There is the woman being publicly strip-searched after being stopped for a missing headlight. There are the officers coercing sex from prostitutes in exchange for avoiding arrest, planting drugs on people they stopped, cursing “shut the fuck up bitch” because they are “the fucking law.” There is the supervisor telling officers “to arrest ‘all the black hoodies’ in a neighborhood.” There are officers using templates for arrests where they only had to fill in dates and names — the words “black male” were already inked in.
Running to 163 pages, the Department of Justice report on the ongoing abuse inflicted upon African Americans by the Baltimore police is full of stories like these.
The investigation was started shortly after Freddie Gray died of a severed spine after officers tossed him into a police van following a possibly illegal stop. Just last month, prosecutors dropped all charges against the remaining officers facing trial for Gray’s death after the first cases ended in acquittals.
In the report released Wednesday, Justice Department investigators concluded that over five years, Baltimore officers made 10,163 unlawful arrests, and that the more than 300,000 pedestrian stops during that period were concentrated in predominantly African-American neighborhoods and often lacked reasonable suspicion.
To Baltimore’s black residents, the findings were hardly news.
“It’s sad that we need an official report to verify things Black citizens have been saying for decades,” Ralikh Hayes, a coordinator with the grassroots Baltimore BLOC, which denounces police abuse in Baltimore on a daily basis, wrote in a message to The Intercept.
“You’re just saying what this community has been saying for the last 200 years,” echoed Michael Wood Jr., a former Baltimore police officer who turned to activism after blowing the whistle on the department’s abuse. “There’s cameras now, so you can’t deny it.”
And as pattern and practice investigations of police departments have multiplied in recent years, skepticism is rising about what they can actually achieve. In Baltimore, quite possibly, it’s not much.
Wood said many residents were skeptical even before the report came out. “The vast majority would be like, it doesn’t matter, nothing’s going to come of it, nothing ever comes of it, so what’s the point in even making the reports?”
Some activists have lost faith in promises of reform, pushing instead for more radical transformations like civilian oversight and the defunding of abusive departments.
“We think any DOJ investigation is useless unless we are talking about divesting and demilitarizing as a solution, because they don’t cause transformative change but Band-Aid solutions and Band-Aids can’t solve cancer,” said Hayes. “The culture of policing in this city is extremely corrupt and little things like policy reforms won’t fix it.”
A DOJ “pattern and practice” report, if nothing else, settled arguments about whether there is a problem or not — and usually sets in motion processes for reform like consent decrees between cities and the department.
“They have tremendous value, without that documentation you’re really operating off a news story here and an anecdote there,” Ezekiel Edwards, director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s Criminal Law Reform Project, told The Intercept. “In many of these places, particularly among police departments and officials, there is a denial that there’s a systemic problem and the DOJ comes in and successfully breaks that wall of silence and exposes those denials for what they are.”
The investigations establish a record and can be used by communities over time to “hold officials’ feet to the fire” and demand accountability and progress, Edwards said. But, he acknowledged, they are “a limited remedy.”
“They cannot be the be-all end-all of reforming local police departments, ultimately that reform has to come locally,” Edwards said. “The DOJ can help push departments and communities and provide a blueprint for reforms but the DOJ is ultimately not going to stay in these places and the DOJ doesn’t ‘live’ there. If you don’t have real commitment by police departments, police chiefs, city councils, it’s going to be ultimately quite unsatisfying.”
That sets the stage for frustration and cynicism around these DOJ investigations —particularly when coupled with the fact that practice and pattern reports don’t hold individual officers accountable. The reports describe multitudes of constitutional violations, but don’t typically lead to criminal charges because DOJ’s criminal investigations into individual misconduct face a much higher bar in terms of proving civil rights violations.
For instance, after the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, two years ago this week, the DOJ’s pattern and practice investigation of the Ferguson Police Department found violations similar to those found in Baltimore, which helped explain the policing context that led to Brown’s killing in the first place. In Ferguson, the DOJ also ended up suing the city after officials there walked back on a settlement they had agreed to. But no individuals were held accountable.
Even in cities that do claim to embrace the DOJ’s findings and to want to work on their recommendations — as Baltimore seems to have done so far — change can be so slow and insufficient that the DOJ will actually need to return after a number of years and start a new investigation.
“The urgency of consent decrees tends to fade over time especially after cities spend millions of dollars implementing required reforms; a complacency sets in and because law enforcement institutions tend to either be inherently racist or police communities of color in ways that are discriminatory due to structural biases, police departments begin to slip back into old habits,” said Imani Gandy, a legal analyst and activist who writes for the website Rewire News. “That’s why certain cities subject to consent decrees — Cleveland, New Orleans, and Pittsburgh come to mind — will find themselves under DOJ investigation within a decade after the prior consent decree was lifted.”
Cleveland, for instance, first entered into an agreement with the DOJ in 2004, after an investigation into its police department’s use-of-force record. Ten years later, the department was back, finding ongoing use-of-force issues — and last year the city once again adopted a consent decree and is currently in the process of discussing reform — though community advocates have already expressed frustration at officials’ refusal to implement their recommendations.
Lynn Hampton, a Cleveland detective and the president of the local black police association, expressed skepticism at the DOJ’s ability to bring genuine change to what was ultimately a police culture problem — calling instead on more diverse recruitment and substantial repercussions for officer misconduct.
“People are doing it reluctantly because the DOJ and others are forcing them to talk about it, but they’re not doing it on their own,” he told The Intercept, referring to proposed reform in Cleveland. “The question is, without the DOJ, would we be having these conversations? Probably not.”
The DOJ have investigated police departments nationwide and found the exact same finding of police brutality, and murder and nothing has changed anywhere. Everyone knows that african americans are be executed by law enforcement and continue to be targeted by law enforcement today. African americans live in fear of being murder daily by law enforcement. This is state sponsored ethnic cleansing by law enforcement . When will it stop!
This was part 8.
Why has my detailed comment labelled as part 8 been deleted? It was up until about 10 hours ago. It was about how Shakeel Ahmed, an Indian Rail official corruptly vetted GE 2008 bid documents for Marhowra Project see http://gemarhowracorruptionpart2.blogspot.in/
part 7
My blog at http://gecorruptionpart3.blogspot.in/ contains extracts from Wikileaks published US Embassy cables which I filed in the Delhi High Court. These US Embassy – New Delhi cables establish that both General Electric Company and US Government officials lobbied Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, Indian Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav, Indian Foreign Secretary Menon, and other Indian Government Officials for creation of the Marhowra Disesl Locomotive Factory Project specifically for General Electric and for the award of this multi-billion USD contract to General Electric. These provide additional evidence that the Marhowra diesel locomotive factory Project was created/ tailor-made at the behest of and for General Electric. And that since before 2008, General Electric influenced the bid documents to ensure that a commercially lucrative contract and opportunity was created for itself using its influence with Indian government officials like Manmohan Singh, Montek Singh Ahluwalia and his aide Gajendra Haldea.
What GE wants to hide by targeting me.
Part 6
My blog at http://gecorruptionpart2.blogspot.in/ shows that in 2008 General Electric corruptly obtained copies of confidential drafts of the Indian Rail Marhowra diesel locomotive factory Project bid documents before they were made public by the Government of India.
These 5 confidential documents which GE obtained illegally are available on my blog mentioned above –
11th July 2008 D Loco Shareholders Agreement.pdf
?? 11th July 2008 D Loco Land Lease Agreement.pdf
?? 11th July 2008 D Loco Maintenance Contract.pdf
?? 11th July 2008 D Loco Procurement Contract.pdf
?? 11th July 2008 D Loco RFP Document.pdf
?
All the five documents above are confidential draft bid documents from the Marhowra Project tender from 2008 which were never officially released by the Indian Rail Ministry nor officially shared either with General Electric or EMD, the two bidders for this Project. How did General Electric obtain possession of these confidential Government of India documents?
The RFP for the Marhowra Project tender in 2008 was not issued by the Railways Ministry until the 22 September 2008. So how did General Electric have in its possession on August 1, 2008, the confidential draft documents dated 11 July 2008 for the 2008-2009 Marhowra Project tender? How did General Electric get access to these documents? Who gave these confidential and non-public documents to General Electric?
These internal Railway Ministry documents (still in draft form) were obtained by General Electric illegally before they were officially finalized and released publicly. This evidence confirms my complaints of corruption against General Electric. General Electric needs to disclose how it came into possession of these confidential documents. How were these documents leaked to General Electric?
What GE wants to hide by targeting me.
Part 4
My blog at http://geimpersonationfraud.blogspot.in/ describes and explains how GE effectively evaded the summons issued by the Delhi High Court and how Bracket Denniston, Alex Dimitrief, Brad Berenson, and Jeffrey Eglash the top 4 lawyers at GE, issued fraudulent authority docs violating GE’s own board resolution so that an employee of GE’s Indian subsidiary could “impersonate” as General Electric Company’s authorized signatory before the Delhi High Court in my case against GE.
This is a very serious matter and a violation of US law and Dimitrief and Berenson should lose their jobs for this and get disbarred. Criminal charges for obstruction of justice would lie. This amounts to fraud and criminal impersonation. It is a fraud on General Electric Company itself. Someone impersonated as General Electric Company’s authorized signatory before a court.
A high level executive/ lawyer of GE would otherwise have had to file affidavits before the Delhi High Court.
The GE India employee K Radhakrishnan was used to file false affidavits as part of the cover-up. I guess Dimitrief and Eglash did not want to commit perjury.themselves.
Also, it appears as if my entire litigation was outsourced by GE. The intent was to conceal my litigation records from GE. GE will not have the full court record of this litigation.
I have posted the fraudulent “authority documents” on this blog so anyone can read them.
This is where one must start to logically understand the fraud and corruption charges I have leveled against GE in India.
This is part 5 not part 4.
Days after I filed my case against GE in the Delhi High Court and the Court issued (on 7 March 2012) court notice or orders to summon GE and its two Indian subsidiaries, more information regarding GE’s corrupt dealings in connection with the diesel loco tender in India emerged in this news report.
“US loco giant pits Montek against planners
Author: J Gopikrishnan
Publication: The Pioneer
Date: March 19, 2012
URL: http://dailypioneer.com/home/online-channel/360-todays-newspaper/50852-us-loco-giant-pits-montek-against-planners.html
In the midst of political turmoil over the railway fare hike, an intense fight is going on in higher echelons of bureaucracy over the selection of bidders for two locomotive factories that then Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav had announced for his parliamentary constituency in Bihar in 2009.
In the 2009 Railway Budget, Lalu had announced setting up of one electric locomotive factory at Madhepura and another diesel loco factory in Marhowra on PPP model.
The process of selection of bidders has pitched two key Ministries – Railways and Finance – against the Planning Commission. Top officials of Railway Board and Finance Ministry have objected to the proposals of Plan panel to change the Cabinet-approved bidding process and supply conditions for these two pending projects, which have reached nowhere in three years.
The official communication and file notings available with The Pioneer show that top officials of Railway Board and Finance Ministry protested over the changing of the Cabinet decisions to favour certain bidders by Plan panel deputy chairman Montek Singh Ahluwalia’s Advisor Gajendra Haldea.
For executing the bidding process, the Cabinet in 2009 formed an Empowered Committee consisting of officials drawn from Railway Board, Finance Ministry and Planning Commission. The controversies started when Haldea mooted some changes last year in the Cabinet-approved proposal.
In case of Madhepura project, senior officials of the Railway Board and Finance Ministry noted down that the minutes of the meeting were also “changed” and “misquoted” to propose major changes in the bidding documents to favour the US giant, General Electric.
In a series of communications between the Empowered Committee members, Finance Ministry and Railway Board officials have stated that Haldea’s proposal to change the Cabinet approved bidding procedures and supply conditions would place an extra burden of more than Rs16,405 crore.
Sources told The Pioneer, in several meetings of the empowered group, heated exchanges took place and some members alleged that these changes were introduced to suit General Electric – the lone bidder for the project.
In the bidding process of Marhowra project also, top officials of the Railways and Finance Ministries protested Haldea’s high-handedness. “Haldea apparently thinks that India is a Banana Republic that can be forced to accept a con game….,” noted Sanjiv Handa Member (Mechanical) of Railway Board in a note seen by the Railway Board Chairman.
In the same note, Additional Member (Production Unit) SK Sharma of the Railways wrote that “it is unfortunate that professionalism, probity and regard for highest standards of integrity of the mechanical directorate are being questioned by resorting to sensationalism, misinformation and slander, rather than reasoned debate. It is for the investigators to determine whether this was part of a larger agenda aimed at compromising the Indian Railways interest.”
The Finance Ministry officials also expressed displeasure on changing of Cabinet-approved bidding and supply conditions. A Railway Board note of June 28, 2011 read, “Economic Affairs Secretary R Gopalan specifically asked financial commissioner the decisions of the Empowered Committee at the behest of the bidders will need to be seen with regard to their financial aspects so as to ensure that gaming by the bidders is ruled out and Railways interest will not be compromised. The minutes do not include these concerns of the Secretary, Economic Affairs.”
In a communication to Montek on February 9, Planning Commission Member Secretary Sudha Pillai questioned the authority of Haldea for approving the changed proposals, which he himself mooted.
“Subsequently, several amendments that were proposed to the terms approved by the Cabinet were also admittedly authored by him. These proposals altering the terms of the proposed contracts in significant ways were quickly endorsed by the Infrastructure Division (headed by Haldea), bypassing me on some occasions.
“However, these amendments when subjected to detailed discussion and scrutiny by the Empowered Committee were found to have serious implications which had not been adequately addressed. It was clear that these amendments were not subjected to independent and impartial scrutiny. This created a very embarrassing situation for me as a member of the Empowered Committee,” said Sudha Pillai in a communication to Montek.
Tug of war
* Montek’s Advisor Gajendra Haldea moots changing of Cabinet approved bidding and supply conditions for Madhepura Electric Locomotive Factory
* Finance, Railways officials and Planning Commission Members protest and say these changes are to favour US giant General Electric at an extra burden of Rs16,405 crore
* Empowered Committee of Cabinet objects to Haldea’s proposals
* Railway officials also protest against Haldea’s suggestions on Marhowra Diesel Loco Factory”
What GE wants to hide by targeting me.
Part 4
My blog at http://generalelectricforgery.blogspot.in/ describes my complaint that Prat Kumar and some other members of his GE team modified the original of a customer certificate issued by Kazakhstan Railways before that was submitted to the GOI on 12 July 2010 along with GE’s first stage bid for the 2010 diesel loco tender. This amounts to forgery.
I reported this to GE but it was covered up in Alex Dimitrief’s letter to me dated 3 February 2011.
I was the in-house counsel for GE Transportation in India and besides legal functions was also supposed to look after compliance. Yet, I report this violation (among others) to GE, and GE covered it up. Facing a life threat, I approached the Delhi High Court in 2012 for investigation into my complaints. GE sabotages that case while I am targeted for three years and eventually it is wrongly dismissed in 2015. And again this complaint is never investigated or even examined by the Judges who dismissed my case.
The Delhi High Court documentary record establishes my complaint. To see how the patently wrong Delhi Court judgment covered up the customer certificate forgery complaint, read also paragraph 25 of my pending Supreme Court appeal at http://seemasapra.blogspot.in/2016/03/criminal-appeal-filed-today-in-supreme.html
What GE wants to hide by targeting me.
Part 3
I have exposed in court documents how when I met GE’s Jeff Eglash in November 2010, he ended up showing me an internal GE email incriminating John Rice and Karan Bhatia, Senior Counsel, Global Government Affairs & Policy.
In 2010, when I first met Prat Kumar and in my first few weeks at GE, Prat told me that GE had bid for the diesel loco tender in 2009, but the Government of India (GOI) cancelled the bid because GE was the sole bidder and the Indian general elections were imminent. In one conversation, he insisted that the GE bid had been perfect, but the GOI still rejected it.
On or around 1 May 2010, I went to meet a senior IR official along with Prat and Ash. In that meeting, the IR officer mentioned that the GOI had rejected GE’s 2009 bid because of a mistake. I noticed this version was different from what Prat had told me. I mentioned this mistake to another GE India employee.
Around 12-13 May, Prat targeted me for the first time. I did not understand what caused it. I think now it was me telling Ruby what Tara had said about Prat. But in 2010, I thought that Prat was targeting me because I had learned about this mistake in GE’s 2009 bid.
So when in August and thereafter I complained internally within GE about targeting by Prat, I mentioned my having learnt about the 2009 mistake as one of the reasons. I could not understand why Prat had misled me on this.
After I left GE, I researched on what had happened in 2009 as I was trying to understand what exactly had happened in GE that led to what at the time seemed to be inexplicable targeting and bullying.
I learnt from news reports that GE had submitted a financial bid around 16 Feb in 2009. That there was a mistake in it. That GE had tried to argue that the mistake be ignored. That the GOI had in a cabinet meeting on 23 Feb decided that the projects would be set up as in-house production units. So it is clear that sometime before 23 Feb, IR would have formally rejected the GE bid and would have informed GE of this in writing.
I found several new reports in 2009 after February where Prat was quoted as saying that the GOI had rejected the GE bid only because it was the sole bidder, etc. The mistake was not acknowledged.
I had mentioned this issue to GE lawyer James Winget before I left GE. He told me that the IR letter rejecting the GE bid had been suppressed.
I also learnt from various GE sources including Tara Plimpton, Winget, Eglash and Dimitrief’s letter that several top GE executives including John Rice and Simonelli had come to India after 16 Feb 2009 to meet GOI officers and to try and get the tender awarded.
So when I met Eglash in November 2010, he tried to explain to me that Immelt and other GE executives did know about this 2009 mistake in GE’s bid. He showed me a piece of paper which had the second page of a news report from Feb 2009 saying that the GOI was assessing GE’s bid and there was a mathematical error in the bid. I asked Eglash to show me the first page of the report. He handed over another paper to me. This had an email originating from GE India and forwarded to John Rice and Karan Bhatia. The news report was reproduced. The email contained a statement approximating – should we let this die or should someone speak to Montek or Ronen Sen.
After reading this, I pointed out to Eglash that he was actually showing me evidence of corruption as Montek Singh Ahluwalia was the then Planning Commission Chairman and Ronen Sen was the then Indian Ambassador to the US. Both were Manmohan Singh’s men. The email showed GE was using high level GOI officers to get the tender. Neither Ronen Sen nor Montek were officially connected with the tender. The tender rules expressly prohibited such lobbying or such contact and attempts to influence the tenders.
Eglash did not know who Montek and Ronen Sen were, before I told him. He took back the papers from me. I don’t have a copy of these emails. .
This set me thinking later in 2011, as to why Prat was making false statements to the Press about what happened in 2009.
I did some more research and found that in March/ April 2009, several shareholder lawsuits were filed against GE for non-disclosure of material information. I started to wonder if GE had been required to disclose that its bid had been rejected and whether it did disclose this. I started to wonder that GE lawyers would have examined GE records/ emails to respond to the shareholder lawsuits and if someone argued that GE had not disclosed this bid rejection, then incriminating GE emails like the one that I saw about Montek and Ronen Sen would come to light.
So I told GE lawyers that there appeared to be a shareholder fraud here in that GE tried to hide that its bid had been rejected. I contacted the plaintiffs’ lawyers. I spoke to one of the investigators from one of the law firms. I even contacted the SDNY Court Judge who was hearing the shareholder lawsuits. Curiously the Judge resigned within days of my contacting his office.
I publicized the fact that I had seen this internal GE email incriminating John Rice, Karan Bhatia, Montek Singh Ahluwalia and Ronen Sen. I mentioned it in my court petition.
There has been no effective denial by GE to any of this.
What GE wants to hide by targeting me.
Part 2
I have exposed a highly suspicious contract between GE and an Indian Company called Aartech Consultants Private Limited. Given what I have exposed about GE corruption in India in connection with the diesel loco factory Project, this contract with Aartech was almost certainly used by GE to pay bribes to Indian public officials. There is no other explanation for this relationship between GE and Aartech.
Details of this issue are on my blog titled ‘General Electric paid bribes in India through third party contract with Aartech Consultants’ at http://gecorruption.blogspot.in/
I reported this to GE but once again it was ignored and not investigated. Dimitrief and Eglash did not investigate this. It is not even referred to in Dimitrief’s letter to me dated 3 February 2011.
I was the in-house counsel for GE Transportation in India and besides legal functions was also supposed to look after compliance. During my time at GE, I was asked to approve a renewal of this contract with Aartech, which I refused to do because of FCPA compliance related red flags. Yet, I report this violation (among others) to GE, and GE covered it up. Facing a life threat, I approached the Delhi High Court in 2012 for investigation into my complaints. GE sabotages that case while I am targeted for three years and eventually it is wrongly dismissed in 2015. And again this complaint is never investigated or even examined by the Judges who dismissed my case.
The Delhi High Court documentary record establishes my complaint.
@Galactus-36215
What GE wants to hide by targeting me.
Part 1
My complaint regarding GE’s corrupt dealings with PwC and a PwC consultant named Vinod Sharma in connection with GE’s bid for the diesel loco factory Project in India.
In 2010, a former Indian Railways (IR) official named Vinod Sharma, who after retirement was working with PwC, was advising GE on its bids for the 2010 tenders for the diesel loco factory and the electric loco factory.
In 2008-2009, PwC was appointed as consultant to IR for the diesel loco factory tender. PwC had prepared tender documents and scrutinised bids in 2008-2009 including GE’s bid. Vinod Sharma was part of the PwC team that did this work for IR.
The GOI issued Request for Qualification document (RFQ) of the 2010 diesel loco tender specifically prohibited a bidder from engaging someone who might have advised IR on the Project. Any such engagement by a bidder was defined by the RFQ as “conflict of interest”, a “corrupt practice”, and an “undesirable practice” resulting in disqualification of the bidder and blacklisting for 2 years.
I raised this issue with Jeff Eglash of GE when I met him in November 2010. Both Eglash and Dimitrief (GE lawyers) ignored and buried this complaint. The issue of Vinod Sharma is not even mentioned in Dimitrief’s letter to me dated 3 February 2011.
Details of this issue are on my blog titled ‘Corruption by PwC and General Electric Company in Marhowra diesel locomotive factory Project’ at http://gemarhowracorruption.blogspot.in/
I was the in-house counsel for GE Transportation in India and besides legal functions was also supposed to look after compliance. Yet, I report this violation (among others) to GE, and GE covered it up. Facing a life threat, I approached the Delhi High Court in 2012 for investigation into my complaints. GE sabotages that case while I am targeted for three years and eventually it is wrongly dismissed in 2015. And again this complaint is never investigated or even examined by the Judges who dismissed my case.
The Delhi High Court documentary record establishes my complaint.
Boiled down version for everyday comments:
“GE disqualified themselves by hiring a consultant that was disallowed by the IR, due to conflict of interest implications and ignored inside counsel’s warnings of conflict of interest.”
Also, if your having issues with judges on a particular bench, can you not change venues? Move the case to another circuit? Possible?
You should also consider filing in the US and where else possible.
Just to point out the two Judge Bench which finally wrongly dismissed my corruption case against GE in the Delhi High Court comprised of Judge Valmiki Mehta and Judge P S Teji.
Here are some relevant links –
http://barandbench.com/will-withdraw-judicial-work-mr-shah-valmiki-mehta-jj-cji-thakur-warns-centre/
https://indiankanoon.org/doc/1768087/
http://barandbench.com/well-look-into-it-cji-thakur-justice-gogoi-spat-with-lawyer/
http://www.legallyindia.com/scoi-reports/lawyer-points-out-sc-judge-had-met-a-litigant-judge-orders-disciplinary-complaint-vs-bar-councils
Only A Few Bad Apples
The one phrase I’ve come to hate is that the systemic police brutality problem is a case of a few bad apples, as if every employed police officer isn’t to blame because they refuse to testify against their coworker and submit to the code of silence.
A police officer’s Code Of Silence is the very definition of obstruction of the law. They are direct witnesses to a crime and actually send idly by and allow it to continue and help to cover it up through their silence and inaction.
Then they always say the solution is some asinine outreach program as if society is somehow to blame for not accepting their obvious illegal behavior. It’s virtually a Re-Education Program of the public.
Replace “virtually” with “eerily”.
This blog http://geimpersonationfraud.blogspot.in/ describes how GE effectively evaded the summons issued by the Delhi High Court and how Denniston, Dimitrief and Berenson issued fraudulent authority docs violating GE’s own board resolution so that an employee of GE’s Indian subsidiary could “impersonate” as General Electric Company’s authorized signatory before the Delhi High Court.
This is a very serious matter and a violation of US law and Dimitrief and Berenson should lose their jobs for this and get disbarred. Criminal charges for obstruction of justice would lie. This amounts to fraud and criminal impersonation. It is a fraud on General Electric Company itself. Someone impersonated as General Electric Company’s authorized signatory before a court.
A high level executive/ lawyer of GE would otherwise have had to file affidavits before the Delhi High Court.
The GE India employee K Radhakrishnan was used to file false affidavits as part of the cover-up. I guess Dimitrief and Eglash did not want to commit perjury.themselves.
Also, it appears as if my entire litigation was outsourced by GE. The intent was to conceal my litigation records from GE. GE will not have the full court record of this litigation.
Also see http://generalelectricfakeauthoritydocs.blogspot.com/
This is also the subject of my SEC whistleblower complaint TCR1439646785831 which I have published at http://generalelectric-seccomplaint.blogspot.in/
So it should come as no surprise that GE executives and lawyers want me dead. Or that they have targeted me for six years so that I am impoverished. This is why an anonymous blog has been created to smear me. This is what happens to corporate whistle-blowers all the time.
Reading through this document linked below will give you more information about my situation and the nature of the threat that I face because of exposing corruption and fraud by GE.
Criminal appeal filed on 19 March 2016 by General Electric Company whistleblower Seema Sapra in the Supreme Court of India against judgment in contempt case – Re: US SEC complaint TCR1439646785831
http://seemasapra.blogspot.in/2016/03/criminal-appeal-filed-today-in-supreme.html
Seema Sapra-
“I am not an American and have only lived in the US for a year (in Washington DC) and I am not particularly tuned into urban black American culture.”
“Actually it has to do with my present circumstances. I am in India and fighting for my life against the most vicious targeting and retaliation because I have exposed corruption and fraud by General Electric Company in India. I am a whistle-blower who faces a life threat and whose life has been systematically destroyed over the last 6 years.
So my circumstances only make it possible to read about this book online or read parts of this book if they are online and free to read”
???
I spent one year in Washington D.C. in 2004-2005. You can read about me at http://seemasapra.blogspot.in/p/about-me.html
Well, you do seem to be quite impoverished, if this is you? That post would suggest you believe many, including your family, are conspiring to poison and otherwise harm you?
That’s an anonymous blog put up to smear me and it is full of BS and demonstrable lies. The fact that GE needs an anonymous blog to smear me shows the high-stakes involved for GE in my whistleblower complaints. I was an in-house lawyer for GE in India, If you want to look at information about me, read these
For more on General Electric corruption in India in connection with the Indian Rail tenders for the proposed diesel locomotive factory at Marhowra and the proposed electric locomotive factory at Madhepura, see
http://generalelectric-seccomplaint.blogspot.in/ Whistleblower SEC complaint TCR1439646785831 against General Electric Company
http://generalelectricfakeauthoritydocs.blogspot.in/ Fake Authority Docs for General Electric Company filed in Delhi High Court
http://geimpersonationfraud.blogspot.in/ General Electric substituted fake representative/ signatory in Indian corruption legal case
http://geindiafakeauthoritydocs.blogspot.in/ Fake Authority Docs for GE India Industrial Private Limited filed in Delhi High Court
http://generalelectricforgery.blogspot.in/ General Electric forged Kazakhstan Rail customer cert for India Marhowra rail tender
http://gewhistleblower.blogspot.in/ evidence of attempts to eliminate Seema Sapra, General Electric Company whistleblower in India
http://gecorruption.blogspot.in/ FCPA alert- General Electric paid bribes to Indian public officials using third party contractor – Aartech Consultants India Private Limited
http://gemarhowracorruption.blogspot.in/ Corruption by PwC and General Electric Company in Marhowra diesel locomotive factory Project
http://gemarhowracorruptionpart2.blogspot.in/ Shakeel Ahmed, Indian Rail official corruptly vetted GE 2008 bid documents for Marhowra Project
http://gecorruptionpart2.blogspot.in/ General Electric corruptly obtained Indian Rail Marhowra Project bid docs before they were public
http://gecorruptionpart3.blogspot.in/ Wikileaks US Embassy cables on creation of Marhowra loco factory Project for General Electric
http://gecorruptionpart4.blogspot.in/ General Electric corruption & fraud to avoid mandatory disclosures in India tender
http://gecorruptionpart5.blogspot.in/ #FCPA Why is General Electric bidding for India electric loco tender which it does not manufacture
http://gemoneylaundering.blogspot.in/ Money laundering by General Electric using NDTV in India
http://propagandaoutfitlegallyindia.blogspot.in/ Clifford Chance funded Kian Ganz & Legally India website target General Electric whistleblower
http://seemasapra.blogspot.com/ Seema Sapra – General Electric corruption whistle-blower: the Truth prevails
That’s an anonymous blog put up to smear me and it is full of BS and demonstrable lies. The fact that GE needs an anonymous blog to smear me shows the high-stakes involved for GE in my whistleblower complaints. I was an in-house lawyer for GE in India, If you want to look at information about me, read my blogs which are linked at http://seemasapra.blogspot.com/p/about-me.html
And everything that I disclose about GE on my blogs including internal GE documents are part of a public court record and no one can object to it being published.
I am a lawyer who in 2010 had the misfortune of working with GE advising them on their bid for a multi-billion dollar contract for manufacture and sale of diesel locos to the Government of India. I basically entered a toxic environment with rampant corruption and other illegal practices with US lawyers for GE trying to use me as a scapegoat/ protective barrier. The Indian team headed by Prat Kumar started to consider me a threat. I ended up making whistle blower complaints implicating GE and Montek Ahluwalia and probably Manmohan Singh.
I have faced the most brutal and vicious retaliation. I filed court proceedings here in the Delhi High Court against GE which languished for 3 years while I was targeted. The case was wrongly dismissed because GE corrupted the judges. There is still a possibility of approaching the Supreme Court of India.
But I did manage to generate a public court record that is disastrous for GE.
I have documentary evidence of mind-boggling corruption, fraud, forgery and obstruction of justice by GE implicating top level executives in their corporate headquarters. John Rice, John Flannery, Brackett Denniston, Alexander Dimitrief, Bradford Berenson, Jeffrey Eglash etc get implicated. Probably even Jeff Immelt.
I have documentary evidence of fraud by GE’s General Counsel who violated GE’s own board resolution in an obstruction of justice conspiracy.
No mainstream media outlet has covered this, thanks to GE’s influence.
To give you and other Intercept readers a flavor of my story:
The Government of India (GOI) owned Indian Railways (IR) requires diesel and electric locomotives which it manufactures in its own production units. The Indian Railways had a technology tie-up for diesel locos with EMD, a subsidiary of Caterpillar Inc. Thus EMD supplied spare parts etc to the Indian Railways.
GE which manufactures diesel locos was cut off from this market.
Starting 2006-2007, GE started lobbying the GOI through Manmohan Singh and his close aide Montek Singh Ahluwalia. Rajat Gupta and McKinsey were likely involved. Montek used his planning documents to project an artificial enhancement in the IR need for locos and a “plan” to set up new production units was conceived. The unofficial plan was that GE would set up a diesel loco manufacturing facility in India, and would get assured long-term purchase orders from IR.
There are wikileaks leaked US embassy cables showing the US State department, embassy and Ambassador lobbying for the take-off of this project which mention GE.
EMD at that time was in private equity hands.
Finally, with Montek’s efforts, the GOI approved two Projects (there were a couple of others, which are not relevant here.) One was for the establishment of a diesel locomotive factory. The second was for the establishment of an electric loco factory.
Following what GE wanted, the GOI decided to open these projects to private participation. Project and tender documents were created to GE’s specifications and in 2007-2008, public tenders were issued for both Projects. The eligibility conditions for the diesel loco project were crafted so that only GE and EMD could qualify. EMD at that time was in private equity, it did not have the finances required. So GE was really supposed to get the project. In the first tender in 2008-2009, GE and EMD prequalified in the first stage of the bid. In the second stage, which was the financial bid, in Feb 2009, EMD did not bid, GE submitted a bid and was all set to win as it was the sole bidder. GE however made a mistake in its bid and the GOI used that to reject GE’s bid and the tender was cancelled.
The GOI then decided to set up these new factories as in-house units. GE again lobbied and in 2010 managed to change GOI policy and these projects were again opened to private participation. New tenders were issued for these projects in 2010.
I entered the scene in 2010 when I was recruited by GE Transportation to work from India providing legal support for GE’s bid for these projects.
When I joined in 2010, I was told that GE was bidding not only for the diesel loco project but also for the electric loco project. This fact is important and curious as GE does not manufacture electric locos.
In 2010, the first stage bidders for the diesel loco project were EMD and GE. The first stage bidders for the electric loco project were Alstom, Bombardier, Siemens and GE.
The 2010 tenders were eventually cancelled in 2013 as a result of my legal case and complaints.
In 2013, IR issued new tenders again for both the Projects which kept pending because of my legal case. Finally, in March 2015, GE managed to get my legal case dismissed. It is a patent case of judicial corruption. The judges did not permit me to argue, ignored the court record and refused to decide the case because the 2010 tenders had already been cancelled.
After my case was dismissed, in September 2015, the GOI proceeded with the tenders and eventually the diesel loco tender has been awarded to GE (as expected) and the electric loco tender has been awarded to Alsom in the end of 2015.
I am a lawyer who had worked as external legal counsel for GE in India between 1995 and 2001. I thus knew Ruby Anand, who was the General Counsel for GE in India. In 2001, I had interviewed with GE India for two in-house counsel jobs, I was offered the positions, but turned them down and I decided to go to the UK for an LLM. In 2010, I was back in India and looking for a job, and happened to have lunch with Ruby. She told me there was an opening in GE and asked me to contact Prat Kumar.
Prat Kumar is an Indian from IIT, with a PhD from MIT, who worked at McKinsey and then joined GE Transportation in the US. He was sent to India to get GE this diesel loco rail project.
I met Prat Kumar, interviewed with Tara Plimpton who was the General Counsel for GE Transportation based in Eire and was offered the job.
At the time of closing the contract, I was told that GE wanted to hire me as in-house counsel for GE Transportation in India but on a consulting contract. I agreed.
I started work with GE in the last week of April 2010. I was reporting to Tara Plimpton in the legal department and to Prat Kumar who was the business lead in India. Prat reported to GE Transportation CEO Lorenzo Simonelli who reported to Immelt. Under my contract I was to provide legal support to the GE Transportation India team, support on GE’s bids for these two Projects, and oversee compliance.
My contract was signed with GE India Industrial Private Limited even though I was attached to the GE Transportation team. Both the persons I was reporting to (Tara and Prat) were from GE Transportation and employed by the parent – General Electric Company.
When I interviewed and soon after I joined, Tara Plimpton and a lawyer in her team James Winget warned me about Prat, saying he sometimes crossed the line. Tara asked me if I could stand up to him. Winget told me to reach out for support to the US lawyers if I ever felt unduly pressurised by Prat. I had no idea what I was getting into. Until then I had worked as external counsel, so I was a bit naïve about internal corporate politics. I did not see any need to be wary of my “team”.
Prat was heading the GE Transportation team in India and was closely working with Ash Nainar, (a marketing guy with GE for 20 yrs) another Indian-origin American from GE Transportation US.
The GE Transportation office in Delhi was bang opposite the Railway Ministry. The rest of GE India had an office in Gurgaon more than 40 kms away. I was the only lawyer sitting in the GE Transportation office and I was isolated from the other GE lawyers in India.
GE India used to be headed by Scott Bayman who left sometime in 2007. His replacement TP Singh lasted for a year. Then John Flannery was sent to head GE India sometime in 2009.
Ruby Anand had also left GE India soon after Scott Bayman. In 2009, after a gap of a year, a new General Counsel for GE India was recruited, a lawyer named Deepak Adlakha.
So when I joined in 2010, John Flannery was GE India CEO, and Deepak Adlakha was GE India General Counsel.
Prat Kumar was certainly crossing the line and was doing the dirty corrupt work for GE in India along with Ash Nainar. Immelt, John Rice, Lorenzo Simonelli and John Flannery knew what was doing. So did Tara Plimpton.
I of course had no idea what was going on or what I was getting into. I was warned about Prat by Tara and Winget. Prat was very rude and intimidating if he did not get what he wanted done. I was set up for confrontations with Prat and was misled by Adlakha that Prat did not like lawyers per se. Prat believed that I would do his bidding when he hired me based upon what Ruby told him. But Tara and Winget put me on my guard against Prat. Being a lawyer, I aligned myself with the US lawyer team instead of Prat.
Soon there was an inevitable confrontation with Prat’s staff. They were destroying documents that I had asked them to preserve. I made the mistake that day of telling Ruby what Tara had told me about Prat. This got back to Prat and he started to view me as a threat.
There was another incident when I alerted US lawyers on a course of action taken by Prat which was against both Imment and Simonelli’s decisions. Prat found out I had done that. I am pretty certain that I was drugged at GE at Prat’s behest after that.
I was in a toxic environment. I was bullied by Prat who used his team against me.
GE submitted its prequalification bid for the electric loco project on 17 May 2010.
GE submitted its prequalification bid for the diesel loco project on 12 July 2010.
I first resigned on 3 August 2010 as a result of the bullying and harassment. I took back my resignation on 10 August and informed GE that I was making complaints of harassment, bullying and compliance violations.
Tara appointed a US employment lawyer Anil Chaddha to receive my complaints. Tara and I mutually agreed that I would serve out the remainder of my contract working directly for her. Over the course of the next 3-4 weeks, I realised that Anil Chaddha would only be used to cover up my complaints. I was not given any work. I was asked if I wanted to work from home. I was asked to shift to the Gurgaon office. I was concerned that I would not get a fair hearing. So I emailed the GE Ombudsperson and Brackett Denniston. I received a reply from Mark Nordstrom and Dimitrief. I told Tara I had done this and that I wanted a week off. I took a week off. The day I returned (20 September 2010), two HR persons came to my office, handed me a letter terminating my contract and asked me to handover my laptop, documents etc and leave. This letter was not even on a GE India letter-head.
I emailed Brackett Denniston that day after leaving GE complaining of whistle blower retaliation and that I would approach the authorities. He responded and told me he was appointing Jeff Eglash (overseen by Alex Dimitrief) to investigate my complaints. I first refused to be part of such an in-house investigation after GE had forced me to leave. In November 2010, Obama and Immelt came to India. Obama was lobbying for GE to get the contract. I wrote to the US authorities then with my complaints. I emailed Jeff Immelt. Dimitrief responded again asking me to join their investigation. I agreed. Eglash came to India and met me at the end of November. He refused to let me speak or describe my complaints and instead kept trying to imply I had participated in the illegalities. In December I managed to record some of the facts and complaints in writing.
All through September till January 2011 I was being drugged and poisoned. I fell very ill in January as a result.
I spoke to Eglash on the phone in January 2011 when he tried to cover up saying there was no evidence. I threatened to go to court. He threatened me saying ” we do not want you as our enemy forever. ”
On 3 Feb 2011, I received a letter from Alex Dimitref saying they had found no evidence of my complaints. In fact, the letter failed to even record my complaints.
For a month I did nothing. Then I started to challenge Dimitrief’s letter in emails to GE. After I exposed Dimitrief’s lies, he responded saying GE would no longer correspond with me.
I was being drugged and poisoned and was confined to my house. In May 2011, I emailed my complaints to several hundred lawyers and hundreds of journalists. I declared publicly that I would sue GE.
The drugging intensified. I was poisoned and again fell ill in July-August 2011 The police ignored my complaints. Doctors from two hospitals tried to cover up my complaints of poisoning. They tried to fabricate false medical records including an attempt to falsely diagnose me with thyroid cancer. My family members were blackmailed and used to drug/poison me.
I managed to survive all this. In Feb 2012, I filed a case in the Delhi High Court against the GOI, the police, and GE. This was Writ Petition Civil No. 1280/2012. The relief claimed in this writ petition was:
PRAYER
In light of the facts stated above the Petitioner prays that this Hon’ble Court may be pleased to:
1. Summon the records of Respondent Nos. 2, 4 and 5 on the whistle-blower complaints made by the Petitioner and after examining the records and hearing the Respondents, issue a writ of mandamus to Respondent 4 directing that Respondent 7 be disqualified and Respondent Nos. 1, 6 and 7 be black-listed from the Diesel and Electric Locomotive Tenders (Global RFQ No. 2010/ ME (Proj)/ 4/ Marhoura/RFQ and RFQ No. 2010/ Elect. (Dev0 440/1(1)).
2. Issue writs of mandamus to Respondent Nos. 2, 4 and 5 directing them to respond to and act upon the said whistle-blower complaints in accordance with law.
3. Direct that Respondent No. 2 inquire into the commission of criminal offences (including forgery, bribery and public corruption) arising out of the Petitioner’s whistle-blower complaints and direct prosecution of GE employees and government officials and public servants found involved and complicit.
4. Enforce and protect the right to life of the Petitioner and direct that the Petitioner be provided full protection and safety and be immediately relocated to a safe house.
5. Pass such other and further orders as this Hon’ble Court may deem fit and proper.
The Delhi High Court issued summons to General Electric Company and its subsidiaries GE India Industrial Private Limited and GE Global Sourcing India Private Limited (respondents 1, 6 and 7) by its order dated 7 March 2012.
And that’s when the mind-boggling cover-up started. As they say, the cover-up is often worse than the initial complaint. As part of this cover-up, Denniston, Dimitrief, and Berenson have exposed themselves to criminal charges by committing fraud against General Electric Company itself and against the Delhi High Court in a massive obstruction of justice conspiracy to prevent GE from official knowledge of this legal case, which would have triggered SEC, DOJ and FBI probes into criminal offences including under the FCPA. You will find that GE internally will have no records of this case which lasted for 3 years and where GE was purportedly represented and affidavits were purportedly filed for GE.
As you can see there is so much to narrate. This is just the beginning.
A very long and detailed comment. And perhaps I missed it, but what is the corruption here? You mention FCPA, are you saying GE was paying bribes to India government officials? If so, please provide some details, if possible. Who was allergy paid, for what and by whom from GE?
You also mentioned corruption, but I don’t see any many examples of what actions were taken to make this assertion. If a judge dismissed your case, how is that corruption? Do you know or have evidence that monies were paid to the judge?
That’s allegedly.
BTW, I did go through some of your blog and now understand some of your frustration with the particular judges.
However, you must have known by making such open accusations against a sitting judge in his own courtroom would get a criminal contempt charge against you. Right?
How did doing this help you with your case? I’m curious.
Also, your appeal seemed not lack some legal details I would expect to find in such a filing, such as mentioning what exact laws were broken and what the civil code was for these laws.
You seem to lack brevity and conciseness of your argument which reads more like a manifesto rather than a legal complaint.
Perhaps this is due to some inexperience in writing these sort of documents. But also, why haven’t you sought help from any independent counsel or other non-profit organization to help with your complaint?
“Appeal seemed TO lack…..”
“Also, your appeal seemed not lack some legal details I would expect to find in such a filing, such as mentioning what exact laws were broken and what the civil code was for these laws.
You seem to lack brevity and conciseness of your argument which reads more like a manifesto rather than a legal complaint.
Perhaps this is due to some inexperience in writing these sort of documents. But also, why haven’t you sought help from any independent counsel or other non-profit organization to help with your complaint?”
Now I am an experienced lawyer who qualified in 1995 and I have drafted and filed cases for multinationals, Indian corporations and other high profile clients and have had good success. I disagree with these assessments of yours which probably arise from a lack of knowledge about the factual complexity of this matter and that I need to present all facts before the Supreme Court. And the pleading that you read on my blog at http://seemasapra.blogspot.com/2016/03/criminal-appeal-filed-today-in-supreme.html is an appeal in a conviction for contempt that has been slapped against me to prevent me from pursuing my case against GE. So this appeal will obviously not deal with all the facts and laws of my case against GE.
But I intend to answer the questions you raised in your earlier comment to me which are relevant.
Appeal the contempt conviction
You claim the contempt charge is due to your prosecuting this case against GE, but your own filing stated you received the contempt charge upon your insinuations to a sitting judge for directly accusing him of helping people to murder you.
It seems that you received a contempt charge for your behavior in court and not as a result of going after GE. Are you saying that any and all decisions by the judge who slapped you with the contempt charge have no standing or merit because of his past ties with PWC?
I’m not sure I believe that.
I think my appeal makes clear how the contempt conviction is related to my going after GE. You have either not read it or are selectively misinterpreting or reading it down. I have encountered this sort of disinformation effort every time I publicize my complaints against GE on public boards.
So rather than waste time and effort battling such disinformation efforts, I will just recommend TI readers to read my appeal for themselves and learn for themselves how this contempt conviction is intended to stop me from prosecuting my case against GE.
I have appealed and my appeal is posted online at http://seemasapra.blogspot.in/2016/03/criminal-appeal-filed-today-in-supreme.html
Please TI readers, read it for yourselves.
Actually your entire comment makes it clear that it is a disinformation effort.
Thanks for asking these questions. I will reply too all of them.
I will reply to all of them.
I would first direct you to my note at http://geimpersonationfraud.blogspot.in/ which describes how GE effectively evaded the summons issued by the Delhi High Court and how Bracket Denniston, Alex Dimitrief, Brad Berenson, and Jeffrey Eglash the top 4 lawyers at GE, issued fraudulent authority docs violating GE’s own board resolution so that an employee of GE’s Indian subsidiary could “impersonate” as General Electric Company’s authorized signatory before the Delhi High Court in my case against GE.
This is a very serious matter and a violation of US law and Dimitrief and Berenson should lose their jobs for this and get disbarred. Criminal charges for obstruction of justice would lie. This amounts to fraud and criminal impersonation. It is a fraud on General Electric Company itself. Someone impersonated as General Electric Company’s authorized signatory before a court.
A high level executive/ lawyer of GE would otherwise have had to file affidavits before the Delhi High Court.
The GE India employee K Radhakrishnan was used to file false affidavits as part of the cover-up. I guess Dimitrief and Eglash did not want to commit perjury.themselves.
Also, it appears as if my entire litigation was outsourced by GE. The intent was to conceal my litigation records from GE. GE will not have the full court record of this litigation.
I have posted the fraudulent “authority documents” on this blog so you can read them for yourself.
This is where you must start to logically understand the fraud and corruption charges I have leveled against GE in India.
Perhaps the comments section is not the most effective way of raising awareness. I would recommend boiling the entire scheme into a one-page summary and solicit various news agencies such as The Intercept to do an article on the case.
I agree the issues are complex, but to try and explain them with such lengthy text will only diminish your cause.
I have visited a couple of your posts and will look at some more of them.
I would recommend instead that you read through my blogs – links which I have posted here in a response to @Mona. And please go through them in the order I posted them in. This will give you a better understanding of my complaints against GE.
http://www.sec.gov/
Do you know that you can notify the SEC directly at their website? It’s right on the main page.
Yes, and thank you.
Besides emailing the SEC, the DOJ and the FBI since 2012, I have also in August 2015 lodged a complaint at the SEC portal at https://denebleo.sec.gov/TCRExternal/disclaimer.xhtml which has been assigned a number TCR1439646785831.
This complaint has been posted my me at
http://generalelectric-seccomplaint.blogspot.in/
This particular complaint was about the court impersonation fraud that I just described.
I have tried to use this SEC portal to make additional complaints about the actual GE corruption but for some inexplicable reason, I was unable to submit additional complaints against GE through this portal. I have tried this on several occasions but every time after I fill in the online form, the submit button fails to work. That my internet activities are under surveillance and that my computer is being spied upon/ hacked should surprise no one.
Just to point out, Mary Schapiro, who was the SEC Chair when I first contacted the SEC joined the GE board after retirement.
The seemingly contradictory quotes could boil down to a language barrier.
I’m not sure what explains the rest.
But it doesn’t make me want to read about you.
I guess we’ll see you next time you take a break from fighting for your life.
What’s so contradictory – I spent one year in Washington D.C. in 2004-2005 and am now living in India. Fact
So I said here in one comment “I have only lived in the US for a year …”
Looks like you took that to mean that I was presently living in the US, whereas I meant that my experience of living in the US was limited to one year. Maybe if I had said “I only lived in the US for a year”, you would not have misinterpreted me, but technically my language could also mean what I intended.
As I said, you can read about me at http://seemasapra.blogspot.in/p/about-me.html
I am a whistleblower against General Electric Company and I have an interesting story to tell.
I am a published author in English which I consider my first language, so I don’t envisage any language barrier in communicating with people on the Intercept.
Your “technically” argument does not jibe with how it would normally be expressed in American English. There are differences.
I would suggest “I once lived in the US for a year”.
See my response to your comment below.
OK. So maybe, “I once lived in the US for a year” would have conveyed what I meant in the best way.
But your response seemed to suggest that I was deliberately misleading and even after I clarified, you continued to suggest that I deliberately intended to mislead or worse that I was somehow for language or other reasons unable to communicate coherently.
Well, you now know what I meant, so I would end it here, except for pointing out that I do not, and I think not many others, focus on achieving technically perfect American or British English when they post comments on sites like this. And further in today’s world there is no normal, correct English in my view. The use of language today has become quite fluid and that is a good thing provided that the point of clear communication is not defeated.
The headline says it all. This report is just a way to try to appease people. It’s absolutely meaningless without some serious penalties for the cops, starting with not only firings but with also criminal prosecutions. Of course all talk and no action is exactly what we should expect from the regime of a corporate Democrat like Obama. If it were a Republican regime, we wouldn’t even get the talk, so I guess there’s that.
You do realize that these officers WERE prosecuted and the main case ended in mistrial? You do realize the two officers with the worst charges were black? You do realize that it’s a GOOD thing that the DOJ got involved? You do realize every one of these officers will likely get fired?
BPD was / is a police force in total disorder on every front, it’s not just a racism problem there. There are many local forces in trouble like this.
What do you expect Obama to do? Do you think he has the power to force every department to take action? Of all the people to blame, Obama is the wrong target. And if you believe Republicans are inherently the enemy, sir, wake up. You need votes from the majority to produce change. Not all Republicans are evil rednecks.
Things will not change in the Baltimore Police Department as long as the have the racist Fuhrer at the helm: Kevin Davis. I worked with him and he was conducted a traffic stop and threw a Black man to the ground for no reason. The County Government (really the citizens) paid $10,000 for his lapse in judgment. Years later, he lead and ran a rogue undercover operation, which was out of his jurisdiction, kidnapped and put a gun to an unarmed youth’s knees and threatened to shoot his kneecaps. He slammed the kids head against some glass and later “undetained him.” The youth filed a complaint with the police department. No action taken against him but but he was found at fault for his misconduct at a court of law to the tune of $90,000 of tax payer’s money. What did he get out of the deal…a promotion. Check the public records, it is all there.
Cops like him are the most frightening part of the criminal justice system because they don’t want change. They want power. They speak out of both sides of their mouth. The tell citizens “We work for you,” while telling the cops “Go bust some heads.”
Looking to move out of this country because there will be no real reform unless there is serious jail time for bad cops. There is an old adage: There is a thin line between Cop and Crook. From my 30 years in law enforcement, nothing truer can be said.
See the 1991 movie Rush or read the book (true story written by a cop). It shows that there is NO DIFFERENCE between cops and criminals.
@Seema Sapra
Want to appear? Well, no. Black American culture developed, in the beginning, among chattel slaves held in complete bondage, not allowed to learn to read, their families not permitted to remain intact, with a slave-specific version of Christianity — and alien religion — forced upon them.
Blacks were wholly defined by the dominant slave-ocracy. A culture born in such circumstances does not have good odds.
When slavery was abolished, white southerners were very angry and proceeded to institute a serf system for the blacks who could no longer be fully enslaved. They were still, for the most part, not provided with adequate educations. Lynchings were common, as was harassment by a law enforcement that saw them as sub-human “niggers” who needed to be “kept in their place.” Black hostility to law enforcement — wholly justified — goes back to the slave-catchers and the protectors and practitioners of post-slavery lynching and harassment.
Blacks began moving north in the 20th century, but as soon as they did they ran into both white opposition to their competition for blue collar jobs, and then the evaporation of the industrial jobs. At every point in which blacks protested for their civil rights, law enforcement turned out to harass, beat and arrest them.
Then came Nixon and Reagan who, between the two, established a so-called War on Drugs, which has always been disproportionately enforced against black people. As with poor “hillbilly” whites who made money with liquor stills during alcohol Prohibition, many impoverished blacks made a living selling the latest prohibited substances. They have been locked up by the millions for it, and seen their neighborhoods turned into war zones. (Which also happened among whites during Prohibition. Black markets cause blood shed.)
That’s a nutshell history that explains why a large chunk of black American culture has been unstable. The dominant white culture forced these destabilizing conditions upon them.
For more, I strongly recommend the excellent book, a href=”http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/07/books/michelle-alexanders-new-jim-crow-raises-drug-law-debates.html?_r=0″>The New Jim Crow. This superb book sets forth the history I just encapsulated, but especially focuses on how the drug “war” has destroyed black lives, families and culture.
who doesn’t know all that? seema sapra’s point is simply this:
“The Black American community needs to create new positive cultural imaginings of themselves which can help young and old angry black men who have been targeted view themselves more positively.”
that’s right. blacks need to put some energy into helping themselves. they need to stop hurting themselves
Deadliest year [2015] in Baltimore history ends with 344 homicides
@droug – you got it.
Accepted that there is a long history of very severe and violent oppression of black Americans, given that the system is still heavily weighted against them. But adopting and sustaining the Black American counterculture of crime only makes things worse for Black Americans. It is a form of self-harm.
The black community needs to develop a more positive cultural expression that its young boys can learn from.
African Americans are citizens with guaranteed equality under the US Constitution They can organize themselves. I refuse to believe that they cannot come together as a community, and challenge and change this harmful cultural baggage that has been thrust upon them.
Oh please. First, there are a great many who literally do not know all of that. Second, there are also many who refuse to “know” it; they resist it and become very annoyed, if not angry, when one makes these points.
It’s incredibly arrogant for elite blacks or white people to pontificate in that manner. The United States and it’s white majority (majority status now ending) have no moral authority to lecture blacks about their culture. Black people are more than aware of the pathological aspects in parts of their cultures.
As a white American woman, my moral responsibility is to demand justice for African-Americans. It’s wholly and utterly inappropriate to smugly and arrogantly prattle on about “what blacks need to do” in response to the situation laid bare in the DoJ report about the Baltimore cops.
There’s more than a whiff of victim-blaming in such carrying on.
> It’s incredibly arrogant for elite blacks or white people to pontificate in that manner.
no, it’s just stating the obvious. for blacks to gain enough support from whites — which they need to achieve the reforms they want — they need to do more than cry “racism” and make demands. for blm to publicly condemn gang culture should be an easy thing to do. blacks should WANT to accept as much responsibility for their problems as is reasonable (we all should). seeing that will make whites much more receptive to their just demands. the message that whites are fully responsible for the problems of the black community will definitely be rejected by the large majority of whites, as it should be
Sometimes I simply do not know how black Americans can stop themselves from endless and violent rage. Your statements are exactly what I have in mind.
White America has enslaved, immiserated, segregated, lynched, terrorized, and wholesale-incarcerated black people for centuries, and prigs like you think they should have to listen to what it is they “need to do.”
What anyone “needs to do,” is end the racist drug war and spend some big money instead on inner city schools and social services. We also “need” to train our law enforcement so that civil liberties violations are considered reprehensible, and are severely sanctioned.
Until white America has addressed the debt it owes black America, we can fucking shut up about their cultural problems, many of which are a direct result of what we have done to their families and cultures. (One in four black males being in prison — largely for drug crimes — makes a whole lot of fatherless children.) Justice and restitution are on us.
The “majority of whites” need to accept and publicly condemn the gang culture of law enforcement that doesn’t follow the law and selectively enforces the law.
And they need to accept and condemn the power structures that law enforcement agencies report to which has been tolerating and even encouraging this official criminality.
According to the Department of Justice, what they are doing is ILLEGAL.
Own it.
i agree with all that. i agree with mona here:
however i also strongly believe that blacks need to accept some degree of responsibility for their problems if they want to make progress. that’s where we disagree. i find the intense negative reaction to that suggestion curious
Surely you can’t be unaware that whites have, for centuries, wanted to blame black Americans for their lot rather than discuss what whites have done to put them in that position. It’s offensive and inappropriate to lecture blacks on what they “need to do” when the urgent problem is that the dominant white culture needs to stop oppressing and killing them.
Racists are very, very happy to keep the discussion focused on lyrics in gangsta rap or black-on-black crime. You aid and abet them when you join in — you distract from the long overdue focus on ending the oppression.
> Racists are very, very happy to keep the discussion focused on lyrics in gangsta rap or black-on-black crime.
the only reason they would be able to focus the discussion on that is because blm and supporters like you insist that it not be mentioned, or that it’s of no consequence, or that blacks bear no responsibility for it. that’s why “racists” keep coming back to it. if it’s openly acknowledged by blm as a problem that blacks share responsibility for, and if they publicly express a commitment to doing something about it on their own, then the issue ceases to be an effective debating point for blm opponents. THEN we can move on to all the points you’ve raised. when one side refuses to give any ground – which is what you’re doing – the debate becomes stalemated, and when that happens the winner is necessarily the side defending the status quo
Found re-quoted in Rap News:
“The best white people can do is recognize we’re recovering racists. We’re born into a system that tells us we rule.” –J S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqpjSLi2Cfg
If I were informed that I was using a tactic employed by racists, I would reconsider using that tactic.
“if it’s openly acknowledged by blm as a problem that blacks share responsibility for”
What part of the DOJ report do “blacks share a responsibility for”?
The “problem” in law enforcement is a DIFFERENT one than the problems in the black community that the racists insist on raising as a distraction… so it is NOT an “effective debating point” for the problems discussed in the DOJ report.
You are changing the subject.
That’s not winning the debate, that’s refusing to debate.
And, since the problems in law enforcement are actually causing some of the problems in the black community (and not the other way around), your argument enters the realm of intentional denial… like your use of quotes around the word “racists”.
If intense discussions on DOJ reports about the criminality in law enforcement that selectively targets black Americans were a common occurrence, then changing the subject to what their victims “need to do” wouldn’t result in intense reactions.
As it is, you are engaging in whataboutery to distract from the discussion at hand.
Again.
Thank you. I will read about this book.
You’ll read “about this book?” Why not actually read the book? Too taxing?
Actually it has to do with my present circumstances. I am in India and fighting for my life against the most vicious targeting and retaliation because I have exposed corruption and fraud by General Electric Company in India. I am a whistle-blower who faces a life threat and whose life has been systematically destroyed over the last 6 years.
So my circumstances only make it possible to read about this book online or read parts of this book if they are online and free to read.
That’s awful. Well, you can read an article by the same author here: Her whole book is worth reading — and this piece only scratches the surface of all her evidence and attendant reasoning — but it would give you some idea.
If your are an Indian national, it makes sense that you wouldn’t fully comprehend the historical plight of blacks in America, and all the sociological reason why whites actually have a great deal to do with disturbing aspects of some black sub-cultures. (I have some Indonesian friends living here in the U.S. who also were terribly perplexed by all this since the African blacks they know are so different.)
Gangsta rap, promotion of criminal values, prison-inspired clothing styles and the like, are the by-product of 25% of the African-American male population being or having been in prison. The drug “war” has devastated a people whose culture was already sorely tested by centuries of slavery and then subjugation. A sort of “prison chic” arose resulting from prison’s pervasiveness in black life.
Thank you.
Being a cop showed me just how racist and violent the police are. There’s only one fix.
WaPo reporting outrageous incidents as detailed in the DoJ report — lots of them — that simply would not happen in white suburban neighborhoods:
To understate, subjecting white soccer moms to anal cavity searchers when pulled over for a broken headlight simply would not be tolerated. Heads would roll, jobs would go. Which is why this sort of outrage is almost overwhelmingly confined to non-white people in non-white neighborhoods.
Not a lot of white soccer moms cruising inner city Baltimore. Anyways I don’t believe that heads would roll or jobs. I personally knew a white guy from a good family who was shot to death while naked by the police, no heads rolled and there was no media coverage. It happens all the time it’s just not covered unless there’s a racial angle. I’m sure BPD is terrible, but that’s because they can’t afford to pay for good people and they have small pool of qualified applicants to draw from.
Actually, it is. It’s far less frequent for whites, but when it happens it absolutely is covered. This is just one of many examples. I have more — just ask.
Right, but plenty of these suburban soccer moms, and their teen kids, use pot, heroin and other drugs — at the same rates blacks do. But white suburbia would never tolerate cops cruising and searching for drugs — harassing people — the way it routinely goes on in the inner cities. Heads absolutely would roll if it did.
To that point, Frontline recently did a terrific 2-hour episode titled: Chasing Heroin. Cops and prosecutors have decided that with opiate addiction raging in the white suburbs of Seattle it’s time to look at not arresting and prosecuting, but rather at treating it like a public health problem. The show gives a nod to the fact that nearby where the blacks tend to live has seen hundreds, if not thousands, of black males incarcerated for using and selling drugs — and made convicted felons.
Now that there’s huge drug problem that can’t be ignored — with using and dealing — among the PTA moms of Seattle, arrest and prosecution seem too harsh.
You get a lot of grief, Mona, but as far as I am concerned, your posts are always right and positive. Sad to say, this country is and will be in extended sad shape. I really question about this countries legacy, which from my perspective it will be bleak.
A link to PBS’s Chasing Heroin. It’s a very illuminating show.
““It’s sad that we need an official report to verify things Black citizens have been saying for decades,” Ralikh Hayes, a coordinator with the grassroots Baltimore BLOC, which denounces police abuse in Baltimore on a daily basis, wrote in a message to The Intercept.”
It’s not sad, it’s good that our government is finally starting to look at this topic and explore possible solutions.
Will we ever see a time when we can discuss realistic solutions here? Is this just a website where we bash our country 24/7? You people do realize that we can never solve these problems by assuming our solutions are the only valid ones?
I get it. You are frustrated and militant. But get it through your thick skulls that your militant solutions are minority opinion. Change requires a majority.
Hi charliethreeee
below “Let the psycho analyzing begin… maybe you should seek counseling to address what appears to be some issues from your childhood.
What a horrible thing to say.
Too funny… apparently it’s acceptable to say most cops are racist but it’s not acceptable to tell that person counseling may be in order.
I suspect that is only true because you do not question the bullshit narrative that cops are mostly pigs upholding society that most here appear to hate.
You are a wingnut troll, and a very stupid one who has made so many glaring errors of fact I’ve stopped counting. (Especially errors pertaining to law enforcement and the law.) Law enforcement in the U.S. is institutionally racist, both in policies and in the culture of cops. This latest DoJ report is only the most recent piece to add to a mountain of evidence that this is so.
I can and will document this for anyone I deem to be asking in good faith — but not for a troll such as you.
Nobody is denying that some officers and some departments are bad. I’m just denying that law enforcement is institutionally racist.
That is not a factual error, Mona. It’s an opinion, just like yours. Neither one of us are technically wrong. We just have different opinions.
There is a mountain of evidence to support your position AND mine.
Nope.
No, you’ve been avoiding falsifiable fact claims. Good idea, given your track record. Your “opinions,” however, are reflective of your strong predilection for believing false things.
Obligatory mention of Homan Square, Chicago.
In the UK the Macpherson report (1999) found London Metropolitan Police to be institutionally racist after the death of Stephen Lawrence.
https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/2x33lq/ive_been_held_at_homan_square_the_reports_are_true/ has some anecdotal reports if anyone is genuinely looking to understand why this is happening.
There may be bigger problems than basic corruption in other places. While Oakland was losing 5 chiefs in a couple weeks the Archangel Project was still in full swing. Patsy department. I personally know they did not patrol south of 20th, west of Broadway for several months. Fruitvale and MacArthur are very different than 5 years ago. Where are the applause for ending crime in Oakland? What would it expose at 24th & International Blvd on July 4th? Buy a new couch from the furniture galleries nearby, sit on it and wonder.
Tinyurl.com/znax95a
Only the courts can fix this. If the arrest was racially motivated, the case should be tossed.
> Baltimore officers made 10,163 unlawful arrests
Five years jail time for each unlawful arrest seems reasonable.
It’s worth noting that stop and frisk was perfectly legal up until 2013. It appears that number you cite is in reference to BPD incidents dating back to 2010.
This is surely a problem but steps are being taken to correct the problem. Change can be a slow process. No need for anarchy.
Stop and frisk was merely one symbol of excessive policing practices, particularly in minority communities. The institutional forces that drove it’s heavy use have not ended; before and after they manifest in many other outrageous and unjust ways.
Your spewing out the word “anarchy” — for some inscrutable reason –doesn’t change that reality.
You seem to understand the concept that we cannot bomb our way to eradicating terrorism. So why can’t you understand that we can’t eradicate racism either?
The forces that drive racism likely may never end. But with each passing generation it gets a little better.
These things take time to heal collectively. The reason why I chose the word anarchy is because many of the very left, many here, yammer on about revolution. We don’t need a revolution. Revolutions have unexpected consequences like Arab Spring.
The solution is trying harder to make the world a better place one day at a time, as best we can. In time, enough of us will form a majority to make the change.
Solution: Stop committing crimes. Stop cruising looking for rival gang members – oh – and don’t be a gang member. Stop being out on the streets a 2am. Stop taking and dealing drugs. Stop knocking-up baby-mamas. Stop refusing an education. Stop dressing like a thug. Stop acting like a thug. Stop relying on hand-outs. Stop butchering the English language. Stop treating women like bitches and ho’s. In other words, stop all the shit you do.
If only they’d had the foresight and decency to be born a race you don’t despise.
I’m not sure why you think lecturing Wall Street and our politicians in Washington makes sense here.
The article was about police in Baltimore.
Focus.
I hope you are not a police officer.
Well, s/he certainly sounds like all too many of them.
Your police officer son acts like that?
He certainly does not. He’s not among the “all too many.” I raised him right.
As an outsider, it seems to me that while snipelee’s comment is unfair because it ignores that police excesses exist even when drugs and crime are absent from the situation and do have something to do with race, I do wonder why Black American culture has developed mainly as a counter-culture. Why does Black American culture want to appear unwholesome, aggressive and dangerous? It might have to do with perceived and experienced social marginalization, poverty, experienced racism, anger at historical and present-day injustices and other deprivations. But this kind of cultural response is a reactionary response.
Page 122 onwards from this book
https://books.google.co.in/books?id=gK5hBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=black+american+culture+as+a+counter+culture&source=bl&ots=-MXkIoLh_Y&sig=8kon39hMn9ruLwBW2e9GcJjuoYA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwji-eamzrjOAhULRo8KHX_pAlgQ6AEIPzAG#v=onepage&q=black%20american%20culture%20as%20a%20counter%20culture&f=false
is a very interesting commentary on what the author calls the urban Black American counter-culture of crime. Its from ‘Rethinking Prison Reentry: Transforming Humiliation into Humility’ By Tony Gaskew.
The Black American community needs to create new positive cultural imaginings of themselves which can help young and old angry black men who have been targeted view themselves more positively.
Just for the sake of accuracy, let me modify part of my comment. It should read –
“I do wonder why a sub-part of Black American culture has developed mainly as a counter-culture. Why does this kind of Black American culture want to appear unwholesome, aggressive and dangerous?”
When populations are trapped and deprived, things become strange. Ordinarily, the citizens would be revolting, but the odds of winning independence are not in their favor. So within oppressed communities, victimisation is accepted, then passed on. Also a lack of strong religious conviction does not help. Broken families create rogues. A study of dead lions in africa discovered the “murders” were committed by juvenile male elephants without fathers.
Like many, I’ve watched this racial inequality fester for quite a long time. There are many causes for it, but demonizing people of color might be unfair. Please consider that for over 2-3 hundred years a race has been abused in many ways, I can’t help but think that these abuses can somehow become a part of that races id. Certainly human kind has evolved over the millenia, but in certain instances perhaps a race can also devolve due to generations of abuse.
I am surprised by your comment.
Far from demonizing any race, my comment was about a particular social problem in the US, stemming from its racist criminal justice system that criminalizes African Americans who then (a section of them at least) in a perverse way adopt that very criminalization as their defining identity. And American society, culture and institutions seem to find it easier to simply accept this Black counterculture of crime rather than understand its true origins. Its almost like a cop-out from addressing the real reason why young Black men end up in crime and drugs and gangs.
This is a problem that the US needs to address and both Black and White communities need to solve this.
And you say:
“Please consider that for over 2-3 hundred years a race has been abused in many ways, I can’t help but think that these abuses can somehow become a part of that races id. Certainly human kind has evolved over the millenia, but in certain instances perhaps a race can also devolve due to generations of abuse.”
Now I would find this statement racist. You suggest that the African race in the US has degenerated. That’s not true. Every young African American young child born in the US is inherently as capable of great things as any white child. The problem is not racial differences but social and economic circumstances and life experiences that determine where these children will end up as adults.
I’m sorry you misinterperated my comment. I was merely suggesting that over the period of time stated, is it not possible that the brain can regress through reproduction to produce negative preconceived (I’m sorry I can’t seem to find the proper words) concepts or learning abilities. Again, I apologize to those who misunderstood my original post.
I don’t suggest that you have any racist intent. But what you suggest is scientifically wrong. Evolution happens over a very long period of time and genetic changes cannot happen over 2-3 hundred years, which would be the period of slavery in the US.
Also, humans thrive under oppression, they would evolve to be stronger, smarter and not weaker under difficult circumstances.
So white children are not inherently smarter than black children in America. Every new child born is a fresh slate.
But nurture has as much role to play as nature in how a child turns out as an adult. Brain development after birth is affected by nutrition, stimulation, physical activity, exposure to harmful toxins and drugs, medical issues etc. Personality development after birth is affected by social and family environment, nature of care received, nature of schooling, peer pressure, living conditions, and to the nature of the world the child and later the teenager gets exposed to.
I sometimes think that the success of black athletes shows that the African race might be more evolved than the rest of us.
“adopt that very criminalization as their defining identity”
This report suggests the very same thing applies to a “sub-section” of police culture… 10,000 unlawful arrests seems like a defining identity of police culture to me. It’s also an “aggressive and dangerous counter-culture”.
But I would also again point to Wall Street and our politicians for comparable examples.
Wall Street’s defining identity (besides dressing like mafia thugs and doing drugs) is all about who can corrupt legislators and evade taxes the best, and screw over people for profit the best without facing consequences. And they certainly do boast about it, and it also rightly qualifies as an “aggressive and dangerous counter-culture” for a “sub-section” among them.
American politicians have their own “aggressive and dangerous counter-culture” that “adopts that very criminalization as their defining identity”. Whether it’s nepotism, pay-to-play bribery, conning voters, or all the way up to getting away with breaking international law, mass murder and war crimes.
What I see in your series of comments is an analysis from a biased cultural perspective that wants to pretend that the “sub-section of black communities” is somehow more criminal and “unwholesome”, when the truth is that it’s just not the case. The crimes are just harder to hide and easier to prove because they don’t take place in board rooms and office towers.
And, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the racists who created the system of oppression want them portrayed that way and want you to see it that way.
I’m sorry if this offends you, but what you are saying seems like a more nuanced and culturally acceptable version of the idiotic “stop committing the crimes” comments we see here.
What you are saying could indeed also be applied to police, corporate criminals and politicians, but for some reason it’s not.
Why?
While I accept your point that crime, aggression and socially dangerous practices are as prevalent among white collar criminals as among street thugs, and that the former more often get away with it as compared to the latter, I wouldn’t say that either Wall Street or politicians celebrate and publicly embrace that part of their culture. On the contrary, official wall street and corporate culture will claim it is honest and compliant and politicians will declare they have integrity, honesty, compassion, fairness and every other virtue known to man.
Did you read this passage which I found online after I posted my first comment here on this issue. It has a quote from Malcolm X as well.
Page 122 onwards from this book
https://books.google.co.in/books?id=gK5hBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=black+american+culture+as+a+counter+culture&source=bl&ots=-MXkIoLh_Y&sig=8kon39hMn9ruLwBW2e9GcJjuoYA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwji-eamzrjOAhULRo8KHX_pAlgQ6AEIPzAG#v=onepage&q=black%20american%20culture%20as%20a%20counter%20culture&f=false
is a very interesting commentary on what the author calls the urban Black American counter-culture of crime. Its from ‘Rethinking Prison Reentry: Transforming Humiliation into Humility’ By Tony Gaskew. This is a black American writing with authority.
The point I was trying to make was that a subset of urban black counterculture celebrates drugs, gangs, male aggression, rape, sexual assault, and street crime.
I am not in any way providing an excuse for the police. American police is shocking in the way it just shoots people dead. And from what I have read in this article about the DOJ’s Baltimore report, there is obvious racism in police culture in the US.
But I was wondering why this subset of black counterculture celebrates things we would agree are socially undesirable. And I was looking for the reason this counterculture develops and my observation that
“a particular social problem in the US, stemming from its racist criminal justice system that criminalizes African Americans who then (a section of them at least) in a perverse way adopt that very criminalization as their defining identity. And American society, culture and institutions seem to find it easier to simply accept this Black counterculture of crime rather than understand its true origins. Its almost like a cop-out from addressing the real reason why young Black men end up in crime and drugs and gangs” was only an attempt at sociological observation.
I am not an American and have only lived in the US for a year (in Washington DC) and I am not particularly tuned into urban black American culture. But I have a sense of it. There is much in it about celebrating drugs, gangs, about crime, about insulting women that I find socially undesirable. I was just wondering where this kind of counterculture comes from. And I was wondering if this counterculture is too readily accepted by Americans generally as defining a certain kind of Black American man, without questioning why that man is in the position that he is. This counterculture portrays and perpetuates a false and dangerous stereotype.
And in my first comment here I stated “As an outsider, it seems to me that while snipelee’s comment is unfair because it ignores that police excesses exist even when drugs and crime are absent from the situation and do have something to do with race, I do wonder why Black American culture has developed mainly as a counter-culture.”
So it is clear that I was not defending the police at all and neither suggesting that African Americans deserved to be targeted by the Police.
And so I did not say “stop committing the crimes”.
And this was my first comment.
“As an outsider, it seems to me that while snipelee’s comment is unfair because it ignores that police excesses exist even when drugs and crime are absent from the situation and do have something to do with race, I do wonder why Black American culture has developed mainly as a counter-culture. Why does Black American culture want to appear unwholesome, aggressive and dangerous? It might have to do with perceived and experienced social marginalization, poverty, experienced racism, anger at historical and present-day injustices and other deprivations. But this kind of cultural response is a reactionary response.”
You misinterpret this to suggest that I see a “sub-section of black communities” as somehow more criminal and “unwholesome”.
What I said was that “Why does Black American culture want to appear unwholesome, aggressive and dangerous?”
” I wouldn’t say that either Wall Street or politicians celebrate and publicly embrace that part of their culture”
“We came, we saw, he died”- Hillary Clinton boasting about the illegal killing of Qaddafi and wanting to appear unwholesome, aggressive and dangerous.
The bombing of Iraq was on every channel celebrating the neocon war crimes by their gang members. And they went on to publicly defend torture.
Roger Ailes and his kind aren’t subtle about insulting and sexual assault of women.
Pharma CEO’s celebrate their drugs openly.
And their drugs kill thousands every year.
Interviews of CEO’s and investors on TV celebrating their wonderful ill-gotten earnings are common and they boast about it in their quarterly reports.
On the flipside, I’m not sure what you are referring to about celebrating rape in the black counter-culture. You’d have to provide an example of that. On the other hand, reports of white fraternity boys celebrating rape have been fairly common recently.
The lens through which you are viewing these issues is foggy.
Again, I’m sorry if opening your eyes to this is painful, but you are seeing things the way they want you to see them, not the way things truly are.
Unprosecuted or “legalized” criminality is still criminality.
You seem to be trying to understand these issues, and that is more than I can say for too many.
I have no problem with you condemning them all for boasting about their aggressive and dangerous crimes, but singling out one group is problematic.
From wikipedia
“Misogyny in hip hop culture refers to lyrics, videos or other aspects of hip hop culture that support, glorify, justify, or normalize the objectification, exploitation, or victimization of women.[1][2] It can range from innuendoes to stereotypical characterizations and defamations.[2]
Scholars have proposed various explanations for the presence of misogyny in rap music. Some have argued that rap artists use misogynistic lyrics and portrayals as a way to assert their masculinity[2] or to demonstrate their authenticity as rappers.[3][4] Others have suggested that rap music is a product of its environment, reflecting mainstream attitudes toward women,[5][6][7] and that hip hop artists have internalized negative stereotypes about women.[2] Still other academics have stressed economic considerations, arguing that rappers use misogyny to achieve commercial success.[2]
Content analyses have found that approximately 22% to 37% of rap lyrics contain some misogyny, depending on subgenre.[8][9][10] Individual artists have been shown to use such lyrics more frequently. Eminem, for example, used misogyny in eleven of the 14 songs on his third studio album.[8] Common misogynistic themes include the use of derogatory names such as “bitch” and “ho”, sexual objectification of women, legitimation of violence against women, distrust of women, and the glorification of prostitution and pimping.[11]”
“Misogyny has become a sign of authenticity for some rappers, who use misogynistic lyrics and depictions of violence against women to prove that they are authentic gangsters.[3][4] Many rap artists see demeaning women as a way to assert their masculinity.[2] Rappers are often considered “soft” and “fake” if they distance themselves from hypermasculine self-portrayals and hostile representations of women.[15][16] Hip hop artists may also use such lyrics to gain commercial success.[2]”
“Ronald Weitzer and Charis E. Kubrin (2009) have identified five common misogynistic themes in rap lyrics: (a) derogatory naming and shaming of women, (b) sexual objectification of women, (c) legitimation of violence against women, (d) distrust of women, and (e) celebration of prostitution and pimping.[11] In misogynistic songs, it is typically women in general who are called derogatory names such as bitches, hoes, or chickenheads.[16][28]
Men are praised if they abuse and exploit women.[29] These insults seek to degrade women and keep them “in their place”.[30] Sexual objectification is the most common misogynistic theme in rap music according to the analysis by Weitzer and Kubrin. The 2009 analysis found that 67% of the examined rap lyrics sexually objectified women.[31] Dr. Dre raps:
Bitches ain’t shit but hoes and tricks / Lick on these nuts and suck the dick / Get’s the fuck out after you’re done / And I hops in my ride to make a quick run.
—Dr. Dre, “Bitches Ain’t Shit”
In misogynistic rap songs, violence is depicted as the most appropriate punishment for women who challenge male domination or who simply “offend” men. Juvenile (March Nigga Step), for example, asks, “If she thinks you’re jokin’, is she goin’ get a quick chokin’?” Physical violence and rape are considered fitting responses if women refuse sex or if they commit other “offenses”.[32] Eminem and Odd Future, who have both been criticized for their depictions of violence against women,[33][34] rap:
Slut, you think I won’t choke no whore / ‘Til the vocal cords don’t work in her throat no more?! / Shut up slut, you’re causin’ too much chaos.
—Eminem, “Kill You”
Punch your bitch in her mouth just for talkin’ shit / You lurkin’ bitch? Well, I see that shit / Once again I gotta punch a bitch in her shit / I’m icy bitch, don’t look at my wrist / Because if you do, I might blind you bitch.
—Jasper Dolphin, “Bitch Suck Dick” by Tyler, The Creator
A related subtheme is boasting about sex acts that harm or are painful for women.[32] Many rap songs also portray women as untrustworthy or unworthy of respect. Women are depicted as femmes fatales, “gold diggers”,[35][36] and as dishonest about sexual matters. Tupac Shakur (Hell 4 A Hustler) asks, “Why plant seeds in a dirty bitch, waitin’ to trick me? Not the life for me”.[37] Pimps are glorified; their ability to control and exploit women is praised.[38][36]”
From wikipedia again
“A 2001 content analysis of gangsta rap found that approximately 22% of the examined rap lyrics featured violence against women, including depictions of assault, murder and rape. The prevalence of misogynistic themes in songs are as follows: name-calling and shame account for 49%, sexual objectification accounts for 67%, distrust of women at 47%, acts of violence against women account for 18%, and human trafficking account for 20%.[42″
“The subject matter inherent in gangsta rap has caused a great deal of controversy. Criticism has come from both left wing and right wing commentators, as well as religious leaders, who have accused the genre of promoting crime, serial killing, murder, violence, profanity, sex addiction, homophobia, racism, promiscuity, misogyny, rape, street gangs, disorderly conduct, drive-by shootings, vandalism, thievery, driving under the influence, drug dealing, alcohol abuse, substance abuse, disregarding law enforcement, materialism, and narcissism.”
see Gangstas, Thugs, and Hustlas: Identity and the Code of the Street in Rap Music, by Charis E. Kubrin
University of California, in Social Problems, Vol. 52, pp. 360-378, 2005
https://webfiles.uci.edu/ckubrin/Gangstas,%20Thugs,%20and%20Hustlas.pdf?uniq=fn1t69
“For all you wanna be gangsters, internet thugs, or just inquiring minds, watch as ‘The Game’ puts you on game about gang signs.”
The Game Shows How To Throw Up Gang Signs
Here’s a statistic for you-
100% of the Republican candidates for president make misogynistic comments and profit from enterprises that objectify women.
You continue to single out one community for disgusting problems prevalent throughout American culture.
I am not singling out one particular community. We just happen to be discussing a particular sub-culture associated to a section of the African American community. There does appear to be a sub counterculture among urban black Americans that embraces criminality. I can understand why they got there and that white America might be responsible for pushing them there. The point I am making is that this kind of counterculture only results in the further victimization of black Americans. And therefore they must try and spurn this cultural baggage.
No.
The point you are missing is that we are discussing the DOJ report on criminal actions by police in Baltimore, and you keep changing the subject to blame the victims.
But, since you seem intent on rehashing your “point”, I will once again point out that you are wrong.
It is NOT a counterculture among urban blacks that embraces criminality.
Criminality is widely embraced throughout American culture.
Here are a few other things to keep in mind the next time you decide to lecture-
Upwards of 90% of the profits from “gangsta rap” goes to white Americans.
Not one gun manufacturer in America is owned by African Americans.
African Americans do not control the flow of pot, cocaine or heroin into the country or into the cities, they aren’t major players in the cultivation of pot, and they are slightly less likely than whites (5.4% vs 5.5%) to use drugs.
This “white America might be responsible” bullshit is a shrine to ignorance when you know the history of our country, including recent history and ongoing policies like selective enforcement and the issues raised in the DOJ report.
No, I am not blaming the victims.
I could go on but my previous comments adequately explain what I am saying to TI readers even if you refuse to get the point I am making.
Any cultural expression that encourages impressionable young black boys and teens to become gangsters, to denigrate women, that romanticizes a life of crime, that glorifies street violence, is in my view wrong and the biggest victims of such culture are the young black boys and teens who get influenced and whose lives get destroyed as a result.
So I repeat African Americans need to reject such harmful cultural expressions.
And again, what I have said in no way justifies the police abusing their power to target African Americans.
“white America might be responsible” – OK – I can change that to “white America is responsible”.
And the points you make about the ultimate profiteers from the sales of guns, drugs and gangsta rap only reinforces my point that young black American boys and teens are victims of harmful lifestyle choice messaging that they are culturally targeted with. Well, I hope African American communities wake up to this and decide to change their destinies by demanding that the State protect young black boys/ teens from guns, drugs and harmful cultural indoctrination and messaging.
if we are going to make gang affiliation illegal, we also have to imprison the thieves who withhold life support from the population.
Hellery’s solution is a global war – gives everyone something to do. And the pay will be less because dead people wont sue, cant get paid neither.
Would you like to read an exchange between a cop and a prosecutor?
Baltimore officers cited for mistreatment of women in DOJ report
When i said “we are all palestinians now” this is what i was predicting. The pattern of racist domination is quite obvious when you see that equal power of life support and interracialreligiousmarriage are not in play. The US is following the same pattern of “obliterate the lessers” that israel perpetrates upon Palestinians – which Hellery Clinton supports.
Wallstreet wants to beat mainstreet into submission as much as the Morlocks did. And the will of the American people to be mounted and branded as willing victims is the same crime that Hitler and Polpot and Stalin and Netanyahu and Mubarak and Sisi etal committed. The evidence of this predatory racist regime, led in the US by wallstreet, is how *their* courts operate, how *their* prisons operate, how *their* rulers are chosen by their *rigged* game.
America has been hijacked by a “money rules predatory operation” which is now becoming systemic. Until the money monkeys are charged tried and imprisoned, we are all Palestinians now.
So police weren’t focusing on the dwindling elderly white minority? What a shock.
There is way too much ‘vindication’ of critics of the establishment without any radical change going on.
Yes, the US tortured – prosecutions, none.
Yes, the US committed war crimes – prosecutions, none.
Yes, BP wrecked the Gulf with toxicity – the US declined to do more than fine them.
Yes, Obama is murdering innocent people with drones – cessation not in the cards.
Yes, Wall Street was guilty of securities fraud – prosecutions, none.
Yes, black people are brutalized, disproportionately arrested, incarcerated and even murdered – prosecution of endemic police corruption, none.
It’s as if all the establishment has to say is “Yeah, you got me there,” and it absolves itself, incensed that anyone wants more than the admission.
Don’t forget the big one: failed War on Drugs. How much progress has this cost us as a society?
Why don’t we have these issues in white suburbia America?
The Police enforce generally the same laws?
I certainly am aware of patrol cars and slow down and put on my seat belt so I don’t get pulled over. When pulled over, I put both hands on the steering wheel very visible til the officer comes to my window, and follow instructions explicitly. I bite my tongue and accept my ticket.
Inner city people get what that general population deserves. Certainly there are mistakes made. Mistakes are made everywhere, but the officers life is not at risk. Act civilized and the police will too!
As agents of authority the police need to behave proactively in a more civilized manner toward black people specifically and working class people generally.
The state should fear the people, not the other way around – but propaganda has made conformists of many.
My experience is that police act like dicks all over, actually. I have about 35 years worth of anecdotes from my minor interactions alone — and I am so whitebread they could sell me in a wonder bag.
In addition to the justifiable focus on race-based bad policing, I would like to see calls for police reform based on the absolutely awful attitudes so many policemen carry into any & every situation, even obviously peaceful ones in which they are not remotely at risk.
Furthermore they should all be piss tested for steroids. Roid rage is an obvious problem worth avoiding. But sure, maybe they are all bald and bad-tempered for style reasons.
Cop culture, especially in larger cities, is racist. I have cops in my family, and while the youngest one is actually a bit of a soft touch and tries to give especially poor people a break — he’s been poor himself — an uncle of mine is a whole other matter.
I grew up listening to him and my dad ranting about niggers and how the cops “had to” treat them like “animals.” Especially when they were protesting.
Cops have never targeted white suburban neighborhoods for drug enforcement at anything like the level they go after drugs in black neighborhoods. Once heroin became an epidemic in white suburbia, all of a sudden even cops in some cities are talking about alternatives to arrest/prison. This, after turning two generations of black males into convicted felons, mostly for drug crimes.
Cop culture is racist, even tho it’s of course true that many individual cops are not.
Let the psycho analyzing begin… seems fairly obvious why you seem to bash law enforcement officers at every opportunity now. Rather than make generalizations about them, maybe you should seek counseling to address what appears to be some issues from your childhood.
Calling me a troll for saying such is not much of a rebuttal FYI. It’s quite possible to be liberal AND think your “cop culture is racist” is utter bullshit.
Everything about your comment is racist feigned ignorance. As if it’s just a matter of being a suck up coward to avoid being “pulled over” and then hoping that you being a pathetic coward will save you from escalated harassment. I doubt that you’re as ignorant as you pretend to be, but just in case, I’ll give you just a tiny window of the reality to consider which you’re claiming you have no idea exists:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/11/opinion/a-policing-culture-built-on-racism-in-baltimore.html
Kitt is being somewhat misleading, sort of like our author Ms. Alice…
This practice was ruled unconstitutional in 2013 but the report dates back to 2010.
I get it that change should often happen faster than it actually does but the federal government is addressing the problem and that is a good, not a bad thing.
Not that your phony concern trolling needs any rebuttal, but “Kitt” didn’t write what I quoted, the New York Times did.
And then there’s the ongoing stalking and harassment program:
fightgangstalking .com
Oh, that’s right. Anyone who speaks up about it is delusional.
The solution is to continue to incorporate Iraq occupation thinking into the American homeland; so just build a wall around the wealthy sections of Baltimore, call it “The Green Zone”, privatize all police services and have them guard the Green Zone, and the rest of the city can operate on the kind of warlord/gang-rule basis seen in Sadr City and similar zones, such as Brazilian favelas.
Fun fact: “Police officers were responsible for one in five homicides in Rio de Janeiro city during 2015″
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/04/brazil-surge-in-killings-by-police-sparks-fear-in-favelas-ahead-of-rio-olympics/
What does one do with a whole population of people with no legitimised source of income? And people figured *Escape from New York* was a fantasy film.