Perhaps TI’s paying you to provide target-of-hostility services in some insidious secret NSA experiment – to intentionally create and measure greater frustration levels among commenters here…?
You bastiches!
‘bastiches’. I’m stealing that.
Pretty sure I heard it on Comedy Central; South Park, Jon Stewart’s or Colbert’s writers are probably to blame.
Well you deserve credit for the ‘linguistic ear’.
*US Troops Will Fly Attack Helicopters in Iraq*
“Today, the Pentagon is rushing Apache attack helicopters to Baghdad, along with more Shadow drones, couching it as a move to prepare for a possible evacuation of the US Embassy. Yet far from being focused on the embassy itself, officials say the US ground troops will be operating the helicopter gunships to ‘protect US interests’ in and around Baghdad.”
http://news.antiwar.com/2014/07/01/us-troops-will-fly-attack-helicopters-in-iraq/
Thanks Cindy.
Russian pilots are already flying the Sukhoi Su-25 combat fighter jets al-Maliki just bought from Putin.
This chess game is looking grim.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/01/exclusive-putin-s-pilots-set-to-fly-over-iraq.html
I find the situation considerably dubious.
ISIS, or ISIL, or as of today they call themselves IS, Islamic State (I read somewhere), has weapons that had been stored in Benghazi after being seized from Gaddafi during the humanitarian (led from behind) intervention of 2011, including shoulder fired missile launchers.
The situation is dangerous for the ME and beyond. But it’s not surprising. The more Terror™ there is in the world, the greater is the power of Terrorism™ to persuade many that surveillance is good, and privacy bad.
Ex-CIA officer Philip Giraldi carefully examines the fear mongering and war mongering aspects of this:
“Former U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker’s recent featured op-ed in the Washington Post is equally lacking in subtlety in making the argument for an American return to an active role in Baghdad: ‘We would be foolish to think that ISIS will not plan attacks against the West now that it has the space and security to do so.’ The subliminal message being delivered is ‘act now before a guy with a beard, carrying a Kalashnikov, moves in next door.’ Perhaps not so oddly, we have heard variations on that theme before, something about a mushroom cloud rising over Washington. And just as in the case of the mushroom cloud claim, one has to ask ‘Where is the evidence?’ The intelligence community has been largely silent about the impending threat, apart from admitting that it has limited capabilities to collect information in Iraq and Syria largely because the CIA no longer knows how to spy in places that are challenging. That admission has been coupled with generic assurances that Washington’s spooks have been monitoring the situation and are concerned over developments… Given the lack of good intelligence, it perhaps should not be surprising that there has been little serious discussion of the alleged terrorist threat. If there are ISIS terrorists actively preparing for and capable of staging terrorist attacks in the United States, it would be a serious matter indeed, though one might in any case question the hyperbole of a second 9/11 being advanced by some of the advocates of immediate military action. But if the danger is real, the government has failed to make the case in any reasonable fashion, nor has it taken preventive action to address the policies that might have created the homegrown jihadi threat in the first place. And if the alleged plot is in fact being orchestrated using former residents of the United States, substantially increasing its plausibility, that too should be something that the White House ought to be examining in a serious way. Yet apart from generic fear mongering, vague numbers, and allegations about Americans traveling to the Middle East to engage in jihad, there has been little discussion of what the current terrorist threat actually is, and no consideration at all of reasonable steps that might be taken to contain it.”
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-to-understand-the-isis-threat/
ah,but in official American policy,shouldn’t we be flying wing to wing with the Russians over the attempt at our puppets overthrow?
The webs we weave.
This is interesting. While Glenn Greenwald has been traveling around promoting email encryption to the audiences on his book tour, Paypal which is owned by Pierre Omidya, is making it difficult for encryption services to reach more people: http://www.thehackernews.com/2014/07/paypal-freezes-275000-campaign-funds-of.html
The reason given for the freeze is that governments do not approve of encryption services.
The company ProtonMail said on twitter at 11.30 a.m yesterday that PayPal had restored their account:
“We are happy to announce that @PayPal has restored our account access. Thanks to your support, this happened in record time!”
PayPal says it was some kind of technical difficulty. See the two updates (halfway down the page) on the following article.
http://www.dailydot.com/politics/paypal-protonmail-freeze/
“See the two updates (halfway down the page) on the following article.”-Cindy
Which includes this:
I don’t know what they wrote in the earlier draft but this deal where Omidyar is personally held responsible for everything he has ever been in the room with is old school yellow journalism.
The bit in the article that was supposed to be a conversation with the PayPal representative was also fishy. If the rep really said that about government not allowing encryption, he or she would have to have been quite ignorant. I think it more likely that the author of the blog post got his or her facts wrong or was being dishonest about the conversation. PayPal has been doing business with companies providing encryption services almost since before curtains were invented.
The strange and sporadic push to shame Omidyar somehow, anyhow, seems absurdly and transparently crass to me, also. I don’t know what the piece said earlier either, I just linked to the article as it had more details.
My comment, for the record, was in reply to Larry for having posted the article in the first place and for having added his unhelpful editorial commentary. It was an addendum and thanks to you for posting the update comment — which, by the way, I also saw yesterday, so Larry is just posting “news” at pre-internet speed.
Does Omidyar pay you to apologize for him or do you do it for free? Come on, he could cough up a few bucks for you to buy banjo strings or something, right? Oh, sorry, no worries, I see you just do it for free because oligarch billionnaires especially the ones cheering Neonazi leaders are so cool and rad.
And you said you’re not a Neonazi like your bud Mona. You little devil, you’re not fooling anybody.
There is nothing in my recent comment or any other comment where I have “apologized for him.”
No, I never said I’m not a Neonazi, because I would never bother to dignify such idiocy.
As Cindy said, you’re a parody of yourself. It’s becoming increasingly pathetic.
That you, of all people, would accuse others of getting paid for their comments is one of the more hilarious things I read today..
Revisiting Snowden’s Hong Kong Getaway
WSJ
The NSA supposedly doesn’t know what Snowden took – so this ‘list of compromised computers’ would appear to be simply speculation. If other countries have agents working for contractors at the NSA, (quite possible), I assume those agents would simply pass on the information secretly while remaining in their position with privileged access to any new information. If they were compromised for some reason, they would simply go underground – the NSA would hardly be likely to make a public announcement (they are supposedly a covert agency – as difficult to believe as that may be).
Anything is possible, but those maintaining that Snowden is acting on behalf of some foreign government have the burden of proof to demonstrate that fact. If he were, I find it hard to believe that the NSA is so incompetent they would not have uncovered some evidence of it by now. I find it even harder to believe they would be reticent about presenting that evidence, rather than simply letting some scribe at the WSJ make unsupported insinuations.
I do admit to wondering whether Snowden was working for the CIA. Highlighting the NSA’s failures might lead to the CIA being given more direct control over the data collection activities, so they would have a motive. It must annoy the CIA and FBI that they can only access PRISM directly and not the upstream data. However, this too is simply speculation, not supported by any facts.
I completely agree, but I didn’t think this article’s contents were insinuation, but just pointing out little oddities and inconsistencies.
I highly doubt that annoys the FBI and CIA very much. As of mid-2011, 91 percent of the Internet communications that the NSA acquired each year were obtained through PRISM. Furthermore, the FBI and CIA don’t receive ALL data from PRISM, just some.
Here’s that Putin interview. The WSJ report leaves some things out. Basically what Putin is claiming is that Snowden had approached the Russian consulate while in Hong Kong, but they had turned him down. Then Snowden took a flight to Ecuador with Sarah Harrison (this was an initiative of Wikileaks). Evidently, the only way to get from Hong Kong to Ecuador through countries where capture can be avoided is via Russia and Cuba. Putin claims he wasn’t even aware Snowden was going to land in Moscow 2 hours prior to arrival.
Thanks for that link, Jose. An excerpt:
“As time passes, the United States will probably understand that it has been dealing with a person who has certain beliefs that can be judged differently, rather than with a traitor or a spy. And some compromises might be found in this case. Do not ask me. It is his life and he has opted for it by himself. He believes this is noble and justified and that such sacrifices are necessary – it is his choice.”
– Vladimir Putin
Evidence of a crime would enable due process. Unwarranted surveillance is a state crime and should be fully disclosed by the press.
I hope for full disclosure of all targets, perhaps online with encryption.
It is floating on the Net that Glenn will not be publishing all the names of Americans who were targeted by FISA warrants, and that he is only publishing names of those he has contacted.
So am I correct that multitudes of innocent Americans will I’ve out the rest of their lives never knowing they were a target of the NSA?
Is this correct, Glenn?
Greenwald cannot just publish all of the names on the list. Some might still be under investigation for any number of reasons.
“……..So am I correct that multitudes of innocent Americans will I’ve out the rest of their lives never knowing they were a target of the NSA?…..”
And maybe even some that weren’t innocent.
It is “floating on the net”? Well golly-gee, that’s enough for me! Instead of waiting for something actually credible, how about we treat Small Town’s floating words like truth and, even better, draw conclusions and ask hypothetical questions based on the assumption that it’s actually true!?
Provide a link to your floating words if you want to be taken seriously.
“Floating on the net” pretty much sums up the quality of that article you quoted at length from the WSJ.
That was an entire article that I posted because it was behind the WSJ paywall. And yes, that article is infinitely better than this currently non-existent story.
Kitt swings and strikes out again!!
Struck out on what. You posted an article that is a rehash of the same ridiculous accusations about Snowden that should never be written by a “journalist” without something resembling proof. I’d be embarrassed if I had quoted such nonsense…and then doubled down with your childish reply of yours to me.
And on a puny point that you made: I know that WSJ is paywall, and I know that that was your excuse for why you quoted what appears to be nearly the whole damned thing.
Writing a bunch of drivel, as you did, and then concluding it with your, “strikes out again,” based on nothing but your preceding drivel, does not make for a convincing “argument.”
Nate likes to pay to be lied to,I find it abhorrent,just like the whole MSM.
Reading the website of the NYTs the other day(they now send you first to a pay to read site,they must be getting desperate)they implied the beaten American “was caught on a security tape”as if he was the perp,not the assailants.A predisposed person would probably not even read further to see that the implication was wrong and he the victim.
STR, giving Nate and Kit a time out.
We are a target of military intelligence and paramilitary forces. We have unverifiable verbal whistle blowers and no secret docs.
“Whole families disappear of those that do not cooperate with the military”.
We spent tens of thousand USD on legal discovery and depositions. Very scary stuff. Looking forward to the docs and fireworks…
GREAT stuff here. This guy is very much a non-interventionist and personal liberty classical libertarian, not a Tea Party stereotype.
Show 275 – The Specter of Dissent
Sat, 24 May 2014 – 1:18:03 minutes
http://traffic.libsyn.com/dancarlin/cswdcc75.mp3
Topic – The worst nightmare of the global Establishment isn’t Islamic terrorism, it’s critical mass levels of domestic dissent. If that’s your worst worry, wouldn’t you use every tool you had to forestall it? Dan thinks they are.
Referenced:
1. “The Six Principles of the New Populism (and the Establishment’s Nightmare)” by Robert Reich, May 6, 2014
2. “Sen. Warren’s Floor Speech in Opposition to Michael Froman’s Nomination for U.S. Trade Representative” (Text of speech on the Senate Floor)
3. “Glenn Greenwald: from Martin Luther King to Anonymous, the state targets dissenters not just “bad guys” ” by Glenn Greenwald for The Guardian Newspaper, May 12, 2014.
Show 277 – Riding Chaos to Stasis
Tue, 24 Jun 2014 – 1:05:59 minutes
http://traffic.libsyn.com/dancarlin/cswdcc77.mp3
Topic – The Middle East seems to be imploding. Dan thinks this is likely all part of a natural process of redrawing artificial borders and re-balancing power relationships. But that doesn’t mean it’s going to be fun to live through.
Announcements and other messages from the dark side of the moon:
Glenn Greenwald @ggreenwald · 2h
Ag-gag laws are a threat to animals, free speech, and a free press https://www.thedodo.com/if-you-care-about-animals-you–611332172.html …
There is labor and there is management … if I was management, I would not have posted this./
Has nothing to do with the animals. Greenback$ is some kind of First Amendment purist, as evidenced by his support of the Supreme Court decision upholding the First Amendment rights of animal torture pornographers.
It’s pretty pathetic how tightly Greenback$ clings to the Constitution. But capitalist reactionaries tend to do that, don’t they.
You’re beginning to sound like a parody of yourself already. Which is pretty weird.
Are you saying he didn’t support the animal torture porn ruling? Or are you saying you don’t care because First Amendment?
I’m saying you now sound very peculiar, and self-parodying.
“This is not just an issue of animal abuse — it’s a first amendment right’s issue, a freedom of press issue and an environmental issue.”
It is an important matter but this particular article does not provide a direct link to a petition. Thanks for posting anyway.
snip..
‘WASHINGTON: The US port city of Seattle enacted laws on Monday raising minimum wage for workers to $15 an hour, the highest in America, thanks in large part to a movement led by Kshama Sawant, a self-described socialist born in Pune, India. Sawant, 41, whose election to the Seattle City Council as a Socialist Alternative candidate last November was first reported in ToI, based her campaign largely on proposals such as raising hourly wages for workers to $15 and taxing the rich, slogans that are anathema in a country where terms such as socialism and socialist are treated with deep suspicion and disdain. But her campaign ignited support from the working class among the 400,000-strong electoral college in a liberal city that is better known for storied companies such as Microsoft and Boeing, located in nearby enclaves of Redmond and Everett.’
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Pune-born-socialist-Kshama-Sawant-scores-for-Seattle-Record-15-an-hour-minimum-wage-for-workers/articleshow/36011205.cms
ht`lyra
This is the second time that I am attempting to post this comment.
With regard to some of the prolific trolling that been occurring within the comments section of TI……..
“The Cyber Warfare specialists of Fort Huachuca, operating well outside the authority of the US Constitution, censor the internet, run “sock puppet” websites spreading propaganda and disinformation, orchestrate smear campaigns against journalists and activists who are not under total control and use electronic countermeasures to silence freedom of speech. ”
See: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/02/us-army-declare-war-on-free-media/
Also from this article:
“Edward Snowden’s revelations over NSA spying at home and abroad failed to touch on how information illegally obtained was being used. Here, for the first time, we see rogue commands within the military itself using such information to target both individuals and organizations to serve an agenda consistent with a police state dictatorship.”
This is a short article but definitely worth the read.
Is there a reason why you keep doing it?
Is there a reason that I owe you an explanation?
wow Thanks Lyra~well worth the read. Encouraging all here to check this article out.
Some of the links around here, this included, are pure shit. It’s almost like you take pride in finding the most obscure, least analytical piece of garbage around.
This whole article hinges upon the following claim:
And their evidence supporting this claim? It doesn’t exist. There isn’t information on what the attacks were and how they tied it to the IP address of a training center, or even the motive of going after such “independent news and media organizations.” The article talks about protecting Israel and news unfavorable to the U.S. yet here I am, reading this shitty article making baseless claims. Makes one wonder.
The rest of the article is moot since it hinges on the above quote which it cannot corroborate. This is the shittiest article of the day for me, thanks Lyra1!!
P.S. the author of this article needs to be banned from starting sentences with “By definition…” He clearly doesn’t know what the fuck that means.
Sorry that you can’t read Nate.
“Computer security teams working with Veterans Today traced a pattern of attacks to Fort Huachuca, headquarters of the US Army Intelligence School.
This base, in the tiny town of Sierra Vista, Arizona, just north of the Mexican border, is home, not only to this spying operation but also to America’s drone program as well. Every drone attack begins there, with “pilots” trained at Fort Huachuca and drones developed and tested there.
The attacks on independent news and media organizations were discovered when a number of websites, not just Veterans Today, began noting unusual traffic patterns and clumsy hacking attempts. Security software traced these attacks to Fort Huachuca and to a number of local police computer systems around the US.”
Maybe the author didn’t want to give everyone access to data pulled from VT and Press TV servers. If you had ever been in the Army; you would realize that the retired Veteran author of this article is more than capable of conducting a counterintelligence program. You would also realize that the Army Signals Intelligence Command is located at Fort Huachuca and that they are responsible for training the NSA operatives. Additionally, it is this Army Command which controls several field NSA units both domestically and abroad.
“The Cyber Warfare specialists of Fort Huachuca, operating well outside the authority of the US Constitution, censor the internet, run “sock puppet” websites spreading propaganda and disinformation, orchestrate smear campaigns against journalists and activists who are not under total control and use electronic countermeasures to silence freedom of speech.”
If you are one of those operatives Nate, I am happy to have wasted your precious time.
Lyra, your burden of proof appears to consist of sketchy claims that you really want to believe instead of cold, hard facts. This shitty little article is utter emptiness. It’s no wonder this article is only getting picked up by other fringe sites and an Iranian website. Credibility means something and this type of baseless reporting earns none of it.
So, returning to your retort, let’s break down what you say:
What type of attacks? How frequently? How many IP addresses? How did it locate the Headquarters of the U.S. Army Intelligence School? What time were the attacks?
Your article doesn’t answer any of this. Hence, it has not proved its claim and as I said before, the rest is moot.
This is irrelevant to the claims.
A number of sites – who else? Unusual traffic patterns? What type of “clumsy hacking attempts”? What security software was used and where are some screenshots of the results? Specifically, where are the local police computer systems? Did this horseshit website reach out to any of these police stations or the Training Academy for comment? {LOL, yeah right}
Lyra, this isn’t evidence you’re looking at. This is the unproven claims of some guy; maybe by echoing what you want to hear it adds more credibility!?
But he isn’t competent enough to back any of his assertions with evidence. Well fuck, if that’s the case, here’s some of my own news for you:
TI Commenter Nate, using security software pulled out of thin air, determined that both Lyra1 and veteransdaily website are hacking my Android phone! Blah Blah security state, blah blah U.S. Gestapo, blah blah police state, totalitarian dictatorship, sheeple, and a bag of chips. I will show none of you evidence, but fuck you, just believe me anyways bruh!!
LOL, didn’t see this coming /s/
Let’s say I was one of those operatives, smearing a journalist or an activist. Why would I be talking to you!? Don’t flatter yourself. You’re not some journalistic heavyweight or an activist, you’re just some schmo like the rest of us posting shit on an Internet forum. Get over yourself!!
@ Nate:
It appears to me that I might have struck your last nerve. You sure are taking this article regarding the NSA’s expanse of trolling activity on sites like The Intercept quite personally aren’t you?
It’s just an article Nate. Calm down.
I had the courtesy not to comment on your completely theoretical epic – “Nate
02 Jul 2014 at 3:08 pm: Revisiting Snowden’s Hong Kong GetawayWSJ ” – as posted above; because of YOUR contentious nature and monumental ego. Let’s just agree to dislike one another OK?
By all means feel free to ignore me.
Lyra, I don’t dislike you personally, I just think your posts are terrible and your links worse. Try not to take offense. And feel free to criticize that WSJ post, you aren’t hurting my feelings.
all of the proof can be easily seen in a web server log, are you an idiot Nate?.Your lack of understand of tech , doesnt discredit the article, and I dont even need to read it, based on what I myself have seen happen and other articles, that have popped up there is no doute this is fact, much of that info has beem published by Greenwald himself right here, the amry of socail media bots has been talked about many years, are you really that in informed?
“Listen to all – follow none”
Considering this authors own admission in this video about the accuracy of what he writes and why, I consider it suspect, at the very least. In the video, he clearly says that 40% of what is written on the veteranstoday.com website is “purposefully/partially false.”
Your mileage may vary.
““But I suppose the most revolutionary act one can engage in is… to tell the truth.”
– Howard Zinn, Marx in Soho: A Play on History
Veterans Today is an alternative media site which predominately geared toward veterans. It has about the same credibility level as any other media site. Gordon Duff is controversial and he is certainly not well liked by many people….particularly those affiliated with Infowars.
I guess that one would have to be a veteran to see that there is really nothing untruthful in this particular article. In fact, the article actually mentions Edward Snowden’s evidence and supports Glenn Greenwald’s Journalism by specifically attacking the Army as part of the DOD; for allowing the Signals Intelligence Command to engage their NSA trainees and operatives in unconstitutional spying and trolling of alternative media sites like The Intercept – which is paid for by the tax dollars of U.S. citizens.
It is always best to listen to weigh all sides of an issue, before formulating an opinion.
” It has about the same credibility level as any other media site.”
With all respect – after reading some of this site’s information, which alleges much but offers little in the way of confirmation; and when combined with the site’s Senior Editor’s admission that 40% of what the site produces is “purposefully/partially false,” I consider these facts to undermine rather than strengthen its credibility level when compared to “any other media site.”
“I guess that one would have to be a veteran to see that there is really nothing untruthful in this particular article.”
No. One would have to be overly trusting and myopic.
Also, marginalizing the audience by pigeon-holing them (“have to be a vet to understand”) is exactly the type of divisive mentality that I was addressing before on this site. Doing this leads not to a more unified understanding of what the truth is, but rather it separates us into “those who know” due simply because of the “group” they are in – and not based on the actual and independently verifiable information that should be available to all of us.
While the specific article cited does contain some accurate information, it also contains the unproven premise (“The United States Army, operating from a secret base in Arizona, has declared war on independent media”) from which additional claims are made that the reader is asked to believe only because the messenger said so – not because the message is verifiable.
Like most here, I enjoy reading from many complementary sources to get the information from which I form my decisions – but frankly, this particular article and the self-admission by the Senior Editor that what is written on the site is, by design, slightly less than half-factual leads me to consider this articles claims with a little less than a grain of salt.
“It is the absence of facts that frightens people: the gap you open, into which they pour their fears, fantasies, desires.”
– Hilary Mantel, Wolf Hall
Silly and I have had our disagreements but this assessment is spot on.
@ Sillyputty:
No problem. Your entitled to your opinion.
“No problem. Your entitled to your opinion.”
Yes, thank you – as are we all. Certainly nothing personal involved. Please keep posting and sharing.
Possibly in regard to some of the prolific trolling that been materializing within the comments section of TI…..
“The Cyber Warfare specialists of Fort Huachuca, operating well outside the authority of the US Constitution, censor the internet, run “sock puppet” websites spreading propaganda and disinformation, orchestrate smear campaigns against journalists and activists who are not under total control and use electronic countermeasures to silence freedom of speech.”
See: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/02/us-army-declare-war-on-free-media/
Another excerpt:
“Edward Snowden’s revelations over NSA spying at home and abroad failed to touch on how information illegally obtained was being used. Here, for the first time, we see rogue commands within the military itself using such information to target both individuals and organizations to serve an agenda consistent with a police state dictatorship.”
Short article but well worth the read.
An <a href="https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/07/flawed-oversight-board-report-endorses-general-warrants"<analysis at EFF of the new PCLOB report on Section 702 surveillance. Worth reading.
Montecarlo
02 Jul 2014 at 9:33 am
An analysis at EFF of the new PCLOB report on Section 702 surveillance. Worth reading (link fixed).
Thanks for posting. This is most certainly worth following.
Also see link in article: https://www.eff.org/cases/jewel
The Ack attack … http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/02/nsa-data-collection-legal-independent-board
“Some NSA data collection is ‘legal and effective’, says independent board
Operations under the so-called ‘702 program’ played a ‘key role in disrupting terror plots’, according to draft report”
[snip]
“Yet the board stopped short of endorsing the NSA’s claim last year that information gleaned under section 702 led to the disruption of 54 terrorist plots. In “approximately 30 cases,” 702 information was the “catalyst” for such disruption, and in another 20, such information aided an existing investigation. Most plots, as the NSA has itself said, occurred overseas; and the PCLOB said the successful disruptions began with “narrowly focused surveillance of a specific individual.””
*Also, I did read where someone sent $800 to Somalia.
This site has taken a very, very long time to come together. The speed at which Glenn Greenwald et al are writing is extremely disappointing. That he actually took time to out write a book before he published a significant amount of information is telling.
Looks very much like we are all being lead up the garden path. And I for one really hope that Cryptome really will publish it all. This is getting ridiculous.
Wonderful. Blackmail or is it Beyond Blackmail. Better than bombs. Blackmail the leaders of nations. The weak spot. Win without firing a shot. The Art Of War.
I miss the old, prolific Greenwald (and Scahill, Taibbi, etc…) I used to read.
I remember them as being basically opinion riffs on a limited number of international- and drone- (and hypocrisy of) related topics one could easily read from outside the U.S.
Of course you do, how precious.
Scahill may have been droned. Not sure if Taibbi is still alive either.
Taibbi is alive well and writing some of his best work.
By the “crank-like” (owen jones), Mother Agnes Mariam?!?!
http://notthemsmdotcom.wordpress.com/2013/11/17/owen-jones-mother-agnes-a-lesson-in-conciliatory-leftists/
Book 2 of the Snowden files should be even more interesting than the first. Hopefully Glen has already started writing it.
Bad news from Barret Brown.
http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2014/07/01/the-barrett-brown-review-of-arts-and-letters-and-jail-a-visit-to-the-hole/
[“Hours before violence resumed in Eastern Ukraine”] Air Force Gen. Philip M. Breedlove, the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO’s Allied Command Operations, announced Monday the United States will send troops “to help respond to Russian aggression in Ukraine,” according to McClatchy.
infowars.com/u-s-nato-general-calls-for-troops-in-ukraine/
If you’ve never seen NATO headquarters before, it’s impressive:
https://www.google.com/search?q=nato+headquarters&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=qVyzU_vfE5TboATh9YHwBA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1313&bih=753&dpr=0.95#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=Lumv_BCJl8wHUM%253A%3BAfJ23H87uLaxoM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.som.com%252FFILE%252F14563%252Fnato_1400x800_plan_01jpg.jpg%253Fh%253D800%2526s%253D17%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.som.com%252Fprojects%252Fnato_headquarters%3B1400%3B800
Breedlove;Now that’s a funny name for a warrior.Wish he lived up to it.
You’ve heard of the Silly Comment Generator, and the Postmodern Essay Generator. Now (h/t Joemygod) the Create Your Own Gay Marriage Ruling generator.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/07/01/create_your_own_gay_marriage_ruling.html
Crunchy frog is extra.
coram, did you see this? I almost mentioned something similar yesterday when reading the decision, but it got away from me.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/06/30/the_hobby_lobby_ruling_is_good_for_gays_and_doesn_t_allow_discrimination.html
Also, I must voice disagreement with the notion being spread that the ruling undermines women’s rights. Those promoting that idea are not taking into account that HHS provides the birth control that the employer may withhold due to religious prohibitions. Thus, the outcome is a win/win and with the stipulation RFRA cannot be used as a shield for discrimination in hiring, it’s a win/win/win.
I saw it. However, it’s somewhat wishful thinking. Alito did say that the ruling didn’t preclude employment discrimination on the basis of race. 18 USC §2000e (that is to say, Title VII) gets cited a lot. However, racial discrimination, like infringement on enumerated rights like religious belief, face the same strict-scrutiny test.
Other forms of discrimination, gender, say, or sexual orientation, do not. Intermediate scrutiny or this new “enhanced” scrutiny, maybe, but those are lower levels. Hobby Lobby leaves open a future employer claiming that local or state laws on employment discrimination, or perhaps on maternity leave or spousal benefits, substantially burden their free exercise of religion.
Alito also talked a lot about vaccination and stuff, but there’s a compelling gov’t interest in preventing epidemics that does meet strict scrutiny. But his caveats are interesting on what they leave unmentioned.
I would think that SCOTUS will find for gender and sexual orientation protections. They are constitutional and the states may not flout the constitution.
Regarding maternity leave – you’d think those who value motherhood would support it, no?
As for vaccinations, I don’t believe in mandates when it comes to Pharma product. First of all, Pharma lies and misrepresents effectiveness of their concoctions. Secondly, Pharma has not been required to provide Prescribing Information and though it is available online, few people search it out due to the fact that doctors regard the products as safe, even free of side effects, and every year at flu season’s start medical professionals can be found on tv hawking products and lying through their teeth about safety and effectiveness. Were the information freely given to individuals I believe they would be more capable of making informed choices, and not be swept up in the herd mentality so prized by the corporatocracy.
Did you know that the Cochrane Collaboration, in reviewing all available data regarding effective of flu vaccines in healthy adults, found it requires 46 people must be jabbed in order to prevent one case of influenza. Not very cost effective, and some may decide that such a rate of effectiveness does not warrant the risk of serious side effects. We’d all be better off increasing our Vitamin D3 levels (found to be alarmingly low in the US population) to prevent susceptibility to cold or flu virus, and to significantly shorten the disease process if one does catch the bug du jour.
http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD001269/vaccines-to-prevent-influenza-in-healthy-adults
Also, coram, for a refreshingly honest look at the sorts of self-serving manipulations of scientific data that reeks throughout the pharmaceutical industry, one should not miss the heights of perceptiveness, intelligence, and political awareness demonstrated by Beatrice Golomb, MD, a member of TNS, in videos recording The Science Network’s Candle in the Dark series.
Listen to #38 first, then #43. You’ll be amazed at the corruption of science she reveals.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=+Beatrice+Golomb+This+is+Your+Brain+on+Politics
SCOTUS so far has only found a rational basis, perhaps enhanced, forbidding discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Rational basis is the lowest level, behind intermediate scrutiny, behind strict scrutiny. Religious faith is covered by strict scrutiny, so if a corporation decides that its religion is substantially burdened by a state antidiscrimination ordinance, it might very well prevail.
That depends on whether the employer’s religion says that a woman’s place is in the home, not the workplace. We can also re-examine Genesis 3:19 as to how the maternity proceeds.
We’re not talking about mandating that patients have vaccines. Hobby Lobby was about whether a business could delete contraception or contraceptive products (the kind, say, that treat menstrual cramps) from an employee’s health plan, which ACA provides for and for which she’s already paying premiums. Vaccines might also be something the employer might not believe in. And the costs can add up: I find now that an IUD might cost a minimum-wager worker a month’s wages, if removed from coverage.
Vaccines may or may not be effective, but that’s the patient’s decision, I would think. Not an employer that doesn’t know jack about medicine. And just wait till the Notre Dame or Little Sisters of the Poor cases get to the Supremes and argue Hobby Lobby claims — some of these nonprofits operate hospitals or medical charities.
It shouldn’t be about the organization but about their employees, customers and patients, but Hobby Lobby seems to say that the organization’s faith should control. It doesn’t augur well for the future.
Oops, I meant Genesis 3:16 on pain and childbirth. Genesis 3:19 is an argument against paying a living wage.
“It shouldn’t be about the organization but about their employees, customers and patients, but Hobby Lobby seems to say that the organization’s faith should control. It doesn’t augur well for the future.”
Nice summation.
Erratum: meant to say 42 USC 2000e. BTW, it turns out the Hobby Lobby decision applies to all forms of contraception, not the few that Alito talked about. SCOTUS clarified this yesterday.
http://news.yahoo.com/justices-act-other-health-law-mandate-cases-133633160–politics.html
Given the Notre Dame and other nonprofit organization cases working their way up through the courts, this doesn’t augur well, esp. for patients and clients of nonprofit charities or hospitals.
Wow! I’ll be certain to look at that later. Thank you coram. Must run!
coram, you’d said earlier
which is why I included info on influenza vaccine effectiveness and the govt’s interest that could justify mandates. Much scientific evidence is a matter of interpretation, and the bias of the interpreter will muddy the interpretation. In the case of Pharma, the bias is generated by profits concerns, and its lobbying the govt thus manufactures false rationales for govt mandates that are ultimately based in flimsy science.
If govt is going to mandate I perform some act that is required to promote the public good, I would like that mandate to be based in objective, truth-seeking science. I believe I am not alone and that you too, if you knew the corruption that passes for their science, would join me in this particular criticism regarding Pharma.
But that aside – I imagine were a closely held company’s owners invited to demonstrate how they had personally rejected pain control during labor, or interventions to save the baby’s life, they’d be hard pressed to prove it, and to prove it is widely practiced in their group of owners, or their church, could be difficult. But if they do prove it satisfactorily, HHS would have to cover what benefits their company doesn’t. As I said the other day, I don’t agree with their objections to birth control methods of any kind, but I do uphold their rights to conscience.
The right of a war protestor to not be compelled to engage in killing is a right of conscience. The pacifist’s right to conscience must be respected not simply because I agree with his cause, his objective, but because should I hold his right sacrosanct and then permit the powers to do away with the right to conscience of another with whom I cannot agree, then I have by default abandoned my own right to conscience by permitting myself the indulgence of gross ignorance.
I believe the reason for this is that it simplifies the administration by the insurer of the favorable ruling. Imagine the confusion and turmoil caused by some methods being covered and some not. It would affect calculation of premiums, copays, and possibly require adjustments in costs for male and sterile female employees and child- bearing-age females. It would be a nightmare of expensive accounting hours in order to account for pennies. And considering that all FDA approved birth control methods are covered by HHS when the employer is not required to provide birth control, it follows that applying the decision to all methods is the simplest way to go all around.
In those other examples you mention – I suppose yes there’s the possibility cases will be brought that try men’s and women’s souls. It’s going to be very interesting to see what shakes out of this bag of tricks but I dare say there’ll be a whole lotto interestin’ shakin’ goin’ on.
Greenwald’s Fireworks Finale Postponed. http://wp.me/p1o8M1-2kN
LMFAO.
http://ohtarzie.wordpress.com/2014/07/01/greenwalds-fireworks-finale-postponed/
This strikes me as fitting epigraph for today’s diverted article.
Nein says: Another beautiful day for the medium. Another existential crisis for the message.
https://twitter.com/NeinQuarterly/status/483964308981035008
More reflections by the Rude Pundit on the Hobby Lobby case, published today.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/07/religious-liberty-wins-but-only-if.html
True enough. It seems that corporations aren’t only persons, but people of faith, and have a free exercise of religion. Presumably that includes corporations like Blackwater (or whatever their /dba/ is these days). Think about that one, kiddies.
That’s scary. I’m afraid Devil Worship might just be a protected religion these days. >:)
Shorter Corey Robin- “It’s the Feudalism, Stupid”
http://coreyrobin.com/2014/06/30/why-go-after-women-and-workers-the-reactionary-mind-explains-it-all-for-you/
Anybody quoting Robin loses credibility immediately. He’s a libertarian trying to pass himself off as some kind of faux-Marxist. Yeah, I know he thinks he looks cool in his overcoat posing for his book covers, but yeesh, he sides with Greenback$ more often than not.
Anybody who thinks an author who laments the weakening of a comprehensive health insurance law mandate is a libertarian is Put Stars By It.
Well… If a given mercenary force is a “closely-held” corporation, and claims Satanism as a valid organized religion (black ops and torture routinely practiced for monetary gain), and do not discriminate racially in their hiring practices; it appears to me that they qualify to evade the mandated insurance provision of the Affordable Care Act to provide certain types of birth control to their female employees. However; the religion of “Satanism” must, by documented creed, specify that all satanic soul energy transfers at the point of “conception”, and no abortive measures can be used under any circumstances.
Or….perhaps the SCOTUS does not recognize Satanism as a valid religion????
Hot damn! More corporate gain at the expense of individuals. Meanwhile, the rich get rich and the poor get poorer.
Rudy thinks it’s the Evangelical religion and all that shibboleth that Hobby Lobby would benefit. And what makes you think Blackwater worships Satan? Cthulhu might have a claim on them.
Your right. It really could be any organized religion that the SCOTUS recognizes as valid. Although, Cthulha, would represent a categorical challenge to them. Would that be Mythical (Agnostic), Alien (Agnostic or Pagan), Pagan or Wiccan? Something which could fall in the Agnostic catagory would probably be thrown out. Aliens could be classified as gods but that falls somewhere between Agnostic and Pagan. Best bet for your hypothetical Blackwater would be Paganism as Wiccan would have all of the Justices making the Sign of the Cross during the hearing. Although….something similar to Pentecostal Evangelicals speaking in multiple tongues might have the same effect.
I’m sure that the U.S. Justice system can handle this.
Yes, but what about companies adhering to the Flying Spaghetti Monster? The Boiardi and Raw Goo heresies are competing subsets, and there’s the matter of semolinarians.
1. European Union, 2. North American Union, 3. Asia-Pacific Union.
“Trilateral” means what it says.
_“ ‘After America Comes North America,’ Gen. Petraeus Boasts“_
“Former general and CIA chief David Petraeus (shown), a key figure in the globalist Council on Foreign Relations and the shadowy Bilderberg network, boasted at a recent conference that the United States of America is set to be merged into the continental regime being erected under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). Speaking at the Margaret Thatcher Conference on Liberty last week in London, the ex-commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan and Iraq essentially celebrated the end of U.S. independence — and by extension, the demise of the Constitution.
” ‘After America comes North America,’ Petraeus said confidently in answering the question about what comes after the United States, the theme of the panel discussion. ‘Are we on the threshold of the North American decade, question mark? I threw that away — threw away the question mark — and boldly proclaimed the coming North American decade, says the title now.’ He also boasted about how the three economies have been put ‘together’ over the last 20 years as part of the ‘implementation’ of the North American Free Trade Act.”
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/north-america/item/18585-after-america-comes-north-america-gen-petraeus-boasts
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/01/medical-staff-warned-keep-quiet-about-illegal-immigrants-or-face-arrest/
From DREAMland:
“A government-contracted security force threatened to arrest doctors and nurses if they divulged any information about the contagion threat at a refugee camp housing illegal alien children at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas, sources say.
“In spite of the threat, several former camp workers broke their confidentiality agreements and shared exclusive details with me about the dangerous conditions at the camp. They said taxpayers deserve to know about the contagious diseases and the risks the children pose to Americans. I have agreed to not to disclose their identities because they fear retaliation and prosecution.
“My sources say Americans should be very concerned about the secrecy of the government camps.
” ‘There were several of us who wanted to talk about the camps, but the agents made it clear we would be arrested,’ a psychiatric counselor told me. ‘We were under orders not to say anything.’
“The sources said workers were guarded by a security force from the Baptist Family & Children’s Services, which the Department of Health and Human Services hired to run the Lackland Camp.
“The sources say security forces called themselves the ‘Brown Shirts.’ “
Baptist Family & Children’s Services as a gov’t contractor. After the Hobby Lobby ruling, that makes it really problematic. And they’re hiring “brown shirts”?
Greenwald, Poitras, MacAkskil speaking for themselves.
If you’re tiring of reading people who are pretending to speak for and about Greenwald, Poitras and team this video — with full transcript — that took place in April gives you an opportunity to listen to them speak for themselves.
LOL @ Banjo. You pretend to speak for him all the time. You’re only rivaled by your Neonazi pal Mona.
Fuk’ Stars by it..
Feb/2008 – [senate floor]
“Glenn Greenwald expressed the high stakes this way, Mr President, and I quote him.. ‘The Bush administration will be gone in 11 monthes. But in the absence of some meaningful accountability, all of this (FISA) will remain. If these theories remain undisturbed and unchallenged, and all of these crimes go uninvestigated and unpunished, that will have a profound impact on changing our national character, and further transform the type of country we are..'”
Sen. Chris Todd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAdj9aACgmM
Sorry, why are we supposed to “respect” Greenback$ or kiss his ass ? Because some assclown capitalist bourgeois imperialist senator quotes him? If anything, you just proved to my point – Greenback$ is a mainstream mouthpiece who is no danger to entrenched power since they are fucking quoting him.
For fuck sake, do you even hear yourself. Those who fuck with power don’t go on “Morning Joe” or work for oligarch billionnaires. Their books don’t make bestseller lists and their bosses don’t have revolving door access at the White House. They also don’t work with libertarian capitalist conformist whistleblowers who say they “don’t want to hurt the government only help it” and that all documents are being released in conjunction with government stakeholders.
What part of conformist mouthpieces for power don’t you understand? Snowjob and Greenback$ conform and comply. Their compliance is what is making them celebrities.
You should be embarrassed quoting capitalist whores like Chris Todd. What a tool you are.
Nothing else worth bothering with in your gymnastics lesson so I’m just pointing out that you don’t even know the name of the “capitalist whore” that you’re using for your diatribe.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/01/report-obamacare-data-problems-affecting-millions/
Hahaha.
This is funny too: from yesterday’s analysis and reflections by the Rude Pundit:
Some of us tried to warn the Democrats about wimping out with Hillarycare or Obamacare, with all their convolutions instead of going for broke. And “broke” is what we got. Big diff between compromise and being compromised, and they never got it.
Democrats are progressive leftist thugs, and are going to protect product and services that mean big money that can be attached to taxpayers.
That its mind-controlled political adherents didn’t look at a rich 100-year history of that when idiotically believing they could have a seat at their party chairmens’ tables is one of the mysteries of the progressive psyche.
Well, Alito said that because that is exactly how the employees of non-profits whose principals have religious objections to some or all methods of birth control are treated by HHS. HHS supplies those employees with birth control of their choice at the govt’s expense. HHS came up with that plan, but failed to make mention of it in its argument to the Court. Rude Pundit needs to update his knowledge base, pronto.
On a side note, coram, wrt government controlled and supplied health care. Those damned corporations that take government handouts with one hand, and shaft patients with the other, will still be ripping off us tax & premium payers, gouging out our substance and enriching themselves with gusto in the process. It’s a win/win for them and a never win for us.
I have no doubt you’re aware of the Medical catastrophe that has deprived very sick, very poor people of adequate, let alone minimal, health care in our/your Republic of California. How? By making doctor participation voluntary (as it should be). But the pay is so low, the best doctors are not enticed to sign up, leaving a huge gap for many people who have no other options. This is particularly true of specialists and doctors who treat rare and orphan diseases.
Wasn’t ACA supposed to solve problems like those?
Charity-missioned hospitals disappeared when it became clear that new ownership could wring bigger dollars from ACA.
That charity theme–which comprised most of health care before Kennedy thought it would be cute in 1973 enable willing employers to meet every need no matter how specious–is what in large measure had kept costs low.
It is not the entire story though. Yes, it contributed to costs rises, but corporate greed, the greed of the 1% to 3%, the decline of selfless charity in favor of self-serving charity, and the built-in inflation that accompanies the debt-based money creation scheme, all contributed. Kennedy was merely the bearer of the message. And nearly all involved in healthcare, including patients, went along willingly for the ride.
You’d think that if they take gov’t money, they accept any terms, conditions and regulations that come with it. You’d think.
I’m sorry, is Hobby Lobby taking government money?
You’d think. But I guess that they don’t, shows us who’s boss. ;)
Here’s a drawing* that explains all. Notice on the far wall, the People’s Entrance is closed.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/The_Bosses_of_the_Senate_by_Joseph_Keppler.jpg
*h/t BenjaminAP
It sounds intellectual. Good luck with all your People’s stuff; all prior attempts since 1848 weren’t truly People’s. You and Put Stars by It go crazy with that.
The People’s Temple came close.
clarification:
“the Medical catastrophe” by this I meant to refer to California’s Medicaid program known as MediCal. The MediCal catastrophe.
http://www.infowars.com/facebook-emotional-experiment-linked-to-pentagon-research-on-civil-unrest/
He’ll provide the reveal after he’s cleared it with the USG.
Since Glenn is supposedly deferential to the USG?
What planet do you live on!? If you were to put Glenn on a spectrum ranging from “government shill” to “government cynic,” Glenn is MUCH closer to the latter.
Greenback$: “The NSA is necessary and has the right to spy on our enemies including Qaeda.”
Greenback$: “I do exactly what Snowden wants, he’s my source!!!”
Snowjob: “I want to help the government, not hurt it.”
Snowjob: “The documents are being released in cooperation with government stakeholders.”
So your concept of “cynic” really carries no weight. Sorry.
He already had his ass handed to him on the Afghan naming incident. Now he’s gone coward again, backing down to the USG and probably in conference with them.
Sorry, your daddy doesn’t speak for me.
Those quotes are irrelevant to your own point, but don’t let that deter you from smashing away at your keyboard with nonsense.
Anybody out there that has followed the leaks and has a half-functioning brain stem can see that Glenn does not bow down to government requests to conceal and prevent the release information. The only people who make this type of claim are Wikileaks, which has nothing to lose and everything to gain, and whiny brats like you who don’t have any accountability or responsibility for tough publishing decisions and get to play White Knight from the comfort of your Cheez-It stained armchair. You are not only disconnected from reality but have the luxury of not having to deal with any of the risks or consequences for your actions.
Says you, using the amazing power of HINDSIGHT! What a joke for you to make such an argument in retrospect. After all, this is the same Afghanistan that raged into a violence frenzy when the US accidentally burned Korans. Hop off your fucking high horese, Glenn had to make a tough choice and made it. It’s one of the few things he’s done that I agreed with. Also, funny how you ignore the fact that Glenn revealed all the other 4 countries on that list whereas the WP did not. Maybe he saw some value and legitimacy on increased surveillance efforts in a country where we have troops engaged in combat.
And if he reveals it tomorrow or next week, then what? He’s a coward because he took another week to assess what could be credible claims? I cannot stand Greenwald most the time, but I’d take his judgment any day of the week over your tough-talking, proudly ignorant, and bloviating ass
“Cheez-It stained armchair”~oh god that quote made my day!
Leaving your disingenuous BS and concern trolling aside, I do think there’s some urgency in publishing that article. If I were to guess the US government’s next move, it would be to give the story to one of their journalists, and thus take some of the wind out of the scoop.
Do you seriously believe this is going to be earth-shattering shit that rocks everybody’s world and causes revolutionary upheaval? Really, the dramatics Greenback$ uses makes you all just keep yapping louder and following him around like he’s the Pied Piper. You do realize how ridiculous you look right. The hardcore Greenback$ bots like Kitt and Mona are the worst, but the rest of you look pretty bad too.
How many times does this guy have to lie to you for you to stop treating him like he’s the master of the universe? He’s a grifter and a political opportunist. HIs allegiance is to $$ and his own celebrity. His trajectory of writing indicates this.
In a world of actual adults, Greenback$ would be a public laughingstock and forced out of public writing. He’s a capitalist imperialist, a grifter, and a political opportunist. All thanks to his adoring and unquestioning cult followers.
The fact that the US government scrambled at the last minute to stop the publication of a scoop that’s been 3 months in the works is a good indication of how significant it will be. Folks, if it turns out to be significant, let’s all point and laugh whenever “Put Stars by it” shows up.
Most of the yapping seems to be coming from you
Noam Chomsky at TomDispatch today: “America’s Real Foreign Policy.”
*Whose Security? How Washington Protects Itself and the Corporate Sector*
“There is much more to say, but the historical record demonstrates very clearly that the standard doctrine has little merit. Security in the normal sense is not a prominent factor in policy formation. To repeat, in the normal sense. But in evaluating the standard doctrine we have to ask what is actually meant by ‘security': security for whom? One answer is: security for state power. There are many illustrations. Take a current one. In May, the U.S. agreed to support a U.N. Security Council resolution calling on the International Criminal Court to investigate war crimes in Syria, but with a proviso: there could be no inquiry into possible war crimes by Israel. Or by Washington, though it was really unnecessary to add that last condition. The U.S. is uniquely self-immunized from the international legal system. In fact, there is even congressional legislation authorizing the president to use armed force to ‘rescue’ any American brought to the Hague for trial — the ‘Netherlands Invasion Act,’ as it is sometimes called in Europe. That once again illustrates the importance of protecting the security of state power.”
More here:
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175863/tomgram%3A_noam_chomsky%2C_america%27s_real_foreign_policy/
A topical musical interlude.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPnLPhbhkeQ
Conor Friedersdorf reports on the debate between the ACLU and NSA defenders, which had interesting results:
“Is the NSA keeping us safe? That was the question that MSNBC used to frame a debate Monday at the Aspen Ideas Festival, which The Atlantic co-hosts with The Aspen Institute. The debate featured Keith Alexander, former head of the National Security Agency; former Congresswoman Jane Harman; and former solicitor general Neal Katyal spoke in defense of the signals intelligence agency. Anthony Romero of the ACLU, academic Jeffrey Rosen and former Congressman Mickey Edwards acknowledged the need for the NSA, but argued that it transgresses against our rights with unnecessary programs that violate the Constitution. The two teams also spent time arguing about Edward Snowden and whether his leaks were justified. By the end of the 90 minute session the civil libertarian team handily beat the national security state team in audience voting… In addition to choosing the civil liberties team as the winners by debate’s end, roughly three-fourths of the audience said that protecting privacy was more important than keeping safe from terrorism. When MSNBC showed partisan and gender breakdowns, Republicans and women were likelier to side with the NSA. Men and independents were very likely to side against the NSA.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/07/former-nsa-chief-clashes-with-aclu-head-in-debate/373791/
This is an argument that I’ve seen around here and have attempted to refute. It uses Snowden’s theft of records to call into question whether the NSA has adequate controls to protect against the abuse of our metadata, currently in government control.
I think it’s a good point to try to score points in a debate but is actually misleading because it conflates internal information security procedures with whatever process governs the protection of metadata. It would be like me auditing a large company and saying “because Joe in accounts receivable stole cash, how do I know I can trust your payroll information!” There’s simply not a direct relationship between the processes. In a way, it is also conveying the Snowden instance, which is clearly an exception, as the general rule.
It’s a weak argument because it relies on your audience knowing nothing about information security and internal control processes.
I don’t care for that argument either. For one thing, it makes the oxymoronically named Intelligence Community even more determined to be oppressively secret, hidden and protected from real scrutiny and possible whistleblowing. Which will mean another Snowden is less likely, whatever they’re doing, and we’ll have no chance of knowing. I see your point, also.
There are better ways to make that argument. For example, all or nearly all the known instances of LOVEINT were discovered via self-reports.
” It uses Snowden’s theft of records to call into question whether the NSA has adequate controls to protect against the abuse of our metadata”
Wrong. No where in the argument or its variations is it argued that the NSA doesn’t have adequate controls on “our metadata”. The argument is one the actual data… the content, not meta data. So you are wrong on that point.
Secondly, it actually is important to the discussion, because Snowden was a contractor for a defense contractor. Given the increase in TSSCI clearances granted around the beltway and worldwide to defense contractors, it should be obvious that the main source of concern is a lack of controls and oversight on contractors. Snowden is on record saying that the controls were so horrible that anyone at all could have just walked in and done the same thing he did. That means the contractors themselves are failing to protect the data, and therefore that the three letters are failing to correctly oversee those operations.
The entire rest of your argument rests upon a strawman that you setup at the first about metadata, which doesn’t apply. Metadata isn’t relevant here. Snowden gained access to actual data and content, and probably could have gotten more if he had so chosen.
So, your post is both logically flawed, and argumentatively lacking. There is plenty of room for criticism of Snowden or Greenwald, especially given new circumstances, without having to resort to convoluted logical fallacies. Please elevate the level of discourse, don’t reduce it.
According to what Snowden said in the Poitras video, and has said multiple times since then, he isn’t an exception as far as what can be done by people who are and were in his position. He is an exception in that he successfully carried out what he did. But he has stated how easy it is for thousands of people to view and download the information that he viewed and downloaded.
Here are some fun facts WRT the Hobby Lobby decision. While the case is limited, for now, to closely-held companies, these constitute perhaps 90% of all US businesses, with perhaps 52% of the workforce. (The article definitions tally with what I remember of this part of corporations law).
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/06/30/hobby_lobby_supreme_court_ruling_how_many_people_work_at_closely_held_corporations.html
In God we trust, says the money, but the devil is to pay.
Good.
It’ll certainly be a boon for employment attorneys and such, since there’s now plenty of potential for litigation.
They could use the work.
http://abovethelaw.com/2013/10/this-pretty-much-sums-up-the-plight-of-the-unemployed-lawyer/
Yup…..As you implied yesterday. Many potential problems with this ruling.
Instead of working to meet the situation, they are still employing the best law brains to serve greed and sel?sh interest.
“People can only stand so much, and one of these days there will be a settlement. We shall have one receivership too many, one unnecessary depression out of which we will not come with the power still in the same old hands. I believe this country would be better off if we did not have sixty percent of the assets of all insurance companies concentrated in four companies.
– Harry S Truman, to the US Senate, Dec. 1937″
Agree.
Rudy, today:
As long as Glenn is in the US they can hold the threat of arrest over his head for publishing even if they don’t make a threat
but only “claims”.
In other words they want self- imposed
exile as punishment.
God, the Greenback bots will do anything to cover for their boy.
Is he “fearless and adversarial” or is he not? He’s more like “cowardly and quaking.”
Says one who winces at the thought of getting his ass kicked in a fist fight.
I’m a she, and it doesn’t matter what I’m “afraid” of, we’re talking about Greenback$ and his compliance with the USG. He also doesn’t even bother reporting on what the USG “claims” to have. So there’s the transparency issue.
We just have to rely on daddy, daddy knows best. Ugh. What are you, 5 years old? He’s a laughingstock and you folks keep him swaddled in diapers while he turns around and treats you like children. We don’t need to know! Greenback$ decides what to report! Reporting at midnight! No wait sorry! Not reporting, going back on my word and not telling you why or the details!
Thanks for your concern. I’m sure it is as genuine as the repetitive vomit that issues forth from your pie-hole.
re: ‘Shysterville’
Federal Court Declares No-fly List Unconstitutional
The ACLU reports:
[snip]
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/18601-federal-court-declares-no-fly-list-unconstitutional
*capitalized emphasis, mine
ht`lyra
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/07/01/no-fly-list-appeals-system-declared-unconstitutional-no-fly-is-no-fair/
suave,
Because you go to thenewamerican links all the time, rather than to infowars.com, which directly linked to the article you now present.
It’s a good idea to support media that lets you find that lesser linked info by attesting it far and wide.
infowars links to The New American article on the no-fly list, written in-house by its own reporter, Joe Wolverton II. Why not link to the original? Any reason that isn’t simply arbitrary orneriness on your part?
BTW debbie, whatever elements of conservatism are interesting and attractive to liberals (used in the high meaning of the term), you certainly have a knack for distorting them to such degree that they appear most unappealing. Why do it? Has your hatred warped you into a despicable person? How Christian is that? How Conservative?
I explained exactly why I didn’t link to the original. Sometimes I do link to the original, but I detect suave almost never, if not never, links to Infowars.
I’ve come to comments not to mince words. I don’t subscribe to the conceit by some here that right wing conservatism and progressive leftism are mere trash talk rather than effective shorthand that describes unique, polar mindsets–much of it learned, and often reinforced by insidious acclimatization to infantilizing from authoritarians to which they want to hand over responsibility for their lives in exchange for baby food. I believe it’s necessary to rattle the air a little and remind some that they’ve been mind controlled by their peer participation over time to accept ideas that simply don’t make any sense.
And that bothers you – why? Why should it? Why make it your business?
Easy–because along with DrudgeReport, Infowars is on the leading edge of authentic news media, and needs to be promoted to a wider audience that claims it’s looking for that.
Commentators who already use it and don’t share with readers their occasional reliance on it out of misplaced bashfulness don’t earn my respect.
Debbie, infowars is a news aggregator. Of the small percentage of original work they do, a portion is rife with enough error to discredit the balance of their work.
Twenty plus years ago it was a different story. AJ’s work was genuine enough, and he was a strong voice for reconciliation among groups with seemingly opposite views. His call to unite against govt hypocrisy and criminality was sincere. But since that time, he’s been threatened as has his family. He’s cooled his jets and the errors he makes (if that’s what they truly are) are sufficient to discredit his regaining his broader audience of twenty odd years ago.
They’re no more error prone than anyone else. So you tell the board what’s bothering you about their original reporting (which is only more voluminous with each passing year as its staff is increased).
You’re spreading disinfo.
“You’re spreading disinfo.”
I doubt you’d even heard of AJ 20 to 23 years ago.
`
Here’s the actual ruling, courtesy of The Oregonian.
http://media.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/other/NoFlyOpinion.pdf
@ suave:
Read that earlier today.
“This is the first time that a federal court has ruled that the government’s mandated procedure for appealing inclusion on the no-fly list is unconstitutional.”
@ debbie:
For your information: Joe A. Wolverton, II, J.D. is a correspondent for The New American and travels nationwide speaking on nullification, the Second Amendment, the surveillance state, and other constitutional issues. Follow him on Twitter @TNAJoeWolverton and he can be reached at jwolverton@thenewamerican.com.
See my replies to seer above.
Noticed this over at ProPublica. Seems that any agency — IRS, FBI, sheriff’s and police departments — can snoop on electronic communications without bothering to get a warrant.
http://www.propublica.org/special/no-warrant-no-problem-how-the-government-can-still-get-your-digital-data
Midnight at the intercept
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwJKCSOX_AY&feature=kp
Apologises to David Nichtern)
Midnight at the intercept
Put your article to bed
Shadow Governing our faces
Traces of menace in our heads
NSA holdin’ a half-writ
A warrant just for us
Let’s slip off to a FISA goon, real soon
And kick up a little dust
Come on, Scotus is our friend
They’ll point out the way
Come on, ’til the circuit’ ends
‘Til the circuit ends
You don’t have to answer
There’s no need to speak
I’ll be your legal dancer, prancer
And you can be my sneak
I know your Omidyar’s a sultan
An Oligarch known to all
With fifty companies to attend him, they all send him
and Jump at his beck and call
But you won’t need no coram, Glenn
When I’m by your side
And you won’t fear no writ, no no
When you take it in your stride
Come on, Scotus is our friend
They’ll point out the way
Come on, ’til the circuit’ ends
‘Til the circuit ends
Midnight at the intercept
Put your article to bed
Shadow Governing our faces
Traces of menace in our heads
Oh, come on.
Stick to your day job.
I wish Glenn would and just publish.
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/07/01-4
Takes a lot to intimidate Glenn. VBFD, I deem.
Uh, since this isn’t a restricted 140 character forum, what does VBFD mean…in long hand?
very big freaking deal
I think this episode shows how cowardly he is, and how this entire Snowjob spectacle is nothing but a sideshow with Greenbacks as the carnival barker. Sleazy doesn’t begin to describe it. But backing down when he claims to be “fearless and adversarial” and pointing fingers at everybody else telling us all how “un-radical” we are and how “courageous” he is now makes him look even worse, if such a thing is possible.
He’s no good to anybody as bugsplat.
Patience is a virtue, quit acting like a baby, he’ll provide the reveal after he’s properly vetted everything.
Who’s your daddy?
That was fantastic!!!! Good job!!
This is the second time that I have posted Bart Gellman’s article released yesterday at 1507 EST.
I suspect that this was to be a companion piece for Mr. Greenwald’s article, or possibly a watered-down version of his article. Anyway, here it is again:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/court-gave-nsa-broad-leeway-in-surveillance-documents-show/2014/06/30/32b872ec-fae4-11e3-8176-f2c941cf35f1_story.html
Here is a follow-up piece on that same article that points out the significance of Snowden’s evidence in relation to the FISA court.
“There is an aspect of the Post’s latest Snowden disclosure that is being overlooked or dismissed by most mainstream news outlets: namely, that the FISA Court has determined that Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act grants the NSA power to cast this massive international surveillance dragnet.
Of course, most people are not surprised to learn that the NSA is spying on nearly every country in the world. That’s not the point, though.
For over a year now, various representatives of the federal surveillance apparatus have sworn that Section 702 contained certificates of surveillance in only three distinct areas: counterterrorism, counterproliferation, and cybersecurity. As of Monday’s revelations, however, we now know that these officials have been lying.”
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/18602-nsa-claims-massive-new-surveillance-powers-snowden-docs-reveal
A follow-up piece on Gellman’s which does some analysis regarding the significance.
” For over a year now, various representatives of the federal surveillance apparatus have sworn that Section 702 contained certificates of surveillance in only three distinct areas: counterterrorism, counterproliferation, and cybersecurity. As of Monday’s revelations, however, we now know that these officials have been lying.
And the path of prevarication leads all the way to the White House. Last December, the President’s Review Group on Intelligence and Communications Technologies listed only the three certificates cited above, notably omitting any mention of the 193-country collection of communications.”
Link here: http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/18602-nsa-claims-massive-new-surveillance-powers-snowden-docs-reveal
I wonder about the timing. Operation Iraqi Freedom II seems to be getting under way, and Operation Bonaparte Victory II is moving forward in eastern Ukraine, so I wonder if this gag order is to stop two perfectly good wars from getting derailed.
@ coram nobis:
My thought exactly. There is also an escalating in issue in Israel.
Great link! Thanks, Lyra1.
https://twitter.com/Cryptomeorg/status/483585408832249856
So, what time does the war start? And where? #startpopcorn
.
Imagine having to go to infowars to find out what is happening?
.
http://www.infowars.com/government-stops-glenn-greenwald-from-publishing-his-big-snowden-revelation/
.
Government Stops Glenn Greenwald from Publishing His Big Snowden Revelation
But Others Will Release ALL of the Snowden Documents to Prevent a War
How did they “stop” Greenbacks? He could have published the story, but he got cold feet because he’s really not, you know, fearless or adversarial. He’s a suck-up to power.
Do you get paid by the amount of stupid you generate on this site? This is a serious question. Did you get snubbed by a boy who looks something like Glenn Greenwald when you were young? This also is a serious question. Did you get scooped by Glenn Greenwald on a story? Did he make you look like a lapdog in front of your co-workers? Did you stop breast feeding at two days? Are you really as much of a moron as you appear to be on these pages? Those last few were less than serious questions more in tune with your verbal effluent. You are trying very hard to get back to those grade school days when petty and stupid insults ruled the day. I think you have succeeded. Please just go full baby-shit-crazy and raise the level of your discourse by talking about Glenn Greenwald’s mother.
Did Glenn Greenwald clean your clock in a high school debate? Have you ever been jailed or treated for stalking behavior? Do you have fetal-alcohol syndrome?
Is your real name Jeff Toobin? or… one of the many other media tools who have had their asses handed to them by Glenn Greenwald?
Glennbot – can you even answer my question? How did they stop him? He could have published and he didn’t. He’s a coward.
It appears you were all too ready to answer your own stupid false premise question…. which you did. You are having a conversation with yourself. Lawrence O’Donnell, is that you?
I have a name which I am using here, unlike yourself, tracking dog shit in a room and running away… like the juvenile little coward that you are. Wolf Blitzer is that you? Mr Doug Valentine is that you?
David Gregory is that you?
“Do you get paid by the amount of stupid you generate on this site?”
I think they are recompensed per response received. I say we short-change them all.
Sillyputty, right you are, but as you know, sometimes it is hard to resist : )
SOMEONE’s security is indeed being damaged by all these intel community LIES being revealed.
It’s not OUR nation’s.
If their claims weigh the same as a duck, then they’re logically made of wood – and therefore…
As they said in “Yes, Minister,” the purpose of the Official Secrets Act is to protect officials, not secrets as such.
http://www.infowars.com/government-stops-glenn-greenwald-from-publishing-his-big-snowden-revelation/
“July is when war begins unless headed off by Snowden full release of crippling intel..”
Fuk’n Classic!! We’re going to avoid WAR in July by providing more info on said ‘Snowden docs release’ at our seminar (July 18-20)..
ps – “We shit you not..”
So this is the story that ties together all the loose threads on NSA surveillance? I just read it but it seems very similar to another story which appeared in The Intercept over a week ago. Ah well, my memory isn’t the best – I find the following grid published in ProPublica to be useful to sort it all out.
Still, I would not have guessed that the ultimate target of this massive spying effort was Denmark. There must be something rotten there. The counter-terrorism programs, wars in the Middle East, sparring with Russia and containment of China were apparently all feints designed to divert attention from the real target – Denmark. Congratulations to Glenn Greenwald and the team at The Intercept for solving this puzzle. I know many NSA types feel the revelations potentially damage national security – but isn’t better for citizens to know the true enemy? Initially, they may be overwhelmed by the prospect of confronting such a formidable foe, but I believe they will ultimately rise to meet this challenge.
Have you ever been to the Osho Meditation Resort in Pune, India. A lot of visitors from Germany and Japan and of course a few Americans and Australians. And more and more locals. But non understood what the Danish woman did there. Absolutely no negative karma?!?
193 countries is not all the countries in the world? 100% is less than the full range?
God what a huckster. Professionals publish and do follow-ups. They don’t make it a sideshow about themselves. Step right up folks for Greenbacks the barking seal. Oh, god, the government ‘”said something. Better go back and read more slides.”
Fireworks fizzle. But still the Greenbacks pups wag their tails and yap at his feet.
It’s a good thing you’re not the one managing the release of the documents. Yes, it’s highly likely the US government is simply trying something to prevent the release by making stuff up. But it’s a good idea for publishers to show they’ve done the due diligence necessary to check claims and counter-claims. It will help with credibility.
Just checked Glenn’s twitter feed – seems as though the last minute claims that needed to be checked came AFTER the statement the next story would publish at midnight.
I REALLY hope they don’t get sucked in by false claims. This info really needs to keep coming out.
Are you wringing your hands, praying that Greenbacks is safe?
PSBI –
Oh gee, either I’m not writing clearly or you need to read my post again. I’m a bit frustrated as well. I realize that there’s some need for caution, but the gov’t doesn’t exactly have the most credibility. After what NYT’s editor Baquet said he learned and what TI itself experienced over that Afghanistan revelation, I hope they are more skeptical. As I said, this stuff NEEDS to come out.
I’m not a “Glennbot” although I admire a lot of what he’s done and especially enjoy his rants. I was open here at TI that I was not going to buy the book, it just didn’t feel right. I’m not a “Glenn-hater” either. I’m above all concerned about this and other issues.
BTW, although I’m not “wringing my hands”, I do want Glenn to remain safe. He’s a fellow human and I don’t like to wish harm on my fellows.
I wonder if Glenn is working on another book.
While we’re waiting for midnight and what will happen to Cinderella, here’s more legal analysis on the Hobby Lobby decision. Rudy, take it away.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/06/random-observations-on-hobby-lobby.html
One meditation:
Squeamish about (but fascinated by) female sexuality, yet welcoming of violence as ‘solution.’ Sounds like our media, sounds like our policies. America, grow the f%#* up, please…
If it’s conceiving, it’s healthy, works properly. The lengths some people will go, the things they’ll say, to get free recreational cleansing agents.
What other perfectly healthy bodily function does the progressive left want to clinicalize, and make neighbors insure against for its convenience?
Is the uterus the West Bank?
haha. it kind of is, isn’t it?
Well, personally I think this is a wedge issue, something that purportedly distinguishes the ‘left’ from the ‘right’ in the charade that is the establishment puppet-show, like gun control or whatever, so I can’t join you in a dance of ideology about it. I find the two parties more similar than dissimilar, and their united commitment to corruption, corporatism and militarism far outweighs these pretended battles.
Nonetheless this is a cultural signifier, one that reveals US culture as largely bereft of genuine introspection and sexual maturity, in my opinion. The sensational often wins out over the thoughtful in American culture (and both the left and the right are guilty of this) – a trend many were hoping was being curtailed by the surfacing of a more modern philosophy across the board. No such luck.
You’re losing it. Your words look like they were thrown against a wall to see what would stick.
These young women may have something to say about immunizations:
http://truthaboutgardasil.org/memorial/
I hope they were insured.
I’m supremely relieved that Rude Pundit is not on the high court. ;)
I think Rudy and Tonio Scalia might get along splendidly. Or at least they’d rhyme.
Hell…I’m still working my way through Justice Ginsburg’s 35 page dissent.
Although I must admit that the Rude Pudit provides a very refreshing and funny opinion on the majority ruling.
Greenwald says (Twitter) the government has suddenly (as in today, supposedly) begun ‘making last-minute claims’ to prevent the next Intercept article.
Tempted though I am to encourage throwing caution to the winds, this is of course a matter which must be seriously weighed – even if the timing on the government’s part is blatantly suspicious and indicative of what is now evidently regarded as typical government/military incompetence. Glenn says they are investigating the claims, but gives no indication – as yet – of a delay.
It’s midnight on the East Coast. We go out with an appropriate closing number.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzBTqLy7gkY
In that case, I’m off to bed.
But I’m reminded of something Pedinska noticed during the Munk Debates. When Glenn mentioned this particular piece he planned to publish, Michael Hayden said something not intended for public consumption. IIRC, it sounded very much like, “Oh Jesus!”
The Greenback bots still think Greenbacks is in danger. LOL.
Michael Brenner again demonstrates his considerable gift for clear thinking:
“By any objective measure, the intelligence establishment’s performance in its main task of gathering and interpreting information has been mediocre. Graded in terms of efficiency, yield per unit of resources invested, the United States surely is at the bottom of the international ranking. There has been no explanation for this latest dismaying lapse. None is demanded — by the White House, by Congress, by the media. The latter phenomenon itself provides part of the explanation. Nobody has held the intelligence agencies accountable for sins of commission or omission since the great GWOT was launched. They have been flooded with dollars, allowed to run their own show, and publicize as a great successes their paltry results because no one has been looking critically at what they have been doing. Even the Snowden revelations’ shining of a light on systemic abuse of constitutional guaranteed civil liberties has dimmed.”
More here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-brenner/intelligence-failure-in-i_b_5544340.html
“collect-it-all” is a willful sort of stupid, innit? The Intelligence Community (I hate this term) knows “more hay” is irreversibly complex, yet they can’t help themselves. It’s almost as if national security has nothing to do with national security. I guess it depends on the definition of national.
“It’s almost as if national security has nothing to do with national security. I guess it depends on the definition of national.”
Good points. I would go further and say the same holds true in governance, in that it no longer has anything to do with elected officials or appointees representing the citizens future, and everything to do with securing their own – at our expense.
Like you, I guess it depends on the definition of governance.
““In poor countries, officials receive explicit bribes; in D.C. they get the sophisticated, implicit, unspoken promise to work for large corporations”
– Nassim Nicholas Taleb, The Bed of Procrustes: Philosophical and Practical Aphorisms
Americans are represented.. focus testing is quite accurate..
With regards to my former comments on making a change that matters re: the American solution for national level political change:
In 2012, 162 American gave 62% of the $$$ to Super-PACS. These “funders” get first crack at our candidates for office – that is what needs to change.
Although most here have likely seen it already – more in this video from Lawrence Lessig on the woes of the citizens of “LesterLand” (America) and what can be done:
“There is a corruption at the heart of American politics, caused by the dependence of Congressional candidates on funding from the tiniest percentage of citizens. That’s the argument at the core of this blistering talk by legal scholar Lawrence Lessig.”
“I never favored any political party. Being a conservative or a liberal, a Republican or a Democrat, these are just labels that people use to categorize each other so that they can quickly decide whether or not they want to listen to what they have to say. Politicians are not interested in empathizing with each other. They simply try to do as little as possible in the way of serving the public while building their reputation among their peers, amassing power and wealth that is unimaginable to the common American citizen that they supposedly represent.”
– Aaron B. Powell, Oneiric: Stories
I don’t generally read your comments.
“I don’t generally read your comments.
It has often been said that “each of us knows something that others do not.”
It is comments like this where the universality of that statement can legitimately be questioned.
“The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And even if he is not romantic personally he is very apt to spread discontent among those who are.”
– H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy
“quoteI don’t generally read your comments.”unquote
I read yours…#laugh a minute
Might have been better if Mr. Greenwald had not given notice regarding his pending article. Anyway here is the latest spying revelation from the Washington Post.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/court-gave-nsa-broad-leeway-in-surveillance-documents-show/2014/06/30/32b872ec-fae4-11e3-8176-f2c941cf35f1_story.html
Meanwhile, in all the legal excitement, there’s this: the Abu Ghraib torture lawsuit is active again.
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/jun/30/iraq-lawsuit-defense-contractor-torture-abu-graib
On-point both as a past concern of Glenn and a lot of us, and points up some discussion down-thread as to military contractors. This was a very ugly case. It also suggests that corporations have the right to be tried as war criminals, not just given the right to free religion.
Thank goodness for the Kings’ 18th century Alient Tort Statute!?
Catsup w/ coram: wouldn’t need no Hobby Lobby w/ a single payer system. With Obamacare, next thing you know Blackwater will reorganize as a fully-insured Health Care Provider … and Katie bar the door.
See you ‘Round Midnight … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPGcpm3v1sU
LOL!
denying life and limb for profit. smooth transition.
Thanks for posting this coram nobis; as well as all of your other contributions regarding legal matters to readers of The Intercept.
This is good news. Please continue to keep us informed.
‘Time to take their toys away.’ Fat chance, that.
Were it not for frustrated reader comment TI would near be a complete waste of time.
What a pathetic joke of aborted talent and purported million$ in billionaire financing.
The result:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/30/nsa-chief-michael-rogers-snowden-intelligence-leaks?CMP=ema_565
*Obama Orders 200 More Troops to Iraq*
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/30/obama-troops-iraq_n_5545435.html
Antiwar.com states the number today is closer to 300, and that they are combat troops:
“CNN is reporting that in addition to the 200 combat troops reported to Congress, another 100 troops who were in the area are moving into Iraq. These troops are in addition to the 300 troops already guarding the embassy and 300 ‘advisers’ announced last week. Only 180 of the advisers are here so far, so about 800 US troops are in Iraq now, with expectations of further increases going forward, including support staff for the new combat forces and for the Joint Operations post in Baghdad, which is what the advisers are running.”
http://news.antiwar.com/2014/06/30/us-sending-300-combat-troops-to-iraq/
No Place To Hide is Amazon Editors’ choice for best non-fiction book of the year so far. amazon.com
Right on. The content is of course the most important thing, but I was swept up in the writing as well – particularly the chapters where the reporters meet Snowden, and intrigue is all around.
That is good.
It is the best non-fiction book that I’ve read thus far this year. Mr. Greenwald wrote the story line to read like a spy-thriller novel and therefore; it moves along quite rapidly.
LMFAO.
Glenn is announcing the time so that people who would like to participate in the “Reddit AMA” about the story, which will be beginning a few hours after the story is published, will know when and how to be informed about what they might want to ask about the story.
There are reasons for doing things that aren’t all about “LMAO” just because one thinks being willfully ignorant, and wants to drag down others to be willfully ignorant for company.
News should be released as it is written, not to wait for some BREAKING!! DANCE WITH THE STARS!! TALK WITH THE BLOGGERS!! moment. It’s lame. There’s nothing journalist about this, but it sure screams huckster and carnival barker. What a narcissist.
Carnival barker.
It’s really unfortunate that Glenn Greenwald didn’t think to hire you as an adviser years ago. Maybe it’s not too late for you to send to The Intercept your undoubtedly impressive resume of journalistic work you’ve done.
He’s a huckster and opportunist, nothing more.
Do you think it’s his Put Stars By It moment!!! If not, my name is in vain.
Go Greenbacks! Give us the Fireworks!! Put Stars by it!!
Glenn Greenwald said on Twitter that a new NSA article will be published on The Intercept at midnight.
All the remaining Snowden documents will be released next month, according t?o? whistle-blowing site ?Cryptome, which said in a tweet that the release of the info by unnamed third parties would be necessary to head off an unnamed “war”.?
He didn’t say which time zone as to midnight.
Yeah, he inadvertently gave himself some wiggle room by not making that clear. I’m sure he meant US Eastern but now it’s going to be US Pacific. So just a three hour delay. Doncha think? No? Well, worth a shot.
@ Cindy:
Thanks for posting. I’ll be looking for it.
In the absence of content on this site (4 articles in June), the comment section has taken on a life of its own, with topics/threads ranging all over the map.
How about I just don’t hire you people at all.
The latest on employment law:
A California nanny who refused to leave the home of the family she lives with has now agreed to move out by July 4, “as long as the weather is cool,” the family told FoxNews.com Monday.
“Diane Stretton, 64, was fired June 6 by Marcella and Ralph Bracamonte of Upland, Calif., after, ‘she just stopped working,’ the family said.
“But Stretton, who was hired by the family through Craigslist in March, refused to leave the Bracamonte residence. Stretton also threatened to sue the family, claiming wrongful termination and abuse of the elderly.
“When the Bracamontes contacted police three weeks ago, they were told, ‘ “Sorry, you’re going to have to go through the eviction process,” ‘ Marcella Bracamonte said.
“A judge also ruled in the nanny’s favor, saying the family did not end Stretton’s employment in a legal manner.”
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/30/nightmare-nanny-agrees-to-leave-california-home-by-july-4th-family-says/
I guess I don’t see what your problem with this is. The judge is right, she was living there on a long term basis, why should’t they follow the eviction process.
You just despise the working class. Admit it, you’ll feel better.
Three Israeli teen-agers found dead. SHTF.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/30/bodies-missing-israeli-teenagers-found-west-bank
Yet Palestinian children are murdered practically every day by the Israeli government and you don’t see the U.S. “condemning” the violence.
mysterious site trouble, unable 2 post comments past few days. took 10minutes to type this.
I can’t recall a single incident in which David Cameron has expressed remorse over the killing of Palestinian children or the arrests and detentions of Palestinian toddlers in diapers, as he has for Israeli children. I must conclude that all Israeli children are better than other (especially Palestinian) children.
Cameron makes me want to gag!
And of course….the United States will follow suit as we are just “colonies” to the Brits. After all….Washington DC, The Inner City of London, and The Vatican do fly the same flag don’t they?
Must humanity really endure yet one more “religious” war with economic gain for the elites as the main objective? How many more will die at the hands of the International Banking Cabal?
This is depressing to say the very least.
Update: The Baltimore police officer who killed a dog by slitting her throat – after the dog had been restrained – and the officer who assisted him have both been charged with crimes. The link is to an early report of the incident.
How many dogs have been killed by cops in the last year alone?
Oh…..? What crimes specifically?
This is another story that breaks my heart. Treating animals as though they are meaningless creatures. A national police force composed of Department of Homeland Security Guards which appears to have arbitrary dog murder as a primary job duty.
Does someone get to slit their throats as punishment if found guilty of unlawfully killing a scared, defenseless dog? Assholes!
LOL.
Good twitter find.
What a sack of shit.
Put Stars by It…that is.
So you’re saying that the government HASN’T increased and strengthened the programs since Snowden? What’s changed because of what Snowden has done? The USG has doubled down on funding and strengthening the programs. The bullshit “committees” go nowhere.
So what’s changed for the working class because of the releases?
“I want to help the government, not hurt it.” — Edward Snowjob
“The NSA should be able to spy on our enemies, including Al Qaeda.” –Greenbacks
LOL.
Amy Goodman interviews Ed Snowden’s attorney. Germany drops Verizon. This is a good podcast. http://www.democracynow.org/
Bourgeois liberal interviews bourgeois liberal. Good podcast at 11.
Thanks for your intrepid opinion, Mr. armchair radical.
SCOTUS finds in favor of Hobby Lobby.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/supreme-court-sides-with-employers-over-birth-control-mandate/2014/06/30/852e5c84-fc61-11e3-b1f4-8e77c632c07b_story.html
Any objections? Any approvals?
Approve. Harris v. Quinn too.
Neither go far enough.
Am still working through the decision. While it doesn’t suggest that a corporation, as a person, itself has religious faith subject to substantial burden, it does suggest its owners and officers can flout laws that do burden their faith. What this means for their employees and customers is going to be seen, and fairly soon.
It’s couched in the 1993 so-called Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which oddly suggests that a Congressional enactment can define 1st Amendment freedom of religion, and Alito restates that here.
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2014/06/although-i-have-followed-with-interest.html
So. Does this mean that a firm’s management doesn’t have to obey state or federal employment laws if it runs counter to their religion?
Do you object to letting the market decide whether it wants to work in or patronize one?
I object to conflating religious organizations and business ones. “The market” isn’t necessarily free, if Lamb of God Tire & Rubber Co. is the only big employer in your town, or if Christian Tel & Tel is your sole Internet/phone provider in a utility setup. “The market”, under corporate law, also subject to considerable regulation otherwise. If someone can find a religious objection to, say, minimum-wage laws (see, e.g., Genesis 3:19), will that prevail?
One market that will prosper now will be the lawyers who can raise, on behalf of their corporate clients, any new blurry theory of how applicable this case will be.
Then you raise goats or cut hair or flip hamburgers or fix cars or leave town. It’s (well, was) a free country.
Sure, but there’s only so much portability. If you find out that your free-market broker sold you a mutual fund that turned out to be a sham, or if your national drugstore chain sold you Lipetor that turned out to be rock salt, or if your 401k turned out to be looted by that free-market board of directors, or if the national petrochemical industries decide to set gas prices at $10 a gallon, you’re not going to be able to move far enough.
Free markets? Try Bangladesh or Nigeria. No effective gov’t regulation, fine. No economy either.
Portab-…not geographic mobility? “Portability”?
Maybe you need a new model. When you stop thinking of things to insure then forcing others to participate in your game–and buying it yourselves and of your own volition borne of your own phobias–your rates will fall; not until then.
Instead of repeating mantras it would be well to read at least some corporate and torts law. We’ve evolved in Anglo-American over the last 800 years from economies dominated by manorial holdings, secular and ecclesiastical (and very expensive) nobility, and serf labor as the generator of wealth, with little room for guilds and merchants, to one in which corporations could prosper.
Then you get your money back. (BTW, read up on adverse effects of statins on the human body. You want me to participate in insuring for that?)
The decision itself specifically refers to the individuals’ rights to the ‘free practice of religion’, those individuals who own and run this corporation. The fact that it is a private corporation appears to have some bearing on the decision. The court said a corporation cannot do anything in and of itself, it is the people who own and run it who do. Were it a public corporation this ruling could not be applied (I believe) as such owners would represent far too wide a variety of disparate beliefs.
I haven’t finished reading the decision though, and it looks like I’m going to have plow through the FRFA as well. Ugh!
Thanks to coram for all the comments, and to all of you.
One thing that comes up in Alito’s majority opinion is that the RFRA doesn’t trump employment discrimination on the basis of race. He cites the strict-scrutiny rule (a gov’t infringement on a fundamental right or “classification” of people is justified only if it’s a compelling gov’t interest, narrowly tailored, and the least restrictive means of achieving that interest). Strict scrutiny is the highest level, and applicable to religion and race. It doesn’t apply to some other classifications, e.g., gender or sexual orientation, which are still at the lower levels of intermediate scrutiny or rational basis.
Remember in all this we’re talking about for-profit corporations, not nonprofit charities or religious organizations as such. Also, it expands the freedoms of management. Their workforce and customers are not the main concern here.
As if the former and two latter live absent of symbiosis, or of market dynamics that naturally produce competition in a true market.
And not a fake, centrally planned “Marketplace.”
Assuming that a “true” market isn’t an anarchic one. Here we need to discuss the idea that a corporation enjoys status as a limited-liability entity with rights to property and legal protection, and due-process protection in court as an entity. A “true” market is also one in which the consumer might, say, have redress from asbestos in their sheetrock or dioxin in their baby food, or the job-seeker certain contractual rights.
You agree with Greenbacks and support Citizens United right?
What’s Citizens United got to do with this? (For everyone else: one case was about free speech and campaign contributions; this case is about religious liberty and health care — apples and oranges). And what has Greenwald got to do with Hobby Lobby?
Now, class, for today’s lesson in corporate law, let us discuss Genesis 3:16:
So, does this mean your firm’s health plan can exclude, say, an epidural in OB-GYN when your female employee is giving birth? Or does it mean the health plan is assignable to her husband instead? Discuss.
She, or the husband, buys it, if the wants, from a company that designs policies that make her more comfortable than its competitors’ plans.
@ coram nobis:
Well….if not so pitifully true that would be hysterical!
OK then…Let’s try this one: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ”
The Affordable Care Act indirectly imposes religious beliefs by mandating corporations to purchase insurance, which may or may not impose upon the religious beliefs of the owners of those corporations, alternatively they can pay a fine to the Federal Government (IRS).
The Affordable Care Act blurs the lines between church and state by exacting payment to the State for failure to comply with a law which infringes upon the religious beliefs of the owners of corporations.
Does the Affordable Care Act then take precedence over Amendment I of the Constitution of the United States of America?
That’s not how it is supposed to work.
@ Lyra1: “Does the Affordable Care Act then take precedence over Amendment I of the Constitution of the United States of America?
That’s not how it is supposed to work.”
How it’s supposed to work is a balancing of the free-exercise clause with the Establishment clause, and the Congressional power to regulate commerce as well. There’s also the question of the employees, who do have certain rights, cognizable under case law, to equality in matters of contraception, privacy, gender and marriage. While we are talking about private corporations (here, in this case, closely-held ones) at some point it becomes a government matter either by providing a legal framework to corporations, or, under corporate law, legal recognition of who they are and what they do.
For instance, a property deed might be a private contract; but, in a case involving a racial covenant (Shelley v. Kraemer), the Court held that the states can’t enforce it. In the Heart of Atlanta Motel case, the Court found that a private business can’t discriminate on a racial basis because it infringes interstate commerce, a Constitutional provision. And even Alito’s opinion here went to great pains to say that religious belief doesn’t justify racial discrimination in violation of Title VII law (that 20 USC §2000e they keep citing).
It’s a matrix of constitutional rights and responsibilities, and quoting them freestanding is sort of like quoting Scripture out of context.
Going at it from another direction: religious organizations enjoy an exemption from property taxation, something not explicit in the constitution but by grace of a 1970 decision. Should we grant religious-professing corporations that same exemption, or, alternatively, withdraw all religious exemptions as an inequality to other organizations and individuals who aren’t religious?
Alito could have saved a lot a mischief by more narrowly defining this matter. BTW, I am aware that this decision applies to closely-held corporations, that is, where a small number of people or a family hold all the shares, as opposed to limited-liability corporations incorporated and trading ownership shares on the big board. This decision leaves them free to claim free religion as well.
But you had to drag profit vis-à-vis non-profit into it above for some reason.
I’m talking about closely-held (i.e., family or small number of owners) corporations vs. publicly-traded ones. Alito was very careful to distinguish Hobby Lobby as the former.
Now you are.
Think of it as a progression of categories. Until today, religious organizations and nonprofit (501(c)3 (c)4) organizations could have objections of conscience. Now we have for-profit organizations. We’ve started with closely-held corporations, but the next class is publicly-traded corporations.
“Going at it from another direction: religious organizations enjoy an exemption from property taxation, something not explicit in the constitution but by grace of a 1970 decision. Should we grant religious-professing corporations that same exemption, or, alternatively, withdraw all religious exemptions as an inequality to other organizations and individuals who aren’t religious?”
I opt for withdrawing all religious exemptions as an inequality to other organizations and individuals who aren’t religious.
Granting a religious professing corporation a tax exemption (even if one is a “closely-held corporation) is a form of State interference in religious matters because it adds value (monetary) to the claim of religious affiliation and/or practice. Which can now, according to this landmark decision; be claimed by any “closely-held” corporation to circumvent the provisions of the Affordable Care Act providing that the corporation can prove that they adhere to “local, state or Federal employment-discrimination laws” with special regard for those pertaining to race.
I could also argue that any individual who is a member of a State acknowledged religion should be granted a blanket tax exemption for professing the beliefs of that religion. The problem with that argument is that those that who are not members of a state sponsored religion will, by choosing not to participate, suffer from discrimination. Those who choose State sponsored organized religion get a financial reward for doing so; those who don’t get discrimination. In this hypothetical situation; the State would be indirectly interfering with the free exercise of an individual to practice their own version of spirituality simply by withholding financial reward.
The provision of health care should be between the individual and their medical provider; not between the State and Insurance/ Pharmaceutical Corporations. Nor, should there be laws that grant any Federal agency the right to intrude upon that relationship based upon ownership of mandated Health Insurance.
“A sloppy law meets a sloppy decision. Frankly, a single-payer scheme, or at least a public option, would have made this whole case moot, at least removing health care as an employer’s duty and getting it out of the workplace.”
I do not agree with the SCOTUS ruling in this case; It is rather like adding insult to the injury caused by NOT repealing the Affordable Care Act.
Their rights are not impinged by this ruling. They are free to get their devices elsewhere.
@seer: They’re “free” to get their IUDs elsewhere, after they’ve paid, in part, for a health plan made possible a gov’t program, the ACA. But what other reproductive procedures might their employer object to, once the employee is in OB-GYN? Certain delivery or birth procedures? Fetal care pre- or post-natal, esp. given some kind of complications? At some point we’re talking big personal expense if the insurance won’t cover.
And what if the employee doesn’t have a “traditional” marriage? Does the plan deny the entire maternity care? Or, for that matter, the entire plan if the spouse isn’t an employee? (Just wait till they re-visit the Notre Dame/ACA case.)
Bullshit. It was made manifestly clear by the progressive left that it felt it wouldn’t work if everyone wasn’t all in under penalty of law. That’s Hobby Lobby’s sweat and tears, not the gov’ts.
Progressives should have thought of that expense before building up a trillion dollar fake emotional-disease industry, or pathologizing the healthy reproductive process.
@ coram nobis https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/06/18/nsa-surveillance-secret-cable-partners-revealed-rampart-a/#comment-51334
Those are all hypotheticals. Should they arise, I guess they’d have to be taken case by case. But I doubt they will come up. Maternity care is regarded as a part of normal medical care. Birth control methods are not yet so regarded. They are special women’s thingies. Shouldn’t be that way but is, probably due to the ‘shame’ that continues to be attached to women’s healthy sexuality, and the risk women face of an unwanted pregnancy, a risk that (many if not most) men still have not fully taken responsibility for minimizing.
But this case at hand is very specific. The plaintiffs by right of conscience, object to certain methods of birth control. I don’t agree with them but I do support their right to conscience with passion, as much passion as I support my right to my conscience. That attitude is, I believe, at the very heart of humanistic pluralism in a positively tolerant society.
@seer:
Yes, I posed hypotheticals, and this was specifically a case of a closely-held corporation objecting to particular provisions of the ACA under particular sections of a Congressional enactment, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. It might not come to that, but the Notre Dame case is coming up, with more issues.
Justice Ginsburg did raise the McClure case in Minnesota in an example, perhaps extreme, of what religious objections an employer could raise.
http://www.leagle.com/decision/19851214370NW2d844_11154
Maybe it’s an extreme possibility, but that hypothetical is out there too. Still, you raise some valid thoughts.
@ coram nobis
Wow! What an unattractive group they are!
That case *is* extreme. I might be tempted to explain scripture to them. It’s my understanding as a reader of the bible as an historical, poetic, & philosophical text, that the teachings of Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses (the Ten Commandments) and replaced them with Love. Anyone following the teachings of Christ would seek to be the evidence of Love, that is Divine Love. I don’t recall anywhere in the stories of Jesus where he forced his will upon anyone at all, other than the moneylenders who damn well deserved it and still do. I would conclude that they are not Christians in the sense of followers of Christ, but heretics who promote fear over love, evil over goodness.
Yes, there are people like that in this world and no matter what religion they claim to follow, they all share the characteristics of authoritarian haters. I don’t know what a free society does with such people. Other than leave them alone to stew in their own juices until they’re struck by lightening or some other
miracle awakens them to a more congenial reality, it may be best to not work for them unless you agree with them. Then all will go well for you.
I know if my prospective employer asked me those questions in a job interview, I’d get up and walk out. It’s every man for himself under such circumstances.
That’s a “free market” concept – don’t work where you’re not happy.
coram, I would hate to want, or allow, the government to whip them into shape. It would follow in a long line of terrible precedents*, and freedom, even when people misuse it, (provided no harm is done to life, limb, or soul) is far better than giving the government powers it could then turn on me and you at another time.
Such extremism is rare. Eventually it dies from its own unattractiveness. But suppressing it gives it energy and resurgence. I say, let it die of its own accord.
~
*Kent State, Ruby Ridge, Republican Convention 2008 St. Paul, Democrat Convention 1968 Chicago, Waco, et al. I’m sure you could name many more.
Fucundity means it’s healthy there, working correctly.
I am revolted by the fact that The Affordable Care Act enforced the control of Insurance and Pharmaceutical Industries over the practice of medicine thus allowing for the infringement of the state to force employers to offer Insurance which provides payment for birth control (which is an individual choice not a state one) and also a choice which does not apply to single men who are mandated to pay for this “birth-control” provision in their insurance policy or pay a fine to the IRS. The Affordable Care Act is the problem.
Although I agree that Hobby-Lobby should not be forced to offer Insurance to their full-time employees which complies with the Affordable Care Act mandate; I do not agree with the implication that “Hobby-Lobby” has the right to mandate what types of birth-control their female employees are eligible to receive with Insurance company reimbursement based upon the religious beliefs of the owners. Nor do I agree with the resulting precedent that any for profit company entity can hold a “religious” viewpoint.
I disagree with the ruling on the basis that Hobby-Lobby should have to comply with the Affordable Care Act just like any other for-profit company. I also disagree with the 2012 decision of the Supreme Court to Uphold the Affordable Care Act.
A sloppy law meets a sloppy decision. Frankly, a single-payer scheme, or at least a public option, would have made this whole case moot, at least removing health care as an employer’s duty and getting it out of the workplace.
And the implications of this decision are wider. If having to comply with local, state or Federal employment-discrimination laws are a substantial burden to their religious freedom, that’s now arguable, at least on anything other than racial discrimination (which Alito was careful to single out). It’s not just about ACA, at least not as written.
I’ve noticed my internet connection is very slow but only when I navigate to certain sites, this one, for example, and others that could be regarded as non-conformist. Anyone else notice such a problem?
Yes, I have noticed the same thing! Makes one wonder….
Get over yourself. There’s nothing “non-conformist” about this website. It’s owned by an oligarch billionnaire FFS. Every blogger they hired is a capitalist. By definition, that makes them conformists.
You’re apparently suggesting that capitalists can’t be non-conformist. That’s absurd on its face.
I think you may have a problem making distinctions that aren’t immediately obvious to the unobservant eye. Have you considered seeing someone about that; it’s a boring single track you mindlessly steer around day after day? There are effective ways of breaking bad habits, you know.
SCOTUS finds in favor of Hobby Lobby.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/supreme-court-sides-with-employers-over-birth-control-mandate/2014/06/30/852e5c84-fc61-11e3-b1f4-8e77c632c07b_story.html
Any objections?
Obama may have succeeded in expanding the war on civil liberties under the guise of fighting terrorism, but he is a piss poor socialist.
http://ns.umich.edu/new/releases/22254-wealth-inequality-doubles-among-u-s-households?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+umns-releases+%28University+of+Michigan+News+Service+-+News+Releases%29
Socialists have always wanted well compensated leadership.
“Socialists have always wanted well compensated leadership.
Blanket statements always muffle the message.
Considering the number of “historical” plunders committed by oligarchical politicians that were considered to be “conspiracy theory” at the time of the plunder, and then confirmed by whistleblowers —-is there any reason to believe that the plunders made for political and economic gain have stopped or that history does not repeat itself? No— there is not because justice was never served.
In the case of The Intercept, as related to the plunder of humanity by the mass surveillance of governments upon citizens of the world as revealed by Edward Snowden and Glenn Greenwald; the citizenry has been given an opportunity to check the diabolical agenda of the elite in the here and now. Therefore, any organization or group which acts to expose; and/or coalition of organizations which act to oppose, and /or prosecute the agenda of the offenders generating the basic issue (mass government surveillance); is to be commended and supported by the citizenry. This applies regardless of the perceived political affiliation of any such group, organization, or coalition.
This comment was meant to be a reply to this post: coram nobis 29 Jun 2014 at 4:55 pm.
Somehow it ended up showing as a new post although it was correctly entered as a reply. However; it does appear to generally apply to the general line of thought of recent comments on this article.
Yes, although it helps if the whistleblowers confirm the conspiracy theory before real damage gets done. Your reply was on a subthread about Nixon’s sabotaging the 1968 Vietnam peace talks. We know about that now, but the war would take more years, more lives (including 20,000 US) and end in debacle. Cambodia might have been spared.
For that matter, it would have been nice to find out about what really happened at the Gulf of Tonkin, and not get into the war to begin with. It’s nice getting the whistleblowers and the documentary proof, but every day that passes means the damage gets deeper and more irreversable, if our audience gets my drift.
quote”“Yet the two tapping sites may be two points on the same cable, so the NSA simply captures the communications of the German citizens as they transit Denmark, and the Danish citizens as they transit Germany, all the while considering it entirely in accordance with their agreements.” unquote
All the while “considering” it entirely in accordance with their agreements. Indeed. whudda thunk…
http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2013/12/common-law-coup-detat-how-nsas-creative-interpretations-law-subvert-congress-and-rule
The fact that some members of congress were trying to reform the USA Patriot Act;
“amend section 215 of the USA PATRIOT Act to require the government to show the records it seeks are not only relevant but also material to an authorized investigation and that the target has some connection to terrorism or espionage before it can obtain those records.”
proves that there are still a “few good men” willing to uphold the constitution of the United States of America, and willing to advocate on the part of the citizenry. However; the secret FISA Court, can interpret the provisions of the Patriot Act in relation to constitutionality in any way that it wants. Therefore, anything ordered by the Executive Branch of government to “combat terrorism” UP the Patriot Act itself, is consistent with the provisions of the Constitution IAW that secret court.
The whole Patriot Act needs to be repealed and the FISA court ( a court that acts in SECRET and controlled by the one branch of the government????) must be abolished.
Psssttttt…. If anyone really wants to know the “BIG” illegal government secret it is this. First you and everyone must understand this. Even to this day we are seriously being lied to. NSA is just a name of one agency and there are MANY doing the same thing with the same technology and worse… FAR worse. We are living in a totalitarian grid and they have infiltrated EVERYTHING imaginable and worse. What they have learned from all the wars and the technology to do it they brought back home to suppress the American People to control and dominate. It gets worse. TI’s are real. Most can’t explain as it is made to be this way. The local police, Homeland Security and many other agencies are in on the “Super Secret”. It gets worse. They are and have been for years stalking and murdering citizens within the country and very few know about this. They are getting warm (ACLU and others) but sill so far from the truth. What one must understand is everything is a lie. For instance the claim is it’s only meta data. LIE. By now you have heard about stingray. They are listening and recording all phone calls. I have told these morons for years to fix it’s flaws because I’m tired of paying for a phone that sounds like shit (My voice echo when I talk) They are also controlling communications which can stop this email from going thru for instance. They are using the grid just like in a war zone to track and follow everyone. TI’s get the violence …. from above. ALL the planes you think are commercial planes and helicopters and cesnas and the ones high in the sky which leave the contrais …… that’s the deception to make you think you are looking at a regular plane…. you are not. They can see thru walls. How do I know this?? Because they have intentionally put me in three accidents. And the police are the cover for the program. And yes, I have the tapes ( so do others). They are being watched by many. I have thousands of hours in detail of this FACT. Snowden and Greenwald will be jealous of what is going to be exposed. It cannot be stopped at this point even in my death. The last accident was a hit and run. The video will show who really was at the scene. What one must understand is who controls the airspace controls EVERYTHING…. all in plain sight disguised to trick the average person (most all) into thinking they are looking at a commercial plane. All of you see it so pay attention to the skies, as this is the key. I’ve been knowing about EVERYTHING for well over 5 years now. The calculated violence started about 3 years ago first with helicopters, cesna planes, then the large commercial planes and the ones which leave the trails dropping down high from skies at my car at every moment….ALL on tape. I do have a website which I NEVER hit the post button on. Now it’s time and it won’t be stopped, but I do need EVERYONE help because once you see it clear as the Sun and see my story I promise your mind will be blown. In the mean time you can see this for yourself on youtube as it recently just dawned on me to put in the key words “government helicopter stalking” “government plane stalking” They are now well done, but a few are clear and good enough to get the idea. The subjects getting stalked are telling the truth, video just not executed well and it’s hard for the victim to film, understand or explain what’s going onto them as this IS what the program is meant to do without leaving a trail of their crimes and destroy the target…. even cause intentional accidents and fly away as if they were not there. If subject tries to get help they already know how to stop it using technology such as the stingray. It’s late, but I WILL be back soon to disclose. Sorry Glen, your taking to long as I’ve waited an entire year for the real terrorist organizations to be exposed. sorry for not spacing mistakes. Again pay attention to the skies, your neighborhood and the air. That’s the “secret”. Your government has gone dark and rogue and murdering in cold blood and covering it up as if they were never there and the police are helping hide this FACT because they are illegally violating our rights and abusing very powerful technology against us. And yes, they are reading EVERYTHING So FUCK YOU TRAITORS.
I think everybody needs to take a look at NYT and James Risen’s latest. And there are documents.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/30/us/before-shooting-in-iraq-warning-on-blackwater.html
Retweeted by Glenn Greenwald
Russell Brandom @russellbrandom · 10h
Just a reminder, while you’re reading that Blackwater piece: the Obama Administration is actively trying to imprison the guy who wrote it.
*Reminds me of the movie ‘Greenzone’ … which is about the only area in Iraq still under U.S. ‘control’ today. Two thubms up
“Blackwater began as a small company providing shooting ranges and training facilities in rural North Carolina for the military and for police departments. After the American-led invasion of Afghanistan and later Iraq, it ramped up to become a global security contractor with billions of dollars in contracts for the State Department and the Central Intelligence Agency.”
Later in the article:
“Condoleezza Rice, then the secretary of state, named a special panel to examine the Nisour Square episode and recommend reforms, but the panel never interviewed Mr. Richter or Mr. Thomas.
Patrick Kennedy, the State Department official who led the special panel, told reporters on Oct. 23, 2007, that the panel had not found any communications from the embassy in Baghdad before the Nisour Square shooting that raised concerns about contractor conduct.
“We interviewed a large number of individuals,” Mr. Kennedy said. “We did not find any, I think, significant pattern of incidents that had not — that the embassy had suppressed in any way.””
The first paragraph of the article:
” Just weeks before Blackwater guards fatally shot 17 civilians at Baghdad’s Nisour Square in 2007, the State Department began investigating the security contractor’s operations in Iraq. But the inquiry was abandoned after Blackwater’s top manager there issued a threat: “that he could kill” the government’s chief investigator and “no one could or would do anything about it as we were in Iraq,” according to department reports”
“His memo and other newly disclosed State Department documents make clear that the department was alerted to serious problems involving Blackwater and its government overseers before the Nisour Square shooting, which outraged Iraqis and deepened resentment over the United States’ presence in the country.”
Four Blackwater Guards are currently on trial. The surviving members of the State Department and the CIA are the ones who should be on trial. Yet….the cover-up continues, as the Obama Administration attempts to imprison Mr. Risen.
This fact serves as evidence that our elected officials are merely puppets of the elite, intent upon pursuing wars and conflicts for the economic and political gain of the elite so that they can ultimately “control it all” to the detriment of the rest of humanity.
This quote may be on point in contemplating military contractors:
Exactly.
A true militia is formed by the citizens of any national government wishing to protect their families and other intangible values; and to protect their homes, property, land and tangible assets from encroachment by invaders. In other words a military force formed to defend the Nation State within the domestic borders. The National Guard and Coast Guard was formed for this purpose.
The Army,Navy, Marines, and Air Force (DOD) exist to conduct defensive and offensive military operations, both foreign and domestic, specifically to uphold and protect the Constitution of the United States of America.
Mercenary armies are used to conduct offensive operations, both within and outside the boundaries of the Nation State and are acting strictly for economic gain.
Why is the Department of State contracting mercenary forces to conduct internal and external operations?
We already have the DOD and the National Guard and the Coast Guard which consists of people specifically hired and trained to uphold the provisions of the Constitution and protect the homeland from enemies both foreign and domestic.
@coram nobis – I’ve replaced a word or two – the sentiment seems the same:
“The corporately owned politicians are either capable or they are not; if they are, you cannot trust them, because they always aspire to their own greatness, either by oppressing you, who are their master, or others contrary to your intentions; but if the they are not skilful, you are ruined in the usual way.
The Blackwater trial in 2011 ended in a hung jury. They claimed there would be a re-trial. Does anyone see if that has occurred?
snip..
‘In 2009, U.S. District Judge Ricardo Urbina dismissed the case against the Blackwater guards. From the Iraqi government’s perspective, the dismissal was an example of Americans acting above the law. Urbina said government lawyers ignored the advice of senior Justice Department officials by building the criminal case on sworn statements of the guards given under a grant of immunity — meaning the guards’ own statements could not be used against them.
Two years later, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit revived the prosecution, ruling that Urbina had wrongly interpreted the law. The decision gave the Justice Department another chance.
In the upcoming trial, one of the guards, Nicholas Slatten, is charged with first-degree murder. The other three guards — Paul Slough, Evan Liberty and Dustin Heard — are charged with voluntary manslaughter, attempted manslaughter and gun charges. Slatten could be sentenced to life in prison if convicted, while the other guards face a mandatory minimum penalty of 30 years in prison if a defendant is convicted of the gun charge and at least one other charge.’
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7-years-later-blackwater-guards-go-trial
thanks. US embassy officials in Baghdad sided with Blackwater rather than the state department investigators as tension escalated between Richter and Blackwater in August 2007. This story of today sure makes Benghazi more of a kind of payback from State via CIA messengers.
“In 2010, prosecutors obtained indictments against former Blackwater president Gary Jackson and four others on felony firearms violations involving dozens of weapons.”
I repeat: It is the surviving members of the State Department (Condoleeza Rice) and the CIA (working under the direction of the Executive Branch (George Bush 43) as well as the Blackwater President; who should be on trial for perpetrating an illegal “War on Terror”. The guards were just following orders.
Don’t forget Congressman Mike Rogers, chief NSA apologist and his wife the CEO.
http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/tag/kristi-clemens-rogers/
@ Ben Franklin:
“Mike Rogers’ wife was the president and the CEO of the company that was contracted by the State Department to provide intelligence-based and physical security services. While this sort of crony capitalism is seen as “business as usual” in the cesspool that is D.C., the really crazy part of this story is that as Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Rogers is charged with investigating the adequacy of security at the Benghazi compound prior to the September 11, 2012 terrorist attack.”
Yeah….ALL of them….from the Executive down spanning both administrations since 11 Sep 2001.
Come on Intercept!
I’m pulling for you.
I know you can do it!
Just one more day left in June.
Hammer out one more little article.
At least you can then say that you averaged one article per week for the month of June.
If we get a month with five weeks, you can cross that bridge when it gets here……………….
May 3, 2005:
“Arianna Huffington–everyone’s favorite Greek-born conservative-turned-progressive-activist pundit–is getting into the game. On Monday she will launch The Huffington Post,….” –Newsweek
May 9, 2005:
Arianna Huffington launches the The Huffington Post.
I’m very disappointed that this website has been in operation for quite some time now, but is unable to keep up with the Kardashians, and is utterly silent over the real housewives and Michelle Wie winning the U.S. Open last week.
Web publishing is been made available to masses for quite a while now. WordPress themes are cheap.
Over at Infowars, they seem to be able to put 60+ people to work on print, digital, broadcast to over 100 AM and FM stations on a little over $6 million/yr. Headlines there for general consumption at this hour are:
The Global Meltdown Has Begun
This Will End the TSA
Fighting Flares in Eastern Ukraine Despite Extended Ceasefire
ISIS Run Out of U.S. Embassy in Turkey
A Form of Liver Disease Has Quickly Emerged as a Public Health Threat
Despite the Grousing, Voters Rarely Fire Lawmakers
“The Battle for Baghdad” – A Backgrounder on ISIS’ [sic] Grand Plan
Pelosi on the Border: We Have to Use This ‘Crisis’ As an ‘Oportunity’
USS Bataan with 1,000 Marines to Join Six Other Warships in the Persian Gulf
Give It Back! Students Ask Selfish Hillary to Return $225K Speaking Fee
Martin Armstrong Warns Civil Unrest Is Rising Everywhere: “This Won’t End Pretty”
Cold War Renewed With a Vengeance While Washington Again Lies
I hope The Intercept isn’t aiming for perfection.
If so, they have fallen dismally short.
Your Digital Subscriptions to the New York Times may have to go. Some of you may be unwilling to part with those.
We want someone to do it for us, this seems plain.
As we seem to have a different ‘it’ in mind, this can be complicated. ‘It’ could be modification of the system. ‘It’ could be bringing down the system. ‘It’ could be preserving the system, with the addition of “a shrubbery and a little path going down the middle.” We support those who will usher ‘it’ in, and criticize those who won’t. This makes sense out of everyone’s comments, rather self-evidently. Personally my ‘it’ is reducing/removing corporatism and militarism in the system, but I confess to falling into cynicism as much as I hope for change in this regard since no one seems to want to do this for me very efficiently and my own efforts to rally interest are usually met with indifference.
Greenwald is one of the few in whom my hope still resides to a large degree, and the Snowden revelations certainly brought more public attention to my chosen ‘it.’
I guess that’s all I wanted to say this time. There’s a point in there somewhere.
“There’s a point in there somewhere.”
Lyra1 – I’ll try not to speak for you, but having read you and many others here, when combined with my life experiences and the results of the Greenwald/Intercept/Poitras/NSA reporting and the Snowden, Binney, Drake, et .al revelations, it seems to me that many are suffering from a severe lack of effective advocacy.
The elected advocates have abandoned the citizens, trading in their promise to protect our individual interests from an overbearing government, all for the comfort of collective greed and self-aggrandizement, to be followed later by personal gain after their “public service” when they retire into the private sector for the real payday they feel are their due because of their “sacrifices” on the citizens behalf.
In other words, the culture surrounding those in power – politicians primarily, but also the media and the rich alike (because the latter has purchased the former) no longer reflects an advocacy role based on defending the citizens from forces that they as individuals would not be able to manage alone.
It’s crony-capitalism run-amok, and we need better advocates. Political party’s and pigeon-holes don’t matter any more. Having rational and citizen-minded government does.
There’s a quote for this somewhere.
“The elected advocates have abandoned the citizens, trading in their promise to protect our individual interests from an overbearing government, all for the comfort of collective greed and self-aggrandizement, to be followed later by personal gain after their “public service” when they retire into the private sector for the real payday they feel are their due because of their “sacrifices” on the citizens behalf.”
A beautiful paragraph that can be somewhat grossly condensed down to: “a revolving door”
@ Cindy: There are no Saviors. Each individual has the power to support those that are trying to expose and oppose governments that are attempting to control all of humanity for the elite. It is the elite (generally the Central Banking Cabal—ie; Federal Reserve, all Central Banks, IMF, World Bank, BIS) that must be clearly identified as the elite and targeted by the world populace at large, to bring down the overbearing governments. The path to autonomy for the human race lies with gaining economic freedom and energy independence. The failing of humanity at this point, is in not recognizing the “enemy” and in falsely trying to shoot the “messengers”, and blaming the “puppet” politicians for executing the will of their masters. Blame the masters. Bring them to justice.
@ Sillyputty:
” Political party’s and pigeon-holes don’t matter any more. Having rational and citizen-minded government does. ”
Well said. WE are the advocates by sheer numbers alone. There are many coming from all walks of life, rich and poor, and across all perceived party lines and divisions. We should support each other to expose the lies and bring the real criminals, which I have identified above in my comment to Cindy, to justice. Money is not a just god.
Yes there are other forces to be reckoned with as well, but destroying the economic foundation of their empire will severely weaken their control and ultimately collapse their global empire. They will fall like a house of cards. Collectively, we have it within our power to do this in order to save our planet. It is just a choice between fear and love.
@ coram nobis & Debbie Re Agenda 21
For some reason it’s quite difficult for me to post today, I did try to include the link (thanks Debbie). Here is a short clip of Ann Bressington in Adelaide discussing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrdmjBAX0E0
@Sillyputty –
You might be interested in this column by Greenwald. (It was written back in 2008, so his thinking may have changed.)
Ideology vs. pragmatism: Is one more important than the other?
The eagerness to eliminate “ideology” and venerate “pragmatism” in politics is understandable, but it’s neither possible nor desirable.
Also, “UPDATE: The discussion in the comment section is particularly good, with many excellent points being made”. That’s true!
@barncat – Thanks for the link. Some thoughts:
Pragmatism – “an approach that assesses the truth of meaning of theories or beliefs in terms of the success of their practical application.”
Progress – “the development of an individual or society in a direction considered more beneficial than and superior to the previous level.”
To me, these are not mutually exclusive terms – and I think the primary problem we face today is that the rich and powerful have created a world where progress means maintaining the status quo: i.e., keeping themselves in positions of power.
What I mean in this case when I say ‘pigeon-holing’ is that by relegating our human resources (average citizens) into groups it weakens the larger human narrative, in that there can be too many voices either squabbling amongst each other or that these groups will be minimized by larger groups or, more likely, the government, thus reducing the ability overall for us, as a group of citizens en-mass, to be effective advocates for ourselves.
I realize that we have to break political paradigms here – and I think that Glenn’s perspective that ideologically driven reasons for making progress trump the pragmatic reasons our government and big-business uses in order to advocate for their position – which is to “control-it-all™.”
In other words, from the perspective of those in power, their ideology or belief system has become a distorted and, in my view, a damaging one of pragmatic self-preservation.
The results of this “pragmatic ideology” has been an abdication of the most fundamental of world views – one based on the idea that we are truly all in this all together, and that in effect, those in power are throwing out the ‘baby with the bathwater’ in their attempt to maintain the status quo.
What those in power have forgotten, time and time again, is that in order to have a well-functioning society, it is essential to have a well-functioning citizenry. Because of this misplaced pragmatism, those in power feel that citizens can be discarded from the equation of what makes a society work, because in their minds, they do.
In the end, and with perhaps overly-broad brush strokes, it is my view that the predominantly corporately owned and controlled nation/state(s) and the rich have usurped the role of self-determination from the citizens, that this is a regressive and not a progressive direction for humans and it’s time to take it back – and that a broad-based, non-pigeon-holed citizenry which advocates for itself on at least the very basic human rights we have been discussing here is the only method I can see to get the job done.
Do I have a definitive plan? No. But I agree more than disagree with the feasibility of my paraphrased view of Edward Snowden’s take on it all: “They’re your elected representatives and your laws – don’t like them? Then change them.”
Yeah – I know, easier said than done. But doing nothing is not an option anymore if we want progress.
““There are many ways of going forward, but only one way of standing still.”
– Franklin D. Roosevelt
@barncat – This is the link from which I paraphrased Mr. Snowden (my thanks to keller below):
“A Conversation Across Cyberspace”
Edward Snowden and John Perry Barlow in conversation at The Personal Democracy Forum 2014
Great comments on this interchange. I totally agree that it’s crystal clear that our supposed advocates have abdicated their roles. And I agree 100% that we need to stop pigeon-holing and start cooperating on getting some basic reforms and progress accomplished. I don’t have a grand plan either; but am looking for ways to “make a little difference”.
In what sense is it true that “we are all in this together”? As a physical fact? Are we all in this US (or world) society together simply by virtue of being interconnected through our physical presence and activities? Ok, let’s grant that “fact” for now. The political application for it is limited. It doesn’t necessitate that we always think of ourselves as being “one people”. It doesn’t mean that every individual will consider their interests to be perfectly aligned in all cases (or ever) with those of “all”, the one universal group.
The truth is that every individual chooses to what degree, and how, she is “in it” with others. Many (or most) will choose to be “in it” fully only with their family and friends and associates, the smaller groups of individuals with whom we are more immediately connected. This choice does not deny the fact we agreed upon, it simply considers connectedness to be a matter of degrees. That’s quite reasonable. (Imo, no one really believes that the connection to their closest friends and associates is the same kind of connection they have with random strangers in a group of 300 million.) So, when making political decisions, in addition to considering the interests of the one larger group, we will also consider the interests of the (possibly many) smaller groups in which we participate (including local political groups like town, city, county, state). These interests will not always align. This is an existential political fact. We are not always going to pull in the same direction.
So, in reality, “we are truly all in this all together” only to the degree that we choose as individuals to think and act that way. It’s not a political fact, it’s a choice. And if one thinks it would be a better society if more people made that choice, then more people must be persuaded. To present the choice as a fact will not get it done.
“In what sense is it true that “we are all in this together”?”
@barncat – Honestly, if I haven’t explained my position well enough in my statement, please specifically point it out, rather than claiming that I am stating “facts” when I never used the word “fact” in the discourse in question.
To attempt to boil it down to my most basic premise: in my experience pigeon-holing groups leads to marginalizing voices and therefore minimizing the political impacts those voices can have in making effective change.
Even simpler: divide and conquer.
It in no way is an endorsement for ignoring the “fact” that different groups exist and that relationships are complicated – something that is self-evident, in my view.
“It is not a scientific proposition to determine that some cultures lack political power because they show nothing similar to what is found in our culture. It is instead the sign of a certain conceptual poverty.”
– Pierre Clastres, Society Against the State: Essays in Political Anthropology
You wrote, “The results of this ‘pragmatic ideology’ has been an abdication of the most fundamental of world views – one based on the idea that we are truly all in this all together…” I guess I got thrown by the word “truly”. I thought that by adding that word you were endorsing the idea as fact. My mistake. In my defense (and not at your expense), I think I was prone to the error because the idea is often stated as fact. That’s why I started out by granting the fact in a physical sense. So, even if what I wrote was not an apt reply to you, hopefully it wasn’t completely worthless.
However… you seem (to me) to be saying that the divisions are being imposed by the powerful. That previous quote continues, “… and that in effect, those in power are throwing out the ‘baby with the bathwater’ in their attempt to maintain the status quo.” (And now, “Even simpler: divide and conquer.”) If so, my reply was not entirely inapt, because I’m arguing that people are freely choosing the divisions – all the various little “squabbling” groups. It’s entirely natural. It would occur even if the powerful were not encouraging and abetting the divisions (if indeed they are).
And I can’t see any reason to accept your opinion that “we are all in this together” is the “most fundamental of world views”. Why is it more “fundamental” than saying that in all cases I will think of myself first, or myself and my family and friends first? Doesn’t each individual get to decide what is (most) fundamental? It’s hard for me to say because I’m not sure what meaning you intended with “(most) fundamental”, but perhaps the argument I made can simply be redirected at that opinion.
Bottom line… I haven’t found your comments on this matter persuasive. That’s my opinion, fwiw.
“you seem (to me) to be saying that the divisions are being imposed by the powerful.”
No. What I said was that divisions exist (self-evident) and will either be ineffective or less effective due to internal squabbling and/or because of the powerful using those divisions against them all (to divide and conquer).
Regarding the basic idea that you cannot understand that the only sentient species on planet earth that is capable of cooperation and collaboration isn’t somehow “all in this together” when we, collectively, have the power to either end the world as we know it through violence or neglect; or that we can save it using the capabilities we share is an attitude I simply cannot address for you.
““The huge modern heresy is to alter the human soul to fit modern social conditions, instead of altering modern social conditions to fit the human soul.”
– G.K. Chesterton
@ SillyPutty and Barncat:
There is an argument to made that both of you are making valid points. This is 2014 not 2008. Mr Greenwald would be the only one who could comment accurately as to how his perspective regarding ideology and pragmatism in relation to foreign policy might have changed in the past six years. My point here is that much has changed in the past six years, and that an analysis of national “foreign policy” does not encompass the scope of the 2014 expanded issue of governments conducting global mass surveillance in an effort to obtain and demand complete control of the citizenry of the world.
When control of all of humanity on planet Earth is the issue; it is important that each individual recognize that they have a choice to either defend or oppose that control. The problem is arising in the mounting of opposition — which has been severely hampered by continued discussion of differences in political factions that have roots in educational (History & Science) , religious, and economic programming and propaganda generated by the very group of elites who are seeking to control humanity. Given that the all world citizenry has thus been targeted for absolute control it follows that continued discussion of dichotomies will not produce unity in opposition to the elites. In that sense – excluding any possible spiritual interpretation- we must become as one united front to combat extinction of individual inalienable rights granted by virtue of birth.
Therefore; each individual must make a choice and that is simple one: unite together to oppose the elites or do nothing to support the elites. Unfortunately, this is easier said than done because too many buy the indoctrination and propaganda and do not question their own beliefs and/or ideology.
See: http://www.pakalertpress.com/2014/06/29/todays-oligarch-curtain-of-lies-theft-death-and-destruction-are-exposed-as-never-before/
However; that does not mean that the hope for unification in opposition should be abandoned because some folks can’t get over the hurdle of their individual or group ideologies. The groups can agree to disagree on several of the finer points and still unite to combat the larger issue which is economic domination and control by a handful of elites.
“Given that the all world citizenry has thus been targeted for absolute control it follows that continued discussion of dichotomies will not produce unity in opposition to the elites.
Very well stated, as is the rest of your argument.
In which we learn more about Tricky Dick, the Dragon Lady, and the sabotage of the 1968 Vietnam peace talks.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/yes-nixon-scuttled-the-vietnam-peace-talks-107623.html
And more interesting stuff about the 1974 impeachment crisis.
On point to this discussion, and TI, I suppose, as an example of what happens if secrets leak 45 years later and not when it might avert some problem.
“Who can be patient in extremes?” (Henry VI)
An extremely concise and realistic overview of our planet’s economical, political, and military situation at this time:
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2014/06/29/todays-oligarch-curtain-of-lies-theft-death-and-destruction-are-exposed-as-never-before/
Bottom line excerpt from same:
“We have at our collective disposal much more power than we even know at this relatively early stage of mindful resistance. As globally aware, ethically-motivated, humane and compassionate citizens of the world, we possess the opportunity to finally break free of the shackles that have stifled and enslaved humanity for far too long. Overwhelming similarities are currently binding us earthlings together as richly diverse members of the same humanoid family as well as like minded world citizen-activists committed to doing our collective active best in bringing about peace and justice to our ailing, only planet, before the handful of hugely outnumbered oligarchs destroy everything we hold most dear and sacred.”
Maybe we can agree to overlook the differences and concentrate on saving our planet.
How smartphones are hijacked by the spy agencies: http://goo.gl/VJ2kBs
Thanks, larry…
Also from the same site – doesn’t Glenn use Tails… maybe he should be EXTRA careful now…
http://thehackernews.com/2014/06/tails-operating-system-website-has-beed.html
One of the extra bonuses of the Snowden revelations is watching the people, institutions and organizations that bank on division now struggling to ply their trade. Loss of credibility is a bummer, especially when those people you’ve been turning against each other start realizing who is the real villain.
@ Debbie
No, it was a youtube video featuring Ann Bressington in Adelaide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sES6_OXPwOU
Also a podcast, The mind renewed by Michael Shaw.
http://themindrenewed.com/interviews/2013/269-int027
Sorry my posts seem to be going to random locations.
Great expectations:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/31/glenn-greenwald-leaving-guardian?commentpage=1
LOL. There were people in the comment section saying “I give it a year” and “I’ll believe it when I see it.”
More than anything, it shows what a huckster and used car salesman Greenbacks is. And his waggy little doggies just follow him and step in and do his fighting for him if anybody criticizes him. That Mona person really is a piece of work. Was she banned from here for making pro-Neonazi comments?
One question nobody seems to want to answer is why everybody is so invested in Greenbacks being a “leftist.” He’s nothing of the kind of course, but people apparently want to see themselves as leftists when in fact they are bourgeois capitalists. Look at Banjo, that nutjob is as pro-imperialist as they come. Look at “coram nobis,” he/she is a bourgeois capitalist.
It tells you all you need to know about Greenbacks by who tails him. And it’s mostly Ayn Rand diehards, capitalists, pro-oligarchs and imperialists.
As always, PutStarsByIt is exactly correct. And his statement can be proven by following my comments — none of them are listed under “Banjo” because I’ve never been “Banjo.” But you can find them under “Kitt” here at The Intercept, at Unclaimed Territory and at Salon. At The Guardian my comments can be found under CarsonK.
You’ll see how often and always I’ve supported the wars and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. You’ll see how I was vehemently supporting the rhetoric flying around to bomb Syria, bomb Iran, bomb Libya, bomb Pakistan, Bomb Yemen, and my support for Israel Apartheid…”The Whole World is a Battlefield!” You can read me expressing all of that over and over again for the last decade. Because, as PSBI has written, I am “as pro-imperialist as they come.” Happy hunting!
CarsonK at the Guardian? That’s hilarious. It’s fairly gutless to change your posting name (IMO) – but that’s not surprising for you…..Carson. I guess you finally took your ball and went home though. Thanks for the peace of mind.
Actually, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. I registered at The Guardian long, long before Glenn was ever there. I registered as “Kitt,” but the robot told me that that user name had already been taken. So I wanted to make up a name that I figured I’d easily recall for later use, since I wasn’t expecting to revisit The Guardian very regularly. So I chose CarsonK…as in Kit Carson and using my first name initial on the end. When Glenn came to the Guardian that was still my user name, of course. And I informed anyone and everyone who was familiar with my “Kitt” user name that it was me.
Since this is the first time that I’ve addressed you since informed you that I would no longer address you or mention you, I’ll conclude this conversation to you with a well deserved, Fuck You CraigSummers.
I’ll resume my former non-addressing rule now.
“…….Actually, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. I registered at The Guardian long, long before Glenn was ever there. I registered as “Kitt,” but the robot told me that that user name had already been taken. So I wanted to make up a name that I figured I’d easily recall for later use, since I wasn’t expecting to revisit The Guardian very regularly. So I chose CarsonK…..”
That’s reasonable. As I remember, you took things far too personally at the Guardian. Here at the Intercept, I had no idea that you were Carson. It might have saved me from wasting my time.
“…….Fuck You CraigSummers……”
Remarkably similar to much of your political commentary at the Guardian (as was the case with so many Glennbots, in fact).
Thanks.
You voted for Obby, by your own admission. That makes you a capitalist imperialist. Leftists don’t participate in “electoral” politics because it’s a sham.
You’re not the arbitrator of who is and is not a “leftist” and you are sure as hell not the be all to end all of what is the definition of a “leftist.” Besides, what are you anyway, besides a bloviating shit stirrer?
But aside from that I’ve noticed that you always leave the, “You voted for Obby!” smear dangling; no doubt because you’re hoping that readers who are unfortunate enough to be accosted by your “comments” will assume that the person in question “voted for Obby” in 2012 as well as 2008.
Fact is I voted for Obama in November of 2008. That was nearly 6 years ago. And if you were to admit that you baldly lied about my “imperialist” positions, which is proven by my years of posts that I encouraged readers to review, you’d see that I’ve been exposing him for the warmongering, thieving liar that he is since the first weeks after he came into office. But as all of my past comments will prove, I not only didn’t vote for him in 2012, or encourage anyone else to vote for him in 2012, but I didn’t vote for anyone in the National election. I was a part of “Boycott the 2012 Presidential Election” campaign.
I know you’re a waste of my time, but I thought a few facts from me for any interested readers might be worth my time, so that’s why I posted this comment. You’ve plenty of enough damage to yourself without my help.
Free encrypted email service. Donation requested. https://www.protonmail.ch
video: http://goo.gl/t94EN7
Merkel effect 2.0: The NSA hacked the new Cryptophone of Angela Merkel – easily.
„Die technischen Veränderungen der Handys beeinträchtigen unsere Arbeit nicht.“/
“”The technical changes of mobile phones do not affect our work.”
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/nach-abhoerskandal-nsa-soll-auch-bei-merkels-neuem-handy-mitlauschen-13016452.html
It does not mean that the NSA spy on Angela Merkel but it may mean…
You know what the most depressing part is, for me at least?
Greenwald used to be as a voice for the sane left. Even if no other pundit would, Greenwald was there to call out malfeasance from our side. He was there to call our Obama and praise Paul, both before I was willing. He had running commentaries on a huge range of issues, and I was constantly quoting him and using his arguments. A lot of minds were opened on a variety of issues. And now it’s gone.
Now, I keep hearing vague promises of future revelations and commentary. But, in all honesty, I haven’t been seeing it. I’m not sure how these documents could possibly take up so many man-hours, as all you guys seem to be releasing is a few Powerpoint slides every few months, and the “amazing” revelation that yet another country is helping or being spied on. In all fairness, and while I agree that the citizens have a right to know and it is news in that country, how is it even news in the US that Denmark is helping us spy? Yeah, all our allies are, apparently. You guys said as much in the beginning, remember?
I’m just trying to understand what’s happening. TI says that Greenwald will be posting and that more revelations are coming, then a few opinion posts (not one article written by Greenwald exclusively since MARCH; I thought you couldn’t stop him from blogging?!) and a lot of frankly back page material from Gallagher (no offense; back pages are important.) In fact, Gallagher seems to be your main writer, which is certainly not how this website was originally billed–an all-star lineup, I’d say.
Oh, and I’m sorry if you’ve answered all this on Twitter, but Twitter is dumb. Use this website. You know, the really expensive one that was supposed to be a whole new media enterprise, not some infrequently updated backwater blog.
I’m sorry. I’m getting frustrated.
I remember a time when Greenwald argued that it was unacceptable for a media outlet to sit on information for over a year. It feels really long ago.
Maybe Marcy Wheeler will give us more information. What kinds of politics does Marcy have?
She recently penned a piece for Cato. She’s a capitalist and likely a libertarian. In other words, useless to the working class. I wouldn’t look to “Marcy Wheeler” to save anything. I suspect greed played a role in her taking the gig at this website, then she got heat for not responding to articles and comments about Omidyar’s Ukraine involvement, and she up and bailed. In other words, she’s intellectually dishonest and lazy.
You obviously are under the impression that you can write anything you want about something that you know nothing at all about, and then finish with a conclusion all based on the horse shit you made up. The essence of the infamous Straw Man.
quote”In other words, she’s intellectually dishonest and lazy.”unquote
Meanwhile, Ms emptywheel runs two to three posts per day on her blog analyzing any number of things, and has a 17k following on her feeds. Meanwhile, PutStarsbyit…does nothing but flap his lips here. Fuckoff halfwit.
This of course is the primary purpose of a political pundit – to save people the trouble of thinking for themselves. Since Greenwald stopped writing, I have had to spend an extra 10 minutes a day just thinking. At first I begrudged the wasted time, as I could have used that 10 minutes of extra sleep. But after a while, I found that thinking can actually be an enjoyable hobby and that time devoted to it may be ‘wasted’ in a strict sense but it has helped me to feel more self-reliant and independent – sort of like cooking my own meals. My anger at being forced to think has gradually dissipated and I’m now totally comfortable with it.
So I hope my own experience can serve to show that sometimes even the most unwelcome changes have a way of resolving themselves over time.
We place too much emphasis on ‘heroes’ who all have feet of clay and don’t walk on water. It’s always best to take the writings of others with some salt and not place too much emphasis on defending those ideas as though a holy relic. Exceptionalism should be paired with autonomy.
“Trust but verify” was a canard that developed into a healthy skepticism.
I would take your last assertion and reverse it, Ben. It’s far more likely that healthy skepticism developed the canard.
Additionally, to atheists there are only religious relics and none of them are “holy.”
But I could not agree more that, “It’s always best to take the writings of others with some salt…”
I take your point on ‘verify’, but St Ronaldus had absolutely no trust for the Soviet Leadership, so it was a false positive to say so. However, over the years it has been straightened from it’s former corkscrew he created into something less disingenuous.
I like the cut of your snark, Montecarlo; where’s the damned “Fave” button…?
Agreed.
Montecarlo = Benito Mussolini? No matter. Interesting perspectives, regardless.
Good thinking, Monte. Change can be good … btw, you can microwave Ramon noodles in 29 seconds which would free-up 9 minutes and 31 seconds of your time for a more independent investigation of the truth about these matters. After all, you are responsible for the consequences of your decisions … and nobody wants to be on the wsoh.
*like a younger Grimm Greenwald is responsible for his acquiescence, if not vocal support, for the Iraq war, Afghanistan and the whole big Mid-East Crazy … before he changed his mind and came to his senses. note. Iirc, this was before Grimm became a ‘pundit’, and was most likely relying on people like Sullivan & crew to form the basis of his opinions … something I think which they both have now come to deeply regret.
Since Greenwald stopped writing, I have had to spend an extra 10 minutes a day just thinking.
Valid enough point, although I might say that some of us followed Greenwald because our own training and experience — in my case, in law and the military — coincided with what he was saying. But, yes, “thinking” helps but thinking needs fresh information from time to time. Glenn can do that, used to do that. We can’t. We don’t have his trove, for one thing, nor his sources.
Can’t what? Think?
Why run the Cuisinart if you don’t have fresh material?
I don’t understand why GG doesn’t write an opinion paragraph or so every few days on some political topic du jour just to keep the site more active. He seems to have time to tweet. Why couldn’t he expand his opinion tweets into paragraphs and place them here? If this blog doesn’t get more active and informative, it will fail.
Glenn used to write something every couple of days or so on Salon — not necessarily fresh scoops but something where he’d wax wroth on some hypocrisy in gov’t or the news media, or provide a roundup of hyperlinked stories.
Don’t know what’s happened.
They are doing well with the timing of articles. The theory of marginal utility dictates that each new article draws proportionately fewer readers. So the optimum news site is one which publishes no articles. Every article after that is just an exercise in diminishing returns.
I have fled from websites where the sheer number of articles was overwhelming. Here I can rest and recover from the stress induced by information overload. This site is a welcome rest stop on the autobahn of the internet.
Otoh, the theory of economies of scale would suggest the larger a news org. is, the more efficient (and productive) its news publications?
*(shrug) Like coram, don’t know what’s happened (but I do know time waits for no man.). Specialization? Excessive attention to detail? Idk. Hell bells, now they’ve banned Mona BTL! and everybody knows (esp. Greenwald.) comments are at least half the fucking fun . .. so I guess it’s root hog or die for the rest of us?
ps. “I’m going where the sun keeps shining,
through the pouring rain.
Going where the weather suits my cloths.
Banking off of the n.e. wind, sailing on a summer breeze.
Skipping over the ocean like a stone.”
Mona was a crapflooder and couldn’t let go of certain topics.
Mona was such a crapflooder, and wouldn’t let go of certain topics either.
coram, I recently watched a video about Agenda 21. Would you be kind enough to give me your thoughts on the topic please?
Was it on PBS?
Never heard about it till you mentioned it; I’d be curious about the video because it’s an otherwise-obscure matter, like, say, Bretton Woods, that might draw conspiracy theories.
I can tell you all about Timeline 191, however.
Great. 2,640,000 returns on Google for “Agenda 21″ field entered in quotes. New York Times, Daily Beast, American Thinker, Esquire,…. A notorious 1992 U.N. resolution on sustainability that you’d never heard about.
You go trivially drop Glenn Beck into it.
http://usactionnews.com/2012/09/global-governance-agenda-21-and-environmental-piracy/
These obscure things usually don’t come up unless they’re a concern of very particularist experts — academics, say — or conspiracy theorists like Glenn Beck. I don’t remember Agenda 21 coming up in my IHL studies or int’l law reading.
I suppose we could also have arguments about the Cloward-Piven strategy or the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922, but to what purpose?
Glenn Beck is a shock jock, not a conspiracy theorist. But you picked up Cloward-Piven from somewhere; that’s not standard IHL/IL fare.
This it for Coram – there was no reply button to your post in reply to this.
I certainly enjoy your posts and respect your point of view a lot. You really add a lot here. But I was disappointed in your saying a topic would draw “conspiracy theories.”
That kind of language , along with “tin-foil hatter” is just too often used to marginalize anyone who dares to question “official” theories. I know that there are some individuals and groups really on the fringe but just to lump everyone all together I don’t think is right. I am skeptical of MSM, and have looked at various alternative sites. It’s good to be skeptical there, too.
I think of myself as a questioner. In fact, I’m guessing an individual landed here because he or she started questioning something.
I’m sorry the Agenda 21 topic didn’t interest you(I know little about it myself)…but it might be better to express things differently.
I suppose it’s no more obscure than the Trade In Services Agreement I posted about earlier. Bit disappointing, nobody took alarm at that, but I suppose at this point in the thread we’re all rummaging.
See question below, I think.
That’s why the site has writers.
Obama voters, you have to admit, are played like fiddles.
Yes, although such playing needs a damned good fiddle player, and a good arrangement, to make it work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCsF01cB4SQ
Did you know that Glenn Greenwald is on an extensive book tour? That he has been on the TV machine dozens of times in the last few weeks explaining to many people who never have access to an honest hard working reporter with a brain just how fucked up and corrupt our government and media are?
Did you know that if one piece of poorly-vetted reporting comes out of this site that it will outweigh all the fucked up lying propaganda and war mongering off the mass media, and instantly be a weeks long sensation for all the media whores and lap dogs who have been so wrong for so long?
Your concern seems small-minded next to that. But by all means, play along with all the whiners, ankle biters, shit-stirrers, concern trolls, serious “reporters”, aimless ramblers, shrieking hate-mongers, and sock puppets in Greenwald’s orbit. Perhaps they should all kick loose and find something more to their liking elsewhere instead of clogging up a message board they don’t like with such crap? Oh…. wait….that’s the point, isn’t it? I hope they are not being paid too much, cause they really suck at their jobs. The truth will not be stopped no matter what pathetic and childish methods they employ. There probably are some genuine critiques to be heard of the work here, but they are most certainly drowned out by the crap-flooders.
This was a response to Lylo above.
In the short time that I was able to speak with Glenn at his book tour stop in San Francisco on the 18th of June he himself expressed frustration with how difficult it has been to complete the next batch of stories and get them published. He told me that the next batch (Apparently there is more than one currently in the hopper) is almost completed and should, hopefully, be coming out in about three days. Clearly that goal or hope was delayed and thwarted by several days now. I see no point in guessing what the holdups have been, since I have no idea. Although one cause of a setback was probably the family emergency he informed readers about, which resulted in him having to miss at least one speaking engagement. I’m supposing that eventually Glenn will write about and speak about some of what has caused the setbacks in trying to get this stuff published.
I’m guessing he didn’t want to show his face at Socialism 14 because he now works for a neoliberal billionnaire oligarch who helped overthrow a sovereign country and apparently supported the Neonazi turnover in India. I don’t happen to believe there’s a whole lot of “leftism” going on Social14 but many of them are probably to the left of Greenbacks since he IS a neoliberal capitalist. Maybe he didn’t want to risk having to take questions in an open forum about his questionable ties to a billionnaire, his questionable tactics in “releasing” public documents, and his use of public documents for personal gain. LIke Obama, he probably would have been comfortable with scripted questions, though.
And nobody gives two shits whether you talked to Greenbacks in San Francisco. Your bragging about talking to him just makes you look like the capitalist oligarch supporting tool that you are.
I don’t know what “nobody gives two shits about” or not, but I do know that a comment based on an actual real world conversation, which had to do with what these conversations on this board have been about, is unquestionably more useful than spewing made up hog wash invented out of whole cloth…which is what you can be seen doing constantly.
And since your hobby horse is trashing Greenwald, why would you consider noting a conversation with Greenwald as “bragging?” That doesn’t make sense.
Very well, and it’s good that we have this glimpse of him in real life. This still suggests, however, that (1) the stories in the pipeline are Snowden material and nothing else and (2) it’s up to Glenn to complete them or at least vet them. I still wonder if TI can work on other material, if only after the Snowden material runs out, and what the dozen+ other faces on TI’s Staff page are/will be doing.
While it reasonably does “suggest” all of that, I/we just don’t know. That’s as far as I got with the conversation. Didn’t have time to ask him about the other writers, or if his time spent traveling for and attending to the book tour has been playing a substantial part in the void of published articles. I gathered that it was one of several reasons but that is an assumption by me, since he didn’t specify.
My guess is that the Document stories will resume with a vengeance but, same as you, I really do want to know what some of the other writers will be doing, and how soon. I think much depends on completion of making this website fully functional. So why that hasn’t happened yet is another matter but related, of course.
Greenbacks was never a leftist to begin with. He’s a political opportunist. All you have to do is look at the trajectory of his work over the years. Pro Bush, pro Iraq invasion, anti-Chavez, anti-Castro, pro-Republican congresspeople who “apologize” for their positions, pro-Paul, and then moving on we come to pro-Dem, pro-Zionist Democratics, pro “faux pwogs” like Warren, Goodman, Grayson, et al.
All while endorsing the NSA (“they need to spy on our real enemies!:”), working for a billionnaire capitalist, lauding fake progressives like Goodman, ad nauseam, supporting rulings like Citizens United which is some of the worst legislation in years in kneecapping the working class and maintaining capital ownership and control.
He’s an OPPORTUNIST. He has consistently moved where his audience takes him and no further. Whether he believes what he’s telling you is a different story. The things he says even today indicate he’s a pro-imperialist capitalist though. If you can’t see that based on what he says and who he supports, then you’re probably just willfully ignorant. You want to “tabula rassa” the guy and make him what you want him to be. Fantasize his “leftism.” T
Do you think you’re convincing anyone, or are you just speaking to yourself?
Obama is seeking $2 billion to give to Guatemalans and Hondurans to get them across Mexico into the US:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/29/us/obama-to-seek-funds-to-stem-border-crossings-and-speed-deportations.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpSum&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
After reading a few of your posts Debbie I must say your dedication to the principle of rigorous intellectual honesty is as inspiring as it is refreshing.
@Darius..
This is the point of the conversation where you need to validate the “intellectual honesty” of this quote;
as it relates to the article in question.
Much Appreciated..
Yep. It’s freaky that a person can be so driven by dishonesty that they not only take no precautions to not be caught in their dishonesty, but that they themselves make certain that they are caught in their dishonesty by pretending to quote X while at the same time linking to X, which clearly has no such quote and does not even hint at anything at all that the quote states.
Watch for developments coming up in Germany…
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/06/26/nsa-whistleblowers-to-testify-before-german-parliamentary-committee-in-july/
Just in time for the 4th of July Fireworks!
Thanks for posting.
Thanks, Lyra1 –
Glad to know the links are helpful. Just trying to do my part.
Thanks, Lyra1 –
Glad to know that the links are helpful. Just trying to do my part.
Shouldn’t let the centennial go by unremarked, shall we?
– – –
ANNOUNCER: … the Nightly NewsHour for June 28, 1914. The NewsHour is made possible by the Carnegie Endowment for Labor Relations; by the George Armstrong Custer Foundation for Advanced Military Studies; by the Gilded Age; and by viewers like you! Thank you!
JUDY WOODRUFF: … the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo today. For analysis we have the late Emperor Napoleon III of France, now a partner at the Bland Corporation, and the late Judah P. Benjamin, former secretary of state of the former Confederate States of America and now a fellow at the Plato Institute in Washington. Welcome, gentlemen.
MAX: Thank you, Judy.
JUDY: So, a lone gunman and the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne.
BEN: Actually, the Austro-Hungarians’ Imperial Security Agency, through its surveillance of communications in and outside their territory, now think that the gunman, Gavrilo Princip, wasn’t acting alone.
MAX: There was also the fellow who threw that bomb at Ferdinand’s motorcade when he entered the city, and another gunman arrested further along the route – and at least three other would-be assassins and maybe a dozen other conspirators.
BEN: Traced back to the Black Hand organization in Belgrade.
MAX: So, ISA’s surveillance was pretty thorough.
BEN: If you ignore the fact that the Archduke is dead.
MAX: Well, you can’t have everything.
JUDY: The surveillance was supposed to keep Austria safe from terrorism.
BEN: Well, if you have to read through a lot of telegrams, and screen everybody coming across the borders, it gets kind of messy.
JUDY: Well, now what?
MAX: The Austrian government thinks Serbian Army intelligence was behind the Black Hand. Foreign Minister Berchtold is preparing an ultimatum that will mean Austria will begin Operation Serbian Freedom in about 3 weeks.
BEN: They don’t have sufficient artillery or reserves, says Field Marshal Conrad, their chief-of-staff.
MAX: “You go to war with the army you have,” as Don Rumsfeld said.
BEN: It also means Austria picks a fight with Russia.
MAX: Oh, well. They may have been mixed up in this anyway. Shame about their ambassador to Belgrade, dropping dead of a heart attack the same day. But, as you well know, Ben, your Confederacy decided it was a good time to fight after an incident like this.
BEN: And your Napoleon III thought that was a good time to invade Mexico. With you as the figurehead.
JUDY: But what will come of all this?
BEN: Who knows? Maybe, in a hundred years, they’ll be a lot wiser, you’d think.
JUDY: We now turn to the crisis over Irish Home Rule. For that we have Gwen Ifill in London. Gwen?
GWEN: Thank you, Judy. The Prime Minister’s office says that the matter can be settled without a civil war in Ireland …
Erratum: Napoleon III wasn’t a panelist on this show. It should read, ” … the late Emperor Maximilian of Mexico, now a fellow at the Brooktrout Institute … ”
Now back to our pledge break.
Did Greenbacks ever retract this hateful verbal diarrhea?
I don’t believe that was written by “Greenbacks,” I think it was Glenn Greenwald.
This was before he read Noam Chomsky, before he dispensed with American propaganda and became a critic of it. He discusses his emergence from the fog of US jingoism in the introduction to one of his earlier books.
“She turned me into a newt.” (Pause) “I got better!”
You don’t “criticize power” by encouraging people to vote for Obama (ask Banjo about that one).
You don’t “criticize power” by saying that you think the NSA should remain intact it just needs a little haircut around the edges, but the ruling class can continue going on deciding who to spy on. You don’t “criticize power” by legitimizing the Constitution with bullshit arguments that Citizens United is a legitimate ruling and shouldn’t be overturned. You also don’t “criticize power” by endorsing political candidates, spokespeople, and business owners who benefit from power: Kucinich, Feingold, Amy Goodman, Pierre Omidyar (also supports Neonazis), Elizabeth Warren, that lame dude from SoCal who is running as a “progressive” congressman, and other bourgeois individuals.
Greenbacks has no credibility, but he does have jowls. Passing himself off as some kind of radical is just lame. It’s also despicable. There is no true leftist or radical who would align with an imperialist like Greenbacks.
I also want to know if he retracted his ugly remarks about Chavistas. Did he actually apologize for calling them “stragglers” and hippes? That’s not only ignorant, it’s insulting. Did he ever apologize for it?
No, didn’t think so.
quote”Did Greenbacks ever retract this hateful verbal diarrhea?”unquote
Says the Master Lieutenant of Hateful Verbal Diarrhea while sitting at the Milprop Unit 9, station 13 keyboard.
http://www.storyleak.com/us-military-caught-social-media-running-mass-propaganda-accounts/
Are you implying that Venezuela is in some way socialist? Glenn Greenwald wasn’t fooled by that transparent charade. From Confusion about Class
So the most socialist nation in the world, contrary to popular belief, is the United States – where workers can use their savings to buy shares and become capitalists themselves. Is not the ownership of the means of production by the workers (not the state) the very definition of socialism? So Glenn Greenwald was correct to attack the pseudo-socialism of Chavez and to defend the true socialism of Bush.
http://www.whatonearthishappening.com/podcast
#137
Meanwhile, back at Diego Garcia …
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/28/uk-rendition-flights-diego-garcia
Watch this space.
Good link, Coram. The story of the depopulation of Diego Garcia is shameful. There’s a 60 MInutes video about it on the net. Here’s a link with a verbal rundown. It draws from Mr. Pilger who did a documentary on it. Humans and pets should never be treated so brutally.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/peter-presland/chagos-islands-40-years-on-remain-black-mark-on-britain
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/06/21/Illegal-Immigrants-Hopping-Death-Train-to-US-Hoping-for-Amnesty
Egged on by Valerie Jarrett and Joe Biden.
_”US Releases Immigrant Families, Won’t Say How Many“_
“The Obama administration has released into the U.S. an untold number of immigrant families caught traveling illegally from Central America in recent months — and although the government knows how many it’s released, it won’t say publicly.”
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/us-releases-immigrant-families-24269764
Won’t say how many. Your progressive leftist government won’t say.
Meanwhile, in the real world:
Abdullah Al-Arian @anhistorian: Thank you @ggreenwald for always speaking out and for the writing you did on this: http://www.salon.com/2012/04/16/personalizing_civil_liberties_abuses/
Federal Court Dismisses All Charges Against Dr. Sami Al-Arian
He’s a neoliberal capitalist. Did you want to “thank him” for the writing he did celebrating Citizens United? How about when he disparaged pro-Chavista anti-Bush protesters and called them dirty hippies? Or maybe you’d like to celebrate that he pushes Amy Goodman, Elizabeth Warren, and other imperialist and zionist mouthpieces.
We’ve determined we can use you best serving our state diners in the southeast part of town, 2nd shift. The agency just doesn’t think you’re qualified for other work at this time.
Good luck obtaining, uh, capital to do what you want to do.
Show us where Greenwald has “celebrated” Citizens United. You won’t be able to. You can start looking here if you want, that was his first statement on the decision.
“The case, Citizens United v. FEC, presents some very difficult free speech questions, and I’m deeply ambivalent about the court’s ruling. [] I believe that corporate influence over our political process is easily one of the top sicknesses afflicting our political culture. But there are also very real First Amendment interests implicated by laws which bar entities from spending money to express political viewpoints.”
“I tend to take a more absolutist view of the First Amendment than many people, but laws which prohibit organized groups of people — which is what corporations are — from expressing political views goes right to the heart of free speech guarantees no matter how the First Amendment is understood.”
Btw, considering that I quoted your point about Greenwald being just a “blogger” and not an “actual journo”, your reply to me was a non sequitur. But let’s just forget about that, it’s too ridiculous. Let’s see how you defend your statement about Citizens United.
(“Greenwald has received awards including the first Izzy Award for independent journalism, in 2009, and the 2010 Online Journalism Award for Best Commentary.[] The [NSA] series on which Greenwald worked, along with others, won the 2014 Pulitzer Prize for Public Service. His NSA reporting has won numerous other awards around the world, including top investigative journalism prizes from the George Polk Award for National Security Reporting, the 2013 Online Journalism Awards, the Esso Award for Excellence in Reporting in Brazil for his articles in O Globo on NSA mass surveillance of Brazilians (becoming the first foreigner to win the award), the 2013 Libertad de Expresion Internacional award from Argentinian magazine Perfil, and the 2013 Pioneer Award from the Electronic Frontier Foundation.” ~Wikipedia)
He supports Citizens United. That’s not a secret. He also supports the NSA, he’s already said that he thinks it’s fine to use the NSA to go after the “real” terrorists and has no problems with the imperialists deciding who that might be. He said the NSA just needs to be more controlled or reined in, but not eliminated.
He’s an imperialist capitalist hack.
What the Supreme Court Got Right?
You are debating whether Greenbacks is “ambivalent” about CU and you link us to a blog post entitled “What the Supreme Court Got Right?”
What part of bourgeois capitalist apologist don’t you understand?
It does seem that you are suffering from an exceptionally low level of reading comprehension ability. Barncat wasn’t debating if Glenn is ambivalent. In the very post that you yourself mentioned that Barncat had linked to, it was Glenn himself who wrote, “I am deeply ambivalent about the court’s ruling.” Since you didn’t understand that simple sentence, the odds are pretty high that you didn’t understand anything else that was spelled out in the article.
He doesn’t sound very “ambivalent” in this video. Are you fucking kidding? He’s actually throwing out suggestions that changes should be attempted to the political process while keeping CU intact. It’s one huge tap dance. That First Amendment absolutist bullshit is in keeping with protecting and speaking for the state, though.
Capitalist imperialist hack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHr0wiobav4
Snowden-documents show no evidence for global mass surveillance
http://electrospaces.blogspot.com/2014/06/snowden-documents-show-no-evidence-for.html
Many around here will undoubtedly disagree but it has some nice analysis.
No evidence for global mass surveillance. right.
http://www.storyleak.com/us-military-caught-social-media-running-mass-propaganda-accounts/
Nate is a Government bot or troll, he has posted the Government view as truth no 3-5 time on this thread
Keep up the good work, people. Expose it all. It’s the only way we’ll ever get rid of this bullshit, man…,
It is like red wine – it does get better with age?! ;-)
Greenbacks is part of the bullshit. Plenty of writers are calling him out on his lack of credibility, his right-wing libertarian capitalist positions, and his suck-up to power, including taking money from an oligarch who sunk money into overthrowing a sovereign country and supports right wing neonazi political movements.
So yeah the bullshit needs to be gotten rid of.
Nazi stands for Nationalsozialismus, or National Socialism. You’d be as hard pressed to find right wingers wanting to show up to participate in socialism as you would to count on leftists joining the Tee-Partei.
But it doesn’t stop chastened leftists from trying to also scrub away Obama’s leftism for the annals of history.
(BTW, leftists love money. Ask any Cambridge or UWS or Park Slope resident.)
Looking forward to your wading in here deeper in the future, my ol’ HP friend, displaying your knacks for both insightful opinions and commentary on a host of subjects – as well as ignoring weak-ass trolling, paid or otherwise. Here’s to hoping FirstLook becomes as addictive as HuffPost was from ’05 through ’08. (I haven’t even visited there in 6+ mos…)
The comment section of this website is less coherent than, and just as paranoid as that of Infowars. Greenbacks and Jones are two sides of the same paranoia-for-profit coin.
An international trial with all international powers for whistleblowers?
“A Conversation Accross Cyberspace”
Edward Snowden and John Perry Barlow in conversation at Personal Democracy Forum 2014.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QrZlHFgxA0
Great post.
Thanks.
Most whistleblowers are marginalized and killed. They don’t win awards or have “conversations” at “Personal Democracy” forums. Can’t this clown just stay home and continue watching The Wire?
An international trial with all international powers for whistleblowers?
Edward Snowden’s message to Courage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMvfoVaiteE
“A Conversation Accross Cyberspace”
Edward Snowden and John Perry Barlow in conversation at Personal Democracy Forum 2014.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QrZlHFgxA0
Wow, look who the “radical” EFF is teaming up with.
http://pando.com/2014/06/27/why-are-greenpeace-and-the-eff-working-with-extremists-who-want-to-nullify-welfare-programs-and-the-epa/
The firing of Sirota and Rall seems to have had the desired effect of reminding the writers at Pando who butters their bread – the tech companies who are in bed with the NSA. So it’s hardly surprising they now seek to discredit the groups who are protesting against the NSA. You shouldn’t fall for such transparent tactics.
I guess we’ll have to see but I basically only read the San Francisco based stuff since I live here. They’ve been pretty critical of Google and other tech companies. They also ran the pieces about Omidyar’s donations to help overthrow Ukraine and his donations to the Neonazi guy in India. I know Carr and Ames are not pro-Greenbacks. Shit, I’m not pro-Greenbacks and I don’t think any self-respecting leftist would be), so I have no problem with them reporting on Omidyar, his revolving door at the White House, and Greenbacks’ suck up to power.
You’re a libertarian though right? You’re like one of those Ayn Randian assholes who thinks the poor should just work for free and we should be abolishing government completely?
You work and do what you want to do. You have opportunity in this country to do things that citizens of no other nation have.
Instead you’re developmentally arrested, and want to be dependent on the idea that someone should meet your petulant demands, then spoon feed you baby food obtained from the fruit of someone else’s labor under penalty of state violence when you feel all your wants are not as completely met as the Joneses.
Take responsibility for your own life, your own temple. Understand that you’re not, and never will be, and shouldn’t necessarily be as materially, physically equal to anyone else.
You are simply speculating. Some people are fond of applying political labels to others and then cheering or jeering them on that basis. Political parties use dogma to enforce uniformity, which is useful for mobilizing people towards some common purpose but it discourages any original thought. Therefore I personally have little use for it.
” Some people are fond of applying political labels to others and then cheering or jeering them on that basis. Political parties use dogma to enforce uniformity, which is useful for mobilizing people towards some common purpose but it discourages any original thought. Therefore I personally have little use for it.”
Very well said – and the divisiveness caused by the compartmentalization of individuals into “groups” is one of the largest factors frustrating progressive policies and therefore change.
And for clarification, by progressive I mean not the status-quo with regards to civil liberties; access to our own government; and the uniform rule of law, among other things.
FreedomWorks is also in that coalition. Freedomworks is a vile organization, but that’s how coalitions are generally built on key issues. Personally, I’d be more than reluctant to include, and would not likely be convinced to include, Freedomworks in any coalition, but that’s one man’s opinion. While there might be an argument to be made for including certain organizations into a coalition, the following isn’t it:
blockquote>And if I have to pick between the government reading my email and the erosion of eighty years of social welfare programs, infrastructure improvements, and civil rights legislation, I’ll take the former.–David Holmes of Pando
The author should be embarrassed to have written such transparent, scare mongering baby talk. I don’t know the background of David Holmes writing history at Pando or elsewhere, but if he thinks that kind of pablum will sell well with anyone but the most phony agenda driven — such as someone who thinks writing “greenbacks” is clever or convincing — then he’s being foolish.
Banjo, didn’t you say you paid $$ to see EFF? What a tool. But hey, #standingovation !!!
No, I didn’t say that I paid to see EFF. I said I went to Glenn’s talk in San Francisco at the Nourse Theater. I paid 4 dollars and 50 cents to attend. Rainey Reitman of EFF introduced Glenn. There is nothing in my comment that you are replying to that indicates that I have any problem with EFF. If you weren’t such a shameless “tool” you would admit that and cease continuing to make an ass of yourself pretending otherwise.
You’re a bourgeois liberal, just admit it and stop trying to pretend you’re some kind of radical, Banjo. You support Neonazis, you support oligarchs, you support bourgeois institutions.
The poor are wearing different outfits every day and throbbing neighborhoods with high amplitude ULF out of crossover curcuit driven trunk speakers and smoking in my doorways.
Does Greenbacks still insist he is in “danger.” LOL! What a liar.
You know, Glenn actually does address the questions and accusations that you take so much joy in pretending that he doesn’t address, or that he is a liar about. You could save yourself from looking the constant dishonest troll if you would just do minimal research. But I see that you’ve chosen again to just spit and sputter just for the sake of spitting and sputtering.
There was good reason for Glenn to be concerned about returning, and he often addressed why that was the case. After the Polk Award was announced he specifically addressed why he then became almost certain that he would return.
No need for me to explain any further:
Glenn Greenwald suggests he is likely to return to accept the Polk
Hello?
In case anyone missed this…
http://www.onefootinberlin.com/2014/06/snowden-awarded-berlins-prize-for-civil.html
The blog post gives a pretty good overview of the award. Don’t know how good the video is, though. The one I was on youtube had pretty poor sound quality.
Well deserved.
Thanks for posting feline16.
If this posts, shenebraskan is a goddess.
Dear Zelda,
Just checking in. If memory serves me, the Kidz have written a full three new articles here this month. If they work real hard on the Linotype Machine, they might be able to crank out one more by month end.
Losing Faith
from Truth or Consequences………..
Perhaps you missed the ‘tense disagreement’ Shep Smith got into with Glenn Greenwald in which Glenn pointed out the NSA is exerting a lot of pressure on The Intercept not to publish the story they next intend.
If you did, here it is:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/23/shep-smith-glenn-greenwald-fox-news_n_5523275.html
Oh please. Why would Greenbacks care whether the NSA exerts pressure? He keeps saying they publish “in spite of” NSA disagreeing with what they print. So which is it?
It’s also obvious that Greenbacks is in no physical danger from any of this, he’s on major network television!
BTW, it looks like Greenbacks’ prosperity is getting the best of him – he could stand to hit the treadmill and count his calories.
I was thinking they are covering all the possible legal angles that might be used by the establishment to trip them up if they hurried.
I don’t know what to say about your insulting his physical appearance; I do that myself about people (later wishing I hadn’t), but only when I deeply disrespect someone, deducing they could do better because I ‘know’ they’re smart enough to do right, but won’t, and I want something to criticize that could induce immediate shame. I don’t recommend that sort of thinking. He looks okay to me, FWIW.
Hello?
Greenbacks works for a 250$ million enterprise and his boss has revolving door access at the White House. Why would they be wetting the bed about “legal angles.”
Greenbacks’ comments about Carr firing Sirota and Rall were disgusting. Greenbacks is a narcissistic bore. A narcissistic imperialist bore.
The camera picks up everything, having a double chin isn’t doing him any favors. Also looks like he has a paunch. Just saying if he wants to be a rock star, something’s not working. Hit the gym dude. Aren’t you staying in posh hotels with gyms?
Either one has the brass balls necessary to be an honest, intrepid reporter, or he doesn’t. I really liked this website when it began. Especially the “concept”. For someone to publish the truth, is conceptually refreshing. I wholeheartedly supported Glenn Greenwald, and I further think that Edward Snowden was a hero. Now, we are getting to the point of “too little, too late”.
I look at things through a business lens. Everyone knows that although timing is everything, nothing kills a deal quicker than time. No. I did not see the Shep Smith interview, nor do I care to. Shep Smith is an idiot. Just another teleprompter reader. If this website were newsprint, it would be a foot deep in a Parakeet cage.
The fact is, I am pretty far to the right. I really believed in Glenn Greenwald, and what he was purportedly doing. Yet the results, and the finished work product here speak for themselves.
They are abysmal at best.
Linotype is above their pay grade. These jokers are using stone tablets. The oligarch pays you not to write. The people on the oligarch payroll should be ashamed to show their faces in public.
I concur.
I once mentioned my disapproval of the Keystone XL Pipeline, and Coram Nobis pointed out that Warren Buffet’s trains were just as bad. Once again, we can’t choose ‘none of the above’ when we should be able to. More on this here:
*Oil By Train*
“Big profits, increased employment, boosts to local economies and state revenues: What’s not to love? Well, there’s nagging concern about the estimated 11 to 22 million gallons of precious water required to expand the ND fracking wells to 2,000 and, from a larger perspective, there’s recognition not only of water contamination and depletion, but also of air pollution and destruction of habitat. There’s also the prospect of more fiery catastrophes such as the Lac-Megantic derailment, as trains increasingly transport the volatile oil around the US.”
http://my.firedoglake.com/kateca/2014/06/27/oil-by-train/
Statesman (and -I believe – true libertarian) Ron Paul today on the Middle East, and another, more cosmetic matter.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/3647235945001/ron-paul-on-approach-in-mideast-boehner-plan-to-sue-obama/#sp=show-clips
The Great American People murders its dissidents. The “there is no such thing as society” society’s assassin demographic does if for fun, and the rest does not want to know anything about it.
“Killin’ Thangs Weekend” starts next Friday. How much fun will that be?
Jacobin is an ugly rag. There are progressive leftist nuts who think Stalinism and the French Revolution would be fun hijinks to permanently impose just to stick it to creative, thoughtful, self reliant individuals.
Well, it’s someone who is indeed a leftist who was critical of the Federal Reserve. I would have thought you’d like that.
Ted Cruz is offensive and interventionist about foreign policy, by the way, and not libertarian as you claimed. He thinks Obama isn’t ‘doing enough.’ He also appears to have delusions perhaps best described as dementedly pro-Zionist.
*Ted Cruz Slams Obama Over His Do-Nothing Approach to Foreign Policy*
Yes. Debbie, Cruz wants more!
http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/06/23/Ted-Cruz-Slams-Obama-Over-His-Do-Nothing-Approach-to-Foreign-Policy
“Cruz declined to offer any particulars for a policy in Iraq against ISIS, maintaining the cautious route he and fellow tea party Republican Sen. Rand Paul, R-Kentucky, have adopted throughout the week as the situation in Iraq worsens.
“But speaking on the Senate floor after President Obama announced plans to send 300 military advisers to Iraq, he said the White House should seek congressional approval.
” ‘If the president is launching or planning to launch a concerted offensive attack and is not constrained by the exigency of the circumstance, he should come to Congress to seek and receive authorization,’ Cruz said.”
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/06/ted-cruz-us-foreign-policy-collapsing-under-president-obama/
Nice try, Cindy.
Well if Obama isn’t doing enough, as Cruz plainly says, perhaps you’re right: Cruz is saying we should send cookies as well. But maybe…
What you quote says to me he wants more action, congressionally authorized or not. His braindead remarks on Iran (“When push comes to shove, the American people know that Iran is our enemy…. They are working to develop nuclear ICBMs for one reason – to strike America and potentially murder millions of Americans.”-Ted Cruz) and his remarks on ISIS (“[their] objective is to create an Islamic caliphate that runs from Syria to Iraq and then to work to exterminate Jordan, Israel and, ultimately, America”) should or at least might alarm you to the fact that he has pro-Zionist delusions and interventionist ambitions.
If you can’t see this, then, yes, Cindy had a ‘nice try’ to get through to you, but didn’t.
How about that leftist critique of the Federal Reserve and corporatism? What’s that? It didn’t happen? Oh, well…
You said it.
“……..should or at least might alarm you to the fact that he has pro-Zionist delusions….”
Delusions? Cruz – like most Americans – supports a Jewish state. There is nothing delusional about it. It’s on every map of the world, and Israel is recognized by most countries in the world. What are you talking about – “delusional”? This isn’t 1935 for God’s sake. Israel – the national home for the Jewish people – already exist – and isn’t going anywhere.
I didn’t realize a Jewish State was America’s business. If needed, the US would not hesitate to help, I’m sure, but this pre-emptive prophecies-of-doom-jive is warmongering nonsense, and – to the point I was making – not libertarian.
Cruz’s fantasies of Israeli and American destruction are ludicrous.
citation needed (not really)
Markets are enforced. They rely on violence. Regulation is also violence. Violence, all the way down. The market is the state. You want property rights? You want a state. Your ‘individual’ is a feudal lord, or ironically his serf. That is the sorry outcome of marginal utility theory. Libertarians just don’t like the results.
Here is the proof that there are no political factions when it comes to organizing against the mass government surveillance.
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/06/activists-use-blimp-to-spy-on-nsas.html#more
I am dedicating this to all of the NSA trolls that frequent the comment section of TI. They are in the process of identifying themselves as I post this.
No article in 9 days? I gave Glenn benefit of the doubt during the first few weeks but this is just absurd. Glenn Greenwald is making a very public fool of himself with this false start. Even more bizarre is the cesspool of nonsense the comment boards have become here. Wow. Just wow.
They just announced it on October 15. Apparently Dan Froomkin and Jeremy Scahill and Marcy Wheeler are going to be a part of it. The anniversary is a little over three months away.
I hope their important work draws a lot of lookers off the busy streets of more well-travelled news media.
Jose says, “It’s a good bet Sirota and Rall are in negotiations with The Intercept.”
I don’t know what their job descriptions would be if that ever happened, but it’s a pretty good bet.
If you gaze into the cesspool, the cesspool gazes also into you. Are you strong enough to battle with the monsters of the comment section, without yourself becoming a monster?
It don’t bother me none. Like water off a duck’s back, Benitoe … but what’s good for me ain’t necessarily good for the weak-minded.
Boo.
True. I have battled with monsters all my life and it never affected me none neither. ‘Cept for a few blows I took to the head – made it difficult to think after that, but it didn’t affect my judgment in the slightest.
I wonder at what point you would have counted out the Giants versus the Dodgers during in the 1951 season. The Giants trailed the Dodgers by 13.5 games in August. They won the pennant in last game of a 3 game playoff series on October 3rd ending with Bobby Thompson’s Shot Heard ‘Round the World!
The Greatest Pennant Race Ever, In Reverse: 1951NL
Not just a stunt folks. Greenpeace means business.
“As an organization that has been the target of government surveillance in the past, Greenpeace knows the chilling effect that programs like the NSA’s can have on our democracy. That’s why in addition to today’s protest, we also are suing the NSA for violating our First Amendment right of association by illegally collecting call records.”
http://greenpeaceblogs.org/2014/06/27/greenpeace-takes-skies-protest-nsas-illegal-internet-spying/
https://www.eff.org/press/releases/diverse-groups-fly-airship-over-nsas-utah-data-center-protest-illegal-internet-spying
Although I’ve presented this link several times in the comments of TI, it is worth posting again.
http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/
Great news. Environmentalism has a lot of political capital with establishment liberals, making things a bit harder for apologists to marginalize. This potentially broadens the political ambit of anti-surveillance quite a bit.
Greenpeace is of course correct that animals should have the security benefits of surveillance too.
Too many people are satisfied knowing that the NSA’s storage of all their personal data makes them safe. They should stop and consider the needs of other species as well. The NSA could easily expand its activities to the animal kingdom, without violating is core mission.
Mr. Mussolini;
Absolutely. A “135-foot-long thermal airship” flying a banner that the NSA is conducting illegal spying activities over the Utah central data storage area of the NSA; might act as a restraining “collar” for the beasts.
Are Marcy Wheeler, Jane Hamsher, and “Digby” the same person?
Wheeler, Hamsher, and “Digby” walk into a bar …
But not on the same night, because nobody’s ever seen them together!
Marcy Wheeler, Jane Hamsher side by side.
By the by, the video that I linked to of Jane Hamsher and Marcy Wheeler is quite fun and entertaining to watch and listen to. It’s, incidentally, about the conclusion of the Scooter Libby trial.
Could be computer graphics. Devilishly clever, these leftists like Jane and Marcy! Oh wait, ‘Put Stars by It’ is a Communist or something, right? Devilishly clever, these neo-Nazi imperialists like Jane and Marcy!
@ barncat
Thank you so much for that! I’m going enjoy some great reading there. :)
Greenpeace adds clout to EFF in opposing NSA Mass surveillance.
http://rt.com/usa/168948-eff-nsa-utah-blimp/
Love it!
Follow-up link:
https://standagainstspying.org/
-El B
I propose: “NEWS | GLENN GREENWALD | VOICES | DOCUMENTS | STAFF | ABOUT | ARCHIVES | HUMAN SERVICES”
@debbiedowner … Darlin’, you think I didn’t already pursue what you “propose”? I’m ten steps ahead of you skippin’ in the dark rockin’ mile high stilettos – You underestimate me.
I think she *misunderestimates you, El B. We all do.
Just remember, as a rule, whatever your problems means only that you don’t have enough socialism or enough government.
Oh. I thought the problem was too much corporatism and militarism, and a disrespect for the Constitution.
All that can be solved with more government.
Not personal integrity? Not making corruption and violence (in or out of government)culturally unacceptable through a true sense of community independent of the State?
I’ve been so misinformed! Are you sure about this?
*Obama Proposes $500 Million to Aid Syrian Rebels*
http://online.wsj.com/articles/obama-proposes-500-million-to-aid-syrian-rebels-1403813486
*Pentagon: Armed US drones Flying Over Baghdad*
http://news.antiwar.com/2014/06/26/pentagon-armed-us-drones-flying-over-baghdad/
Related: *Pentagon: 500 Troops in Iraq, More Are Coming*
“It hasn’t been so long since President Obama announced his intention to send ‘up to 300′ US troops to Iraq as ‘advisers,’ and the Pentagon now says there are 500 on the ground, with more coming.”
http://news.antiwar.com/2014/06/26/pentagon-500-troops-in-iraq-more-are-coming/
935 Iraq War [and Occupation] False Statements
This would be a good time to reacquaint ourselves with how blatant the lies and misinformation was, and who they were by. Could be helpful tool for convincing fence sitters to get the hell off of the fence and chase those same voices and their replacements and or children (Elizabeth Cheney) off of the stage.
The establishment doesn’t want those people or their replacements chased off anywhere, so that could be tricky. For the establishment these liars serve to give red meat to those who hate Obama, and serve as comparisons that make Obama look good to those who adore him.
Meanwhile Obama, loved or hated, seems intent on further weaponizing and funding incredibly dubious ‘rebels’ in Syria, using the Iraq situation as a pretext, putting troops and drones back into that country as well. This plus troops staying in Afghanistan and drones strikes resumed in Pakistan, increasing in Yemen… Very peaceful, I’m sure.
Great link. I also hope it reminds people of how this began.
Why is al Qaeda running Libya now, and getting funding from Obama to fight a legitimate Syrian government? How did that began?
Why are progressive leftists enabling that (in the interludes when they’re not attempting to strip Americans of natural law rights encoded in the first ten amendments)?
The ‘progressive leftists’ like Obama and Dick Cheney have much to answer!
Cheney is a neocon (leftist Republican). Neoconservatism is a direct lineage of the Trotskyites who moved into Mexico City after the Revolution. (Review Irving Kristol, Bill’s dad.)
Socialist Obama is the immigration reform touting, gun grabbing (http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/over-a-barrel-meet-white-house-gun-policy-adviser-steve-croley/2011/04/04/AFt9EKND_story.html), ACA mandator who hinted at approval for jailing citizens who didn’t buy comprehensive health care insurance. Signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, recently spoke affectionately about Australia’s ban on most small arms ownership, spoke on-camera to “spread the wealth around.” Said, “If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that.”
His wars are naked, leftist aggression and progressive adventurism, with a rich provinence in other leftist aggressions of the past century.
You manage to squeeze everything you don’t like into ‘leftism,’ which leaves very few in the ‘right wing’ at all. I also dislike the behaviors you identify I would personally call Obama and Cheney and Kristol by a different word than ‘leftism’ (but I’m trying not to swear), however I admire your verbal contortion skills and consider your relentless bullheadedness about everything bad being of the demonic left a unique and creative accomplishment worthy of note.
That’s good, Cindy. Care to tell us what isn’t leftist about the examples I gave you?
I should say I think the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay thing was actually a good thing. It wasn’t enough, and only allowed after-the-fact suing (and few can afford that), but it was decent. Obama is still showing sociopathologically deviant behavior very similar to Cheney, however, so this hardly excuses him.
The ACA is corporatist. That isn’t leftist to me.
His ‘you didn’t build that’ is ridiculous, but hardly ‘socialist.’ His views on the 2nd Amendment are boilerplate stuff for his ‘side’ of the establishment puppet show, no more meaningful than ultraconservative morons prattling on about wedge issues as if they are vital.
That you think Cheney can be described at all as leftist should alarm you to the fact that you might be mistaken, for very few would accept your definitions and we need to speak the same language.
For myself I would define Republican and Democrat mistakes as corporatism (crony capitalism) and over-militarism, as well as a disrespect of the Constitution. Neither leftist nor rightist, just PLAIN WRONG.
I think you’ve self identified with “left of center” politics when commiserating with others for a while now, and you fear readjusting your opinions when reminded of how much societal carnage results from its collectivist, nanny, authoritarian mindset. It’s a spell you’re having trouble shaking when asked to re-evaluate it head on.
Cheney is notorious for accepting social mores that have a strong progressive bent. He also, like his counterparts in the Democratic Party, rejects scrutiny of the Federal Reserve. Cheney is a leftist.
I think your psychoanalysis of me is wrong, but I did call you bullheaded so you probably think it’s fair to accuse me of being insecure. I do try to keep an open mind, but I doubt my sympathies for aspects of both conservatism and progressivism will change very much, as I have thought the basics through and found principles from both that work for me. I guess my issue with your language is that you seem to have an agenda to blame the left alone, which seems both prejudiced and counterproductive to me, not to mention odd.
The comprehensive mandate is progressive leftist authoritarian. Herd immunity, and morning after, and 45,000 souls perishing in the gutters every year without care.
I didn’t accuse you of insecurity. I accused you of being mind-controlled in a peer pressure environment.
An unnecessary boon to Big Pharma and Big Insurance is corporatist.
If leftist, we would have single payer, or at least a strong public option.
But it was sold as if it was progressive, certainly. I didn’t realize people actually thought it was. Everyone I know thinks Romney invented it.
Now I’m mind-controlled? You’ve got a lot of nerve.
And Romney and Heritage are neocon. See above.
Oh, of course, Romney’s a leftist, too. My mind-controlled state must have kept me from seeing it. How silly of me.
Well here’s Romney photographed under the tent of a Planned Parenthood fundraiser:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/12/19/romney_dismisses_photo_taken_at_fund_raiser_says_he_is_firmly_antiabortion/
PP isn’t leftist either I guess.
If you’re going to use wedge issues to determine left and right you are a sensationalist with little understanding of core principles. I honestly thought you contemplated matters deeper than that. Romney is a corporatist and a militarist who disrespects the Constitution, just like Romney, JUST LIKE ‘YOUR MAN’ TED CRUZ (I have researched his foreign policy positions and he is an idiot who wants more violence in Syria and Iraq even than Obama – he is not a libertarian non-interventionist as you claim but a pro-Zionist fanatic), just like Obama and Hillary Clinton.
Perhaps one day you and I will speak the same language. American.
Here’s your man Ted Cruz now:
“‘Abroad, we see our foreign policy collapsing and every region in the world is getting more and more dangerous,’ Cruz said at the Faith and Freedom Coalition’s conference in Washington. ‘[ISIS’] stated objective is to create an Islamic caliphate that runs from Syria to Iraq and then to work to exterminate Jordan, Israel and, ultimately, America,’ he said.
Yes, very non-interventionist, very libertarian.
But perhaps non-interventionist and libertarians are ‘leftists,’ too. Maybe you’ve ascended to that ‘height’ of knowledge, it’s hard to tell with you. What do I know, me with the mind-controlled mind and all…
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/06/ted-cruz-us-foreign-policy-collapsing-under-president-obama/
About Iran: “When push comes to shove, the American people know that Iran is our enemy…. They are working to develop nuclear ICBMs for one reason – to strike America and potentially murder millions of Americans.” (Ted Cruz)
What a peacemaker. Such soothing words. Is he becoming ‘leftist’ in your terms, or is it just me?
Poor fella doesn’t know that when push comes to shove the American people couldn’t care less about Iran.
Cindy,
But you carefully clipped immediately above where the ABC News piece went contiguously on to say that…
“Cruz declined to offer any particulars for a policy in Iraq against ISIS, maintaining the cautious route he and fellow tea party Republican Sen. Rand Paul, R-Kentucky, have adopted throughout the week as the situation in Iraq worsens.
“But speaking on the Senate floor after President Obama announced plans to send 300 military advisers to Iraq, he said the White House should seek congressional approval.
” ‘If the president is launching or planning to launch a concerted offensive attack and is not constrained by the exigency of the circumstance, he should come to Congress to seek and receive authorization,’ Cruz said.”
Sounds pretty non-interventionist to me. (Or were you being sarcastic? And if so what kind of agenda are you on? Where are you coming from with this progressive, fearful contentiousness?)
I didn’t clip anything. I pointed out how stupid and offensive he is. If you can’t tell from that which you have quoted that he’s seeking further action, constitutionally authorized or not, you are being wilfully ignorant. Further action is not non-interventionist, and the US is not under any direct threat.
Learn to read, or better, learn to comprehend what you read.
You’re oblivious that your audience can read the continuity in your linked article for themselves.
First I’m mind controlled and now oblivious. You’re such a sweet-talker.
Make the next one a real doozy, would ya?
I think Cruz’s words indicate he’s no libertarian, personally.
You voted for Obama though didn’t you? So you own it.
Uranium from Africa – Lie
Import Aluminum Tubes – Lie
Inspections Failed – Lie
‘Vast’ Stocks of Chem/Bio – Lie
Reconstituted Nuke Program – Lie
al-Qa’ida – Lie
9/II – Lie
The manufacturing of public division by aspiring politicians, who seek only to further their own interests through public dissent, is an increasing problem. Religious and political opinions make up only 5-10% of what separates people from one another. At least 90% of the time people share the same values, yet a handful of politicians (who poles show are rarely trusted by the public) manage to divide the community using completely vague policy statements which lack any substance. By simply criticizing their opponents using very short statements in regard to complex and multilayered situations, they convince voters to endorse them without explaining their solution to the very problem they condemn their opponent over.
The two party/two sides argument scenario keeps the politicians in power, be it opposition or government (they trade places every few years regardless), while meanwhile taking advantage of the situation to avoid true scrutiny by the public.
Although we now possess the technology to increase transparency and make monitoring of political process less time consuming for the public, our politicians insist on continuing to hide behind the old traditions of cumbersome and redundant time wasting procedure and an enormous paper trail merry-go-round to protect themselves from proper scrutiny and a fundamentally broken FOI system which in fact appears to be a well crafted system of Freedom From Revealing Information of Substance.
While our governments and their security services insist on ever increasing their access to our private information, at the same time they are increasingly avoiding our attempts to access information regarding the operation of the very governments elected to represent us and do so in a transparent manner. If they want to keep records of all our electronic personal and business details and communications, why are they resisting transparent electronic publication of all their own financial donations they receive, their business interests and also online records of all statements and political debates they have engaged in. Why aren’t all these details and the minutes of all political discussions, procedure and debates available in easily searchable online databases, plus a Live Stream of all proceedings in the various houses of politics. All databases, Live Streams, information and documentation should be kept in triplicate at three different locations to avoid fraudulent tampering and forgery of any political and departmental records. What’s good for the Goose, is good for the Gander if that’s the way the want to play it!
Since then – ’tis Centuries – and yet
Feels shorter than the Day
I first surmised the Horses’ Heads
Were toward Eternity–
This is the concluding stanza to “Because I Could Not Stop For Death. All signs suggest our toleration for totalitarian bullshit is akin to that surreal carriage ride; we keep moving through the same space and get no closer to anything.
Yes Morning’s Minion, we indeed all perform outstandingly well at remaining apathetic to our governments giving in to the ever increasing demands of the insecurity apparatus and the resulting erosion of our liberty that our forebears fought and died for, while meanwhile corporations gain freedoms and rights well above and beyond our own while they in turn take our combined resources from our communities environment for free and exploit it for profit.
If I was to invade the front yard of a corporate CEO or politician, cut down their trees and dig up their garden, then spy on them and invade their privacy and sell any of this fore profit, I would expect to be jailed.
However it seems politicians or some of their friends can come knocking on my door asking for a $5000 bribe or “You wouldn’t want your business to run into unexpected problems”. A large private company with political backing can also cut down the entire forest surrounding my property, but I am not allowed to remove just a few trees to build one single building although the other 75% of my property (600 acres) is forest which I chose to look after and keep intact in it’s natural state for future generations to enjoy.
The two men from the government didn’t throw me and my family out on the street the following day with “nothing but the shirts on our backs”, as they said they would do to us in the 1980’s because we refused to sell our property so it could be made into a paper pulp mill. In fact the then corrupt State Government Premier spent quite some time in prison with his mate who forged documents relating to our property and it’s legal status and perjured themselves in court as well as perverted the course of Justice, plus all those $100,000 travel expenditure costs for trips they never took, the gold and rare coin collection for the behalf of the public which disappeared, and also the corrupt Rothwells bank they set up that robbed all the retirement funds of it’s customers plus also cleaned out the state government’s voluntary superannuation scheme.
But now thanks to new technology they can accomplish corruption with far more sophistication and listen in on any victims and their lawyers communications in case they just happen to cotton on to how they are being scammed and begin to build a solid legal case.
Legal matters that may embarrass the government are much easier to curtail, discredit and counter with the aid of total surveillance! CRUSH THE PRECARIAT
As the planet continues to warm up , we will see more violence.Heat causes biology to become more active.With the weaponry available today , we are in trouble John Bertotto
Fully appropriate comment there, John. Except that it is nothing to do with the piece and the planet is not warming. Apart from that, well done.
Yes, CO?, and serotonin, are the two main drivers of the dynamic Gaia. Because people are so ignorant to the science, it would help if you could build a marketing case around the achieved independent manipulation of both substances either upward or downward. You might get more payroll participation.
Subscript 2 on Windows Character Map does not translate to the board comments.
Tom and Peter are two of favorites at speaking truth to power. New postss from Tomdispatch with considerable discussion of Edward.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/
Excellent link.
Bookmarked.
These short articles should be read by all Americans. They are real Eye-Openers and excellently written.
Thanks NFJTAKFA.
Forgot to add this:
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175856/tomgram%3A_peter_van_buren%2C_rip%2C_the_bill_of_rights/#more
Thanks back atchya’, Lyra1.
Apologies for the lack of attention to detail after my bit of Sapphire and tonic…
@Lyra1 … Admittedly, this is totally OT – but I wanted to reach out to you specifically because of your previous concern, kind words & encouragement directed towards me personally. You seem like a lovely person … and I wanted to explain myself so you might understand the purpose of my “incoherent” posts on a previous comment board.
Yes, I did write to TI/GG … quite some time ago, in fact. I made a heartfelt appeal that they/he moderate these boards w/the guidance from someone who specializes in psychology. I based my letter on a specific set of legitimate examples provided by another commenter and my own feelings about their state of mind (as I perceived them to be). I was genuinely concerned not only for this commenter, but also for anyone this person might share their home with. Despite whatever sharky trolling I am admittedly guilty of – I would never want to contribute to the potential pain of another … and in the course of my commenting I would *never* want pain I cause to be displaced and cause others to innocently suffer.
My letter included a personal story of my friendship with someone who suffers from extreme PTSD and who is also a serial abuser … and the potential for true harm when those signs are ignored. I was sincerely driven to write my letter as an appeal to illustrate how people might be affected by perceived “bullying” comment boards – and if their behavior/dialogue suggest genuine mental health issues – and how they might act out when provoked or taunted.
I was discouraged when I received no reply … then read/saw here that moderation policies at TI appear to be limited to multiple links, hate speech and/or perhaps crapflooding. However much I wanted TI/GG to consider raising their own bar in the moderation dept. it simply fell on deaf ears. Case in point – my “crazy” trail of crumbs left intentionally by me. Not only were they published, no effort was made on their part to call for a welfare check. To put it bluntly, it’s akin to watching a train wreck then just driving away, without stopping to help and with no concern for the victims … it’s inhumane to me.
I can not express in words how deeply I feel about this subject – or how heartbreaking it is for the families/loved ones of those who live with this kind of suffering in their homes and hearts. And I get particularly offended when I think of veteran’s … especially when Ed Snowden himself spoke of our country’s collective trauma in the wake of 9-11 and how the Admin/NSA uses “terror” to justify “national security”. It’s simply hypocritical for an organization who defends him and those particular words to ignore their own part in perpetuating and/or ignoring that very same mindset among their own friends/fans/audience. Pot meets Kettle …
I tested my little experiment on Twitter, too (to a significantly lesser degree, though) … and I would also like to thank @Presumptuous Insect for offering to send me $ for cat food. That concern was so very dear … and my cats are fed and well.
So however I chose to “fall on my sword” and play the part of an obviously unstable person matters little to me. One of my personal philosophies is that I will pull my own pants down first before I do it to anyone else. Otherwise it’s just scapegoating. Besides, for all intents and purposes we are each anonymous here … but I am still deeply saddened by the complete personal (and corporate) lack of self-awareness on the part of whoever is in charge of moderating these boards and their utter lack of empathy or concern for the well-being of those among them … that’s how it seems to me, anyway … especially considering it comes directly from an organization I truly believe is doing everything in their power to “save the world”. Yet for whatever efforts I’ve made to them privately (and publicly) the hypocrisy has been as astounding as the silence has been deafening.
In the spirit of Mr. Snowden I too am but only one person. Consider this entire comment another whistle that I’m desperately blowing … and inasmuch as I cannot force anyone to do anything they don’t want to – I will also call them out for their irresponsibility in their failure to act appropriately. I continue to hope and pray I’m proven wrong and I am able to enlighten those who are reading this to see their culpability re: this issue to elicit positive changes in how comment boards could and should be moderated. None of us are perfect – but that doesn’t mean we should stop trying to improve, right?
With all of that said I will also say that observing 21st century propaganda has been fascinating to watch … and is also often humorous when you see it for what it is. It’s as subtle and subversive as it’s always been – and I’m often left awestruck and bemused when I see it manifest before my very eyes. So even after my own little experiment here – I will now resume my commenting sans “crazy talk”. This is, afterall, still the one-and-only comment board I participate in … if for nothing else I find almost all of commenters offer mature, well-rounded, highly educated, super thought-provoking, and often silly/funny points of view that I appreciate, nay need – given the current state of affairs – I’ll just take personal responsibility to be more aware of the person behind the comment and be sensitive if I see a pattern that is cause for concern … and sometimes I will still just troll trolls ;-) And if my dream letter re: a U.N.-esque panel between journalists and the internet ever happens I would personally love to be on the board of directors… now how “crazy” would THAT be? ;-)
Anyway – thank you again. My little “act” was merely a case study with nothing but good intentions. I’m all good and I apologize if I worried you … and I hope you won’t hold it against me. I appreciate the opportunity to say this to you, to @PI and my other “friends” here who expressed concern for me. Peace and prayers to you all.
So should your post just now be moderated? Do you want social services from The Intercept or just a forum for ideas?
Well… I don’t think I need moderation. I never needed social services from TI – I would’ve preferred a reply to my letter. It’s common, professional courtesy. This IS a forum – and you express your own ideas, so what’s your beef?. This didn’t start out as an idea – it was an observation of something I saw that I felt needed to be addressed. Give me enough time and I’ll do your DSM workup on the house. Thanks for your concern :-D
“El B 20 Jun 2014 at 2:58 am”
@debbie … and your point is?
Are you going to give Presumptuous Insect the money back for your cat food after your “little experiment”?
@debbie … I declined her generous and heartfelt offer. But thanks for keepin’ check on my finances. Are you a CPA too?
Are you saying your cry for help wasn’t genuine? We just don’t know what to believe anymore from you.
@debbie … my note above says it all. It’s why I chose to limit my own personal character assassination to a single comment board. If you review any of my posts on previous boards here you won’t find anything other than lucid, albeit sometimes prolific and occasionally profane, comments from me. I’m not concerned what you do or don’t believe about me or what I say. The fact that nothing happened on the corp side made my point. I wanted to come clean, apologize, explain myself and recognize those comments that I know were genuine and sincere concerns for my well-being.
Imagine if I was unstable … Imagine this was FB, Twitter or youtube and someone was writing what I was writing. Oh, wait – it’s already happened. The fact that you’re questioning this – and made your proposal above – suggests I have struck a chord, in you at least. I hope so …
This is EXACTLY WHY I have such a hard-on for the NSA … maybe this will help you understand my motives: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/05/23/response-michael-kinsley/#comment-43429
El B, your prior gravitar was flashed horns hand sign into the lens.
Now you talk about DSM like it’s your friend.
@debbiedowner: Uh, horns? You’re really goin’ out on a limb to demonize me, arncha?
ROFLMFAO!!!! Have you never been to a rock concert? I was flashing a heavy metal hand sign made famous by Ronnie James Dio – R.I.P. … But thanks for the laugh!
@debbie: “Now you talk about DSM like it’s your friend.”
Well … I do know my way around it – not a secret to the regular readership here – I’m not alone, either. I wish more people did … it might make the world a little easier place to navigate. I’m curious though, I’ve read some of your commentary – I’m curious why you’re all-of-a-sudden so concerned about my post. This seems out of character for you … given your mockery for government services. Might you see a place for intervention? I can think of thousands of kids coming home who would benefit greatly from treatment – not to mention civilians who are suffering from any number of diagnosis covered in the DSM – and I’d gladly vote for anyone who advocates for this.
El B,
I’m responding to your post because I detect a lame attempt at damage control. In your haste you’ve also made a burlesque of the good will of readers who sympathised with you. That dilutes the potential for sincere responses to any future potential travails a commenter might want to express.
I’m qualified both analytically and rhetorically to challenge your post, and sense that most readers are satisfied enough with it so that they can consume the conversation without much to add.
@debbiedowner: “I’m responding to your post because I detect a lame attempt at damage control.”
— Uh, OK … WTFevah! After all your posturing to appear concerned after-the-fact that’s all you got? If I needed to control damage why go to all the trouble of posting my REAL face and a true, plausible and sincere admission of the facts along with my reasoning and apology? I coulda just slinked off and re-invented myself here with a new i.d. and no one would be the wiser … or I coulda just quit altogether. Would’ve been much easier to save face if I were what you are attempting to shame me for. In this day-and-age of the internet, where no one here knows me, and I don’t know them – What purpose would damage control serve me? Nevermind – I already don’t give a shit what you think…
“In your haste you’ve also made a burlesque of the good will of readers who sympathised with you.”
— How did I do that TO them? For the readers who expressed their concern, and who I’ve had many positive conversations with I acknowledged them and expressed gratitude for their concern, I outed myself and my motivations — only THEY have the right to call me out — not poser wannabe worry-wort who lies after-the-fact about their so-called concern. I knew I detected a lame attempt at empathy … #EPICFAIL
“That dilutes the potential for sincere responses to any future potential travails a commenter might want to express.” Bullshit … you’re cerebral cortex is diluted … and deluded. Many people are sincere. Perhaps you’ve never been on the receiving end of sincerity (due to your obvious character flaws) … or perhaps you’ve never expressed it genuinely (due to your obvious character flaws). Your previous comments show your true colors with this statement. And p.s. – look up the word “travails”. And don’t try to minimize or mitigate any future sincerity of the readers here … just cuz you say it doesn’t make it so. You insult them with your proclamations.
“I’m qualified both analytically and rhetorically to challenge your post, and sense that most readers are satisfied enough with it so that they can consume the conversation without much to add.” … Way to step up and speak for everyone. How exactly are you qualified? Did you get certified by the Rand Paul Board of Ophthalmology? And what are your polling results of the readership here that you “sense”? And who the hell do YOU THINK you are to speak or sense ANYTHING another person thinks or “senses” when you don’t even KNOW them?
Let the readers here draw whatever conclusions they want – and speak for themselves. Whatever they say, be it sympathy, understanding or lambasting me for my actions I own what I did … and I can take the heat. You need to get out of my kitchen!
Better yet – go back to pretending to be concerned and lying about being so back on the 20th … your real personality demonstrates the shades of apathy and hypocrisy I’ve seen time and time again in social media. I imagine you have few real friends … even if people in your life are friendly to you. So far you’ve already played 2 parts of the Karpman Drama Triangle today … first you were my victim … now you’re playing the readers rescuer … but really, your just a perp. Have fun with that!
Don’t try to social shame me … it’ll never work.
You scared us, El B. How should we respond next time you write something like you wrote on 20 Jun 2014 at 2:58 am?
@debbie: Define “us” … then define “scared”. I saw nothing from you personally -to me- regarding any concern for my feigned mental well-being after any of those comments I made. Maybe your comment got moderated though … Or maybe you can read what I just posted to you above. Then check yourself.
I can’t help but feel this readership feel used, or misled, by you.
It’s just Russian dolls inside of onion layers with you. Should we believe you anymore?
Tell the readership how we should respond next time we read something like that by you. You seem disappointed we didn’t react.
@debbie:
“I can’t help but feel this readership feel used, or misled, by you.” … inasmuch as a comment board can be misled and used. How do you personally feel misled/used? I’m dy-ing to know?
“It’s just Russian dolls inside of onion layers with you. Should we believe you anymore?” … I like your symbolism of me – but EVERYONE is. Do you just judge them AFTER you’ve been called out? Or do you consider this when you pass them sleeping on a bench or with their hand out asking for help?
“Tell the readership how we should respond next time we read something like that by you.” … I already told the readership my thoughts. My little “social experiment” was meant to be thought provoking. It was meant to shed light on ALL our responsibility when we participate – and how I’ve never seen a single comment board on the internet give any consideration WHATSOEVER for the people who may take words written so carelessly to heart. You can sing “sticks and stones” all you want – but the fact remains – words hurt some people just as much … and sometimes those hurt people hurt other people … and sometimes those hurt people give up on themselves. It’s the saddest pain to know a parent whose experience such loss … they live with unfathomable depths of pain, grief and loss imaginable – and the guilt can be crippling.
” You seem disappointed we didn’t react.” … If I were truly disappointed perhaps I would’ve given up after my first non-reply from TI. Perhaps I would’ve just quit social media all together. For yourself though – you need to go back to the dictionary and double-check “we” … cuz honey, you weren’t one of “them” who did react. It was THOSE people who I am most grateful for … and who reinstate my faith in humanity. You are only reacting NOW … and if it’s sincere I’ll thank you for it – and if you’re just yanking my chain then I couldn’t care less.
I’m an advocate … and I’m a creative, little outside-the-box thinker. However I chose to frame my Social Experiment served it’s purpose. My case study using this method is closed. No one died …. and any reaction by the readership here, after I outed myself, that turns a negative to a positive – even if only in one person – is a win in my book. And I’ll never stop reading TI … I just can’t quit these/you kids. :-D
@debbiedowner: The regular readers here know I have a thing about chronology of comments. The nature of comment boards tend to obscure patterns of behavior – and I do like to put things in order – just for perspective.
I find it telling that you first expressed concern, lied about when it started, called my honesty into question then started the shame blame game … as opposed to answering my questions posed above “El B 27 Jun 2014 at 4:42 pm”.
Way to deflect and project … your initial reaction formation then rationalization and assertiveness is your undoing. If you can read between the lines of DSM defense mechanisms you’ll know by now that your profile is getting more transparent with every passing comment.
El B,
I saw in your post a lame attempt at damage control. Among the many inconsistencies, there is also that your new post makes mockery of the good will that anyone showed you before. You seem unconcerned that may have a diluting impact on future potential travails expressed by others.
I considered myself analytically and rhetorically qualified to challenge it, and I also understand that many in the readership are satisfied with that enough so that they can consume the conversation without any additional input.
Is that you @debbie signing is as ME? Perhaps checkout my previous reply above. (El B 27 Jun 2014 at 10:37 pm) And perhaps stick to your own virtual identity here. Thanks.
Thanks. Read the first article and the next one about the 4th Amendment by Van Buren. Chilling, but well worth reading.
Dear Mr. Greenwald, dear Mr. Gallagher,
I really appreciate your reporting on NSA surveillance. However, I am wondering why more and more time passes between revelations. I have read your complaints about the bureaucratic issues associated with founding a new news organization that are bigger than you anticipated. Could you please report in detail about what they consist of?
The reason why I am asking you to do this: I presume that you have registered or are in the process of registering firstlook.org under US jurisdiction. As we have seen, the US government certainly is not interested in this NSA reporting. And I am quite sure that by now they have understood that they cannot scare you out of doing it. It makes me wonder whether they are now trying to impede your work by keeping you busy with senseless bureaucratic stuff.
I suspect that this is what every big corporation would do if it engaged in corrupt practises at the expense of its customers and if one of their customers filed a criminal complaint against it: The company’s lawyers would try to drown that customer’s lawyer(s) in urgent bureaucratic issues 24/7. Could it be that the US government is trying to do the same with you? Could you please report in detail about the challenges you are facing in getting Firstlook going?
Thank you very much.
I wonder what those who always say, “if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear”, think of the latest supreme court ruling on cell phone seizures. Was the court wrong in this case? How does seizing cell phones differ from seizing phone calls and emails?
We have a long way to go to protect personal privacy and data. That ruling is just a small step.
Do you happen to know if kissing Greenbacks’ ass is part of the job description of working here?
You’ll have to ask someone who works here to show you their job description.
If you don’t already have it in your database out there in Utah.
I’m sure they will need a sewer snake at some point. You can kiss his ass while you are at it.
Why am I getting the impression that you’d like to kiss his greenbacks?
@BenjaminAP- You asked me, about progressives and libertarians:
“But the left is critical of capitalism, morally/categorically. The libertarian thinks capitalism can only be failed. We have two very different frames of the world, but you contend there is a mutual problem?”
I think the primary unity possible between progressives and libertarians is around the unacceptability of the militarization/police state (inclusive of the invasiveness of the NSA – a branch of the military, as I’m sure you know), as well as the shared antiwar desire to be non-interventionist.
To your point specifically, I do indeed contend there is a ‘mutual problem’ with regard to corporations, and definitely agree that the different framing of progressives and libertarians makes a unified front against corporate abuse very difficult. I can’t say all the lefties I know are anti-capitalism categorically, as many of them are glad to benefit from it and just seem ‘regularly American’ about it (a vague definition, I realize). I don’t know Glenn Greenwald, but he seems typically progressive in these terms, an unabashed capitalist who – in economic language – wants ‘the system’ to be just and fair to all and even overly kind to the unfortunate. The self-proclaimed libertarians I know generally think the charity of an un-coerced community, and not the tax-sucking government, should take care of the more unfortunate (which is a remarkably idealist stance about humanity, as I see it, and to my mind perhaps TOO idealist as a tenet), and of course they believe in the purported health of free markets and unbridled capitalism almost as a central principle.
What both groups have as a common in this regard (if they are informed) is they both agree that Big Business and monopolies of the same (giants of pharma, agribusiness, insurance, energy etc) should not be able to be closest to the trough of (fiat) money and regulatory power which the government possesses. Both libertarians and progressives agree that special treatment and influence over policy should not be a gift to large industries, and the left calls this anti-corporatism and the right anti-CRONY-capitalism. The big banks, for example; genuine criticism from the left and the right merged in a wave of revulsion (led initially by the Tea Party before it was co-opted) regarding the banks getting bailed out with our hard-earned cash.
The shenanigans of the Federal Reserve, also, should be under the radar of both, but seems rarely mentioned by either any more. It is the issue of special treatment for established institutions and how this closes up opportunities for other industrious individuals – this is the uniting factor, I think.
However, I see little unity. I must be honest, there is no impressive force against corporatism or militarism gathering at all, really. YET. I was just saying it might be possible, as I’m sincerely trying to infuse positive energy instead of being so damn cynical.
Political alliances are extremely important and cynicism is fatal. But skepticism is hopeful. I admit I like to play devil’s advocate on this issue for that reason (hence the broad strokes). I think the more we cross examine the political terrain the better idea we’ll have of that common ground where politics can move and where it only terminates. You gave several examples worth consideration. My chief concern are the metaphors of left and right, and how that affects our perception of history, in how we got here. It has such a large bearing on what we think is necessary and possible. How can our language/organization gain meaningful traction, and to what end? I don’t have good answers but just so I’m clear, I don’t think it’s a fatal pursuit. Just incredibly troublesome, and thus I think worth engaging. To that end thanks for indulging me.
Speaking of history I highly recommend this recent piece in jacobin on the revisionist historian Gabriel Kolko.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/06/gabriel-kolkos-unfinished-revolution/
tl;dr
If the left fails to internalize this most pivotal point in history, it’s a big problem for our collective imaginations going forward. Again no good answers there, but hopefully good questions.
“If the left fails to internalize this most pivotal point in history”
Even pidgeon-holing like this is part of the problem, in that it labels and therefore creates a group that divides rather than unites.
How about “If the human race fails to internalize this most pivotal point in history” instead?
Please don’t take this a personal attack – it is not. It is just an observation along the lines that all our dialog contains too much marginalization, intended or not, mine included, and that we need more inclusive solutions to affect change – and that how we say it and frame it does matter.
Regards, Sillyputty
I hear you, but you may be misreading my intent (feel free to disagree of course). My position is that ideologies exist, and that they are not static but in flux, and that they have to be engaged. There’s no avoiding the subjective. It’s not enough to say we need to transcend differences, put them aside for some later time, because that time is always in the periphery of the ideological gaze. It’s static waiting to happen. I don’t think it’s a coincidence the tea party and occupy remain in their silos. Ideology matters. So all the better we bring our ideologies to the fore, make it a part of the dialectic. Get ahead of the natural mistrust, so that goals can be clear.
There’s an analog to journalism here, where the brand of “objectivity” and “even-handedness” obfuscates its inherent advocacy, which causes a lot of misperception throughout media. Real objectivity means there is an active brand of transparency. Acknowledging our points of view, internalizing their deficits, mindfully engaging the topic.
Whew, I’m long winded. But really, I don’t think I’m pigeon holing, or at least that isn’t the intent. I’m more like, “pigeons tend to live in holes, we can’t pretend otherwise, so how do we not end up with a bunch of dead pigeons?” The work of neuroscientist George Lakoff influences me a lot on this topic, I’ll share a link in a bit.
in regards to that link above about history, which you should most definitely read, that has to do with agnotology, which matters very much to the human race. But it matters most to “The Left”, because it’s their story to tell. Human’s are nothing if not storytellers. There are views. There are no “views from nowhere”.
@Montecarlo – I just happened on this today. Consider it one of the dozens of examples I said I could find. (And change “dozens” to hundreds.)
Jonathan Turley: “The Supreme Court has ruled in Noel Canning v. NLRB, No. 12-1115, and found that President Obama had indeed violated the constitution in his recess appointment. The decision was unanimous. [] The unanimous decision was personally satisfying because I was the lead witness in the Judiciary Committee hearing on the appointments.”
A commenter: “How utterly bizarre that you would find a ruling from this Supreme Court so personally gratifying. You will now almost surely find yourself on the wrong side of history.”
The meaning is clear, right? Given enough time, history will correct all mistakes. The truth will prevail. But there is no reason to believe that. And, even if it were granted, the question becomes how can one know when he’s on the right side of history? Clearly, the claim is just a particularly silly and annoying way of saying “We’re right and you’re wrong, whatever evidence and arguments you may have, and whatever the current consensus may be.” It’s implicitly a mindless claim to authority. Note that this anonymous nobody commenter (same as me) feels confident enough to make his claim in the face of a unanimous Supreme Court decision. These silly slogans (“It’s the right thing to do” is another) are made for consumption by, and the use of, dummies.
Silly slogans are ever more popular – they’re useful to express ur philosophy in 140 chrs or less. I’m afraid u r on the wsoh.
You’d think that people would have had enough of silly slogans
But I look around me and I see it isn’t so
Some people wanna fill the world with silly slogans
And what’s wrong with that?
I think you know
But there you go again
I h8 u
I h8 u
>” – they’re useful to express ur philosophy in 140 chrs or less.”:
Linguistic animals Monte. … the dogs howleth while the moon sheddeth fleas.
My philosophy on SCOTUS is oar (on a roll)! *I am still trying to figure why the NSA does not have to comply, immediately, with yesterdays SC ruling on cell phone searches? note. Holder’s DOJ spokespeople have said the will comply immediately… but asltw (actions speak louder than words.)
bit of a tangent and not hardly in the same boat, but MLK’s famous line on the “moral arc of history” bothers me on a similar principal. It was meant to give hope and energy, but in posterity it only served a view toward paralysis, false triumphs.
Yep, MLK’s consistent resort to a transcendent moral authority significantly limits his relevance today. But that’s definitely a minority opinion. (And saying that history is on one’s side is essentially the same as saying that God is on one’s side.)
And I think your comment is entirely in the same boat. The notion of a “moral arc of history” is just a more narrow (specific) expression of the general idea: that history has a tendency that favors some outcomes over others. Earlier, I quoted a history professor expressing the same idea as MLK in a recent New Yorker piece.
I just meant there’s enough countervailing King for me to personally bunch him with the lazy faith you cite here, (actually I think his critique of materialism has only become more trenchant with time), but you make a lot of fair points in that thread.
“An anonymous source alerted Valleywag to the firings. Neither Rall nor Sirota would comment on why they were fired. But there was a consensus among sources that the decision was not related to budgetary concerns. ‘It was completely from Sarah Lacy. Paul was the executioner. Apparently it came from complaints from investors in Pando,’ according to one Valleywag source. ‘Sarah basically said there was not enough tech and too much politics.’ ”
http://valleywag.gawker.com/pando-abruptly-fired-two-high-profile-staffers-without-1595758189
The problem is that Pando isn’t very good at writing about tech. It never looked like Pando really understood what Pando is about. In time it might have become a very good alternative to Salon’s gutter with writers like that.
Rall is now saying that because he got booted, he doesn’t have legal cover for his pieces, and he just posted a piece about the CIA agent in Kabul whose name was exposed a few weeks back.
I suspect they were writing too much political shit, it got too threatening to the investors.
I only hope neither Sirota nor Rall are offered jobs here, and if they are, that they keep their integrity intact and refuse.
Both of those guys can write Greenbacks under the table. There’s no comparison. Greenbacks is a blogger (and a shitty one at that), those two guys are actual journos.
Of course I guess it would seem attractive to be hired not to do any work, which is what happens here. Omidyar just cages the writers and prevents them from writing.
At any rate, those are two huge losses for Pando, they were the primary reason I went there at all, other than for local tech shit happening in S.F., where I live.
I don’t think there’s any danger of that. They’re too professional.
That is absolute BS, and I’m sure you know that. It’s a good bet Sirota and Rall are in negotiations with The Intercept.
Jose, have you thought about running for public office? I have strong feeling that your perceptive and discerning peers would sweep you in.
Dear Debbie, Wrong again. Keep up the good work. I fell for the bullshit the first time with both Clinton and Obama, not the second time for either one of these assholes. Lots of good leftist rhetoric followed by complete sell-out to the MIC, Wall Street, and corporate greed. There is a reason that they seem so mild in the face of attacks from the right, that they do not go after the master criminals who proceeded them. They are playing the game. The dog and pony show, the phony two party system, the elitist game of the powerful, the money grubbers, and the morally bankrupt. One side feels your pain, the other side denies that there is any pain. Both are part of the side show of clowns that appear on the Sunday shows pretending to give a fuck about anything but there own advancement.
Above is in response to:
debbie
25 Jun 2014 at 11:12 pm
Sweet irony! Paul Carr claims investors have no control over him after Pando fires Sirota and Rall due to investors’ objections to their work.
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/482140447486513152
To all those ‘silly’ optimists out there in Dreadsville..
California Assembly Panel Votes Unanimously to Turn off Resources to the NSA
SACRAMENTO, June 24, 2014 – ‘In the face of opposition lobbying from the California Sheriffs Association and two former NSA analysts, the California Assembly Public Safety Committee voted unanimously to approve a bipartisan bill which creates a mechanism to turn off all material support and assistance, including water and electricity resources, from California to federal mass surveillance programs. The vote was 7-0.
Dubbed the 4th Amendment Protection Act, Senate Bill 828 (SB828) passed the State Senate last month by a vote of 29-1, and is just two votes away from reaching Gov. Brown’s desk. If signed into law, it would ban the state from participating in, or providing material support or resources to any federal agency engaged in the “illegal and unconstitutional collection of electronic data or metadata, without consent, of any person not based on a warrant that particularly describes the person, place, and thing to be searched or seized.”’
http://offnow.org/2014/06/24/california-assembly-panel-votes-unanimously-turn-resources-nsa/
*note – There are currently no facilities in the state that could/would be affected by said ‘bill’ in question.
ht`bile
There are in Utah, where Republican state Rep. Marc Roberts drafted a bill in February to do the same thing. These bills are mostly based all on one model legislation that the Tenth Amendment Center wrote.
The progressive left giggles at “states’ rights,” that is until CA finds it useful for a state bill it wants to promote as a 4th remedy. Or for new June 2014 illegal-immigrant voting, sanctuary legislation like New York Is Home Act.
“There are currently no facilities in the state that could/would be affected by said ‘bill’ in question.”
Given the evidence, prevention seems the best medicine.
Thanks suave.
To debbie: gross generalizations like “The progressive left giggles at “states’ rights,” is exactly the type of counterproductive comments that have kept us in this almost perpetual state of political gridlock – pigeon-holing like this inaccurate, misleading and it is counterproductive.
Also debbie, thanks for the link to the Tenth Amendment Center.
They’ve giggled at “states’ rights” since before Reagan’s first term, scrutinizing it as inadherence to their concept of states as mere administrative districts to carry out, at a more local level, conformist federal authority that enforces its sameness dogma.
Do your job! ;-)
@J_Klinsmann
And don’t forget to wear your jersey !! #businessattire RT @ussoccer: Need note to get out of work Thurs? #LetsDoThis pic.twitter.com/fa49OKM0hu
@Cindy
But the left is critical of capitalism, morally/categorically. The libertarian thinks capitalism can only be failed. We have two very different frames of the world, but you contend there is a mutual problem?
Corey Robin:
Libertarians don’t think of themselves as neoliberals, but as Robin argues, the later was the logical extension of the former, as they both derive from first principals. The sacred character of property.
When the frames of authority are fundamentally at odds, any supposed political convergence dealing with aspects of authority are naturally deeply implicated. I think that explains much of the “false flag” paranoia Greenwald/Snowden pique in certain sectors of the left. GG’s applied ambiguity doesn’t hurt either. But even at that extreme the skepticism is earned on historical fault lines. The left is weak. Property is strong.
And let the pidgeon-holing begin. A complete comfirmation of my argument below:
“Without pigeon-holing groups (which makes progress, more often than not, impossible because of ideology trumping pragmatism), this idea presented, in my view, is what needs to happen in order to affect the change needed.
The entire point is that in this case there are more basic, fundamental human rights being violated worlwide to allow this type of ideolgical pidgeon-holing to side-track what must be done – to change the status quo in regards to these abuses.
Argue later about the differences among groups – because if this divide and conquer mentality is both fostered by those in power and continually fed by those who cannot set them aside for these larger issues, then that, my friends, will mean that ‘they’ win.
““Nothing truly valuable can be achieved except by the unselfish cooperation of many individuals.” – Albert Einstein
@ Sillyputty
Emphatically agree.
The only issue that any American Citizen really has to decide now is whether or not they uphold the provisions of the Bill of Rights (Amendments) as written into the Constitution of the United States. Given that “issue” it will be easy to identify the “us” and “them”; and there are many more of “We The People of The United States of America” than there are elected officials serving as megaphones for the corporations under control of the World Central Bankers.
All of this discussion regarding perceived political factions is like contemplating the light spectrums emitted by the colors in a rainbow. Can’t we Just look at the rainbow to get the big picture?
Or perhaps the true objective of the “dissectors” is to prevent unity? An intellectual version of the same old story – sow disruption (pitting perceived groups against one another), confusion, and/or disinformation for the express purpose of veiling the truth. Just a thought.
“All of this discussion regarding perceived political factions is like contemplating the light spectrums emitted by the colors in a rainbow. Can’t we Just look at the rainbow to get the big picture?”
Very nice analogy.
“Or perhaps the true objective of the “dissectors” is to prevent unity? An intellectual version of the same old story – sow disruption (pitting perceived groups against one another), confusion, and/or disinformation for the express purpose of veiling the truth. Just a thought.”
This disruption is likely done, at least in some instances, as an explicit act of others to derail the conversation and defuse progress as Lyra1 has suggested; however, what seems more important is to recognize that no matter the motivation behind them, they are a part of the problem, not a part of the solution.
If we don’t recognize it as such now and deal with it effectively (ignoring them works wonders as a start), we’ll likely end up as Hume describes:
““Your corn is ripe today; mine will be so tomorrow. ‘Tis profitable for us both, that I should labour with you today, and that you should aid me tomorrow. I have no kindness for you, and know you have as little for me. I will not, therefore, take any pains upon your account; and should I labour with you upon my own account, in expectation of a return, I know I should be disappointed, and that I should in vain depend upon your gratitude. Here then I leave you to labour alone; You treat me in the same manner. The seasons change; and both of us lose our harvests for want of mutual confidence and security.”
– David Hume
And for good reason: libertarians are paleoconservatives.
“Neolib” is only the liberal left’s floppy acknowledgment that progressives resemble the neocons (leftist Republicans), but that it would look otherwise dissonant to call progressives neocons without coining a doppelgänger word.
Bull! There are so many different types of libertarian that your statement is ridiculous on its face.
As so many of the unenlightened do, you pigeonhole people and then tell them what they believe, what they mean. Try asking questions of people instead of branding them and fencing them in. If you’re unable to do that, why continue to bother yourself with people you apparently hate?
You and John Kelly ought to get a room and duke it out!
Hi Nate and all –
Thanks for your response Nate – but there was no way to respond directly to it. Glad I could also be of service with that link.
There’s so much going on, it takes forums like this as well as sources like The Guardian, ACLU and EFF, Empty Wheel Blog and other alternatives to even attempt to be up to speed. And the give and take here can be stimulating at times…
The surprise for me is the many European countries missing from the list.
Albania, Bulgaria, Finland, Iceland, Ireland, Portugal, Serbia, Slovakia.
Are these countries too straightforward for peeping Toms or are we already getting their communications data through third party telephone companies?
I have repreatedly tried to reply to John Kelly’s 25 Jun 2014 at 7:17 pm message to no avail, so there it goes as a top-most one
In order to satisfy your curiosity:
Using my browser (as specified) I:
1) went Tools > Web developer > Web console;
2) clicked on the JS tab and checked errors and warning, then;
3) refreshed this very page:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/06/18/nsa-surveillance-secret-cable-partners-revealed-rampart-a/
this is what I got:
~
http://hsymbolicus.wordpress.com/2014/06/25/725/
~
then I tested a reply after:
~
~
and got the result you may see (which was none or maybe it will appear after a very lont time sometimes repeated)
~
RCLopez
Fight back against surveillance abuses. They’re being used to destroy lives. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ twitter: @danlm12
Sen. Jeff Sessions writes that Obama is “committed to escalating” border lawlessness:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/06/09/Exclusive-Jeff-Sessions-Obama-Escalating-Lawlessness-at-Border
Breitbart? Sessions? Why would anybody here be interested in your lying little fascist friends? Are you always this pushy? Do you go to parties and regale people with your bewildering array of bullshit as well?
Strong words from a sitting U.S. Senator. They’re not usually so blunt.
Obama is a war criminal and a pushover for wall street but he is nothing like what those malignant open sores on the face of the body politic claim he is. They give him great cover for his crimes by being such obvious assholes. A pathetic dog and pony show for the voters. And you have fallen for it.
You’ve indicated he’s the best around, which makes your opinions suspect. Obama is more than a mere “pushover for Wall Street.” He’s a mystery school, test tube creation of the globalist elite from naissance. You’ve been hoodwinked, as it were.
“You’ve indicated he’s the best around, which makes your opinions suspect.”
Evidence of this fallacious bullshit, or just more rectal/brain cavity inversion on your part?
The first sentence of your comment above in the branch at 7:17 pm reiterates in so many words what you’ve said before in this space. You think he’s the best of the lot.
Wow, you are stretched out aren’t you? You interpret what I said above to mean I think Obama is the best of the lot? That is fucking hilarious, and one of the all-time most stupid things I’ve ever heard in response to a post of mine. Ding! Ding! Ding! You win the golden sphincter award in perpetuity. Congratulations, you must me so proud. You made my evening.
It’s why you voted for him twice.
Rethug vote getting talking points,and how much you want to bet he has illegals working as some kind of domestic help or landscaping.Sessions sucks,they all suck,except for a couple,whom the MSM ignore.
Conservatives;Pat Buchanan,Ron Paul,and maybe,maybe not,Rand Paul.All the rest are neolibcon scum of varying rabidity,Cruz seeming the most hydrophobic.
There are some really amazing people fighting for our rights. By civil law. Does it work? Yes. Congrats! :-)
“There are some really amazing people fighting for our rights. By civil law. Does it work? Yes.”
True that. And for all the doubters and naysayers: no it’s not fast and easy or enough yet; but it’s progress nonetheless.
Yes, and this is a good time to put in a plug for the ACLU (aclu (dot) org) and EFF (eff (dot) org), esp. given their interest in the subject matter FL/TI raises.
Absolutely.
Sillyputty, Baby steps are better than no steps at all, but should not be mistaken for major progress when drastic systemic changes are what is needed… not saying that is what you are saying, just what I am saying : ) Say what?
“no it’s not fast and easy or enough yet”
Yeah, I hear that…what, what?
It didn’t come soon enough for Fred Korematsu.
Good news for the Fourth Amendment coming from the SCOTUS.
http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/06/opinion-analysis-broad-cloak-of-privacy-for-cellphones/#more-214000
Thanks for posting this.
Perhaps the tide is turning.
That is very encouraging. Thanks.
You can’t start an isolated socialist commune among interdependent like-minded hipniks. You must impose socialism on everybody because they must all be controlled to your conformist utopian ideal.
well,Mr.Jesus really started something socialistic among all those interdependent like minded Israelites eh?
Rigid ideology of any kind sucks,its for dead enders,a cul de sac of the mind.
Jesus spread a Gospel, He didn’t come to form a humanist, statist, socialist idyll.
“[raised fist]OccupyWallStreet”
_”#S17: Our One Demand Is To End Capitalism“_
http://occupywallst.org/article/s17-our-one-demand-end-capitalism/
And you don’t impose a central planned command economy without police-state and surveillance. Controlling leadership comprised of effective state Working People is a good thing, because everybody has to be on the same page. No free riders.
Dearest Debbie,
You can’t walk a straight line if your shoes have rusty spikes inside of them.
You can’t talk a straight line if your internal dialogue is inauthentic quasi-fascist frontier jibberish.
Your knee-jerk offensive reaction to Occupy is uncannily similar to the Democrats’ knee-jerk offensive reaction to libertarianism. The fact that both true progressives and true libertarians unite over anti-war and anti-corporatism (anti-crony-capitalism) could be an alignment that is quintessentially American, an alliance which defangs the worst abuse of government without either side ultimately compromising its principles. It is not an easy alliance, but it seems at least possible.
Libertarians and progressives also agree the police state mentality (h/t Marianne) is overreach.
Progressives aren’t classical liberals. They’re authoritarian leftists.
Umm… sure, whatever. Dildos masquerading as sock puppets, sans batteries, are not quintessential or consequential to the conversation therefore…. ummm… leftists!
John, expand your vocabulary and learn a less vulgar argument style. Progressives have such a problem using words that aren’t debased when attempting to defend a tenuous position.
Thanks for the advice, but I will take guidance from intelligent thoughtful people who actually have some to give, not pathetic shit-stirrers (or excrement agitators… take your pick) such as yourself.
Ted Cruz blows,sucks and gerbils.But abortion is not a civilized way of human birth control ?I can see the need for lives to be saved,but abortion for convenience,I mean really,Hitler murdered many for convenience eh?Killing our progeny?sheesh.
But Cruz obviously with all his other stances,is just a rabid political animal loosed on a confused and divided nation,to do the bidding of the dual citizen traitors and their quislings,of which he is obviously one.A freakin Cuban((Commie-not that that’s a crime,but he is 180 from,other than propaganda usage.)and Canadian interloper.
Some of the points debbie described as anti-authoritarian during her earlier sojourn as Larchmont, are not in the least non-authoritarian. She would have the State impose by force of law her values on every citizen.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/04/27/excerpt-battle-justice-palestine/#comment-29986
Only partial birth dilation and extractions, and disallowing KKK from Adopt-A-Highways, are putatively prohibited by the state under the passages you quoted.
Ah. I wasn’t aware Cruz was considered really libertarian, or favored by Debbie for that matter. Cruz seems establishment to me. A caricature, as they usually are. He sure sounds confused.
Yeah, confused enough to be one of only 15 U.S. Senators to vote No on NDAA 2014. On balance this is pretty libertarian:
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Ted_Cruz.htm
@Debbie
He (Cruz) appears to be a reactionary, almost comically ultra-conservative, and as I said a caricature, in my opinion. I haven’t studied him in depth, admittedly.
The link you gave gives no indication what he believes about corporations, the war on drugs, or foreign policy. As these are the sort of areas where I proposed possible alliance with progressives it is hard to confirm your view that he is a libertarian in the terms I’m used to.
But I do feel I know your perspective better now.
“unite over anti-war and anti-corporatism (anti-crony-capitalism) could be an alignment that is quintessentially American, an alliance which defangs the worst abuse of government without either side ultimately compromising its principles. It is not an easy alliance, but it seems at least possible.”
Without pigeon-holing groups (which makes progress, more often than not, impossible because of ideology trumping pragmatism), this idea presented, in my view, is what needs to happen in order to affect the change needed.
Hi Cindy –
Am in agreement with you – and Sillyputty, that those groups – us – need to come together. Enough of the “divide and conquer” – unity iw what will help defeat the abusive forces we face.
Found another Islamophobe:
That vile bigotry was authored by (surprise) Jonathan Turley. I went looking for commentary on the Awlaki memo, but found that instead. With all that seething hatred for Muslims, maybe he rejoices in Awlaki’s death in spite of legal principles, and that’s why he hasn’t commented on the memo.
Barncat — Are the incidents recounted by Turley factually false? Does an atheist in a community governed by Sharia law not face a degree of risk greater than exists in Western countries? I claim no expertise in these matters, but it seems that Turley would have to be fabricating events in order for his post to qualify as vile bigotry.
I agree, but that’s not the prevailing standard for Islamophobia on the “left”. All it takes is an unfavorable comparison of Islam to any other religion. It’s dogmatic that Islam is no worse (or better?) than other religions – for example, there is nothing in the doctrine of Islam that makes its faithful adherents more prone to violence than Christians or Jews. To put forth that opinion is to instantly reveal oneself as a bigot. Also, repeated negative criticism of Islam, while exempting other religions from the same degree of scrutiny, is sufficient evidence of bigotry. Obviously, “a disproportionate fixation on that group for sins committed at least to an equal extent by many other groups, especially one’s own” can’t be inferred from the one Turley post, but he did make the unfavorable comparison. I’m afraid to look further.
So, I was being sarcastic, Gator. Sorry. I’ve been eagerly awaiting Turley’s analysis of the Awlaki memo, and when I found that newly posted on his blog instead, I couldn’t resist a bit of mischief.
No apology necessary, barncat; I am easily fooled, as my kids well know.
I know little of religious doctrine (including, sadly, the doctrines of my own putative faith, Judaism), but I don’t see from history that the adherents of any of the “Big 3″ monotheistic religions are notably more violence-prone than the others. Christianity obviously has centuries of blood on its hands. Jews come off somewhat better historically, but I suspect this is primarily a function of powerlessness rather than morally superior doctrine. (Once we got some power in Palestine, look what happened.)
Personally, I have no opinion about the religion of Islam (relative to other religions). But as soon as I become aware that an opinion is being prohibited – any opinion – I am going to object. Holocaust denial? Fine, make your case. Potato Famine denial? Well, I would make an exception in that one case. That one is over the line. But no exemption applies to criticism of Islam or Muslims.
Barncat – Condemnation is not prohibition. By expressing an opinion, one assumes the risk of condemnation. I don’t think any opinion should be prohibited, but if I encounter a Holocaust denier, I will likely condemn his or her opinion as bigoted nonsense. I am also likely to condemn an opinion positing that Islam is somehow inherently “worse” than the other 2 major Abrahamic religions.
Some opinions will naturally attract more criticism than others if expressed in the left blogosphere. When I suggest, as I sometimes do, that Israel is not 100% at fault in the I/P conflict, my opinion tends to be harshly condemned. But nobody tells me I can’t say it.
No, that’s true, and important. Sometimes people respond disingenuously to criticism by equating the two. But I do think that the intention behind condemning certain opinions as “bigoted”, as opposed to (or in addition to) dismissing them as ill-informed or poorly reasoned, is (often) to banish (suppress) the opinions. Yes? I don’t want to prohibit accusations of bigotry! I would just like them to be reserved for really, really clear cases – which goes back to our recent conversation, if you recall…
Fair enough, though reasonable minds may differ on what constitutes a really clear case. (Also, the really clear cases are usually more boring…)
Good point(s), Gator … albeit, delivered in a lawyerly gait./
Had thought to wait for our own ‘Sufi Muslim’ to address the true factual issues wrt ‘Muslim countries with Sharia legal systems’ … as I have little experience or expertise in these matters as well.
For the time being, I can leave you with this … of my own free will:
“Every night spirits are released from this cage,
And set free, neither lording it nor lorded over.
At night prisoners are unaware of their prison,
At night kings are unaware of their majesty.
Then there is no thought or care for loss or gain,
No regard to such an one or such an one.
The state of the “Knower” is such as this, even when awake.”
(Mathnavi of Rumi (E.H. Whinfield tr), The Masnavi Vol 1)
One of our teachers, Kabir Helminski, follows a Sufi Order that is based on the teachings of Rumi.
Regarding Shari`ah, just like Islam in general, Shariah is not monolithic either.
Sadly, executing an apostate is in fact considered the maximum penalty to be given to them by several strains within Islam, including its exoteric two streams: the Sunni and the Shia.
The same is true of Blasphemy.
Tragically, it’s very difficult, and downright dangerous, for those Muslims who oppose these injunctions while living in Muslim majority countries.
A governer of a province in Pakistan called for a review of that country’s Blasphemy law, and he was killed by one of his bodyguards, and many exoterically traditional Muslims applauded.
Luckily, despite the growing sentiments against Islam in the West it’s in the West where the Muslims can freely challenge the religious orthodoxy and criticize these laws and try to disprove them through a critical examination of the religious sources with reason; though, sadly, the media don’t educate their viewers with sound bites of these courageous and enlightened Muslims.
To the Sufis, Shariah is simply the outer protective shell that provides a conducive environment to the self to develop so that it reflects the higher qualities, such as selflessness, love, peace, forgiveness, humility, generosity, not seeing otherness, justice, detachment from the transient, letting go of the ego and desires for power and control.
If something doesn’t help achieve that, it’s not part of our Shariah. It’s that simple.
ADDENDUM
One of the leading non-Orthodox, anti-Wahhabi, scholars on Shariah is Dr. Khaled Abou El Fadl.
http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/index.html
Context;Uh 50 years ago or so,did you ever read or hear(if alive,i was)of this issue.I mean,sticking the hornets nest with a lethal implantation(Israel) and stealing their natural resources by installing thug dictators and attacking Islam repeatedly,does elicit responses,just maybe huh?
Just like Islamic terrorism,it didn’t exist or was marginal.
Turley,another Zionist at the spinning wheel,like Old Rumpelstiltskin?Making gold out of BS.
“I went looking for commentary on the Awlaki memo, but found that instead.”
Here’s one:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/18559-feds-release-redacted-drone-memo-justifying-killing-of-americans
Thanks, that one’s pretty good. I guess it comes down to the AUMF (interpretation of), “imminence” and “feasibility of capture”. Those are three high hurdles for the justification, especially the second. But I don’t get all that about Awlaki’s son:
The government has stated repeatedly that Awlaki’s son was not the target of the strike, and that’s even stated in the memo. So, I don’t know what’s up there. Also, the memo is explicitly intended only to deal with Awlaki’s case.
The memo is incredibly dense, even if one skips the footnotes. On this occasion, I just want a really smart expert to tell me what to think…
“The finger that pressed the button launching the lethal ordnance was American, and so was 16-year-old Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, the target of the strike and son of the suspected Svengali of militant Islam.”
I think that Mr. Wolverton is just pointing out that the United States government used deadly force to kill Awlaki’s son (possibly so that he would not avenge the death of his father?) which was a violation of his constitutional right (American Citizen) to trial by jury.
In other words; the Executive branch authorized this murder based on an act (Authorization of the Use of Military Force (AUMF) of congress which was questionably used as authorization to kill the father but did not apply, by any stretch of the imagination, to the son.
Good luck with finding that “smart expert”…..That is supposed to come from the Judicial Branch but they have also been bought by the Central Bankers and now we this to contend with:
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/the-u-s-supreme-court-is-marching-in-lockstep-with-the-police-state_062014
I must admit that the overall situation map looks pretty bleak right now. But then…it is always darkest before the dawn. There are many more people (us) then there are of them (appointed Executives, Congressional representatives, Supreme Court Justices). They can all be removed from their appointed offices if the people (us), stand firmly in a united frontal attack, on the provisions of the Constitution of the United States of America as written – it is still the Supreme Law of the Land.
Thanks for that link, Lyra1.
It was certainly enlightening, though fairly depressing. Glad you have an optimistic attitude. It’s getting harder and harder to keep one up.
Me: “The government has stated repeatedly that Awlaki’s son was not the target of the strike, and that’s even stated in the memo.” That’s dumb, how could that be in the memo? That the memo was only concerning Awlaki – that was in the memo.
This unfortunate man’s own family did this to him. But the situation is useful for justifying disdain and even hatred for Muslims everywhere.
From the International Humanist and Ethical Union, the following:
The site links to a petition established to get him freed.
As though any psychiatrist is capable of diagnosing a sound mind. The whole profession is made up of a bunch of quacks who invented numerous diagnoses (DSM) – without supporting biological evidence – in order to assume a role in the “Medical Profession” for the express purpose of making money in conjunction with their buddies from the Pharmaceutical Industry; who makes their profit by enslaving people to drugs which are often both unproven and unsafe. Particularly the Psychotropic class.
I am not an atheist, but I find all organized religions to be equally detestable. They are institutions, with institutional by-laws, which seek to control the minds and spirits of humanity.
For the above reasons, I have duly noted the petition to free that man. He needs help.
Thanks for posting.
I think you’re right. If you are different, not normal on the ‘willingness to succumb’ scale, you have a “diagnosable” illness.
I take it you are familiar with the work of Thomas Szasz and you are not promoting Scientology. ;)
http://libcom.org/blog/thomas-szasz-antipsychiatry-neoliberalism-22102013
Bruce E. Levine is a worthy descendant of Szasz’s, a fine anti-psychiatrist with a keen political awareness.
http://brucelevine.net/category/bruce-levine-articles/
It’s important to realize that you can’t assume responsibility for your own lives better than an organization of well compensated nannies can that you can entrust with the legitimate state monopoly on small arms. If you just play the banjo and wear camo trousers and advocate for tax money for bigger government control over your lives then your godless, empiricist ideals will be realized.
That’s your solution. Noted. Good to know.
“Democide is a term revived and redefined by the political scientist R. J. Rummel as ‘the murder of any person or people by their government, including genocide, politicide and mass murder.’ Rummel created the term as an extended concept to include forms of government murder that are not covered by the term [genocide], and it has become accepted among other scholars.[1][2][3] According to Rummel, democide passed war as the leading cause of non-natural death in the 20th century.[4][5]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide
_”#S17: Our One Demand Is To End Capitalism“_
http://occupywallst.org/article/s17-our-one-demand-end-capitalism/
“Democracy Now!” reports:
A representative of the influential Shiite cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani called for the creation of what he described as a new “effective” government. On Thursday, The New York Times revealed the U.S. ambassador in Iraq, Robert Beecroft, and the State Department’s top official in Iraq, Brett McGurk, recently met with the controversial Iraqi politician *AHMED CHALABI, who has been described as a potential candidate to replace al-Maliki. Chalabi is the former head of the Iraqi National Congress, a CIA-funded Iraqi exile group that strongly pushed for the 2003 U.S. invasion. The INC helped drum up pre-war claims that Saddam Hussein was developing weapons of mass destruction and had links to al-Qaeda. The group provided bogus intelligence to the Bush administration, U.S. lawmakers and journalists.
http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/ahmed_chalabi_chief_peddler_of_false_wmds_meets_us_officials_20140621
*capitalized emphasis, mine..
That’s just shameless. They want to go from one illegitimate government to one with least possible legitimacy, and thus make things much worse.
Sistani is religious orientated.Maliki must not be,or he wouldn’t have been made President,and Chalabi quite obviously isn’t.We shall see,and hopefully it will be all Iraqis,and not US at all,deciding.
““Why of course the people don’t want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don’t want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
– Hermann Goering
Worth noting that we have a more immediate problem inside the former United States.
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/jun/24/military-us-police-swat-teams-raids-aclu
I direct your attention to the hyperlink, “War Comes Home”, inside the Guardian article.
The U.S. Supreme Court Is Marching in Lockstep with the Police State
snip..
‘The military can arrest and detain American citizens. In refusing to hear Hedges v. Obama (2014), a legal challenge to the indefinite detention provision of the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012 (NDAA), the Supreme Court affirmed that the President and the U.S. military can arrest and indefinitely detain individuals, including American citizens. In so doing, the high court also passed up an opportunity to overturn its 1944 Korematsu v. United States ruling allowing for the internment of Japanese-Americans in concentration camps.’
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-u-s-supreme-court-is-marching-in-lockstep-with-the-police-state/5388364
One reason the Supreme Court didn’t look at Korematsu is because ODOJ didn’t raise the issue.
http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/03/u-s-bypasses-korematsu-plea/
Old procedural rule: a court won’t hear it if you don’t plead it. Mind you, you’d think that Obama and Holder — when contemplating a ruling that says that indefinite detention, on a racial basis, without trial, is justifiable — would want to overturn it, esp. as the 1944 dissents coined the word “racism” to apply to it. You’d think.
@coram nobis
The attempted murder of the 2 year old boy is just one horrible example of SWAT destroying lives under cover of, well, whatever the hell it is that covers their murderous rampages and assaults all over the US. Are their any examples that you know of of prosecutions, at least in the works, of the actual SWAT scum involved in these heinous crimes? Since this attempted murder of the 2 year old boy has become such a high profile incident, why has there not been anyone specific held to account? The ACLU report is moving the issue forward in a big way, but it seems to me that if these monstrous people responsible for these assaults were in real jeopardy of being imprisoned for their actions, their actions would be largely curtailed.
The obvious negligence in the case of the raid that has put the boy’s life on the line should be enough to bring a prosecution. (Decals of family on minivan. Children’s toys in the yard). They had “no idea that children might be in the home.” Really, that it what they are claiming.
Big Government is better government, and Occupy wants more gov’t.
Yeah, you’ve written that lie, a thousand times. It even got you banned. You’re an example of what this statement is about: “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
Do you want Big Government or small government, Kitt? Tell us.
There is no “us” in you. The voices in your head don’t count.
If you continue to stalk me, as you have done so often before, I, again, won’t put up with it, and you will be banned again. Maybe you should look for some other means of feeding your illness.
No you get on here and tell the board you’re going to write a letter to the publishers of the site to get me banned because you don’t like the way I talk about Occupy like you did last time.
Tell this commentariat now, Kitt, what you prefer: Big Government or small government. Because the irony in your invocation of the Einstein quote is glaring.
No, I don’t care about how you “talk about” your fake occupy. What I care about is you stalking me and following anything and everything that I post, no matter the subject, with one of your fake occupy comments. The stalking is what I wrote to whomever is responsible for banning. And so you were banned. That’s what will happen again if you don’t stop stalking me.
“Yeah, you’ve written that lie, a thousand times. It even got you banned.”
-Kitt
25 Jun 2014 at 10:09 am
Big Government or small gov’t, Kitt?
Because you get on here with all this lugubriousness and gnashing of teeth about what police-state does.
Do you separate the hyper-state from the police state? Are you under progressive leftist mind control that won’t let you admit that they are one and the same, and will your peers think less of you if admit that?
What’s the reason for the silence on that?
Because you no doubt are attempting to sway public opinion same as I. The difference being that like the progressive left is notorious for throughout history, you wish to silence dissidents rather than challenge them with vacant leftist rhetoric.
Here’s the deal, shitbag: I’ve posted thousands of comments since “Unclaimed Territory” through Salon, The Guardian and now The Intercept. That doesn’t add up to “silence.” Now fuck off. If you must continue to feed your disease, feed your disease someplace else.
@Kitt:
Offhand, can’t think of many. There is the case of Amadou Diallo in 1999, which may be an early and typical example.
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Shooting_of_Amadou_Diallo
41 rounds fired, 19 hits, unarmed suspect, wrong suspect. I also have to wonder about present-day police training, 19 hits when the one would do — and out of 41 sprayed in an urban neighborhood. This kind of hair-trigger, empty-your-magazine reaction seems to be more and more common. It’s not just the weaponry, although the shift away from revolvers meant the police had pistols with much lighter trigger pulls and larger (magazine) ammo loads.
In any event, once that raid on that family, once initiated, was going to cause that mayhem simply because it had all been set up in advance: training, tactics, mindset. Inevitable.
Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America’s Police Forces [-radley balko]
snip..
‘The last days of colonialism taught America’s revolutionaries that soldiers in the streets bring conflict and tyranny. As a result, our country has generally worked to keep the military out of law enforcement. But according to investigative reporter Radley Balko, over the last several decades, America’s cops have increasingly come to resemble ground troops. The consequences have been dire: the home is no longer a place of sanctuary, the Fourth Amendment has been gutted, and police today have been conditioned to see the citizens they serve as an other—an enemy.’
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16043524-rise-of-the-warrior-cop
Police overkill has become the default American policy
The term “police state” used to be brushed off as paranoid hyperbole. Not anymore:
Chase Madar, TomDispatch
http://www.salon.com/2013/12/09/police_overkill_has_become_the_default_american_policy_partner/
“First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—
and there was no one left to speak out for me.”
? Martin Niemöller
yes Coram~this is what I was thinking~it is a problem and one we should not avoid looking at while we talk about foreign countries and the issues there. :-)
Numerous alternative media sites have been reporting on the “police” state for years now. Many of those sites have been labeled by the MSM (and certain pseudo intellectuals) as “not reputable”, and the journalists have been tagged as “Conspiracy Theorists.” There is then, clear, motivation to downgrade the efforts of those publications – which are coming from all political sectors – and the journalists who are attempting to expose the world government control plot (NWO) and the descent of the United States into a dictatorship model of government.
Therein lies a strong case for absolute preservation of Amendment II of the Constitution of the United States of America; as well as all of the other Amendments of the Constitution. If the people of the United States fail to stand on those provisions at this time in history, we become “toast” to be eaten by the elite.
The fact that the ACLU is reporting on the militarization of government agencies such as the DHS, FEMA, Law Enforcement agencies, CIA, etc…etc; substantiates the evidence produced by the “conspiracy theorists”; and will hopefully serve as an added impetus to fight against the annihilation of freedom by the imposing government forces of destruction.
“Two new reports have discovered how “legal malware” from Hacking Team can be used to gain complete control of mobile devices. The Italian company is suspected of offering its services to dozens of governments.
Operating since 2001, the Milan-based company – which employs over 50 people – promises to “take control of your targets and monitor them regardless of encryption and mobility,” while “keeping an eye on all your targets and manage them remotely, all from a single screen.”
Previous research showed that these claims were true for desktop computers, but according to data obtained separately by Russian security firm Kaspersky Lab and University of Toronto’s Citizen Lab (which also obtained a user manual), Hacking Team is just as adept at penetrating mobile phones with a tool known as Remote Control Systems (RCS). ”
Full article at: http://rt.com/news/168228-hacking-team-smartphones-malware/
In case anyone would like to have some fun…Watch this dancing by April Verch as her band plays Sandy River Belle. When April isn’t busy with the dancing she plays fiddle — sometimes she does both at the same time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfido7BtbVQ
Thanks. Nice diversion.
I like this one too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZVattOiA4o
The US might have briefly felt justified in thinking it was the city on the hill after WWII, but that time has long since passed. We’re not the repository of the world’s brightest and most ethical people and, though I live here, when I see us more concerned with extending our power than achieving wisdom and character, I fear for the planet. We’ve repeatedly proven our ineptitude all over the world. Why would a government agree to let us tap its communications?
Rudy has posted a correction about Awlaki’s son being with him. Awlaki’s son was targeted and destroyed at a later date, so it was hardly coincidental damage.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-drone-murder-memo-your-puny-laws.html
Rudy still has a valid point regarding ODOJ’s perverse, obtuse logic on how 18 USC 1119 (murder) does’t apply. It’s worthy of a John Yoo or a Jay Bybee in its one-and-one-makes-three legal reasoning, and it’s a product of ODOJ, not WDOJ. Rudy also has good points on their citation of the “public authority justification.”
Also, notice this tweet from Jeremy Scahill:
And more analysis from ACLU, a litigant in this discovery:
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/five-takeaways-newly-released-drone-memo
Did you see this, coram? Obama cites Israeli Supreme Court to justify killing Americans without trial. Talk about international law(lessness). :'(
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/rania-khalek/obama-cites-israeli-supreme-court-justify-killing-americans-without-trial
Holy [redacted].
There’s also this citation Rudy found, ” … the use of an 1897 definition of murder from a British law book, where we’re told that “Murder is when a man of sound memory, and of the age of discretion, unlawfully killeth within any county of the realm any reasonable creature in rerum natura under the king’s peace.” The use of the word “killeth” is the least disconcerting aspect of that sentence.”
One thing people pick up in 1st-year legal drafting is that if you have to dig for obscure and tangential references, your case is weak. They might just as well have cited the Ribbentrop-Molotov treaty or the Malleus Maleficarum. They really have gone John Yoo on us.
Yes, the key disconcerting word is ‘unlawfully’. Laws are malleable, like words
[They] strain,
Crack and sometimes break, under the burden,
Under the tension, slip, slide, perish,
Decay with imprecision, will not stay in place,
Will not stay still.
but worse, they can be bought.
my deep apology to TS Eliot.
The Rude Pundit? Seriously?
You can tell a lot about a “blogger” by their blogroll. 2002 called, they want their digby, atrios, and daily kos back.
We’ll always have Dan Savage.
Did he lick enough office doorknobs?
Americans agree the US president has the right to kill non-citizens; it’s not even necessary for the DOJ to write a memo. So it seems only fair that he has the right to kill Americans too – after all, they elected him. As Joseph de Maistre wrote, “every nation gets the government it deserves”.
It’s a question of characterization, Duce. The President can quite readily kill people on the battlefield, and cluster bomb units don’t verify nationality before they land. US police also routinely kill suspects under the “public authority justification”, that is, heat of police pursuit. However, our President has a little list of names, apparently drawn up by a OWH committee, and that’s a trifle different.
Seems a small distinction, but it’s the difference between a Commander-in-Chief and a capo dei tutti capi.
If a president can arbitrarily and unilaterally start a war where millions of people die, why shouldn’t he have the power to kill a single individual? Is the death of an individual more important than the death of millions? The difference between Commander in Chief and Capo dei tutti Capi is not a fine legal one, but simply a reflection of relative firepower. But what if a president wishes to downgrade his killing capability – to declare war on a group or even on a single individual. He in effect wishes to become a capo. If you believe that killing is wrong, then this would be a step in the right direction.
Certainly the selectivity is more precise, Duce. The former United States has a problem with the public authority justification running amok.
http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Frightening-ACLU-Report-Shows-How-Militarized-5576073.php
I don’t remember this problem with your carabinieri, in your day. Police were police and the army was busy waging war overseas. It may have been more benign than what we have now in gli Stati Uniti.
An interesting equivalence, Duce, è vero?
Technology improves, but human nature remains unchanged.
@ Benito Mussolini
Circle of life… waste not, want not, and all that jazz. You confuse the animal kingdom with human reality: all things are subdued by the hand of man. .. including ‘nature’.
“Praise be to God! man is always turned toward the heights, and his aspiration is lofty; he always desires to reach a greater world than the world in which his is, and to mount to a higher sphere than that in which he is. The love of exaltation is one of the characteristics of man. I am astonished that certain philosophers of America and Europe are content to gradually approach the animal world and so to go backward; for the tendency of existence must be toward exaltation. Nevertheless, if you said to one of them, “You are an animal,” he would be extremely hurt and angry.”
You should stick to making the trains run on time, B’toe. You ain’t gonna make it as a philosopher.
@bahhummingbug
…and to get there, is all too often willing to kill anyone who gets in his way.
…and so completely fails to appreciate the world he actually lives in.
…only because of their false belief in their own superiority. It is important to see human beings as they actually are, rather than as the idealized beings of their own imagination. Understanding human nature invariably leads to the conclusion that humans need strong laws with stringent penalties to enforce proper behavior. Contrary to the fond imaginings of the anarchists, when social order collapses, as during the French revolution, the result is generally a blood bath until some strong individual succeeds in restoring order.
Exactly. When people promote a simple solution to all the world’s problems, they leave a wake of chaos and destruction. When they concentrate on actually solving just one simple problem, they may actually achieve something.
No philosopher is going to make it as a leader – although they all fantasize about it. That’s because actions are more important than words.
*Iraq vets say Obama’s promise of no combat for U.S. advisers will be hard to keep*
“‘Combat is an elastic term when you talk about special operations guys, because you never know what they’re going to be doing,’ [said] van Wey, who now does marketing for a military apparel firm in Fort Worth, Texas, said in an interview. ‘The nature of these guys’ jobs is covert. When you send in special operations, they leave a smaller footprint than infantry or other conventional forces. That’s how they get around violating the spirit of ‘no boots on the ground.’ Others who served in Iraq said that once the new U.S. troops are embedded with their Iraqi counterparts, all bets are off, because there are few safe havens in a very dangerous country. ‘It’s a stretch to say they won’t see combat,’ Eric Young, a former Marine corporal who fought in Fallujah during two deployments to Iraq, told McClatchy. ‘More than likely those Green Berets will take up leadership roles in the Iraqi military. They may not be doing a lot of fighting, but they won’t just sit back and call for support. They’re there to lead from the front. You don’t lead from the back.’
http://www.sacbee.com/2014/06/20/6500233/iraq-vets-say-obamas-promise-of.html
Taking up leadership roles. I suppose if Sir Sidney Smith, Glubb Pasha and T.E. Lawrence could do it in that general part of the world, well …
Obama the ‘environmentalist’ demonstrates once again he’s actually a corporate whore (with a kill list):
*U.S. Ruling Loosens Four-Decade Ban On Oil Exports*
“Under current rules, companies can export refined fuel, such as gasoline and diesel, but not oil itself. The Administration’s new approach, which hasn’t been publicly announced, redefines some ultra-light oil as fuel after it has been minimally processed, making it eligible for sale abroad.”
http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/u-s-ruling-would-allow-first-shipments-of-unrefined-oil-overseas-1403644494-lMyQjAxMTA0MDIwNDEyNDQyWj
Capitalists surprised at their leader being a corporate bagman: news at 11!
Cindy 22 Jun 2014 at 5:05 pm
@Put Stars By It.
To demonstrate you are not just an estranged disturber, and to give an indication of the direction from which your criticisms actually arise (other than that you are a self-proclaimed ‘True Leftist,’ please reveal your favorite American politicians and media outlets.
Above all, please declare whether or not you consider the Constitution the law of the land.
@ Kitt and Cindy (for writing it):
I like it. Mind if I use this elsewhere?
Cindy wrote it, so you’ll have to ask only her. I’ve been using it for it’s originally intended purpose.
No problem.
Have to be able to export the oil from Keystone XL, you see. It’s no good if it can’t leave the country.
The NSA is getting this kind of cooperation from other counties because the state regardless of governing systems wants to spy on the states traditional enemy. The state’s own citizenry. This isn’t a big surprise other than the staggering amount of data they can be collect. This was inevitable as the state trying to keep tabs on its population and with the push for this kind of technology it’s only get better (or worse depending on the point-of-view) and more sophisticated.
I honestly don’t know where people can go from here. The state is starting to become a dark monstrosity with little regard for the rights of people. The idea of basic human rights are being disregarded with the advent of new technology that gives the state greater tools to dominate and control its citizens. Unmanned unaccountable robotic flying death machines gliding across the skies of the world killing people for committing the crime of unwanted thoughts. Unregulated ultra-mega-colossal data machines gathering mind numbing amounts of information that people didn’t even know was possible yet.
The nature of the ruling class and their indoctrinated functionaries, with ever more powerful tools at their disposable, could be ushering in the darkest age in human history. Possibly the end of life as we know it. No biblical prophecy or messiahs. Just a cold dark planet with a bunch of human ruins spinning around the sun. My cynicism has led me to the hope that I will outlive the coming collapse. I do not share my bleak thoughts with my loved ones, but these fears do fill my mind.
Ode to George Orwell – And a hope of a different history. A new Catalina
I don’t hope to outlive the coming collapse. I hope to die before it happens. Because after it happens, it’s really going to suck.
I agree with one difference. Its not coming. Its here. My brother subscribes to a police watch website and the things he describes are often worse or close to any fascist state ever. Busting doors down, beating people senseless, driving swat team cars in to check simple violations. I wonder if its more than just the average power crazed police group because it seems to be happening everywhere and although surveillance and the fact of too much is my interest more than the police watch stuff(almost too brutal to indulge in even reading)I wonder if we are all missing that boat as it sails into a neighborhood near you type of thing. Did anyone watch the Mediastan movie about wikileaks that was suggest on this page by another reader? It was sorta depressing how nobody would print anything in any country. Its a world wide issue with thuggery and fear of the state. Its just really become a world wide thing that the US said,”heh, isn’t it time for us to join the crowds of mafioso thuggery and turn the screws on our people”. YEs its here. and what to do now?
In which the Rude Pundit reflects on the newly-released ODOJ kill-justification memo.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-drone-murder-memo-your-puny-laws.html
Rudy on the redactions:
Rude Pundit has the following wrong, and it’s very important to the story:
His son never found his father, and so wasn’t traveling with him. Also, unless I’m misunderstanding Rude Pundit’s writing about the scenario of the drone strike deaths, he seems to be saying that his son was killed along with his father in one single drone strike , “as was another American jihadi with him.”
His son was killed in a separate drone strike two weeks after his father was killed in a drone strike. The US government lied that they were targeting some specific someone else when they murdered the son, but that lie fell apart almost immediately.
I noticed that too. Unfortunately, it’s a rumor based in a misunderstanding that has spread and taken hold.
You could email him the correct information, or if you don’t want to, I will.
Not a matter of “don’t want to.” I’m not doing it at the moment but I might and should get around to it later. But no harm at all in him having multiple emails in his inbox with the correct information, so by all means, go for it.
Done.
Kitt, check out Rude Pundit’s blog – he’s already corrected the error.
Seer, glad he corrected it so quickly. He still wrote “one month later” in error rather than ‘two weeks’ later, but that’s not nearly as vital as what he was incorrect about before. Thanks for taking the time to email the information to him.
I see. How odd. I sent him this link – http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/how-team-obama-justifies-the-killing-of-a-16-year-old-american/264028/ – in which the two week time is clearly stated.
Making sure bourgeois bloggers get their facts right. It’s the right thing to do!
“…American jihadi…”
——————————–
The term, Jihadi, used exclusively to refer to a person who supports or carries out violence, and is a Muslim, takes away the spiritual significance of the term, Jihad, to peace loving, traditional and regular Muslims, especially the universalist, Sufi Muslims.
See this article by an eminent scholar:
http://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/vol-9-no-1/spiritual-significance-jihad-seyyed-hossein-nasr/spiritual-significance-jihad
Appreciate that. Thought about you when I saw Rude Pundit write that and when I quoted it.
I don’t hang out here much, nor do I look at most of the comments. So I saw that by coincidence.
The thing is this: we, peace loving and very moderate Muslims, are often asked to take Islam back from the extremists, something we have wanted to, and have been doing it, for about 1400 years, little known to the West, I might add.
Yes, 1400 years!
It’s not a typo. :-)
And one way to try to take it back is by taking away the religious terminology and symbols they use to justify violence, and give them their original, spiritual, meanings.
They are ignorants and often carry out evil acts.
But why is it that the non-Muslims, often the same ones who demand that we take Islam back from the extremists, invent and popularize terms that are based on those religious terms that have spiritual significance to us and don’t have the popular meanings for us?
Many of these non-Muslims are quite educated and well-informed.
I’ve also seen that they use the terms “Islamism” and “Islamic” as well as the terms, “Islamists” and “Muslims” interchangeably, often in the same paragraph, which only creates the impression amongst their non-Muslim readers that they refer to the same.
No wonder, then, that some of them show up to protest the construction of mosques and Islamic centers, thinking that they are for the Islamists and the promotion of Islamism, and not for the Muslims, ordinary that is, and Islam – the religion, respectively.
That said, it appears to be a losing battle. The intensity at which these terms are thrown around by the media, writers and political leaders is too much.
What a great line, coram!
And here, an Israeli Supreme Court decision is used to justify extra legal murder of American citizens.
[snip]
[snip]
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/rania-khalek/obama-cites-israeli-supreme-court-justify-killing-americans-without-trial
A small correction: Rudy mistakenly claims Anwar al Awlaki’s son was with him at the time; the sixteen year old Abdulrahman was apparently killed in a separate strike two weeks later, along with a friend of his and some others, as they sat outdoors at a café. Anwar’s son had been trying to find out where his father was, it seems. The US govt claims Abdulrahman was not the target of this later strike, which actually means this teenaged American citizen was considered collateral damage – a stunning thing to point out, but there it is. Some have pointed out this second strike is suspiciously like a mafia hit on a son (or daughter) who might someday decide to avenge the father’s murder.
David Swanson also has a few words on this subject of the memo:
“Then there are the vastly more numerous killings of non-U.S. citizens, which the memo does not even attempt to excuse. In the end, the memo admits that calling something a war isn’t good enough; the targeted victim has to have been an imminent threat to the United States. But who gets to decide whether he or she was that? Why, whoever does the killing of course. And what happens if nobody ever even makes an unsupported assertion to that effect? Nothing, of course. This is not the rule of law. This is savage brute force in minimal disguise. I don’t want to see any more of these memos. I want to see the video footage of the drone murders on a television. I want to see law professors and revolving-door State Department / human rights group hacks argue that dead children fall under the public authority justification.”
http://my.firedoglake.com/davidswanson/2014/06/23/so-thats-why-they-kept-the-drone-kill-memo-secret/
I see others noticed this!
That’s really awful. “It’s a novel twist, though, for the government to get to use force to violate the law, claiming the violation is legal on the Nixonian basis that it is the government doing it.” That’s just gibberish. All he’s doing is fuming. There’s no reasoning in that piece at all.
The NYT editorial page did a good job, as did the ACLU. And Hina Shamsi was superb on Democracy Now!
The ACLU critique is indeed brilliant. Perhaps I’m fuming, too; I appreciated Swanson’s rant, personally.
What a great line, coram!
And here, an Israeli Supreme Court decision is used to justify extra legal murder of American citizens.
[snip]
[snip]
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/rania-khalek/obama-cites-israeli-supreme-court-justify-killing-americans-without-trial
and by the way, I am using:
$ firefox -version
Mozilla Iceweasel 10.0.4
on
$ uname -a
Linux Microknoppix 3.3.7 #38 SMP PREEMPT Tue May 22 06:21:01 CEST 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
Have you tried a different browser? Also, it may be some sort of JavaScript problem. You might try checking the JavaScript console for errors.
Now that is unusual….
Is that some type of tablet OS?
Researched slightly….There may be some problem with TOR browsers and comment filtering/sequencing on this website.
Contact the IT Dept of the Intercept: Link Follows:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/staff/micah-lee/
He is an avid Linux User.
One user experienced the same problem running with Javascript disabled. Enabling Javascript fixed the problem. (It does appear that there is an event handler assigned to the “Post Comment” button.)
Hopefully Micah Lee will be able to resolve the problem that RCLopez is having.
His OS is rather obscure, looks to be somewhat specific, and he is running a TOR browser which might not be compatible with the security allowances and comment sequencing in this forum.
they should have specified which Korea (technically there is “North” and “South”)
RCLopez
Hmm. Well, I don’t know what to say, RC…what browser are you using, and do you have cookies disabled? Just reaching for clues…
A new Argentina…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Spy3Nd2D6w
“Crash and burn, Mav?” -slider
$236,637,271,000,000 – According to the U.S. government, this is the total exposure that the top 25 banks in the United States have to derivatives contracts. But those banks only have total assets of about 9.4 trillion dollars combined. In other words, the exposure of our largest banks to derivatives outweighs their total assets by a ratio of about 25 to 1.
http://www.occ.gov/topics/capital-markets/financial-markets/trading/derivatives/dq413.pdf
suave, it used to be 70 to 1. But must agree, it is still circus peanut money. See Gretchen Morgenson for some real onion powder. It’s the bucketshop, Chinatown.
Did you know the Treasury stopped reporting M3? This CDS funny money, just as they pulled the 30 year bond and replaced them with Freddie’s Fanny and her sister, Sallie? M3 was nearing unreality and nearly gave away their game. There is no slope at verticallity.
The UK still measures it because they seem to give a tit about money.
We seem to be heading for the Brazillan eco-model. OMG, my butt is so flat.
Shhh! Don’t talk so loud!
Nothing to see here, folks! The global financial system is just peachy! No worries!
This is the second time that I have attempted to reply to this comment. Please excuse any possible duplicate comment.
It is all economic voodoo to me.
Of course, if one considers that the American Dollar never was worth anymore than the paper upon which it is printed, it is totally understandable why people are not willing to accrue a “derivative contract” in an interest rate product. Why pay interest on something is really only valuable to serve as fire kindling.
Let it burn. All prior debts are off. Humanity will survive with ingenuity, barter, and the formation of cooperatives.
“When the last tree is cut down
the last river poisoned
the last fish caught.
Then only will man discover that he can not eat money.” Cree Indian Wisdom
Perhaps it’s time for re-establishing debt clemency (aka, forgiving debt nation or society wide), as in resetting the debt-clock completely for everyone, as many societies have done over the ages.
This once pragmatic solution seems to have been abandoned, even though modern economies are no more “real” than any of the previous economic systems have been, nor are they that much more effective in providing a stable standard of living for all humans on the planet.
In other words, much like the tag line on the TV show “Who’s Line Is It Anyway,” “it’s all made up and the points don’t matter.”
“As it turns out, we don’t “all” have to pay our debts. Only some of us do.”
– David Graeber, Debt: The First 5,000 Years
Maybe it would be better to get the private, bloodthirsty bankers out of controlling the Public’s money supply and monetary policy, and follow the US Constitution in regards to how money is created and managed. The reason we and the world are in so much debt is that those criminal bankers make fortunes on our debt load so there are no debt ceilings that aren’t busted through.
If we owned the debt load, we could set lower interest rates on our debt, depending on purpose, and use the interest we do collect to pay the debt down, and thus be much more careful with our spending and borrowing (money creation).
@ Seer:
Absolutely. This should be of first priority to correct the problems that the U.S. Citizens have experienced both with basic survival and with a dictatorial government. Economic enslavement constitutes a prison without walls. The Central Bankers (Federal Reserve, IMF, World Bank, BIS) must go.
@Sillyputty:
Automatic debt clemency with concurrent award of all material property presently under debt contract automatically awarded to the debtor; for any interest bearing transaction based upon the dollar currency, with any financial or lending institution.
Sounds good to me. That would be a fair settlement in terms of justice.
Free energy is available now and could be implemented quickly.
It is just a choice between fear and love.
I believe that more of humanity will choose love but first; individuals must be able to isolate the most critical issue to freedom. At this time, chaos is prevalent which makes clear focus difficult.
The path to freedom lies with economic and energy independence for all of humanity.
I’m very tired of being stalked and psychologically tortured everywhere I go. I’m nothing more than a scientist that advocates for non-violence, equal opportunity, and civil rights. Can you please help stop them GG?
Meanwhile, upon hearing the USgovt gave the Egyptian totalitarian coup-regime billion$ in US taxpayer money and, oh yeah, Apache helicopters — “to push back against terrorism,” it occurred there’s probably something significant missing from that narrative.
When Egyptians realize AFRICOM drones in their skies were an unspoken part of that deal, will they really be feeling “less terrorized” by that…?
I couldn’t believe that! First there were hundreds of political prisoners, then many death sentences, now some journalists jailed. And we restore their aid – not impose any sanctions? There’s something wrong with this picture…
hello, just thought I’d wade into the debate.
Let’s fight surveillance abuses together. Why does this matter? Because it’s being used to destroy lives. Let’s end discrediting and disruption campaigns. Join us. Twitter: @danlm12 Daniel Lebowitz MD
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
I am an innocent victim of this technnology. Please post targeet names. I pray someone sees this that can help me 3 yrs now controlled. and damaged technology
Money Talks And Those Without Money Have No Voice
A new study confirms the obvious: the will of the people carries no weight in the United States. Within the nation’s borders democracy is everywhere proclaimed but nowhere to be found. These truths we hold to be self-evident: “ordinary citizens have virtually no influence over what their government does in the United States.”
Too many Americans love to boast that the United States is a democracy. That idea is accepted uncritically and celebrated as proof of this country’s superiority. Every public activity and event is an opportunity for the false narrative to be repeated and indulged. Events as disparate as elections, holiday celebrations, advertisements, school commencements and religious worship are all used to propagandize and create false belief about the degree of power the average citizen has vis a vis their government.
That story is based on the recently published Gilens & Page study – Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens. It’s good to see it’s being reported on and the word is spreading.
https://www.princeton.edu/~mgilens/Gilens%20homepage%20materials/Gilens%20and%20Page/Gilens%20and%20Page%202014-Testing%20Theories%203-7-14.pdf
More than based on. The study is the theme of what the article is about, and the study is referenced and linked. I realize that you most likely know that, but I’m explaining it for any others who maybe read only what I excerpted rather than clicking the link.
Here’s more from the article!:
“The myth of American democracy is just one of many that are cherished out of ignorance and suspension of disbelief but that is not a reason to continue the confusion and self-delusion. The only time we get any taste of democracy is when we proclaim that we don’t have it but assert plainly and loudly that we intend to get it.”
Thank you both – I’m particularly tired of the meme that America is a “capitalist democracy.”
Cognitive dissonance².
Sounds like Lundberg 2.0.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Myth-Democracy-Ferdinand-Lundberg/dp/0818405007
See, I’ve never read this, but I know “America’s 60 Families” scent. This is the intro I was linking for. Basically, the establishment of “…the living center of the modern industrial oligarchy which dominates the United States, functioning discreetly under a de jure democratic form of government behind which a de facto form of government, absolutist and plutocratic in its lineaments, has gradually taken place since the Civil War.”
If you don’t start at the very beginning, the birth of corporatism, then you will not know the right notes to hit when Maria calls for you to sing. Digest Lundberg and you got the whole enchilada wrapped up from 1865 to 1937. You’re welcome. It’s out of print and been freed by the will of the owner.
http://www.pdfarchive.info/pdf/L/Lu/Lundberg_Ferdinand_-_America_s_60_Families.pdf
Just reiterating Sillyputty’s remark.
Thanks.
It’s a democracy for the bourgeoisie. You of all people, participating in the sham that it is by voting and encouraging other people to vote, should understand that. Why am I not surprised you don’t.
It’s astonishing is that you people are just now understanding this. Wow. It’s always so entertaining when members of the working class or even the petit realize their precious capitalism is taking them for a ride. LOL.
@ PutShitIntoThe Equation:
Have you noticed that you have been identified as a troll?
“Kitt
24 Jun 2014 at 7:12 pm
Cindy 22 Jun 2014 at 5:05 pm
@Put Stars By It.
To demonstrate you are not just an estranged disturber, and to give an indication of the direction from which your criticisms actually arise (other than that you are a self-proclaimed ‘True Leftist,’ please reveal your favorite American politicians and media outlets.
Above all, please declare whether or not you consider the Constitution the law of the land.”
Expect this re-indentification process from me every time you comment on a subthread that I have commented on.
Thanks for the link. Good article; I also bookmarked her blog!
“money is free speech” *Sen. Mitch McConnell
Well, Cojones, in What way is this related to the John Temple Story?
GG interviewed by Ronan Farrow today. Good stuff!
http://www.msnbc.com/ronan-farrow/watch/what-does-terrorism-really-mean-287238211926
Better link to that event – http://www.haymarketbooks.org/event/4116
The haymarket link belongs here: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/06/18/nsa-surveillance-secret-cable-partners-revealed-rampart-a/#comment-49655
I was impressed by the host and his questions but not by Glenn, who avoided the questions like a politician. First, Glen implied that the U.S. are the real terrorists. When pressed by the host, he backed off and instead complained about other unmentioned persons’ use of the word “terrorism” as an end-all to conversations. That may be true (e.g. the Republican warhawks) but Glenn did not answer the damn question. Nor did he answer the original question that was raised in the first place: Is ISIS a terrorist group? He said there’s no objective definition (true, one man’s terrorist is another man’s holy warrior) but he didn’teven attempt to define what “terrorist” SHOULD mean!
In contrast, Max Boot has done a fairly good job defining the term “terrorist.” He says in his recent book:
He also says that terrorists typically don’t try to hold territory. With this definition, which I find fairly reasonable, ISIS is NOT a terrorist group but more resemblant of a conventional army or group of guerrillas. After all, they are controlling swathes of West Iraq.
Glenn gives no such perspective. He also avoids the host’s question on whether the U.S. drone strike on Aulaqi was “terrorism.” He goes back to the broken-record claim that there is no objective definition; yet he simultaneously criticizes other’s definitions. It’s having his cake and eating it too. If other people’s definitions of what constitute “terrorism” are wrong, set the record straight by giving your opinion of what best describes it.
Lastly, Glenn doesn’t seem to grasp that the days of “traditional battlefields,” if they ever existed at all, aren’t applicable with enemies such as Al Qaeda, ISIS, and non-state actors. If a group such as Qaeda leaves Afghanistan for Yemen, Sudan, or Somalia, do we just say “aw shucks” and do nothing!? Any person can point their finger and say what is wrong with a situation, but you earn respect by articulating what you believe are remedies and solutions. Look at the ACLU for example; they are clearly an advocacy group but if you read their reports, they clearly do a ton of research, lay out long term goals and ideals, but also approach them practically with incremental solutions. I do not exaggerate when I say that I have not once witnessed a solution from Glenn Greenwald, and it is a damning weakness and an insult to readers like myself who value context, an effort at impartiality, and an actionable path forward.
aka, Max Boot!
(Emphasis mine)
It’s like you live on a different planet where some language is spoken that has no way of comprehending or relating to the English language. It’s as if you are trying to win some contest to see how many words you can use to say absolutely fucking nothing.
I know that your comeback — if you have one — will be for some specifics of some shit, but, as I said, you didn’t say anything. You weren’t even addressing anything that Glenn actually said. You pulled gobbledegook out of your ear holes and various other places of your choosing and pretended that you were posting a response to something that you incoherently twisted into balloon animals.
I didn’t see or hear the same interview that you and your balloon animals think you saw or heard.
Kitt – you are such an uninteresting person to engage. Your post are just ad hominem attacks.
And your reading comprehension is nonexistent. My post clearly refers to the contents of the video. How much hand holding do you need? Shall I annotate and reference my prior post!? I can certainly do so. Or better yet, you can always ask for clarification. That’s what people do when they actually want to engage in a discussion. But you won’t because you don’t care. You are here to bitch and fight, and you don’t even do a good job with that.
Second, you appear to assume I am Max Boot? Seriously, what’s the basis for this genius deduction? That I have read one of his books and quoted him!? It’s absurd.
Considering your bullshit claim that I said nothing related to the video, do you not see the hypocrisy in your literally saying nothing of substance or even attempting to rebut or argue my post?
Your post is the epitome of psychological projection
No, which I clearly explained in my post to your nothing post. And, you aren’t “engaging” me or, as far as I can tell, engaging anyone else either. One can’t “engage” people with incoherent non decipherable bull shit, because there is nothing to engage with. And no, I’m not “assuming that you are Max Boot; just that you are similarly warped as Max Boot. You see, that’s how incapable you are of actually understanding what is written or said?
Maybe someone will come along who will humor you or find something in your post to either make sense of or help you to make sense of your nonsense, but I doubt it. Good luck, though.
Hi Nate –
Gee – it doesn’t seem as though we were watching the same interview. I looked at it very differently and thought Glenn answered well. It seemed to me that Glenn was making the point that the word “terrorist” is so bandied about – used to accuse anyone not on “our” side that it is no longer an objective term . There may be, as you claim, an objective definition, but that objectivity is probably not honored so much in its present usage.
As far as your criticism of Glenn not offering any solutions, that may or may not be his job. Of course the situation is calling out for some solutions; maybe TI could have a guest author who might posit some. Meanwhile, do YOU have any?
I do have many suggestions, mostly in the realm of the metadata program and overall changes to congressional and FISC oversight. To name a few:
* Put in new measures to prevent the FISA court from relying on data given to them by NSA. there needs to be a third party to add objectivity, such as an Inspector General.
* End the metadata program or transfer it to the telecoms. Raise the standard of “reasonable articulable suspicion” (RAS) to a more specific and tougher threshold.
* New rule: if the NSA cannot track stats on the number of Americans whose data is surveilled, they cannot operate such programs.
* I’m all for the special FISC advocate
* Pass legislation to prevent resumption of the domestic internet metadata program (on hiatus in 2009 or 2011, can’t recall which)
* GAO or the IG need to audit the NSA’s over zealous classification of documents and its abuse of FOIA exceptions to maintain transparency.
* move away from bulk collection. Their failure to recognize the Ukrainian and ISIS issues are telling. They appear to be drowning in their own data.
* Require the FISA court review National Security Letters.
I also agree with a lot of the PCLOB and President Review Group recommendations.
Hey Nate!
Ok, that’s a lot of suggestions! Actually most seem connomsense. Trick is getting them a) enacted and b) getting the NSA and all to abide with therestraints.
Certainly, the FISA Court needs an adversarial component and should be made more transparent. And I totally agree about them moving away from bulk collection – especially when the PCLOB has found it to be so far very ineffective (yeah, and I tried to tell that to my cousin).
On the tech side, a big concern I have is that too many people are buying into the “internet of things . It’s very spooky how these now and future gadgets can track users. Don’t know why anyone is buying into that system.
We need to get crypto systems standard and eliminate NSA backdoors. How could one crypt if one’s contacts don’t and how would it work for mailing lists?
Going on – we need to eliminate the seamlessness of corporate tracking and government tacking. I have a very few of those loyalty cards. They can save me money, no? But since all the NSA revelations have come out, I’ve been loathe to sign up for more. And we haven’t started on the tracking of searches etc. by Google, et al…
BTW, a federal judge just described the present no fly list procedures as unconstitutional.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/06/24/325216937/federal-judge-rules-no-fly-list-process-is-unconstitutional
absolutely awesome response Feline. I agree about the elimination of the section 702 backdoors.
I also hadn’t heard about the contents of the link you provided. Appreciate it.
I agree with Kitt – you are not getting it, Nate. Are you mentally challenged?
You say that Glenn said, … “there is no objective definition” yet he simultaneously criticizes other’s definitions.
That’s incomplete. What he did say is, “There is no objective definition, it’s a debate ending term.”
Did you miss that? – it’s a debate-ending term. It used primarily to shut down debate, and to justify law-breaking by government.
Then he said, “Terrorism really means nothing more than the violence we, our team, want to de-legitimize.”
The term Terrorism™ is a slogan used to stimulate upsetting emotions in those susceptible, creating a state of fear and helplessness that is temporarily abated with promises of false solutions that are prescribed by a leadership that is beholden to a few very wealthy men, unburdened by conscience, who act against the prime human interests of the American people, indeed, against the interests of the entire population of the world.
You claim you want context and impartiality. When a crime is being committed the honest person attempts to stop the crime. That’s what Glenn is doing and there’s nothing impartial about that.
If you truly want context, read G’s books for a start.
What you and Glenn stated are not definitions, but trite platitudes.
If they WERE definitions, I could use them as a framework to answer the question: is ISIS a terrorist group? You know, the question Glenn ignored.
I gave an example via Max Boot’s interpretation but it flew over your (and others, Kitt – if he counts…) head. And it’s only debate ending if you let it. Am i using it to end the debate? No, and hence my point.
Perhaps you can go to the “terrorism” Wikipedia page and get familiarized with the numerous controversial and different definitions. You’ll find they’re nowhere near as mind numbing or prosaic as your definition that you parroted from Glenn (trademark symbol after the word, how edgy!!)
Which was: “terrorism describes the use of violence by non-state actors”–Max Boot
I really hate to use this old well worn and oft abused phrase about making someone’s point, but with that definition by Max Boot, you have precisely made Glenn’s point.
The point is, Nate, the term is used as a means of control. That is its definition. It is a lever pulled, a button pressed, that produces a desired effect or effects. You might get somewhere if you look to the results produced by its use instead of fixating on their catalyst.
Nate — why is “nonstate actors” a necessary component of Boot’s definition of terrorism? What purpose is served by excluding the possibility that governments can commit terrorist acts?
@ Gator
I think Nate has it backwards: State actors (of mass indiscriminate violence) are the terrorists … non-state actors (for the most part) are *criminals*.
~ look at them snappers ~ *Romancing the Stone
Bahhummingbug — I think “terrorism” is a useful word that should be applied to state actors and nonstate actors alike. (You are right that most terrorist acts by nonstate actors are criminal, but it strikes me as a special category of crime.)
Most of Boot’s definition — “the use of violence … directed primarily against noncombatants (mostly civilians but also including government officials, policemen, and off-duty soldiers) in order to intimidate or coerce” — is fine with me. But restricting it to nonstate actors, as he does, seems a fairly transparent attempt to immunize countries such as (to pick two totally random examples) the USA and Israel against accusations of terrorism, irrespective of whether their conduct otherwise warrants the designation.
Its definition is a means of control? That’s plainly not an argument. You could say the same thing about the word “racism” but it is still defined in various ways.
I included that in the definition quoted! I said
No, Nate, you still don’t have it. Terrorism™ is being used as a means to control us, the people of the US, UK, Europe, etc., by our governments so as to force us to rally unthinkingly around our Leaders and agree to accept increasingly gargantuan debt that enriches favored corporations, debt which our great-grandchildren will still be paying because… Terrorism™; to give up our privacy and our constitutional protections because… Terrorism™; to make enemies of half the people on earth because… Terrorism™, and in so doing, the State inflames those created enemies’ rightful attempts to eject us from their lands (and calls that terrorism, when it is in fact the State’s desired effect) and/or incites reactionary terrorism (of the dictionary defined sort) that reaches the civilian populations of the above mentioned states (also a State desired effect).
The State grows rich on war, and endless war reaps endless profits and endlessly expanding powers over its own citizens, now more accurately known as slaves (yet another ardently desired effect).
Gator – you ask a good question and I was wondering the same. I posted his full response just a few moments ago, which isn’t very satisfying to me (it should be in the vicinity of this comment so I won’t repost) but he also says:
“A few other salient differences are worth noting: guerrillas often try to hold territory, however briefly; terrorists do not.””
Part of it is conveyed as a matter of strength:
“Guerrilla and terrorist tactics, therefore, always have been the resort of the weak against the strong.”
To those insinuating that only terrorists do bad shit, Boot says:
“The strong are not, of course, above terrible acts of violence. Far more people have been killed by just three states (Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Russia, and Mao’s China) than by all terrorists and guerrillas in history put together, but their acts lie outside the scope of this study, except insofar as they were directed against guerrilla foes or utilized guerrilla tactics.”
So as you can see at the end of that quote, tactics are part of the definition.
Hence my whole point, you may not agree with Boot’s definition because he term is so elastic, but he at least conveys it to understand his rationale.
Hi seer –
Thanks for that link! I enjoyed seeing Glenn’s interview.
Thanks feline. So glad I found it to share.
@ seer:
Thanks for posting.
@ Nate:
See Websters Dictionary For a clear definition of both terror and terrorism.
We all know what it means and it is in fact, objective to the individual or group of individual’s being terrorized.
I, for one, resent the fact that you are attempting to rewrite the English language as an ill-formed argument to criticize and demean an individual (Mr. Greenwald); who is attempting to inform people through his journalistic efforts, that national governments are terrorizing international citizens – both of their own government and those of other national governments.
Your attitude in taking this posture, is offensive because it implies that you have superior journalistic skills to Mr. Greenwald and further implies that your path of reasoning is the only “correct” one. Your arrogance acts as a repellent.
@Nate – Lyra1 has it absolutely correct – terror is as terror does; and terror is felt when one is terrorized.
The perpetrator is irrelevant, the effect on humans is not.
Also regarding any journalist: they are not required to provide solutions to the problems or issues they report; however, they can, and I agree with Glenn on this, they should be required to (if they are capable at all), provide context, factual and/or evidential support for their claims & reporting, as well as advocate a narrative based on facts and evidence that is the same for all of us in ALL of the news reporting that they do.
The rest is up to the citizens, those they elect, and the various processes that societies around the world have in place to make any change to what is undesirable, and to move towards what is more desirable.
“Never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice and lying and greed. If people all over the world…would do this, it would change the earth.”
– William Faulkner
Apologies – correction: “to make any change *from* what is undesirable, and to move towards what is more desirable.”
And do you think Glenn provides context!? If so, I’d love to see evidence of this.
Websters says:
This is actually quite similar to Boot’s definition if not broader. Boot says:
You say the perpetrator is irrelevant, the effect on humans is not. Problem is, I am not making an argument of the sort. The Nazis by Boot’s definition are not terrorists but have committed the most heinous and terrible acts of violence.
Your claim of international governments terrorizing international citizens is too opaque to even address. Be more specific. I cannot respond to such broad claims.
As for the implication that I have superior journalistic skills, that is a strawman. After all, I attribute much of this to Max Boot who is much more knowledgable of the subject than Glenn and me combined. My path of reasoning goes well beyond Glenn or Max, but at least Max can articulate his views in a manner that allows him to answer the host’s questions. There are many definitions. In Zinn’s Peoples History of the US he cites this:
Hence, another definition. Glenn still has none, he failed to articulate one.
Makes sense that you would be infatuated with Max Boot and what Max Boot writes. He is, after all, according to Michael Hastings, “the hackiest of the neocon hacks”
“The result is a work of fan fiction so fawning that not even Max Boot – a Petraeus buddy and Pentagon sock puppet – could bring himself to rave about it, grouching in The Wall Street Journal about All In’s “lack of independent perspective” and the authors’ tendency to skirt conflict. (Boot, the hackiest of the neocon hacks, is now an advisor to Mitt Romney.) Michael Hasting – from The Legend of David Patraeus
Another ad hominem attack by Kitt. You are frighteningly predictable. Just an FYI, reading someone’s book doesn’t co-opt their viewpoint. I have Glenn’s book but disagree with so much of it that I sometimes have to just put it down. I recently read David Sanger and Daniel Klaidman and thought they raised some good points but disagreed with others. I thought Dirty Wars and Legacy of Ashes were great but questioned the extent of their harsh depictions.
Frankly, I was not and am still not very familiar with Boot (you say I’m infatuated, man you are a dolt…) but this book received high acclaim from sources I trust, and it sounded interesting. I am not permanently affixed to his website, defending his honor at all costs like some of the people around here. I am reading his book and then I move on to the next (The Gun, CJ chivers).
I don’t read authors merely because I agree with their worldview, and your attack on this guy based on a single quote speaks volumes. Kitt, I have a new rule that I plan to apply to you: if you ignore the contents of my posts or resort to logical fallacies, I’m just going to ignore you. All opinions are not created equally. You are consistently providing evidence of this.
You’re also “infatuated” with the word ‘irony.’ Your sentence above is the definition of ironical. Think about it.
Also, did you not notice that it was Michael Hastings, not me, who called Boot “the hackiest of the neocon hacks.?” So I guess that “speaks volumes about” Michael Hastings?
“your attack on this guy based on a single quote speaks volumes.”–Nate
I forgot to add, I’ve been reading the war mongering garbage from Max Boot for over a decade. So my “attack” on him isn’t based on “a single quote,” you “frighteningly predictable” “dolt” who has a “frighteningly predictable bad habit of whining about others tossing out “ad hominems.”
@Nate:
See: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism
” ter·ror·ism
noun \?ter-?r-?i-z?m\
: the use of violent acts to frighten the people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal”
The definitions that you are citing are much more extensive than the one that Merriam-Webster gives. Almost like someone is trying to redefine a simple concept.
Let’s see….Max Boot and Stephen Shalom….Neither one is of particular interest to me but I do distrust any individual who attempts to force a philosophy or sell a concept based on opinion without stating it as such.
Mr Greenwald stated that terrorism is objective. That statement, given the definition that I just posted, is true. You, on the other hand, are attempting to twist a true statement into a fallacy based on some preconceived notion that only you are interested in pursuing. It speaks to your credibility and serves as a classic example of your remarks in this forum, both of which appear to be questionable.
In my opinion, you are probably being paid by some agency to post your lengthy Greenwald character assassination comments in this forum for the express purpose of inserting dissension and disinformation.
End of story.
Your opinion on this is not only paranoid and delusional, but frankly fucking stupid. How insulated from opposing viewpoints must one be that they convince themselves that persistent criticism is not genuine but part of a coordinated and deliberate effort to discredit someone. And you then speak to my credibility? You have none in my book with this comment. And spare me the accusation of “character assassination.” My critiques are much milder than Glenn affords his perceived enemies.
Anyways, stuff like this makes you sound like an idiot. But hey, if you can prove I am “paid by an agency,” I’d truly love to see it. Good luck with that!! I hope you spend considerable time looking.
It’s pretty much a given that if you end up on “Ronan” you’re not a threat to the state but a two-bit pawn in their game.
@ PutShitIntoThe Equation:
A troll by any other name is still a troll.
Sorry to go off topic, but is Mr. Greenwald tossing and turning about whether to release the names of Americans targeted by NSA?
How hard is it to simply post this info on a website? Has Mr. Greenwald been spooked by the national security boogie man, similar to the way he was spun on Afghanistan on mass surveillance? Still have not heard of anyone harmed as a result of Assange releasing that info.
Give us the full monty, Mr. Greenwald.
Glenn may still be on his book tour.
http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Glenn-Greenwald-expands-exposure-of-privacy-5571223.php
Story’s a bit thin on times and locations, but it looks like he’s still in the US and not at his desk as yet. Probably not carrying any computer stuff, if he’s being discreet, so probably he’s off the air till he’s safely back in Rio.
Looks like he’s speaking in Carnegie Hall tonight. meowtree says so, and he RTd it. This is a very long book tour, no? – an indication of the huge global demand for him. :)
https://twitter.com/meowtree/status/481145259615727619
People who threaten the state are always showing up for Carnegie Hall gigs aren’t they.
“[Phil] Ochs performed at many political events during the 1960s counterculture era, including anti-Vietnam War and civil rights rallies, student events, and organized labor events over the course of his career, in addition to many concert appearances at such venues as New York City’s Town Hall and Carnegie Hall. Politically, Ochs described himself as a “left social democrat” who became an “early revolutionary” after the protests at the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago led to a police riot, which had a profound effect on his state of mind.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Ochs
He was on Bill Maher’s show recently too, wasn’t he? Live and direct. http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/The_Snowden_Effect_And_The_Death_Of_Agents
He’s in New York today. He’ll be in Rosemont Ill on June 26th Those are the only dates I see listed at the moment on http://www.Glenngreenwald.net. I’d just link to it but it downloads a Colbert Report interview that I have to wait till the obnoxious cheering comes on, and then I can pause it to stop it.
Well I’m glad people are keeping tack of his itinerary. Can anyone tell me what he had for breakfast yesterday? You guys are such GG groupies. LMAO
small one..
Yes. It was a continental. Fresh squeezed orange juice with a berry danish and a politely go fuk’off, dip-shit.
Stay special..
long duck
Yeah, it’s really fuckin’ hard. It must have taken me a fraction of the time to locate that link as it took you to write and post your “LMAO” at your own feeble joke. You’re just such a laugh-riot…oh my goodness.
Banjo and Mona are the two biggest Glennbotics. Mona is a Neonazi sympathizer, wouldn’t surprise me if Banjo is too and, since Banjo supports Omidyar, obviously doesn’t have problems with Neonazi associations. Both are apologists for imperialism. And Banjo is terrible at arguing for Greenbacks, although that seems to be his calling in life. Check out his comments in this thread, where all he could do was throw around insults (love “toxic shit spew”) while getting his raggedy ass handed to him, so he never bothered responding to anybody. LOL.
http://chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/1-latest-news/2381-cartoons-and-cueballs-an-exchange-with-glenn-greenwald.html
Suave, Kit, and Put Stars By It should maybe consider anger management therapy. Good luck with that!
More ankle-biting… good dog!
(in response to small town dog above)
Arf! Arf!
http://youtu.be/gzd8utz2tts
Stick around, Reporter. Glenn will be done with his book tour very soon.
http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/201406/glenn-greenwald-edward-snowden-no-place-to-hide?currentPage=2
We are not even allowed to know the true nature of this “war on terror” that eats up our civil rights.
The EU “Regrets that the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) has denied the temporary committee access to the full text of the NATO Council Decision adopted on 4 October 2001 on the implementation of Article 5 of the Washington Treaty; urgently invites NATO to grant access to the full text of the Decision to clarify the matter”
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=REPORT&reference=A6-2006-0213&language=EN&mode=XML
They do whatever they want. If the basics are secret you cant even bring them to justice.
An interesting sidebar with implications for FL/TI. US Senate denies press credentials to SCOTUSBLOG.
http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/06/the-walls-erected-by-traditional-media/
US Senates criteria seem to be ‘any credentialed publication must be editorially independent from an organization that (i) “lobbies the federal government”; or (ii) “is not principally a general news organization.”’ SCOTUSBLOG, being a legal blog, uses lawyers, it seems, which is prong (ii). As for prong (i), how would that apply, say, to Fox News and its parent corporation? In any event, it suggests FL/TI might have some problems with them at some point.
Does FOX News itself lobby the federal government? (Personally I’d say they were “not principally a general news organization” but I suspect I’d have to recuse myself due to prejudice.)
Anyway, I think it’s clear that FL/TI would not fit either of those criteria, so they would have to find some other reason to discriminate against a news org they didn’t like.
Yes…apparently the only ones who can be granted press credentials are the ones who:
(i) Find favor with the federal government by paying the highest “lobby” salaries to the members of Congress.
(ii) Are principally general news organizations but are MSM outlets owned by filthy rich elites who give the best bribes to PAC’s.
See: http://www.mondotimes.com/
Regarding Fox News….owned by Rupert Murdoch. NBC/MSNBC goes to General Electric or the Stock Exchange presently the majority shareholder is Vanguard Group.
coram, here’s the rationale used to deny press credentials (on page 2 of the ruling)
I find it difficult to imagine FL/TI would find itself in a similar situation. Do you agree? And do you think this justification for denial is valid under the particular circumstances?
https://sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Untitled.pdf
I find it a bit odd. Most bar associations, as a part of their professional (ethics) rules, do have duties of candor and truthfulness, as well as conflict-of-interest rules regarding those they represent. Stringent enough, I should think, and “indirectly” isn’t the kind of advertising that bar associations frown on.
As for FL/TI, they’d have to show that (a) they don’t lobby the Federal gov’t — and they’re advocates of privacy &c., and (b) that they are principally a news organization. I can see plenty of mischief in both prongs.
Just being an “advocate” (even testifying to a committee) doesn’t count as “lobbying,” does it? If it does, then hoo boy are there a lot of lobbyists out there…
And I don’t know what they’d be called if not a “news organization.” They’re as much a “news organization” as National Review Online, though I don’t know for sure whether Jonah Goldberg has a Senate Press credential.
As far as mischief goes, though, no question about it. I’m sure every effort will be made to exclude news organizations whose primary media for reporting is online vs. print or broadcast.
I found it a bit disingenuous of Tom Goldstein not to have mentioned in his post that SCOTUSblog nets his firm clientele to the tune of 75% of its business with the court.
The fact of that large number can be construed to suggest SCOTUSblog is an important publicity arm of Goldstein & Russell, in which case, the denial is hung on an convenient hook; inconvenient from our perspective. If he hadn’t advertised, if that’s the word, those effects on his firm’s business SCOTUSblog garners, maybe the decision would have been different.
I’m terribly disappointed by this as I rely on SCOTUSblog to explain cases, issues, and decisions to me, a non-lawyer interested in the workings of law and especially the Supreme Court. Do you think, do you know, if they can continue under BloombergLaw’s credential, or does this ruling effectively ban them?
I mean you are trying to reply to a thread and they appear top-most
It’s working fine for me. Make sure you’re clicking on “Reply” under the comment you are replying to, and not “Add Comment” at the top.
comments keep going wherever they want …
and now that I think about it; I also applaud that Holland and Switzerland aren’t in the list as total sale outs either. That doesn’t mean that they are not “willing participants” but at least they are not happy prostitutes (morally speaking)
Holland has had the best record of all imperial powers at keeping a safe distance to b#llsh!t or at least genuinely trying to. Do you remember how the Dutch swiftly quit Iraq/NATO without saying good bye or giving reasons even prior to those collateral murder videos? How they antagonized the persecution of Jewish people?
Good for the Dutch and the Swiss!
truth and peace and love,
rclopez
This is not about terrorism; this is an effort to hunt money on a massive scale in order to sustain the current forms of a failing government.
I guess the NSA list is a bit delayed?
According to Wikipedia:
“………..After an emergency meeting on 22 February, the Arab League suspended Libya from taking part in council meetings and Moussa issued a statement condemning the “crimes against the current peaceful popular protests and demonstrations in several Libyan cities.”[35][36] Libya was suspended from the UN Human Rights Council by a unanimous vote of the UN General Assembly, citing the Gaddafi government’s use of violence against protesters.[37] A number of governments, including Britain, Canada, Switzerland, the United States, Germany and Australia took action to freeze assets of Gaddafi and his associates.[38] The move was criticised as double-standard as numerous similar human right abuses in Bahrain, Yemen or elsewhere produced no action at all.[39]
Luis Moreno Ocampo, chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, estimated that between 500 and 700 people were killed by Gaddafi’s security forces in February 2011, before the rebels even took up arms. “Shooting at protestors was systematic,” Moreno-Ocampo stated, discussing the Libyan government’s response to the initial pro-democracy demonstrations.[40]
Moreno-Ocampo further stated that during the ongoing civil war, “War crimes are apparently committed as a matter of policy” by forces loyal to Gaddafi.[40] This is further supported by claims of Human Rights Watch, that 10 protesters, who had already agreed to lay down arms, were executed by a government paramilitary group in Bani Walid in May.[41]…….”
And by the way, fuck Gaddafi.
Craig, what do you think about Ukraine using violence against its rebels and protesters? Should UN countries take action against Ukraine? Or is it that we should distinguish between “good rebels” and “bad rebels” on the say-so of the US government?
In Libya just as in Syria, armed forces shot unarmed and peaceful protesters. In both cases, hundreds of protesters were murdered. Protesters fought back bringing civil war to both countries. Over 150,000 have now been killed in Syria, and short of a complete and bloody victory by Gaddafi, the same would have held true in Libya (and is, in reality). Firing on peaceful protesters is strictly the fault of the government. Assad and Gaddafi had other options, but they chose violence to retain power. If protesters are demonstrating peacefully, the government is wrong to start killing them.
“…….Or is it that we should distinguish between “good rebels” and “bad rebels” on the say-so of the US government?……”
I don’t think we need the US government to tell us who is good or bad, do you? But, there is nothing wrong with the concept of “good” and “bad rebels” either. Who views the ISIS as good? And who can call the Taliban “good”? And, in reality, who would call the Soviet empire good?
Thanks.
I don’t believe there’s any basis for believing that all Libyan demonstrators were peaceful at one point, or that Venezuelan demonstrators are peaceful, or that all Russian separatists in Ukraine are violent, other than blind acceptance of the prevailing media narratives in the west. So while some rebels might have more noble motives than others, the way you determine that is not by looking at which side the US is on. But if you happen to use that as a heuristic, any rebel group supported by the US should be presumed suspect.
You make a good point. All we can do is read different sources – and judge the best we can. I’ll save the arguments on Ukraine for another day.
Thanks.
Apparently ISIS is “good” when they are in Syria fighting Assad, but “bad” when they are in Iraq fighting Maliki.
“……..Apparently ISIS is “good” when they are in Syria fighting Assad, but “bad” when they are in Iraq fighting Maliki…….”
In my opinion, that’s partly true. Assad needs to be overthrown. However, the Arab people are going to have to deal with the Islamists who are rising to fill in voids where despots are overthrown. Obviously, I don’t support the ISIS, al-Qaeda, Boko Haram or any other militant Islamists, but they are working as a part of the Arab Spring (with their own agenda of course).
Democracy is not east to implement. Morsi and Maliki ruled for the few and marginalized the rest.
Thanks.
In Libya just as in Syria, armed forces shot unarmed and peaceful protesters. In both cases, hundreds of protesters were murdered. Protesters fought back bringing civil war to both countries. Over 150,000 have now been killed in Syria, and short of a complete and bloody victory by Gaddafi, the same would have held true in Libya (and is, in reality). Firing on peaceful protesters is strictly the fault of the government. Assad and Gaddafi had other options, but they chose violence to retain power. If protesters are demonstrating peacefully, the government is wrong to start killing them.
“…….Or is it that we should distinguish between “good rebels” and “bad rebels” on the say-so of the US government?……”
I don’t think we need the US government to tell us who is good or bad, do you? But, there is nothing wrong with the concept of “good” and “bad rebels” either. Who views the ISIS as good? And who can call the Taliban “good”? And, in reality, who would call the Soviet empire good?
Thanks.
Ok. Thanks. … the only thing I can add about Gaddafi is he appeared to be a colorful figure and a snappy dresser.
~ I am deeply conflicted on another pressing matter, Mr. Summers, and would ask your advice. Only a few months ago President Obama was arming, and on the verge of (at least) launching air strikes against the Syrian gov. in support of, the Syrian rebels. Would not simple logic dictate President Obama should bomb (what remains) of the Iraqi government in support of the Syrian rebels as well? *note. I think the Rebels already have considerable U.S. armaments in Iraq?
*I only ask as time seems short before ISIS takes Rome and starts slouching toward Jerusalem … according to the NYT!
No question that the ISIS have a considerable amount of US weapons which were left after the Iraqi arm fled.
“………Only a few months ago President Obama was arming, and on the verge of (at least) launching air strikes against the Syrian gov. in support of, the Syrian rebels. Would not simple logic dictate President Obama should bomb (what remains) of the Iraqi government in support of the Syrian rebels as well?……”
The US has even been extremely hesitant to arm the Syrian rebels for fear of giving weapons to the Islamists (ISIS). Outside of some training of rebels in Jordan and limited arming of the rebels, the US has been mostly absent in Syria. As you know, the Syrian “rebels” have nothing to do with the ISIS (in Syria or Iraq). Although the ISIS have been accused of atrocities in Syria, clearly, the biggest terrorist in Syria is Assad himself who has been accused of war crimes by HRW, AI and the UN. He has out terrorized the terrorists. Of course, he has the help of Iran, Hezbollah and the Russians.
Don’t forget his all-female personal guard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazonian_Guard
@CraigSummers..
re: Libya Follies
‘One of the sources (Freedom House) that was utilized to expose Libya’s ‘Human Rights’ record (Freedom of the Press – Report), was a non-governmental organization “selected by the State Department to receive funding for clandestine activities inside Iran”.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1607382/posts
Got Propagandized?
Suave
It’s easy to propagandize the murder of 500-700 people demonstrating in a “democracy”. Gaddafi made two mistakes:
1. He panicked when the Arab Spring arrived in Libya. He chose the same path as Assad hoping to quell the demonstrations by intimidation and murder. It backfired. By the way, political dissent was not tolerated in Libya.
2. He retained a weak military because he always worried he would be overthrown in a military coup. Of course, when push came to shove, that weakness was exposed and exploited.
Freedom House is, without question, a US government front. Human Rights Watch is not exactly that, but they have a clear bias in their focus, and people are starting to realize that. I think Amnesty is the least questionable human rights organization, starting with their funding model.
After reading a good chunk of the comments it seems so much of them are nonsensical. I am wondering if someone is trying to make intelligent discussion on this site impossible by burying the wheat amid mountains of chaff.
Wall Street Crimes: Where’s the NSA-FBI to track all the billions of dollars that are being illegally stolen?
“The NSA has certainly been tracking away, vacuuming up — in the name of our national security — billions of records from average Americans, spying on friends and foes alike, outraging our allies, and barely paying even lip service to our most basic of constitutional rights.
But this vast dragnet somehow omits from surveillance the perpetrators of some of the most serious assaults on our homeland security. These perpetrators — the power suits of Wall Street — have wrecked our economy and continue to bleed it dry.” — By Jeff Vogel and Sam Pizzigati, OtherWords | Op-Ed,
“How Did ”Don’t Mess with the Money” Become the NSA’s Motto?”
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/24511-how-did-dont-mess-with-the-money-become-the-nsas-motto
Craig would agree to the Israel solution. kill all Palestinians.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/israel-troops-kill-4-palestinians?utm_content=bufferafbbb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Summertime foreign policy.
Glenn Greenwald @ggreenwald · 24m
Read @stephenWalt on the relationship between neocons & “their close cousins: the liberal interventionists” http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/06/20/being_a_neocon_means_never_having_to_say_you_re_sorry_dick_cheney_william_kristol
American foreign policy
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/06/20/being_a_neocon_means_never_having_to_say_you_re_sorry_dick_cheney_william_kristol
..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq6tlxrQb4g
Three links will it post? If i believe, anything is possible.
Longer posts are coming to win us.
Longer boats are coming to win us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QF3Cjbk1zU
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.” -Bertrand Russell
That is fact.
Question everything….especially yourself.
I don’t believe a word anybody says nowadays … unless it’s true.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
My 1919 Yeats beats your 1957 Russell. Hah!
American foreign policy endorsed by craig summers. War is a holy day.
“Summer Holiday”
We’re all going on a summer holiday
No more peace for a week or two
Gun and slaughter on our summer holiday
No more liberity for me or you
For a week or two
We’re going where the sun shines brightly
We’re going where the sea is blue
We’ve seen it in the movies
Now let’s kill it if it’s true
Everybody has a summer holiday
Killing things they always wanted to
So we’re going on a summer holiday
To make our memes come true
For me and you
We’re going where the sun shines brightly
We’re going where the sea is blue
We’ve seen it in the movies
Now let’s kill everything that’s true
Everybody has a summer holiday
Killing things they always wanted to
So we’re going on a summer holiday
To make our memes come true
For me and you
Mmm, mmm
Mmm, mmm
Mmm, mmm
..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4or2qdyxsSA
It’s always summer in never never land.
Sorry for the double post but it it is a consequence of this comment section’s faults.
And for those that missed it Craig’s summer holiday
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/06/23/10/23/man-gets-stuck-in-giant-vagina
From craig’s poisoned pen:
“
Bad move craig. i am being to take it personally. Bad move craig every word you write I will critique.
I am now your shadow.
Yeah craig the United Nations called Gaddafi the world’s best humanitarian leader and it was America (it was their drone , US drone that hit Gaddafi’s convoy.) whose democracy is a child to the adult democracy that existed in Libya
You know nothing or as others have stated you are a liar.
The democratic situation in Libya was greater than the confined American ‘democracy’
,blockquote>“indebtedness and gratitude for Muammar Gaddafi and in appreciation for his role in firmly establishing the principle of direct democracy, his persistent struggle, his distinctive inspiration and continuous instigation for the consolidation of human liberty and for issuing the Great Green Document in the era of the masses, for the purpose of bestowing tribute upon symbolic figures of struggle and faith in the values of freedom to all humans, nations, groups and individuals”.[1]
<blockquopte.in firmly establishing the principle of direct democracy</blockquote.
Craig i really don't mind if you sit this one out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toHlMD50eYY
"Thick As A Brick (Part 1)"
Really don't mind if you sit this one out.
My words but a whisper your deafness a SHOUT.
I may make you feel but I can't make you think.
Your sperm's in the gutter your love's in the sink.
So you ride yourselves over the fields and
you make all your animal deals and
your wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick
More details here. It took 22 firefighters to spring him, it seems.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/student-gets-stuck-in-giant-stone-vagina-in-germany-20140623-zsiet.html
Inevitably, a male student — and from the US. They never were very good at geography. Can you say “unglaubliche Dummheit?” I knew you could!
American foreign policy endorsed by craig summers.
War is a holy day.
Rik Mayall’s favourite Rick musician.
Cliff (Sir Cliff) Richards.
“Summer Holiday”
We’re all going on a summer holiday
No more peace for a week or two
Gun and slaughter on our summer holiday
No more liberity for me or you
For a week or two
We’re going where the sun shines brightly
We’re going where the sea is blue
We’ve seen it in the movies
Now let’s kill it if it’s true
Everybody has a summer holiday
Killing things they always wanted to
So we’re going on a summer holiday
To make our memes come true
For me and you
We’re going where the sun shines brightly
We’re going where the sea is blue
We’ve seen it in the movies
Now let’s kill everything that’s true
Everybody has a summer holiday
Killing things they always wanted to
So we’re going on a summer holiday
To make our memes come true
For me and you
Mmm, mmm
Mmm, mmm
Mmm, mmm.
……….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRZWEs3VStQ
America is brainwashing its own children
Disney and the NSA.
Imagineers go on to run the NSA.
Where is Mona?
I dont know if the Intercept or First Look Media cares, but where is Mona?
Are there others too who can not post? How many?
The number of comments per article is dwindling here for no good reason.
I have times when none of my posts get through. Many have no links so what is going on here?
The quick exchange of views adds to the comment section.
How come Put stairs by it can climb to the top of posts but Mona is silenced.
How many other Monas are being blocked..
I feel compelled to pull this out…..yet one more time, as something of a refresher course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI (George Carlin – “Who Really Controls America”)
Thanks Lyra1 – Here’s a less comedic/social critic, more actual data oriented website for those who want the facts:
http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/ (“Who Rules America?”, G. William Domhoff)
And due to the “one link per post” rule – here is a link to a January, 2014 video of the author, “Who Rules America?”, G. William Domhoff above, about the book and data behind it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=k31RJC4Om98
Title: “Who Rules America Today? The Triumph of the Corporate Rich”
That man, George Carlin, was a prophet.
Your link contains the truth.
Thank you for posting it.
Cheers jimmy.
Truth is always the objective. It is also the sword.
With regard to the “bottom of the rabbit hole” regarding world economics this article points to the truth:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/item/18541-dictators-worldwide-demand-aid-empowered-un-global-socialism
India was the only country I didn’t totally expect to be on that list and Latin American countries don’t seem to find gringo b#llsh!t that palatable it seems
that last piece says it all
truth and peace and love,
RCLopez
Poland, also on the list, is having second thoughts, perhaps, about its “relationship” with the former United States.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/22/poland-foreign-minister-alliance-us-worthless
At least the NSA stands up for partnerships focussing on equality – a high value in these impermanent times.
A lesson they should have learned after 1939, and 1945-6.
If you’d like to see an example of how much this “put stars by it” commenter doesn’t even try to evade being exposed as a liar, check out this comment quoted:
Anyone who has been reading comments to any of Glenn Greenwald’s posts dating back all the way to Unclaimed Territory to this current website will know that I have never labeled or called Glenn Greenwald a socialist. But yet this ‘stars by it’ commenter claims that I went to Chris Floyd’s blog and “got my ass handed to me” for being “the one who said on Chris Floyd’s blog that Greenwald was a socialist.”
I’m not pointing out this specific lie of ‘stars by’ to show who was correct or incorrect, because I doubt that anyone reading this has any doubt that ‘stars by’ is full of shit on that specific comment post. I’m pointing it out to give some measure of just what a pathological liar the commenter is. He or she is as much of a blatant liar as Hillary Clinton. Read Ralph Nader for an example of “Hillary’s Haughty Hyperbowl”
http://chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/1-latest-news/2381-cartoons-and-cueballs-an-exchange-with-glenn-greenwald.html
… and our old friend Keith Alexander starts at a new job. As the comments speculate, it may have more to do with his rolodex than his cyber skills.
http://www.emptywheel.net/2014/06/20/keith-alexander-to-earn-600000-a-month-for-preventing-ddos-attacks/
Who knew that communism’s greatest challenge would not be capitalism, the rise of democratic socialism, or technology’s abundance–but Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowden.
And in a turn of events that should surprise no one, owning mainly to a combination of incredibly poor choice of spokespeople, overall punchability, and humorless tone deafness, communism is once again getting its ass kicked.
On the upside, that really awkward period when there was no criticism of Glenn and Edward from the “left” has subsided, and the world is once again in political balance.
It has been said that the point of communism was to make the democratic party look good. Not much has changed.
Wikileaks releases secret draft text for a Trade In Services Agreement (TISA) (h/t Slog).
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/6/20/a_plan_only_banksters_will_love
A leaked document to inform the United States citizens that their government is adamant upon insuring economic slavery for eternity.
This is the most informative link posted in the comments on this article and I am the only one to notice????
There are no words for the multiple instances of utter disgust that I am feeling right now.
Bottom line is energy, food and water. These commodities are critical for survival. If this “secret” agreement goes forth as planned the Central Bankers will have full control not only of energy, but also of who survives as well.
I am limited to one supporting link: Here it is:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/first-congress-member-allowed-to-read-secret-treaty-says-there-is-no-national-security-purpose-in-keeping-this-text-secret-this-agreement-hands-the-sovereignty-of-our-country-over-t.html
Quit the damn bickering over issues that mean nothing and pay attention to the ones that do. Everyone has a choice to either oppose or condone the illegal and unconstitutional activities that are being done “in secret” by the Executive Branch of the U.S. Government; these violations are also being condoned by “secret” courts (e.g.; FISA) or open mock courts conducted by “judges” – who have been appointed by the very same “Executives” who are wreaking havoc – and are well funded by the controlling Central Bankers; and all of this occurring under the watchful eye of a Legislative Branch – Representatives and Senators that have been ordered to secrecy, blackmailed by, or are specifically working for the same Central Bankers.
To quote Carlin: “They don’t give a fuck about you, They don’t give a fuck about you….They don’t care about you. At all. At All. AT ALL!”
Can we discuss the issues that matter here as opposed to some bullshit about a petty journalistic feud between one Chris Floyd (PutShitIntoThe Equation) and Mr. Greenwald??? It doesn’t matter if Mr. Greenwald is blue with purple polka-dots, or pink with yellow stripes, or green with blue rectangles. Nor does it matter how he makes his money because the Central Bankers control Everyone. That is what has to be addressed if we want to have a country based on the Constitution of the United States of America.
No, you’re not the only one to notice, and links to writing about leaks about the TPP are prevalent; not, of course in msm but Popular Resistance, Kevin Gosztola, Wikileaks and others have been on it for a long time.
http://www.popularresistance.org/tag/tpp/
https://wikileaks.org/tpp/pressrelease.html
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Wikileaks-Analysis-Article-by-Wiki-Leaks-International-Trade-Agreements_Tisa-Trade-In-Services-Agreement-Financial-Service_Wikileaks-140620-619.html
I’d be a bit disappointed if this story didn’t at least get a follow-up here. It’s not pretty.
Mr. Taibbi’s proposed magazine content is sorely needed at First Look Media.
https://firstlook.org/blog
Would just one article for The Intercept be too much to ask?
Yeah, I just can’t wait for that “hard hitting piece” on small-town administrative corruption. Wow! I’ll bet he didn’t even have to ask Pierre if that topic was okay!
@ PutShitIntoTheEquation:
Here is an Intercept article which specifically outlines your comment intention in this forum:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
You’ve been busted asshole.
@Lyra1: TISA could be a very big deal, even if it isn’t a big scandal. It would potentially skew financial regulation worldwide, in a way we haven’t seen since Bretton Woods. And its stifling of national regulation is kind of imperial in its over-reach.
I just posted three links with links within the links about TPP that have been up for quite some while from Popular Resistance, Wikileaks and others. So far it hasn’t posted. Goddamned Intercept comments stuff.
See if the site can handle just one at a time:
http://www.popularresistance.org/tag/tpp/
Good to see that that one posted because there are a whole bunch of articles on the subject linked in that one single link.
@ Kitt:
That was an excellent choice. Thank you.
Thanks coram, Lyra1 & Kitt. Much appreciated.
One hyperlink per post. That seems to work here.
Banjo pretends to be a radical. LOL.
“Cindy
22 Jun 2014 at 5:05 pm
@Put Stars By It.
To demonstrate you are not just an estranged disturber, and to give an indication of the direction from which your criticisms actually arise (other than that you are a self-proclaimed ‘True Leftist,’ please reveal your favorite American politicians and media outlets.
Above all, please declare whether or not you consider the Constitution the law of the land.”
‘Even though there are no conspiracies, it is also true that government officials sometimes take illegal actions or try to deceive the public.’ William Dumhoff
Does anyone else see a contradiction in that statement?
An important leak by Wikileaks. TISA reminds me of the ‘endgame memo’ exposed by Greg Pallast some months back: http://www.gregpalast.com/larry-summers-and-the-secret-end-game-memo/
`Myers..
Takes me back to the early 2002ish when I was introduced to Mr Pallast via his damning ‘The Best Democracy Money Can Buy’, publication.
Much Appreciated..
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61132.The_Best_Democracy_Money_Can_Buy
“.. back to the early 2002ish” = Fuk’dit*
*`mellow
No Place to Hide at NY Review of Books.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/jul/10/glenn-greenwald-partial-disclosure/?insrc=hpma
Money ‘graf:
Excellent link!
Thanks for posting.
The illustration of Greenwald is just atrocious
Yes, well, we knew he wouldn’t win for Miss Congeniality, but, yes, that is an unflattering likeness. The review, at least, “gets” him.
GreIenbacks isn’t exactly the most photogenic blogger in the world. To me he looks like a cop. I wonder if even dogs hate him.
Have you seen this one?
http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/201406/glenn-greenwald-edward-snowden-no-place-to-hide
If looks could kill …
@Put Stars By It.
To demonstrate you are not just an estranged disturber, and to give an indication of the direction from which your criticisms actually arise (other than that you are a self-proclaimed ‘True Leftist,’ please reveal your favorite American politicians and media outlets.
Above all, please declare whether or not you consider the Constitution the law of the land.
Seconded.
The left-right spectrum is inadequate for charting political positions, which can also be measured on a scale of increasing authoritarianism. Here, Put Stars By It is at the extreme authoritarian end and would agree with George Bush that the constitution is just a piece of paper – she has no interest in the rights of the individual.
Although PSBI nominally considers capitalists to be the enemy, her real ire is against the reformists – the social democrats, progressives and liberals (in the American sense). She believes a proletarian revolution is historically determined, so anyone trying to make the political system more tolerable or inclusive is simply delaying the inevitable. This puts her in the odd position of cheering for oppression, since only when oppression becomes intolerable will she have her revolution. In the meantime, she passes the time by sniping at everyone.
That Tanzie guy’s Twitter feed is hilarious. He can take down Greenbacks at the drop of a hat, especially showing Greenbacks’ hypocrisy and opportunism.
Ha! Another ‘leftist’ proclaiming their ‘purity’ by sniping at everyone else, serving only to emphasize their own irrelevance. I can see why you are a fan.
PSbI: Look in a mirror and mutter to yourself “fuckwit”, and you’ve got it in one!
LOL, “Kitt” gets a twitter slapdown from Sheehan and Tarzie.
You can’t make this shit up. Hilarious. “one of Greenwald’s most dedicated trolls.” LOL!
LOL.
Hilarious.
Both Chinese and Muslim religions are very obnoxious and are not partnering us properly. Only the Saudi people are good Muslims, even though they sent all except one of the 911 assassins. The whole world has a responsibility to partner us f0r fighting terror and terror suspects.
http://www.travelchinaguide.com/intro/religion/
Confucianism, Taoism and Buddhism are the three major religions in China, although it is true to say that Confucianism is a school of philosophy rather than a religion.
So
.
Arh, those horror religions, those terrible terror religions of Buddhism and Taoism.
America is the terrorist and the world will group together to destroy America for its pride.
America is spiritually dead.
Death to the great satan.
“…….America is the terrorist and the world will group together to destroy America for its pride……”
Good luck to them.
“……..Look at Libya, a nation with the best leader (he gave the nation’s wealth to the people) and look at it now after American foreign policy…….”
Best leader? And you think you have any credibility, Tom? And to be fair, the operation to oust the brutal despot (Qaddafi) was led by France and Great Britain. The US kind of tagged along for the ride.
“The US kind of tagged along for the ride” (in Libya).
Craig, this reveals ignorance on your part. US weaponry operated predominantly by US pilots bombed the hell out of Libya, Sirte particularly – butchering hundreds of innocents – and the (then) secretary of State Hillary Clinton herself consistently claimed responsibility for the killing and ultimately the regime change. France and Great Britain lead nothing in which the USA is involved, and you know this very well. Also, the assault on Libya was not congressionally authorized, as all significant military action must be, according to the Constitution.
Gaddafi was certainly no saint, but before the bombing his country was prosperous and his people thrived.
“……..Craig, this reveals ignorance on your part. US weaponry operated predominantly by US pilots bombed the hell out of Libya, Sirte particularly – butchering hundreds of innocents – and the (then) secretary of State Hillary Clinton herself consistently claimed responsibility for the killing and ultimately the regime change. France and Great Britain lead nothing in which the USA is involved, and you know this very well……”
Well, if I know this very well, then there is no ignorance on my part. It was France and Great Britain which pushed to oust the great leader in Libya. It was also the liberal press which called for action in Libya to further the Arab Spring. Obama was slow to act (which he now has turned into a positive attribute i.e., measured). Gaddafi opposed giving up power at all costs (as most authoritarians do):
“…….Libyan security forces have cracked down fiercely on demonstrators across the country, with fighting spreading to Tripoli after erupting in Libya’s oil-producing east last week, in a reaction to decades of repression and following uprisings that have toppled leaders in Tunisia and Egypt……..Human Rights Watch says at least 233 people have been killed and opposition groups put the figure much higher but independent verification is impossible…….”
Personally, I opposed getting involved, but great leaders who have done so much for their people in the Middle East (Hussein, Assad, Qaddafi. Mubarak) just seem to have a difficult time giving up that POWER. Notice how this quote from the article says “decades of repression”? Must have been one of those “state” journalist.
Thanks.
Your ignorance about US tagging along for the ride is ‘willful’ ignorance, or better, a lie. I said you know better because you do know that the US does not ‘follow.’ – if you don’t, then okay, you’re truly ignorant.
The assault on Libya was unconstitutional, unilaterally (in the US) decided upon by Obama and Clinton, and left Libya worse off; these, my friend are facts.
No Cindy. The US was late to support the bombing of Libya (no fly zone). Obama (which you can see the same hesitance in Syria and Iraq clearly) needed to be persuaded by France and Britain. In addition, there was nothing unilateral about the “no fly zone”. The UN passed a resolution:
“…….On 19 March 2011, a multi-state coalition began a military intervention in Libya to implement United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973. The United Nations Intent and Voting was to have “an immediate ceasefire in Libya, including an end to the current attacks against civilians, which it said might constitute crimes against humanity” … “imposing a ban on all flights in the country’s airspace — a no-fly zone — and tightened sanctions on the Qadhafi regime and its supporters.” ……”
Finally, the US also sought (and received) the support of the Arab League and the African Union.
“……..Gaddafi was certainly no saint, but before the bombing his country was prosperous and his people thrived……”
Of course, there was a simple way to test that – voting. If Qaddafi (like Assad) was so popular, the best test would have been by vote. You know….that democratic process that allows the PEOPLE a say in their government? Of course, this was never an option for the DICTATORS.
ALL airstrikes on Libya were controlled and co-ordinated by the US military.
We are discussing the bombing of innocents and the facilitation of the regime change in Libya, and, further, the ruination of the country for its inhabitants. And you say America was tagging along for the ride, which is nonsense.
Also, that you think the United Nations or NATO can excuse unconstitutional acts is interesting, especially since the co-ordination of the lethal strikes was as I said US controlled and predominantly US executed.
Your last point about voting eludes me; we are discussing how much better off people were, right? You think the voting situation now is better, perhaps.
“……….Your last point about voting eludes me; we are discussing how much better off people were, right? You think the voting situation now is better, perhaps……”
As long as you believe that the US controls everything in the world, there is no use for me arguing otherwise (i.e., you are US obsessed). But your point above is worth discussing. It was the Libyans that protested the rule of Qaddafi – and it was Qaddafi that cracked down killing hundreds of Libyans (regardless of regime change). He alone is responsible for the civil war that followed – and his demise. He was rightfully removed from power.
Are the Libyan people better off today? Probably not. Rebellion rarely leads to better conditions – immediately. Look at Syria. Innocent and peaceful protests led to the same kind of crack down by Assad. Over 150,000 people have died because Assad refused to reform his system of repression. These were ordinary Syrians protesting for more rights. The same would certainly have occurred in Iraq had the US not invaded in 2003.
In my opinion, the Arab Spring is one of the great uprisings in modern history. People have taken to the streets and died for a simple say in their government. What can be more democratic than that? That was in Libya as well. It doesn’t matter how good of a leader Qaddafi was. People wanted change – and that is good (no, great).
Islamists are also a part of the oppressed class in the Middle East. They are filling in the power voids left from the disposal (change) of autocratic rulers (Iraq, Libya). That’s unfortunate, but the people in the Middle East are going to have to deal with this if democracy is to come to the ME. That includes Libya, Syria and anywhere else that people want change.
The alternative is to go back to supporting the dictators, in effect, to save the Arabs from themselves. That’s a bad choice (IMO). A good example is al-Sissi in Egypt who crushed the election of the Muslim Brotherhood. Unless he makes some serious reforms, the rebellion will return to Egypt. More Egyptians will die, but in the long run, that will be good because people need to have a say in their government.
Thanks.
Thanks.
The US (and the west) have been – rightly – criticized for supporting the status quo in the ME. Yet when the US supported the elected Muslim Brotherhood, the US was criticized for that as well. When the west (supported most strongly by France and Great Britain) supported the Arab Spring in Libya – more criticism.
The last post is supposed to go only to the first thanks. I excluded the last part (forgot to delete it though)
You said I think ‘the US controls everything in the world.’
This is an idiotic claim for you to project, and I said no such thing. I said that the US controlled and co-ordinated the brutal attacks which butchered hundreds of innocents and left Libya in chaos.
“The US has showed signs of exasperation with its European partners amid confusion over who will take control of the Libyan operation from America.
Facing questions at home about the US military getting bogged down in a third Muslim country, President Barack Obama said Washington would cede control of the Libyan operation in days, either to a Nato-led command or some Nato-style operation headed by France or Britain.” (The Guardian 22nd March 2011; link at end of post.)
This tells you the US controlled and co-ordinated the deadliest and most destructive of the strikes, as the blunt desire is to pass the control it has to others.
Also, you said earlier that Obama was reluctant to bomb Syria and Iran. Certainly Iran, but he was very, very keen to bomb Syria if you are honest in your recollection, and was talked out of it (hopefully by public backlash, but who knows).
Your general ‘insights’ into Muslim cultures, also, is wanting, in my opinion, and although you deem me worthy of continuing this conversation because of this tangent, I can not return the favor as I find you quite slippery, unfocused and unfortunately dishonest.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2011/mar/22/libya-no-fly-zone-air-strikes-live-updates
http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2011/mar/22/libya-no-fly-zone-air-strikes-live-updates
@CraigAmericaFuk’YeahSummers
Notice how your ‘stain on humanity’ exceptionalism, distorts the reality?
snip’
‘Democracy is not just about elections or political parties. True democracy is also about human rights. During the NATO bombardment of Libya , western media conveniently forgot to mention that the United Nations had just prepared a lengthy dossier praising Mr. Gaddafi’s human rights achievements. The UN report commended Libya for bettering its “legal protections” for citizens, making human rights a “priority,” improving women’s rights, educational opportunities and access to housing. During Mr. Gaddafi’s era housing was considered a human right. Consequently, there was virtually no homelessness or Libyans living under bridges. How many Libyan homes and bridges did NATO destroy?
One area where the United Nations Human Rights Council praised Mr. Gaddafi profusely is women’s rights. Unlike many other nations in the Arab world, women in Libya had the right to education, hold jobs, divorce, hold property and have an income. When Colonel Gaddafi seized power in 1969, few women went to university. Today more than half of Libya ‘s university students are women. One of the first laws Mr. Gaddafi passed in 1970 was an equal pay for equal work law, only a few years after a similar law was passed in the U.S. In fact, Libyan working mothers enjoyed a range of benefits including cash bonuses for children, free day care, free health care centres and retirement at 55.
Democracy is not merely about holding elections simply to choose which particular representatives of the elite class should rule over the masses. True democracy is about democratising the economy and giving economic power to the majority.
Fact is, the west has shown that unfettered free markets and genuinely free elections simply cannot co-exist. Organized greed always defeats disorganized democracy. How can capitalism and democracy co-exist if one concentrates wealth and power in the hands of few, and the other seeks to spread power and wealth among many? Mr. Gaddafi’s Jamahiriya however, sought to spread economic power amongst the downtrodden many rather than just the privileged few.
Prior to Colonel Gaddafi, King Idris let Standard Oil essentially write Libya ‘s petroleum laws. Mr. Gaddafi put an end to all of that. Money from oil proceeds was deposited directly into every Libyan citizen’s bank account. One wonders if Exxon Mobil and British Petroleum will continue this practice under the new democratic Libya?’
http://www.countercurrents.org/chengu120113.htm
“………Democracy is not merely about holding elections simply to choose which particular representatives of the elite class should rule over the masses. True democracy is about democratising the economy and giving economic power to the majority…….”
Your whole post supporting Qaddafi is fine and good. Democracy is a lot more than majority rules. But it was not the west that initiated the protests against the great one – Qaddafi. It was the people of Libya, OK? How could they have been so ungrateful to their leader (for life)?
The people protesting (on the heels of the successful rebellions in Tunisia and Egypt) simply sought a say in their government.
For such a popular leader, what easier way to affirm his popularity and good governance than hold elections – allow political dissent and protests? The fact remains that protests led to a brutal crack down on dissenters as I posted above. That is really what got the rebellion started. People in the greater Middle East were simply not willing to settle for the same leaders year after year. Qaddafi became a victim of the Arab Spring and western intervention.
By the way, apparently Qaddafi was doing OK for himself.
“……. Several foreign governments and analysts have stated that a large share of the business enterprise was controlled by Gaddafi, his family, and the government.[77] A leaked US diplomatic cable said that the Libyan economy was “a kleptocracy in which the government – either the Gaddafi family itself or its close political allies – has a direct stake in anything worth buying, selling or owning”.[78] According to US officials, Gaddafi amassed a vast personal fortune during his 42-year leadership.[79] The New York Times pointed to Gaddafi’s relatives adopting lavish lifestyles, including luxurious homes, Hollywood film investments, and private parties with American pop stars.[78][80]…..”
Thanks.
Al-Gaddafi International Prize for Human Rights
The Al-Gaddafi International Prize for Human Rights was an annual human rights prize founded by the Libyan People’s Congress in late 1988, in “indebtedness and gratitude for Muammar Gaddafi and in appreciation for his role in firmly establishing the principle of direct democracy, his persistent struggle, his distinctive inspiration and continuous instigation for the consolidation of human liberty and for issuing the Great Green Document in the era of the masses, for the purpose of bestowing tribute upon symbolic figures of struggle and faith in the values of freedom to all humans, nations, groups and individuals”.[1]
Gaddafi made an initial grant of ten million US$[2] to the Swiss-based foundation North-South XXI which later administered the prize donation. The sum of the prize money was US $250,000 (in case of several recipients the prize money was shared). The prize was given by an international committee, chaired by former President of Algeria Ahmed Ben Bella.[3][4] Gaddafi himself had no say in choosing the winner.[2]
The prize was discontinued in 2011, after Gaddafi’s overthrow and assassination during the Libyan civil war..
A picture of craig summers on holiday.
http://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article129352160/Austauschstudent-bleibt-in-Stein-Vagina-stecken.html
Link for the unquoted quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Gaddafi_International_Prize_for_Human_Rights
..
link for the last post.
http://libyanfreepress.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/smoking-gun-gaddafi-was-to-receive-u-n-human-rights-award/
Another article on craig summers (mote pictures)
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/06/23/10/23/man-gets-stuck-in-giant-vagina
The current security services are a stain on the memories and sacrifice of those who fought and died to preserve the freedoms we cherish(ed).
Its the height of irony….you want to pull out all the stops to defend our way of life by destroying it….
For those of you who might work for the security services…wake up…become a hero, emulate Snowden and bring down control system. Do us all a favor…become a hero.
Remember, the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist…..we did not know (for sure) the devil was walking amongst us until Snowden opened our eyes and minds…..
A highly worthwhile piece addressing Left interventionist hypocrisy in regard to the Libyan humanitarian democracy-bringing escapade that has degenerated into chaos much as Iraq has now. But doesn’t that violent chaos just suit the Oligarch’s objectives to create the dangerous world that justifies above the law forever surveillance?
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2013/09/libya-and-its-contexts/
That is a prime example of Neo-Liberal policy, not left policy.
Missing the forest for the trees?
Young man, you’re tangled up in a ball of semantics. It’s possible that if you spent a little bit more time exploring what flavors its context imparts to meaning, you’d find yourself in deeper appreciation of the subject you appear to claim you already know everything there is to know of it.
Blah-blah. You used a lot of words there having nothing to do with anything I wrote. Nicest thing I can say about it.
It is not semantics to point out that your use of the word [left] was bullshit, and that Left and Neo-Liberal are not in the same universe…. except apparently in your imaginary world of course. Whatever pleases you.
Please explain how Nato actions in Libya are of the left.
You remind me of Archie Bunker! Nicest thing I’ve noticed about you, you opinionated wrongheaded asshat. Now, try writing a concise dictionary and publish it, so everyone can catch up to your high level of bullshit. Nah. Don’t bother. Just relax and continue as you are, Bunker.
So… no rational response? Thanks, I now know everything I need to know about you. 1 star for saying asshat (one of my favorite insults) …. everything else? Epic fail.
Who is up for some hypotheticals about plagiarism?
Too soon?
The true national security problem: http://goo.gl/fVOh0c
larry – thanks for that great link. Pardon me everyone if I now go on a bit…
It touches on what I’ve seen as some of the basic problems with our educational “system” (from an educator’s (not retired) perspective.
I’m glad that the author states how teachers are so well thought of in those Asian cultures – while so many times we’re made to be politically the bad guys here in the U. S. . Most teachers I know work very hard and would jump through hoops for their students.
The other problem I saw is student motivation. For example, during my last semester teaching I had this one student in my trig class. They all had to do a small semester project, which counted for 10% of the grade. The first step was to hand in a proposed topic. He never did, though I reminded him a couple of times. On the day they were to do their presentations, he still had nothing. I reminded him again, saying there were still a few days left in the semester and he could even submit something to me without a presentation. I still got nothing. Although his attitude wasn’t universal, it wasn’t totally uncommon, either. In one of my better classes that semester only about half the students handed in a take-home assignment. (But believe it or not , in another, weaker class, the percentage was much higher – go figure!).
There may be many factors affecting student motivation. One I’d like to see addressed is the employment workload of students. I taught at a community college and I would say close to 100% of our students worked at least part time; a high percentage of those worked full time. Many also had family responsibilities. Of course, some students handle the juggling better than others, but overall, I’d love to see tuition-free college (that was my Mother’s dream) which might help students not have to put in so many working hours, and alleviate the accumulation of student loan debt many rack up. After all, work, family, school… when push comes to shove which one will get the short shrift?
Assange’s comments on reddit.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/28js8v/i_am_julian_assange_publisher_of_wikileaks_ask_me/
Fantasy:
“It is clear that history is on our side.” ~Julian Assange
Fact:
“History is written by the victors.” ~Winston Churchill
Assange is almost always operating in a fantasyworld.
Perhaps. But as Snowden stated to l’Espresso, Wikileaks has helped set the parameters in the debate on freedom of the internet.
These statements are not incompatible. The US global surveillance regime could not have operated forever in secret. It is equally clear the US position that non-citizens have no privacy rights will ultimately be unacceptable to the rest of the world as the basis for the operation of the global internet. So ultimately the US will have to choose between a global internet, with internationally agreed privacy rights, or a balkanized internet where US technology companies find their scope of operation substantially reduced. This is not going to be solved by a decisive military victory where the winner gets to write history.
The first statement is nonsense. There is no “right side of history” and history is on no one’s side. The side favored by history is known only after it has been written. And re-written… (And “History is written by the victors” doesn’t mean a war has to be fought; it just means that the dominant narrative is composed by the powerful, the “winners”.)
No, not in perfect secrecy. The occasional security breach is inevitable. That’s not to say that a reduction in government secrecy is historically inevitable. The long-term result of Snowden’s revelations cannot be known. The result could very well be tighter and more effective security measures. The result could be more secrecy. We can’t know.
We’re in a pretty dismal spot when we have to pin our hopes on the (financial) self-interest of corporations. You’re assuming real competition for one thing. And you’re also assuming a lot of demand from consumers. And you’re assuming that the corporations won’t just lie about their relationships with their governments… This path to greater individual privacy hardly seems like a sure thing.
But I just wanted to comment on this notion of history being on one’s side. It’s just silly nonsense. If you want to argue that Assange and anti-secrecy, pro-privacy activists have a good chance of long-term success, that’s fine. But there’s no inevitability to it, and history has nothing to say about it until after the facts are in – until a winner has been decided.
Every activist since the beginning of time has probably said something similar. If you are struggling against a more powerful opponent, your only hope is to gain allies by arguing that you will ultimately prevail based on the merits of your cause. Of course it is self serving to claim history is on your side, but it is not silly. All protestors ultimately hope to be vindicated by history – otherwise what would be the point?
You’re being silly. Maybe I’m being even sillier by caring so much about language. But, in case you didn’t know, the “right side of history” is a relatively new expression that has rapidly been gaining popularity only since the early 80’s. Google the phrase (in quotes) and you’ll get 3.2 millions hits; it’s not being used only by those opposing power: “Harry Reid: ‘Being On The Wrong Side Of Dick Cheney Is Being On The Right Side Of History'”. Maybe with that speaker the silliness is more apparent? (Assange didn’t use those exact words, but the equivalent.)
Next up: “It’s the right thing to do.” Arrrrrrrrr. So silly.
(If you’re unfamiliar with Google’s Ngram Viewer, click on that link. It’s a really interesting tool.)
The n-gram viewer is interesting; here is a comparison of the phrases:‘right side of history’ (popular now), ‘ultimately be vindicated’ (popular in 1860) and ‘we will prevail’ (popular in 1820 and now). I still maintain they are all just rallying cries – anything can appear silly if you take it too seriously or too literally. But a quick google search does indicate a lot of recent articles criticizing the phrase which is frequently used by President Obama. Just google “Obama right side of history”.
I disagree entirely that the expression is just a rallying cry or a prediction of ultimate victory. It has two implications (or premises), the second optional: that history has a tendency that favors some outcomes over others, and, more specifically, the tendency of history is towards moral progress. For example, the expression was recently embraced by proponents of “marriage equality”. One group even put it on a t-shirt: “I Stand On The Right Side Of History”. That’s not a rallying cry, it’s a claim of moral righteousness. Jelani Cobb, a History Professor, began a piece in The New Yorker like this [*]: “A half century past its zenith, the civil-rights movement has been invested with the kind of moral authority that is derived only from being on the right side of history.” Either he’s saying that moral authority comes only with success, or he’s saying that moral authority is based only on being aligned with the pro-moral tendency of history. Obviously, it’s the latter.
Those are two examples I had ready. I’m certain I could prove this point definitively with dozens of examples. Assange was (probably) using the expression only in the broader sense, but still, isn’t it clear that it’s nonsensical? I agree with the psychology of your explanation – “If you are struggling against a more powerful opponent, your only hope is to gain allies by arguing that you will ultimately prevail based on the merits of your cause” – but that doesn’t justify it intellectually. To me, it’s just nonsense, and that’s all I wanted to say with my initial comment.
[*] http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/08/obama-surveillance-and-the-legacy-of-the-march-on-washington.html
This practical limitation of one link per comment is extremely annoying.
NSA and GCHQ….you are a disgrace to the land, history and culture that gave you life. You have disgraced the memories and ultimate sacrifices of the millions of men and women who laid down their lives over the centuries so that freedom may survive.
You have allowed state sponsored propaganda to infect your perspective as to right and wrong.
You should be ashamed of yourselves and what you have agreed to do to destroy the most precious of human commodities….freedom.
The world needs much more of this sort of reporting. Many in the mainstream American media, for starters, are not of much use as watchdogs any longer.
@Put Stars by It – I can find no direct link to confirm Cindy’s quote – can you please? Thanks.
Her Twitter feed.
Sheehan hasn’t posted a tweet since 2009. She has a total of 84 tweets. None of them are about Greenwald.
https://twitter.com/Cindy_Sheehan
Correct that: If Sheehan really wrote the following, I’d like to see some explanation from her about it.
To Rancid Tarzie:
Correct that: If Cindy Sheehan really wrote the following. I’d like to see an elaboration and explanation from her:
Gotta’ love catching ass-hats with their derby’s on….
There appear to be three, maybe more, Cindy Sheehan Twitter accounts – one she has not used recently – https://twitter.com/CindySheehan – and another one – https://twitter.com/CindySheehanPaz – and the one you linked to Kitt.
Are they all real?
I discovered a @CindySheehanPaz account on twitter where that account wrote what was quoted here. I’ve twice posted here to correct my possible oversight but this weird “Intercept” comment board didn’t post it. Anyway, I tweeted in reply to CindySheehanPaz to point me to where Cindy Sheehan has made a case about Glenn Greenwald “sold out.”
@Kitt – I searched the feed mentioned and found no mention or tweet peraining to GG, hence the original inquiry. Deleted? Perhaps.
@Kitt
I’ve twice posted here to correct my possible oversight but this weird “Intercept” comment board didn’t post it.
Me too. Not necessarily happening, but it feels eels like someone’s deciding what gets published and what doesn’t.
`Kitt has politely exposed Ms Cindy Sheehan as a pretentious, naive, poseur.
sigh..
@sillyputty
You can follow the conversation (.. although,`kitt has been ‘blocked’) on Ms Sheehan’s latest twitter account (@CindySheehanPaz), via:
https://twitter.com/RancidTarzie/status/480494374334115843
blockquote> I searched the feed mentioned and found no mention or tweet peraining to GG, hence the original inquiry. Deleted? Perhaps.
More or less, that is the case. Rancid tweeted to her after I did, and she posted back to him something about my tweets being “trolls” so she blocked “it” rather than reply beyond the simplistic, lame remarks to me that she initially made.
I had never really fully researched Sheehan’s writings or speaking so I guess that’s why I’m surprised about how grossly ill-informed she is. I had incorrectly assumed that she was more up to speed on what is and what is not real or true.
If I’m a “troll” and Glenn Greenwald is “sold out,” what does that make Rainey Reitman</a< of The Electronic Frontier Foundation? She introduced Glenn Greenwald on Wednesday night for his appearance in San Francisco, which I attended.
Apologies for messing up the tags. I’m going to repost it here.
More or less, that is the case. Rancid tweeted to her after I did, and she posted back to him something about my tweets being “trolls” so she blocked “it” rather than reply beyond the simplistic, lame remarks to me that she initially made.
I had never really fully researched Sheehan’s writings or speaking so I guess that’s why I’m surprised about how grossly ill-informed she is. I had incorrectly assumed that she was more up to speed on what is and what is not real or true.
If I’m a “troll” and Glenn Greenwald is “sold out,” what does make Rainey Reitman of The Electronic Frontier Foundation? She introduced Glenn Greenwald on Wednesday night for his appearance in San Francisco, which I attended.
@sillyputty
Having issues linking to thread, as well. If you go back to her account (@CindySheehanPaz), you can follow via:
The Rancid Honeytrap @RancidTarzie
@CindySheehanPaz I reject the idea that he sold out. It flatters him.
@Kitt
Here it is – https://twitter.com/CindySheehanPaz/status/480488746488311808
“I was told today that I am “no Glenn Greenwald.” My response, “I know, I refuse to sell out.” Thank Jeebus. Sigh.”
She has more than one twitter feed.
You “discovered” her twitter feed CindySheehanPaz? Jesus christ, it’s named right in the comment I posted.
Do Glennbots even know how to read? Look, I know your guy is your love and shining star (put stars by it!), but really your defense of him is embarrassing.
Are you the one who had your ass handed to you on Chris Floyd’s blog?
Nobody cares who you saw from the “Electronic Frontier Foundation” which is a mainstream org anyway.
And I live in S.F. and the thought of you polluting up my city is disgusting.
No, I’m the one who exposed and proved that Chris Floyd lied on Chris Floyd’s blog.
If you “could read” (or weren’t a pathological liar) that would also be your take from reading Chris Floyd’s outright lies in the thread you are referring to and others from his blog.
Repeating lies, no matter from Rancid or you or Floyd or Edmonds, and now Sheehan who did nothing but refer me to those same lies, does not make the lies become not lies.
I remember your name now – you were the one who said on Chris Floyd’s blog that Greenwald was a “socialist” (LMAO) because he went to one socialist meet-up group and said change probably won’t come from within.
LMFAO.
Because socialists support Citizens United. And NSA, And imperialism.
Didn’t you also vote for Obama? You’re not really qualified to criticize anti-imperialists since you’re part of the problem here.
Thanks all for the research and confirmation – a retraction on the “ass-hat” comment I made earlier, and overall agreement after reading her feed on her level of being factually informed.
What lies has RT told? Be specific otherwise no credibility.
Like you have any cred anyway. Electronic Frontier Foundation – LOL!
I agree with the rest of that twitter commentary, Greenbacks didn’t “sell out” anything. He’s always been a reactionary capitalist serving empire and power.
Evidence? By that I mean real evidence, not any of the already debunked bullshit used to try and discredit the messenger. Good dog.
He supports Citizens United.
He supports Democratics and other capitalist warmongers, like Elizabeth Warren, Dennis Kucinich, etc. etc.
He wants reforms to NSA, not elimination of the entire program.
He’s an imperialist (see comments above about wanting to preserve NSA). He also believes the NSA/Pentagon/whoever has the right to “decide” who to spy on, including Qaeda and those deemed “enemies” by the state. In other words, he trusts the imperialists to make that call.
He’s a capitalist. Need I say more? I mean, what is it about “never selling out because he never was a leftist” don’t you understand?
Anyone who argues that Dennis Kucinich is a “capitalist warmonger” is clearly severely disturbed. Nuff said.
1,600 people (In San Francisco) listened to Rainey Reitman’s introduction of Glenn Greenwald, and then they gave him a standing ovation when he entered the stage. Which would cause anyone who is not a pathological liar to conclude that a hell of a lot more people than “nobody” cares.
What’s the point of you coming here day after day after day after day to repeat yourself incessantly with the same 3 or 4 quips?
I imagine greenbacks gets “standing ovations” and he has no credibility either so who cares. Kim Kardashian probably gets standing ovations. Should we fall at her feet and worship her the way you do Greenbacks?
How has the Trancid guy lied? You keep repeating it but you don’t provide any evidence of it. From what I can see, the guy has written exhaustively about Greenbacks’ merging with a billionnaire neoliberal who funds Neonazis and the way he treated the documents from Snowjob as well as Greenbacks’ historical background indicating he was never a leftist to begin with and certainly isn’t now. It’s probably the most exhaustive and well written takedown of Greenbacks on the web, or one of them.
I love how you just got taken down by both Sheehan and Tanzie, though. LMAO.
So I am wondering this – are you also a Neonazi sympathizer like your friend Mona?
No, [insert any name you choose to describe another example of pathologically lying], I didn’t write that or say that. I simply wrote what Glenn Greenwald has written himself rather that what Chris Floyd “fabricated” about what Glenn Greenwald has supposedly written.
Someone asked you for evidence that Greenbacks was a socialist and you provided something from a speech he gave that was nothing of the sort and it was refuted, and you also never came back with anything more. So yeah, you had your ass handed to you, banjo.
Banjo,
Capitalists and imperialists support Citizens United, not socialists. Capitalists and imperialists support NSA, that would include Greenbacks and Snowjob.
Imperialists support Democratic warmongers. They also work for billionnaires who back neonazi pro-imperialist movements interfering in the national sovereignty of other nations.
Which if you support Omidyar and it looks like from your tweet to Sheehan, you do – that makes you an imperialist as well.
So are you also a Neonazi sympathizer like your friend Mona?
https://twitter.com/CindySheehanPaz/status/480488746488311808
Here’s a new article that may be of interest:
http://www.dw.de/edward-snowden-rejects-german-plans-for-meeting-in-moscow/a-17725917
“It has already been widely reported that the NSA works closely with eavesdropping agencies in the United Kingdom, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia as part of the so-called Five Eyes ”
Why do these dipshits allow the oppressor to define the terms used?
These are not “Eavesdroppers” they are spies
Get your shit together stat.
I am convinced Americans have been propagandized into allocating ‘blame’ instead of being good.
Blame actually is promoted as the goal, even of debate; it is the emotional hit promoted/desired.
That this complicates a progressive (or libertarian) notion of decency is an understatement.
@Cindy – I have yet to hear a more concise & truer statement regarding the inability to move forward. Blame is quick & easy. Saying “I’ll help with that” takes time, cooperation, & energy.
Exactly! Women are often told men are to blame, regressive men are told feminism is to blame, citizens blame immigrants, Democrats and Republicans blame each other, and the media very consciously inflames these stereotypes so that the whole superficial community of ‘US reality’ is presented by the MSM as a whirling spectacle of blame, anger, entertainment, blame, anger, as if we were naturally this distracted way.
Trips to other cultures could show us all a thing or two, for a surrender of every last shred of dignity in the name of angry thrills is unthinkable to less propagandized nations. But we are told all other cultures are backward, even centuries behind us. We think we’re far advanced over even the British and Canadian, yet they both as cultures have a far lower threshold for ‘usual’ violence, and accord us with a respect which should be humbling.
The ‘United’ part of the United States is unnecessarily undermined by whatever-it-is that thinks a vast array of American ingenuity and brilliance should be stultified beneath divisions that, without MSM encouragement, hardly any of us would naturally feel.
The answer to overcoming “blame” is to think outside the box. Refuse all compartmentalized “labels” particularly those defined by the ego…..specifically the notion that one polarity such as “right is superior or inferior to it’s opposite polarity of “left.” Another example is positive vs negative. The reality is that a workable solution can only be achieved by integrating the polarity because one does not exist without the other.
Stated differently, each individual must recognize that order to exist both sides of any given polarity must be accepted as part of the whole. Balancing those polarities requires something of an external viewpoint which requires one to analyze the attributes of both on neutral ground. This is easier said than done….indeed it is perhaps the hardest lesson in life because it requires suppression of ego. It also requires the fluidity to jump from pole to pole (play both sides against the middle) as necessary.
To combat negative polarity in the United States, from overcoming positive polarity in the United States; we must infuse more positive influence at this time. We have the tools to do this. We have the Amendments of the Constitution of the United States of America which is the Supreme Law of the Land. We have all been given the free will to stand on the ideology written therein. Therefore; there is only ONE ideology to uphold at this very historical time in the evolution of the United States of America. It is not a choice of political sector so all arguments based on an alliance with any such sector are mute.
If one does not like the direction that “our leaders” are taking us, then we must force those “leaders” to uphold the provisions of the Constitution as it is presently written. Stand on the scale of justice and become the balance.
You make a lot of sense, and your talk of polarities fits well with the philosophy of non-dualism which makes up a central part of my path, Zen Buddhism.
Personally I’m making fewer mistakes in the context of blame, although my scathing words against the elite and the establishment are often unpleasantly colored with frustration. Deducing/identifying causes or instances of elite abuses ought to be simply diagnostic, ideally a technical rather than an emotional matter, and of course it’s true that deconstructing the propaganda which is intended to deceive, split-apart and thus more easily rule is not synonymous with blame – yet still I too often lay full responsibility for the abuse on ‘them’ instead of extending it to the flaws in the overall culture and the moral weaknesses of the populace which allow ‘them’ to operate with such impunity. In fact, I do try to be balanced, as you call it, but don’t always succeed.
My frustration is really about the artificial superimposition of polarities, which is to say the inflaming of blame as a goal in itself encouraged by the media, unrelated actually to the ‘natural’ inclinations toward viewpoints. This seems to me widespread and deliberately induced to divide and conquer, distracting from the real systemic problem, and although what you call ‘the fluidity to jump from pole to pole (play both sides against the middle) as necessary’ is an astute, creative solution for critical thinkers, it is an inaccessible answer for most of the propagandized masses who are trained to just blame some ‘other’ and consider that all the thinking they want to do.
I truly appreciate the degree of wisdom in your post (and this isn’t the first time), and particularly like the 3rd paragraph – I’ll certainly do my best to ‘infuse more positive influence.’
But those guys are wrong! Why should I be accepting and accommodating someone who is utterly, irretrievably wrong?
Are you saying that good cannot exist without evil, therefore we must tolerate evil? That’s going to be a pretty tough sell.
@Cindy & Lyra1 – These are the types of discussions I was hoping to find and participate in when I first started commenting online; which I only did begrudgingly very recently, because the opposite of this held sway everywhere I looked.
Very well said, both of you – and thank you very much. I feel that my faith in rational discourse has been a bit restored.
“The passion for revenge should never blind you to the pragmatics of the situation. There are some people who are so blighted by their past, so warped by experience and the pull of that silken cord, that they never free themselves of the shadows that live in the time machine…
And if there is a kind thought due them, it may be found contained in the words of the late Gerald Kersh, who wrote:”… there are men whom one hates until a certain moment when one sees, through a chink in their armour, the writhing of something nailed down and in torment.” – Harlan Ellison
Look forward, not backwards, eh?
Happy 31st Birthday to the courageous one! :)
So it is that day! Happy birthday to him indeed!
Spying on the subsea cable traffic is a fringe benefit. Controlling this network is a strategic priority.
Good point, Duce, and cable intelligence was definitely of strategic importance in the Great War. And that kind of electronic warfare pre-dates that. Meet Cpl. George “Lightning” Ellsworth, Confederate States Army.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/23/the-adventures-of-lightning-ellsworth/
It worries me how effective US Propaganda truly is in our Society. Read Herbert Yardley book American Black Chamber 1931 on his role in the Navy as the head of the 1919 Chipher Breau which later was turned into our current NSA-
Edward Bernays book Propaganda 1928 outlines our current corporate global Takeover.
Another day, another leak.
– – –
Dear Zelda,
The Agency has me posting comments for The Interrupt and trying to stir up stuff. Trouble is, no one gets PO’d when I call them Nazis or libtard’s and stuff. I thogut I was being original using a sexy female role but it weren’t working either.
Also, I can’t get a date with Glenn Greenwald. Dear Zelda, what do I do?
Mata Hari
– – –
Dear Mata,
First, it helps if you can type, spell and use decent grammar. These elitists will write you off as a Fox news reader, otherwise, and an obvious sockpuppet — that is, if they can even make out what you’re trying to say. Second, Nazi metaphors are so passé; just because someone called you a dilettante doesn’t put it on the same level as Operation Barbarossa. And speaking of wannabe Nazis, obvious catchwords like “libtard” are — excuse the Soviet metaphor — red flags.
Third, if you’re going for a sexy spy ID, it helps if your sockpuppet talks and looks like a sexy spy and has at least some authenticity — for instance, I see that your last avatar was Mary E. Surratt, not Mata Hari, and Mrs. Surratt was about as sexy as William H. Seward. And, frankly, you’re probably not Glenn’s type anyway, for reasons too subtle to explain.
Maybe your controller can help you with an image makeover. Provocateurs should be provocative, not porridge.
Zelda
Thanks coram nobis.
I needed a good laugh!
*coram nobis – What Lyra1 said…
corman nobbiez hunnee know wun efur mistooken Myrna an me az Fux Gnuz reederz dew too owr speelink diffumkulteez.
nex tiem u wanna bee Matta Hairy u cum burrow a boosteeyay frum me. u bee sew suckcessfool u haev awl teh en ess ay lien up foor daets don u no.
Does anyone anywhere explain why that map is lacking the western portion of our own nation? Is it a distortion of the original slide or is the original that distorted? What are we hiding, folks? You know I’m gonna find out. That’s what I do, I can’t help myself. I do it for the children who would see in an instant something is missing from that map.
But of course….FISA gives Obama administration the approval to conduct mass telephone surveillance for three more months.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/06/21/367948/us-federal-court-approves-nsa-spying/
TIP OF THE ICEBERG…
By this coming MID-WEEK there will be REVELATIONS
that will shake the very foundations of Washington…BIG TIME!!!!
My source???….My pet turtle.
“shake the very foundations of Washington”
I would prefer a complete demolition of the Washington DC infrastructure.
The very foundations of Washington did shake in the August 2011 earthquake. The epicenter was in Eric Cantor’s district. God, or somebody, was providing something out of Revelations, but it took 3 years to get results.
Thanks for the info.
I’ll be praying that ” God, or somebody” finishes the job promptly.
I think that the security system we ( Isoc,IANA,and ICANN) members are running for the sake of making the lives of the public secure from any kind of life threats, including electronic life threats(telephone,internet e.t.c)is the need of the day, being a member of the UNA-USA and a stakeholder, I was a victim of phone bugging ( my landline was bugged by local agencies) I am still thankfull to all my co workers, engineers , members of the ISOC,ICANN and IANA, for helping and making a secure surveillance system for civilised governments who really care about the lives of their public,,,they are working 24/7, though there are some people( and agents) too spreading chaos against us, but thank God, we are succeeded, thanking all co workers for their hardworking they are really helping the humanity :-)
These are criminals using criminal reasoning to validate their criminal intentions. How we let them into power is beyond me.
The criminals have always been running the rogue state they are the elite of the
Trilateral Commision and the Council on Foreign Relations. They seek a new one World order and there is no democracy only the rapidly growing Police and surveillance state. They use Tavistock to manipulate perceptions, of the masses as they continue with their sinister agendas. Its all about greed and profit – they are military minded and their wars are wars for profit. Long live the courageous that expose their lies and their corruption. The state has become the enemy of yhe people.
All pretext for security state. Some property is sacred. Welcome to the Philippines.
Nice article, but there are doubts about RAMPARTI partnership; the question is, How can Ethiopia be part of this project, it doesn’t have neither fibre optic access to internet nor ocean in Ethiopia, they use internet through satellite access
Good article, although more details of the people and companies involved would help if the remit of these exposés is to enable democratic change.
Meanwhile, Marcy has a good piece on the “revolving doors” in the US:
http://www.emptywheel.net/2014/06/20/keith-alexander-to-earn-600000-a-month-for-preventing-ddos-attacks/
While Ann-Marie is exposing the lies of the UK Prime Minister:
https://deveer.org.uk/dvr/index.php?title=Pseudologia_Fantastica:_A_Pandemic_Among_Western_Politicians
Those are for U.S. citizens:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lethJ2IMiE#t=125
John Kelly,
The leftist sentiment against illegal immigration is running at least 7 to 1 at NYT comments every time the paper attempts to sell La Invasora, Reconquista. If there’s one thing progressives get jittery about when they don’t have government jobs, it’s illegal immigration.
Thanks for posting your delusional thoughts about those you perceive to be leftist…
You think the vast majority of New York Times commenters (who also have an uncanny inclination toward publicizing portraits of themselves in their avatar spaces) are not progressive leftists?
You don’t understand the difference between leftists and democrats do you? I’m sorry your narrative is failing. Please continue.
“debbie” doesn’t understand the difference between the voices in his head and reality.
A lot of the comments at the NYTs reflect a different reality than the reality thrust upon them by the org.(of course the scared Zionist contingent readers are for all these measures,they mimic Israeli practices,that’s why we’ve become hated #1a with a bullet,they being 1)Liberals and leftists are not the same,and I recall no talk by the MiSinforMation of there being a left in the good ol USA prior to 9-11,fancy that.And limiting ones thinking to ideology is an exercise in futility and idiocy,as there different answers to different problems.
Court renews NSA phone program. http://thehill.com/policy/technology/210121-nsa-program-renewed-while-congress-debates-reform
Good thing these reformists like Greenbacks are around to tell us why we just need a few changes, but the program itself is sound.
Meanwhile, from the pages of old-fashioned surveillance, a Federal judge threw out a case against an infiltrator — working for the Army — spying on protestors in the Tacoma area. He was not motivated by an “animus”, it seems, even when working under an assumed name.
http://www.theolympian.com/2014/06/18/3188484/federal-judge-dismisses-lawsuit.html
VERY “interesting” ruling. Thanks for the link; it would otherwise have gone unnoticed. There was also a comment from a defense researcher – defendant(?) which was very enlightening.
Do a google on this operative and you get a lot of very interesting stories. That he was allegedly working for the Army is significant, as the Army isn’t supposed to be doing police work off-base, usually. Also, the question is, was this a rogue, a G. Gordon Liddy, or is this a wider practice than we’d like to think?
Will do the google thing. Enjoyed you and Tom also on privacy, too. Strange how so many place so little value on their Fourth Amendment – and First Amendment rights. Maybe it’s just too abstract —- until it really hits the individual at home.
Read more here: http://www.theolympian.com/2014/06/18/3188484/federal-judge-dismisses-lawsuit.html#storylink=cpy
Coram could you give a brief (lawyer type) explanation of what is meant by :
“reasonable expectation of privacy.”
what does this really mean?
Why did those in a private forum get treated like they were in an open public forum?
“Reasonable expectation of privacy” is a 4th Amendment criterion, that is, the bit about unreasonable search and seizure. While, as they say, the 4th protects people and not places, it does raise a question of where people can expect protection from police inquiry, say, the difference between a public square and a bedroom. Came up over the years in questions of phone-wire taps, old-fashioned phone booths, or, now, Web forums the users expected were private. Especially if one expectation was that the people invited in were what they seemed to be, and not an agent provocateur reporting whatever s/he heard, or, worse, was stirring up trouble.
Something to remember on this forum.
Thank you.
jimmy.
In these days of total surveillance, does anyone have the reasonable expectation of privacy ?
Reasonable? So they need a reason to break your privacy (your expectation of privacy),
A reasonable reason to break the 4th.
.
“Read My Lips..” (.. you gullible fools)
A case can be made that both Woodrow Wilson and his liberty inducing “quote”, were fraudulent..
Campaign Speech – 1911:
http://www.salon.com/2007/12/21/woodrow_wilson_federal_reserve/
Yes, the “I’m unhappy I created the Fed” speech apparently never took place. The other that I quoted seems legit, although even had he not said it, it accurately reflects my feelings. Here is something pertinent that Wilson did say:
“Nothing is easier than to falsify the past. Lifeless instruction will do it. If you rob it of vitality, stiffen it with pedantry, sophisticate it with argument, chill it with unsympathetic comment, you render it as dead as any academic exercise. The safest way in all ordinary seasons is to let it speak for itself: resort to its records, listen to its poets and to its masters in the humbler art of prose. Your real and proper object, after all, is not to expound, but to realize it, consort with it, and make your spirit kin with it, so that you may never shake the sense of obligation off. In short, I believe that the catholic study of the world’s literature as a record of spirit is the right preparation for leadership in the world’s affairs, if you undertake it like a man and not like a pedant.“ Princeton, “In The Nation’s Service” (21 October 1896).
The Espionage Act of 1917 and later Sedition Act is something that the government (not just President Wilson) heavy-handedly tried to apply in order to “make us safe” – much like our current elected officials, who have broadened and utilized it for things never intended.
The bottom line seems that we have and have had elected officials that feel that they alone have the power and wisdom to make and interpret laws in secret – which makes democracy of any kind untenable. Hopefully the cumulative whistleblower revelations will continue to erode that power, and give us new tools to make the changes needed that actually do reflect our Constitutional values writ larger and more clearly for all of us.
The ongoing paradigm of laws and their implementation remaining out of touch with public sentiment remains the stumbling block we are constantly asked to overcome – some say abdicate, some say change it.
““There were people who went to sleep last night,
poor and rich and white and black,
but they will never wake again.
And those dead folks would give anything at all
for just five minutes of this weather
or ten minutes of plowing.
So you watch yourself about complaining.
What you’re supposed to do
when you don’t like a thing is change it.
If you can’t change it,
change the way you think about it.”
~ Maya Angelou
2+2= ?? Something doesn’t add up……..
If this whole NSA spying thing is ALL about Stopping Terrorists doing harm to the US, then why is our border wide open?
There are more than 1000 a DAY being “apprehended” in Texas alone, mostly women & children who flag down the border patrol to take them in….. While rows of “scouts” sit on the other side of the border watching for when the Border patrol are pre-occupied, then they are able to send whatever & whomever across….. Hello??? Distraction-Diverson …….. So which is it? are we REALLY worried about Terrorists or not? This just doesn’t add up…………I’m not trying to get into the immigration debate….that is a separate topic…..MSM will cover that one…. I’m am worried about who & what is coming in under the “cover” of the mass women & children migration….. Why isn’t Obama worried about this ? If the terrorist threat is so great, that we had to implement orwellian spying practices that take away so many of our privacy rights .Then why is our border “Open Season” right now???
I am confused !!!…………………
P.S. The Bad guys don’t have to use any NSA eavesdropping Technology to walk/run into our country right now. So it seems to me that stopping Terrorist would start at the border. Am I missing something?
Unless your post was tongue-in-cheek, your problem appears to be that you are afraid of terrorism, or immigrants, or both. This fear is not grounded in reality. It is grounded in the propaganda of the corporate media.
John, this is my point….. If this Orwellian spy crap (NSA) is ALL about Terrorists…wouldn’t that also apply to the REAL world (borders) & not just the VIRTUAL world (technology)….. The Terrorist explanation they are using to support this crap is not adding up……
Not sure what your point is. We are spending vast sums of money persecuting thousands of people at the border. This includes murders of unarmed people by some in the border patrol…. if you have been paying attention. It also includes unconstitutional stops by the police many miles from the border.
The invasive searches wherein the populace is treated like criminals at airports is supposed to be about terrorism as well.
“The invasive searches wherein the populace is treated like criminals at airports is supposed to be about terrorism as well.”
Key words in that sentence is “supposed to be”………
If they want to perpetuate the delusion that it’s ALL about terrorism, they would be doing something at the border….You can’t use terrorism as an excuse & leave out a key vulnerability.
You lost all credibility right there ” This includes murders of unarmed people by some in the border patrol”.
It extends to the way travelers are instructed to pose inside the millimeter wave scanners hands-up like apprehended bandits.
Do you opt out or do you encourage that?
The point is,the whole terror narrative is horsehockey,,and the illegal immigration further balkanizes Americans,in the obvious campaign of divide and conquer.And I guess you are a white collar worker,and aren’t affected,like millions of American citizens,in having their jobs under threat,with more and more odious and punitive working conditions for the nurses,healthaides,retail and construction.My wife comes home every day with angst for the new American order of robot workers who have to give the heil sign.
You know what really pisses me off……..how many people must have known about programs like this and only 1 person said screw this and announced this to the world.
Snowden I don’t expect to be visiting Russia any time soon but if I ever seen you in a bar i’ll be shouting the beers for the night. You should never have to pay for another drink in any bar in the world for the rest of your life.
If I was part of The Intercept publication, I would be seriously looking at the source of some of the looney tune comments; could be a strategy engineered by a particular agency to sow the idea that “normal” people rarely visit the site…
Of course one truly explosive release from the Snowden files would guarantee massive visits.
Why do the looney tunes comments appear but mine do not?
THe releases ARE explosive, when assessed by citizens of the countries involved.
Safely insulated in one’s own mind from being considered as a target, makes for some interesting complacency.
While agents of a government are vetted for their unquestioning adherence to any policy dreamed up, many US citizens have passively and actively disagreed with dangerous surveillance poicies, destructive environmental and international policies, damaging and poisonous actions by corporate giants allowed through other benighted policies.
It is the latter who realize that they are at risk from increasingly draconian laws.
Whistleblowers have found out to their chagrin that the seemingly benign government policing dissident activities and intended to suppress knowledge, is willing to railroad them into prison, exile, or worse, supported by those unwilling or cognitively unable to question the unconstitutionality and unlawfulness of the actions of the NSA, other alphabet agencies, and even the highest executive, legislative, judicial, and military public servants.
You believe that there are “normal” people still occupying this planet?
People who want secure communicates use single use pads. They cannot be de-encrypted by third parties. The eavesdropping is to be used against the population at large.
there is, unequivocally, no secure communication.
even the ones doing the surveilling are being surveilled by unacknowledged departments that are and have always been off the grid.
we haven’t began to comprehend the scope and scale of the deception–the hologram of deception.
A one time pad is completely secure and cannot ever be decrypted by a third party if used properly. The big problem is that you can’t ever reuse it, and you have to have some way to share the key/pad of equal or greater length than your message with whoever you are communicating with. So unless you already have such a system set up, it would be quite difficult to arrange after you were already under surveillance, living in a police state, or whatever. If you already have a way to communicate the key with the length of your message securely, then why not use that secret route instead of bothering with a one time pad?
Follow-up on House bans NSA back-door mass surveillance:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/20/house-bans-nsa-backdoor-search-surveillance
A WWW of deceit. Time for a new American Revolution.
We are an unruly people. Government must learn this lesson.
Snowden is a hero. My fear is that the AMERICAN people are so complacent, they won’t see what a threat to liberty the NSA really is. Only a totalitarian government needs to spy on its own people. FRee societies should have CONSTITUTIONALLY limited government and maximum individual liberty. This agency should be abolished. They are incapable of controlling themselves.
Exercise In Self-Help: A Marketing Campaign
Question: Are there any Germans reading these articles and comments, who lived in East Germany, or are knowledgable about East German Stasi tactics? I ask you to compare notes.
Almost 14 years ago, I made a bargain with the Great American People. Yes, that’s quite arrogant, but that is what I did. Here’s the deal: I’ll treat ‘you’ the same way you treat the ‘other’, but I will not kill you, threaten to kill you, physically harm you, threaten to physically harm you, steal from you, or stalk you. I’ll simply analyze you, explain you, and insult you. At first, I was polite to a fault, as was my manner before 2000. However, reason was met by labels: terrorist, communist, coward, traitor (how novel). As I turned less polite, the bargain remained fixed, with very simple, mild terms. Still, no takers. Either way, it’s a deal I can live with.
Some of you don’t deserve the bundled snark, and I apologize to you, but what I’m doing is so obvious, everyone will understand who it is I do and do not respect. (The short version of my bargain was, in the Texan vernacular: “If respect ain’t mutual, it don’t exist.”)
Here are some of the results, so far.
* People in Texas I once called family sicced the Stasi on me. It all started there, I believe. Years later, in 2008, said act was characterized as ‘marketing campaign’.
* Social climbing became a wee bit difficult.
* Stasi rodents stalk me in Brazil.
* Stasi recruited rodent nurse in a Brazil medical lab: jam IV into top of forearm, instead of vein, so I would stay awake for medical procedure.
* Stasi rodents staged silly, contrived, violent episode to gauge my reaction, I guess.
* Stasi rodents tried to intimidate me in my London apartment with police helicopter for 20-30 minutes.
* Stasi rodents leer at me on London Underground commute. Maybe they did not like the fact I was piqued at Bush & Blair for provoking the July 2005 bombings, and for wondering out loud why many brave Londoners did not take the subway to work the next day. (I was really, really surprised by that.)
* Stasi rodents deny me medical treatment in the US.
* Stasi rodent insurance underwriters in CA bumped up my premium 1000%. New underwriter says “trust us”.
* Stasi rodent stalker acts out fake assault. (In the context of the death threats, possibly fake execution.)
* Stasi rodents answer the phone when I call bank.
* Stasi rodents at the California DMV sabotage driving test.
* Stasi rodent in workplace made attempt on life of loved one. (I will never forgive nor forget.)
* Stasi rodents like to use aliases which match names of Texans who delivered death threats.
* Stasi rodents try attempt to make me feel ‘shunned’ when I’m in this shit-hole — for an interesting job — sorry, no hypocrisy yet; it’s a Chinese outfit. But it has not been effective because it’s been too many years since I gave a shit about what Americans thought. Stasi targets who are unfortunate enough to be stuck here don’t enjoy this type of shielding. My adopted family in S.A. are better than that. I can only imagine how much domestic targets suffer — from the ostracisation of rodent colleagues, friends, family, consequent unemployment, and then, worse. I don’t think I would have survived if I had not left in ’99. On the other hand, furin’ targets get *the special treatment* — 5% of species perceives, incorrectly, that 95% of species is sub-human; behaves accordingly.
* Stasi rodents send emails. Example: “US Army watches domestic politics”.
* Stasi rodents send email, CCing couple dozen stasi amigos. To paraphrase: “Coming after you, publicly and privately.”
* Stasi fleas infest computer and Stasi servers serve rodent web ads.
* Stasi rodents appear to have deleted internet post-its, dated from period W had keys to Pentagon.
* Stasi rodents divert iPhone shipment to rodent lab in Alaska (as per pkg tracking slip). Said iPhone actually destined for niece in Amazonia. Stasi hardware delivered to 15 year old girl instead of intended target, yours truly. iPhone is stolen at teenagers’ party. Target chuckles a bit.
* Female stasi rodents engage in ’emasculation tactics’, a bit too embarrassing to describe here. But it doesn’t work; it’s not going to be very easy for a rat to make me feel very emasculated.
* Stasi rodent stalkers stalk and interfere with many, many aspects of life. Very hard to know what’s rodentry and what’s not; they leave no evidence. Must not give anyone benefit of the doubt while I”m inside Stasi Rat Nation borders.
* TV in Brazil talked to me — Hi ya, Newt Gingrich! How’s that “Doomed Attempted Theft Of Iraq™” goin’ fer ya? Stasi rodents also interrupted regularly scheduled programming to flash me torture pic.
* Stasi Rat Nation maintains supine, comatose state since moment of birth: before lunchtime, Sept. 11, 2001.
* Death threats, beginning (with 100% certainty) in 2004, more in 2008. Before? After? Don’t know. Don’t plan to press charges, even if boneless justice system permitted. However, will legally respond to future death threats, should US justice system evolve vertebrae.
* Does wonders for my ego. They hate that shit… impolite, egotistical dissidents.
Did that read as paranoid and delusional, or, do some of the low-tech behaviors I listed remind you of GDR Stasi tactics? No, the question is not for the dumbed-down psychopaths, the question is directed at those familiar with East Germany’s Stasi: historians, targets, and spies. Are the tactics familiar?
Sorry again for the crude language. “My soul has undergone corrosion.” (I don’t know the german phrase.)
No apologies for making this personal; it is personal. Individual targets must come up with their own marketing strategies. Oblivious Americans need to know. Like a puppy, they need to have their noses rubbed in it within 5 seconds of the event, or they won’t make the connection between their shit and themselves. I am sure to repeat myself again, and hope — not holding breath — that one day, some courageous American will lay out the evidence of the Stasi’s crimes. I would if I could, but I am certain they will not give me the requisite NSA security clearance.
What is “the ‘other'” supposed to refer to?
I may be one of the few people here actually trying to understand what you’re trying to convey and NO, it is nowhere near obvious.
The results of what now?
And what does the “Stasi” supposedly represent for you – Law enforcement, psychiatrist, something else?
And why is that?
Uh, ok….
The one question I would ask concerns:
room 101?
Is that your favorite torture fantasy?
In the absence of a description, all that is left is fantasy
yet you say you are not emasculated.
Daft remarks, Nate, except for the last one. Many people do understand the terms ‘other’ and ‘Stasi’. Stasi targets will understand ‘sabotaged driving test’, others probably will not.
Regarding your last remark about the car insurance premium increase (1000%) … your math is spot on — both accurate and precise!
To me that doesn’t really register as an insult considering what you just typed.
Ah, the language of the secret club. Seems to contradict your prior statement that what you’re saying “is so obvious.” Consistency my troubled commenter.
Nobody here understands your “sabotaged driving test” unless you explain it. But since this whole thing is so insanely cryptic, here is my attempt to turn it into a sane narrative: You did a bunch of drugs and got disowned by your family and friends, who also turned you into the cops. Hence they turned you over to the “stasi.” Because of these charges you cannot get a job. You at some point were in London and got intimidated with helicopters [while playing Grand Theft Auto]. You got sneered at because of your outlandish opinions. You were denied medical treatment so you went to Brazil, where you were convinced you were being suveilled, to get the treatment done. Your driving record is so bad that your premiums skyrocketed and you failed your driver’s test. Your computer got inundated with malware so logically it was the work of the “stasi.” Your iPhone was then OBVIOUSLY diverted by the feds to some girl. In other words, all your life’s difficulties have been everybody’s fault but yours. I could of course be completely off-base. These aren’t the words of a sane person after all.
I’ll take option A.
Meine Seele hat Korrosion unterzogen. You’re welcome.
You need help.
Nate, you guys don’t get anything right. (Or maybe you work solo, for free — a patriotic, civic duty, as it were.)
What is cryptic to you is not cryptic to all; your statement — “Nobody here understands your ‘sabotaged driving test’ unless you explain it” — will be the last word on that anecdote, for now. You do not speak for “Everybody”, and I owe you and your Stasi buddies nothing. When and if the American Stasi’s dirty laundry is hung out to dry, my own short list of counterintelligence stalking crimes will corroborate the evidence (“if” it does come out). I understand you are watching your worst nightmare play out, and you may be working some overtime to discredit targets.
Regarding the rest of your “normal person’s, sane”, BS narrative, let me point out your many errors.
Nate: “You did a bunch of drugs and got disowned by your family and friends, who also turned you into the cops. Hence they turned you over to the ‘stasi.'”
Reality: You got it backwards. I disowned family; they responded with death threats and sicced the Stasi on me. I was not turned into the cops, and I have not been charged with any crime. (Why? Maybe because I am innocent.) Old American ‘friends’ turned out not to be ‘allies’ in dangerous, difficult times, so I have no need for them. Regarding the ‘drugs’ insinuation: have another beer, smoke some Jesus… you’ll be alright.
Nate: “Because of these charges you cannot get a job. ”
Reality: I have a job. But I prefer not to work with Americans, which does limit options. Furthermore, the Stasi does interfere with targets’ employment opportunities, and rodent sub-contractors are tasked with harassing targets in the workplace. Even with these obstacles, I do ok. I have had an interesting career, so far, especially considering my origins.
Nate: “You at some point were in London and got intimidated with helicopters [while playing Grand Theft Auto].”
Reality: It was years before I accepted the London police helicopter incident was just another harassment tactic. At the time I refused to believe it was me they were trying to spook; I dismissed it. And allow me give you a vocabulary tip: being dismissive is not the same thing as being intimidated. As for playing a video game, wrong again. (At least you are consistent.) I’m not a big fan of video games. Before being recently obliged to attend a work function at a local arcade, I had not played a video game (Civilization) for about 20 years.
Nate: “You got sneered at because of your outlandish opinions.”
Reality: My opinions are outlandish to almost every American. Big fucking deal. Much of the rest of the species finds their opinions rather outlandish.
Nate: “You were denied medical treatment so you went to Brazil, where you were convinced you were being surveilled, to get the treatment done. ”
Reality: Stasi surveillance role players engage in behaviors intended to deliberately identify themselves as rodents (only to the target). This has happened in each interaction I have had with the ‘medical profession’ here in the US over the last 1 1/2 years. Hence, neither their statements nor their test results can be trusted. If you know doctors and lab technicians (rats) are untrustworthy, you don’t put your body on their table: denial of medical treatment. Again, my story will corroborate with the evidence, if it can be and is ever made public. If that evidence is made public, you are in for a very rough time. So please, keep posting your lying BS; continue incriminating yourself.
Your explanation about why I went to Brazil: another lie. I go to Brazil to be with family, and from now on, I will see doctors there, not here, for reasons I just described.
Nate: “Your driving record is so bad that your premiums skyrocketed and you failed your driver’s test.”
Reality: My driving record is excellent, and I’ve never failed a driving test, road or written, in Portuguese or English. And it was a family member’s rat-sabotaged test, not mine.
Nate: “Your computer got inundated with malware so logically it was the work of the ‘stasi’.”
Reality: The Stasi infects targets’ computers. It’s a known fact. Check out their own power point presentations for yourself.
Nate: “Your iPhone was then OBVIOUSLY diverted by the feds to some girl.”
Reality: The Stasi diverts targets’ computing hardware to NSA labs, where devices are implanted, then forwarded on to the intended targets. It’s a known fact. Check out the NSA’s own documents (with photos) yourself. Why would my niece’s new iPhone, manufactured in China, be shipped to Alaska — as stated on the tracking slip — before being delivered to Uncle Stan in CA? Let me answer for you: “I’m insane”. Now go pick up your pay-check.
Nate: “In other words, all your life’s difficulties have been everybody’s fault but yours. I could of course be completely off-base. These aren’t the words of a sane person after all.”
Reality: Being a US dissident has its costs, which I assumed from the get-go. But after so many years, I feel I’ve paid my dues — fuck you very much — and hope that in the near future you’ll start paying yours. The goddamned, irritatingly slow — yet smartly strategic — publication of NSA documentation has turned my pessimism into optimism, with understandable(?) periods of frustration. I do get tired of waiting. I would like some privacy already, and I hate being stalked by American thugs. Who wouldn’t? And of course I’ve created some difficulties for myself, as many people do in their lives, but I have not committed serious crimes. If I had, don’t you think I would have been arrested by now? And you, committed any felonies lately? Got anything to hide?
Regarding the question of whether you are “sane person after all”: I don’t know, I’m not a head doctor or a lawyer… are psychopaths clinically sane?
As for my delusional paranoia: I’m 100% certain of my own sanity. I am convinced I have a coherent understanding of contemporary surveillance role players’ tactics, COINTELPRO’s history, and I am certain I have the mental faculties needed to recognize the strong similarities between the behavior of the old GDR’s Stasi and that of the US’ contemporary version.
The Stasi’s default ‘he’s insane’ tactic is not as effective as it once was, and its lack of creativity shows they/you are on the defensive. It’s about fucking time. If the Stasi is outed — and I am optimistic it will be, even if I may not enjoy an immediate, direct benefit — Americans will have to make a choice. “Everyone” will watch them make that choice. I do expect most Americans will demonstrate their usual shitty judgement, doing what they do (e.g., invading Vietnam, sending death squads to Central America, invading Iraq, approving mass surveillance and dishing out cash to creepy stalkers, …). I expect a large majority of US citizens, if finally faced with making an overt, public choice, will stamp their approval of the slow, Murder-By-Stasi™ of any person that free, brave Americans deem scary.
But soon, I hope, they will have to do it in the open, and Americans will no longer be able to hide the true nature of their character any more, even from themselves. I believe this is the choice they will have to make, and their children — and the rest of the world — will pop popcorn, order pizza, and watch deciders decide. I think I can predict what your choice will be, Mr. Rodent.
Finally, I’ll pass on your advice to ‘seek help'; these matters are way, way beyond the competency of any Stasi rodent-therapist.
And Nate, I’m done with you for now. Swirl your BS narratives around to your heart’s delight; keep incriminating yourself.
Oh, now I am on the Stasi list!? Just responding to you earned me that distinction; makes me wonder what other people are on your bullet list for trying to understand your nonsense.
And your driving record being “excellent” despite having a 1000% premium increase doesn’t pass the smell test. You are a bullshitter and a whiny baby who blames everyone but himself. You can’t get your life together so you blame the “Stasi.” I’ll admit, that’s original, but nonetheless it is laughably dumb. What do you have to offer these “Stasi” that are supposedly tracking and conspiring against you? Anything of value at all! Other Han the ramblings of a lunatic?
Stan,I feel your pain,I’ve had it up to there? too.
Heh… I’m just glad I did not realize what was really happening at the time. (Que Horror!) I wrote it off as incompetence, not malice, but now I know the signs and the tactics, and am lucky to know some trustworthy doctors in Brazil. However, I will always have to keep an eye on those IV wielding lab technicians. Rat whiskers grow on demand, anywhere, if the price is right.
Everytime I read another asinine comment about how the NSA has/is/will have disrupted your life, I want to puke. Ten years ago a great many of you did NOT even know the NSA existed. Now, because the media has decided to maintain that the NSA is the biggest threat to personal freedom, thousands of you sheep follow the BS and bleat every time an article about NSA appears. You are the same individuals who demand to know whu US intelligence agencies did not know about/notify/stop attacks against the US before they occurred. You are the same people who watch AND DO NOTHING as your senator or congressman or president selectively chooses which law to enforce or disregard. You support the disregard of specific laws because it will advance your agenda. The US inteligence agencies can and do make mistakes. Unfortunately, these mistakes become public knowledge due to the immediate consequences. The thousands, yes THOUSANDS, of daily triumphs by US intelligence agencies that keep your life safe remain unreported.
okay
dude
i get it. your email is bombarded by incomprehensible texts and fairy tales composed by “the corrections” family. Yes, most people are weird (actually, everybody is if you look long enough) , and if aliens were to actually land in a small town where no cameras were allowed, and all the rest of the world would have to rely on were eyewitness statements, you’d have a long list of people either engrossed in the remaking of movie scenes where they play the central character, egos splashing their domineering self-perceived heroism on screen, faces of self-admiration eager to capitalize on their own importance – and any information would become, as it almost always does, secondary. Even for those with the best intentions, social hysteria would blur any meaning and sense of reason out of a simple event (important, but not complicated)- the landing of an aircraft. Without cameras or direct evidence, an event that has become engrossed in our collective mythology would be regarded as imaginary.
And that also applies to identity theft. From Star trek’s alien monsters that enter a crew member’s body and are able to read and imitate his mind, to matrix , and numerous others, identity theft, brain chips and nanoimplants have become so intensely the subject of fiction, and particularly paranoid-fiction, always coupled with eerieness and fear, and a lacking interest in objectivity, that, whether we like it or not, these very real, indisputable things have become mythological in our own subconscious. The best we can do is say “yes, i know it’s possible” – while not being able to conceive any reality that wouldn’t be framed in a fiction-tv world – thus, having to it no realism at all.
So, by taking away the improper way in which anyone involved in an unsettled situation would describe it, one can only be left with some (disparate) facts. Whatever those may be for you, there’s no question that they necessitate some form of security measures- intelligently put together – for the case in which these technologies might be aimed at those believed to be most threatening. And I’m sorry to say this, but those most feared by the secretive and powerful are not foreign militias, suicide bombers or foreign governments- it’s people like you.
P.S.: as I am not exempt from being improper, if ever you might find the time or interest, please try and secure my brain waves-I’m pretty sick of having my senses overstimulated
yours truly,
us
Actually this is much worse than the analysis here suggests.
Why? The false assumption that the “third party” countries are only agreeing to spy on data related to “other countries” but not their own citizens.
This because:
1) If the US has all these agreements with various countries to spy on citizens of “other” countries, these countries have to know that defacto it adds up to spying being perpetrated on their own citizens – duh!
2) There is no such thing as honour between thieves. Saying to the US, “have this data, but don’t spo on our own citizens” is obviously wink wink, designed to keep them from technically not breaking their own national laws.
The world has become a complete cesspool, with vipers and snakes at the controls of everything. Not a one of all these criminals in suits actually believes in their own constitutions or the rights of their own citizens. We are completely fucked.
As you know, Wilson was president of Princeton before his controversial presidency. The fact that his background was in the land of academia doesn’t automatically vilify him, but it certainly raises more questions.
Raise your hand if you believe in evil!
Do you believe that what is most forbidden is most effective?
There is a belief that to legalize torture is to neuter torture. That torture’s effectiveness is not the pain or the fear, but in conjuring what is forbidden. The weakness of good is that it is permitted.
It is here that the lie is the highest value. The lie makes even love ‘effective.’ There is no power without rule breaking. The only true assertion of power is what is forbidden.
Do you believe that morality was created to restrain the powerful? Even the best among us fight for this truth. Temptation and corruption would mean nothing if you didn’t believe this to be true.
Who would lead us if all is permitted? Who would want to lead us when all is permitted?
This is the sexualization of morality. It is covered because it excites us, yet we are oblivious to the idea that it excites us because it is covered.
We lack experience with morality. We are cursed with leaders who believe that what is evil is what is most effective. Irrespective of how we define good and evil, they are doomed to forever follow Satan.
The devil only told one lie–but it was a big one. Even now, you still believe it to be true.
To hell with the devil … “Man is the supreme talisman”
~ Lyin’ in the face of love … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt2EJUo71Mc
is the “devil” also the “god” in disguise? one in the same. . . . . ?
Well,as I said to my ghoul and zombie obsessed in -law,if you believe in the devil, it follows you must believe in God also.He looked aghast.
@bahhummingbug
I like that. Good tune too.
@sovereignintegral
Although good and evil are two sides of the same coin, in this case I can’t agree. If for no other reason than I use the devil as a metaphor for the physical manifestation of evil, but I don’t really use god as the as a metaphor for the physical manifestation of good. I’m not sure why that is. It may be that I truly am a pessimist.
@dahoit
True that is. And it works both ways. Morality begs for duality and division.
—–
If power corrupts then corruption is power.
Just so you all know … tonight was unmerciful, utter, unadulterated bullshit.. The EIGHT is now EMPTY! Using my friend HOLLY against me? Nice fucking try. You evidently don’t know me.
The EIGHT is OVAH! YOU ARE ALL on your own. I’ve not taking a fucking dime from you. Not one God Damned PENNY.
Have fun using my 411. Have fun in YOUR HELL. You will never hear from me again. I have to go to the food bank tomorrow. I have to go get a job. I have to go pawn my sister’s silver to get money to pay my fucking rent.
Consider this a love letter … my Dear John Fucking Doe to you all.
Buh bye now! ~
Uh, what?
An Irish goodbye, Baby please don’t go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wah7MqEHFg
Don’t Give up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiCRZLr9oRw
you belong here.
I, too, hope you don’t give up; please hang in there. Hope you can visit here when you can.
And in the spirit of the others who replied here to your post – an song to help inspire you :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC24GI9V_Cs
Sending good vibes…
Who is “Holly”? What is the “eight”?
How is The Intercept connected?
Look….this publication and the comment section of TI is filled with negatives. You, apparently have many problems which will be exacerbated by dwelling in more negative facts and viewpoints.
You need positive input to balance yourself spiritually. Take a look at this publication:
http://www.in5d.com/
Wishing you the most benevolent outcome with regard to your life direction.
Is the asylum breached today?But I also feel your pain.World is getting weirder and weirder with each passing day,and the absurd is now reasonable.
The nsa and the us government are your enemy,
Edgy!
Does the world situation at the moment leave you calm?Give me some of dose drugs baby!
The real tip off regarding who you’re dealing with, especially on left leaning sites, is the degree and severity of censorship exercised by the comment police. The Intercept fails badly. The Memory Hole is a prominent feature of the proprietors at this forum. It tells me more than they realize.
I don’t have a problem with NSA doing overseas snooping. I just don’t want them doing it here in the US unless there is sufficient probably cause to support a warrant.
More reading as we come up to the June 28 centennial of the War to End All Wars. The Zimmermann Telegram, by Barbara Tuchman, a very on-point sidebar as to how the British intelligence tapped into the transatlantic cables and the mischief that followed their leak of the Zimmermann tweet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kazkR05WzJQ
and from Wikipedia (one link per post restriction applies)
Probably forged by Ben Gurion.Early groundwork.The best laid plans.
How come they don’t submit the “missing” IRS emails?
We want the IRS emails azzholes.
Congress should request Lois Learner’s emails from the NSA!
You guys at NSA find any of the IRS e-mails?
So the comments need to be censored?
Some things need repeating:
““We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world – no longer a Government of free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men.”
– Woodrow Wilson, U.S. President during World War I
There always is a choice…
*Thanks to Bill Hicks & George Carlin on accompaniment.
Exactly.
“It’s only a choice…..between fear and love.”
“Why are we here? I think we’re part of a greater wisdom than we will ever understand. The higher order…. call it what you want….”
Thanks Silly Putty.
Wilson certainly knew about control and domination; his administration loosed George Creel and the Committee on Public Education on the country during WWI. He also presided over the Espionage and Sedition Acts. Made George W. Bush and Barack Obama look minor-league by comparison.
Context, coram nobis, context. These were laws, although asked for by Wilson, that were nevertheless created and finalized first and foremost by our elected representatives – only then signed into law by Wilson for reasons relevant to that era, not this one.
That the law(s) have been grievously misapplied since then has no bearing on the current discussion, in that what Bush started and Obama continued and expanded bears little relation to those laws original intent.
My readings of Wilson and his overall body of work pre, as, and post Presidency indicate otherwise, in that he was more principled and consistent than either Bush or Obama, and that despite a congress that was perhaps slightly more functional than what we have today he is more like what we need today rather than less – in other words, he was before his time.
In the end, I think it’s all too easy for entirely too many to continue to play the blame game on Presidencies and their administrations when it is the voters & lawmakers themselves that bear most, and in many cases, almost all of the credit for public policies – good or ill.
It’s just too easy to not see the forest for the trees; especially when we’re not allowed to see them (thanks again to Wikileaks, Manning, Snowden, et, al).
Whatever the case, the quote by Wilson above encapsulates exactly what I see going on today with my government, and I’ll do everything in my power to legally change it for the better.
Oh, btw – good news: the 2015 Department of Defense Appropriations bill, H.R. 4870. Rep. Thomas Massie and Rep. Zoe Lofgren has passed – it will prohibit use of appropriated funds for certain types of surveillance, creating real change to NSA spying. The amendment has the support of civil liberties advocates and Internet companies.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/06/congress-decides-this-week-whether-shut-nsa-backdoor-heres-how-you-can-help
” I resent the idea that people would blame the messenger for the message, rather than looking at the content of the message itself. – Anita Hill
Wilson was the President who re-segregated the civil service and presided over a number of incursions in Latin America, both of them executive functions and not laws. And you should consider what George Creel betokened as 20th Century propaganda.
I understand corum; but again: context, and what we learned from what have since turned out to be these failed policies. For example, no excuse for this:
http://www.bu.edu/professorvoices/2013/03/04/the-long-forgotten-racial-attitudes-and-policies-of-woodrow-wilson/
We could go on diseccting one man and his administrartion of 100 years past, or learn from all the subsequent mistakes – that voters, congresses, the courts, and executive branches since have both learned from – and not.
Thanks for sharing, corum.
““It’s being here now that’s important. There’s no past and there’s no future. Time is a very misleading thing. All there is ever, is the now. We can gain experience from the past, but we can’t relive it; and we can hope for the future, but we don’t know if there is one.” – George Harrison
Don’t forget the sending of over 300 Marines to Port-au-Prince, Haïti in 1915 to “re-establish peace and order,” and subsequent occupation. Wilson was one of the absolute worst.
Wilson was a victim of the cult of American superiority,a prevalent attitude of the time,and of course our own,but I have the feeling that that cult was more superior then than now,as it relegated itself mostly to American interests(however bad and stupid they were)than this terrible cult of Zionist quislings,with nothing but disaster for US..
See Wilson, the recent biography by Scott Berg. Apparently Wilson had been having some kind of cerebral strokes starting in the 1890s, which apparently did affect his judgment and personality, esp. at the Paris 1919 summit.
A fuller quote
https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/176386.Woodrow_Wilson
the part you left out is the most important.
From
https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/176386.Woodrow_Wilson
two quotes about something similar.
All good additions to better show the zeitgeist of the man and the times. Thanks.
I do believe Wilson to have been a great man. . I have seen the photographs of him wearing the Apron. I know he was active in the Craft.
Yet many of his words I find to be be true and not political speech design to woo the masses.
Yet bound he was to other “orders” than his own.
It bewilders me to think that the leader of a country can belong to secret societies. Oaths are given to place the brothers needs above all.
Cheers jimmy.
The Fed .
Wilson knew that the FED was more powerful in its design than the Congress.
Democracy ruled by bankers and the concept of credit.
Why vote in a sham democracy when the Fed rules.
@tombrown:
“Why vote in a sham democracy when the Fed rules[?]”
It’s only a sham democracy because we allow it. Geez, what part of “if enough people vote for it, things DO change” is so difficult to grasp?
That voting and managing those we elect hasn’t been utilized effectively is the problem – continued not voting responsibly and informatively is not the answer to it.
In other words, it’s our problem – let’s solve it.
““Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education.” – Franklin D. Roosevelt
Kill the messenger if you must; but bring arguments to back up the claims you make, please.
Voting got you into this shite and you think voting will set it right.
The President tells you that democracy is a sham and you want to vote for the best sham government.
You come back telling how Wilson got it wrong.
The argument was Wilson said it didn’t matter who got the vote s the fix was in.
What better argument is there?
@corum – Where you say “Voting got you into this shite and you think voting will set it right.”
To restate:
“We could go on dissecting one man and his administration of 100 years past, or learn from all the subsequent mistakes – that voters, congresses, the courts, and executive branches since have both learned from – and not.
The point being that if it’s broke then fix it. Your option allows that doing nothing is the answer – or do you actually have an argument?
Because the one you say I bring, misconstrued by you, isn’t an argument against voting or participation as you claim, it’s the opposite – it’s an argument to get involved.
““First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—
and there was no one left to speak out for me.”
~ Martin Niemöller
Apologies – the above reply re: voting was meant for tombrown’s schooleddaze’ and not coram nobis.
Consider a two horse race.
You can back either of the horses.
You are free to choose which horse you fancy (for what ever reasons) and to hitch your rail to its success.
Now the thing is, one person owns both horses. They have the same trainer. The Bookies know which horse will win before the race.
The owner of the horse that wins the race gets to choose the presidential nominees.
If you tell me that democracy is the choice between two corrupt parties and you will solve the problem by participating in the sham, then vote till your heart breaks.
You are only backing the corrupt.
You only vote on a choice made by others, for you.
America has never been democratic, it just calls itself that and we all know, America lies.
“Consider a two horse race.”
@tombrown’s schooleddaze’ – What I advocate is to consider changing the race. It won’t be easy or fast, but it can be done – legally.
Get educated, and get involved.
““There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
~ Isaac Asimov
And the media went apeshlt on Bush claiming that he was spying on the American people?
“NSA’s efforts are focused on ensuring the protection of the national security of the United States, its citizens, and our allies through the pursuit of valid foreign intelligence targets only.”
That’s a good thing in these modern times where wars are fought from individual terrorist cells rather than large and easily identified armies. But the potential for governmental abuse of citizens’ privacy is increased evermore by the technology, and government abuse is on the increase (i.e. IRS bias against conservative groups).
The NSA is ran by Muslims to create dossiers on people, for worldwide Jihad.
@sillyputty
But, whose idea of hegemony? Or, maybe there is no plural involved. Henry at Crooked Timber puts it well:
http://crookedtimber.org/2014/06/19/cross-national-intelligence-and-national-democracy/#more-32090
@TallyHoGazehound
Although there are, of course, competing and various forms of hegemony, I think this articles last paragraphs may describe what is occurring, although it is absent the consequences of the Wikileaks, Manning & Snowden revelations:
Some key points made:
Wellsprings of power. US hegemonic power is exercised globally through several key institutions and mechanisms:
· Economic power. Following the Second World War, US economic dominance was so great that it was able to help reconstruct post-war Western Europe via the Marshall Plan. Although its relative advantage has since declined, Washington continues to play a key role in global economic affairs; its intervention helped halt the spiralling depreciation of the Mexican peso in 1994. The dollar also remains the world’s dominant reserve, or ‘numeraire’, currency.
· Military might. US defence spending continues massively to overshadow the military outlays of other societies. Substantial elements of the US armed forces are still permanently based in many areas abroad. While this overseas basing is, in part, a residue of the old Cold War security apparatus, many areas of the world welcome these troops as the guarantors of stability and the regional balance of power.
· Post-1945 legacy. The United States had a major role in structuring post-1945 political and social systems. For example, both the German Basic Law of 1949 and Japan’s 1947 constitution reflected significant US input. Both countries were subject to US influence directly through occupation forces, but also intellectually and culturally as their new governments operated under US-influenced constitutional systems. While such influence is today much diminished, it has not entirely vanished.
· International organisations. Washington dominates key international organisations, notably NATO and the UN. NATO, which once had a limited collective security role centred around defending Western Europe from a Soviet attack, is slowly moving towards an expanded ‘out of area’ mission under US prodding. Despite President George Bush’s occasionally confrontational stance towards the UN, the United States remains highly influential there due to the size of its financial contribution and Security Council veto.
· Aligning allies. The United States works assiduously to promote its interests by influencing how other states align or realign. For example, it has promoted Turkey’s candidacy for EU membership, as a means of promoting political and economic reform.
· Ideas and culture. US ideas and popular culture, from jazz to art and cinema, have infectiously spread — rendering ‘Americanisation’ among the most significant and disputed phenomena of the contemporary era. Americanisation has its antinomy, ‘anti-Americanism’, and this cleavage operates globally. ‘Globalisation’ both overlaps with, and is distinct from, Americanisation, but the two phenomena are often conjoined in political analysis and popular discourse.
All this, now combined with the since disclosed consequences of the Wikileaks, Manning & Snowden revelations which in my mind adds weight to idea of the US being the band-leader in tearing down the informational barriers that previously protected other individuals, groups and regions from being absorbed into the hegemony.
As for “who is ” running it all? Those all over the world who already have and want more money and power – as always.
It’s always been selfishness and greed – this is no exception.
“We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world – no longer a Government of free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men.”
– Woodrow Wilson, U.S. President during World War I
Regards, Sillyputty
“As for “who is ” running it all? Those all over the world who already have and want more money and power – as always.”
Here is a supporting historical summary of central banks in the United States:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/allwarsarebankerwars.php
And an antidote already available to “the public” for these central banks:
http://publicbankinginstitute.org/
“It’s just a choice….between fear and love.”
…..elsewhere, and shit that’s been thrown at us for the past year. Seriously, what else …..
Hey Put It, do you understand what are you writing here ? Who is ‘ us ‘ ?
Your pot is wide open.
Do you see the reaction ?
I cant believe how petty and childish you all sound here! When the hell are ALL the people of the world going to wake up and start cleaning out the corrupt politicians who say they have our best intrests at heart? We need to stand together and take our world back and live truly FREE like we are supposed to!!
i like to blow bubbles
There is no progressive force, and no truly libertarian force, in the United States anymore.
Note I said ‘force.’
Everything is advertising, everything is shallow. And the elite control the ‘boxing match’ of the left and right. The likes of Dick Cheney appear to make Obama look benign (funny how they do that), and this my friends is by design. Neither side is benign, they are both corporatist militarists working for the same elite. But is it easier to fall for the ‘show’? Of course it fucking is.
Easy is not always better.
Theoretically, there is such sector known as Left Libertarians, but like baby pigeons who must exist, still evade us. As for the progressive forces, they have co-opted for the most progressive insular and ethnocentric a bunch as I’ve seen outside Birchers. It’s all about the success story of the first black POTUS, which is a monumental success story even without the flowery rhetoric. But, didn’t the NAZARENE himself warn the faithful not be be ‘like white-washed graves, which conceal the rot within” (paraphrased)
There are anarchists, anarchist socialists, anarchist libertarians, regular libertarians, regular progressives, there are a bunch of anti-(corrupt) establishment folk all over, but there is no coherent (useful, practical) cry against corporatism (crony capitalism) and militarism – both of which have corrupted the ‘consensus reality,’ the cultural milieu, the system, whatever the fuck you want to call it. America is a charade, and the voices criticizing it are paper arrows aimed at a battleship, their criticism kept carefully in the left-right boxing match instead of magnified to demonstrate comprehensively the basic unfair advantage the multinational elite have over the rest of humanity.
As for the Nazarene, yes, Jesus warned against ‘whited sepulchres,’ but this was directed specifically at the Pharisees or cultural rulers of the time, not those faithful to the Christian spirit of forgiveness, humility and kindness. To the faithful, the Nazarene said their faith should exceed that of their rulers, if I recall correctly.
Black president, white president, woman president, whoever it is should OBEY THE CONSTITUTION and show constant fidelity to the Framers’ desire to have all abusive power limited by the people.
The American people are encouraged to be poseurs instead of thinkers, and the same is true of all the nations who dominate (or cower before) this wretched and rigged game.
My rhetoric was vague, but my point mentioning the Galilean was that there is allegiance on the part of his following. Same with Obama. It’s like a religion to the Obots. They can tolerate no form of disrespect by those who don’t subscribe to the hive.
Thanks for the clarification. Yes, you are right, but I think the religious devotion extends to the whole establishment – which is to say the American people worship our own supposed exceptionalism, and only squabble about details, really.
For example, there is Cheney’s way and Obama’s viz. Iraq. Both involve more intervention (whether or not Democrats call it that or not), and the notion of just minding our own business is…well, neglected. ‘Obots’ will of course support him no matter what, but in their hearts they don’t want 200 or 300 troops (of whatever) description sent anywhere near the place, but they have to say they support him; meanwhile the GOP feel compelled to say they would send MORE violence even if they don’t mean it! I’m saying it’s all fake, and people play along only because the notion of saying America is a sham, a charade, a cruel joke that kills people, is actually too much for *either* side of the ‘America First’ Religion (which serves only the elite, really) to bear psychologically.
Libertarians who insist the USA mind its own business are completely right about this, but this is a rare expression in my experience, dwarfed by the apparently thrilling debate whether Obama is ‘right’ or not.
“whoever it is should OBEY THE CONSTITUTION and show constant fidelity to the Framers’ desire to have all abusive power limited by the people.”
Precisely! Nice.
Have you been to an actual Birchers mtg? You’d be surprised.
Anyone know what that red fibre cable from New Zealand to South America is called? I’ve never seen it listed before.
Ruling elites in modern “democracies” need to keep tabs on their citizens. The impending global environmental disaster means many displaced people will be asking for some of the resources the rich have been hoarding for their own private arks. There is going to be a drastic downsizing of the population and the Dick Cheneys of the planet don’t want to get caught in the crossfire.
You pretend the Obama’s of the world are not even worse than Bush. They are. Bush was no winner. ….but Obama takes the cake. He’s using every illegal measure you can think of and I am sure there are ones we have not yet thought of.
Global Warming and Climate change. No.
Luke Chapter 21:
25“There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”
So where are the IRS emails, and why can’t the markets be protected from inside trading?
I attended Glenn’s book tour appearance in San Francisco last night. Robert Scheer was there, as was Daniel Ellsberg. Below is a review of No Place to Hide from Robert Scheer, which is posted on Amazon. I’ve posted the full review here since it is reasonably short.
Robert Scheer review at Amazon of No Place to Hide
“It is 4 AM and I have just finished reading, in one sitting, the Kindle download of a book that I only intended to skim because I thought that I knew the full story. What was compelling was encountering the courage and decency of this whistleblower and that of the few brave journalists willing to honestly tell his story. That and the justifiable contempt for those in the housebroken media and compromised government who felt the need to besmirch the character of those willing to bear witness to crimes that almost everyone else in a position to know chose to ignore. The result is a page turner survey of just what the Snowden leaks tell us about the creation of the modern surveillance state and a reminder of the deep wisdom of this nation’s founders in insisting on the Constitution’s Fourth Amendment. This is a brilliant book that you will want to pass on to that neighbor absolutely convinced that the hollowing out of liberty has made us safer. Glenn Greenwald reminds us just why the Guardian and Washington Post won the Pulitzer Prize for Public Service in publishing the documents that Edward Snowden made available and how outrageous it is that his effort to inform the public of attacks on their freedom has left this brave young man a hunted fugitive.”–Robert Scheer
Rainey Reitman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation beautifully performed the introduction of Glenn to the stage. She included a lot of back story about Glenn, of course, and also about how No Place to Hide came together as a book. Following her introduction Glenn received a standing ovation from the 1,600 capacity crowd in attendance. The standing ovation was repeated as Glenn completed his narrative.
Please modify your UI so we have a way to cancel (cancel buton) this “Post Comment” operation if we just want to see how it works.
Thank you. :)
Noticed in that graphic that the cables were deleted from across the US. USSANews.com
I have no idea what this means, I’m afraid. You’re getting too inside baseball.
So a multi-national cabal of Big Brother Peeping Tom’s are courteous enough to provide each other with convenient legal reach-arounds, showing any courts how their perversions are always legit…?
Mr. Gallagher, your description of these dickish orwellian deceptions – is admirably restrained.
If they can’t do it legally, they can always contract it.
The Intercept is restrained, I’ll give you that. By what, god knows. I can only hope it is discretion. But if they have an ace, now is the time to play the damn thing.
I sort of disagree, and please don’t start obsessing like some oboe, lurchmeat or debbie about it – because being a grandfather is all by itself an expression of patience. If there’s some delivery strategy involved its equally possible it’ll cause more effective permanent change if done slowly, perhaps after Congressional votes are on record, or even if the do-nothing-or-worse Freedumb act has passed. It is just before an election…
Also, if I were re-launching these new news magazine/websites soon – I sure wouldn’t want all my every best scoop and report to be showing tire-tracks [up and down their back], and lookin’ already all road-weary from exposure – at that kick-off. Every true TI badmouther around here, and you aren’t one, conveniently forgets we’d have heard from Edward about it long ago if he was dissatisfied with what Glenn or TI’s doing, or how Edward’s wishes are being executed. He doesn’t hide his contempt / criticism of the NYTimes and I’m willing to accept his apparent patience here as delay he probably expected – or even wanted to happen.
Your frustration and lack of patience may be somewhat understandable though, especially if concerned about possible associations with domestic “activist targets” supposedly yet to be named. The feds were warning us a decade ago to be careful of online friends or ‘likes’ because your every activity could follow you forever. I took them at their word…
Peace, ‘my friend’ Cindy.
I realize now my tone toward you was inappropriate, and I apologize. I was attempting to be flippant, assuming cavalierly from your previous posts that you and I were of course ‘on the same page’ (or at least a similar one), and I truly didn’t mean to seem as contrary as I sounded. I also hadn’t realized how ‘TI badmouther’ I appeared. In point of fact I believe the Intercept has done all it can, I just hope for something that might be more spectacularly compelling to the stupefied populace, for such is the stuff even the MSM can’t ignore. This is what I meant by an ace. I do indeed consider you a virtual friend, and have never disagreed substantially with a single one of your posts.
Peace, beautiful peace to you, too.
Do, everybody, read Snowden’s statement to the European parliament (the “a statement” hyperlink).
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/document/activities/cont/201403/20140307ATT80674/20140307ATT80674EN.pdf
Some key points:
thanks for posting that statement by E. Snowden. Very appropriate here.
Too bad Snowjob overlooks the obvious: the entire world save for a few countries, is run by neoliberal imperialist capitalists, which by definition protects those with money, power, property and means. The enemy of that class of people is the working class. The crap about “human rights” is meaningless in this context, which should be obvious. If imperialist leaders respected human rights, they wouldn’t be destroying the planet and dropping bombs and murdering people everywhere.
Snowjob did a good thing by releasing this shit, but he needs to back off on making statements and faux-political speeches. He’s out of his league. Since he’s a capitalist/libertarian, what could he possibly add to the debate? You can see from this “statement” that he’s ignorant of worldwide class dynamics.
Whatever. I get that he wants to be a hero and some kind of celebrity whistleblower, but that not only reduces his credibility (real whistleblowers are generally killed or marginalized, not allowed on ABC interviews), it makes him look silly because his politics and understanding of imperialist class dynamics are so undeveloped.
He should just keep watching The Wire in Moscow and stop trying to speak for the working class, which he clearly doesn’t do.
Might want to read his testimony, there’s only 12 pp. of it, and he’s telling the Europeans they’ve been played for fools and have given their peoples’ privacy for a mess of pottage. This kind of talk has people going in and out of chancelleries with red faces all over Europe.
I don’t think you’re getting it. The leaderships of those nations are also imperialist. Are we supposed to feel bad for them because they got taken to the woodshed by the U.S.? Who the fuck cares? So what piddly little laws are we supposed to cheer for if something gets thrown off or on the books?
There’s nothing about any of that that doesn’t scream reformist. Thanks for keeping us posted on the capitalist reformism going on abroad, though. What would we do without you.
Yes! Those nations are residually imperialist. Worth remembering this month, in which we celebrate Gavrilo Princip’s memory, that empires have a way of coming to messy decline and falls. Where, today, are the Austro-Hungarian, Russian, German, Ottoman and British empires that went off in 1914?
I’m curious, though – are you also a NeoNazi like your friend Mona?
No, I’m just a poor corrupt official in unoccupied France.
The occasional sabotage of the comment section with lazy rhetoric (and astrology charts) seems to be par for the course around here lately, but accusing someone of being a NeoNazi, well, it’s another order of fucked up.
Ya know, if you’re running low on meds, you could always occupy a pharmacy. Or better yet, just ask the paranoid-schizophrenic in the cot next to you.
–“a NeoNazi like your friend Mona”
A joke? If so, a tasteless and unfunny one. If not, you’re a moron.
Try reading the comments of the commenter called Mona and then get back to us. She came right out and said she would support a NeoNazi funding journalists.
That’s Neonazi sympathizing. What would you call it? Of course none of her “friends” on this site who post regularly called her on it. They probably just avoided the comment like the plague. People are banned around here for lesser offenses, yet you can apparently stand up as a Neonazi sympathizer and that’s acceptable.
Hey,
Heck–we’ve all been played. Snowden’s exposed nothing new, just called out a bunch of folks to try and start a fight.
All the leaders of the free world don’t understand tech. but do understand that if you can have an all you can eat data [collection] plan…. why not take it?
We all are tied to MEGA $$$ cable, telco, or phone plans to make a few phone calls, surf the web or watch TV. No different situation.
@ PutShitIntoTheEquation:
“Introductory Statement
I would like to thank the European Parliament for the invitation to provide testimony for
your inquiry into the Electronic Mass Surveillance of EU Citizens.”
What part of “invitation” escapes your limited comprehension, rocket-scientist?
I notice that the European Union didn’t invite you to testify despite your inflated ego-fed perception that you are highly informed in “worldwide class dynamics,” and have such an elevated and developed understanding of “imperialist class dynamics.”
Precisely what do your hateful comments on these Intercept threads accomplish? Are you advancing the plight of the “working class”? No you are not! The only thing you are doing here is spewing venomous discord and pumping your over-inflated ego at the expense of those that ARE trying to improve the situation.
You are lower than pond scum yet you have the gall to attempt defamation of the stars. I hope that you gag on your own bile. You are a disgusting, slithering, reptilian, robotic, excuse for a human being; and you should be ashamed of yourself. Clean-up your act.
Your labeling of where you get truth from is counterproductive,and rigid ideological thinking leads to disaster.And I’m curious,Snowden’s libertarian-capitalist label,did he say that,or is it the MSM’s or yours?A true capitalist would have sold this info to the highest bidder,(the US govt?)wouldn’t he? I haven’t heard that.
Thanks for posting this Coram Nobis.
Quite enlightening.
Tofu left out overnight is less dry than the shit being posted here.
I don’t know what kind of gig “Ryan Gallagher” had before coming to this joint, but aren’t you embarrassed to be working here? You don’t think it’s beneath you to kiss a billionnaire’s ass AND recycle old news and shit nobody cares about anymore because we’ve been reading different versions of the same story for the past year? Really, how important was the money to you in taking this gig?
Embarrassing. You folks should be ashamed to show your faces in public. Greenbacks, of course, is the worst, but the rest of you … how do you sleep at night?
You seem to be spending a lot of time here. You must be getting some kind of reward from it. Is it just that you derive pleasure chewing on other people’s ankles, or are you paid to spread your fecal matter here? Your shit is pretty worthless, so I doubt it… although the pathetic crew at Fox News gets paid to spread shit, so why not you? Or are you one a legion of pathetic democrats who attack anyone who tarnishes saint Obama’s armor? Or are you one of those paid trolls who pretends to be further left than everyone else? Hard to tell by your petty little attacks… maybe you could tell us who you are and what the fuck you believe in?
Maybe you would be more happy with the lapdog media that controls most of what the average ignorant consumer see, hears, and believes?
I recommend CNN to you. They are awesome. Personally I do not care how many stories come out here as long as somebody is fighting the fascists using their own internal memos to reveal the massive corruption destroying our previous, but always tenuous constitutional protections.
Really, your schtick is tired and limp. But, by all means do continue if it gives you pleasure. You make me laugh.
as the brits say..here here! or is it Hear hear! Agreed. This Put person needs to put it somewhere else. all those in favor? raise your hand or pen your agreement. It is as you say good to see any blowback toward fascism and any attempt to do so is refreshing and to be supported.
Fascism is also about silencing opposing view points.So called liberals seem to agree with that sentiment.
This website is a joke. That’s not a secret. Were you really that “wowed” by this material, this one of two articles in a month, that your respect for the place has grown? You must not get out much if that’s the case.
Actually I’m way to the left of Obama, and I’m sure to you. I’m not even a capitalist.
We’re about to go to war again in Iraq. The owner of this website funded groups that were involved in overthrowing the leadership in Ukraine and India. He also has revolving door access at the White House, yet we are told this website is “fearless and adversarial.” Yet we see not a shred of reporting on Iraq, Ukraine, or India, or anything else for that matter. Just rehashing shit that was already published elsewhere, and shit that’s been thrown at us for the past year. Seriously, what else do you need to know about the spying apparatus around the world? We spy, they spy, everybody spies. Even if it was news to you a year ago, it isn’t now.
Two months ago, Greenbacks lied through his teeth to the public and said “wait for it put stars by it I’m right things will change in two months.” He’s more like a shitty salesman than a “journalist.”
So you are on of those: “way to the left of Obama”. That’s not very far left, it actually makes you center right in most countries, and the idea that not being for capitalism makes you far left sounds like a trolls fevered imagination of what a leftist would say. Many people do not benefit from capitalism. As to you being to the left of me? Who gives a shit if that’s true or not? The issue is that you are a tiny shrieking pie-hole with no redeeming qualities… at least none that you have shared thus far.
You obviously have a deep hate hard-on for the Intercept and for Greenwald in particular. Why is that? Do you spend an equal amount of time criticizing the billionaire employers of other news organizations? Where do you get your news? Is it from God? Bill Maher? Amy Goodman? 911 truthers? Black Agenda Report? MSNBC? Your arse? Do tell. What makes you hate Glenn Greenwald if it is not making Obama, Bush, the media, and both parties look bad when the light of day is shown on them? Who is doing a better job at that?
Why should anybody here cater to your desire to see more on Iraq? There is plenty of coverage of that epic cluster-fuck elsewhere. The pettiness of your posts makes me wonder if you are a reporter who got scooped or dissed for being a lapdog by Greenwald. Am I right?
And.. if this web site is such a joke, why are you here?
You are right to bring up Iraq and I am glad you did so because what a mess it is now, having been totally destabalised by an illegal war, which was based on lies about non existent weapons of mass destruction. A war for profit from a rogue nation, which cost hundreds of thousands of civilian lives. I am sure though if you are as left as you seek to position yourself then you will appreciate me sharing this article with you Published by http://www.wsws.org
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/06/14/pers-j14.html
You cant fool me anyway, because you have either goosestepped your way out of one of the NSAs buildings or your just part of their Tavistock agency.
Anyway here’s to you comrade your as good a far right winger in a socialist cloak for sure – they should have called you Tony Blair !
It appears that many people are expecting The Intercept staff and editors to save them from the reality of the message that they are attempting to deliver. Don’t do that.
In short, we have all been given free will to save ourselves. Stated differently, you are your own savior. Use your power wisely.
Hang in there South America – stay strong. Don’t drink from the Koolaide the rest of us have settled for thinking we are in any way, “free”.
Hello Intercept.
I decided to write directly to you, and circumvent Zelda.
Fact of the business is, is that y’all kids are dropping the ball.
If you are going to be in the “News Biddness”, then write something newsworthy.
Of late, you aren’t up to High School Newspaper standards.
When this started, I had high hopes for it.
Now, not so much.
Two articles in a month?
The wall in the men’s room shltter is updated more frequently than this…………….
LOL. And probably has more interesting information on it!
That we even know about stupidity like “Zelda” tells you all you need to know about the “vetting process” with these Snowjob documents. Apparently it was more important for us to know that NSA employees have a clearinghouse for their personal problems while at the same time being told “we don’t need to know” the name of a country that is spying on their citizens.
But daddy Greenbacks knows best! Let him be the decider!
About the only thing that one can add, is apply this as a yardstick:
“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”
~ Eric Hoffer ~
Just look what Breitbart’s website degenerated into,
Another no shit Sherlock moment at “first look”
Most concise and accurate summation of this article yet.
Says one with a 10 yr subscription to The Knitting Journal. Meanwhile, checking in here every 10 minutes.
Ever hear of Twitter?
Furthermore, if Snowden had leaked the documents to Nancy Grace or some other person instead of Glenn, I’d be on their website clamoring for the docs. Once the well dries up around here, it’s sayonara. I’m here for the NSA revelations and nothing more, and lately they are less than impressive.
Ever hear of asinine?
Ever hear of the DUMB-O-METER? You logged a 10+
LOL. It won’t work, he nailed you with the Twitter comment.
Have a nice day. :)
Lucky for me, the Acme-brand Dumb-O-Meter scale ends at 1,000.
I can live with a “10”. That’s not too bad!!
They’re not even embarrassed by it. They should be ashamed to show their faces in public.
“Will shill for billionnaire for money.”
“The fact that the U.S. government works with other nations, under specific and regulated conditions, mutually strengthens the security of all,” said NSA spokeswoman Vanee’ Vines.
Regulated, my ass. Regulation implies restriction of some kind. It’s pretty clear that there is no restriction when the goal is to “Collect it all”.
What kind of idiot could possibly believe these people?
If you read the article and the actual slides, you’d see that there are regulations. Ryan says:
There are exceptions to this, but the documents don’t explain what they are (Snowden: Oops!) So the regulation is there; whether they follow such regulations is the real question.
One last thing, Ryan Gallagher conveniently omits the fact that this RAMPART-A project has been around since 1992 (See Document Titled “RAMPART-A Overview” slide 3/23). So when you leave your prosaic comments that convey this matter as some melodramatic event that is indicative of the U.S.’s downfall…
[I.E. “the US is fast becoming (and in many areas already has become) a de facto hegemony,” “how long can this be tolerated?” “Surely it crumbles with this story,” “20 years ago my first class mail was sacrosant,” “My grandmother came here as a young girl from Denmark. I was always proud of my Danish heritage. No more. I am ashamed of my grandmother’s homeland,”]
…It just makes you sound historically ignorant, hyperbolic, outrage-driven, and alarmist. If this article is evidence of the U.S. fast becoming a hedgemony, how do you define “fast,” and shouldn’t we already be there!? It has been over 20 years since the project started after all.
It would have been less confusing if the last three paragraphs of your message was posted as a reply to the person who you were criticizing.
If this comments section every enters the 21st century with an “edit” feature, I’d be happy to remedy that confusion.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he did not exist…..
Thank you Mr. Snowden, et al, for your heroic efforts in pulling back the curtain to expose the devil…..
So much for the snotty assumption of Western superiority over the rest of the barbaric world because, you know, “democracy.” We voted for this.
Actually, no, we didn’t. It was just kind of done without bothering to let us know about it.
My uncle fought in three of our country’s declared and non-declared wars to preserve American democracy. My father’s cousin was shot down over Germany, giving his life to keep America democratic. My grandfather died young as a result of injuries sustained fighting for American democracy during WWI. My great-uncle spent his life in veteran’s hospitals after, while serving to save American democracy, he was beaten up and left for dead in Trinidad during WWII. Most Americans have stories like these. Our democracy, our way-less-than-supreme court, our executive, our legislators, our press, have all been sold to the highest bidder. I am ashamed for my country.
My grandmother came here as a young girl from Denmark. I was always proud of my Danish heritage. No more. I am ashamed of my grandmother’s homeland. I will never speak to anyone of my Danish heritage again.
Quite the knee-jerk reaction. During WWII the U.S. spied on enemies, often parachuting foreigners into enemy territory where they barely hit the ground before being captured and killed. Intelligence collection and cracking German cyphers such as Enigma were invaluable so I am not quite sure how this article has managed to crushed your soul. You might want to read up on the CIA’s predecessor, the OSS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Strategic_Services
Yep, you’re the only “good guy” left…
Thelma is probably not a “good guy”. Your snide comments stink. The point being made is very powerful. People died to preserve constitutional government . They have a right to expect substantive limits on the power of secret and unelected spies to invade the privacy of citizens. Do you disagree with that?
Those aren’t Thelma’s words, they’re yours. And we’ve always had “unelected spies” (utter nonsense, should we PUBLICLY elect our secret spies? No, people cast a vote for the President who in turn chooses Executive Branch leaders.) and their mission hasn’t been to “invade the privacy of citizens.” That’s your historically ignorant, cynical and painfully overbroad conclusion. And no, the point isn’t powerful. It is a platitude. Both my grandpas fought in World War 2 and it wasn’t merely to “preserve constitutional government,” but consisted of several other factors that stemmed from being attacked, supporting our allies, the threat of totalitarianism, and preventing a tyrant from further conquest.
The supposed connection that Thelma is trying to draw is simply non-existent. Tell me, what does this article’s contents have to do with WWII soliders and U.S. society allegedly being in the trash? It’s broad nothingness and I’m calling it out. Furthermore, turning this into an appeal to emotion, “they fought for our freedom!!” argument is just an insult to those who did die in WWII. Using their sacrifice to make some muddled, unintelligible point is the real problem here.
quote”You might want to read up on the CIA’s predecessor, the OSS (snip)”unquote
Says Mr. Clueless…..
The Park Report
Parts 1 to 3:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjM2o1Nm9YTk5ibTQ/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 1 to 10):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjMWVNQnVwd2tEbzA/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 11 to 20):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjMGNXcWlzNGNJcFU/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 21 to 30):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjb3hfVVFWeGd4ajA/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 31 to 40):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjUnE1VWpMZ2JrV0U/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix II:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjQ1ZBUldTa0dxcVU/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix III:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjZ2EtQVlReXFKRjA/edit?usp=sharing
Knee jerk. Right. Fuck you Nate. You don’t have a clue. My dad was a member of the PBY crew who discovered the Jap fleet heading towards Midway. He would spit in your face if not kick your ass. From North Korea, to Vietnam , he couldn’t believe how foriegn policy changed by virtue of lies. After Bush lied us into Iraq, he was outraged at what our military had become to the point on his deathbed, he made me promise to send his uniform and medals back to the Pentagon, with a stinging letter to Obama and the DOD for their mockery of what soldiers died for in WW11. In essence, he too was ashamed of what America had become. So eat shit fuckface. And btw, your mention of OSS is pitiful. Here’s the truth and living proof you are an idiot.
The Park Report
Parts 1 to 3:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjM2o1Nm9YTk5ibTQ/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 1 to 10):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjMWVNQnVwd2tEbzA/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 11 to 20):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjMGNXcWlzNGNJcFU/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 21 to 30):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjb3hfVVFWeGd4ajA/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 31 to 40):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjUnE1VWpMZ2JrV0U/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix II:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjQ1ZBUldTa0dxcVU/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix III:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjZ2EtQVlReXFKRjA/edit?usp=sharing
6th try. Hahahaha… “posting to many comments to fast. Slow down” Fuck you.
Knee jerk. Right. Fuck you Nate. You don’t have a clue. My dad was a member of the PBY crew who discovered the Jap fleet heading towards Midway. He would spit in your face if not kick your ass. From North Korea, to Vietnam , he couldn’t believe how foriegn policy destroyed thousands of American lives by virtue of lies. After Bush lied us into Iraq, he was outraged at what our military had become to the point on his deathbed, he made me promise to send his uniform and medals back to the Pentagon, with a stinging letter to Obama and the DOD for their mockery of what soldiers died for in WW11. In essence, he too was ashamed of what America had become. So eat shit fuckface.
Oh here we go with the false indignation and sniveling, as if anything I said was defamatory towards the memory of your dad or any other soldiers. And the “he’d kick your ass” part! That’s just icing on the cake.
[User: ‘Strawman’ enters the room]
So let me understand this: after Bush lied about Iraq, your dad was so outraged that on his deathbed he made you send a stinging letter to Obama (why Obama, it was Bush that lied!!) talking about making a mockery of what they fought for in a completely different war. That makes little sense at all. Iraq’s failure is not a smear on what was achieved during WWII.
LOL, what an obscene rant. Here’s some reading for you: http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/20-appeal-to-anger
You are obviously butthurt over the release of this info. People who dont care just shrug and move on. You know the releases are big news and this is your way of expressing your butthurtedness….
Go on, I will wait here with milk and cookies for your snide remark that is so eloquently thought out….[crunch, dunk, crunch, crunch]
I have become ashamed of what the US has become. Our government’s might makes right attitude toward the rest of the world is not what I want my name connected to. I, for one, will speak my mind and let others do the same. We are rushing headlong into an ecological nightmare where shortages of food and water will be the source of war. They already are. In some respect I’m almost looking forward to my inevitable death but am afraid for my children and grandchildren. It’s all about resources and the US will do anything(including spying on everyone) to make sure it gets more than it’s share.
Chronicle, I’ve no reason not to believe you. I offer sincere condolences for the loss of your father. If what you say is true, he was, and you are, Americans who actually deserve plenty of respect. You are extremely rare. But I humbly (and possibly mistakenly) ask you to not overlook the fact that the people killed by American soldiers in their unprovoked, offensive wars were human beings; their lives were just as valuable as Americans’. Some say more so, and the American valuation sinks a bit each day.
On a bit lighter note, re: Nate & Co. (‘The Dumbed Down Psychopath Brigade’). Fuck Polite. That these recreational, career killers are offended by impolite language is ludicrous. They are staring at a lifetime of disrespect, and watching them trying to get their heads around that never ceases to amuse.
Replace “offended” with “highly entertained,” and “impolite language” with “idiotic rants,” and “career killers” with something that actually makes sense and you’re spot-on.
RE, Nate: “Replace “offended” with “highly entertained,” and “impolite language” with “idiotic rants,” and “career killers” with something that actually makes sense and you’re spot-on.”
Nate, you forgot the ‘insane’ label, but ‘idiotic’ is enough to hurt my feelings.
Anyway, how does one politely dissent? How does one politely ask “please stop stalking me”? And who’s going to believe your and your comrades have been highly entertained by the WikiLeaks, the NSA leaks, the geo-strategic failures, and have been responding to them ‘intelligently’?
Remind me of when I complained about politeness?
Irrelevant
Nonsensical
How does one politely ask “please stop stalking me”? And who’s going to believe your and your comrades have been highly entertained by the WikiLeaks, the NSA leaks, the geo-strategic failures, and have been responding to them ‘intelligently’?
Sounds like he hit a nerve. I would have just burned his medals and uniforms. They’re not worth anything anyway, since they represent the crimes and blood of imperialism.
I am ashamed of my grandmother’s homeland. I will never speak to anyone of my Danish heritage again.
– – –
Throwing out the baby with the bathwater, are we? As long as we’re bringing up WWII here, you might read Bo Lidegaard’s Countrymen, the lesson being that Denmark frustrated the German roundup of their Jewish countrymen by an act of refusal. They didn’t go along then and they don’t have to now.
Good read, everybody, check it out.
“Former Vice President Dick Cheney and his daughter Liz sat down with Megyn Kelly to talk about their joint column slamming President Obama on Iraq and a whole host of other foreign policy issues, but Kelly wasted no time in grilling Cheney on his role in the quagmire Iraq is in today.
“She opened the interview by referring to Cheney as “the man who helped lead us into Iraq in the first place,” and told Cheney, in response to his claim that rarely has a president been so wrong about so much, “Time and time again, history has proven that you got it wrong as well in Iraq, sir.””
http://www.infowars.com/megyn-kelly-confronts-dick-cheney-history-has-proven-you-were-wrong-on-iraq/
[VIDEO]
Good for her. Not sure if you all read the WSJ Cheney article she refers to (http://online.wsj.com/articles/dick-cheney-and-liz-cheney-the-collapsing-obama-doctrine-1403046522) but it is truly painful. Cheney is simply an asshat.
He said “rarely has a U.S. President been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many” and used as an example Obama’s statement about Core al Qaeda being on its heels. Problem with that is that ISIS ISN’T core al Qaeda. And to hear Cheney go off on Obama being wrong at the “expense of so many” considering his track record should shatter your mind’s ability to process hypocrisy.
Cheney’s solution is implied: the U.S. should have remained in Iraq indefinitely. It’s absurd. My perception of the biggest failure is in the Intelligence Community. NSA, CIA, DIA, et al have once again been caught with their pants down. There is no indication that they saw this coming at all.
Cheney also condemns him for trying to leave Afghanistan, as if 10 years there has been really productive. Cheney is a hack of the highest order. You’d think that terrorists, guerrillas, and groups like ISIS (which has basically become a conventional army) were something new to the world that the U.S. can permanently abolish.
And his ending part: “President Obama is on track to securing his legacy as the man who betrayed our past and squandered our freedom.” I can only shake my head in disbelief.
This was one of my first reactions as well. So, we ARE collecting it all in Iraq … since that’s where Keith Alexander began this NSA “collection posture”. Why didn’t they knwo this was happening, again? Not that they would have any more choices than they do now, but can someone tell me again wha the purpose of the mass, ubiquitous, suspiciionless surveillance is again? Uh, terrorism/national security? I don’t think so. Souldn’t see the Boston Marathon bombers coming (even though they were tipped off, much like 9/11) and couldn’t see a bloody civil war in Iraq coming. Boy, they’re gooooooooood.
Comrades?Commies.I mean really,if there are any still left,their either belly up sighing their last breath,or at the cash machines.And the trotskites are all neolibcon neocapitalists,a scorched earth policy of human disaster,with inhuman consequences.Look around,outside the gated community.
And there’s “The Gall of Dick Cheney,” by Charles M. Blow.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/opinion/charles-blow-the-gall-of-dick-cheney.html?hpw&rref=opinion&_r=0
He quotes Cheney thus:
“Iraq is at risk of falling to a radical Islamic terror group and Mr. Obama is talking climate change. Terrorists take control of more territory and resources than ever before in history, and he goes golfing.”
Mr. Cheney must think that we have all forgotten the scene from “Fahrenheit 9/11,” Michael Moore’s 2004 documentary, in which President George W. Bush, brandishing a club on a golf course, looks into the camera and says,
“I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers. Thank you.”
That is quickly followed by, “Now, watch this drive,” and a shot of Bush swinging at the ball.
@coram nobis – Your evaluation deserves the video summation of former President Bush uttering those infamous words:
“I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers. Thank you. Now, watch this drive.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3p9y_OEAdc
“…Islamic terror group…”
——————————-
There’s absolutely nothing Islamic about terror/terrorism!
Great article, I liked this quote at the end:
Sorry, is there a reason we should care about spokespeople from one faction of the capitalist class criticizing another one?
Only inasmuch as these members of the ruling class, if launching a harebrained adventure in some part of the world, will be expending the lives and treasure of the plebeian class. While solons like Cheney and Rumsfeld can dodge the draft, they can still spend others’ blood and money, maybe by shaming Obama into doing it this time, and maybe taking on Russia as well.
The Austro-Hungarian ruling class did something like that 100 years ago, dealt with terrorism by invading one country and picking a fight with Russia as well, and it didn’t do anybody — rulers or ruled — much good. See A Mad Catastrophe: The Outbreak of World War I and the Collapse of the Habsburg Empire.
It’s not news to anti-caps and anti-imps that the “plebeian class” is used as fodder for imperialist adventurism. But don’t you sound so anti-cap today! Wow! For a minute there you had me fooled.
Coram nobis just might be the class act you never emulated.
I read the article, would like to comment,
but the comments are too faint to see, easily.
It’s a shame to see a good site go down,
but I’m tired of struggling.
Baloney, then why are you replying by saying you are too tired of the struggle required to reply?
As to the article- yet another proof of how the PTB are dehumanizing the people of the world. The NSA et al is becoming as much a part of our life as the air we breathe- yet unlike the air we breathe, offers us no benefits- only oppression.
If you want good news, the New York Times is running pieces on the Mumbai architect Hafeez Contractor (in a country where I detect rising income inequality), as well as editorializing against professional football team name slurs.
As a huge volume of data is collected, a huge volume of data must be stored locally or transit to a storage facility. A private network capable of this bandwidth and dedicated to such a purpose would be required. Or perhaps the collection, analysis, and retrieval systems are placed on site with a backbone that ties these together for remote access. Maybe both. Either way, the systems must be hugely expensive and involve significant technical resources.
How is the cash and infrastructure kept so well hidden?
If decent Americans can’t pull the plug on cashflow, perhaps we can appeal to the moral conscience of the technologists who enable these crimes? If, of course, such can be found.
There are more Snowden’s who can have impacts without endangering themselves. All it takes are these words: “I quit”.
Occupy wants to support Big Government, so they’re happy to support public Working People with the kind of largesse that you selfishly wish to pull the plug on.
It’s important for the progressive left to continue to get this kind of leverage for the public servants it champions:
_”Cop who punched Occupy Wall Street protester gets tax-free disability pension“_
“Deputy Inspector Johnny Cardona has been granted three-quarters tax free disability pension of roughly $120,000 a year for injuries suffered during his violent encounter with Felix Rivera-Pitre n the Financial District in October 2011.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/punched-ows-protester-tax-free-disability-pension-article-1.1828434
The state can afford it.
Uh, debbie… I can’t tell if you’re being ironic or what? “Occupy wants to support Big Government, so they’re happy to support public Working People with the kind of largesse that you selfishly wish to pull the plug on.” Is this some kind of snark? Occupy is supporting “Big Government”? Huh? And what the hell is the “progressive left”? “Progressives” abandoned the so-called “Left” (or what passes for it in the USA) at least 10 years ago. Pretty nasty with the cop thing tho. Now, are the cops not considered part of “Big Government” so the Occupy people don’t consider that they support them as well? I’m not getting it.
The moral conscience of the technologists ? Isn’t that kind of like trying to reason with HAL from 2001?
Thank you Ryan for this publication. Fireworks by far going off on this one. Holy hell. All of these countries complicit in NSA spying, the millions we probably pay them to do it, the manipulation of the boundaries each of them set and completely disregard like just for appearances. Makes me sick
Superficial analysts often accuse the US of conducting cowboy diplomacy. Quite the contrary; based on this article, they are carefully constructing a coalition of the complicit. And of course, they will be criticized for that too. When you are criticized whatever you do, it ultimately drives you to operate in secrecy.
Express your unconditional support for government spying and they will start to be more open about it.
I unconditionally support my government conducting all-encompassing spy operations on you and yours. So, will they share with me all the information they have collected on you and yours?
You appear to be advocating a selective elimination of privacy. That is also what I had in mind. Political leaders would be exempt, since they must communicate a vision for a better society, a task which would be undermined if their true natures were revealed.
Hey Benito .. I guess you didn’t get the message the first time around? You know..the day they hung your idol and his wife upside down and beat them to death? Of course, I know it’s difficult to fathom such a demise when your skull cavity is filled with jello.
Uh… @chronicle: WTF? You know BM … what’s your problem today? Have you been hacked? This isn’t you – Pull yourself together and get back on our bandwagon. I need your swearing poetry!
chronicle likes to indulge certain fantasies – I wouldn’t deny him that pleasure. He is of course quite correct to distrust anyone who adopts the screen name Benito Mussolini. I have sometimes wondered if my name biases people against the opinions I express. But then I reflect that what I write is so obviously true, that no one could possibly disagree.
You really shouldn’t exclude political leaders, Duce. Your intelligence people failed to tell you your generals — and your son-in-law — were cooking up a coup d’etat against you, and that Gen. Maxwell Taylor was in Rome negotiating with them.
Or maybe your people were spying as hard as they could, but still couldn’t catch everything. Wasn’t a case of spying too much as it was they couldn’t spot the fly in the marinara all the time.
You are correct. The word ‘leaders’ should not have been pluralized. Unfortunately, conspirators often take precautions against being spied on. Hence, as you are aware, those who appear suspiciously innocent invariably pose the gravest danger. Even the most vigilant leader can sometimes fall into the trap of complacency and forget this simple fact.
I’m all for the US govt. doing absolutely nothing overseas,while doing something good and constructive here at home.(sheesh)And complicit,yes, they are criminals.
Yankee Come Home!
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he did not exist….
Glen, thank you, your team, and of course our hero, Mr. Snowden, on pulling the curtain down to expose the devil…
It’s all so hopeless. With this massive machinery in place why does anyone think there is any stopping it?
I do thank you Mr Ryan Gallagher for this article and the accompanying Snowden documents.
I do hope you could shed some light on what you mean by “collaboration”.
.
What do you ever mean sir?
I ask, for the precedent article ( I assume in collaboration with de spiegel) has vanished from the Intercept
and may only be found in the dim dark dingy corners of the archives.
What up with that?
That fixed that, they did
The Der Spiegel article is here.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/06/17/germany-nsas-largest-listening-post-europe/
You can also find it by clicking on the THE // INTERCEPT title, top of the page (not the News or Greenwald, etc. tabs).
Cheers coram.
For a while that article did not show anywhere except in the archives. They have fixed it.
5th time trying to post(god I’m sick of this shitty comment section here)
TallyHoGazehound said:
quote” I can’t help but wonder what else will be revealed in ten or 20 years when some obscure newly revelaed document slips a puzzle piece into place and the depth of the rot is revealed to be unfathomably lower than we currently imagine.”unquote
Well here’s a few pieces of the puzzle right now….
The Park Report
Parts 1 to 3:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjM2o1Nm9YTk5ibTQ/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 1 to 10):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjMWVNQnVwd2tEbzA/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 11 to 20):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjMGNXcWlzNGNJcFU/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 21 to 30):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjb3hfVVFWeGd4ajA/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 31 to 40):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjUnE1VWpMZ2JrV0U/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix II:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjQ1ZBUldTa0dxcVU/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix III:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjZ2EtQVlReXFKRjA/edit?usp=sharing
Btw… Dear NSA …eat me.
“under specific and regulated conditions”
What specific conditions? What regulations? Who specifies? Who regulates?
A speed limit is specific. It is enforced by police and overseen by judges. When someone gets caught violating the the speed limit, they pay a fine or go to jail. Violations are punished.
When has anyone in the NSA been cited for violating specific regulations?
Who decides what is a violation anyway? What penalties follow? So far the only people being punished are those like Thomas Drake who call attention to this inbuilt lack of oversight.
If NSA were truly acting in specified ways and were effectively regulated, none of what Snowden revealed would have been a revelation. Paid flacks like Vanee Vines wouldn’t have the arrogance of power to bullshit the public with vague and meaningless abstractions to which the public has absolutely no legal access.
Thank you Milt for your continuing contribution.
No legal access.
Yes the NSA acts with impunity. No redress for the public for their lawlessness.
The concept of justice requires accountability under the law, all being under the law.
The phrase ‘ For reasons of National Security’ has more sway in high courts than the Constitution.
I see no solution to the current situation, except that which lies in the thought, that when justice is gone there is always force.
J. ‘Legs’ Jammer..
Kudos to your niece.
Brain of J
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqb9cttjE30
bah will call me legs. bah would be right to do so.
but then think
I just noticed that recently on website that ISI Pakistan have a specific unit called ” signal gathering for internet” and i was wondering a while ago whether this is NSA another branch.
Eventually Democrats/Leftists will have to acknowledge supporting Obama because his policies and actions are resulting in the destruction of the Evil United States–therefore he is doing “God’s Work”. Whatever it takes I guess. Whatever he needs must be countenanced.
Does no one in the MSM ever investigate, like Bernstein and Woodward did in the ’70’s, their kind of investigative reporting would never happen today! Just read about Yellen saying yesterday how the economy is improving slowly, b******t, just look at this graph of “Money Velocity”, so called M1 and M2
http://raynoreport.com/13/07/shocking-collapse-in-money-velocity-might-be-scaring-fed/
How can you have recovery when money velocity is collapsing, just more lies for the “sheople”
MSM doesn’t have to investigate. They get to make up whatever shit they want to … check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Akre
I haven’t heard of Bernstein lately,but Woodward is still spewing his quisling Zio crap still,he works at the nexus of misinformation for Zion,WAPO.They are still spewing,after causing thousands and thousands of dead,maimed and injured,and trillions up in neocapitalist smoke.All over the place,serially lying,and getting paid for it.Where’s those Islamic and jihadi drones to take out propagandists here?Awlaki wishes to know.
I KNOW that the NSA, GCHQ, and Canada’s CSEC and CSIS placed me under surveillance, because I was told so by a Canadian Personnel Security Screening Division officer identified to me as Andre Lavallee. It involved multiple in-absentia Federal Court proceedings in which concocted information was presented in order to justify the proceeding itself, as well as support for pointless and unwarranted ‘investigations’ of my personal and professional affairs by multiple agencies. The Canadian’s didn’t want to be embarrassed that the NSA, GCHQ, and ISNU were picking my life apart looking for a morsel of justification. They were happy to have me portrayed as a threat or otherwise unlawful as a ‘courtesy’. Later, my complaints were met with false allegations of delusional paranoia from two Canadian Forces psychiatrists whom I’ve never met. However, the delusional paranoia was in projected form and not emanating from me.
In a locked room in the Canadian Security Intelligence Service offices in Ottawa, Canada, on September 6th, 2007, I was threatened that I would never see my children again and he stated that CSIS would want to know my movements and if CSIS couldn’t do it they’d get the British to do it, implying Mi5, Mi6, and GCHQ with the likely help of the NSA. “Are you going to STAY in Canada”, he said. The Canadian Security Establishment didn’t want me embarrassing the puerile Canadian reputation by travelling to Europe amidst pervasive surveillance even though it was simply to visit my children. I was told directly that CSIS would want to know my whereabouts with the assistance of GCHQ. It appears as if there was an initiative to keep me from travelling to Europe, in support of the developing concocted threat narrative.
In 2005 while travelling to Europe, I was hospitalised in France. One evening, a group of individuals unknown to me, entered my hospital room and attempted to get me to stand on broken legs by lifting me by the arms out of the hospital bed, in what appeared to be some form of attempted extraction.
After a move to Hong Kong in 2008, I had an unknown individual approach me while seated in a Café in Hong Kong and as she walked by she said, “we can make your life difficult” and “we understand you have a family”. And they were willing to use the threat of force, which included Canadian Forces counter-terrorist units (JTF-2) to achieve it.
Not long ago, while on a trip to Germany, while shopping in a grocery store, an unknown individual approached me and took my photograph three times in less than two minutes. Presumably, this was to test my reaction to invasive human intelligence gathering in addition to electronic surveillance. The NSA and German BND are at least partly focused in ‘extremists’ travelling between Europe and Central Asia. I travel frequently between Germany and Hong Kong making me a prime candidate for the delusional paranoia of multiple agencies exacerbated by the willingness of Canadian agencies, to disavow my legitimacy, and use me as a surveillance target authorised by multiple Canadian CSIS Federal Court Warrants in-absentia.
The reason?
I was the pilot in command of a Boeing-747 freighter aircraft in 2003 involved in a near mid-air collision in British domestic airspace, where an approaching military aircraft or military drone aircraft came from the near vertical and missed by 400 feet. This was at a time, following 9/11, where George W. Bush, Tony Blair, and then Canadian Prime Minister, Jean Chretien, had all authorised the military take-down of aircraft suspected of being associated with terrorism. I had previously taken airline simulator refresher training in the United States, seven months prior to 9/11 at the same time as did the 9/11 hijackers. Upon my return home, I received a security telephone call questioning the legitimacy of my aircraft training and pilot licences.
Canadian and British authorities subsequently disavowed my legitimacy based on context-less data mining of my movements, residences, and telephone calls, while I was lawfully resident at the time in Germany. The Canadian Integrated Threat Assessment Centre would have been unaware that I was lawfully resident in Germany on a residence visa, and would have simply assumed that I was an errant Canadian on an unlawful over-extended stay overseas. This was amidst the stated fear by the United States of a Canadian connection to 9/11. This assumption helped to fuel the confirmation bias of the other agencies. This would have been linked to airline simulator training, which I took in the United States 7 months prior to 9/11 and falsely assumed to be suspicious in light of the 9/11 hijackers activities. Delusional paranoia and negligent failure to test for bias regarding my legitimacy as an airline pilot led to the authorisation of an attempted ‘take-down’ of my civilian Boeing-747 freighter aircraft upon entering British domestic airspace in 2003. GCHQ would have monitored my airborne radio transmissions of the incident and would have had access to my mobile telephone conversation with the Air Traffic Controller afterwards. The surveillance would have allowed tracking of my location afterward.
The threat assessment leading to an intentional military near mid-air collision in British airspace was a military error borne out of false and concocted information regarding my legitimacy proffered by Canadian and British sources. This would have included then Associate Deputy Minister of National Defence, Margaret Purdy, who is now a Transport Canada Security Consultant with an interest in seeing my aviation legitimacy invalidated.
The British Civil Aviation Authority and Manchester Air Traffic Control covered up the incident and it was not reported as is required by law. The subsequent surveillance and threats directed toward me was part of a ‘threat-narrative’ campaign to discredit me, lasting over a decade. The intent was to have me portrayed as a threat, after-the-fact, in an attempt to justify military action and protect Margaret Purdy and CSIS’s Louise Doyon, and CBSA President, Luc Portelance, from exposure to malfeasance. Done as a ‘courtesy’ with threats directed toward me in order to ensure my silence. That’s what these folks do with data mining.
Great article Mr. Gallagher!
Thank you.
I agree Lyra1, and recommend the very prescient and well stated piece by Richard Sharp linked to below:
https://www.policyalternatives.ca/publications/monitor/december-2005-right-privacy%E2%80%94-new-oxymoron
Ditto!
Great article Sillyputty!
Given that privacy is an inalienable human right, why are humans not able comprehend that many more of “us” than the “elites”? When exactly will humans begin to understand that we must begin to collectively demand our rights to exist as free and independent agents and guardians of our own conscious desire to be free?
What abstract principles are really binding humanity? In truth, people are binding themselves with their own belief systems forged in the lies of religions, false history, politics, governments, and economics all created to instill fear and division; all forged in systemic lies by the oppressors for the purpose of oppression and then expanded by repeated indoctrination.
So how do we overcome the oppressors? Free will. Refuse to believe the lies. Question everything that you have been indoctrinated to accept as reality. Understand that terms such as right, left, progressive, liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, libertarian, Christian, Muslim, etc…etc… are nothing more than concepts created to create clear societal divisions with the express purpose of fomenting conflict and derision, and specifically designed to prevent a unified oppositional force to perceived authority. To divide is to conquer and let there be no mistake that the authors of “One World Government” are using that concept to create and perpetuate their repression.
Intuitively we all know that by natural law we have inalienable rights. Now is the time to jump out “of the box.” First….we must gain our economic freedom. Screw the Central Bankers (Federal Reserve, IMF, World Bank, BIS) and their minions of corporate and government entities. Food, water, and energy are critical for survival of our species and these must not be economically controlled or rationed by “elites” or any of their representatives. Fear and indoctrinated ideologies are the negatives which must be individually overcome; and when enough people overcome those limiting factors…..a large collective or army of oppositional force will form. The shear size of that army will defeat and bring the oppressors to justice.
Excuse my rant but we are collectively running out of redemption time on this planet. Do not expect an external “savior” because you are the savior, we are the saviors. Now is the time for corrective action.
” Do not expect an external “savior” because you are the savior, we are the saviors. Now is the time for corrective action.”
Well said and very appropriate rant, Lyra1 – never apologize for those; we actually need more.
And despite the naysayers that belittle the laws and the legal means already at our disposal (which does include voting, protesting, boycotting, contacting independent journalists, your representatives, etc…), the problem is primarily due to public apathy, because it remains that:
1) We got into this mess because of a lack of accountability over decades from those who did vote, but voted irresponsibly or used poor information to make decisions; and
2) We continue to lack the collective political will and mechanisms to affect the needed change even now, despite being given, empirically, the information that the government(s) that we’ve elected are working at cross-purposes with those who elected them.
3) We have the tools already to fix these messes – the question is: when, if ever, will we use them?
As history has repeatedly shown – a more effective & transparent government will not arrive by itself – openness and lawfulness is something we have to produce together using actions, not words.
““What I used to say to people, when I was much more engagé myself, is that you can’t be apolitical. It will come and get you. It’s not that you shouldn’t be neutral. It’s that you won’t be able to stay neutral.” – Christopher Hitchens
““After all, if you do not resist the apparently inevitable, you will never know how inevitable the inevitable was.” – Terry Eagleton
““Elections belong to the people. It’s their decision. If they decide to turn their back on the fire and burn their behinds, then they will just have to sit on their blisters.”
Abraham Lincoln
*Apparently, according to some I’m behind on my quote quota…
Regards, Sillyputty
I saw a segment on Fox News a couple weeks ago that you all were going to be releasing the list of names the NSA has listened into or targeted or something to that effect later that week. It’s been a couple weeks now, where is it?
k. I break now. Wrote this maybe 8 years ago. Think every word still applies.
https://www.policyalternatives.ca/publications/monitor/december-2005-right-privacy%E2%80%94-new-oxymoron
“How ironic that the United States is leading the charge to sacrifice individual rights at the “national security” altar. The USA Patriot Act is 340 pages of classic Orwellian newspeak. The word “homeland” is itself eerie, reminiscent of a rather discredited “fatherland” from long ago.”
Richard Sharp – Very well said and timely – much too much so, unfortunately, as we even see now. I particularly held the same views as to the quote above.
We’ve certainly got a much bigger fire on our hands now that has spread much further – hence the need for more water from many more sources to put the conflagration out.
Regards, Sillyputty
Fatherlands/motherlands/homelands are Bolshevik naming conventions. It’s not surprising that it was suggested by one from Connecticut.
The suggestion probably came from the marketing department and not from leadership.
Say, David Frum perhaps…
@Sillyputty: My old friend. I’ve missed you :-D
Did you know that you shouldn’t use water on every kind of fire? Sometimes you use chemical foam… sometimes baking soda… and sometimes you let it burn like a forest fire – just to cleanse the earth and ignite new growth under the ash. Something to think about.
“Did you know that you shouldn’t use water on every kind of fire?”
@El B – Yes – and that this fire needs quenching is the desired end result, whatever the legal means needed to get there, which we either have, via the electoral process, or can craft, using legal methods already described elswhere.
Other legal methods of our getting the desired end result exist as well – so as you imply, all hands to the battle stations on this one.
Your metaphors, editorial faux pas’ (which we all share) and analogous commentary is most welome. Be well; and be notorious as always…:)
Oh my Silly friend … you do make me smile with your idealism and dreams of voting. Legal/Schmegal. Fight fire with fire I say. Then we can get our votes back where they belong.
What? No profound quote? Man – it’s your trademark. What happened to my Sillyputty? You be well, too. And I think we both belong in the notoriety club … even if it’s just in our own little TI world! ;-)
snip
As Silly says, your article is well stated and the date is 2005. You saw it then and you see it now.
Well Done Sir
Cheers jimmy.
“Think every word still applies.”
It absolutely does and the article itself speaks to prescient abilities.
Thank you.
Prescient. I had to look that up. Thank you.
The commercial impulse here is not to be underestimated. The tech companies will forever fall all over themselves flogging new ways to identify, record, combine and report our personal information on all of us all of the time. This is spying on hi-test. A hundred times better (for the spooks) than the KGB or East Germany had in their primes. It’s unimaginable how much personal information about all of us the security agencies are to this day stowing away.
What PI about all of us the feds get now from a whole new slew of corporate snitches astounds. All granted immunity from legal actions concerning handing over their sacred customer data to the feds.
Then there are unchecked imperatives including better ways to ID, compile and compare us, such as biometrics. This is a creepy direction. It involves the right to privacy and freedom of movement, speech, association and religion, other human rights.
We have really creepy leadership right now. Time for the pendulum on this war on terror stuff to swing back the other way.
“Time for the pendulum on this war on terror stuff to swing back the other way.”
Well said Richard. I’ll second that motion.
This piece in Vanity Fair by the mundane (it doesn’t mean here what you think it does) astrologer Michael Lutin may take on more prescience for some readers now:
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2006/12/lutin200612
It was published eight years ago (W still had two years remaining in his term).
It has 2 pgs.; read them both.
Very prescient. There’s an article up right now on TG about why Wikileaks matters that gets to similar issues:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/19/hypocrisy-freedom-julian-assange-wikileaks#start-of-comments
This is not shocking. Look how the intent of the law is subverted everyday here in the good old U.S.A. The rest of the world views us so poorly that this will not make a dent unfortunately. Just more world politicians will be puffing themselves up and acting like they didn’t know what was going on. With so many Americans taking their little happy pill everyday and the kiddies sent off to indoctrination centers posing as schools I am even losing hope for a revolution. Our founding fathers are churning in their graves at what we have allowed this country to become. Our last hope I believe will be for our military to remember their oath and recognize the enemy is within.
It’s this simple. 20 years ago my first-class mail was sacrosanct. Nobody (the feds) opened it, period, even at the border. Nobody listened in on my phone calls either, w/o a warrant. My associations and conversations at personal, commercial, political or volunteer events were totally unrecorded. My dealings with my doctor and lawyer were totally private. My payments to banks, utilities, retailers, gambling sites, pornographers and worse private too.
Back then, we had a right to privacy – to be left alone. A right to move about freely, including borders. To associate with others freely, and exercise free speech. What’s wrong with criticizing the powers that be?
So other countries have intelligence agencies and spy as well!?
I commend TI for bringing this to light, context is always nice. I must ask the readers though: is this a shocking revelation for some of you? The comments section here could convince a novice that America was alone in its broad surveillance actions. Yet it seems we keep hearing more and more about other countries involved. It kind of makes one question the notion that the US is an out of control renegade.
I have to laugh at the title though: “How Secret Partners Expand NSA’s surveillance Dragnet.” It kind of reads like the NSA uses them as unwilling pawns instead of it being a mutual effort. Like these countries get nothing in return even though the author later acknowledges that they do.
@Nate – thank for the comments and analysis; always welcome.
Regarding this statement by you: “It kind of makes one question the notion that the US is an out of control renegade.”
Yes, yes it does – and yes, the US is.
Why? Because the US is fast becoming (and in many areas already has become) what is known as a hegemony,” which is an indirect form of government and of imperial dominance in which the hegemon (leader state, in this case the United States) rules geopolitically subordinate states by the implied means of power, the threat of force, rather than by direct military force.
This should worry everyone on the planet.
@Nate – thank for the comments and analysis; always welcome.
Regarding this statement by you: “It kind of makes one question the notion that the US is an out of control renegade.”
Yes, yes it does – and yes, the US is.
Why? Because the US is fast becoming (and in many areas already has become) what is known as a hegemony,” which is an indirect form of government and of imperial dominance in which the hegemon (leader state, in this case the United States) rules geopolitically subordinate states by the implied means of power, the threat of force, rather than by direct military force.
This should worry everyone on the planet.
This is more than context, Nate. Of course all countries spy, for commercial (indigenous) businesses more than any other reason.
Except the Americans and maybe all 5 Anglo eyes, who seem to be into global surveillance. Like of everyone, all the time.
Snowden told the Europeans this in his testimony:
NOFORN foreign intelligence. Kafka would’ve appreciated that.
“Keep On Spying on the Free World”…
Testing.
It ties neatly to the march toward world government, which wasn’t a joke when the Birchers warned that was the plan in the 50s, it wasn’t a joke in 1973 when David Rockefeller and Zbigniew Brzezinski formed the Trilateral Commission, and it’s not a joke now.
Globalism’s dark occultists who are attempting its gradual advancement anticipate that they’re gaining in this life by adding to the contributions of others toward its eventual realization.
I am sure it all goes much deeper than even the so far released Snowden documents reveal. You can tell just how deep by how poised national officials are on the subject(s). I hope Glenn has more up his sleeve! I want to see some metaphorical bombs dropped!
Thanks for all your hard work uncovering and exposing the truth to the world now and forever.
Surely it crumbles with this story. The countries implicated in selling out their citizens’ privacy to the NSA eat crow and stop. Many do, surely.
This is journalism.
I’m frankly extremely disappointed at the MSM’s response to the Snowden revelations. We are “witness” to a massive invasion of our privacy by the feds and their corporate snitches. What part of that did it miss?
Agree completely about the MSM being MIA. Presumably, they’re too busy dusting off the stories they wrote about Iraq in 2003, and getting ready to run them, verbatim, again. No need to even change the headlines, what with robust calls for “drones, bombs, and foot soldiers on the ground.” Perhaps we’ll even be treated to a second blast of “Shock and Fucking Awe” just so they don’t have to change the type (and hype).
Any self-respecting journalist who can’t be bothered should be ashamed of this glaring lapse. It would be akin to major journals totally ignoring Watergate as it was unfolding, though this is incomparably worse. There’s no excusing the MSM’s silence, and more people should be asking hard questions about where the hell they are.
ISIS” (mother of Horus) was concocted in part by the same kinds of suburban Chesapeake occultists who gave the world “shock and awe”–or Shekhinah (the feminine “divine whirlwind” or “divine presence”).
The millennial celebrations around the world 14 years ago were designed to recognize an Aeon of Horus.
“It is a Rising Sun!” -William Clinton
> “…about where the hell they are.”
Or who the hell they are.
Try authentic news media. You won’t find it in the places you sought it from.
@MM: MSM already got the memo from the WH. Recycle old paper … if it’s not birthing it’s Benghazi … today is the lead up to Iraq and Cheney + his cronies. You’ll see old bullshit resurrected … it’s the “SQUIRREL” stragegy. Keep looking up – and you’ll miss entirely what’s happening in the cesspool below. ;-)
uh, “stragegy”? … I’m not drunk, I swear. {AHEM!} strategy. There I said it! {raspberries} to the comment board!
The mainstream media has a simple strategy: ignore the story and it will go away.
Look up Operation Mockingbird. It never stopped and the media is controlled, hence the big push for “net neutrality” because they know alternative media is waking up the masses.
@mirageseekr: “… they know alternative media is waking up the masses.”
I think they still believe their in the driver’s seat. Hubris is delusional thinking. They’ll think this even as the flames are licking at their feet. Even as their pants are catching on fire. Sociopaths … they never admit it to themselves. They’ll never get it. Sucks for them ~
DAMMIT! they’re/there/their … don’t judge. I NEED AN EDIT BUTTON!!!!
Im having trouble with that all. I have had occasion to think in terms of my country’s elites, and some other country’s elites, but I’m increasingly inclined to think in terms of the global elites. I’ve had a bad, bad feeling for awhile that I am not included in that all anywhere.
Nice reporting, Ryan. There is much in these Snowden’s Docs, and much that those documents “suggest” that doesn’t seem to be there. I can’t help but wonder what else will be revealed in ten or 20 years when some obscure newly revelaed document slips a puzzle piece into place and the depth of the rot is revealed to be unfathomably lower than we currently imagine.
“Im having trouble with that all. Me too.
And like you, it’s become apparent that it’s a minority leading a majority via the use of a hegemony,” which is an indirect form of government and of imperial dominance in which the hegemon (leader state, in this case the United States) rules geopolitically subordinate states by the implied means of power, the threat of force, rather than by direct military force.
This should worry everyone on the planet.
Democracy and hegemony sorta’ rhyme – but the real distance between the two is vast.
“NSA’s efforts are focused on ensuring the protection of the national security of the United States, its citizens, and our allies through the pursuit of valid foreign intelligence targets only.”
The pursuit of “valid foreign intelligence targets” also includes American citizens, apparently. This great plan could also be known as “The Gestapo On Steroids”. Hopefully they don’t get another case of ‘roid rage. Thankfully, there’s nothing that we can do about it (sigh of relief). With their ever-expanding expenditures related to the military and technology, next thing you know we won’t even need to be arrested before we get the prime opportunity to be tortured and executed! Oh wait, that already happens. Or has happened. How would you know if it’s still happening thanks to their all-comforting embrace of 100% opaqueness. Another one of their best kept secrets, apparently even kept secret from Snowden.
Considering that everyone that uses the Internet instantly becomes a valid foreign intelligence target (traceroute, anyone?), what option is there left other than to sigh and drink some Victory Gin?
@George Ohwell … welcome to where we’re headed in the modern police state. You’re already a terrorist … secret charges, secret courts, secret judges, secret juries … not so secret verdict. Modern day N. Korea. Hello Fema Camps.
“Ohwell” … not exactly inspiring. Maybe think on that. That’s how sheeple think – and some of us don’t take this shit lying down! Thanks again to Ed Snowden, Glenn Greenwald, et al. Too many to name. But I have a list … I thank them every day – in my heart and head.
quote”The pursuit of “valid foreign intelligence targets” also includes American citizens, apparently. This great plan could also be known as “The Gestapo On Steroids”.unquote
Don’t laugh. You don’t know the truth…yet.
Parts 1 to 3:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjM2o1Nm9YTk5ibTQ/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 1 to 10):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjMWVNQnVwd2tEbzA/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 11 to 20):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjMGNXcWlzNGNJcFU/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 21 to 30):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjb3hfVVFWeGd4ajA/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix I (Page 31 to 40):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjUnE1VWpMZ2JrV0U/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix II:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjQ1ZBUldTa0dxcVU/edit?usp=sharing
Appendix III:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6BI_OoKPhKjZ2EtQVlReXFKRjA/edit?usp=sharing
So the government of each country can claim it protects its citizens and screws the others. How long can this be tolerated?
How long? Emily Dickinson’s lines come to mind:
This is the concluding stanza to “Because I Could Not Stop For Death. All signs suggest our toleration for totalitarian bullshit is akin to that surreal carriage ride; we keep moving through the same space and get no closer to anything.
With all of the same headlines about Iraq being rerun from 2003, and the slow hemorrhage of stories that simply reveal there’s no bottom to this NSA cesspool, it’s increasingly hard to feel hopeful about anything on the geopolitical stage; I think it’s why so many are truly tuning out. What good is news if no one acts on it? It seems to be washing over everyone with nothing taking hold. Is there ANY revelation big enough to awaken the general public? It’s hard to imagine how bad and big it would have to be.
@MM … “cesspool” is a perfect metaphor. While they work from the bottom up – it’s up to us to work together from the top down.
This isn’t tolerated by much of anyone to be honest. Except for the elite, their lobbyists, and their crony politicians. Their attitude towards scum like us is the familiar, winning GWB strategy: “you’re either with us or against us.”
“So the government of each country can claim it protects its citizens and screws the others. How long can this be tolerated?”
Too long already – it seems that the US is fast becoming (and in many areas already has become) a de facto hegemony, which is an indirect form of government and of imperial dominance in which the hegemon (leader state, in this case the United States) rules geopolitically subordinate states by the implied means of power, the threat of force, rather than by direct military force.
Seems like data rape by implied consent by the elected leaders (a minority) upon those who placed them in power: the majority electorate.
Time to take their toys away.
” How long can this be tolerated?””
It seems to have been tolerated since the first imposition of the concept of the state 5000 years or so ago.