The National Security Agency and FBI have covertly monitored the emails of prominent Muslim-Americans—including a political candidate and several civil rights activists, academics, and lawyers—under secretive procedures intended to target terrorists and foreign spies.
According to documents provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, the list of Americans monitored by their own government includes:
• Faisal Gill, a longtime Republican Party operative and one-time candidate for public office who held a top-secret security clearance and served in the Department of Homeland Security under President George W. Bush;
• Asim Ghafoor, a prominent attorney who has represented clients in terrorism-related cases;
• Hooshang Amirahmadi, an Iranian-American professor of international relations at Rutgers University;
• Agha Saeed, a former political science professor at California State University who champions Muslim civil liberties and Palestinian rights;
• Nihad Awad, the executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the largest Muslim civil rights organization in the country.
The individuals appear on an NSA spreadsheet in the Snowden archives called “FISA recap”—short for the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Under that law, the Justice Department must convince a judge with the top-secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court that there is probable cause to believe that American targets are not only agents of an international terrorist organization or other foreign power, but also “are or may be” engaged in or abetting espionage, sabotage, or terrorism. The authorizations must be renewed by the court, usually every 90 days for U.S. citizens.
The spreadsheet shows 7,485 email addresses listed as monitored between 2002 and 2008. Many of the email addresses on the list appear to belong to foreigners whom the government believes are linked to Al Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah. Among the Americans on the list are individuals long accused of terrorist activity, including Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir Khan, who were killed in a 2011 drone strike in Yemen.
But a three-month investigation by The Intercept—including interviews with more than a dozen current and former federal law enforcement officials involved in the FISA process—reveals that in practice, the system for authorizing NSA surveillance affords the government wide latitude in spying on U.S. citizens.
The five Americans whose email accounts were monitored by the NSA and FBI have all led highly public, outwardly exemplary lives. All five vehemently deny any involvement in terrorism or espionage, and none advocates violent jihad or is known to have been implicated in any crime, despite years of intense scrutiny by the government and the press. Some have even climbed the ranks of the U.S. national security and foreign policy establishments.
“I just don’t know why,” says Gill, whose AOL and Yahoo! email accounts were monitored while he was a Republican candidate for the Virginia House of Delegates. “I’ve done everything in my life to be patriotic. I served in the Navy, served in the government, was active in my community—I’ve done everything that a good citizen, in my opinion, should do.”
(An Intercept video interview with Gill is below, as are videos of Ghafoor and Awad. They were directed by Nadia Hallgren and Intercept co-founder Laura Poitras.)
Given that the government’s justifications for subjecting Gill and the other U.S. citizens to surveillance remain classified, it is impossible to know why their emails were monitored, or the extent of the surveillance. It is also unclear under what legal authority it was conducted, whether the men were formally targeted under FISA warrants, and what, if anything, authorities found that permitted them to continue spying on the men for prolonged periods of time. But the five individuals share one thing in common: Like many if not most of the people listed in the NSA spreadsheet, they are of Muslim heritage.
“I believe that they tapped me because my name is Asim Abdur Rahman Ghafoor, my parents are from India, I travelled to Saudi Arabia as a young man, and I do the pilgrimage,” says Ghafoor, when told that no non-Muslim attorneys who defended terror suspects had been identified on the list. “Yes, absolutely I believe that had something to do with it.”
The FBI—which is listed as the “responsible agency” for surveillance on the five men—has a controversial record when it comes to the ethnic profiling of Muslim-Americans. According to FBI training materials uncovered by Wired in 2011, the bureau taught agents to treat “mainstream” Muslims as supporters of terrorism, to view charitable donations by Muslims as “a funding mechanism for combat,” and to view Islam itself as a “Death Star” that must be destroyed if terrorism is to be contained.
John Guandolo, a former FBI counterterrorism official who takes credit for developing a training program for agents on the “Muslim Brotherhood and their subversive movement in the United States,” told The Intercept that he participated in investigations of some of the individuals whose email accounts were monitored. Echoing the “red under every bed” hysteria of the McCarthy era, Guandolo believes that “hundreds” of covert members of the Muslim Brotherhood are active in the United States, that some of them have succeeded in infiltrating the Pentagon, and that CIA director John Brennan is a secret Muslim.
Other former and current federal officials say such beliefs are not representative of the FBI or Justice Department. But blatant prejudice against Muslim-Americans is also documented in the Snowden archive.
In one 2005 document, intelligence community personnel are instructed how to properly format internal memos to justify FISA surveillance. In the place where the target’s real name would go, the memo offers a fake name as a placeholder: “Mohammed Raghead.”
The vast majority of individuals on the “FISA recap” spreadsheet are not named. Instead, only their email addresses are listed, making it impossible in most cases to ascertain their identities. Under the heading “Nationality,” the list designates 202 email addresses as belonging to “U.S. persons,” 1,782 as belonging to “non-U.S. persons,” and 5,501 as “unknown” or simply blank. The Intercept identified the five Americans placed under surveillance from their email addresses.
It is unclear whether the government obtained any legal permission to monitor the Americans on the list. The FBI and the Justice Department declined to comment for this story. During the course of multiple conversations with The Intercept, the NSA and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence urged against publication of any surveillance targets. “Except in exceptional circumstances,” they argued, surveillance directly targeting Americans is conducted only with court-approved warrants. Last week, anonymous officials told another news outlet that the government did not have a FISA warrant against at least one of the individuals named here during the timeframe covered by the spreadsheet.
The FISA process was enacted in 1978 in response to disclosures that J. Edgar Hoover and a long line of presidents from both parties had used U.S. intelligence agencies to spy on dissidents and political enemies. Intended to allow authorities to covertly investigate suspected spies or terrorists on U.S. soil, the surveillance is often used simply to gather intelligence, not to build a criminal case. The law was revised in 2008—in part to place limits on the controversial program of warrantless wiretaps initiated by George W. Bush after 9/11, and in part to legalize the program’s warrantless eavesdropping on Americans when they speak with foreign surveillance targets.
Under current law, the NSA may directly target a “U.S. person” (an American citizen or legal permanent resident) for electronic surveillance only with a warrant approved by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. Because the FISC operates in complete secrecy—only the Justice Department and the FBI are permitted to attend its proceedings on domestic surveillance—it is impossible to assess how the court applies the standard of “probable cause” in cases of suspected terrorism or espionage. But its rulings are notoriously one-sided: In its 35-year history, the court has approved 35,434 government requests for surveillance, while rejecting only 12.
Law enforcement officials familiar with the FISA process told The Intercept that the FISC’s high approval rate is the result of a thorough vetting process that weeds out weak applications before they reach the court. The system, they added, seeks to balance what they consider to be the essential role of surveillance in protecting national security with the civil liberties of potential targets. The NSA issued a statement that reads in part: “No U.S. person can be the subject of FISA surveillance based solely on First Amendment activities, such as staging public rallies, organizing campaigns, writing critical essays, or expressing personal beliefs.”

A selection from the FISA Recap spreadsheet; the highlighted entries are email accounts belonging to Nihad Awad (the cair.com address) and Faisal Gill (the Yahoo! and AOL addresses).
But legal experts have long expressed concern that the secretive nature of the FISA process makes it impossible to know what level of evidence is actually used to authorize surveillance, precisely what it means to be an agent of a foreign power, or whether there is any effective oversight to protect civil liberties. “We have very little idea what this probable cause standard means in individual FISA cases,” says Patrick Toomey, a staff attorney for the National Security Project of the American Civil Liberties Union. “No FISA application or order has ever been publicly disclosed, even to a criminal defendant or his lawyer in cases where the government later brings charges based on that FISA surveillance.”
A former Justice Department official involved in FISA policy in the Obama Administration says the process contains too many internal checks and balances to serve as a rubber stamp on surveillance of Americans. But the former official, who was granted anonymity to speak candidly about FISA matters, acknowledges that there are significant problems with the process. Having no one present in court to contest the secret allegations can be an invitation to overreach. “There are serious weaknesses,” the former official says. “The lack of transparency and adversarial process—that’s a problem.”
Indeed, the government’s ability to monitor such high-profile Muslim-Americans—with or without warrants—suggests that the most alarming and invasive aspects of the NSA’s surveillance occur not because the agency breaks the law, but because it is able to exploit the law’s permissive contours. “The scandal is what Congress has made legal,” says Jameel Jaffer, an ACLU deputy legal director. “The claim that the intelligence agencies are complying with the laws is just a distraction from more urgent questions relating to the breadth of the laws themselves.”
Government agencies have invoked a host of legal theories over the years to justify spying on Americans without obtaining individual FISA warrants. Prior to mid-2008, for example, the NSA could target Americans when they were located on foreign soil simply by obtaining an authorization from the attorney general. The NSA also relies on the so-called “FISA backdoor” to read the emails of Americans communicating with foreign targets without obtaining a warrant, and engages in the bulk collection of “metadata” from Internet service providers without individual warrants. In other cases, it can obtain a warrant against an entire organization—and then monitor the emails of individuals allegedly associated with the group.
While the NSA documents do not prove that the government has been systematically monitoring the communications of political dissidents, Jaffer notes that some of the most abusive surveillance practices carried out by the FBI during the 1960s were arguably legal at a time when many Americans believed that the groups targeted by Hoover’s FBI—including anti-government activists on the left and right—posed a threat to the country.
“Some of the government’s surveillance practices today are reminiscent of those earlier abusive practices,” Jaffer says. “Today’s American-Muslim activists occupy the same position that civil-rights and anti-war activists occupied during the 1960s.”
Current and former law enforcement officials reject that analogy, and say that the FISA process is too rigorous to permit any abuse. Still, several acknowledge that political speech is sometimes viewed as a sufficient reason to launch an investigation that can culminate in full-blown surveillance.
“If you are a political activist calling for violent jihad—yes, that could trigger an investigation,” says Marion “Spike” Bowman, the top FBI lawyer whose office handled all law enforcement requests for FISA surveillance under the Clinton and Bush administrations. Bowman stresses that such investigations are launched only when the bureau believes that speech has crossed the line into incitement.
When Edward Snowden turned over a trove of NSA documents last year, he explained that he included the spreadsheet of monitored emails because he wanted to give people subjected to electronic surveillance the opportunity to challenge the spying as unconstitutional. For years, the government has succeeded in having such challenges dismissed on the ground that the various plaintiffs lack standing to sue because they could not prove that they were personally targeted.
Thanks to Snowden’s disclosures, those seeking to obtain such a ruling now have specific cases of surveillance against American citizens to examine. So do those charged with reforming the FISA process. Richard Clarke, a former counterterrorism official in the Clinton and Bush administrations, served on the recent White House intelligence review panel convened to address concerns raised by the Snowden revelations. If he had seen the NSA spreadsheet, Clarke says, he would have asked more questions about the process, and reviewed individual FISA warrants.
“Knowing that, I would specifically ask the Justice Department: How many American citizens are there active FISAs on now?” he says. “And without naming names, tell me what categories they fall into—how many are counterterrorism, counterintelligence, espionage cases? We’d want to go through [some applications], and frankly, we didn’t. It’s not something that five part-time guys can do—rummage through thousands of FISA warrants.”
The “FISA recap” spreadsheet offers a revealing if incomplete glimpse into the murky world of government surveillance. Each email address is accompanied by a date that appears to denote the beginning of surveillance, and another that indicates when it was set to expire. A column called “Collection Status” indicates whether the surveillance was “terminated,” “sustained,” or “pending” as of a particular date. In some cases, the spreadsheet also names the federal agency that requested the surveillance, and a terrorist group, target, or foreign power affiliated with the email address. In addition, each address has a corresponding “Case Notation” code beginning with the prefix “XX.SQF”—a designation that, according to other documents in the Snowden archive, is assigned to all “FISA accounts” as a unique identifier.
The five Americans whose email accounts were placed on the list come from different backgrounds, and hold different religious and political views. None was designated on the list as connected to a foreign power. Some have come under sharp public scrutiny for their activities on behalf of Muslim-Americans, and several have been investigated by the government. But despite being subjected to what appears to be long periods of government surveillance, none has been charged with a crime, let alone convincingly linked to terrorism or espionage on behalf of a foreign power. Taken together, their personal stories raise disturbing questions about who the government chooses to monitor, and why.
Gill is an American citizen whose parents emigrated from Pakistan when he was eight years old. He grew up in Northern Virginia, earned a law degree from American University in 1996, and joined the U.S. Navy. As a boy, he had dreamed of flying with the Blue Angels, but was disqualified as a pilot for poor eyesight. Instead, he became a JAG officer.
After leaving the Navy, Gill worked as a consultant for the American Muslim Council, which was founded by the political activist Abdul Rahman al-Amoudi to encourage participation by American Muslims in the political process. A Republican since high school, Gill joined the Bush Administration in the aftermath of 9/11, eventually moving to the White House Office of Homeland Security, where he briefly worked with Richard Clarke and obtained a top-secret security clearance. After roughly a year, he joined the Department of Homeland Security as a senior policy adviser, where he was cleared to access sensitive compartmented information, a classification level reserved for some of the nation’s most closely held secrets.
In 2003, al-Amoudi was arrested for participating in a Libyan plot to assassinate Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah and for illegal financial transactions with the Libyan government, crimes for which he eventually pleaded guilty. Because Gill’s name had turned up in al-Amoudi’s papers, he was investigated by DHS security officials and asked not to report to work pending the outcome. He told investigators that he had met al-Amoudi only three or four times and didn’t work closely with him during his time at the American Muslim Council. After passing a polygraph test, Gill says, he was told by DHS that he was “good to go” and returned to work.
Not long after that incident, Salon reporter Mary Jacoby wrote an article accusing Gill of failing to disclose his freelance work for the American Muslim Council on his application for a security clearance. (The clearance form asked for former employers; Gill, who had previously disclosed the consulting job to the White House and on a separate publicly available ethics disclosure, says he did not think he was being asked to list his freelance work.) The DHS again investigated Gill, and again cleared him of any wrongdoing. “Our investigation found no evidence to suggest that you falsified or intentionally omitted relevant information,” the acting inspector general informed Gill in a 2005 letter. He continued at DHS, he says, with full security clearance.
After leaving the government, Gill founded a law firm with his friend Asim Ghafoor. The NSA spreadsheet indicates that a year later, in April 2006, the email surveillance began. The agency apparently began monitoring a second email account of Gill’s in May 2007, the year he secured the Republican nomination for a seat in the Virginia House of Delegates. During that campaign, hardline neoconservatives in his own party—inspired by the work of the anti-Islamic pundit Frank Gaffney—resurrected the accusations that Gill had concealed allegedly nefarious ties to a Muslim group, provoking an outpouring of anti-Muslim animus. With the GOP divided over Gill’s candidacy, he narrowly lost the general election in November.
That same year, Gill and Ghafoor traveled to Sudan to meet with government officials there about representing the country in U.S. court. Many family members of victims of Al Qaeda terror attacks were suing the government of Sudan for aiding the operations; the white-shoe law firm Hunton & Williams was representing Sudan in similar litigation over the USS Cole attack, and Ghafoor wanted to pitch his services on the other cases. Ghafoor was ultimately retained, and Gill performed contract work on one case.
While Gill and Ghafoor both ended up being surveilled, none of the Hunton & Williams lawyers who represented Sudan appear to be listed in the NSA spreadsheet. Also missing from the list is any apparent mention of the multitude of American, non-Muslim politicians who have represented foreign governments, including former House Majority Leader Dick Gephardt (Turkey), former Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole (United Arab Emirates), former Rep. Bob Livingston (Libya), and former Clinton adviser Lanny Davis (Honduras post-coup).
Under U.S. law, Gill’s legal work for the Sudanese government could not have been used to justify targeting him for surveillance, absent any other evidence. “Representation of a foreign government in legal matters by itself does not make a U.S. lawyer an agent of a foreign power,” NSA spokesperson Vanee Vines said in a statement. According to the NSA spreadsheet, Gill’s surveillance was terminated in February 2008.
Asked whether he believes he would have been monitored by the NSA if he were not Muslim, Gill is blunt. “Absolutely not,” he says. “Look, I’ve never made an appearance or been a lawyer for anyone who’s been [associated with terrorism]. But there are plenty of other lawyers who have made those appearances and actually represented those governments, and their name isn’t Faisal Gill and they weren’t born in Pakistan and they aren’t on this list.”
Gill says he is deeply concerned by what the NSA was able to collect. “I’m sure there was private stuff with my wife where we were arguing about stuff, as well as emails of a more private nature,” he says. “Things that obviously I don’t want anyone looking at.”
Gill knows he faces a personal and professional risk in agreeing to discuss the government’s surveillance of his emails. “Maybe people will say, ‘Hey he was being surveilled—the government must have some reason for doing it, especially if there’s a FISA warrant.’ There will be a lot of folks who will say it was justified and there’s something there. I’m sure it’ll have some sort of negative impact with clients, and who knows what else.”
Despite those concerns, Gill agreed to discuss the surveillance. “The real reason I’m talking to you is that I don’t have anything to hide,” he says. “I didn’t do anything wrong. I served my country, the whole time.”
Ghafoor was born in St. Louis in 1969. A first-generation American whose Muslim parents emigrated from India, he has been a lawyer for two decades.
In 1997, Ghafoor worked for a Texas state representative, Ciro Rodriguez, who won a special election to the U.S. Congress. Ghafoor moved to Washington and became Rodriguez’s legislative assistant. At the time, he says, he was only one of three Muslim staffers he knew of on Capitol Hill.
Ghafoor left government shortly before 9/11 to become a public relations consultant, lobbyist, lawyer, and civil rights advocate on behalf of American Muslims. In the climate of anxiety after the attacks, the need for representation and access for American Muslims in Washington rapidly expanded. Ghafoor became a prominent behind-the-scenes operator on Capitol Hill for the Muslim community.
In 2003, the Al Haramain Islamic Foundation, a Saudi charity, hired Ghafoor after its U.S. assets were frozen by the Treasury Department over claims that it funded terrorist operations. The government alleged that there were “direct links” between the U.S. branch of the charity and Osama bin Laden. Al Haramain had previously been represented by some of the biggest and most prestigious American law firms, including the D.C. powerhouse Akin Gump. Ghafoor’s work with Al Haramain led him to other controversial clients, including Mohammed Jamal Khalifa, a brother-in-law of Osama bin Laden who was the subject of FBI and CIA surveillance for years, as well as the government of Sudan.
In 2004, during the Al Haramain litigation, the Treasury Department accidentally provided one of the foundation’s lawyers with a top-secret call log showing that the government had been eavesdropping on Ghafoor’s calls with his clients. FBI agents quickly showed up to retrieve the document, and they took Ghafoor’s laptop for a week to “scrub” it of any trace of the classified information. At the time, neither Ghafoor nor Wendell Belew, the other attorney whose conversations were monitored, knew what to make of the log. The following year, when James Risen and Eric Lichtblau of The New York Times revealed the Bush Administration’s illegal wiretapping program, Ghafoor realized that his attorney-client conversations had been surveilled without a warrant.
“When I received a document that proved I had been tapped talking to my clients, I was shocked beyond belief,” Ghafoor recalls. “It’s like finding out there was a peeping tom. You just wonder: What else did they violate?”
The attorneys and Al Haramain sued the U.S. government, claiming that the eavesdropping violated their constitutional rights. After nearly five years of litigation, Ghafoor was awarded more than $20,000 in damages and the government was ordered to pay his legal fees of $2.5 million. Those judgments were later reversed on appeal, on the grounds that the law does not explicitly entitle those targeted by surveillance to damages from the government, even if they prove that the surveillance was illegal.
In a 2008 article that featured Ghafoor’s case, a Justice Department official told the Times that the government does not specifically target attorneys. “It’s not as if we’re targeting the lawyer for surveillance,” the official said. “It’s not like we’re eager to violate lawyer-client privilege. The lawyer is just one of the people whose calls from the suspect are being swept up.” Last February, in response to revelations that the NSA had monitored the communications of a U.S. law firm representing the government of Indonesia, then-NSA chief Keith Alexander assured the American Bar Association that the “NSA has afforded, and will continue to afford, appropriate protection to privileged attorney-client communications acquired during its lawful foreign intelligence mission.”
In Ghafoor’s case, however, the NSA appears to have gone beyond monitoring an attorney who represented clients in a case against the U.S. government. During the time he was monitored, from March 2005 until at least March 2008—at which point the NSA spreadsheet indicates that his surveillance was “sustained” for an unspecified period—Ghafoor was personally suing the government over its prior, illegal surveillance of his own communications.
The discovery that he was surveilled has not changed Ghafoor’s core views of his country. “I’m really proud to have grown up in the U.S.,” he says. “And if you ever tap my calls and read my emails you’ll see that even though I sued the government, I love my country. I love America.”
But Ghafoor has no doubts that he was placed under government surveillance because of his name, his religion, and his legal work. When he would go to court to represent Saudi interests, he points out, “there were over 40 lawyers from every blue-chip law firm in D.C. representing the Saudi government, Saudi princes—I’m not the only lawyer representing a foreign government.
“There were former Bush Administration officials representing Saudi entities, and I doubt their emails were tapped,” he continues. “And if they were, at some point some official would’ve said, ‘Why are we tapping [former Bush Justice Department official] Viet Dinh?’ I’d be shocked if they were tapping Viet Dinh. But Asim Ghafoor—’Oh, well he’s Muslim.’”
Saeed has lived in the U.S. since 1974, when, as a graduate student in Pakistan, he was accepted to Iowa State University. He became an American citizen in 1982, then received a second masters degree from the University of California at Berkeley and a joint Ph.D. from Berkeley and Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government. For years, he taught in the communications and political science departments at Berkeley and California State University in Hayward.
For two decades, Saeed’s political activism has been largely devoted to organizing American Muslims to register to vote and to participate in the political process: “I am an American, I am a Muslim, and I vote,” he declared in one 2003 speech. He founded the American Muslim Alliance, which The New York Times described in October 2001 as “the main organization devoted to the political assimilation of the nation’s seven million Arab-Americans.” By 2009, the group grew to more than 100 chapters in more than 30 states, and Saeed met with high-ranking officials from both political parties.
In 2000, as chair of the American Muslim Political Coordination Council Political Action Committee, a coalition of four major Muslim organizations, Saeed announced the group’s endorsement of George W. Bush for president.
On the day of the 9/11 attack, Saeed was in Washington, D.C. He was scheduled to meet that afternoon with President Bush in the White House, along with several other prominent American Muslim leaders. In the weeks after the attack, he was again invited by Bush to the White House. The Times described him as a symbol of moderation and assimilation who urged Arab-American cooperation with law enforcement authorities and preached “forbearance…to his constituents alarmed at all the investigative attention American Muslims have been garnering.”
Since 9/11, however, Saeed has emerged as a leading advocate against sweeping and secretive government surveillance. He was one of the principal organizers against the 2006 reauthorization of the Patriot Act, serving as a coordinator for the California Civil Rights Alliance, which persuaded the California legislature to enact a resolution calling for limitations on the law.
The only notable public controversy involving Saeed occurred in 2000, two days after the American Muslim Alliance announced its endorsement of Bush. The New York Daily News attempted to demonize a $50,000 donation the group made to Hillary Clinton’s Senate campaign by highlighting Saeed’s support for the right of Palestinians to armed resistance against occupation if peaceful means fail—a right affirmed in a series of resolutions by the United Nations General Assembly.
Yielding to pressure, Clinton quickly condemned the remarks and announced that she was returning the donation. Her GOP opponent, Rick Lazio, attacked her for receiving “blood money” and criticized her and her husband for having invited Muslim-Americans who opposed the Middle East peace process to the White House.
But even if Saeed had asserted that Palestinian violence is justified in response to Israeli occupation, such a statement could not legally be used to authorize surveillance under FISA. In the 1969 case Brandenburg v. Ohio, the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously ruled that “advocacy of the use of force” is protected by the First Amendment unless it is likely to incite imminent violence. In a statement to The Intercept, the NSA also emphasized that “no U.S. person can be found to be an agent of a foreign power based solely on activity protected by the First Amendment.”
According to the NSA spreadsheet, the agency’s surveillance of Saeed began in June 2007 and was still sustained as of May 2008.
Today, Saeed suffers from advanced Parkinson’s disease, making communications difficult. Via email, he told The Intercept that he believes he was placed on the NSA list because of his political activism and his friendship with controversial figures such as Sami Al-Arian, a former University of South Florida professor and activist who pleaded guilty to a conspiracy to aid the militant group Palestinian Islamic Jihad in a case that many civil libertarians regard as prosecutorial overreach motivated by anti-Muslim hysteria.
“The government is always looking for a pretext to surveil people who are critical of policy,” Saeed said by telephone, with the help of an interpreter who can decipher his muffled speech. “Now it has become common to accuse people of Islamist ties to do this; before, it was communism and leftists. The FBI has questioned me over both these things in my lifetime. In the 1980s they were suspicious of me over my opposition to arming Afghan Islamists; now they accuse me of being an Islamist.”
Awad is the co-founder and executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the nation’s largest Muslim civil rights organization. A Palestinian born in Jordan, he was naturalized as an American citizen and has lived in the U.S. for more than two decades.
Awad has worked with U.S. officials at the highest levels. In 1997, he served on Vice President Al Gore’s Civil Liberties Advisory Panel to the White House Commission on Aviation Safety and Security, and he has personally met with Presidents Clinton and Bush, as well as former Secretaries of State Madeleine Albright and Colin Powell, to discuss issues relating to the American Muslim community. A few days after 9/11, Awad was one of the few American Muslim leaders who participated in a press conference with President Bush at the Islamic Center of Washington.
“I’m outraged as an American citizen that my government, after decades of civil rights struggle, still spies on political activists and civil right activists and leaders,” says Awad. “I’m really angry that despite all the work that we have been doing in our communities to serve the nation, we are treated with suspicion.”
The bulk of CAIR’s work is devoted to protecting the civil liberties of Muslim-Americans. (Full disclosure: Glenn Greenwald, a co-author of this story, has given paid speeches before CAIR’s regional affiliates.) The group frequently provides legal counsel to those who believe their rights have been infringed, and litigates constitutional challenges to state and federal laws. Awad says he is particularly incensed about the surveillance given the close cooperation that CAIR has provided the U.S. government in denouncing violent extremism. “The government knows very well that I am not a foreign agent,” he says.
Despite its political moderation and relationship to federal law enforcement agencies, CAIR became a primary target of hardline neoconservatives after 9/11. In 2007, the Justice Department named the group as one of more than 300 “unindicted co-conspirators” in its controversial prosecution of the Holy Land Foundation, then the largest Muslim charity in the U.S., which was eventually convicted of providing material support to Hamas. The Justice Department later attempted to justify its inclusion of CAIR by referring to wiretap evidence showing that in 1993, a Palestinian advocacy group that prosecutors believed was linked to Hamas met in a Philadelphia hotel and talked about founding CAIR. In 1994, Awad voiced public support for Hamas—before the group’s campaign of suicide attacks against civilians and subsequent placement on the State Department’s terrorist list in 1997.
“I do not support Hamas,” Awad says today, pointing out that the group was not involved in terrorist activities at the time he made the statement. “It was not on the list of organizations that sponsor or conduct terrorism by the State Department. And when the organization took those acts, CAIR has condemned it, repeatedly.”
Awad’s surveillance appears to have coincided with the timing of the Holy Land Foundation case: It began in July 2006, and two other email accounts belonging to Awad were added in September and November of that year. The surveillance is marked “terminated” as of February 2008.
The government’s denunciation of CAIR as an “unindicted co-conspirator” cast the group in a nefarious light while denying it the opportunity to defend itself in court. It also caused the FBI to terminate its formal community outreach efforts with the group in 2008, despite the fact that, as The Christian Science Monitor reported, “CAIR itself has never been charged with any wrongdoing.”
Awad cites how much scrutiny the group has received, combined with the fact that it has never been charged with a crime, as proof of its purely civic and legal activities. “Our door has been open for 20 years,” he says. “The government—obviously from the scrutiny we have seen so far—they know everything. And they know perfectly well that we are a transparent, above-the-board, American, true success story.”
Nonetheless, CAIR and its leaders have been publicly maligned as terrorist supporters by the Muslim-focused fringes of the far right, led by activists such as Frank Gaffney, Pamela Geller, and Daniel Pipes. FBI sources told The Intercept that CAIR is still on the government’s “radar screen,” and it was one of the primary targets of a 2011 investigation led by GOP Rep. Peter King into what he called the “radicalization of the American Muslim community.” The New York Times denounced those hearings as spreading “fear and bigotry” and seemingly “designed to stoke fear against American Muslims,” while Slate labeled them “Muslim McCarthyism.”
“I think all Americans should be worried about NSA surveillance and the targeting of American Muslims,” Awad says. “Because if it is American Muslims today, it is going to be them next. ”
Amirahmadi is a professor at Rutgers University, where he has been on the faculty since 1983, and is the former director of the school’s Center for Middle Eastern Studies. He is also the founder and president of the American Iranian Council, a nonprofit group devoted to public policy research on the relationship between the U.S. and Iran, and the president of Caspian Associates, a consulting firm that works with developing nations.
The AIC is affiliated with many senior U.S. government officials and diplomats. Its honorary board includes former Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala and former Deputy Secretary of State Thomas Pickering, and its board of directors include former Senator J. Bennett Johnston and former Assistant Secretary of State Richard Murphy. Past directors include Cyrus Vance and Sargent Shriver. Vice President Joe Biden, Madeleine Albright, Secretary of State John Kerry, and Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel have all spoken at events organized by Amirahmadi.
Amirahmadi has dual citizenship as an American and an Iranian. A secularist, he has twice launched quixotic candidacies to become the president of Iran (in 2005 and again in 2013) as a statement against the Iranian political establishment. He was prevented both times from appearing on the ballot by the Guardian Council, which controls the election process in Iran.
Amirahmadi holds many Western liberal views, describing homosexuality as a “non-problem” and pledging during his last campaign to name a female vice president. He has said that “every Iranian citizen regardless of their religion, ethnicity, race, color, gender … are equal in front of the law.” He has been a strong advocate for improving ties between the U.S. and Iran, and he vehemently opposes any attempt by Iran to acquire a nuclear weapon. He also recognizes the validity of Israel’s right to exist as a sovereign state. “Israel is a reality,” he says. “It has to be recognized as a reality.”
But mixed in with those conventional pro-Western views, Amirahmadi has voiced substantial dissent from America’s foreign policy toward Iran. Much of his work within the U.S. foreign policy community, in fact, has been devoted to persuading high-level officials that sanctions against Iran, as well as external efforts to bring about regime change, will backfire. In 2007, he defended the regime of Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, claiming in an interview that Iranian connections to terrorism are a “myth” and that “Hezbollah and Hamas are not terrorist organizations, they are defending their country and their nations.” Last year conservative media outlets seized on those comments to mount a campaign against Hagel’s nomination as defense secretary, claiming that his association with Amirahmadi should disqualify him.
The Wall Street Journal editorial page and other neoconservative outlets also criticized Amirahmadi’s connections to the Alavi Foundation, a U.S. charity that federal investigators believe is controlled by Iran. The foundation donated money to Amirahmadi’s program at Rutgers, and has made similar contributions to Persian culture programs at Harvard University, Columbia University, and other schools.
Leaders in the Iranian expatriate community say privately that Amirahmadi cultivated ties to the Ahmadinejad regime in order to raise his profile as a potential broker of détente between the U.S. and Iran. The sources also note that he was in regular contact with the State Department over the past decade, and was an unlikely candidate for the role of foreign spy.
Amirahmadi, who does not self-identify as a Muslim and describes himself as an atheist, believes that the NSA surveillance was motivated by his diplomatic work, not his religious heritage. [Update: Although Amirahmadi used the word “atheist” to describe his religious identity to The Intercept, in a HuffPost Live interview on Wednesday, he said he prefers to be called a “secular Muslim.”] While he considers the surveillance to be illegal and has no objection to it being made public, he declined to comment further on the matter. His surveillance began in August 2007, with a second email account added in November of that year and a third in February 2008. The government’s apparent monitoring of Amirahmadi’s emails was still marked as “sustained” as of May 2008.
Even if the government obtained FISA warrants to monitor some or all of the five Muslim-Americans, the law’s standards do not always appear to be applied uniformly. More than a dozen former and current law enforcement officials contacted by The Intercept say that the process for seeking a FISA warrant is so bureaucratically complex and larded with privacy safeguards that it is essentially inviolate. If the surveillance court approved a warrant, they say, then the target must have deserved it.
“The Justice Department was notoriously difficult to get a FISA warrant through,” says Bowman, the top FBI lawyer for national security matters from 1995 to 2006. “They always wanted more than probable cause. And so they would frequently, at least 50 percent of the time, send it back [to the FBI] with questions.”
According to Bowman, whose office handled all requests for domestic FISA surveillance throughout the intelligence community, requests for warrants involve multiple stages of approval. Starting at an FBI field office, a request moves up through FBI supervisory agents at headquarters and attorneys at the bureau’s National Security Branch, then on to the Justice Department’s Office of Intelligence—with the various gatekeepers frequently rejecting applications or sending them back for further review. It is only once all the hurdles have been cleared, Bowman says, that the Justice Department prepares a formal application “package” for a judge with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.
Those packages, Bowman says, range anywhere from 35 to 150 pages. The warrant applications are supposed to establish probable cause that a target is an agent of a foreign power and is engaged in—or about to engage in—one of what Bowman calls the “three crimes” spelled out by the FISA statute: an actual or potential attack or other grave hostile act, sabotage or international terrorism, or clandestine intelligence activities. The standard for probable cause used by the court, Bowman adds, is “more than a suspicion, but less than a certainty.”
Taken together, he says, the hurdles and safeguards prevent any potential abuse. “I’ve never seen the FBI in my experience in the 11 years I was there, ever begin an investigation strictly on political issues,” Bowman says.
But one former law enforcement official paints a different picture of the process. FISC judges who approve the warrants, he says, often rely implicitly on the claims of the agents seeking them. “I got a lot of warrants signed by a judge at 2 a.m., in his pajamas in his living room. The judge would size you up, and if he believed you that you had probable cause, he would sign the warrant.”
One current senior federal prosecutor who has participated in high-level counterterrorism and intelligence cases also describes a looser standard for obtaining a FISA warrant. The process, he says, requires only that the government establish probable cause that the target meets a broad definition as an “agent of a foreign power”—not that they are actually engaged in terrorism, espionage, sabotage, or other criminal activity.
“If you are dealing with a foreign power, I don’t think you have any choice,” says the prosecutor. “I don’t believe it is realistic to say that you can only get a FISA when you have probable cause that an agent of a foreign power is committing a crime—because you’ll never know. And often the best way to figure out what is going on is not to prosecute them criminally, but to just watch what they do.”
Such a standard, law enforcement officials say, takes advantage of what amount to loopholes in the FISA law, which requires that warrants demonstrate probable cause that an agent of a foreign power is engaged in activities that “involve or may involve” criminal activity, are “about to involve” criminal activity, or constitute aiding someone who is. In a statement to The Intercept, an NSA spokesperson confirmed that warrants must demonstrate probable cause that targets “are or may be engaged in certain criminal activity … on behalf of a foreign power.”
Asked how many Americans could currently be under FISA surveillance given the looser guidelines he cites, the prosecutor is unequivocal. “I would think it would be a large number of people,” he says.
Whatever the merits of the process, it is clear that at least some of the law enforcement officials involved in it harbored conspiratorial and bigoted views about Americans of Muslim descent. John Guandolo, the former counterterrorism agent who was active at the time several of the five identified Americans were monitored, provides a candid view of that mindset. Asked by The Intercept about the men, he responded with a series of uncorroborated accusations, suggesting that many of them are part of a vast Muslim conspiracy to infiltrate and topple the United States from within.
To hear Guandolo tell it, Faisal Gill, the former homeland security official under Bush, was “a major player in the Muslim Brotherhood in the United States.” Asim Ghafoor, Gill’s fellow attorney, is “a jihadi” who was “directly linked to Al Qaeda guys” simply because of his representation of the Al Haramain Foundation. “He had knowledge of who they were and what they were doing,” Guandolo says. (Such logic would subject every lawyer representing defendants accused of terrorism to government surveillance.) To Guandolo, Agha Saeed was yet another secret operative for the Muslim Brotherhood. “He’s a pretty senior guy with them,” Guandolo says, “affiliated with several groups.” (“That’s a big lie,” Saeed says, “and given my life history, absurd” because he has “always been a leftist.”)
Such far-fetched accusations don’t bear serious scrutiny, given Guandolo’s increasingly bizarre and paranoid views since leaving the FBI. (Last year, for instance, he told a talk-radio host that CIA director John Brennan secretly converted to Islam and is a tool of Saudi intelligence.) But during his tenure at the FBI, Guandolo worked on cases to obtain FISA warrants, and his anti-Islamic views were deemed acceptable enough to be reflected in basic training materials within the bureau.
Numerous other current and former agents interviewed about the surveillance process say it’s possible that the overseas connections and political beliefs of the five Americans played a role in arousing suspicions. They cite Ghafoor’s representation of Al Haramain at a time when it was under so many terrorism investigations, and Amirahmadi’s ties to Iran at a time when the country was a major target of NSA surveillance because of its suspected nuclear weapons program and support for terrorist organizations.
One former FBI counterterrorism agent also said that Saeed’s speech echoing the UN resolution on Palestinian armed resistance likely helped lead the bureau to launch an investigation against him, although the government surveillance began seven years after that statement. While the comments alone wouldn’t have been enough to secure FISA authorization for electronic surveillance, the remarks may have been viewed as sufficient to get the process started.
Law enforcement officials say that the FBI’s interest in Gill was likely sparked by the smear campaign waged against him by neoconservatives. And they also cite Nihad Awad’s political comments and connections—including the public support that he offered for Hamas and the accusations against CAIR stemming from the Holy Land Foundation Case—as enough in the FBI’s eyes to merit an investigation that could lead to surveillance.
Asked about the document that refers to a potential target of FISA surveillance as a “raghead,” an NSA spokeswoman said the agency “has not and would not approve official training documents that include insulting or inflammatory language. Any use of racial or ethnic stereotypes, slurs, or other similar language by employees is both unacceptable and inconsistent with NSA policy and core values.”
The Justice Department did not respond to repeated requests for comment on this story, or for clarification about why the five men’s email addresses appear on the list. But in the weeks before the story was published, The Intercept learned that officials from the department were reaching out to Muslim-American leaders across the country to warn them that the piece would contain errors and misrepresentations, even though it had not yet been written.
Prior to publication, current and former government officials who knew about the story in advance also told another news outlet that no FISA warrant had been obtained against Awad during the period cited. When The Intercept delayed publication to investigate further, the NSA and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence refused to confirm or deny the claim, or to address why any of the men’s names appear on the FISA spreadsheet. Prior to 2008, however, FISA required only an authorization from the attorney general—not a court warrant—for surveillance against Americans located overseas. Awad frequently travelled to the Middle East during the timeframe of his surveillance.
Whatever the specific reasons and methods used to monitor the five men’s emails, the surveillance against them took place during the chaos and fear that enveloped the national security community in the years after 9/11. The Clinton Administration had avoided investigating potential links between Muslim charities and suspected terrorists, and the FBI was scrambling to catch up and scrutinize dozens of organizations on the orders of the Bush Administration. Those probes led to some prosecutions and convictions, but they also generated a huge backlash of criticism for targeting innocent groups. One former law enforcement official said that, while the FBI was diligent in trying to hew to the law, there may have been “some missteps” along the way.
Those missteps have landed heavily on Americans of Muslim heritage. Even when the surveillance process is overseen by officials and judges who don’t share the Islamophobic mindset of John Guandolo, mainstream and constitutionally protected forms of activism by American Muslims have come to be seen by some within the intelligence community as potentially dangerous—a dynamic that raises the potential for abuse, especially when warrants are issued in secret and authorized by a law that gives wide latitude to those seeking them. A Washington Post report earlier this week found that the government used FISA procedures to intercept and retain vast amounts of private data belonging to “ordinary internet users” who had no evident connection to terrorism or espionage and had been “caught in a net the [NSA] had cast for somebody else.”
Asim Ghafoor says his first-hand experience working on behalf of other Muslim-Americans has led him to believe that “the U.S. government embarked on a very systematic approach” to target his community.
“I saw the government specifically go after Muslim people who were involved in certain activities such as charity work, humanitarian work, political activism,” he says. “Maybe they had some website that had some speeches that nobody ever read or even noticed, maybe they had some bloodcurdling speeches. So the government just treated you like you were blowing up the next tower. They treated you like you were going to be the Manchurian Candidate, you were going to destroy America from within. There were U.S. attorneys, FBI agents, DHS agents, customs agents all over the country that were trying to find the next terror cell in their midst. If you were involved in those activities and maybe you were on a student visa and you didn’t quite fill out the paperwork, you were hosed. There is no question about it, you were worse off than a migrant worker in Dubai. You were just packed up and sent home. Life became very, very unbearable for them.”
Even a U.S. citizen like Faisal Gill, who served his country both in the armed forces and in the White House, found himself spied on by his own government. “I was a very conservative, Reagan-loving Republican,” he says. “If somebody like me could be surveilled, then [there are] other people out there I can only imagine who are under surveillance.
“I went to school here as a fourth grader – learned about the Revolutionary War, learned about individual rights, Thomas Jefferson, all these things,” he continues. “That is ingrained in you – your privacy is important. And to have that basically invaded for no reason whatsoever – for the fact that I didn’t do anything – I think that’s troubling. And I think that certainly goes to show how we need to shape policy differently than it is right now.”
Josh Meyer, who is the McCormick Lecturer in National Security Studies at the Medill School of Journalism and co-author of The Hunt for KSM: Inside the Pursuit and Takedown of the Real 9/11 Mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, contributed reporting to this story.
no denying that a huge faction of muslims believe in the establishment and success of a world Islamic caliphate! We have known heard and read about that it for years… what’s a free thinking society supposed to do….? when religious dogmatic death dealers are getting stronger and more determined. We are already behind in knowledge of them and their push for domination of other peoples!
The U.S media needs to stop portraying Muslims as terrorists and needs to stop commiting crimes in the name of Islam. Islam does not support terrorism and all these ignorant comments and stereotypes about Muslims makes me laugh. Are you serious? I am a Muslim too and I do not want to kill people; that is ridiculous because who in their right mind would want to hurt someone. Islam, Judaism and Christianity are all linked to eachother as they are an abrahamic religion.
I agree with the US Government spying on Muslim American leaders. We cannot risk missing key communications and exchanges between mosques in the U.S. and terrorist groups abroad.
There is a video in this page that can only be played using Adobe Flash Player. Come on The Intercept! I want to watch the video!
just f–k US government and US president obumble. US government became so pathetic. I do not say I am US citizen when travel abroad, too embarrassed to say Im US citizen.
Can you provide a link to the entire FISA database of who was being monitored? Or just send me the file as an attachment. Thank you.
me too… please
It is not right if u go to school in United States ,u know your rights I grow up and studied in Pakistan through out still know these civil violations make u sick.I will add some more stuff into it that people spying on u r feel and take u as enemy when spying on u.My experience is they just not spy on u they also come in your house while u r working and add poison in your food that poison works as slow poison that make you feel that your organss r begin to die.They also have some techniques that make you more aggressive and mad so u act bad and it proof u as bad citizens.
Whatever they r planning it’s not working and they r messing up wherever they go from Iraq to Afghanistan ,Libya to palistine and almost all Middle East .
In my opinion they should stop immediately this false playing don’t kill us if u want oil from Middle East pay and get it. As American we r ready to pay couple cents more than dieing. Plz don’t kill us for gasoline.
Why viewers still use to read news papers when in this technological globe everything is presented on web?
Aw, this was a very nice post. Spending some time and actual effort to create a top notch article… but what can I say… I procrastinate a lot and don’t seem to get nearly anything done.
Hi there! This is my 1st comment here so I just wanted to give a quick shout out and say I genuinely enjoy reading your blog posts. Can you recommend any other blogs/websites/forums that go over the same subjects? Many thanks!
Hi, this weekend is pleasant in support of me, for the reason that this time i am reading this impressive educational paragraph here at my house.
Is this a misguided respect for privacy or self-censorship on the part of Mr. Greenwald? Or has it not occurred to the journalist that if he published the email addresses, at least some of the addresses could be identified by their owners? I, for one, would like to know if I was on the list, and I would think that if Greenwald could not establish the identity, what is the risk of a less enterprising reporter doing so? The NSA already knows who it belongs to, so what is the danger? What is the shame?
Holly warriors of god the time for the holly jihad in america has arrived to punish and to kill all the infidel devils ,the entire us goverment so gods will.Every jihadist will be rewarded by god in PARADISE.Also every freedomfighter,anarchist, or lone wolf shall target the white house,pentagon and every federal instution in america,asimetric warfare ,kill the enrire us goverment and let god sort them out,Death to america.comrade,freedomfighter,zsolz sass
You are either a mole, or an idiot… or perhaps both.
You just made the case for spying on Muslims in America.
I would like to thank you for the efforts you have put in writing this site. I am hoping to view the same high-grade content from you in the future as well. In truth, your creative writing abilities has inspired me to get my own, personal blog now ;)
Hello, Mr. Greenwald. I am “America’s Most Censored: Mary Neal.” Not only am I spied on, but many of my communications are prevented (ingress and egress). I have proof that I cannot go online without four other Internet I.D.s going online with me. I want to know if my email address is on your list. My targeting grew much worse in 2009 and later, but it did start before 2008 when my primary email address was mneal000@yahoo.com. Other email addresses I used were mln@wrongfuldeathoflarryneal.com and the email address I primarily use now MaryLovesJustice@gmail.com. I became a target when I sought information and justice for the secret arrest and murder of my mentally, physically disabled brother Larry Neal and began to advocate for other disabled Americans through my org, Assistance to the Incarcerated Mentally Ill. I have even had agents to communicate with me through email by using the email addresses of my friends. See http://justicegagged.blogspot.com/2011/11/americas-most-censored-mary-neal.html for more information. Please check your list for me. I am planning to take my brother’s murder and the abuses and murders of other Americans with mental disabilities (continuous, recurring crimes against humanity) before the United Nations.
Asim Ghafoor stated that his surveillors sent him transcripts of intercepted communications by mistake. I also received an email sent to me by mistake from my surveillors; A person I was thinking about hiring sent a completely unrelated document obtained from my personal email account to another completely unrelated(supposedly) individual whom I was in communication with; the accompanying message was very hostile and intrusive, evident of government collusion.
This was the year that I was pulled over and had my entire car searched 9 times within a 1 year period for no reason at all. I’m not talking about just getting stopped, they made me stand on the side of the road and went through my entire car 9 separate times in a single year, taking about an hour each time for no reason at all; usually being very disrespectful, cursing and sometimes grabbing, shoving, and making me get on the ground. They sited “just a random search” and then let me go every time. It occurred in different states, with different vehicles from different law enforcement agencies.
This was also the year I ceased my business because of overwhelmingly obvious government “prevention” including catching them red handed intercepting my phone calls pretending to be corporate buyers as well as interfering with other phone calls and business activities. I believe if there was zero government interference my company would have around 80 billion dollars today. My company was highly nationalistic and precision politically correct.
I had worked on freelance internet sales tirelessly the next 3 months saving around $35,000 to emigrate for a better life. That money was immediately stolen using very illegal high-tech methods.
I am a simple solitary individual, with no friends or family contact. I probably appeared a very easy target.
Having my money repeatedly stolen (in one way or another) I was then somehow forced to move within 1 block of a fusion center “somehow” (which I found out was located there just months ago). I said when I moved there “it feels like they’re forcing me move here for some reason”. They then immediately poisoned and attempted to assassinate me (again) in the woods by that location, leaving me severely tortured and mutilated with brain damage.
I then spent 2012 going into 21 embassies and consulates as well as 39 different religious organizations in person in the u.s. and canada requesting assistance with asylum.
A couple of months after returning to u.s. from a peculiar incident in a canadian refugee center forcing my departure, with the only intention of quickly gathering enough money to leave for a safe country; I attempt to legally purchase a gun after passing 2 background checks, with around 25 hours of gun safety classes and being told I’m 100% legal to own a gun by a gun store owner. During a private transaction from an online ad about 20 fbi swarmed and arrested me.
What’s so interesting is that they were trying as hard as they could to force me to meet in a crowded McDonalds parking lot on a Sunday morning to do the transaction! (which luckily I kept firmly refusing to do) Obviously the news organizations would be interested in why 20 agents needed to swarm a crowded McDonalds on a Sunday morning involving a gun and someone placed on a “terrorist watch list”(by r1b’s). I’m assuming they’d had to blow me away to stop me from explaining the contents of the U.N. Human Rights Abuse report involving them I filed just a few weeks prior.
I only bought the gun in the first place because they were showing me they were reading every one of my emails and strongly indicating they were about to have me tortured again. I wanted them to know I bought a gun online so they’d leave me and my family alone and keep their distance.
After firing the first 2 and trying to fire the third r1b court appointed lawyers, they end up giving me 2 years incarceration/supervision and never let me tell a single bit of my side of the story in court forcing me to plead guilty to “possession of a firearm by a prohibited person” while EVERY SINGLE TINY THING they said in court was a lie or a compound lie, lies on top of lies on top of lies every single tiny detail of every single thing.
It’s interesting to note that when they arrested me I went exactly 125 hours without eating or drinking a single thing at all, not even a single drop of water. They then threatened to drug me, beat me, strap me to a chair and force feed me, then leave me there strapped in the chair for days.
They said the reason I was “prohibited” (from owning a gun) in the first place (ignoring the federal background checks) was because of an incident that occurred 12 years prior when two plain clothes r1b’s in a regular little old beater car pulled over and tried to kidnap me at gunpoint, when I screamed so loud trying to get away and drew a crowd they were forced to abort the kidnapping attempt and they pulled out badges! they were cops! I was sitting there for 8 months with the charge of resisting arrest.
They gave me some evidence discs in federal court showing how they were stalking me with 8 federal agents per day plus an entire “team of local agents”. They showed how they went through every page of ever website that I visited, every phone call and were recording phone content, email content, text messages etc, every turn I made in my car for months. (They seemed to just cut out the part where I called literally every civil rights attorney in the city and other cities….)
They are not recording truth or any accurate information at all when they spy, they only record manufactured lies, “half sentences” out of context and high-tech defamatory incidents they intentionally force one after another on the predetermined target which is not confined to Muslims at all.
There is not a single incident on my record that is true, every arrest or other incident is based on lies by the same entity. I feel I have never done anything wrong in my life, if there were impartial witnesses to each of these events the orchestrators would easily be charged with hate crimes every single time.
Because of a “supervision” period they’re forcing me to stay in this country for the year and endure the systematic continuous human rights, civil rights and constitutional rights violations and in need (non-r1b) medical treatment for my injuries.
It’s hard to have a realistic expectation that these words even actually appear on international internet because of continuing violations as horrific as that sounds.
-they also didn’t let me make a single phone call before my first court appearance which was 24 hours later.
-I meant “I was a simple solitary individual and had little friends or family contact at the time”, not “I am a simple solitary individual, with no friends or family contact”.
I didn’t read past the 1st paragraph:
” The National Security Agency and FBI have covertly monitored the emails of prominent Muslim-Americans—including a political candidate and several civil rights activists, academics, and lawyers—under secretive procedures intended to target terrorists and foreign spies.”
And, what makes you think Mr. Greenwald; Mr. Hussain that they aren’t, Sirs?
Well, you’re excused from this exercise, Mr. Hussain, as you know damn well that they ARE, don’t you.
Glenn, Glenn, Glenn…
Remember the Aesop-like (if not in actuality) tale of the Scorpion and the Frog? The Scorpion “begged the Frog to carry him across a river on his back” (do NOT remember if money or other remuneration was considered. hm. If NOT, why should the frog take ANY risk at all?? Anyway…)…
“HEH!! Says the Frog, “I know a bit or two of THAT!! You’ll stab me in the back, you will!!”
“That’s NUTS”, replies the Scorpion, “I’d be doing mySELF(!) in because I’d be going down with you!!”
After a brief ‘mulling’, the Frog HAD to admit “that’s true” (the money thing SHOULD come in here but I don’t remember any) and, finally, the Frog allows the Scorpion to climb on his back.
After they were out in the middle of the river, the Scorpion, as the Frog feared, did indeedy stab him one in the back.
“But, but, but… You’re going to die yourself, you damned fool!!” Croaked the Frog as he neared Death and sank into the dark waters…
“WTF would you do THAT for, anyway??”
“Well” the Scorpion said, thoughtfully, as he, too began to enter the cold depths to drown, “Its my true Nature.”
I forgot what the point was but I Hope it makes an impression on you when the time comes when it would have been relevant, had I been there to remind you.
Say Hello to your Friend, Mr. Hussain.
@ron blowhard: paranoid much? or just an NSA troll?
This article does not surprise me. In 2010 when the extreme mind control torture began, I did some research in trying to identify the strange light-emitting millimeter-sized objects that were falling on top of my head and saturating my immediate living environment. Among the things that I did, was ‘google’ my own name.
To my horror, someone had posted online that “…Pat Burhan***** is from the Middle East”. The truth? I am a black South African female with no Middle Eastern blood or relations, and speak no Arabic. And have yet to visit the Middle East. My marriage last name sounded Middle Eastern to the torturers, which apparently was more than sufficient to justify the abuse.
I am as Middle Eastern as Brandon Mayfield, a Portland, Oregon lawyer falsely implicated in a Madrid bombing some years back, apparently because of his marriage to a law-abiding woman of Egyptian descent.
Since Amirahmadi prefers that you don’t identify him as atheist why not respect his wish. “Atheist” label would impede his activity, particularly with theocratic regime in Iran.
They don’t just spy on prominent people. They spy on OLD POOR people also.The N.S.A. has stalked this old man for almost three and a half years.My congressman’s staff was emotionally moved when they saw the damage done to my personal property.I plan to join the cammpayn opposing congressman Sennsennbrenner.He will lose votes when the people hear my story. John Bertotto
May we please be afforded a way to sort the comments in Date Order? Please?
Otherwise, thanks for keeping up the good work!
Good call Amy. Too bad there wasn’t a way to filter out the ignorant rants as well. Some of them seem too surreal to be from real people. Cointelpro much?
@Howard: i wondered about that too…several strange rantings….seemingly very surreal…
Know History……no surprises, USA has always supported the killers Latin America to Bahrain USA have always been the NAZIS, White Eugenics.
Himmler 1938..”in final analysis, it is the White man´s domination of the world.”
Even 20 years ago we had real privacy. Our letter mail could not be opened. Our phones could not be tapped. There was no capability to watch or listen to us everywhere.
There is now.
Want an eye-opener about just a little of ‘what was possible’ 20 years ago…?
Watch (or re-watch) a 1998 film, “Enemy of the State” w/Gene Hackman and Will Smith.
“Standard Training Op…”
A follow-up to this article. From today’s SF Chronicle, main editorial, so at least some media outlets seem to have picked up on this.
http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/editorials/article/U-S-spying-on-Muslim-Americans-a-cause-for-5618959.php
muslims are the scum of the earth. All need to be watched, and if it were up to me, imprisoned. Or, assign each one to a left wing newspaper worker.
too bad they don’t have a “flag for abuse” function…because your comments are abusive to Muslims…most of whom are not a threat to anyone, except your paranoid delusions.
Tell that to the Christians that have had their head cut off for being Christian!
What the west doesn’t understand about Islamic fundamentalism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK74vhqzeeQ#t=775
The fact that you have used the term “Islamic fundamentalism” is a clear indication that you’re viewing Islam through the thick glasses of Christianity.
The term ‘fundamentalism” is suited more for Christianity than it is for Islam.
In case of Islam, every single Muslim is expected to accept certain fundamental tenets and carry out certain fundamental actions.
For example, consciousness that the Reality that encompasses and permeates all other realities is One.
Performing the five daily formal prayers; fasting in the month of Ramadan, if physically capable of, or paying money to a needy one, if physically incapable of fasting; act in a charitable way, with money, time and effort; going to Mecca for the Pilgrimage if one has the means and ability to do so.
These fundamentals of Islam are meant to groom the self so that it reflects the higher qualities, such as love, selflessness, generosity, etc., and to allow it to detach itself from the transient.
Language is a powerful tool to communicate and convey thoughts and meanings.
Therefore, the bombardment of certain words and phrases with respect to Islam has created a lot of confusion about its realities and an atmosphere of fear and hatred, which often extends to ordinary, law-abiding and peaceful Muslims, because some of their actions, such as praying, are misconstrued.
That said, I’ve often stated that Islam is a mosaic of various currents and cultures. That, it is not monolithic. And that, there do exist currents within it that are bad to evil, while most are benign, and some are exceptionally good.
One will notice that the ones that are are bad/evil have actually moved away from the most fundamental (pun intended) principle/quality: Love
See “Divine Love: Islamic Literature and the Path to God” by William Chittick, at http://www.amazon.com/Divine-Love-Islamic-Literature-Path/dp/0300185952/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1405289261&sr=1-1&keywords=william+chittick
I think you just said exactly what the woman in the video said. Killing women for trying to get an education is not love.
But when the West’s War Machine kills whole families while they sleep, whole wedding parties in their celebrations, and then bombs the rescuers who come to aid the injured, that, THAT, that killing is love!
You’re a perverted ignoramus, larry.
So true, Seer. Not at all like flying airplanes into buildings.
Attention, citizens: The Federal Bureau of Investigation reserves the right to investigate any person or persons not acting in the proper medieval christian manner. That is all.
There have been a lot of great comments about this article. This is a test post to see if my comments are being posted.
I have been getting stalked and harassed 24/7 by someone using the Satellite Surveillance System and other microwave radiation weapons since 1984. They keep accusing me of being someone named Mina, and they brag that they are stealing all of my promotions. They also keep telling me I have no future. Whoever is using the Satellite Surveillance System on me is using it illegally for personal gain, and they are obviously extremely jealous of me. I graduated college in 1994 with a B.S.B.A. degree, and I have a clean record. I have never participated in any foreign scams. Everything they are doing is 100 percent illegal and unconstitutional.
Perhaps you could describe your situation to an investigative journalist? Try to get any proof that you can, for example, video your computer screen whilst you are using it. Maybe GG can help you.
Perhaps you could describe your situation to a psychiatrist so you won’t end up like Aaron Alexis.
1. Article about Spying on Muslim Americans:
Too little too late. By Glenn’s promises and the expectations he set — this article so under delivered to such a degree that it’s disgusting. It reflects very poorly on the intercept. Almost amateurish. Child-like.
2. 2nd Article (on the same day) Reaction to this spying on Muslim Americans.
What the hell are you guys doing? The article reacting to the spying on the same day as the first article? That is ridiculous and laughable. This article is even more childish than the first.
I thought you guys were about reporting the news. This second article smacks of inappropriate manipulation by Glenn and the intercept. Almost as if the draftIng of this second article was written at the same time as the 1st article.
What the hell are y’all doing. Just so you know … Most people are laughing at this total bullshit. Also, the overly wordy: article titles, article content, and on screen explanations need to be completely tightened up. Do you realize how stupid and unprofessional this makes you look, Glenn is so wordy, his articles lack credibility and he looks very unprofessional. He’s never going to be considered a true journalist until he cleans up his acts. Stop acting like a blogger and start acting like a journalist. He really needs to take a page out of Barton Gellman’s book. The mainstream media has a lot of faults which Glenn points out. But you have to admit that Gellman’s reporting, and his excellent writing style, is something the intercept is lacking big time.
On top of all of this. Someone needs to put a leash on Glenn Greenwald. All the delays, the stupid explanations by him, the hyper-defensiveness. All the blah blah blah, and also the eventually started to suck book tour. And his almost constant twitter feed .. Almost all day long. Preaching and obsessing on a whole bunch of topics that have nothing to do with the articles we sat around forever, waiting for Glenn to deliver. What the hell is Glenn doing with all this free time? Looks VERY bad.
Whether Glenn likes it or not, he took a leadership position on the NSA matter. All of this bullshit, plus the total bullshit (and full of shit) twitter feed are eating away at his credibility and yours. All of this crazy behavior is hurting the cause. You guys need to clean up your shit .. Or just shutdown the intercept. It seems like you have no idea what you’re doing. If that’s really the case, then do us all a favor and shut the thing down. Who needs adversaries when we have the current Glenn Greenwald 1.0. I’m sure the Washington post, the NSA, the congress are watching with amazement as Glenn trashes himself, all of you, the intercept, Omidyar and the the entire movement.
At this point, your organization looks like a joke.
You are certainly entitled to express your opinion Brainstorm which has been decreed from the lofty realm of a self-appointed god.
There are, however; some people, which have not self-relegated themselves to your higher plain in the intelligence community. Speaking only for myself (one of the lowly ones), I disagree completely with your mighty opinion and wonder exactly what position you hold in “the entire movement” to which you refer.
I appears to me, that the “joke” is on you.
It would be slightly inaccurate to claim FBI and NSA surveillance programs have been focusing on Muslim or even authentic terrorism.
The surveillance of the whole German population, German businesses and German female chancellor evidently negate that simplistic claim.
Beside, I am evidence that the insidious global Intellectual Properties thieving NSA has been mass surveilling a German environmental Atheist and small business owner according to the admittance of the FBI since 2011. An illegal surveillance which not only constitute discrimination of businesses by nationality, to the disregard of business secrecy and disregards of the rights to business privacy, but led to my business having to fend for our Intellectual Property against some insidiously thieving too big to jail U.S. ultra rightwing tech Corporations ( Paypal/ Ebay. Whois, Cincinnati Bell etc.,).
For the Record: Yes, the Government Really Did Trash-Talk Our FISA Story
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/12/yes-government-really-try-undermine-fisa-story-response-washington-post/https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/12/yes-government-really-try-undermine-fisa-story-response-washington-post/
This is why tenure, especially at universities, is so important. You can always find an incompetent professor to “prove” that t enure has to go. Having an incompetent on the payroll is no real harm. Take them out of the classroom and give them something useful to do. Incompetents exist everywhere. The importance and value of protecting thought leaders who are deemed controversial at US universities out weighs the harm caused by a handful of incompetents. Remember, the Nazis came for the intellectuals first. It’s not an accident that those being monitored are professors at important, large US colleges like Rutgers The State U of NJ which is one of the largest, most ethnically diverse public universities in the country. There is a large educated, affluent Indian population all around Rutgers and big pharma.
Burkas, female genital mutilation, forced marriage of little girls, theological basis of hatred toward non-Muslims, endless suicide bombers, murdering of anti polio health care workers, shooting in the head of little girls for wanting to go to school, human shields, Nairobi, Mumbai, 276 girls disappear, Bali, Southern Thailand, Nigeria, Timbuktu, Beslan, and the list could go on – stick your head in the sand – nothing to look at here.
Yes, agreed, very bad behavior, and on the other side, all purity and light… in the form of the recent destruction of an entire country based on lies, destruction of democracy movements around the world, support for right wing dictators around the world, terrorist death drones from the skies in multiple countries, brutal for-profit prisons to house the highest incarceration levels anywhere, destruction of our earth, air, and water for financial gain, supporting the brutal terrorist state of Israel, the extinction of thousands of species, the disruption of our climate, the only country to ever use nuclear weapons, where torturers and murderers go free if they are part of the CIA or Blackwater and those who steal a candy bar, or enroll their child in a school outside of their district go to prison. A small list for you, there are pages more…. doubt you give a shit though.
Sigh!
Comments like yours always sadden me, for they zoom in on a small part of a much bigger scene and extrapolate that what the seer is seeing through a 12000 mm lens is what they’ll also see with a 15 mm 180 degree fisheye lens, without bothering to mount that fisheye lens on their full-frame DSLR and seeing through it to view and capture the entire scene.
Are some people really that stup*d?
“Are some people really that stup*d?”
I think that brainwashed is the term for the resulting stupidity.
Yah, I’m goin’ with brainwashed, too.
ADDENDUM:
By the way, many women wear the burka on their own, often in defiance of the family pressures to not wear it.
Also, there’s no “theological basis of hatred toward non-Muslims”.
As an eminent Muslim scholar has stated:
“The different religions are like so many languages speaking of that unique Truth as it manifests itself in different worlds according to its inner archetypal possibilities, but the syntax of these languages is not the same.”
—— “Knowledge and the Sacred” by Seyyed Hossein Nasr
Nice try Sulfi Muslim but Bob Smith is so filled with programmed hatred and bigotry that he will not understand your finer points.
Stated differently, all humans are equal by birth-right and customs associated with religious philosophy should have no impact upon another human’s birth-right to make any choice. There is room for all types on Planet Earth except for those that would impose their will on another.
I am American, and have no religious or political affiliation. In fact…I strongly believe that the powers of Church and State must be kept separate.
Hang in there.
There’s a Sufi saying: There are as many ways to the Truth as there are hearts.
This is often interpreted to mean that every single human being is on a unique path of self discovery, since the Truth is already within us.
When we reflect on it and are transformed by it, we can’t help but love and respect others.
Actually, there’s no otherness.
As for the marriage between religion and politics, I’d say that it produces devastating results.
However, I’m of the opinion that even politics, be it national or international, needs to be encompassed within universally accepted high moral values, to produce good results, values, such as, not doing to others what one doesn’t want done unto one, selflessness, generosity, love, peace, forgiveness, etc.
These high values, I reckon, transcend religious, non-religious and cultural boundaries, as their positive nature and understanding, is already built into our consciousness.
“These high values, I reckon, transcend religious, non-religious and cultural boundaries, as their positive nature and understanding, is already built into our consciousness.”
This is the universal ethic to which I subscribe and I am grateful that you do as well.
Thanks Sulfi Muslim, for walking the true path.
This is a big disappointment. I want to see the other emails. None of mine are likely on there. But you never know.
“But even if Saeed had asserted that Palestinian violence is justified in response to Israeli occupation, such a statement could not legally be used to authorize surveillance under FISA…”
Hmm, could there be more to it than his statement?
“He told The Intercept that he believes he was placed on the NSA list because of his political activism and his friendship with controversial figures such as Sami Al-Arian, a former University of South Florida professor and activist who pleaded guilty to a conspiracy to aid the militant group Palestinian Islamic Jihad”
Well there’s your problem! “Friendship with controversial [i.e. terrorist] figures.”
@ Death to Traitors:
Frankly I feel more terrorized by people like you, who seem to equate religious affiliation with the concept of terror and/or terrorists. In case you haven’t figured this out yet….the “War on Terror” was literally fabricated by the political puppets in Washington DC to advance the economic interests of the Global Banking Cartel….otherwise known as the “elite” or .001% of the World population.
If you want to target a group for war crimes start with them.
Terrorist affiliation, not religious affiliation. The guy pleaded guilty to a conspiracy to aid Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Political Correctness resulted in the Fort Hood massacre and the Boston Marathon bombing, but that’s nothing compared to basing foreign policies on delusions that the Muslim Brotherhood is “a very heterogeneous group, largely secular, which has eschewed violence,” as DNI James Clapper testified to Congress. You may remember Clapper as the guy who testified that the NSA does not collect any type of data at all on millions of Americans.
Well, thanks to the one year the secular, non-violent Muslim Brotherhood was in power in Egypt, the tunnels to Gaza were wide open to resupply Hamas’ rocket arsenal that Israel is dealing with now, and the MB’s Islamist policies in Egypt resulted in a public backlash.
Thank consultations with “subject matter experts” from Muslim Brotherhood front groups.
How dare those Gazans even think about replenishing their food, water, and gas supplies, and even worse, defending themselves against bloodthirsty american fuckwits like you. The chutzpah!
I say bloodthirsty americans fuckwits in place of ‘israeli’ because americans underwrote the previous demolition of Gaza, and they are underwriting this one too.
They get food, water, and power from Israel and through border crossings. The tunnels are for smuggling contraband and rockets to murder Israelis.
@ Death to Traitors;
You are grossly misinformed. Try reviewing the history regarding the formation of the State of Israel….You will find that it did not exist prior to 1948. Palestine did and the people were able to exist with relative religious freedom. Since the creation of Israel, one group of religious affiliation, has set out to demonize and take land and property rights away from the rightful owners. The fact that those rightful owners profess belief in Islam is secondary to the fact that they are the rightful owners of that land and all assets such as water and food. If I was born in what was once the State of Palestine, into a family that chose to practice Islam as a religion, I would fight against the so-called Israeli’s to the death in order to protect my right to exist freely in my native land.
You review history. You’ll find that the Kingdom of Israel existed before Islam existed. Palestine was a British Mandate, territory occupied by Britain, which included what is now Jordan. In 1946, Jordan became an independent Arab state. But that wasn’t enough for Arabs.
The UN Partition Plan for Palestine would’ve partitioned what remained of the Mandate between an independent Jewish state and ANOTHER independent Arab state. Jews accepted it. But that wasn’t enough for Arabs. They rejected it.
One day after the creation of the State of Israel, Arab armies invaded from all sides, including from the newly-created Jordan, to “sweep the Jews into the sea,” but they failed. Egypt managed to occupy Gaza, and Jordan managed to occupy the “west bank” of the Jordan River, which was historically Judea and Samaria.
One group of religious affiliation does demonize the other groups. The Koran demonizes Jews and to a lesser extent Christians, and commands Muslims to fight the unbelievers until they pay the jizya (tribute) and feel themselves subdued. The Torah doesn’t demonize Muslims because it was written before Muslims existed.
Which totally justifies the insane recent kill ratio of 200 to 0, the normal 20-1 or so is just too low for right wing bigots and Israel-firsters. The ones doing most of the killing by far are the Israelis. Of course that does not matter. They are the good guys! Why… because… democracy! What a total abandonment of rational thought it must take to side with these murdering terrorists who steal land, flout international law, bulldoze houses, pinch off medical supplies, illegally block help, kill human rights observers, workers, and press members, kill babies by the hundreds, and shoot children for throwing rocks. Amazing moral contortions are required to justify such brutality, and the main stream press, and the democrats are complicit in this travesty. “Israel has a right to defend herself” is one of the sick phrases you hear from these worthless gutless people…. even so called leftists and liberals chime in with this crap. Like mass hypnosis has taken place. None of them will ever get a vote or a dollar from me. The bias is sickening.
So you’re saying that Israel, or any country for that matter, has no right to defend itself as long as the enemies hide behind civilians and fail to murder as many people as they’d like. Because any effective counterattack will inevitably kill some of their human shields. Therefore, terrorists should be free to launch rockets at the country’s citizens, and the citizens should just get used to air raid sirens and hiding in bomb shelters.
No John, the total abandonment of rational thought is to treat this as some kind of a sick game where the “kill ratio” or the weapon ratio tells you right from wrong. A country has a duty to protect its citizens first and foremost, and it has a right to strike legitimate military targets like rocket launchers, and if Hamas deliberately hides those rocket launchers behind civilians, then Hamas is responsible for the civilian casualties. When Israel dropped leaflets warning Gazans to evacuate northern Gaza ahead of strikes on terrorist targets, Gaza’s Interior Ministry told residents to ignore Israel’s “psychological warfare” and to stay in their homes.
Israel uses weapons to protect its civilians, while Hamas uses civilians to protect its weapons.
And Palestinians are second rate people who have no rights whatsoever except to die at the hands of the aggressors, the settlers, the oppressors, the murderers and the international criminals that make up the butchering government of Israel. There is a concept called proportionality in war…. this is not war, this is slaughter. How many children have to die before it makes you sick to your stomach, ten thousand, a hundred thousand…. would that do it for you? Or, are the Palestinians just vermin to you?
Where would you suggest the Palestinians flee when the great humanitarians of Israel tell them to leave their fucking houses? Palestine is an open air prison that is getting smaller all the time.
Your concept of self defense is amazing. I guess if the neighborhood kid throws a rock through your window, you would fire bomb his house with all his family in it, shoot his dog, blow up his school, kill everybody else who looked like him the neighborhood, put his distant cousins in prison without charges and call it self defense?
You are sick. If the aggression, the stealing of land, the illegal blockade, the systematic homicide, the economic warfare, the humiliating control of every aspect of life, the degradation, the murder of children, and their parents (for fuck’s sake) were going the other way, I would be defending Israel.
Your argument lacks any moral component and demonstrates the hollow sickness of a meat puppet without a soul.
More of teh crazy from John Guandolo (via Wired – http://www.wired.com/2012/05/total-war-islam/all/#slideid-192379)
28 Action Items for Military Officers, titled: “What Can You Do” (http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/2012/05/guandolo_what_you_can_do.pdf)
#8) Identify key Muslim Brothers and MB organizations in your community.
# 14) Those in the community who are assisting the enemy (wittingly or unwittingly) should be exposed. This can be done in a number of ways. Consider spending time recruiting/educating a member of the local media – especially a young, aggressive reporter from the local paper.
#15) Put the heat on those elected official [sic] helping the enemy. Be aggressive. Take a crowd to a city council meeting and demand action. This is one tactic that works.
#26) Engage your local FBI Field Office and ask them about the amount of training they receive on the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamic Doctrine, and the Islamic Movement in the U.S. and across the globe.
#27) Know that if you are effective, there will be push back from the other side – the MB. Have a TEAM assembled. Don’t go it alone. Remember to target the good guys who are helping the bad guys first. If you go after a Muslim Brother to create a public issue, get help from someone with a deep level of
knowledge on this and plan well. The MB has an entire machine ready to pounce on you. Don’t give them the opportunity.
That’s the key to what’s going on here – “target the good guys who are helping the bad guys first.”
that is completely insane, hitler would be proud. those are military ideas this is American soil, these people are American citzens and the people talking in this manor like Hitler did Jews should all be removed. I didnt go to his school but i have looked into all of this myself and from what I have found and what i found could be wrong the Muslim Brotherhood is a group of people that want to keep old world ways, they do not want weastern ideas rammed down there throats, pretty much the history I have found showed that these people are the ones who have been attacked for years and they have been on the defence, like I said the info could be wrong and I would be interested in seeing another view. based on what i have seen about them the odds that any would be coming to live in this country are quit small, I think the info i saw showed that had one small place that most of them stayed, I will also point out we had no issues with anything happening bad in the US, until we started fiidling around in the Middle East for 200 years none of these people bothered us. There is one thing for sure this creates almost a never ending war that could go on decades. I do recall the Government be called out on this claiming there was no war on them only the people responcible for 911 now we see again the US Government has lied,
All things are spiritual. The Pakistanis believe in the “holy trinity”: this is comprised of Canada,California, and Connecticut. If placed on a map, the three areas form a triangle. I have been told by a Pakistani man, “there is NO SUCH THING as a peaceful Muslim!” Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No.84 was EXACTLY right. The Bill of Rights by James Madison, a deist, led us to where we are at now. We need to repent and turn from our wicked ways so that God can heal our land.
quote”The Pakistanis believe in the “holy trinity”: this is comprised of Canada,California, and Connecticut. If placed on a map, the three areas form a triangle…”
Really? whudda thunk. Shades of synthetic lobotomy serum addiction.
quote”We need to repent and turn from our wicked ways so that God can heal our land.”unquote
ummmm, exactly which god are you referring too? The god of…
Christianity?
Islam?
Hinduism?
Chinese traditional religion?
Buddhism?
African Traditional & Diasporic?
Sikhism?
Juche?
Spiritism?
Judaism?
Baha’i?
Jainism?
Shinto?
Cao Dai?
Zoroastrianism?
Tenrikyo?
Neo-Paganism?
Unitarian-Universalism?
Rastafarianism?
Scientology?
Other?
note to self…file this under
Great Moments in Gut Splitting Laughter.
The different religions are like so many languages speaking of that unique Truth as it manifests itself in different worlds according to its inner archetypal possibilities, but the syntax of these languages is not the same.
—— “Knowledge and the Sacred” by Seyyed Hossein Nasr
Anecdotal evidence is not very persuasive, balancing comments about 5 people against a list of thousands. These individuals probably appeared on the list because they had communications with others already there. That is just the reality of those means of information mining, it leads inevitably to inclusions that might be false. There might be some on that list that we would all agree ought be watched very closely. In world where ISIS militants have already seized nuclear materials, we confront the possibilities of terrorist attacks that would be too horrendous to contemplate and which might invoke, well, let’s call it a “nuclear option,” one where we except the proposition that it must be prevented AT ALL COSTS.
As for the use of the term “Islamic terrorists,” that term is exactly on point. Regardless of what other Muslims might believe, those terrorists themselves believe that are carrying out a religious directive and their actions are therefore defined by their interpretation of Islamic precepts.
Rather! Tally Ho Chaps!
“As for the use of the term “Islamic terrorists,” that term is exactly on point. Regardless of what other Muslims might believe, those terrorists themselves believe that are carrying out a religious directive and their actions are therefore defined by their interpretation of Islamic precepts.”
———-
So, in other words, the fact that an overwhelming majority of Muslims have rejected that terrorism is part of the Islamic teachings, and that terrorism kills more Muslims than non-Muslims, has no effect on you.
Are you even familiar with how the Muslim scholars have rejected terrorism over the past 1400 years, using the primary and secondary sources of Islam?
Here’s just one fatwa (edict) against terrorism. Would you care to read and digest it?
http://www.minhajbooks.com/images-books/Edict-Terrorism-Fitna-Khawarij/Edict-Terrorism-Fitna-Khawarij_1.pdf
Do you even know that, in classic Islamic law, one can’t even harm an off duty soldier, let alone a civilian?
I can easily challenge you to try to prove it from Islam’s primary source, the Quran, but I’ve experienced that most people, when challenged, simply run away. And those who don’t run away, don’t bother to read anything and just repeat their baseless arguments like a parrot.
So, I’ll just settle for the above edict, which, I’m sure, you will not read.
Sufi I have been having these talks for over a decade telling people, they have no idea what the religion is all about, and there only source is the US News Media that presents everything with the Government agenda attached. I understand what you said totally, down below I pointed out that on 911 we were told we were attacked by a religion but the facts are the actions of the people involved in the US, before the attacks clearly show they were not practicing the muslim religion at all. They were out drinking and partying and A host of things that clearly show they were not practicing the religion at any level. It is also my understanding that the radicals are very strict about many parts of the religion.
and your all knowing knowlege of this subjetc came from where exactly? I will guess the US News Media
So then if you were in charge you’d command that nuclear bombs be dropped on Iraq, killing the entire population of Iraq and contaminating it possibly forever, because a bunch of rampaging malcontents took control of a garbage dump? But that, to you, is not “too horrendous to contemplate?”
A US state department spokeswoman, Jen Psaki, expressed concern on 20 June about Isis seizing the complex, but played down the importance of the two bunkers with “degraded chemical remnants”, saying the material dates back to the 1980s and was stored after being dismantled by UN inspectors in the 1990s.
She said the remnants “don’t include intact chemical weapons … and would be very difficult, if not impossible, to safely use this for military purposes or, frankly, to move it”.
The truly terrifying concept here is that people like you just believe what the USG and their MSM puppets dish out regarding the so-called perpetrators of terror in a bogus “War on Terror,” that was literally created by the real terrorists occupying all branches of the USG.
Try reading the other side of the story for a change.
Directed to: Dave Satterfield 4
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/11/the-ultimate-goal-of-the-nsa-is-total-population-control
William Binney has stated that the new storage space they have created can store 100 years of the entire worlds data
Disregarding the generally ugly nature of the news source of this, I am wondering if Glenn has responded to this article that has appeared at Breitbart alleging that all of these men have past ties to terrorism. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/10/Glenn-Greenwald-s-Innocent-Muslims-List-Reveals-Individuals-With-Alleged-Ties-To-Islamic-Extremism
I am not promoting this article, I would just be interested in a response and if appropriate, a takedown. I am sure that Glenn et al. have anticipated this sort of response.
The Who’s a Muslim Game has out performed the Who’s a Jew in gaming contests across the nation, but there are some old diehards who still love to hate on both.
I have to mention the hilarity of Harry Golden who made the call correctly. If a Jew ever runs for president, he’ll be Episcopal. Enter Barry Goldwater to cement Trippen’s endure claim one cannot invent bizarre and get it to press before it comes true in America. Nothing wrong with being Episcopal, but JP Morgan had a big problem with those who weren’t until the 1960s.
These clods have even drawn Grover Norquist and his wife into this snake pit, too. Boo Hoo.
All that hype over email/phone snooping? This is a limited hangout operation after all.
Granted, the targets are Muslims; they have borne the very worst of the abuses, but NOT these guys. Not even close. They did not even know they were being surveilled until someone told them!
Americans: the most twisted, devious persecution of innocent people, of lesser means and no lawyers, is happening right under your noses. And some of you participate without even knowing who you work for.
America, if you think your reputation is shit now, just wait. E.S. & G.G. will be of no help, but the activities of the American Stasi and its collaborators (you) will be exposed some day, some how — rot eventually collapses these structures from within. When it is, the world will compare this society with the GDR’s, and the GDR will smell like the most fragrant roses.
Mr. Greenwald and Mr. Hussain
This is a well written and reasonable article which accuses the NSA of investigating (spying on) the five Americans primarily because they are Muslims. They were obviously investigated for possible links to Islamic terrorism. None of the five did anything wrong – and were never charged with a crime. These are all very well educated people who are civic-minded and work within the Muslim American community. Indeed, they are leaders in the Muslim-American community. In addition, people understandably have an interest in their heritage. Because a person is of Palestinian origin and may passionately support the Palestinian cause is hardly surprising (or even noteworthy). Defending Ahmadinejad (while stupid) doesn’t mean you are a terrorist. All five were clearly investigated because they are Muslims. That’s undeniable. Although some might consider it a “badge of honor” to make the NSA short list, for a Muslim American, it is humiliating especially because the 911 hijackers were Islamic extremists.
However, this is article is not necessarily an indictment of the NSA or their methodology – especially in lieu of 911. Nor is it surprising considering that the perpetrators of the September 11th attacks were all Muslim extremists. Obviously Bush gave the NSA wide latitude to do their job in the US after the attacks. Innocent people were clearly caught up in the wake of 911 (as well as a multitude of other spectacular attacks committed by Islamic extremist world-wide in the first decade of the twenty-first century). I am certain that this is the tip of the iceberg for investigations involving Muslim Americans, Islamic charities and organizations (like CAIR). It certainly does not help that 500 “radicalized” British Muslims are currently fighting in Syria and Iraq, or that as many as 800 French Muslims have traveled to Syria and Iraq for the same reason. It doesn’t help either that Sunni Muslims commit more acts of terrorism in the world than anyone else.
Is it fair that Muslim Americans are singled out? Obviously not. I don’t have to condemn or distance myself from every attack committed by Islamic extremists (like the Chechen community after the Boston bombing). It puts extreme pressure on Muslim Americans to “prove” they are “Americans”. It assumes guilt where there is none. In general, American Muslims have integrated well into the US population, support democracy and take advantage of the educational and job opportunities in the US.
Is it justified? I believe to a certain extent, it is based on the world-wide growth of Islamic extremism (including to a limited extent in the west). But I also believe that the net result is unfortunate for all innocent and law abiding Muslims living in the west who are caught up in hysteria since 911 (which is almost all of them).
Good article on a very controversial topic.
Let it be noted that CraigsSummers has clarified that he has no use for, nor does he believe in, the Constitution of the United States or the Bill of Rights. Let it be noted that CraigSummers doesn’t believe that any president of the United States should be held to the presidential oath of office, which reads: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
Hi Carson
This is your last correspondence to me:
“…….I’ll conclude this conversation to you with a well deserved, Fuck You CraigSummers.
I’ll resume my former non-addressing rule now……..”
Ha! Suddenly you are corresponding again. Whatever.
“…….Let it be noted that CraigSummers doesn’t believe that any president of the United States should be held to the presidential oath of office…..”
I’ve said it before numerous times at the Guardian and I’ll say it again: The first obligation of a President is to ensure that Americans are safe. That’s a huge responsibility. Both Bush and Obama have done exactly that (to their credit).
Thanks.
“The first obligation of a President is to ensure that Americans are safe. ”
The POTUS has no obligation to “ensure that Americans are safe.” The job is to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. Neither Bush nor Obama have done that (to their detriment).
“Sunni Muslims commit more acts of terrorism in the world than anyone else.” Only if we take your assumption that when our side does it, it’s not terrorism.
That’s my assumption (although that certainly has not always been the case).
“Islamic terrorism”
—————————
In Christianity, the word ‘Christian’ is used to refer to ‘According to the teachings of Christianity’ and ‘A person who adheres to Christianity’
In Islam, the word ‘Islamic’ means ‘According to the teachings of Islam’, but the word ‘Muslim’ is used to refer to ‘A person who adheres to Islam’.
An overwhelming majority of Muslims do not believe that terrorism is Islamic, that is, according to the teachings of Islam. As a matter of fact, it’s against Islam to harm even an off-duty soldier, let alone a civilian.
Therefore, we consider the term ‘Islamic Terrorism’ to be invalid and oxymoron.
Excellent points, SM. Jews are committing acts of terrorism in Gaza even as I type this, yet I probably wouldn’t react well to someone referring to “Jewish terrorism” as if it were a thing.
You may win the hyperboly contest, but I saw an Israeli Jew crying for the horror Palestine is enduring at the hands of both their criminal governments, so don’t hold people accountable for their stupid leaders’ suicidal tendencies, for good’s sake.
Have you lost your Atlantic Charter, Gumby? Pokey through the short thing.
The government of Israel, the Party of Hamas… Is that too heavy to lift?
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1937-1945/atlantic-conf
I disagree that “Jews” are the cause of the situation in “Israel”. It is so obvious premeditated genocide when you see that r1b has been committing genocide non-stop for hundreds of years stealing 5 continents. The entire situation in “Israel” right now has nothing to do with anything except r1b genocide. They were the ones to make the jews leave in the first place and now they stick them back right on top of another population and fan the flames intentionally. They’re backing a tiny population against their target which is the whole region.
At the same time in the west the jews and all other non-r1b’s are primarily responsible for about all of the technology being produced, everyone simply has a much higher genetic potential to produce technology. r1b’s are just sitting there spying on everyone and stealing every single thing made and using it for themselves, designing it to benefit themselves and hurt everyone else.
The west hand picks all of the jewish leaders at least definitely in America and most likely in Israel;, Israeli intel was guided from the beginning by britian with a history of simply spying on and charging everyone they didn’t like with ridiculous fake crimes and erasing the history of it.
The jews are zero to blame the Palestinians are zero to blame. other than maybe the r1b’s within their populations that ive seen openly fanning the flames and causing the problems intentionally.
It wont change until there’s protection from the assassination campaign against jewish leaders; in the u.s. they find them instantly by spying on everyone and eliminate the smartest, healthiest potential leaders. We’re left with a pile of shit who usually aren’t even genetically jewish or with some types of precision inflicted brain damage.
You certailly have a right to disagree but you would be wrong, The United Nation establish a border there decades ago. Israel is the one not honoring that border and as a result the conflict rages on.
You ignore systematic settles based on numerous accepted treaties. You ignore the sheer number of Palestinians killed over the decades compared to Israelis, including two teens killed prior to the 3 Israeli teens disappearance (not justification, but I see countless people mentioning the 3 boys as reason for Israels reaction yet the Palestinians apparently can’t react to their people being killed).
Simple steps could be taken by Israel to show it is serious, including accepting a Palestinian state. Ceasing settlements and removing contested ones over their mandated borders. Yet Israel has refused.
How long do the Palestinians have to put up with their land being taken, their rights of self determination infringed, systematic killing of their people, before Israel has any responsibility.
And no, I don’t the Palestinians blameless. Groups like Hamas and those firing the rockets are equally to blame for this mess. But you cannot ignore Israel’s part in the cause of it.
It’s orchestrated 100% by r1b’s stolen intelligence apparatus for the purpose of genocide and nothing else; it’s difficult to understand how apparently nobody but me can see something so obvious.
Also, I referred to the american jewish leadership as a “pile of shit”, Please pardon me, this is in reference to it collectively being hand picked by an entity that wishes to damage its people as much as possible, and that they’re in place of the individuals who would otherwise be there; as well as their jumping on the muslim hate bandwagon. I also have an issue with them not assisting jews who are in danger in the west and their policy of saying nothing when the u.s. government locates and assassinates jews (or otherwise eliminates them from contention in various fields).
-a side note , meir kahana wanted to cut all ties with the west (not that I agreed with anything else), his political party was then officially classified as a “terrorist” organization and he was assassinated in america by his arab brother (two birds with one stone), while being surveilled daily by fbi as shown in documents released 2007.
It’s true Sufi – terrorism is terrorism regardless of the reasons which I define as the targeting of civilians for political gain. On the other hand, there are different reasons terrorist target and kill innocent people. For example Assad is clearly a terrorist. Over the last three years he has out terrorized what we traditionally call terrorists like al-Qaeda, Boko Haram and the ISIS. However, their motivations are different. The ISIS are motivated by creating the caliphate and imposing Islamic law on people in Syria and Iraq (and certainly elsewhere). Assad is interested in retaining power over a “secular” society. Christian terrorists bomb abortion clinics and are motivated by their Christian beliefs – and should be referred to as Christian terrorists. (IMO). There are Christian terrorists, Hindu terrorists, Jewish terrorists and Islamic terrorists.
Thanks.
Should the US government pretend it doesn’t target people based on their religion, political views, group memberships and client-attorney relationships? Given that the targets now know they are under surveillance, why couldn’t the government explain why they were put under surveillance? I don’t buy that there’s some secret reason why that can’t be revealed, any more than I buy any “secret evidence” theory. Also, if they had a good reason, it would quickly be leaked to the MSM.
” Muslim extremists” Really were they? Thats what the media has told us for over a decade (we pretty much know they lie daily now) they infact were all Saudi’s everyone of them came from a single country. The main actor was said to be out drinking and hang out with hookers. Muslims ,real ones dont do that kind of thing. Infact the ones that are extremists are more strick to the religion than most (it doesnt say go out and kill americans BTW). This has kinda been left in the dust for a decade. Ignored because it doesnt fit the story we have been told. Im quite aware pointing out this simple fact and not believing the government mouth pieces makes me crazy, but its pretty dumb to claim you were attacked by a religion, and then reality is the attackers really didnt practice it.
My above statement doesnt matter at this point, but this next statement does, it is a fact that the Spying has not stopped a single attack, not a single attack has been stopped by the spying, I repeat not a single attack has been stopped by the spying, which can only mean a few things, there are no plans for an attack at all , and this is all a hyped up mess to be used for something else. I guess it could mean they are watching the wrong people, but if that is the case where are the attacks.
I always love the use of governments fail attempts as an excuse for what they are doing , we use their failures to support what they are doing. This is quit odd I dont think it works for a single other thing I can think of, we failed to stop 911 ,we need the spying that failed to stop 911. How is it that you can use fail attempts to support what they are doing and have that make sense to you. I would think that we would need examples of it actually stopping something to claim its usefull , but there are zero .
I just dont understand the logic, but maybe its because I dont spend enough time sitting in from of the TV set, being convince this insanity actually make some kind of sense
Without citation, the claim on sunnis is in extreme doubt, and still doesn’t represent the majority of Sunnis. But if you look at the last 10 years of attacks on in the U.S. specifically, right wing Christians make up the largest portion.
Most of the ‘orld’s biggest ‘ass ‘urderers were ‘hristians.
‘itler, ‘ussolini, ‘apolean, ‘ruman, ‘ush, ‘heny, ‘liar – none of them a ‘uslim – except ‘henghiz ‘han.
@CraigSummers (aka – ‘Idahoan Flash’)
re:
Your unsubstantiated bloviation has no basis in reality, and this ‘insensitivity’ for which you refer has fuk’all to do w/ ‘Jews’ as a generalization.
Mona’s due diligence comes in the form of her efforts to expose (.. via documented references) the numerous transgressions that the Israeli Gov (IDF) have and are currently perpetrating.
Take Care..
What happened to Mona? Anyone know? She used to be a frequent commenter here and at GG’s other venues in the past.
I think she is on a sabbatical.
The white house borrowed her. They wanted somebody to respond to their critics.
Mona’s ISP has, apparently and for no known reason, been excluded from commenting. It’s not a “ban”, as persons at TI are aware of it and have tried to rectify it. No one really knows what or why it’s happening.
She has been informed that new commenting software is “coming soon”, but no one knows if the “soon” referenced is from what might be described as a “normal” timeline or more along the lines of something that might more accurately be described as “geological” in nature. :-s
Because she sees no problem with a Nazi funding this site is enough to support my contention, but she has made a lot of statements that show various degrees of insensitivity toward Jews (in general).
Thanks.
CraigSummers
04 Jul 2014 at 12:20 pm
““…….Did those first American oligarchs possibly write eloquent words of a man’s inalienable rights just to appear on a higher road, while really starting a revolution because England was already criminalizing slavery – and fortunes had to be protected?….”
Yep. That’s what the 56 people who signed the Declaration of Independence were all thinking. I would call your insight very similar to Michel Chossudovsky’s at GlobalResearch.EA
“…..What the NIC report fails to mention______….”
and you fill in the blank. So you filled in the blank with: the Boston Tea Party was a sham. It was really the Boston nigger party.
Thanks for the insight.”
Just a reminder so everyone understands your “insenitivity” expertise, Craig…
“……Just a reminder so everyone understands your “insenitivity” expertise, Craig…….”
Yes, I could be the Grand Wizard of the Idaho chapter of the KKK and that still wouldn’t change that Mona is insensitive to Jews, OK? (Baldie McEagle?)
Thanks.
FWIW, this Jew, who has had some spirited disagreements with Mona, doesn’t think Mona is insensitive to Jews. I think she has great respect for traditional Judaism, which she believes has been corrupted by nationalism.
“……..FWIW, this Jew, who has had some spirited disagreements with Mona, doesn’t think Mona is insensitive to Jews……”
We just have a fundamental disagreement. Sometimes, where you politically agree with someone, you are willing to overlook some issues. For example, the views of CharlieSeattle were rightly challenged by quite a few (regular) posters on this site. Dahoit – an anti Jewish bigot if there ever was one – always gets a free pass. I understand Mona has passionate views of the IP conflict, but her comments – at times – have been indistinguishable from typical far right rhetoric – and the Nazi comment just adds fuel to that fire. I have always enjoyed reading Mona’s comments, but its difficult not to put two and two together.
Thanks.
Funny you should mention Nazis. You DO know that George W. Bush’s grandpappy, Prescott, got caught canoodling with the Nazis directly, don’t you?
Its my understanding he actually funded their effort. Would that be what you are talking about or something else?
Threads like this amuse me. It simpley baffels me that people will argue points simplely based on thnigs , they have been hand by the establishment. These muslims are this way and those are like that. How do you really know any of that shit you argue about is true. The sources are government puppets.
Over a decade ago Fox News Played a video they claimed was Bin Laden taking Credit for the 911 attacks, in the video he was at least 100 pounds bigger than in any other video we ever saw of him. Since none of us could actually understand what he said it was translated by them to us. This was the huge proof that he did it. Other people that looked at this video said they were infact were talking about 911 but that know one in that video actually took credit for the event, most people never saw this on their TV set. I happened to be living in a college town that actually had students that could understand what the video actually said so I asked one to tell me what they said actually I asked more than one. What FoX presented was a complete lie, there translation of the video wasnt even close to what they actually said. They half dozen or so people I asked said exactly the same thing, all translations matched.
Point being you have no idea what these people think about anything because all your info about them comes from people with an agenda, just like the video on Fox. These days I assume every single story I read to be complete bullshit, when I dont see a single fact to back up what is claimed in the story, and there are alot of stories that fit into this, it is as if the media no longer needs to show any proof of what they say, just sayng it, is some how supposed to make it true and anyone not believing this shit is a crazy person. People these days get all excited about stories that get there emotions going, they totally miss that there is not a single fact or piece of proof that the story actually happened, but it sure did get them excited. It would seem that the media has figure out if they can tell a story that gets your emotions going people dont notice, there are zero facts, zero evidence it even happened. Getting your emotions going first means they can tell you anything and you will believe it with out question and all out attack anyone that points out there are no fact or proof that it is real.
Obama’s approval rating with American Muslims is 72%. Some kind of weird disconnect going on there.
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/poll-obama-approval-muslims-highest-108797.html#disqus_thread
“In 1994, Awad voiced public support for Hamas—before the group’s campaign of suicide attacks against civilians and subsequent placement on the State Department’s terrorist list in 1997.”
Oh, it was BEFORE the suicide attacks that he voiced support for the group whose 1988 charter calls for the obliteration of Israel, so he’s A-OK!
“Full disclosure: Glenn Greenwald, a co-author of this story, has given paid speeches before CAIR’s regional affiliates.”
Oh good, less money for Hamas.
But seriously, next time ask them what Shariah has in store for gay atheist Jews.
Many Muslims living in the West now favor equal and fair treatment, and respect for, the LGBT community.
This reformation of the Shariah is only possible in the West, which provides lot more freedoms (e.g. of thought) and interactions with the LGBT than the Muslim majority countries.
You’re such a master of subtlety. What I object to is being forced to pay for the ammunition used to kill children in Gaza.
And I object to being forced to pay for the Palestinian Unity Government with Hamas. I’d pay for a one-way ticket to Gaza for you and Greenwald.
Gaza doesn’t get much financial backing from the US compared to Israel which is totally dependent on the US to survive. Gaza isn’t much more than a refugee camp. I think much of its financial backing comes from the EU. A lot of what comes from Hamas regarding Israel’s existence is just political rhetoric. It’s like members of the Knesset calling for Palestinian genocide. It shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Jews, for some reason, tend to take eliminationist rhetoric seriously.
And there is a lot more stricter restriction on what Gaza funding can go to, which is controlled by a U.S. representative overseeing the expenditures, as opposed to the blank check to Israeli and what it gets to spend it on.
Given how many times Israel has done things like: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/13/false_flag it is ironic we restrict the Palestinian spending more.
What blank check? Israel gets funding for systems like Iron Dome, and it gets American weapons like fighter jets with strings attached.
On the other hand, material support for terrorist groups like Hamas is a FELONY. The founders of the Holy Land Foundation were sentenced to 65 years for funneling $12 million to Hamas.
The Obama administration is currently seeking more than $440 million in direct aid to the Palestinian Authority for the 2015 budget year. The U.S. additionally gives some $600 million to the UN agency UNRWA which goes to Palestinians classified by the UN as “refugees” in the West Bank and Gaza, even if they’re grandchildren of refugees.
What blank check? Israels got $2.775 billion in 2010, $3 billion in 2011, $3.07 billion in 2012 (and additional $3.15 billion per year 2013-2018) at least to publicly admitting figures. That is separate from what goes to Iron Dome and other missile defense systems which is $176 million budget on top of the above.
There is no U.S. review or control over what Israel spends the money although it inevitably ends up on the military , while there is absolutely tight control on what the Palestinians spend it on. And that money also only goes to the Abbas government for their disbursement not the Hamas elected government in Gaza. They are limited to spending on policing and infrastructure.
To date,
the United States has provided Israel $121 billion (current, or non-inflation-adjusted, dollars, adjusted it would be far higher).
Whenever spending is asked for Israel is approved, so essentially a blank check.
NSA whistleblower Russ Tice said the NSA went after McCain and Feinstein and Alito and Petraeus and wannabe-senator Obama. Where are those names, huh? All you can come up with are the likes of Hamas agent Nihad Awad?
“Awad’s surveillance appears to have coincided with the timing of the Holy Land Foundation case”
Great, if the FBI can wiretap a mafia boss, they can wiretap a Hamas front group.
I hope they added Iranian agent Trita Parsi to the list, and they better be following all the American Jihadists who went on Jihad to Syria.
Tice also said that Snowden did not have access to any of that evidence. Or the REALLY creepy and illegal stuff. I can’t remember the intelligence language he used. But he basically said the Snowden stuff is the tip of the iceberg, and the NSA does not put the really interesting stuff on PowerPoint slides ….
He developed a system in which only terror
related calls and emails were captured. All
other calls were filtered out making it easier to surveil the right people — people
who actually are a threat. But they are not
using that system. Instead they are capturing everything making it useless
for monitoring people who might actually
be dangerous. This proves that it has nothing to do with fighting terrorism
or keeping people safe.
This was supposed to be a reply to debian @ 12:47am
If I am a citizen with nothing to hide, why would i be outraged that the government is spying on me? My concern will only be that they are wasting time and energy on me while the real terrorists are out there planning something drastic. There are all kinds of people in the US. The US also faces threats from a diverse group of people. A blanket surveillance is thus justified to identify and neutralize threats before they become mature. Being a celebrity, an activist, a professor, a scientist, an armed forces officer – is not an excuse to protest why are they under surveillance. They have not been arrested and put in jails, so protesting surveillance is nothing. Who knows where the next terror attack is going to come from – look at the Boston Bombings or the attempted Time Square bombing – the main accused where as normal as French Fries or a Macaroni.
@Charan- “If I am a citizen with nothing to hide, why would i be outraged that the government is spying on me? snip-
Um, because of the US constitution?
quote”Who knows where the next terror attack is going to come from –”unquote
Says Charan as he shakes uncontrollably under his bed in stark terror of the French Fries on the dinner table.
NYC Mayor Bloomberg set his police on the Occupy Wall Street protestors who did nothing more than sit in the park. Now every one of those thousands has an FBI file. I want the FBI and the NSA and the CIA and the HSA to surveill dangerous people, not park sitters.
I bet no political dissident has ever said they don’t care about mass surveillance because they have “nothing to hide.” That’s something only compliant, conformist people say. And you’re right, if you’re not a problem to the US government in any way, why would it matter if they spy on you?
If you embrace the whole police state thing, then why are you even bothering to read this article? I really can’t imagine a less lettered take-away from this article, so thanks for that.
If a future US government was to use the present-day NSA to investigate the abuses of the NSA/torture/lying about WMDs AND THEIR SUPPORTERS, I’m quite sure that you will suddenly become aware of what’s going on.
Let’s try this again:
If anyone missed this, it may be of interest:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/10/civil-liberties-groups-lawsuit-suspicious-activity-database
Wow this is crazy stuff I had not seen this before. I thought I had seen it all
If anyone missed this, it may be of interest:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/10/civil-liberties-groups-lawsuit-suspicious-activity-database
Testing
What about American citizens? We’re being targeted as well.
Sorry for the test post and the repeats. I wasn’t seeing my comments posted (until now), so I assumed they weren’t making it to the site either because of a technical glitch or because of government interception by the NSA or some other agency.
Why is this website only covering foreign nationals? American citizens are also being targeted.
Uh, these folks ARE American citizens! That’s what the whole column is about.
All five of these men ARE American citizens, upstanding American citizens! Try reading the article.
I’ll try reading the article, but I was talking about native born American citizens not American citizens of foreign origin. Native born American citizens are also being surveyed and tortured by the government. This is being done in ways that the average person cannot imagine (unless he/she is being targeted) and that the mainstream media will never cover. Glenn Greenwald had stated he would release the names of targeted individuals, and he has far only released a handful of names. I can tell you first hand that there are more than just five people being targeted, a lot more; most who do not fit within the upperclass like those five men who are covered in the article.
GG and company are doing one article at a time. This time the story is about five Arab or Muslim Americans whom you apparently resent being referred to as American citizens, a label you seem to think is reserved for white born-here Americans.
Violence, potty mouth, and lack of gestational education on the progressive side of reproductive debate:
Columbus, OH, June 9:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g67z_xBe07Q
Wow. Good to see that women have some “foot” soldiers out there in the ongoing war against them.
fucked
*The ultimate goal of the NSA is total population control*
From The Guardian:
“At least 80% of all audio calls, not just metadata, are recorded and stored in the US, says whistleblower William Binney – that’s a ‘totalitarian mentality'”
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/11/the-ultimate-goal-of-the-nsa-is-total-population-control
he would know since he made the system
Did any of Snowden’s documents corroborate this? You’d think that Greenwald and company would start by publishing that one instead of the legal Section 215 metadata stuff.
“NSA is collecting less than 30 percent of U.S. call data, officials say”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-is-collecting-less-than-30-percent-of-us-call-data-officials-say/2014/02/07/234a0e9e-8fad-11e3-b46a-5a3d0d2130da_story.html
“The National Security Agency is collecting less than 30 percent of all Americans’ call records because of an inability to keep pace with the explosion in cellphone use, according to current and former U.S. officials.
The disclosure contradicts popular perceptions that the government is sweeping up virtually all domestic phone data.
In 2006, a senior U.S. official said, the NSA was collecting “closer to 100” percent of Americans’ phone records from a number of U.S. companies under a then-classified program, but as of last summer that share had plummeted to less than 30 percent.”
So the NSA can’t even keep up with Americans’ phone RECORDS, but it can record 80% of all audio calls?
“NSA is collecting less than 30 percent of U.S. call data, officials say”
Death,,
You’ve been outed as a gov.com stooge. Politely, fuk’off..
quote:”You’ve been outed as a gov.com stooge. “unquote
Milpropaganda agent 5 , Unit 13…to put it precisely
http://www.storyleak.com/us-military-caught-social-media-running-mass-propaganda-accounts/
Full quote: “The NSA is preparing to seek court orders to compel wireless companies that currently do not hand over records to the government to do so, said the current and former officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.”
How is that different from Snowden’s leak that a court order compels phone companies like Verizon to hand over records? Sounds like the same kind of “whistleblowing.” Before Snowden revealed his identity, he was an anonymous source for the Washington Post too. Does that make the Washington Post a government stooge for citing him?
The targets who didn’t agree to be profiled in the article were absolutely right to fear being stigmatized. That is indeed becoming the narrative, i.e. that the US government always has good reasons for doing what it does, and it would never — never — exaggerate or lie about its actions. Therefore, these people must be guilty of something that has to remain secret and unexamined. I look forward to lawsuits that seek to uncover the rationale in each case, all of which will have an unsurprising outcome.
They will claim state secrets and that will be the end, wnna bet?
You might want to read this before throwing your money away….
https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/71._district_court_order_denying_govts_letter_motion_for_extension_of_time_to_file.pdf
Looks like there are still a few Judges who don’t buy the goverment’s bullshit…
You might want to read this before throwing your money away….
https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/71._district_court_order_denying_govts_letter_motion_for_extension_of_time_to_file.pdf
Looks like there are still a few Judges who don’t buy the government’s bullshit…
What about U.S. Citizens? We’re being targeted too.
Sigh. The column is totally about…AMERICAN CITIZENS!
What about U.S. Citizens? We’re being targeted too?
Not a lurker. High volume investigative interviews of targets may find common causes of surveillance. Perhaps it is something like police brutality of innocent people — targets selected by gut reactions. Or is it something else, something like non-state actors influencing public thinking? The targets might have something that would answer the question — Why?
I see this all from a wide open view since I been up on current events in this country long before Snowden. This is just a guess but I have seen evidence of these things happening other places. They probably dont like what some of these people are talking about but the First Amendment still causes them a bit of trouble so they lurk and look for any kind of reason they can to shut them up. They keep them all in this loop so they can then some how rope others into the mess, They have used some pretty under handed things to shut people up, false charges all out lies and a host of things. Its pretty easy to shut poorer people up you just lock them up for some made up bullshit, they are low profile dont have much support from a big time Lawyer and its over, for Instance Barrent Brown he had a web site showing all the illegal spying long before Snowden, it was all mapped out and showed how everything was connected. They didnt like him much so they messed with him anyway they could, the poking of the rattle snake Ill call it. He held up fine until they threatened his mother, this made him flip out and make a public statement that they then used to lock him up, even though he made it perfectly clear in the statement what he ment, they took it out of contexted and locked him up. He has a host of charges against him now. He got arrested for posting a link to some data in a chat room, data he had nothing to do with being on the net,data that had been passed around 1000’s of times, all over the web but they wanted to shut him up so he got charged, somewhere in the data he posted the link to there was a credit card number, so even though this info had been passed all around the internet Brown was charged with trafficing stolen credit cards. remmeber that next time you post a link to something
Personally I think the answer to ‘why’ is very simple: “Because we can.” That these individuals might conceivably pose a problem or provide a lead – according to preposterous imaginative conjecture and simple-minded profiling – is perhaps all that is necessary. The monitoring of the Occupy movement was certainly similarly stupid, predicated with equal bizarreness on watching and bothering some of the most kindhearted, inclusive and gentle people in America.
Detective work could be made easy by means of having a policeman in every house, and if this could be explained and accepted as reasonable, the mentality of the current US establishment would do it! Orwell, in 1984 and Animal Farm, pointed out that human nature is, well, sort of dog-eat-dog, and the Big Dog (or Pig or Brother) will – unless disallowed – abuse power until (and certainly after) achieving total control. There have been documents created specifically to mitigate this kind of abuse – the Magna Carta, the Constitution (and Bill of Rights) of the United States, etc., but these are only as good as the principles behind them are understood generally as significant, only as good as they are accepted as absolute directives for the behavior of the powerful. Once the philosophy of decency and responsible self-inhibition on the part of political dominants is cast aside, “Because we can” wins over. This appears to happen individually in sociopathic deterioration and nationally if the establishment of the country can act badly with ceaseless functional and ‘legal’ impunity.
Amen because we can just about covers it as far as i can tell, but if you look at the other stories that have been posted here they are using the info they collect for under handed things, I having followed this stuff now for many years, it quite possible that they are now able to target everyone every where with these other thing. It could be so large they could attack the internet as a whole with this stuff, or any subject they choose
They ‘collect it all, exploit it all,’ etc… because they can. All generally means, well, all. Meaning everything anywhere is stored, if possible. They can look later, if necessary, sort of thing. Only some get the’ as it happens’ treatment, no doubt. The sheer monumental manpower and waste of watching ‘everyone in real time’ would of course dwarf the already impractical overkill of real-time monitoring that is evidently presently being executed. It seems they just vacuum it all up, directing their attention hopefully and haphazardly in as many directions as are feasibly workable, meanwhile collecting all they can.
…And exploiting all they can.
Here is one datapoint for your target selection criteria survey.
I had a religious fundamentalist sibling in Texas, who happened to be married to a religious fundamentalist F-15 pilot, and I offended their religious/military sensibilities. Here is how these wholesome american family values adherents responded.
Facts:
* They made various plans to murder me.
* They informed me of their plans.
* They sicced the Stasi on me.
Speculation:
* Several odd experiences lead me to infer they collaborated, in order to guide each other in how most effectively stalk and threaten the scary terrorist (me).
All you have to do to get inserted into a Stasi (NSA/CIA/FBI) stalking-db is piss off one or two evil, chicken-shit americans. That’s it. (I mention the CIA because I was stalked in BR and UK, which is outside FBI territory — a possibly naive assumption.)
@Nate: Before you respond with your BS swirling exercise — or quick analysis, as you call it — fuck off, and may I buy you a one way ticket to Fallujah?
So? Name them.
I have named them, here. The post was deleted, presumably by a moderator tasked with helping Stasi perps maintain their immunity.
Anyone of the opinion that Hamas and Hezbollah are not terrorist organisations should be on the watchlist. Or the they should be used as human shields against the “harmless” fireworks those two organisations subject other people to. Any right thinking human being does not want to harm other human beings, if they do they are a danger to others and should be monitored if not jailed. No religion has the right to subdue anyone not even its own followers. No religion has the right to bomb anyone… but Hamas repeatedly bomb Israel who in return is harsly critized and accused of genocide if they defend themselves efficiently. Hamas could easily be wiped out, the only reason it is not is because Israel show restraint… Essentially being too kind to a terrorist organisation because of the risk to innocent people forced to hang around Hamas terrorists. (I’m not jewish, not israeli, not christian but I am in Jerusalem right now and Hamas propaganda lies, murders and rockets on my doorstep made me wake up to reality.)
Peter,,
The only ‘rockets’ on your doorstep are the ones initiated via your PS-4..
Congratulations! You’ve just been nominated for the 2014 ‘Golden Turd Award’ (.. winner to be announced on Jan 2)
I never had a PS but I thank you for the nomination ;)
“but Hamas repeatedly bomb Israel who in return is harsly critized and accused of genocide if they defend themselves efficiently. ”
I see. Israel has the right to defend itself when some crude bombs land in its territory. What about Palestinians? Do they have a right of self-defense after Israel kills dozens of its citizens with missiles? I suppose not. They are brown, after all.
I agree that the palestinians are suffering too and they should work actively to kick Hamas out of Gaza, and stop being used as an excuse by religious fanatics to bomb Israel.
While a few of the rockets shot from Gaza are homemade, they are by no means harmless. However, the majority of the rockets are produced in Syria and Iran and the common denominator for all of the rockets are that they are created in malice and designed to kill and maim civilians, wreck homes and seriously desturb the minds of the next generations.
War is the trade of destruction… so don’t start them unless you can handle becoming a target. Hamas seems to have a tendency to be on the warpath all the time… hence they must suffer the consequences of having better equipped opponent.
So? Go over to where the Palestinian “terrorists” are being attacked and see if it feels better.
Well no need to. We all know that being bombed is not pleasant. Therefore don’t bomb people with more and larger bombs that you have… it will result in Darwinian selection with you as the one being removed from the genepool, in essence treat others the way you want to be treated…
I guess they just cancelled each other out…..
Justice declines to pursue allegations that CIA monitored Senate Intel staff
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/07/10/232923/justice-declines-to-pursue-allegations.html
This is seriously fucked up. I’m calling Ghostbusters.
The establishment always seems ultimately very keen to find out the establishment did nothing particularly wrong.
How come Snowden is called a crock for getting documents and her staff are only accused of slipping, not stealing. How does that work? If someone on her staff slipped or whatever documents from the CIA we are in are more trouble than people think, this shit is wide open for anyone, to see. China Russia whoever. I think Dianne Feinstein is an idiot personally, but she is probably being spied on by the CIA or NSA either way, but ofcource Holder doesnt want to look. I would guess with my tin foil hat that the Government has aka Congress has been being spied on for along time.
Once and Again
The FBI has used covert operations against domestic political groups since its inception; however, covert operations under the official COINTELPRO label took place between 1956 and 1971.
COINTELPRO (an acronym for COunter INTELligence PROgram) was a series of covert, and at times illegal projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at surveying, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting domestic political organizations.
Most Americans may believe that COINTELPRO is a thing of the past, but since 9/11,surveillance practices have spiked.
Muslim-American communities face intense surveillance by the FBI.
Surveillance based just on religion or ethnicity infringes on people’s constitutionally protected rights to freedom of religion and association.
Many of the protections that were put in place after the 1960s surveillance abuses have been eroded since 9/11, specifically since the 2001 Patriot Act. Among other things, the 2001 law allows for law enforcement to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial, and other records without probable cause.
The fact that government can monitor groups without evidence of wrong-doing, has had a chilling effect of the Muslim community.
The National Security Agency routinely shares raw intelligence data with Israel without first sifting it to remove information about US citizens, a top-secret document provided to the Guardian by whistleblower Edward Snowden reveals.
Details of the intelligence-sharing agreement are laid out in a memorandum of understanding between the NSA and its Israeli counterpart that shows the US government handed over intercepted communications likely to contain phone calls and emails of American citizens. The agreement places no legally binding limits on the use of the data by the Israelis.
The primary objective has been to “expose, disrupt, misdirect, or otherwise neutralize” groups and individuals that the US and Israeli officials believe to be subversive.
The fact that the NSA agrees to provide raw intelligence data to a foreign country contrasts with assurances from the Obama administration that there are rigorous safeguards to protect the privacy of US citizens caught in the dragnet and also endangers the lives of Muslims traveling abroad.
This type of unwarranted government surveillance should not only be troubling to American Muslim communities but all Americans who support civil rights and liberties. The tactics implored by the NSA clearly runs counter to the core principles of freedom of speech, religion and association which underpin the very fabric of our nation. In the end, these tactics worked to undermine legitimate aspirations of American Muslims who seek freedom, growth and participation in governance.
Khalilah Sabra
Executive Director
Muslim American Society Immigrant Justice Center
Thanks for valuable scoops Glenn. The haters here prove you must be onto something big. Keep going!
The big story is — Why?
I do not believe Greenwald/Snowden have that information. How is illegal surveillance being used by NSA clients?
I do believe that was posted on this web site months ago
good, if the muslim are our enemies, it’s only normal to spy on them, it’d be stupid for the nsa to be spying on JW, or mormons or pentecostals.
See Cliven Bundy. See Murietta, California.
This is a post to Glenn Greenwald, I have seen many claim they have issues posting comments here on other articles. I assumed they had something on there machines blocking it some how, but yesterday attempting to post on this article from the machine Im sitting on right now I was unable to post, from my real IP address. It is a US IP address. I have found no issues at all posting from another country, every single one posts without an issue. I could say alot of things about this that most posters here would not understand. I think you do as you can probably see , why it might be happening in documents you have, commentors on this page seem to not have any idea what is going on in the world around them. Many are screaming for proof of spying on white Americans this info has been posted all over the inernet by many sources,its everywhere go look. William Binney a former NSA has spoken of it many times, Jacob Applebaum was targeted for filling in at a speaking engagement, it was reported a few days ago that people doing searches for privacy software have been targeted in the source code of the NSA spying machine and that code has been posted, If you do a search and look on the TechDirt web site you can see people going after greenwald himself, there are stories there with documents of people wanting to shut greenwald up for his support of wikileaks. Thomas Drake a former NSA has spoke of this many times, after a seach of his home they found unclassified documents which they then classified top secret after the fact and charged him as a traitor. Only a freedom of information request saved Thomas Drake the Government truely intended to lie and set him up with fake evidence.but they were so stupid they actually released the documents he has on an FOI to someone else, when they were presented to the Judge he then threw the case out, but this clearly shows you that you are not living where you think, and they will go to any means to shut people up they dont want to talk. You White Americans are having your phone records copied and stored ,your emails are copied and stored, this has been shown from other Snowden documents, it is a fact that the government holds the position that anything you store with a 3rd party is not your data, for instance anything you post on facebook, and things stored on a google,yahoo or microsoft server, you have no rights to this data it is not yours ,they can do whever they want with it, finacial data can be obtained at will ,this data is also not your data, it is not protected by the 4th Amendment. This would also include voice mail since it is stored on a 3rd party server. It has been shown on this very site people have been targeted for visiting web sites the Government didnt like, What more is it you need to know, the info has all been shown, the problem is that TV set, telling you different the propaganda, every single one of you is being spied on, if you have interest in reading greenwald you have been to sites somewhere they didnt like and you are on some list, so many of you are into this labeling of people, its amazing that you are a part of the machine and have no clue. Nick the owner of Calyx internet company in NewYork was handed an NSL in 2005, 1000’s of them have been handed out. It has been shown they are targeting network Administrators these are the people that control your internet services and other things, if they get control of there accounts they get all the data on you. Every single terrorist law in ths country started off point only at people directly involved in 911 and today every single one of those laws can be used on you. This is the patern this is how it works they find a group of people americans think should be under different rules, the laws get passed and then they turn those laws on YOU. If you open your eyes and turn off the TVset they are paving the way to use drone strike on American soil ,the same way they are being used in the very first article on this web site. Every single article posted on this site has shown you clearly what the plan is, but unlike your TV set greenwald didnt tell you what to think about this stuff he just provided info. If you add it all up its quite clear what is happening, and also what has already happened, what does it take for people to wake the fuck up and see ,its all right there in front of you. People with lessor means than the people in this article were crushed,not spied on.
Thanks for the intro to techdirt.
Since it is the government that ought to be on the watch list, maybe we should refuse to do business with them.
Since government is totally non-productive, eventually they’d have to start their own buying club to buy anything.
This would be simple as refusing to accept government credit cards or as difficult as finding government employees who are customers and refusing to trade with them. Make sure that you clearly post warnings so they won’t have to find out the way that so many on the no fly list do. Of course, you could let them know that the instant transaction is their last with you.
OK. Don’t you dare drive on government roads, or on private property unless you get permission. And disband the military.
I hope they are monitoring the Muslim terrorist king obama as well. The real threat to this country.
AmeriKKKa
If you want to hear what real journalism sounds like, listen to Alex Jones coordinate, from Austin, reporter Joe Biggs in Murrieta, CA where the latter encounters Homeland Border Control agents 75 miles north of Mexico:
http://prisonplanet.tv/news/watch_free/free_to_look_audio.php
Sounds more like a Monkey Trial to me. Those are kids, you ghouls, not objects for disembarking.
If we hadn’t made Central America a killing ground, they’d have preferred to stick around. Now Mexico is fading on us, here come our neighborhoods.
I would suggest you google William Cooper and listen to him, he was murdered around july of 2001, right after claiming the government needed a huge event to push the next part of their agenda. He also made comments about Alex
The comments he made about Jones were wackadoodle. Cooper also mistook a small dark shadow crossing the limb of the driver in the Zapruder film as evidence of something it wasn’t. Behold a Pale Horse contained a lot of nonsense too. He held a piece or two of the world’s puzzle like everyone else, but Cooper wasn’t all that bright.
Want a great propaganda movie to file away…?
U.S. Senators shot dead for not playing ball with secret agency criminals calling themselves patriots; major international monetary funds hacked for hundreds of billions to supposedly fund secret counter-terrorism efforts; with a new philosophy in counter-terror taking insanely disproportionate responses to a whole new level…
How about if that same secret government organization even killed citizens on U.S. soil to steal that huge sum and escalate wars of terror in the name of defending America?
That movie was “SWORDFISH,” and was released 3 months before 9/11.
It’s just that the script you outlined is an unfocused, confused narrative that doesn’t fit into the coherent, consistent, time-tested theory of globalism.
Oh yeah, like you’re a subject matter expert on coherent anything…
Alex Jones is real journalism? Then…. why are you here? Alex Jones is a right wing conspiracy nut case through and through. His type of “journalism” gives cover to those actually perpetrating unconstitutional acts because serious people with serious claims against the government get lumped in with his wing-nuttery. Again, why are you here?
Oh.. pardon me, I’m a little slow…. all this time I thought you might be Glenn Beck, now I see… you are actually Alex Jones! That explains a lot. Pretty cheap shit though, coming to someone’s web page and trying to siphon off readers… although with your posting quality, I’m sure you would just be taking a few boring wing nuts with you… so do carry on! Nice to meet you, my dim-witted little friend. Oh and again… why are you here?
John, have you been screened for dementia?
Why are you here?
To help improve our world by opinion-making.
Why are you here? To promote authoritarian progressivism with the predictably limited vocabulary of a leftist?
Really?… and you actually think you are doing that here?
I dont agree with your total statement a few years ago “conspiracy nut case” was put on me for telling people they were being massively spied on on the internet, and people are still saying that ignoratnt shit after Snowden has shown its all true. “gives cover to those actually perpetrating unconstitutional acts because serious people with serious claims against the government get lumped in with his wing-nuttery. Again, why are you here?: is true, he discredit anyone that listen or follows him. and that all fits into me talking about these labels people throw around its all the same game
This should not be surprising to us give if we look the recent american history in retrospect. From time to time the American government becomes fixated with issues posed to the public as must pursue in the name of national security. Examples could be more, but among the most vivid are the Red Scare, the Cold War etc. We know these issues protracted for years and then came to an end for reasons may be that the public saw them as deja vu. In an article in the Economist of London during the nintes, the writer weighed who would be the next enemy after the Cold war. Among the issue he weighed included not limited to Proliferation of Wapons of Mass Distruction, Russia, China or Isalm.
The writer concluded that Islam is the next enemy. Then he gave a recommendation to the two American Party Members, the Rebublicans and the Democrates. He Said,”When that comes you better be one team.” I believe this would end also as those issues ended, and may be will be replaced by some other issue may be in discussion now in some government arenas. However, within this many damages will be done before it comes to an end.Those listed above are just the tip of the iceberg.
Dear Zelda,
Now that the Agency is profiling on the basis of looks and affiliations, should I bring this picture to their attention? Look at this picture from yesterday! They look like thugs, they’re heavily armed and they’re skulking on the US-Mexican border. Would this be good for a new round of profiling?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/07/10/1313035/-Sean-Hannity-tours-Texas-border-with-Rick-Perry
Agent CN XX7-1/2
– – –
Dear CN,
Absolutely! Obviously suspicious characters. Certainly if the Agency examines all their contacts, friends, creditors, ex-wives, mistresses, relatives, “business” acquaintances it will certainly pull in a lot of intel. Do pass this on to your controllers and tell them Zelda thinks there’s a Medal of Freedom in it for you.
Zelda
TO: Controller Topsy Crett
FROM: CN XX 7-1/2
Boss! A follow-up to that tip from Daily Kos about the bad guys on the border. One of the Kos hyperlinks had this twitter feed —
https://twitter.com/seanhannity/status/487272470567583744/photo/1
— and it had this bit of intelligence down the page.
A country that can’t control its rooming houses has problems! Tell Congressman Issa Notsa that he should investigate the US Dept of Housing and Urban Development, toot sweet!
A note to those who think all Muslims are terrorists:
I’m going to say this in the nicest way I possibly can. You, along with the majority of this nation, are a disgrace to humans. This beautiful country was founded on the beliefs that no person should be persecuted for their religious standing. Generations have fought to assure us the freedom and happiness we think we have yet people like you are completely fine with getting surveilled. It’s not a matter of whether you have anything to hide, but rather the fact that branches of the US government feel that they can do as they please without justifying anything. It is completely unconstitutional and biased to target these people just based on the fact that they also happen to be Muslims. Then again, like the majority of its citizens, I’m sure you have no idea what amendments even constitute the US Bill of Rights, let alone the idea and meaning behind the Constitution. Which leads to the biggest issue that plagues our country. People these days are ignorant, unknowledgeable, and gullible to a degree I never thought possible. People would believe I sprouted wings from my ass and started flying if it was posted all over “Facebook” and other social media outlets. Hell, the average American ADULT reads at a 6th grade level, making us one of the dumbest “1st world” countries n existence. And don’t forget about the Holocaust, The Crusades, or the American Westward Expansion. All of these events lead to the tragic slaughter of millions of people who posed no threats, and none of them were associated with Muslims. For that matter, The Crusades existed with the sole purpose to convert whomever they could to Christianity and kill the rest. Hmmmm, sounds a lot like terrorism to me, does that mean we should start surveilling the Pope and the catholic church? My point is that you can’t judge a person based on religious belief, and you shouldn’t generalize a whole group of people, over 1.6 Billion people (roughly 24% of the world’s population), because of small factions. So please, truly educate yourselves on the religions of the world because if you actually met a Muslim and talked to them for a minute, or read up to see what they believe, you’d be quite shocked to find out that they too believe in Jesus, Abraham, Moses, and all of the other prophets of Judaism and Christianity. In fact, they probably make better Christians than most of the people who call themselves as such. And if you don’t understand that, I pity you as well as thank you, for you have made my point for me.
Trailer of Phil Donahue’s just released film on the truth about the Iraq War. http://www.bodyofwar.com
This film is from 2007. My mistake. I thought it was a new film.
No problem. These five Muslim Americans were tapped in 2008. There’s nothing new here either.
Still a good feed and wondering if they leaned on Jeremy for any data.
he got booted off the air even though he was the number one show at the time, because he was against the war.
OMG, don’t ask Flake’s kid to watch your dogs. What a disaster! I resent folks who don’t take proper care of their duties. That place should have been manned 24/7.
Trusting in a Flake was their first mistake. The other was not calling HOME!! Why isn’t anyone picking UP? Bueller?
I guess Glenn’s kinda in the same squeeze as GCHQ, but reversed. GCHQ did NOT want News of the World’s hacking investigated because they were up to the same illegal game and might have been exposed if 5000 other victims’ cases were pursued thorough their buggered telephony system. So GCHQ likely told the police to tell the prosecutors there was nothing to see, move along. When the police got busted hiding the depth of this victimization from prosecutors is when they claimed they cared too much to upset the poor victims of these thousands of crimes to have alerted them. People had to sue police to learn of their fates.
I expect Glenn actually does care about those who have been targeted and how they’d like the press to frame their defamed posteriors. If you don”t want you career destroyed by such an intrusive observation period on your record, you might choose to let others brave the fight to get everyone’s rights back. Seriously, anyone rushing to do business with these men, now?
I imagine there are MANY among News of the World’s victims who would gladly let it go if they could be assured no one will ever learn what was stolen from their private lives. I myself wouldn’t trust the dirty buggers to keep it shuttered, so out yourselves and shame the devils!!
Easy for me to say. I’m a nobody with little to lose. But if you are among the targets of GCHQ and NSA, you’d be better off saying so, now. If you vanish, we won’t know why.
The Rude Pundit reflects on this story.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/07/yes-everything-is-worse-than-it-seems_9.html
Rudy throws in a bonus:
Which brings us past 2008.
Progressives sure know how to pick ’em, don’t they?
My bro calls his stoma Rudy because he’s always talking shite. Doc says not to name him because Bro will miss him when he’s gone. Like Rudy isn’t just moving down the block into a better neighborhood.
Moveon, hope busters. We got bigger Dicks to fry. I can’t understand why Tea Crackers aren’t rolling out the inquiries so we can get on with the expulsions and impeachment. Of course I don’t expect Dems to do it for us, the losers, but the GOP’s covering their own arses with O’s!
people really need to put down the labeling of everyone and everything , it does nothing positive and infact divides the people, we need to be Americans all together and make a stand, Bush was a crook traitor Obama is no different. Believe something is any different means you are in total denial of reality
It’s probably just a phase as I once thought all could coagulate into one proper performance, but I now see so many PsOV my image of humanity is sand dancing on a tom tom. It all goes up and down together, but each is his own little boat. Wavy man.
I usually get sold CIA school cred courses, but now I’m getting criminal defense referals. Cozy up to me, you fuzzy black poodle. I’ll search your lights out.
What about Sir Dunstone makes you want to let yourselves out? He knows he’s screwed, 2, GCHQ. I grew up with monstrous little brothers, grow a few.
Believe something is any different ….
If you think progressives think like conservatives, and commonly-understood descriptors aren’t applicable as shorthand definitions for political concepts, then why do you even bother trying to use nouns?
I believe none of that useless bullshit matters and will not help change the decline of freedom in the United States, I believe it is another distraction to divide the people, I believe you have been programed to do this job for the government by the propaganda you choose to listen 2. The labels serve no usefull purpose except to divide people based on the label put on them, was that clear or should I type more the labels are useless except to divide the people, do you understand that statement? or is it far over your head
I think all the labels are pointless useless and only divide people. I think people that use these label are doing the governments work, without having a clue, and in some cases people do it totally understanding the end result<you would be one of those people, your just the sheeple, parrot
I think you want a world wherein ideas and belief systems can’t be efficiently categorized and distilled for analysis by others, out of hard feelings by their adherents.
Absolutely! Just like the progressive in the White House during the Mohammed Raghead investigation of 2004-2008. And one of them was his appointee to Homeland Security, no less. Now that’s picking ’em. Heckuva job.
You’re ignoring that the “‘voodoo economics’ deriding,” reproductive rights friendly Bush family is notoriously socially left wing.
Neo-con is ‘new-,’ ‘acceptable-,’ ‘improved-’ “con,”; the Trotskyite movement was brought directly to North America via Mexico City in the 40s by Irving Kristol.
They even worked hand in glove with Lieberman to build DHS. After all, “homeland” is Bolshevik nomenclature.
Didn’t even make it through the first paragraph before closing that webpage.
Seeing that Glenn’s article could not determine why the NSA/FBI surveilled these 5 individuals, the above quote by this author is without any basis or merit at all. It is just an example of fact-devoid confirmation bias.
Glenn’s article was great and raised questions that need to be answered by the NSA, but baseless speculation such as rudepundit’s only distort the actual story’s message and spreads misinformation.
Now, this is an odd story. But probably apropos. Certainly it will pique Glenn’s interest if he hasn’t seen it in the Brazilian press, but in all the noise about the Cup, it may have gone unnoticed.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/07/joe-biden-brazil-interrogation-report-world-cup
With hyperlinks. And it’s worth mentioning that President Rousseff herself was one of the prisoners of this regime.
Fool, fool, fool. These people ARE CIA agent and spies. Hooshang Amir Ahmadi widely known as CIA agent in Iran. CIA and FBI alwasys have their asset, and agent under survaillance to make sure that they are doing what they want them to do and don’t become double agent. This known and old information prove that Greenwald, is ALSO CIA AGENT, he works closely with a known CIA agent Pierre Omidyar who funded Ukraine riot for regime change. Every one with more than two brain cell knows Juan Cole is CIA asset dummies. Be careful with ‘snowdown project’.
Our posts are probably getting even too disruptive for the courtesy of neighboring media sites. Have any of you (probably a few) been introduced to General Assembly and twinkling? It might quiet posts down a little at Intercept comments, and also make it more democratic.
How about it?
!!!!! !!!!! as opposed to ….. ….. ???
Is this what you mean? I went down town a few times to join in the scene. I’m unfamiliar with how to do so with typeface. But I agree, without a like style button, I make another point rather than just endorse theirs. What a waste of praise.
As a teacher, flicking the light was my fave way to bring the cluster to a point.
I’m retired now, so don’t expect me to follow orders.
Make no mistake, Im a huge greenwald fan, but in the light of his late work with privacy issues, snowmen/nsa, this, from 2005, is very confusing… http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2005/11/myth-of-international-wisdom.html
I understand people’s thought evolve and opinions change which is a good thing, but it would be nice to hear from Greenwald what he thinks about his writing from back in the days…
I don’t think he’s saying the US should do what other want so we are loved. He says we should do as we need to to secure ourselves, but that does not likely include the self-destruction of our tech industry attempting to be the biggest Dicks in history. He’s simply saying Ig is pouring a weak pint. Nobody likes a bully. Well, Duh.
You mean thoughts like this?
“Contrary to the annoying and childish assumption of so many, other governments and the populations of other countries are judging America’s actions not based upon some universal standard of morality or from some elevated perch of wisdom and goodness, such that their disapproval is proof that America is wrong. Whether they admit it or not, these other populations are judging America’s foreign policy based on their perception of the impact which America’s actions have on their country’s interests.”
You asked him about that on twitter just a few hours ago. He replied with a link to a long Q&A which was prefixed by a dkos writer, SuperBowIXX. Seems it would have been reasonable of you to have posted that here.
But since you didn’t, here it is:
Glenn Greenwald responds to wide spread lies about Him (on Cato, Iraq war and more)
If you’re a regular reader of Glenn Greenwald’s like I am, you may have occasionally come across some rather vicious lies about his character – that he’s a right-wing libertarian and that he supported the Iraq War, among others. I don’t know where these claims originated, but I’ve read plenty of blog posts and comments propagating them during the past few years – both on Daily Kos and elsewhere – and I had hoped for a long time that he would write a comprehensive post debunking them.–SuperBowlXX
Thanks for that link. It’s a comprehensive debunking of the charges against GG, from the source.
I think his claim that people don’t oppose policies on principle, but based on how their interests are affected, is an unfair generalization. But other than that, his logic is correct: Surveys on how countries feel about one another don’t exactly tell you if a policy is correct or not. There are other considerations that should matter much more in such an analysis.
To me,they are barking up the wrong tree,as the enemy ,is along the Eastern Mediterranean sea.
Turkey? Come on, baster, before I toss a Cypriot at you!!
Glenn,
Where’s the rest of it, was mass surveillance only aimed at Muslims? There’s not one white , activist, reporter, scholar, professor or government official that was tapped. All those other educations must include someone other than Muslims. Where’s the rest of the story, who else was tapped?
I meant “other email addresses” not “other educations.” The spell check function on this board is hypersensitive
In the past Glenn had also discoursed quite a bit in the Guardian that Muslim Americans were surveilled by NYPD. It looks like it’s limited to Muslim Americans.
It’s both offensive and, in a way, reassuring that it’s not more widespread.
I thought he was going to release the actual data. The screen capture has more black on it than anything else. What’s the point? Big letdown. I call bs.
Now American Muslims are subject to surveillance and the next in line are the people to advocate this action. Edward Snowden give a list of European and south American leaders that NSA was doing surveillance on but I think he forgot to provide a list of Muslim leaders who are under the same umbrella for more then 50 years. And I can understand the list of head of states, dictators, kings, and their families that NSA is collecting information from Muslim countries is so long that he dont even bother providing it to the world. This is a agony of defeat for the civil rights of all American citizens whom migrate to this country hoping that America is the champion of civil rights.
Isn’t that the way it always has been? Last guy in the door gets his lights punched out? Welcome to the damned family!! Thanks for doing our heavy lifting for US!
Mormons, now there’s a family joke. The GOP invented the crime of polygamy to deny voting rights, jury duty and office holding rights to the largest Dem voting block in the Territories. Thus many Mormons self-deported to Mexico like the Romneys, but not the Flakes or Udalls. Those who stayed and stood their ground to restore their rights tend to hold to the Mormon’s original political party, but the Flakes defy the pattern. WTF Flakes?
why are we surprised that surveillance agencies are doing exactly what they’re designed to do?
Surveil.
it’s kinda in the name folks.
spying on friendly nations?
nobody ever said they’d always be a friendly nation.
spying on our citizens?
dragnet style, where you surveil EVERYONE (big brother style) not only no but fuck no.
targeted surveillance on individuals on a case by case basis?
why would you not?
It’s kinda in the article, Mikel. Did you read it?
The article is so soft it seems like something’s wrong. I was expecting a bunch of stories like mine and an accurate assessment of the number of people effected. I now warn the entire event is as they say a massive “psyop”, “limited hangout”, and “red herring”.
most americans reaction to this article:
1.) I know.
2.) Good.
-we see from theintercepts Bahamas article r1b intel watching drugs pour into country then arresting 90% non-r1b’s with a 90% r1b(whatever, 100% r1b controlled) “law enforcement”/judiciary.(while poisoning the entire population with the drugs)
-We see 100% r1b controlled education apparatus recording every detail of every student’s brain and behavior (by r1b law); then foreign policy, design of society,etc ends up to 100% r1b benefit, precision detriment to everyone else.
-psychiatric institution workers and “orchestrators” to patient ratio throughout history in r1b abused countries show same precision genocide.
non-r1b(*missing information) whites are abused and eradicated just as much as blacks in 5eyes countries, just in different ways.
r1b intel apparatus is assassinating (in one way or another) every single individual they feel like, especially potential leaders or policy changers/makers.
Haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b_(Y-DNA)
I prefer this picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/R1b-DNA-Distribution.jpg
but of course it doesn’t show “current” Australia, new Zealand, north and south America.
Also as I’ve reported a few years ago before my r1b government tortured, mutilated and attempted to assassinate me(again), and erased all of my posts on a phylogenetics website..(which was in retaliation for the r1b intel destroying my company for no reason to begin with): every single word printed by the 100% controlled r1b archaeology/phylogenetics industry are lies just like they lie about everything else. It is very important to understand that. For instance, when I was young the estimated time of arrival for Amerindians was 150-130k years, 10 years later it was 50-30k years and now it’s pushed all the way to 5-13k years with all r and q ydna!… and on the other end the same has happened for r1b in the other direction, they mysteriously just seem to keep getting older and older..
Its very easy to detect their archaeology lies because every word of every paragraph they write is of precision benefit to themselves… and of course their writing only has to be smart enough to fool the “majority” which is themselves.
There is basically an emergency situation in the archaeology and phylogenetics industries because it is obvious premeditated genocide and they assassinate(in one way or another) anyone who tells the truth. They take over 5 continents with lies and genocide in a couple hundred years and now were supposed to believe in their big “terrorism” lie (which we watch them intentionally causing to lock everything on earth up and torture).
Germany has just kicked out CIA chief over the spying situation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/germany-expels-us-intelligence-station-chief-over-spying-allegations/2014/07/10/dc60b1f0-083c-11e4-8a6a-19355c7e870a_story.html
The TTIP/NATO fabric is fraying. I really want to see the rest of the list. The Chinese water torture is worse than waterboarding.
Oh, enjoy some time with this. I’m having a great fun watching them reap their whirly gigs.
I assumed they fracked up NATO, too, so I’ve been afraid to email my nephew who I was hoping I might stay with if I went back to Germany…only 10 clicks from my Old Dutch stamping grounds which Goog won’t even let us look at. I’ve been vocally opposing this mess since it was revealed. Wouldn’t want any of it to get back to him. Apparently, by way of that stalker Linkedin, I’m told he’s coming back to HOUSTON…any problems, GCHQ? Early? I promise I won’t relay him any signals until he’s home SAFE and decommissioned, oscillators.
If Islam is a supposed religion of peace, why should anybody object against any form of monitoring !?
Isn’t it time to educate ourselves?:
There is an enormous void in understanding the religious ideological core of this conflict. This concerns all areas of the secular world which includes politics, media and the general public.
Hamas made the following movie, which does not conceal much:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMw80GQPXhU
This thread is not exclusive to only ‘Palestine';
The objectives of ISIS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3mnfaMa7RM
Strategies, IDF versus HAMAS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMO-_qEpgg0
We are heading to the final stages of the most cruel ideological conflict ever. It is now more then ever crucial for us to have an all comprehesive understanding of the fatal ideological component which is the devastating force behind this conflict. If we fail to do so we will be accomplices of the dire consequences, not only for Jews and Christians and others as we are already witnessing, but eventually for ourselves as well.
A Zionist group home escapee.My God,the pathetic tribalism of it all,by monsters of their id.
I dunno, there’s lots of contenders for that title…and if I had a nickel for every time some clown declared “this is it! The end is coming! It’s the Final Countdown!” I’d be set for life.
Meanwhile, Indonesia, the largest Muslim nation on the planet, is electing themselves an Obamaman. I hope theirs cares more about Liberty than ours.
========
Short Answer: Yes, it is in fact time to educate yourself, that Islam is not monolithic! If it is, then how do you explain Malala?
Long Answer:
Yes, it is in fact time to educate yourself, that Islam is not monolithic!.
There are many currents within it.
Some are bad to evil (e.g., The Wahhabis, Taliban, al-Qaeda, ISIS, etc.)
Most are benign and everyday variety. Their adherents focus on personal piety, obeying the law of the land, getting education, jobs, setting up businesses, providing for their families and living ordinary lives as productive members of their societies, helping with the development of these societies.
Some are excellent as, in addition to the second type above, they focus on self knowledge and development using advanced spiritual practices, e.g., various Sufi Orders.
Moreover, if Islam is to be cleansed of the first category of Muslims, it is more effective if the second and the third categories of Muslims participate in the effort. By alienating these law-abiding, peace-loving Muslims, it’ll be more difficult.
Additionally, many Muslims are presenting alternate interpretations of certain issues, such as the un-Quranic blasphemy law, which is in effect in some Muslim countries, such as Pakistan.
These reformers are able to speak out against this law more freely in the West as it has become dangerous for many Muslims to speak out against this law — a provincial governor in Pakistan was assassinated by his bodyguard because he called for a review of this law. Sadly, his assassination was praised by many Muslims.
So if you brand ALL Muslims as evil, then you make it a lot more difficult for us to reform Islam.
I just want to point something very basic out to all of the people that seem to eat the new media propaganda for breakfast.
1) Most things you know about these people have came directly from the government if you saw it in US Media, they only parrot the Government views Im not sure how long it has been this bad but for sometime now
2) it is a human thing for people to fight for what they believe in, this has nothing to do with the church they attend, Just because someone believes different than you and choses to fight for it doesnt make them bad ,just different PS it also doesnt make it your business to get involved
3) As far as I can tell only one nation in the world actually runs around trying to ram there ideas of how everything should be down everyone else throat, there is only one nation doing this, most other places are minding there own business
4) the whole things comes down to how stories get told and presented to people, in most cases that has nothing to do with what really happened and more to do with what they want you to think happened
5) you cant poke a rattle snake with a stick for days and days stiring him up and then whine like a baby when he bites you, and then also claim it was an un provoked attack< this is the part that US media alway leave out, they always tell these storie whatever it is like we were walking along and someone attacked us because they dont like our freedoms, lets leave out that we invaded their homeland trying to ram western view down there throat, lets leave out all the nasty things we did and claim we are a victim of these evil people,Americans ego's are so huge they will buy it.
6) The current twisted American belief, is that these people are attacking us daily, its odd they attack us places we have invaded, so we have moved into someone elses, part of the world and they want us out,so they fight to get us out, no shit, Im shocked and suprized, I would expect them to just stand aside and let the USA take over, I mean if the Russians invaded here thats what we would do right,all americans would say well we are under Russian control now we must do as they say.< I think that would not happen, I think Americans would stand and fight to the death to remove foreign invaders from our counrty.
7) we are to believe that a small group of people that go to said church are on a mission to change the United States, what we believe and how we live, and I say anyone that believes this is completely insane
I was being a targeted affluent whiteboy (woe as me) about the first story today resenting the failure to release a more comprehensive list of nsa targets. I’m a 2010 SF Newsom Pelosi Feinstein government transparency advocate target (talk amongst yourselves…) but then I saw Keith Ellison’s recommendation Keith Ellison rocks. Always Has. Epiphonousimosity Set In. Started looking at first story as as a story (and pending lawsuit) about ALL Americans. Started making a mental list of who we already knwo are on the list. IC key word search frenzy. Tor users, tails users, people searching for Tor or Tails or DARPA, Occupy protesters, Peace advocates, Animal rights advocates, Environmental advocates, boing boing readers, bruce schnierer readers, Anti-War Readers, Intercept readers etc. etc. etc. etc.
WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER
PUT STARS BY IT
Reply
I think those who can think and don’t cling to wasteful hoping know this. So why are you calling for PSBI to join us? PSBI hates US.
I just read some telecoms got $65 million annually to store the UK’s dope.
Where is that article? The one where the owner of Talk Talk talks about how much he hates having to deal with being a telephony provider and wished he stuck with selling the damned Carphones. He’s very well connected, but doesn’t like dealing with mobile ad networkers. So I recalled he said. Right to be forgotten?
Palestinians are invisible. http://www.electronicintifada.net/blogs/rania-khalek/abc-news-tells-viewers-scenes-destruction-gaza-are-israel
And dead.
Even the lame stream, I don’t mean cable because I don’t watch the shite, is claiming Israel is far more effective at terrorizing and killing than Hamas. Hamas and the Israeli government seem suicidal. Or is it just election time, again? Time to appeal to the bases.
In order to function properly, a police state needs enemies — counterrevolutionaries, anarchists, insurgents, jacobins, communists, jews, muslims, christians (for nero), etc.
How else will our brave defenders of the status quo maintain their their powers and prestige?
As the old Stasi saying goes,
It’s ‘Business Time’..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhN93rFZuJs
“..a-Chicka-chicka, a-chicka-chicka, a-chicka-chickow-ow-oww!”
Damn the courts. UK ramps it up. http://goo.gl/CvUwcu
Sounds like some get out of jail swipe cards are being activated to me.
Isn’t this what the Kiwis did? Retroactively made stealing data legal so their Henry Committee wouldn’t get busted for handling same stolen data while trying to plug the leakers?
That’s all wonderful, except KGB files released after the fall odd the USSR unequivocally show Sen. McCarthy was indeed right. Alger Hiss was a Society spy; they dos infiltrate our government at the highest levels; communists had indeed infiltrated Hollywood studios.
Yeah,as all those Trotskite commies went Zionist,yes,we are in a national crisis,where our sovereignty has been absconded by dual citizen traitors,and our govt and military as Zionist muscle,all the while we let them murder at will,as they demean themselves and US in their anti-intellectual insanity.
I found the recent discussion of the penetration of Dr. Zhivago into Russia to be enlightening. How sadly signal systems have degraded since. Here’s some more of Miley’s lame arse, boys.
I just watched Manchurian Candidate and then Iron Lady. Man, that Maggie gets around!
Orson Wells was 86% communist in those years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dAGcorF1Vo
KGB documents released after the collapse of the USSR showed unequivocally that Sen. McCarthy was right. Hiss was indeed a Soviet spy, the highest levels of our government was infiltrated by Soviet spies, and Hollywood was recognized for its propaganda value and targeted for infiltration. And yet, today’s lefties keep using McCarthy as code for political histerias.
What os the source of this disingenuous trading of history?
I’ve several times left word that Oliver should overthrow the Wall Street Plot starting with Butler’s being wounded in Teintsin illustrating his gangstering Marina days with Brown and Root, until he takes down MacArthur in the 1934 hearing room.
But the big grunt won’t hear of it. Not even Cornie Vanderbilt’s Italian Vacation Story told out of Traffic School which Butler let loose on a Philly station. “Mussolini Hit and Run Driver,” NYTs 1931. For crying out loud…what’s it worth that folks are so loath to entertain themselves with another Wall Street flameout? Why, Oliver could even claim the SEC was the outcome of their capitulation for having been such bad bad guys. Joe Kennedy managed the deal for them.
“Do you know Jack….?”
“I don’t know…Jack?”
That is one of the funnest House committee transcripts in hissyfistory.
GLEN is breaking trust big time here with me …. this is pre-Obama – and Obama literally blew any safeguards or the prior conservative interp away – this list is irrelevant now and has nothing to do with the situation currently and since Obama got into power – why is that? My concern was Greenwald my try to make a deal to keep himself from prosecution … an actual more recent list would be explosive to the Obama admin …. hope that isn’t what has happened – but if a list from nsa to fbi to local cops isn’t complied from after Obama came into office, it means nothing
UM, Obama massively expanded surveillance …. anything before 2008 means little and is not even close to the real picture
I wonder…did these cases get dropped when O found out, or moved to Diego Garcia?
THIS is by far an incomplete list as it only pertains to targeting approved by the FISA court ….. WHAT about targets who are not foreign??? The FBI and local law enforcement now have permanent, ongoing target lists as well not pertaining to terror and based on the same warrantless, cause-less approach and using the same rubber stamping for essentially permanent surveillance ….
Foreigners have no rights under US law, so no one could object to spying on them. Spying on Americans is more of a gray area, since the US Constitution unwisely placed some restraints on government powers. These restraints are a bit archaic and widely ignored, but there are a number of fundamentalists who still adhere to them. So it seems a reasonable compromise that any Americans who communicate with foreigners will be subject to surveillance, while those who do not will be left alone. Making this distinction is why the FISA courts were created in the first place.
The compromise seems to be a reasonable one. After all, communicating with foreigners exposes Americans to potentially dangerous foreign ideas. Most will be sufficiently inculcated with the truth to resist these ideas, but some might be tempted by them. All of these individuals seem to be admirable Americans, and some based on the photographic evidence, are even able to pose with George Bush or Hillary Clinton without throwing a shoe at them. But I think that further investigation will confirm that all of them did at some point communicate with foreign persons. So sadly, placing them under surveillance was the only choice.
This leaves the question of why some other Americans, who also have communicated with foreign persons, were not placed under surveillance. The NSA may simply not have sufficient resources to properly fulfill their mandate. However, it is not too late to act and the next session of Congress can rectify the situation by doubling the NSA’s operating budget.
Meanwhile, Benito remains at the top of the 100 Heads Insurance Co. 4th Gen warfare list.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_RncdHHdbig/U7lqLpJe1xI/AAAAAAAAbwQ/UbLHnx-tuv0/s1600/get-attachment+(6).jpg
O/T At the risk of communicating w/ a feriegner, I think you could use a rag on your head, Benitoe … or at least a coon-skin cap. *the glare off your dome is hurting my eyes … squint.
Have you been completely asleep for the whole Snowden reporting. I guess you spent zero time reading the story where they pointed out many lawyers deal with foreign Countrys but those Lawyers were not found on any lists, so the whole Idea in you brainwashed American statement does not hold water, it makes you feel good and it makes you feel like they are doing things for a just reason,but the facts are that is bullshit, you choose to believe. They also route traffci on the internet in ways that make you subject to this same treatment,if you spent anytime reading the info that has been published on this subject the past year. Meaning while you are sitting at your PC in the USA they send the traffic to This website through a router in say Mexico or Canada making the internet traffic foreign ,they then use that to do what they want with the data. You also might want to consider how this gets stretched for instance you are double had, because someone from another Country posts a comment here, and they use that to suck you up. eerything I just said is documented facts
Surely, I am not surprised at this latest news about FISA cases against American Muslims. Since moving overseas in Africa, American Muslims are targeted in numerous programs designed to remove American Muslims from Muslim Countries.
American Islamic policies and interest are fueling unrest in Muslim Countries. Devout Muslims are under heavy duress in America and in Islamic Countries because of American Security Agreements that call for the interdiction of Devout Muslims and malign them as terrorist suspects.
To practice our faith to the fullest is not possible under current US Islamic policies. You are better off worshiping ants, dogs or cats than Islam. Nevertheless, this is by design. American think tanks and anti Islamic opponents fear the return of the Caliphate. Any Muslim American or otherwise cannot desire, advocate, suggest or want to live under the Shari’a of Allah Ta’ala.
Sadly, I believe that the matters will worsen as unrest continues in Islamic lands. American Muslims will shoulder the brunt of attacks, targets and character assassination and injustices which currently many American Muslims are being jailed.
Well, it hasn’t quite come to that (depending on your definition of “many”). There are no mass roundups of Muslims. But there’s no question that American Muslims are being subjected to excessive government scrutiny that is literally unwarranted, out of pants-wetting fear that a radical jihadist might slip through the net and blow something up- after which fingers will be pointed and jobs will be lost. That’s the real fear at work here.
There are of course the usual number of bigoted morons who think anyone who doesn’t worship the invisible sky-god the same way they do is subhuman; you find those people in any population and in every religion. It’s part of the willful insanity spawned by fear of death that is religion. Ohmigosh, if their religion is right and my religion is wrong, won’t I have egg on my face after the end…so they have to be wrong! They have to be bad people trying to mislead me! And so it goes, down through the millenia. Here we are.
The US government is Fucked Up to the Nth degree. Billions are given to childish schemes like this, while democracy and the people suffer. Keep it Up Intercept!!!!! Out these assholes!
You should make a way for the owners of email addresses to be able to query your list to see if their address is on it.
Never trust a muslim.
I’ve never heard that one.I always heard it was,never trust a Jew.Funny dat,huh?
I often think that replacing “Muslim” with “Jew” or “Jewish” in media stories and other writings is a useful clarifying thought experiment. Imagine that substitution in the headline of GG and MH’s article — what a shitstorm would ensue!
As both may be Semitic, you missed that one on the diversity test. There are those who hate Jews and Muslims equally, I think they called themselves German Christians in 1935. Today, it’s anyone’s guess. I just exploit the Irish to make my barb.
Jesus, those German Christians claimed he was a captured Aryan taken in chains to Jerusalem sohe was never Jewish. Thus even Romans are Jews to them. That’s how they claim the Pope is Jewish. Or, they aren’t over themselves yet, either.
There’s not a thing wrong w/ watching a group that has a history of terrorism. Just like the KKK, White Supr.,or Black Panthers who all have the same type history. NO ONE SAYS SHIZZ when it came out that they were spying on some Rep.! Its like keeping track of child molesters or rapist !
You are full of excrement or a complete moron or both. The Black Panthers had terrorism inflicted on them. Get your facts straight. If you know anything untainted by propaganda, you know that. Decades in solitary confinement on trumped up charges. Terrorist police bombing of a city block in Philadelphia (?) that killed men women and children. Another raid that was later determined by forensic examination to be a murderous attack on sleeping people by the police that was framed as self defense. There are dozens of examples of the police murdering beating and doing the racist work of the state when it comes to black activists, so I’m not letting you slide on that big fucking lie.
I wonder what the shills and apologists for the surveillance state will say in reaction to THIS piece! Ha. Like there is anything left for them to say.
(I haven’t perused twitter or the blogs or looked at the comments here yet.)
You know what I noticed awhile back? The shills and apologists seem lately to be putting their efforts into getting people to believe that what the NSA was doing, is doing, is constitutional, c-approved, or some such thing. Sometimes they tweet comments to the effect that Americans voted for mass surveillance. I kid you not, I saw that on twitter. That shill would probably insist until the cows come home that he meant that seriously and that it is true. How are you supposed to talk to people like that? Anyway, as I was saying, aside from trying to influence gullible people, their efforts seem focused on trying to make sure that they don’t get into trouble, lose their funding, etc., that if anyone is to get into trouble it will not be them, because they are not to blame.
But what kind of attitude is that? Blame Someone Else, or I Was Just Following Orders. How are people with attitudes like that to be trusted to do the right thing?
That’s been one of their arguments all along.
That’s the real motivation. They know on some level that what they’re defending is unethical and just plain wrong, and they don’t want the finger pointing at them when it comes time to pay the piper. And really, who would? I pity them. At the same time, they need to be held to account.
They shouldn’t be. But they were, and now we all pay the price.
FISA Court grants surveillance warrant on ham sandwich. Said to be close associate of someone who knew someone who read about someone who was suspected of knowing someone who went to Afghanistan.
A discriminating spy might see from the gitmo that the ham is not kosher. Unlikely to be anything more than a lunch bugger.
To Glenn and Murtazza, Laura and the other director, the camera crew and supporting reporter:
great story! I particularly enjoyed seeing the videos, it really personalized the gentlemen’s stories.
I am outraged that these dispicable snoops had no regard even for attorney-client privilege. How can we not be enraged at that? And Mr. Awad nailed it when he said we must speak up against this because it’s only a matter of time before they come for you. I also agree with the other posters who noted the courage of these men in telling their stories.
On another note – several posters have asked if we can find out if we’re on a target list. I’d like to ask that as well. But I’m not sure if I should be proud to be on it or highly concerned. And if I’m NOT on it – should I be relieved or upset I’m not on their radar? Of course most of us are probably surveilled to some degree, but I feel we should find out to what level, anyway!
Relax. intercept reporting makes it quite clear that you’re probably not, because you’re not Muslim American.
Dear Mr. Greenwald
You announced that you would be releasing the names of American targets of NSA spying. Releasing the names of 5 Muslim is not likely to arouse the passions of the American people (Liberal or conservative) and just really helps the NSA diffuse the negative sentiments that many in America have about this illegal spying. (The thinking will be, “If this is all the NSA is doing – spying on Muslim leaders – well that certainly does not include me so I guess the NSA isn’t really overstepping it’s bounds.”)
It’s hard enough to get the beaten and apathetic American population off their couch to stand up for the rights of persons much closer to them much less to give a toss about the surveillance of Musilm leaders in America. What was your thinking in presenting these five over, say, tens of thousands of regular Americans? – wouldn’t that create more of the effect we are looking for? The wake up call. What exactly are you waiting for? Since you have taken on the responsibility of exposing this threat – can you please accelerate this process? This process is becoming tedious.
Vox
Voxnews.com
http://www.voxnews.com/index.php/media-watch/item/96-letter-glen-greenwald
Vox News Editor,
Fuk’ you and your conjectural fear-mongering.
You are still saying the same thing in a different vox, PSBI. It’s really boring. I think my brains are falling out your bunghole.
My dear Mr. Vox,
Surely you cannot be as naive as you appear.
We do not need Americans to be passionate about anything. We sow the seeds of discord elsewhere. Apathetic, defeated and destitute, the American people do not have the stomach for extremism (except for our “agents vicarious” who help maintain apathy with their apparent lunacy.)
By targeting moderates, we push them into fearful silence or the very extremism we hope to inflame among Muslims.
Please stop trying to make sense of that which is beyond your understanding.
We must sanctify the world and we will do with or without your loving obedience to the Church.
Yours in the name of our Lord and Savior,
Tor K. Manda,
Washington Office of Opus Dei
White House
East Wing
Sub-basement level 3
Suite 6
Is there any way to get a look at the complete list of 7,485 email addresses? Is it possible there were/are more kept for one reason or another secret?
Sadly and Im not saying I think its right, I agree with some that this will not matter to many. The media has people thinking a Religion attacked us on 911, they also spin everything that happens to blame things on this Religion. lets forget that many of the 19 were not let into this country until someone in government made it happen,they were actually stopped coming in. Lets forget that there acton while here did not line up in the slightest with the extreme people they were claimed to be, but most of all .lets for get all the nut jobs LOL that said exactly what would happen as a result of 911 to freedom in this country, even today people are still throwing nasty words at people that said exactly how this would pan out in the end, even though they were 100% correct. I still see people being attacked talking about the spying after we know its happening, people are calling them tin foil hat wearers, even though its now all documented facts. We live in a world where people have forgotten what being American means, and reality is if people idlely sit and watch this happen to these people your ass will be next, history shows that exactly how it all happens. If this is not stopped it is truely “The End of America”
Your faith in serial liars is not reciprocated by me,as anything and almost everything the MSM spews is proven BS,and since the FBI had no evidence of OBLs involvement,one shouldn’t accept 19 alleged photos of perps put out 24 hours after an event that changed everything,witness the current events in Palestine for one proof.
The typical way one avoids making religion culpable is to play games with the credit assignment: good deeds get are attributed to religion, bad are said to be a distortion.
Religion poisons everything.
One can blame the media or, or go through other mental gymnastics to feel secure that their belief that religion is the source of good and provides the wonderful pay-off in the hereafter are engaged in laughable magical thinking.
Sickening enough, indeed.
EFF statement: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/06/eff-statement-todays-article-intercept
“The Intercept published an article last night describing secret foreign intelligence surveillance targeting American citizens. One of those citizens, Nihad Awad, is the executive director and founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the nation’s leading Muslim advocacy and civil rights organizations and a long-time client of EFF.”
……”EFF represents CAIR Foundation and two of its regional affiliates, CAIR-California and CAIR-Ohio, in a case challenging the NSA’s mass collection of Americans’ call records. More information about that case is available at: First Unitarian Church of Los Angeles v. NSA.”
The proof is in the pudding.
Wow. Just…wow…
There’s nothing unethical about spying on Muslims. They all need to be monitored.
OMG, while my dad was commanding Lackland, his biggest pilot training clients were Muslims. One of them asked dad where he got his Vet he’d been waiting for for thirty years and came in with one the next day. So, our faults again, frackers! Money was to good to pass up!
ACLU is stepping-up to the plate on this matter:
https://www.aclu.org/national-security/civil-rights-groups-ask-administration-explain-nsa-surveillance-american-muslims
They have also posted another article implying First Amendment rights violations of Civil Rights Activists. See: What’s the Government Doing Targeting Civil Rights Leaders on their website.
Sadly they are doing whatever they want whenever they want. When you have built I billion dollar spy machine to catch bad guys and there are not many bad guys you have to use the shit on someone. Even sometime you need to make shit up
As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth’s final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
Well this guy knew Bush and was spied on the American that was murdered worked for Bush at one point also, right after 911
An old adage cautions us that “America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great”. How can anyone say with a straight face that “America” is even trying to be good when Congresses and Presidents that authorize or even condone this sort of treasonous perfidy? All the more scandalous that such egregious crimes are committed in the name of “keeping people safe”!
And in other news, our old acquaintance John Yoo gets an endowed chair at the UC Berkeley School of Law.
http://www.dailycal.org/2014/06/26/john-yoo-4-others-named-endowed-law-faculty-chairs/
That is some sick stuff
You have to wonder what the UC brass think showering accolades on a guy known to have enabled torture will do for them. It’s just bizarre. “Hey, come to UCBLaw, we’re so open-minded we hire torture enablers! Even give them prestigious endowments!”
” … the chancellor also announced that Hannibal Lecter, MD, is to be the Winnie Ruth Judd Professor of Anatomy at UC Medical Center.”
I’m sure the culinary school was in close pursuit. I’m thinking there may be a, ahem, joint appointment in the near future.
He hasn’t made the cut yet. John Yoo should make the offer and see if he bites.
Don’t expect Bill Maher to object to spying on American Muslims indiscriminately.
Glenn, the accidental “journalist” furnished with a gift of PowerPoint slides to accompany his hard hitting drones (and hypocrisy of drones) coverage and other Muslim Americans’ surveillance-by-NYPD coverage, doesn’t exactly break any new ground here. I fully expect that the next [supply John Cook’s hyperbole here] reportage will doubtless reaffirm, again, that Muslim Americans are being surveilled.
And you can discuss among yourselves cloistered well away from larger, more broadly surveyed media outlets that Glenn was tempted away from.
Good work Glenn!
Greenwald is such a precious dainty dk sucking cum burping traitor.
There are so many seriously brain dead mentally conformed people here supporting a traitor it’s just beyond sad.
You people nauseate me.
Puke already. You’ll feel better.
If my name/email address is on that list I should be able to find out now, I shouldn’t have to wait. WHAT…ARE…YOU…WAITING…FOR – to publish the full list? Will you cave in to government threats to withhold some names that were obtained from all this illegal* spying?
I see that only 371 comments have been posted so far. That is a very small number, but the information that will now be gathered on each of the commentators will certainly help expand the NSA’s database. Let these foolish cranks vent their frustrations while the government continues with the important job of collecting as much info as possible on the dangerous academic “diplomats” and “defense” lawyers lurking at the core of our society. Meanwhile, satirical impersonation that causes reputational harm has been criminalized in New York, an excellent development that will finally put a stop to some of the worst “free speech” elements among these Internet rabble-rousers, a dire threat to public order if there ever was one. See the case documentation at:
http://raphaelgolbtrial.wordpress.com/
Truth is under attack, its still ok to lie, but if you speak truth your ass is in big trouble
quote”Meanwhile, satirical impersonation that causes reputational harm has been criminalized in New York, an excellent development that will finally put a stop to some of the worst “free speech” elements among these Internet rabble-rousers,…”unquote
Well then, I assume we can expect your indictment soon for satirical impersonation of a human being.
test this is a post to figure out why this refuses to post a comment
Your lack of patience is quite distracting.
wow cesorship ,why cant i post
test
why doesnt this postl;k;lk;l;
These abused individuals have standing to sue. Now we can find out is SCOTUS will rule for them.
why doesnt this post
Now the lawsuits should be flying at the NSA and the Administration. All the spied upon have standing to sue!!!!!!!!! Let’s see if SCOTUS has balls.
test why doesnt this work
hello?
Mona, is that you? Man, did I laugh my butt off when you got thrown in the clink with me. Couldn’t you hear me calling for you?
“MO-na! MO-na! Don’t worry…no… don’t worry…’cause you’re not alone, anymore..” NRBQ
If you ever figure out the real rules around this pop stand, don;t fill me in. I just love walking down the corn. I canned more than you did, I’m certain of that.
Look who the cat dragged in. Are you a sock puppet?
this is a test
So if these five people were tapped during the Bush regime, what were the “claims”
made by the USG that stopped Greenback$ from publishing? Or did Omidyar
step in on June 30 and say “you can’t write about the Obama regime since
I’m trying to get favorable legislation passed to increase my profits and investments?”
Be quiet, you Constitution-hating buffoon. People are trying to think.
Can you blame the USA, really? Unfortunately, it is going to be like this until we no longer feel threatened. We mostly ignored attacks against our country (e.g., World Trade Center 1993) and our citizens and embassies overseas for the whole of the 1990’s decade. We are not going to go back to sleep and suffer another World Trade Center style attack here at home. So maybe instead of spending so much time worrying about who is watching us we should be asking the countries that are producing these violent radicals what they can do to help change things.
Puke already. You’ll feel better.
@Bradley- “Can you blame the USA, really? Unfortunately, it is going to be like this until we no longer feel threatened. ” snip-
Unfortunately, there will always be a real or imagined “threat du jour”. Without that perceived threat, too many jobs would be lost.
I think.
Muslim Americans are treated as 2nd or 3rd Class Citizens by almost everyone – and no one is outraged when their Constitutional Rights are violated! Muslim Americans are, by any meaningful measure, treated as “Less Than Equal” by the Government and Citizens alike – having Constitutional Rights that are utterly unenforceable is tantamount to those rights being actively Denied.
It is Common Knowledge that Americans and especially Conservatives simply do not care about ANY Violations of the Constitutional Rights of any Muslim Americans. They actually support it in the name of Security and ‘that balance between privacy and security’ (a false balance).
There is NEVER outrage that Muslim Americans are ‘being targeted’, that their Privacy Rights are being violated, etc. There is actually relief that they are being monitored.
I Am A Muslim-American Leader, and the NSA Spied On Me
Nihad Awad @NihadAwad 5:56 PM ET
http://time.com/2970573/muslim-american-nsa-spies/http://time.com/2970573/muslim-american-nsa-spies/
Very well put … and, imo, conclusive proof Obama is Not a ‘secret Muslim’.
At least two of these individual are identified in DiscoverThenNetworks.org with rather sinister write-ups. No wander the FBI is interested in them.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=755
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=896
“When Edward Snowden turned over a trove of NSA documents last year, he explained that he included the spreadsheet of monitored emails because he wanted to give people subjected to electronic surveillance the opportunity to challenge the spying as unconstitutional.” – Glenn Greenwald
This is a curious sentiment for a trained intelligence operative who worked undercover for years for at least three intelligence agencies:
“I’ve worked for the Central Intelligence Agency undercover overseas, I’ve worked for the National Security Agency undercover overseas and I’ve worked for the Defense Intelligence Agency as a lecturer at the Joint Counterintelligence Training Academy where I developed sources and methods for keeping our information and people secure in the most hostile and dangerous environments around the world.” – Edward Snowden
More curious still is the fact that Glenn Greenwald chose not to disclose the fact that Snowden was an undercover intelligence operative when constructing, and subsequently defending, Snowden’s brand as a conscience-driven patriotic whistleblower. Neither did Glenn Greenwald disclose the fact that, after having initially spoken with Snowden, he (Snowden) took a job with Booz Allen Hamilton with the express intent of further acquiring documentary proof of government funded surveillance operations.
Even more curious still is the fact that Glenn Greenwald expressly claimed that there was absolutely no reason to suspect that David Miranda would be detained at Heathrow while acting in the capacity as a paid currier of the Snowden documents. Yet, the written running account of his involvement with Snowden now claims that he harbored a severe level of conscious trepidation in the months leading up to Miranda’s interception by British authorities.
When coupled with the spurious claim that he failed to perform due diligence as a necessary predicate to become involved with the likes of Pierre Omidyar, one is left no option but to view Glenn Greenwald’s highly lucrative puppeteering with a jaundiced eye.
Change agent? Indeed! The only question that remains is “Who is pulling Glenn Greenwald’s strings.”
(Sock puppets need not respond)
@wilhelmina
who’s sock puppet accounts?
Snowden gave the material to a number of news agencies. He made it clear it was up to them (the agencies) to decide on what should be published and how.
If the Guardian and New York Times etc had decided not to publish a single paper then nothing would be released.
Secondly Greenwald has never hidden anything from about Snowden. All your doing is regurgitating bulllshit unsubstantiated allegations that infowars and abovetopsecret use to get page views.
1984,
Infowars has never reported what Wilhelmina describes. Also, it does not source from Above Top Secret.
(Moreover if you do see allegations like that from ATS, please link.)
@1984
“Secondly Greenwald has never hidden anything from about Snowden. All your doing is regurgitating bulllshit unsubstantiated allegations that infowars and abovetopsecret use to get page views.” – 1984
Everything that I said is accurate and true.
1. The quote from Snowden can be validated with a simple Google search (hint: transcript of interview).
2. Show me where GG revealed the fact that Snowden was an undercover intelligence officer for the three agencies listed.
3. Snowden himself admitted that he took a job with Booz Allen Hamilton with the express intent of further acquiring documentary proof of government funded surveillance operations.
4. When challenged by me on this blog, GG claimed that there was no reason to suspect that Miranda was at risk of being intercepted by British intelligence.
5. GG claimed that he was unaware of Pierre Omidyar’s political activities prior to accepting an offer of employment from him.
Before you recklessly accuse someone of “regurgitating bulllshit”, I suggest that you first ascertain the validity of the facts to which you are taking exception.
You are right, The ‘snowden Project’ is very much an inside job, CIA. Beside, Hooshng Amir Ahmadi is widely known as CIA agent. This
infromation the was choosen by suspicious figure like Greenwald, make it 100 percent reality that actually Amir Ahmadi is CIA agent, because CIA/FBI always have their agent under survaillence to make sure that they are acting on their behalf and not as double agent.
Don’t forget that Greenwald is working closely with another CIA agent, Omidyar.
WHY is there not: 1) A strict ‘Review’ Policy, whereby warrants must be randomly challenged by a Judge – call it an “Audit” to make sure their is full, strict and honest compliance with Probable Cause; and 2) An ‘Undertaking’ and pledge language that everyone is acting honestly, in good faith and that the Probable Cause standard has been met; and 3) Finally, a Second Audit on a random basis calling for even more detailed, strict review of Probable Cause of Warrants after-the-fact, the idea being that ANY problem found later would be punishable so that any time requesting a Warrant, everyone involved knows that their work may come under strict scrutiny Audit AND there would be consequences for not complying, bad faith, cutting corners, etc. PUBLIC consequences, even if every detail is private / secret.
ALL of these requirements mirror what is available to Criminal Defendants normally under Due Process and are denied FISA Targets – it would be nothing more than that missing piece of the ‘Rights’ puzzle and help ensure Constitutional compliance across-the-board.
Because, after all, everyone knows or suspects that these Gov’t Agencies have definitely ‘Cut Corners’ and denied Due Process and Constitutional Rights of FISA Targets at one time or another, especially because to do so would be SO EASY and remain secret!
Chilling, maybe even bloodcurdling, scenario. But the reporting is meticulous (as usual) by Glen Greenwald.
Siding with imperialists on who is an “enemy.”
You don’t respect the Constitution of the United States. You’ve insulted it even on this page. People have given their lives to defend it, as a matter of principle – which you (and the establishment, too, interestingly enough) apparently think is something to LOL about.
People have “lost their lives” defending the interests of capitalism, not for anything “Constitutional.” Sorry.
Are you saying you agree with what Greenback$ said here? That
you think it’s fine for the government to determine who should and should
not be spied on? And if that’s the case, doesn’t that negate what he wrote in this
article?
You’re not sorry. You have evidenced a hideous disrespect for the Constitution, which personally makes me suspicious of you, FWIW. You might want to consider your responses more carefully, unless of course you are an operative hired precisely to incite where possible. The government has evidently overreached its bounds (Constitutional bounds, as a matter of fact), and needs to be reined in to obey the (Constitutional) laws that allow targeted surveillance only when evidence of suspicious behavior warrants the same. I certainly agree with Greenwald that something is seriously out of order here, as this is mere stupid-police-level profiling on a different scale. As far as potentially seditious behavior goes, I have more concern with your hysterical disrespect for the Constitution and your repetitive anger problems as expressed here than with the individuals named above.
LOL.
This is some damn fine analysis and reporting.
There are still a lot of questions (FISA warrants used in all instances?) and blanks that need filling in (NSA justification for the surveillance!?) but clearly the spotlight is right on the NSA which has some serious explaining to do.
Like others, I fear that due to the names of these people, this story could fizzle out. That would be real shame. For the NSA to be held accountable and be pressured into providing more information, typical Americans, the media, congress, etc., must remain interested.
Video of Greenwald appearing today on Jack Tapper’s show along with Faisal Gill and Asim Ghafoor.
http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2014/07/09/why-did-the-nsa-spy-on-muslim-americans/
Did he explain why he held onto these names for over a year?
Thanks for the link. Tapper comes across as being either obtuse or an outright apologist for this crap. Every single comment deflects, sometimes tortuously, the larger implications to arrive at some feeble rationale for this. If we can’t even get evenhanded coverage, how are the dangers of this program ever going to be broadcast? Kudos to Glenn and these men for slugging away…
“I just don’t know why,” says Gill, whose AOL and Yahoo! email accounts were monitored while he was a Republican candidate for the Virginia House of Delegates. “I’ve done everything in my life to be patriotic. I served in the Navy, served in the government, was active in my community—I’ve done everything that a good citizen, in my opinion, should do.”
What you FAILED to do is speak loudly and openly against Government spying on citizens while you were busy politicking…. You thought that spying was only for “The other people….” and you would be exempt. Your silence helped awaken this Dragon. (As did the silence of the citizens of this entire country!) And now you are surprised that it is breathing down your neck!?!?!
I have been and still today being surveilled by the FBI and NSA for legitimately, justifiably for filing police misconduct complaints which are protected by the First Amendment. One of the chief police officers labelled me as a “trouble-maker” and contacted his FBI friend who logged fictitious Suspicious Activity Reports which were then used as part of an FISA intelligence warrant request which eventually labeled me and my entire family as domestic terrorist “targets”. Mr. Greenwald your book “No Where To Hide” was stolen from my hotel room in Las Vegas and my Apple Mac Pro $2500 laptop smashed on the hotel room floor. The NSA and FBI does not wantthe public reading your book. At the bookstore, I found it hidden at the very bottom shelf.
So what? Big deal.
And, a sidebar, from the Ministry of Lame Excuses, this:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/09/files-uk-role-cia-rendition-destroyed-diego-garcia-water-damage
A “sidebar” because this is where, if you’re accused as a “Mohammed Raghead,” you might end up.
Why don’t they just say they destroyed them? It’s not like there’ll be any consequences.
If they are found to have perverted justice, the jury is permitted to presume the content was supportive of the prosecution’s position. That’s the UK. Here, crooks go out of their way to eliminate papers and people who might have had a crosswise word to say. No price to pay here (unless they get caught), but there, they can get convicted on the absence of malice. That’s why they continue to lie.
Oh, you mean that even with such a law in force, no one will face justice. Maybe a few unlucky Coulsons or two, but I get you.
…you would be able to bridge the Atlantic with the resultant irony. “Perverted justice” indeed. I think we’ve long since gone past the point of “perverted.”
No one will be prosecuted, if so they won’t be convicted, and if they are they’ll be quickly released. Things happen in war, you know.
You know what’d make a great movie plot? The Arab Spring being a CIA operation to destroy evidence of their use of Egyptian and Libyan prisons as rendition sites. (Syria too!) Can’t interrogate Gaddafi about his role if he’s dead! And documents are often “accidentally destroyed” in the midst of revolutions…
I did a spit take reading that rerun. Didn’t the News of the World’s Scot editor, BOB BIRD, tell a court that NewsUK email regarding a libel case against a socialist Scot MP (and all that nasty hacking) was lost on a slow boat to Mumbai?
Then it turned up after being retrieved by a firm hired to pull the wool out of their eyes. At least he’s being prosecuted for that “unintentional error.”
Amazing what kind of BS gets spread when the speakers presume to have full coverage as special clients of the surveillance state and a weak kneed press..
And I saw nothing about that today in the news.Funny how they bury their boners.
I would feel a lot better to know that this is over. Greenwald does not have exclusive access to Snowden documents. So I worry. Do we need to be prepared to explain to friends why our names and email address are in NSA documents? The risk seems remote. WP wrote the spreadsheet is a small sample. I hope so. Our GnuPG public key is available for anonymity, if needed.
This is the right thing for us to do. The Muslim community worldwide is of great concern.
Some of these folks may very well be worth watching. What bothers me much more than these five is the collection of all this data on John Q. Public which is made up of people completely uninvolved in the political world of Islam.
We are the target of militant Islam and it is only prudent to watch both those who live here and those who don’t if there is a sincere belief that information that would help avoid another disaster could be gleaned. However, if the find dry holes about anyone, they should close them and trash all of the worthless data they seem so attached to.
There was no militant Islam(since 1100?ad)until we attacked Muslims post WW2 by destroying their democracy and helping insert the gilded splinter in the region.i think you should go puke also,as it might remove the poisons within.
I haven’t read all the cases. I stopped with Mr. Gill’s account. The question I ask is why wouldn’t the US government want to keep tabs on someone that formerly had a TS clearance, who then partners with someone suspected of ties, no matter the degree, to terrorism? The US government needs a reason to intercept private communication – I’d bet it has a valid reason in these instances. The government doesn’t waste valuable time or resources doing such things without reason.
Excellent presentation of a very important investigation. These examples speak volumes about the invasive and damaging spying tactics of the U.S. and highlight the extreme lack of clarity and failure of the U.S. to take responsibility for their actions.
LOL.
Find a home in the anti-gravity realm PutShit!
Take those stars into oblivion.
Reduced to copying and pasting tweets? (Your own, for all we know.) It’s just sad. What a terrible thing, to waste one’s mind.
The Guardian should do the right thing and make this list public. The people have a right to know if their name and email address are on this list. Please do the right thing – Please make the list PUBLIC.
And let’s not forget that there are others who chose not to have their names revealed. How many, I wonder?
That’s for Glenn to know, the rest of us needn’t be bothered with it. He’ll decide what we need to know.
ut were these the only religio-ethnicities who were approachable to cite as examples?
It would appear purely coincidental that, again, Glenn presents surveillance-subject case studies that are usually Muslim community specific. Can anyone remember when, even at the Guardian, these weren’t–like the NYPD and nearby NJ pieces–strictly about that community?
What did you expect;AIPAC?The ones that actually should be?
Surely people aren’t naive enough to think that there are people who are NOT spied upon?
Whatever happened to the separate agency created by Dick Cheney?
Considering the timing of these endings, did that mean O’s DoJ dropped the cases as they learned of them? Or did they simply find a new way to justify them by communication failure. How common is that? Seems like standard operating procedure at the smart pipes these days.
Glad to see this article up at The Intercept.
Excellent.
More on this matter at: http://rt.com/usa/171628-greenwald-nsa-muslims-more/
Despite the many comments on this article from those intent upon defamation of editors and staff of The Intercept; the information that you are disseminating matters to many.
Thank you.
NO muslim or islam in America—-no mosques, no ragheads, no transgender prophets….burn copies of the kouran whenever possible with a group of friends…..
Nothing a 20 pack of Scott toilet paper can’t absorb. Clean up on aisle 8!!!
I saw a cute couple at WalMart where many of our large population of refugees shop behind me in line and guessed by the beautiful scarf the wife had on they were Muslim. Then to my horror I see a tabloid saying Obama is a Muslim. They saw my angered expression and I feared they mistook my offense. So I pointed at the 20 pack of TP rolling down the belt and the tabloid at the same time and we all had a big laugh. No need to say “There’s nothing WRONG with being Muslim.” It’s all good.
Any group or individual who preaches killing, violence and mass destruction as a method of solving thier problems, or achieving their objectives needs to be monitored.
Who is considered ostensible ally by the US?
Another cold war within the new cold war between “allies”
In a recent article by Washington Post, a new scandal is revealed concerning NSA interceptions. Among various information, there are also claims about a secret overseas nuclear project and an ostensible ally
http://goo.gl/p69G0B
Doesn’t matter who they are. Everyone should be subject to scrutiny. Remember your history. Remember all those non-Muslims throughout history, who everyone thought were loyal Americans. How are these people any different?
This looks like Cointelpro disinformation. The majority of NSA spying is on white American citizens. Greenwald is releasing these 5 muslim identities to make the rednecks think the NSA is only spying on Muslims born in other countries. This indicates that Greenwald is most likely controlled opposition. The sheer volume of documentation from Snowden that greenwald is not releasing for public scrutiny is another indicator that Greenwald is in fact a disnfo agent posing as an activist.
There has to be an element of trolling for blackmail material in this kind of surveillance. There is basically no reasonable explanation for why any of these guys would even be interesting from a law enforcement perspective; they are entirely political ‘enemies’ of the establishment in Washington (and that only very tenuously in several cases-Gill??!?).
Is it possible that the government spied on Faisal Gill because they thought he was Asim Ghafoor, and on Asim Ghafoor because they thought he was Faisal Gill? They do look similar, no?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/08/darpa-social-networks-research-twitter-influence-studies
Get the picture of facebook’s CEO’s mindstate, “Who cares?” She and Hillary should do a tour on how to get ahead.
Those who are claiming the lack of significance of this story should go here and tell the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the Department of Justice how unnecessary their just-released “official statement” regarding this reporting is:
http://icontherecord.tumblr.com/post/91248854753/joint-statement-by-the-office-of-the-director-of
Why are we supposed to care about what the Office of the National Blah Blah and the DOJ says? So one faction of the bourgeoisie (DOJ, NSA) gets its thong in a bunch about what another faction of the bourgeoisie (media) is reporting. And make no mistake Greenback$ is a bourgeois “reporter” doing the bidding of the capital class.
Capitalists are hilarious. Since you don’t really want any substantive changes, like sweeping away the capitalist system completely, you opt for playing bourgeois factions off each other as if that is something we should take seriously. Do you guys even hear yourselves.
I’m beginning to wonder if this piece was suppressed until after Omidyar’s favorable legislation got passed since the June 25 summit on neoliberal investment.
What is really funny is capitalists who have a web site with a comments section that has no ads. What’s up with that? Surely a capitalist would capitalize on such a twit as yourself viewing the comments section to target you with ads for twits? Something fishy going on here.
A billionnaire dumping 250M $ into his website doesn’t need ads. I’m sure Omidyar’s wishes in how the website is steered are taken into consideration. Trust me, he’s not doing this out of the goodness of his heart for the little people. He fucked over a lot of people and stepped on a lot of toes and cut deals with a lot of politicians to get where he is and there’s no reason to believe he suddenly turned into a leftist benevolent web owner. Besides which, the hired help subconsciously “please” Daddy Omidyar by not overtly criticizing his projects.
Another evidence-free bunch of assertions pulled out your ass. You should be on CNN. Are you getting paid to spout this never-ending flood of bullshit? Are you a main stream journalist or author who was made to feel insecure by Glenn Greenwald? Where did you learn to imitate what John Birchers, and witch hunters of the ’50s think a lefty sounds like? And last but not least…. do you get paid for using certain keywords?
It’s interesting how this power-crazed billionaire hasn’t gotten around to having your ass perma-banned from his tightly-controlled propaganda site. You’d think he’d be tired of your schtick by now. Or maybe you’re just serving his secret goals by being such an annoying, arrogant jackass; you cause people to naturally tend to want to support whatever it is you’re incoherently raving against.
Either way, you’re tiresome and you’re not adding anything useful to this discussion.
And… are you a mimicry of a parody of yourself? You know what they say: “mimicry is the assholery of douchbagginess” I think this fits you rather well.
Rob, that 99% is spot on and literal. At least 2/3 of the posted comments on every thread at TI are generated, by name, by the drool-bot, and that doesn’t include the numerous sock-puppets. We’re either dealing with a precocious nine-year-old who just “learned” the words “imperialist” and “apologist” (but knows the meaning of neither) and thinks everyone in the world is one –every post here and at the Guardian is the same:” blah blah blah …you’re an IMPERIALIST! blah blah blah APOLOGIST FOR GOVERNMENT! blah blah blah….Imperialist!” — no matter the subject under discussion and to posters who run the political gamut– including stated socialists and communists– or to those who are openly critical of imperialism. or we’re dealing with someone off their meds. Or both.
I’ve been tempted to cut and paste and send a script to SNL called “Imperialist Man.” The material writes itself. Like Massive Head Wound Harry, he/she could spill their same sorry slop on every skit.
Has any one at TI offered you a napkin yet to wipe the spittle-flecked invective off your chin?
If not, how sad. Least they could do for someone so monumentally non-productive, short of the sheer volume of time spent here casting shade equivalent to that found at high noon near the equator on a cloudless day.
I’m not spittling, you’re the one getting your panties twisted because some of us aren’t going along with BLOCKBUSTER!! BREAKING NEWS!! GREENBACK$ TO THE RESCUE!!! Why is that? Why are you invested in everybody believing what you believe about it? There’s just no possibility to you that there are other interpretations of the whys and hows and whats of this presentation.
It’s not about spittle. It’s about you coming off as authoritarian because the presentation of different viewpoints threatens the shit out of you.
99% of “us” is YOU. We get it, you don’t like Greenwald. Please find something else to rant about.
A very good question to ask yourself. You seem very put out that we don’t agree with your opinion, as you go out of your way to go on and on about it. If we’re such lost causes, why do you keep beating your head against the wall? Do you just get off on insulting us? This is fun for you?
I don’t find anyone who engages in antics without offering factual information threatening in the least.
If/when you back up your hockers with facts/links/etc then they’ll be considered. I don’t reward adolescent dick-waving and wish others didn’t either. Buh-bye.
Whoa,are you saying the MSM has any viable things to say?This site is shedding light on the hidden crimes(by MSM)of our government.(not all,of course)The whole MSM from CNN to Fox to MSNBC speak the foreign language of their owners,hopefully its not the language of Omidyar.
PutShitIntoIt:
Why should anyone care about your endless stream of comments on Intercept publications when you are so obviously a disinformation and defamation bot?
You should be completely banned from posting here.
Come on Intercept IT….Throw this trash out.
Free speech for all,even the incorrect and wrongheaded.
Pedinska: This:
is so tone deaf and surreal it reads as a spoof of a satire. Did they defrost Disney’s head and have it mouth a recorded message from another decade (which would have been wrong then, too)? “Onion” worthy.
The jokes are really falling flat, maybe time for intermission?
Why this shit continues to shock you or make you shake your head is the question you should be asking.
Nobody cares about your opinion on what is funny. And nobody is “shocked” by it. We are, however, disappointed to have more confirmation of what we long suspected.
What you long suspected? In other words, the same story rehashed yet another way? Why can’t the people who slobber all over Greenback$ admit that he’s recycling the same shit over and over.
But then your screen name says it all. Liberal Rob aka CapitalistApologistRob aka Liberal Imperialist Rob. How many ways can you say Apologist for Capital.
It’s not rehashing, it’s documentation. God you’re tedious.
If this is Greenback$ “finale,” the “fireworks display,” color me underwhelmed. But hey good “documentation.”
American Exceptionalism, lol. This PR is just sad. They sound tired. Good.
Yeah ….. I’m not really seeing too much to get worked up about here.
Some good tweeting going on around this underwhelming article.
I learned the hard way that America’s secret political police will target anyone, and I mean anyone. They do it just because they can, in some cases. It’s wicked and vicious… and must be stopped.
I don’t disagree with you at all but the choice of these five men in particular really almost amounts to supporting the NSA’s and the FBI’s point of view. It would be much more valuable to see the information pertaining to five ordinary citizens who are absolutely squeaky clean. It;s obvious that ISIS does have plants in many nations and they are dangerous as hell and do need investigating.
How ‘s the bottom, foggy?
You seriously presume squeaky cleans are central studies of illegal operations? Only when TESTING, 123…
As there’s this little situation of Muslim terrorism around world, the majority of Americans don’t fret over “Muslim-Americans” are being spied on. Be more concerned with protecting and maintaining America and less about psuedo-ideals of multiculturalism.
Same as it ever was. Here’s how the FBI did the same thing to Edward Said: http://www.counterpunch.org/2006/01/13/how-the-fbi-spied-on-edward-said/
“… The NSA issued a statement that reads in part: “No U.S. person can be the subject of FISA surveillance based solely on First Amendment activities, such as staging public rallies, organizing campaigns, writing critical essays, or expressing personal beliefs.” … We all know this statement is a lie based on what they did to the Occupy Wall Street participants along with IRS targeting …not to mention the DHS newest version of how to define a “terrorist” or “extremist” which now includes anyone who considers themselves a “rugged individualist”.
it seems to be forgotten that the muslim brotherhood has fronted dozens of organizations in the US for the sole purpose of subverting the american way of life and installing the sharia law as law of the land. This was demonstrated for example with the seized documents found in the basement of the suspects in the 2008 Holyland Terror Funding Trial.
http://www.clarionproject.org/Muslim_Brotherhood_Explanatory_Memorandum
this is also clearly stated in the OIC (organization for islamic cooperation) mission statement that ALL muslim countries in the world including the palestinian authority have signed on and agree with.
Infiltrating and manipulating the west has always been the goal and it is clearly stated…by them.
Remember that when they scream “human rights” they mean human rights under the sharia.
Watching the lectures of Stephen Coughlin would be a great start for anyone interested in the subject.
http://counterjihadreport.com/tag/stephen-coughlin/
Agree with him or not, he is an expert on the subject and has been accurate on every prediction and interpretation of the “enemies” plan.
The racializing of the islamic political goal is one of the steps and just about everyone is falling for it.
Islam is a political system before it is a religion and this political system, like naziism, is dangerous and doesn’t allow for anyones freedom….that is unless you are on their side.
Time to call a spade a spade and eradicate this problem on all fronts before we or our children are all fighting for our lives.
Yawn!!!!!!!!!! This doesnt matter to me…………….unless my name is on that damn list!! Release the list!! This of course, is the attitude of all distracted Americans. If it doesnt happen to them personally, no one gives a shizz. And to all of you who think they deserved it because of their skin color, heritage, religious belief, or suspect connections…Let me know how it feels when you find out you’ve been hacked and under surveillance. Its coming to a town near you as soon as the UTAH data center becomes operational.
Thank you for helping to expose corrupt, intrusive surveillance and slander / discrediting campaigns against innocent, sane, human beings. It would be helpful if someone had the courage to further expose Intel Stalking (colloquially being called gang stalking ) regarding the corruption, false labeling, hyper scrutiny, blacklisting and community monitoring of literally thousands of people…esp the abusive use of punitive psychiatric labels against whistleblowers, journalists and others (i.e. labels such as “delusional, paranoid schizophrenic, conspiracy theorist” labels placed upon those who try and speak out about corruption).
Even “legal permission” would make it so fundamentally wrong that it flies in the face of everything we purport (pretend) to believe in. Quite simply, we are watching an empire implode. That it’s slow, often invisible, and doesn’t –yet–impact the majority, makes it no less a tragedy.
Screw Godwin’s law. What use history if we refuse to learn from it? We are playing out the same old, tattered, spattered, exhausted playbook that always leads to horrific ends. We should all be outraged on behalf of this gross abuse of our fellow humans. Their religion and country of origin are inconsequential. The world is now more not less divided thanks to this obsessive WOT, an acronym that sounds like the mindless bleat of imperial sheep that it is.
I’ve mentioned before an Iranian-American friend who I’ve urged to log on, but she told me, years ago, what this article proves…that the risks to Muslim American citizens are too great. As she noted, as a non-practicing Muslim who considers religion on the very bottom of the list of things that describe her, and as someone who fled Iran –leaving, among many other things a beloved husband who couldn’t bring himself to leave his country of birth–to raise their daughter with the greater freedoms she thought America offered, the irony couldn’t be more bitter. She and her fellow Cleveland-area Muslims found this out the hard way when they learned that virtually everyone they knew–including her boss, a third-generation American– had been investigated in the aftermath of the Fort Hood incident. Never mind that none of them have ever committed a crime, that they live hundreds of miles and states away from the site, and have contributed richly to their community…simply bearing “Muslim sounding” names was enough to deem them potential criminals.
I can’t even describe the impotent rage I felt when she explained why she –a renowned architect–and her friends no longer “feel safe expressing anything, especially political ideas.” Suffice it to say it was the last straw for me, and the day I really began to think we’re doomed. I’m sorry if that sounds melodramatic, but I honestly can no longer see a way out of this mess. I know, personally, too many good people who have been caught up in this absurdity, and we don’t deserve the patience and goodwill they continue to express in the face of these abuses. Unless people start to protest in visible and real ways this is going to get worse, much worse, before it gets better.
What I think we’re seeing is the pile of sawdust next to a hole in the edifice of democracy that betrays the termites boring within. They’ve been chewing away unobtrusively for decades, and the damage goes deeper than anyone can see from the outside.
Edward Snowden is the Orkin Man who has started poking around, revealing the true extent of the damage.
Bush got “legal permission” for torture. Obama got it for killing American citizens extra-judicially. What does it mean anymore? They make it up as they go along.
@liberalrob: Bush got “legal permission” for torture. Obama got it for killing American citizens extra-judicially. What does it mean anymore? They make it up as they go along.
Exactly. The word is meaningless. We’d do better to get back to a basic sense of “right” vs “wrong.” This is wrong on every front.
Think you meant @larry, there. I agree, though.
I did, but too hard to fix things here. Agree with both of you…
Yes it does sound melodramatic. Since your solution as a liberal imperialist is always pacifist, it’s also useless. So there’s that.
When’s the last time you poked porky in the eye? I was escorted by same claiming 99 to be my name and they wheeled along beside us with a local union wink. Oink.
They don’t right the law, they aren’t aloud to. But they can think and wink at the same time. When I was being pushed to protest police suppression, I told the pitchforker to back off our brethren who’s union will be barking about the cutbacks long before the last shoe drops. Of course, we got those crazy coppers, too. What’s with AZ coppers thinking women are cowpies for tossing around like shite?
Protests work so well, don’t they?
You have a “last straw” moment every time you post, buried in your 3,000 word essays about virtually nothing. You might be one of the more obvious bourgeois liberals in the Glennbot club.
Ask the Romanovs or the Bourbons. Or the Pahlavis.
You have no idea what “bourgeois” means, you just think it looks fancy and makes your insult more witty. It doesn’t. Here’s a free tip: the more you use the same insult, the less effect it has. Show some variety.
Minion, comprehensive government–which is, by definition, socially responsible–needs more money to stay solvent. Won’t you please continue to argue for that?
‘Quite simply, we are watching an empire implode.’
Thats it in a nutshell…except for a couple of things…
1) Mass protest is a must, because every iniquity visited upon another human being (regardless of ethnicity, religion etc) should be treated as an iniquity visited upon one’s self..because No Man is an island.
2) Every iniquity visited upon someone else should result in an accounting by the perpetrator..the abuses come so thick and so fast and for so long that I really hope that we have thousands of Madame’s Defarge around.
Mere protest will not be sufficient – unless it is sustained to some reasonable, accountable conclusion.
You do not need to try to describe the impotent rage you felt, I share it and have experienced it since George Bush and his cronies (including politicians in his ‘coalition of the willing’) began their assault on the rest of the world. What is, for me, beyond belief, is the sheer lack of accountability. The double-blow (to the rest of the world) is that the change in the political stripe of the US administration led to no discernable change in behaviour.
What do you mean by “we”?
Whoever runs things, it isn’t ordinary people — citizens — like those of us posting here.
Nor is the people supposedly in power through elections.
The who of it has yet to be identified — although if you follow the money .. .here for instance and also here,</a? you can get a good idea of who I think runs things in the US. Not the individuals, but the institution itself.
But we — citizens — need not wonder who manages and orders the NSA and its contractors.
The Pentagon.
The same entity emptying the American treasury while developing super weapons, controlling the nukes, waging perpetual wars, organizing and distributing political propaganda, killing people across the world with drones, contractors, and military alliances, training officers of foreign dictatorships, and remaining beyond the reach of public oversight through classification and intimidation or co-option of plainly powerless politicians like Congress, Bush and Obama.
“We” still means something even in this crazy mixed-up world. If we don’t like what our government is doing we’re beholden to try harder to hold it accountable. Tyrants don’t rise up in a vacuum. A public that is too lazy, indifferent, or numb to what is happening is fundamentally part of the problem. At this point, as the other poster noted, mass protests are needed. Do we think it’s going to get better further down this road? There’s not a single sign to suggest that’s the case. The full brunt of my fury is for the depraved criminals running the show, but there’s plenty of blame to go around, and the public has to start accepting that we have a role to play in this.
Come on Intercept…when are we going to get to the ordinary, non-muslim citizen that’s being targeted. It would be good if you could start with the regular, law abiding, non-muslim citizens in the UK as over this end of the world it’s as if Snowden’s a figment of our imagination. Don’t you think it’s about time you demonstrated the draconian treatment of ordinary people that have the misfortune, through no fault of their own, to be dragged into the psychopathic torture practices of the surveillance services on both sides of the pond? Also any info on the child abuse scandal that’s brewing against the BBC, Westminster, House of Lords and Justice Department to name but a few, would be good. These jokers want to spend millions, more importantly years, on an Inquiry that is destined to cherry pick a few at the end of the day. Personally…I don’t see the point in spending the time and money investigating when all the sordid details are already part of GCHQ’s and probably NSA’s databases.
I would like to take part in comments, but I have strain to read them.
By reading the comments of others,
I learn things.
More digital ink, please, as much as was in the article.
I spent at least 16 hours/day, on the internet and my eyes are tired.
I don’t enjoy complaining, but this ‘half-ink digital comments’,
as been going on since—February?
That’s 6 months, and nothing has changed.
Hold down the control key and do a mouse scroll up to make the font larger.
I remember you, the big pictures were always clouding your perceptions. So, now we got that straight, when will you learn to maximize your image opportunities in your device?
Don’t tell me you read on a phone or this is a phony device. Enlarge, silly.
“More digital ink, please, as much as was in the article. I spent at least 16 hours/day, on the internet and my eyes are tired.”
You can select the comments’ text (Ctrl-A selects all), then paste the text into WordPad (on a PC), then select all and increase the font size and make the text bold.
There’s certainly something equivalent on Mac and Linux systems.
Where is the complete list?
You followers of Muhammad Rasulullah are a bunch of illiterate folks encouraged by Europe and West to disgrace Muhammad Rasulullah in your mosques. The insincerity and devilish attitude of West and Europe is in their refusal to use their authority in seeing that you obey and respect Muhammad Rasulullah during your obligatory prayers. I have many a times advised West and Europe to conduct a surveillance on your behaviour and attitude during your obligatory prayers and call you back to the Sunna. But because the West and Europe know that a Muslim cannot only prosper succeed flourish and overcome his enemies both internally and externally by observing his prayers according to the Sunna/practice of the holy apostle they will never do that. You do not know and you never like to know. You respect your clerics and scholars more than the holy apostle and his companions.
If you are in doubt on my allegation the proof is in ISBN 9781468070446. I am challenging President Barack Hussein Obama to honor his Muslim parents by proving the illiteracy and deviation of the followers of Muhammad by making a video of how they pray and how that is described in ISBN 9781468070446. It is authority that removes chaos turmoil and indecencies if the holy Qur’an failed to do so. It is only the West and Europe with that authority and not any Muslim country.
“NSA Surveillance of Muslim Leader Fits Same Pattern as FBI Spying on MLK, Say Civil Rights Attorneys”
http://ccrjustice.org/newsroom/press-releases/nsa-surveillance-of-muslim-leader-fits-same-pattern-fbi-spying-mlk,-say-civil-rights-attorneys
And the Panthers. And Earth First! And pro-Palestinian activists. And anti-WTO activists.
Thanks, Ben Franklin.
“Nihad Awad, Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) Executive Director Vincent Warren issued the following statement: ”
“The NSA’s surveillance of Nihad Awad and CAIR fits the same pattern as the FBI surveillance of Martin Luther King, Jr., Ella Baker, Jesse Jackson, Malcolm X, and other leaders of the Civil Rights Movement. Then it was based on manufactured suspicions of associations with the Communist Party. Now it is seemingly based on unproven claims of tangential associations with Hamas. The government is targeting an organization for its lawful political activity and conflating peaceful support for Palestinians and equal treatment for Muslims in the U.S. with suspicious activity. The NAACP had to go all the way to the Supreme Court to vindicate the First Amendment right to association, which is what protects organizations participating in civic and political activity from government intimidation or interference. Every civic group in this country has the right to peacefully advocate for social justice at home and abroad without fear of government surveillance, intimidation, and harassment. The Church Committee exposed the extent of the infiltration of Civil Rights groups and spying on their members. It is time for a new Church Committee to look into today’s abuses.”
It’s well past time, but there’s no time like the present.
Correction:
“Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) Executive Director Vincent Warren issued the following statement: ” (statement above)
And the following bears restating:
“It is time for a new Church Committee to look into today’s abuses.”
No, it’s really not “time” for that. More capitalist reforms that don’t work because they are not meant to work in the first place.
“The Program” is out of control, racist, staffed with incompetents, illegal and fails to demonstrate a track record of stopping major terrorist attacks. It’s hardly worth the fiscal costs to operate or the costs to civil liberties.
Richard Clarke in 2011:
“You can look, if you’re objective, at all of this money and all of this effort and say, “What would have happened if we hadn’t done that?” And in almost every case, nothing would have happened. It’s true that there hasn’t been another attack. It’s not true that all of this expenditure and all these people have stopped it.”
Thomas Kean in 2011 on Frontline pointing out that the shoe bomber and the Time Square bomber were caught by average citizens and not by a mass surveillance network.:
“Both those cases, it was not the intelligence agencies, it was private citizens. On the plane, it was a private citizen who jumped the guy. Times Square, it was a vendor saying, “Something’s wrong there,” [and] letting the law enforcement authorities know it.”
When NSA lobbies to keep “The Program” what they really want is the continued ability to target American’s for other reasons, like squashing protest and dissent. That is the sonly reason they would want to keep it if it is otherwise useless as an instrument to prevent terrorism.
Well worth repeating, STR; well done.
Anyone who isn’t imagining the worst right now will be dissappointed.
It is one of the functions of Big Government, which knows best–its charges don’t get to set nanny house-rules.
Leftists may squeal at their minders, strain against their safety net, but in the end Big Gov’t knows what’s best for progressives. Imagine how they’d wail if all their wants weren’t met.
Debbie, for gods sake, these programs were started under Bush, a conservative, and continued under Obama, a centrist at best. I strongly encourage you to improve your political knowledge, since it is clearly lacking at present. In the mean time, please do not vote.
Interesting Debbie, considering this was catapulted into our lives first by “W” and his grandpa Dick Cheney–and they went on to build the biggest most wasteful government program in history, DHS–a completely useless agency of government. An MIT grad once told me you could fix the communication problems between the agencies with 20 programmers in the basement of the White House. Obama carried on “the program,” because he in many cases is more conservative than “W.” And he has shamelessly kissed the ring of the terrorism industrial complex. I stopped thinking of Obama as a liberal and Bush as a conservative a long time ago.
You need to stop overdosing on the cable news channels if you think there’s a difference between the two political parties.
You’re ignoring that the Bush family–as well as the Cheney family–is notoriously socially left wing.
Neo-con is literally, ‘new-,’ ‘acceptable-,’ ‘improved-‘ “con,” and the movement literally–not figuratively–brought Bolshevism from the Russian Revolution through Mexico City by way of Irving Kristol.
So it’s telling that your first response to seeing “Big Government” is to invoke two neocons (leftist Republicans) as a poorly considered riposte. They even worked hand in glove with Lieberman to build DHS. After all, “homeland” is Bolshevik nomenclature, Small Town Reporter.
>bush family
>left wing
This is why nobody takes your opinions seriously. How much of a fascist do you have to be to consider the Bush family left wing?
The Bush and the Cheney family are left wing…I just nearly spit out my wine doubled over laughing. Whatever drugs you’re on, they must be excellent or your paycheck is off the charts. Cheney, Darth Cheney the architect of this entire mess in the middle east, who makes Caligula look comparatively benign. Cheney, experimental weapons Cheney, invade Iraq and give the Hedge funds heavily invested in defense a personal visit from the Bush administration and a start date (originally January 17th, moved to March) for the upcoming war in December 2002. Hell I had the start date of the Iraq War before Colin Powell did, all you had to do was chat up some hedge fund guys. Yeah, Cheney is left wing….like Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler!
There’s so much wrong with this article that I’ll limit my comments to the FISC and FISA for brevity. The judges that sit on the FISC are U.S. district court judges–the very same judges who try cases in federal court every day. They just happen conduct hearings in a secure facility. The legal standard for the approval of FISA warrants is probable cause–the same standard in criminal matters. One of the major criticisms of the FISC is its lack of opposing counsel or legal representation for the targets of FISA warrants. However, when federal judges sign warrants in criminal matters–whether it’s a search warrant or a wiretap–there’s no opposing counsel present for the target of the search to argue their side. It’s absolutely the same standard before the same judges for the same types of legal process. In terms of these particular gentlemen, any FISA warrant was prepared, sworn to by a federal officer, and presented to the court. A federal judge (again, the same ones who hear criminal cases every day) then determined whether there was probable cause for the warrant. I frankly don’t care what these guys claim. If they were the target of a FISA warrant, a court found there was probable cause they were involved in terrorist actiivities of some type.
Yes.
Right on the money.
Do they have to be so subtle about it? Their ledes are misleading these days. If Hillary called for Snowden to have a right to self defense, I didn’t read it. She said as far as she can tell he already has one and wants him to come home and use it. That’s some serious misleding.
Please tell me this was not your first write up on Americans being spied on and that your original un-USG-redacted version contain none middle eastern ethnic targets….
The Christains and the Muslins have been fighting each other since the 12/13th century. What makes it any different now?. To me, they have no business in America. They will wait YEARS to take over and they will as long as they are permitted to exist in the US. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for America to be all things for all people. We HAVE to stand up for something….. Just my opinion, but firm. In 50 years or less the US will be much like Iraq is now. Being split apart by relligious convicions. The Mulins DO NOT ‘like’ Christains, PERIOD. There is an old saying something like his: You can stop it now or hope to stop it later!
Guardian has the story, but the focus seems to be on the racial epithets, not the overall issue.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/09/white-house-nsa-racial-slurs-training-material
The problem is the vehicle — not the hood ornament.
Why did the Guardian paper over Hillary lying to us about Snowden’s right to self defense? They implied she’s calling for him to enjoy that right, but what she really said is she has no way of knowing if he’s indicted under the Espionage Act which denyies one a defense as those are sealed, but sure, come on home and mount a defense. She calls herself a lawyer. Very out of practice. She’s willfully duplicitous, just like she’ll be tomorrow.
The article made that point, but the lede lead folks to think she’s leading for a right to a public interest defense. So it’s wrong twice. She’s taking cover under her ignorance and advising someone to let that be their guide.
But the hood ornament is sexier!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_of_Ecstasy
coram
>A report by ABC News citing an anonymous former senior US official speculated that the five activists and attorneys may not have been surveillance targets themselves, but might instead have been caught in a data-collection net aimed elsewhere.
Well, exactly. So they feel free to vacuum up attorney-client communications because the attorneys weren’t the targets. Attorneys, presumably, who might have been litigating against the USG at some point, and certainly the ODOJ lawyers would have been interested at looking at it before going to court.
But…but…the Minimization Procedures!
And of course it’s just unthinkable that NSA would allow anyone to benefit from the definitely-not-“collected”-but-nevertheless-recorded information. I mean, only NSA personnel are allowed to look at it. It’s impossible that an NSA person might pull up some info on their screen and then run out to Starbucks for 15 minutes while a DOJ lawyer just happened to be visiting, or something like that. That kind of thing only happens in the movies.
All moslems should be watched. All people that love America should report any strange behavior of these animals. They kill anyone that has a different belief. They should be stopped in Iraq, Syria and everywhere. We should do to them what they do to others.
So with this disclosure and it’s evidence, the stage is apparently set for legal action against the agencies involved. Much more difficult for the Govt. to argue now that people on the list have no standing. But my question is whether any of the individuals identifiable on the spreadsheet are willing to take that action.
LOL
Ethnic profiling and surveillance of ALL Muslim-Americans is justified.
So called “Moderate Muslims” do not engage in overt acts of terror, but support those that do. I draw no distinction between them.
The west should NOT waste time, effort and money trying to sort them out.
Islam is a terrorist ideology NOT a religion and must not be allowed to take root in the west …PERIOD.
All Muslims must be deported from the west at once! History proves time and again that they do not play nice with others
When someone is at war with you and you do not defend against it, you lose.
Dude we had to try the Irish in TUCSON just to get that unbiasedarms traffickying thing over with. Those “terrorists” walked, but we pretend we can’t try Muslims in real courts. Can’t or WON’T? If the Irish can walk, why not the Muslims?
You are deep in the koolaid stream. What color is it?
dude chill out. go to the middle east if you want to fight, you keyboard warrior.
There is a problem with that, the hindrance of 1st Amendment language about free exercise religion and a ban on official religious “establishments”, something that traces back to the Republic’s founding. You could get rid of it now, possibly, but that would be like burning down the building to evict the tenants of one apartment.
He doesn’t care. Anyone not of his tribe has no rights and is to be subjugated to his will or exterminated. No exceptions.
My name is Ali. I am brown skinned; I am Arab and I am atheist. Should I be ethnically and racially profiled against? What you fail to see is that this will go beyond Islam and terrorism. Your government has a precedent and will surveil you too sooner or later whenever they have a pretext. The majority of serial killers in America are white christians, should all white Christians be spied upon?
Yah, and all those pesky native americans where all terrorists too, basically everyone in the entire western hemisphere were all terrorists, now they all have r and q ydna.
All the blacks where all terrorists too right charlieseattle, sure took care of those terrorsts right? 500 years we jailed and raped those terrorists to pieces.
All the people in the entire continent of Australia were all terrorists too, got rid of them, almost all of them.
Jews, … what jews, right! They were all terrorists… or whatever else they had to call them to get rid of them all.
Actually the I and G haplogroups where all terrorists or whatever we secretly called them to get rid of them and control their governments to erase their genetics and culture.
India?…. what india, the r1a india?! and all the rest we got rid of that no one will ever no about, terrorists! every one of them!
Pacific islanders? Terrorists! Had to get rid of them.
Eskimos, Inuit? Terrorists! Had to get rid of them.
Russia? China?, Africa working on it! though pretty much already done for, those terrorists.
Everyone of them weren’t “moderate”, and they where “supporters” ….. or something. None of them where an “ideology, or religion”, just a bunch of terrorists. Deport all the terrorists from the land we just stole and erased 5 minutes ago.
Hey everybody, let’s all trust the 100% r1b controlled nsa, fbi, cia, they’ve never hurt anyone… We should all just believe them! Why should we suspect them of doing anything wrong? If your against r1b’s stealing every bit of technology produced and using it just for themselves your just a terrorist!
Pretty sure they said the same about putting Japanese-Americans in internment camps. Just ask George Takei how that worked out for him?
Stop overreacting. PERIOD.
Seattle should not be part of your name or screen name. It just doesn’t fit.
Do you recognize the similarity of your comments to the policies of the Nazis against the Jews in the post WWI decades, leading to their extermination?!
You bring new meaning to the “ugly American” syndrome. Seriously. Who died and made you Elvis?
Don’t quit your day job.
Great that you call out the racists, but where were all the Glennbots when your BFF Mona was expressing Neonazi sympathies? Nowhere to be found. You guys gave her a pass. Again showing your pro-imperialist cred.
So you can call out the racist assholes all you want, you’re still not fooling anybody. Imperialist apologist.
Your evidence that Mona was expressing neo-nazi smpathies? Also nowhere to be found. I remember reading what you are talking about and she was not doing anything of the kind. She did give your shit-stirring some traction though…. which is fecking awesome!
I’ve asked you before if you get paid to post here. Care to answer that question?
I also asked if you were one of the many journalists that Greenwald exposed as incompetent boobs. Care to answer that question?
There are a few others, but I doubt you could keep track so these should suffice.
Put Stars by it
Mona really isn’t a Nazi, but she is extremely insensitive toward Jews. I used to give her the benefit of the doubt at the Guardian, but the Nazi comment was from someone who apparently is clueless on why someone might be offended by a Nazi sponsor. However, Dahoit is an anti Jewish bigot who really goes unchallenged on this site.
Mona said that if a Neonazi sympathizer was the only person who would sponsor journalists then she was all for it. It was something like that. Then she disappeared from the site. Some commenters at another site were discussing Omdiyar’s support of Modi and one of them commented that Mona like Greenback$ supported the war in Iraq.
She’s an imperialist and I suspect if she’s intolerant towards Jews, it’s just a cover and that she’s actually a Zionist. She’s a reactionary asshole. I doubt she or Greenback$ ever changed their views on imperialism, Greenback$ just says what his audiences want to hear.
“…….Mona said that if a Neonazi sympathizer was the only person who would sponsor journalists then she was all for it……”
Yes – extremely insensitive, but not a Nazi (and surely, definitely, positively, absolutely and without a doubt not a Zionist).
Thanks.
“All Muslims must be deported from the west at once!”
The US should fully embrace fascist policies like what you’re describing, or it should stop targeting people based on their ethnicity, religion or political affiliations. It can’t have it both ways: On the one hand pretending it’s against fascism for PR purposes, while secretly implementing fascist policies.
We don’t have fascism in the U.S. at the moment. Oh you and the other capitalists like to pretend we do, but we’re not in a fascist situation, even with the immigration stuff. It’s just plain old bourgeois capitalism and imperialism. Not fascist yet.
And you clearly are not aware of cointelpro or the covert war being waged by FBI and CIA against dissidents, whistleblowers, artists and activists of any human rights groups. Or rather you just haven’t been targeted yet. Trust me we exist in pre nazi Germany and Obama is no less guilty of genocide than bush or hitler. Permanent detention camps are being built nationwide and the new White House is being built to ensure the continuity of government in the ozark mountains. All pending mass civil unrest after the stocks crash and we are forced to starve to death or worse. There are NO conspiracy theories. Get hip. Your government views us all as potential terrorists, yourself included because you might wanna survive and might have a problem with what they are cooking up.
That might be the saddest, most ignorant post I’ve ever read.
Muslims in America have been contributing to the development of it ever since many were brought here as slaves.
I just feel sorry for you for allowing your inner self to reflect these negative qualities, as they are not conducive to its health.
I encourage you to focus on your inner self and groom it to reflect the higher qualities, such as love, generosity, peace, forgiveness, selflessness, not doing to others what you don’t want it done unto you, etc., and see the humanity in those who you consider to be “the other”, for in reality, there’s no otherness.
With love and respect,
Take care,
His name is really Charlie See Little – he misspelled it. ;)
Sufi, have you seen this book? http://www.amazon.com/Muslims-America-Amir-Nashid-Muhammad/dp/0915957752/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t/189-4327113-5324046
Interesting history. Traces free Muslims to the Mississippi Delta, and to settlements in South Texas, beginning as early as the 14th Century.
The fact that they were spied upon is bad, but it’s worse that they were in the USA to begin with! Just say “NO!” to moslem immigration!
Isn’t it possible that the people living “outwardly exemplary lives” are not entirely innocent? After all, I’ve had people email me that I did not expect to email me and some of the things they said in their emails would (and should) have caused the ears of some government agency to perk-up. The issue is not that these people had their communications monitored; instead, it is the fact that they were not arrested, their homes were not raided, and they are not being treated poorly. It’s quite the opposite. Maybe somebody emailed them that needed to be monitored? Maybe they were scapegoats for front groups that dealt with terrorists. And let’s not forget: Having a government job, proximity to the military, top secret security clearances are not indicative of people’s behavior. Edward Snowden is proof of that.
Of course, this doctrine can go to its logical end, that the absence of suspicious indicators are a suspicious indicator. It’s been done before by national-security authorities, and it’s very effective.
The fact that there is no evidence just confirms how clever they are at concealing their nefarious activities! I mean, the towers fell straight down! No way that can happen just from a plane crashing into them sideways, it’s just common sense that if you hit something sideways it falls sideways! So there has to be a conspiracy, and the coverup is just that effective!
I can’t get enough of your Constitution worship. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anybody so taken with this ridiculous protection contract for the ruling elites.
Look, PSBI, if you haven’t any law, then everyone’s the new dipstick in town. Someone has to make us all bow down. And the only bow I will make is to the unadulterated law. I won’t cry for God to make clear that which is what is most dear to humanity, our right to live free. Go Cromwell yourself a miserable mistake of a remake. We already did dat.
Before there was this contract you so disregard, there was nothing but a body of a regent to declare the game fair, and he was typically against the ropes by those with more money to bring to the bear fights. Yup, even kings give into patronage. Like my Gpa John, what a major folder!
Why did Elizabeth stand before she fell dead? Because she embodied the fracking law of mankind which even held her own kin to account. Mother, may we? But we got over that mistake and enshrined it into a contract between them and US. If they fail us, we may abandon them, but never the law. Let’s talk squarely. I don’t like this didactic shite at all. Reel me in, Virginia!
There is no perfect charter as there are no perfect men, but we must try, little loafer, or succumb to slavery. You really are just a budding socialist, aren’t you. I like the Danish with a big fat German coffee.
Well, yes. Without the rule of law, that means no property title and the sans-culottes are perfectly free to take over their chateaux. Allons, citoyens!
This is a spectacular example of the psychological defense: rationalization. Given your need/inability to suspend your belief/disbelief (Say it isn’t so!), I sincerely hope it’s working for you. You’ve thrown enought What abouts and What ifs at the wall to keep your preferred beliefs “protected” for some time. May they never wear out.
Yeah, people can live “outwardly exemplary lives”, and still break the law… like spying on US Citizens without probable evidence to suggest otherwise. The US is a country of laws & rights, and there’s that whole “Innocent until proven guilty” concept. So yeah… you don’t get to pick & chose the laws you obey and the ones you don’t.
In that case, you should also be surveilled, having received those “suspicious” emails. Oh wait – your name doesn’t sound Arab or Muslimy. If it did, you would certainly be under surveillance.
“…The question before this House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery…Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope…For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it….”
Wow, who knew Patrick Henry would relate so well to our plight? He’s fighting the forces who say it’s too late to give a damn, and that England is not so mad at us they will take away our god given rights. I’ll be damned. I support your right to hope, but I hope you are prepared for the worst. Then you won’t be dissappointed.
Is Bob our uncle, now? Better to know…
Clearly we have some overreach, under Bush/Cheney.
They should have had “probable cause to believe that American targets are agents of an international terrorist organization or other foreign power,
AND “are or may be” engaged in or abetting espionage, sabotage, or terrorism.”
This apparent response, full of self-recrimination and rectitude, is the usual Presser without salient info.
http://icontherecord.tumblr.com/post/91248854753/joint-statement-by-the-office-of-the-director-of
An extraordinarily detailed and disturbing article. I don’t understand how this is ‘constitutional,’ without the Constitution being warped beyond recognition into impotence.
Publish the full list!
Please answer the question. Is this the list or not?
Those are five names they found by backsearching email accounts which turned out to be American. Did you count how many email accounts they are capturing? There are more Americans. Can’t find anything else to occupy your time? Try Dicking around like a Nixon. That gets people’s unwarranted attention.
Dude, is this you idea of a trial by fury? Those names will come when they darn well want to. Maybe Glenn is giving targets the option to opt out while GCHQ decided fo NewsUK’s victims they’d not want to know they’d been hacked or be exposed for wanting to. There are layers of this sheet cake that are included in each and every bite.
I think you are terribly, terribly confused about this concept of a “list.” You’ve also demonstrated an astounding lack of reading comprehension… assuming you read this piece, at all.
Repetitively asking your silly “question” isn’t going to increase the odds that you’ll get a reply.
Bowman is parsing what STARTS a investigation, and omits the number of times folks get stepped upon once upon a time. I stepped on Ron Howard’s dad’s foot, while Fonzie jumped the dock. That doesn’t make me a clock.
Server having trouble with traffic.
Greenback$:
I can think of somebody else who “decides what is and isn’t news.”
I feel sorry for someone who can’t think of anything else to say. I can change the subject all day. Green Eyed monster got your granny? Why can’t you think beyond the green, social machine?
Yeah, but at this point nobody cares what you think. Your credibility is nil.
Why anyone would think that he/she has any credibility when their rhetorical device du jour is deliberately misspelling the name of the author is the only thing worth pondering in anything you ever post.
Poor Puter’s been putting it in there like that for days on end, folks. It’s the oldest joke in the Geico commercial.
You’re a liberal imperialist, right? So by definition you have no credibility. Part of the oligarch protection racket that pervades this website. You’ll have to share with us you how you are anything but useless to the working class. I’ve read many of your posts ( really, too many of them) and they are largely new age jargon and counterrevolutionary smears couched as “radical.” I’ve read your ridiculous brain-dead no-solution “solutions” to capitalist power and they are utterly crap. You’re an embarrassment to anything approaching dialogues about liberation movements. You’re another liberal bourgeois trying to rebrand yourself as some kind of leftist radical, but your shtick is completely transparent. Your longwinded diatribes go on about nothing while you boost oligarchs and imperialism, your protectionist views of billionnaires alone is disturbing. I’ve seen you post the same lame shit at the Guardian. Completely clueless. Your new agey language isn’t fooling anybody.
See above.
As long as it’s the benevolent oligarch paying for the dissemination of “news,” then it gets a pass.
I am a Targeted Individual (TI) in that I am under 24/7 surveillance by NSA? CIA? FBI? I am subjected to COINTELPRO like stalking and personal destruction to make homeless I am TORTURED with ELECTROMAGNETIC WEAPONS. People in the Targeted Individual community were expecting you to release all NSA spying targets or at least American NSA spying targets.
Nice try, mis-info guy. You tip yourself off with the ELECTROMAGNETIC WEAPONS schtick. And there are lots of targeted individuals, but the only TI communities around are those run by (or infiltrated by) the Stasi.
But no worries, your cover will not be blown. G.G and E.S. have your back.
And by the way, the five targets listed are Americans; they just do not fit your narrow NSA Dictionary’s definition of American, or even human.
Interesting Stan that you automatically claim that the use of military weapons against a target is misinformation. Sure he could be a disinfo agent and so could you. I got news for you Stan, blackmail isn’t the name of the game, non-consensual human experimentation with military weapons and surveillance technology is the current playbook… by whom is yet to be determined. The endgame is control of human populations across the globe, as it all goes to hell, due to climate change and population increase. BTW, every single conflict going on right now…there’s oil and gas under the ground, or offshore. These conflicts are about money.
The weapons are very real, I can’t tell you exactly what technology is being used, but I can tell you the exact effects on the human body of all of them. Greenwald probably doesn’t have the info in his docs, but a hacker might. These are black black programs, maybe outsourced to MIC contractors, probably with some private money thrown in, since it only benefits the billionaires in the end.
I could be wrong about him. I do not doubt some of these weapons exist, but I don’t think they’ve been used on me.
My perceptions about gangstalking probably does not match up perfectly with the reality. But I have at least one decade’s worth of experience as a TI, in London, Sao Paulo, and the US. I know something about it.
When I come across what I believe to be a COINTELPRO disinfo site, it usually starts off with descriptions of the boilerplate tactics — very believable, I am experiencing them — then it goes on to describe exotic weapons, and how they are tested on targets or random pedestrians. I see this as the disinfo agent’s signature. As a long-term target, I find it difficult to give the benefit of the doubt to someone I even slightly perceive to be engaged discrediting targets (characterizing them as tinfoil hat wearing, laser weapon & mind control victims).
I could be wrong. If so, forgive me. Both of you. And I agree with everything you said in your admonishing reply.
Would be grateful if you replied with some link(s) to sites describing these weapons and their effects. For all I know, some of them have been used on me, and I am currently being denied medical treatment here in the US. All the doctors’ offices & labs I’ve visited since returning to the US in 2012 (after leaving in 1999) turned out to be infested with Stasi rodents. Maybe you do have news for me.
Best,
Stan
Drywall guy just repaired the 11 fist holes in the walls, they replaced the stove door for free, they want around $200 a piece for the 3 interior doors, and I havn’t priced the refrigerator and freezer doors yet. Shattered both of my fists and both feet. Smashed about 6 laptops and a monitor, the cars? you don’t wanna know… Which department do I send the invoice to? and there’s quite a few other invoices.
Ok Stan, I’m going to assume you are real and give you some advice. I am a filmmaker and the child of a Fed. In theory, I’m suppose to be off limits. After he retired my father did the backgrounds on the NSA recruits, physicists and mathematicians who built the current system. Most of them do not have strong social skills, they probably thought they were doing the right thing for their country, as opposed to working for a hedge fund. USG has tech that is far beyond anything in outside world. They got to play with the best toys. You could have 90% of people working at Intelligence Agencies and contractors who are doing legitimate work. You can do work and not know how it it is used. I would like everyone to stop blaming every employee of the US Government, as if they knew. They can be targeted as well…and their families, because I am targeted. I think the first video in Glenn’s story expresses this opinion very well, anyone can be targeted and this is the blackmail.
For the weapons and precise surveillance to work, I think they have to implant you with an RFID chip (it may be something else, but that’s what I’ll call it). I received mine during recurring and possibly unnecessary breast biopsies. That started after I turned 40, they now want to implant young women with a birth control “chip”. I recently had two of the chips removed, one of them was two inches long, completely different from what the doctor was describing to me ( a small T or M to mark the spot) who did the procedure. I now have precancerous cell changes around where the chips were implanted and I’m in danger of developing full blown cancer. After the two chips were removed, many of the major symptoms stopped, which included burns across my body, mood changes on cue, limbs jerking while sleeping, feelings of electricity dancing across my body. Really , I could go on and on . I still have two more chips in my body (one is a cork screw shape), so I experience extreme pain in my head, concurrent with ear ringing.
What I will tell you is that the stalking and harassment is a precursor to the weapons deployment. Think about it, they have to be making money on this. They study you, slowly destroy your life, isolate you from family and friends…and then they release the “Kraken”, which are the the people testing psy ops, directed energy weapons, fast acting drugs permeable through skin on contact, inhalants…you name it, they’re f*$cking doing it to people who have been targeted. I’ve been harassed by both Orthodox Jews and Neo Nazis…but never on the same shift. Huge numbers of Chinese are involved. It’s very difficult to tell whether this is an actual USG operation or groups, billionaires with an agenda who have always been in charge, accessing black budgets, possibly intelligence databases. I’m pretty good at figuring out who is who and I still don’t know who is running this operation. I suspect their may have been black groups within the NSA targeting people, but I don’t know for sure. What I do know, is that my first post must have been semi-accurate because today was off the hook, literally people talking on the phone in code about killing me. I was surrounded by a bunch of guys (that I will give the benefit of the doubt) who were protecting me.
@AmericanGestapo14 10 Jul 2014 at 9:32 pm
Thanks for the reply.
What a horrible experience you’re going through, if it’s real. It is believable to me because it is no more bizarre than my own experience.
Why do you think they’re attacking you? Where are you? (I’m in Silicon Valley.)
Briefly (sort of) on the matter of blaming every USG employee (and every US consumer): I would just say that yes, it isn’t fair or even remotely accurate to smear them all; it’s a tactic, meant to provoke a little bit of self-reflection, sometime after a few of the self-proclaimed innocent bystanders’ reflexive outrage dissipates. And it’s also not fair for you and I to be relentlessly and cruelly attacked while they blithely ignore it, or even have a laugh. While ‘they’ is not ‘all’, of course, I think it’s about time for those who just did the work, thinking they were doing good, to begin reconsidering their own roles. I can say these things because I’m not interested in american popularity contests, and there is not much more they can do to me beyond taking that last step: kill me. (Better to go down with middle finger in the air than go begging accommodaters for help.)
Regarding chip implants… Fucking monstrous. How do you refrain from going postal? I ask that, not quite sure why I haven’t done the same. (My wife and another friend who now know what’s been happening for so many years do not understand how I survived. I think it’s because of my wife’s trustworthiness and character. I thank her all the time for saving my life.) There is something in me that has not been diagnosed, but I doubt it’s a chip. I have to go to BR for an MRI to find out what’s going on because as I said before — and you know better than I — domestic targets cannot afford to trust doctors and labs in the US. While that statement seems dumb — a tip-off to lab technician recruiting Stasi agents in BR — they don’t need a chip implant to know where I go and when, and they’ve already administered a bit of mild physical torture in a Brazil medical lab. But still, I’ve had more rodent-free experiences with BR doctors than I have had here in the US (a many : zero ratio).
Regarding the stalking and harassment — “…They study you, slowly destroy your life, isolate you from family and friends..”
I know. They have indeed been out to destroy my life, and have even tried, unsuccessfully, to turn my wife against me. But I have been fortunate, so far, to enjoy a bit of shielding from this sort of attack, because I have been living with Brazilians instead of smack in the middle of Stasiland, where I am now; Stasi agents and their little helpers are everywhere in Silicon Valley, even inside the Chinese company I work in. (I’m sure China HQ knows.)
The most perverse, twisted shit that’s happened to me here (US), occurred in the workplace. I idiotically gave the benefit of the doubt to a Stasi rodent who tried to persuade me to take my wife to Texas (of all places) to undergo aggressive radiation therapy, which our trustworthy and effective doctors in Brazil have stridently insisted would kill her. My wife was much smarter than I; she trusts her doctors at home and refused to get that ‘third opinion’, as more than one Stasi rodent characterized it. I would prefer to be gut-shot than deliver the loved one most responsible for my not being destroyed — isolated from family and friends, etc. — into the hands of the some evil fucking Stasi torture doctor in Houston Fucking Texas. (Texans sicced the Stasi on me in the first place; I nurture a very special contempt for that particular third world shit-hole. To them: when more ‘Good Texans’ grow sufficient vertebrae to start standing up to the evil fucks among you, I’ll start treating you with greater deference. I’m not holding my breath.)
I never thought they’d go after my wife, but I was supremely naive and stupid. American evil respects no limits.
Now, comparing notes on who’s involved… For years I thought it was just a personal vendetta. I pissed off religious people in the military and they’ve been exacting their twisted, psychotics’ revenge. Makes sense. But after arriving here in 2012 for a job, I learned this pathology is a massive fucking institution, much bigger than just petty personal revenge. All sorts of people get mixed up in the gangstalking: security guards, janitors, doctors, insurance agents, DVM employees, and myriad, nasty little perps who follow you (or greet you) at the grocery store or in the park. They seem to go through tactical phases, harassing me from various demographic slices of society at different times. After I arrived, I noticed some perps were using aliases matching the names of people in Texas who issued many death threats. Sometimes, the perps look like soldiers. There was an interval when most of the perps were female — complete strangers making snide, emasculating remarks (or actions, while I’m on the doctor’s table) just to let me know “I’m a rodent too; we’re all over you”. But they are what they are: rats. A lab-rat may ram an anesthesia IV in the wrong place so I stay awake for an intrusive medical procedure, but she may not bruise my tender feelings. Then there are the call-center rats — at ATT, State Farm, Citibank, the DMV, etc… My telephone is useless inside Stasiland, but the Stasi finally quit spamming it because I never answer. In Brazil… they even interrupted regularly scheduled programming to beam me little sketches specially prepared for me. Fucking unbelievable. The reality is that the cable news and three initial broadcasting corporations are infested with Stasi rats, which explains precisely why they are mum on the subject of gangstalking and the Stasi’s depravity in general. They are just as much a part of the Stasi-Military-Industrial Complex as is Google and Lockheed Martin. CNN/NBC/FOX don’t just lie and broadcast stupid statements they actually believe, during their hilarious stabs at ‘journalism’, they fucking gangstalk people. Corrupt police personnel are also in the mix. In London, a police helicopter hovered over my roof for about 20-30 minutes. That was about ten years ago, and I did not believe it was me they were trying to spook, but I do now. (I’ve posted about some of these experiences before, so it’s a repeat, but the more eyes on it, the better, so interested Stasi watchers can find the overlap in self-proclaimed targets’ stories.)
No one can be trusted in the US. This will be the 21st Century US population’s legacy, analogous to the former East German Untouchables': the Stasi taint that refuses to wash off. Maybe the taint will wear off by the 22nd Century, if the US lives that long.
Regarding the death threats. I’m as familiar with them as you, and sincerely hope you are giving the benefit of the doubt to those who merit trust. I hope it is true. If so, I am happy for you and I can imagine the intense gratitude you must feel towards them. Hell, I’m grateful to them.
Now, circling again, back to the things I say which I know annoy the shit out of you: you’re extremely put off by my gross generalizations about american consumers. I am, at my own expense — believe me, there is no money in it — simply flipping the mirror back at them so they get a good, strong whiff of what it’s like to be demonized and dehumanized just before thousands of 500lb. bombs reign down on their heads. But I skip the last step. I don’t lob real bombs or make death-threats (they do). You get the idea, I hope. In other countries, I’ve heard this several times: “I hate , but, but, but… the people are ok(!?), it’s your government I have a problem with.” My response is: “No, the American people are not ok; they are the problem. D.C. is the symptom. Watch: they’re about to give the keys to the Pentagon to Hillary Fucking Clinton.” Some have paused, and responded: “you know, you’re right”. Goddamn right I’m right. If Americans are comfortable with destroying Iraq and Gaza on a whim, are comfortable with military personnel threatening to kill dissidents like me, and laugh at the thought of siccing the Stasi on me for a fun-filled dozen year torture session, I have absolutely nothing to gain by pandering to The Great American People™. Fuck them. Pushback is not polite. I’ll give them a status upgrade when they give status upgrades to others. Quid quo pro. Absolutely nothing will be reformed while the vast majority of US consumers ignore and/or continue endorsing the demented, vicious, perpetual attacks on so many people (including you and I), up to the scale of entire countries, and even huge geographic regions (for example: Persia to Palestine).
That said, I wish you well, and thanks for the advice. I hope your health keeps up, and the Stasi’s attacks on you stop in time. I’m not being flippant here; I wish the same for myself. I have forgotten what it’s like to be alone, unwatched.
I also hope that other people targeted by the Stasi — those who do not deserve it, which has to outnumber those who do deserve it, given the Stasi’s lazy, sloppy use of terrorist/extremist GUI check-boxes — will tell some of their stories, so interested observers start to see the pattern. We have to put the stories out there, even on the Stasi’s own platform (internet), so at least there will be some record (until deleted by the Stasi). No one is going to help us. No one helped Stasi targets in the GDR until the GDR was literally killed off. Like you said, maybe there are some hackers out there who can download corroborating evidence from Stasi servers and desktops, or better yet, some of the perps themselves will decide it’s time to risk Stasi wrath and violate its Omertà. If some American hacker or whistleblower does come to our defense, I will be giving out status upgrades to more and more Americans, while feasting on the most delicious crow I have ever tasted.
I could go on and on too. Sure would be nice to meet other targets and compare notes in private, whatever private means.
Using “Mohammed Raghead” as a placeholder for the identity of a target is indicative of the mentality and intellectual maturity of the people in charge of surveillance in the US. It’s terrifying if you think about it.
Perhaps I’m biased, but how about the way AZ cops like to throw the LADIES around? It’s a social disease, this loosening of the restraints, encouraged by the government when it serves their goals and surveilled when it doesn’t. I say the TPD has it all over the Arizona State coppers! When they push a woman down, she STAYS down!! Those Tempe coppers let that woman get back up and kick them in the shins.
It is altogether unsurprising. That’s the mentality of your average GWBush supporter. Heck, it’s the mentality of Bush himself.
They are recruited from the general population but one would expect an agency of the federal government to do a little reeducation.
Orientalism
I’ve been signalling the Muslim community secretly at WalMart.
Standing in line, the couple behind me looked sort of Muslim because the wife wore her scarf so beautifully and they chattered in what sounded kinda Farsi. So, with this assumption, I turned in horror to find a headline suggesting our president was a Magic Muslim. How might I communicate there is nothing wrong with being Muslim, but the headliner is a liar? Then I saw the twenty rolls of toilet paper rolling down the belt toward the checker and pointed at both papers simultaneously. Big Smiles! Those Muslims just love me. I don’t know about you, but I love this country and detest the one you dream of.
Excellent piece. Thank you so much for sharing it. Peace
How shameful that people would try to down play this amazing story simply because they are Muslim. How bigoted are you that you would not consider what this really means for anyone who is a person of faith? How ridiculous is it not to acknowledge that beyond their faith is the fact that they are AMERICANS who should have NEVER been spied on without just cause or due process! Wake up! If we let it happen to our neighbor than it is only a matter of time it will happen to us. Actually, I would hope the Intercept discloses the non-Muslim targets as well so people can get a grip on reality as to how Orwellian our gov’t is. We MUST stop this s***! we have a tiny window to put an end to the NSA. As responsible Americans we need to get off our a** and STOP IT NOW!
I don’t think most of the posters here are downplaying it because they’re Muslim Americans. The problem is that 1) this isn’t breaking news, it’s well documented that Muslims have been spied on and tapped, we’ve known for at least many months, in news that Greenback$ didn’t break; 2) this article was not what was “promised” as the Grand Poobah Fireworks Show(TM) that Greenbuck$ “Put Stars By It” reported back in April. 3) These are not working class or marginalized Muslim Americans. Of course they shouldn’t be tapped, is anybody here saying they SHOULD be? The problem is the selectivity of this group, rich bourgeois influential people with ties to high government officials, not only here but in other countries. It expresses Greenbuck$’ classism well, though. He’s a liberal capitalist.
I’d like to know how Greenback$ squares his view that the NSA shouldn’t be abolished and that we should still be allowing the imperialists in power to choose who the enemies are to spy on. His position is imperialist.
Let me guess, you’re anti-colonial. Doesn’t that make you the enemy of that poor Indian who’s family lost out when being Chrsitian didn’t count for anything once the Brits left them alone? So he dragged his sad arse story to America and laid it out on our president’s father’s grave in moving form. Did he make a fool of himself or was that GCHQ on the job? You know the slob who was screwing around before he got his final decree at King’s Collegee somethingy? No, I will NOT say his name. But was he a victim of GCHQ, too? I thought he might get knifed in the long run what with all that shouting about conspiracies as logical theories like a volkish revelry.
Why do so many people seem to believe that name-calling enhances their argument or point of view? Let the legitimacy of your comments stand or fall based on their substance. Once you’ve reached the point of personal attacks you’ve given up any reasonable discussion of the issues. We all have people for whom our distaste can overwhelm our objectivity but public displays of disgust don’t do much to advance our understanding of the information they present…and isn’t that what these comments are supposed to be about?
You are down playing it.
You’re downplaying it because they’re Muslim and brown! If these were college white frat guys from good ol’ suburbia you would be hysterical but of course being that it is just some men of color it’s deemed nothing big. This is very very very big; for one now there are clear evidence of innocent men who have been targeted by the US gov’t on record without question. These men can now bring a very specific law suit against the NSA and hopefully bring the NSA down. This is not your local police wiretap. This is the NSA targeting civilians without a legitimate ’cause. I hope they bring their case to the Supreme Court and a collective civil suit against the NSA that devastates this lying spying apparatus These men have every constitutional right to throw the book at the NSA. I hope they all bring a civil suit and claim racial and religious discrimination against the NSA. I want them to eat the NSA up for breakfast!
Oh and who is “Greenbuck$” or “Greenback$” because I don’t recognize what you are talking about.
welcome to the list!
HAY!
Did I watch Brian Williams deploy some of that GCHQ Psychology on the leader of ISIL last night? That watch he’s wearing, is it too rich for his taste in ideology?
I’d like to know who he took it off of, but the intel is weak. Looks like that program is still running down its batteries. GCHQ, you know you’d love to fly a Telegraphed dialtone.
Naturally, some are more privacy protected than others, to paraphrase Animal Farm.
http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/07/08/69343.htm
During his appeal, Cook took a new job as the editor-in-chief of The Intercept, a website formed to publish other secret documents: namely, those leaked by NSA whistle-blower Edward Snowden.
Sparking massive public debate about invasions into privacy in the name of national security, Snowden’s trove illuminated mass surveillance programs that the Bush administration authorized in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
Taking a stand for Bush and Cheney’s privacy interests, a three-judge panel for the 2nd Circuit unanimously affirmed dismissal of Cook’s case Tuesday.
“These requests of the former President and Vice-President at issue here, made for purposes of their private research, perhaps for preparation of memoirs, reveal their preliminary thinking and personal matters,” Judge Denny Chin wrote for the panel. “The disclosure of this information would indeed ‘constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy.'”
General confidentiality for library requests adds another layer of protection over the information, the court found.
“All fifty states and the District of Columbia protect the confidentiality of the records of a person’s use of public library materials,” according to the 24-page opinion. “Similarly, the ‘Code of Ethics for Archivists’ approved by the Society of American Archivists commands archivists to ‘respect all users’ rights to privacy by maintaining the confidentiality of their research and protecting any personal information collected about the users.”
Where is the rest of the list of names?
The list of people surveilled? To the extent that the NSA may be doing it? Maybe we need to get a telephone directory.
Are you that anxious to see your name in print?
Shahid Buttar 09 Jul 2014 at 2:04 am
I would like to add my kudos to those of Kitt below on your video and website. It’s fantastic and I plan on spreading the link as widely as possible, one way in which to propagate the change we all are striving for. My only constructive comment would be to raise the volume on the vocals relative to the background music. The lyrics are spot on, very well done, but they tend to disappear in the beat at times and that’s a shame considering the fantastic job you’ve done with them.
http://shahidbuttar.com/NSAvsUSA
The entire webpage is worth exploring.
http://shahidbuttar.com/
Didn’t we already know for quite a while that the NYPD was targeting Muslims (more than five!) in their sweeps and taps? At least that report revealed that it was working class and marginalized people and not five Muslim members of the bourgeoisie.
I’m not sure how this “breaking” news of wiretapping five bourgeois Muslims some with considerable wealth with ties to high-ranking officials in different countries is anything but an “anti-bombshell.”
There’s a class aspect to this that stinks, of course. Greenback$ himself is a bourgeois capitalist. Gellman’s piece had more teeth to it, but face it the entire wiretapping Snowcone thing has pretty much come to an end.
And now the poobah Greenback$ himself is whinging about being “censored” on Reddit. What a fucking joke. Like this whining egotistical baby doesn’t have enough outlets for his broken record “journalism.”
So, you’re some cheka’d sock wringing socialist? You don’t even have a clue what you are up to, silly. You want to bring down this machine? Lay off the feed bag. I tried to tell you that a thousand times, but the Milgrams like the way I scream when no one can hear me. I can turn it up to elevendy, study subjects.
You hate Glenn because you can’t be with David, I know.
Yeah because being a socialist is such a, you know, bullshit thing. It’s well known that Greenback$ primary following is liberal capitalists and reactionaries. So I can understand how “bringing down the machine” would be the opposite of the goals of you and your capitalist friends including Greenback$. Greenbuck$ is on the record saying he thinks NSA is fine, it just needs a few tweaks around the edges. That’s an imperialist position, but I’m sure you already knew that and you don’t give a shit.
And this is the age of the benevolent oligarch who will save us from, well, from I guess ourselves. They’ll just happen to destroy the working class in the process, something which I know you and most of the folks posting here are cheering about.
MMMM… I love the smell of socialist propaganda in the morning…. Smells like…. BULLSHIT.
Also, this:
“Greenwald is on record saying he thinks NSA is fine”
ORLY? Well, this here comment is from the AMA he did THIS MORNING: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2a8hn2/we_are_glenn_greenwald_murtaza_hussain_who_just/cisi48w
Spoiler alert: he doesn’t think the NSA can be saved.
Gee, if you know all that, why aren’t you doing something about it? “Tis a puzzelment, no?
I admit it, I’m not working much these days, either. Don’t have to. My insurance is affordable and I hope some poor college kid can do my old job teaching smaller kids how to suck farts out of old text books. Did you know Texas ignores provenance and now calls Imperialism “Expansionism” as commanded by their fervency board? They take Manifest Destiny to a whole new continent. Who wants noodles?
I wonder which company was willing to imprint that BS for Perry and his chalkboard jumble. Would it be that raging country couple, McGraw Hill? They won’t sell. Seriously, you have to buy their books or go to the berry. No one is violating their proprietary formulas for warping children’s minds! Not if the law can help it.
Silly star puter, I’m a free glockenspieling anarchist. I can afford to burn my own bridges, dude! Pee on my carpet, then we’ll read the signs.
Yeah because being a socialist is such a, you know, bullshit thing. It’s well known that Greenback$ primary following is liberal capitalists and reactionaries. So I can understand how “bringing down the machine” would be the opposite of the goals of you and your capitalist friends including Greenback$. Greenbuck$ is on the record saying he thinks THE NSA is fine, it just needs a few tweaks around the edges. That’s an imperialist position, but I’m sure you already knew that and you don’t give a shit.
And this is the age of the benevolent oligarch who will save us from, well, from I guess ourselves. They’ll just happen to destroy the working class in the process, something which I know you and most of the folks posting here are cheering about.
I grew up eating shite for the machine, so excuse me for not being as green as you. Daddy dropped napalm, any questions?
I’m with Tomi Ungerer, you polar fracks are crazy. Never knew I liked erotica until I saw Tomi’s!! Free speech is all I preach, but I did discover the church bells that drove my mother mad we forged for a Saary Hitler. How did we manage to miss that bell tower? OMG, she would be spitting bullets over that one!! You know your fascist soundings, Mom!
I think you think you know what you want, but haven’t a clue. I detest the machine, too. But Glenn’s got the ball and the game’s afoot. So cheese it with the wishing him worse than your worst enemy, silly. He’s got the keys to the cyber kingdom. Be quiet or he’ll eventually cook your goose like he did mine, or was that Cookie?
All duplicity is forgiven. I know in a decade you will come to some of my conclusions. I do not diss socialistic dreams, I diss those who toss them about for effect. You be bipolar in your thinking the world is only at its ends. You people muck up middle earth for us hobbits habitually!
Woke up late PSBI? Glad you are here at last, to comment on this farce.
This is the end, beautiful friend
This is the end, my only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSUIQgEVDM4&feature=kp
Is this the list? Publish the list please. I don’t think you can find a brain dead middle schooler in the good old USSA that doesn’t know the gov’t spies in prominent muslim activists. Total disappointment.
Some of these targets now may find standing before the court which had no way of knowing they are being surveilled, but now they do. Ya HOOO!!!
They are your canary, birdman lawyer, making way for you to lead a more assured private life.
You better hope they don’t drop dead, mutton head. We could wait for your illustrious trial where your tor sacking is reviled. If not the least cared for by the most base, then who would you protect with your big bad Constitution?
disappointing comments that show that many Americans think of Muslims as “other.” I happen to know some of the hardworking leaders, and they are normal and admirable. They all meet with government officials. Will transparency is indeed needed, sadly they have to fend off the absurd attacks of the right wing. Mass psychology seems to create and accept scapegoats and these days people seem to believe everything on the interne if it fits their prejudices.
Since in the last few days it was reported that over 35 bystanders were caught up in surveillance for each target, we can expect that most or all of the employees and colleagues of these men were also monitored. We all sensed this but don’t expect us to like it or accept it. THAT would be un-American.
This is the most balanced Glenn Greenwald article i’ve ever read
anyone with a @aol or @juno account deserves to be kicked off the internet. Come on what are you doing on the internet with those email accounts anyway?
I too pine for the days before AOL forever tainted our shiny clean Internet with the muddy footprints of the hoi polloi…the insults and flame wars were so much more erudite and gentlemanly in those times. Alas…
Older, less technically inclined people are probably more likely to have an AOL email account. Or people who got their primary (non-work) email relatively early, and stuck with it. And even if they realized that better options had become available, many people won’t change something if it’s currently working fine, due to the hassle involved. The highly unlikely chance of missing some forwarded email would probably dissuade most people, unless their email provider became completely awful. I don’t see many people leaving gmail even if it gets much worse. (although people already put up with the targeted ads and data mining, so the “getting worse” would probably have to be even more extreme than merely shrinking storage space or a bad UI change)
Obviously there is a cabal within the FBI which remains unreformed since the Hoover era. No doubt the FBI used the NSA in choosing whom to frame for the 1996 Atlanta bombing and the 2001 anthrax attacks.
Thanks for including in the story crucial issues regarding the FISA Court. We address those issues – and possible solutions – in this report: http://www.afj.org/blog/afj-report-examines-troubling-questions-about-fisa-court
Alliance for Justice
Washington DC
Read again about Benedict Arnold, we’d be fools to not investigate those who continue their close ties with those who declare that we are the great Satan and will kill US. http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/americanrevolutio1/p/American-Revolution-Major-General-Benedict-Arnold.htm
I share your family name, but I fear you haven’t heard about our kin in Canada plotting Lincoln’s “kidnapping” with the Confederate president’s permission slips.
General Carroll of Tennessee wanted Johnson deader than Lincoln! He called that Tennessee turncoat and a pricklouse accordian to the journalist spy who brought that out in the tribunal and the NYTs promptly reprinted it. Nearly got said journo hung when the Confederates called him on his duplicity.
Arnold is an interesting and illustrative case. Here we have the most capable and competent military commander in the Continental Army (Washington included!) who almost certainly would have gone on to be recognized as one of the heroes of our nation’s Founding were it not for the petty jealousy of one ambitious, social-climbing man, Nathaniel Gates. Gates screwed him over royally (heh!), Washington supported Gates, and that’s what drove Arnold to the other side.
If you screw over people long enough, they eventually will turn against you.
Where is the list we were promised with the names of all Americans under surveillance? Things are moving far too fast now to play games. If you have the info and are going to release it then release it.I thought the point was that no one including Glen Greenwald has a right to hide this info from us. It makes no difference to the victims of this Nazi filth if you have our names but don’t tell us we are on the list.If that is the case then you are simply acting as a collaborator with the spy agencies. Give us the names or slink away in shame. Stop playing these BS teaser games. Thanks
Superb work! Thank you to The Intercept, Glenn Greenwald and the team.
American University, that hotbed of radical insurrection! My lawyer friend who got minted there doesn’t even believe in god.
Ben Witless chimes in with diversion.
https://twitter.com/BradMossEsq/status/486881172652584960
@Tortmaster 09 Jul 2014 at 1:53 am
When conspiracy theorists start quoting other conspiracy theorists, we have finally sharked the jump. I mean, ” … that some of them have succeeded in infiltrating the Pentagon, and that CIA director John Brennan is a secret Muslim.”
The fact that we have people who hold such beliefs working in our intelligence agencies doesn’t concern you? It ought to considering the amount of power they wield over you and the rest of us.
except that the scrutiny was terminated in 2008 (or earlier), which kinda shows that the program worked.
Your apparent lack of critical reading skills allowed you to gloss right over the gentlemen whose scrutiny was sustained in 2008. Convenient. While Mr. Awad and Mr. Gill did have their surveillance terminated in 2008, those of Mr. Ghafoor, Mr. Saeed and Mr. Amirahmadi were sustained. Would you care to address that?
Also, there was this very relevant statement in the article:
Ex post facto legislation erasing the Fourth Amendment should be something that alarms everyone. Unfortunately, there exists a breed of authoritarian lapdogs who are quite content to bark about the “legality” of these actions, while proudly sporting blinders against the evidence that the government has busily and effectively erased almost all avenue of recourse within the courts system for those who have been violated by their conduct and who still respect and hold dear the rights afforded them as citizens by the Constitution.
That left TheIntercept to invade the privacy of these gentlemen, outing them to the public.
This comment echoes a meme that is now making the rounds amongst the Brookings Types, to wit; that Greenwald/Snowden et al are the ones who are the “true privacy violators”. Setting aside the upside/down, inside/out, Alice-in-Wonderland nature of such shilling, one wonders that there are so many people in the world who truly do not understand the concept of “informed consent” and how it has been applied by the authors of this story toward their subjects…..and not applied at all by the US government toward the society it is supposed to serve.
This is a perfect example of why Glenn Greenwald cannot be trusted. Besides speaking for CAIR he leaves out quite a bit of details on his friend Nihad Awad when profiling him and CAIR. Some of the more interesting facts he bothers to leave out is that even before CAIR existed his friend Awad attended a three day HAMAS conference in Philadelphia in 1993 where they discussed forming CAIR as a HAMAS front group in the US. When asked about his attendance at the conference during a deposition he claimed he did not attend. Unfortunately for him the FBI has him on video attending the conference and discussing the need to form CAIR on a conference call prior to attending the HAMAS conference. http://www.investigativeproject.org/282/cair-executive-director-placed-at-hamas-meeting
He has also stated that he DOES SUPPORT HAMAS on video in 1994. http://www.investigativeproject.org/223/cairs-awad-in-support-of-the-hamas-movement
Glenn, his writings, his control of the Snowden content cannot and should not be trusted. It is very unfortunate that Glenn is just as corrupt as his peers in the mainsteam media.
What a constructive way to end your say. Before you even got started.
Answers the often repeated copy and paste allegations against CAIR:
http://www.cair.com/about-us/dispelling-rumors-about-cair.html
You claim the FBI had proof that Awad lied to them,…..and yet lying to the FBI is a felony, so why didn’t they arrest him? Maybe because you’re full of shit.
I sure hope there is more to come and that this is not the bombshell we’ve been told to expect. Spying on Muslims living in the US would be a given, no?
Something smells me IRS is caught up in this mess. What branch or agency have they NOT penetrated?
Spying on anyone based on their religion most certainly isn’t “a given.”
That’s the point.
Sorry the current story isn’t sexy enough for you. “Scandal” is available on Netflix if you’d prefer.
“Spying on anyone based on their religion most certainly isn’t ‘a given.'”
Well, if one is engaged in a religious war — which the “War on Terror” arguably is — then yes, it’s more or less a given.
It’s definitely not moral. Now, if what you’re saying is that the majority of those who aren’t Muslim won’t care, you’re right, of course. I expected that to be the case of anything Glenn was preparing to reveal.
Great story. Five prominent Muslim Americans who can all be found on Wikipedia were monitored. This story has taken over a year to be released whilst who knows what proportion of the planet’s population is being monitored and communication stored. After Edward Snowden’s carefully examined each file. The main concern seems to be that the surveillance state must not be inconvenienced in any way whilst doing its important work. All I can see is that the relevant authorities are plugging the gaps, technically and legally. Is there no other option to this ‘drip drip’ farce? Meanwhile, the drones fly and the people die with little sound from the populace. Anybody not ‘as thick as two short planks’ would not be surprised by this story. Who is having ‘The Great Debate’? As far as I can its ‘business as usual’ in national and international policy. I just despair……
Not only must the surveillance state not be inconvenienced, we must not interrupt the Nickels Kid plugging machine or the tech networks might fail.
We really need to get to the punclhine, Chinatown. That smart mouth little hoodie who own your face? He’s your uncle.
My god! Is this it? The final Bombshell that is going to change everything? Five Muslim US citizens – wow everyone out there who has been apathetic will surly get involved now!! As someone mentioned above if they were Israelis or just Jews supporting Israel in the US maybe something would happen – like the NYT mentioning it at all. Really, is there anyone out there who thought before the read this that Muslims living in the US are not being directly spied on?
If this is all The Intercept has to offer then there is not much reason to continue visiting the sight.
I had hoped there would be docs showing spying directly on all members of congress and other elected officials or something on that level, spying on Muslims living in the US is a given.
Otherwise occupied, icehole? I love the way you can count on your own not to give a shite about Liberty when it really means something to the contract holder. What’s funny about Occupy is it wells up like the Huns, amalgamated into a rolling thunder review. Then it fades away so folks have to wonder…was that me or you? We got no head to tear off and stuff down our throats Our faults!!
UK SOCA Report, still suppressed for the embarrassing facts it contains claimed that 80% of the illegal hackery performed by PIs for the UK was done on behalf of newspapers, and the other 80% was done for the other interests of wealthy men, banks, law firms and insurers. Most of the PIs used to work for the government. By hackery, I mean all means of illegal surveillance including going beyond Ripa standards, going through one’s garbage pail, paying off old contacts in government for data and terrorizing the family of policemen by following them while being suspected of an axe murder.
You are going to be so embarrassed when the massive jelly gets rolls in. How’s my English, GCHQ?
SO sorry, SOCE Report! 20 % of the illegal surveillance performed by privates was for newspapers leaving us 80% to wonder for whom…
Sounds very prudent on he part of the NSA. What’s the problem? Google is a vastly greater threat to privacy than the NSA. Greenwald has been whining about this for over a year without coming up with evidence of the NSA doing anything improper with the info they gather. Great job NSA!
I understand we must protect our Nation, however these cases sound like Nazi tactics used on inocent people. I dont like it.
Thanks MR’s Greenwald and ED SNOWDEN
You are both TRUE AMERICAN HERO’s!!!
FBI and NSA just part of government racketeering syndicate since 9/11/01 psyop
Read the spreadsheet. the responsible agency was the FBI in every case that Greenwald is getting excited about. This continued attack on NSA by Greenwald and Snowden looks more like an attack by a foreign intelligence agency everyday.
where is the full list you have been promising for months greenwald?
Good job! It is the proofs needed to open a case.
By the way, I remember one american woman that have her name in the black list due to similarity with muslim. She and family were detained and lose vacancy due to this illegal “arrest”.
This is utterly shameful. I wonder if I was taken off a surveillance list once my name changed from “Rahman” to “Mulligan” after marriage.
where is the full list you pussy? You didnt hype this for months to give us 5 friggen muslims
Three French hens and counting!
Who don’t you count as Americans so we can just leave them in the darkness, too? I’m a pussy, so frack you.
You don’t get what clears them clears you, too? Those who make way for Liberty are rather annoying historically, don’t you get that? Or was Larry Flint just your Guy next door?
Damn glad they were under surveillance. I hope they weren’t the only Muslims in America who were.
Awesome reporting Glen and team. Primary source evidence from your expert research is the smoking gun necessary to move the conversation forward. Thank you for all that you do.
People who don’t have a problem with the NSA targeting Muslims probably wouldn’t have had one with the SS targeting Jews, either.
You must watch Tomi Ungerer’s story of surviving the occupation of Alsace as a German speaking French kid during WWII. “Far Out is Not Far Enough” Not if you want to get away from human idiocies gone viral. If it can happen to your worst enemy, it can happen to you, especially when you are all three in one face.
http://www.fastcocreate.com/3016730/the-illustrated-man-artist-tomi-ungerer-takes-on-nazis-nudes-and-childrens-books#7
Especially painful was when his German occupation teacher told the class to draw a Jew as homework, and Tomi hadn’t a clue “what was a Jew.” So he asked his mother and she told him what the Germans wanted to see. It is painful for him to see his own work, but thank good he saved it for us to see. What evil can make a child do just to remain safe among monsters. Another reason he made snakes heros and pigs fly in his children’s books. He was a “pig” to French and German critics, both!
But now I have to break it to my bro that the novel he’s been ginning for years is just The Mellops go Flying on steroids. I can see flying pigs, but Indians, too? Nope, he must have read Tomi’s book before it was banned in 1964 by the bitchy libraians just because Tomi had the Gaul to draw awesome erotica, too. Best comeback in the world, you gotta hear it.
Indeed. Monitoring AIPAC, an organization that ostensibly represents a foreign power, and their members should be easy as Pi.
People who don’t have a problem with the targeting of Muslims by the NSA probably wouldn’t have had one with the SS targeting Jews, either.
It’s always refreshing to see high quality journalism. Wherever your convictions may lay, it seems clear that journalistic integrity is becoming and increasingly endangered concept. As is the perilous integrity of numerous court systems, both domestic and abroad, jurisprudence is now predicated on ‘perceived safety’ rather than the philosophic principles they were founded upon. Proportionality, consistency, and even procedural fairness seem to be lost in our generation. And this isn’t the sole problem of Supreme Court justices or FISA judges, but the people as well. Twitter infographics, mob mentality, and the regurgitation of whatever we consume have eradicated so much of the independent fact checking and rational thought that’s required for critical thinking. Unfortunately, most people won’t be surprised as to the FBI’s illegal surveillance, nor will they care about the civil rights being violated. Apathy, coupled with a complete disengagement of the political process, supersede all other evils in this situation. Nonetheless, this is a wonderful article. Great work!
In some way I can’t see the reason for all this tornado about NSA program to gather information on American citizens who happens to be Muslims. As far as I remember Muslims were those who perpetrated the terrorist attack on 9/11. Dr. King and his associated were closely monitored by FBI without breaking any law, just because he and his fellows were asking their rights to be respected and not segregated as second class citizens. The King’s guys never throw a bomb. Those who attack us here and abroad were and are Muslims. How separate one from the other? Hearing what they are saying and reading what they are writing.
Well, Mr. Contreras, I can’t see the reason for not having the NSA gather information on all American citizens who happen to be Hispanic. After all, Latin drug gangs like MS-13 and the Sinaloa Cartel are responsible for hundreds of deaths of American citizens in their squabbles over control of the illicit drug trade. How to separate one Hispanic from the other?
I can’t understand why folks are so angry with the Feds for failing to follow the guns. I thought the West resists anyone following their guns around, so why are they angry that surveillance flopped? Are they angry the operation was ever begun or do they want it replicated with every freaking gun on the market? I can’t figure out stupid people. If we are gonna get all suspicious and shite, I have to admit I don’t go south no more unattended, Senor. The people are lovely, but the criminals, oy, Chihuahua! I hate getting fleeced by those stoppers.
Why were those unskilled muslims granted fast track visas? Surely that is the question?
— “I just don’t know why,” says Gill —
Come on. You do know why. It’s profiling based on religious beliefs.
Is it, really? If our pols spend most of their day making money for re-election, you think they don’t post themselves on the latest bag to get a drop?
So, how does anyone find out if they are on the list? Those of us who have been working for justice for the Palestinians would really like to know
Good choices of disclosure of good standing Americans with litigation skills. We wish them well.
If I were on NSA’s target list then I would not want such public visibility. Too many crazies with guns running around looking for trouble.
“Crazies with guns”.
You do mean thousands of federal TLAs with their fancy, newly deputized SWAT teams, don’t you?
If not, I’d have to consider you a bigot and an ignoramus.
I have lost three of my brothers in USA because of their Muslims name from the BUSH administration officials. Including my self by infecting my blood, if my story is truth may our mighty GOD bring justice AMEN. Using my girlfriend for being rapist intimidate my employer to call me a thief . If law makers do not reviewed what happened from 2000 to 2008 The USA became weak by is own intelligence agencies.
Can anyone even begin to imagine the hysterical MSM reaction if the NSA monitored Jewish rather than Muslim Americans? In this case… maybe a little outrage but not so much.
How can be you so sure Jewish or Israeli individual are not on these lists? Guy this world has became so dangeorus that we have to have eyes open; they can”t catch us with pants on the knee like on 9/11.
This is beyond disgusting. Are these folks simply stepped upons? Those who’ve been in contact with those who’ve been in contact withs? I am more inclined to think folks are simply being intruded upon as much as is possible for the political advantage of the ball holder.
Whoa! Bill, tell Ted they can see us, now.
I just got out of this silo where I work at walking down the corn daily. I’ve been shut up init for several months, but look at all this corn I canned. You can keep the dwell time, dime busters.
Anyone else banned by this Milgram Society for spreading the merde around too freely? You really need some rules all up in this phonebooth, sir. Time to go.
How sad and thanks to these people for speaking out.
Did Grover Norquist’s friends in fundraising get caught in this net, too? I recall folks trying to tie him to their money troubles as if that means they are all terrorists. Why can’t these raging lug nuts who see “The Muslim Menace” everywhere nail down his wife’s national heritage? One claims she’s Kuwaiti, another Palestinian. It’s as if with all this snooping, they still rewrite the facts to their own preferred settings.
Of course, I found it hilarious he was abused by the fervents in his own bunker, until it dawned on me, man. Next, they’ll be calling me a tarrorist. Got a future?
I’m curious if TWF.ORG appears on the list. The Wisdom Fund, founded in 1995, is a nonprofit, tax-exempt, 501(c)(3) corporation registered in the Commonwealth of Virginia. We’v been far more critical of US government foreign affairs than any of the organizations listed in this article. In the early years, when we received more detailed statistics from our ISP, we saw that the CIA and FBI often visited our website.
What do you bet the IRS is deeply into this mess?
NSA’s got your granny’s estate tax forms? Well, do they?
Very comprehensive and outrageous. But, is there more? Is this what USdotgov requested you delay publishing?
Ben, can’t you smell the franks burning? This mess leaked into the IRS building.
Just reading my sizzling sausage swinger and the brauts say, “Go west, young hams.”
The following does not justify the illegal actions of the government. However, CAIR’s support for Islamist terrorism cannot be denied or ignored.
CAIR’s sympathy for terrorists, and its ties to them, are extensive, well-documented, and yes, they have resulted in charges (and convictions). In 2004, when CAIR tried to bully David Frum and the National Post, among others in Canada and the US, into ignoring this, Frum threw the stubborn facts back at them:
CAIR was founded in 1994 by alumni of an older group, the Islamic Association for Palestine. The IAP, founded by senior Hamas figure Mousa Mohammed Abu Marzook, calls for the destruction of Israel and the creation of an Islamic state under Islamic law in Israel’s place. (In 1996, CAIR would condemn the U.S. government’s decision to deport Marzook as an “anti-Islamic” act.)
CAIR’s first executive director, Nihad Awad, publicly declared himself a supporter of Hamas at a 1994 forum at Barry University in Florida.
One of CAIR’s original advisory board members, Siraj Wahhaj, served as a character witness for Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman. Rahman is the blind Egyptian cleric convicted in 1995 of conspiracy to bomb New York landmarks. CAIR described Rahman’s conviction as a hate crime.
CAIR’s founding chairman, Omar Ahmed, also an IAP alumnus, is said to have declared at a public event in California in July, 1998: “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran . . . should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth.” Ahmed has since disputed the accuracy of the quote–five years after it was reported by a California newspaper.
After the 9/11 attacks on the United States, CAIR’s Web site featured a link titled, “Donate to the NY/DC Disaster Relief Fund.” The link connected to the Web site of the Holy Land Foundation, a charity closed down by the United States three months later as a Hamas front…
Since 9/11, three CAIR associates in the U.S. have been indicted on terrorism-related charges.
In September, 2003, CAIR community relations director Bassem K. Khafagi, pleaded guilty on immigration and bank-fraud charges, in Detroit. Khafagi interestingly co-owned a print shop with another man who has since been charged with illegally sending goods into Iraq.
Randall Todd Royer, a communications specialist at CAIR’s Washington headquarters, pleaded guilty in January, 2004, to belonging to the Kashmiri Lashkar-i-Taibi terrorist group and illegally acquiring firearms and explosives in order to train for terrorist missions against India. He was sentenced to 20 years in prison.
A founding member of CAIR’s Texas chapter, Ghassen Elashi, was convicted of conspiracy and money-laundering charges in connection with the shipment of high-technology items to Syria and Libya in July, 2004.
To pretend that the case against CAIR begins and ends with its status as an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation case — the terrorism financing case Serwer refers to — is absurd. If we shouldn’t whitewash Peter King’s history of supporting terrorism — which I wrote about yesterday, as did Serwer — we certainly shouldn’t whitewash CAIR’s.
Speaking of the Irish…sorry, boys, but I had to get a good one in on this victim looking for an injury lawyer.
I love you, Tomi! Give your Alsace a couple of kisses for me!!
what i get from all this is that these organizations were mixed with the good and the otherwise not so good.
that was what led to EVERYONE being chased and investigated and monitored.
sort of like what is happening now in Gaza…a terrorist cell sets up a rocket launcher in
the middle of a city/urban neighborhood and the response from the other side is
a counterattack with hits without discriminating… you’re there? you get hit.
it’s not fair it’s not American but i happens.
“Said to have declared…”
“Founded by alumni of a group, which was founded by a guy who said…”
“Supported Hamas in 1994″…before embrace iof suicide attacks landed it on terrorism list three years later.
Seriously?
Jim Kress — I know virtually nothing about CAIR, but the above bill of particulars is, on its face, not very persuasive with respect to its alleged “support for Islamist terrorism.” A predecessor organization’s call for the destruction of Israel (hardly a unique sentiment in the Arab/Islamic world)? An individual’s conviction on “immigration and bank fraud” charges? Three CAIR “associates” (whatever that means) since 9/11 “indicted” (but presumably not convicted) on “terrorism-related” (whatever that means) charges? A disputed quotation about how Islam rules? An individual’s conviction for “conspiracy and money laundering” involving unidentified “high-technology” items? Most of this stuff is pretty weak sauce, long on innuendo and short on specific facts and defined terms. I’m no more frightened of CAIR than I was before reading your parade of horrors.
I tried to post a response to Jim Kress but it failed to appear; perhaps it will show up later. Shorter me: I don’t know jack shit about CAIR, but your list consists almost entirely of innuendo that has little or nothing to to do with supporting terrorism. I’m sometimes excoriated in the left blogosphere as a shill for Zionist apartheid, and even I found your post utterly unpersuasive.
Answers the often repeated copy and paste allegations against CAIR:
http://www.cair.com/about-us/dispelling-rumors-about-cair.html
Welcome to the internet. What makes it kind of special are those things called hyperlinks. If you’re unfamiliar with the technology, you can post the full URL. Regrettably, I find your comment sufficiently without substance/support that I’m unwilling to take the time to Google.
Note to Gator: Whether by design, or not, it’s my experience that it can take quite a while for comments to display from their time of submission. Also, in my experience, they all do display, eventually.
The Jim Kress comment — which I suspect he will not be returning to defend — pissed me off enough that I wasn’t willing to wait around and see.
I did a search on it hours ago and found that it has been around, pretty much verbatim just as what you how it was posted here, since at least 2004, repeated over and over and over again with all of the exact (verbatim) innuendos and 3rd removed on one after another website such as Little Green Footballs, American Spectator, Frontpagemag and so on and on.
Good work … I can only wonder what Barack Hussein Obama thinks about the USG spying on American folks with foreign-sounding names. (note. none of these guys have a rag on their head … and one is an atheist!)
*Probably not much; President Obama, the NYT is reporting this morning, had no clue a young BND employee had been arrested for selling state secrets to the CIA when he called Merkel yesterday. … and was not in the loop.
How can be you so sure Jewish or Israeli individual are not on these lists? Guy this world has became so dangeorus that we have to have eyes open; they can”t catch us with pants on the knee like on 9/11.
Because those guys are the “good” terrorists. Don’t you know your good guys from your bad guys? Good guys are not the ones the lists are meant for. The lists are for the bad guys, the ones who don’t agree with UKUSA/Israeli/Saudi hegemony for the Middle East.
As for 9/11 – some people believe those “good” terrorists are the real culprits behind that horrific event.
when will u publish the full list?
The journalists would have to contact the individuals for more information and to get permission to use their real names. For a lot of innocent people, publication of their names could be damaging. For example, potential employers do use Google searches on candidates.
oh yea, that guy shaking bush’s hand is definitely a terrorist…. lol. did you get that memo from the FBI he asks? prior to 9/11 lol
I would like more information. I had a qui tam lawsuit against several large government contractors during the relevant period that the Department of Justice declined to join. Were they intercepting my attorney client communications as we suspected at the time?
Stepped upon people have a right to know.
Does this mean folks have standing, now, since the government has been shown to be cutting our legs out from under us?
Quite possibly. See the ACLU v. Clapper lawsuit (linked below) and also the Amnesty v. Clapper lawsuit referenced in the NYCLU (dot) org website.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130611/18152123415/aclu-sues-government-its-own-behalf-as-verizon-customer-arguing-4th-amendment-violations.shtml
See also http://www.nyclu.org/case/amnesty-v-clapper-challenging-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008
If the Government side in a qui tam case had access to the Plaintiff’s attorneys’ communications, it could cause problems for their case, at least in a procedural issue.
After 911 I can see why some people were watched…Part of living in America. “I have long viewed this as one of the most important stories in the Snowden archive because it puts a face on the NSA’s surveillance overreach and illustrates, yet again – that domestic spying abuses usually target minorities, marginalized groups, and dissidents,” Greenwald told HuffPost. Well tell these groups to follow our beliefs or live in the country you so badly want to represent the beliefs of.
quote”Well tell these groups to follow our beliefs or live in the country you so badly want to represent the beliefs of.”unquote
I’ll file that as the dumbest statement ever to appear on the internet.
Why is the KKK so active in America?
So what specific political and religious beliefs are non-whites required to have? By your own logic you should be moving to a country without freedom of speech or religion.
“…There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged!…The war is actually begun!…Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle?…Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased by chains and slavery?…”
Anyone think the Congress is flirting with calamity? Feinstein’s handing out get out of jail sweep cards to her collaborators, “…Forbid it, Almighty God!”
“…We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves…There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free…we must fight!…”
Stupid NSA…WE ARE THE HAY!!
So what say we all take a three month Van Winkle, and when we wake up, we’d better be American again, or face can go goog itself.
Beam me up, Patrick Henry. Any good books to recommend?
how does one find out if ones name is on the surveillance list? thru wikileaks?
Well, the Met couldn’t find the time to go through a sack of NewsUK’s 5000 plus hacking victims in 2005 at the same time GCHQ’s hacking was entirely illegal, too. They still claim they didn’t want to defame anyone, but I think they must have meant the guys they like to listen to others Talk Talk through. The Telephonies. You don’t think facebud is really that smart, do you? He just owns the pipe.
I know one damn thing, my name is on wkikileaks. Most likely some asshole journalists did a FOIA on me at the State Department. Will it also be on the lists?
In order to obtain search (not FISA) warrants from a federal judge on the FISA Court, NSA provided probable cause that these men are engaged in criminal (not political) activity.
Congratulations Glenn, you have now blown five criminal investigations.
Congratulations Bart, you have now proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that excrement can formulate a sentence.
Oh, boy. Old home week. Is this the *real* and notorious Bart DePalma of Glenn’s UT days? Where is Arne Langstemo and Frankly, My Dear… when we need them? With your comment as evidence, you’re every bit the idiot I was given to believe you were. Or, …. you’re an exceptionally astute imposter of the real Bart DePalma.
He’s Bart DePalma who describes himself – Attorney, author, soldier, spy. Author of Never Allow A Crisis To Go To Waste – https://twitter.com/bartdepalma
So, YOU think that the NSA provided probable cause? If you know that for sure, then YOU have blown the investigations.
That doesn’t begin to balance the parallel fabrications of FBI and DEA.
Commendable work.
I would though, add my name to the list who don’t see the sky ‘covered in spectacular multicoloured hues’. There is much comparison made between the revelations here and those that emerged around the COINTELPRO programs. It doesn’t seem to me to be a useful comparison; the article here shows essentially a McCarthy-like paranoid conspiracist mindset at work, focused on people who are no threat to the establishment. Conversely, COINTELPRO was the use of political warfare techniques against significant movements of dissenters throughout the US, who very much wanted to change the fundamentals of modern Western society, and demote or disrupt the power of established institutions.
I for one was hoping for further evidence to support the assertion made in NPTH that the US intelligence agencies still devote much of their resources toward the neutering of effective challenges to the corporate-state system of power, and that this is the over-arching goal of the NSA programs (or indeed of any mass surveillance system).
Maybe that evidence wasn’t in the Snowden docs? Maybe this is a limited hangout? Maybe the ‘finale’ will come from Cryptome?
I appreciate why you want a victim from another column, but this simply means EVERYONE is vulnerable to the same abuses. Angela Merkle isn’t puff pastry Christian enough for you? Or too foreign to concern US? Think globally, not yocally.
It is tragic knowing the freaks who hunt secret Muslims now have a platform to fart from, but this is culture war and the peepers will not prevail. Someone’s Eyes are gonna get poked.
Too many pols have abused the system for their own gains. I thought someone should look into those fairy ring 501(c) thangs blooming and dying off all over my desert storms in 2010 after TEa Crackers got voted in. I didn’t care who was making them, I just wanted to know why well funded social cause promotions never left any signs of life behind. But I never suggested a culling of the characters of such tax free causes. Mamma just likes her bag full of coins, the better to swing it.
I’m pretty sure we’ve spied on some white knight’s burger stand. We aren’t THAT discriminating. But, there’s this movement called Occupy, and I just was told it is a concern of governments around the world, like China’s King Kong, and how about that Indonesian Obamaman thang?. Yo HOOO! Hayboys be pitching hayfits! My first cat’s name was Hayboy, the Siamese plant.
This needs to be a global cause, ’cause these iceholes are handing out immunity clauses to one another like there’s a virus out there that can REALLY kill off a market. I’m not buying it until it’s free. No tech, no fracking way. Say, what’s this hub bub about solar? Maybe I should just buy my own Sun?
I have no problem with them spying on these individuals. It’s called “intelligence gathering” – and if we don’t do it – on all the Muslims in this country we will regret it. We have thousands of terrorists in this country – the cells were put in place pre 9/11 and we have no reason to believe they have been dismantled. Yes, they are islamic radicals but we don’t know who supports them and who doesn’t. NOT reading their emails would be so stupid and negligent on our part. We live in a different world now and if you are a Muslim and don’t like it – leave
Replace the word “Muslims” in your comment with “Irish Catholics”, and “islamic radicals” with “IRA radicals”, and decide if you agree with the resulting email. If not, why not?
Thanks for swinging that. I was gonna take a punch and lose my drinking rights.
Why aren’t you that gung-ho on the coo-coo cluckin’ clan???
“Yes, they are islamic radicals but we don’t know who supports them and who doesn’t..”
=================
You’re free to offer evidence of “radicalism” at any time.
Or you can simply stop lying. Your choice, really.
Thousands of terrorists, huh; care to elaborate how you came up with such a matter of fact number without a bit of insight of your own?
first i would love to see some proof of that, did some big important people from the government come down and demand they be let in the country like some of the 19 or did something else happen?
LOSS OF CREDIBILITY…..A professional doesn’t ask questions because he didn’t know? ““Knowing that, I would specifically ask the Justice Department: How many American citizens are there active FISAs on now?” he says. “And without naming names, tell me what categories they fall into—how many are counterterrorism, counterintelligence, espionage cases? ” Seems like BS for Richard Clarke to have not asked that question and then go on the talk shows and say everything is just fine.
They’ve all been arrested, then? What are the charges? Where are they being held?
I believe that I am on the list being spied on, and would like to know if I am correct. How do I find the truth?
Sadly, this is no surprise. Furthermore, Americans really will not pay mind to it because of the brainwashing after 9/11 that many still cling too today. If you told them that God or His son was being monitored and then yeah, he or she would be protesting in the streets about it. Those idiots will not see before their eyes of what is happening, BUT he or she will believe in something that cannot be seen or proven. This perception of the radical wing is what is beamed around the world; whereas, the majority of Americans do not war, their oil, to have them practice our failed democracy, or interfere with their religious beliefs. The majority of us do realize and want peace; however, the will for dissent, change and protest is losing and the NSA and US Gov’t KNOWS this. Bush 43/Cheney has done more harm to America around the world and now Obama is finishing up the domestic side of it all.
um. this surveillance stopped in 2008. Barack Obama was sworn in in 2009.
Can the ACLU now Then Challenge the Constitutionality of this, now they can show people have grounds to sue? Can they Get an Immediate Stay from Fed Court to Stop this Type of Surveillance?
They at least will not be thrown out of court on “standing” grounds, as they have been repeatedly every time they tried to sue on behalf of people claiming the surveillance was illegal and unconstitutional (including last year, in the Supreme Court). http://boingboing.net/2013/02/27/supreme-court-turns-down-aclu.html
With respect to the time between the crime and discovery, is there a statute of limitations that can be invoked?
Safe travels..
It’s more a question between the discovery and when the victim files. And in some cases they may have had litigation; the al-Haramain lawsuit in Federal court in Oregon is a matter of record and could be re-opened in the light of new evidence. And Glenn is right: now at least somebody has standing to sue because now they can show they were spied on, without the gov’t suppressing all evidence on grounds of national security. Gets them in the courthouse door, at least.
“They at least will not be thrown out of court on “standing” grounds,”–GG
Also, according to Marcy Wheeler:
“Awad’s organization, CAIR, is a named plaintiff in the EFF’s suit challenging the phone dragnet. They are suing about the constitutionality of a program that — the EFF suit also happens to allege — illegally mapped out associational relations that should be protected by the Constitution.
CAIR now has very good reason to believe their allegations in the suit — that all their relationships have been mapped — are absolutely correct.”
So, we’re out of the woods, but haven’t made it to the Emerald City’s door, yet. Beware the poppies, boys.
Squeak, I’m a mouse. You can offer me all the pot in paradise, no dice on delaying Liberty.
Tell me if your furry King needs a carrying. I know he’s The Law in disguise much like Henry the 5th. Long live the Law on St. Crispies Day!
Finally, a victory to rest our laurels upon. Now tell us why you want to help a dirty bugger hack away at the Constitution, SCOTUS…
Or DO they? Will we finally have our day? The dope without all those dirty narcs hanging around?
ACLU has been suing since the beginning on this. See, just for their New York affiliate alone, this list: http://www.nyclu.org/issues/liberty-and-security/cases.
How do I find out if I was on this spreadsheet?
Hi Aamir,
I’d like to know that too, so if you find out send me the info. I’m strictly small time, but I know two of the people on this list. So let me know what you discover.
I’m at interfaithfreedom@global.net. Lawrence Swaim, Interfaith Freedom Foundation.
By email address, apparently. Just look for the Dos Equis, Most Interesting Man in the World.
But wait a minute… at 34 minutes Nihad Awad says he is a supporter of the Hamas movement… and you are wondering why he is on a FISC approved list? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E8_owx8qeE Did the reporters on your team not do their due diligence?
are you kidding, the article does mention this and elaborates that his support was voiced before Hamas was involved in or accused of violent terrorism, and explicitly adds that he withdrew support when Hamas began to do such things. Apparently you can watch the video but are unable to read the article, which you should do before accusing the authors of not doing due diligence (I’ve never seen such diligent reporting)
These are what Greenwald considers the most sympathetic so now I’m not even concerned. I thought Mitt Romney, Rand Paul, or Ralph Nader might be on the list, or maybe my neighbor or me. Instead it is a bunch of Islamist supporters and infiltrators.
Hamas is a democratically elected government…what you’d call/assume to be terrorism, they’d call resistance.
exactly. this story is shameful, and not for the reasons the reporters seem to think.
among other things, it appears to show that most or all of this surveillance was terminated in 2008, and clearly no actions were taken against these individuals. So, they followed a lead, it didn’t pan out, and they did nothing. that is news? esp. knowing that he will never and can never report what those leads were?
it is news that law enforcement and military follow leads on apparently innocent people and they don’t pan out?
this is jingoism of the highest order–Anti-American jingoism. there is no story here at all–in fact, it looks more like NSA & FBI are doing the jobs we have ordered and require them to do, the way they have to do it. as someone says below, this is far less shocking and important than FBI surveillance of Compton or Occupy.
After the gathering at Cliven Bundy’s ranch, how diligent are the FBI about white, CHRISTIAN terrorists?
Don’t forget your common class of clobbered do gooders like USDA’s Henry Marshall and his investigation into a donor of LBJ’s who went to jail for plenty of contract fraud, but not for having Marshall shot. The sheriff claimed he shot himself twice in the back with his rifle, an unquestionable form of suicide commonly known to sheriffs in Billie’s Sol Estes headlights. His accountant stoved in his own head with a rock. I wasn’t shocked. Remember Marshall, the family won’t forget.
I suggest we have a whole Life Raft of victim classes afloat in this turd filled sea. If you could know anything, what would that be?
The good the bad and the ugly, get them all this is America land of the free. I mean free to be spied on. This is crazy working with local police so the NSA can pull data off your phones diving down you street, the TSA making us turn on our phones at the airports, reading our email except for Lois Learners, Looking at all our searches on the internet. Building a gigantic facility in Utah for recreation. The Soviet Union would still be in power if they had all this technology. Us http://LookSeek.com the non tracking leave me alone search engine. Oh and the drones watching and listening to everything we do.
Glenn, is this now the end of the fireworks display or were non-Muslim politicians, activists, and US government employees also targeted?
Ok this was a disappointment and seems to be fluffed up slightly in favor of the government this doesn’t talk about the stuff they are doing to normal people which is far worse.
Right “normal people”: as opposed to Muslim Americans.
I think dom is referring to working class Americans. Those with no political ties to government.
http://www.prismfighters.com/
Except Hooshang Amirahmadi isn’t Muslim, as you clearly state in the article: ‘Amirahmadi, who does not self-identify as a Muslim and describes himself as an atheist.’
So why is he described as such by you in this comment, and in the article? ‘Even if the government obtained FISA warrants to monitor some or all of the five Muslim-Americans…’
‘Amirahmadi, who does not self-identify as a Muslim and describes himself as an atheist.’
So why is he described as such by you in this comment, and in the article?
Because the government, and a goodly number of the general population, don’t/won’t give a shit about how he “self-identifies”. The only thing that matters is how they perceive him. And that applies to everyone upon whom they turn their basilisk eye.
Amazing how quickly you attribute racism to people. Was that response loaded and sitting in your holster, Glenn, or does it just really seem like it? You used to rail against that mess — you know when people had no argument except to point and yell “racist,” you would point that out. Oh well, you also used to disagree with the White House’s definition of “imminent,” but you adopted it to describe this story’s publication, like two weeks ago.
I loved the debate with Hayden — truly extraordinary. Just wanted to say that before I jumped off the bandwagon I got on when you started at Salon. I enjoyed it, but nothing good lasts forever. Good luck drawing out the Intercept’s failure as long as you can.
They are doing far worse than reading emails of average citizens. At least these people may have a day in court
To those responding that this story is “unsurprising” or that few will be outraged…ask yourself, why is that?
The parallels between this and COINTELPRO during the 1960s and 70s are perfect. It is always genuinely disenfranchised and hated groups that the government targets. I’m sure there were quite a few people who responded by saying that “of course” the government spied on and threatened MLK and members of the Black Panthers.
AND the FBI turned its back and allowed the assassination of Martin Luther King to be accomplished.
More like they committed that crime – there is a great deal of non-publicized evidence they were involved. Check out why the King family did not believe that James Earl Ray assassinated MLK. The evidence that has remained available, but unmentioned by the complicit press, is far more convincing than the evidence against Ray.
it don’t matter no more.
It never did.
It never mattered that much that we would think it would.
I T never mattered that much that we thought it could.
It doesn’t matter that much now that it should.
It doesn’t matter that much that should be should..
And long lines with long names are kept in should,
No, No big science , and yet it should.
Be said in quiet time in bed
So say those those that said.
And so be those that are misled.
Great post tom.
Nailed it!
Now that it is proven that innocent Americans are targeted, what happens to all the people who lied about it. Does Obama lying on Jay Leno to the American people mean anything or does it just bring his credibility down. This is completely indefensible, a complete breakdown of peoples rights. Can these men sue the government? Can anyone be charged for breaking the law? Now that there is undeniable proof that laws have been broken who is taken to task for it? Lots of questions need answering.
Um clearly you did not read the article…this occured under the Bush adminsistration…probably the least horrible thing which that adminsistration did. I agree so many questions need answering…and Obama let the entire Bush adminstration off the hook.
He lied on Jay Leno when he said they weren’t listening to or storing information on Americans, he must of know they were. How could they let him make that statement knowing this. It was a lie.
I am fucking jimmy.
No shit but shit is going down here at the Intercept.
My account has been hijacked so fuck to the security regime at the Intercept.
`Jammer-san..
Twas stoked to be made privy of sharing the revered Cooliogatta mist. (..surfabout a few years sans)
Cheers to you and yours, mi amigo..
dongerneedshoalhavenheads
Knock Knock. Who’s there? FBI and Homeland Security. O boy, was I proud that day. And if they haven’t knocked on your door, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Am struggling to formulate a coherent response to this article. The sheer ignorance and bigotry underpinning the rationale of someone like Guandolo is breathtaking. And to think that he is able to launch and maintain a career within various government departments with these views is scandalous. Major Kudos to these guys for their willingness to be “outed” and to talk about their experiences and take on this. Sadly, I don’t think many in the US will be emotionally affected or outraged by this until the targets are white.
I have to confess I feel quite nauseated by this.
When they break any of the rules, white people are targeted and punished: Snowden, Kiriakou, Binny, Drake, Lynne Stewart…
And when they DON’T break any of the rules, brown people are targeted, sometimes also punished: See above.
That is her (somewhat incoherent) point. Inequality before the law, writ large and on display here, for our viewing pleasure.
The entire occupy movement was under surveillance. It’s one big internment camp .
:-D
and Keith Alexander…
ActivistGal — “Sadly, I don’t think many in the U.S. will be emotionally affected or outraged by this until the targets are white.” Because…?
They won’t care that some of the most fundamental rights and civil liberties of minority groups are being violated until it happens to them personally. Look at the lack of outrage in response to the killing of US citizens by drones (notably al-awlaki and his 16 year old son), despite no charges of wrongdoing being brought against them and despite the fact that they were not afforded any semblance of a trial by a judge and jury of their peers. Glenn actually wrote quite a powerful piece on this in the Graun over a year ago: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/mar/25/racism-war-on-terror-awlaki
I must confess to being rather disappointed with these revelations, as significant as they are. Given what they speak for, I would have hoped that, en masse, Roman Catholic priests, ultra-orthodox rabbis, Zionist radicals, Irish Republican Army sympathizers, evangelical Christians (e.g., Dubya Bush & Co.), Klu Klux Klan members, and die-hard advocates of the British monarchy would also have been subject to such US surveillance. Given the incipient totalitarianism by now confronting future generations, this is hardly fair play — and hardly the American way.
rather disappointed with these revelations
Yesc there is much more Glenn could have described.
I am james fingleton wild .
I am tom brown’s schooled daze.
It is clear that some one has hacked my account. \Please Intercept do not alow this to continue.
British monarchy supporters? Are they still present in United States?
Your points are valid but who’s going to listen. The rest of the world believes that Americans =Zionists.
You see clearly de Gallles, tis hardly the american way.
You see clearly de Gallles
Though I hold this man highly
Look there is a false play about and it considerns James Fingleton wild.
Dear Fingo rellies, mates all –
Please note the following details for the book launch –
Place: The Community Room, Margaret Whitlam Recreation Centre, Waverley Park, Bondi Junction, Sydney
Date and time: Saturday 16 August, from 2-6pm.
The cordial invitation follows soon.
All the best –
Jim
Dr Jim Fingleton
309 Bryces Road
FAR MEADOW
NSW 2535
02 44642185
Well shucks, gee, thanks for all the attention to my posting. But quite a bit of what you have to say strikes me as pretty much borderline, to be honest; and I do have reason to believe that none of the onus for this incoherence, as perceived, should be attributed to any lack of decryption skills on my part. What, too much schooling induces a lifelong daze? Surely that can’t be true for all.
This is totally the American way.
I took it for granted that the entire Muslim-American population was being subjected to an electronic internment camp. Technology makes it so much easier than it was in Roosevelt’s day.
That this is your blockbuster report, that this is your Fourth of July fireworks display, and that this is the best Greenwald-authored piece about the NSA, I have no doubt. I give credit for the latter to Murtaza Hussain. Saying that, I would still note that Pre-Conspiracy Theorists quoting Conspiracy Theorists evidences the fact that we have jumped the snark. I mean, ” … that some of them have succeeded in infiltrating the Pentagon, and that CIA director John Brennan is a secret Muslim.” Why? Why even report what crazy people have to say? It is news that there were bigots in the Bush Administration? I’m willing to bet there were bigots in the Bush household–just very careful bigots. This is your blockbuster, though, even if the surveillance of these individuals seems to have terminated sometime in 2008, making it six-year-old news, even though new procedures were put in place since then, even though President Obama empaneled the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board that Bush had the right to empanel, but never had the time to do it, even though you have admittedly no idea if there was cause to surveil these folks, and even though the Bush NSA got it right, somehow, investigating for an undisclosed reason, finding no problems and terminating their investigations. Yes, this is by far your most important story.
I have not forgotten how carried away the FBI got with investigations of politically active people including Martin Luther King, for whom we now have a holiday. In fact it has long been thought that J. Edgar Hoover kept his job as FBI director not as a competent, non-partisan professional appointee, but because he used the FBI to gather dirt on politicians who thus became afraid to cross him. I had until this thought the FBI had matured as an institution until learning of this. Clearly these individuals were targeted as a fishing expedition hoping to discover some terrorists contacting them whether or not they replied individually or with an automated acknowledgement. Because of their roles in society and politics these are just the source of people terrorists might seek to either convert or learn from or in some cases seek to do harm against.
On the other hand I have always assume all communications could be monitored by lots of people. That thought first occurred to me when wireless handset telephones came out and included no encryption of phone call signals and now even 128 bit encryption may not be enough. The technological truth though is that anyone can be monitored by anyone technically competent with the right equipment with truly tiny video cameras and even smaller wireless sound pickup equipment. They can also be made to not transmit 99% of the time and do burst transmissions of data just 1% of the time to make them harder to detect. I even bought a fiber optic plumbing tool that most likely can be misused to spy under a door even though its purpose is to inspect the inside of toilets, drains and sewers for debris and it wasn’t even expensive t9 get yet when I closed my hand around it is still effectively showed my finger prints.. True privacy has long been dead I am afraid, a victim of low cost spy suitable technology. NSA spying is just more convenient for the investigators without adding much else but economy.
Excellent work by highly professional journalists, excellent work by Snowden, who was clearly carefully selective in choosing his evidence, contrary to the exaggerated responses put about by the government and intelligence officials. So far no evidence of any deception by Snowden and plenty of evidence of outright lying and misrepresentation by those who should by now know better.
I am pretty sure the same sort of thing must be going on here in the UK; it would be great if Snowden had given you any evidence that might stop Theresa May and Cameron in their tracks, before they manage to get law passed that will make Britain even more of a surveillance, police, and censorship state than it already is. Don’t forget us non-US-pers!
Anyway, keep up the good work, and I only hope that for heaven’s sake it has some effect, although given that both the US and the UK political establishments seem to be some way right of Genghis Khan, it will be a struggle.
It’s useless, personalizing civics. It speaks to a small minority, the “civic minded”.
In 2012, every movement in the city of Compton was spied on like it was fucking Fallujah.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/04/sheriffs-deputy-compares-drone-surveillance-of-compton-to-big-brother/360954/
And hardly anyone gave a shit because most Americans know they ain’t “them”. There’s no sense of being “next”. You need a “we” for that.
http://prospect.org/article/want-predict-future-surveillance-ask-poor-communities
Bro where are my comments
If they don’t like them they don’t get put up !
Is that document with the emails available for download?
thanks Glenn and Maz~fabulous! and well worth the wait! This will, dare I say, rock the socks off quiet a few people. And it should. Terrible racial profiling and totally unjust. Like Corbin says they seem like guys who would be in the local chamber of commerce. As usual, spectacular reporting.
Is it not strange that the only posts of mine published are the strange and emotionally strong ones/
I ask again for the fith time what about the non Muslim activists?
Will this post get published here at USG central.
Were these individuals placed under surveillance through a legal process consistent with the 4th Amendment or not? Seems a little foggy to me, despite the implications about them being targeted only because they are Muslims.
certainly these people were targeted because of their last name, i thought j edgar hoover was dead, guess not,
Most likely yes, if you count the current FISA procedure as consistent with the 4th amendment. (I probably wouldn’t) The major issue is that the FISC is clearly approving this surveillance in ways that should violate their own rules – even the lower standard of probable cause that the FISC apparently requires shouldn’t have been met for any of these individuals. (especially since any suspicion seems to be due to protected activities – representing a suspicious client or speaking about widely held political beliefs is not an indication of radicalism or imminent violent action)
Do you have anyone from Minnesota on that list?
So it comes to this.
I have tried as a free agent to write comments here at the Intercept.
I have been blocked..
I now believe Glenn Greenwald to be a player for the Playees.
That any thing I wish to put forward on this article has been placed in the garage, is the outstanding feature of the intercept’s quasi existence.
You have all been taken for a ride on Glenns meme.
Put stars by it is a fuck wit but she has it right on Glenn.
You are a nutcase.
Cheers.
Five posts blocked and I am the nut case.
Go forth and prosper.
Your posts have not been blocked. They are littered all over the damn place. This place isn’t set up for comments in the same way that the Guardian is, so presumably there is a delay between when you post a comment and when it is actually published because someone has to manually go through them all to ensure no SPAM bots get to post. (I extend my deepest sympathies to that person for having to read tombrown’s schooleddaze’s nonsense. )
Where are there, if what you say is true.
Where are there?
Delay in post?
For god’s sake what do you mean?
I post and the intercept does not post.
The game is what the intercept plays.
You are all only a fragment of the times.
My posts have been blocked.
So go and fuck yourself .
I now get 503 posting when I try to mpublish.
Hells bells this is the end.
Something strange going on.
tombrown’s schooleddaze’
09 Jul 2014 at 3:46 am
Where are there, if what you say is true.
Where are there?
Delay in post?
For god’s sake what do you mean?
I post and the intercept does not post.
The game is what the intercept plays.
You are all only a fragment of the times.
tombrown’s schooleddaze’
09 Jul 2014 at 4:04 am
My posts have been blocked.
So go and fuck yourself .
I now get 503 posting when I try to mpublish.
Hells bells this is the end.
I did not post these comments.
Someboby has gragged my account and is posting under my account,
Shit is happening here don’t you know.
Such an easy description, a nutcase.
What do you ‘a Californian liberal’ know about “nut cases”.
Do you know that at the age of 16 teen i was ritualistically satanically sexually abused?
Do you know that oh libertarian.
No you don’t know but you you speak as if you do know.
I have suffered PTSD since I was 16. I do not sleep, I have anxiety and depression a plenty.
Now tell me again I am a nut case for suffering sexually abuse.
The Royal Commission in Australia is presently dealing with The Marist Brothers and in particular Br Turton. It was Br Turton I gave my evidence to.
Look and see who Turton is.
Look and see who I am.
So just shut up. No one wants to read your shit on here.
The Intercept refuses to publish my posts.
So you can speak for all, oh Liberal Californian one.
So grateful for your ability to encompass all in your decree.
So thankful for your generosity and bon homme.
You don’t know me or the things you say you know.
You are a fake.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/therapy-need-sent-abuser-abroad-marists/story-fn3dxiwe-1226959093029?nk=d22004a8e42b4f72747b9093fb4f3a2f
Therapy need sent abuser abroad: Marists
By Annette Blackwell
AAP
June 30, 2014 11:54AM
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THE former head of the Marist brothers in Australia has denied he made a hasty decision to put a prolific child sex abuser on a plane to Canada three days after it became known police were investigating him.
ALTHOUGH he knew the brother had confessed to molesting a boy who later committed suicide, Brother Alexis Turton, the order’s provincial in 1989, thought it best to get Gregory Sutton therapy at a Canadian centre for priest sex offenders.
He denied repeatedly at a child sex abuse royal commission hearing in Canberra on Wednesday that he sent Sutton to the Southdown centre near Toronto because police had begun asking questions.
Sutton was extradited from Canada and jailed for 12 years in 1996 after pleading guilty to multiple charges of assaulting children in schools in NSW, ACT and Queensland from 1975 to 1986.
He had quit the Marists in 1991 and Br Turton said he lost track of him after that.
Br Turton said he sent Sutton to Canada because treatments in Australia had not worked.
Yeah tell me about nutcsaeses
Ding! Always have your eyes open
I have to agree with OuijaForestCat. The number of Americans who are going to care that five Muslim-Americans of good standing were spied on by the NSA will be counted on one hand. Now, if these guys were all Jewish-Americans, there would be a torrential outpouring of angst on the part of everyone.
I have to say that if this was the “big last reveal” of the Snowden docs, it’s going to fizzle pretty badly. It does prove that NSA surveillance targets US citizens of good standing, thus disproving all the NSA defenders’ arguments about “terrorism”. But it would have been much more effective if Ron Paul, Bill Gates or Scarlett Johansson were on the list…people the US public have not been brainwashed into thinking are automatically “enemies of the state.”
Who’s to say that these five are the only examples? I imagine there may be many more examples, and there’s no reason to presume that absence of proof is proof of absence. The only way to know how deep the NSA’s violations run is for Congress to finally pursue the independent investigation it has failed to do for the last 40 years. The last time our elected leaders bothered to look, they found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhqgq1wITTg
You have a steriotypical mindset regarding what is American. Americans are descendents of immigrants! To the core. Including Muslim Americans.
If you cared to read through the article, you will see just how significant these Muslims-Americans are. By both association with current leadership and by volumes of support.
Did you read on the offices some have worked for? GOP?
Did you read on association with powerful people in the Democrats?
Did you read on the highest level of trust bestowed upon them?
Did you read on…
The number of people they represent that can influence direction of policy?:
Citation:
He founded the American Muslim Alliance, which The New York Times described in October 2001 as “the main organization devoted to the political assimilation of the nation’s seven million Arab-Americans.”
The selective surveillance this reveals, despite equivalent(if not wider-reaching) profiles being identified amongst non-Muslim Americans?
It is very damaging and is gross violation of the very principles that American democracy stands or advocates for.
People are no longer as empty-headed as they used to be. Having to rely on the typical sensationalism which you believe is crucial to make them notice
I find this effort to puff oneself up at the expense of one’s fellow citizens to be bizarre and destructive: “oh, other Americans aren’t nearly as enlightened and selfless and magnanimous as I am, so they’re not going to care about what is done to Muslims.”
Here are examples of major political controversies over the past decade: Guantanamo, torture, drones, renditions, NSA warrantless eavesdropping. The victims of all of those were almost exclusively Muslims, and yet huge numbers of people cared. Granted, many didn’t because it wasn’t only done to Muslims, but huge numbers did.
The solution to citizenry indifference to injustices isn’t to tell everyone how dumb and selfish other people are and to proclaim in advance that they won’t care. It’s to do what we all can do to make them care. Huge numbers of people also didn’t care about the Hoover-era surveillance scandals because it was “only” done to civil rights leaders and anti-war hippies and large numbers of people thought they were threats and should be watched. But plenty of people did care and were able to build it into a major controversy and ultimate reform.
That’s because they didn’t sit around proclaiming in advance that nobody would care because of how provincial and primitive everyone else is.
“It’s to do what we all can do to make them care.”
A fine example of someone doing exactly that is Shahid Buttar, who directly followed your comment with his comment, which included his video link which is all about motivating people care about and to act on what they’ve learned.
Re-posting the video link here: NSA vs USA Shahid Buttar
Mr. Greenwald,
I became a target because I stopped tolerating what Americans did to Muslims (and others). Knowing that I would not be able to change others, I changed myself. One of those changes was to disassociate from the sort of provincials who most definitely will never care about the difficulties those five named targets have faced. One other change was to break this American taboo: never, ever link US voters to the actions of the US government.
While you may characterize this as self-puffery, keep in mind your cash flow halts within a month after you stop pandering to the very people who should have been concerned about the surveillance/stalking crimes several years ago. And speaking of the Hoover-era surveillance scandals: what COINTELPRO reforms? What are you talking about, the Church Committee, which turned out to be nothing more than a marketing campaign? COINTELPRO did not fade away; it gobbled steroids, and the provincials you pander to are their suppliers. There has been no ultimate reform. Quite the contrary.
You refer to some political controversies over the past decade — involving terrorism against Muslims — which huge numbers of Americans cared about. However, Gitmo remains open, torture continues, drones still kill by metadata, there is still no evidence (to my knowledge) that renditions have stopped, and NSA/FBI stalking of people continues. Can “not enough cared” count as huge numbers did care? No. What the provincials care about is losing respect, money, and wars — not what happens to hated Muslims. (I repeat: I do care. That’s why I’m a target.)
“The solution to citizenry indifference to injustices…” in part, requires explaining, politely and rudely, how the citizenry is complicit, thereby inducing a few of them into stop being so. The public deserves to be outed in the same way the NSA or the State Dept. deserves. It’s ugly, but necessary. Americans are not innocent bystanders in all this, and saying so is hardly bizarre and destructive. What is bizarre and destructive is protecting COINTELPRO perps. It seems you and Mr. Snowden have decided this is in your best interests: celebrity status and coin for you, and the same for Snowden, along with some warm, fuzzy ‘patriotic feeling’.
I am very pleased that these five people will now have standing in court. Now, at the risk of seeming overly self-interested, after years of being on the sharp-end, I would like some too. If I pander to the provincials, will you help me? Pretty please?
Stan, well said. Apparently you are one of the many, unfortunate, who are on the never ending 4D’s list (Disrupt, Deny, Deceive, Discredit)…aka Intel Stalked (colloquially being called gang stalked, blacklisted, black bag jobs etc…). Will anyone ever have the courage to expose this for what it is ? I hope so. Hiding it has nothing to do with safety and security or the national best interest. A nation is built of people. When people start to be targeted and destroyed, such has proven to be the case, the foundation crumbles. Hence, the best national security and safety would be to expose the truth of Intel Stalking.
Thanks, R. Pavlova. It’s been going on for 10, possibly 14 years, and of course I have no legal standing. Since the Stasi is adept at hiding the evidence — a critical skill picked up from their GDR compatriots — people like myself can only make claims without supporting evidence, in the hopes our stories corroborate others’, and in turn, draw public attention to the situation. The ACLU cannot or will not do anything, and apparently, neither will E. Snowden and G. Greenwald, who I naively hoped would be willing to expose this. But no cigar; they don’t have the evidence, or they are protecting the stalkers.
You might be surprised at how much a target appreciates your comment, unaccompanied by the usual eye rolling of Stasi rodents and their sponsors: John and Jane Doe.
I started noticing odd things many years ago on public forums where there were huge amounts of people. Large Internet communities, that seem to get invaded and blown up from the inside out. Anyone having a different opinion became under attack. Even when the opinion was backed by facts and documented, far fetch stories with no such proof of any kinda were chosen as the answer.Many times I said thats a great idea do you have any documents to back it up, and I was attacked. .Just asking why someone had an opinion gets you attacked ,this is common with people that watch a certain TV News Station asking them any questions makes them Highly offended one of the hosts on this staion acts exactly the same way, he inviteds people on his show to talk about something and then he cuts them off interupts them and basically acts like a total asshole not letting them get a word in and then declares him self the winner of a debate that never happen ,because the other person never got to speak, this same news station takes clips of people and cuts out parts to validate there side, in many cases completely changing the 3 sentences the person got out before getting cut off.
People that watch this station even refuse to look at any documents that might prove them wrong ,They wont even look to try and discredit the documents they just declare they are not looking at that BS and bla bla bla. It would be my guess hosts on this news station dont look at documents either and only offer opinions not facts. I admit i watch this station for sometime until it dawned on me one of the Hosts was lil Hitler at that point I bailed . If i had children I would not let them watch this station I do not want my kids acting like that, but it seems to be pretty standard to act that way. Asking Questions is bad. The bomb to all of this is that it is the same tactic that was deployed in China under Mao, this is exactly how they beat the people down to only except there truth, it has now been stretched to the point that any truth is called negative, you are a negative person for telling truth. Anyway i hope my comment was in line with what you were talking about, but I will disagree on one statement you made if i understand what you ment, you said Government actions had something to do with voters. I will remind you that Obama got elected promising to end wars and close Gitmo and none of that happened, as far as i can see there has been zero change from Bush to Obama, it is just more of the same. I believe the news media can now over ride people abilty to actually think and make a choice, and either way the media lies so much any choice made comes from info that was not true, so in the end it doesnt matter. For example I saw this not long ago many groups attacked Obama for not closing Gitmo mostly they were from one wing, last week I saw people from that same wing now attacking Obama because he appears to be doing everything he can to close gitmo they said and release all those evil people to attack us again. I found it interesting that they take the position, that these people are attacking us, when in fact they are attacking what they consider invaders in their homeland. As far as i know the United States has not been attacked by anyone in along time, unless you count the attack on the constituion by our own government
I think some of what you said is in line with what I said, including the point about Mao’s regime, which reflected as much about Chinese society — at that time — as it did about Mao himself. (Mao bashing aside, he does deserve credit for securing what China had been missing since the early 19th century — sovereignty; no trivial thing.)
Anyway, neither Hitler, Mao nor Stalin could have crushed their own people so ruthlessly if they did not have enough John and Jane Does to do their totalitarian dirty work for them. Same is true of Stasi USA. US voters endorsed the Stasi Regime before 2008 and they will do so again in 2016. The Democratic Party had been proving they are untrustworthy for quite some time, if ever, and US voters should have suspected B. Obama was lying through his teeth in Berlin and Cairo. He was lying. He always lies. It’s what he does.
What to do? Well, how about this: do not vote in the 2016 national elections. Strip away the legitimacy of the Stasi Regime — not only in your eyes, but theirs as well. (These criminals literally bank on the idea they are legitimate because they win elections.)
In the meantime, starting asap, gather or communicate in ad-hoc groups — excluding the current batch of banksters, war criminals, propaganda hacks and politicians — to discuss issues and platforms. The first order of business is ferreting out Stasi rodents who will not only infiltrate, but will attempt to direct and muddle conversations, then look for ways to dismantle the Stasi altogether — all other considerations can only come after. Then, everything else related to schools and school boards, the responsibilities and challenges to municipal councils, state houses, and equally important: nationally scoped issues. But they can’t ‘think globally and act locally’. They have to do both. They can’t continue delegating all thought and discussion of the geo-political and geo-strategic domain to the so called experts of today, who really suck at what they do.
(I refer to ‘they’, not ‘we’ because I emigrated a long time ago, and have no stake in the US. But since then, I have been threatened and stalked by the American Stasi — on my nickel — so I insist on having a say anyway.)
Simplistic internet post-it? Yes, but I’ve left much unsaid regarding infrastructure projects, de-repealing Glass-Steagall, a sane, progressive tax system, and rational foreign policies. (Dealing with a rational USA is in everyone’s interest: Russia’s, China’s, that of the state formerly known as Iraq, and most of all, the US’ — being rational is its most vital interest, one which it grossly neglects.)
Why do I think my reasoning is just as valid as a Reagan’s, a Clinton’s, a Bush’s, or an Obama’s? Just look the fuck around. It is obvious that this country’s Yale and Harvard grads are definitely not up to the task — beyond promoting their own personal interests while they send their gullible followers on mindless killing sprees. Fuck, I could do that if I were a psychopath. You don’t need a pedigree to attack the wrong country, try to install offensive missiles on top of the birthplace of Russian culture, or ship your middle class’ economy to China.
I agree with all of the above but the U.S. president was a Republican then. You’re as aware as anybody that liberal interest in those issues plummeted after January 2009. I don’t think it’s “puffing oneself up” to talk candidly about the wholesale abandonment of principle that infected the American Left. Most liberals have moved so far to the right in the past five years that they aren’t even recognizable as the same people that they were 2008. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to persuade them but I’m not going to candy-coat the rancid moral state of liberalism in America.
Is there not anything that doesnt get twisted into a right ver left issue. regardless of who is President that gives Americans some excuse or reason to no longer stand on what it means to be Americans, I think the situation is sad,I think turning everything into right ver left is worse. This is not a right ver left issue ,its an AMERICAN issue that all should be able to agree on. This infact did happen under the former Crook Right Wing president Bush, That is not to say that the Current president is not a Crook he is. The next will also be a crook if the spying isnt stopped your freedom is going to vanish one group at a time if its isnt already happening, wake the fuck up pull your head out your ass BOTH PARTIES ARE DOING BAD THINGS BOTH !!! The Government as a whole is acting like we are germany in 1935, I post on a Right wing FB page based on the talk I see there sadly they would be proud of the Government doing this to these people, They have no clue that they will be next on the list
Given that hundreds of thousands of contractors/fed employees have clearance and access to the intelligence tools that Snowden Had, and given that there are some credible sounding assertions from at least one former NSA employee that Obama (while a state senator), Supreme Court nominees, and folks of similar prominence have been tapped, I was kind of thinking that this piece would be more towards that direction. Not saying this isn’t important: Just giving standing to someone- anyone- to have their day in court is very important- and so goodonya for that. But I don’t think these examples push the envelope as far as what has already been either reported, or claimed with credibility (but not hard proof).
I think it’s impossible that HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of guys like snowden (sitting around, bored oftentimes) don’t wind up screwing around and satisfying their own pet curiosities by hacking far, far less appropriate targets than what is illustrated here (like celebrities, ex wives, etc.). This is the story that needs to be told.
You are point on Just what you missed i think is that much of what is going on now is automated. See William Binney, the code autselects tragets Binney also says that most people at the NSA have no idea how any of this system works, he implied in some of his talks that there are total idiots in control of parts of this that could make someone automatically show up on a kill list. He even said they no so lil about how the whole system works they would not be able to tell you how you got on the list and would have no idea how to get you off.
The depravity of the intelligence agencies seems only to grow with each revelation. One overarching scandal remaining in plain sight is Congress’ feckless inability to discover these kinds of facts on its own, as it’s constitutionally charged to do as the branch supposedly representing We the People. The Church & Pike committees whose work gave rise to the contemporary intelligence committees conducted rigorous investigations of intelligence abuses spanning decades, but their successors settle for self-serving lies from executive officials who can’t even tell the truth about what Snowden had access to, let alone the scope of their secret and unaccountable activities.
This story proves that surveillance does indeed have victims, and they extend beyond Muslim Americans to include the women whose ex-lovers used their positions at the NSA to spy on them, the activists from various backgrounds subjected to illegal monitoring by their own government for exercising their constitutional rights, and ultimately the democracy that — as our Founders understood — would crumble upon itself if denied the lifeblood of new and unpopular perspectives.
At the end of the day, as I say in NSA vs USA (a new hip-hop history lesson set to house music) “the agencies need to be erased,” and “we can force any agency to make a new choice when we build a movement, each raising our voice”: http://shahidbuttar.com/NSAvsUSA
Wow. That’s awesome for those five people. Maybe now they’ll get some sort of justice? Too bad for the rest of us but pretty rad for those five guys. Also awesome for the government who worked closely with you to whitewash the story. Now they don’t have to explain why they’re spying on non-Muslims. Thanks, Intercept!
wHY DO YOU DENY THE RIGHT TO FAIR SPEECH?
i WRITE POST AFTER POST BUT FOR YOUR OWN REASONS YOU DO NOT LET MY WORDS BE PUBLISHED.
sHAME ON YOU iNTERCEPT.
yOU CALL FOR FREE SPEECH AND YOU GIVE SHORT HAND.
You are false and perverted.
Troll
You should read up on what constitutes a violation of the 1st amendment since you are obviously ignorant on the subject. Also… your posts are appearing even as you tell us (in your posts, duh!) that they are not. Are you that confused, or are you simply here to add some filler? We should thank you and a few others for again showing the need for some kind of moderation on this board to keep the really stupid shit out… which has nothing to do with free speech, in case you were thinking that, and I’m sure you were.
Some people hold it up as a moral ideal, rather than simply as a legal restriction upon the government. Now I’m not sure how to best apply that to a comment board that clearly is going to get a lot of trolling and disruptive posts, but it is completely reasonable to be critical of the suppression of speech, even in a “private” setting.
(as an example: I can think someone is an idiot for being unable to confront speech they disagree with, even if they have every right to act in such a way)
Now I believe it’s more likely simply a side effect of sub-par comment section code, or due to required “pre-moderation” for posts containing content like multiple links, but complaints about infringements upon “free speech” don’t necessarily have to be making a legal argument about government actions.
Your idea of a free speech being a moral ideal is fine, but it has no bearing on this particular idiot participating in the comments section of a privately owned web site. Free speech is a concept that is very important, and should not be diminished by moronic word salad spewers who complain about not being allowed to post in… wait for it… DOZENS of posts….. his ass should be moderated out of here along with several other disingenuous tools that post the same repetitive garbage over and over… it would make for a nice clean reading experience where people could talk to each other without wading through the nutcases and sock puppets shrieking like bickering upset chimps from across the valley.
My posts were being blocked the other day from a US IP address. Sitting at the same computer posting from a Russia IP address worked fine. Today I have had many SSL cert warnings pop that tell me there is a man in the middle attack happening, that means someone is jumping into the connection between me and the website
The most disturbing one to me was the attorney. Attorney/client privilege is absolutely necessary for a functioning legal system. The fact that legally protected phone calls can be monitored should set off immediate alarm bells. Whoever authorized that one should be brought up on charges themselves.
It is important that these people were willing to share their stories because we know people are being targeted by the NSA and also by the FBI but not to forget all of the rest of the Five Eyes and all the warrants and backdoors in America that is actually targeting all sorts of people for surveillance and scooping up private conversations including between family members and lawyers and their clients. . Because we all know the NSA is not as bad as some of these other agencies. It is easy to grab data points and then spin it into reports. We know the biased nature of who is being targeted and we know that some Muslim Americans and others have been violated and we know that lawyers have been spied on as well as other people. It is the scope and the fact that this has been going on for some time without adequate oversight and also people were being blocked from asking because of all the classification. This all obstructs and makes due process impossible. The fact that all of this has taken so long for the lawmakers and the courts to see that this undercuts our basic freedoms and the integrity of the courts. especially the right to protect oneself from overzealous investigation and prosecution. Remember America already has 25% of the world’s prisoners. So you do not want the attention of government agents.
Did somebody hack into TheIntercept and publish this? When conspiracy theorists start quoting other conspiracy theorists, we have finally sharked the jump. I mean, ” … that some of them have succeeded in infiltrating the Pentagon, and that CIA director John Brennan is a secret Muslim.” That’s awesome. By the way, is more than six-year-old surveillance all you’ve got? And with no idea if any of these individuals were contacted by actual terrorists–even if unintentionally or about a harmless matter–there is no basis for saying the scrutiny was unjustified, except that the scrutiny was terminated in 2008 (or earlier), which kinda shows that the program worked. In other words, there was likely some connector, a relative, an innocent email contact, a curious mind researching on the internet, the FBI investigated, found no problem and moved along. That left TheIntercept to invade the privacy of these gentlemen, outing them to the public.
Just change your screen name to “pretzel”, ‘deflection”, “but…but..but” or “Look over there!”. It’d be the only part of your comments that would be true.
Thank you, Glenn Greenwald, for your important services to journalism and what remains of the American conscience and constitutional guarantees.
Just after 9/11, I was listening to sports talk radio and the host, a guy that I listened to everyday who was usually reasonable & compassionate, started talking about Towel Heads and their camels and what we should do to them and whatnot. I thought, we’re gonna do to Arab Americans what we did to the Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbor.. Watching these reminds me of interviews I’ve seen of the Japanese Americans that were sent to internment camps. Before 9/11 politicians occasionally apologized to those who were sent away, whose land was sold, who were still seen as lower than 2nd class after the war. Before 9/11 the consensus (at least publicly) was that what we did to the Japanese Americans was shameful, that it must never happen again. And yet it did. To think that it continues in Guantonomo makes my stomach turn. I knew a man from a Japanese American family who was sent to one of the camps. He was my landlord. His emotional wounds are still visible more than 50 years later. We as a nation have apologies to make and wrongs to right and a prison to close down.
Again at the intercept I am being blocked.
Five attempts at posting here on this article and nothing shows.
How is the Intercept.
Thank you Glenn and Murtaza for this article and many, many thanks to the courageous gentlemen within it who consented to have their stories told.
The echoes here that resonate in near-perfect harmony with the McCarthy era, the surveillance of folks like MLK and other civil rights activists and the persecution of Japanese-Americans during WWII are unavoidable and completely, utterly chilling to contemplate.
Yes. Well done guys.
This was worth the wait. The paranoia in the USG is palpable and totally insane. How do the rest of us manage to even get out of bed in the morning, let alone carry on and not give any of this terrorist stuff a second thought? (Dear NSA, it has nothing to do with anything you are or are not doing).
How many of these five guys were on the no-fly list? That’s what I thought.
These five guys sound like they could be Chamber of Commerce types. Rotary Club, maybe. This?? This is what NSA is justifying their spookery on?
Oh, and is this going to come up in the debate on Dianne Feinstein’s new bill? The Reichstag Fire Sale Bill?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/08/senate-cybersecurity-bill-opposed-by-nsa-critics
Again I post but I am not published.
Four attempts , this is the fifth, to get a post to stick at the intercept..
What are you doing?
Who are you.
Previously I have found that replying to my self gets published,\.
I had various themes in my previous posts but I now wish to again ask the following.
If Muslims have been under the evil eye what about other activists or varying denominations.
How about the files on activists Glenn who are not Muslim.
Where is that list, Glenn.
Calm down, I have seen two of your posts.
Glenn Greenwald or Murtaza Hussain,
Thank you for the investigative report, I especially enjoyed reading how FISA court orders are obtained. This story should hold weight when it comes to prosecutorial lawsuits that force change in the current process of monitoring innocent individuals.
Did you ask these five men the relevance of the date on which intelligence organizations began monitoring their e-mail’s?
If there where Muslim people under surveillance, there might also be other activists under surveillance.
An chance on an article relating to them?
An chance of non muslim people being given the heads up on the spying Glenn?
My previous p[posts have not been published on this article. Why is that?
One could but hope…
Prompted by a tweet from Julian Sanchez….
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bivens_v._Six_Unknown_Named_Agents
Great work guys! I wish I was awake enough to fully appreciate it.
Testing again
These men did not betray their country. Their country has betrayed them. It has betrayed all of us.
Frankly I’m disappointed if this is Greenwald’s “big scoop.” Not that I condone the surveillance, but most Americans — being non-muslims — will not personally identify with these five and may even be sympathetic to these actions in a “post-9/11.” In fact many Americans may even support the surveillance of “Muslim-American leaders.”
What most people want to see is how (or if) the average, American-born “white guy” can get mixed up in the NSA’s crosshairs. i.e. Can one be spied on this way for being a Tea Party member, a environmental activist, a drug enthusiast, a television personality, etc…
Testing
Major story. Perhaps the gravamen is here:
So their whole conspiracy theory, the undergirding for the whole surveillance state, was by profiles inflated into a gasbag the size of the Hindenburg? If so, it is monstrous: wars and a national panopticon justified by this this. A constitutional democracy discarded because of paranoid and baseless theories, and a bayonet dummy named “Mohammed Raghead”.
An evil story. And well worth the telling. And we’ve been here before: the most monstrous breaches of national security on the basis of fevered stereotypes. And the precedent is easily portable to any disliked group.
We were warned.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/323/214/case.html
Ethnic profiling and surveillance of ALL Muslim-Americans is justified.
So called moderate muslims do not engage in overt acts of terror, but support those that do. I draw no distinction between them. Islam is a terrorist ideology NOT a religion and must not be allowed to take root in the west PERIOD. All Muslims must be deported at once! History proves that they do not play nice with others
When someone is at war with you and you do not defend against it, you lose.
Way to use that broad brush, there, Charlie. I personally know three people (White American) who converted to Islam based on the tenets of the religion itself, and all three oppose any acts of terror as unjustified.
Well, this was worth waiting for.
First. My thanks to these men for their willingness to have their stories told. I’ve no doubt they will face innuendo and the implications for their participation in this story will come back to them in one form or another. This takes courage. They are to be commended, and they have my gratitude. As one of them noted, they might be the more obvious targets given our government’s predilictions, but if they can be targeted, so can we all.
Second. The surveillance they were subjected to cannot be whitewashed with claims of multiple stages of approval etc ad nauseam. Bullshit. I can much more readily believe a judge in his pajamas at 2 am making a decision based on this/her gut instincts about the person seeking the authorization for surveillance.
And, throughout this piece the (disputed) claim attributed to Cardinal Richelieu resonates:
No shit.
It’s late. I have yet to watch the video interviews; they’re at the top of the list tomorrow morning.
Thanks for being meticulous in your reporting, gentlemen.
Oh!, and… re: John Guandolo I hope Charles Pierce of Esquire has some fun with his contribution to this piece. Jesus Christ on a skateboard is John Guandolo nuts. I will not sleep well imagining a whole agency in which a loon like this can have a career.
So why have you not published the e-mail addresses of all 202 US “persons” on the spread sheet? Don’t you think they would like to know too?
Just guessing, but they’re probably making an effort to avoid doing anything that can be used to tar The Intercept. Someone on that list might have been legitimately targeted, and the government would be quick to use that against Glenn and, by extension, Snowden. The people they did mention are both great examples and clearly were not real threats. This obviously shows that the FISC isn’t doing it’s ostensible job, though, so it is highly likely that the majority of the list is similarly innocent people. (but The Intercept can’t take the chance)
Frankly I’m disappointed if this is Greenwald’s “big scoop.” Not that I condone the surveillance, but most Americans — being non-muslims — will not personally identify with these five and may even be sympathetic to these actions in a “post-9/11.” In fact many Americans may even support the surveillance of “Muslim-American leaders.”
What most people want to see is how (or if) the average, American-born “white guy” can get mixed up in the NSA’s crosshairs. i.e. Can one be spied on this way for being a Tea Party member, a environmental activist, a drug enthusiast, a television personality, etc…
Frankly I’m disappointed if this is Greenwald’s “big scoop.” Not that I condone the surveillance, but most Americans — being non-muslims — will not personally identify with these five and may even be sympathetic to these actions in a “post-9/11.” In fact many Americans may even support the surveillance of “Muslim-American leaders.”
What most people want to see is how (or if) the average, American-born “white guy” can get mixed up in the NSA’s crosshairs. i.e. Can one be spied on this way for being a Tea Party member, a environmental activist, a drug enthusiast, a television personality, etc…
A few years ago, I got the idea something was wrong in this country, crazy laws being passed and no protest of any kind. I thought that was odd so i started looking into it. I found a load of people that had been spied on under FISA, that were white and had done nothing wrong. Some of them attempted to get there stories looked at by the MSM yet they refused to report any of it.One of them I found was an older guy around 45 who had done some protesting in college. He got a funny ideas he was being spied on follow and even that people had been inside his house. Many of his friends laughed at him and said he was crazy there would be no reason to spy on him, a few more years down the road he ran into an old college buddy that had became a lawyer.He told him file a FOI and see what comes back. What came back shocked him I believe he was followed and spied on for like 7 years by the FBI, they had talked to his employer, This guy was beside himself and didnt get why they would be spying on him for years so he wet to the main stream media and not a single outlet would tell his story, this was like 2007 or 8 I found his story on the net, He finally put up his own web site attempting to get the word out. While I found that I also found some other disturbing things, like there was a huge protest at the capital about the Scott walker thing, this also did not make any head lines, which is quite shocking . 15 people got that protest together all 15 of them were raided by the FBI, I believe it was 8 of them that got charged with some kind of terrorist stuff because they had been working with groups in South America teaching them how to organize and protest against there governments. While looking more I found older people that had protested the veitnam war that were in there 50’s that were also raided by the FBI, for no reason. Calyx internet out of NewYork was handed an NSL in like 2005 , the owner a real American refused to honor it on the grounds it was un Constitutional the court later agreed but if you look into the storie, none of his customers were people , that were muslims they were , people like Demacracy Now News, and activist groups, I believe the ACLU was one of his customers also, to this day even though he was found not guilty and the NSL was found to be UN Constitutuional he is still under a GAG order and can not tell who they wanted to illegal spy on. THey handed out 1000’s of NSL’s, at one time FBI agents could just write it up themselves ,no court nothing. I do agree with you that this greenwald storie will not have much effect. I hope I am wrong. Based on how he claimed we would be shocked and i dont think anyone really is. Im thinking he got his arm twisted and this is not the original storie
Well worth the wait. Thanks to GG and Maz.
Great job giving a personal look at all the people being spied on.
The first guy throws out Thomas Jefferson as an example of a “good” American. You have to be really brainwashed into US propaganda to think that, and yet he was still spied on.
Thomas Jefferson, America’s Founding Sociopath, by Robert Parry:
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/04/thomas-jefferson-americas-founding-sociopath/
Glad you posted the link. Rapists of minds are no different than rapists of women, rapists know no boundaries, respect no security of souls within others bodies- tsa, stop&frisk, just casual examples. It follows then, that Jefferson consortium of its time can no longer be the model upon which people set the standards of virtue since dehumanization only sees assets as “breeding women” & all offspring too at that. How much more blatantly outrageously obvious do we need it to be to see whats been done to instill hate, racism, and of course, misogyny =prevention of women from improving their own lot! Its about control, sadistically so if need be, and from whats out their on internet land, its sickeningly quite scary.
Jefferson may just as easily have said:
” from time to time the tree of patriarchal lineage must be replenished from the womb of those we claim to despise the most, just to remind them who is master….no earth hued woman will be spared brutality, even if not upon her body, then at least her mind and the mind of generations of her children afterwards we shall tell them it happened otherwise. And they in their tender innocence will believe it was so. ”
So in that respect, lies of all kinds hide the fact that there is a war, secretly being waged, but people have been brain washed to not see it, and at the end of the day all factions are attempting to control womens bodies just as they want the resources that sustain those bodies, and then all are spying on other factions to see who has the best shot at prevailing, not to mention of profiting from the future generations that prevail.
To them its all one big “market analysis,” to the rest of us it feels like organized terror geared at trauma conditioning to accept control over, sadistic control at that. Obviously, civil rights and human rights activists want people to wake up and fight back, but financial sector is preventing peoples ability to do so by denying them economic opportunity to survive… as is being done to all minority communities whether these communities are aware of Cointellpro and even Project West – which is wallstreets fascist take over of the financial sectors, actual insider trading so as to steal institutions belonging to the people, to prevent any more minority gains, no one heard much about how Jpm had been planning that in the works for years- but theres that pesky e-mail out there to prove it, that these ceo darlings knew way before what was going to happen and who their buddies in other agencies were and how they were all going to work together to pull it off. Media, owned by the few of course, does not tell the actual reality of what is going on: corporate fascist takeover and the factions that want to oppress, are pulling it off quite well. So its not that we need to occupy, but starve them out by not banking or buying a damn thing that supports their dividends- and we all need to do this to use our economic power, and our voices, and let them know we are increasingly aware of how their game is played.
First thing is to is defund their favorite banking institutions, only bank at local S&Ls, this will starve them for hurting the very communities they claim their not trying to hurt, when indeed history has shown thats all they ever do. Next is not buy a single thing that supports the dividends these vampires thrive on living off. Next is demand 50% equal representation by as many and as diverse group of women as possible, so that they may protect the interests of future generations in the way that natural order intended it to be. If we do this, we achieve balance, harmony, possibly even world peace. If we dont, we continue to deal with war on all people and species extinction at alarming rates.
I hate to say it but I think few Americans will be roused by these outrages until white people with christian names are affected. Liberal Americans might start caring when the occupant of the White House has an (R) by his name. Until then, I don’t expect much from them. The American Left has become a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democratic Party.
These taps appear to be only from the Bush era. They appear to predate the FISA Amendments Act, even. Many may have been illegal at the time.
If we get to see the full list I’ll bet there are “white people with Christian names” on it.
Plenty of Americans have been impacted by unconstitutional and illegal surveillance, and most of them are NOT Muslims.
Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr was not a Muslim, and the FBI had a documented plot to drive him to suicide. See COINTELPRO 2.0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhqgq1wITTg
The peace activists infiltrated by the Defense Department in the Pacific Northwest, or the dozens of environmental vandals imprisoned as so-called “eco-terrorists,” further demonstrate the point. See http://www.constitutioncampaign.org/blog/?p=17248
I hate to say it also but it seems the sheeple will only get alarmed when it starts to affect them personally. This is not the country I grew up in, or raised my children in, or grew old in. I don’t recognize the USA anymore. Everyone commenting on here is probably subject to surveilance since this is consorting with foreign constitutionally minded people. That most likely fills the FISC requirements.
You are so right. They will have to be Christian, white, male and republican before anyone will care on the Conservative side and they will have to be Christian, black and democrat for anyone to care on the Liberal side. I can’t stand watching MSNBC these days. They are a bunch of flunkies. This story should be at the top of their list but all they want to feed the public is the major distraction of “hate the conservatives” bull****! At this point i am convinced “REAL” Progressives no longer exist in the mainstream media.
Well said DeeG!
lots of good comments on this post, I agree this is not the place I grew up, where people stood up for others rights even if they didnt believe in the cause. I do not watch TV at all and i do all my own research into things, most things these days have a complete political spin, today its a simple one , right its all Obama’s fault left its all the rights fault both sides leaving out facts of the matter to promote there agenda. I assure you that many people have been silenced over the past 10+ years on many subjects, many people have committed suicide, many odd things have happened and the past couple years it has doubled down. I would guess that the spy system that has been explained on this web site from head to toe, is able to reach every single americans door. they reciently did a study on facebook and munipulated peoples news feeds to get emotional reactions. I would guess they have been doing that sort of thing for alongtime they just released the study as cover so it wasnt leaked. Dee I think no real anything exiists in the MSM. It all looks like a circus to me. Some time back a State Gov Official commited suicide, I think she was Republican but i thought it was pretty odd because I dont think that ever happened in my life time so I tried to look into it, every single news article I found was a copy paste of one, they were all the same. Not a single one explained how it happened. She was at her BF house a former Gov official himself. They had spent the weekend together ,he seemed not to think anything was wrong although they really didnt ask many questions, so on Sunday after they spent the weekend together she showered and while he was in the shower she went out and shot herself in the head in the garage. That was the story, Some how I thought a Gov official blowing there head off would like get someone to ask questions at least a few, but there were almost zero.
OF COURSE all these people should be monitored. After all, they are…brown.
I’m reminded of a statement made on another comment thread a few days ago, that said, “I cannot imagine an American Soldier firing on his own people”, to which I replied, “If the people were anything but white, I can imagine it with no difficulty whatsoever”.
If you can’t imagine a US soldier firing on an American. Think of the civil war, obviously. Or Kent State. However on the good side only perhaps 100 a year are deliberately killed apparently by the police. Kent State’s are not occurring daily. The number of people of color who die from violence of the security forces domestically is in the hundreds. Of course internationally the number on average is between 10,000 and 100,.000 a year (Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Drones) of late.
Random question, Pete (I recognise your handle and pic from the Graun) – how did you manage to get your pic up here next to your comment?
Maybe it links through my email address, which is a google one. It’s linked to twitter, etc.
Note: being a muslim is not a skin colour, or nationality, or any other biologically determined fact. its voluntary to be a member of a mosque in america. if someone went to weekly rallies with their christian brethren in white hoods around burning crosses, nobody would have an issue with profiling them. and its not because of their skin colour, or because they have a general religious belief. if a church or mosque or temple or whatever preaches hate or endorses violence, all members who dont immediately cut ties are willing participants and are justifiably looked at with more suspicion.
The Klan has been around for well over a century, virtually runs several of the Southern states, and has strong sympathizers all over. The militia showing up at Cliven Bundy’s ranch was a dead giveaway that the FBI doesn’t care about white supremacists at all. My comment on the subjects of the column being brown was broad brush, I admit, and it’s coloured by my observations while driving through Arizona, where the only folks that I saw talking to police on the side of the road were…brown.
“The militia showing up at Cliven Bundy’s ranch was a dead giveaway that the FBI doesn’t care about white supremacists at all” if you believe militia are all white supremacists you watch far to much TV, they are for sure patriots that stand up for the Constitution, but that doesnt make them white supremacists, and I would love to see where you got this false information, do you have a link or source? the idea that you can make that jump is scarey do you also make the jump that all muslims are terrorst because its almost the same exact jump.
debian
“……the idea that you can make that jump is scarey do you also make the jump that all muslims are terrorst because its almost the same exact jump……”
The irony is delicious – but also pathetic. Nete has no such information. In fact, it’s obvious he has to lie to promoter his political position. The idea that the Klan still runs the south is just fucking ignorant, and only the most ignorant far left wing European will believe that the Arizona police only pull over “brown” people. There are plenty of things that one can criticize in America without having to resort to spectacular lies.
Thee is little doubt that the FBI is partially KKK not only since E. Hoover’s time.
Wasn’t about the FBI caring or not caring, or anything else. It was strictly a BLM and other agencies law enforcement operation. According to people in the BLM and law enforcement, the little known secrets about the Bundy ranch stand off was they had spec op law enforcement on Bundy’s property. Also Bundy was being monitored electronically, being monitored by drones and other means. Law enforcement knew his comings and goings, not to mention the militia members that were on site and who they were. There were quite a few under covers in the militia/private citizens brought in to begin covertly reporting back to law enforcement. There were law enforcement with far nastier weapons then what the public saw and helos on stand-by close. Literally they were ready to go and had the go order been given, they could have easily taken care of the stand off and the militia. If you think about it, Federal resources such as armored vehicles, mini guns, drones with rockets, Apache attack helos and other methods would not have a problem with the private citizens/militias. What complicated (but they still could have completed it) things for the operation was the daily reporting on site by the news media, especially the broad cast media.
They were still planning to move forward, but privately Federal officials have said that the reason they were told to pull back (they then told their people just to back off and withdraw and those people didn’t need to know the reason) because 2014 is an election year so it was very much a political calculation, not a law enforcement calculation. This is why Harry Reid and others have talked/referenced things happening in the future, down the road.
Bundy and his family are still being monitored but it is done in a low key fashion. Besides electronic, supposedly there is a source on the ranch itself that is feeding law enforcement current information. It would be reasonable understanding that law enforcement knows all the people, the cars they drive, the family members, everything. Allegedly the plan for in the future, after the election so 6 months or a year down the road is the operation will move forward. That may change if the Democrats lose control of the Senate is a low profile operation, where the Feds will pick up Bundy and his family when they leave the ranch, come to town, go to the grocery story, go out to eat or whatever.
When deemed appropriate for the operation to begin, law enforcement will pick up who they can on the outside, then hit the ranch. By the time the media even gets out to the road to the ranch, it would all be over. The reporting would then by that night how Cliven and his family and workers were picked up, the ranch was confiscated and that part of the story is over. No media, no militia, no nothing.
It would be reasonable to think that Cliven Bundy has about 4 to 5 months to get the case to Federal court (now that he has an attorney) and fight it there. That easily could put off the law enforcement plans.
About that. The KKK was composed of Christians. It would be wrong though to violate the privacy of all Christians because members of the KKK were committing crime. In the same way Jihadists are Muslim. It is wrong to violate the privacy of all Muslims because Jihadists are terrorists…
So in your view, it would be OK to target Jews as a group, or Christians, depending on what some of the members of those religions do. Because, you know, membership is voluntary.
Apart from the fact that it is absolutely wrong to target people based on their beliefs, there’s also reason to suspect they are being targeted because their names are Arab-sounding.
Remember Kent State?