Last week’s announcement that Saudi Arabia — easily one of the world’s most brutally repressive regimes — was chosen to head a U.N. Human Rights Council panel provoked indignation around the world. That reaction was triggered for obvious reasons. Not only has Saudi Arabia executed more than 100 people already this year, mostly by beheading (a rate of 1 execution every two days), and not only is it serially flogging dissidents, but it is reaching new levels of tyrannical depravity as it is about to behead and then crucify the 21-year-old son of a prominent regime critic, Ali Mohammed al-Nimr, who was convicted at the age of 17 of engaging in demonstrations against the government.
Most of the world may be horrified at the selection of Saudi Arabia to head a key U.N. human rights panel, but the U.S. State Department most certainly is not. Quite the contrary: its officials seem quite pleased about the news. At a State Department briefing yesterday afternoon, Deputy Spokesperson Mark Toner was questioned by the invaluable Matt Lee of AP, and this is the exchange that resulted:
QUESTION: Change topic? Saudi Arabia.
MR. TONER: Saudi Arabia.
QUESTION: Yesterday, Saudi Arabia was named to head the Human Rights Council, and today I think they announced they are about to behead a 21-year-old Shia activist named Muhammed al-Nimr. Are you aware of that?
MR. TONER: I’m not aware of the trial that you — or the verdict — death sentence.
QUESTION: Well, apparently, he was arrested when was 17 years old and kept in juvenile detention, then moved on. And now, he’s been scheduled to be executed.
MR. TONER: Right. I mean, we’ve talked about our concerns about some of the capital punishment cases in Saudi Arabia in our Human Rights Report, but I don’t have any more to add to it.
QUESTION: So you —
QUESTION: Well, how about a reaction to them heading the council?
MR. TONER: Again, I don’t have any comment, don’t have any reaction to it. I mean, frankly, it’s — we would welcome it. We’re close allies. If we —
QUESTION: Do you think that they’re an appropriate choice given — I mean, how many pages is — does Saudi Arabia get in the Human Rights Report annually?
MR. TONER: I can’t give that off the top of my head, Matt.
QUESTION: I can’t either, but let’s just say that there’s a lot to write about Saudi Arabia and human rights in that report. I’m just wondering if you — that it’s appropriate for them to have a leadership position.
MR. TONER: We have a strong dialogue, obviously a partnership with Saudi Arabia that spans, obviously, many issues. We talk about human rights concerns with them. As to this leadership role, we hope that it’s an occasion for them to look at human rights around the world but also within their own borders.
QUESTION: But you said that you welcome them in this position. Is it based on [an] improved record? I mean, can you show or point to anything where there is a sort of stark improvement in their human rights record?
MR. TONER: I mean, we have an ongoing discussion with them about all these human rights issues, like we do with every country. We make our concerns clear when we do have concerns, but that dialogue continues. But I don’t have anything to point to in terms of progress.
QUESTION: Would you welcome as a — would you welcome a decision to commute the sentence of this young man?
MR. TONER: Again, I’m not aware of the case, so it’s hard for me to comment on it other than that we believe that any kind of verdict like that should come at the end of a legal process that is just and in accordance with international legal standards.
QUESTION: Change of subject?
MR. TONER: Sure.
That’s about as clear as it gets. The U.S. government “welcomes” the appointment of Saudi Arabia to a leadership position on this Human Rights panel because it’s a “close ally.” As I documented two weeks ago courtesy of an equally candid admission from an anonymous “senior U.S. official”: “The U.S. loves human-rights-abusing regimes and always has, provided they ‘cooperate.’ … The only time the U.S. government pretends to care in the slightest about human rights abuses is when they’re carried out by ‘countries that don’t cooperate.'”
It’s difficult to know whether Mark Toner is lying when he claims ignorance about the case of al-Nimr, the regime critic about to be beheaded and crucified for dissident activism, which he engaged in as a teen. Indeed, it’s hard to know which would be worse: active lying or actual ignorance, given that much of the world has been talking about this case. The government of France formally requested that the Saudis rescind the death penalty. Is it really possible that the deputy spokesperson of the U.S. State Department is ignorant of this controversy? Either way, the reluctance of the U.S. government to utter a peep about the grotesque abuses of its “close ally” is in itself grotesque.
But it’s also profoundly revealing. The close U.S./Saudi alliance and the massive amount of weapons and intelligence lavished on the regime in Riyadh by the West is one of the great unmentionables in Western discourse. (The Guardian last week published an editorial oh-so-earnestly lamenting the war in Yemen being waged by what it called the “Saudi-led coalition,” yet never once mentioned the rather important fact that the Saudis are being armed in this heinous war by the U.S. and U.K.; it took a letter to the editor from an Oxfam official to tell The Guardian that the West is not being “complacent” about the war crimes being committed in Yemen, as The Guardian misleadingly claimed, but rather actively complicit.)
It’s not hard to understand why so many of the elite sectors of the West want everyone to avert their eyes from this deep and close relationship with the Saudis. It’s because that alliance single-handedly destroys almost every propagandistic narrative told to the Western public about that region.
As the always-expanding “War on Terror” enters its 14th year, the ostensible target — radical, violent versions of Islam — is fueled far more by the U.S.’s closest allies than any of the countries the U.S. has been fighting under the “War on Terror” banner. Beyond that, the alliance proves the complete absurdity of believing that the U.S. and U.K.’s foreign policies, let alone their various wars, have anything to do with protecting human rights or subverting tyranny and fanaticism. And it renders a complete laughingstock any attempts to depict the U.S. government as some sort of crusader for freedom and democracy or whatever other pretty goals are regularly attributed to it by its helpful press.
Caption: President Barack Obama, right, meets with King Salman of Saudi Arabia in the Oval Office of the White House, on Friday, Sept. 4, 2015, in Washington.
Most disgusting thing I’ve seen in my lifetime was watching Obama and Michelle fly over to SA to “kiss the ring” of the new king. It definitely showed where the true U.S. Allegiance lies…
According to Abi the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a brutal police-state monarchy, anti-human rights. Watch video below at https://youtu.be/Fm-kWT8VGZA
Why is Saudi Arabia heading the United Nations panel on Human Rights? According to Abi it’s because of the U.S. and Saudi love affair. In other words, they serve money, not their Citizens. To both money is more important than their Citizens.
Personally I believe that such behaviour is immature. It’s very unlikely that some currently elected leaders will have the courage to find both win-win solutions and serve their citizens. I’m hopeful that a next generation of public servant leaders will be able to achieve that. But that require a maturity which some of the current elected leaders have not yet reach. It also involved a shift from the head to the heart which requires event more courage ?
So we have a huge problem with the Guardian meaning when I post a message it reads that it was sent when I started writing it, which is impossible because if it takes me 10 minutes to write a comment it should only show from the point of which I sent it not the duration it took for me to write the comment. Clearly the technology exist to monitor my comments as they are being written. Also my computer freezes up only at the guardian comment site which makes sense based on what is happening to my computer because there is an open link to the guardian or who ever is really censoring us which in turn overrides my computer . Every time I post a comment which are powerful statements, they are removed and I am not nearly as radical as other bloggers on the Guardian comment section who use very threatening words that go uncensored. I have come to the conclusion that the guardian is no longer a reliable news source for they have been compromised by our American Jihadist government and are now actively violating our freedom of speech rights.
So the RAG HEADS know anything about Humanity ? LMAO
It is more easier to drink petroleum fuel to America. They don’t care humanities and human right. It is the joke of century.
Glenn’s just grumpy no one’s blamed it on the Jews yet.
Turns out it was wrong
here’s the info about this from the UN.
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=16496&LangID=E#
Thanks Nigel for that link.
Although it is nice to have allies and accept that not every country will have our values, one ,just look at Saudi Arabia and ask just how different they are from pre-invasion Afghanistan.
Obviously they country is more modern and bombs there is no ‘northern alliance,’ but the treatment of women is not that much better, ditto gays, Christians, Jews, etc. They may (or may not) have a boy rape culture, but there is the debate on women actually driving, being outside without a male relative, etc.
Oddly it seems like countries with poor human rights records gravitate toward the panel, opposed to those with better records. Now this.
Maybe one can see why some have a problem with the functioning issues of the UN?
How much more evidence to Americans need to realize that their President is a Sunni Muslim sympathizer? He wants to fight all Shia but embrace all Sunnis.
Saudi Arabia is the world headquarters for the Sunni and the prime exporter of terror. What is it going to take for us and our Congress to realize that?
Why can’t you realize that it’s a United States of America issue and not just an Obama issue? I’m 35 years old and every president during my lifetime has engaged in this type of politics with questionable countries.
Nothing is wrong with being a Sunni Muslim sympathiser. I know lots of Sunni Muslims and many of them are my friends and are lovely people getting on with life like the rest of us. Saudi Arabia is not Sunni Islam, just as Israel is not Judaism. Many would like you to think otherwise, do not let them do that. Your government backs the perversion of the rightful state of religion around the world, within Islam, Judaism and its own interpretations of Christianity.
Your government is an “Anything Saudi Arabia Wants” sympathiser, and what they want is a brutal and oppressive dictatorship that preaches its own, non-historic version of Islam to keep unjust control mechanisms within the religion, allowing it to attack Shia-held groups and their assets for essentially secular reasons. If the Americans did not back them, they would be ousted very quickly. The Americans like that threat, the Saudis like the weapons, neither of them really likes the other, but that’s the reptilian nature of politics.
just watched a harper press conference/town hall in quebec and when asked about selling arms to the saudis given their record his response was almost literally, “well, everyone else is doing it” followed by “they give us money”. that was it. he also avoided mentioning the particular case both questioners brought up (badawi) which seems to be a common tactic.
Can there possibly be a more ignominious job than spokesperson for the U.S. State Department?
I LOVE YOU GLENN GREENWALD. YOU ARE A HERO. PLEASE F THE GOVERNMENT SOME MORE. THEY ARE FILTHY PEICES OF S.
Fascist loves tyrants to do their dirty work for them.
Not a bad article. There was a time I was a fan, unfortunately now Mr Greenwald I find your inconstancy and your will to attack and defame others in service of your own ego sad.
What the fuck are you on about?
He needs to attack the big guys more, and he needs to give the names of all the GCHQ spooks to WikiLeaks if he has them so that they can get similar treatment to what Alan Turing got, but for all the right reasons this time, but otherwise he is the third coolest dude on the planet right now. It is very sad and telling of the pathetic macho culture of America that the three truly and utterly bravest people it has are an openly gay lawyer that has to reside in Brazil, a transgender male thrown into the deepest of state prisons and an everyday computer nerd trapped in Russia with no real status anywhere, not one of which has murdered the citizens of a foreign country to gratify their masters. And you wonder why the world laughs at you!!!
LMAO about the three bravest guys on the planet being gay, trans, and nerdy. ZeusRocks!
g.orwell at his best could not improve on this…..!
Thanks for this. About time someone told it like it is. And let’s not forget that despite the Saudis claim to loathe Israel, they’re actually really close allies. Makes 9/11 make a LOT more sense….!
My initial reaction was this is an ‘Onion’ headline or a Borowitz Report. Apparently, this is what it takes to appease the Saudi’s from the fallout of the US-Iran deal. Let’s face it the US is acting out of self-interest, even if she looks rather stupid in the process. Makes you wonder what the Israeli’s get to mute their protest to the deal? Couple billion dollars in aid, a blind-eye to new settlements?
Wow! Every American should read this article
So thankful to have The Intercept.
Establishment ‘news media’ is no more than an extension of government propaganda – we see what they want us to see and don’t see what they don’t want us to see
I think there is a typo error the news should be read as …’Saudi Arabia will be beheading the UN human rights panel ‘ Seriously !
LOL! Nice one! :)
Do not blame the president, BLAME THE SYSTEM!
Remember all those Latin-American torture states in the 70′ ies ( El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama, Chili, Argentina…). No Obama there- yet all these countries were heavily supported by the US.
And what was the deal back then? In return for their anti-communist policy, those Latin-American gangster regimes got free drug trafficking lines to the States (read ex-DEA agent David Levine’s testimony ” Deep Cover” and “White Lies” ) , massive financial aid and all the army logistics AND weapons they could wish to do what?- to repress, to torture and to extort their own people.
Nothing new under the sun, folks!!!!
Blame or don’t blame whomever you like, but I have no need for your advice or suggestions or your “nothing new under the sun” excuse. I blame Obama as well as so many others. Obama is as complicit and as responsible for the mass murders and all the rest as anyone in the world.
@Kitt-I completely agree with you, completely. The current turds in positions of influence have choices. They choose to conduct themselves the way they do. Blame rests completely on the participants.
You are right Joris. The present system is merely a natural evolutionary progression of the past. Obama is merely the face of the system at the moment.
Sure, but it’s clear that Obama goes along with it.
@ Jose
Avidly. Obama is a neo-liberal centrist.
If he is not formally a muslim, Obama certainly leans in their favor whenever possible. To paraphrase an old book, people’s acts are indicative of their philosophy – I think the original says ” by their works you will know them”
Oh, you are so right. Killing their children will drones proves it.
“with”
By your logic both Bush presidents, and Clinton for that matter, are muslims. Saudi Arabia is the center of the muslim world and being cosy with them goes back quite a way. For context: I would quite like it if the Saudis got the asses handed to them by someone. They get away with everything, assisted by whomever the US president is, just because of oil.
just remember who is leading this council when all they do is unjustly criticize israel. just saying!
Fascinating. I cannot think of a single instance of an unjust criticism of Israel.
Has anyone ever said they are not proceeding fast enough with ethnic cleansing, perhaps?
Oh absolutely. I suspect that Yuval Diskin, the former director of Israel’s version of the FBI, is a secret Muslim. His criticism of Israel is pretty severe:
Do read the result from this apparent Muslim here: http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/193237/the-two-jewish-state-solution
This is one reason why the US welcomes Saudi Arabian leadership in the council. It’s a win-win. For one, Saudi Arabia is a good friend and partner in international violence. Second, if the council were to advance some substantive criticism of the US or Israel, they can just point and say: “Look who’s heading it.”
Saudi Arabia, Israel’s partner in crime
This is one of the most disgusting things I’ve heard today. And the list just keeps growing…growing…and growing. Talk about an oxymoron!
You make a lot of claims here and off little substantiation. Broad, loosely drawn generalizations are easy to launch, but have little meaning or effect. Social/cultural conservatives do this a lot. We on the other side of the aisle, as it were, need to be conspicuously evidence-based in our thinking and expression. You have not done this. That is a serious failing in my eye.
Don’t just talk. Build arguments. Back up what you say. It’s what intelligent people do. You should know that.
@ Tom Cloyd
I suggest you read some of UC Berkeley Prof. George Lakoff’s work. The vast majority of people are not persuaded by evidence and logic based argument. Either they are not taught to employ it properly, or they engage in too much motivated reasoning for it to be effective. What does motivate most people are appeals to existing values, moral structures and sense of justice packaged in a narrative that people can empathize or sympathize with making it personal. Religious functionaries have understood this quite well over millennia.
Of course there necessarily is always a balance to be struck between the two ideas of persuasion in keeping with the left’s commitment to reason based decision making. But that doesn’t mean we should employ non-reason based means to persuade (and consistent with reason based conclusions re: beneficial outcomes for the most as a function of policy or law) that the vast majority of evidence suggests is one of the big problems the “left” faces. It has failed to understand that while appeals to evidence and logic and coherent morality are what is persuasive to some minority of the left, it most definitely is not what persuades most human beings generally.
What’re you talking about? He mentioned that Saudi Arabia is going to be heading this council, and then he highlighted the interaction between Matt Lee and Toner, and then he wondered if it was reasonable to believe Toner’s claim that he was not fully apprised of the Nimr situation.
What claim did he make where there is a dearth of evidence? I’m confused by your comment.
I was too at first, but a second look made the broad, loosely drawn generalizations he launched more conspicuously evident.
GG misidentified Said Arikat as Matt Lee. Mr Said was the questioner in this exchange.
Actually, Matt asked the middle questions about the Saudi human rights record. Said initiated the subject of the condemned to be beheaded (and then crucified for good measure – and to make ISIS/ al Nusra jealous) Nimr. All questions about the doomed man are Said’s.
Coming from the man who proffered one-and-a-bit paragraphs… Practice what you preach and back up what you say, MS MA man. That’swhat non-hypocritical-&-holier-than-thou people do. You should know that. Or maybe not.
What a farce.They have sent a young man to death by cruxifiction.They regularly stone women and beheadings are common..Their human rights record is appalling.As for the war being waged on Yemen..Disgusting..
Well, I guess it will certainly make it simpler to define exactly what a Human Rights violation is.
1. We never commit Human Rights violations, ever!
2. Everything an ‘unfriendly’ does is a Human Rights violation & Casus Belli
Excellent News.. I hear they’re also designating Mel Gibson to head up the UN Commission on Anti-Semitism.
Hey,nice cheap shot!Just what has Mel have to do with Saudi Arabia being put as head of the human rights council?He does not advocate war,torture or indefinite detention.He chops off no heads(only in the movies).
What he did do,which must be the ire behind your slur,is point out Jewish Zionist support for every war,torture and indefinite detention committed in their neolicon world of hate and disaster.
Truth rankles serial liars.
What a stupid comment. Gibson was telling it like it is: Hollywood in fact does have a huge number of Jews in the top ranking positions of the big film studios: saying so is a factual observation, not an anti-semitic remark.
Regardless of his thoughts on Hollywood, the comment from Gibson at the time of his arrest:
…was not factual; it was anti-semitic.
Same goes for:
a) I think Gibson was drunk at the time, so I would cut him some slack.
b) It’s been many years and my memory’s fuzzy, so correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think anyone ever called Gibson an anti-Semite until he made Passion of the Christ. At this point, certain powerfully placed (Jewish) industry leaders called the movie anti-Semitic — not publicly mind you – but there were all kinds of rumours and it was a big topic of conversation around town. There were things they didn’t like about it — for example, I think there was a Jewish character in the movie with a big nose. These Hollywood industry leaders were also unhappy that in Gibson’s story, the Jewish characters that Pontius Pilate consults with choose to pardon pickpocket Barrabas, instead of Jesus Christ, who winds up tortured and crucified. This aspect of the Passion has been the source of much anti-Semitism for the past two thousand years, though to the best of my knowledge, it is historically accurate. Still, Hollywood industry leaders didn’t want any part of a movie that highlighted this ignoble moment in history. The whispers were they wanted to bury The Passion. Do you remember? Please correct me if I’m wrong.
With potential distributors fleeing in all directions form Gibson’s allegedly anti-Semitic movie as fast as their feet could carry them, Gibson was forced to conduct his own marketing campaign and distribute the film himself: he started marketing the movie to Christian groups, and through word of mouth and a platformed release, the movie grew and snowballed and wound up making butt loads of money, and Gibson became rich beyond the dreams of avarice. Am I right so far?
But the damage had been done: Gibson had been labeled an anti-Semite, and despite his vast new wealth, he was pilloried in the press by many and various people who decried his execrable anti-Semitism in the shrillest terms possible (Maureen Dowd comes to mind) and Hollywood insiders shunned him. It was ugly.
You’d think he could have just been happy with all that money, but my personal theory is that the attacks and smears ate at him and infuriated him. It’s pretty much impossible to defend yourself once you’ve been branded an anti-Semite. You can scramble and try your best, but you’ll always be on defensive footing and no counter-attack is possible, because that would only “prove” your anti-Semitism. And thus, when he was pulled over one night by a cop, drunk, it all came flying out of his mouth.
So I would be inclined to give him a pass. He was always BFFs with people like Joel Silver and other (Jews) of that ilk in happier years (in fact I think Silver has spoken ardently in Gibson’s defense). There was no evidence of anti-Semitism before the events following the making and release of The Passion occurred.
Besides, did I mention? He was drunk.
I think Israel heading the UNICEF is a more appropriate analogy.
Mel Gibson is NOT an anti-Semite. Some of his best friends are Jewish. So is his shrink.
There is a UN Commission on anti-Semitism? We must have topped the 1,000 milestone by now for the number of organizations dedicated to calling people anti-semites. Nothing else like it on the planet
Don’t u think its a biggest joke of the century…bombing in Yemen. Killing minority never punished any royal family. .demolished historical site. Support terrorist organization. .and after that Head of the Human rights of UN..LOL
Yes, Its a Joke… Killing minorities.. running covert operation to convert people in poor countries.. and even chopping of hands of people to … hanging them live..
The not helping Syrians even in the holy month..
Is’nt the House of Saud recycling old Roman methods; trying to up their game of supression and bringing back crucifixion…followed by coffee break and a nice date loaf, and then beheading.
That was kind of an abrupt ending to this piece, Glenn.
on well…
This is hilarious, The Australians have found “no direct link between Halal certification and terrorism”
Do Americans know what “Halal” is? It’s the Islamic equivalent of “Kosher”. Imagine if the US senate was looking for links between Kosher certifications and terrorism.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-24/senate-inquiry-no-direct-link-between-halal-certification/6801968
Why is the Australian government investigating Halal? Supposedly, “Australia is becoming increasingly Islamified.” and it’s “an assault on the Australian people.”
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/a-four-corners-investigation-looks-into-halal-certification-and-its-impact-on-australian-consumers/story-e6frfmyi-1227516950209
Utterly off topic…two guys, who as far as I know, don’t have any formal scientific education, Cenk Uygur and John Iadarola, but yet have enough scientific literacy to enjoy listening to neuroscientist Ben Carson’s complete misunderstanding of the big bang theory and the theory of evolution. Given the number of people running for US president at this point, how do you parody politics, when these are the “serious” candidates, that the media follow? It strikes me as dystopian science fiction when you have this mix of twenty first century university education cohabiting with beliefs in witchcraft.
Famously, medical doctor Sir Arthur Conan Doyle sought out proof of fairies. Even falling prey to two young girls who sent him a photograph of them posing with paper cut-outs of the creatures. As he said it himself, he, and his generation had been through the massive culling of an entire generation, in the first world war. And he couldn’t accept that death was the end, that it was all for nothing. He thought there had to be something magical.
Doyle was right, there is something magical. But it isn’t fake photographs of fairies, and it isn’t Dr. Ben Carson’s hilariously garbled version of the big bang. That is just stupidity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb1LgGlk3tw
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3245656/It-s-ridiculous-Ben-Carson-believes-Big-Bang-fairy-tale-Darwin-s-theory-evolution-work-devil.html
“Give us one free miracle and we’ll prove the rest…”…big bang theory…yeah ok dogma.
Darwin was a eugenicist highly influenced by his self-proclaimed polymath cousin Francis Galton.
Galton was a pioneer eugenicist, who held his intelligence over the head of Charlie; Charlie was a eugenicist as well.
Galton is the founder of Psychometrics…that gave birth to such nonsense as personality tests, IQ tests…blah.
I think ya need to do a bit of reading sport.
Science is the new religion.
BTW I am not a Carson fan.
“Science is the new religion.”
What’s interesting is that Carson, and michael here, and many Americans, see a conflict, a threatening conflict, between their flawed understanding of science and their flawed understanding of religion. I’m reminded of once when someone asked me, “well how do you know that?” and to really answer it would mean leading the person through around a dozen discrete steps, one by one, and some of the steps would require some remedial brush ups on some mathematics that probably were long forgotten. So I had to fall back on “well, I’ve been studying this for a long time”. It wasn’t a very satisfying answer but given time constraints, in casual conversation, what is the alternative when there is such a knowledge imbalance? Which is why democracy is put in jeopardy when care isn’t taken to safeguard the education of the next generation, not just for the elites, but for everybody. Because without a minimum floor of scientific literacy, the elites, can go get their neuroscience credentials, and then, turn around and do damage to the rest of us through the spreading of fear and ignorance.
Homework for michael: Go find, I don’t know, an astronomer, ask them how far away “TN J0924-2201” is, and how it is that centuries of scientific work led to that knowledge. (it will take a while) Then michael, ponder at the miracle of how knowing the precise distance to TN J0924-2201 doesn’t in any way, give me a framework of moral or ethical or cultural tools to A) sympathize with your ignorance B) abstain from mocking you C) Both A and B or D) none of the above.
Ben Carson is as scary as they get.
The word sociopath leaps to mind.
CBS has edited the transcript and video of Dr Carson’s first appearance on Face The Nation, Aug 9, 2015, to delete the opening question to Carson. He was asked, if he were President, which would guide his decisions more, the Constitution or the bible? Carson waffled a bit but came back for the bible. That exchange has been removed by CBS without comment.
Carson has been back-peddling his ‘no Muslim in the White House’ statement to include saying, ‘If someone demanded that only a Bible-reading person occupy the White House, he would be against that.’
Trump, Carson, Fiorina: A Clown, a Priest, and a Dominatrix.
Doesn’t that just describe Republicans?
a secular Muslim, Asra Q. Nomani , explains what Carson really was worried about …
Islam expresses itself violently in the West …
as opposed to the ever-peaceful way in which the West expresses itself in the East.
i have come to the conclusion that roughly 4 out of 5 people in this country are mentally ill. That would explain much these days.
@ JLocke
‘What’s interesting is that Carson, and michael here, and many Americans, see a conflict, a threatening conflict, between their flawed understanding of science and their flawed understanding of religion.”
And your flawless understanding of science and religion gives you the right to condescend to all that who would dare claim that man is possessed of the innate potential to directly experience reality in a way that transcends that which solely relies on sense-experience?
As a believer in God, I am completely embarrassed by the half-wits that seem to get all the publicity and give the atheists so much ammunition. If all I had to go by was the mad rantings of people like Carson(and there are SO many more just like him) I too would be a card-carrying atheist. It blows my mind that so many people take literally, word-for-word, a book written by medieval, superstitious, ignorant people, and these are the people running for the highest offices?! They take the book so literally that they are willing to even deny reality to prop up their psychosis. Jesus wept.
Why would the U.S. government be ashamed of their relationship with Saudi Arabia? The U.S. tortures and murders without due process — what is there to chastise the Saudis about? I guess women’s rights?
À real information .?sont much!
Why does governmental hypocrisy have to be the norm? Sigh…
The U.S. supports organized stalking on U.S. soil, so why wouldn’t it support Saudi Arabia? Why wouldn’t it “welcome” this news? Google FightGangStalking dot com. Ignore the crazy term “gang stalking”, which is mired in disinformation, with the mentally ill providing cover, but pay close attention because it could happen to you or a loved one, someday.
The following story didn’t get much coverage. Maybe someone here would want to look into it? Many are completely blind to this elephant in the room.
http://www.columbian.com/news/2015/aug/03/man-accused-bg-murder-appears-court/
http://www.thereflector.com/news/article_df285958-405b-11e5-969f-2302dc0a5a8e.html
From the aforementioned site:
September 19, 2015
Another alleged “gang stalking” case ends in homicide
A man was beaten to death with a baseball bat last month in the town of Battle Ground, Washington, by a man who admitted that he did the killing, and stated that he had been “stalked and harassed for the last six years.” According to court documents, a woman who knew both men, and who was present at the murder scene just prior to the killing, said that she and the two men had been discussing – among other things – “gang stalking.”
The alleged killer, Stephen M. Reichow, 33, has been charged with first-degree murder, for killing Brandon Maulding, 36, on the night of August 1, 2015. Both men were residents of Battle Ground (population 17,571, according to the 2010 census).
Apparently, the first report about the killing was published on August 2nd by The Columbian, a local newspaper based in Vancouver, WA. That publication’s courts reporter, Jessica Prokop, noted that Reichow’s affidavit contained a reference to a comment about “gang stalking,” which Prokop described this way: “Gang stalking can include being harassed by an organized group of people.”
This news report about the killing appeared on August 11th in The Reflector, another local newspaper. Based on the article, some of the facts of the case might be in dispute, despite Reichow’s confession. Reichow reportedly told the police that Maulding and the woman who knew both of the men (Anne Tanninen), said that he – Reichow – was one of the stalkers, rather than a stalking victim. The article also notes that “According to documents…Tanninen…told Reichow and Maulding that she was being gang stalked.” The article is vague about whether that statement came from Reichow or Tanninen, although, presumably, the court documents are clear on that point.
In any case, the incident raises the obvious question of how the persons involved in this homicide apparently became convinced that organized stalking tactics (illegal surveillance and psyops methods) were being used against one or more of them. Unfortunately, the article does not explore that question. That is typical of such local news reports, despite the fact that they now appear across the nation several times each year. In defense of the local reporters, it would be very difficult to get a quick take on the subject when facing a publishing deadline. More frustrating is the fact that – with few exceptions – national corporate news media outlets won’t touch the subject with a ten-foot pole.
I am not sure this article is correct. I just think the Saudis have joined and become the head. I can’t imagine putting Saudi Arabia in charge with their horrible record on human rights.
It is true. The only error in the article is the identity of the questioner; Said Arikat, not Matt Lee.
QUESTION: Do you think that they’re an appropriate choice given – I mean, how many pages is – does Saudi Arabia get in the Human Rights Report annually?
MR TONER: I can’t give that off the top of my head, Matt.
Mr Toner seems to think Matt asked that question.
The first questions, the ones regarding the young Nimr, are Saud’s. The middle as about Saudia’s chair are from Matt. The final q re Nimr is Said again. Watch the video.
I don’t know why some countries are friendly with the U.S. Don’t they know that once they deviate from whatever the government wants them to do that they’re the next country to be bombed?
Let’s face facts. America has no allies. We only have countries to bully and use at our convenience. One of these days, a country will take a stand against America. It may not happen during my lifetime but you can only be hit on the head so often before you begin to fight back.
Well Brazil is definitely a thorn for the US.
I’m sure they realize a country could easily fall out of favor with the US — and it’s happened many times. But that’s only the case when the country’s ruling class is replaced (typically after the masses take charge of the country via elections or revolution.) The old ruling class would generally welcome US destabilization in such a scenario.
The documentary BITTER LAKE by Adam Curtis sheds a lot of light on the origins of this relationship: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hdcji
Thank you. Haven’t finished watching the entire series..but the first one was fascinating. Thanks again
The US like to bash the UN. It saves a lot of money they need otherwise.
It appears that you could not be more wrong if you tried, doesn’t it.
https://www.rt.com/news/316348-saudi-royals-letter-replace-king/
A letter has been allegedly circulating among members of the Saudi royal family, with warnings that the House of Saud may be losing its grip on power. The letter containing a number of political accusations is said to be penned by an unnamed royal himself.
“We [have] got closer and closer to the fall of the state and the loss of power,” online news portal Middle East Eye cited the letter on Tuesday. Signed by “a descendant of the King Abdulaziz of the House of Saud,” the letter is said to have been written by the late king’s grandson, who confirmed to MEE he was the author, but asked not to be named “for fear of negative repercussions.”
snip
What a catastrophe !
Glenn,
This is horrific, but I have a minor pick.
The International Business Times reports:
Strictly speaking, strapping his body to a cross and leaving it to rot is barbaric, but it is not crucifixion.
Jeff
The following is especially illustrative of Saudi Arabia’s human rights viewpoint, and a footnote on the complicity of western powers in it all.
Some 25 years ago, Canadian citizen Bill Sampson was arrested along with other Westerners working for contractors in Saudi Arabia for car bombings and murder. The Saudi claim was that they were involved in something of a gang war among foreigners over distribution of alcohol.
Sampson was tortured and raped over a more than two year period in spite of the fact that he had confessed in fairly short order after arrest.
He appealed to Canada for help. However, inexplicably, Canada either did nothing, or appeared to side with the Saudis in the various encounters. He then appealed to Britain where he had been born before emigrating to Canada. After some period of time they secured his release.
The kicker in all this is that unbeknownst, then or now, there is fierce opposition to the Saudi regime within the country itself. The bombings and murders actually had been committed by an internal group seeking to attack the regime by attacking the foreigners working for it. However, the regime was not about to acknowledge such a terrorist force or give it the legitimacy of having carried out a successful hit on their authority. It was much simpler to arrest and torture confessions out of Sampson and the others, thereby sweeping the much bigger issue under the rug.
And Canada did nothing, likely at the behest of the Saudis’ benefactor, the U.S. Notably Canada doesn’t appear to hold any grudges over the treatment of citizen Sampson. It has just recently sold them billions of dollars worth of military equipment.
Madame Guillotine was a humane form of execution for its time, we are told. Beheading used to be the in thing.
Dying slowly in painful death throws from the efffects of a hellfire missile (the depraved go to choice of the constitutional, bill of rights loving Americans) seems more barbaric to me. I have only two words to say, predator drone.
Saudis have to really up there game to come near the US in human rights abuses.
America is hands down the worst nation for killing innocents.
America is hands down the worst nation on earth. The great satan.
Not hardly. But thanks for playing.
about ‘countries that cooperates': it’s not Saudi Arabia that cooperates, it’s the U.S. that cooperates
Obama will be judge for this and also for not doing anything against Daech
this printer needs new toner.
Australia got a new tony (Abbott gone), a new PM, Malcolm Turnbull. For a lib not a bad man.
Imagine if America could change its president as easily as Australia can change its idiotic PMs. But its not in the US constitution so it could never happen.
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/sep/24/environmental-activist-david-suzuki-on-tony-abbott-solar-panels-and-his-book
snip
Are you hopeful that the demise of Abbott is a positive signal in the global effort to tackle climate change?
I’m delighted to see it happen and I hope it does signal a change. Most of the industrialised world is dealing with this, even in [the] US with its completely fractured government. I mean, look at the Republicans, half of them should be in a loony bin for goodness sake.
snip
America the land of the freely demented.
What happened to Abbot? Didn’t he win an election a year or so ago? Wasn’t he the one that promised to resign if it was found out that mass surveillance was ongoing in Oz?
New Zealand Prime Minister Retracts Vow To Resign if Mass …
https://firstlook.org/…/new-zealand-prime-minister-promised-resign-country-shown-engage-mass-surveillance-now-retracts-vow/?…?
Mar 9, 2015 … From “I will resign if it’s shown we engage in mass surveillance of New … itself, the Key government has easily been the most dishonest over the last 20 …. But now that it’s passed Keys can afford to paste his nameplate on his …
Australia and New Zealand are like cousins but they dont kiss when they play rugby.
Abbott was brought to heel by the Liberal Party (our liberal party are conservatives, labor party more like democrats) for being a micro manager idiot under the helm of Peta Credlin
Peta Credlin – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peta_Credlin
Wikipedia
Peta Credlin (born c. 1970) is an Australian political adviser who served as chief of staff to former Prime Minister Tony Abbott. Credlin achieved prominence …
https://theintercept.com/2015/03/09/new-zealand-prime-minister-promised-resign-country-shown-engage-mass-surveillance-now-retracts-vow/?comments=1
Always spot on Glenn! When will the world finally wake up and realize the depravity of these un-American officials? I say un-American because that is what they are. They are anti-thesis to our values enshrined in the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights.
This is so utterly disgusting that I had to rack my brain to write something, anything to feel a bit better. I’ve also been thinking about the whole Volkswagen thing and not least, about the way it suddenly appeared curiously at this time. All these things are unbearably corrupt. So I’ve come up with some future-looking reasoning just to feel better:
This level of depravity can only have two consequences: 1) There is a big community of intelligence and service people out there. They feel as disgusted as we do, even more. You just can’t play with their sense of right and wrong in this manner. They will explode. I am waiting to see that, and will I relish it. 2) To stop those people going ballistic, you somehow have to corrupt them. There is no other way of keeping them in line. It has already happened in the UN.
So, knowing that these corrupt governing lot are heading for one of those consequences gives me some comfort. I’ll get my popcorn and watch them reap what they sow.
Saudi Arabia is the only country that can make the US human rights record look good. The UN is a failed institution.
There is little that can be added to Mr. Greenwald’s report, except to state that the hypocrisy of the United States government, and its mouthpieces, renders one speechless.
Thankfully, it’s becoming extremely difficult to hide the truth about our goals, one of which is our insidious and relentless drive to colonize the entire planet.
.
.
2015 Beheading Rate To Date:
Saudi Arabia = 110___ISIS = 65
To demonstrate their appreciation for “heading” the U.N. Panel, the Saudi Kingdom is on the track to exceed the current “be-heading” record of 192 per year.
{Quote:
“Over the past 12-months, Saudi Arabia has beheaded at least 175 people, including mentally disabled individuals and children that were under 18, according to a new report by Amnesty International.
The House of Saud, under King Salman, currently executed 110 people convicted of crimes thus far in 2015, putting it on a pace to surpass its 1995 record number of 192 executions for the calendar year.
To highlight the Saudi’s unbridled brutality, by comparison, ISIS is reported to have beheaded 65 people since the beginning of this year. That number is slightly over half the number of individuals executed by Saudi Arabia in the same period.”
End Quote}
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/saudi-arabia-beheaded-people-isis-2015/
.
.
From: Freedom House:
{Quote:
“Consistently ranked as one of the worst humans rights violators in the world, Saudi Arabia is currently rated by Freedom House as one of only ten nations on the planet that are “not free.” They have earned the absolute lowest score possible.”
End Quote}
https://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2014/saudi-arabia#.Vd06ic669GS
Ok. Here is a possible scenario. At the last minute, the US gets the Saudis to relent in killing the dissident, allowing him to seek political asylum in the US.
This archives 2 goals. Allows the Saudis to appear less odious on the Human Rights commission, and allows the US to appear to care about human rights in general, while the USA’s number one dissident is in exile in Russia.
He means it, and he’s being completely rational. Here’s the mission of the Human Rights Council:
Here are some articles from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
It absolutely makes sense that the US would be happy to have a friendly country — preferably a partner in international human rights violations — head the OHCHR.
Put a bloodstained tyranny in charge of a human rights panel? “We would welcome it.” If that’s what it takes, Glenn, next thing you’ll be telling us the U.S. would be putting bankers in charge at Treasury and the SEC, or known war criminals in US circuit courts and the UC Berkeley law school.
Unimaginable.
Yes, such appointments hearken up memories of Lyndon Johnson’s appointment of Allan Dulles to head up the investigation of JFK’s assassination. Or, for that matter, George Bush’s appointment of Phillip Zelicow as the Executive Director of the 9/11 Commission.
https://www.corbettreport.com/learn-history-with-philip-zelikow-video/
I like the photo.
Director Central Intelligence January 30, 1976
Washington DC
Dear S?a?u?d?i? ?A?r?a?b?i?a? House of Saud.
Please make sure we have enough oil for today.
In exchange we will let you do as you please.
If that’s not enough, then we pledge to fight your wars for you.
We will assist you with your domestic political oppression, we will allow you to give kickbacks to deserving US contractors and US politicians, we will proactively remove any threat to you in the region, and we will ignore all violations of liberal Western morality.
This agreement will continue in perpetuity.
Yours very truly,
George H W Bush
DCI
January 30, 1976
I think “we are close allies” says it all. UN has no power. USA is dependent on Saudi oil and money. Whether Saudi Arabia is “evil” or not has never had anything to do with US foreign policy. USA gladly supports dictatorships if it somehow provides benefits.
Setting the bar so low it will not be violated is like building the Hover Dam with one brick. It’s not really going to stop anything is it.
The way the Colorado River basin is drying up, one brick might do. You’d need Hoover Dam, however, to hold back the amount of blood that the Saudi regime has spilled.
Now hold it one darn minute there, Mister Greenwald!!!
Next you’ll be suggesting THEY (whoever is actually running this place) un-redact those redacted 28 pages of the 9/11 Commission Report (the pp. verifying that 9/11 was a joint US-Saudi operation)!
Now I am not particularly taken aback by this, given that the present secretary of state, John Kerry (or should I say John Forbes-Dudley-Winthrop Kerry) is the great-grandson of Francis Blackwell Forbes, one of the biggest — or was the biggest — drug dealer in China way back when (that would have been opium).
And, if I recall correctly, the previous sec’y of state was Hillary Clinton who sat on the MCC when it was financing the overthrow of the democratically-elected government of populist, President Zelaya, of Honduras, eventually leading to news reports of large numbers of Honduran children crossing the southern border into the USA.
Not really surprised one bit . . . .
Truly, you tell a person’s character by the company — or devils — they keep!
“But it’s also profoundly revealing. The close U.S./Saudi alliance and the massive amount of weapons and intelligence lavished on the regime in Riyadh by the west is one of the great unmentionables in western discourse. (The Guardian last week published an editorial oh-so-earnestly lamenting the war in Yemen being waged by what it called the “Saudi-led coalition,” yet never once mentioned the rather important fact that the Saudis are being armed in this heinous war by the U.S. and U.K.”
Even if one ignores the fact that this article utterly fails to provide the historical context from which the U.S. and Saudi government draw their current diplomatic postures, the absence of its realpolitik perspective is astounding. The Obama administration’s approval of U.S. arms sales to Saudi Arabia is largely driven by the understanding that their will never be an absence of available military hardware for those that have the means to pay. For instance, the Russians are very aggressively pursuing a relationship with the Saudis in direct competition with the U.S.. while at the same time courting favor with 6 other countries including Iran, Syria, Algeria, Pakistan, and the UAE. Between 2010 and 2014, Russia increased its market share share of global arms sales by 37 percent. During that same period of time, China’s arms exports have risen 143 percent; It is now the third largest exporter of Military equipment. In spite of its best efforts, the EU has now fallen to forth place.
http://www.ibtimes.com/saudi-arabia-russia-military-teaming-riyadh-wants-russian-weapons-after-years-buying-2046488
According to a link provided , Saudi Arabia was NOT “chosen to head a U.N. Human Rights Council panel:
“What has happened is that Saudi Arabia is now a member of the advisory committee that produces recommendations to the president of the Human Rights Council who makes final decisions regarding the appointing of mandate holders. The composition of the advisory group is five representatives from all regions. It is a rotation within regions, so nobody appoints anybody. The real problem is that Saudi Arabia was appointed to the Human Rights Council and its being a member of the advisory committee is just a logical consequence. And the UN is not responsible for the appointment in any way.”
And, again:
“Within the Council, Saudi Arabia is part of the Asian group, and as per standard UN practice, the groups nominate their representatives, usually by rotation and by consensus. According to reports, the other current members of the consultative group are Algeria, Chile, Lithuania, and Greece. These countries are drawn from 47 members of the UNHRC, who are elected according to their regions, and the regions represent Cold War-era thinking and geopolitics—13 from Africa, 13 from Asia, six from Eastern Europe, eight from Latin America and the Caribbean, and seven from Western Europe and other countries.
Thus, when the U.S. says that it “welcomes” the appointment of Saudi Arabia to a leadership position on the U.N. Human Rights panel, it is doing little more then giving its tacit approval of an U.N. internal political process through which Saudi Arabia ‘s “logical assent” yo the panel occurred. Given the United States contempt for international diplomacy in the post-911 era, one would think that this validation of the United Nation’s role in world affairs would be a welcome change to those on the left end of the political spectrum.
The United States, Russia, and China are all permanent members of the U.N. Security Council whose primary responsibility is the maintenance of international peace and security.
Correction: “…while at the same time courting favor with 56 other countries”…”
“Given the United States contempt for international diplomacy in the post-911 era, one would think that this validation of the United Nation’s role in world affairs would be a welcome change to those on the left end of the political spectrum.”
Huh? How does allowing Saudi Arabia anywhere near this panel offer “validation of the UN’s role in world affairs”? It’s an example of them being co-opted (yet again). Nothing more.
Cold war fearmongering, eleventy dimensional chess, with a side of concern trollery.
Brava! Brava!
One subject the Pope might mention to Congress: the profits made by capitalists supporting and promoting American wars. It was not so many years ago that Congress would gladly pass the nuclear resolution with Iran. But the corporate lobbies, through their paid “elected” representatives, insist on more high-margin weapons rather than talks. A nation that values violence over peace is doomed to self-destruct. That is something the denizens of D.C. need to hear.
“Being at the service of dialogue and peace also means being truly determined to minimize and, in the long term, to end the many armed conflicts throughout our world. Here we have to ask ourselves: Why are deadly weapons being sold to those who plan to inflict untold suffering on individuals and society? Sadly, the answer, as we all know, is simply for money: money that is drenched in blood, often innocent blood. In the face of this shameful and culpable silence, it is our duty to confront the problem and to stop the arms trade.”
Thank you, Papi!
What a joke? Saudi Arabia, the purveyor and facilitator of the worst kind of religious fundamentalism is buddy buddy with the self proclaimed Human Rights Champions of the world. I wonder if anybody even gives a crap about the optics anymore.
And kudos to Matt Lee. I don’t know how he’s kept his job all these years.
Thanks for this piece Glenn.
The Intercept should do a “Matt Lee Cam,” as part of the new video initiatives. Every interaction I’ve seen between Matt Lee and the State Dept. has been hilarious. They’re physically afraid of his questions, and do all sorts of uncomfortable contortions when coming up with answers for him.
Except that in this case it was Said Arikat asking the questions, not Lee/
Said initiated the subject and asked all of the questions concerning the young Nimr. Lee asked the middle questions re the Saudi chairmanship. Take my word or watch the video. It makes little difference who asked what. I appreciate their efforts and Glenn’s to expose Foggy Bottom’s vicious hypocrisy.
@ Glenn Greenwald
And by the way, I stumbled on this the other day. Ever heard of this guy? I’d bet he’s eating a lot of crow over the last couple of years after writing this bullshit about you. Too bad you probably never saw it and called him out on it. Although there so many irrelevant ankle biters trying to take shots at you, it never ceases to amaze me the level of restraint you show in not taking the bait very often when there are nearly unlimited opportunities to fuck with your detractors for their vapidity and stupidity. It’s a distraction I’m sure, and seems to me you’ve always done a great job of managing that sort of annoyance in your life. Hopefully you never let it get you down.
http://thedailybanter.com/2013/06/the-daily-banters-official-helpful-media-guide-for-interacting-with-glenn-greenwald/
Funny thing is that when I read the subheadings in the “article” (don’t want to read it really), I agreed with all the points this brilliant joker was making.
1. Glenn Greenwald Is Always Smarter/Better Than You [check]
2. Glenn Greenwald Is Always Right [check]
3. Glenn Greenwald Is Almost Certainly Going To Call You Names at Some Point [and check]
I can’t tell you the state of risible delirium I find myself in whenever Glenn Greenwald picks a fight. It’s the best.
LOL
@ rrheard/Glenn Greenwald
It appears that numerous writers at this site, The Daily Banter, have been assailing both the journalistic veracity and credibility of Glenn Greenwald, the motives of Edward Snowden, the loyalty of the likes of Mona Holland, and even the very existence of THE//INTERCEPT for several years.
While I agree with the contention that engaging on a regular basis with this sort of nonsense can be a waste of time, I have often thought that an occasional well-sourced refutation, in the form of a dedicated article, would serve an informed readership well.
Here are a couple other “hit pieces” that cry out for refutation.
http://thedailybanter.com/2014/06/a-response-to-charles-pierce-yes-paul-rieckhoff-did-wipe-the-floor-with-glenn-greenwald/
and
http://thedailybanter.com/2014/03/award-winning-journalist-thomas-ricks-goes-to-war-against-greenwald-on-russia-silence/
“Work is love made visible.” KG
As Usual,
EA
Glenn has occasionally responded at length to some “critics,” especially some who keep repeating the same refuted criticisms again and again. It is important, as you wrote, to sometimes deal with the critics rather than let it fester or grow. I’ve suggested as much myself to Glenn at times. The link below is an example of one detailed response that he wrote back when The Intercept was in its infancy. I think the original was posted on his blog but widely published. In the link I’m using here it had been transferred to Information Clearinghouse.
Glenn Greenwald responds to critics
Can’t counter those arguments because by doing so you give them credence as being accurate and strong enough to be worthy of a response.
It’s one thing to have well-cited criticism with accurate information. But it’s another to have posts saying that such and such journalist wiped out GG don’t even contain the video to let us determine who won what.
Executions of any sort are a show of power by the state, to show all that ;this is what we can do to those who go against our system. They are disclosed to or displayed to the state to set an example. To those who look the other way the US Government is often friendly to as Mr. Greenwald points out in this good article. How can the State Dept. not know about this? It’s just another one of many dirty secrets by the US. I hope a lot of people keep the outrage going to show all the hyprocracy that’s be carried out by the US.
The other interesting thing about this incident is Mr. Toner.
I mean what kind of capacity for hypocrisy and bullshit (not to mention ability to sublimate all the cognitive dissonance in your life) do you have to possess to get up there and answer the way Mr. Toner did? I mean it really boggles my mind that I live amongst people like that. So interested in career, their own family’s material well being, that they’d get up for a living and spew deflection and bullshit instead of succumbing to the urge to say, “you’re right, the Saudi regime is one of the most morally backwards and repugnant regimes in the world. It shocks me that anyone in this once great nation has anything whatsoever to do with them as a nation, other than to call them out publically for international sanctions, rather than consider them an ally. I guess that makes my government the biggest of the big among hypocrites. The Saudis are one of the primary financial sources of international terrorism and spread of religious fundamentalism. If we were going to make war on any nation in the name of ‘human rights’ it should be Saudi Arabia.”
I guess I can only dream somebody in the US government will have that momentary clarity of morality some day in the future. And act on it publically.
I mean it really boggles my mind that I live amongst people like that.
Geez, I’ve been feeling this way since at least the 1980s.
A thousand thanks, chum!
“All governments lie, but disaster lies in wait for countries whose officials smoke the same hashish they give out.”
The nature of power is such that you have to profess to like the cool aid that you are forced to drink and dispense in order to rise to the top. Hmmmm… hashish!
etymology of assassin:
1525-35; < Medieval Latin assassin? (plural) < Arabic ?ashsh?sh?n eaters of hashish
I think that maybe I.F. Stone was being a bit coy in the use of the word "hashish."
You forget the number one qualification for Spokesperson, above all else, is an advanced ability to dissemble, feign and be obedient. His C.V. is just to fashion the soap-box he stands on and sell him to the press and on to the people.
He is “only following orders”!
The Saudis do nothing wo the Zionists permission.
Why have they been given a pass about 9-11 and the 28 pages by the Ziomedia.Why is the Zionist Saudi alliance against Syria given protection?Why is their war on Yemen obscured?
The USA,by our government officials total subservience to Israeli wishes,shows it is indeed Israeli occupied territory.
And the UN has been destroyed by the stooge Moon,another S.Korean loonie,exposed by these appointments,so all this opprobrium towards the Saudis is somewhat misplaced,and I’m sure the blood we’ve spilled from ww2 onwards would fill Lake Powell and Lake Mead,and make Saudi victims blood a puddle,pretty large,and increasing,but dwarfed by ours.
….Mr. Greenwald….I would tend to believe that Mr. Toner does not know, rather than he is lying….he is but a puppet…not paid to “know ” because then he might have to “feel” and then he would be worthless in that position…
….good that we(?) welcome those who engage in creative methods of death for World viewing….sweet…
@ Glenn
Here’s my only issue with this piece and it is a minor one. I agree this is bad:
Imposing a death sentence against a minor (or anyone of any age) for “engaging in demonstrations” is the epitome of “tyrannical depravity”. But the above reads like it is the type of execution that is “tyrannical depravity.”
My issue is that the means of execution is irrelevant to the depravity of the act in most instances. Why is it more depraved to behead someone as opposed to say painful poison over 10 minutes, or electrocute, guillotine, hang by the neck until dead or subject to firing squad? I’d argue that beheading (assuming they do it in one blow), guillotine and firing squad are the most “humane” of a bunch of fundamentally inhumane barbarous acts.
America has executed 20 individuals thus far by poison, and probably most if not all were convicted (rightly or wrongly) of murder. Saudi Arabia 5X as many and often for much more absurd reasons like witchcraft or “demonstrating” against the monarchy. But America executes those convicted of crimes while minors and the cognitively impaired. That’s just as ugly to me.
It just seems to me that it is important to draw the correct distinction about what is “depraved” and/or “tyrannical” about a death sentence. In my humble opinion the existence of the death penalty for any crime is tyrannical and depraved in any civilized or moral society–in the first instance. But in the second instance, assuming there is no getting rid of such immoral penalties, it is not the means employed to execute the sentence unless it involves ongoing pre-death torture (like poisoning, hanging or electrocution) that is “depraved” and “tyrannical”, but rather the lack of symmetry between the “crime” committed and the sentence of death imposed.
I guess I’m one of the few human beings that sees that as the real issue. It turns my stomach no matter what means are employed by the state to take a life–whether it be knife, club, bomb, bullet, guillotine, gas, burning, poison, electrocution, beheading, hanging, firing squad, . . . dead is dead. I seriously doubt the deceased or his family members or loved ones (assuming he/she has any) ultimately have much of a preference about the method, although I’m sure some do particularly if they choose or are forced to watch the sentence be imposed.
But again, I don’t thing there is anything necessarily wrong with the way you framed this matter and I’m thankful as always you write about it. I think America’s relationship with the fucking depraved and backward regime of Saudi Arabia is the perfect exemplar for everything that is wrong with America and the monumental hypocrisy, immorality and depravity at America’s core. But I generally could care less, except in a general empathetic sense for individual Saudis, about what happens in Saudi Arabia. That is for Saudi citizens to solve. My problem is America facilitating it, condoning it or profiting from it in any way. Because it makes us all hypocrites every time we buy a gallon of gas.
I dream of karma coming around some day and biting all the backward Saudi Royals in the ass by being rounded up by the regular citizens of Saudi Arabia and beheaded in the town square. It would make me a hypocrite to wish that sort of death on them, but I could certainly empathize with the rage and emotions as a human that might someday bring that outcome to pass. In reality, I guess I’d hope they aren’t murdered by their own people, but rather stripped of their wealth, all of it redistributed to their victims families and watching them all be tried, convicted and jailed until the end of their lives for crimes against humanity. Then left to rot in jail with only the bare minimum of comforts. But then again I dream about that outcome for some of my own nation’s leaders.
I’ll never understand how one man can kill only one other man (regardless of means), and he is the most depraved human worthy of societal ostracism (rightly in many respects depending on the circumstances and motivations for his murder). But you can kill 10s and 100s of thousands or even millions of human beings in the most ghastly and depraved ways, and not in the existential defense of your nation’s lands or people generally, but in the name of your economic and political “interests”. You do that and you are considered a great man. I mean it totally overlooks the important moral calculation of degree and numerosity of harm(s) committed against your fellow man. It’s one of those absurd attributes of the “human condition” that I will never be able to comprehend I guess–not logically, not emotionally and not morally. It is totally backwards.
Thank you for so eloquently expressing my feelings, thoughts and sick sensation in my belly. Could not have said it better!
I don’t think Glenn was referring to the beheading with his statement about “new levels of tyrannical depravity.” I think he was referring mostly to public crucifixion of the decapitated body.
Link
@ Kitt
I thought about analyzing it in the alternative, but I don’t think it detracts from my point. Mutilating or otherwise disrespecting a corpse by parading it around is what–less or more “tyrannical depravity” being displayed by the Saudi regime as opposed to killing someone for no coherent reason I can discern in the first instance?
My take is the real crime (immorality, tyrannical depravity, whatever you want to call it) is the death sentence and executing the sentence in the first instance. I guess I don’t think the real issue is abusing a corpse after the fact. The person is dead he/she doesn’t care. Disrespectful to the family assuming that individual has loved ones–you’ll get no argument from in that respect. Just seems to me that’s after-the-fact “gratuitous depravity” if anything but no more or less “tyrannical” in my humble opinion.
I don’t disagree with any of your assessment on the height or measurement of depravity. I was pointing out that I thought, and still think, that Glenn was referring specifically to the crucifixion, and specifically for the purpose of the crucifixion, which is to frighten the public into submission.
There again I agree, but the specific purpose of the abuse is the problem that goes beyond the disgusting abuse of the corpse, and that is, as I said, destroying the mental state of the citizens by displaying the decapitated corpse where they cannot possibly avoid viewing. In that link I posted there was this: “The men were crucified in public, reportedly in front of the University of Jizan at a time that students were taking examinations.” I can’t imagine the depravity to do any or all of that. And I can’t imagine being forced — as a teenager no less — to view this horrid, hellish state sponsored murder and desecration for any purpose, especially for the purpose of instilling fear. I have never been able to understand — and never intend or expect to understand — how any human being not only justifies those actions to themselves, but even consider themselves anointed to be responsible for such gross acts of inhumanity.
@ Kitt
Not going to disagree with a word you said. The entire matter is completely beyond me. As much as I think most humans all over the globe are basically alike, I’m the first to admit I believe their is a subset of the human population, that looks like us, acts in most situations like us, but when push comes to shove they are capable of things that most of us are not and are totally unlike us. I’m not sure if it’s nature or nurture or some combination, but I don’t think the human species will truly evolve until they invent some test and they are culled from the human population. They act exactly like a cancer or a host killing parasite. It truly is mystifying to me how some humans thirst for power and control can lead them to do some of the things they do. It’s frightening in many ways. But I cling to the idea that maybe mankind is slowly moving in the right direction and that while the arc of human justice is long it is bending in the right direction overall. I concede I could easily be wrong about that and we’ll end up going backwards into some state of Mad Max barbarism sooner rather than later. But I sure hope not.
@rrheard
“As much as I think most humans all over the globe are basically alike, I’m the first to admit I believe their is a subset of the human population, that looks like us, acts in most situations like us, but when push comes to shove they are capable of things that most of us are not and are totally unlike us. I’m not sure if it’s nature or nurture or some combination, but I don’t think the human species will truly evolve until they invent some test and they are culled from the human population.”
While I realize this is deadpan satire, I still want to point out…they look like us because they are us. All of us are capable.
Of course, I know this is exactly what you are saying, but i think it is worth repeating for those that might not realize you are joking–although the word “cull’ is a dead giveaway.
Well done.
The end of that regime’s–the “royal” family’s–reign is rapidly approaching!
robertsrevolution.net
just a point of clarification. Most everyone who’s beheaded is then “crucified,” or rather has their body hoisted into the air for public display with their head in a sack tied around their waste. It’s not really crucifixion in the sense most people understand the term.
..well, I don’t feel quite so bad now about all the torture….
…all in the details…
…thanks for the clarification….all in the details….
Why the gratuitous crucifixion of a corpse, as projected? Has the USA’s Evangelical Christian right been apprised of this manifest Wahabi insult to its sacred religion?
Pro tip: Always have a backup scapegoat, The West used to have the Jews, now it’s the Muslims.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/22/marine-le-pen-faces-court-on-charge-of-inciting-racial-hatred
Unable to get political traction any more by demonizing the Jews, which naturally would be the go-to play for people who support the “principle of secularism”, the Le Pens have deftly shifted into a call for the arrest of people who allow public prayers. Because, as you know, France suffered horribly under the Nazi public prayer regime.
The remnants of conservative France,those who wish to remain a distinct culture,are paying for Sarkosy’s and Hollande’s international debacles of destabilizing the ME,along with the other creeps.Le Pen and followers were dead set against such stupidity,and railed against it.
Why are nations sovereignty a joke to some here?We don’t live in a utopian world,where standards are equal,and non of these nations in Europe are prosperous at the moment,so more drain on nations coffers,and the people are divided.And the Israelis say good for us,now Europe will see the problems they face.Dore Gold.They chortle at Americas and Europes stupidity.
Again, Saudi Arabia is not a partner or an ally but a client regime.
And we do not shower Saudis with weapons. Instead, Saudi shower our weapons industry with money and for that they get second rate weapons. In other words, Saudis are arming us and not the other way around.
Very well written.
Another great piece.
Speaking a bit tangentially, only in America could a bunch of Saudis kill 3000 people after decades of supposed alliance but a large chunk of the populace blames it on “the Jews” or “Israel.” Left and right, mind you.
Jus’ sayin’.
Funny. I thought they blamed it on the Iraqis. That’s what was in the news…
Hey Doug,ask the Zionist media why they don’t pressure the Saudis connection to 9-11,the 28 pages,their obvious linkage with Israel over Syria,the blackout of news from Yemen,the brutal subjugation of the population in Qatar,Egypt and other gulf states,that the Saudi are helping,and our alliance with the headchoppers in Syria,AlnUSrA,IsUS and AlCIAda,and the Israeli spy art students who came to America to document the event by those Saudis.
Just sayin.
“By it’s helpful press”
Indeed!
This quote,
“We believe that any kind of verdict like that (Beheading AND crucifying)
should come at the end of a legal process that is just…”
shows exactly how depraved one must be to rise within the US State
Department. There is no questioning of the verdict.
The common connector within all US policy decisions is
Oil and Natural gas money.
The “government” of the US (and other nations) determines who to attack and
who to encourage based upon the role they play in helping them
gain greater access to petro/gas supplies and enlarging corporate
bank accounts.
Saddam was limiting access. The Iranian are limiting access.
THAT is the real real why they are and have been portrayed as a threat.
The Saudi perversities are acceptable to the corporate state because
they don’t get in the way of
access.
To the corporately reduced mentality of Washington and its allies,
brutalities are just a small part of doing business, just like
the destruction and poisoning of the environment.
To them, god IS money and they proclaim it on every coin.
“In god we trust” really means
money is god and the more money you have,
the more godlike you are.
How the Saudis chop up and slaughter their “human resources” is of no more
importance to the corporate state than how they might chop up any
other resource (except oil and gas).
On the main point, why is Obama not chastising the Saudis for presiding over the human rights body? A broader point is why is America so allergic to human rights treaties?
But before Obama signs any of them, you better warn him…the US would be in immediate violation of, well lots of them so, it might cramp his style.
http://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2013/10/why-us-so-reluctant-sign-human-rights-treaties
Nor has it signed any of the Inter American human rights conventions. More than that: If a person exhausts all the internal ways to seek redress of grievances in the US, there’s no international body they can go to as a last resort.
The U.S. also withdrew from the Statute of Rome (establishing the ICC) early in the Bush 43 years and has remained so under this administration. The statute, among other things, forbids war crimes and crimes against humanity so that’s probably not convenient now.
Couldn’t agree more. We are selling them billions in weapons a year, and the do almost the same stuff as ISIS on a smaller scale. The hypocrisy is astounding and show Obama (and every othe US politician) doesn’t care at all about any of the stuff they claim.
This is what I call journalism. Thank you!
At this rate why not just have North Korea or even the Islamic State head the Clownsil.
“…it’s hard for me to comment on it other than that we believe that any kind of verdict like that should come at the end of a legal process that is just and in accordance with international legal standards.”
Yes, if it’s deemed that beheading and crucifying a 21-year-old is somehow inappropriate we may indicate that at some future unspecified date, however if it is deemed appropriate “at the end of a legal process that is just and in accordance with international legal standards”, then Bob’s your uncle.
Change of subject?
One thing I’ve noticed by reading comments sections on internet news stories is that more people are seeing the link between Saudi/Turkish/jihadis and questioning why we are allies. A few years ago, it was rare to read a comment about that concept. (not exactly scientific reasoning there… just an observation)
That’s not really a new question. In the 70s and 80s, it would’ve been completely reasonable to question why the US collaborates with murderous regimes such as the military dictatorships of Chile and Argentina, while doing everything to destroy democratic movements in places like Nicaragua — and many did. Currently they can’t say “the Russians are coming” but the dynamic is essentially the same. It’s a consistent pattern.
Indeed. I was wondering from when they had the last GOP debate and they spoke of Assad and Obama’s red line, was there ever any actual proof the Assad Regime was actually the ones gassing civilians when the UN weapon inspectors were in town? I mean what would he possibly gain from doing that? It literally seemed like the worst possible move, especially when Damascus has more firepower than ISIS or Al Qaeda without resorting to using tactics which would draw scrutiny from the West. The chemical weapons violations at least at that point in time seem like something a different state actor in the region could do by proxy.
All covered up by the Zionist media.Why are we allies with them?(Israel)
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Barack is laughing is ass off when he heard Saudi Arabia will be(-)heading the UN HRC (see photo)
“Saudi Arabia […] was chosen to head a U.N. Human Rights Council panel ”
Can anyone explain the process? Who/what ‘chose’ Saudi Arabia? How is it done?
The western press has outdone itself on this one, I can’t find a single article in the New York Times, the Guardian, the Washington Post, I can’t find a single article on this crucifixion in any paper that that I would regularly consider the mainstream English press. Well done, a complete blackout.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/who-ali-mohammed-al-nimr-why-saudi-arabia-planning-behead-crucify-him-1520160
But maybe there is nothing to report, except perhaps the adoption by Saudi Arabia of one of America’s new legal doctrines, which reads “If we get someone to confess something under torture, then, hey, why not use it?”
This supersedes the antiquated “fruits of the poisoned tree” or “befoulment” or “tainted” idea, that was getting in the way of prosecutors at so many American terrorist trials and military commissions. Again, well done.
Other than that what is there to report? A crucifixion of someone who’s had their head chopped off? How many people has the US government electrocuted, gassed, shot, poisoned, hanged, not to mention assassinated with snipers and bombs this year? So it’s a non story. Except for Greenwald, who doesn’t miss a chance to slap down this nod to Christianity by the Saudis. What is wrong with this show of multi-faith capital punishment solidarity? Greenwald’s going after this simply because it’s a crucifixion, only can be seen as anti-Christian bias.
“I can’t find a single article in the New York Times, the Guardian, the Washington Post, I can’t find a single article on this crucifixion”
http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2015/09/21/why-do-we-tolerate-the-sins-of-the-saudis/
You must not be looking too hard. But hey, we all know what Saudi Arabia is, no use wringing your hands about it. This is their culture. There are no real liberal reformers, no hope of secularism creeping in. Historically the only serious opposition to the regime has been from even more conservative forces who feel the Saudis are much too lenient and accommodating of the unbelievers.
“You must not be looking too hard.”
I meant articles on specifically “Ali Mohammed al-Nimr”, not articles about the Saudi’s human rights record in general.
The French haven’t been as good at their blackout, several articles appear in the French press, example:
“L’Arabie saoudite va décapiter et crucifier un chiite “
http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2015/09/22/01003-20150922ARTFIG00250-l-arabie-saoudite-va-decapiter-et-crucifier-un-chiite-de-21-ans.php
Figaro is pretty big, but as I said, I didn’t find any comparable English stories in the West. So kudos.
But, the US press does seem to love a good beheading story. At least when it’s convenient.
Where do US official get their authority for this kind of foreign policy? I suspect that “the ability to fight 2 major wars at once” is the cornerstone. This essential means that the US must control the majority of world oil supplies. The CIA/big-oil/defense-industry power block, originally set up by the Dulles brothers to prevent world war, now is the prime-mover for perpetual war? The un-Christian pursuit of money and security seems to be ruining our country.
Glenn, I’m viewing this differently than you are. Putting Saudi Arabia in the Human Rights Panel might force the country to be held accountable to their human right abuses and help make the regime more tolerant(hopefully)…
through rose colored lenses apparently.
…and away from the wrong end of the lash.
I am an optimist haha..
So the glass is half full rather than half empty …
Either way, your glass is still twice as big as it needs to be.
A John Bolton optimist….?
I may be jumping the gun, but I’ve just nominated President Trump for the 2016 Nobel Peace Prize. It will inspire him (hopefully)…
For the love of us all, don’t give them ideas!
No. It would just make him believe he’s right even more. He already knows he’s right about everything.
Please.
I agree that it’s probably not the case, but the UN might be doing what the Nobel Peace Committee did to Obama(unfortunately it didn’t work)
I think the problem with Kim Jong-un is that nobody really understands him.
I think the problem with Kim Jong-un is that nobody really understands him.
Well, no one but this guy:
http://img.answcdn.com/cew/56588fea/05c66abde5c5ce87ca44d55dd17cb6fdfb5b0265.jpeg?&w=300&h=250
aha aHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah….. good one.
Ahhh… the comedy!!!
That is entirely understandable given your current contorted posture.
You know what would quickly make the regime more tolerant? US and western protection coming to an end.