The Wall Street Journal reported yesterday that the NSA under President Obama targeted Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his top aides for surveillance. In the process, the agency ended up eavesdropping on “the contents of some of their private conversations with U.S. lawmakers and American-Jewish groups” about how to sabotage the Iran Deal. All sorts of people who spent many years cheering for and defending the NSA and its programs of mass surveillance are suddenly indignant now that they know the eavesdropping included them and their American and Israeli friends rather than just ordinary people.
The long-time GOP chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and unyielding NSA defender Pete Hoekstra last night was truly indignant to learn of this surveillance:
WSJ report that NSA spied on Congress and Israel communications very disturbing. Actually outrageous. Maybe unprecedented abuse of power.
— Pete Hoekstra (@petehoekstra) December 30, 2015
NSA and Obama officials need to be investigated and prosecuted if any truth to WSJ reports. NSA loses all credibility. Scary.
— Pete Hoekstra (@petehoekstra) December 30, 2015
In January 2014, I debated Rep. Hoekstra about NSA spying and he could not have been more mocking and dismissive of the privacy concerns I was invoking. “Spying is a matter of fact,” he scoffed. As Andrew Krietz, the journalist who covered that debate, reported, Hoekstra “laughs at foreign governments who are shocked they’ve been spied on because they, too, gather information” — referring to anger from German and Brazilian leaders. As TechDirt noted, “Hoekstra attacked a bill called the RESTORE Act, that would have granted a tiny bit more oversight over situations where (you guessed it) the NSA was collecting information on Americans.”
But all that, of course, was before Hoekstra knew that he and his Israeli friends were swept up in the spying of which he was so fond. Now that he knows that it is his privacy and those of his comrades that has been invaded, he is no longer cavalier about it. In fact, he’s so furious that this long-time NSA cheerleader is actually calling for the criminal prosecution of the NSA and Obama officials for the crime of spying on him and his friends.
This pattern — whereby political officials who are vehement supporters of the Surveillance State transform overnight into crusading privacy advocates once they learn that they themselves have been spied on — is one that has repeated itself over and over. It has been seen many times as part of the Snowden revelations, but also well before that.
In 2005, the New York Times revealed that the Bush administration ordered the NSA to spy on the telephone calls of Americans without the warrants required by law, and the paper ultimately won the Pulitzer Prize for doing so. The politician who did more than anyone to suffocate that scandal and ensure there were no consequences was then-Congresswoman Jane Harman, the ranking Democratic member on the House Intelligence Committee.
In the wake of that NSA scandal, Harman went on every TV show she could find and categorically defended Bush’s warrantless NSA program as “both legal and necessary,” as well as “essential to U.S. national security.” Worse, she railed against the “despicable” whistleblower (Thomas Tamm) who disclosed this crime and even suggested that the newspaper that reported it should have been criminally investigated (but not, of course, the lawbreaking government officials who ordered the spying). Because she was the leading House Democrat on the issue of the NSA, her steadfast support for the Bush/Cheney secret warrantless surveillance program and the NSA generally created the impression that support for this program was bipartisan.But in 2009 — a mere four years later — Jane Harman did a 180-degree reversal. That’s because it was revealed that her own private conversations had been eavesdropped on by the NSA. Specifically, CQ’s Jeff Stein reported that an NSA wiretap caught Harman “telling a suspected Israeli agent that she would lobby the Justice Department to reduce espionage charges against two officials of American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) in exchange for the agent’s agreement to lobby Nancy Pelosi to name Harman chair of the House Intelligence Committee.” Harman vehemently denied that she sought this quid pro quo, but she was so furious that she herself(rather than just ordinary citizens) had been eavesdropped on by the NSA that — just like Pete Hoekstra did yesterday — she transformed overnight into an aggressive and eloquent defender of privacy rights, and demanded investigations of the spying agency that for so long she had defended:
I call it an abuse of power in the letter I wrote [Attorney General Eric Holder] this morning. … I’m just very disappointed that my country — I’m an American citizen just like you are — could have permitted what I think is a gross abuse of power in recent years. I’m one member of Congress who may be caught up in it, and I have a bully pulpit and I can fight back. I’m thinking about others who have no bully pulpit, who may not be aware, as I was not, that someone is listening in on their conversations, and they’re innocent Americans.
The stalwart defender of NSA spying learned that her own conversations had been monitored and she instantly began sounding like an ACLU lawyer, or Edward Snowden. Isn’t that amazing?
The same thing happened when Dianne Feinstein — one of the few members of Congress who could compete with Hoekstra and Harman for the title of Most Subservient Defender of the Intelligence Community (“I can honestly say I don’t know a bigger booster of the CIA than Senator Feinstein,” said her colleague Sen. Martin Heinrich) — learned in 2014 that she and her torture-investigating Senate Committee had been spied on by the CIA. Feinstein — who, until then, had never met an NSA mass surveillance program she didn’t adore — was utterly filled with rage over this discovery, arguing that “the CIA’s search of the staff’s computers might well have violated … the Fourth Amendment.” The Fourth Amendment! She further pronounced that she had “grave concerns” that the CIA snooping may also have “violated the separation of powers principles embodied in the United States Constitution.”
During the Snowden reporting, it was common to see foreign governments react with indifference — until they learned that they themselves, rather than just their unnotable subjects, were subject to spying. The first reports we did in both Germany and Brazil were about mass surveillance aimed at hundreds of millions of innocent people in those countries’ populations, and both the Merkel and Rousseff governments reacted with the most cursory, vacant objections: It was obvious they really couldn’t have cared less. But when both leaders discovered that they had been personally targeted, that was when real outrage poured forth, and serious damage to diplomatic relations with the U.S. was inflicted.
So now, with yesterday’s WSJ report, we witness the tawdry spectacle of large numbers of people who for years were fine with, responsible for, and even giddy about NSA mass surveillance suddenly objecting. Now they’ve learned that they themselves, or the officials of the foreign country they most love, have been caught up in this surveillance dragnet, and they can hardly contain their indignation. Overnight, privacy is of the highest value because now it’s their privacy, rather than just yours, that is invaded.
What happened to all the dismissive lectures about how if you’ve done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to hide? Is that still applicable? Or is it that these members of the U.S. Congress who conspired with Netanyahu and AIPAC over how to sabotage the U.S. government’s Iran Deal feel they did do something wrong and are angry about having been monitored for that reason?
I’ve always argued that on the spectrum of spying stories, revelations about targeting foreign leaders is the least important, since that is the most justifiable type of espionage. Whether the U.S. should be surveilling the private conversations of officials of allied democracies is certainly worth debating, but, as I argued in my 2014 book, those “revelations … are less significant than the agency’s warrantless mass surveillance of whole populations” since “countries have spied on heads of state for centuries, including allies.”
But here, the NSA did not merely listen to the conversations of Netanyahu and his top aides, but also members of the U.S. Congress as they spoke with him. And not for the first time: “In one previously undisclosed episode, the NSA tried to wiretap a member of Congress without a warrant,” the New York Times reported in 2009.
The NSA justifies such warrantless eavesdropping on Americans as “incidental collection.” That is the term used when it spies on the conversations of American citizens without warrants, but claims those Americans weren’t “targeted,” but rather just so happened to be speaking to one of the agency’s foreign targets (warrants are needed only to target U.S. persons, not foreign nationals outside of the U.S.).
This claim of “incidental collection” has always been deceitful, designed to mask the fact that the NSA does indeed frequently spy on the conversations of American citizens without warrants of any kind. Indeed, as I detailed here, the 2008 FISA law enacted by Congress had as one of its principal, explicit purposes allowing the NSA to eavesdrop on Americans’ conversations without warrants of any kind. “The principal purpose of the 2008 law was to make it possible for the government to collect Americans’ international communications — and to collect those communications without reference to whether any party to those communications was doing anything illegal,” the ACLU’s Jameel Jaffer said. “And a lot of the government’s advocacy is meant to obscure this fact, but it’s a crucial one: The government doesn’t need to ‘target’ Americans in order to collect huge volumes of their communications.”
Whatever one’s views on that might be — i.e., even if you’re someone who is convinced that there’s nothing wrong with the NSA eavesdropping on the private communications even of American citizens, even members of Congress, without warrants — this sudden, self-interested embrace of the value of privacy should be revolting indeed. Warrantless eavesdropping on people who have done nothing wrong — the largest system of suspicionless mass surveillance ever created — is inherently abusive and unjustified, and one shouldn’t need a report that this was done to the Benjamin Netanyahus and Pete Hoekstras of the world to realize that.
Like most issues there are at least 2 sides to this. The first is the point made by the article with which i agree. NSA supporters suddenly become detractors when it is THEIR privacy being infringed (to hell with the average American’s privacy I suppose). The other nuance is that interestingly this time it is Israeli communications that were the prime target of the NSA under what some would say is a pro-Arab pro-Islamic Obama administration. While I disagree vehemently with Obama on most things, and with the infiltration of so called muslim radicals into his administration, it is indeed refreshing for once to see what happens when the spy shoe is on the other foot (my homage to Get Smart). It is a known fact that Israel has and continues to spy on the US routinely (among other intrusions and infiltrations of its own in ALL of our Administrations). Yet few ever speak of that highly disproportionate influence which has permeated ALL presidential administrations for over 65 years or so.
Candace:
“If the Intelligence Community is required to keep Congressional oversight committees fully informed of intelligence activities, I wonder why the House Intelligence committee would make a public announcement about looking into allegations over what the intelligence community has done in this case. Or … ”
Good point.
It appears that Intelligence Briefings are only about SOME of the LEGAL activities that the Intelligence Community engages in.
The vast number of activities, including advanced remotely implemented torture of innocent individuals for the sole purposes of destroying the victim’s brain or forcibly changing their political views in mind control ops, and the subsequent deaths of some of the victims, are crimes that pockets within the Intelligence Community, illegally classify in order to justify denying oversight committees access to or information about, precisely because of the horrific nature of the crimes.
Thousands of Americans suffer horribly from these abuses. But the crimes are only one of many the Committees will never know about. Officially at least.
Documenting here, at the height of the pain as is the case right now, is one of the few ways we expose these activities for the whole world to see.
On New Years day, more than 12 aircraft followed our little car home from work. It would be a torturefest, where the sciatic nerve of the left leg was remotely excited, generating unspeakable pain that made it impossible to sit or stand up from a sitting position, or assume any position requiring movement of all the leg muscles this nerve innervates.
But here I am again, determined to let the whole world know. Until they kill me…
I agree with this also:
“If the Intelligence Community is required to keep Congressional oversight committees fully informed of intelligence activities, I wonder why the House Intelligence committee would make a public announcement about looking into allegations over what the intelligence community has done in this case. Or why they would act surprised when they have to know that if you talk to government officials that are trying to undermine a nuclear arms agreement that your country is trying to pursue with another, then your communication will be swept up with it also.
Not so breaking news: after a story surfaces showing that someone in the Republican pack was sympathetic to betraying their country again, Republican politicians go on the attack claiming they’re victims, using their most favored explanation and method of damage control: I know you are but what am I. ”
which is a good thing because I wrote it.
@Lula the liar
You wrote:
” Fact: Nationalization of Iraq natural resources, official recognition of other religions and women rights, land reform, education, free healthcare… were advocated and in some cases implemented through laws before Saddam! ”
Here are the FACTS:
” BP, which was booted from the country in 1972 when Saddam Hussein nationalized the oil industry, and its partner CNPC of China were the only winners in Iraq’s first international oil auction in over 30 years for development rights for the 17.8 billion barrel Rumaila field.”
___http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bp-led-consortium-wins-iraq-oil-deal/
————-
” Western producers like BP, Exxon Mobil, and Shell are enjoying their
best access to Iraq’s southern oil fields since 1972,” Business Week
noted in its issue of March 4th of last year. (1972 was the year
Saddam Hussein nationalized Iraq’s oil fields.) ”
____http://www.countercurrents.org/ross190112.htm
————-
” n 1972, when Hussein nationalized the oil industry, he told local industry employees of his intentions only two hours before the official announcement. ”
____http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=coldwar-imperialism/iraqgate/saddam-nationalized-oil-1972.txt
On just one of the many lies you tell, these three references above are but a few that expose you for what you are. A liar. Many references of e en more worth are books.
I bet if you were worth it, I could do the same with each one of your lies…
Do you enjoy making a fool of yourself of you just stupid by nature?
Me (Lola): “Naturalization of Iraq natural resources..women rights…were advocated and in some cases implemented into through laws before Saddam”
You: “Lola is a liar”
FACT : In December 1961, Brigadier Qasim introduced Public Law 80,
“which dispossessed the oil companies of 99.5 percent of the area in which they had held prospecting rights under the former oil agreement.”
“With the announcement of “Law 80″ came the establishment of the Iraqi National Oil Company (INOC”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraq-and-the-battle-for-oil-a-historical-insight/24810
That was seven years before Saddam got in power. Your level of ignorance is beyond comprehension. You are using links and information that do not support your argument at all. What happened in 1972 was the end of a process that started way before Saddam was in power and during a period he even spent time in jail!! Again, how was he the most progressive leader in the Arab world if the new ideas you claiming he introduced were passed into laws and implemented before he came to power.
How can you be that stupid in this day of age?
@CraigSummers
You wrote:
” Gee, I wonder who might have been behind those attacks(?). ”
Let me say it one more time. Very slowly. Who might have been behind those attacks is very likely the madrassa graduates. As in Saudi funded madrassas.
Repeat the above until it slowly sinks in, which, admittedly, may be hard for you.
DocHollywood
I thought you might give up Doc. You obviously have no position to argue from since it is based on lies.
Thanks though. Keep trying.
Pat B.
“…..Pakistan has nothing to gain in embracing a discredited organization with no real value to benefit from…..”
Nothing I could say could possibly point out your incredible ignorance concerning the geopolitics in that part of the world than that statement. Pakistan only provided a safe haven for the Taliban to regroup and train for their war to regain power in Afghanistan. They supported the Taliban in their initial war to gain power in the 90s.
“……Don’t even drag the Kasmiri dispute into this because it is super dumb to imagine that the Taliban would somehow help the Pakistanis when their very name is a liability, before you can even consider anything else about the Taliban…..”
You are showing a third grade level of regional knowledge. First of all, the Taliban turned a blind eye to the Pakistan-supported terrorist training camps – the same ones used by Bin Laden. Secondly (and how many times do you want me to explain this to you?), Karzai was too friendly toward India so Pakistan supports the Taliban to retake power in Afghanistan. There have been numerous Taliban attacks against Indian interests in Afghanistan (Wikipedia):
“……The 2008 Indian embassy bombing in Kabul was a suicide bomb terror attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan on 7 July 2008 at 8:30 AM local time.[3] The bombing killed 58 people[2] and wounded 141.[4] The suicide car bombing took place near the gates of the embassy during morning hours when officials enter the embassy.[5][6][7]……According to the New York Times, India’s external ministry officials have been raising the issue of security of Indian personnel in Afghanistan for the past several months.[5] The Indian consulate in Jalalabad was attacked twice by hand grenades in 2007.[24] One soldier of the ITBP[clarification needed] was killed and four others injured in an attack by the Taliban on 5 June 2008.[21] In the aftermath of the attack, India’s Home Ministry cautioned its ITBP personnel to take necessary precautionary measures and also to remain at guard against fidayeen (suicide bomber) attacks. It also noted that the security being provided by the Afghan Police was “not up to the mark”.[21] In spite of these efforts, the embassy bombing of 2008 was later followed up by the 2009 Kabul Indian embassy attack and the February 2010 Kabul attack on Indian citizens and interests in Afghanistan…..”
Gee, I wonder who might have been behind those attacks(?).
We need to discuss the real question which could make many of the issues all of you are talking about go away. Do we wish to continue a life of excesses in that we consume to the point of world depleation of resources. The Four Horseman are not coming, they are here !
@Lola the miserable
You wrote:
” So a country that has too much money to buy its own weapons wherever its wants would stop its policies because the US stops dealing with it. ”
As things stand now, Saudi Arabia is all about THE MONARCHY! The Saudi PEOPLE have no voice in anything that goes on in their country. Did you say you just started drinking YOUR brain- building milk?
The MONARCHY WOULD NOT EXIST WITHOUT U.S. SUPPORT. Period.
You cut the hand that feeds and the animal a natural death.The Saudi people, after the MONARCHY is gone, which will surely happen if the U.S. stops propping it up, would spend their oil money getting THE HOUSING that they do not have now, and NOT on weapons that deteriorate under the scorching desert sun, only to be replaced by billions of dollars worth of more weapons.
Idiot !
Do you enjoy making a fool of yourself or you are just stupid by nature?
You: Saddam Hussein was the most progressive arab leader. Progressive means somebody coming with new ideas, new reforms.
Fact: Nationalization of Iraq natural resources, official recognition of other religions and women rights, land reform, education, free healthcare… were advocated and in some cases implemented through laws before Saddam! He however pursued human rights violations to a greater level than his predecessors.
You: Pakistan PAYS for everything it gets from the US. It gets nothing for free
FACT: the coalition support fund is not a loan. The US government gives funds to countries that support the US in the war on terror. That includes Pakistan. The cash the US provides is way more than the costs of military operations those countries perform. So much more that those countries, including Pakistan use those funds to acquire military equipment they do not even use in military operations.
You: the Saudi people have no voice in anything that goes in their country.
Fact: Saudi Arabia is a tribal society. The most powerful tribes decide who should run their country. The royal family is well aware of this tradition and always make sure those tribes get what they want.
You: the monarch would not exist without the US
FACT: The absolute monarch in Saudi Arabia is part of the Saud family that founded the first saudi state, a monarchy, in the year 1744. That is more than 30 years before the USA was even an independent country!
FACT: The US showed real interest in Saudi Arabia a few years before WWII with the discovery of oil. That is more than 100 years after the Saud family had been in charge of the absolute monarchy with poor resources.
You: the monarch would surely be gone if the US stops propping it up.
FACT: The US does not give money to the monarch. The US does not give weapons to the monarch. Saudi Arabia has enough money and it buys weapons from whomever it wants.
Again, you are not just stupid. You are insane. It is not even funny anymore. Your level of ignorance is beyond comprehension.
@CraigSummers
You wrote:
” I am not particularly fond of Saudi Arabia … ”
Of course. Not particularly fond; just VERY fond. I get it.
Listen, you can’t argue with the truth. Pakistan would have long been bombed into antiquity by America had it funded the madrassas that Saudis fund to churn out terrorists, despite the fact that the US needs Pakistan as a strategic partner of sorts in this so called WOT.
The drones that you talk about do TARGETED killings supposedly – targeting the very ‘terrorists’ that Pakistan herself is happy to be rid of. That the drones often hit wedding processions, and occasionally a grandma in the farm, cannot be blamed on Pakistan.
Don’t even drag the Kasmiri dispute into this because it is super dumb to imagine that the Taliban would somehow help the Pakistanis when their very name is a liability, before you can even consider anything else about the Taliban.
Pakistan has nothing to gain in embracing a discredited organization with no real value to benefit from. And certainly not to the ridiculous point of involving it in its dispute with India over Kashmir.
Taliban are neighbours of Pakistan. Many of them LIVE in Pakistan, thanks to the never ending invasions of their country.
Pakistan has no choice but to dialogue with them, something I do not believe you even understand given the content of some of your posts here.
You seem unable to distinguish between embrace and dialogue.
Pat B.
“…….The answer is a resounding NO! That is because, true to your ignorance, you have no clue who is behind the assembly line manufacture of terrorists in both Pakistan and Afghanistan…….The buck stops at our beheading ally – Saudis…….”
The buck actually stops with the Pakistan government who funded, armed and supported the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Pakistan is a failed state because of their own policies supporting terrorism. I am not particularly fond of Saudi Arabia which helped fund the Taliban, but in Pakistan, you need look no further than ISI (Pakistan intelligence) which IS a branch of the Pakistan government.
Thanks.
There is absolutely nothing surprising about the RE-actions of our double-standard pseudo-democratic leadership. In fact, how could we listen to them cheer-lead for dystopia and not recognize that they believe themselves exempt from the Big Brother Machine? And as far as their about-(two)faces go, you can only expect (again) that all they will work for is the self-exemption they believe they are “entitled” too as the 1% “Amerikan exceptionalist” Congress.
That should be obvious with the recent hidden CISA rider to the 2016 budget.
@Lulo the plain
You wrote:
“The CSF (Coalition Support Funds) is not a loan! It is a reimbursement from the US government… ”
Take an Oxford Etymological Dictionary and look up the word ‘ reimbursement ‘ stupid then ‘re-read your own sentence !
Hopefully it will dawn on you at some stage that the party being reimbursed had actually SPENT MONEY, as in PURCHASING SOMETHING !
Should have drunk milk as a baby. Helps brain development.
“Should have drunk milk as a baby. Helps brain development.”
I still do. And milk also helps your ability to read. You obviously do not have that ability. So have somebody else who drinks milk read the link I provided. One is from the US Congress and one is from Harvard University. They both present clear FACTS that Pakistan has received way more under the CSF than it spends. For instance, Pakistan Air Force received equipment worth billions of dollars while it is rarely used against terrorists.
Yes, Pakistan has received military support for free from the US. That is a FACT. You reach the level of insanity when you are arguing with facts. Your level of ignorance is beyond comprehension.
Do you enjoy making a fool of yourself or you are just stupid by nature?
@CraigSummers
You wrote:
“That just shows your ignorance and willingness to blame Saudi Arabia because they are a US Allie. ”
Saudi Arabia is not blamed for anything. All that is being done is simply attribute actions taken by Saudi Arabia, and the consequences of those actions, to Saudi Arabia.
I do not understand why you seem to develop migraines that have you ranting each time simple facts are laid out to you.
@Lola the unfortunate
You wrote:
” If the US stops all ties with Saudi Arabia. That means no diplomatic relations, no weapon sales…absolutely no ties at all. Would that act stop human rights violations in Saudi Arabia? Would that act stop Saudis from financing madrassas? ”
The obvious answer is YES to all the above. Because there would be NO beheading Saudi monarchy to speak of, stupid arse ! And the people of that sad country would finally be FREE !
Do you enjoy making a fool of yourself or it is just your nature?
So a country that has too much money to buy its own weapons wherever its wants would stop its policies because the US stops dealing with it.
Laughing at you would be immoral. You are not just stupid. You are retarded.
“The spying may actually have some value if it exposes the Politicians for the lying scum they are. How about some treason charges?” Max
I so agree.
DocHollywood
“…..“My lying is getting comical. I offered unqualified praise for the “success” of an assassination regime that “saved American lives” while literally ignoring the civilian “brownies” it killed; I wouldn’t do that if the civilians concerned me, and I wouldn’t call them “brownies” either. I’m not implying that Muslim civilians aren’t being killed – they are – I’m implying that they don’t even matter. If they did, I wouldn’t offer unqualified praise for an assassination program that kills innocent Muslim civilians, and I wouldn’t refer to them with racist epitaphs…..”
Again Doc, you are completely wrong. I did not offer unqualified praise for the killing of anyone although I firmly believe that the US military avoids civilians if possible. I stated a fact i.e., that the drone program saved American lives (is that what pisses you off so much?). This was carried by the Intercept – apparently your only source of news. End of story. Do you believe that the US military (or any military) is going to allow the enemy to attack without retribution? Can you name one war where civilians have not been killed? In addition, as I have stated time and time again, the Taliban are responsible for approx. 75% of the civilian casualties in Afghanistan (UN report):
“……The UNAMA report highlighted that ‘Anti-Government Elements’ remain responsible for 72 per cent of all civilian casualties. Meanwhile, Pro-Government Forces are responsible for 14 per cent of civilian casualties with 12 per cent of that linked to the Afghan national security forces and two per cent to international military forces. Ten per cent of civilian casualties could not be attributed to a specific party and three per cent were caused by explosive remnants of war…..”
How long are you going to ignore the facts? The coalition forces are responsible for 2% of the civilian casualties. The US military should be praised for avoiding civilians in combat while the Taliban indiscriminately target and murder civilians. This is just one more example of Muslims killing Muslims for power i.e., brown people murdering brown people for power. It is a common theme. Try some outside reading Doc (outside of the Intercept).
You are another classic example of a far left wing radical propagandizing on behalf of the terrorists. Do you have no shame, Doc?
The post [edited] for accuracy:
“My lying is getting comical. I offered unqualified praise for the “success” of an assassination regime that “saved American lives” while literally ignoring the civilian “brownies” it killed; I wouldn’t do that if the civilians concerned me, and I wouldn’t call them “brownies” either. I’m not implying that Muslim civilians aren’t being killed – they are – I’m implying that they don’t even matter. If they did, I wouldn’t offer unqualified praise for an assassination program that kills innocent Muslim civilians, and I wouldn’t refer to them with racist epitaphs.
I cheer the American lives saved while ignoring the innocent “brownies” killed. There’s none of my usual contradictions here, just moral depravity. It takes a gross jingoist bigotry to devalue the lives of non-Americans and Muslims the way I do.
That’s why I manipulate quotes from the guy who said collecting metadata (in Afghanistan) saved American lives by splicing out these critical parts]:
The civilians here are Afghanis, not Americans. So I can ignore this and still claim that there isn’t “a counter argument” because the deaths of innocent Afghani don’t matter. I didn’t say they don’t matter; I’ve implied they don’t matter.
It’s always been apparent that my faux concern for Muslims is just that: a fake. I pretend to care about “little Muslim girls getting acid thrown in their faces” and “the murder of Muslims by Muslims” while referring to them with disgusting racist epitaphs and cheering on – from a comfortably safe distance – the far greater violence that America has been doing to them all. I’m not fooling anybody, but the dishonesty, hypocrisy, and bigotry I revealed today was a little bit more obvious than usual.”
Wiring Up The Big Brother Machine…And Fighting It (Paperback – July 7, 2009)
by Mark Klein (Author), James Bamford (Foreword)
http://www.amazon.com/Wiring-Big-Brother-Machine-Fighting/dp/1439229961/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1451965907&sr=1-1&keywords=Wiring+Up+The+Big+Brother+Machine…And+Fighting+It
5.0 out of 5 stars A book surveillance researchers will greatly appreciate, August 19, 2009
By Aaron K. Martin
This review is from: Wiring Up The Big Brother Machine…And Fighting It (Paperback)
[Excerpt]
AT&T later tried to prevent Klein and the EFF from pursuing a lawsuit against the company by claiming the unclassified documents Klein had collected while working there contained confidential and proprietary information: trade secrets. The judge involved in the case was not convinced. The Feds tried invoking the state secrets doctrine in an attempt to invalidate the lawsuit, but this unusual judge still refused to dismiss the case. As Klein points out, this move only brought more media attention. Ultimately, it took an act of Congress to change the law to grant retroactive immunity to AT&T and other telecommunications companies. This unprecedented manoeuvring effectively ended the lawsuit.
(cont.)
http://www.amazon.com/review/R164J20Y7CB4LU/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1439229961&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=283155&store=books
Comments
Initial post: Mar 19, 2010 4:29:33 PM PDT
John Burd says:
What is more interesting is that QwestWhat is more interesting is that Qwest CEO Joseph Nacchio claims the NSA wanted to plug in before 9/11.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/10/nsa-asked-for-p/
Reply to this post
In reply to an earlier post on Apr 4, 2012 8:59:29 AM PDT
Marina says:
It’s worse than mere surveillance; google gangstalking, Gestapo, EMF/RF murder. ALL Americans are in a virtual prison system. Mainstream media are owned by the banksters and their military hitmen.
Pat B.
“…….Saudi Arabia, the U.S. beheading ally, sponsors all madrassas in Pakistan, hundreds of them, in which kids are indoctrinated in the most dogmatic and intolerant brand of Islam. Most graduates of these madrassas have staged the most horrific of terror acts. The madrassas often have more funds than Pakistani or Afghan public schools and are beyond the control of the governments. And the victims are often Sunni although targeted terror has been reserved for Shias……..The buck stops at our beheading ally – Saudis…..”
That just shows your ignorance and willingness to blame Saudi Arabia because they are a US Allie. Of course, the Saudis are not blameless, but the primary responsibility goes to the Pakistan government. Pakistan supports the madrassas and the Taliban for geopolitical reasons, and they have since the mid 1990s when the Taliban rose as a military force. The Pakistan government feels that the Afghanistan government – especially when under Karzai – is/was too close to India. By supporting the Taliban, Pakistan hoped to undermine that relationship.
The Saudis helped fund the Madrassas which sprang up because of the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. This is what created the refugee crisis in Pakistan. In reality, the Russians are at fault as much as anyone. Do you idiots on the left ever blame Russia for anything?
The ISI brought the war to Pakistan because they provided a safe haven for the (Afghanistan) Taliban. This is why the US uses drones in Pakistan and why Pakistan civilians have been killed by US drones. The Pakistan people have only their own government to blame. As you are well aware, the Pakistan-supported Taliban account for 75% of the Afghan casualties. I am not a particular lover of the Saudi regime, but the ISI has a long history of supporting terrorism in their war against India. The Saudi government is partially at fault, but the lion’s share goes to Pakistan which has blood on their hands in Afghanistan.
Quit attempting to put this all on the Saudis for political reasons.
@Julean
My sympathies to you.
Pls tell your shrink not to change your medication so often. See how it makes you ramble now?
@Lola
I quote you: “Israel has its own defense industry that is actually very successful. Human rights violations against Palestinians from the IDF do not depend on those multi billion dollars equipment provided by the US. ”
The first sentence is true. But who do you think underwrites the research and development of those weapons systems ? The multi billion dollar GRANTS ( never to be repaid) that the U. S. taxpayer folks out annually to prop up the State of Israel.
And this is in addition to weapons systems that Israel acquires from the US. ALL have an American DNA on them and yes, are used and TESTED on the Palestinians.
@Lola
You assert that ” Pakistan does receive money and military equipment from the US. ” in a twisted attempt to draw an invalid distinction between PURCHASES of U.S. arms products by the Saudis, as if military military equipment and monies received by Pakistan are gratis !
Pakistan PAYS for every piece of equipment it receives. And PAYS every dollar it BORROWS. America never gives anything for free. Never.
Do you enjoy being stupid or it is just your nature?
“Pakistan PAYS for every piece of equipment it receives. And PAYS every dollar it BORROWS. America never gives anything for free. Never.”
The CSF (Coalition Support Funds) is not a loan! It is a reimbursement from the US government to the military of certain countries that participate in the war against terrorism. Pakistan got most of its military aid from that program since 2002. Seriously, do you enjoy making a fool of yourself?
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41856.pdf
http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/files/Final_DP_2009_06_08092009.pdf
@Lola
You wrote:
” Would the Taliban and other terrorist groups in Pakistan stop killing Shias, stop attacking schools killing kids if the US would stop providing ANY support to Pakistan? ”
The answer is a resounding NO! That is because, true to your ignorance, you have no clue who is behind the assembly line manufacture of terrorists in both Pakistan and Afghanistan.
I’ll clue you in: where were you when 19 of 21 terrorists, ALL SAUDI NATIONALS and graduates of Saudi-sponsored Wahhabi madrassas in which a particularly virulent brand of Islam is taught, kickstarted the WOT (war on terror) on 911? And of course no one would even QUESTION the right of Saudi nationals to commit such an act, instead we had to go torture Iraqis in Abu Ghraib! Freaking brilliant !
Saudi Arabia, the U.S. beheading ally, sponsors all madrassas in Pakistan, hundreds of them, in which kids are indoctrinated in the most dogmatic and intolerant brand of Islam. Most graduates of these madrassas have staged the most horrific of terror acts. The madrassas often have more funds than Pakistani or Afghan public schools and are beyond the control of the governments. And the victims are often Sunni although targeted terror has been reserved for Shias. Pakistan IS predominantly Sunni with pockets of Sufi, Sikh, Christian etc.
The buck stops at our beheading ally – Saudis.
From Saddam Hussein being the most progressive leader in the Arab world to another distorted argument.
Do you and Jose come here to compete for a stupidity contest?
So, let me put it to a kindergarten level for you:
If the US stops all ties with Saudi Arabia. That means no diplomatic relations, no weapon sales…absolutely no ties at all. Would that act stop human rights violations in Saudi Arabia? Would that act stop Saudis from financing madrassas? The US is not the main trading partner of Saudi Arabia and SA has enough money to buy weapons wherever it wants.
Edit: last sentence, of->for
This country would benefit greatly from the occasional public flogging of hypocritical politicians.
Glenn Greenwald is doing all he can to prevent America from surveilling muslims. It appears that Snowden was merely a pawn to be used to access information to enable traitors like Greenwald to use lawfare to transfer large sums of money from the american taxpayers to these muslims. It is just another method to extract jizya from the kaffirs.
WOW!
Saudi Arabia started off the year by cutting off the
heads of 43 people and the fake USA continues to
support the Saudi, Pakistani, and Israeli militarizations
and fundamentalists with TENS of BILLIONS of dollars
while they keep increasing the slaughtering of innocent people.
You have achieved something amazing –
a level of bigotry so far removed from reality that
birdcrap looks sanitary by comparison.
1) Saudi Arabia: the US does not give neither money nor equipment to Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia BUYS everything it wants from USA, Europe, Russia, China….Most of Saudi Arabia’s exports do not even go to the USA. Even if the US was run by a bunch of highly moralistic wise men I am not sure how you would expect the US to have Saudi Arabia change its human rights records. Human rights in North Korea, a country with no oil, has gotten worse even with all types of sanctions from multiple countries.
2) Pakistan does receive money and military equipment from the US. However, whenever I watch the news (Pakistanis, Indian, Russian, American, European…news) It is not the government blowing up markets, massacring kids. It is always Taliban, and other terrorists groups that are killing Shias in the markets or kids in their schools. Of course as a Greenwald supporter, you probably believe that everybody else is propagandized and all those news are false. What if you were right and every single one of them was false. Would the Taliban and other terrorist groups in Pakistan stop killing Shias, stop attacking schools killing kids if the US would stop providing ANY support to Pakistan?
3) Israel has its own defense industry that is actually very successful. Human rights violations against Palestinians from the IDF do not depend on those multi billion dollars equipment provided by the US. Those explosives and small arms responsible for most of Palestinian deaths can be obtained easily. So again, how would the US lack of support to Israel would prevent Israeli soldiers from entering or shelling Gaza with weapons that Israel produces itself?
There’s a lot of nonsense that can be unpacked from your comment. So what if Saudi Arabia doesn’t receive direct aid from the US? It’s not hard to understand how the relationship works. Now, the idea that sanctions don’t work is bewildering, coming from an apologist of state aggression. Of course they work, which is why the US often uses it as a soft weapon of choice. Witness what Iran had to give up to get back their retained assets. The conventional wisdom that sanctions haven’t worked against Cuba or North Korea is incredibly naive. Destroying an economy “works” in various ways.
Neither the Pakistani government nor any other government should receive US aid. That’s a violation of self-determination. I’m sure everyone understands the principle if applied to the US government: It should not be funded by a foreign government, say, China. Beyond that, you seem to be defending a government accused of enforced disappearances.
Your third point is just preposterous: If a country would engage in human rights violations anyway, what are you gonna do? You keep selling them weapons. That’s demented.
“There’s a lot of nonsense that can be unpacked from your comment”
“Now, the idea that sanctions don’t work is bewildering”
“The conventional wisdom that sanctions haven’t worked against Cuba or North Korea is incredibly naive.”
As you are one of the most stupid commentators here I doubt you even notice the nonsense of your own argument.
“Neither the Pakistani government nor any other government should receive US aid.”
“If a country would engage in human rights violations anyway, what are you gonna do? You keep selling them weapons. That’s demented.”
1) You seem to worry about human rights violations, but yet you would not provide aids to any governments asking for support to stop human rights violators. That is called NONSENSE
2) Neither Israel nor Saudi Arabia would stop human rights violations if the US stop selling them weapons. Saudi Arabia does not need sophisticated patriot missiles to behead activists. The armor tanks and assault rifles you see the IDF uses when entering Gaza are designed and manufactured in Israel.
So again, how would the US stop those countries from engaging in human rights violations by stopping the sale of weapons to them? One is wealthy enough to buy weapons wherever it wants. The other manufactures its own weapons.
And something else to contemplate re: SA
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2016/01/04/will-the-u-s-fall-for-saudi-arabias-deliberate-provocation/
The accuracy of NSA wiretapping AIPAC and Israeli leaders is without question as they were attempting to suborn the Iran deal to end the nuclear bomb threat. Now that the deal seems to be working that information can be covertly used to compromise those members of congress from both parties who may wish to limit the spying and budget restrictions on the security agencies. The same info. can also affect any candidate for public office, including those running for President of the US.
The Iran “deal” was not about any nuclear threat.
There is not now and there never was
any evidence to support the accusation that Iran
was trying to create any nuclear weapons.
In fact, the “deal” was between members of the
UN “Security Council” wherein they can reinstate
sanctions based upon future unsubstantiated accusations.
The opposition to the deal was posturing which
helped fool people into seeing the Obama administration
as if they were not after the same goal as Israel and
the most vocal predators in congress.
There is no justification for the sanctions which have had
(and will have in the future)
the support of ALL of congress.
This deal is a ruse to further the real agenda –
Taking over all of the Iranian resources for corporate control.
Iran is trapped by the corporate predators and Iran is the
only participant who is trying to relieve the
unwarranted economic bondage
for the benefit of its people.
“There is not now and there never was any evidence to support the accusation that Iran was trying to create any nuclear weapons.”
The IAEA Board of Governor provided the evidence in a report on November 2011.
“Section G: Possible Military Dimension”
“The Board of Governors has called on Iran on a number of occasions to engage with the Agency on the resolution of all outstanding issues in order to exclude the existence of possible military dimensions to
Iran’s nuclear programme…Since August 2008, Iran has not engaged with the Agency in any substantive way on this matter.”
The report also provided DETAILED information that justify the suspicion that Iran has been attempting to have a military dimension to its nuclear program.
http://www.isis-online.org/uploads/isis-reports/documents/IAEA_Iran_8Nov2011.pdf
“This deal is a ruse to further the real agenda –Taking over all of the Iranian resources for corporate control.”
Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Iran. These are countries whose natural resources have been fully owned and controlled by their governments for decades. Some of them have the highest GDP per capita in the world. Do you get your information only from The Intercept? I advise you to visit Qatar or UAE. Two countries with Western military forces on their soil while their governments have controlled their natural resources for decades!
what the NSA is doing violates every civil liberty of citizens not o mention the constitution does not allow for things like this to be done
Here she is, in all her glory:
http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Joanne_Hosea_5437075/
http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Joanne_Hosea_5437075/
No more explanation needed…
http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Joanne_Hosea_8163327/
dickhead you must be on Hillary’s payroll. I’ve been on the receiving end of cult nsa shit for 14 years. Your crap is laughable it just fuels me all the more. Evil Obama cult! Lol!
Attn. Greenwald. “Insubordination” … in answer to your recent query why the Pentagon, DoD, State Dept, etc. have not closed Guantanamo as ‘ordered’ by the President CiC.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/opinion/sunday/the-pentagons-insubordination-on-guantanamo.html?ref=opinion
*of course, though the NYT editorial copiously refers to that ol’ obstinate Congress as a continuing obstacle to the Presidents plan on closing Gitmo (the 10th circle of Dante’s hell, imo), I continue to maintain Congress had little to do, directly, w/ that Hell Hole’s creation … and, therefore, should have even less to do w/ it’s closure.
Ron Fournier
National Journal
Wednesday, June 12, 2013
[Excerpt]
Finally, syndicated liberal columnist David Sirota challenged the views of “Permanent Washington” in an analysis arguing that NSA’s actions are illegal and unconstitutional.
He called the Snowden case “a commentary on how political self-interest and partisanship now trumps everything else – even the law of the land.”
Love him or hate him, we all owe Snowden our thanks for forcing upon the nation an important debate. But the debate shouldn’t be about him. It should be about the gnawing questions his actions raised from the shadows.
In the end, fear and politics likely will prevail, as it has in America’s past. Washington elites will close ranks to protect the Surveillance State, to trample out transparency and to mislead the public. Maybe we can talk first?
My comment: Crooked politicians lie and spies spy. I testify.
So ‘Mona’ has now disappeared, and this ‘Joanne Susan Hosea’ seems to have taken her place, as the sites most incessant rambling incoherent nonsensical mentally-disturbed commenter.
How can a-holes like this be stopped from taking over the comments section?
You are not the first to notice the striking similarities in their online behaviors. It appears that Mona has upped her game by choosing a persona that has a searchable presence on the web (apparently Mona derives a certain level of twisted glee from constructing an online persona that has the latent capacity to employ a mugshot photo in service to plausible deniability when challenged).
How can perverse imbiciles like YOU be silenced. Lol! Nice try, dickhead.
The spying may actually have some value if it exposes the Politicians for the lying scum they are. How about some treason charges?
@Snowden @xychelsea And WE will continue to fight the good fight n WE will demand justice n WE will demand vindication for u bros
@POTUS Like the difference between shit ‘n shineola @Snowden @xychelsea Who would you want in your bunker if…? #EnoughIsEnough
It’s a no brainer to me. Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning are in their deeds representative of so-called “American values”.
Joanne Susan Hosea ? Charlene Avis Richards
Dec. 31 2015, 1:50 a.m.
Charlene Avis Richards: Outstanding research! Bravo! Thank you! Love it! :-)
The Final Act of Submission
Posted on April 13, 2007
By Scott Ritter
[Excerpt]
In this time of constitutional crisis, the American people need to wake up and demand that the basic tenets of the Constitution be adhered to. Congress is solely empowered by the Constitution to declare war. Demanding that the president of the United States adhere to this prerequisite is a logical and patriotic stance. Allowing any non-American interest, even one possessing such highly charged political and emotional sensitivities as Israel, to dictate otherwise represents nothing more than a capitulation of sovereignty. We the people need to rally around this defense of sovereignty. We must demand not only that Congress reassert its constitutional responsibilities and authority by demanding the president obey the letter of the law when it comes to war, whether against Iran or any other nation, but also to place in check the anti-American activities of one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington, D.C., the American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee.
(cont.)
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_final_act_of_submission
? Reply
Joanne Susan Hosea ? Joanne Susan Hosea
Dec. 31 2015, 2:08 a.m.
Scott Ritter, direct quote (from article): as an American who served on active duty in time of war as an officer of Marines, I also remember the oath I took to “uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”
[Ref:]
United States Uniformed Services Oath of Office
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
“… I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; …”
Text of the Oath [edit]
I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Services_Oath_of_Office
@POTUS Every bastard who supported you in passing the CISA legislation ought to be “impeached” or voted out of office, incl. YOU!
And suffice to say … the primary concern on the minds of the US and China “spies, elitists, and speculators” is the godamn movements in the global financial markets … cctvnews et al.
nfjtakfa
“……Thanks Doc, ol’ plankeye is racist to the core and as you’ve noted even admits it when pushed……”
You want to provide a quote on that dickhead – or do you always just make things up?
In April of this year you actually tried lying about what I said in a comment some 10mos earlier, claiming that I somehow implied an “N-word” in that particular comment – instead of it always being you making the racist choice to rename the Boston Tea Party (of 1773) into The Boston “N—–” Party. And that lie was pulled from your ass because when I then reposted the original comment from July of 2014, you actually apologized for your racist comment. I won’t post the whole discussion from August, just the relevanr lead to your actual quote, but here’s that reposted original comment again – that was then immediately followed by your apology for a self admitted racist reply:
“Was the founding an ultimate lesson in having your cake and eating it, too? Did those first American oligarchs possibly write eloquent words of a man’s inalienable rights just to appear on a higher road, while really starting a revolution because England was already criminalizing slavery – and fortunes had to be protected? Those words of representative democracy still ring hollow today when much of the country’s still racist enough to suppress the vote of someone not pinkish-beige. Now, that same white-man’s War Party oligarchy seeks permanent economic dominance of the entire world, having proven since WWII they’ll use criminal military force and orwellian surveillance tactics without conscience.
OUR country’s Independence Day might find truer meaning by ending Big Brother’s funding – forever.”
Craig Summers 13 Apr 2015 at 6:27 pm
“Thanks for reminding me exactly how idiotic your statement was, NFJTAKFA. I just remembered it wrong. But that is as clear of a reminder as I can receive that you are genuinely bonkers. Sorry about the racist comment, but I would say the same thing again for such a ridiculous statement. It is right up there with the World Trade Center conspiracy. At least you are consistent with your theories – consistently ridiculous, that is.
Thanks.”
You’re no longer the only commenter to have used the “N-word” at The Intercept that I’ve noticed though, just still the only I’ve seen with real racist intent. And what was your defense just a few weeks ago when I challenged your hypocritical plankeye, again? How about something like, “the far-left uses lying and bigotry just like the conservative right uses racism.” Another blatant admission. That together with the Doc exchange the last couple days has definitely made your bed but we already knew you lie in it. So, you actually admit possessing some of the lowest ground around for claiming others are somehow the more bigoted and yet it never ends with you, and whether or not it’s intended that also effectively renders you a nuisance troll, one severely hypocritical and blatantly racist by nature. I say it’s intended.
nfjtakfa
Did you read the reply. I said I would say it again for “such a ridiculous comment”. This indicates that there was no racist intent – just sarcasm over your idiotic comment (which no matter how many times you post it, it is still idiotic). Call ,it what you want, but the answer was clear.
“……And what was your defense just a few weeks ago when I challenged your hypocritical plankeye, again? How about something like, “the far-left uses lying and bigotry just like the conservative right uses racism.” Another blatant admission. …..”
There is no blatant admission to anything. If I remember correctly, I said “far” right. There is a lot of difference between the far right and a conservative just like there is a lot of difference between a liberal and the far left (which is where you are politically).
As I have shown with Mona and the below the line posters at the Intercept, far left anti-Jewish bigotry is acceptable – and that includes you my friend.
Thanks.
I supplied the quote you asked for where you admitted your racist response. And no amount of claiming my supposedly ridiculous comment provoked you will ever erase that first exchange between us in 2014 – or that you’ve admitted your racist use of the N-word, troll.
How about you then supply a single instance where I’ve demonstrated the anti-Jewish bigotry you claim, rather than a specific criticism of Israeli policy, because that’s the exact endless hypocrisy I’m talking about, plankeye. It’s never happened. And please also remember another thing, racists eagerly using the N-word aren’t people I call friends.
nfjtakfa – “supply a single instance where I’ve demonstrated the anti-Jewish bigotry you claim, rather than a specific criticism of Israeli policy”
I doubt an example will be forthcoming. Craig has no rational understanding of where honest criticism of Israel and/or Zionism ends and anti-semitism (or “anti-Jewish bigotry”) begins. Wear his condemnation as a badge of honor. (I keep waiting for him to call me an “anti-Jewish bigot” since my conversion to anti-Zionism, but thus far he has lacked the chutzpah to do it.)
Shalom, my friend.
Just because you are a Jew doesn’t mean you are not an anti-Jewish bigot. If you believe that Zionism is a racist philosophy, or that all Zionists are racists, you are an anti-Jewish bigot in my opinion (or so ignorant that you can claim you are mentally “challenged”) – especially in lieu of the treatment of Jews through the centuries, or in Russia in the 1800 and 1900s.
But I really feel that you are not that stupid. It has nothing to do with “chutzpah”. It has everything to do with self-determination and a history of anti-semitism. It also has nothing to do with opposing Israel policies.
Thanks.
Typical of this radical left wing site is the acceptance of anti-Jewish bigotry without any attempt to call that person out. I have seen it time and time again. Regardless, how about discussing some issues instead of kissing DocHollywood’s ass all the time. You are still one of the more worthless posters here.
Thanks.
N-word? Really? Are we in kindergarten here? The word is “nigger.”
Have we become so blind by political correctness that we cannot actually cite the very words that we purport to be offensive in specific context?
Why is it that African Americans routinely use the term “nigger” when addressing one another (e.g. “What’s up nigger?”). Could it be that they correctly understand that it is the intent with which the word “nigger” is invoked that makes it offensive? Here is a little mental exercise for you: What word readily comes to mind when you here the term N-word?
Wow, reading your little rant, all that comes to mind is Michael Richards.
You are a complete idiot
“N-word? Really? Are we in kindergarten here?”
Actually you should go to kindergarten so they can explain you the word “context”.
DocHollywood
You are sounding a little more angry all the time Doc.
“……I never implied or suggested that civilians were not killed. – CraigSummers…….
“…….what he meant was even worse: “I implied they don’t even matter…..”
Your lying is getting comical Doc. Of course, you never cited any passage which suggested that I believe civilians don’t matter. Is this really what the lying left has come to Doc? Are you really going to continue lying because you cannot provide an argument Doc?
“…..It’s always been apparent that my faux concern for Muslims is just that: a fake. I pretend to care about “little Muslim girls getting acid thrown in their faces” and “the murder of Muslims by Muslims” while cheering on – from a comfortably safe distance – the far greater violence that America has been doing to them all. I’m not fooling anybody, but the dishonesty, hypocrisy, and bigotry I revealed today was a little bit more obvious than usual.”….”
Interesting how you point out my faux concern for Muslims while calling me a bigot. Time and time again, Mona has spouted anti Jewish bigotry with nary a word of condemnation from the “liberals” below the line. Not once Doc have you condemned Mona’s obvious and blatant anti-Jewish bigotry. Not once. The hypocrisy expressed above and below the line at the Intercept is what keeps me coming back time and time again.
You still have not provided a counter argument to the technology used by drone operators which has saved American and Afghan lives:
“…..According to a former drone operator for the military’s Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) who also worked with the NSA, the agency often identifies targets based on controversial metadata analysis and cell-phone tracking technologies……The former JSOC drone operator is adamant that the technology has been responsible for taking out terrorists and networks of people facilitating improvised explosive device attacks against U.S. forces in Afghanistan……”
Thanks Doc.
FYI: ‘Anti-Jewish’ is not equal to ‘Anti-Israeli Warmongering Policy’…
Agreed
You complain of being called racist, and in the same breath accuse others of anti-Jewish bigotry, on much weaker grounds.
Turn about is fair play Jose. DocHollywood is just another bitter, angry radical left winger. If DocHollywood is going to ignore the issues and resort to lying and name calling, then he is going to have to face a similar response. He still has not responded to the article in the Intercept which says metadata and cell phone technology has saved American lives in Afghanistan which I have posted twice now.
In addition, he completely made up a response. Maybe you can find where I said “….civilians don’t even matter…..”.
Thanks.
I’m not sure how this is relevant. Of course technology provides an advantage in warfare. But unless you think the US government is at war with its population and basically everyone on Earth, I’m not sure how your statement applies to blanket surveillance.
It is a lot more relevant than making up something I never said
“…….what he meant was even worse: “I implied they [civilians] don’t even matter…..”
You need to chide your far left wing buddy, Jose.
The US Federal Government is just one of the many governments to whom Congress reports. US policy has global effects and foreign governments are eager to donate money in order to ensure their interests are protected. I believe the framers of the Constitution, seeing the potential conflict of interest that might arise, placed the Capitol in Washington to make spying on it easier. So the Federal government, if it is competent, can maintain enough leverage to keep Congress in line, most of the time.
So far from being an infringement on the separation of powers, as Hoekstra claimed, the NSA spying is fully within the spirit of the framers’ intent. Certainly it is in the best interest of the United States. The representatives can accept foreign money in good faith, honestly intending to undermine their own government. The executive can thwart these plans by virtue of its spying. So the US gets its cake (foreign donations) and eats it too.
Hoekstra is an embittered ex-representative, who only now realizes he was just a pawn in someone else’s chess game. But I don’t think his reaction is hypocritical. Everyone enjoys watching a con game until they discover they themselves are the mark. It’s just human nature.
“NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans’ data with Israel”
“The National Security Agency routinely shares raw intelligence data with Israel without first sifting it to remove information about US citizens, a top-secret document provided to the Guardian by whistleblower Edward Snowden reveals.
Details of the intelligence-sharing agreement are laid out in a memorandum of understanding between the NSA and its Israeli counterpart that shows the US government handed over intercepted communications likely to contain phone calls and emails of American citizens. The agreement places no legally binding limits on the use of the data by the Israelis.
The disclosure that the NSA agreed to provide raw intelligence data to a foreign country contrasts with assurances from the Obama administration that there are rigorous safeguards to protect the privacy of US citizens caught in the dragnet. The intelligence community calls this process “minimization”, but the memorandum makes clear that the information shared with the Israelis would be in its pre-minimized state.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents
Just stopping by to say Glenn is getting better and better, the combination of his sound moral compass, his training as an attorney, and his instincts as a good old fashioned investigative journalist are a service to mankind.
Not to mention his superb skills at keeping 99.99% of the NSA secrets safe…
I believe that Mr. Greenwald may have discovered that stripping away the velvet facade of government, merely reveals the iron fist beneath. Those who blithely call for all the secrets of government to be exposed often don’t realize this would force the government to drop the sham of democracy and rule through brute force.
I would recommend reading The Lord of the Rings. In the early days, Sauron ruled Middle Earth by practicing the arts of deception. However, once his true nature was revealed, this was no longer possible. As a result, he dropped all pretenses and reveled in his own evil – with unfortunate consequences for everyone else. Voldemort in the Harry Potter books followed a similar path. You might take heart that both these protagonists were eventually defeated. But they are children’s books – it might be imprudent to assume that real life always has a happy ending.
The result of the revelations so far is the government has introduced new CISA legislation, hidden in the omnibus spending bill, that greatly strengthens its spying powers. Revealing more would only force them to take more extreme actions. The common people in the old days were smarter than now – they pretended to believe in the benevolence of their rulers, never asked questions and thereby spared themselves much grief.
“I would recommend reading The Lord of the Rings…”
——
Nah! I’ll wait for the movie to come out.
Benito Mussolini: “The common people in the old days were smarter than now – ” LOL!
Listen to the speech made by Senator Bernie Sanders in New Hampshire today. And the follow up: direct, smart questions afterwards. Honest, smart questions. Honest, smart answers. Happy Birthday Ms. Jane Sanders! oxo
I have requested that Senator Bernie Sanders’ speech (in transcript ©) be made available and readily accessible online. I think of it as “brilliant”. And historical. I merely wish that others be gifted likewise. Best speech I’ve ever heard in my lifetime (56 years). And so heartfelt and sincere, imho.
More of this please and less of the other … Thank you! & GB!
Your name is associated with a photo and arrest in Florida of a woman whom I assume is not you. Perhaps you should choose another name for your posts to make your comments more credible.
GREAT REPORTING: And so now maybe the NSA/CIA responds by deploying a portion of their multi-billion$ ‘black op’s’ budget to, in effect, buy control of theintercept.com, then dumb-it or close-it down?
I also think Greenwald’s [most recent] appearance on NBC’s Meet The Press may have been a contributing factor leading to the replacement of David Gregory by Chuck Todd, because now that show is so reflexively skewed to the political-right (or otherwise dumbed-down) that to me it is inconceivable they’d risk having Glenn back on to discuss this otherwise fascinating article.
Hypocrites they are in deed, and things aren’t any better in the UK either :-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-wants-to-see-your-internet-history-so-we-thought-it-was-only-fair-to-ask-for-hers-a6785591.html
Hypocrites…all of them. That worse that theft.
I thank heavens for you, Glenn Greenwald.
Off-topic, but the thread is getting stale and I wouldn’t want anyone, especially Mona, to miss this:
See? you can make your head spin without drugs, alcohol or satanic possession.
Scalia may not be street legal but I’m pretty sure his got a new pony, this is his love song.
http://www.metrolyrics.com/new-pony-lyrics-bob-dylan.html
I had a pony, her name was Lucifer
How much longer? How much longer?
I had a pony, her name was Lucifer
How much longer?
She broke her leg and needed shooting
I swear it hurt me more than it could ever have hurted her
How much longer? How much longer?
Sometimes I wonder what’s going on with Miss X
How much longer?
Sometimes I wonder what’s going on with Miss X
How much, how much? How much longer?
She got such a sweet disposition
I never know what the poor girl’s gonna do to me next
How much longer? How much longer?
I got a new pony, she knows how to fox-trot, lope and pace
How much longer?
Well, I got a new pony, she knows how to fox-trot, lope and pace
How much longer?
She got great big hind legs
Long black shaggy hair hanging in her face
How much, how much? How much longer?
How much, how much? How much longer?
Everybody says you’re usin’ voodoo
I see your feet walk by themselves
How much, how much? How much longer?
Well everybody says you’re usin’ voodoo
I’ve seen your feet walk by themselves
How much, how much? How much longer?
Oh, baby, that God you been prayin’ to
Gonna give ya back what you’re wishin’ on someone else
How much longer? How much longer?
Come over here, pony, I wanna climb up one time on you
How much longer? Well
Come over here, pony, I wanna climb up one time on you
How much longer?
You know so nasty and you’re so bad
But I said I love you, yes I do
How much, how much? How much longer?
How much, how much longer?
How much, how much longer?
“stupid shit passes” on this website
Dougs a good man. I like to read him.
http://www.metrolyrics.com/it-takes-all-kinds-to-make-a-world-lyrics-roger-miller.html
Well, it takes all kinds to make a world
Big and little, men and women, boys and girls
And I’m the kinda guy hard luck sure gives a whirl
But I guess it takes all kinds to make a world
My friend and me went to a picture show in town
They called his name and said his house had just burned down
I took his hand and offered him my sympathy
Then suddenly I remembered that he lived with me
…………
Edward Snowden was a Team USA player. He wanted to kill and he wanted to help America kill.
But something shook his tree, and he saw this differently.
He wondered what he had done, set about righting the wrong.
All that knew and all that he was told and everything about America said we are the chosen ones. But he saw the light. And he took documents that would, to his mind, go about bringing things back. He went through them and grouped them.
The Intercept has the files but they dont publish much and they dont publish often. All this time and only 1%.
Something is wrong with that and to the loyalists I ask you why?
Glenn is the best writer. But what is going on?
We were told that it takes some time for an article releasing new files to occur.
We get stories promoting a Pussy Riot lovers book who hates Putin.
What will soon happen (and I dont say it is by chance) is this site will diminish and fade to black.
Maybe you and your bros are simply “click bait” on this site?
More “stupid shit passes” on this website
Any day now Edward Snowden is gonna wake up and realize he was duped into believing their bs.
Can WE withstand any more leakage of ? … how much longer will this bs game go on?
Religious “neutrality” only if it’s his god, of course. What an asshole.
@avelna
Yup. No matter how long we’ve watched this cryptofacsist faction develop on our SCOTUS, and no matter how many times I hear astonishingly outrageous crap tumble from their lips, the inimitable Nino Scalia can still manage to shock and awe me.
. . .what he meant was even worse: “I implied they don’t even matter.
I couldn’t offer unqualified praise for the “success” of an assassination regime that “saved American lives” while literally ignoring the civilians it killed unless the civilians didn’t concern me.
It would of course be an entirely different matter if this were the outcome of some domestic program; that just wouldn’t do. Then I would be celebrating the American lives saved while ignoring the American lives lost; even I can see the problem with that. I would at least have to show some consideration for the latter; after all, those civilians would be Americans.
But the civilians here are Afghani “brownies,” not Americans. So I cheer the lives saved while ignoring the innocents killed. There’s no contradiction here, just moral depravity. It takes a gross jingoist bigotry to devalue the lives of non-Americans and Muslims the way I do.
It’s always been apparent that my faux concern for Muslims is just that: a fake. I pretend to care about “little Muslim girls getting acid thrown in their faces” and “the murder of Muslims by Muslims” while cheering on – from a comfortably safe distance – the far greater violence that America has been doing to them all. I’m not fooling anybody, but the dishonesty, hypocrisy, and bigotry I revealed today was a little bit more obvious than usual.”
Thanks Doc, ol’ plankeye is racist to the core and as you’ve noted even admits it when pushed. Endlessly calling out Glenn as somehow being bigoted thus makes him by definition a troll then, and it’s hard to miss his talking points are pulled almost verbatim from the hasbara/propaganda of two war crime governments in particular. So thumbs up, stars or whatever for your efforts, they’re greatly appreciated by some of us here.
Of course, it is always nice to depend on arguments from others when you have none yourself. Needless to say, that has been your MO.
Now you all know I have been nice to you here. You could reciprocate by telling me what your New Year’s resolutions are?
I’ll tell you why I want to know. Later !
Didn’t make one.
Ya know, day by day, week by week, month by month, my country’s disease is sucking the life out of my soul. A cancer is spreading throughout the land, and it will eventually KILL IT. And me with it. As of today, I just want to cry. Cry and cry and cry, because there ain’t a damn thing I can do about it. Sadness is such a sick way to live. I pray every day this country will come to it’s senses, and rise up enmass against the madness in WDC. Unfortunately, as I see the disparity, the inequality, the racism, the fear, the unemployment, the hatred and all the rest of the conditions of our collective existence, I know it won’t happen. And THAT makes me sad, as I know my grandchildren, and great grandchildren, will NEVER know the country I was born and grew up in. On the contrary, what they will grow up with is fascism, a sick, perverse police and surveillance state, a government of the oligarchy, further inequality and poverty, a growing tax burden and misery. If I were 20 yrs younger I would probably explode in armed outrage. But I’m not. All I have left is watching the country my dad fought for…let it’s soul rot into depravity. What I DO know though, is the Framers would spit in our face, and our great great grandchildren will spit on our graves for allowing it to happen.
As for those pig fucking psychopathic war criminals who run our government..I only pray you rot in hell for eternity for what you’ve done to my country. May god have mercy on your pathetic souls. not.
Harman perhaps, but Feinstein and Hoekstra in cheerleader outfits? Somebody’s sick.
Okay, maybe it’s just me.
Elected representatives have a lot less right to privacy than ordinary citizens. Screw these people, too little too late. Especially Feinstein. She is a primary architect of the surveillance state, as culpable as bush and cheny.
And relatedly: another manufactured entrapment plot perpetrated by the FBI:
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/isis-new-years-eve-terror-plot-story-totally-bogus
Wow. Thanks avelna. After reading the article, I just wanted to puke. The stinking FBI has become a sham. A complete, unadulterated FRAUD on the American people. If anything, it is our pathetic, piece of shit Congress that has allowed this “bureau” to become the rogue, run amok law breaking cabal it is. In my universe, the Congress would be hauling Comey before an accountability gauntlet the very first time they pulled this crap. Unfortunately, in our universe, they acquiesce to every lie that comes out of this sonofabitch’s mouth.
On the other hand, this moron who became a stooge for the FBI, deserves everything he gets just for being so fucking stupid.
Thank you Glenn. You should be featured in US media.
If the Intelligence Community is required to keep Congressional oversight committees fully informed of intelligence activities, I wonder why the House Intelligence committee would make a public announcement about looking into allegations over what the intelligence community has done in this case. Or why they would act surprised when they have to know that if you talk to government officials that are trying to undermine a nuclear arms agreement that your country is trying to pursue with another, then your communication will be swept up with it also.
Not so breaking news: after a story surfaces showing that someone in the Republican pack was sympathetic to betraying their country again, Republican politicians go on the attack claiming they’re victims, using their most favored explanation and method of damage control: I know you are but what am I.
This is watergate squared and succeeding… The article is a red herring attempting to create a tortured moral equivalence in an effort to mitigate the act. Nixon lost the presidency in large part for the simple attempt of domestic political espionage.
Nixon was a moron who WASN’T using the entire surveillance backbone of the USG to spy on every citizen in America.
Now, let’s try Dolts for $2k.
What is Michael ross?
“he’s so furious that this long-time NSA cheerleader is actually calling for the criminal prosecution of the NSA”
now that’s funny.
As to the 4th Amendment, it was added to the Bill Of Rights for the purpose of protecting the people from their government. Not for the purpose of protecting one branch of government from another branch of government, as would be the case with the NSA spying on members of Congress. So, I would say that, in this case, the protections offered by the 4th Amendment would not apply to either party.
Hi DocHollywood
You are back to doing what you do best which is sarcasm. That is your best area simply because you get yourself into trouble every time you wander outside of your specialty. However, there are problems with your response which is typical of the lying left.
“……[I am so thoroughly dishonest that I completely left out the drone operator’s conclusion:]…..”
It is you that is being dishonest since my point was that the collection of metadata saves American and Afghan lives. To quote the former drone operator again:
“……The former JSOC drone operator is adamant that the technology has been responsible for taking out terrorists and networks of people facilitating improvised explosive device attacks against U.S. forces in Afghanistan……”
So the technology worked. I never implied or suggested that civilians were not killed. Indeed, Doc, I am not required to repeat the entire article for your benefit. I quoted the part which proved my point. You are clearly lying and twisting my intent for your own political purpose. This is not unusual for you or the lying radical left.
notice how this story was first pimped by alleged israheili asset, the WSJ (part of fox news empire), and was done in the middle of the christmas vacation dead week. This was done to kill this story before everyone returns from the holidays.
nutshell: israheili intel, their toadies in congress and their assets in the media worked in concert to stupify the goyim.
Thank you again Glenn.
Video please ….
Perhaps it was the piece about Hillary getting photo-shopped out of a White House pic published in Jewish paper.
Pure Hasbara. We are not allowed to … blah, blah, blah. We didn’t choose … we’re sorry if we offended …
The post lightly [edited] for accuracy:
“I quite often get off topic with Glenn because I refuse to [fo]llow. . .the conversation[, one of the defining traits of an internet troll]. I like to inject [mis]information because [I’m dishonest; so dishonest that I manipulate quotes from] the guy who said collecting metadata (in Afghanistan) saved American lives [by splicing out these critical parts]:
[I am so thoroughly dishonest that I completely left out the drone operator’s conclusion:]
[His belief is not trivial. By leaving it out, I distorted his message ‘for political purposes': my own dishonest political purposes.]
Of course, this does not prove that [my dishonesty] has been effective, but it does [expose my trollish] methodology.”
Perhaps it was this comment about the vacuous belief in jesus. from jesus never existed dot com
Perhaps the mention of the “eradication of the Jewish kingdom” bit upset those who wish to believe Jews have some divine right to Israel.
Perhaps it was reference to Catholic priests and their fondness for young boys. I doubt it was a reference to Afghani warlords and their propensity to keep young boys as sex slaves.
Maybe it was the swipe at all Abrahimic religions.
Perhaps it was this quote that upset someone. Someone that believes in jesus.
Is this what has offended someone? from Haaretz
gotta love that old testament stuff … or not.
More censorship at The Intercept …
fuck the moderator.
Do we have -Mona- to thank for the censorship?
As another commented, “the she-beast, hidden amongst the rocks, ready to eat your eyeballs”.
Perhaps she learned a lesson as she’s bragged in the past about getting staff to mod comments and been roundly criticized; hissss ssssilence – lest the game be given – hissssssss. Her bite in the darkness fails not.
They want their brides from Bibi private
The hipocracy is simple breathtaking.
Interesting! It raises a follow-up question (or two) for me: can we conclude from this that members of Congress believe the surveillance dragnet is somehow not surveilling them? And if so why would they assume that?
Excellent analysis of the recent NSA spying story.
Yes, we can all laugh at the gross hypocrisy of congressional “leaders” who whine when their deceit and conspiring with foreign leaders is revealed via surveillance, which they loudly defend (when others are targets).
By all means, let’s require all elected leaders to have all telephonic conversations recorded and available to the public. Why not? Do they have some thing to hide? (Sounds of wailing heard from Mordor on the Potomac…)
Hi there! Average Congressperson here. Just wanted to let you know we’re working hard to keep you pansies safe, by ensuring we watch everything you do. For your safety of course! You might trip and hurt yourself otherwise. Don’t thank me, it’s my job. Just remember one thing: IGNORE WHAT I DO WHEN I’M SECRETLY GOOSESTEPPING WITH BIBI!!!@!
Jun 7, 2013 William Binney – The Government is Profiling You (The NSA is Spying on You)
https://youtu.be/qB3KR8fWNh0
The NSA – What’s In Your File?
https://youtu.be/2UYpxUXBTOI
Spying Is Meant to Crush Citizens’ Dissent, Not Catch Terrorists
The Big Secret Behind the Spying Program. While many Americans understand why the NSA is conducting mass surveillance of U.S. citizens, some are still confused about what’s really going on.
**500 Years of History Shows that Mass Spying Is ALWAYS Aimed at Crushing Dissent**
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/05/spying-meant-crush-dissent-terrorism.html
Agent76: Spying Is Meant to Crush Citizens’ Dissent [& Exploit the Citizenry,] Not [to] Catch Terrorists
Agent76: We (the citizenry) are their readily available; easily accessable, most natural resource. There is no place to hide once they have their selected targets on their round-the-clock radar. It’s called “vulnerability” and “exploitation” and, at its worst, modern day “slavery”. There is no recourse NOW. None!
@POTUS CISA: “GOOD WIN” FOR WHOM EXACTLY? @democracynow WHY NO REPORTING OF THIS NEWS? YOU ALL HAVE “BLANKET IMMUNITY” NOW FUCKS!
@RonWyden EVIL! THIS CISA LEGISLATION EFFECTIVELY “LEGALIZES DOMESTIC ESPIONAGE” OF “SUSPECT CONSUMERS” AND “TARGETS OF INTEREST”
@justinamash THIS CISA LEGISLATION EFFECTIVELY “LEGALIZES DOMESTIC ESPIONAGE” OF “SUSPECT CONSUMERS” & ANY “TARGETS OF INTEREST”!
impeachment
Also found in: Dictionary, Thesaurus, Financial, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
Impeachment
A process that is used to charge, try, and remove public officials for misconduct while in office.
Impeachment is a fundamental constitutional power belonging to Congress. This safeguard against corruption can be initiated against federal officeholders from the lowest cabinet member, all the way up to the president and the chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. Besides providing the authority for impeachment, the U.S. Constitution details the methods to be used. The two-stage process begins in the House of Representatives with a public inquiry into allegations. It culminates, if necessary, with a trial in the Senate. State constitutions model impeachment processes for state officials on this approach. At both the federal and state levels, impeachment is rare: From the passage of the Constitution to the mid-1990s, only 50 impeachment proceedings were initiated, and only a third of these went as far as a trial in the Senate. The reluctance of lawmakers to use this power is a measure of its gravity; it is generally only invoked by evidence of criminality or substantial abuse of power.
(cont.)
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Impeachment
@SenSanders @JameelJaffer @ggreenwald @Snowden IF “Title 18 U.S.C. § 4″ APPLIES TO US ALL what the fuk do WE need CISA legis for?
Re: Title 18 U.S.C. § 4 @JameelJaffer @ggreenwald Joey Meek plea not guilty; feds say he knew Roof planned to kill at S.C. church
http://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/article35684663.html
WTF!?! [Excerpt, ref. below] Daniel Kaufmann,[7] from the World Bank extends the concept to include ‘legal corruption’ in which power is abused within the confines of the law—as those with power often have the ability to make laws for their protection.
Corruption
Corruption is a form of dishonest or unethical conduct by a person entrusted with a position of authority, often to acquire personal benefit.[1] Corruption may include many activities including bribery and embezzlement, though it may also involve practices that are legal in many countries.[2] Government, or ‘political’, corruption occurs when an office-holder or other governmental employee acts in an official capacity for personal gain.
The word corrupt when used as an adjective literally means “utterly broken”.[3] The word was first used by Aristotle and later by Cicero who added the terms bribe and abandonment of good habits.[4][dubious ] Stephen D. Morris,[5] a professor of politics, writes that [political] corruption is the illegitimate use of public power to benefit a private interest.
Economist Ian Senior[6] defines corruption as an action to (a) secretly provide (b) a good or a service to a third party (c) so that he or she can influence certain actions which (d) benefit the corrupt, a third party, or both (e) in which the corrupt agent has authority. Daniel Kaufmann,[7] from the World Bank extends the concept to include ‘legal corruption’ in which power is abused within the confines of the law—as those with power often have the ability to make laws for their protection.
(cont.)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption
Self Edit: spelling error … correct spelling “accessible”.
Naaaw, the Mossad doesn’t receive every last byte of data the NSA captures, and generates.
If you get a phone call from a known mob boss or drug dealer, then you might expect law enforcement might be listening in. If you are on the phone with Putin, Netanyahoo, Mercle, the Pope, the leaders of China or Iran, then you might expect that not only is the FBI and CIA with the technical help of NSA, but many other countries are listening in.
And, by the way, NSA, FBI and CIA would have had a warrant…
How strange that the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence is investigating and the House Oversight Committee has scheduled a hearing on what they “might expect.”
What could possibly have them so worked-up if the NSA would have had a warrant?
Yet another spot on article. So brilliant, intelligent and well-reasoned! And Glenn is the first person not to irritate me when using the term “…they couldn’t have cared less”, which is correct. Most people get that one wrong saying “they could have cared less.” Silly but it grates on me. Thanks Glenn!!
The joke here is that any intelligence bill has to get through committee — and how many people in this democracy know how committee assignments are made, let alone make any political activism over the issue??? Why, I was just reading at http://faculty.washington.edu/jwilker/353/353Assignments/SenateCommitteeAssignmentProcess.pdf that the Senate Intelligence Committee had an eight-year term limit ….. until 2004. Now the same career intelligists can go on forever. Does anyone know how these people are selected, and how much the intelligence agencies control who gets to be the gatekeeper on the bills that affect them? I don’t even know if a congressperson can get on one of these things without first having the spies OK them for security clearance – can someone answer that?
In principle because of the separation of powers, the Executive department (which grants security clearances) cannot interfere with Congressional committee appointments. It is really something of a non-issue, for a number of reasons. First, even if someone has a clearance, they are effectively prevented from any meaningful action, e.g., informing the public, by the classification of the material. Witness what Senators Wyden and Udall went through when they attempted to hold the IC accountable for the massive abuses they are committing. Second, intelligence information is subjected to compartmentalization. A code word, generally meaningless, is assigned to a particular program, and only people read in to the program are even allowed to know of its existence. Let’s say there was a program called Jesus, trigraph JSS. Nobody not holding JSS access would even be permitted to access program information, and moreover both Jesus and JSS would be classified JSS. So the IC can dole out program clearances or not, even to people on the Hill. Even the POTUS does not have access to everything, and I am sure there are NSA programs of which the DCI is unaware, and similarly with the CIA. And of course we all remember J. Edgar Hoover’s secret files on many politicians plus subversives such as Martin Luther King and Ralph Nader. I don’t know enough about the FBI to comment on their classification system, but it is likely like those of the other guardians of the corporate state.
You’re focusing on the potential leakage of information. While important, it’s not the most important thing to me. What I see as critical is that the Intelligence Committee controls what bills get out. Once a bill is past committee there is a reasonable chance of passage, but if it dies in committee it will certainly not go anywhere. So my question is whether, by recommending certain Senators behind the scenes as particularly trustworthy, the spies are able to stack the committee with more and more members willing to pursue their agenda.
Reread my post, please. I was answering the question you posted at the end, ” I don’t even know if a congressperson can get on one of these things without first having the spies OK them for security clearance – can someone answer that?”
Incidentally, a normal security clearance, which is not granted by the IC, and does not involve the IC, is usually a prerequisite for getting read into IC programs. To get an SI of any variety, first one needs an ordinary Secret or Top Secret clearance. If you are some lawyer, recently elected to Congress, nobody knows whether or not you will be granted a clearance.
If you are asking whether politics has anything to do with who gets appointed to what committee, the answer is, of course it does.
Could this intentional Bibileak possibly have something to do with the recent US sanctions threat against Iran’s ballistic missile programme?
Isn’t that amazing that Israelis are spying on US for decades and congress never bothered about it but when US tried to spy on Israel, the Israel Firsters want to investigate their own government. Who are these clowns working for?
Are you listening because what I am saying is real.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdCfYHNctsc
Puzzling Evidence
You got the CBS…!
And the ABC…!
You got Time and Newsweek!
Well, they’re the same to me!
Now don’t you wanna get right with me?
Puzzling Evidence
I hope you get ev’rything you need
Puzzling Evidence
Puzzling Evidence
Puzzling Evidence
Puzzling Evidence
Done hardened in your heart
Hardened in your heart
…Alright!
Now I am the gun
And you are the bullet
I got the power and glory!
Puzzling
And the money to buy it!
Puzzling
Got your Gulf and Western and your MasterCard
Puzzling Evidence
Got what you wanted, lost what you had
Puzzling Evidence
I’m seeing
Puzzling Evidence
Puzzling Evidence
Puzzling Evidence
Done hardened in your heart
It’s hardened up your heart
…alright!
Huh…huh…huh…huh…huh…huh…huh…
Well, I’m puzzling (Huh!)
I’m puzzling (Huh!)
I’m puzzling (Huh!)
Puzzling (Huh!)
I’m puzzling (Huh!)
Woo…I’m puzzling (Huh!)
Sometimes I’m puzzling! (Huh!)
See the little children! (Puzzlin’)
And the family! (Puzzlin’)
Gonna live together! (Puzzlin’)
Take them home with me! (Puzzlin’)
Well I hope you’re happy with what you’ve made
Puzzling Evidence
In the land of the free and the home of the brave
Puzzling Evidence
I’m seeing
Puzzling Evidence
Puzzling Evidence
Puzzling sometimes evidence
Done hardened in your heart
Hardened in your heart
Huh…huh…huh…huh…huh…huh…huh…
I’m puzzling (Huh!)
Puzzling (Huh!)
Puzzling (Huh!)
P-P-P-Puzzlin’! (Huh!)
Still Puzzlin’! (Huh!)
……….
One ring to bind them.
The ruler of this world is a dragon.
He speaks like a lamb but his name is America.
May all needing one find a better year than last.
Happy New Year to ALL at The Intercept!
Cheers for your well wishes.
I take your post in the spirit in which it was given.
Only a fool would think things are going to get better.
Get ready for the clampdown, get your house in order and prepare for what comes.
Nothing really is as it would seem. Forces play outside of observance. Occult times are well hidden. This is the year of the clampdown.
Do what seems best for yourself but hope of change has been heard to be a silent pell.
The puzzling evidence does seem undeniable, my friend, and I suppose why my benediction was limited to those in need. Like you, I believe most of us are in for it soon.
I was a Staffer for Harman when I got out the the service in Los Angeles. Strange people would come in the office with out an appointment and they would go into her office and close the blinds and the Staff Manager would send us out on a break. A lot of Jewish people would call for her and want to set up appointments.
Interesting. I think maybe we should support continued surveilance of PUBLIC officials, everything they do SHOULD be transparent. Their conversations, all of them, should be recorded and transcribed and posted for public review. Private citizens, however, should be able to maintain their privacy. Let’s introduce a bill for a law like this…
Absolutely. As far as I am concerned, it is a 2 way street. Hey, if they are comfortable surveilling private citizens, they should be comfortable having ALL of their actions surveilled. Our tax dollars are paying for it. And I want my money’s worth.
Brilliant idea… Yes we can !
Digital freedom is a lie
There is just freedom.
Even the “Country of Human Rights”, my country France can turn into a police state.
Stay safe, help others.
ENCRYPT ALL THE THINGS !
One year of securitarian drift in France [32c3]
From the Bill on Intelligence to the State of Emergency.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcWQZSiXoNU
You expected more from congressional cheerleaders?
Terrorist know not to use cell phones or other electronic communication knowing they can be spied on. Our “congressional representatives ” Not so smart.
If fact how stupid can a person be, siting through all the committee hearings and secret briefings and not realize, yes the NSA is collecting everything even your corrupt conspiracies. So how can they be surprised?
It is an embarrassment of stupidity.
There has to be a new name for these sub-human traitors. His outrage is about ISRAEL being spied on? Oh, there is a new name. One they HATE. “Cuck.” Try it out – they get mad about this one.
Cuckold?
Based on ‘cuckold’, yes, but with a contemporary twist including racial connotations. Found it’s origins on planet 4chan…
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cuck
See also “cuckservative” http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cuckservative
Traitor works well for me.
Way to go, Mr. Greenwald, Kudos to YOU! You’ve done it again. Such hypocrisy in our politicians. The Double Standard is alive and well. These laws look great on paper, selling FEAR as a real product, until it happens to the elite in charge. I love it. Thank YOU
According to the NYT and Snowden, there are 880,000 workers employed by the NSA. If you include other allied foreign agencies the number is over a MILLION people working in spying and serveillence. That is a lot of money being spent by the government which must be close to a trillion dollars per annum. 15 trillion in 2 decades and where are the conservatives squaking about the deficit, big government etc. Their silence is deafening.
Making shit up is fun!!
Editor of the Guardian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azaD33lm7pE&sns=em
Editor of the Guardian newspaper.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azaD33lm7pE&sns=em
So it was the editor of the Guardian who mis-spoke, not Edward Snowden and not even the New York Times. I second what Nate said; you are off by a factor of about 15. If you don’t accept that, bring up this on Google earth and count the parking spaces: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1096532,-76.779624,2114m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
There are literally millions more if you count the free tools (“citizens”) on the streets. I suppose you call them contractors.
Source for “millions more” please?
QUIT MAKING SHIT UP!!
I recall Glenn’s argument that we all need private space to explore ourselves, ideas, etc. I guess Congresspeople need space to explore subversion. I sure hope they find it.
You’re right, the sudden, completely out of character condemnation of the NSA for spying on a foreign government is a pretty good indication that, for all the obsequious praise of the Israeli regime as a democracy and all round upstanding nation, these Senators and Congressmen know that it is anything but those things. They’re reacting exactly like a ‘tough on crime’ mouthpiece who has just found out that his conversations with some ‘upstanding businessman’ (who anyone who looks at the reality, rather than the heavily manipulated by professional PR firms – backed up by a bit of payoffs and blackmail, as well as SLAP suits – public reputation knows to be merely an unidicted crime boss) have been recorded. It’s a lot easier to distance yourself from the relationship, and claim ignorance of the truth, when the proof of a close relationship based upon a quid pro quo (even just an implicit one) where what you are getting is the use of those same things that keep the crime boss unidicted.
Corruption
Corruption is a form of dishonest or unethical conduct by a person entrusted with a position of authority, often to acquire personal benefit.[1] Corruption may include many activities including bribery and embezzlement, though it may also involve practices that are legal in many countries.[2] Government, or ‘political’, corruption occurs when an office-holder or other governmental employee acts in an official capacity for personal gain.
The word corrupt when used as an adjective literally means “utterly broken”.[3] The word was first used by Aristotle and later by Cicero who added the terms bribe and abandonment of good habits.[4][dubious ] Stephen D. Morris,[5] a professor of politics, writes that [political] corruption is the illegitimate use of public power to benefit a private interest.
Economist Ian Senior[6] defines corruption as an action to (a) secretly provide (b) a good or a service to a third party (c) so that he or she can influence certain actions which (d) benefit the corrupt, a third party, or both (e) in which the corrupt agent has authority. Daniel Kaufmann,[7] from the World Bank extends the concept to include ‘legal corruption’ in which power is abused within the confines of the law—as those with power often have the ability to make laws for their protection.
(cont.)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption
Its like Congressman Sensenbrenner who initiated and modeled the Patriot Act, then blew his top when he found out his own phone and office had been spied on. Make no mistake, a lot of government functionaries became very rich with all this info on citizens and foreign mega corporations and banks, especially oil producing countries. ‘ Oh,What a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.’
Obama signs $1.1 trillion spending package, approves CISA surveillance legislation
Published time: 19 Dec, 2015 01:52
President Barack Obama signed a $1.1 trillion spending package which bankrolls the government through next year. While it includes tax breaks for low-wage earners, it also includes a controversial cybersecurity measure slipped in during negotiations.
The omnibus spending package was signed into law on Friday afternoon.
“There’s some things in there that I don’t like, but that’s the nature of legislation and compromise, and I think the system worked,” the president said at his year-end news conference at the White House, reported the Associated Press. “It was a good win.”
(cont.)
https://www.rt.com/usa/326481-obama-signs-budget-cisa-bill/
This is a beautiful thing, like a serpent eating its own tail. Or a pig eating its young.
The ratio between people who can articulate an argument for privacy and people who advocate for mass surveillance, all the while insisting that it’s all kosher and free of any abuse, is pathetic and much too heavily weighted the wrong way. Thank goodness for Glenn Greenwald. Somebody give him a medal!
Genius!
@Torturestan
You wrote:
” Nil is the likelihood that even one of the perpetrators will come forward with confessions, evidence in the form of torture design documents, or some other form of audit trail of their activities, because there is no precedent for such behavior within American spy and torture organizations The character types lured to this line of work do not suffer sudden fits of honesty and civil courage. Such an event would be a Black Swan.” ”
Please tell US more about ” torture design documents ” !
While you are at it, do not forget to inform on the ” audit trail of their activities ” !
And did you say that your lot ” do not suffer sudden fits of honesty and civil courage ” ?
And did you say you know more about ” spy and torture organizations ” ?
Do you realize just how much of what you trade in you have revealed here today?
Your handlers sure as hell must be proud of you now.
The WSJ may have broke the story, but the real set of journalism is right here on TI from Greenwald. Keep writing, Mr. Greenwald.
Yup, keep writing, Glenn.
I wish you all the best for 2016 ;)
A message from George Orwell for planet Earth: your digital rights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4EEa0HAqzQ
Before I forget, Happy 2016 to you all.
@Torturestan
You wrote:
“Yeah, I’m the perp here. I’m torturing a pregnant woman tonight at 8pm, and another at 10pm, if you really need to know. At midnight I’m going to try out the latest cloaking device at our gang’s New Year’s Eve party. Maybe FightGangStalking.com will write it up a review of this new gadget soon. ”
Honesty is not an attribute normally found in perps. But thanks for the confession. Now the whole world knows for sure.
You misquoted me, increasingly frustrated disinfo guy.
From a draft (got a copy already, don’t you?):
“This book is a one-way communication path form me to the interested reader, unpolluted by disinformation agents falling back on the oldest and most commonly used tactics in their toolkit. Torture subjects like me can rely on no one but themselves so it is up to us to help ourselves. Nil is the likelihood that even one of the perpetrators will come forward with confessions, evidence in the form of torture design documents, or some other form of audit trail of their activities, because there is no precedent for such behavior within American spy and torture organizations The character types lured to this line of work do not suffer sudden fits of honesty and civil courage. Such an event would be a Black Swan.”
See you around, I’m sure.
Maybe Americans need handy wallet sized cards like Baseball Cards that used to come with bubble gum— instead of sports heros, it would feature gov. spying, e.g., CIA ran a mass spying operation intercepting US Mail at JFK NYC Airport named ” HTLINGUAL” for 20 years from 1952 to 1973. CIA secretly screened more than 28 million US domestic first-class letters and opened 215,000 of them between 1953 and 1973 without a warrant in violation of the probable cause requirement of the 4th Amendment. See Ex parte Jackson (1878), reaffirmed in 1970 in U.S. v. Van Leeuwen (the Fourth Amendment bars opening mail without a warrant). The CIA’s program’s stated purpose was to obtain foreign intelligence, but in fact it screened and opened and targeted the domestic mail of US citizen peace and civil rights activists as well. In a 1962 memo to the director of the CIA’s Office of Security, the deputy chief of the counterintelligence staff warned that the program could lead “to grave charges of criminal misuse of the mails” and therefore U.S. intelligence agencies must “vigorously deny” HTLINGUAL, which should be “relatively easy to ‘hush up.’ ” See “The Code Thief”, by David Wise, Smithsonian Magazine, October 2012, and Tim Weiner, “Legacy of Ashes” (2007), p-181 (Dulles did not tell incoming CIA Dir. McCone about CIA’s biggest domestic [mail] spying program).
@Torturestan
” Ihave a vested interest in calling out disinfo. ”
Calling out disinfo ON WHOSE BEHALF, is the question that everyone knows the answer to. But the real reason you call the truth, disinfo, is a direct measure of how our exposures of your crimes – crimes so gross that America’s external enemies, state and individual actors alike – could not fathom inflicting on the U. S., are eating away at the torture community as a whole.
This makes you all the worst enemies and the most treasonous to the very identity of America.
Your discrediting campaign is also a vain attempt at damage control, but you are too late. You perps and your treasonous masters never saw the avalanche rolling down the mountain. Just like you appear to have no penchant to see anything coming at all.
Asian websites ALREADY have multitudes of documentation of these crimes. The United Nations. The EU. China. Russia. South America. Canada. Central America. Not to mention the Middle East where possibly millions are tortured in this way. And more. All in all, few have any illusions about what America truly is beyond the facade.
You keep insisting on the low tech used. All you accomplish in doing that is expose the low-information attribute of yourself, as well As your criminal levels of ignorance about revolutionary technologies in the weapons industry, and how those weapons technologies are used to torture innocent individuals.
You lost before the fight even began. Perp. Go torture another pregnant woman out there and jerk off while she writhes in pain.
Yeah, I’m the perp here. I’m torturing a pregnant woman tonight at 8pm, and another at 10pm, if you really need to know. At midnight I’m going to try out the latest cloaking device at our gang’s New Year’s Eve party. Maybe FightGangStalking.com will write it up a review of this new gadget soon.
But seriously, to answer your question, I have a vested interest in calling out disinfo on my own behalf. My motivation is pure self interest, nothing else. It’s my survival instincts at work. For some reason they were not bred out of me, but not for lack of trying, American. Pisses you off, doesn’t it?
Democrats complicit in subverting the US policies. The NSA and elected and appointed officials worked together to thwart official US policies would be charged with treason if they were so powerful.
Secondly, this spying on everyone would explain how Govt. officials can become millionaires in a relatively short time on middle class salaries. The information could easily include information about stocks and bonds that were pilfered from Corporations’ officers Banks, and Brokers then shared with those Members who were friendly to the NSA, FBI, or sundry other agencies who spy on us all.
This power is something organized crime can only dream of.
WEREN’T instead of ‘ were’.
quote”This power is something organized crime can only dream of.”unquote
Organized crime? Haha. What the fuck do you think the USG/Fed/Banking cartel is and has been since 1913? The largest theft of the rewards of human labor in the history of mankind is the 16th Amendment.
When you vote for laws of this type it should come as part of the “terms of Agreement” that you have voluntarily given consent for any and all actions you just enacted to be applied to yourself personally.
Adam Smash: TRUTH http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Evil-Financial-Civilian-Population/dp/1304217779/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1451584109&sr=1-1&keywords=The+Hidden+Evil
SPAM
http://prometheusinaspic.blogspot.com/2011/12/spam-everyones-favourite.html?m=1
Kitt, is that you? Are you two related? Or is it merely a coincidence both of you respond identically to discussion of American Zersetzung?
How ironic to see so many of the folks willing to spend millions of your tax dollars making absolutely, positively, beyond the most unreasonable of doubt, that Hillary didn’t let any classified or even just ‘sensitive’ information accidentally slip into her pretty secure, but not quite government rated secure, emails are petrified that their deliberate leaking of classified and very sensitive information might now be in the hands of the NSA, where there competitors for higher office could manage to get it leaked.
@Torturestan
My Reply button does not work.
You whine about FFCHS being a disinfo vehicle. I do not give a stinky meatloaf!
Lefora, which is not an entity that is owned by FFCHS, gracefully gave me a platform, along with many other tortured individuals, to share our horrific experiences with the world. And we remain grateful.
If you were a true TI, which you obviously ARE NOT, you would not be working so hard to suppress the dissemination of the abuse of fellow TIs by attempting to discredit the platforms that they use. But you do so because you most likely have a vested interest in their suffering.
Now go tell your imbecilic handlers to coach you a little better. That is how you can both hurt, maim, kill and drive insane most of your victims, better. And thus get more orgasms that you otherwise are incapable of experiencing normally.
I have a vested interest in calling out disinfo.
FightGangStalking.com is also an obvious disinfo vehicle. There, you can get clued up about a new Stasi cloaking device, and if you want you can goad the author(s) into personally defending torturers in the US medical community, and witness them deny the reality of routine physical torture perpetrated by the Stasi with the help of primitive tools such as straight-razors, scissors, needles, hair-cutting shears, and sleep deprivation — sometimes using their very own children.
All low tech and lowbrow, Pat B.
Mr. Greenwald, speaking of the NSA, how long do you think it will take for you to release the rest of the Edward Snowden-obtained documents in your possession?
I think you’ve got Il Duce pinned. He most surely sounds like the person you describe.
Happy New Year!
@Adam Smash
My Reply button is broken. You wrote:
” The biggest issue facing the American population today is not hacking and cyber-surveillance, but the oppressive, Stasi-styled Counter-intelligence Program (COINTELPRO) which was supposed to be terminated in the 1970’s – but never was.
Now it has arisen – like a phoenix out of damp ashes – to take the lives, souls, families and futures from innocent Americans – in order to finance a private security sector comprised of thugs and cronies of rogue federal employees and DoJ associates.
98% of federal intel and law enforcement are decent and God-fearing individuals and deserve the respect and support of America.
However, there is a vicious rogue 2% – compartmentalized and sadistic – which acts above the law and engages in many acts which cause loss of life, property and family.
This same 2% is destroying America, decent citizens, academics, and families. COINTELPRO was never terminated. It was buried in a hole and renamed.
Now it has arisen again and is a threat far greater than paltry “data interception,” or “metadata collection” – which is a simple sleight-of-hand created in order to detract attention from the total data-rape of every American citizen. ”
—————————————————
I thought I would echo your words here to emphasize the grave truth that they convey, and to do so without adding a single word of my own.
However, for those who are new here, I’d like to refer them to a ‘url’ that illustrates the point:
http://freedomfchs.lefora.com/topic/7442322/nanodevices-in-sensory-overload-mind-control-torture
Please refer others to this ‘url’ so that no one will say they did not know. And let everyone, in Europe, the Americas, China, Asia, Russia and all of Africa, know what awaits them all at the hands of US torturers.
FFCHS is an obvious disinfo vehicle.
Nice work. This is ‘lawyering’ and journalism of the best kind. Hypocrisy wears many colors. Actually in this case I’m glad the flunky Republicans working with Netanyahu got tapped. Are they agents of a foreign power? Spies? Un-American? Undermining the U.S. government? War-mongers? War profiteers? Criminal racists?
Republicans and Democratic elites have to go.
I LOVE YOU GLENN GREENWALD and I LOVE EDWARD SNOWDEN TOO!!!! YOU BOTH ARE THE HOTTEST MEN ALIVE!!!!
Totally sharing the sentiment, if not its precise mode of manifestation :-)
A lot of the problems in a society and the world will go away if those in power will adhere to a very simple, universal ethic: Do not do unto others what you don’t want done unto you.
How does that fit into the context of this article?
After all, just because Pete Hoekstra doesn’t want his Israeli buddies to be spied on doesn’t mean the USG shouldn’t do it.
He may be a hypocrite, but that doesn’t render his change of heart correct.
How does that fit into the context of this article?
The context of the article is in the title,
NSA Cheerleaders Discover Value of Privacy Only When Their Own Is Violated
Hoekstra’s hypocrisy on this, specific to his concerns about his own privacy, fits quite well into the Do unto others rubric. His call for,
would only apply to NSA spying on Congress since, as you, Glenn and Hoekstra all note, the US govt can legally spy on his Israeli buddies. So, if that call for prosecution only applies, as it must, to spying on Congress – even though he voted for the bill whose language explicitly permits it – Hoekstra is calling for exemptions to be applied to Congress above and beyond what they, quite obviously, do unto other. That’s pretty rich considering that the rest of us are much less likely to be violating laws prohibiting conspiring with foreign governments to subvert their own country’s foreign policies.
But there is no evidence that Hoekstra’s privacy has been compromised. In my view, he takes issue with the notion that his former allies, constituents, and benefactors are being subject to illegal monitoring, but he has zero basis for this claim! Just because Pete Hoekstra seemingly had a “come to God” moment on surveillance that aligns with your views doesn’t mean you let down your guard and trust the shit that comes out of his mouth as now credible or accurate. That’s the problem with Glenn’s use of people like Hoekstra and Harman to validate his points. Yes, they are rightly labeled hypocrites but their change of heart doesn’t given them instant credibility and their comments legitimacy.
To assess Hoekstra’s comments and the controversy, you have to first discuss US intent. The WSJ stated that the purpose of the spying was not to intercept American legislators’ communications in a roundabout way but to analyze Bibi’s efforts to affect U.S. foreign policy in Iran. Glenn may think “incidental collection” is a ruse, but when you get into the nuts and bolts of the matter, it is impossible to just collect the target’s communications and not also incidentally collect communications from non-target individuals. And for the record, this isn’t bulk collection. So for example, if the U.S. is focusing on Bibi’s Government e-mail account, they are going to acquire the contents of his outbox and inbox. Contained in that inbox could be communications from members of Congress including our good pal Pete. This isn’t some new reality created by modern technology, this expands back decades. By law, the NSA is required to “minimize” that information, as detailed in the WSJ article:
This is an inherent part of intelligence collection and should not be discounted as Glenn did. It also should not be confused with bulk collection, as it is not that.
I think you are reading too far into Hoekstra’s claim and ascribing legitimacy to his Tweets without analyzing the details. I don’t interpret his comments to mean that Americans are fair game but Congress is off limits” but that he believes the entire endeavor was a political one by the Obama Administration. The WSJ article simply does not support this narrative. So when Hoekstra Tweets that “NSA and Obama officials need to be investigated and prosecuted if any truth to WSJ reports” you should don the same skeptics glasses that you would have before he changed his mind. He said “If any Truth to WSJ reports…” If you read the paywalled WSJ article, you would see how empty this statement is, as the article describes many, many things that if true, are allowable under law. The controversy lies primarily in the spying on an ally and the collection of U.S. communications that resulted from this spying. Hoekstra’s lack of specificity renders his comments unclear and pretty much meaningless, as he does not provide any basis for why an investigation should occur. Furthermore, I’ve read that damn article three times and there is not a SINGLE ALLEGATION of wrongdoing in accordance with the law.
So where does this leave us? I think it is fine that they investigate the matter but it will likely be an in-the-weeds compliance review of NSA procedures, such as: did they follow the minimization procedures and were “direct communications between foreign intelligence targets and members of Congress” destroyed or properly waived due to their containing “significant foreign intelligence.”
If congressional investigations determine that the NSA and/or the Obama Administration conspired to circumvent the rules and intentionally (or even recklessly) spy on Congress, I’ll grab my digital pitchfork as well. That is a huge “if,” especially since the Administration – being the very lawyerly and cautious Administration that it is – presumably gave the NSA a significant amount of discretion to avoid claims of politicization.
Well, that was a lengthy amount of babble specific to Hoekstra that may, or may not, be pertinent. So, while I am uninterested in picking nits the size of pimples on a flea’s ass, I will note that Sufi’s initial observation stated, those in power . And the article gave multiple examples of those in power backtracking when they themselves appeared to be in danger of being exposed by the spotlights they support having turned on all the rest of us absent Fourth Amendment protections.
So I still say her observation was spot on. And will continue to say so no matter how much word salad gets tossed my way.
Happy New Year. Don’t drink and drive….and don’t drink at all unless you’re 21 or over. ;-}
Let me get this straight, a reader of GG articles, which are often very lengthy, is going to straight up dismiss my comment because of its length?
Stick to Twitter if you cannot keep up Pedinska.
Eight skate and do-Nate … if Pedinska’s quick-witted new years eve reply is not enough, how about this:
Iow, Rep Jane Harmon was willing to do unto you (us all!) what she did not want done to her.
*as a powerful congressperson, who in no small way held the reins of power, this supersedes personal ‘hypocrisy’ … and, imo, rises to the level of an impeachable breach of her responsibilities as an elected defender of both the letter and spirit of the US. constitution.
Cheers.
More punctuation please, this was a pain to unfurl.
Jane Harman is probably not a good person to bolster anti-surveillance talking points, as she could have had criminal charges filed against her for suspicions of her providing leniency to pro-Israel lobbyists under investigation,at the request of an Israeli agent. [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/21/us/politics/21harman.html?ref=politics]
She isn’t quite the “innocent American” caught up in the dragnet that she has claimed. Unless you also have the ability to talk to foreign agents and have the power to consider requests to influence criminal investigations.
Cheers.
Hmm! I thought it was obvious.
No, it was not.
* There is no information that indicates Pete Hoekstra had his privacy violated
* Jane Harman was not the target of intelligence collection and arguably had no right to claim privacy considering what she was doing.
* DiFi’s legitimate complaint about her Committee being spied on by the CIA does not render her past statements as hypocritical since what the CIA did was in violation of an agreement between the SSCI and the CIA.
That’s why you read beyond the title of the article.
And hence…my question.
Sorry, I thought the article had a general import beyond the specifics.
My mistake.
LOL. trolling only illuminates your perception of me as a threat. Why!? I’m just some guy on the net! Your worldview must be firmly entrenched and held dearly to resort to such laughable actions. To rational individuals, they are also evidence that you cannot form a substantive rebuttal. If true, I bet that pisses you off.
In your world, is this exercise somehow productive!?
You seem a likable sort with your no-frills intellect focused, tightly, at your feet.
>”Do not do unto others what you don’t want done unto you.”
Good advice for New Years eve, Sufi! *I bet you got that outta the Qur’an or some other Holy Book …
ps. … the way I see it, Sufi, ultimately world order itself can only be established on an unshakable understanding and application of that very principle.
Yes, there’s a verse in the Quran that alludes to it. There’s also a Prophetic and a Sufi saying.
I have heard that from members of other traditions as well.
But we need not religion-ize it as its meaning is universal.
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. The Bible
Speaking of DiFi ….
I think it’s the US Congress that lacks empathy when they keep passing more surveillance laws allowing intelligence agencies to collect ever more data on Americans and other innocent people.
You may be right, John! … perhaps that’s why Glenn could find no use for the word (“empathy”) in this article.
#:)
Yeah, that barely clad lady that goes by “Constitution” keeps losing her cherry coming and going now even by rape gangs of powerful, stupid, and hypocritical bitches.
bh2 and gezzer had an interesting (and to me odd) discussion regarding the (seemingly secret by now?) meaning of the letter and spirit of the Constitution.
I think that would be an excellent theme for John Oliver. I also know about how the reading and comprehension grade level of songs’ lyrics has been going down. Does that explain why there is no children songs anymore? Why children now listen to and sign rap and such cr@p from the time they start talking? People can’t comprehend anything that doesn’t fit on the screen of their cell phones, anything they can’t click on, anything that isn’t “gr8″, …
On the other end of the spectrum, something I find suspect is that U.S. academia is very quiet about such issues. You don’t see professors and students debating and defending the constitution either. Chomsky has been talking a lot about:
https://archive.org/details/NoamChomsky-AcademicFreedomAndTheCorporatizationOfUniversities-2011
At this point people seem to have totally forgotten and be incapable of understanding the raison d’etre, letter and spirit of that 18th century document. So expecting for people to respect something they neither know, nor understand, nor care about is like telling people to respect, be impressed by the importance of the sequence of frequencies of the pentatonic scale or the Mathematical demonstration by Hippasus of why the square root of 2 is an irrational number (contrary to what Pythagoreans though, which cost him some gruesome death), when they don’t even understand what for a number being rational means.
It is pointed out constantly that the U.S. Constitution was more of a gentlemen agreement than a social contract. I think we are being a bit too unjust to those gentlemen. It may be that I like (the true ;-)) Thomas Jefferson, but we should always keep in mind that slave trading didn’t mean in those times what it means now. In fact, he seemed to like his slaves a lot in what seems to be a bit more of a trading way ;-). We should also consider that the paradigm they were trying not to be framed by was the cr@ppy French Royalty.
As Martin Luther King Jr. did while fighting for racial equality (some time ago people actually believe a negro was (3/5) human) the U.S. Constitution and the Declaration of Independence have been reread, respirited and reawaken a number of times. I may be wrong and I very much hope so, but I think we are dealing with a totally different problem nowadays. To cite just one important aspect, I think in those times technology was a progressive force. Today it is mostly not used in a progressive way. It is tantalizingly tempting and way too ubiquitously simple for those powerful, stupid, and hypocritical to use technology to (try to) globally manipulate and control all people real time.
We should stop trying to refer them to the Constitution. However, they don’t seem to like the taste of their own medicine at all, nor are they the good “as we forget those who …” “do to others …” Christians they boast about being and they do understand the meaning of hypocrisy and mutherfuckerness. So, lets try to talk to them in the language they understand. At some point they might rediscover and understand a well-dressed, healthy and smiling Constitution.
RCL
That’s an interesting statement that got me looking stuff up – though apparently there is a wide range of views about whether Hippasus had anything to do with the story of a Pythagorean “drowned at sea” (by the gods?) for coming up with sqrt(2) or maybe inscribing a dodecahedron in a sphere or discovering irrational numbers. The main take home I get is that by the fundamental theorem of algebra, an irreducible fraction squares to an irreducible fraction, hence no integer has a square root that is neither an integer nor irrational.
However, you miss the main point that it was local rebellions like Shays Rebellion and especially the Whiskey Rebellion that allowed the demand for constitutional rights to be heard. Had people simply gone along with the document as drafted without putting the occasional whiskey tax collector’s nose to the grindstone (and I do not mean figuratively), there’d be no talk of “Amendments”. This is often forgotten by people who act as if putting them as amendments were simply a clever legal ploy… even if, in a way, it turned out to be one, since otherwise it would be less clear which part of the document overrode what.
@RCL
Entirely correct. And it’s worse than that, when we consider what the combination of technology, consumption (driven by affluence) and population growth must inevitably have on the possibility of a sustainable civilization (or even the survival of species, or the biosphere as a whole, depending upon how many of the nukes are launched during the ultimate resource wars).
It can even be expressed in the form of an equation, which arose from a discussion between Barry Commoner, Paul R. Ehrlich and John Holdren, in the 1970s:
I = P × A × T
In English:
“Human Impact on the environment equals the product of Population, Affluence, and Technology.”
Uncle Doug’s corollary to the above: The greater the value of I, the less likely civilization can be sustained and the more likely species destruction and overall biosphere threats will result.
Tim Leary’s (IMHO entirely reasonable) guidance: “Turn on, tune in, drop out” (Clarification, no drugs are required to accomplish this, though some may find certain ones helpful).
And join the Church of Stop Shopping.
The NSA versus AIPAC: that’s truly a meeting of the irresistible force and the immovable object. One would expect the title match of the millennium, at least.
However, I expect that the NSA will do what it always does when we complain about spying: it will terminate the program. It’s not in the business of running public operations, after all. And by the time the program is terminated, they’ll have some new program in place that is more far-reaching, that we don’t know about. Maybe they will even apologize. Maybe they’ll tell Congress they are stopping all collection. Until the next incident comes out, anyway.
So AIPAC can claim a victory over NSA, and NSA can go on spying on AIPAC, and everyone in the country will still know all their conversations are being spied on, and the status quo moves on.
The only potential deviation would be if that prosecution the commenters talk about would occur. The NSA spies on all sorts of stuff that they don’t officially prosecute, though there is always “parallel construction” (but that works better on clueless peasants). If the NSA changed that, it would mark a Rubicon into formal totalitarianism. But I doubt they’d pick this opponent to go up against first, any more than Caesar would have looked for a spot on the river with a big army on the other side before trying to cross there.
“However, I expect that the NSA will do what it always does when we complain about spying: it will terminate the program. It’s not in the business of running public operations, after all. And by the time the program is terminated, they’ll have some new program in place that is more far-reaching, that we don’t know about.”
That’s the thing with this kind of stuff: Yes, there are a lot of whistle blowers, but more often than not they are revealing stuff way in the past.
By the time this stuff reaches the public, it’s pretty much ancient history from the NSA perspective. The public reaction in that regard is kinda in “hindsight” and as such probably has barely any influence on what agencies like the NSA are doing right now.
This gives the impression of the notorious iceberg: Sure we see it, but what we see is just the smallest tip of whats actually going on. In about 5-10 years all the dirty secrets, about current events, will come to light, and none of us will be any wiser.
Excellent and profound writing in this article, as usual. Thank you for exposing U.S. politicians two-facedness. ;)
Ross Dunn :-) https://theintercept.com/2015/08/06/obama-summarizes-record/?comments=1#comment-155414
Treason Against the United States.
Published: January 25, 1861
By Section 110 of Article III. of the Constitution of the United States, it is declared that:
“Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open Court. The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason.”
In 1790, the Congress of the United States enacted that:
“If any person or persons, owing allegiance to the United States of America, shall levy war against them, or shall adhere to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States, or elsewhere, and shall be thereof convicted on confession in open Court, or on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act of the treason whereof he or they shall stand indicted, such person or persons shall be adjudged guilty of treason against the United States, and SHALL SUFFER DEATH; and that if any person or persons, having knowledge of the commission of any of the treasons aforesaid, shall conceal, and not, as soon as may be, disclose and make known the same to the President of the United States, or some one of the Judges thereof, or to the President or Governor of a particular State, or some one of the Judges or Justices thereof, such person or persons, on conviction, shall be adjudged guilty of misprision of treason, and shall be imprisoned not exceeding seven years, and fined not exceeding one thousand dollars.”
JAMES MADISON in the 43d number of the Federalist says:
“As treason may be committed against the United States the authority of the United States ought to be enabled to punish it: but as new tangled and artificial treasons have been the great engines by which violent factions, the natural offspring of free governments, have usually wreaked their alternate malignity on each other, the Convention has with great judgment opposed a barrier to this peculiar danger by inserting a Constitutional definition of the crime.”
The Constitution confines the crime of treason to two species; First, the levying of war against the United States; and Secondly, adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. In so doing the very words of the Statute of Treason of EDWARD the THIRD were adopted; and thus the framers of the Constitution recognized the well settled interpretation of these phrases in the administration of criminal law which has prevailed for centuries in England.
Treason, according to Lord COKK, is derived from trahir, signifying to betray; and trahison, by contraction, treason, is the betraying itself.
(cont.)
http://www.nytimes.com/1861/01/25/news/treason-against-the-united-states.html
Spying on the GOP chairman ‘i can live with that’
Why are we surprised?
Personally, I’m rather glad we’re spying. Having some inside scoop allows us to predict and anticipate – in a dangerous world.
Your tribe has a terrible track record at understanding, much less predicting what goes on in the world. If your kleptomaniacal habits were so useful you wouldn’t fuck up so much. Turns out you are your own worst enemy, American.
“We’re” spying? Who is we?
this is the equivalent of being against gun-control and getting shot at a mass-shooting
What goes around, comes around. And when the security state gets its claws sunk in up to the quick, all the “little people” must be constantly and carefully weighed and measured to determine their “threat level”.
But eventually the “big people” get targets painted on their backs because — after all — elected officials can be major troublemakers until whatever little personal secrets they hide become known to the spies. J. Edgar Hoover worked that side of the street for many years. It would come as no surprise that his game book would likely continue to guide his successors.
What was that bullshit about the “least truthful answer”?
Hey Clapper, get your ass back over here! Congress has a few more questions for you.
How dare the NSA spy on members of their own ‘club’!
And how dare those powerful, stupid, and hypocritical bitches (Harmon & Feinstein) try to invoke the Constitution – NOW!
Oh NOW they remember that there is a thing that’s called “the Constitution” that needs to be respected.
Is this the classic “what goes around comes around” meme??
If not, then it has at least come close enough to have severely twisted some knickers whilst simultaneously yanking on a good number of Congressional short hairs.
The question is, is the grip the NSA has on the short hairs sufficiently tight to outweigh the discomfort they’re experiencing from their knickers. After all, Feinstein’s petticoats were only bunched until she got an apology. That’s not a very comforting thought at all.
Is there audio, video, or a transcript available for the Greenwald/Hoekstra debate?
Never mind that!!!
I want it ALL!!!
EVERY FREAKIN’ CONVERSATION between the Israeli shills and the various members of the United States members of the House of Representatives/United States Senate!!! In transcript form! Unredacted!! NOW!!!!!!!!!
http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/01/questions_over_nsa_authority_deb.html
From the very beginning of all this spying on Americans I thought that eventually the “laws” they had all approved would come back to haunt them.
Boo! In the night!! Gotcha!!! (I hope).
What dedlightful irony.
Here is the NSA for once doing its stated job of defending the United States from interference by a foreign power. They listened to a foreign politician trying to subvert congressmen to derail the US policy of lifting sanctions against Iran in exchange for demonstrable proof that Iran was not working to p[roduce nuclear weapons.
So what’s the problem? Oh! They caught ME being disloyal to the USA. But I’m above the law so they can’t do that…
Exactly.
SPAM!
Spam?
I don’t think so wee wanker. It’s all true.
You should do a bit of research before spewing such spurious rubbish and sh!te.
Or maybe you are a GCHQ/JTRIG shill whining because yer illegal antics got a little limelight yeah?
Truly scummy how it all works. Don’t think they’ve seen the light in any significant way. This is their way of saying, “Get more NATSEC money in my coffers and I’ll shut up.” Some are already poopoohing the whole thing per The Hill.
I swore I was going away and giving up on TI threads because I was tired of the defiant, mean stupidity of some regulars and on the Internet just on GP.
But this is just too precious.
Ha-hah, Pete Hoekstra! Ha-fucking-ha-ha-hah!
As a U.S. taxpayer, I DEMAND to see the transcriptions of ALL the intercepted phone calls between the parties in question.
NOW rather than later.
Maybe we can get the ACLU on this post haste.
And every member of Congress caught in this snare of treachery should be primaried NOW.
They ALL took an oath to the United States Constitution, NOT to the State of Israel.
If this was truly done out of “national security” interests, then we, the taxpayers, have a right to see what was done in our names and with our money.
“They ALL took an oath to the United States Constitution, NOT to the State of Israel.”
And how many lobbyists does the constitution have up there in Washington?
Ummmm…..none?
“They ALL took an oath to the United States Constitution, NOT to the State of Israel.” — Different name, same shit. Israel should just annex the other 50 states and be done with it.
Scott Ritter: “Final Act of Submission to Israel”:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_final_act_of_submission
Scott Ritter:
“To state that AIPAC, and by extension Israel, is above the law in this regard is to acknowledge the reality that American national sovereignty no longer matters when it comes to the state of Israel. So be it. But then we are, collectively, no better than those nations I mocked prior to the invasion of Iraq in 2003 as “colonies” of the United States.
So if we are to continue to permit AIPAC to operate as an undeclared agent of a foreign nation, and to influence American foreign and national security policymaking at the expense of our Constitution, then we should acknowledge our true status as nothing more than a colony of Israel, pull down the Stars and Stripes and raise the Star of David over our nation’s capitol.
While representing the final act of submission, it would also be the first truly honest act that occurred in Washington, D.C., in many years.”
Charlene Avis Richards: Outstanding research! Bravo! Thank you! Love it! :-)
The Final Act of Submission
Posted on April 13, 2007
By Scott Ritter
[Excerpt]
In this time of constitutional crisis, the American people need to wake up and demand that the basic tenets of the Constitution be adhered to. Congress is solely empowered by the Constitution to declare war. Demanding that the president of the United States adhere to this prerequisite is a logical and patriotic stance. Allowing any non-American interest, even one possessing such highly charged political and emotional sensitivities as Israel, to dictate otherwise represents nothing more than a capitulation of sovereignty. We the people need to rally around this defense of sovereignty. We must demand not only that Congress reassert its constitutional responsibilities and authority by demanding the president obey the letter of the law when it comes to war, whether against Iran or any other nation, but also to place in check the anti-American activities of one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington, D.C., the American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee.
(cont.)
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_final_act_of_submission
Scott Ritter, direct quote (from article): as an American who served on active duty in time of war as an officer of Marines, I also remember the oath I took to “uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”
[Ref:]
United States Uniformed Services Oath of Office
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
“… I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; …”
Text of the Oath [edit]
I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Services_Oath_of_Office
How do you know they did not take an oath to Israel? Israel does not have the US in its pocket by accident.
In the long run, will this actually change anything? There will be lot’s of outrage and bluster but I’m skeptical any real change will be forthcoming. I do feel a bit vindicated though that Congress gets a taste of what they advocate so freely. I haven’t felt this good about govt hypocrisy in quite a while. So just so we all think things like this elicit change they will make a small concession and continue along unabatedly in the near future. Correct me if I’m wrong.
This latest issue with the NSA is just the tip of an invisible iceberg. Things are actually much, much worse – and America is much further down the path towards a totalitarian police state than most people realize.
The FBI, DHS, and NSA are now engaged in utilizing unconstitutional Stasi techniques called Zersetzung, and a huge civilian spy branch has already been deployed in the United States for more than a decade.
Are you aware of how out of control things really are in the “Land of the Free?”
The “civilians” involved in this widespread operation are comprised of immigrants – both legal and illegal, criminals, ex-cons, and the dregs of US society – hired by the FBI’s civilian branch called InfraGard – which on the street-level, helps manage this unconstitutional and sadistic program, primarily comprised of sociopathic misfits.
YouTube has thousands of videos of people who claim to be victims of “Gang Stalking” or “Gangstalking.”
In many cases (not all, but many), these innocent Americans who claim that they are victims of “Gang Stalking” are the targets of this illegal counter-intelligence program (COINTELPRO) run out of the Department of Justice, and simply do not recognize who or what is behind their harassment and destruction of their lives, relationships and livelihoods.
The Church Committee exposed this illegal program (which was never terminated) in the 1970’s.
It is a multi-billion dollar (and illegal) program which funnels funds to InfraGard and private security companies run by ex-FBI, ex-DEA, ex-DoD employees.
Anyone who has been placed on a watch-list is a potential target for data-theft, cyber-harassment, break-ins (usually no sign of forced entry), vandalism, overt harassment, covert harassment, slander, destruction of personal and professional relationships, economic sabotage of targets, and stalking in commercial locations.
All of these activities are coordinated from (basically) two playbooks: The Stasi’s “Zersetzung” tactics and the Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group (JTRIG) – a branch of the UK’s Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ).
JTRIG (and now the FBI, DHS and NSA) run their operations based on the 5 D’s: Deny, Deceive, Disrupt, Degrade, Destroy.
These are “soft-kill” methods which ruin the lives of innocent American citizens while leaving a “negligible footprint” – i.e. little to no evidence of the harassment and unconstitutional activity perpetrated by the rogue factions within the US Government.
The Stasi utilized the same tactics, albeit their reach was more limited than the illegal program being run in the US due to technological limitations, since the use of computers at that time and in that area of the world were nearly non-existent.
However, in this day and age the high level of integration of smart-phones, computers, and tablets, has facilitated the government’s illegal spying program and helped strip Americans of their constitutional rights.
Unfortunately, while countries like Russia (which is still not “perfect” or totally free by any means) have gradually become a bit more democratic and open, the pendulum in the United States is rapidly swinging in the other direction.
We now live in a police-styled state where innocent Americans can be put on a “pre-crime-styled” watch-list (think Minority Report) as “potential” domestic threats, or “potential” domestic terrorists, via decisions in a closed-door kangaroo court referred to as the “star chamber.”
There is no due process in these decisions, victims have no idea of what they have been accused of, and the DoJ has ordered local and state law enforcement to “stand down” when complaints are made regarding any of the aforementioned illegal activities.
Who are the watch-listed “domestic threats” and “domestic terrorists?”
Politically outspoken individuals, academics, activists, investigative journalists, NRA members, veterans, anti-abortion protestors, Tea Party members, conservatives, LGBT community members, BLM/Occupy Wall street participants, Americans who own property abroad, out-of-the-box thinkers, Americans married to a foreigner, world travelers, scholars who research of military subjects, whistle-blowers, etc.
And this is not even an “all-inclusive” list.
Rogue factions within the federal government do not like empowered individuals or independent thinkers who can’t be shuffled around and manipulated like mindless sheep.
They want malleable people who are easy to influence, and will drink the “kool-aid” without questioning what the “special recipe” really is.
“Gang Stalking” aka post 9/11 COINTELPRO, is really a culling program which has been implemented by the government in an attempt to control or nullify empowered people, natural leaders, intellects or anyone else who they feel threatens their agenda – which consists of leveraging more power over the American public while simultaneously destroying our constitutional rights.
Odd that the “motto” of the CIA is a quote from Jesus Christ:
“Seek ye the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall set ye free.”
Okay. Give us some TRUTH.
I want to see TRANSCRIPTS of ALL the phone calls the NSA obtained between Netanyahu and Co. and our various members of Congress.
Where is Snowden when we need him??!
Snowden revealed 5% of the terminal cancer which is afflicting the general population of the United States.
Israel and the U.S. spy on each other – tit-for-tat.
Netanyahu’s intercepted communications are non-relevant.
As good as the US is at data-interception, Israel is much better (Queen vs. Rook) – to the point that discussing their level of access almost enters the classified realm – thus I will not go into details.
Don’t worry about Bibi, he can take care of himself – better than most.
Whatever the US has on Bibi – he has 10x more on US admin. and all US citizens, through open access to databases which are all-encompassing. and contain profound data on more than 300,000,000 people.
If you are American – you should worry about what the American citizenry is subject to by its own government – not Israel.
If US intel was able to step across Israel’s secure communications threshold – then what is the relatively unprotected US population subject to from the likes of the NSA, DITU (FBI), OTD (FBI), and their proxy birds-on-the-wire (JTRIG) in the UK?
Did you consider that what the US “grabbed” from Israel was a “low-hanging plum from a broken branch?”
If it the fruit was “plucked,” then there is a good chance that it was meant to be and that the branch was broken intentionally.
Mind your G_d, country and family first, then worry about extraneous actors.
The biggest issue facing the American population today is not hacking and cyber-surveillance, but the oppressive, Stasi-styled Counter-intelligence Program (COINTELPRO) which was supposed to be terminated in the 1970’s – but never was.
Now it has arisen – like a phoenix out of damp ashes – to take the lives, souls, families and futures from innocent Americans – in order to finance a private security sector comprised of thugs and cronies of rogue federal employees and DoJ associates.
98% of federal intel and law enforcement are decent and God-fearing individuals and deserve the respect and support of America.
However, there is a vicious rogue 2% – compartmentalized and sadistic – which acts above the law and engages in many acts which cause loss of life, property and family.
This same 2% is destroying America, decent citizens, academics, and families. COINTELPRO was never terminated. It was buried in a hole and renamed.
Now it has arisen again and is a threat far greater than paltry “data interception,” or “metadata collection” – which is a simple sleight-of-hand created in order to detract attention from the total data-rape of every American citizen.
Worry about your own country and family first before you worry about low hanging plums on broken branches, guarded by silent and well-armed invisible sentries.
Edward Snowden is in forced exile in Moscow. He risked his life for the benefit of others, most of whom could care less. Most Americans have realized his worst fears; most of them do not even know who Edward Snowden is.
However, he once worked for the goons, as was deeply involved on the technical side of the criminal programs described by Adam Smash ( https://theintercept.com/2015/12/30/spying-on-congress-and-israel-nsa-cheerleaders-discover-value-of-privacy-only-when-their-own-is-violated/?comments=1#comment-188686 ). And those who now posses the NSA doc cache have shown zero interest in exposing the criminals behind the US’ Zersetzung torture programs of personal destruction.
Why?
If I were Edward Snowden facing a life dependent on the Kremlin’s largesse, I would think “I’ve done enough”. But I am a US torture subject, enjoying no free protection from any government anywhere, and I have a different perspective. So I want to ask him why he doesn’t do shit about this. Why the exclusive focus on the technical side and the total neglect regarding what happens to people who were once HIS targets.
I know he’s retired and not culpable now. But his former employers’ targets want to know…
Adam Smash: TRUTH TO THE PEOPLE! THANK YOU! 14 YEARS (MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE) AND COUNTING … GO BERNIE SANDERS 2016!
To quote you, in part:
Rogue factions within the federal government do not like empowered individuals or independent thinkers who can’t be shuffled around and manipulated like mindless sheep.
They want malleable people who are easy to influence, and will drink the “kool-aid” without questioning what the “special recipe” really is.
“Gang Stalking” aka post 9/11 COINTELPRO, is really a culling program which has been implemented by the government in an attempt to control or nullify empowered people, natural leaders, intellects or anyone else who they feel threatens their agenda –
As noted on other threads, Sanders will be seen as a shill for HC. He has long ago stated that he will support the Democratic nominee. That forlorn party will nominate HC. Support third party candidates! The duopoly of the Dems and Reps must be ended.
An open letter to Mr. Hoekstras:
Hello Pete,
I wanted to thank you for your tweets earlier today regarding the WSJ report that the NSA has been spying on you and your associates and wanted to comment.
I am glad to see your concern now raised over the issue of spying that clearly violates Constitutional rights of American citizens. Your tweet noted that this spying is “very disturbing” and I fully agree with you, though, given your past statements substantially supporting the activities of the NSA, I am surprised that you are at all surprised this happened. I would have expected nothing less.
I must assume that your thinking in supporting the NSA programs was along one of the following:
1) That the NSA would never abuse its power in spying on Americans as a whole, and that the abuse noted by the WSJ comes as a complete and unexpected surprise.
2) That the NSA would certainly abuse its power, but would only direct the abuse to other Americans, and that you and your associates would be immune to this abuse.
Whichever line of thinking applies, I am quite thankful to see your raised concerns. You have debated this issue with Glenn Greenwald, strongly siding with the NSA, and I am hopeful you have now been reminded of the ways these programs certainly can and are used as political tools to limit and corrupt the democratic process you have sworn and oath to uphold. These are dangerous programs that will always, ultimately, be taken to, in your own words “outrageous” lengths.
Your tweets echo what millions of Americans have been saying since the whistleblower Edward Snowden showed American citizens what was being done in their name. “Unprecedented abuse of power” is certainly an accurate statement.
I fully agree that this does in fact need to be investigated and actually prosecuted. Actual, real, meaningful prosecuted. Not just the standard political circus charade, but prosecutions that result in prison time and the shutting down of these programs.
Your tweet “Scary” hardly scratches the surface. I am far more scared of the existence of these secret and incredibly powerful programs, and the politicians that stand up to defend them, than I have ever been of any terrorist threat. I remember a wise man once saying something to the effect of “Those who would give up a little freedom for a little security deserve neither, and will loose both.”
I applaud you in speaking out publically with such strong language. I will continue watching closely to see how you use the power of your former position to bring about swift and meaningful change on this incredibly important issue.
Respectfully,
– A concerned citizen
Somebody should ask Bill Clinton while he is out stumping for his wife if he now has any regrets for the bill he signed legislating the DEATH PENALTY for treason?!:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_federal_government
I truly enjoyed just going to Twitter and telling Hoekstra that he is a hypocrite. :)
He’s also a moron so I doubt he gets it.
The responses to Hoekstra’s tweets are hilarious. And, a little bizarre…
….thanks, again, for the scoop on our U.S. spy mafia organization….especially enjoyed the Jane Harman inclusion who, when interviewed, always comes across as being so righteous….
….as for the rest of those who continue to support the concept of search without warrant legislation, remember… “Nothing really happens until it happens to you”, right?
Mr. Greenwald
“…….But all that, of course, was before Hoekstra knew that he and his Israeli friends were swept up in the spying of which he was so fond. Now that he knows that it is his privacy and those of his comrades that has been invaded, he is no longer cavalier about it. In fact, he’s so furious that this long-time NSA cheerleader is actually calling for the criminal prosecution of the NSA and Obama officials for the crime of spying on him and his friends…..”
Outside of Mona, no American fears acts of terrorism targeting civilians in America by radical Jewish terrorists. Netanyahu – just like any world leader – is fair game for US spies. After all, Israel spies on the US. What are friends for?
The primary reason for the collection of bulk phone metadata is to identify contacts of suspected (primarily Islamic) terrorists in the US and elsewhere. Your article on the drone operator (“The NSA’s Secret Role in the U.S. Assassination Program”) indicated that collecting phone metadata in Afghanistan worked saving American and civilian lives.
“……The former JSOC drone operator is adamant that the technology has been responsible for taking out terrorists and networks of people facilitating improvised explosive device attacks against U.S. forces in Afghanistan……”
However, Pete Hoekstra probably has good cause to take the President to task since he was not informed of the spying. Obama simply used the NSA for political purposes. While it is true that Obama might have argued that this was about national security, Hoekstra could just as easily used the same argument. This certainly falls in the category of dirty tricks and clearly is abuse of power by the President. Again, spying on Netanyahu is no problem. Collecting bulk phone records is also no problem – unless you have something to hide…….
Just a different nation’s “security.”
@ Craig
Yeah except for Mona, Darrell Issa and all the other people in America who were targeted by the JDL.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League
Out of curiosity, and in your simpleton propagandist’s mind, what does engaging in surveillance of the people in an active war zone have to do with mass warrantless collection of American’s conversations in America? You aren’t so reading comprehension challenged that you believe the airman was suggesting that mass surveillance of Americans in America saved the lives of Americans (military or civilian) operating in Afghanistan are you? Because that would make you stupid in addition to being an authoritarian coward.
Not as far as I’m concerned it isn’t. Any elected US official who is conspiring with a foreign national, particularly a foreign head of state, to sabotage a sitting US President’s official diplomatic efforts, particularly one seeking to peacefully limit nuclear proliferation, should be prosecuted for treason and/or impeached.
How’s this–Fuck You and Fuck Rep. Hoekstra. There isn’t enough Fuck Yous in the world for somebody like Netanyahu who is a pathological liar and demented war criminal of the highest order.
Do you ever get tired of attempting to peddle your facile, unlinked, ahistorical and logically and morally bankrupt propaganda around here? You come off as a barely literate uninformed douche bag on a daily basis–so the real question is why would you do that? Do you think you are actually adding something to the conversation here? Ever. Do you think you are actually persuading anyone here to your point of view? Because you aren’t. Do you just like to see your own simplistic thoughts in print or are you being paid to comment here?
More importantly, are you simply too lazy or too stupid and technologically illiterate to learn how to blockquote and link to the purported evidence of your specious arguments?
And please please please learn to properly use an ellipsis you borderline illiterate moron.
My goodness, you sure did hit most of the low points there. Let’s see, emphatic use of expletives? Check. Personal insults? Check. Use of overblown invectives that make no actual argument? Check. Use of all caps or all bold in an attempt to add significance to a complaint about grammar and/or knowledge of HTML? Oh, yeah…definite check.
Thanks though for skipping the Hitler/Nazi tags; perhaps there’s hope for you yet.
So…where was he wrong?
There’s one mistake in the very last sentence: the word borderline should have been left out.
@ Greg
Scroll on by brother. Scroll on by. Didn’t mean for anyone to clutch his/her pearls or start reaching for the nearest fainting couch because I used some naughty language delivered in a less than soothing tone. When Craig stops clogging threads with his unlinked unformatted babble I’ll drop some of the invective.
Your replies to his spluge are spot-on and pitch-perfect.
“When Craig stops clogging threads with his unlinked unformatted babble I’ll drop some of the invective.”
Bullshit!!! You are a liar, bully, hypocritical grammar Nazi, and indefatigable egotist. The fact that Craig is not baited into matching your highly selective vitriolic rhetoric speaks far more positively of his character than yours. It gets extremely tiresome to read your never-ending, acrimonious bull shit. It is only a blog comment section for Christ’s sake. Get a grip man! That goes double for you chorus of sleazy sock puppets as well.
The intercept would do well to limit everyone to a single comment per article as there are precious few who understand the value of sincere and respectful dialogue.
@ Karl
Go ahead and demonstrate, with a link, one lie I’ve ever written in these threads. I’ll wait. And when you’re done flailing and failing on that one, prove I’ve ever employed a sockpuppet here.
If you are tired of reading my posts, skip them. You won’t hurt my feelings in any way whatsoever.
As far as everything else you wrote, here’s what I have to say–I could care less about your views on civility or the proper bounds of respectful dialogue. If you think “character” is a function of how people interact in a comments section, then I’d argue you are as big a know-nothing as Craig is.
You want to put me in my place, prove me wrong with demonstrable facts and coherent logic and morality. Short of that I’m going to continue to debunk the bullshit sophistry and disinformation people like you and Craig peddle here daily employing whatever language or tone I see fit. And there isn’t a single fucking thing you or Craig can do about it. You think that makes me a “bully”–tough.
So here’s my advice to you–fuck off and let Craig fight his own battles. I’m sure he believes he’s capable. If you’d like to have dustups with me regarding comments directed toward you, then I invite you to bring it. If not ignore me. Either way it makes no difference to me.
What I can guarantee you is that nothing you say regarding my style or tone of commenting will change the content of one single thing I post here–ever. There is exactly one person and one person only whose opinion in that regard I care about, and that’s Glenn Greenwald’s. If he asks me to tone it down or suggests I’m disrupting his comment threads I’ll act consistently with his wishes because this is his BBQ so to speak.
What you think about anything other than that I could care less about.
Oh yeah, and Happy New Year! How’s that for civil?
According to this article (http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-muslims-carried-out-more-than-90-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619),
Islamist terrorist attacks accounted for 6% of terrorism between 1980 and 2005, whereas Jewish terrorist attacks carried out over the same period accounted for 7%. Hmmm…
That was hilarious.
Hear Hear!!!!!!
Dude, chill! You’re being an asshole. I don’t agree with parts of his post here either but some pieces are on point. Furthermore, he isn’t resorting to name calling and insults, so why are you? Let Mona and the lapdogs handle that shit, not you!
Not sure I’m ready to go that far since we have no idea what the congressional communications were, but we probably shouldn’t know because they were not the target of NSA surveillance, remember!
But we seem to agree that Bibi is absolutely fair game for spying. I responded because this article reminded me of something else. Remember how a few days ago I was discussing to you about having to divine Glenn’s implicit arguments. This is a prime example. What are the main points of contention on this NSA-Israel spying article from the WSJ? I see them as (1) the propriety of NSA spying on its prime ally Israel, and (2) how the efforts to spy resulted in collecting congressional communications in the process. Glenn is so busy focusing on the hypocrisy of two disreputable individuals (Harman and Hoekstra) that if you weren’t paying attention you could easily miss that Glenn implicitly supports item No. 1.
“It’s certainly worth debating…” It appears to just be a copout but I think I’ve read enough GG articles to know that this is essentially agreeing with the NSA’s surveillance of Israel. But he won’t just say it or arrange his article around this, because it conflicts with his advocacy! So Voila! we get one of Glenn’s trademark “Hypocrisy-based” articles that ignores the bigger picture. Although his hypocrisy rants do hold limited value, especially when including respected individuals (not the case here, at least for me), months down the road we won’t be giving two shits about Harman’s and Hoekstra’s changes of heart but will likely still be discussing the NSA’s decision to spy on its most prominent ally. After all, this was the prime takeaway from the WSJ article.
Yet Glenn glosses over this in a typical sin of omission. He implicitly agrees that Bibi should be spied on but somehow finds it “deceitful” that the NSA would incidentally consume congressional communications in the process. That is absurd, for reasons I am willing to explain if you’d like, because he is trying to have it both ways: Yes to spying on Bibi but no to hitting any targets other than Bibi, despite their being mutually exclusive. I believe that his anti-NSA advocacy is so strong that he sidesteps the greater substantive issues because addressing them may add an ounce of legitimacy to his proclaimed adversary.
Bill Keller to Glenn Greenwald: “The thing is, once you have publicly declared your ‘subjective assumptions and political values,’ it’s human nature to want to defend them, and it becomes tempting to omit or minimize facts, or frame the argument, in ways that support your declared viewpoint. And some readers, knowing that you write from the left or right, will view your reporting with justified suspicion.
@ Nate
Your concerns for the tenor of my language re: Craig Summers have been duly noted.
Which pieces are on point because I’m not seeing it?
As far as the remainder of your response, I’d contend you are misunderstanding or misinterpreting the thrust of Glenn’s piece whether implicitly or explicitly.
And as far as spying on foreign nationals goes–for me it boils down to the status of the foreign national. If the objects of the spying are government or military officials, spy away. If they are foreign national-private citizens, unless suspected of criminal activity against US instillations or government personnel and/or against private US citizens on foreign soil legally, then no spying.
No government should be engaged in mass surveillance on any other nation’s population or private individual’s communications who aren’t directly implicated in ongoing criminal activity. And if it’s an American citizens anywhere in the world, and the surveillance is being conducted by a US governmental agency, then that American agency should be forced to obtain a particularized warrant upon establishing probable cause before a court of law.
Targeted surveillance of private citizens only pursuant to a particularized warrant should be a fundamental human right and/or limitation imposed by customary international law on all nation’s governments.
I also don’t believe any private entity should be able to collect any data, metadata or any other form of information on a private citizen unless they expressly consent to it and it is limited to that data which is absolutely necessary to provision of a voluntarily agreed exchange of services or goods between the person and entity. Or pursuant to specific law requiring the data to be provided to the appropriate governmental regulatory agency (examples–tax info, regulatory compliance etc). And any information that is collected should only be permitted to be sold or transferred to another private entity only by express permission of the individual whose data was collected for whatever purpose. And that includes no sharing of data between subsidiaries without express permission of the affected individual.
Let me be the one to tell you that while some here want to discuss the tenor of your comments rather than the substance of them, I for one am completely at ease with the tenor. It reveals the exact frustrations that I myself feel, and therefore I say you need to do more of it sir.
When people feign outrage at the tenor of a comment, instead of outrage at the actual crimes and deaths and destruction being discussed, it’s outrage that needs to be slapped in the face. That kind of outrage is worthless at best. At worst it’s misdirection and sabotage. Please don’t let their fake outrage get to you.
Happy New Year! Merry Christmas! Happy Holidays! Happy Everything Else that applies!
So how should Glenn discuss racism or Nazism for instance. Should he not take a position on these topics because it irritates Bill Keller’s idea of how he should be looked at as a journalist? Should we take both sides of these issues so that people don’t know our “subjective assumptions and political values?”
Bill Keller is an idiot. His standard is useless.
Happy New Year!
You don’t need to be a polemicist to condemn racism or Nazism. You can make a compelling enough case just from statistics and actual events.
One can make a compelling enough case for everything else as well, if one puts his or her mind to it.
Is this worthy of further investigation?:
http://rense.com/general64/moss.htm
Would it be classified as a “crime” or “misdemeanor”??
Agreed. E.O. 12333 spells out the underlying U.S. objective quite clearly:
I roll my eyes at those who suggest that spying on Israel – an ally – is off the mark. But I can understand people’s concerns about how the NSA treats the incidental collection of American communications in the process. However, spying on allies is something that should be considered on a case-by-case basis. A couple years back when we heard the U.S. was spying on Angela Merkel, I was not convinced that the benefit of doing so outweighed the cost and the mistrust it caused. However, leaders in countries like Israel, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey are adept at the double game and to think that their “ally” status transcends U.S. intelligence collection is to jam ones head in the sand.
Whoa, where did this come from!? The bulk metadata program had nothing to do with the U.S. spying on Netanyahu. When the dust settles on this spying thing, I’d bet my ten cents that the NSA conducted this surveillance under the aforementioned EO 12333. As for metadata in the U.S. versus in Afghanistan, I believe the intention is different. Your description of the system in the U.S. (to identify contacts) is accurate but in Afghanistan, my understanding was that it was more for location-based purposes. Again, bulk collection of metadata is irrelevant to this article.
I wouldn’t be so certain. As I quote below, the WSJ said that “U.S. spy agencies ramped up surveillance in 2011 and 2012, with the assent of … congressional intelligence committees.” On a sidenote, Hoekstra left the government in 2011. For Hoekstra to be unaware of this spying dynamic is to basically admit being a dullard. During Hoekstra’s heyday during the Bush Administration, Mike Hayden “described the intelligence relationship between the U.S. and Israel as ‘the most combustible mixture of intimacy and caution that we have.'” The WSJ article goes onto describe that “Early in the Obama presidency, for example, Unit 8200 [Israeli equivalent of the NSA] gave the NSA a hacking tool the NSA later discovered also told Israel how the Americans used it. It wasn’t the only time the NSA caught Unit 8200 poking around restricted U.S. networks. Israel would say intrusions were accidental, one former U.S. official said, and the NSA would respond, “Don’t worry. We make mistakes, too.”
What political purpose would that be? There were legitimate foreign policy reasons to spy on Israel. The U.S. has been adamant that Israel not take military action against Iranian nuclear facilities. Sourcing continues to go to WSJ unless otherwise noted
And then there were Bibi’s was not subtle efforts to undermine our policy interests with the Iran nuclear deal. This isn’t politics, this foreign policy with a sprinkling of politics.
Completely disagree and in an unusual chain of events will quote Glenn: “I’ve always argued that on the spectrum of spying stories, revelations about targeting foreign leaders is the least important, since that is the most justifiable type of espionage.”
Pete Hoekstra comes out of this ordeal as a hypocrite. But that doesn’t make his change of heart or allegations correct.
Side note: Strangely missing from Glenn’s article is information on minimization, as that process is what will be scrutinized when Congress determines whether rules were broken when incidentally collecting Congressional communications.
Hi Nate
“…..I wouldn’t be so certain. As I quote below, the WSJ said that “U.S. spy agencies ramped up surveillance in 2011 and 2012, with the assent of … congressional intelligence committees.”…….”
I wouldn’t be so certain either. Maybe the intent of the Obama administration was to spy on Hoekstra(?) for any number of reasons concerning Israel. Spying on Israel is perfectly legit, however. The Obama administration used the FISA law, but he could have undermined any suspicion by informing Hoekstra. Simple.
“…….What political purpose would that be? There were legitimate foreign policy reasons to spy on Israel. The U.S. has been adamant that Israel not take military action against Iranian nuclear facilities……”
Politically, (generally speaking) the Republicans opposed the Iran nuclear deal so there was significant motivation to spy on Republicans. Sitting Presidents have to be careful how they use their power for political purposes.
“……. In 2011 and 2012, the aims of Messrs. Netanyahu and Obama diverged over Iran. Mr. Netanyahu prepared for a possible strike against an Iranian nuclear facility, as Mr. Obama pursued secret talks with Tehran without telling Israel. Convinced Mr. Netanyahu would attack Iran without warning the White House, U.S. spy agencies ramped up their surveillance, with the assent of Democratic and Republican lawmakers serving on congressional intelligence committees……”
Israel has already prepared for a potential strike against the Iranian nuclear facilities – for years, but attacking Iran without US knowledge would be very risky. Bush turned down any support for an Israeli strike on Iran at the end of his second term. Israel understands unless Iran is (knowingly through intelligence) moving full bore toward nuclear weapon capability (which they were not according to US intelligence) that they need US support to bomb Iran. Additionally, it was very predictable that the Obama Administration never had any intention of bombing Iran after the election of 2008 (despite the rhetoric). Although Israelis support bombing Iran without US support – Netanyahu is not totally crazy. A solo effort by Israel would put US interests and soldiers at risk.
“…….And then there were Bibi’s was not subtle efforts to undermine our policy interests with the Iran nuclear deal. This isn’t politics, this foreign policy with a sprinkling of politics……”
I agree. No sitting Israeli Prime Minister wants to be charged with allowing Iran to become a nuclear power under their watch. This would only embolden Iran’s regional ambitions. In addition, easing sanctions against Iran also makes financing operations in Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon and Syria much more viable for Iran. There was absolutely no reason for Israel to support a deal for multiple reasons.
“……Pete Hoekstra comes out of this ordeal as a hypocrite. But that doesn’t make his change of heart or allegations correct…..”
Or wrong. I doubt you trust Obama anymore than anyone else at this site. In my opinion, he could have set politics aside by telling Hoekstra – or he could have obtained a warrant for national security reasons.
“……Whoa, where did this come from!? The bulk metadata program had nothing to do with the U.S. spying on Netanyahu…..”
Sorry about that. I agree with you. I quite often get off topic with Glenn because I refuse to allow him to pigeon-hole the conversation. I like to inject this particular information because although the Intercept interviewed the guy who said collecting metadata (in Afghanistan) saved American lives, the Intercept and the mousekateers will be the first to question the effectiveness of the program in the US (intercept):
“…..According to a former drone operator for the military’s Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) who also worked with the NSA, the agency often identifies targets based on controversial metadata analysis and cell-phone tracking technologies……The former JSOC drone operator is adamant that the technology has been responsible for taking out terrorists and networks of people facilitating improvised explosive device attacks against U.S. forces in Afghanistan……”
Of course, this does not prove that the program has been effective in the US, but it does imply the methodology works. It is very likely that the success in Afghanistan led to the implementation in the US(?).
Thanks.
Every new congressman/woman signs a pledge of support for the State of Israel.
The profusion of the anger is most likely to show Israel how enraged they are at HER being spied upon, rather than at themselves being targets.
I don’t think they have any illusions about their personal worth or value to the NSA, since anyone signing to pledge allegiance to a foreign govt should be viewed with the contempt that they deserve.
Former member of Congress Cynthia McKinney details how members of the U.S. Congress are asked to sign “the pledge to Israel”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXaCym8RjJU
This is the underlying weakness that is most likely to cause the failure of any Surveillance State – who gets to play Surveiller and who is subjected to Surveillance.
At first this seems obvious – the Masters of the Universe get to spy and us Hoi Polloi get to be spied on.
BUT!
The current Presidential Campaign is a horrible Nazi-fest for a reason – this is a rabid-toothed dogfight between the various shitheads that think they have a right to wield this power and shield themselves from it.
Again, it is Wizard of Oz shit – just some everyday idiots trying to exploit the fears and incapacities of everyone else, but only one group gets to be the Wizard.
The whole thing with “State Secrecy” and the “Secret Service” is that they are never Secret. There is always a Chain of Command; there is always a system of ordering, reporting and responding; there are always multiple Actors and even more Targets; there will always be a turnaround in these parties and the information sought, new and old players, new and old wants and targets, new and old technologies and their experts; there will always be anticipation and Counter-Measures; and there are always, albeit covert, activities performed in the public domain, there to be accidently occasionally witnessed.
So what we end up with is a bunch of rich people who have clever employees that are sometimes their friends and family, or their own well-educated children or the children of their friends who snoop around in places they shouldn’t. When they are friends and family they can sort of trust them more, so they favour them, but they are closer to the reins of power so they can’t trust them entirely as they can become usurpers; when they are employees they can’t be trusted as much as they are mercenaries, but they can be paid well and it is harder for them as outsiders to the Halls of Power to usurp. It is the Quandry of the Surveillance State: WHO THE FUCK TO TRUST?!?!?!?!?!
Then there is guys like Hayden who grab their dicks and act real tough and pin the Secrecy Act on the wall and through Chelsea Manning into Hell so everyone can know their place and fear the consequences who are UTTERLY UTTERLY UTTERLY destroyed and discredited by one nerd like Ed Snowden.
Paranoia. Paranoia. Paranoia. Paranoia. Paranoia. Paranoia. Paranoia. Paranoia. Paranoia. Paranoia. Paranoia. Paranoia. Paranoia. Paranoia.
It is rather ironic that such a fascistic model as this that relies on fear so much is itself totally subjected to insane levels of fear and paranoia amongst the people who wish to gain such riches from it. It is what drove Mao and Stalin and Hitler to MURDER so many people in what seemed such indiscriminate ways.
Greek comedies were full of wise slaves and servants mocking weak and egomaniacal bosses. Being at the top isn’t all it is cracked up to be, but some people just can’t help their greedy megalomaniacal selves – hey Donald and Dick and Hillary, can you?
Welcome to the Reality of your Rulers, America. You can fear them, or you can disarm them and make the world a better place.
The government has the technology to tape phone calls ???
What’s next
Could the Amish be the only ones left with privacy?
All of this reported misconduct by the “NSA” and not a single individual within the NSA’s chain of command is mentioned as being responsible in the article? Every intelligence gathering operation has a string of authorizations attached to it. Why aren’t these publicly funded officials being identified and named? Why are these illegal acts always being presented as being merely institutional in nature? Why are we always treating the intelligence community as if it is monolithic in nature? Those involved in the NSA’s chain of command should be named and publicly shamed for not questioning orders and activities that clearly violate U.S. and/or international law.
There answer to most of your questions is fear. The NSA/FBI have so much dirt on Congress/Senate that none of the elected leaders has the guts or moral high ground to take a stand against this illegal activity.
Secondly, all discussions of ‘metadata’ are welcomed by the NSA since they have been doing a ‘full take’ (metadata, email content, VOIP, sms, land-line, cell-phone) for at least a decade and can go pull up ALL communications on any American for at least a decade.
Metadata is propaganda so that the American public watches the sleight of hand as the man behind the curtain pulls whichever levers he chooses to…
“There answer to most of your questions is fear. The NSA/FBI have so much dirt on Congress/Senate that none of the elected leaders has the guts or moral high ground to take a stand against this illegal activity.”
I have long struggled with Russ Tice’s claim that the NSA routinely uses collected intelligence against sitting American politicians. I have been hearing such claims since Hoover was blackmailing JFK over his affair with Judith Campbell Exner:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/02/fbi-director-hoover-s-dirty-files-excerpt-from-ronald-kessler-s-the-secrets-of-the-fbi.html
And here again we have a rerun of a Bill Moyers program from 1987.
Did Bill Moyers ever attempt to speak to “We the people” out there? TI still has the option of doing so.
I was elated when the OPM hack happened. I am glad about this one too.
I think it was Kofi Annan the one who said that the U.S. government and/or foreign policy was “morally bankrupt”.
I thank again Snowden profusely. If he ever had doubts, this is a good example showing them tripping badly and publicly on their own sh!t and falling deep into it. They however don’t seem to feel like pigs in sh!t even though they are indeed pigs in sh!t, but, well, politicians have never been known for being congruent, making sense in any way.
I seriously doubt they will ever again win back the trust of the general public (their “operation recoverable” bs). However, even if the minority out there with a basic moral latitude will never again trust them; the spineless, clueless, careless majority may offer them a vote of confidence as some form of workable “tie” if we don’t reach out to them.
RCL
What makes governments dangerous? Power.
What does government surveillance do? Increases government power.
“You have nothing to worry about if you have done nothing wrong.”
That depends on who is defining what is wrong and what is right.
Are political opponents doing something wrong?
Are unfavorable news reporters or agencies doing something wrong?
What happens when the President (any President) or his devotees, who can find out about anyone in the US, does not like someone and decides to do something about it; whether it be political or personal?
Government officials seem oblivious that the potential for abuse from these programs is astronomical. We can not have government surveillance that in the hands of less than desirable government officials (which is most of them) can silence or destroy dissenters and political opposition.
It is not about why they pass such ridiculous laws or the purity of their intentions, it is about what some future demented politician might use these laws for.
Bwahahyahahahahahahahaha…hahahahahahahahahahaha…hhohohohohohaahahahahohohohohoho…heehehehehehehehahahahahahahahahhaha…(chokechoke)..haha …stop..stop…goddammit Glenn..yer killin me . hahahahahahaha…oh man…hahahaha…
Irony of ironys. The pro-surveillance IC scumbags get bagged by the NSA.. trying to undermine the Iran deal no less… and now they’re pissed ….hahahahahahahahahahahahaha…hahahaha..hohohohohoh..hahaha..hah..ha..
God I needed that. sheezus that’s almost funnier than this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-schlarmann/donald-trump-lists-fing-y_b_8886230.html
What would be even funnier, is if they get prosecuted for conspiring with a foreign government to affect US “interests”. I’d be ROTFIGSL. Of course.. when pigs fly comes to mind.
Or prosecuted for failure to register as the agents of a foreign power.
Of course you are right about “when pigs fly.” Where would the prosecutions end — with many presidents, hundreds of State and Defense Department officials, congress critters by the carload, and thousands of entrenched bureaucrats dancing to Israel’s tune.
I am soooo ready for another “Iran-Contra” style set of hearings where the entire country is RIVETED to their TV screens again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug0IL7k3elQ
Bring it on!!!!
Indeed. Except..the exposure of the real P’sTB..aka..the Secret Team, will be thwarted again, as it was then when Sen. tried to force Oliver North to testify regarding Rex24, only to be interrupted by the chair who implied the ptb would be extremely upset should details of Rex24 come out.*
In this case, the current Secret Team will prevent any and all exposure of USG subservience to Israel from ever seeing the light of day. If you think I’m in lala land, I suggest you learn from the horses mouth…aka one Col. Fletcher Prouty…
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/ST.html#TOC
After all…the survivors of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty in 1967 learned the hard way..to this day.
Moreover, a robust research into USG issue of contracts to US contractors who have built massive underground nuclear resistant bunkers in Israel, funded by US taxpayers, will reveal the living proof of how deep the rabbit hole really is.
In essence..the ONLY way total support of Israel will EVER stop..is a complete, united, citizens refutation of the 16th Amendment..ie.. income tax revolt/insurrection/bloody civil war. Comprende?
Political solutions via voting is a monumental joke. However..when Pigs fly comes to mind again.
This country has been so propagandized, educated, manipulated, and subjugated into a nation of lazy, complacent, cowardly nincompoops.. it won’t happen by virtue of the peoples outrage. The ONLY thing that will precipitate complete insurrection will be gun confiscation. Only then will a small percentage of the civilian population who are gun owners reciprocate in kind. And they will not go quietly into the night. PERIOD.
* btw, each and every youtube of the Contra hearings where Rex24 was referenced, has been removed. That should tell you something.
The sweet smell of Schadenfreude in the morning.
Finally something useful from the NSA! Of course I am not referring to the fact that key members of Congress are lying hypocrites, we already knew that. No, what I mean is details on the extent to which certain members are willing to compromise their duty to the people they swore an oath to serve for the purpose of serving the interests of another country. I wonder, if it were revealed that Hoekstra or Feinstein were doing precisely what they are doing for Israel, except that they were doing it for, say, Russia or Spain, how loud would be the outcry?
These people, who accuse Edward Snowden of treason, should in fact know what treason really is, for they themselves are the ones committing it.
You can be sure that O has listened in on all there calls and every last one of them know it. O has the goods on everyone of them. Why do you think they vote for all of his unconstitutional BS all the time. Well, they are feigning outrage now. But, its all a rouse and will be whitewashed in the end. O knows what theyve been doing , all of them have been treasonous and he will use it to his benefit.
Do you think the spy agencies really allow Obama to listen without constraint?
What of when they listen to him? These agencies are the real centers of power.
Obama (or any elected official) could be manipulated by selective releases; and because it could be done, it likely will be done.
The skinny man is just a puppet , you are right. He just does what he is told. They got dirt on him as well. I guess the puppeteers are running the ns@ as well.
One of the sad things about conspiracy theories and the corresponding theory of omnipotence is the tendency to disregard factual data that might be contradictory. Of course the IC is a big black box – or better yet a collection of black boxes – that we mere proles cannot peer into. As there are so many wires connected to them, and based on a few tidbits of information from reliable sources such as Ed Snowden, we assume they are collecting everything, and thus are prompted to leap to the conclusion that they know everything. And with all those wires, they must also be tightly interconnected, right?
Well, there is plenty of evidence to indicate that they don’t know everything, even if they are collecting it all, and that they are poorly interconnected. Case #1 is 911, where various FBI agents in the field were reporting on people taking flying lessons without interest in learning how to land, and John ONiell connecting things to al Qaeda (http://www.pbs.org/video/1587879291/). Case #2 is the run up to the Iraq invasion that brought us to our current situation, in which the evidence provided by the French and German intelligence services was ignored, in which the reports of the IAEA concerning Iraq’s nuclear program were ignored, and where even a State Department report on how Aluminum tubes purported to be used for centrifuges were actually unsuitable due to low precision, was ignored. Case #3 is the Boston marathon bombing, where the specific intelligence provided by the FSA (those evil Russians!) was debunked, and Case #4 is the recent attack in San Bernardino where one of the perps had been Tweeting about her radicalization and desire to kill for years.
Maybe all the information is there, but there are two things that are actually working in our favor. First, although James ‘the Clap’ Clapper has been empowered to consolidate all the intelligence services, he has failed to do so because they are all entrenched bureaucracies whose primary instinct is toward their own survival. That survival depends upon not sharing information, and doing whatever else they can to make their competitors look bad. Much like inter-service rivalry (I once heard a VADM (three star) say, “I’m not worried about the Russians. It’s the fucking Air Force that scares me”). Second, the amount of data being collected is so huge it becomes impossible for any human to assimilate it, even to monitor all of it. For that, one must rely on data science tools such as machine learning. One does not need a PhD, only a few introductory courses, to realize that data science, like statistics (which is a part of it) does not produce certainty, does not eliminate ambiguity, and can lead to false conclusions if misapplied, even in subtle ways. Unfortunately those who make the decisions are technical ignoramuses surrounded by sycophants, and believe they can operate in violation of the laws of nature (see the FBI director’s statements about cryptography for a recent example, or ask Hillary). So even if they have the most powerful computers in the world, which they do, and even if they suck up all the data, which they do, they still won’t be able to prevent all terrorist attacks. Already the evidence of that is substantial.
As for Obama, he is clueless. How could he control the NSA when he cannot even control the JCS?
The question should be , why aren’t Politicians, Judges & Bureaucrats being prosecuted ? Only after the members of our 3 branches of Government are prosecuted should there be a trial for Mr. Snowden, after all they committed their crimes long before he blew the whistle on them ! ! !
UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 18 – CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I – CRIMES
CHAPTER 13 – CIVIL RIGHTS
§ 241. Conspiracy against rights
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any inhabitant of any State, Territory, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured – They shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results, they shall be subject to imprisonment for any term of years or for life.
§ 242. Deprivation of rights under color of law
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any inhabitant of any State, Territory, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such inhabitant being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results shall be subject to imprisonment for any term of years or for life.
“For the purpose of Section 242, acts under “color of law” include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the their lawful authority, but also acts done beyond the bounds of that official’s lawful authority if the acts are done while the official is purporting to or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties,. Persons acting under color of law within the meaning of this statute include police officers, prisons guards and other law enforcement officials, as well as judges, care providers in public health facilities, and others who are acting as public officials. It is not necessary that the crime be motivated by animus toward the race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status or national origin of the victim.
Torture is also a crime under International law, the US has signed Treaties to that effect !
Time to hold these CRIMINALS to account, so lets take back America people, it is up to us FOR THE SAKE OF OUR CHILDREN & GRANDCHILDREN !
Wake up people, Democrats or Republicans,Tories or Labor. Liberals or Conservatives it’s two sides of the same evil coin it’s called Fascism. So the next time a politician asks for your vote, support or money just say no & vote for an independent candidate. Send a message they can’t ignore & will understand ! ! Both parties have been complicit in this criminal activity. Democrats & Republicans don’t decide elections Independant voters do so now is the time to elect independent candidates ! !
Money in politics equals corruption, reduce the money you reduce the corruption ! We don’t need the worst politicians money can buy, we need politicians that money can’t buy ! It’s time to remove the Corporate Congress from office & take back America !
The whole point is to expose this Election Shame for what it is . We need to divide & conquer Democrats & Republicans instead of them providing the American public with false choices, Its time to remove the Corporate Congress ! !
If you take away their power then you can take away their toys !
The Government will continue its PR & propaganda campaign using the following tactics as quoted by Joseph Goebbels during the 1930’s & 1940’s.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” AND
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”
The following link is a must read ! This is not the Future. This is the here & NOW ! http://1933key.com/US-Empire/US-Patriot-Act-Compared-to-German-Enabling-Act
See also : http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/05/spying-meant-crush-dissent-terrorism.html
The supreme law of The USA is the Constitution, not the Patriot act the FISA act, or any other such acts that have unconstitutional provisions,are invalid & it matters not how many public officials say it’s legal, it’s NOT for the Constitutional Amendments say otherwise ! ! To say it is legal only shows the public their betrayal of the Constitution, their oath of office, and the American people.
No more lies, excuses rationalizations,or justifications, the public needs to hold these officials to account to the fullest extent of the law under Title 18 sec. 241 & 242 So any future traitors will know there will be consequences to such behavior. I hope the other five eyed nations have equivalent laws, but if not maybe it’s time to get some. Better late than never.
Don’t blame Snowden or the Press for the actions of NSA & GCHQ & our Governments, they are the ONLY ones responsible for the crimes they have committed ! ! ! See USC Title 18 Sec. 241 & 242 (Above). So why no arrest warrants for high crimes, but only for misdemeanors ? ? ?
High crimes = NSA + GCHQ + PUBLIC OFFICALS OF THE UK & US ! ! !
Misdemeanors = Snowden, Manning, Assange, lAVABIT
REMEMBER: POLITICIANS, BUREAUCRATS AND DIAPERS SHOULD BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON.
Some words of true Patriots are as follows, as opposed to the words of false flag patriotism of bought & paid for professional politicians of today.
He that is of the opinion money will do everything may well be suspected of doing everything for money.
Benjamin Franklin
He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.
Benjamin Franklin
Experience hath shown, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.”
Thomas Jefferson.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by
the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law’ because law is often but
the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.
Thomas Jefferson
In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.
James Madison
Liberty may be endangered by the abuse of liberty, but also by the abuse of power.
James Madison
The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.
Patrick Henry
“We the People are the rightful masters of BOTH Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution”
Abraham Lincoln
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abraham Lincoln
We should not forget the warning of President Eisenhower . It has become the here & NOW !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLqWfWxqh_0
The NSA is controlled & operated by the DOD & the MIC (Military Industrial Complex) Private Corporations.
“The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it.”
President John F. Kennedy
Waldorf-Astoria Hotel
April 27, 1961
As a reminder Hermann Goering said at the Nuremberg Trials .
“The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”
As is said in the law, falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus. (“False in one thing, false in all things” is an instruction given to jurors: if they find that a witness lied about an important matter, they are entitled to ignore everything else that witness said.)
Time to start removing the corporate Congress from office & defunding the NSA to force them to comply with the law & impose jail time for non compliance under USC Title 18 Sec. 241 & 242 (Google it) or see above .
“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.”
Benito Mussolini
The short version of the above is as follows:
Any Government or Party that doesn’t abide by the Constitution does not deserve our respect or support ! ! ! They are traitors !
Unaccountable power is absolute power, & is absolutely corrupt !
Disclaimer: Be advised it is possible, that this communication is being monitored by the
National Security Agency or GCHQ. I neither condone or support any such policy, by any Government authority that does not comply, as stipulated by the 4th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
Excellent reporting / writing Glenn. Always brings a smile to my Heart when the Universe balances….
Thank You |
Excellent reporting/writing Glenn…..
The Universe always balances.
Thank You!
BTW, how many documents are left unrevealed from the Edward Snowden NSA files?
” NSA wiretap caught Harman “telling a suspected Israeli agent that she would lobby the Justice Department to reduce espionage charges against two officials of American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) in exchange for the agent’s agreement to lobby Nancy Pelosi to name Harman chair of the House Intelligence Committee.” ”
Interesting how Ms. Harman did not spend a day in jail for this obvious quid pro quo offer!
But, her career has really suffered?!!
According to Wikipedia…
She is currently the President and CEO of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, a member of the Defense Policy Board, the State Department Foreign Affairs Policy Board, the Director of National Intelligence’s Senior Advisory Group, and the Homeland Security Advisory Council. She was a member of the CIA External Advisory Board from 2011 to 2013. Harman is a Trustee of the Aspen Institute and the University of Southern California.
One has to wonder … what is she getting “reimbursed” for?
And, what does it say about Woodrow Wilson International Center?
Id say Ob@m@ has this type of stuff on many members of congress and the judiciary
I just want to know who where the politicians that where spied on speaking with the Israelis. Id love to see the voting records and contribution lists of those in congress who where spied on. Then putting 2 & 2 together , we will be able to figure out who was entrapped into voting for Ob@m@s Iran nuke deal, healthcare laws,Treaties and every other unconstitutional law that O stuck on us. Id say that this will go no where. The foxes are watching the henhouse again. Do you think the Scotus justices are being listened to. What do they have on them? Gonna get some surprising votes from them as well . The .gov got everyone of them in there pocket. We are screwed.
I can sympathize with the outrage of these members of Congress. Imagine you’ve spent your whole career hiding your actions to avoid accountability. At the very moment of your triumph, you suddenly find everything you’ve ever done is known to the NSA. The rage is not due to violation of privacy, so much as the discovery that the NSA controls you, that you are a mere puppet, less powerful than your lowliest constituent.
They may be hypocrites, but they are honest hypocrites – their outrage is genuine. I give them credit, since it indicates they have some remaining spirit. The general public long ago acquiesced to their fate and even foreign leaders made only a half hearted protest. However, Congress is the representative of the people. Once the people became powerless, Congress was always destined to follow suit. In hindsight, they may even regret selling out their constituents – since it ultimately led to their own irrelevance.
So ironically true!
RCL
Oh, such wishful thinking! All they will ever regret is that they did not get away with longer than they have. And, BTW, they are still getting away with it. Some tears, wringing of hands, and harsh words, followed by muttered apologies all round, and then back to business as usual. I give it three of four news cycles, tops.
No, wait, it’s New Years with the various bowls and playoff games. One news cycle.
quote”The general public long ago acquiesced to their fate and even foreign leaders made only a half hearted protest. “unquote
Maybe in your pathetic fascist universe.
hellfire-your snark-o-meter is in need of adjustment. Benito is perhaps our best satiricist.
I simply have no idea, how you maintain your genius!!
Fantastic as always!
Another very fine piece of advocacy reporting. Thank-you , Glenn Greenwald.
Jane Harman was my Congresswoman. :3
As ranking member of the House Select Committee on Intelligence, she would’ve been one of the few people on planet Earth fully briefed on NSA unconstitutional activities.
I’m not saying that she was Wiley Coyote, but if you wanted to release classified information and not go to jail, you would do exactly what she did on purpose.
I mean Nancy Pelosi is not THAT stupid. Jane Harman was kicked out of Congress for releasing classified information even if she did it sneakily.
How about all the votes potus got from the Congressional folks that got listened to taking bribes from Isreal. Know we know why all of potus laws get passed. He’s got something on each and everyone of them. Includes the SC and judges. Wow
But Glenn,
Members of Congress are Super-Citizens unlike regular American hoi polloi who are closer to subjects, canon fodder and/or Duracell worker batteries for our corporate overlords and their profit-maximizing machinery.
As Tennyson wrote:
You and most of your readers are well aware this nation was founded in unequal laws, and unequal privileges, immunities and citizenship rights and status. The Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution may have been cloaked in the language of “egalitarian ideals” but they were first and foremost documents to protect the citizenship and ruling rights, and property interests, of a subset of American citizens. Not much fundamentally has changed in a couple of hundred years of this nation’s existence.
And while it is indisputable that America has made significant strides in extending the nominal protections of those laws, privileges and immunities to many formerly excluded groups, I’m not sure any of that changes how elites in American society view the “rule of law” or the ideals this nation nominally aspires to. The “rule of law” is for use against the little people not the Super-Citizens and business elite. And only the propertied elites believe they are entitled to the full benefits and protections of the “rule of law” or its aspirational goals.
The “rule of law” to them is the mechanism by which you keep the American working class rabble in line. It’s how they maintain an unjust and unsustainable, if not immoral, economic system.
Of course they are outraged when they find out the apparatus of state is being employed against them and the interests of their actual constituents (propertied elites, corporations, foreign elites)–that’s because they have an expectation that the more malign mechanisms of state will only ever be used against the rabble. And that “expectation” is born of the fact they create and write the “rule of law” to facilitate their expectations (and those of their actual constituents).
What they are likely mad about in this instance is that a fellow elite or institution had the temerity to employ the rule of law against their interests or expectations which was not what they ever intended. That’s a big no-no in the Palace of Versailles.
The Fourth Ammendment become the equivalent of the 13th floor in hotels: Not in use.
Thank you Glenn.
It’s always been weird to me to see people who get at least part of their agency’s income from taxes lack humility when it comes to the erasure or compromise of things that are not theirs. I think that’s why people often have no problem likening them to State sponsored thieves. When their defenders land on the recieving end of their power trip it’s not so much fun any more is it? I wonder if what has been clearly illegal all along will suddenly get called illegal. I’m sure Congress and staff are still smarting from all the unwanted exposure from the Chinese OPM conquest. (You know they’re mad.)
Suddenly public doesn’t wanna be so public anymore, huh? I hope certain press member remember that when they’re taking selfies with their favorite bureaucrat.
Great article as always mr Greenwald!
If only more people listened maybe the world would not be so insane.
Again thank you in the name of people with 2 braincells , papers like The Intercept are among the last hopes for sanity
Great article Mr. Greenwald, thank you.
I wish there were enough outrage at the congressional level to get the laws changed – although at this point I’d expect a law just making such privacy restoration apply only to Govt Officials and Bibi…(saying that only half jokingly).
That’s it. From now on I am only using my phone for 976 numbers.
care to mention another unyielding NSA defender, Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee Dianne Feinstein? Or are Democrats untouchable on The Intercept?
You must have missed the paragraph about her?
Alex N
LOL (literally, not figuratively)
You should re-read the article. Search for “Dianne Feinstein” and “Jane Harman” and then let us know what you find.
After that, you should try searching for what we’ve written about Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton and come back and let us know if “Democrats are untouchable on The Intercept.”
Along those lines, I am surprised that The Intercept has yet to report on the ongoing controversy involving the Commission on Presidential Debates’ debate inclusion requirements. Two 2012 presidential candidates who had ballot access in a majority of states (Jill Stein and Gary Johnson), and several organizations created to try to open the debates, are suing the CPD to try to change the requirements. It’s a fairly major story in terms of the Establishment’s hypocrisy (we claim to be for “democracy”, yet our election system can hardly be called democratic compared to many other nations’). In fact, unless I somehow missed it, TI has yet to even cover or mention any third party candidates at all.
I’m not saying this to try and make TI look bad, but because I want it to continue to be that news organization that flips the bird at the corrupt Establishment. Oh, and thanks for the above article Glenn, keep ’em coming.
See above the paragraph beginning, “The same thing happened when Dianne Feinstein …”, where Greenwald characterizes the woman as one of “the most subservient defender[s] of the Intelligence Community”. Next time try reading something a bit carefully before you hasten to comment, you moronic arsehole.
Next time, actually read the article before shooting your mouth off. And please reply! You’re leaving the rest of us wondering what happens when an idiot is confronted by their own idiocy.
If American citizens knew the level of treason our political leaders engage in on behalf of Israel they would be outraged (I hope).
The only to outrage American citizens is by telling them that there are some Muslim countries not bombed by the US Army. They don’t give a shit that their own government will strip them off of all their meaningful rights. As long as they can watch CNN and FOX talking about killing anyone who disagree with them while POTUS is telling them how exceptional and awesome they are.
2015: A year of protests in America
Published time: 30 Dec, 2015 14:29
Edited time: 30 Dec, 2015 14:31
https://www.rt.com/usa/327455-protest-police-wages-year/
Israeli intelligence undermining US sovereignty
Wed Dec 30, 2015
Israel is undermining America’s sovereignty through espionage activities, says an intelligence expert.
The Unite States has the right to spy on Israeli officials as the Tel Aviv regime has long been breaching America’s sovereignty through its espionage, says an American intelligence expert.
According to a Wall Street Journal report published on Tuesday, US President Barack Obama has privately maintained the monitoring of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on the grounds that it served as a “compelling national security purpose.”
This is while Obama announced two years ago that he would curtail eavesdropping on friendly heads of state after the world learned of the long-secret US surveillance programs.
Washington was particularly concerned that Israel might be monitoring the nuclear negotiations with Iran to derail the effort to reach an accord on Tehran’s nuclear program, according to the report.
“The US has monitored ally and adversarial communications across the board for decades,” Scott Rickard told Press TV on Wednesday.
Rickard, a former American intelligence linguist, noted that the advancement of technology has allowed Washington to expand its espionage practices at an accelerated rate after the World War II.
In Netanyahu’s case, Rickard noted that Israel and its intelligence service, Mossad, have enjoyed a “carte blanche” on tracking American citizens and politicians under an agreement with the US National Security Agency (NSA).
“So when this actual NSA surveillance is going on against Israel, there are people who work within the NSA that are very much aware and are notifying Israel that they are being surveilled during these conversations,” Rickard explained.
“At the end of the day, these surveillance operations go on at a regular basis, and unfortunately, because of the embedded nature of Israeli intelligence within the American intelligence system, they are constantly aware of the fact and they are very careful of the fact about how they communicate and the things that they say,” he argued.
Rickard concluded that Israel’s actions are “absolutely illegal” and a breach of America’s sovereignty. “Certainly the Americans are in every right not only to surveil what Israel is doing, but they should also start holding Israel accountable as well as the American officials that are cooperating with Israel.”
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/12/30/443867/Israel-Netanyahu-Mossad-NSA-Rickard/
It’s our fault electing crappy people all the time. Hope and Change … my goodness gracious!!
You got it. And so did George Carlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxsQ7jJJcEA
The only problem with not voting is that it’s too easy to discount you as apathetic and/or ignorant of the issues.
If we vote third party, on the other hand, we can register our discontent and they can’t discount us.
The Democrats and Republicans have colluded to control this so-called democracy for decades. One of them will win the next election, but if they do so with a historically low percentage…
Hear, hear! May I suggest Jill Stein, the Green Party’s likely presidential candidate?
WakeupAmerica and Joshua H.:
Precisely !!!!
I agree with you, in fact. I plan on voting for Jill Stein again, but probably will not vote for congress because it is likely that only democrats and republicans will be running. People tell me I am wasting my vote, voting Green, but my response is that it is they who are wasting their votes, electing people who are evil.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think we can do write-ins for Congress. By all means vote, and by all means vote third party, and if no third party candidate is running, write someone in.
Again, it doesn’t matter who wins. What matters is to send that message that we are paying attention, we are unhappy, and we will speak with our votes.
A vote for a non-Republican or non-Democrat is a vote against the status quo.
It’s the usual pattern. Some people believe in universal principles (e.g. “privacy matters”). Most just believe in their own interests. So long as those interests are met, they could care less what happens to others.
Before they emigrated from Holland, I wonder…on which side were they during WW2?
~€! His PARENTS, I mean.
Man! Comment blooper day for me! HOEKSTRA’s parents…