Nabila ur Rehman, 9, was injured by a U.S. drone strike in Pakistan. (Jim Watson/Getty Images)
In the fall of 2013, Rafiq ur Rehman, a school teacher from the remote tribal region of North Waziristan, in Pakistan, stood with his 12-year-old son, Zubair, and 9-year-old daughter, Nabila, in Washington, D.C., preparing to challenge one of the U.S. government’s most secretive means of killing.
The Rehmans say a missile fired from a U.S. drone killed 68-year-old Momina Bibi — Rehman’s mother, and grandmother to the two young children — in an October 2012 airstrike. Both Zubair and Nabila were present when the attack happened and suffered injuries. The missile had struck their grandmother straight on, obliterating her completely. There were no others killed in the attack and no substantiated reports of terrorists at the scene.
According to the family’s account, Bibi was killed tending okra while her grandkids played nearby.
The family came to the U.S. to demand answers. They were treated as honored guests among the human rights community in New York City, but when they met with lawmakers on October 20, 2013, a total of five members of Congress showed up.
For Pakistani attorney Shahzad Akbar, who represents 150 victims of the strikes, including the Rehman family, President Barack Obama’s recent apology for the killing of two Americans merely underscores the double standard that exists for civilian death.
“Today, if Nabila or Zubair or many of the civilian victims — if they are watching on TV the president being so remorseful over the killing of a Westerner, what message is that taking?” Akbar said Thursday in an interview with The Intercept.
The answer, he argued, is “that you do not matter, you are children of a lesser God, and I’m only going to mourn if a Westerner is killed.”
The absence of transparency, despite the Rehman family’s tremendous efforts, has been a defining feature of the Obama administration’s drone program. Typically, no amount of evidence gathered by journalists, human rights investigators or researchers indicating the death of a civilian from a drone strike will elicit an on-the-record response from the U.S. government — let alone an admission of responsibility — or prompt an independent investigation.
That was not the case on Thursday morning when President Barack Obama delivered a press conference describing a strike gone wrong. In the unprecedented address, Obama detailed how a failure in intelligence-gathering had left two civilians dead. Numerous anonymous U.S. officials said the attack occurred in Pakistan and that the CIA was responsible, though Obama and his press secretary, Josh Earnest, refused to explicitly confirm either. Unlike past cases, the unintended victims killed in the attacks were Westerners, one an Italian, the other a U.S. citizen.
The American, 74-year-old Warren Weinstein, had spent 40 years working around the world. For the last decade he had lived in Pakistan, where he served as country director for a consulting firm working with the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID). The second victim, Giovanni Lo Porto, was an Italian national. The 39-year-old had come to Pakistan four years ago, when severe floods ravaged the country. Both men ultimately found themselves hostages of al Qaeda — Weinstein was taken in 2011, Lo Porto in 2012. They had been held in a compound in Pakistan’s Shawal Valley, The New York Times reported Thursday night.
“We believed that this was an Al Qaeda compound, that no civilians were present and that capturing these terrorists was not possible,” Obama said of the January 15 strike. “And we do believe that the operation did take out dangerous members of Al Qaeda. What we did not know, tragically, is that Al Qaeda was hiding the presence of Warren and Giovanni in this same compound.”
The compound had been placed under “hundreds of hours of surveillance,” Obama said. U.S. intelligence officials chose to take the shot only after achieving “near certainty” that the building was a legitimate terrorist target and civilian lives would not be risked, Earnest added. When the dust settled, American spies watched as more bodies were pulled from the rubble than expected. It would take weeks, however, for the intelligence community to confirm that the dead included Weinstein and Lo Porto. Ahmed Farouq, an American and alleged al Qaeda leader, also died in the attack. A separate U.S. airstrike in the region on January 19 was also described in detail on Thursday. U.S. intelligence officials said they believed that attack killed Adam Gadahn, a U.S. citizen and al Qaeda propagandist. Again, the Americans said they did not know he was inside when they fired.
Neither of the two strikes targeted specific individuals, U.S. officials said. The attacks were signature strikes, a much-criticized tactic in which the CIA kills people without knowing their identities, instead relying on behavioral observations. In both of the January strikes, the U.S. only learned whom it had killed after the fact.
Earnest told reporters that neither Farouq nor Gadahn were considered high-value targets, meaning they were not eligible for the type of assassination of U.S. citizens the Obama administration has deemed legal in recent years, which requires additional layers of approval. “The president did not specifically sign off on these two operations,” Earnest said.
Earnest said an inspector general was conducting an independent review of the operation.
President Obama said the operation that killed the two Westerners would be declassified and disclosed publicly, “because the Weinstein and Lo Porto families deserve to know the truth.”
“One of the things that sets America apart from many other nations, one of the things that makes us exceptional is our willingness to confront squarely our imperfections and to learn from our mistakes,” Obama explained. “Already, I have directed a full review of what happened. We will identify the lessons that can be learned from this tragedy, and any changes that should be made.”
When asked by The Intercept if the president’s words meant there would be a policy change in how the U.S. deals with claims of civilian casualties resulting from counterterrorism operations, an administration official declined to comment.
Whether anyone from the CIA has been or will be held accountable for the strikes remains unclear. Writing for The New Yorker, Steve Coll raised the question of whether the March removal of the powerful head of the CIA’s Counterterrorism Center may have been linked to the attacks. For nearly a decade, a man named Mike — who uses the CIA cover name Roger — has overseen the agency’s drone program in Pakistan. Known for his apparently dark persona and chain-smoking, the counterterrorism chief is considered a principal architect of signature strikes, which in 2010 brought the number of U.S. kills in Pakistan to its highest-ever recorded total of 117.
“I predict that even this episode will have no effect,” Micah Zenko, a fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and an expert in U.S. counterterrorism operations, told The New York Times.
Though he did not identify the agency, the aircraft or the country, Obama, in his remarks Thursday, came as close as he ever has to directly and candidly addressing civilian casualties in the CIA’s drone war in Pakistan in public.
“As president and as commander-in-chief, I take full responsibility for all our counterterrorism operations, including the one that inadvertently took the lives of Warren and Giovanni,” Obama said. “I profoundly regret what happened. On behalf of the United States government, I offer our deepest apologies to the families.”
Weinstein’s family released a statement Thursday placing the ultimate responsibility for his death on the men who took him captive, but the family characterized elements of the U.S. government’s response — aside from that of lawmakers and the FBI — as “inconsistent and disappointing over the course of three and a half years.”
Following Lo Porto’s kidnapping, a petition calling on the Italian government to ensure that “all possible efforts” were made in securing his release amassed nearly 48,000 signatures. On Thursday, the Italian news agency ANSA reported that the Lo Porto family was grief-stricken by the news of Giovanni’s death. “Leave me with my pain,” his mother said. “I do not have much to add,” his brother told reporters. “Obama has apologized? Thanks.”
The January attacks brought the total number of Americans killed by a drone strike under Obama to at least eight. Of that total, the U.S. has intentionally killed one.
Mustafa Qadri, an investigator with Amnesty International, has spent years conducting investigations in Pakistan, including into the strike that killed Momina Bibi. Speaking to The Intercept on Thursday, the human rights investigator said he was pained by the death of Weinstein, but noted that there are scores of other innocent people who have been killed in drone strikes.
“Obama’s statement is really moving,” Qadri said. “And we welcome that, I welcome the fact he has done that.” But, he added, “there are hundreds, potentially thousands of others who deserve the same apology.”
———
Photo: Jim Watson/Getty Images
Why do we feel there is a need to apologize for any one killed during war? Do any countries that condone terrorism apologize when we are attacked? Our countrymen are kidnapped and beheaded…do they apologize? Absolutely not. Why do these countries still exist? Why do I need to know what my government is doing to keep me and my family safe? I don’t. Just do it. We are a sad nation. Nothing like the proud nation that stood up for ourselves and made super powers shake as in yesteryears. Hell, we can’t even get along among ourselves. Americans……get off your spoiled fat asses and kick some ass! Get back our backbones! Guantanamo Bay……find out what we need to know and act on it! Don’t ask my permission just do it.
“Your” government is not keeping you or hundreds of millions of Americans safe. Also, it’s not “your” government.
The US government has long promoted and fueled terrorism.
See:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/sep/20/afghanistan.weekend7
Fools be like “but why isn’t Obama like Daenerys when the burnt remains of the child, killed by a dragon, are brought before her, and she gets a catch in the throat and has to lock up the dragons in the catacombs…”
https://youtube.com/watch?v=h6P04FEOSpM
Because this is Obama:
youtube.com/watch?v=WWKG6ZmgAX4
““One of the things that sets America apart from many other nations, one of the things that makes us exceptional is our willingness to confront squarely our imperfections and to learn from our mistakes,” Obama explained.”
This is a joke, right? From the Correspondent’s Dinner, maybe?
Who cares if the murdering psycho apologizes? He should be exectuted at once.
“at once”, huh? No trial or anything? No exposure of the crimes of the class and interests served by Obama and other US officials and propagandists? No enlightenment of the American public which for decades has been kept in the dark and misinformed about what the US government is doing? No popular education, no reversal of the Nazification of American society, and thus no building of power or clarity, and thus the continuation of the American public’s failure to be responsible and serious about our obligations. That US officials have committed the most horrible offenses on a grand scale and that they have forfeited their membership to humanity is not in question. But the public doesn’t know, really, and instead is fed distractions and lies and is kept de-mobilized and pacified and remains susceptible to propaganda. If you take politics seriously, and if you have some understanding of the intellectual and emotional processes exploited by the ruling class, such as the dissemination of very effective propaganda, to suppress the revolt and resistance of the masses, then you’ll see why calling for the summary execution is both irresponsible and unhelpful.
There have been EIGHT civilian citizen drone deaths so far. The PRESIDENT is trying to appease his image – not to do down as a murderer by from president– —
Constitutional Scholar?????
“…not to do down as a murderer by from president.”
This is an English language site. Please try again. If you mean 8 Americans have been assassinated, yes, they have. Thousands of other non-Americans, too.
I have a tough enough time making it thru Craig Summers’ posts (which resemble watching someone try to park their car for the first time), without you talking like Yoda on acid.
Thanks for music.. ‘Unique’ Cindy
I’m a fan #AskMona
(posted here as GG thread is choked up I think.. calling base station bzzzzt™ sputter™ and all that Jazz)
Aunt Sally X
Thanks for keeping idealism alive, pulsing, impossible to ignore. Sadly, much of the current paradigm is dismissive of constructive passion.
Back at you… Only for Cindy and anyone feeling ‘Unique’ out there..
P E A C E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lFxGBB4UGU
Shake,*Rattle, & Role….
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=billy+stewart
A Brrrr Uck Chuck A-Chuck Chuck Production
*ht `o-mazine
“Role” – Roll!!
Fuk`dit (ht`mellow)
The // Intercept – Stan’s weathered scrotum for a ‘preview’, obrigado..
Cindy, Silly it is. Not the right verb “appease” in this context. Acid may be trip with him, but no mention yet of with diamonds, Lucy in sky.
In which we learn of Lethal Autonomous Weapons (LAWs), fully-autonomous armed drones and ground vehicles, the next generation of unmanned combat vehicles.
http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Rise-of-robotic-killing-machines-has-a-cautious-6219854.php
Because a robot or AI doesn’t need to apologize, you see.
Worthwhile:
Obama’s drone warfare: Assassination made routine
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/04/25/pers-a25.html
Now that it’s blindingly clear, the United States government has devolved into regime that tortured hundreds of human beings at secret “black sites” around the planet, to the point of murder, performed torture experiments on human beings who have been detained for over a decade in a secret CIA dungeon in Guantanamo known as “Penny Lane”, even though they have been deemed innocent and slated for release, overthrows sovereign governments, starts wars based on lies, provides billions of dollars in cash and arms support to terrorists, rebel groups and government regimes who still behead human beings as punishment for alleged crimes, has illegally initiated a global surveillance state of such power that would astound even Orwell, who’s President presides over a star chamber group who weekly decides the fate of various human beings, including American citizens, by virtue of some vague criteria, are then placed on a “murder list”, to which they are then assassinated via Drone delivered missiles in a blast of flesh burning Hellfire, notwithstanding vaporizing hundreds if not thousands of innocent men, women and children who are deemed just “collateral damage”….I now believe this nation, whose flag I pledged allegiance to for 12 stinking years, has now become the United States of Depravity. Shame on us. Our great great grandchildren will spit on our graves.
When will Pakistan apologize for the mass murder of Hindus, Christians, Atheists, Buddhists, and Sikhs? Drone strikes killed 3000 people in Pakistan since 2001, while since 1947 more than 15 million hindus died because of the Muslim population and the regime.
Why not ask that question of the Pakistanis?
Here we are discussing the most powerful man in the world and his war criminal behaviour.
LOL where are you even getting your statistics from? wikepedia and rightwingasshole.org dont count. If you really wanna play that card why dont you ask the oh so democratic Indian Governement about the human rights violations they have done against muslims and sikhs over the years.
“What did I do?”
-American, circa 2015
Stan..
What is the name of the ‘utopia’ where thoust resides in?
Utopia? Never been there. But I have spent time in your region: Tortureland — probably longer than thoust.
Relic..
So where is thoust visiting from? Or does thoust want to keep chastising “Americans” from a cowardly ‘soapbox’ of obscurity?
What the fuck does where I am from or where I am have to do with anything, young person? You read like a redneck Texan… “Yer not from around here, are you.” Actually, I was from around there.
You label me a coward, after one of your Stasi stalkers says “you have a lot of balls coming here”, and years after blood relations tell me how they will kill me. Which is it? Make up your mind.
But I will reply. I chastised you from Texas, UK, California, and Brazil. In return, you fucks stalk and torture me. If you want to know my itinerary I am sure you can pick up a copy from one of your Stasi rodents. Just apply for one of those patriotic surveillance role player gigs.
Dong!
Snake Rant (Episode 5) – Texas man talks about Obamacare and job creation with deadly rattlesnakes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csy78QFQ5Dk
Are you John Bolton, or just a friend? He has the same tick — a person’s worth and opinion is based on her location, then degree of bloodlust.
a person’s worth and opinion is based on her location, then degree of bloodlust… – Stan
I see you’ve experienced CraigSummers, as well. With him, location = what pigeonhole he places you in. As far as bloodlust: For CraigSummers it’s torture first; drone-execution of convicted Americans second (with the requisite amount of terror instilled on the ‘subject’ preceding the latter’s drone-death, of course).
@chlor,
It is sad. Unemployed / underemployed middle and working class conservatives in Texas do suffer like anyone else, but their ideology is self-defeating. And when they go on with the killin’ thangs talk one has to make a decision, accomodate them or snarl back.
@sillyputty,
And I used to accuse you of being one more Stasi sock puppet…. (I say that feeling rather foolish and naive — I only trust my real family in Brazil now. Oops. I tipped off suave.)
Dude..
Bummer. I was going for the spicoli, Californian. (.. “huh, nice jacket, Stu”)
Not I, Bud. (.. that’s *Captain Proton, and his ‘photonic weaponry’)
Your file classifies you w/ a ‘Frozen-turd on the summit of Mt. Kilimanjaro’, status. (.. #weaksauce)
A My Zingers Been Zapped Production
* http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Paris_Proton.jpg
Your comment seems to indicate you believe Americans do not torture Americans. You invoked that tin foil hat schtick too. More Stasi BS. They can do quite a bit with low tech utensils found in any barber shop or medical lab, and a cheap rent-a-patriot.
You are full of shit, American. Enjoy the bright future ahead of you.
No, it doesn’t. This is *documented fact. What I’m questioning is bloviated hearsay coming from an anonymous dipshit, who is currently sunning their weathered ballsack on some beach in Brazil..
Specifically, you.
* http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Plea-Deal-Torture-Death–Gabriel-Fernandez-280120652.html
Articles like these are exactly why I like this site!
How about coming clean to the fact that it is illegal under international law to use drones strikes beyond the battle field; the battle field as defined by international law to which the US is (was?) party.
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/24/should-a-court-approve-all-drone-strikes/drones-are-illegal-beyond-the-battlefield
What does “international law” mean?
Let me see, “international” should etymologically mean there are such thing as “nations” (plural should be it, right?) out there other than US and there are some sort of relationships among them? Hmm! What could that possibly mean? Have they found life forms in Jupiter’s moon Europe?
… “international law” … “Law” as in “lawyers”, right? As in the joke of the two lawyers who walk into a restaurant to eat their own sandwich? Relating to “constitutionally” becoming a police state and how eavesdropping on pretty much everyone on planet Earth, to the point of making of privacy a silly illusion, is “legal”? “legal” as we invade countries after UN approval based on WMD stories?
You may, with little effort indeed, realize we own that thing you call “international law” (whatever you meant). In fact, if I understand you right, if there be what I think you mean by it, Nabila Rehman’s pulverised grandmother and many, many more “targets” wouldn’t have been checked off of our lists and the data in our beloved signature strikes algorithms hadn’t been updated. How is it you call it again? Was it “murdering civilians”? Well, whatever you cal it, if there was that “international law” thing we would not be having this conversation either.
Also, you have clarified the issue yourself, as you put it, it all boils down to just an adverb “beyond” and we are out there fighting “the evil force” (TM) in the Universe, so respect! You should actually be thankful to us for doing the Universe the favor of fighting for freedom. Physically speaking there is nothing beyond Universe, so, once again, I can’t grasp what you are trying to say. Are you OK?
As our glorious “Yes we can”, “Let’s look forward not backward” honorable noble prize President has clarified to be fair, he will drone strike whomever he decides regardless of their jurisdiction, whereabouts or age and, as usual, he has honored his principles:
// __ Obama officials refuse to say if assassination power extends to US soil
~
theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/22/obama-brennan-paul-assassinations-filibuster
~
Heck! We don’t really know whom we are targeting! Our statistical analysis patterns, patriotically indeed!, take care of that for us! They are so patriotically responsible that they, with the help of their f#ck the EU lesser grade slave robots in our fiefdoms, decided not to drone attack Snowden while he spent a long time at the Sheremetyevo airport in Moscow (perhaps after figuring out the “collateral damage” would have been a lot of a heck greater they’d wish?) and would instead reroute a presidential plane and even endanger the life of a head of state after, Portugal, Spain and France denied the use of their air space and the Austrian and Spanish governments repeatedly searched that plane … and by the way that presidential plane was not “pro-Russia” Vladimir Putin’s, nor did they downed and searched his plane when he flew directly to Latin America …
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident
Those statistical analysis algorithms are so smart!!! So much like us!!!
USG
honorable Peace Noble Prize at that
USG
At the very end Laura Poitras’s “Citizenfour”, Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowden are talking about a new leak regarding the Ramstein base and it’s crucial role in drone strikes. There’s a quick shot of a handwritten memo that shows the number 1.2 million. We see the notationn and understand this is how many names are on the “kill list.”
1.2 million.
International Law. Now there’s an interesting concept.
Despite the fact that scholars will argue that the concept goes back to 2100BC (the setting of boundaries between states), modern evolution begins with the League of Nations (that lasted about 25 years then popped ’cause some states broke the rules). Many posit the Nuremberg trials as the linchpin of modern international law. Remember them? The crime (which was invented then retrospectively applied to the losers of WWII) was “Waging Aggressive War”. Despite the fact that France and Britain initiated that affair by declaring war on Germany, the Germans in the dock were mostly hanged.
“Waging Aggressive War.” Hmmmmmn. There is not much of the planet left upon which the U.S. has not waged aggressive War.
International Law is what the prevailing military power (of the moment) says it is. For now that is the U.S. – until the economic and social capital is expended and that particular Empire inevitably dissolves just as all previous empires have.
Personally I have few tears for the denouement of the U.S. That its capitalist ideology has been perverted to the extent that it now depends on War to support itself indicates it is long past retirement. The great pity is that is seems likely to take the rest of the (more rational) Western leaning democracies with it.
“…… nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. ”
– Washington’s Farewell Address 1796
Before we blame Obama for everything bad under the sun, we should remember that every US president has promoted the latest “precision” weapons available during the period of their administration.
Fuk` obama, and anyone who defends his transgressions based on the prior malfeasance of other presidents..
And every single one of those presidents was elected.
“Drones kill fewer civilians, as a percentage of total fatalities, than any other military weapon. They’re the worst form of warfare in the history of the world, except for all the others.
“Jet planes. Machine guns. Bombing. Drones aren’t the problem. Bombs are the problem.”
~In Defense of Drones: Slate.com
(Hope the link works on this 3rd grade platform.)
It is precisely the allegedly great precision of drone bombs that more easily “allows” their defenders to bomb the shit out of people. That is, they bomb and kill where doing so with previous types of bombs would entail more difficult PR.
Except that unlike in previous eras, the Internet and global communications now allows us to hear from the victims and immediately see the carnage and death, which is recorded for dissemination among and by the masses.
I guess it comes down to whether one believes we should be locating and killing members of Al Qaeda.
– If one does, then aren’t precision drone strikes the best option — because fewer civilians die than would otherwise?
– But if one doesn’t, why draw a distinction at all? Killing those we target would seem no less immoral than killing women and children.
What am I missing?
A conscience.
texas: “A conscience?” “What is that exactly?” …
I do all I possibly can to make sure those kinds of morally deafferented morons notice they are including way more people in their “we” than they safely could
RCL
quote”What am I missing”unquote
quote”A conscience.”unquote
Indeed. Chromosomally aberrant pond scum have no conscience.
Actually, what it comes down to is whether one endorses sending nearly omnipresent death robots into the skies above rural areas to terrorize the population with their mere presence and sound, and the occasional deployment to blow up lots of these same people.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/02/drones_war_and_civilian_casualties_how_unmanned_aircraft_reduce_collateral.html
2nd Rate Texas, see:
No worries, Flapjack.. The honorable Peter Maass has already informed the ‘class’ (.. four months ago) that the rectification of said ‘disabled’ commentating system, was “.. a PRIORITY item for us to change”. ~ Sauve
No link in other words.
Grade 2 listed
`o-mazine..
Me thinks that you’re disregarding the ineptitude of the ‘Flapjack’ in question.
Killing citizens of foreign countries is always politically popular. The drone program, for example, has a high approval rating in the US. Since politicians crave popularity, what limits the number of drone killings?
The answer is that most countries have governments whose role, among other things, is to protect their own citizens. They therefore threaten to hold foreigners accountable for killing their citizens. The Pakistani government on the other hand, seems to feel its tribal areas are dangerous, and doesn’t particularly like the idea of policing them itself. So behind the scenes it encourages the US drone program, accepts vast sums of foreign aid in return, and publicly expresses some vague concerns for the consumption of its own public.
I don’t know if Pakistanis are taken in by this, but the onus is really on them to control their own government. It would be similar to a situation where Americans watched passively while foreign governments spent large amounts lobbying their politicians to act against the the interests of the American public. Obviously, if this happened, Americans would rise up in force and sweep their venal, conniving and corrupt leaders out of office. So the apathy of the Pakistanis is mystifying.
In the U.S. right? Yet, it has always backfired not only in the particular targeted tribal group even if the Pakistani gov is “using (and misusing) the U.S. as their own police” for their own purposes
That also brings political instability and social resentment which can go in directions the USG has no way of predicting, controlling, nor drone attacking
… after more than two thumb generations of kids playing those themes in computer games and as a natural consequence of the ever abusive “spreading democracy”, “exceptional” mentality of gringos
If and to the extent it may be true I wonder what is the not that implicit rationalization behind that argument
The USG has not moral or factual business serving as their police. Doesn’t the USG hate “ragheads” and such? Why is it it wants to do their own policing?
They don’t need to spend large amounts lobbying US politicians they just entice corporations to move jobs to more favorable conditions. All those corporations have to do in turn is a throw a taco party …
You see “we” don’t seem to be that “tribally” different after all
Satyagraha,
RCL
“It would be similar to a situation where Americans watched passively while foreign governments spent large amounts lobbying their politicians to act against the the interests of the American public. Obviously, if this happened, Americans would rise up in force and sweep their venal, conniving and corrupt leaders out of office. ” LOL!
As if foreign governments weren’t spending “…large amounts lobbying their politicians to act against the interests of the American public.” As if, corporations weren’t doing exactly that. As if TPP and TTIP were all about doing exactly that. As if you didn’t already know that.
Its mind boggling how evil this country has become under Obama. Glen Ford was right, Obama is the more effective evil. If a republican were doing what Obama is doing there would at least be a semblance of protest form the pseudo lefts in the democratic party. Obama has completely sold out, but since the psudo left won;t criticize the first black president, Obama can literally get away with murder, MASS murder even.
that is terrible.Lost of life is a tragedy that even apology can not makes it up,look at Turkey that slaughtered 1.5 M Armenians and even up to this point moment they are denying it. And worst is when 11,000,000 Muslims were slaughtered by Muslims world never heard any apology from anyone.(https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/09/24/staggering-statistics-on-muslims-killing-muslims-2/)
Isn’t that at least TWO American citizens who were intentionally murdered by drones, that “al CIAduh(!)” leader who’s name I can’t recall right now, and later his teenage son? The killing of the son, who hadn’t heard (yet?) that his father was murdered by the U.S. government, and who had gone to look for his father who he hadn’t seen in several years, was intentional, too.
see:
https://www.google.com/search?q=greenwald+awlaki+site%3Asalon.com
Thank you, “Vivek”, for the corroboration of my comment.
The racism that fuels the ‘war on terror’
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/mar/25/racism-war-on-terror-awlaki
Excellent past Glenn Greenwald article from the Guardian.
It does mystify me why this is being held up as an example of a drone strike gone wrong, when it sounds like a drone strike done right. I mean, the attack was on an installation of a hostile force sworn to violent conflict with the U.S. and allied countries, it successfully hit its target, and it killed al-Qaida members present. If war is ever right, this would be an example of it. Does it really make sense for us to have a public policy that declares that al-Qaida can drone-proof any facility just by grabbing a couple of American civilians to chain up in the basement? I have no doubt that you can pull out dozens, even hundreds of drone attacks that deserve “apology” and a whole lot more, attacks on the wrong people with little if any real evidence, but not this one.
Though the hostages and their families deserve sympathy, it is tempered by the report ( http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/24/politics/warren-weinstein-congress-hostage-release/ ) that Weinstein’s family paid ransom to the group. Though that money did not lead to the man’s release, it certainly might be expected to increase the profit motive for future kidnappings and provide support for further attacks on innocent people.
It’s an odd definition of “war’ when the ‘other side’ can’t fight back.
You accept the establishment’s determination that these are ‘bad guys’ and they should be assassinated, along with all those around them.
Assassinated from the safety of the skies, no less!
This is war?
What exactly is ‘war’ about it? It seems like killing people arbitrarily from a safe place in the sky to me. Oh, the battle!
“the attack was on an installation of a hostile force sworn to violent conflict with the U.S. and allied countries”
According to who?
“Apologize” did you say? What could you possibly mean by that?
most probably confused about when the next taco day was (should be clarified)
Did you just call those, “people”? What exactly did you mean with “identities”?
I thought they are just targets of our statistical patterns? Isn’t that enough?
What are those TI nuts talking about now? Look, they clearly matched our patterns!
There goes Mr. “Yes we can”, “Let’s look forward not backward” …
What?! Don’t they have “patterns” of their own actions?
USG
`rcl..
Depends worthy.
Kudos.
!!!!! First,
I am NOT saying anything which follows is anything beyond a possibility.
USAID is known to sometimes try to force other countries to submit to control by the USA.
The fact that Weinstein was a USAID “contractor” could mean that he was a CIA agent.
His death may have been deliberate.
We the people
are not allowed to know the truth.
Weinstein, 40 years on the road, was unquestionably CIA.
I did not know Weinstein.
All I know is that Obama has shown an enormous proclivity for lying and
if Obama has to make a statement about regrets and accidental killings
it is just as likely that he is trying to use the deaths
as another cover-up for the opposite of what he is saying.
To take ANYTHING at face value from Obama (and the Washington corporate “government”)
is like asking for abuse.
“unquestionably”? such confidence and certitude is based on what?
President Obama has an inability to admit that some of his policies are ass-backwards and that he has made mistakes and continues to make the same mistakes. He needs to reread the constitution and abandon programs that are unconstitutional.
President Obama has secrets he cannot risk being revealed.
Mr. Devereaux
“……Mustafa Qadri, an investigator with Amnesty International, has spent years conducting investigations in Pakistan, including into the strike that killed Momina Bibi. Speaking to The Intercept on Thursday, the human rights investigator said he was pained by the death of Weinstein, but noted that there are scores of other innocent people who have been killed in drone strikes……”
US drone strikes kill innocent people. No sane person can deny that. Drones operate in Taliban “safe havens” provided by the Pakistan government in Pakistan. Pakistan has supported the Afghanistan Taliban since the mid 1990s for geopolitical reasons. The Taliban provided some stability in Afghanistan (and a friendly government) and the Pakistan government was able to operate terrorist training camps for their war against India. Bin Laden operated in those camps which is the primary reason for the US invasion.
After the US invaded, the Pakistan government continued to support the Taliban only they provided a safe haven for the Taliban to plan and train for their spring offensives. The Taliban operated at the behest of the ISI who fund and work with the Taliban. Today, the (Afghanistan) Taliban account for 75% of the civilian casualties in Afghanistan usually from the indiscriminate killing IEDs. The Pakistan government has made a war zone in Pakistan which is why the drones operate where they do. The civilian deaths in Pakistan are directly attributed to the role the Pakistan government has in supporting the Taliban for geopolitical reasons (ultimately, it’s about India). The complexities of the war in Pakistan are difficult to grasp, but the Intercept makes no attempt to sort this out. It’s quite simply the fault of the US. However, it’s the Pakistan government which needs to apologize for the tens of thousands of people killed in Afghanistan (because of their support for the brutal Taliban) and because the Pakistan government is responsible for bringing the war to Pakistan where civilians are killed by US drones.
Drones operating in Pakistan save American (NATO) and Afghanistan lives.
Hi Craig,
Thanks for the comment. You might be surprised, but I actually agree with much of what you’re saying here. The complexities in Pakistan are immense. This piece was intended to respond to an event in the news, highlighting how the administration’s response to these specific strikes were markedly different than anything we’ve seen before.
You’re point is well-taken though. These things are not simple and I don’t mean to convey them as such. The Rehman family, along with hundreds of thousands of others, has been displaced by the military campaign in FATA, which has killed far more people than the drone program. Mustafa Qadri, whose quote you highlighted, regularly describes how drone-related conversations can obfuscate the complex situation in Pakistan, which includes all of the various actors you mentioned. Unfortunately, there’s only so much you can cram into a single story about a particular news event. A lot gets left on the cutting room floor.
I hope you’ll keep reading though.
Ryan
Ryan, taking Craig Summers seriously, well, it’s up to you, but here’s some information: Craig affirmatively and without shame endorses torture — and he uses the word. He is also a hardcore right-wing Zionist and authoritarian who does not support the 4th amendment (he refuses to say what, if anything, is good about it, and supports the NSA).
Craig has infested Greenwald’s comments since Glenn’s Guardian days and Glenn ignores him. Many commenters also ignore him, altho I and others do ridicule his depraved positions.
He has, by the way, gone on extended rants about you specifically, as he believes you “lied” about Darren Wilson. In Craig’s view, you convicted this fine officer without a trial, and Wilson was acquitted by a grand jury. He awaits your correcting your “lies.”
Just FYI.
Glenn doesn’t always ignore him. I distinctly remember Glenn finding Craig Summers highly amusing, which was contagious.
Mr. Devereaux using Craig’s informed (but sadly – in my opinion – warped) perspective to bounce off shows a stunning tolerance of establishment positions that may lead to real dialog where usually there is none. I don’t doubt that Ryan knows of Craig’s insinuations, yet the framework of stepping out of mere echo-chambers of anti-establishmentarianism is impressive, not least because Craig even with all his opinionated jargon keeps coming back for the stimulation and seems genuinely up for the exhilarating rumble.
Early on at the Graun, yes. But that ended soon enough, and he’s ignored him at TI.
The sick creature explicitly and cheerfully advocates for TORTURE. What the sick fuck finds stimulating or exhilarating is hardly any kind of legitimate balance to THAT.
I only caught the tail-end of Glenn’s stint at the Guardian. I find the Guardian disgusting, to be honest, but Greenwald fascinates me because of his moral assertiveness.
About the ‘highly amusing': I was thinking of the recent claim here on The Intercept of Craig’s that Glenn boldly supported Russia’s actions in the Ukraine, which Glenn found (predictably) very funny.
I don’t find Craig ‘sick,’ myself, but I’m not always correct in my assessments (though I have a good track record). He supports the Western establishment conglomerate (a multinational and corrupt effort, in my view) because he genuinely believes in its moral rightness. If he was sick mentally he would find more satisfaction in their violent, incompetent behavior than he does, in my opinion.
His support of torture is offensive to anyone with as deep a heart as you (and I) have, but it is unfortunately quite average for Americans.
Oh yes, you are right about that. Glenn didn’t engage him, just expressed great amusement at that particular Craigism. But it is an example of deviating from his practice of ignoring teh Craig.
Well, I also endorse enhanced interrogation. If we applied some of those methods on the seven police suspects in Baltimore the Mystery of Freddie Gray would be solved in one hour.
“One thing you, Nate and I have in common…” ~ CS
Gold
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-FwKDLfd18
Enhanced Torture?
“…….Craig affirmatively and without shame endorses torture — and he uses the word. He is also a hardcore right-wing Zionist and authoritarian who does not support the 4th amendment (he refuses to say what, if anything, is good about it, and supports the NSA)…..”
Good Lord Mona, you could have summed it up by just calling me a “vile” human being again.
There is some truth to what you say Mona, but I do support the fourth amendment. I just never answered your silly questions about the fourth. That’s all. I do support the NSA and bulk collection of metadata, Jewish self determination, limited torture (like marriage) and lobbying as free speech (yes, even AIPAC). And I did disagree strongly with Ryan’s first article on the Ferguson shooting. In a nutshell.
Thanks Mona.
Why?
[Now everyone watch: He won’t give a responsive answer, because to do so would entail employing language that undermines his authoritarian views.]
Hurting Flies!
Release your Death Grip Mona!
He’s Going Purple again….
#BDS #AskMona (Just as you do)
“……Who knows what Greenwald (or abdulrahman) doesn’t report for political reasons. Bill Keller of the New York Times writes about adversarial journalism in a discussion with Greenwald
“…….The thing is, once you have publicly declared your “subjective assumptions and political values,” it’s human nature to want to defend them, and it becomes tempting to omit or minimize facts, or frame the argument, in ways that support your declared viewpoint. And some readers, knowing that you write from the left or right, will view your reporting with justified suspicion…..”
Clearly Abdelrahman frames his argument for political reasons. So you view Abdelrahman with “justified suspicion”, the same way I view Greenwald – and for the same reason.” ~ CraigSummers
This sums you up… your own words with your own choice of quote.
“I enjoyed the conversation.” ~ CS
(like Marriage)….(Just Like you do)…..(except for mine) ~ CS
“Thanks, but no. I make allot of mistakes when I use my memory” ~ CS
“It’s a confusing term though and probably one I should drop.” ~ CS
“At worst, it can be misinterpreted as a method to quiet dissent just like the charges of racism or antisemitism in public debates.”
Quiz questions:
Which term should CraigSummers probably drop?
Has CraigSummers ever called for the murder of Jews? (Just Like Mona)
re: “Down Outright Murder”: A Complete Guide To The Shooting Of Michael Brown By Darren Wilson
`Mona..
If I’m not mistaken, thecraig’s (.. as well as mine) argument w/ respect to the article in question, was the insinuation of murder in the title. Which with all due respect, was “Down Outright Pathetic”..
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/11/20/everything-know-shooting-michael-brown-darren-wilson/
ps – Mr. Devereaux.. It is of my humble opinion that you forgo the ‘Black on Black’ ensemble for all future riots. One would think that it would be hard to deduce the difference between a ‘reporter’ and a member of the ‘black bloc’, through the haze of the tear-gas being administered.
@& sophiisticated
thedongerneedjustice™
Don’t judge a book by it’s cover?
Sans title are we good to go?
`&Sophisticated..
thedongerneedjustice™
Don’t judge a book by it’s cover?
With a different title are we good to go?
`o-mazine..
Darn Tootin!!
addendum: on the prerequisite that he never complains about his ‘wasabi encrusted lips’, while sporting a ‘new sweat drenched Uniqlo shirt’..
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/01/justice-respect-ferguson-riots-justified/
tdnj™ – #astuteisyou
“Have Winnebago, Will Travel” -shazam
#astuteisyou drew a blank… it will get ‘filled’ #AskMona
#thedongerneedjustice yields $FloggingATrojanHorse
Winnebago Baby ;)
Hi Ryan
Thanks for your reply. I guess I’m a little surprised that you agree even with some of my reply. The administration is not very forthcoming with the drone program. The statement by John Brennan was completely idiotic.
“…..Claims by President Obama’s chief counter-terrorism adviser John Brennan that ‘there hasn’t been a single collateral [civilian] death’ in Pakistan since August 2010 are found to be untrue today, following a major Bureau investigation…..”
Afghanistan and Pakistan are very complex countries in an incredibly complex region. Again, thanks for your reasonable reply. I try to read different Intercept writers. I just never know when you post an article.
To say that the “complexities in Pakistan are immense,” while true enough is sand in the eyes. The issues at hand are US policy, its actions, and the legal, ethical, and logical rationales—to the extent that the White House bothers to articulate them at all, let alone honestly—fed to the public regarding the killing of people, many of them unintentionally.
It’s hardly complex to grasp the notion that signature strikes (and its pathological twin, “double taps”) and “targeted killings” are mutually exclusive. It’s no more difficult to infer bad faith from the US government’s behavior starting with its persistent refusal to disclose (a) the legal basis (a coherent version, that is) for what it is doing, to “non-combatants” and US citizens; (b) the factual standard it uses to decide whether someone merits death; and (c) the names and numbers of the “collaterals.”
And how complex is it to understand that the US knowingly figures “collaterals” into the equation, deeming itself to be out of compliance with its legal obligations only if “anticipated civilian casualties would be excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage.” (DOJ White Paper, “Lawfulness of a Lethal Operation Directed Against a U.S. Citizen Who Is a Senior Operational Leader of Al-Qa’ida or an Associated Force,” p. 8.)
Each of these things has zero to do with Pakistan. Or with saving lives.
“……The issues at hand are US policy, its actions, and the legal, ethical, and logical rationales—to the extent that the White House bothers to articulate them at all, let alone honestly—fed to the public regarding the killing of people, many of them unintentionally…….It’s no more difficult to infer bad faith from the US government’s behavior starting with its persistent refusal to disclose (a) the legal basis (a coherent version, that is) for what it is doing, to “non-combatants” and US citizens; (b) the factual standard it uses to decide whether someone merits death; and (c) the names and numbers of the “collaterals.”…..”
Have you written the Pakistan government so they can “….disclose (a) the legal basis (a coherent version, that is) for what it is doing, to “non-combatants” and [Pakistan] citizens; (b) the factual standard it uses to decide whether someone merits death; and (c) the names and numbers of the “collaterals.”…..”?
The reason we (US) are in Afghanistan (and therefore Pakistan) is because of 911. That’s where it all began. Drones are a military weapon – just like a tank, fighter jet and an M16. All kill civilians. All those weapons result in collateral damage including drones – and all are used because they are effective. Drones save American (NATO) lives and the lives of people in Afghanistan and help win the war (or at least leave a country that can defend itself against the Taliban). It’s always unfortunate that civilians die in a war zone.
Those are the points that matter.
A conveniently limited view of “points that matter.” Chanting “drones are military weapons,” “[d]rones save American (NATO) lives, and that it’s all Pakistan’s fault ” goes nowhere near answering the questions: (1) What’s the LEGAL basis for the US government’s use of them and all the other military tools in Afghanistan and Pakistan and Libya and Yemen and…. (Don’t say the AUMF, an authorization that’s long past its sell-by date.) (2) On what FACTS does the US government decide that someone is to be killed and that the collateral damage is worthwhile? Until the government does provide (honest) explanations, how is it possible for any citizen to knowingly opine on what his government is doing? (3) How do “signature strikes” square with Washington’s insistence that it takes great care to avoid collateral damage? (4) What footnote in the Constitution exempts the government from affording US citizens (even Muslim ones) due process rights before killing them?
In terms of saving “American (NATO) lives,” there’s a guaranteed method: remove all troops. Of course, doing so would compel Washington and its pom-pom wavers to give up on the delusion that the US can determine the outcome in Afghanistan. Equally laughable is the notion that the US can militarily “help win the war (or at least leave a country that can defend itself against the Taliban).”
A conveniently limited view of “points that matter.” – GKJames
Which is typical of CraigSummers’ jingoistic world view. Why? You answered it quite well:
Until the government does provide (honest) explanations, how is it possible for any citizen to knowingly opine on what his government is doing?
CraigSummers, as evidenced by all his prior posts, does not rely on mutually agreed to solutions as to what his government is doing; for the simple fact that it supports his political agenda, which coincides with the lawmakers themselves who do not opine openly and honestly about what things are done and why they are done on the American citizens behalf.
Thankfully, this status quo of willful ignorance and blind obedience to nationalistic tendencies is abating; this despite the desires of the psychotic CraigSummers of the world, who glorify torture, advocate drone killings/executions (even of American citizens) and think not of war as the means to an end (peace) but embrace it and its violence as the desired end result itself.
“The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.” – Henry Kissinger
“……Each of these things has zero to do with Pakistan. Or with saving lives…..”
You are clearly wrong with that answer as I explained in my answer to Mr. Devereau. Pakistan has brought the war to the Pakistan people with their policies of support for the Taliban and by providing a military safe haven. Drones are used specifically and successfully to disrupt terrorist training and planning in Pakistan – and kill terrorists. Drones do save lives – and that should be obvious. Drones save American (NATO) lives and the lives of Afghani civilians – as I also explained to Mr. Devereau. An article out of the New York Times yesterday also explained the success of the drone program in killing al-Qaeda operatives. Drones terrorize the terrorists.
“……On what FACTS does the US government decide that someone is to be killed and that the collateral damage is worthwhile?….”
The Geneva convention recognizes civilians will be killed in combat and the Geneva Convention also recognizes proportionate responses during combat operations. For example
“…….Under international humanitarian law and the Rome Statute, the death of civilians during an armed conflict, no matter how grave and regrettable, does not in itself constitute a war crime. International humanitarian law and the Rome Statute permit belligerents to carry out proportionate attacks against military objectives,[13] even when it is known that some civilian deaths or injuries will occur. A crime occurs if there is an intentional attack directed against civilians………” Luis Moreno-Ocampo, Chief Prosecutor at the International Criminal Court,
If you are asking exactly how many, then you need to take that question to the ICC, OK?
“……(4) What footnote in the Constitution exempts the government from affording US citizens (even Muslim ones) due process rights before killing them?….”
The legal rationale was published by the Obama administration which I support 100%, but the legality according to the constitution is probably dubious although maybe you can explain how the constitution deals with traitors? Acording to the Obama Administration:
“……..The U.S. government can unleash a deadly drone strike on an American citizen abroad if that person is plotting to attack Americans and can’t be apprehended, according to a newly released Obama administration memo describing its legal rationale for killing terror suspect Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen in 2011…..”
“……How do “signature strikes” square with Washington’s insistence that it takes great care to avoid collateral damage?….:
Civilians are going to die in a war zone. I’m certain that you understand that GQ. Drones – even signature strikes – will kill less civilians than fighter jets and/or a ground invasion. It’s not a perfect system, but is better than the alternative. According to the New York Times:
“…….Most security experts still believe that drones, which allow a scene to be watched for hours or days through video feeds, still offer at least the chance of greater accuracy than other means of killing terrorists. By most accounts, conventional airstrikes and ground invasions kill a higher proportion of noncombatants. But without detailed, reliable, on-the-ground intelligence, experience has shown, drones make it possible to precisely kill the wrong people……”
And,
“…….In terms of saving “American (NATO) lives,” there’s a guaranteed method: remove all troops. Of course, doing so would compel Washington and its pom-pom wavers to give up on the delusion that the US can determine the outcome in Afghanistan…..”
First of all, that has nothing to do with your questions, and short of the Taliban turning over Bin Laden (which the Taliban refused), invading Afghanistan was the best option to oust those who supported the terrorist training camps responsible for the murder of innocent civilians world-wide. I guess to some hiding under our couches would have been the correct response to 911.
Thanks.
[Re: CraigSummers Comments at 9:15pm]
I ask for facts, you cite the Geneva Convention. I ask for US government statistics on collaterals, you refer me to the ICC. I ask for legal rationales, you say that the US government has provided them but (i) don’t cite to anything specific; and (ii) admit that they’re “dubious.” I ask for the Constitutional exception to killing US citizens, you kick the question back to me (the answer to which, by the way, is that you bring allegations in a legitimate Art. III proceeding). For everything else, you cite the NYT. That’s a boatload of skirts to hide behind. It’s also indicative of the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of US policy and its supporters.
Thanks GK
My dear friend, one small correction. You wrote: “Pakistan has supported the Afghanistan Taliban since the mid 1990s for geopolitical reasons.” Well, that is only half-true. We gave the Pakees billions of dollars along with all the arms and ammunition and training to support and fund the Talibans. Even today, we give them all they ask. We don’t demand that they hand over Ayman al-Zawahiri and Mullah Omar to us. We didn’t ask them why they kept Osama bi-Laden sheltered. We don’t demand that the hand over to us the imprisoned doctor who helped us locate Osama bin-Laden. I think we are hyprcrites – though it’s hard to digest. What do you say?
Pakistan has played a double game with the US. After 911, we funded the Pakistan government to the tune of billions (“war on terror”) which they principally used to bulk up their military for India, They pretended to fight the Taliban (Afghanistan), but were actually in bed with the Taliban because they didn’t particularly care for Karzai who was seen as too friendly with India (geopolitics). The US relation with Pakistan has always been shakey. Possibly, the US still prefers Pakistan as an ally more than a foe which would drive Pakistan to China. I’m not sure about that though.
The US cut off funding to Pakistan in the early 90s because of their nuclear program, so the US did not directly fund Pakistan during the rise of the Taliban (as far as I know). Saudi Arabia and Pakistan worked together in support of the Taliban. Possibly, the US back-channeled arms and funding through the Saudis? I have not specifically heard that, but it is logical since the US did some wheeling and dealing with the Taliban over the pipeline in the late 90s.
We may have demanded that Pakistan turn over those guys, but Pakistan wasn’t talking – and it seems hard to believe that they didn’t know where Bin Laden was at the time of the raid. There is a huge amount of distrust between Pakistan and the US, but also some interesting pacts (like the Pakistan government condemning drone strikes, but secretly supporting them!).
Thanks General
Did you notice that recently China has replaced us as the Paki’s main donor? They are playing the game well.
But the trouble is that we know what they are up to and still play along – which seems to me very unethical.
Geopolitics in the Middle East provides all kinds of opportunities for journalist on all sides of the political spectrum. Personally, I am not a big fan of the Saudis, but the US is going along (although not happily) with Saudi Arabia in their bombing campaign in Yemen which serves no purpose except to send a message to Iran. If there is one country I favor in the Middle East to reduce our political ties, it’s the Saudis – but they have been a solid ally of the US for a long time. Cracks have developed in the relationship over the past decade.
US Middle East policies have generally favored stability, but that has fallen apart lately for lots of reasons.
Hold up.. Why do you again feel the need to use un necessary racist words like “Pakees”.
It’s so un necessary…
Only craig is loved for speaking his “mind”
He will of course (CraigLogic) by not saying anything and answering your post be supporting that ‘part’ of your comment (as may Mona for 1’st amendment reasons)
The same reason that they wear a white sheet over their head during the ‘Sunday Social’..
A Fabric That Becomes Them Production
TradeCraftMarked™
A Fabric That Becomes Them Production™
#thedongerneedjustice
“Drones operating in Pakistan save American (NATO) and Afghanistan lives.”
Possibly a good percentage of the drone strikes do save NATO lives. Why though? Because we are still there. With yet again no true end in sight.
Our empire is not beneficial to the vast majority of Americans, Craig. Our nation’s infrastructure crumbs all around us, yet we have these vast sums to pay for military contracts — to pay the men on the ground, employed in so many capacities in Afghanistan. They are then reliant on tactical support from the air. Which is in turn, supplied by a myriad of military vendors. It’s a tidy circular business that sucks the lifeblood out of us.
There is very little indication that it’s necessary for our well being. Quite the contrary.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/04/23/power-dzhokhar-tsarnaevs-middle-finger/#comment-126007
Just incase you are not like mona: “Trust me she has read this already”.. Because “true” to form she answered pretty much straight away.
Look forward to response.. leave it over there please, don’t want to get accused of derailing conversation to israel/mona conflict.
Aunt Sally
Drones are no more solely owned by CIA. They come in a variety of shapes and sizes, and are available for about $300 upwards. This is very dangerous. What I really dread is terrorists using, say, 200 small drones fitted with GPS and bombs, and then releasing them from a short distance from a target, programming them to all converge to a specific geolocation simultaneously. No security system would be able to intercept such a large number of drones. This makes all targets vulnerable to attack, regardless of country or region. Smuggling the drones and bombs to the launch site (backyards) can be done over a pretty long period, so may go undetected. Getting the GPS location of the target is child’s play these days. And these small drones could easily fly below the radar.
I hope the security folks are aware of this threat and have prepared for it. The software for GPS system should be able to detect this and deflect the drones to safe locations whenever a convergence is suspected.
The NSA can also eavesdrop on terrorists discussing this sort of plans in caves and forests of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, Yemen and Iran, and can catch them in time before they assemble their drones.
“We believed that this was an Al Qaeda compound.” (Barack Obama)
The power of faith!!! We *believed* – and if you clap really loud Tinker Bell will fly around Obama’s saintly head!
Incidentally, Hillary Clinton (or any of the other jokers who want the position of first puppet) will indubitably be even worse than the corporatist/militarist sociopath Barack Obama, which is, well, scary.
Two American born al-Qaeda members confirmed dead. Four altogether. According to the state media (New York Times):
“……LONDON — Revelations of new high-level losses among Al Qaeda’s top leadership in Pakistan’s tribal belt have underscored how years of American drone strikes have diminished and dispersed the militant group’s upper ranks and forced them to cede prominence and influence to more aggressive offshoots in Yemen and Somalia……While the C.I.A. drone strike that killed two Western hostages has led to intense criticism of the drone program and potentially to a reassessment of it, the American successes over the years in targeting and killing senior Qaeda operatives in their home base has left the militant group’s leadership facing difficult choices, counterterrorism officials and analysts say…….”
Drones are an effective weapon, Cindy. You can certainly disagree with their use and the death of civilians, but they are effective.
So I’m not allowed to say drones are not effective?
I guess it depends on how you define ‘effective,’ but I hold that they are counterproductive in terms of traditional American non-interventionism, and quite evil in terms of morality – but if you are supportive of an elite ‘US’ establishment controlled by transnational entities engaged in worldwide fraud, pollution and murder, yes, they are most effective in perpetuating a drama that is unnecessary except to the corrupted establishment.
This is not to diminish your opinion, just to place mine alongside it, as I felt you were telling me what I can and cannot say. By the way, I take the New York Times with a handful of salt, to be honest, as in my view they carry water for moral imbeciles every day.
Drones are an effective weapon, Cindy. You can certainly disagree with their use and the death of civilians, but they are effective. – CraigSummers
This is simply another iteration of CraigSummers psychopathic policy on the efficacy of torture, which, to date, CraigSummers has supplied no information to support that claim, either.
“Torture is an effective information gathering tool and certainly has saved (and continues to save) lives. One can certainly disagree with torture and the death of those tortured, but torture is effective.” – The TortureMonger™
quote”CraigSummers has supplied no information to support that claim, either. “unquote
Craig Summers is a scumbag milpropaganda sockpuppet…
http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2014/04/18/military-sock-puppets-nsa-trolls-cia-shills/
“……This is simply another iteration of CraigSummers psychopathic policy on the efficacy of torture, which, to date, CraigSummers has supplied no information to support that claim, either…..”
You are such a nitwit sillyputty. On drone strikes, the New York Times ran a story yesterday on the effectiveness of drone strikes (“….Drone Strikes on Al Qaeda Are Said to Take Toll on Leadership in Pakistan…”).
“…….“Core Al Qaeda is a rump of its former self,” said an American counterterrorism official, in an assessment echoed by several European and Pakistani officials…..Pakistanis estimate that Al Qaeda has lost 40 loyalists, of all ranks, to American drone strikes in the past six months — a higher toll than other sources have tracked but indicative of a broader trend. Now, they say, Qaeda commanders are moving back to the relative safety, and isolation, of locations they once fled, like the mountains of eastern Afghanistan, and Sudan…….Yet there is little doubt that the swooping valleys and deep forests have become a deadly refuge for Al Qaeda’s leadership. “The drones have left Al Qaeda in tatters,” said a Pakistani security official in Peshawar, speaking on the condition of anonymity. “They are in disarray, trying to reorganize but struggling to find people capable of leading the organization.”…..”
Read the rest if you want.
You are such a nitwit sillyputty. On drone strikes, the New York Times ran a story yesterday on the effectiveness of drone strikes… – CraigSummers
The lede – an ad hominem. Typical. Remember when you were told about arguments that started with a non sequitur and/or which ignored/evaded the facts? You lose credibility right off the bat, and the rest of the argument fails. You prove it yet again.
The NYT piece is nothing more than unattributed anonymous pom-pom waving.
Come back when you have a real independent assessment with names attached that can be fact-checked. Anything else is propaganda.
By the way, CraigSummers. Welcome back to hell. Remember, it is what you make of it.
“Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy.” – Henry Kissinger
“…..The NYT piece is nothing more than unattributed anonymous pom-pom waving…..”
Fairly predictable response from someone who knows they are wrong. I could find plenty of more sources on top of the two I provided (proving I’m right), but you will continue your denial ad infinitum. You are such a disappointment – and a classic example of a pseudo-intellectual.
Thanks as always.
I could find plenty of more sources on top of the two I provided… – CraigSummers
You mean discounting those provided, as they ‘prove’ nothing. But go ahead – bring these ‘sources’ for us to hear. Or cop-out yet again. Your call, as it always is – so put up or shut up.
Speaking of putting up – why not go ahead and back up what you’ve (not) been saying (yet claim you’ve been) about what you consider “a Jewish State” to be, specifically. Bullet points, stating what human rights and determinations are to be allowed the Palestinians, in particular, will work nicely here.
Yet another position which is oft noted by you (so you say, but never proved by you and as I recall, refuted by Mona).
This jumping from thread to thread when cornered on your continuing unaccountability, CraigSummers, are textbook examples of attempting to derail a conversation which you began – a sure sign of hypocrisy where the burden of backing up a claim you make is on you – not the questioner.
By the way, CraigSummers. Welcome back to hell. Remember, it is what you make of it.
“We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell.” – Oscar Wilde
quote”Drones are an effective weapon, Cindy. You can certainly disagree with their use and the death of civilians, but they are effective.”unquote
So are nuclear weapons. I’m positive you would be jumping in glee if the US leveled the entire Mideast.
“…….So are nuclear weapons. I’m positive you would be jumping in glee if the US leveled the entire Mideast…..”
You are such a fucking idiot – but you must know that, right?
Excerpt:
When? Perhaps when the middlebrow elite of our “newsmedia” stops weaving arguments in support of his policies: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/04/u_s_drone_strikes_civilian_casualties_would_be_much_higher_without_them.html#comments.
In brief, Saletan argued that drone strikes are good, because they are less deadly to civilians than full on war. His counter-examples were drawn from the most active periods in modern wars, or bombing campaigns in undeclared conflicts. He avoided the fact that drones are now used in situations where we would not have used force at all……… in that deadly past he cherry-picked for data.
Drones are ethically dangerous in large part because they dis-inhibit policy makers. They are (like tasers) a deft, but violent technology that encourages carelessness in high places.
“He avoided the fact that drones are now used in situations where we would not have used force at all…”
Agreed. Such arguments ignore the proposal of not bombing or abusing anyone! Apparently the US *has* to bomb someone, otherwise the terrorists will get on planes and kill us. Also such arguments ignore the rather obvious fact that bombing people with a viciously irresponsible lack of discernment will make more angered characters who will oppose Western hegemony.
It’s so weird: protecting multinational corporate interests and the corrupted, transnationally-owned ‘US’ establishment’s ability to have full spectrum dominance becomes according to the mass media (and the state) *protecting ‘the American people’ or ‘US interests,’* and people actually buy it.
Civilian casualties in the Iraq/Syria bombing aren’t even counted at all, for example, as far as I can tell. And although those are airstrikes sometimes launched from manned planes, the indiscriminate nature of the butchering is at least equivalent to the irresponsibility of drone-strikes.
“Drones are ethically dangerous in large part because they dis-inhibit policy makers.” Another excellent point. Relatedly, so many times I hear people say (after I tell them all the murderous things their precious Obama is actually doing) that Obama’s violence is better than putting troops as directly in harm’s way as Cheney/Bush did, as though only American casualties are meaningful – which ties back in to this article’s thrust.
The propaganda from the establishment – whichever ‘side’ it pretends to be on – is really repulsive.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/21/king-obama-drones-militarism-sanctions-iran
quote”Drones are ethically dangerous in large part because they dis-inhibit policy makers.”unquote
“Policiy makers” wouldn’t recognize ethics if it came up and bit them in the fucking ass.
Naureen Shah, director of Amnesty International USA’s Security and Human Rights program, called the Obama administration’s admission on what happened with these two hostages a welcome step, but made it clear that “apology and redress should be available for all civilians killed in U.S. drone strikes, not just U.S. citizens and Europeans. The U.S. government could be just as transparent about the hundreds of other drone strikes it has conducted in Pakistan and Yemen
This matter is so heavy. When are we going to hear from that person in Afghanistan collecting the names of the dead? Do you believe that guy is out there? If they are, I sure as hell don’t know how to begin to ask or where to start looking. I want to know what’s going on and I don’t. What we do know is Americans are being abandoned by this government in the Middle East. Yemeni Americans are trapped where they’re at. Every time I read stuff like this all I have are more questions. I guess I’ll go listen to more Soundgarden and try to figure something out. It’s hard to reach. I have my questions and Soundgarden. To the woodshed we go…
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/16/aclu-files-new-lawsuit-over-obama-administration-drone-kill-list
Everyone that comments on here is so precise and elequent. . I can draw really well, but I’m no writer. I hate our government and all the lies they tell. Our government has made almost every country in the world hate us. Even if they say they don’t they do. But if these countries coubtries decide to retaliate it will be us, the middle and the poor that will suffer. The ones who are at fault will be in their underground bunkers when they bomb us. Thank you Intercept. Please never stop informing us of the truth
This joke is just as applicable to the US, probably more so. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmIDSySGd1o
Let’s not be naive. Obama is not apologising about these two deaths because he is racist. He is seizing on a chance to strengthen a narrative that civilian deaths are a freak occurrence that cause him great mental anguish. Most people are still blinkered by the propaganda emphasising precision and discrimination and Obama is reinforcing the notion that this is “surgical” violence. The fact that he is almost farcically two-faced is actually his strength, because people don’t believe that they live in a world where someone who incinerates children on a regular basis could shed crocodile tears over an incident where the deaths of innocents seems to be an unforeseeable tragedy. To be more precise, people expect that he would get called out on his monstrous hypocrisy by the media. Both Hollywood and Israel also like to emphasise scenarios where the deaths of innocents are unforeseen consequences of righteous violence that hurt the hero – essentially making the perpetrator the victim – and completely obfuscate the fact of foreseeable and intentional violence against innocents.
excerpt:
from:
THE CASUALITIES OF THE WAR IN VIETNAM
http://www.aavw.org/special_features/speeches_speech_king02.html
If nothing else, Obama’s a creature of the age. To say that “I take full responsibility” is meaningless, intended to give merely the appearance of decency. As for the real thing? Not any time soon.
It would be nice if the families of Lo Porto and Weinstein sued Obama directly for wrongful death and a judge found “I take full responsibility” had legal meaning.
A guy can dream, right? But we all know what the outcome would be: the courts would prevent the necessary reckoning.
quote “I take full responsibility”unquote
What a fucking joke. As if he can be held accountable in any possible way. Obama mocks the definition of “responsible”. Taking responsibility means turning himself into the Hague for war crimes.
quote“Obama’s statement is really moving,” Qadri said. “And we welcome that, I welcome the fact he has done that.” But, he added, “there are hundreds, potentially thousands of others who deserve the same apology.”unquote
Deserve the same apology?????? I’ve got a gut feeling those “others” who were incinerated and blown to bloody shreds at the hands of the USG.. don’t give a flying fuck about any goddammed “apology”..moving or not. In fact, I’ve also got a gut feeling, that given a chance..their families would burn Obama alive and cheer while doing it.
Obama’s administration has aggressive military operations all over the place:
thousands of troops and thousands of contractors in Afghanistan…and drone strikes…
thousands of troops in Iraq…
hundreds of troops in Africa…
special ops in Africa* (and elsewhere)…
he’s bombing Iraq…
and Syria…
drone strikes in Yemen have slowed but not stopped while the US-backed Saudi assaults on that region were executed…
Somalia and Pakistan are still getting hit by US drones…
But he’s apparently the ‘peace’ president, and so his ‘reputation’ requires him to present himself as non-violent and caring, which is ridiculous.
Apart from being obscenely prejudiced (which he knows most will ignore – so thanks for pointing it out so starkly), this focused ‘apology’ allows him to maintain this absurd PR, causing some to remark wretchedly how wonderful it is he’s ‘taking responsibility.’
It really is grotesque.
*See Nick Turse: AFRICOM Behaving Badly.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175984/
The Pretender
https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/the-pretender/
A Historic Moment: The Election of the Greatest Con Man In Recent History
petras.lahaine.org/?p=1766
Buying Brand Obama
truthdig.com/report/print/20090503_buying_brand_obama
I never knew anyone had laid it all out so clearly, all in one place. Thank you very much. Amazingly comprehensive.
Paul Street is a journalist and Left analyst that everyone should read but too few people know about. His earlier two books on Obama, “Barack Obama and the Future of American Politics” (2008) and “The Empire’s New Clothes” (2010) are terrific and I recommend them to Intercepters, along with his new release, “They Rule: The 1% vs Democracy” (2014) which is now out in paperback. You can also check out his columns at paulstreet.org, and his work is also featured at the Black Agenda Report, zcomm, telesurtv, and Counterpunch. He writes thoughtful pieces about capitalism-imperialism, racism, political economy, propaganda, history, politics and social movements, and the ecological crisis.
Thank Ryan for corresponding . I have the same question .
“The compound had been placed under “hundreds of hours of surveillance,” Obama said.” There you have it, from the mouth of the President himself, further confirmation of the limitations of remote surveillance. Whether it is satellite imagery, SIGINT, COMINT, analysis of telephone traffic or the crappy imagery produced by those tiny cameras in the drones, no technological solution has ever adequately replaced the human element, and that human element means having people there.
Our global surveillance network was surprised by the atomic tests by India, Pakistan and Israel. It resulted in vast overestimation of the military capabilities of the Soviet Union, and of the capabilities of Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. Yet our leaders continue to rely on it, and to sell the kool aide to a clueless Congress and to an even more clueless American public. In the mean time, the failed War on Terror [sic] strategy continues to take innocent lives and provide the principal recruitment tool for the very people we are trying to counter. Will we ever step back and seriously evaluate our progress, and consider alternatives? Doesn’t look like it, does it?
“Our global surveillance network was surprised by the atomic tests by India, Pakistan and Israel. It resulted in vast overestimation of the military capabilities of the Soviet Union, and of the capabilities of Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.”
i.e., it’s working perfectly.
“one of the things that makes us exceptional …”
Apparently there’s quite a list of things.
Obama administration’s Transparency is near the top of the list, too.
Worthwhile: http://www.paulstreet.org/?p=1476
What are the intellectual and emotional tricks and strategies that the ruling class uses to alienate, decivilize, Nazify, and barbarize us? How does the ruling class effectively fool Americans into believing 1) the policymakers are our benefactors and guardians, 2) and that in order to guarantee national security, a concept which is seldom examined, no measure is too extreme, 3) the determination of who is the Really Bad and Evil Terrorist Enemy is the exclusive prerogative of the Serious Experts and that any critical questioning by civilians is tantamount to treason.
How is the dampened public outrage, or the absence (or weakened) public protest against US policy the desired outcome of years of ruling class strategies?
Just as, say, plagiarism by elementary or secondary school students (or even immature students enrolled in high ed) might indicate to us that underlying this problem is poorly thought out pedagogy, so too , I think, the problem of many Americans’ apparent powerlessness, ignorance, callousness, self-preoccupation, obedience, cowardice, alienation, and irresponsibility, as demonstrated by the absence of a serious robust nationwide movement that opposes the capitalist-imperialist, Zionist, terrorism and violence, is really a manifestation of how unserious and confused we are about Love and what it requires of us, and at the same time an illustration of why we need Left ideology. (Separation is sin. So is unwitting collaboration with fascism and capitalism-imperialism. )
David Abalos has said, we are faced with a “challenge, perhaps for the first time as Americans, to discover our actual past. We now have the opportunity to ask what in our past is fruitful and what is destructive. But before we can ask what in our heritage is creative and what is harmful, we need to know what stories and ways of life currently constitute our society and be prepared to empty ourselves of these partial and truncated dramas and ways of life so that we can create new and more compassionate stories in the service of transformation…. For most of our history as a nation, we have not recognized and continue not to recognize each other as full human beings.”
No. Obama won’t apologize. Nor will he (or the rest of the US gov) acknowledge the Armenian Genocide that started 100 years ago today. US gov loves death.
My understanding is that the US empire doesn’t apologize to its victims as a matter of de facto policy, and that’s part of what makes it “exceptional.” Didn’t George H. W. Bush say “I will never apologize for the United States — I don’t care what the facts are… I’m not an apologize-for-America kind of guy”? That was shortly after the USS Vincennes destroyed an Iranian civilian airliner. Mitt Romney also said: “I will not and I will never apologize for America. I don’t apologize for America, because I believe in America.”
Despite being morally dubious and exceedingly arrogant, that sort of statement must obviously resonate with their base.
American Exceptionalism:
The belief that no matter how many foreign governments and their elections the US subverts; no matter how many baseless wars devastate no matter how many millions; no matter how many are tortured and imprisoned without cause for no matter how long; no matter how many American minorities populate the extreme lower economic classes and its prisons: The Government of the USA would NEVER do anything so cruel, underhanded and deceptive to its own exceptional people.
“The Government of the USA would NEVER do anything so cruel, underhanded and deceptive to its own exceptional people.”
Perhaps more to the point, it wouldn’t apologize if it did.
read:
“Capitalism, war and the collapse of democracy”
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/04/22/demo-a22.html
and this excerpt:
from:
Blackwater and the crimes of US imperialism
wsws.org/en/articles/2015/04/16/pers-a16.html
and read: “Report documents carnage of US drone war in Yemen”
wsws.org/en/articles/2015/04/17/yeme-j17.html
Only Westerners are people.
Lieutenant Calley is said to have justified the My Lai murders under the “mere gook rule.”
No one ever told Calley “gooks” were human.
No one ever told Obama that non-Western people are human.
I suppose Al Qaeda to apologize would be a waste of effort but shouldn’t the Pakistan government be the one apologizing to all the families for allowing Al Qaeda to operate in its territory in the first place? That is why Pakistan is reaping the whirlwind.
And when a drunk driver runs over someone, maybe it was the pedestrian’s fault for going out into the street. Or maybe it was the car manufacture’s fault. Or whoever built the road. Let’s desperately blame anyone except the actual perpetrator.
Well Jose, you almost (unintentionally?) replicate EH Carr’s argument about ultimate causation. “Take the case of a man who drinks a bit too much, gets behind the wheel of a car with defective brakes, drives it round a blind corner, and hits another man, who is crossing the road to buy cigarettes. Who is the one responsible? The man who had one drink too many, the lax inspector of brakes, the local authorities who didn’t straighten out a dangerous bend, or the smoker who chose to dash across the road to satisfy his bad habit? ” In this particular case, I will blame Al Qaeda first, Pakistan second, and the US third for sloppiness.
As you would ,also, no doubt, if the U.S. dropped a nuclear bomb in Northern Pakistan.
I bet you don’t apply that reasoning to other pseudo-accidental killings in the context of geopolitics, say, the downing of flight MH17. Clearly, if we knew who pulled the trigger to bring that airliner down, that person would be hunted down and brought to justice if possible, regardless of the geopolitical context or any justification they can come up with. Claims of “collateral damage” or “war is like that” wouldn’t matter in that scenario, and even you would recognize what’s wrong with those platitudes.
Excuses used to justify behavior that is clearly unlawful under international law remind me a bit of the Nuremberg Defense.
“pseudo-accidental killings in the context of geopolitics, say, the downing of flight MH17. Clearly, if we knew who pulled the trigger to bring that airliner down, that person would be hunted down and brought to justice if possible” No, bad example, whoever pulled the trigger there is well protected from any kind of legal consequences. Who could possibly enforce the law there anyways? The UN? The ICC? Here let me give you another example, lets say you’re a Swiss tourist, neutral, visiting say Somalia, Pakistan, or Yemen and you get your head chopped off. I suppose technically that’s illegal, and there would probably be lots of speeches by Swiss politicians, but most likely nobody would really do anything about it. No, because those are lawless lands and because international law is still very much in the theoretical stage.
@Whendovescry: You’re seriously misunderstanding the argument if you think it’s about the logistics and difficulties of bringing the responsible parties to justice.
Oh I think logistics are a big part of it, after all these are areas of the country that Pakistan has admitted to having no control over. You don’t see drone attacks on major cities like Lahore.
Would that “reaping of the whirlwind” hold also for all the innocent police who have wanton murderers in their ranks?
You’ve misjudged me sir. I hate cops.
Oh sorry, I didn’t mean to specifically respond to your comment, except to say the it does seem funny someone named “Glenn” would be lecturing Barack Hussein Obama, the son of an African Marxist, “that non-Western people are human.”
You know what’s not funny? A Westerner agreeing that American drones programed and aimed by American drone operators, working at the direct command of an American president implementing his drone policy, that with all that, Americans bear only the most attenuated and tertiary responsibility for the resulting death and maiming from drones.
Oh Mona! I’m sure you don’t find humor in much of anything, but your shrill automatic responses provide us all with a model of constancy, and a measure of certainty a changing. May the prophet bless you.
What?
We don’t know what prejudices Obama personally has, but that actually doesn’t matter. He follows a script, and that script evidently includes apologizing to Western civilian victims, and ignoring non-Western ones. That’s a reality that isn’t erased by Obama’s irrelevant personal background.
Who is the child in the photograph who is never identified?
Nabila Rehman, age 9.
My heart breaks.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/29/pakistan-family-drone-victim-testimony-congress
I love you Vivek Jain. Thank you for caring so much. Be careful.
related:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/10/21/1287680168633/Samar-Hassan-screams-afte-006.jpg
story: nytimes.com/2011/05/07/world/middleeast/07photo.html
So I have a question for anyone who still has faith in Nobel Peace Prize winner Obama bringing Peace to the world… how do you bring peace by continuing to arm everyone to the teeth??
http://investmentwatchblog.com/obama-administration-has-approved-more-arms-sales-than-any-u-s-administration-since-world-war-ii/
Good question, Steve.
Based on form, Obama could just re-define peace. Just as ‘enemy’ was replaced by ‘unlawful combatant’ and defined to be ‘any man who is at the location of a drone strike’. Just as ‘imminent threat’ was stretched to ‘any potential threat, no matter how remote in distance, time or plausibility’.
In this case, ‘peace’ will come to mean security, under rule of law, for the wealthy and as much of their fellow citizenry as they deign to notice… you know, to preserve the illusion that their own prosperity isn’t supported by violence elsewhere.
That manipulation of language is precisely Orwellian. There is a foreshadowing of the zeitgeist of mainstream media paranoia and the military industrial complex, from Nineteen Eighty-Four (written in 1948):
“War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength.”
“Here were produced rubbishy newspapers containing almost nothing except sport, crime and astrology…”
“The proles, normally apathetic about the war, were being lashed into one of their periodical frenzies of patriotism.”
“… war hysteria is continuous and universal in all countries …”
“Everywhere there is the same pyramidal structure, [… ] the same economy existing by and for continuous
warfare.”
“… by becoming continuous war has fundamentally changed its character.”
You are Spot On with that Joe. It seems Digital Technology is just providing more and more content to support the mind-numbing-into-submission propaganda being dished out by Washington. They don’t even try to hide the fact that they are propagandizing anymore, Joe Biden says they need to up the budget for more propaganda to combat Russia’s Propaganda. Apparently the pretense at unbiased journalism is no longer as important as it used to be. The final proof that its time for Revolution (as if we needed more) will be if Hillary gets elected in spite of all the revelations and scandal. Jefferson was truly prescient (meaning he new Human nature, and extrapolated forward).
unsolicited suggestion for an alternative title ( “TL”… I know… )
“When will humans in the US (5% of humanity) realize that the violence carried out by the US government against our Sisters and Brothers, in our name and with our money, has NOTHING to do with “national security” or protecting the “American people” and everything to do with the 1%’s quest for world domination?”
To even foolishly continue to believe that US officials are well-intentioned and legitimate is a dangerous delusion, which only perpetuates our evasion of responsibility and obligations as human beings.
How many beautiful children, parents, siblings, elderly people, and communities are destroyed, incinerated, forcibly displaced and uprooted, violently reduced to rubble and dust, starved, dismembered–all for the false pretext of keeping America safe?
Not only should we NOT seek apologies from the sociopathic two-faced unrepentant war criminals who inflict so much violence and suffering, we should be outraged and calling for the arrest, prosecution and punishment of US policymakers and an immediate end to this violence and propaganda. Too many Americans have unwittingly allowed the propagandists and imperial policymakers to poison and harden our minds and hearts AGAINST the victims of the 1%, to manipulate us to hate and destroy our own family. The 99% of America must civilize and de-Nazify America, and to do this, we need radical politics and class analysis, and to take Love, power, justice, and responsibility seriously.
King said:
“Now we got to get this thing right. What is needed is a realization that power without love is reckless and abusive; and that love without power is sentimental and anemic. (Yes) Power at its best [applause], power at its best is love (Yes) implementing the demands of justice; and justice at its best is love correcting everything that stands against love.”
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~gmarkus/MLK_WhereDoWeGo.pdf
@Vivek Jain-Unfortunately, you and I are among the few who are ” outraged .” Our political class are criminals (according to our Constitution and Declaration of Independence) and I would love to physically take them out of office but fewer people would actually do it with me even though every US citizen is obligated to do just that (Declaration of Independence).
I’m sick of talking about those perfect turds in the bowl of politics and I’m ready to flush. Will anyone help?
As Jeremy Scahill said in February 2013 on DN, “Everyone is talking about drones these days and obsessed with drones. The U.S. uses AC-130 gunships, night raids, Tomahawk cruise missile strikes. Some of the most devastating strikes were not even drone attacks.”
It’s a good reminder to not lose sight of challenging imperialism and the large-scale violence by the ruling class as we rightly oppose the murderous technology used by the terrorist government of the US.
Michael Parenti reminds us:
Long ago I was aware of the AC-130 program while it was called Pave Spectre, and was going after NVA infiltrators along the Ho Chi Minh Trail. The idea was to detect activity, then simply carpet a multi-acre area with ordnance. So forget its utility as a pinpoint strike weapon. I can also assure all the readers that the FLIR systems on the AC-130s are little better than those on the drones, and are incapable of recognizing even the gender of a human target, much less identify them.
“We believed that this was an Al Qaeda compound, that no civilians were present and that capturing these terrorists was not possible.”
A niggardly rationalization for the actions of a coward.
A meme could be made to illustrate the imperial propaganda and official talking points re: who is a legitimate target, culpability for deaths of civilians
http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/militants_media_propaganda/
the entire “war on terror” is a fraud.
from 13 years ago:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/jul/14/usa.terrorism
“Nazis were executed for precisely what Washington is doing today.”
– Paul Craig Roberts
Just to clarify: the 99% shouldn’t be waiting for or seeking an apology from the war criminal POTUS. We should be doing everything we can to stop this violence and terrorism by the US government, and we should be identifying, exposing, debunking and refuting the lies told by pro-imperial publicists and officials to justify and normalize this violence.
Obviously, the subtext is that Zubair & Nabila’s family doesn’t deserve to know the truth. That is exceptional, alright.
Not only that but also whatever turns out to be “declassified” and “disclosed” will be as redacted as need to be turn what is seen by the public, aka in Obama-Speak as “folks,” into either one big black hole or a jumble of disconnected sentences explaining nothing.
Even in the US, it all depends on the presence of a bystander with a camera.
>>”One of the things that sets America apart from many other nations, one of the things that makes us exceptional is our willingness to confront squarely our imperfections and to learn from our mistakes,” Obama explained. “Already, I have directed a full review of what happened. We will identify the lessons that can be learned from this tragedy, and any changes that should be made.”<< In other words, what makes the US exceptional is its exceptional marketing skills … nothing will change, but I will say some nice words, bow my head at the proper times, herald my painstakingly chosen points of empathy and compassion with the absolute best hand and facial gestures my crack staff of PR expert douchebags has chosen for that task ….
“One of the things that sets America apart from many other nations, one of the things that makes us exceptional is our…” capability and eagerness to use drones to kill citizens of other countries (and occasionally our own) in nations on the other side of the world with whom we are not at war.
Obama has just publicly announced his complicity in War Crimes.
Thank you so much for this article. Isn’t it ironic that as the Black Lives Matter protest have raged, no one asked whether Pakistani lives matter, or Yemeni… The left is focused and outraged at the actions of some Policeman here, while giving Obama a complete pass for the Executions Without Trial he has been committing over-seas. Sorry, they are not on THE BATTLEFIELD, these drones are hunting people accused of crimes and killing them while they are at home (not in a turret behind a gun shooting at Americans) along with whoever else has the misfortune of being too close when the missile hits. Obama is indeed saying only American lives are important by only now feigning remorse. Gee, that’s not the tune he was singing when he was campaigning…
“No one asked”? Or is it that people have asked and this political awareness and connection-making is being deliberately kept out if the public’s consciousness by a pro-establishment media which chooses to frame it as a white Good Cop vs dangerous thug black victim story?
You should read Ajamu Baraka. And the excellent pieces at the Black Agenda Report.
Also, Steve, the Left doesn’t support Obama, because the Left understands that the office of the POTUS serves the capitalist-imperialist system and the Owning Class. You’re thinking of the pseudoleft: the liberals, progressives, and Democratic partisans, who are collaborators with the overt right.
That statement is just as bad or worse than what can be read here nearly everyday posted by the infamous CraigSummers in regards to the, stupid beyond any words that have not been used a thousand times before, pigeonholing the so called “Left” as you did.
Speaking for myself, I have been concerned and attentive to “Black LIves” while at the same time I have been concerned and attentive to the lives of those the Obama administration has been murdering in locations around the world. And I haven’t been giving Obama any sort of “pass” much less “a complete pass.”
In spite of your foolish game of using one issue to dismiss or “shame” another issue, people do attend to more than one outrage at a time. The fact that BlackLIvesMatter has been actually out there doing something about the murder by “some Police here” of black and brown men on the streets and homes of the United States should be recognized for the tremendous ongoing and solid action that it is, rather than used as some propaganda point for some agenda.
There’s a parallel with the way the post war activism (Adolph Reed’s phrase), popularly known as the Civil Rights movement is presented as though the watered down legislation of 64 and 65 were the ultimate objectives, and the way that Black Power is cut out of the official histories, and the growing political awareness and radicalization of activists and organizations is omitted.
The 1% prefers that we not see the growing empathy in our fellow Sisters and Brothers, and that we ourselves stay empathically arrested and divided. The ruling class prefers to take on a fragmented, easily disoriented working class that lacks socialist class consciousness.
Watch https://vimeo.com/114405723
Never. Why? Because of this:
This is the very scary, and very obvious consequence of propagandizing the American people to believe they are the “most exceptional people” and “greatest nation the world has ever known”. Splash a patina of “our God given right” around the entire propaganda frame and you should never wonder why it is the majority of the American people could care less about how many innocent men, women, children and old folks in other parts of the world are exploded into cherry red bits of flesh by high explosives if doing so is claimed to be “in America’s best interests” and/or to create the illusion of “keeping us safe” from the brown heathens and their “irrational” desire not to be “civilized” just like Americans.
Hillary Clinton will be much worse.
Well, that’s quite a comforting truth. As far as the article, Americans do not give a darn about people their government kills on daily basis, “for their protection,” and will never even realize the murders are on them.
God bless America, no one else ever would.