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The parallels between the U.K.’s shocking approval of the Brexit referendum in June and the U.S.’s even more shocking election of Donald Trump as president Tuesday night are overwhelming. Elites (outside of populist right-wing circles) aggressively unified across ideological lines in opposition to both. Supporters of Brexit and Trump were continually maligned by the dominant media narrative (validly or otherwise) as primitive, stupid, racist, xenophobic, and irrational. In each case, journalists who spend all day chatting with one another on Twitter and congregating in exclusive social circles in national capitals — constantly re-affirming their own wisdom in an endless feedback loop — were certain of victory. Afterward, the elites whose entitlement to prevail was crushed devoted their energies to blaming everyone they could find except for themselves, while doubling down on their unbridled contempt for those who defied them, steadfastly refusing to examine what drove their insubordination.
The indisputable fact is that prevailing institutions of authority in the West, for decades, have relentlessly and with complete indifference stomped on the economic welfare and social security of hundreds of millions of people. While elite circles gorged themselves on globalism, free trade, Wall Street casino gambling, and endless wars (wars that enriched the perpetrators and sent the poorest and most marginalized to bear all their burdens), they completely ignored the victims of their gluttony, except when those victims piped up a bit too much — when they caused a ruckus — and were then scornfully condemned as troglodytes who were the deserved losers in the glorious, global game of meritocracy.
That message was heard loud and clear. The institutions and elite factions that have spent years mocking, maligning, and pillaging large portions of the population — all while compiling their own long record of failure and corruption and destruction — are now shocked that their dictates and decrees go unheeded. But human beings are not going to follow and obey the exact people they most blame for their suffering. They’re going to do exactly the opposite: purposely defy them and try to impose punishment in retaliation. Their instruments for retaliation are Brexit and Trump. Those are their agents, dispatched on a mission of destruction: aimed at a system and culture they regard — not without reason — as rife with corruption and, above all else, contempt for them and their welfare.
After the Brexit vote, I wrote an article comprehensively detailing these dynamics, which I won’t repeat here but hope those interested will read. The title conveys the crux: “Brexit Is Only the Latest Proof of the Insularity and Failure of Western Establishment Institutions.” That analysis was inspired by a short, incredibly insightful, and now more relevant than ever post-Brexit Facebook note by the Los Angeles Times’s Vincent Bevins, who wrote that “both Brexit and Trumpism are the very, very wrong answers to legitimate questions that urban elites have refused to ask for 30 years.” Bevins went on: “Since the 1980s the elites in rich countries have overplayed their hand, taking all the gains for themselves and just covering their ears when anyone else talks, and now they are watching in horror as voters revolt.”
For those who tried to remove themselves from the self-affirming, vehemently pro-Clinton elite echo chamber of 2016, the warning signs that Brexit screechingly announced were not hard to see. Two short passages from a Slate interview I gave in July summarized those grave dangers: that opinion-making elites were so clustered, so incestuous, so far removed from the people who would decide this election — so contemptuous of them — that they were not only incapable of seeing the trends toward Trump but were unwittingly accelerating those trends with their own condescending, self-glorifying behavior.
Like most everyone else who saw the polling data and predictive models of the media’s self-proclaimed data experts, I long believed Clinton would win, but the reasons why she very well could lose were not hard to see. The warning lights were flashing in neon for a long time, but they were in seedy places that elites studiously avoid. The few people who purposely went to those places and listened, such as Chris Arnade, saw and heard them loud and clear. The ongoing failure to take heed of this intense but invisible resentment and suffering guarantees that it will fester and strengthen. This was the last paragraph of my July article on the Brexit fallout:
Instead of acknowledging and addressing the fundamental flaws within themselves, [elites] are devoting their energies to demonizing the victims of their corruption, all in order to delegitimize those grievances and thus relieve themselves of responsibility to meaningfully address them. That reaction only serves to bolster, if not vindicate, the animating perceptions that these elite institutions are hopelessly self-interested, toxic, and destructive and thus cannot be reformed but rather must be destroyed. That, in turn, only ensures there will be many more Brexits, and Trumps, in our collective future.
Beyond the Brexit analysis, there are three new points from last night’s results that I want to emphasize, as they are unique to the 2016 U.S. election and, more importantly, illustrate the elite pathologies that led to all of this:
You know the drearily predictable list of their scapegoats: Russia, WikiLeaks, James Comey, Jill Stein, Bernie Bros, The Media, news outlets (including, perhaps especially, The Intercept) that sinned by reporting negatively on Hillary Clinton. Anyone who thinks that what happened last night in places like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Iowa, and Michigan can be blamed on any of that is drowning in self-protective ignorance so deep that it’s impossible to express in words.
When a political party is demolished, the principal responsibility belongs to one entity: the party that got crushed. It’s the job of the party and the candidate, and nobody else, to persuade the citizenry to support them and find ways to do that. Last night, the Democrats failed, resoundingly, to do that, and any autopsy or liberal think piece or pro-Clinton pundit commentary that does not start and finish with their own behavior is one that is inherently worthless.
Put simply, Democrats knowingly chose to nominate a deeply unpopular, extremely vulnerable, scandal-plagued candidate, who — for very good reason — was widely perceived to be a protector and beneficiary of all the worst components of status quo elite corruption. It’s astonishing that those of us who tried frantically to warn Democrats that nominating Hillary Clinton was a huge and scary gamble — that all empirical evidence showed that she could lose to anyone and Bernie Sanders would be a much stronger candidate, especially in this climate — are now the ones being blamed: by the very same people who insisted on ignoring all that data and nominating her anyway.
But that’s just basic blame shifting and self-preservation. Far more significant is what this shows about the mentality of the Democratic Party. Just think about who they nominated: someone who — when she wasn’t dining with Saudi monarchs and being feted in Davos by tyrants who gave million-dollar checks — spent the last several years piggishly running around to Wall Street banks and major corporations cashing in with $250,000 fees for 45-minute secret speeches even though she had already become unimaginably rich with book advances while her husband already made tens of millions playing these same games. She did all that without the slightest apparent concern for how that would feed into all the perceptions and resentments of her and the Democratic Party as corrupt, status quo-protecting, aristocratic tools of the rich and powerful: exactly the worst possible behavior for this post-2008-economic-crisis era of globalism and destroyed industries.
It goes without saying that Trump is a sociopathic con artist obsessed with personal enrichment: the opposite of a genuine warrior for the downtrodden. That’s too obvious to debate. But, just as Obama did so powerfully in 2008, he could credibly run as an enemy of the D.C. and Wall Street system that has steamrolled over so many people, while Hillary Clinton is its loyal guardian, its consummate beneficiary.
Trump vowed to destroy the system that elites love (for good reason) and the masses hate (for equally good reason), while Clinton vowed to manage it more efficiently. That, as Matt Stoller’s indispensable article in The Atlantic three weeks ago documented, is the conniving choice the Democratic Party made decades ago: to abandon populism and become the party of technocratically proficient, mildly benevolent managers of elite power. Those are the cynical, self-interested seeds they planted, and now the crop has sprouted.
Of course there are fundamental differences between Obama’s version of “change” and Trump’s. But at a high level of generality — which is where these messages are often ingested — both were perceived as outside forces on a mission to tear down corrupt elite structures, while Clinton was perceived as devoted to their fortification. That is the choice made by Democrats — largely happy with status quo authorities, believing in their basic goodness — and any honest attempt by Democrats to find the prime author of last night’s debacle will begin with a large mirror.
There are reasons why all presidents until 2008 were white and all 45 elected presidents have been men. There can be no doubt that those pathologies played a substantial role in last night’s outcome. But that fact answers very few questions and begs many critical ones.
To begin with, one must confront the fact that not only was Barack Obama elected twice, but he is poised to leave office as a highly popular president: now viewed more positively than Reagan. America wasn’t any less racist and xenophobic in 2008 and 2012 than it is now. Even stalwart Democrats fond of casually branding their opponents as bigots are acknowledging that a far more complicated analysis is required to understand last night’s results. As the New York Times’s Nate Cohn put it: “Clinton suffered her biggest losses in the places where Obama was strongest among white voters. It’s not a simple racism story.” Matt Yglesias acknowledged that Obama’s high approval rating is inconsistent with depictions of the U.S. as a country “besotted with racism.”
People often talk about “racism/sexism/xenophobia” vs. “economic suffering” as if they are totally distinct dichotomies. Of course there are substantial elements of both in Trump’s voting base, but the two categories are inextricably linked: The more economic suffering people endure, the angrier and more bitter they get, the easier it is to direct their anger to scapegoats. Economic suffering often fuels ugly bigotry. It is true that many Trump voters are relatively well-off and many of the nation’s poorest voted for Clinton, but, as Michael Moore quite presciently warned, those portions of the country that have been most ravaged by free trade orgies and globalism — Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Iowa — were filled with rage and “see [Trump] as a chance to be the human Molotov cocktail that they’d like to throw into the system to blow it up.” Those are the places that were decisive in Trump’s victory. As the Washington Examiner’s Tim Carney put it:
Low-income rural white voters in Pa. voted for Obama in 2008 and then Trump in 2016, and your explanation is white supremacy? Interesting.
— Tim Carney (@TPCarney) November 9, 2016
It has long been, and still is, a central American challenge to rid society of these structural inequalities. But one way to ensure those scapegoating dynamics fester rather than erode is to continue to embrace a system that excludes and ignores a large portion of the population. Hillary Clinton was viewed, reasonably, as a stalwart devotee, beloved agent, and prime beneficiary of that system, and thus could not possibly be viewed as a credible actor against it.
As a result, the president of the United States commands a vast nuclear arsenal that can destroy the planet many times over; the deadliest and most expensive military ever developed in human history; legal authorities that allow him to prosecute numerous secret wars at the same time, imprison people with no due process, and target people (including U.S. citizens) for assassination with no oversight; domestic law enforcement agencies that are constructed to appear and act as standing, para-militarized armies; a sprawling penal state that allows imprisonment far more easily than most Western countries; and a system of electronic surveillance purposely designed to be ubiquitous and limitless, including on U.S. soil.
Those who have been warning of the grave dangers these powers pose have often been dismissed on the ground that the leaders who control this system are benevolent and well-intentioned. They have thus often resorted to the tactic of urging people to imagine what might happen if a president they regarded as less than benevolent one day gained control of it. That day has arrived. One hopes this will at least provide the impetus to unite across ideological and partisan lines to finally impose meaningful limits on these powers that should never have been vested in the first place. That commitment should start now.
* * * * *
For many years, the U.S. — like the U.K. and other Western nations — has embarked on a course that virtually guaranteed a collapse of elite authority and internal implosion. From the invasion of Iraq to the 2008 financial crisis to the all-consuming framework of prisons and endless wars, societal benefits have been directed almost exclusively to the very elite institutions most responsible for failure at the expense of everyone else.
It was only a matter of time before instability, backlash, and disruption resulted. Both Brexit and Trump unmistakably signal its arrival. The only question is whether those two cataclysmic events will be the peak of this process, or just the beginning. And that, in turn, will be determined by whether their crucial lessons are learned — truly internalized — or ignored in favor of self-exonerating campaigns to blame everyone else.
I think a lot of people are missing that because Glenn is saying that we shouldn’t be surprised by the outcome doesn’t mean he’s happy with the outcome.
You have it in a nutshell:
“But human beings are not going to follow and obey the exact people they most blame for their suffering. They’re going to do exactly the opposite: purposely defy them and try to impose punishment in retaliation. Their instruments for retaliation are Brexit and Trump. Those are their agents, dispatched on a mission of destruction: aimed at a system and culture they regard — not without reason — as rife with corruption and, above all else, contempt for them and their welfare.”
It is the contempt for “them” and their welfare that is indeed the paramount catalyst for the reaction. The “them” have been variously and increasingly ignored, derided, gagged and maligned for 35-40 years.
Watch what happens in the March 2017 Dutch general election: Wilders’ PVV will get by far the largest single share of votes, perhaps this time, in the wake of Brexit and the Trump victory, the main centre-right party (or a faction of it) will not join with the Socialists, Greens and other parties on the Left to keep Wilders from becoming PM, but will acknowledge the will of the majority.
If you’re worried about drone strikes, as you should be, then you should have voted for Trump, who is against “spreading democracy,” who didn’t want to invade Iraq and destabilize the Middle East, all leading to the “refugee” crisis that has millions of Muslims pouring into Europe;’ who didn’t assassinate Gadaffi and laugh about it as huge chunks of Northern Africa were destabilized and taken over by Muslim extremists; who isn’t into saber-rattling with Russia, etc. Trump is the peace candidate.
And to the writer of this article, who said, “It goes without saying that Trump is a sociopathic con artist obsessed with personal enrichment: the opposite of a genuine warrior for the downtrodden. That’s too obvious to debate. ” No, it’s not “too obvious to debate.” THIS is what Trump is like: http://tinyurl.com/zfnl65r Know about that black homeless woman who protected his Hollywood Walk of Fame star and was thrown around by “loving” SJWs for her efforts? Trump sent people to find her, and she is now safe and being cared for very, very well. Ever hear the media talk about that? Know the meme about Machado, the ungrateful Miss Universe who back-stabbed Trump after he took up for her and talked the powers that be out of canning her for putting on so much weight? Watch and learn: https://youtu.be/PpXsAoXZIMg
“Grab ’em by the pussy”? Great meme — and the typical way men start having sex with women who CONSENT to it, as Trump said the women he “grabbed by the pussy” DID. Read what he ACTUALLY said: “when you’re a star, they LET you.” That’s consent. But the mainstream media has half the country calling him a veritable rapist, as someone who “attacks” women. It’s nuts, folks. It’s insane.
The mainstream media have been lying about Trump from the get-go, lying about just about every little thing he does. He was even accused of mocking a disabled man, as if he were mocking the man’s disability. Wrong. He mocked the man for his stupid ideas, not his disability, but the mainstream media never let facts get in the way of a good Two Minute Hate when it comes to Trump and his supporters. And what is their duplicity leading to? People freaking OUT about Trump’s election, taking things to the street, rioting, burning things down, beating up on supposed Trump supporters (read “white people”), going nuts — literally,y as in becoming suidical. Read this article, PLEASE, and stop with the insane anti-Trump rhetoric: http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wolf/
It never ceases to amaze me the ability for both Hillary and Trump supporters to convert their candidates from at a minimum highly compromised, to Mother Theresa. To me that is the fundamental problem with politics right now – we so badly need a messiah we are willing to self-delude beyond recognition.
I’ve read a lot of WWII books from the perspective of those in Germany and it’s similarly amazing how many people, even after all the evidence, still believed that for as evil as the regime was, Hitler didn’t know. That somehow he had this perfect grand vision unsullied by the evil that went on under his helm.
No one gets to where Hillary and Trump have occupied without being at a minimum a pretty screwed up human.
I am a white, college-educated, high income middle-aged, woman who has traveled to over 80 countries for my job. I found good people in EVERY country I visited. I am VERY tired of seeing “journalists” (I use the term advisedly) say that racism, misogyny, and xenophobia, not to mention ‘low income, uneducated people, were the reasons to vote for Trump.
I voted for Trump because I’m giving him a chance to do what he said he would do – bust up the cozy club in the US govt that doesn’t seem to be able to do much of anything and even that costs billions of dollars. Trump is an out of the box thinker and I hope he can come up with better processes to help inner cities (he said he wanted to), provide more and better employment for all the noncollege educated people that are hurting, and most importantly, to secure our borders and make the United States respected in the world again instead of viewed as an anxious to please chump.
I wonder how welcoming these good people will be after a few reprisal drone strikes.
Most “good” people aren’t so friendly after their countrymen are murdered indiscriminately. Even rich American businesses can’t wipe away the blood and resentment with dollar bills and bluster.
Projection much, Glenn? It’s true that published negativity can’t be held wholly accountable – but surely, you’re not so disingenuous as to truly believe that such articles did not contribute at all. Never mind the fact that the Gore-Nader effect was on full display in Florida.
Bernie Sanders would have been crushed. Compared to Hillary, he lacks bonafides. His biggest success is naming a Post Office after his friend. Oh, and his planners failed at math – not that he could accept any criticism. No one who voted for Trump would have voted for Sanders instead. The number of people who voted third party that would have voted for Sanders are countered by the conservatives who took a virtuous stand against their party and for someone that they could at least respect professionally. (Or did you forget about them…) Moreover, Sanders had no good will among minorities. Even better, he and his campaign came off as spoiled & misogynistic. Dare I say that they went full Trump by going back on their promises? So, you’re counting on the anti-Trump vote among minorities — but speaking as a liberal with socialist leanings, who shares a significant chunk of your cornucopia of espoused values (you know, minus the inflexibility, grand-standing, victim complex) – the more that I actually learned about Sanders, the less I liked him as a candidate. Maybe I would’ve voted third party, then… in fact, I might even have been quite vocal about my antipathy for the Bernie-beneath-the-hype/surface.
(But let me guess, in _that_ scenario, __I’m__ the one at fault. You know, for mentioning his flaws, refusing to compromise and slinging mud on your favored candidate. … )
Moreover, there was plenty of substantive talk about ways to help the disenfranchised; tax breaks for the impoverished, etc. We could also talk about his female-disenfranchising erotica, his croneyism, etc. To suggest that there wasn’t any effort made by the Clinton campaign to shine light on “the issues” is asinine and suggests willful self-deceit on your part.
Oh, wait – do you mean the media? Emails, emails and more emails! Wikileaks. Let’s not focus on any positive accomplishments. Let’s talk about this bullshit email pablum.
Hillary was a solid candidate. Sure, she had baggage – but who doesn’t? Was their campaign perfect? Probably not. But they sure as hell did the best they could with what they had; of that, I’m sure. Did they make mistakes? Sure. Did they manage to win the popular vote despite suffering an unreasonable onslaught of media bullying that consisted of vapors and innuendo – which idealist iconoclasts and typical Trump supporters alike used to bolster their angry affinities? Absolutely.
I’m sure it’s uncomfortable for you, knowing that you played a part in this fiasco. That, even though it was likely a tiny part, you directly aided in Trump’s victory. A refusal to accept any blame is childish, at best. Possibly even suggestive of narcissistic entitlement. Maybe you’re even self-aware enough to consider that your antagonism was unduly aggravated by latent sexism. (It’s _okay_ to be flawed. We’re _all_ biased. If you’re going to take that as an attack as opposed to a suggestion for reflection, well, then I guess you really are just a prima donna.)
If I sound pissy – well, fuck it. I am. But I’m not irritated that you had an opinion, that you – human being that you are – seem to consistently seem to push this narrative informed by bias (ie: opinion) and dripping with self-righteousness. No, it’s the fact that apparently, you can’t be mature enough to accept some of the consequences of your actions. Somehow, of the myriad influences that shaped this election – you refuse to submit that perhaps, one of those influences was you.
Please, own your words and actions. Otherwise, you’re just another one of those who are “drowning in self-protective ignorance so deep that it’s impossible to express in words.”
What an eloquent and long-winded convincement that Hillary was the right candidate.
I will sleep easier knowing she won the election of your heart as well as mine.
After all, should mere reality change our perception? I prefer to admire the fox who, through cleverness and the force of a powerful will, is able to stylize his perception of grapes to maintain contentment. Such wisdom is the path to happiness on this, our brief journey across an uncontrollable Earth.
Bullshit email pablum – solid candidate. You’re delusional. The emails indicate an irrepressible corrupt sociopath who is in a relationship that makes the Underwoods look tame. She has zero positive accomplishments and a trail of dead in her wake. No Agent Smith, you can’t protect the Matrix this time no matter how many words you write. Self serving drivel.
The water is deeper than any ordinary American civilians could imagine. Yet I kind of surprised that Mr. Greenwald could be this upset about the result!
I certainly hope that Mr. Greenwald isn’t what I think of rn! Don’t disappointed me! I cross my fingers!
Excellent Writer!! , very well informed!!
I strongly disagree on several points:
– elites: what about the Republican elite? More concerned about workers? Don’t think so.
– bigotry: Trump epitomizes this term better than anyone else (except maybe newly-elected Dutertre in the Philipines).
– working class: Trump is proud to have paid little taxes. Wealthy people are supposed to pay their share to help less fortunates ones. So avoiding to pay taxes is despising the working class, not being supportive of their struggle.
– mysoginy & racism: wait for the cabinet to be appointed. How many non-whites & women will be part of it? In Canada, it is evenly split. I don’t expect anything close to parity in Trump’s cabinet.
– tiredness of the electorate towards elites: yes, for sure. But leaning towards a crass candidate like Trump means a lack of empathy, humanism. It’s a leap backwards.
– as for Brexit, older voters expressed their fear of a world they do not understand anymore. Values have changed and older generations are losing their footing. They don’t care much about others: they care about their pensions (which, by the way, are the results of investments demanding for ROI, not jobs to be maintained in the US).
– education: many people know nothing of the world they live in. What’s going on with China and the Spratly Islands, what’s at stake in Ukraine, in Turkey, etc. Many wouldn’t even know where to locate these countries on a world map! The world is a very complex place and commoners cannot even fathom where to start. We need more educated people with general culture to be able to assess what a dimwit (about these subjects) like Trump is trying to convince them about. He lied all the way, presenting things under a light so biased that people lacking critical thinking believed as true.
– democracy: with candidates like Trump, democracy is at risk. We need politicians versed and aware of what’s at stake, not a vulgar entertainer-charlatan.
I’m not a member of any elite (by the way, 60 milion+ Americans voted for Clinton, so classifying them all as part of the elite is bordering insincerity) and favor change versus statu quo, but I know quite well the world I live in and that taking short cuts and lying are not the solution to our mounting problems.
So yes to changes, no to Trump.
Well most republican elites did turn their back towards Trump and supported Clinton instead, like the Bush family. The whole narrative of the elections has been anti-establishment versus the moral and just candidate (in contrast to Trump). Americans are not going to buy into the current system anymore, they know that the democrats and the republicans have more in common than differences. The working class voted for a man who lives in a tower that is emblazoned with his name. They find Trump more relatable than Hillary which shows you how disliked she truly is. You say democracy is at risk but democracy has already been hijacked by the aristocrats. The fact was exposed during the financial crisis of 2008. The Clintons were partly to blame for it as they have colluded with Wall Street numerous times. Trump is bigoted. There is no doubt about it, but he is has done something quite remarkable. He has broken the mold of the presidential status and introduced chaos to the current political structure. Change is necessary as you implied but change is not always possible in the way we wanted it to be. If you only look at it through a socially progressive lens then you are not looking at the big picture. The author does emit hypocrisy as he basks in condescension and self-righteousness but he does have point in that Hillary is to blame for Trump. I’m a minority and I don’t intend to speak on behalf of my group but there is this truth being unraveled that a lot of us are beginning to catch on. It goes beyond any racial prejudice because it will directly impact our jobs and our families. Americans who voted for Clinton do not seem to understand that the egalitarian values that we hold dear will inevitably dissipate if America does fall into total control by the oligarchs. You saw what happened in South Korea. It will be no different in the west. Most people dismissed as a conspiracy theory which is quite shocking because the Cabal had been exposed before by Washington. The lack of awareness and the political game we play of right vs left is corroding our democracy by creating a greater divide among the people which has never been larger.
Your comments are exactly what he was talking about and why Clinton lost.
After all is written and debated, one thing is damn clear. The people in Ohio, Michigan, PA, Iowa, and other states don’t give a crap about Washington and it’s political elite. They voted for change despite the outlandish and unpredictable nature of Trump. They may have voted in Howdy Doody if he was as outspoken as the Donald. Everything else is pure noise.
Wealthy, entrenched elites turned their back on the middle class, who had no choice but to vote for Donald Trump, just as selfish young couples turned their back on David Berkowitz, leaving him no choice but to become a serial murderer.
I used to be a liberal who voted for Obama. Once I realized liberals/democrats are all about hating white people and calling them racists, I was done. Liberals are hysterical and if you try and discuss the facts with them, they shout over you, label you, and hate you. They do not possess logic. They threatened our freedom of speech. I will never vote for a liberal ever again.
@Missy – I think your problem is not so much with “liberals” as it is with authoritarianism. See if there’s anything in the following quote that sounds familiar with you:
“But research reveals that authoritarian followers drive through life under the influence of impaired thinking a lot more than most people do, exhibiting sloppy reasoning, highly compartmentalized beliefs, double standards, hypocrisy, self-blindness, a profound ethnocentrism, and – to top it all off – a ferocious dogmatism that makes it unlikely anyone could ever change their minds with evidence or logic.”
This quote was taken from “The Authoritarians” by Robert Altemeyer, a psychologist whose 40-year career was devoted to the study of authoritarianism.
Now, if this is the core of your distaste of liberals, good luck. Conservative authoritarians are just as bad as, if not worse than liberal authoritarians. There is a most excellent book by two political scientists, Marc Hetherington and Jonathan Weiler that talks about the role of authoritarianism in the creation of and exacerbation of the polarization we see now in our political environment. One important take-away from what they show is that there are authoritarian liberals and authoritarian conservatives. The title is “Authoritarianism and Polarization in American Politics.” It’s a good read. I highly recommend it.
/*But*/ there are also non-authoritarian liberals and non-authoritarian conservatives. It’s not the -isms that are the problem. It’s authoritarianism that’s the problem . . .
IMHO
Thoughtful analitics
When people Tony Blair assumes that he needs only to come out and urge the voters to vote against Brexit for them to do so, we can judge just how deluded the elite has become. It is highly likely his appearance would have swung many voters to vote for Brexit.
The same happened with Hillary Clinton wheeling out rock stars and film stars to encourage voters to vote for her. Based on what exactly? Any idiot might have worked out they stood as much chance of alienating those who weren’t fans as winning over those who were. Did Hillary really think someone old enough to vote was going to switch from being a Trump supporter to a Clinton voter just because Beyoncé told them to?
These are the sort of fabulously wealthy people who prostitute themselves to sell anything they are paid to sell in order to enrich themselves even further. To underestimate the intelligence of those who have made them so wealthy is an insult many will find hard to forgive.
Fair comment. The main stream centre-Left party has effectively docked with the old elites to entrench an overwhelming hegemonic establishment which has presided over economic and cultural failure. So why are they surprised that their former supporters among the common people, looking for someone to disrupt this discredited elite, see them as part of the problem and not the solution?
But it’s even worse than that. Not only have the mainstream centre-Left and centre-Right parties largely merged around a neo-liberal/neo-conservative consensus that many ordinary men and women reject and increasingly despise. Even the radical Left and the self-appointed challengers of orthodoxy who see themselves as inherently anti-establishment have actually mostly lined up with the establishment. After all, who is it the student demonstrators and the so-called “anarchists” are backing in Britain and the USA? The disrupters, the populist rebels and the ordinary working men and women who just voted for change? No, actually. The kids and the revolutionaries are largely protesting on behalf of the Goldman Sachs and big-business candidate for the American presidency and, in the UK, for the political elite to use the courts and a putsch in the legislature to thwart the democratic decision of their country’s electorate. (Over here the far Left leader of the Labour Party sounds even more vociferously in favour of mass immigration and political correctness than the mainstream centrists, which only confirms his complete unsuitability in many voters’ eyes to be a credible challenger.)
When even the traditional anti-establishment crowd have docked with the establishment and are basically arguing its case and doing its bidding, is it such a surprise that right-wing populists who speak the language of protectionism and patriotism and who damn with blistering rhetoric the existing elites for their condescension and their looting of wider society are getting a proper hearing?
Greenwald is right about Clinton’s failure to support the people against Wall Street and the plutocrats, but she did not actually lose the election. It was stolen by voter-suppression measures that have been documented.
http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=33e4ec877eed6a43863a4a92e&id=3a5e219073&e=8283eff9b8
Clinton’s estabishment-supporting policies brought the election into stealing range.
If you like it or not, the Democratic Party is the best available vehicle if it can be moved to change.
Dems must act now to cure the DEMEXIT:
-Stop pointing fingers and look in the mirror, to learn the lessons of this catastrophe.
-Allow new leadership to move this party forward, or get out of the way.
-Begin to Listen to Progressives and working people:
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/democrats-trump-and-the-ongoing-dangerous-refusal-to-learn-the-lesson-of-brexit/
– https://youtu.be/snzhIJi35FY
The only possible cure for DEMEXIT
Is… NEW LEADERSHIP across the board…
BERNIE SANDERS
ELIZABETH WARREN
KEITH ELLISON
NINA TURNER
Please join me in writing to local democratic leadership, elected officials, national leadership, and sign the petitions from Bernie/Our Revolution, MoveOn.org, and others…
The disenfranchised white voter could vote for both Obama and Trump and still be supporting white supremacy – they simply want back the relative privilege they have lost. Tokenism is not incompatible with racism, and Obama was treated with an unprecedented amount of disrespect due to that racism.
Do you think it stung the DNC to have their ground game outclassed by anime girls and frog pictures from 4chan?
For some reason, calling 1/3rd of the country racist and ignoring their needs turned out to be a losing electoral strategy.
If we had CALLED Trump supporters something other than racist scum out of the sewer they would suddenly become something other than racist scum out of the sewer? Baloney. They are who they are.
I’m was sitting on tractor, smoking my corn cob pipe, and I decided to vote for Trump because it makes leftists mad. He has succeeded even my wildest expectations.
I’m a liberal Democrat in red rural Pennsylvania. All I saw here were Trump signs and not a single one for Hillary. So it was obvious to me the polling was wrong. And I now despise the Democratic establishment for rigging the process from the beginning. The day I knew Trump could win was the day Bernie drew 50,000 people in the streets of New York while Hillary got 500 people in a school gym, yet nearly all the super delegates were supporting her. Charlottescot is right; we need to be protesting outside Dem headquarters.
Readers are suggested to join ‘diaspora’, the non-corporate social network where this article was shared.
https://diasp.eu/posts/4823957
Trump winning is entirely about Maslow, I believe.
Excellent commentary, but I get the impression that you don’t know Donald J. Trump at all, but have accepted the ‘echo chamber’ view that he is a sociopathic monster. From what I’ve read from decent, honest people that have worked with and for the man, nothing could be further from the truth. His campaign manager was a woman (who succeeded wildly), and he has lifted up countless non-whites and gays to positions of authority in his companies. These are facts. He will appoint more women and minorities to cabinet positions than any US president in history. Thankfully, as Scott Adams has predicted all along, The Donald is so many steps ahead of the Marxist, leftist media, including yourself, that you and they (and your deluded readers) will only continue to be amazed at the successes to come.
This guy is halfway right and halfway WAY FUCKING WRONG. This idiot is calling Trump supporters Xenophobes? False. Typical. So much Trump and Trump supporter bashing underneath this propagandist article it’s ridiculous. Still COMPLETELY REFUSING to look up ANY of the complete corruption and crimes that Hillary is very much guilty for – or at the very least should be investigated for (which I hear is actually happening – but people like the DNC CUCK here refuses to report it!!!)
No you see Hillary voters AND THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA (Including this guy) OWE IT TO AMERICA TO STOP CALLING EVERYONE A NAZI / A XENOPHOBE / A RACIST / A SEXIST / A MISGOINIST / A ISLAMAPHOBE / ETC. ETC. ETC (WHICH TRUMP AND HIS SUPPORTERS ARE NOT!!!) AND START READING WIKILEAKS FOR ONCE – AND CLIMB OUTSIDE OF YOUR ECHOCHAMBERS AND READ AND UNDERSTAND THAT THE WOMAN YOU WERE ABOUT TO VOTE IN WAS ONE OF THE MOST EVIL CRIMINAL CORRUPT CUNTS IN THE COUNTRY!!!!!!
Not wanting to commit CULTURAL SUICIDE THROUGH MASS UNVETTED IMMIGRATION IS NOT XENOPHOBIC!!!! WANTING TO ENFORCE EXISTING IMMIGRATION LAW IS NOT RACIST!!!! WANTING OUR COUNTRY TO PROTECT OUR BORDERS IS NOT RACIST OR XENOPHOBIC!!!! It also makes ECONOMICAL SENSE TO DO THIS!!!
The Republicans KNOW that most of you lefty communist fucks only want to allow millions upon millions of migrants into the US ONLY SO YOU HAVE MORE OF A DEMOCRAT VOTER BASE – REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH THOSE PEOPLE WILL FUCK UP THE ECONOMY OF THE US!!!!!!!! WE FUCKING KNOW THIS NOW!!! THE JIG IS UP MOTHER FUCKERS!!!! CALLING US RACIST / XENOPHOBIC / ETC OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN WON’T FUCKING DO SHIT ANYMORE MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!
This nation is a REPUBLIC – and we the Trump supporters will PROTECT THIS NATION FOR WHICH IT STANDS – TRUE FREEDOM!!!! THIS MEANS TO ALSO PROTECT IT’S CONSTITUTION – WHICH YOU LEFTIES AND OBAMA HAVE MADE A COMPLETE FUCKING MOCKERY OF IT!!!!!!!
We gave you the steering wheel. You crashed oh so horribly and fucked up the country oh so terribly. However thankfully there is a chance to now REVERSE ALL THIS DAMAGE YOU HAVE WROUGHT!!!!
e seen people with perfectly good, functioning brains trying to compartmentalize themselves away from the furnace of cognitive dissonance that’s lurking right under the surface by saying completely indefensible things like “This is all because those stupid Bernie supporters wouldn’t support her,” and “The primaries weren’t rigged,” and even “Bernie wouldn’t have been able to win either.”
Right, guys. The candidate with the extremely popular platform and the relentlessly enthusiastic following, who was nearly able to defeat Clinton despite a media blackout and an outright conspiracy against him from the very people responsible for ensuring a fair election, who Real Clear Politics reports was crushing Trump by double digits in head-to-head polling, would not have fared better than the historically unpopular candidate who was under multiple FBI investigations. This is the kind of pants-on-head idiocy that will kill the Democratic party unless it stops.
Bernie, unlike Hillary voters, did his homework. He had his finger right on the pulse of what was happening in his country, and fifteen months ago he predicted the exact outcome of what would happen under an establishment candidacy, precisely as it went down. On August 28th, 2015, Bernie Sanders said the following at the DNC Summer Meeting in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Read it and tell me his accuracy doesn’t give you goosebumps:
“Let me be very clear. In my view, Democrats will not retain the White House, will not regain the Senate, will not gain the House and will not be successful in dozens of governor’s races unless we run a campaign which generates excitement and momentum and which produces a huge voter turnout.
With all due respect, and I do not mean to insult anyone here, that will not happen with politics as usual. The same old, same old will not be successful.
The people of our country understand that — given the collapse of the American middle class and the grotesque level of income and wealth inequality we are experiencing — we do not need more establishment politics or establishment economics.
We need a political movement which is prepared to take on the billionaire class and create a government which represents all Americans, and not just corporate America and wealthy campaign donors.
In other words, we need a movement which takes on the economic and political establishment, not one which is part of it.”
He got it. Like those of us who supported him, Bernie Sanders understood the spirit of the times; he understood where America is at right now. But the elites of the Democratic party refused to allow us to act on that knowledge, so the American people elected the only other candidate who had his finger on America’s pulse, Donald Trump. Those elites, and every other factor that enabled this colossal political blunder to take place, need to be purged from the Democratic party to prevent such mistakes from repeating themselves.
And the first step is to move out of denial, to cease compartmentalizing so that we can all come out of the fog of cognitive dissonance and begin looking at the reality of what has happened and what is happening. You can’t fix a problem until you recognize and acknowledge it. Unless that happens, Democrats are guaranteed to lose in 2018, and again in 2020, until they lose viability as a political party and are replaced.
So read WikiLeaks. Turn off the TV. Use the New York Times to line your birdcage and start exploring alternative media. Read some of the things actual Trump supporters are saying so you can get a feel for their side of things, like this extremely popular Reddit post which has been “gilded” an extraordinary 38 times as of this writing, wherein the author voices frustration over the ways the political left misunderstands his position.
Hillary voters owe it to their country to finally discover the reality of what’s been occurring right under their noses this entire time in order for a true progressive revolution to become a real possibility and to ensure that the next time a golden opportunity like Bernie comes along, they don’t miss it.
I suppose it gets old to some readers here to see this repeated but, once again, I have to say to yet another commenter showing up out of the ether: Read the damned article before posting your comment. There is ample evidence in what part of your comment I could barely bother to stomach reading that you didn’t read the article that you’ve copied and pasted your reply to. You must go around the internet pasting that same incoherent mess on every website that you, with judging by the choice you’ve made here, incorrectly had decided is a Hillary Clinton and Democratic party supporting website.
One major clue that tells me you didn’t bother to read the article is that you are calling Glenn Greenwald “this guy.” If you have no idea who Glenn Greenwald is and what his previous writings are, then you sure as butter melts on a hot baked potato have no idea of what you think you’re addressing.
The DNC treated Bernie supporters terribly. Not even Bernie himself could heal the divide in the democratic party that was caused by the way Hillary’s campaign and her supporters treated Bernie and his supporters. Bernie would have beaten Trump. I keep hearing about the white working class costing Hillary the election. Bernie would have had the white working class vote.
Hillary stood for nothing substantial, while Trump was the underdog, the rebel. He was all of our drunk, racist uncle Bobs, and he tried to court the pissed off Bernie supporters who felt the system is rigged against them. Hillary went to the center to appeal to the moderate right, abandoning a lot of progressive values that Sanders supporters wanted. As someone who voted for Sanders in the democratic primaries, I feel safe in saying that we cared about the economy first and foremost, and Clinton was too cozy with Wall Street for our comfort.
Trump has threatened to repeal gay marriage, a woman’s right to choose, to back out of climate talks with Paris, to deport millions of immigrants, to ban all muslims, to build a ridiculous wall and bully Mexico into paying for it, he said we should bomb the families of terrorists, he’s on tape boasting about sexual assault, he’s an advocate of the racist “stop and frisk” and he led the birther movement. Hillary lost to that because she had a private email server and threatened national security, and all of her scandals.
A part of why she lost though, is the successful demonization of her. Conspiracy theories ran rampant on Facebook. I couldn’t go one day without seeing a post about her murdering people and making it look like a suicide. People called her “Killary.” Facts were out of the window.
Trump’s campaign has destroyed the credibility of the Republicans, the Democrats, and the media. Now Republicans control the house and senate, and Trump will be able to appoint 1 – 3 conservative supreme court judges. If the Republicans back him, he can potentially pass anything he wants.
#3 in this articles points is my greatest concern. We let the government slowly strip away our right to privacy and we were OK with it, because our leaders seemed benevolent enough. Now Trump has these tools. A racist, sexist, xenophobic nationalist who claimed “I alone can fix it.” This could be true fascism, not just the fascism lite we enjoyed before.
I hope I’m wrong about that.
People who worry about survival tend to grasp at straws.
It all really boils down to that.
I think you were right on for the most part with the article Glenn, but I do think you have missed the mark on president elect Trump, which would be easy to do with all of the propaganda put out over the last 18 months. For many years this man has expressed publicly his frustration over the poor leadership of our country. He had a great life and certainly had no reason to dive into politics without a deep and abiding love for America, and a desire to see it return to greatness. History will judge this man, and we’ll all know 4 years from now how this turns out, but I predict he will be a very successful president who returns power to the people, and will be re-elected in 4 years. Those in power (both democrat and republican) for a long time have ignored the things that made America great, and these values are enshrined on a wonderful granite monument in Plymouth, MA called the “Monument to the Forefathers”. What the pilgrims brought to America made it great, and this is the path it must travel to return to peace and prosperity. The words of the Mayflower Compact were echoed 150 years later in the Constitution, and it is a return to these principles that will fix the problem. These principles are what separate America from the rest of the west, and why it rose to prominence in the world. This light of the world was in danger of being snuffed out from decades of destroying our educational system and not teaching the next generations of America about the value of freedom, and how unique in history was America’s great experiment of self governance. They have finally rejected the American oligarchy for a return to the Constitution, and that my friend is because of the foresight of our founders to make this possible because they structured our laws so we can vote those out of power who are no longer listening to the people.
There is no strong, widespread racism, sexism or xenophobia, and these were certainly not a significant part of Trump’s voter base. That narrative is a con of the dishonest journalism/ left cartel.
The inability of Washington and party elites to undertake the necessary steps to unwind the 2016 election losses is almost identical to Monsanto or Pharma or Wells Fargo’s inability to stop committing criminal acts against its customers and employees and to dedicate themselves to being profitable thru honest means. I should also include the Republican Party that is so completely vacant of policy it resorts to suppressing and purging votes to win at any cost. These are tough times — can we rise above them?
Thank you Glenn Greenwald… purveyor of the truth. Protestors should be on the street protesting the Democratic Party, not Donald Trump. As far as I can see, there are no claims of election fraud in the general election (while a number of election fraud cases remain unresolved from the Democratic primaries). Apparently he won fair and square. The Democrats lost the presidency…we all need to be angry with the DNC. It blew the election by determining a year before people voted that it would choose the candidate. No one knows what would have happened if 1) the DNC, at HRC’s request had not pushed for a Trump candidacy, 2)the DNC debates had been scheduled to enlighten voters, rather than to hide Bernie Sanders, 3) Its candidate didn’t make statements like – 1/2 of Trump supporters are deplorable – if nothing else, this showed what Clinton thought of REAL working class Americans, 4)The DNC did not have Super Delegates, etc. etc. So many mistakes trying to stick with a 3rd way philosophy when voters wanted CHANGE. Protest the DNC and all the Democratic elected officials (AKA Super Delegates) who went along with it and ignored their constituents.
Charlotte, I Agree with all these points, & would note an immediate urgent step… the Democratic Party is the best available vehicle if it can be moved to change.
Dems must act now to cure the DEMEXIT:
-Stop pointing fingers and look in the mirror, to learn the lessons of this catastrophe.
-Allow new leadership to move this party forward, or get out of the way.
-Begin to Listen to Progressives and working people: https://youtu.be/snzhIJi35FY
The only possible cure for DEMEXIT
Is… NEW LEADERSHIP across the board…
BERNIE SANDERS
ELIZABETH WARREN
KEITH ELLISON
NINA TURNER
Please join me in writing to local democratic leadership, elected officials, national leadership, and sign the petitions from Bernie/Our Revolution, MoveOn.org, and others…
Some very relevant observations, Glenn.
Unfortunately, the glaring absurdity of proclaiming the ‘highest approval rating’ blah, blah, blah for Obama negated all other assertions.
The numbers/people telling you Obama has these fantastically high approval ratings are the same numbers/people who told you Hillary was the best choice and sure winner!!
Looks like you won’t be the one blowing open the doors of the Democrat Delusion echo chamber, Glenn.
You just wandered in and bellowed ‘Hello’ and revel at the reverb and adulation of another cheap shot at our President. The President with the TRULY high approval ratings.
The key players in the Democratic party that helped steal the primary for Clinton were willing to gamble on the final result in the general election. They are willing to take losses for the party in order to keep the corporate gravy coming in. That’s why they were quiet leading up to 2010 when the Obama administration sold out the hugely popular public option knowing that it would really hurt Democratic party chances in that election. They not only sold us out (business as usual), but they sold their own party members out. The losing candidates mostly took it quietly in allegiance to corporate cash flow.
You’re a leftard the same as all leftards, and you won’t tell the truth about what’s going on in America, but at least you spoke a bit of truth: hiLIARy was the WORST possible leftard candidate the DNC could’ve put forward.
Do not agree fully with your analysis. I simply want freedom of speech. Balanced discussion, not to be attacked and called names each time I say something that is against the left neomarxist ideology. That is not democracy, that is totality.
“Ding, Dong, the Witch is Dead.” That’s how many people view the defeat of Hillary Clinton, who, along with current Secretary of State John Kerry, voted as US Senators to murder thousands of Iraqi women, children and old men in the Bush regime’s “Shock and Awe” bombing of Baghdad, which most of our bootlicking national press corps wet their pants with glee reporting to the brain-dead US TV viewers.
You said many Trump voters are relatively well off and some of the poorest voted for Clinton. Really? How does that square with the fact that Trump won more counties where the median household income is less than $50,000?
Some of the same people who voted for Obama voted for Trump. This is as much a rejection of Obama as Hillary. You didn’t mention how he campaigned for her. Even as she was under investigation. That showed Americans he is just as much an insider. A popular president? I think that is a joke. Your analysis is off just as the polls were. I felt he was going to win. Simple observation is all it takes. You still don’t get it and continue to insult Trump voters and assume things that aren’t true. He’s going to prove you wrong again and you’ll have egg on your face.
And the Republican conspiracy to block meaningful change had nothing to do with it, right, Glenn?
Superb analysis, Glenn. But you leave me wanting to know your thoughts on how this new era might play out. I know it is probably too early to speculate, but there are forces at play here that you’ve identified much bigger than a single president.
Admittedly Trump is a wildcard at present. But this election has unleashed energies that have to go somewhere – either channelled constructively, or leading to uncontrolled destruction.
Race was a bigger issue this time. I like the argument that Obama captured some of this same vote last time because Obama wasn’t playing the politics of inclusion. He didn’t have to. It was implicit. He could get the black vote and act like a white guy. But Clinton needed to court the minority vote AND made a big deal about womans progress. That was her strategy. Clinton ‘s central theme of “Stronger together” triggered the race issue in a way that Obama did not.
The current protests isn’t good since adamant protestors can get seriously hurt because authorities will be inflexible and there will be miscreants. I believe that it is better to let the cookie crumble by itself and there is even a slight possibility that Trump is a kind of person who will be willing to change if persuaded in a gentle manner.
Change how? Not to become more like Hillary I hope.
A few friends who supported Trump said ‘wait and see. It won’t be as bad as you think.’ I waited. I saw. It’s worse than I could possibly imagine and we’re only 5 days in:
Cabinet Short List – NYT http://nyti.ms/2erdmph
And now the Dems are getting more stupid.
https://jonathanturley.org/2016/11/12/steep-learning-curve-dnc-staff-rally-behind-brazile-as-democratic-leaders-reportedly-groom-chelsea-for-congress/
I want to say a few things . . . it’s not an analysis but perhaps a few pointers.
While surveys indicated that Hillary was leading, I sensed the possibility of a Donald victory chiefly by a remembrance of #Brexit. But frankly, I also thought that it was beneath my level to waste my attention on two poor personalities. I am sorry to say that to Americans but that is the truth and you probably will agree that a person who is upbeat about waterboarding and another who has no single good quality of her own is hardly a worthwhile topic of discussion, and there are a lot more profitable activities to do than talk like this.
About the first point mentioned: From the glimpses I had of Bernie Sanders, he seemed to be better than Hillary — there was the possibility of goodness in him which is hard to find in Hillary who seems to radiate an aura of passion rather than goodness.
On the second point: Yes, it is true that racism, misogyny, and xenophobia is pervasive in American society and that has contributed to Donald victory. But then, there are 3 things I want to say: 1) While everyone is equal truthfully, there is inequality factually. There is a difference between truth and fact — truth relates to the ultimate permanent reality whereas fact is of this temporary world. When a brainy person is bypassed to give a position to a non-brainy person, there may be resentment. A vote for Donald is then a vote of assertion of the rights of the majority community. 2) Racism, misogyny, and xenophobia are as much extreme in some other countries. For example, most Asian Indians still look up to White Americans while they look down on African Blacks to the extent that Blacks sometimes believe they fare better among Whites than among the Browns. 3) Now, if a leader can sincerely fight against racism, misogyny, and xenophobia, she or he is worthy of praise but if the leader uses these issues for gaining power rather than actually meaning it, then there will be more anger than praise. What has Hillary done for the Blacks or Women or Foreigners? Nothing. She merely rode on the wave of opposition to Donald on these issues and so why will a Black or Woman or Foreigner take the trouble to vote for her?
On the 3rd point: I agree with the author of the article. USA is the most ruthless killing machine in the world, the most voracious consumer and the biggest pervert of Nature, which is very well demonstrated by the newly-elected President’s fetish for waterboarding, dollars and pu.sy grabbing. Except for a few, the American society is depraved. Accept it. There is no need to feel sad or ashamed about it because it is something all cultures, religions, civilizations, individuals etc. go through. Problem will become more severe only if one goes on a denial mode — when one does not heed the sign or the signal. The first step in solving a problem is the acknowledgement that there is a problem. If you don’t accept, it will grow like a cancer hidden inside which will one day become malignant. Now at least, something can be done. American perpetual war machinery has to slow down to the minimum necessary. Americans like to bully other Americans because they are used to bullying the citizens of other countries. Why do 23 American veterans commit suicide everyday from PTSD?
My personal belief was that if Donald won, USA will go down in 4 years and if Hillary won, it will be in 8 years, and since Hillary’s case is slower, the transformation may have been smoother than Donald’s. However, from another viewpoint, the victory of Donald is also good because under Hillary, the self-righteous hypocrisy would have continued whereas now the world knows clearly the intentions of the POTUS and there cannot be a hiding from public scrutiny which had been the case with George Bush Junior who authorized torture in the name of Enhanced Interrogation Technique and whose War on Terror was continued by Drone Warfare with the killing of innocent civilians by the Nobel Peace Prize Winner Barack Obama.
Fine input. I agree with you.
May I kindly add that polls should be taken with a pinch of salt: why assume that people will truthfully tell for which candidate they vote? I also believe in last time change of mind, plus voting as a potest.
I was not surprised by Trumps win. Hillary has displayed violent choices in her actions. Besides, she is overly focused on gaining economic and political power-over-others for her individudal benefit, rather than using her power position to do good for society and nature. Hence, many people do not want more of that, I therefore expected this outcome. Now I sit and wait what will happen because it is not words but actions that creates our factual reality. I will judge Trump’s presidency on his choices.
Who would have thunk it..
Another Dem-trashing, Clinton-bashing piece from Mr. Greenwalt..
Such prescience!
He knew that Democrats were making short shrift of the anger of those white voters, refusing to submit the one candidate that WOULD have passed his purity test (though with absolutely no vetting, we don’t know, do we..?) and instead putting forth the veritable poster child for corporate greed, and blind solipsism..
And, boy, does he paint these poor, misunderstood, struggling, regular-old-Americans, as just the most ignored, benign, commonman, deserving of our respect, because THEY are the victims here..And yes, he begrudgingly lets us know that some of them might be racist/sexist/xenophobic, but they have earned those feelings..And let’s blame it on Clinton, and the “elites”..ooh..while brushing aside those concerns about actual misogyny, Russian influence, etc., as mere distractions..There’s a reason why Greenwalt fails to give creedence to those influences; they don’t fit his ultimate deduction, which is that Dems somehow chose the wrong candidate all along..and there’s a reason why he can’t discuss the transparency and vastness of misogyny, and that’s because he practices it with such ease. The man who is superior to Malcom Nance on security, as we’ve been told, can’t contain his glee.
Activists like Glenn have no choice but to exonerate the Trump sewer scum who occupy a third or more of this country. To expose them as the irredeemable filth they are is to admit that there is no viable solution to the national catastrophe and a decent human being with truly progressive values will NEVER get within 100 miles of the White House. They can’t face this–it’s too much for them.
And yet Trump wants to dismantle Frank-Dodd, to the benefit of the very same actors who brought us the 2008 financial collapse, and wants to sell off our strategic energy reserves, to the benefit of big oil. Meanwhile, his entire transition team is chock full of Republican insiders from large political arenas.
His first 100 days policy platforms available on his website read like a Republican wish list and with a GOP led Congress he’ll be able to get most, if not all, of those things done. Worse, given his narcissistic need to be loved, he’ll be extremely malleable by GOP Congressional insiders. But no, try to explain this to anyone who was a Trump supporter and all they’d repeat is “outsider! lock her up! he supports the blue collar worker!”
Nonsense. Just wait until these folks in the rust belt realize the GOP has a blank check to go union busting and it was under the GOP’s watch – starting with Nixon – that the fundamental manufacturing infrastructure necessary for their survival was sold out from under them. Like always, they’ll realize too late.
C’mon. These vermin can’t add two numbers. They’ve been voting against their own self-interest and in favot of the Republican sewage for decades and they learn nothing because they are not people and do not have the capacity to learn.
Article seems to be more about self congratulation than correctly diagnosing the election. As is true with most white male analysis he is avoiding the underlying driver of Trump’s ascent: racism and sexism. Obviously there were other issues at work but I firmly believe that being a woman candidate is 100% more difficult because of all the perceptions you need to juggle. Men with their momma issues just couldn’t bare the thought of having a powerful woman in charge of their country. And yes many women voted against her as well…but women have voted against their own interests before.
Thank you. Couldn’t be said better.
I will just add this: There is no shortage of progressive movements. They must come together to form a wide Green-Justice coalition and develop a platform and a program to run on in 2018, AGAINST whatever will be left of the Democratic party. The Sanders campaign platform could be a starting point, with the necessary adjustments. Meanwhile, each and every regressive item Trump is going to push, each and every appointment he is going to make, from January on, should be met with demonstrations, occupations and all forms of civil disobedience. We now have the numbers: African-Americans, Latinos, immigrants, Native Americans, students, workers, people about to lose their health insurance… many will sooner than later have plenty of reasons to mobilize – a unique opportunity we must make sure to not let be coopted by the Democratic party.
Thank you for a spot on analysis as usual. I’m horrified at the outcome of the election and it’s eventual realities, but not surprised. Once Bernie was gone it was always two impossible choices, either one bringing it’s own doom.
Bernie was, to my way of thinking, the only voice of reason and hope. Even though he probably wouldn’t have made many radical changes, he might at least have laid the groundwork for future reform.
And the disenfranchised rust belt folks didn’t rally around Bernie because why again? Because they preferred the 1%-er con artist, racist, climate-denying Nazi slob Donald Trump, who has devoted his entire career to pissing on the middle class. His supporters are due nothing but our disgust and contempt.
I feel somewhat obligated to give a disclaimer that my views align more closely with the Republicans than Democrats, but I enjoy reading Greenwald’s articles. I think his general analysis is spot-on, and it helps, I suppose, that I consider myself a Ron Paul Republican rather than the neocons of the Bush genre. That, I think, gives me a bit more open-mindedness towards my fellow “normal” people (I.E. average voters) on the left to try to find the issues that we DO agree on and work towards. Unfortunately, it seems we only ever get to discuss these things after elections, after tempers cool and we can actually start discussion on what this country really needs while our ‘superiors’ in office go off on their quest to break campaign promises and essentially fuck over the whole country for 4 years, be they democrats or republicans.
I believe that the greatest casualty of the US political system is not when you lose an election. The thing I miss most is the lost art of debate. It’s that we are too scared to even engage each other on issues (I’m not talking about politicians debating, which usually turns into a pissing contest about who is the least-corrupt—I’m talking about us regular folks). The risk of debating is that you might lose the argument. Though, don’t despair, losing the argument doesn’t mean it will never happen again and you’ve blown your chances forever, it just means you might have to move onto something else to find common ground for a while, and maybe come back to the issue of disagreement when the political climate changes. Vice versa if you win, don’t assume that the issue is permanently settled and you can relax. Take that as humble, generic advice to anyone, left or right. The goal here shouldn’t be to win or lose, but to find those common ground issues.
I hate to share pessimism when optimism is more appropriate, but my honest opinion is the closest we came to bridging the gap on the issues we might find agreement on, was the cordial relation between Ron Paul and Kucinich in 2008. Both were demonized—frankly, politically-assassinated—by each party’s respective establishment, internally, and never had a chance to make it through the primary stage and be able to present their ideas and integrity to the general public. Ron Paul was basically ignored at the 2012 GOP convention, and we saw what the same caliber of bastards did to Bernie this year. I would have voted for Kucinich over McCain in a heartbeat if it came down to it in November (relax, I didn’t vote for McCain that year). But, as we all saw, none of them made it that far. Because even as us ‘normal people’ might be scared to debate each other, it’s not even allowed by each party’s establishment during the primary phase.
Something is very broken with our primary system, when every election seems to be a choice between who is corrupt and who is slightly less corrupt, and we need to be more involved, and more vocal, in each of our respective parties’ primaries.
Hey Mona. No, it wasn’t horseshit. You have in your astute way been observing some of the milder manifestations of that-which-cannot-be-named-even-anonymously-in-a-dead-comment-thread-because-I-have-a-job-and-a-family. Because of which I sometimes have difficulty coping appropriately with some of life’s slings and arrows. Including but not limited to the election of an overtly racist, openly misogynist, terrifyingly authoritarian, criminally deviant sociopath to my country’s highest office. As well as being told, by a certain oh-so-smart but not especially tactful lady on the internet, that the latter development was MY fault.
Thanks for listening, if you have been. Feel free to send me the bill care of GG. And finally — now, always and forever — FUCK TRUMP.
We have the leaders we deserve.
We includes you.
What Greenwald is saying is that we’ll vote for the alternative – even if it is the worse alternative. Exactly what part of the orthodox upsurge evident now – the ‘open carry’ racism, the homophobia, the anti-Islamism – was unforeseen?
If we do not “select” ethical people to lead / manage the DNC, we will fall flat again. Start by demanding Keith Ellison be posted as Chair to the DNC. Then continue by demanding only ethical TRUE Democrats (meaning people who understand and support a truly PEOPLE based Platform) be involved at all at the DNC. We are sick to death of having Blue Dogs in charge. No more Wasserman-Schultz es. No more Howard Deans. No more Ed Rendells! Sick of the lot of them, and sick of main stream media’s denial of the Voice of the People in reporting. The facts, the truth need to be the MAIN THEME of media. Not the addiction to Status Quo!
Glenn, thank you for every word written, or spoken on behalf of truth! I want us to bring Edward Snowden home, and give him and you all a medal for the work you’ve done to out the truth.
As an outsider from a other country it’s almost embarrassing to see why Americans ar upset about the fact that their perpetuate war makers are not elected and at least a outsider maybe won’t make the same mistake to invade and destabilize country and kill hundreds of thousands people in the proces.
Ar Americans so far from reality that they prefer a politician who for sure wil continu above a person who at least has no dead people on his account! A nationalist in the US is necessary to bring all soldiers back to their home land so that they will not kill even more. This will help their local economy, their soul by not continuing even with more killing and their mind to focus on their domestic problems who ar huge. All democratic voters must have a really big blind spot. This doesn’t mean that the new elected president his the long time solution but at least a cataliser for change because change is needed, one way or the other.
The world is tired to be ruled by elites, corruption and war makers and only for already that reason the US needs the scandal to clean up, if they like it or not! Empires fall because of internal hate, envy and intrest.
Neither Brexit nor Trump were shocking to me. All you had to do was watch the enthusiasm and rallies for both.
It doesn’t help that Hillary world behaved like the election wasn’t necessary, everybody knows she’s going to win. A week before Election Day, her team announced they would shoot off fireworks over the Hudson River after the votes were counted. People don’t like being told their votes don’t matter.
Great essay, Glenn, thoughtful and astute about how the elites in the Democratic Party have abandoned working-class voters. I’m a retired baby boomer, living in Stow, Ohio, in the Greater Akron Metro Area, which is near Kent State University. Though I grew up in a blue collar family of Croatian immigrants during the fifties which was the golden era for union members who worked in the booming smokestack industries in the Midwest. I voted for Senator Bernie Sanders in the Ohio primary. Of course, I knew when I cast my ballot he just couldn’t win the nomination since operatives within the Clinton dynasty had rigged the nomination process with super delegates and various “irregularities” such as the nominating process in the Nevada caucus. But I voted my conscience and expressed solidarity with the insurgency of younger voters within the Democratic Party for Bernie. I also could never vote for Hillary Clinton for another important reason. I served as a medical corpsman in Vietnam. I abhor war, especially more so, unnecessary wars. And Hillary has never seen a war she didn’t like serving in the Senate and in the Obama administration as secretary of state. But I thought Hillary would squeak by and win in Ohio. Then I read an article and viewed an accompanying video on CNN’s website which interviewed formerly loyal working-class Democrats in Youngstown, Ohio, who had decided to change their party affiliation to the GOP for the expressed purpose to vote for Donald Trump and register their disgust with the Democratic Party. In the video, these average working-class voters said the Democrats just didn’t care bout them anymore. Even the county chairmen for the Democrats and the GOP, also interviewed for this article, both said that in their long career in local politics in Mahoning County, they had never seen so many voters, in the thousands I think, change their party affiliation. That was my first hint pf this sea change. The second hint was when Michael Moore said on Bill Maher’s HBO talk show that he feared Donald Trump would win a stunning, upset victory in the election since he still lives in Michigan and had attended several rallies for Trump targeting union members in the auto industry. Of course, the liberal audience loudly booed him. I could vote for Hilary and I certainly wouldn’t vote for Trump, who is essentially a home-grown, American version of a neo-fascist. I would compare the rage and despair of working-class voters in the Rust Belt to a master who repeatedly kicks and abuses the family pet. You can only treat a dog in such an inhumane manner before it starts to growl and bark and eventually bites back at the master. Well, it’s obvious Democratic elites were bitten by the family pet in this election.And in another historical analogy which hearkens back to the Vietnam War, when NVA soldiers stormed into Saigon when it fell on April 30, 1075, the war hawks who had supported this debacle went on the warpath in the MSM and they then shamelessly blamed everyone except themselves especially critics of the war, who were known back then as doves, for our defeat much in the same way that Democratic elites are now scapegoating critics such as yourself. I though Hillary or Trump would be a disaster for this country. I still think so. I thought about voting for Dr. Jill Stein, but I realized on the morning of November 8th just how completely I’m disgusted with this stranglehold the major parties have over the political process and sat out this election. I understand the working-class have probably voted against their own interest electing Trump. But from their perspective, having lost so much since the economic meltdown in 2008 along with decades of a hollowing out of good-paying, union jobs in the Rust Belt, the working class feels it just has nothing left to lose of which the Brexit vote was an omen. So the family pet decided to bite the master. And things will probably get much worse during the Trump administration. In the latter part of his long and disgusted career as a novelist and essayist, the late Gore Vidal was always lamenting in his interviews and in print he now lived in an American version of the collapse of the Weimar Republic in Germany. The upset victory by Trump officially marks this end phase in our continuing decline as a democratic nation. Or as the Chinese like to say politely when they want to cast aspersions upon people, “May you live in interesting times.” So fasten your seat belt. We’re in for a bumpy ride.
Those posting here who are on the left/progressive, please consider this and work together instead of aiming invective at each other: This awful result has a silver lining- the next mobilization has already begun!
It is a workin progress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snzhIJi35FY
And this is an opportunity for us to immediately continue a mass movement, rather then going back to sleep and waiting for a new Democratic administration to get things done.
Let us decry the hate that is a symptom and used to divide us, but focus on the economic and political disaffection that can bind us with many who voted for Trump. While Trump supporters may say: “i like the idea of the wall, immigrants get too much money, etc.” and they don’t say “I like Trump because he will help my economic suffering”, i still think the economic suffering and political disaffection IS the underlying CAUSE of which the symptoms are hateful spew. In the thirties in Germany, people did not say “I like Hitler because he is going to help solve this hyperinflation and recession through a jobs program and military buildup” they supported hatred and scapegoating… but AN underlying cause (not the only one, but a big driver towards despotism) was economic instability for years unaddressed/unsolved by the political system… So, I am not saying to ignore the racism, sexism, homophobia, birther-ism, impulsiveness, bad hair, multiple divorces, bankruptcies or anything else that is the dysfunction of the Trump phenomena… but in our own self-interest, recognize that there is opportunity in adding those disaffected voters back into the fold behind the next progressive a la Bernie (white working class, white women, latino working class, millenials, etc, etc)… dont blame the voters, dont blame each other… but listen to the message og greenwald as well as thomas frank, cornell west, nina turner, and chris hedges… and recognize what went wrong here, and how this is an opportunity to build and win in 2018 and 2020…
The middle class was sick of being sidelined and ignored by wealthy elites who couldn’t care less about their legitimate needs and aspirations?
Well, as it happened, 2016 was their lucky year. A passionate, incorruptible, non-elite politician arrived on the scene, devoting himself body and soul to the message of lifting the working class out of despair, helping them acquire a piece of the American dream and seizing the country back from the venal, corrupt, “millionaire and billionaires” who have preyed on them for far too long.
Had Bernie’s message truly resonated with these downtrodden folks, they would have marched on Manhattan, dragged Donald Trump from his office in Trump Tower, cut his head off and set fire to his corpse.
But no–they voted for him in vast and enthusiastic numbers, because he was saying what Bernie Sanders was NOT saying and which they needed to hear from their favored candidate: “Kill the niggers. Kill the ragheads. We love guns. Global warming is a hoax.”
THAT resonated with them. End of story.
End of your story and thank God.
Interesting analysis that sadly avoids the issue of sexism. Whether a primary or interactive variable, this should have been addressed. I accept the general points of Greenwald’s article, but would Elizabeth Warren have done better? Too easy for men to promote a class based analysis without considering the reality of sexism: they interact.
I second this, Fiona, and I would add that the racist, homophobic, xenophobic, and Islamophobic rhetoric in this campaign from Trump and his supporters is hard to ignore. If you live in a country that doesn’t seem to respect you for the color of your skin, for example, it is hard not to see this an affirmation of that suspicion. The highly diverse college students I teach feel hated by half the country and now it seems official. To them, this is a symbolic victory for white supremacy. Greenwald is as astute as ever but the country was put in an untenable position: You vote out of class desperation for Trump and that vote condones hate. You vote for status quo Clinton to quell hate and that vote maintains class desperation.
Agreed, SHW. I teach CC students in deep red suburban TX. The day after Trump’s “victory,” several came to class chanting “build that wall.” Clinton lost EC vote owing to inability to piece together fragile coalition and enthuse base: it’s strange to ignore sexism in an election with first woman nominee, and where the negative identity politics you note (blatant racism, xenophobia etc) played such a significant role. For sure she was a damaged candidate (by self and, sometimes absurdly, by others), but I wonder whether the forgotten working class voters Glenn discusses would have been so ready to support Trump if the Democrats had fielded a white straight male.
That is it. Blame it all on sexism. While in reality people just did not want someone as corrupt as her back in the white house and the only other viable option was the lunatic Trump. A valid argument of sexism playing a part could be made if it was candidate not as corrupt as Hillary Clinton.
Bernie Sanders could have won if he had not been cheated out of his spot.
What a predictably sexist response. Hillary won the primaries. Period. Though I, too, preferred Bernie’s policies, he lost – irrespective of DNC.
I feel awful for your students.
I believe that you do too.
However, I hope you feel awful ENOUGH to motivate you to do your students the honour of leaving out “seem” and “seems” in the future.
Your students were never describing a “suspicion”; they were describing REALITY.
It is a small tragedy every time a student confides in a trusted teacher, or professor, about REAL problems, only to see that professor imply that they’re imagining it (even in part).
Likewise, your students don’t “feel” hated; they ARE hated.
It’s not their perception that’s the problem.
Regarding: “To them, this is a symbolic victory for white supremacy.”
No. OBJECTIVELY, this is an ACTUAL victory for white supremacy.
If you care about your students – and I do believe that you do – then please don’t compound their oppression, by denying it, or by denying part of it, or by denying the degree of it.
Denial is toxic, and the fact that it comes, so routinely, out of the face of a friend or ally, only makes it worse.
Lisa,
I’m assuming you’re a woman, from your name. I am too.
I find your comment interesting, in that you are replying to a comment sub-thread on the unstated/unaddressed sexism Fiona & SHW see as part of the election results.
I find it interesting bc you’re telling SHW how she should see & discuss the matter with her students, which particular words she should revise/remove, so her statements more closely align with how YOU see & would discuss the matter. Implying, of course, that you perceive it so much more clearly, and you’re now going to explain the proper way to think & behave, and that any deviation from your approach is denial. It’s incredibly patriarchal. aka: mansplaining.
I find a lot of women doing this to other women online (although I actually don’t know if SHW is a woman or not, but I didn’t want to do the whole ‘he/she’ thing). Paradoxically, this often occurs around issues of sexism. But as a woman, for some reason, it irks me even more when a woman ‘splains how things really are. It’s a very subtle, and very definite thing.
Racism isn’t something that SWH’s students feel suspicious may exist; 63% of white men and 53% of white women proved it SO concretely, that denial CAN’T be tolerated.
SWH used four modifiers, distancing himself/herself four times from his/her own acknowledgment of racism.
If this is SWH’s habit – which using FOUR QUALIFIERS suggests it is – then SWH may be badly failing to support the students who spoke to him/her on the issue of racism.
Reflexive denial is a habit that is very damaging to victims of racist abuse and racist oppression.
It’s clear that YOU don’t give a flying fuck, but SWH MIGHT CARE.
Those STUDENTS are WORTH STICKING UP FOR.
I believe that SWH might think so, too.
However, if SWH wants me to fuck off, he/she won’t require you to paternalistically TAKE OVER for him/her.
On THAT subject:
You’ve failed to understand what mansplaining is.
EVEN WORSE, you’ve failed to understand that the existence of ‘mansplaining’ does not invalidate the act of ‘explaining’.
You don’t even understand what YOU said, let alone what I said, let alone why I said it, let alone what SWH would think of it, if he/she ever reads it.
Nonetheless, you feel entitled to inflict a vacuous slur on a comment you don’t understand, AND you feel qualified to speak for a college professor whom you do not know, on the subject of whether or not my perspective is one that is familiar to him/her.
I did read it. Just now. I use qualifiers (hedge words in linguistics) to be more civil in my posts, to soften them in what can so quickly become confrontational vitriol in online discussions.
But you’re right, Lisa, that was a poor place to hedge with “seems.” As you suspected, I don’t disregard the reality of the students I teach. Quite the opposite which is why they are so comfortable telling me how they feel. They know they live in a country with wide and deep discrimination, but they thought we had come further than this election indicated–hence feelings.
And there was a lot of “feeling” last week (including online) and I don’t use “feeling” as a qualifier, to signify the opposite of fact. Feelings are as real as reason and perhaps more important in some regards.
However, I also don’t believe every vote cast for Trump was born from hate. It tolerated hate. It condoned it. But Greenwald is not wrong about what was driving many voters. Look, I grew up in the poor, rural south and I can say definitively that economic desperation breeds some mean, mean spirits. If you think no one cares about you…
Thanks for replying.
If you use unequivocal language when speaking with your students, then I’m glad of that.
Soft language can devastate a victim.
It also emboldens victimizers – who infer that people don’t see a problem with their behaviour – so it’s my opinion that it should be abandoned entirely, but I understand your impulse.
Regarding: “It tolerated hate. It condoned hate.”
That is exactly the aspect of the vote that I was referring to, when I disagreed with Greenwald’s implication (via Carney’s tweet) that white supremacy isn’t a factor for voters who previously voted for Obama. A significant degree of racism is NECESSARY to tolerate and condone the racist oppression that was promised.
I’ve never suggested that the majority of white voters, voted for a white supremacist, for the sole sake of racist malice.
What I DO assert is that racist indifference necessarily has to be a component of those votes.
I further assert that the racist indifference of the majority is ENOUGH to support every manner of racist atrocity.
Subjecting every member of a race to slavery – and sustaining that dynamic over hundreds of years – didn’t require the hatred of the majority; it just required the majority to tolerate, and condone, the racist savagery of SOME.
On the subject of slavery: Prison stocks went through the roof in reaction to this election.
White America has had to endure a small amount of what corporate America inflicts on everyone else. In stark contrast to a reasonable conclusion – that victimizing people for profit is bad – the majority of white voters were racist enough to agree to the unbridled victimization of non-white Americans.
In TRADE.
For a promise of magic beans.
This degree of racism constitutes a crisis.
Problem with DG’s analysis of US election is that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. The fact that Trump garnered an increased white, rural, evangelical over 45 vote is no testament to where the country is going. As the geezers die out the under 45 vote, which was unimpressed by the 30 year old phony Clinton scandals, will again overwhelmingly choose the secular, pragmatic and Democratic solutions to our problems. OneTermTrump may be indicted or even impeached if the House goes Democratic in 2018 due to Trump’s inability to produce what he fraudulently promised.
Mr. Greenwald stop patting yourself on the back. This election just proves how stupid the American electorate is. They would rather believe bullcrap from a snake oil salesman than use their brains, if they have any brains. Who knows, maybe Trump will solve the global warming crisis by plunging us into a nuclear winter. Too bad there won’t be enough of us left to give a crap.
Those posting here who are on the left/progressive, please consider this and work together instead of aiming invective at each other: This awful result has a silver lining- the next mobilization has already begun! And this is an opportunity for us to immediately continue a mass movement, rather then going back to sleep and waiting for a new Democratic administration to get things done.
Let us decry the hate that is a symptom and used to divide us, but focus on the economic and political disaffection that can bind us with many who voted for Trump. While Trump supporters may say: “i like the idea of the wall, immigrants get too much money, etc.” and they don’t say “I like Trump because he will help my economic suffering”, i still think the economic suffering and political disaffection IS the underlying CAUSE of which the symptoms are hateful spew. In the thirties in Germany, people did not say “I like Hitler because he is going to help solve this hyperinflation and recession through a jobs program and military buildup” they supported hatred and scapegoating… but AN underlying cause (not the only one, but a big driver towards despotism) was economic instability for years unaddressed/unsolved by the political system… So, I am not saying to ignore the racism, sexism, homophobia, birther-ism, impulsiveness, bad hair, multiple divorces, bankruptcies or anything else that is the dysfunction of the Trump phenomena… but in our own self-interest, recognize that there is opportunity in adding those disaffected voters back into the fold behind the next progressive a la Bernie (white working class, white women, latino working class, millenials, etc, etc)… dont blame the voters, dont blame each other… but listen to the message og greenwald as well as thomas frank, cornell west, nina turner, and chris hedges… and recognize what went wrong here, and how this is an opportunity to build and win in 2018 and 2020…
Liberals like Glenn Greenwald and Noam Chomsky—both of whom I have gigantic respect for—have finally gotten what they always say they wanted: the will of the American people rising up against the entrenched elites, both the DNC and RNC to begin with. The result is the greatest catastrophe in US history. Just because the government and huge corporations are lousy does NOT make the American people a force for good. They are the opposite of a force for good. They are central to the calamity that now threatens the very existence of humankind. Liberals, for easily understood reasons, can not face that reality. It means that there is no hope and nowhere to go from here. Unfortunately, that is the case, whether liberals want to accept it or not.
I think there is one more parallel between Brexit and Trump: Both the US and the UK have moved against their coal without doing much to foster the development of alternative industries. Germany, for example, has dampened the decline of the coal mines with structure funds and industrial policy. People in the former mining district do not seem to feel the same alienation from “the system,” and they might have objectively better chances.
I think that blanket blaming “corrupt elites” is just adopting Trump’s duplicitous discourse. Puts “the elites” on par with “the Mexicans” as some facile bogeymen to rouse the crowds. There are concrete policy decisions that lead to the chasm between the shiny city and the depressed hinterland, not just elite indifference. Ironically, Trump’s pals are the ones who oppose all industrial policy, and Hillary actually had a clue and a program (if anyone had bothered to listen the second half of the “we are going to put them out of work” sentence or followed the verbal links to her website she gave in the second debate). Of course, Hillary is a flawed messenger and she clearly decided that it was not expedient or not necessary for her to engage Trump on his promises. There is also all that other noise (guns, marriage, etc). And of course, the media have enjoyed to ride the “scandals” instead of asking the candidates and their spokespersons to discuss policy.
Since that Lewandowski guy was sitting there anyway, I think he could have asked to explain in detail how more tax cuts are supposed to finally funnel investment into areas that need it and what measures Trump is envisioning to drain the swamp (if any). Perhaps the American electorate is really too stupid to understand. But as a matter of fact, there weren’t many attempts to demand explanations. So I give you that elite failure there.
I would also like to submit something else. I acknowledge that there is not much trust in the surveys at the moment, but there is not a lot evidence that people across Europe by and large share the Brexiteers sentiment. Folks are having specific gripes with immigration, with the handling of the economic crisis and with Merkel’s power. But it also looks like there is still a solid recognition of the positive impulses for education and development that are coming through the Brussels pipeline (and which Britain throughout their membership did everything to sabotage). Structurally, all the backlash might be much less about global markets and political integration and more against ideological government that pretends it is letting the economy run its course and really steers it toward the money.
I agree that it is no use talking to each other about how stupid Rapey the KKKlown’s supporters are, however, it isn’t pointing out their stupidity that’s wrong. Aiming that message at EACH OTHER, instead of at THEM, is what’s WRONG.
No one ever invests the time in forcing an idiot to defend his opinion.
So what if they’re “painfully stupid” and so what if you think “we all know” they’re wrong? Force THEM to know it, too.
Especially when they’re family. Your militant extremists are YOUR responsibility.
We treat morons as if they are delicate. They’re NOT. Some of them are BRUTALLY not delicate.
Mr. Greenwald, I share your opinion, to a point. You downplay – and partially deny – the racist inhumanity inherent in that vote. As a result, we have different perspectives on how much respect they’re owed, but it is an inarguable fact that denying their existence has ALWAYS been harmful.
During the course of the entire election, no one with a public voice challenged any of the supposedly ‘non-racist’ supporters, to justify their (entirely racist) APATHY for the suffering of non-white people.
The empowerment of white supremacist terrorist organizations, and the emboldening of white supremacist terrorists, doesn’t have to be the GOAL of their vote, to be an ACCEPTED CONSEQUENCE of their vote.
63% of white men and 53% of white women are SYMPATHETIC ENOUGH to WHITE SUPREMACIST TERRORISM, that they found that ACCEPTABLE.
That I completely agree with. But you are entirely wrong about this:
It is simply to face reality that white working class people who voted for Barack Obama, some of them twice, this time voted for Donald Trump — in significant numbers — has meaning. Exit polls virtually all show the number one issue motivating voters was economics.
Populism can manifest in rightwing, racist and fascist versions, or in he Scandinavian social democratic model. At a time of utter populist fever, the Democrats made sure the ONLY populism on offer was the rightwing, racist variety. Whites who have less to fear (but not all of them were whites) were willing to overlook the racism and authoritarianism due to economic anxiety.
There is no other plausible explanation for the white working class voters who were Obama and this time were Trump, than that racism was not the primary factor for many white Trump voters. The racist sociopaths are the beneficiaries.
Either READ MY COMMENT, or don’t offer your offensive opinion.
You mischaracterized MY point, and then you went on to fail to understand the significance of what YOU said:
IT DOES NOT MAKE IT OKAY, to say, “Whites… were willing to overlook the racism and authoritarianism due to economic anxiety.”
Whites were willing to overlook SLAVERY due to economic anxiety.
No matter how YOU feel about it, THAT was ALSO racist.
Whites, agreeing to the abuse of non-whites – because they imagine they’ll get something in trade – IS GROTESQUELY RACIST.
So we’re clear, YOUR apathy, YOUR denial, and YOUR belief that trading on the suffering of non-whites is a defence, rather than a condemnation, are a racist perspective.
Get your head around the fact that having voted for Obama DOES NOT ABSOLVE anyone of ANY of the racist shit they’ve done, let alone does it permanently absolve them of everything racist thing they do, for the rest of their lives.
Likewise, the fact that there were some minority voters, who were delusional enough to vote against their own basic safety, ALSO does not absolve whites of being RACIST ENOUGH to throw non-whites to the wolves.
MY comment is ENTIRELY true. Read it.
Then read another:
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/democrats-trump-and-the-ongoing-dangerous-refusal-to-learn-the-lesson-of-brexit/?comments=1#comment-306142
You are a stupefying example of the cluelessly arrogant fool responsible for the election results that you created. Provide a specific example of racism from Trump, apart from his daring to deviate from your fanatical (and baseless) religious belief that institutional racism exists anywhere except for your own party.
I am not a Democratic Party supporter; you’re just too stupid to understand that a person can scrutinize MORE THAN ONE POLITICAL CANDIDATE.
Speaking of which: 1) Rapey the KKKlown refuses to condemn white supremacist terrorists or white supremacist terrorist organizations, 2) those white supremacist terrorist organizations AGREE that he is THEIR candidate, 3) he has proved himself a racist landlord, over and over again, and 4) he has called Black Lives Matter a terrorist organization.
FAR MORE THAN ENOUGH, you retarded prick.
Listen here, sunshine. As a legal East Indian immigrant and Aspie who proudly voted for Donald Trump, I do not have to explain myself to you or any of your snooty, know-it-all friends.
And if you got a problem with it, then go cry some tears like your birdbrained heroes, Lena Dunham and Miley Cyrus. You and your ilk do not define me, do not define America and do not define the trajectory of this great nation.
Got an issue with that? Tough luck, kid. Keep kvetching like a baby, of all I care, because it was this exact same grade of snobbery and elitist that cost you the election and left the Democrat Party a shriveled shell of its former self.
Have you ever considered the possibility that it is you and not “they” who are wrong?
If you are not at least open to the idea then you will never have a discussion with anyone, you will just be preaching to them. And that is rather pointless, isn’t it?
Yes. I have also considered the possibility that the holocaust was justified, the rape of Nanking improved the lives of Chinese people and Jay Z is a brilliant musician, (though admittedly, I didn’t consider these possibilities for very long).
No, fuckwit. I’ve never been “open to the idea” of Nazism, either.
I base my opinions on facts, not by obliviously following the ass of the cow in front of me.
Choke on your plea for a docile herd-mentality.
@Derick S
Apology accepted, and if you are still reading it seems you misunderstood my purpose in quoting Cory Doctorow regarding table-flipping and the Ultimatum Game. You wrote:
I absolutely do not endorse table-flipping if that mans voting for a godddam Klan-level fascist. Neither does Cory Doctorow. No, he is simply describing human nature, and my purpose in quoting him was also descriptive.
There was no prescriptive intent at all.
North Carolina: HRC got fewer working class votes than Obama
Journalist Michael Tracey
Mona,
I don’t expect you to apologize to me. On the contrary, I owe you an apology, big-time, for guilt-tripping you as you correctly called me out for doing. I’m sorry about that, really.
The thing is, I’m not tough enough to joust with you, and not disciplined enough to resist engaging when I feel provoked. So I just need to not be here, that’s all. I wish you all the best, actually. You make stellar contributions here, and, I’m sure, elsewhere as well. Take care.
Gator, apology accepted. Look, I generally enjoy “jousting,” but not this, not with you.
I believe that at the time you announced your primary vote for HRC I reacted not with anger, but with stunned despair, or something close to it — for that’s certainly what I felt. I literally could not understand it.
I’m not a psychologist, but what I know about you and your family dynamics vis-a-vis politics gave me some insight, but only some. Maybe.
Very tentatively I concluded you were in a very difficult place because your politics, on several important matters, have been sharply deviating from those held by your spouse and other family members.
I sensed you acting out some sort of angst-y ritual, confessing and seeking absolution. Somewhat manically jumping back and forth between in-your-face justifications and sorrowful backtracking and apologies. It’s seemed pretty odd, really. Like you are in some sort of emotional trouble.
Of course, that could all be horseshit — I can’t actually know, it’s only my best guess based on years of online interaction with you.
I do not at all wish you ill. Had I not long been fond of you I could not have been so truly and personally distressed by your primary vote.
Right now, a fascist is president-elect of the United States. How bad it will be is yet unknown, but it is going to be some level of awful, especially for non-white, non-straight people. We don’t have to agree on the great error of having supported HRC over Bernie in order to fight together and stand in solidarity with Trump’s victims. But you honestly cannot be part of correcting the political follies and deficits of the Democratic Party that led to Trump if you don’t come to accept why not supporting Bernie was a tragic error.
My goodness, are you the arbiter regarding who should or should not post on this site? Shutting people down is not the answer, in fact, shutting people down was a major cause of the eruption.
Economics: Not PRIMARILY racism
The Detroit News: How Trump won the vote of Mich.’s white working class, my emphasis:
Similar analyses apply in the rest of the Rust Belt states where white Obama voters this time went Trump. Democrats cannot win without a significant share of the white working class. This cohort felt it could afford to put economics first and ignore the racism and authoritarianism, if they even allow themselves to see all of that.
Of course the Trump election stems from resentment and anger at the treatment of working class people by arrogant Dems who have become the tools of Wall Street. However, I think there is another factor that should be mentioned: how could so many people vote for such a monster? There is an underlying “implicit” racial bias that white US-Americans bring to elections – something that makes us different from Europeans. Voting white-class interest, not just economic-class interest, is deeply ingrained into the unconscious bias of most white Americans. I think these biases allowed white Americans to ignore or discount the racist and xenophobic comments by Trump. Of course there was also a sexist bias – which discounted his misogyny – but this bias is not so unique to Americans. The racial biases are programmed into most white Americans starting at birth, passed on from parent to child, generating the unconscious pathways that promote conscious racism in the most extreme cases, and blindness to “white privilege” for the less extreme cases. Sexist biases are passed from generation to generate in a similar way – as we learn what is expected of us. Since most of our behaviors are controlled by the unconscious portions of our brains through a reward system (dopamine, endorphins, oxytocin, etc.), racist and sexist unconscious biases generated at an early age by from our interactions with our parents and our culture program us accordingly. Unlearning these biases is extremely difficult, requiring the equivalent of years, if not decades, of therapy. But raising our conscious awareness of these biases, and developing an attitude to question those feelings that push us to react in favor of those biases, is possible with less effort (reading some books and joining a group to discuss issues of racism, sexism, etc). Clearly Trump had a core group of supporters that were openly (consciously) racist, misogynist and xenophobic – but I don’t think this was a large enough group to win him the election. His statements should have made him a pariah. They were so at odds with our stated values and morals that they should have made it impossible for so many people to vote for him no matter how angry they were at the establishment. Instead, those comments must have been ignored. It is likely that confirmation bias, some of which is unique to white Americans (deep whiteness indoctrination from the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, and the New Jim Crow), played a major role in filtering out the ugliness of Trump and making him acceptable. Until Americans fully come to grips and acknowledge our shameful history of slavery, Native American genocide and treatment of women, we will never fully rid ourselves of the implicit biases we pass on from generation to generation. It seems to me that it was these biases that allowed so many Americans to vote for such a monster as Trump.
Mostly agree. The working class rage thing is a highly specious argument by in large, as these same people expressed no such seething animosity toward the primary architect of their bitter fate. George W. Bush demolished the national and global economy, putting millions of people out of work and forcing many from their homes, not to mention, sending them to Iraq and Afghanistan to die in his genocide of lies. Backlash? They love the guy so much, they picked a duplicate this time around–another fat, hate-filled violent, 1%-er psychotic who preaches more or less the same disastrous mantra every other Republican slimeball has foisted on the public, with a handful of minor variations.
Which its why many of us voted for Dr. Stein.
Myself included.
Jimmy Dore: Obama Enrages With Lame Response To Trump But Bernie Nails It
I needed that. It’s as I said, he’s funny as hell even when he is totally fired up and hitting ever nail.
One reason I needed it just now, though, is because, for good reason, I rarely casually “talk politics” with friends and acquaintances because a shallow, surface conversation is of no interest or worse. And to go into detail is just not worth the effort and almost inevitably degrades to my being, misread, insulted or some other combination of a negative outcome.
But…I pretty much accidentally fell into a short conversation with someone, and all of the above is what came of it. All I said to the other person is that I had no fondness for the Democratic party, aside from how repulsed I am by the Republican Party because of the entrenched, systemic failure of the Democratic Party. And also I expressed my disagreement with this person on her opinion of Hillary Clinton. But even on that, I simply said that I can’t stand Hillary Clinton. And, as you and most others here know, that vehement dislike is based on a very deeply informed opinion. But, her reaction to me on that statement was to walk off in a huff and say, “That’s your problem.” I did bother to tell her that, no, it’s not my “problem,” it’s my opinion. And for her to say that it is my “problem” makes no sense but more importantly is just insulting.
What all of that has to do with being pleased to have just now watched Jimmy Dore is that it was invigorating and reassuring to see and hear someone just kick ass like that, going way beyond what little I said to that person today, and knowing that Dore wasn’t being the least bit hyperbolic, he was just goddamned nailing it, as you said.
Thanks for posting the link, Maisie. I would have seen it eventually, but the ‘Right Now’ timing for me was really important and fortuitous. Helped pull me out of a kind of a depressed, half-angry funk.
Kitt, I have had very similar experiences with people at work who self-righteously cried about HRC losing. If I mention, for instance, the fact that arms sales doubled while she was Sec of State, they look at me blankly. They don’t know what that means and they don’t fucking care. They don’t know and don’t care about Libya. Nothing. I love Dore. I just watched that am I am glad that he is not giving fucking Obama a pass.
Thank you for putting it all in perspective in clear and engaging language.
@PEDINSKA
You are truly a class act in every sense of that term. Even though I don’t really know you, I’m sure that every person who does is the better for it.
I think my emotional well-being necessitates an indefinite leave of absence from this forum. I’m not psychologically built to withstand the torrent of abuse from a certain omnipresent commenter here, and it just isn’t worth it. So I’m going to spend more time on my current project of reading the Harry Potter series with my daughters, while Mrs. Gator and I try to figure out how to raise them to be strong and decent people in Donald Trump’s America. Take care.
If you are expecting me to apologize for answering you when you inquired as to what I thought of your vote — your PRIMARY vote — you are wholly misguided.
After having had the gall to come here some months back and spew vomitrocious shit about the delight of meeting and shaking hands with Hillary Clinton, and after having announced you comfortably voted for her in the Florida primary, you then had the gall — on election night in the early evening before the results were apparent — to say this to me:
Gator, that I have not simply told you to fuck yourself at several junctures is a testament to my restraint. The idea that you have been subject to a “torrent of abuse” is self-pitying, guilt-driven crap — and upset that I will not give you the absolution you seek.
This, from the hysterical, demented loon who insists Bernie Sanders would have won the election because two former Hillary supporters went on Facebook declaring it to be so.
Get some fucking help, lady.
You are a lying, fallacy-laden troll whom I will usually substantively ignore. Including here.
You’re not ignoring anything, you’re making a truly embarrassing effort to defend yourself and your hysterical blather. You should stop.
You like many are seriously overstating the extent to which this election represented a “crushing defeat.”
The election turned on 110,000 votes (1/10 of 1% of the total vote count) in 3 swing states (MI/PA/WI), and Hillary WON the popular vote.
She was not irrefutably rejected.
I only say this not to suggest the outcome should have been different, but to temper our instinct to draw grand conclusions on the basis of a result on a knife’s edge.
At least the weather has been nice. Seattle has had 9 record high temperatures during the first 11 days of November …
It takes a brilliant legal mind like Glenn Greenwald’s to come up with a convoluted argument as to why the Brexit imbeciles are not responsible for Brexit and the demented schistosomes who voted for Trump are not responsible for all the horror certain to follow this election.
Stupid.
An interesting read with many good points. I do find it odd that Trump is being viewed as “tearing down the establishment.” It’s a false portrayal by the press and a narrative that will soon disappoint his supporters. He is part of the establishment and an elite in from the business world. We already see him bringing other elites from the right into his proposed government (most recently, apparently considering Jamie Dimon from JPMorgan as Treasury Secretary, one of those notoriously responsible for the financial crisis of 2008). And we see the elite Republicans lining up in Congress to support him. The system won’t change with Trump and I really struggle to understand how those suffering from economic displacement could see him as the person to fix things until you consider the xenophobia, misogyny, and racism Trump used to support his economic narrative. The idea that white middle America is suffering because other people – minorities and immigrants and women – took what was theirs. This article also only considers the “downtrodden” as white people who voted for Trump. He’s curiously missing any minority groups in his analysis who have also deeply suffered from economic displacement in addition to racism, yet did not find the solution to that suffering in voting for Trump. I understand his point that it is counterproductive to label people who voted for him as bigots, but its quite inaccurate and simplistic to claim that people who could vote for Obama can’t also be racist. There is some strong white privilege inherent in being able to vote for Trump despite his racism and xenophobia because when you are white that hatred won’t impact you. And it becomes easier to see how people might think Trump will fix the economy when he weaves that narrative into hatred and blame towards anyone who doesn’t look like him. So I agree with the author’s economic and elite analysis to a point – neoconservatism and neoliberalism are both to blame – but don’t think he can so easily dismiss the ugly racism and xenophobia this campaign has legitimized. I don’t what we are going to do about that.
a post-script: If you don’t think racism played a part in this too, you are in denial, “big-time”, to borrow a phrase from our President-elect. Even if they voted for Obama once or twice, overcoming any racism. I was out in the rural areas and had many, many discussions with voters there. A feeling that “they” have gone too far in asserting their place in our society; that now isn’t the time for a woman president; that Obama and “the liberals” are letting too many non-white, non-Christians into the country. There wasn’t any reasoning with them about what the Republicans did to undermine their social and economic security. It’s a toxic mix, indeed, but don’t for a minute entertain the illusion that racism wasn’t part of it. And given the close numbers, it probably accounts for the difference in the votes.
Much of what you say is of course spot on, the most important being that the Democratic party got its very soul and strength from the working and middle classes. Starting with Jimmy Carter (deregulation!), continuing with Bill Clinton’s “third way” and, sadly, even much of Obama, it diverged more and more from that path. But not entirely. To the extent that anything was done for that base in those decades, it was done by Democrats. And you can’t lose sight of the fact that the Republican party’s sole purpose over the last 8 years was to make Obama a failed president. The major failing was not global trade but not harnessing the immeasurable wealth that is generated by trade for an economy that was equitable, as the northern European social democracies have done. Not choose between trade and justice, but to USE trade to achieve economic justice. And believe it or not, measures to do that were embedded in what HRC was proposing, thanks in no small part to the phenomenon of Sanders and what’s left of the left. BUT HERE’S THE POINT: HILARY WON MORE VOTES THAN TRUMP DID! So, of course, there was a strategic failing to see that the votes she got would add up to an electoral college majority. But noone can be as dismissive as all of this appears to be; more than half of the voters picked her. Finally, the most developed muscle of the left has been the cultural issues. And thank God for that. But the other muscle — the economic one — if not atrophied, is greatly withered. The Labor Unions, Elizabeth Warren, and millions of others (me included) have never dropped that mission. It’s long past time to beef it back up again. And Trump will NOT be true to those whose distress and desperation he manipulated. It’s already beginning.
Thank you. Some of us have been saying something similar for months, if not years, but not as well or as cogently. Too bad those that need to hear this cannot.
Glenn Greenwald in today’s WaPo: Trump will have vast powers. He can thank Democrats for them.
The comments are pathetic. One commenter thinks that Glenn hopes Trump “will let him come home,” which I assume means that commenter knows nothing about Glenn’s whereabouts or why he’s there or that he has been “home” numerous times since the Snowden publications.
Another commenter thinks Glenn is in Ecuador. Then there is just so much of the usual junk at him or about him that you can see on twitter every day.
What fucking morons, but also frightened humans. As it happens, earlier today I emailed Glenn to tell him (which he doesn’t need to hear from me, but I feel the need “to do something”) to talk to his lawyers and maybe stay out of the country after Trump is sworn in.
I take no pleasure in seeing — and he took no pleasure in having occasion to write — that column. Schadenfreude cannot even remotely begin to compensate for the horror of the truth he told in that piece. “I told you so” simply cannot satisfy when the stakes are this high.
An Obama and or/Hillary Democrat reading that has to invoke psychological defenses of some variety– how many people could easily accept responsibility for reality Glenn set forth? Attacking the messenger is the human reaction for most.
One commenter rightly said to GG:
“Because it is so true, you column will be despised.”
Oddly, as a long-time liberal far-lefter and former supporter of the Democratic Party, I had mixed emotions on election night. I fear what Trump may do to this country, but I also fear what Hillary Clinton would have done by reaffirming the narrative of the power elite and their “entitled” claim to authority as Glenn observes. Trump will blow that up and it will create a lot of uncertainty and disruption. But I view it as a necessary route out of the strangle hold on our lives by the elite institutions of this country and their friends throughout the world. If we want to do anything about Global Warming, economic inequality and the social safety net, we will have to rid ourselves of the piggish elite. This is the first horrible step, but a horrible step is all that can loosen their grip. Next, let us bring the Democratic Party establishment down by making them own what has become of this country.
Once in a while, once in a blue moon, as I’m following American politics, new and interesting discoveries appear. And my spotty, incomplete picture of American history gets filled in ever so slightly.
On the news I saw something remarkable. Now, American school kids probably learn this by rote so Americans, you can skip this.
It was a news story about people, predominately women and girls, standing in line in a cemetery. They do this every election apparently, but this year the line was longer. They were waiting hours. When they got to this one particular head stone, they left an “I Voted” sticker. You couldn’t read the name on the grave. The grave marker, a small, unassuming, weathered, crumbling one, was completely covered in a skin of stickers. Hundreds of stickers on this one stone, in this one old, small cemetery.
So naturally I Wiki’ed it.
Apparently there was this person called “Susan B Anthony”. Who according to her bio…must have been a cross between Supergirl, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Katniss Everdeen, Xena the Warrior Princess, and Wonder Woman.
The condensed version…worked tirelessly for universal suffrage, faced down angry mobs, got arrested for trying to vote….in her spare time she risked her life helping Black slaves escape. And formed alliances in America and around the world promoting equal rights.
Now America wasn’t the first nation to grant women the right to vote, and other nations have had female leaders. But it will still be greatly symbolic when America joins the club. I must admit, I would like to see that.
But looking at the picture of those people visiting that cemetery, they are not mourning someone who is dead. They are celebrating that Susan Anthony’s dream is still alive. And if there are women in America half the superhero she was, I know who’s going to win this fight.
remember rhambo’s unbounded hubris when progressives were appalled that he would immediately throw them under the bus by gutting the public option?
“It appears to be part of a Democratic “K Street Strategy” engineered by Rahm Emanuel with the consent of Barack Obama in which concessions are made to powerful special interests, like health insurance companies and drug companies, in exchange for campaign cash for Democrats. Even Republican Minority Leader John Boener is starting to complain that most health industry contributions are going to Democrats and not Republicans. The cynical calculation is that the Democratic base has nowhere else to go so the way to win elections is to outspend Republicans with special interest money. ”
““There are no liberals left to get” in the Senate, Emanuel said in an interview, shrugging off some noise from the likes of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I., Vt.) that a few liberals might bolt over the compromises made with conservative Democrats.”
“Get ‘em, then gut ‘em.”
Two rather prominent Hillary supporters and vicious Bernie-bashers own it, apologize, and say Bernie would have won. I don’t believe in grudges in the face of honest repentance — this fact-facing is all that is necessary for them to be part of the solution.
Who needs reality? Two clowns on facebook say Bernie would have won. Let’s take it and run with it. #monastyle
TO THE DISTRAUGHT LIBERAL FRIENDS:
Well, Trump was nominated, so that Mrs. Clinton would have a chance of winning. She still lost. But it was not Trumps victory, it was not the victory of the hateful things you see in him. These things were trumped up by the media to make Mrs. Clinton win, she still did not. Ask yourself why, for goodness sake!
You are the people, who deny reality, the reality of what Clinton stood for. You are caught in the matrix of propaganda. Be grateful that you lost!
Because hate did not win, racism did not win, xenophobia did not win, none of those things, you rage on about, actually won. Because it was not about those things to start with. It was about Clinton and:
CLINTON LOST!
And what she stood for in reality, which is the establishment, the power of the media, the corporations and corruption. All these things LOST!
But you chose to take her at face value, you chose to stay in the matrix of deception. Now you are bottomed out. This can be very healthy. Use your chance!
The evil corporate agenda lost! – Good did not win, by all means, but evil lost and this is more important right now.
Just get out of your liberal and progressive deception and see your system, for what it is, including dear Bernie not putting up a fight. Wake up! Be grateful.
A very bitter cup just passed you by, thanks to the people, who had the courage to vote for the unknown rather than continue with certain evil. –
And for once, see your role in the world. Not through the rosy glasses of American exceptionalism, but in the clear and stark light of reality.
Clinton stands for war, terror, regime change, embargoes, oppression, extortion, – and all on behalf of the corporate elite, not even on behalf of the common American people.
Be grateful, that enough Americans were wiser and more responsible than you were, getting caught up in the petty narrative of your spoiled liberal minds.
Teju Cole: A Time for Refusal A genius essayist. Looking at a play:
How, how on Earth, could so many normalize the sudden fact of horned rhinoceroses?
Or as the less literary Glenn Greenwald tweeted:
Well done, Teju Cole!
Oddly (?), a friend wrote a couple of weeks ago to tell me I had to re-read “Rhinoceros” in the context of what we could see was an increasingly-possible Trump victory.
So, now we shall see: is resistance futile?
Christopher Hitchens described the essence of American politics as ‘Populism manipulated by Elitism’, in ‘the false rebel’s clothing of popular rebellion’.
This was written with Bill Clinton in mind but applies equally well to Donald Trump.
THANK YOU. This article covers it all and explains- with amazing articulation- what caused these election results.
@Glenn Greenwald – You’re right on one thing, there were very many in the UK voted Brexit exactly BECAUSE they were so irritated with the numb-brained accusation that “those who sympathise with Brexit are xenophobic, racist, Little Englanders living in the 1950s”.
The smug “elite” (ho ho) thought they were smarter than the general population – but they were wrong. Long live democracy!
This cannot be the postmortem of the election. If you believe Bernie would have beaten Trump, you are delusional. The right is begging to run against a tax and spend self described socialist who they will brand a communist. He would have unified the Republicans quicker than HRC.
Instead look at the real issue. For the first time in my life, I have seen Democrats overreach for the last 2 years. Expending political capital on issues like BLM and transgender bathrooms. This result wasn’t just economic populism. It was social. White people are a majority in this nation and are tired of being told they are on the wrong side of history, and feel their was of life is being attacked by orientalism. If they dems response is to go left and talk more about patriarchy, rape culture, and elect a Muslim head of the party God bless us.
Yes demographics are changing, but in concentrated cities not all over. Also progressive ideas do not speak to most black voters who the dems need in the rust belt. The winning formula is a Joe Biden type, I’m sorry, it is still a center right country. Embrace that concept and the look for solutions. She ran a bad campaign against someone who was she could have beaten if she spent less time talking about sexual assault and more time in Detroit and Milwaukee at black churches.
You are entirely wrong, as virtually all exit polls show.
The only thing Bernie got right was Glass-Steagall. Hillary didn’t even get THAT right.
You are a Trump supporter and are therefore disallowed from moral standing to have a valid political opinion.
One minute, the Trumpsters are a working class movement sticking it to the arrogant elites, the next, they are too morally depraved and idiotic to “have a valid political opinion.”
You’re a crazy weather vane in a blizzard. Take some valium.
I’d like to have a better understanding of perception versus reality when it comes to the economic circumstances of many of the Trump voters. Are they really worse off than in 2012? How so? And what did they expect from an Obama presidency that he didn’t deliver? Do they fault Republican obstructionism? How do they expect a Trump presidency will improve their economic fortunes?
I largely agree with everything you say. However, there were lots of factors, and the evidence does seem clear that Russia working on behalf of Trump was one of them.
I am a liberal and I am very much not anti-immigrant. However, I think the Left has done an abysmal job of addressing real fears based not on statistics but on lived experience.
There is a lot of work to be done on many fronts.
– Trump voter, having a “what’s a Brexit?” moment.
I’m beginning to hear this refrain from the many family members that voted for Trump. The ones that have gay/trans children, who, astonishingly, as their parent are just now getting an inkling that choosing a president and vice-president isn’t just like choosing a favorite sport team.
The ones that spend more time worrying about where to eat-out on Friday night and what movie to see afterward than they do looking into what positions their
quarterbackpresident/vice-president actually hold…you know, in real life.The ones that haven’t voted on 30 years, who registered en-masse to make sure that Trump got elected.
The ones who finally convinced me after hearing all this from them last month that Trump will actually pull this thing off.
I’ve gotten phone calls already from my kids wondering what the hell to do to get ready for living in Trumpland. They and their significant others concerns range from how to stockpile hormones for transgender therapy to how to ensure quality birth control and health care for themselves and those they love.
I don’t have answers for a lot of this.
I just spent an hour sobbing with my closest friend. Her 50 yr-old son voted for Trump. She’s convinced he will soon understand why that was so wrong. He holds all the usual rightwing, white male grievances but is not a fascist. (She wants me to shut up online now that Trump will have the NSA and FBI, and I know I should. I’m no hero, I don’t think.)
How many will wake up to the reality of Trump, and will they even do it in time to make a difference? Republicansand Democrat officeholders, as well as the media, are NORMALIZING Trump as if this were just any other transition into the Oval Office.
After assuring us Trump was Hitler and so we “had to” vote for HRC, now they all — including her — speak about giving the man his chance, peaceful transitions of power & etc. This is insane.
Mona, It is not insane, but rational. This man must be given a chance to act positively for the country. Once we see where he will go (and his past rhetoric, I do not think is a guide), then the counter movements must rally. The jury is still out.
You are desperately wrong.
What do you actually propose to do other than watchful waiting?
Agree with you. Not a good time to be Aghast.
“If Clinton is nominated and it comes to a choice between Clinton and Trump, in a swing state, a state where it’s going to matter which way you vote, I would vote against Trump, and by elementary arithmetic, that means you hold your nose and you vote Democrat. I don’t think there’s any other rational choice.” –noam chomsky: democracy now
Is Chomsky also on your deranged hit list because you refuse to hold accountable the garbage vultures who supported and voted for Trump?
You traffic in fallacies, failed reading comprehension and just irrational spewing. To the extent I can glean your point this time, I believe I answered it here.
Because you are both irrational and unreasonable, and not fact-based, I shall henceforth be substantively ignoring you. I shall reply, if at all, only to state that I ignore you and why.
It’s a free country, Mona, though I’ll certainly miss the lively pastime of exposing your frothing lunacies.
I’ll leave you with a few more facts for you to dishonestly ignore:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/1/21/1471660/-Republicans-are-trying-to-help-Bernie-Sanders-win-and-it-s-not-because-they-like-his-message
Emphasis added.
I have been trying to say this one way or another for the whole damn election. To see people crying over Hillary Clinton’s loss is a huge aggravation. How can they not even know the horrific damage she has done across the globe, and what she planned to do?
The election is over and Donald Trump is the President-Elect of the United States of American and the Republicans control both Houses of Congress.
Firstly it seems that Democrats would be wise to accept this fact and follow the wise counsel of Hillary Clinton and give Donald Trump a chance.
Secondly, Congressional Elections will be held in two years.
This will give time to soberly and objectively assess why the Democrats lost and rather than demonize the Republicans assess what their own shortcomings were that lead to such a stunning defeat.
The Democratic Party must, in the name of “Diversity,” appeal to millions of white Ango-Saxon Americans who rightly or wrongly feel that their heritage is under attack and are forgotten by the Democrats.
Only then can a policy agenda can be set forth to appeal for their vote in an effort to take back control of the Senate and gain seats in the House of Representatives.
Within this process perhaps the most heart wrenching question Democrats must ask is:
“Why did 42% of American women vote for Donald Trump?”
The loss is painful and the future appears to be bleak but the darkest hour is always before dawn.
Bitterness, recriminations and disrespect for the President Elect will not yield productive fruit.
Only deep reflection, acceptance of the current reality and a thoughtful and prayerful day by day and step by step development of a Democratic Platform designed to appeal to the segments of our society who feel disenfranchised will get the Democratic Party and nation on a path to healing.
+1 Lewis! My sentiments exactly.
Still, it’ll be hard to stomach utterances from Palin, Newt, Giuliani & the Trump children. I play bass guitar. Time to really woodshed these next 2 years.
I *could* be wrong, but, I sense Trump is SO deep-in over his head, he knows it and is regretting ever running.
But let’s see if he’ll make America White (sorry, GREAT) Again!
“Bitterness, recriminations and disrespect for the President Elect will not yield productive fruit.”
Why not? It worked for the Republicans. Trump literally launched his political career specifically by disrespecting the president elect – aka birtherism. I’m sick of Dems always playing by Marquess of Queensbury rules and getting kicked the nuts.
Clueless Mona would have us believe that workers losing ground to corrupt, ultra wealthy parasites who stiff them for work they’ve contracted, who oppose minimum wage increases or any form of worker protection, and who sent them to have their faces blown off in Iraq and Afghanistan would elect the poster child for these vile policies as a means to better their social and economic lot.
It’s laughable.
What? To whom do you refer as “the poster child for these vile policies?”
Who? I thought that was clear. I’m talking about the tireless advocate for the America’s downtrodden who is packing his cabinet with former Bush scum; the principled anti-interventionist who has already caused weapons stocks to SOAR and who intends to appoint the architect of America’s global gulag of torture chambers to the head of the CIA.
Please try to follow the news, if you can.
And you don’t think the candidate in the just-conducted election who actually participated, as a legislator, cabinet member, etc. in this oppression, grinding down and deployment as cannon fodder makes a better poster child for all of that?
So what? Before Trump was even a viable candidate, let alone, the leading Republican candidate, Bernie was beating the pavement every day on behalf of these very people. Where was the groundswell of support for him among disenfranchised Republican working class people? Fucking non-existent. If they really are who they say they are–hard-working people whose primary goal is a better America, with opportunity for all, why did they wait until Trump showed up before falling madly in love with their candidate and propelling this Nazi idiot into the White House? It’s not adding up.
But you FUCKWIT, they just did vote for him. This was predicted by many. Greenwald wrote of this danger last February, and Keith Ellison said it on ABC, only to have Stepahanpoulous literally laugh in his face.
You deluded freak, this was note remotely “laughable.” It turns out to be all too real. Brexit showed it and the stupid neoliberal fucks refused to accept that. Because it was “Hillary’s turn.” [gag]
The DNC played with fire on behalf of that Wall St. whore (“Pied Piper” strategy), and fucked us all.
Lay off the bath salts. You’re starting to sound like Salzman.
Clueless rykart sarcastically spews:
A good deal of it, yes. Thomas Frank in the Guardian, Donald Trump is moving to the White House, and liberals put him there, my emphasis:
The Podesta emails reveal Hillary and her team PURPOSELY pushing the media to promote Trump (the “Pied Piper” strategy) because they thought he’d be easier to beat than, say, Jeb Bush.
So yes, liberal are very much to blame.
I get it, Mona. You believe Dennis Kucinich would have won the election instead of losing all 50 states, as sane members of the species know that he would. You’re delusional.
Non sequiturs/ad hominems are fallacies. They do not begin to rebut all that I documented above.
My “delusional” status — or lack thereof — is not a substantive rebuttal to my comment, and/or to all the other evidence of DNC/liberal culpability.
The implications of your argument are clear, aren’t they? Absent DNC corruption, malfeasance, arrogance and indifference to the plight of the middle class, we’d have Sanders, Kucinich, Stein or Noam Chomsky in the White House today. I call that thinking what it plainly is: delusional.
I call your argument what it plainly is: attacking a straw man, and a particularly inept construction of a straw man, at that.
Democrat need to pull their heads out of their *sses.
In 2008, HRC lost the primary to Obama. In retrospect, this now seems like a foreshadowing event. The Democrat electorate voted to have a 2 year newbie senator from Illinois as their candidate rather than the stagnant Party Loyalist (HRC). And since she was clearly rejected then, her only option was to steal it from Sanders.
It’s time for the New Democrats (Corporate Democrats) to purge themselves for the Corporate wing of the Party and get back to remembering who they represented 30 years ago before Bill Clinton’s election. That’s the same folks reeling from NAFTA and Globalization; Unions, Students, the Middle Class, Minorities, the Working Poor and the Poor.
Personally i find the people thinking O-bomb-ya as a wonderful president are the same unthinking liberal minority who supported Hillary. Need i point out that the last couple months found that Hillary couldn’t fill a bathroom if she gave everyone a free gallon of beer at her events while Trump was having standing room only in venues of tens of thousands.
Trump isn’t loved by everyone, but Hillary – and in my experience to a slightly lower degree – Obama – are very disliked.
Obama really did nothing good for we the people. Nothing i can see. As the meme says (for those idiots going to say “Obamacare” – “I used to not be able to afford health insurance. Now i can’t afford it, but i get fined for the IRS for not being able to do so”
Like most successful candidates i suspect Trump will believe he has a mandate in every one of his platform issues. What we wanted (i voted 3rd party because rep/dem are both totally political whores to the rich and can’t support them at all) was some protection for our country. A breathing space to keep the “elite” (objectionable term – they are the antithesis of elite and i can irrefutably prove it in an unfortunately somewhat long post if desired) attacks at bay and recover our footing for our counter attack.
Going to be hard w/Trump because his tax break for the rich (never, ever worked for we the people) his corporate worship, his STUPID pro nuke power and petro stances, etc. This just keeps those elite in power and pulling his strings. Gotta fight that NOW.
Republican turnout was similar to past years. Dem turnout was significantly lower. In my view this is a failure to galvanize beyond the base to defeat the known issues with GOP values. The missing 20 million Dem voters felt this very wealthy White woman was more concerned with her moderates than with them. DNC failed on all levels with this read. White privilege. White Supremacy. White feminism. It works on both Dems and Repubs.
Glenn,
I use to read you back when it was just a blogspot. Haven’t followed you much during the Snowden days, but kept you on twitter. Anyway, there is a shorter version of what you have been saying. Link: http://www.mediaite.com/online/here-are-some-hard-truths-for-liberals-currently-in-full-tilt-freakout-mode/
An EXCELLENT article. Well written. Well thought out!
I totally agree with Mr. Greenwald’s analysis of the bankruptcy of Clintons and the Democratic Party. However, I don’t understand why he and The Intercept have been far more critical of her than Donald Trump! He will have no one obstructing him from massively lowering taxes on the 1% and bankrupting the entire nation, not to even mention what he might do militarily if someone damages his fragile ego. Plus, what kind of idiots will he appoint to the Supreme Court? It’s all completely disheartening and I didn’t even mention our incredibly dumb and hopelessly antiquated electoral college.
Well, this is (a bit) surprising):
https://twitter.com/frankthorp/status/797061499235794944
Schumer seems o have a better grasp of what it will take to keep the creaking corpse of the party shambling along for just a little bit longer. I hope Ellison gets in there and proceeds to kick them all in the teeth.
Actually, I would say that it’s more than a bit surprising. Keith Ellison and Chuck Schumer are poles apart in the Dem wing of the One Party. If he takes the Chair and starts kicking butt, Friend of Hill ‘n Bill, Wall Street Chuck should be at the head of the line.
Yes, I don’t know what is behind Schumer’s decision to promote Ellison for DNC chair. There has to be a catch, or something.
Maybe Ellison is an Obama-like whore who says one thing and then ends up doing what those in power want..
I know America, along with much of the world, is freaking out over Trump. But articles like this one aren’t terribly helpful:
I completely sympathize with where they are coming from…but…
Let me get this straight, they are asking this of Obama? Obama, the same Obama, who’s first measure as Senator, upon learning of illegal telecom spying, was to vote to legalize it? The same Obama who’s actions as President when faced with the reality of a predecessor who had kidnapped, tortured and killed prisoners was to say that accountability would take the form of, not prosecutions, but would instead be him looking forward not backward?
The Democrats could have done any of those things on Obama’s day one as president. I cannot emphasize this enough: Obama didn’t want to.
So why would Obama upend any part of the entire spying/torture/invasion apparatus now, at the end of his term? Obama will learn to live with Trump just as he warmed to Bush, CNN will soon discover whatever new balance of coverage works for their advertisers. And Americans, most of them will not threaten power and their irrelevance will protect them from any more spying than they are already subjected to under Obama.
So don’t hyperventilate, Bush didn’t torture you to death personally, and most likely Trump won’t either. But…
If you want a government that values civil liberties, vote for one. If the Democrats want to be that government, choose someone like Bernie Sanders as leader, not someone like Clinton who, at the eleventh hour adopts some of Sanders’ popular talking points, and then sends emails around mocking the Sanders wing of the party.
Anyway American progressives, what do they say? Crisis = opportunity. The Dems are down, wrestle control of the party from their cold dead hands, or the lesson they will learn…in fact I’m already hearing it…is that Clinton was “too progressive…should have run further to the right”.
LEGACY.
Barack Obama is many things, but stupid isn’t among them and he very much cares what history says about him.
All over, people are writing and saying his “look forward, not backward” and declining to prosecute the torturers paved the way for Trump to go mad with it. Lee Fang is reporting here that Trump is considered torture architect, Jose Rodriguez, to head the CIA. Obama let him off scott free.
Trump is going toi jndo everything Obama did including his signature Affordable Care Act. Protecting his legacy as best he can is all he has left.
I know you know all this, but allow me to go on a healthcare rant Mona…..
Ah yes the affordable care act….that is not so affordable to many people (and Trump voters) Premiums went from 400 to 800, 1200-1800 for some families.
You know what the premium is on healthcare in Single Payer countries….let me get my calculator…..carry the nine, divide by seven…got it! The premiums for single payer in other countries is….ZERO.
Obama’s affordable healthcare legacy was in jeopardy the day he betrayed healthcare activists, abandoned the pursuit of the system he himself described as the best, and passed a law forcing everyone to either pay a small fine, or sign up to increasingly expensive, coverage (that doesn’t cover enough)
But legacy-wise Obama shouldn’t worry, even Nixon was welcomed back into public respectability after his law-breaking. But asking Obama to turn on the NSA? The CIA? Might as well ask Obama to disembowel himself. His legacy doesn’t need it, Obama is massively popular, and more importantly, he doesn’t want to do it.
>”Trump is going toi jndo everything Obama did …”
toi jndo is one way to say it, Mona.
It could be said that I’m a bit, shall we say, unnerved? It’s gonna be reflected in my typing.
Would that your typing skills were the only thing that had gone monstrously awry.
For all the bitter acrimony between Trump and the Republican leadership, there was one area where they were in complete accord: wouldn’t it be fabulous if Bernie Sanders became the Democratic nominee:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/1/21/1471660/-Republicans-are-trying-to-help-Bernie-Sanders-win-and-it-s-not-because-they-like-his-message
I thought it was some new kind of political martial art. ;-}
Who’s the Fascist?
by the brilliant BAR columnist and editor Margaret Kimberley
http://www.blackagendareport.com/who's_the_fascist%3F
Despite any shortfalls Secretary Clinton may or may not have, I thought the Democratic platform this election season was one of the best it’s ever been (thanks to the pressure from Bernie Sanders, whom I supported in the primary), far superior to the Republican platform and the majority of American voters thought the same, if we look to the number of votes cast. Clinton got the plurality. This election result is not a resounding victory for Republicans or the real estate ‘mogol’, cum reality tv star who will soon be occupying the White House.
I do not buy the media narrative that this was an election about change, blah, blah, blah, of people being fed up with the elites, blah, blah, blah. If this was really what this was about , why then are the results so disparate when broken down by ethnicity and age cohort? A bad economy affects everyone with some being hit harder than others. It is not precisely the voters who supported Trump who should be the most aggrieved as their incomes on average are higher than the median.
And what about this being the first election without the protections of the Voting Rights Act? What about people being removed en masse from the voter rolls? What about the lack of equipment in certain precincts that caused long lines and long waits? What about all that the voter id stuff? Might this account for the absence of some voters, rather than lack of voter enthusiasm?
And the media, grabbing on to every little horrible thing that guy said on Twitter. We really know nothing about the president elect who did not win the popular vote, unless we read Wayne Barret or David Cay Johnston. We know nothing. But what we do know has a lot of people feeling like they’ve been left with a target on their backs. I’m talking about a lot of minorities here.
Now is not the time for hand-ringing and woulda, shoulda, coulda Bernie Sanders. I love Bernie Sanders’s ideas but he was not a perfect candidate either. Now is not the time to criticise past actions that can’t be taken back. We face real urgency here. The normalisation of this media created Frankenstein is now under way. These people want to do worse than waterboarding. They aren’t going to close Guantanamo, they’re going to put more people in it. Giuliani has said that he sees BLM as a terrorist group. They are considering the “drill-baby-drill” Alaskan as a possible secretary of the interior. He wants to ask TransCanada to apply again for the Keystone pipeline permit. For what? Spite?
Hillary Clinton was a normal, run-of-the-mill, middle of the road candidate who if pressured by her electorate probably would have made more progress on things that are important to them. The other guy we have seen doesn’t really like dissent all that much and he doesn’t believe in the rule of law and he admires another guy who just locks people up that he doesn’t agree with. I hope we don’t start to see that in the United States. And yeah, Hillary Clinton has her faults but I don’t think if I protest at her White House that I’ll end up in Guantanamo. I don’t see her questioning people’s citizenship. If the TV personality questioned President Obama’s citizenship, do you really think he and his administration and law enforcement will give a hoot about that of some loser regular person, who to him is probably ugly or fat or handicapped or the wrong color or religion any other number of things for which this guy has expressed distaste?
Ok, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa. What terrible people we liberals are, woe is me, Hillary is just awful, lamentations, whatever, but this “I told you so” opinion journalism really doesn’t remedy anything. And again, I thought the Democratic platform was pretty damn good. People just had to make sure they continued to hold elected officials’ feet to the fire to implement it. Now we’ve got nothing, some guy who doesn’t believe in climate change and won’t give a damn about any of the issues many of us hold dear; reproductive freedom, religious freedom, gay rights, civil rights, human rights, the environment, prison reform, clean air, clean water, reducing CO2, healthcare. The whispers about his cabinet selections so far make me shudder. So great, Glenn, with this article, I guess you’ve sure shown us, given us a good finger-wagging, so glad you told us so. Yeah. I can really do a lot with that.
David Dayen will be joining the Nation for a new project (via email):
In light of the trend of this thread, I especially agree with this:
I look forward to his, and other’s, analyses of this moving shitpile.
No doubt, President-elect Trump will try to ‘make his own reality’ … but I think it remains to be seen if we will all be left to follow it.
Fascinating read: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/11/national-security-shift-us-policy-trump-presidency
“[] …In August, 50 Republican foreign policy and national security officials signed an open letter warning that Trump “would be the most reckless president in American history”.”
I don’t blame any of those listed. I blame myself and those like me. I didn’t get involved, beyond voting in the Dem primary and then the general. Thought things were inevitable that, as it turned out, were not. I avoided engaging with campaigns that I found distasteful and made me uncomfortable. Never again will I exercise such privilege.
A wave of attacks on Muslims and other minorities reported in the wake of the election.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/us/police-investigate-attacks-on-muslim-students-at-universities.html
But please don’t denigrate the Trump-supporting sewer filth who put this monster in office, spread hate and stupidity from coast to coast and consigned our world to irreversible climate change and the extinction of thousands of species.
It’s all the fault of “liberal elites.
Just to point out that the article mentions a Muslim woman who reports being grabbed chokingly by her hijab, and another student who was spat at by two students in a pickup truck from a nearby college. There’s also people yelling at each other, high school students being jerks and chanting about “white power”, and many people being scared and offensive.
Yes, intimidation can be an attack just like violence can, and there’s no acceptable line, but hyperbole can evoke unwarranted fear, and a drumbeat of that can be an attack, too. I’m sick of people broadly condemning each other and letting fear magnify the divide.
And I’d mention that we’ve already consigned our world to irreversible climate change and extinctions, but that just makes me depressed.
Trump’s rallies were white power rallies and he has promised to pack his administration with white power hoods, starting with his likely chief of staff Steve Bannon.
I’m sick of people NOT broadly condemning this sickening manifestation of Nazism on US soil.
I don’t know what dogwhistle you heard (not familiar with all the codes of that movement), but I didn’t hear anything I recognized as Nazism. Yeah, I think that the xenophobia Trump is the standard-bearer of is based on underlying racism as well as their purported “noble” motive: a reaction to economic disempowerment. But that whiff is like older white guys tend to have, specifically, and our culture has, in general, and is not just a Trump and his rallys thing.
The few times I’ve actually heard anyone who is part of the “white power” group talk, they’ve practically oozed that garbage in everything they say; it’s obvious in every position they take. It’s not exactly a worldview that frees one from close-minded dogma, and that comes across.
Didn’t hear anything near that virulent — Nazism — from Trump, or anyone his campaign favored. Maybe Trump had the number ’88’ tattooed on his forehead (I know that code at least), but I didn’t see it, nor miss it when attempting to understand him.
(Please don’t think I’m trying to absolve them of ANYTHING here).
Hadn’t heard that about Steve Bannon, or much of anything really; I’ll be wary; thanks for the heads-up.
Trump is making the architect of the global torture program the head of the CIA. He drew his following by identifying Muslims as the new Untermenschen to be hated, feared and persecuted. The pogroms have already started and he’s not even in office yet. The fact of the matter is, the US strain of Nazism is far more dangerous than its German predecessor. The German Nazis were incredibly limited. They faced severe opposition, which eventually attacked and destroyed them. The US Nazi regime that has just seized power and which is nuclear-equipped, has absolutely NO credible opposition, either within the country or from foreign powers. It enjoys a totalitarian control of the planet at this point and the chances they won’t use it to slaughter vast numbers of people and consolidate their power is absurd.
“[regime] … has absolutely NO credible opposition, either within the country or from foreign powers. It enjoys a totalitarian control of the planet at this point and the chances they won’t use it to slaughter vast numbers of people and consolidate their power is absurd.”
And here I think we’ve reached the overlap of our viewpoints. I see this as true, also, although I label the actors and timeline differently, and I’m not convinced that the current political circus indicates that any significant power has been newly seized.
The crypto-Nazi regime you describe would, necessarily, have a hidden belief system, one that goes beyond the outer white-power dogma. This would act to bind and conceal the inner elite, similar to the German Nazi’s occult Wotanism. I’d be interested in hearing what you think of this, but I don’t want to provoke.
“Democrats have already begun flailing around trying to blame anyone and everyone they can find — everyone except themselves — for last night’s crushing defeat of their party.”
Have you been reading the same essays I have? Blaming Democrats for Trump is one of the recurring themes.
Glenn and fellow Intercepters:
See James Petras’ “US Public Opinion Speaks to Anti-Militarism, the Electorate Votes for Warmongers”
http://petras.lahaine.org/b2-img/petras_warmongers.pdf
From the intro:
Nonsense. Look at the Bush V. Kerry election as one of endless examples. The universal consensus is that Kerry was “Swift Boated.” What does that mean? It means that the opposition launched a series of TV spots about Kerry and Vietnam. Each of them prominently showed Kerry in anti-war protests and also giving Congressional testimony about atrocities in Vietnam. THAT is what destroyed his candidacy, because the American filth will NOT tolerate an anti-war candidate. EVER.
LOL, John Kerry.
What a compelling response.
John Kerry and anti-war candidate? Not only a mean-spirited bigot but a a poorly-informed one.
What John Kerry Really Did in Vietnam
Haven’t you figured out, yet, rykart, that this forum is populated by a large number of extraordinarily well-informed participants who have spent years and decades studying and analyzing the subjects typically under discussion — and that slipshod thinking and specious or unsupported claims are going to be torn to shreds, regularly?
Way to dodge the subject. The Republicans destroyed Kerry as a candidate by referencing his earlier anti-war activity. That’s what turned the public against him. Sorry you’re allergic to facts. In Arizona, they just re-elected former presidential candidate John McCain, who bragged about dropping napalm on “gooks” (his word). He’s constantly referred to as a hero in this country, while Eugene McCarthy was lambasted for running on a platform of ending the US genocide in Indochina. You have no case, (but I gather that’s a familiar condition that doesn’t cause you much anxiety).
Now you’re just being stubborn and ridiculous. The issue was not what Kerry did or did not do in Vietnam. The issue was the manner in which he was disgraced in the eyes of the public. Go back and fucking LOOK at the swiftboat ads. They all show Kerry at anti-war protests. The Republicans reckoned—correctly, as it happens—that that would not sit well with a majority of Americans.
I’m sorry you hate the documentary record so much but is aint going to change to suit your ludicrous precepts.
Glenn writes:
Because of the overlap in objectives, because both the major capitalist parties serve the ruling class, the Democrats didn’t lose with Trump’s victory. Look at the way the POTUS and HRC have implored the public to accept Trump and unify–which are more noble sounding than the real message: to STFU, obey, and conform ’cause the jackboots are here.
In this case as in every Presidential election, it was the the 99% who lost, who did not have a ground game and who lacked organization. Glenn’s advice applies to us.
In this case as in every Presidential election, it was the the 99% who lost, who did not have a ground game and who lacked organization. Glenn’s advice applies to us.
Yes. Very much so.
In other words, in seeking an explanation for the rise of Nazism, we should examine the shortcomings of Jews and their failure to make themselves attractive to non-Jewish citizenry.
In addition to your strong penchant for fallacies, you appear to have a reading comprehension problem. VJ wrote ” it was the the 99% who lost, who did not have a ground game…Glenn’s advice applies to us.”
In terms of analogies to Hitler’s Germany, VJ wrote of all German citizens, save the out-and-out Nazis.
” it was the the 99% who lost, who did not have a ground game…Glenn’s advice applies to us.”
Interesting. I don’t hear the Trump filth saying “we lost out this election, like every election. Lacking any good alternative, we had to vote for Trump, but he really isn’t what we wanted.”
They are absolutely ecstatic. It’s the Second Coming for these filth.
Around 75% of the population eligible to vote DID NOT vote Trump. the same applies to Clinton. Trump did not ‘win’ because more people ‘became racist’, for example. The majority of the population wanted neither. That support’s Glenn’s premise here. However there is still this notion that loads of people used Trump as some sort of protest vote – whereas it would seem more people stayed away in protest, though the old – and inaccurate – ‘apathetic lazies’ claim as an attempt to explain away the low voter turnout is more than likely going to take ascendance in the various ‘analysis’ articles, I will wager.
The figure of eligible voters who did not vote is less than 50% not 75%. Still shocking, but nothing will change the fact that a huge subset of the US population who voted for Trump are essentially Nazi vermin. Nor are they a new phenomenon. They are the same filth who elected Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, who cheered the Iraq holocaust and the destruction of Indochina, among so many other barbarities.
The POTUS and Democratic party is not your friend.
See:
“From Monster to Mr. President Elect: Democrats grovel before Trump”
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/11/11/pers-n11.html
From the aftershock and denial of this election, it is VERY clear that neither the Media OR the Democratic Party have the first clue of their major roles of bring Trump into the White House. They are BOTH in COMPLETE DENIAL. The republicans are a different story. They knew exactly what they were doing. I don’t know which is worse. Those in total denial (Media/Democrats) or those with clearly malicious intent. (Republicans.)
hmm. Perhaps it’s a marriage of the malicious voracious intenders preying upon the wilderbeasts in denial to keep the food cycle going?
The republicans are a different story. They knew exactly what they were doing.
Though it may seem so on the surface due to the stunning depth and breadth of their wins across the country this election, I’m not so sure of this.
A cursory examination of Mitch “Yurtle the Turtle” McConnell’s facial expressions across the duration, as superficial as it may seem, would suggest rather that they got luckier than they could have imagined in their wildest power wet dreams.
I think that, after exhausting every possible avenue for ridding themselves of Trump, short of falling on their own tiny daggers and blowing up the party in entirety, they resigned themselves to riding the wave and just trying to survive with some of their superstructure intact. They, like everyone else tied to polling with an umbilical cord, thought they were in for defeat. When that didn’t happen, they were more than happy to pick their fleabitten mantle back up and toss it around their shoulders in the most odious of “We meant to do that!” manners.
Even Trump has admitted that he didn’t expect to win like this. He has, however, jumped right into the task of assigning responsibilities, many to former Bush criminals – that might have been avoided had Obama actually lived up to his promises to prosecute, or even look for, criminal behavior – people who McConnell and the rest of his odious compatriots might not have turned to in first light with a different candidate but who they are happy to have back in the saddle after everyone believed their banishment permanent and complete.
The only thing left to see – and they should be ready for this because he’s proven capable of anything, especially the least expected thing – is if Trump will actually try to honor those promises he made to the electorate that would involve undercutting McConnell’s version of the party’s agenda. They had reasons to fight to get rid of him and those reasons haven’t gone away. So now we wait to see if Trump will, indeed, pull us back from some of our trade deals (something he will have direct authority for as President), reduce our involvement in foreign interventions, etc.
If Trump actually does any of those things, bucking longtime party hardlines, then there may yet be a silver shadenfreudian lining to be seen. If not, if he comepletely abandons those promises and becomes the consummate Republican asshole-on-high, then I’m guessing he’ll have trouble being more than just a one-term President. Nothing to do but wait though, at this point.
Obama is still looking into that.
I think Obama has moved on to the much more fruitful task of looking into donors for his Presidential library. Obama’s in full-on cash-in mode now. Did his do and ready and willing to move on and get back to a life largely outside of the public eye…..but I could be wrong.
Obama had a fruitful meeting with President-elect Trump.
*you just can’t make this shit up!
As a child of the woods and hollers, you know better than most that some fruit is poisonous shit that’ll kill ya. :-s
GG: Great interview on Democracy Now.
There was one poll that consistently found Trump wining the election. This was the USC/LA Times poll.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-usc-latimes-poll-20161108-story.html
Mona, you’ve been abusive toward me for some time now. I think I’ve always treated you with courtesy and respect, even when we’ve been in disagreement. I can’t fucking sleep, I don’t know how to fix the reply function, and I really don’t give a shit if this annoys you.
What are you willing to own, Trump voter?
Autocracy: Rules for Survival, by Masha Gessen, who has “lived in autocracies most of my life, and have spent much of my career writing about Vladimir Putin’s Russia.” It’s trending on Twitter.
This is not hopeful and I should not have read it before trying to sleep.
What are you willing to own?
In the poorer quarters, where the ragged people go, I think the clincher was Clinton’s last ditch push of Obama’s economic prosperity for all and the near ‘full employment’ crazy talk.
*Again, gator, it gives me no pleasure to own some of that.
@MONA
I chose not to vote for candidate Sanders in the primary because I preferred the other candidate, Clinton.
You likewise chose not to vote for candidate Clinton in the general because you preferred the other candidate, Trump.
Why not just admit it?
Quick story. Not long after the primaries concluded, Pedinska and I had a conversation. I said I would be voting for HRC in the general; she said she would not be. When she suggested that my vote for Clinton meant I would have a degree of culpability in any heinous actions taken by Clinton as president, I agreed. I said I was willing to own that. Then I asked her what she was willing to own if she withheld her vote from Clinton and Trump won. I no longer recall her answer, but I believe the conversation ended on a friendly enough note.
Well, here we are. It’s real now.
What are you willing to own?
And everything I have to say to you about that immoral and misguided action I already posted.
Please use a different browser or otherwise resolve this issue with the reply function. Constantly replying with freestanding (and rather redundant) posts is clogging the board.
My answer was that responsibility for a direct vote, which indicates, at minimum, acceptance of actions which ensue (even if one doesn’t directly approve of all of them) is different in kind from a vote for a third party, which demonstrably indicates adamant rejection of both major party’s candidates actions/positions. And that rejection both parties was the first necessary step on the only viable path for us to build other options than the toxic system we now have.
It’s a subtle, yet in my mind significant difference that, IIRC, you accepted at the time, which was why we were able to move beyond it. You were also willing to re-examine your choice in light of me pointing out that HRC intended to keep the draft open, and extend it’s grasping power to young girls – I believe you have two daughters? – as an option for future military needs. I recall you being surprised to hear that, and open to including that in your calculations.
At this point, with this particular monstrosity in front of us, I’m not sure that anguished recriminations will accomplish anything other than dividing us further. I think that is a mistake. I think we should be looking at what’s happening with the transition occurring before us an planning how best to disrupt it and the noxious shit it will entail.
Many of us have had long, fruitful relationships on this and other commenting boards. We’ve learned from each other even when we’ve disagreed in profound ways (as now). Even when we disagree on significant grounds, in general, we all are fumbling towards the same wishes for ourselves, our loved ones and our country. We may define the pathways differently but wrt the large picture we are, most of us, in agreement on some very large concepts. I think it would be in the interests of those over-arching objectives to focus on them at this time.
I find it exhausting to argue with people who, in general, I consider friends and allies. The losses entailed dig far bigger holes in my soul than the one it takes to swallow and tuck my tongue into. It’s a bit gentler to agree to disagree and move beyond to something where we can help each other. I find myself increasingly in need of this sort of forgiveness and kindness. Maybe I’m just getting old. ;-}
I like the moral searching implied by taking partial responsibility for the actions of a politician that are enabled by your vote.
But please don’t take it too far — you (and everyone else) actually owe them NOTHING. In fact it’s not even fair to yourself to take that burden on. Do politicians take moral responsibility for not following 100% their constituents’ guidance? No, they get their due in the next election, with more or less votes, or in an impeachment.
You’re not guilty, so no forgiveness is required. In fact the willingness you and most (many?) others here show to self-examine and see for yourselves any flaws that others may see your actions is admirable and exactly what enables healing beyond political divides.
I will now read your posts more carefully and inform you of everything I think you’re wrong about. Cheers. :)
Well, I don’t have any particular objection to moral searching, just draw my own personal moral lines in, perhaps, different places than others and that’s to be expected. I know I don’t owe them anything, it’s all the people around me who keep insisting I do that are, um, problematic. :-)
No, they get their due in the next election, with more or less votes, or in an impeachment.
They would if we actually had a multi-party system that had accountability baked into it. But we don’t. So, until we do, the only way I have of expressing my disapproval directly is by giving my vote elsewhere.
I will now read your posts more carefully and inform you of everything I think you’re wrong about.
LOL! Welcome to TI where none of us are exactly shy about doing just that. I look forward to hearing from you. :-)
You seem half-sober here, which is really enjoyable from a progressive, thanks!
Your analysis of Clinton’s weak ideological position is true enough, but I think you overestimate the importance here. She (meaning her team) was lazy with arrogant overconfidence, the disease you well note. Change 1/100 votes in PA and WI and maybe 1/1000 in MI and everything is fine; one doesn’t have to be pure or even sincere to do that, just make an effort.
No. Fuck no. Chelsea Clinton being groomed to run for Congress
To be expected. Her, the latest version of George in the Bush dynasty, etc ad nauseum. This has been with us since the beginning. The only wonder I have, and hope as well, is that the electorate is so fucking fed up with this shit that they will relegate these inbred fuckers to the same dustbin of history that seems to have (mostly) claimed the Kennedys. :-s
Yup. Absolutely.
Some of the people who voted for Trump were the people who found themselves left out after their jobs were eliminated by closed factories and coal mines or jobs moving off shore. Coal miners were angry about the environmental policies that put their employers out of business as well. But I have read that many people who voted for Trump were college educated white men and women who are not particularly disadvantaged by losing factory or mining jobs. The largest percentage being white men and college educated men. It doesn’t seem to bother these voters for Trump, educated or not, that he is a wealthy elite but according to your argument it bothered them that Clinton was. BTW, Are politicians supposed to walk around in sack cloth with shaved heads and begging bowls? I can’t see how it helped that there was this constant discussion of emails and FBI investigation of emails. Then right before the election this letter about more emails. Now we have a Republican President with a Republican Congress and we can reap the consequences of that.
Brilliant analysis, as usual, but I believe you slightly undermine your point by underplaying and underestimating the role of misogyny in the 30 years of vilification of Hillary, and the perception of her inherent untrustworthiness. Yes, she is one of the great beneficiaries of the elite policies that people world-wide are rejecting, and yes, she is obtuse, and scandal plagued (much of it contrived)…all this we know….but I would argue that she is no more corrupt than any of the top neo-liberal elites, and despite the importance of learning the lessons of Brexit, it is quite possible that if she were a man, she could have overcome the slim margin by which she ultimately lost.
I was not a Bernie voter. High, high intelligence and working knowledge of existing government systems and cutting edge policy is the brightest bauble for me in a candidate and to my eyes HRC had it and Bernie didn’t. One phrase in this article haunts me. Reference to the outlook of non-Bernie “traditional” Democrats as those accepting/ preferring: “technically proficient, mildly benevolent managers of elite power.”
Incredible phrase.
There was a global revolution, basically, scheduled to happen via ballot box in 2016. It was completely off the radar of mainstream media because they, like me, really appreciated “technically proficient, mildly benevolent managers of elite power”. Media elites don’t bump on the concept of elite power because they consider themselves the elites and trust themselves (narcissistically, but often quite earnestly) as good stewards of that ‘elite power’. They do not feel personally like members of the “out group”.
Even though our family grew up at or below the poverty line – free lunch program and small apartments in sketchy areas were only items on the menu – instead of resenting “elite power” in the form of wealth I wanted to ACQUIRE elite power. Instead of changing the system by which the goodies were divvied up, I opted to roll the dice on meritocracy in the hopes of tricking my way into becoming a member of the In Group.
Thus even though I consider myself smart and “woke” I did not feel the danger of systemic corrosion acutely enough to “risk” an election on a candidate like Sanders. B/C in any other year in U.S. politics for the last 50 years a Sanders platform would not have been able to draw more than 30% of the vote. And the danger of a Republican victory I deemed too awful to contemplate. Even though I agreed with most of Bernie’s platform, my judgment on his electability combined with my lack of passion for him as a candidate sealed my primary vote. Although I still firmly believe in HRC’s fundamental competence and intelligence she was the wrong candidate for the moment. Yes, she won the popular vote, but with the secret revolution brewing I am convinced now that Bernie would likely have won by 5 million+ votes.
There is one place I disagree with Greenwald. The dark irony now is that this is the one election since Goldwater in1964 where there actually WAS a radical, clear and present danger separating the Red Candidate and the Blue Candidate. I cannot agree with – though I do respect – my friends that chose to vote third party in the general election. I still believe Trump is a black swan unique danger to the entire republic. He is not equivalent to Bush or Romney he is much more dangerous. I hope we are lucky enough to stumble out of this catastrophe without many dead on the streets or in a foreign land. But the only vote I regret is my primary vote. I still can’t understand how one could look at he and Hillary and not conclude the country needed that vote from her.
But what the fuck do I know?
Apparently it’s all white women’s fault.
The real ‘shy Trump’ vote – how 53% of white women pushed him to victory
Why isn’t it the fault of the Party who told everyone to Hillary’s left (most of us) to go fuck ourselves, causing many, especially millennials, to stay home? Did these adults not know a goddam thing about human nature?
Their hubris was so great they didn’t think it would have consequences.
And now, Howard fucking Dean has announced he wants to be DNC chair and many Democrats are rallying around that preposterous idea. They simply Do. Not. Get. It.
It’s funny in a very dark way just what contortions Clinton supporters are going through to deny how off-putting their candidate actually was to anyone not predisposed to accept her unconditionally.
And yeah, they’re just rebuilding with the same useless tools!
It’s almost as if they don’t want to be effective activists on “the left” at all!
If they start shouting “kill the niggers. Kill the ragheads. Global warming is a hoax” they will be effective. If they don’t, they won’t.
Did you..like…follow the election or anything?
They may have been blindsided by the election results but they certainly “get” enough to know that they need to fight tooth and nail to keep party insiders in control of the reins of power. That’s where Dean’s candidacy comes from, as well as the grooming of Chelsea Clinton. They “get” that shit perfectly.
The ley to understanding will be what happens to Sanders’ preferred candidate for the DNC, MN Rep. Ellison. If Ellison decides to run, and loses to Dean through intra-party machinations – the same sort we saw in play during the primary – then they are deliberately choosing retaining their own relentlessly shrinking power over the well-being of the party as a whole, becaude Ellison was the ONLY one who consistently predicted Trump’s rise.
These people are willing to do whatever it takes to keep their own personal power. It is threatened in ways they never dreamed of and they will be ruthless and relentless. They get that very, very well.
“Why isn’t it the fault of the Party who told everyone to Hillary’s left (most of us) to go fuck ourselves…”
Because, Ms Thin-skinned Ego, they obviously were justified in doing so. And on that note go fuck youself. I’m OK with saying that because I know you’ll “get back at me” by politically setting yourself on fire. But hey a few neighbors houses might get caught up in the inferno too, so there’s something to pat yourself on the back about.
“Those of you with a guilty conscience [about not voting for Clinton in the general election] should deal with it rather than blaming Clinton for your poor choice of Donald Trump. Sure, you can tell your neighbors, your friends, your family, or the dark silence of history, that you didn’t vote for Trump — even when he opens the Deportation Camps … but you know. ” –Wiltmellow
Quoted for truth.
You (Mona, Pedinska, et al) had a choice. You chose Trump. Own it. And keep right on owning it, even as the darkness descends.
“You’re either with us, or you’re with the terrorists.” (G.W. Bush)
You lack moral standing to judge anyone else. You know the truth about Hillary Clinton and voted for her in the Florida primary. Subsequently, you posted a heinous, repulsive comment about the joy of meeting Hillary and actually shaking her hand. She, who chose the “Pied Piper” plan of promoting Trump to the media thinking he’d be among the easiest to beat.
Had she won, we’d be dealing with a different set of horribles, but it still would have been horrible. And that’s on you. I did all I could to seat an honest, capable person of good values in the White House. You did the opposite and had the gall to come here and revel in it.
Nothing can do for you but abject repentance.
I did not choose Trump.
I chose Stein, a woman who supported almost everything I did. Our electoral process still allows people to actually vote for people they can support. Unless and until we are actually forced at gunpoint – something I don’t think will happen because the system, as represented by the LOTE among us, is still resilient enough to yield the desired results without direct threat – I will continue to tell the major parties to go fuck themselves as they are unnacceptable. And I will work toward new choices with the young folk coming along, while still helping women cross the line at the local Planned Parenthood, protesting with the BLM folks etc.
That is what I will own. I choose to own the shreds of hope remaining. Not the darkness I had no part in choosing. Choice still matters.
Wait wait wait. I voted for Trump because I feared the consequences of his political empowerment less than I feared Hillary’s. I would have built my voting decision around idealism rather than fear, but neither candidate significantly represented my ideals.
And that was wrong, I should feel guilty? I guess I’d feel a little guilty if I closed off from the issue, let fear suppress reason. But I didn’t.
Should I feel guilty that I didn’t find some consensus of pure truth, and share with my fellow citizens? Eh, maybe, but that too-high bar would be my personal moral choice; I certainly don’t blame others for not solving that. Wouldn’t be right, since I don’t believe that political choices in a large society can always be reduced to the one correct viewpoint and doctrine.
So yeah, I kinda feel I could have just flipped a coin without looking at the ballot at all, and I wouldn’t feel any more guilty to you or anyone other than myself about it. I’d like to understand why you think I should.
Bernie would have won, Part 593
Freddie deBoer in WaPo, my emphasis. (h/t Presumptuous Insect)
The sheer naivete is mind-bending. Despite having a platform 180 degrees in opposition to everything Sanders stood for, Trump often seized the opportunity to praise Sanders, hoping against hope he’d be the nominee so that instead of fighting a close race against Hillary, he could win in a landslide. Things never reached the point where anyone seriously challenged Sanders, from either party. Had he become the Dem Nominee, Trump would have ramped up an insane, Mccarthyite attack against Sanders and the creeping communism about to engulf our matchless, capitalist garden of Eden. The public would have lapped it up. It’s worked on the dumb electorate over and over again.
Liberals just refuse to accept the fact that America is sick of crime, poverty, and the hatred of ruling class democrats. The Dems were routed and they don’t have the ability to look at themselves honestly and accept that they demonized a large racial group which makes them racists.
THIS. The DNC, Hillary team did THIS as populism sweeps the nation:
CNN opinion: Tear up the Democratic Party.
Keep staying in denial.If the progressives ever want a chance to in office again you better take a good hard look at your platform. If it involves shoving shit down our throats we don’t want maybe just maybe compromise to make it more acceptable.
That’s the problem with progressives.YOU DON”T KNOW HOW TO COMPROMISE. You suck at it hands down. It’s your way or the highway. “We like our healthcare plan so much we’re going to fine if you don’t buy into it”
Sound familiar? It should because it is exactly what you did with the ACA. Which ended up being more unaffordable than the previous way we handled healthcare.
If you come to the 2020 election with the attitude you have had the last eight years you will get routed it won’t even be close. Take a close look at what Americans want. Change your platform to suit. Throw out the radicalism in your platform. Give up your attempts to strip Americans of their gun rights. Most importantly respect the individual in every aspect. Be more respectful to differing opinions.
You lost this election because you forced America to eat a dish they did not want. This is an opportunity for you to learn that, and to learn compromise. After all without compromise our country wouldn’t even exist.
@DOUG SALZMANN
I read with interest your explanation of what “identity politics” means, and I thank you for it. If you happen to read this and have nothing better to do, I have a couple more questions. A commenter called “Jose” wrote the following in response to my initial comment on this topic:
“Abolition, women’s suffrage, the civil rights movement, and more recent protests against police brutality are all (and have to be) grounded in ‘identity politics.'”
Is Jose right? If he is, what are the implications for your earlier characterization of identity politics as a “disaster”? And if he is wrong, why is he wrong?
No, Jose is wrong. Although all of those issues affect/affected particular groups most directly, and although it is natural that the impetus for movements to correct the in justice would come from within those groups, rejection of the oppression and inequality and support for the movements was and is properly grounded in principles of fairness, justice and equality and is and has been joined by humans of all “identities.”
Anyway, the point is not really responsive to my elucidation of a definition of identity politics. Please read it again, carefully.
Recorded earlier today: LIVE: Snowden Q&A on how US Election affects your privacy, his pardon
Maisie:
Thank you ever so much for that lead to the Snowden interview. He is a world treasure and the fact that his own government would destroy him speaks volumes about the depths to which this country has fallen. All should watch this really remarkable interview. Snowden should be pardoned and made chairman of a group charged with correcting the wrongs that he has eloquently exposed.
Sister Pedinska The Wise
Except for affirmative support of Hillary Clinton at the primary stage, I judge no one in the field known as “progressives.” I’ve repeatedly said regarding the general election — almost ad nauseum — this was a morally ambiguous set of options with no clearly right one.
Also, I can extend understanding even to those who were avid Hillary supporters if they finally take an honest look at who and what Hillary is, as well as the tactics deployed on Bernie and his supporters by the Hillary Team. It is necessary for Hillary fans to do that if they are to be of any use in creating the political realignment and platform that we urgently must have.
But Hillary dead-enders, the unrepentant, cannot be involved. Not because of moral judgment, but because of their fundamental incompatibility with critical truths and goals.
Interestingly, I just read in WaPo that more Dems crossed over to vote for Trump than vice versa.
Really, I googled looking for that and didn’t run across it. But I did find WaPo saying Hillary lost in part because of the voters who stayed home.
The Hillary faction simply wouldn’t concede to the reality that she’s unpopular; the enthusiasm gap between her and Bernie was actually a chasm.
It’s here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/10/hillary-clinton-lost-bernie-sanders-could-have-won/
The rules of the game are to win the electoral vote. Clinton did lose that, and so trump will become the President. Reading about how she was crushed, etc., you would never know she actually got more votes from the electorate than Trump did.
Why does Greenwald oppose democracy and support things like the EU?
42
l am disappointed that you mindlessly condemn Hillary Clinton as a flawed candidate and corrupt among the elitists. You over look the fact that the Right has for the last thirty (yes, THIRTY) done everything in its power to bring Hillary Clinton down. How much did Ken Starr spend (70 million ?) on the fruitless Whitewater investigation. What did he find ? Nothing. How much time and money did Trey (high IQ) Gowdy spend zealously trying to find some punishable point on Benghazi ? Another seventy million. What did they find ? Nothing. The estimable Kevin McCarthy (Republican from California), gauche as he is, admitted that the purpose of the endless Benghazi hearings was to “bring Hillary’s numbers down.” And succeed they did. The inattentive masses who watch nothing but Fox and listen to Rush took up the chant: “Lock her up !” In the face of such calumny and slander, is it any wonder that the masses start believing in her “flawed” life. We have those moral midgets, Giuliani and Christie and Newt to thank for the character destruction of a superlatively qualified person. All in the interest of winning elections for a corrupt Republican Party.
Trigger warning: the following comment may contain (mild) criticisms of Mrs. Clinton.
Unemployed people tend to see the decline of American manufacturing as a problem (even though they long ago stopped looking for work and no longer qualify as unemployed). Mrs. Clinton tried to explain that corporate profits were way up as a result, since intellectual property, not manufacturing, is the new driver of American business. But the surly denizens of the rust belt failed to be comforted by this fact.
Along came Mr. Trump offering a simple diagnosis of the problem (bad trade deals and too many immigrants). And he offered simple solutions. They may not have been the right solutions and they may have been addressing the wrong problem, but that was irrelevant. People want their president to offer them a vision of the future, preferably a future with them in it. Mrs. Clinton offered only the curt observation that America was already great, at least for her and her cronies. Towards the end of her candidacy, she realized her mistake and tried to offer a vision of a nuclear war with Russia. But it was too little too late, and maybe it was the wrong vision. In any case, people had already made up their minds.
For lack of a vision, she lost an election that was easily winnable. Blaming Comey, Wikileaks, The Intercept, the Green Party, Sanders supporters, the electoral college and the American voter, not necessarily in that order, is pure scapegoating.
nothing, but nothing, is more revitalizing to the heart, mind, and soul than a short sharp nuclear war. If only we had taken it in the spirit in which it was offered, as a gift.
Certainly highlights, in sharp relief, who stood on what side of the sidelines.
If Hillary had only cast blame IN THE PROPER ORDER should would have succeeded. After visiting EVERYONE, alphabetically and individually, ala Douglas Adams, telling each exactly what burden was theirs, she would have been reveled as the pure bastion of believable ideology we all know lurks beneath the spin. Oh, if only!
This is the funniest thing I’ve read in years.
Heartfelt thanks for that, Benito!
What I don’t understand is why, after Hillary became the candidate, the left/progressive web news, like Democracynow and TYT, spent way more time criticizing her than criticizing Trump. It wasn’t even close, like after 10 minutes of critizing her, there’d be 10 sec of ” Trump is a fascist so don’t want him in”. Really ? There were only 2 choices. Is it they really wanted Trump in? Why?
As a lifelong Democrat who voted for Trump in this election, I thank you for the insightful opinion. I agree with much of what you said.
While you may not like Trump, you nailed it perfectly in saying that the globalist profiteers have been gorging on the spoils of the workers here in the U.S.
The billionaire profiteers (Silicon Valley, Wall Street, etc.) have been also shoving down the downtrodden’s workers’ throats any and all ideology they desired, and using them like Barbie and Ken dolls upon which to play games of social engineering.
Too many games. Now the games are over.
Politico: Clinton aides blame loss on everything but themselves
But this part is gobsmackingly outrageous:
Could Hillary and her team — including defenders online — possibly have been any more offensive and oppositional to Bernie and his supporters while simultaneously pandering in the most oozingly slimey terms to every stripe of wingnut? Yet they’d have us believe that the young cohort — that thinks well of Scandinavian social democracy is –is to blame for reacting as the people treated like shit which they were.
Jesus, what kind of hubris it takes to be so blind!
The hubris of the chief hog snuffling up as much from the trough as he can stuff into his overfed body.
Matt Taibbi has a good analysis in RS.
President Trump: How America Got It So Wrong
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/president-trump-how-america-got-it-so-wrong-w449783
@MONA
Tell you what. Here’s a friendly suggestion for the next time you find yourself bored with nothing important to do. Get a standard dictionary and look up the words “dishonest,” “opinion,” “fact,” “empirical,” “evidence,” “blame” and “everyone.” Memorize the definition of each, or just write them down. Then compose a written paragraph that (a) contains each of the aforesaid words, (b) pertains in some way to me, and (c) makes a lick of sense. Post the paragraph here. If you do that, and if I see it, I still have enough regard for you, even now, that I will read it and make a good faith attempt to respond to it. Good night, Mona.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jorJh8DTMVM
Seriously though, thank you for this and your other honest, searching and indispensable analysis.
Great article by Greenwald! I didn’t vote for or care for Trump, but I’ve been increasingly annoyed by indignant responses such as “How can people vote for misogyny / racism!?” as if that is the singular issue of the election.
On a side note, it’s H. “Can’t we just drone the guy?” Clinton with the proven neocon posture in regards to foreign policy, which was a big reason the progressives hated GWB. Not sure either of these candidates are benevolent enough to be in charge of a nuclear arsenal.
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said here, but it’s important to remember that Clinton and the Democrats were not “demolished” in this election. Not even remotely. Hillary won the popular vote, and the key states in the rust belt and Florida were lost by only 1% each. Likewise, even though they lost the house and the senate, the will probably have won the popular vote in those categories as well. The discrepancy in seats is due to redistricting, which is the real “rigging” of the system. That said, Sanders could probably have won this election handily. The Dem leadership who steered everyone to Hillary is to blame for the outcome, and they should all be sacked and replaced by a the new breed the Sanders movement represents.
milton from way down yonder in the thread (apologies for taking so long to get back to you, only just now saw the comment)
But as you drag out these wikileaks, let me ask you one question. Could whomever hacked the DNC have also hacked Trump’s income tax returns?
Sure, and I would say that that is information that should have been shared if it was obtained. Why didn’t they? I have no idea what motivates people to seek these things out, nor how they do it so I can’t answer that. Maybe the people who handle Trump’s tax info take internet security more seriously than the DNC did.
Is there piling on? Maybe. I have no doubt that Assange has motivations that he considers legitimate that you or I might not. But irrespective of that, this is information that is educational to the public about a candidate for the highest office in the world. I think it deserves consideration. We only get a shot at this once every four years, and we are constantly being told to educate ourselves….until we’re being told we shouldn’t. That’s just bizarre to me. And it’s also a mischaracterization of what we’ve actually been doing, which is discussing why we think her candidacy failed. That is perfectly legitimate and is being engaged in by a LOT of people all over the world right now for a lot of different reasons. I think they would be bemused to think that such natural post-mortem discussion is considered by anyone as piling on as opposed to a straightforward examination of such an important event.
She alone faced this shitstorm of subversion and yet now — after she loses — you people pile on.
She hasn’t faced anything alone. She has always had a cadre of believers possessed of near-messianic fervor, both in and outside of her immediate offices, very capable of going to bat to support her. I witnessed some of them on twitter get a young man fired from his job when he dared to challenge Neera Tanden – Tanden, FFS! Not even Clinton. His wife was about to deliver their first child. None of the women responsible for that did anything but gloat over their power.
I agree with you, and Mona, that Clinton has endured an amazing amount of nastiness over the course of her career. To the extent that that has been fueled by misogyny and/or irrational hatred, it’s wrong. But that is not the same as a candid evaluation of her actual actions and of those who act, sometimes in quite heinous ways, on her behalf.
Thank you for sharing the larger history of what you’ve gone through during the course of the primary. I think many of us share that it, we just ended up in different places in the final act. I understand your decision and what you went through to arrive at it. I wish you could extend same to me. None of us arrived at our final compromises without suffering a lot of angst and anxiety and there’s more in store. I think what’s best now is for us to try to get over that and make plans to fight against whatever nasty shit is in store for us and for others whose circumstances may not give them as much protection as we ourselves experience, such as it is and however long it may last.
Rereading much of this reminds to say something I haven’t said.
Despite my own feelings, I’m very grateful to people who dispute me on a human level — that is, not as an enemy but as an interlocutor For me, you are always in the latter category and never in the former.
If I haven’t made that clear, let me do so now. I appreciate comments made in good faith and I have never doubted yours.
I don’t need to repeat what I’ve said earlier so I will end with a quick riddle/analogy.
What’s the difference between a pine tree and a Christmas tree?
Ornaments.
This entire discussion seems like a discussion about the ornaments rather than the tree.
Donald Trump is a match to that tree. A discussion of the sparkly ornaments seems irrelevant and even foolish.
Your concluding sentence is especially cogent and I will not forget it.
Thank you.
The current view from afar, in the Third World, of the plight of the poor and the destitute, jibes quite well with the views expressed in your article, which brings clarity to Tuesday’s seismic failure of the Democratic Party since Bill Clinton’s first administration to see the world as it actually is: It is Full of Hunger and Missery that must be addressed at a global scale:
https://www.academia.edu/13062837/La_Reforma_Tributaria_del_Siglo_XXI_The_XXI_Century_Tax_Reform_-_2011100411
https://www.academia.edu/23094646/OFA_At_the_Brink_of_Recovery_or_Conflagration_The_World_at_a_Tipping_Point_2011111506
https://www.academia.edu/23946856/Facebook_-_Staving_off_the_impending_effects_of_unemployment_through_increased_consumption_2013031903
https://www.academia.edu/28686601/TRUTHOUT_The_solid_wall_between_the_1_and_the_working_poor_in_the_USA_The_minimum_wage_2016041802
https://www.academia.edu/15092472/Living_in_Peru_-_Peru_in_Copenhagen_Thoughts_on_The_Right_to_Pollute_-_Does_it_Exist_-_2010102701
https://www.academia.edu/15092558/Living_in_Peru_-_Peru_in_Copenhagen_2009_-_My_Comments_-_2010102702
https://www.academia.edu/18040396/Living_in_Peru_-_Uses_and_Limitations_of_Michael_Greene_s_Social_Progress_Index_SPI_for_Development_-_2015102202
https://www.academia.edu/13062623/Informal_Proof_of_Thomas_Pikettys_Thesis-2014060802
https://www.academia.edu/12823875/An_idea_set_forth_in_1992_and_written_up_in_1993_A_Partnership_for_Development_with_the_United_States_of_America_-_1993101201
https://www.academia.edu/26966465/An_idea_set_forth_in_1992_written_up_in_1993_and_upgraded_in_1997_A_Partnership_for_Development_with_the_United_States_of_America_-_1997030103.doc
https://www.academia.edu/12823841/Mathematical_Model_and_Simulation_for_A_Partnership_for_Development_with_the_United_States_of_America_-_December_1999
https://www.academia.edu/12412727/WOLL_-_THE_ROLE_OF_INVESTMENT_PROMOTION_ORGANIZATIONS_IN_THIRD_WORLD_DEVELOPMENT_-_VI_-_2007103102
If item #2 above is true, then it’s hard to see how Democrats should really blame themselves all that much as you stated in item #1. If the country really has such a big racist & sexist epidemic, and they went and elected the obvious racist / sexist candidate, HOW exactly is that our fault as Democrats? We let the racist guy run as a Republican? I just fail to see how these points don’t directly contradict each other.
After reading this article it is clear that Greenwald is talking about a continuous problem that has nothing to do with Tuesday. For decades the systems has been rigged to favor the rich. Why does the election go on forever? Because it means money wins. The plutocrats own (lock, stock and barrel) both parties and have avoided real progress since Reagan. Working class whites are beginning to realize they have been screwed by the Republicans and revolted. Democrats offered no alternative but more of the same. Normally, in history, it is the left who lead a revolt. Not this time.
I don’t know that it’s not the left leading the revolt this time. You have to look hard at just how it happened that Hillary lost. There were plenty of left leaning eligible voters left out there who could have showed up and helped to make this election a rout in her favor. Those people weren’t ignorant of the fact that an election was happening and what the possible consequences of staying home or voting for a third party candidate might be, we just chose not to step up and help the Democratic party prevent it by casting a vote for Hillary. Instead, we got out of the way and let Trump and his supporters have their victory, knowing that the one thing that would definitely result is a disruption of the status quo. It won’t be very comfortable for us over the next four years as everyone learns the lessons a President Trump can teach us, but at least we’re making sure that his supporters have to suffer those consequences right along with us. Not only was the DNC put on notice that we’re not going to follow them blindly anymore, but the GOP will have a hard time ignoring the fact that their own chances of being able to gain and keep control of our government are dwindling if they can’t even count on their voters to do what they want them to and nominate a Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio like they’re supposed to. Both the parties are now faced with the reality that they have to reform or die because their “base” no longer exists in reliable enough numbers to guarantee their survival and continued dominance. The message was sent, now expect it to be reinforced in 2018 when a lot more independent and 3rd party candidates show up on the ballots.
I was going to add this as a reply to Pedinska below, but this is important: Maine became the first state in the country Tuesday to pass ranked choice voting
Amy Goodman reported this applies to candidates for both state and federal office. This is an excellent tool for helping gut the “LOTE” weapon.
This is slightly encouraging. I still puzzle that the US has kept with the worst of all worlds voting systems for so long.
Wonderful! This is another very important tool. I hadn’t seen results, so it’s good to know it passed.
This is similar to the Full Preferential voting system used in Australia for electing the Federal House of Representatives and most State lower house legislatures. Optional Preferential voting – where the option for all, or at least, a first preference, needs to be allocated for a valid vote – is also used for Upper House legislatures and Local Government.
@MONA
“Gator asks how I know Bernie would have beat Trump.”
No. That is not accurate. I did not ask anything. I made the factual statement that you cannot know whether Sanders would have defeated Trump. That statement was, of course, irrefutably and self-evidently true. You CANNOT know.
It is your OPINION that Sanders was MORE LIKELY than Clinton to have defeated Trump. It is also your OPINION that I was stupid to believe otherwise at the time I voted in the Florida Democratic primary. And you are absolutely entitled to hold those opinions, and you may well be right on both counts. Or, alternatively, you might, just possibly, be … wait for it … wrong.
In any event, it really doesn’t matter. To the extent I ever felt bad about my primary vote, I’m long since over it. And, while you are of course free to browbeat me all you like, you might profit from getting over it too.
You are again being utterly dishonest. My “opinion” was supported by a pile of FACTS. It is an opinion based in this thing called empiricism, and reasoning from all available evidence. I’ll just adopt Glenn’s language from his appearance on Democracy Now!:
And you are among those responsible for the debacle blaming EVERYONE but yourself.
All the facts predicted the opposite resultsof the final race. Nobody can say anything if the primary would have different. Democrats themselves campaign for Trump by propagating the “crooked” Hillary slogan and by… not voting. Not voting for Clinton means voting for Trump. Same things with Brexit same result but here American cannot say they were not aware.
Hillary did not get elected because a significant part of her constituency was not allowed to vote. It makes me sick that the media refuses to recognize this fact and identify the culprits.
Glenn on Democracy Now! on Trump and Democrats. Part I. I’ve not watched yet and am about to.
Note: Glenn starts about the 18:00 mark in the above Prt I. (But whole thing worth watching.) Glenn Part II.
That 2nd link is screwed up. Part II is here, at about the 34:00 mark.
Just watched it all.
I love Glenn. This was a reminder of why I do.
Yes, and boy, are we going to need his voice, more than ever.
Amen, Mona!
Democracy Now! is a laughable network. They are so unbelievably biased and obviously pro Marxism that I can’t watch it. Democracy has become a code word by the left for Socialism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Ho8OrBzig
“Author and documentary filmmaker John Pilger tells us what has been revealed by Trump winning the US election”
Thank you for this terrific article which sums up everything I’ve been thinking for the past year. Please keep up the great work. We need real journalists like you.
The stakes are higher and an ugly fight has come to us. But I hope that this crisis is an opportunity we needed to finally break through and reform the Democratic Party which has fundamentally changed since the Bill Clinton administration. I hope the party will finally listen to what the Bernie campaign has been saying for the entire year – that what they need to do is NOT move to the center but to be more bold and move to the left if they want to regain the House and Senate.
RMD: what about the DNC’s “superdelegates?”
RMD, a strong HRC supporter, wants to do away with the electoral college. If that is an undemocratic and unfair way to determine who is president, how about the DNC’s cherished “superdelegates, whose “value” was so well explained by Debbie Wasserman Schultz to CNN’s Jake Tapper:
Well, then.
I forgot to mention the superdelegates when I was commenting on the EC and open primaries. Remove it all and let people freely vote. That’s actual democracy and almost everyone who objects to that has some sort of axe to grind that the rest of us would find questionable under given circumstances not working out in favor of our preferred candidate.
Yes.
The superdelegates are a straightforward abomination, an outright perversion of democratic process.
The Electoral College, however, although it sometimes fails to follow the popular vote exactly — and to the extent it fails it undermines pure democracy at the national level — is a different matter.
At the risk of sounding like a states’ rights nutjob, they are, in fact, correct, when they yap about the US being a federal republic. It is and it was intended to be. That form necessarily requires certain checks on tyrannies of a national majority, just as some of the familiar provisions of the Constitution and the BoR do for individuals and minority groups.
The two-per-state Senate is the key compromise reached by the Founders and the allocation of EC votes is the natural extension of that. It’s far from perfect, but we wouldn’t have a Union without it.
[Note: Personally, I think the US is one of the nation states that is much too large and diverse to govern sensibly and fairly, as well as too large and powerful to be safe for the rest of the planet. If I were emperor for a day, there’d be a lot of devolution an dissolution goin’ on.]
I think I agree with you, Doug, on the EC. Mind you, I haven’t given the issue as much thought and investigation as it really requires to form a firm opinion. But along the way your position, as I’ve seen it argued, seems sensible.
Remember, also, that it is entirely up to the states to determine how their EC votes are allocated. Except for Maine and Nebraska, they all do so on a winner-take-all basis, but they don’t have to. They could allocate based upon the vote in congressional districts, they could allocates as a direct reflection of the overall popular vote in the states, etc.
Unhappy voters will find a much more receptive (because it has to be) audience in their state capitals (and, especially, capitols).
As far as the Electoral College goes, I think the reasoning behind it was sound, but it fails to take into consideration the vast differences in the electorate of each individual state. Rather than winner take all, I think we’d be better served either by expanding the EC to make sure that every county or House District has a representative in the EC and their votes are required to be cast in favor of the the popular vote winner in their county or district, or for every state to award their EC votes proportionally the way that Nebraska and Maine do based on the proportion of the overall popular vote in the state. That way California’s conservatives and Texas’ liberals are being represented.
Mona… you know what is pathetic about you? you’re a fucking liar. thats what.
You make claims in order to malign and smear others knowing neither the facts, or you are quite happy to carry on as a vulgar polemicist intent on throwing shit to make an argument…
I am not an HRC supporter, much less a ‘strong’ one.
What I am is someone opposed to the use of the FBI to sway an election, especially down-ballot races critical to establishing the balance of power in the House and Senate.
You?
Your so fucking obsessed with maligning ONE person, that you cannot see that you have empowered an even worse outcome.
Own that, asshole.
Trumplandia™, courtesy of Mona and her shit stirrers
RMG translated: “I have no objections to superdelegates, and only am carping about the electoral college because in this instance it didn’t work for my candidate. Yada, yada, insult, ad hominem, argle bargle, insult, insult, phooey….”
it’s RMD dearie…
and I wasn’t jumping in to your super delegate discussion…
sorry to disappoint. I’ll try harder next time.
argle bargle, insult, ad hom, you know the drill
I just re-read your post Mona… you appear to be quoting me at the top, but I’m not sure…
1. I didn’t introduce the discussion of superdelegates but did opine on the antiquated and patently unfair Electoral College.
2. I’m happy to discuss the DNC’s need to completely rebuild and jettison the hacks.
3. I loathe Schultz and whatever Pedesta and HRC did to Bernie Sanders… and have said so to anyone willing to read my posts.
4. I am not a “strong HRC supporter”… I am a strong opponent of Alt-Rightlandia™ and it’s platoon of goons.
No, I did not quote you and it’s not clear why you thought I did. As for your not being a Clinton supporter, I don’t believe you. Below you wrote:
That simply did not occur. It is a lie. It is a lie as to above the line, and below.
I don’t know enough about the electoral college to make an informed comment but getting rid of it may not solve much and it may give rise to new problems. The political “get out the votes” strategy is now focused on the so-called swing states. But if the electoral college is eliminated then the strategy would focus on States with the largest amount of voters. Smaller states with sparse populations would be ignored and this will exacerbate the inequality issue.
Gator asks how I know Bernie would have beat Trump
What we know is that poll after poll showed Bernie beating Trump more decisively than Hillary could — with a few showing her losing. We know that with the entire DNC apparatus actively arrayed against him, Bernie won 22 primaries. We know HRC told Bernie supporters to fuck themselves when she chose Kaine as VP, openly courted neocons, and in innumerable other ways, as did many of her surrogates; many millennials — told they were vile, sexist “BernieBros” — stayed home in larger numbers than in the past several elections.
We know The Economy Was More Important Than Anything, Exit Polls Say, “The economy, well, trumped foreign policy, immigration, and terrorism as the leading issue among voters.”
And who did the DNC put up? A Wall St. whore and darling of Goldman Sachs who thought TPP is the best thing since sliced bread and who couldn’t bring herself to a full endorsement of a livable minimum wage, and who acted on her belief, as stated to Goldman Sachs, that those to her left are a “bucket of losers” with “low social capital.”
This was a populism election. It was going to be an authoritarian populist, or a social democrat. The DNC — and you, Gator, decided for the former.
I’ll just add to Mona’s excellent explanation/analysis my agreement that (although I was not and am not a Bernie fan) every indication and analysis I’ve seen, and my own evaluation of recent history and the available data, leads me to believe that Sanders would have beaten Trump convincingly.
Suddenly, the polls, which so massively and spectacularly failed to name Trump the winner in the National election are to be regarded as an unquestioned religious treatise if they happen to suggest Bernie would have defeated Trump, (an outlandish suggestion on the face of it).
Bravo. Thank you.
(Apologies for placing this response up here, but my reply function isn’t working.)
@Doug Salzmann
>>>>>1. Got evidence?
Nope. Just my observations over the years.
>>>>>2. Correlation is not causation.
No it’s not, but it can be more than a little suggestive.
>>>>>3. Identity politics is a disaster….
At this point I need to ask you for a definition of “identity politics.” (Of course it’s up to you whether you care to supply one, but I’d appreciate you refraining from pulling an rrheard and telling me to research it. I would like to know what the term means to YOU, specifically.)
It means to me what it means, I think, to most who study the issue: the tendency for people to organize and act politically according to their races, genders, sexual identities, religions or lack thereof, subcultural niches, etc. — and to prioritize issues relating to those comparatively narrow identities over broader ones such as class and economic-political ideology.
The result of this narrow approach to politics is, quite often, misidentification of the parties and entities responsible for justified grievances and the pitting of oppressed groups against each other.
The Majority of American Voters Did Not Choose Trump for President
It’s time to do away with the Electoral College and its thwarting of democracy.
By John Nichols
This is what we know on the Thursday after the election:
Clinton has a 230,000-vote lead over Trump.
47.7 %
– vs –
47.5 %
the Electoral College was established at the founding of a country that distrusted democracy to such an extent that it did not allow women, people of color, and poor people to cast ballots.
This is not the 1st time a popular-vote loser will ‘win’ the presidency.
It’s the 2nd time that a Republican loser has become president in less than 20 years
–In 2000 Gore defeated Bush the lesser by roughly 540,000 votes,
however, an interventionist US Supreme Court, much like an interventionist FBI for Trump, aided in handing W power.
Americans who object to Trump have a right to assemble and to protest. But their protest should include a systemic complaint:
Presidential elections should be decided by the popular vote of the American people, not via a convoluted process that assigns the most powerful office in the United States, and arguably the world, to the loser in the balloting.
source: John Nichols, The Atlantic [with a few editorial nudges]
https://www.thenation.com/article/the-majority-of-american-voters-did-not-choose-trump-for-president/
I agree with this and have for a very long time, not just as an artifact of this given election. I think it’s far past time that we go with one person/one vote, count them up and run with the winner.
I also think we should have open primaries. People should be able to vote for whomever moves them in a given election without the parties interfering in that choice. We have open primaries in Ohio and it has never been an issue. You wlak in the door, tell them which party primary you wish to vote in and go. Does it lead to some jiggery-fuckery at times? Sure. I know democrats who voted for Kasich trying to keep Trump out. Does that work? Well, not this time. :-s
I understand the sentiment, but the Republic was never designed or intended for a one-person — one vote-system for choosing a president (indeed, popular voting of any sort wasn’t a requirement). And there would never have been a United States under our Constitution if that had been a requirement for membership. The smaller states would simply not have signed on.
And any attempt to change the situation now would cause today’s smaller states to (quite sensibly) revisit their commitment to the Union.
It’s not going to happen.
The Republic was never designed or intended to allow blacks or women to vote. If we followed your thought process here, women and African Americans would still be standing around twiddling our capable thumbs while our white menz acted on our *uneducated/*incapable behalf. Thank God we got over that particular prohibition.
The circumstances created over 200 years ago have changed. Whether or not the power brokers of today are willing to make this change, there is nothing wrong with recognizing the antiquated – and WRONG – thinking that was involved in its creation and its continued perpetuation.
states that have fewer citizens get to have a higher value in their selection for representation than the rest of us…. is idiotic and patently unfair.
Along with gerrymandering, voter suppression, and FBI involvement in smearing a candidate for President… the Alt-Right can count on buffoons like Doggie to go to bat for them.
….all in the name of making sure one party is hamstrung.
Purity, uber alles… right doggie?
If those complaining now had brought this up before the election when Hillary was all-but guaranteed an electoral college victory, the complaint would probably have more weight now.
“Presidential elections should be decided by the popular vote of the American” people err you had all your life to learn the electoral college, dont be crying sour grapes because you didnt get what you wanted. America has never been a democracy it is a Constitutional Republic
Let me uncomplicate this.
Voters had three choices:
Clinton.
Trump.
Neither.
(“Neither” includes Johnson, Stein, no vote, a write-in vote or staying home. 90 million voters didn’t vote.)
Three choices.
However the outcome of the election was binary. Two choices.
Clinton.
Trump.
“Neither” wasn’t ever a viable or realistic outcome. Would you have voted differently if you knew the outcome?
Putting aside all the fine arguments this article has provoked, it seems almost certain that the “Neither” vote swung the election to Trump.
Therefore, if you voted Johnson, Stein, McCain, left the presidential box empty or stayed home, you are responsible for Trump’s win. This was a foreseeable and natural result.
If you didn’t vote Clinton, you effectively voted Trump.
See how easy this is?
You don’t get to explain, afterwards, how rational or virtuous or imperative your choice of “Neither” was. You don’t get to complain about the political terrain that we all had to face. You don’t get to make flamboyant analogies or byzantine explanations.
If you didn’t vote for Clinton, you’re now responsible for Trump and the Republicans ascension to almost absolute political power.
Those of you with a guilty conscience should deal with it rather than blaming Clinton for your poor choice of Donald Trump. Sure, you can tell your neighbors, your friends, your family, or the dark silence of history, that you didn’t vote for Trump — even when he opens the Deportation Camps … but you know.
Don’t you?
When you had the chance, you stood aside. You may have wonderful explanations for yourself, but what difference do those explanations make today? What difference will they make a year from now?
I hope this bit of clarity helps.
If you didn’t vote for Clinton, you’re now responsible for Trump and the Republicans ascension to almost absolute political power.
You can frame it this way if you want milton but that doesn’t make it accurate or even valid. Many of us chose to exercise our right to reject these candidates as unworthy, either by abstaining or choosing an alternative.
Just as you may choose to exercise your franchise by LOTE voting, or supporting a candidate who is likely to do very horrible things in the world – or has already done very horrible things in the world – we get to choose how to exercise our franchise.
But I have responsibility for the choice that I actually make. And I made one that I can live with. And no one, NO ONE, gets to tell me that I am responsible for the actions of a candidate that I in no way supported, canvassed for or did anything other than reject because of the own immoral actions.
Is that clear enough?
Bullshit.
You understood that there were only two potential outcomes, and you abdicated your responsibility to use what little influence you had to rank them.
Both potential outcomes were horrific, yet THIS one was CLEARLY WORSE.
It is of no consequence to the rest of the world that you are deluded enough to pretend your hands are clean.
You are just as deep in denial about your part in this as the Democratic Party is about its part in this.
Just like here in the US, there is no doubt that the elevation of Trump is causing a great deal of anxiety. Unrecognized by many here, who insist on weighting these candidates based on their own circumstances – a perfectly natural thing to do – there were also a great many places in the world that suffered anxiety over a potential Clinton presidency.
The fact that you choose to value more highly the AT THIS POINT STRICTLY SUGGESTIVE POTENTIAL of what Trump MAY do, over the demonstrative actions of Clinton and the ACTUAL RESULTS of what she has done, deeming those lesser, might be interesting to the women of Libya, Honduras, Iraq and other places where she is not viewed by necessities on the ground as definitively the Lesser Of Two Evils.
But keep trying to insist that you know more about these things than the people who’ve been on the receiving end of the bombs she’s already unleashed. Live your sanctimony, darlin’. I’m not going to pretend that I can make that leap of….faith.
It is moronic to pretend that you speak for “women of Libya, Honduras, Iraq.”
So moronic, that you MUST be aware that you’re lying, even if you are so tragically ignorant, that you are unaware that President Elect, Rapey the KKKlown has explicitly promised to “BOMB THE SHIT OUT OF” the Middle East.
I’m not speaking for anyone but myself. But I will allow Berta Cáceres to speak for me:
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/11/before_her_assassination_berta_caceres_singled
How are you so imbecilic that you can’t understand what a comparison is?
Berta Cáceres never suggested that Rapey the climate-change-denying, torture-promoting, KKKlown wouldn’t be FAR WORSE.
What a repulsive prostitution of the memory of a truly great woman, activist and human being.
Lisa, your statement “yet this was clearly worse” is rejected as unsupportable at this time. Your may think this but the jury is out.
What makes the Climate-Change-Denier-in-Chief clearly worse on climate, ALREADY involves asking Canada to reopen the rejected Keystone XL Pipeline proposal. THAT ALONE is already clearly worse.
What makes the Muslim-Hater-in-Chief clearly worse on the Middle East, is the fact that he has already promised to “bomb the shit out of” it, and refuses to rule out the use of nukes.
What makes the Racist-in-Chief clearly worse for non-white Americans, is that he is openly tolerant of, and supported by, white supremacist terrorist organizations.
What makes the Rapist-in-Chief clearly worse for women, is that he is both a promoter, and a denier, of sexual assault, AS WELL AS the fact that he has promised to fill Supreme Court vacancies with anti-choice activists.
What makes President Elect, Rapey the KKKlown, clearly worse, is already evident and will only become more pronounced.
Likewise, what makes your response, that of a ‘reject’, is already evident, and will only become more pronounced (as that horrific cartoon piles up more and more for you to play blind to).
Lisa,
I sympathize with your angst; but just give it a bit more time. We have Trump for four years, we need to find a way to live with that. He would like four more and that will define how he actually behaves.
You’re so oblivious that you were blind to even the MOST public of Rapey the KKKlown’s intentions.
From your reply, I see that you are STILL blind to them; you failed to see the difference between a list of facts, and “angst”.
I expect that you will never get any smarter, because YOU HAVE THE RIGHT to be oblivious, and no one can MAKE you THINK.
However, WITH that right comes the RESPONSIBILITY not to pretend that you have any wisdom to offer.
I voted for Jill Stein in the general and probably have more of a beef with Hillary the hawk than most. I nevertheless agree with every word you’ve said about Trump and his filth brigade being a massive, orders of magnitude greater horror to the nation and the world than Hillary. People who can’t recognize that fact are probably too far gone mentally to bother with at this point. They can’t even begin to comprehend the magnitude of what has just taken place.
Fair enough.
I’ve been screamed at by the Hysterics for Trump Brigade (mister, dahoit, anon. etc.) on this site and I’m tired of the rhetorical abuse from a legion of aliases.
I thought to make responsibilities clear in this cacophony of dumb. If you vote Trump, you own Trump. If you vote Clinton, you own Clinton. If you evade the vote, still you’ve chosen.
To quote Graham Greene:
Everyone has the right to vote as they choose. The recriminations make no sense. Defending or supporting Clinton doesn’t benefit Trump. From the long list of expletive laced rationalizations — “I’m pure, you’re to blame.”
For instance, (ignoring the ludicrous analogizing of Trump and Brexit) GG’s first argument is ridiculous.
This is as common among losers of any competition that it shouldn’t surprise anyone, least of all someone as brilliant as Mr. Greenwald. “The water was too wet … the footballs were deflated … the pavement was too rough … ” After a loss, people look for explanations. Recriminations follow. GG wants to blame Clinton”s participation in the rigged system instead of the “sociopathic” Trump who’s spent a lifetime directly profiting from the the rigged system. Swell. That’s neither informative nor interesting.
The issue of elites versus ordinaries — Wall Street versus Main Street — has been a central feature of American politics at least since Reagan (and more likely in one form or another since before the Civil War.)
So I want to make it clear. A vote for Trump is a vote for Trump. A vote for Clinton is a vote for Clinton. But a no vote is a vote for the eventual winner because it doesn’t change the outcome. Rather than blame Clinton voters for electing Trump, at least admit that a vote equals a choice and that no vote equals a choice too.
If you’re happy with your choice, good for you. I have unequivocally repudiated Trump since the day he announced his approval of torture and I’ll be goddamned if Greenwald or any of the other chatterers on this board try to blame me for that vile megalomanical blubbery glob of orange hued idiocy.
Greenwald pontificates:
Where was he when Patton led a cavalry charge against the bonus marchers. Not born, right? This shit has been going on for two centuries (remember the Whiskey Rebelliion?)
Suddenly Clinton’s to blame??
I’m sorry if I offend anyone, but this is just another bullshit recrimination — an attached explanation to an event that truly has little to do with the event itself. The guy who flipped off Taibbl wasn’t thinking, “gosh … Trump will fix what Clinton has failed to fix.”
He was thinking (I imagine), “I blame the fucking elite and especially their courtiers — their shills, the media — and I’m voting for Trump or else I’m picking up a shotgun and going postal in Times Square.”
But mostly, Pedinska, I’m terrified of living in Trumpland and I’m enormously pissed off that someone who’s been spuriously and maliciously attacked for three decades being blamed for Trump. If you want to blame her for participating in the murder of Americans in Libya or a journalist in Honduras, that’s fine — but to me it’s just an echo of her adopting an alien baby with her lesbian Chinese lover who procures rape victims for Bill.
Many people voting for Clinton were expressly voting against Trump. People who work with her and for her oppose Trump. How that makes her responsible for Trump’s election is a fucking mystery to me. Her not fixing the economic inequities that have plagued America since its founding isn’t a very good reason to blame her for Trump’s election.
Your party will never succeed until it starts respecting all Americans, no matter their race. Statistics show that Trump will probably be a good president with two terms. If he is really popular and Pence is interested–we may have a President Pence in 8 years. However it turns out, the Dems will be in the WH again in 8 or 12 years. That’s just the way of a two party system. However, until the Dems start listening to the people, they will never gain in governorships, state houses, or the Senate or House.
That is just the facts. You lost the battle so get over it.
Many here are not convinced that Clinton was the lesser evil, for one thing, and many here are not convinced by the “vote for the lesser evil” argument to begin with. You may find this offensive, but I think you’re missing the point that Clinton can be perceived as having dangerous tendencies of her own that made her as unacceptable as Trump, and perhaps more so.
“If you didn’t vote Clinton, you effectively voted Trump.” An obviously ridiculous statement. I didn’t vote for Clinton, but I live in solid blue state that was certain to give its electoral votes to HRC – which it did. So I in no way “effectively voted Trump.”
You obsessive HRC supporters continue with your smug Bernie bashing. You should get real and put the blame for the loss where it belongs: on HRC.
With all due respect (and I’ve always found you a clear thinker) milt, that’s about as clear as mud. *you can blame Trump for that \ . . /
1. First, Trump’s grotesque horror show would/should never have been possible … if Obama (and by extension, HRC) had done his fucking job. Do you really think Trump would be bellowing about ‘bringing back waterboarding and whole lot worse’ if, not to be redundant … Obama (and by extension, HRC) had done his fucking job.
I remember. Obama was elected, with a clear and unmistakable mandate, to resolve those things you listed below, namely; ‘invasion of Iraq (add Afghanistan too, imo), global financial fraud, the ‘stupid’ war on terror’, contra-renditions, institutional torture … and the destabilization of the whole fucking world.
Pretty platitudes notwithstanding, afaict Obama et el have spent the past eight years posing for pictures and filling their bank accounts at the government trough. Ergo TRUMP.
2. Hillary R. Clinton richly deserves the rebuke. “The Democratic Party’s failure to keep Donald Trump out of the White House in 2016 will go down as one of the all-time examples of insular arrogance. The party not only spent most of the past two years ignoring the warning signs of the Trump rebellion, but vilifying anyone who tried to point them out. It denounced all rumors of its creeping unpopularity as vulgar lies and bullied anyone who dared question its campaign strategy by calling them racists, sexists and agents of Vladimir Putin’s Russia.” Matt Taibbi
3. I’d rather be blind, crippled and crazy.
Donna Brazile flayed by staffer in DNC meeting:
Apparently, he was not alone in this sentiment, though he was the only one with enough balls to tell her to her face.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donna-brazile-democratic-national-committee_us_5824cb95e4b0ddd4fe7954e8?f019736x1ofscerk9
That is so very special. I was going to post it but checked and you beat me to it!
You go, Zach!
@MONA
I realize that you’re bitter about HRC winning the Dem nomination instead of Sanders, and that you believe Sanders would have defeated Trump. Obviously, you cannot know whether Sanders would have defeated Trump. But assuming for argument’s sake that he would have, then clearly I fucked up by voting for HRC in the Florida Dem primary. (How long you wish to flay me about it is a matter for your discretion — feel free to keep doing so indefinitely if it makes you feel good.)
On the other hand. When I looked at my general election ballot, I cast my vote for the one person on that ballot who had any possibility of defeating Trump. Did you?
Glenn Greenwald is, hands down, one of the finest journalists alive. Excellent piece and thank you, Glenn.
The assumption that the Democrats’ loss would generate change is baseless. Facing the Republican triad, it is outright delusional to expect any meaningful improvement in the political system. As to change in the Democratic party, demonizing it, even if deserved to certain extent, is unlikely to encourage change, and is more likely to generate cosmetic face lifting than a fundamental makeover.
So the point of this article is puzzling, to say the least, and the attempt to re-write history by singling out the Democrats and Clinton as the sole source for the disaster we are facing is incomprehensible.
the attempt to re-write history by singling out the Democrats and Clinton as the sole source for the disaster we are facing is incomprehensible.
It also didn’t happen. At least not in the article above.
Clinton isn’t even mentioned until the fifth paragraph, and even then it isn’t her specifically who is referenced, but rather the self-affirming, vehemently pro-Clinton elite echo chamber of 2016.
So, what is incomprehensible here is basically you’re reading comprehension. :-s
The article offers an explanation for Brexit and Trump’s presidency. In the latter’s context Clinton is a central player. It also names the Democrats in the title of the article, as well as in the first point: “1. Democrats have already begun …”.
While GG focuses on the elites, it is clear that he is singling out the liberal Democrats and Clinton. Consider, for example, the 1st sentence of the article:
The following example furthers the idea right-wing agenda and politicians are distinct from his usage of elites in the article. Here GG refers to Brexit and Trump as populist outcomes, while in reality they were classical right-wing political methods and agenda, and a top-down initiative rather than the way he tries to depict it.
Notice how he establishes false directionality: Brexit and Trump are used as tools by disillusioned people (while the reality of populism is that people’s pain and suffering are used by elites as instruments to gain political traction and power). Also, here too, Brexit and Trump, with whom the people express protest, are distinguished from the elites.
Or here:
And since Brexit and Trump are in fact elite’s initiatives, he again designate the buzzword elites to the part represented exclusively by Clinton and the Democrats.
While you correctly point out he talks about elites rather than Clinton and Democrats (and the powers controlling and represented by them), he clearly refers only to the part excluding Republicans, Trump, and conservatives in general, which is de facto Clinton and Democrats.
So your reason for dismissing my comment is false, and nitpicking rather than substantial. It is also irrelevant: GG not only falsely singles out elites‘ abuses as the only relevant or primary engine behind Brexit and Trump, he also misrepresents the elites when excluding from it the powers starting and moving those so called revolts. Your dismissal also strangely disregards the first part of my comment, which talks about the absurdity of expecting Brexit or Trump to change the conditions abused by their perpetrators and beneficiaries, an assumption implicit in the last sentence of the article, specifically the bit about lessons learned and internalized:
I understand the importance of his diatribe to the refusal of progressives like him to accept alternatives or additions to their mantra-like recital of over-simplifying narratives, but his arguments here are self-serving, easily countered, and sloppy.
I agree with much of what you say, it’s an age old problem that repeats itself time and time again and the lesson is never learnt. Greed festering within the elite and it does not go unnoticed. If there were no honest democratic elections then there would be revolution.
the public was given a choice between two elites. they chose the more pernicious one. how is that “a collapse of elite authority”? it’s the democratic party that has collapsed, just that faction of the elite
the day after the brexit vote, markets crashed worldwide and the pound lost 8% versus the euro. the pound has continued to drop since. yesterday and today, the dow was up, and the dollar has risen against the euro
with trump as president, the financial elite will be more powerful than ever. he and the republican congress will get along perfectly. for decades the right has dreamed of rolling back the new deal; now – thanks to an inane and inept american left – that dream may be realized
cuckoo
Here’s somewhat of a confirmation of the theory that the powers that be in America changed their mind at the last minute about Clinton, switching to their (equally-owned) Trump because of her absurd and stubborn insistence on provoking a war with Russia. It seems the Kremlin were genuinely concerned Hillary was unstable in this area – and if they were alarmed, it seems to me our elites would have been also.
Kremlin: Clinton Victory Would Have Led to World War 3 Between Russia and the US
Very much liked reading this. There were a few things I started to think I could argue, but then I took a good look at myself, my neighbors, my family and my country and realized there was no arguing point. There are people in my country exactly as you describe. It may not be me, but I do not represent everyone in my country. There are many in my country who see Trump as their “molatov cocktail”. I don’t. I see him as a businessman who will do what he has to in order to get what he wants. Just so you know, there is a movement starting to try to get electoral voters to either abstain or change their vote so this thing is not done yet. They have until December 19 to convince the electoral voters. This has been an historic year in the USA and this current movement just might work and be a first in history. We shall see, I guess. At this point, like you said, the message has been sent. Now we will all be experiencing the fallout and hopefully a lesson learned and heeded.
Glenn, good article. However, Bernie Sanders already knew the lesson of Brexit, before the Brexit vote. Bernie started a movement that was already talking about these dangers. Think of how different this election could have been if it was Bernie vs Trump?
A PawPawism: “Sometimes you should just shut up, and let the other guy be wrong; because, no matter what you say, he will stay that way.” In other words, now is the time for action. Finger pointing, excuse the pun, is pointless.
Noticing a troubling tendency among progressives/leftists to ignore or downplay the obvious bigotry and “Redeemer” white supremacy embedded in the Trump campaign and now, Admin. Here I see in a tweet:
Tim Carney @TPCarney
Low-income rural white voters in Pa. voted for Obama in 2008 and then Trump in 2016, and your explanation is white supremacy? Interesting.
What’s “interesting” is the failure to distinguish between social structure and individuality. White supremacy is a social structure, not an attribute of “bad” individuals. It is precisely because “whites” will be socially blind to white supremacy that the “white working class” was easy pickings for the 1%ers over the last 30-some years. And thanks to race privilege that on the average still benefit “white workers”, a juicier picking too. Hence the identity politics game played by both the RINOs and Clintonites.
By 2008 many of the “white working class” began to feel correctly that race privilege wasn’t working like it should. This they expressed by voting for the black guy to see if his Hopium might make a difference. But alas it was from Hopium to Nopium. So now they are trying the guy promising to redeem their race privilege at least.
That’s true (because that’s the truth of the Trump campaign) regardless of whether such individuals thought that way or not. It’s not because they are with the KKK or some such nonsense.
Did that make it more “interesting” to all? Because for me it is as obvious as the pointy nose on a white face.
Something pathetic about suddenly noticing the electoral college again 16 years after the last time. Oh hey let’s do something about that, we’re up in arms…..same exact stuff was said after 2000. What happened then? What will come of this now?
And some people have actually started an online petition in a gesture of complete cluelessness about how this would work.
@Doug Salzmann
I’ve noticed that whenever someone uses the phrase “identity politics,” they are almost invariably white and male. I wonder why that is.
Because you’re confirming your bias?
1. Got evidence?
2. Correlation is not causation.
3. Identity politics is a disaster that has been strengthening the rulers and elites for decades, while pitting their victims against each other. The bosses laugh all the way to the bank.
I, a woman, use the phrase “identity politics” and significantly agree with Doug. On the one hand, WHITE PEOPLE foisted identity politics on darker-skinned peoples. What has been American, Klan-style (but also less vulgar versions of white supremacy) racism other than identity politics?
On the other hand, to whatever extent it is valid, identity politics has been largely co-opted in the service of neoliberal horseshit, primarily to the benefit of mostly white, professional women. (And to some extent by African-American, financially well-off men.) God knows the Hillary Corps — on behalf of a millionaire woman who is a darling of Goldman Sachs — deployed identity politics as a cudgel against people on the left.
A pox on them.
White people with power foisted the whole schmear on “deplorables” of all races, genders and creeds. Cuz it’s useful, profitable and powerful for the elites.
That is quite the quote. Johnson was a fucking smart guy. A total bastard, but a smart guy. In stark contrast to the Democrat du jour, regarding whom we have this thoroughly tawdry tidbit:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11/report-hillary-clinton-couldnt-stop-crying-blamed-comey-obama-stunning-loss-video/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=im
Her logical path: Assange, Sanders, Putin, Comey, Obama… ????
Like Saturn, she finally comes back around to eating her own.
Not only stunningly dangerous, but vile, vicious, criminal,…. and stupid.
Yes, the only people who complain about “identity politics” are those privileged enough to find it useless. For others, it’s a key to survival. Abolition, women’s suffrage, the civil rights movement, and more recent protests against police brutality are all (and have to be) grounded in “identity politics.”
Really? Do you have like some documents you can point to?
I believe this is the beginning, the only saving grace the elite received was the 469 seats open for re-election in the house and senate, since the corporate/government controlled media kept away from that story for obvious reasons, 90% of the seats open were re-elected, so the power remained where the elite wanted it to remain. It would of been really great had people gotten off their collective butts did some research and not voted status quo on those seats think of the uproar that would of caused. Trump as he is now will get very little done the power brokers of K Street, Wall Street, etal will see to that. Oh what could of been we could of blown the doors off Brexit and should of but we were lazy.
Excellent analysis. Most the ‘journalists’ and pundits are so myopic with their intractable focus on race and identity politics in general. ie, Van Jones.
@Mathieu Lemyre Garneau
Also too, Comey’s last letter to Congress was not sent “before the vote” as you claim. Tens of millions of people had already voted, many under the false impression that the FBI had explosive new evidence of criminal conduct by HRC. (Just in case you’re not American, many U.S. states have what is called “early voting,” which allows voting to begin well before the official Election Day.)
(Apologies for placing this response up here, but my reply function isn’t working.)
@ Mathieu Lemyre Garneau
>>>>”And what did you say when the FBI, earlier in the campaign, took it on themselves to announce that Clinton should basicaly just be forgiven and that she should not be prosecuted for the e-mail server scandal?”
I said, “No shit she shouldn’t be prosecuted since there’s no evidence of a crime. Wait a second, what the fuck is Comey going on about now? Extremely careless??? Why is he offering gratuitous personal opinions denigrating a presidential candidate when he already said there’s no basis to prosecute her? What is this ratfucker trying to pull???”
Or words to that effect.
Hillary Clinton lost counties and states NO ONE and NO POLLING by conventional methods remotely suggested she should have the least worry about. David Plouffe that it was genius to ignore PA because it was such a “safe” state; she lost it by 1%.
The single best analysis of who voted and why, and how this was missed by virtually everyone, is this by the NYT’s Nick Cohn:
And as Jim Newell wrote in Slate:
YOU, GATOR, VOTED FOR HILLARY “TPP” CLINTON IN YOUR PRIMARY. With the country going through a wave of populism over bank bailouts, declining jobs and wages, and millennials facing crushing debt and stating an affinity for social democratic policies — a cohort whom Team Hillary attacked and maligned as sexist “BernieBros” and accusations of “trust-funders loving their “Great White Messiah”(Bernie) — this humiliating loss is not only unsurprising, it is richly deserved.
Go look in a mirror, Gator: You helped cause this.
Horse manure!
When you blame someone who voted against Trump for Trump winning you employ the same sort of twisted logic that blames African American males running away from police for getting shot.
Blame those who voted for Trump for Trump’s win.
Don’t blame those who didn’t vote for Trump for Trump’s win.
Geesh!
That’s not what she did milton. Check out the capitolized, bolded line a the top of the next-to-last paragraph and please tell me how Trump got into the Democratic primary. ;-}
Excellent article, will share it as often as possible.
I read other people some of them on the right like Hitchens but Glenn is the one I come home to and this article is exactly what I was trying to say to people in the Primaries .Good , coherent , easiest read in a while ….thanks.
It would be interesting to live in the fantasy world Greenwald lives in where he sees what he wants, invents his own facts.
Obama didn’t win low income Whites in PA. What an idiot. And I am glad the left seem to be as sick of you as the right has always been.
Mr. Greenwald as a person of quite different convictions, I have appreciated your integrity. Please keep that. One thought on this —
Trump seems to me essentially a businessman. His acceptance speech sounds full of excitement to run the business of America. As such he’s really quite a different type than a career politician (or than the journalist). Ie, he feels as alien (and scary) to the ruling class as most of you do to the average blue collar worker: but they get him perfectly. Maybe he will not prove to be so much a specially nefarious evil (clearly he has problems but I’m not sure if they qualify for intensely heightened fears) as just someone with a wildly different approach. And perhaps that approach will actually be good in many functional ways for America. I can’t be certain, and may be wrong — but it seems possible.
It would interesting to go back and rewrite all the demonisations, misreportings and twistings of what has been (often badly enough) actually said or done through the campaign and see if Trump emerges differently: how much of the monster the left is now so afraid of was created in their own imagination? We do this on the right too. It’s sad.
Thank you for the thoughtful article. It is too easy to react to this upset by blaming others. But I want to move forward with an eye on the past and an understanding of how we got to this point.
@Mahatma, who continues his wackadoodle spewing
No. She’s not.
She and her Field of Dreams team are still under the First Look umbrella and building their own thing. As the FL project grows this is to be expected and is a good thing. FoD was hosted here at it’s beginning but is growing into its own, freestanding (and quite impressive) project.
Most doubtful. Glenn happens to be the first recipient of the “Izzy Award,” way back in ’09. Moreover, see this review of a new documentary: Film Review: ‘All Governments Lie: Truth, Deception, and the Spirit of I.F. Stone’, my emphasis:
The film includes interviews with many contemporary heirs of Stone: Jeremy Scahill, Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald, Michael Moore, Amy Goodman, Noam Chomsky, John Carlos Frey, and Cenk Uygur.
So then THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE only the rich white men (several of whom were representatives of the WaPo and other clearly Neoliberal establishment corporate news outlets which Snowden contacted and did business with) should tell my community what is best for it? I.F. Stone would dance with joy no doubt.
How about addressing the issue of elite rich white men in total control and their absolute refusal to even consider broader involvement.
Please post your argument that the editorial board of the Intercept and all the people contacted by Snowden (save one woman) are not rich white men. Include your supporting argument that the only benefactor of the Intercept pays almost nothing in taxes to the community where I live depriving it of need funds for schools and health care and things of public good. Please demonstrate that even though this mulit-billionare is only funding the Intercept out of civic duty without any concern for his own interests. Show also, how this oligarch does not attack you me and our communities and the society in which we live by spying, stealing our personal information, and raping our privacy.
Ha. Change.org petition:
Electoral College: Make Hillary Clinton President on December 19
Did the KKK leave your message on your car?
Glen…
I *generally* agree with your article. I hoped you had come to your senses. I know you supported Hillary.
But, without a doubt, she does belong in prison. IMHO.
I TAKE EXCEPTION TO YOUR STATEMENT AT THIS TIME: >>>”It goes without saying that Trump is a sociopathic con artist obsessed with personal enrichment: the opposite of a genuine warrior for the downtrodden. That’s too obvious to debate. … Obama… <<<
Time will tell. The verdict won't be known on this for awhile. But, the verdict could come sooner if someone tries to eliminate him. Obama nothing more than a trained monkey for Clinton Cash and the Clinton Foundation.
That's why Killary got Secretary of State — as a quid pro quo for Hillary's concession; thus, giving him a limited LICENSE to occupy the Oval Office.
Wake up, man. I liked your work with Snowden… but I don't like your work and/or attitude regarding the DNC.
The election map says it all: The DNC has ALWAYS used the inner city slums as breeding grounds for Kamikazes who don't know their true rank on the social chessboard. PAWNS.
PS. The Clintons have always been BIG TIME (scary big) dope dealers and everything that goes along with that ‘career’. Remember Mena, Arkansas???
I know this to be an absolute truth. And, you cannot argue with me about it. I’ve actually been there. I know the area. Personal experience from about 35+ years ago. That time period in my life scared the shit out of me. I split from the entire scene.
(Apologies for placing response up here, but my reply function isn’t working.)
@Kate Powell and Pedinska:
It’s easy and fun to “Monday morning quarterback” a losing campaign. No doubt HRC and the Dems made any number of significant mistakes, some of them quite perplexing. But the fact remains that HRC was universally considered to be sailing toward victory right up until the FBI decided to act as an extension of the Trump campaign, at which time the “Trump as Sexual Predator” narrative vanished and the momentum palpably shifted.
My TV told the story thusly:
Grab them by the pussy … You can do it if you’re a star … Fifth woman steps forward …. Grab them by the pussy … Seventh woman steps forward … Republicans scrambling to distance selves from Trump … Grab them by the pussy … Trump in freefall, ranting about election being rigged … Grab them by the pussy … Ninth woman steps forward … Republicans won’t even say his name anymore … Grab them by — HEY LOOK OVER THERE!!! OH MY FUCKING GOD EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-MAILZ!!!!!!
And so the wheel of history turns…
And what did you say when the FBI, earlier in the campaign, took it on themselves to announce that Clinton should basicaly just be forgiven and that she should not be prosecuted for the e-mail server scandal?
To claim that they acted as an extension of Trump’s campaign requires to ignore that they had previously done the exact opposite and in a larger measure. Also they did, AGAIN, speak about how, in the end, nope, she was all cleared and good to go, before the vote.
“It goes without saying that Trump is a sociopathic con artist obsessed with personal enrichment: the opposite of a genuine warrior for the downtrodden. That’s too obvious to debate. But, just as Obama did so powerfully in 2008, he could credibly run as an enemy of the D.C. and Wall Street system that has steamrolled over so many people, while Hillary Clinton is its loyal guardian, its consummate beneficiary.”
Mr. Greenwald–You do not know this. For one thing you are not a trained psychologist. You have not spent hours around Donald Trump making careful observations and taking extensive notes. Your portrait of Trump is a fantasy that matches your desires. The Trump that emerges strangely resembles you! If you were a finely talented novelist I might take you seriously, but you are an attorney turned journalist. And neither profession has a great reputation for good reasons. In fact both professions probably have a rather higher than average number of psychopaths in them. Of course you are probably using the term sociopath like most people–as a way to defame someone you don’t like. You might want to take more care in your writing.
Glenn’s diagnosis of Trump isn’t any different than that of many clinical psychologists. As far as I know, they didn’t follow him around either, they, same as Glenn, studied his words, actions and the many available videos of him.
Clinical Psychologists Diagnose Donald Trump
>>> Glenn’s diagnosis of Trump isn’t any different than that of many clinical psychologists. As far as I know, they didn’t follow him around either, they, same as Glenn, studied his words, actions and the many available videos of him. <<<
I don't need a educated idiot to diagnose Hillary.
On election night, at DNC Election HQ, after she knew that she'd lost, she didn't dismiss her Kamikaze Army, herself.
Instead, She sent her pedophile campaign manager to dismiss them. Then, they started rioting from coast to coast… and started beating white people…. and even stole their cars.
Glenn Greenwald has, as you note, worked in a profession with not a few sociopaths, whose job it is to defend socioipaths in the business world; indeed, he left his first, highly lucrative position with a Wall St. firm because such people sickened him. He’s a very well qualified layman to know them when he sees them.
All one needs to do to understand the vile sociopathology of Donald Trump is read his history regarding the Central Park Five. These five dark-skinned men were innocent.
That’s obscene; he’s proud of such statements about five men whom he tried, very hard, to ensure were executed.
Clinton to Podesta: “Elevate pied-piper-strategy”:
As a campaign strategy that doesn’t strike me as a bad thing to do at all. Though it takes great hubris to be discussing this before the primaries were even close to being over, it makes sense to try to aim for the target that offers you the biggest perceived potential for final victory.
The only thing wrong with it was their assumption that they could pull off the final. And that bit about how now we are ALL stuck with the dregs of their failure.
Aside: I have been enjoying your contributions here. :-)
Glenn:
Thank you for this brilliant piece, so on the money.
While you’re right to point out that racism/misogyny/xenophobia was not the biggest factor in this result, it still needs to be emphasized that misogyny played a disturbing role. The fact that this backlash happened to occur against a (first ever) female candidate, and that it took the form of classic male chauvanist (at best), is no accident. That gender element is not essential to this backlash, and it may be the confluence of that sexism and the problems you describe so well here that tipped the election.
Someone downthread said they hope to see the new Justice Dept. prosecute Hillary. But, while I agree that it would be well deserved, that fact that a woman would finally be held accountable while an ocean of men are committing the same crimes would just turn my stomach. Frankly I’d rather see Clinton escape justice than to see her made an example of, which is how a large swath of this country would interpret it.
Now, there’s an excellent example of the contortions into which the champions of identity politics so often twist themselves.
BTW, did you notice that Trump led among white women?
Well, it is a bit “contortion-y” but Hillary really has long brought out deep misogyny. Back in the 90s the Rightwing Noise Machine made an industry of it.
I have a dear friend who is also my housemate; she’s a generation older than I am and was a young woman in the 50s. She very well recalls living through severe and outrageous sexist policies and attitudes. So, she may be hyper-sensitive to it, but I don’t think she’s wrong to see some sexism in certain quarters vis-a-vis Hillary.
It’s just that Hillary is, independent of that, loathsome for entirely rational reasons.
Even though Women of a Certain Age who were Hillary fanatics see sexism (or say they do) everywhere where Hillary is concerned, I think it is also necessary to understand some of us did live through some pretty nasty shit, and it does linger, including as applied to Hillary. For women of these older generations, having a first woman president takes on too much importance; it’s subordinated to considerations of having the right woman be first.
Further, it’s re-emerging in certain younger, male-dominated sectors like those Gamergate freaks. (Making it worse, many of the feminist women they obscenely harass actually can be way over-the-top in their identity politics.)
I agree with all of that, Mona.
I would only emphasize, again, that identity politics, while perfectly understandable, is deeply flawed and plays right into the hands of right-wing demagogues and the ruling elites.
It would be silly to claim good ole’ sexism/misogyny didn’t play a part.
What’s needed is simply equal opportunities for women in politics. Imagine if half of the +/- 19 hopefuls for the nominations had been women! Instead there were 2 and 1 of these cheated.
Uneducated white women. (you forgot that part)
All white women.
And your dismissive condescension to those whom you consider “uneducated” — meaning they may not have acquired the college-issued work permits so valued by the dutiful followers of the elites — is one of the very good reasons that the corrupt minion of the elites and whore for Wall Street just got her establishment butt kicked by a reality TV demagogue.
Some people are very slow learners.
For god’s sake, that wasn’t “identity politics.” It was an acknowledgment that sexism exists and is influential. Your antipathy to this acknowledgment is duly noted, though.
“did you notice that Trump led among white women?” Oh, I see, that proves that sexism played no role in the election. Thanks for the correction.
Oh, grow up.
The tired narrative that people have been trying to force on this election that a vote for Trump is a vote for Male White Power needs to stop. As we watched the death of journalism in America while it parroted the DNC/GOP sentiments is repugnant. People once the DNC and GOP and journalism as a whole had their public meltdowns and tantrums, it became easier for the people to ignore such obvious, desperation and hubris. If the people felt that HRC was a candidate with their interests in mind the votes would have followed. They brought Trump on themselves, and they are still trying to frame his victory as racist bigoted and a result of uninformed voters. Keep telling yourselves that. Everyone who voted with their conscience is out of their reach now and that frightens them.
“The tired narrative that people have been trying to force on this election that a vote for Trump is a vote for Male White Power needs to stop.”
I agree. You don’t think that’s what I posted, do you?
The problem is that the “tired narrative” is the undeniable truth *of the Trump campaign*. Not the people who voted for Trump. Why is the distinction so difficult to grasp? Failure to grasp it means being blind to Trump’s message.
Unless the failure is a deliberate refusal. That deserves to be roundly condemned in no uncertain words. Period.
Observing this simple truth has nothing to do with the Clintonites any more than it has to do with the KKK.
Obama won despite a long existing but smoldering racism. Once DJT showed open “politically incorrect” racism, xenophobism and misogyny, it did embolden large swaths of white voters to bring out what had long festered. Not the only issue, but it greatly contributed to a unification of the disgruntled.
Ok. Best analysis I’ve read so far.
Thanks you, Glenn Greenwald!
Scary that someone like Trump could even win the nomination. And amazing that the Democrats actually thought Clinton could make good candidate.
Of course, they’ll never admit it. Americans love the establishment, right?
Lawrence Lessig, noted racist, misogynist, FBI hat-holder and Putin horse-groomer. (h/t rrheard)
https://medium.com/equal-citizens/democrats-free-at-last-6e3ac6b6701#.pwziba2sv
Yeah, we should definitely support the party of the Drone Ranger, the guy who let the insurance companies write the ironically-named “Affordable Care Act,” the president whose administration fomented a coup in Ukraine and is, even as I type, dispatching the largest force of Western troops to the Russian border (at the exact places from which Hitler launched Operation Barbarossa) since WWII. Yeah, let’s celebrate that guy’s party.
Please. Gag me with a big fucking spoon.
Yep. “Michelle for Prez!” That ought to do it. ROFLOL.
Is our childern learning?
They am.
Given tendencies here to assume that someone posting a given article is in support of every item within – no matter the many well-known express opinions to the contrary – I probably should have specified the individual bits I agreed with. I don’t think the Democratic party can be, nor should be, resurrected. It should be taken to the woodshed, executed with many well-placed bullets then drowned in a vast vat of it’s own shit.
I thought it would be obvious which parts were most applicable within the framework delineated by rrheard’s prior, related, comments. Since it wasn’t, let me help you with that spoon I never intended for you to ingest. :-s
Better now? ;-}
Oh, I’m fine with you, as usual, Pedinska but, yes, you probably should have quoted or specified the points in Lessig’s piece you wanted to emphasize — especially given the bizarro world implications of the snippet I quoted.
Ron has a bunch of posts, with lotsa links, in this thread and, much as I admire him and try to pay close attention to his posts, I don’t always get to all of them immediately.
Nevertheless, I’m still gagging on the homage to the Drone Ranger.
You have to hand it to him though. He never thought he’d be so good a killing.
Oh Pedinska, did you see that vomitrocious tweet from Jill Filipovic a day or two before the election? Slightly paraphrasing from memory:
Yes I saw that and laughed long and hard at what was, quite obviously, Filipovic indulging her latest and, perhaps, most dearly held wet dream.
First, does anyone know why for some of us the “reply” function isn’t working?
Second, @ Milton
I don’t deny that the people who voted for Trump, and Trump are responsible for Trump winning the election. That’s how it works–people vote, the votes are tallied, those votes translate to electoral votes, and voila the candidate with the most electoral votes–wins.
But you’re missing the point of my argument and Glenn’s–that some subset of voters who voted for Trump, and who previously voted for Pres. Obama, weren’t given an alternative that appealed to them (for whatever reason–if you want to believe racism, misogyny, Dir. Comey or a Putin conspiracy then believe what you want, it’s a relatively free country as of today–but I and many others don’t).
And that’s on the DNC, Hillary Clinton (and all her surrogates), and all the nominal “liberal” primary voters who knowingly voted for a very flawed candidate knowing her flaws would be exploited, that she represented precisely the “establishment” that was deeply loathed (rationally and irrationally, but hey that’s human beings) by a wide cross-section of America, and then ran a horribly flawed campaign.
Either recognize that or don’t, but the simple fact of the matter is the nominal “democratic party” braintrust is going to have to grapple with the real world reality that if you can’t turn out people in sufficient numbers to vote for your candidate (because right or wrong people don’t like or trust that candidate), then you probably shouldn’t blame that on the voters but rather look in the mirror and reassess your operating plan and premises.
I wonder if the social democrats in pre-war Germany said something similar during Kristallnacht.
Here is your “real world reality.”
You get democracy or you get dictatorship.
Now it’s a binary choice.
Trump apologists and appeasers should recognize the immense consequences of this election.
Maybe they do. As the above link demonstrates, some already get exactly the magnitude of the change Tuesday brought.
A PawPawism: “Sometimes you should just shut up, and let the other guy be wrong; because, no matter what you say, he will stay that way.” Now is the time for action. Finger pointing, excuse the pun, is pointless at this juncture.
Although Mr. Greenwald’s arguments have much validity, the democratic party and the “elites” as everyone likes to reference “non Trump voters” did not get decimated on Tuesday. There is a significant problem over simplifying this as a turn against “elites”. Here are the US popular vote totals:
Hilary Clinton (D) 59,938,290
Donald Trump (R) 59,704,886
The US does not currently use a majority voting system to elect the president, like most other Western democracies. If we did, Hilary Clinton would the President-elect of the United States.
Due to an anachronistic element of the US Constitution the United States uses an out of date system termed the “Electoral College” which proportionally awards “electoral votes” based on population and other factors to each state. There are a lot of reasons for why the system was created this way 240 years ago, but the net of this is for today’s political situation in the US, it can have the effect of delivering the White House to a minority of voters as has just occurred for Mr. Trump. The last time this occurred was in 2000 when Al Gore beat George W. Bush.
I am not arguing with Mr. Greenwald’s correct conclusion that there is significant economic disparity in the US and that substantially helped fuel a major turnout of voters to support Mr. Trump, it did. But to conclude that “That racism, misogyny, and xenophobia are pervasive in all sectors of America is indisputable from even a casual glance at its history, both distant and recent.” is a primary and driving factor is flat wrong. It had a significant supporting role but the real root of this problem, which Mr. Greenwald failed to discuss, was the role of technology, specifically social media, combined with a penchant for an embracing of alternative news sources with nefarious intent (e.g. Breitbart, Fox News, etc…) to deliver falsehoods and allow Mr. Trump to make claims about Ms. Clinton, the system we use to elect the president, etc…to influence the (R) segment of the voting population and it’s thinking. In the United States (I cannot make this claim about Brexit) the influence of this cannot be overstated. It would behoove Mr. Greenwald, and other journalists like him, to look at this more closely, report more on this, and ensure the media plays an appropriate role in highlighting truth to power, versus letting ratings drive the national narrative (which has real and global consequences).
I am not saying that there are not significant economic and societal problems that the (R) group is facing that drove their turnout Tuesday evening. But, when a majority of the United States voted for Ms. Clinton and she still lost due to the reasons noted above, it’s not just about “elites”. More than half of the United States does not agree with Mr. Trump or what he stands for.
I am one of the 59,938,290 people majority that voted for Ms. Clinton and I am hardly an “elite”.
I hope you realize that not all the votes have been counted yet. In fact, there are three states that haven’t yet been called. Also, the absentee military votes haven’t been counted yet from what I’ve read.
So don’t count your chickens before they’re hatched.
These are troubling times, these are not times to shrink from an accurate understanding of the circumstances and conditions faced by the global community of mankind.
For this and other reasons it is imperative to properly characterize Snowden, the “Snowden Project” and the Intercept as an outgrowth of the project.
The Intercept is a status quo, Neoliberal news outlet.
Snowden made a terrible mistake before he did his deed, he decided he would hand over public property, his archive, to a tiny group of rich white men (lily white Laura Poidras [haveing sense distanced herself from the Intercept] being the female exception. In so doing he also NEVER CONSIDERED concepts of public ownership of public property paid for by taxes, NEVER CONSIDERED the concept of community and shared power or ownership, NEVER CONSIDERED inclusion or community or society or culture – he decided that – yet again – the best way to proceed is to create a tiny group of super elite “journalists” who would have knowledge that they would not share with anyone else, that whatever was shared was don so on the diktat of rich (even richer now) white men. Funny, how that is so similar to the NYT or WaPo is it not? Snowden was WRONG. The Snowden project (now moribund) as dictated by Snowden is a Neoliberal project which does NOT represent opposition to the Neoliberal dominate paradigm. It fully supports the fundamental ideological positions of Neoliberalism.
For example, any time anyone brings up the elite white man make up of the Snowden delegates or suggests anything which might be inclusive or suggest community participation those arguments are met with the Margaret Thatcher popularized and which has been successful in support of Neoliberal power (think Greece) THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE. That is what Greece was told and now they have no democracy. That is what Snowden and his elite white rich delegates say every time. Only they can have the full knowledge of the archive only they know what is best.
Further, Neoliberal fundamentalism is promoted and carried forward by the Snowden Project/Intercept by its total rejection of anything collective, community oriented, inclusive or beneficial to society as a whole.
The Intercept relies on one and only one source of funding that is a multi-billionaire oligarch who day in and day out steals our privacy and collects date on our personal liver, cheats (legal of course – it always is) on taxes to the extent that his company paid about a million dollars in the US on revenue of over a billion. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/08/ebay-pays-11m-uk-tax-on-revenues-it-told-us-investors-were-11bn The owner and funder of this website does so because it serves his interests to have “truth tellers” inside the Neoliberal tent. Yes, yes, yes there is iron clad editorial independence and it is that editorial freedom which serves his interests most.
This website promotes and supports Neoliberal ideology and is fully integrated in the Neoliberal power structure. There are no articles here about oligarchs and their tax evasion, no articles about the “trade” deals which will serve to benefit its funder. No articles about Neoliberal oppression of the very concepts of community, inclusion, society and the rest. This website works on the Thatcher principal “Society doesn’t exist.”
Just look at the article recently published “Donald Trump Will Be President. This is What We Do Next.”
There is not a word about organizing into groups or forming movements or in any way acting communally. It’s all about each separate individual “doing something” anything but organizing opposition to the Neoliberal power structure. The site also promotes communicating over “social media” what a disgrace. What if we just go to the military and see if we can use some tanks and ships and airplanes so we can use them against their interests? They might say sure but we are going to keep close track on you and if you offer up any threat (we let you use the ships but no ammunition) we will step in and crush you. The internet for the Neoliberal power structure which owns and operates it is THEIRS it an instrument of power and control over hoi polloi its not a fun game or a good place to watch movies.
This Neoliberal corporate website is no different from any other Neoliberal corporate media outlet.
Especially – its owner and editorial board and Snowden himself are fallible human beings they do not contain super human integrity or truthfulness and most of all they do not have THE TRUTH.
Their judgements of what to publish – especially regarding the Snowden archive – are the judgements of rich (much richer now) white elites Neoliberal/Libertarians who try to impose absolutes where none exist – especially when it comes to their own demand that their integrity is absolute and beyond reproach by mere mortals.
I. F. Stone would vomit.
This entire project from beginning to now would be a text book example of how a dominate paradigm expands and reaches out to its opposition and incorporates into itslef and builds its strength and power by adding its useful features to itself except Snowden and his delegates were not duped or tricked an any way they sought out a method of getting back inside the tent – they wanted to be part of the elite power structure and they succeeded.
Nope. But you’re definitely a very verbose idiot.
What?
This is irrelevant and wrong. You sound like a stupid bot.
To understand you a little better, I’d perhaps like to know what you mean by “Neoliberal” in this context — for example, which major news outlets now are not “Neoliberal” (as you describe)? And how might a current news outlet validly described as Neoliberal change so they are not? Thnx.
Frankly I can’t think of a “major” news outlet (US) which is not part of the Neoliberal paradigm. There are any number of quite good community supported news and analysis sites on the internet, but “major” they are not. To “not be Neoliberal” is a hard question to answer but taking money from and supporting the interests of tax cheating, privacy stealing multi-billionaires and thus harming the community at large far far greater than it helps it would be a start.
All I ever get here is – these particular rich elite white men are just so so much better than the other rich white men – can and have done no wrong they are perfect beyond human capacity and should have all the knowledge and secrets of the Snowden archive exclusively because THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE.
I decline to join that religion.
Thanks, that makes more sense. I was thinking more along the lines of globalist trade policies, but your meaning implies collusion. More like a cartel.
Pure cartels are relatively easy to bust, as they get sloppier as they get bigger (in a punctuated manner). Perhaps cartel interaction is hidden behind multiple contradictory inverse SPIN networks, acting like a set of “blind porticos”. Food for thought.
Here’s one as predictable as day following night–the All Mighty All Powerful Glenn Greenwald Is Why Hillary Clinton Lost:
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2016/11/the-business-weve-chosen#comments
I liked this article. Well-wrtten and informative. I summarily agreed with the first half. Here is my contribution:
#1 Democrats turned out to vote. Hillary won the popular vote by an overwhelming landslide, possibly unprecedented, of over a million votes.
#2 it is my exclusively-informed opinion that Trump was pivotal in establishing the precedents which were subsequently used to establish the Enron pyramid, the adjustable mortgage crisis and cultivate the corporate crises enabling and inciting various acts of war against the United States including 9-11.
While I personally doubt that he was directly involved, being a holistically-inclined causal analyst, it is the responsibility of patriots to have a longer memory than their government and their media. Patriots like the men who interrogated someone in the middle of a crowd of shocked bystanders while choking on the dust of the Twin Towers, resulting in a ban on extraordinary rendition faster than the ban on Anthrax in the mail (lib.). The ban on rendition is the military “elbow room” for Benghazi – an unnecessary excuse, in light of the remote security which had to be disabled, ignored or simply didn’t belong to us.
graphics are available upon request.
Thank you Glenn.
From my perspective, the truth of what happened on 11/08/16 is summed up in this article, the one from Naomi Klein, and the one from Thomas Frank — https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/donald-trump-white-house-hillary-clinton-liberals
Finally, somebody gets it! Thank you, Glenn, for discussing what the mainstream media doesn’t want to admit: That Trump’s ascension (as well as Bernie Sanders) is really an indictment of globalization and failed neoliberal economic policies….
If DJT is successful at anything it is saying what he needs to, to achieve a goal.
That goal was to be President of the United States of America.
Rhetoric is not policy, except for white liberalistic intellectuals with no skin in the game.
When a population feels overwhelmed they hire a Boss to take care of die Probleme, not a Priest.
IF the arctic ocean is ice free next summer, instead of in 100 years as predicted, non-of this matters. You’ll have 10-20 years before major crop failures, food ecosystem collapses start to make “real change”.
What’s in your fridge?
Did your t-shirt travel more than you did?
NO WELFARE FOR COWS!!!
When the American “people” cheer for the napalming of Vietnamese villages, bar children from attending segregated schools, hurl rocks at immigrants and attend Trump rallies shouting “Kill the niggers! Kill the Muslims” we can never point to the fact that they are disease-carrying rodents who crawled out of the sewer. Rather, we must ascribe noble motives to their actions regardless of how vile and monstrously destructive. Otherwise, we’re being “arrogant elites.”
You’re not part of an arrogant elite; you’re just a sick puppy whose vile, hateful bigotry is as ugly as that espoused by the worst of the hatemongers at Stromfront or a Klan rally.
That’s very hurtful. Here’s a thought: Fuck off. Take your Nazis with you.
A very confused sick puppy.
Just read of your repulsive tactics. You seem to make friends and influence people wherever you go, eh Douggie?
“In brief, the site was shut down on April 15 by Doug Salzmann, one of the five Admins. Salzmann was not the owner of OffGuardian, nor anyone’s employer there. The site had been created equally by all five of the Admins, and we had all invested time and effort – and in some cases money – into its construction and content. The only thing unique about Salzmann was that he had purchased the domain name – for communal use. In fact, he was at the time these events unfolded, supposed to be in the throes of transferring the domain to a shared status. His sudden assumption of “authority” as described below was therefore baseless and extraordinary. His motives in using that spurious “authority” to shut down what was a thriving resource for alternative news and opinion can only be guessed at.
Given the tendentiously self-serving text* posted online for over 24 hours by Salzmann, in which he impugned our editorial and journalistic ethics and our integrity as individuals, we feel we owe it to our readers as well as to ourselves to present here a brief, factual account of the events, so that our readers can make up their own minds.
*We note Salzmann removed his statement from the old OffG site as soon as he was made aware of our intention to respond. We consider this a tacit acknowledgment of the insupportable nature of his allegations. Nevertheless we are proceeding with a full rebuttal for the record, which will appear in due course.”
Everyone who needs to know the truth knows that It was the folks who published that screed who shut down the site.
They did it in a fit of pique over the fact that I would not permit them to publish fundamentally dishonest articles, accompanied by sensational photos that were totally unrelated to the articles and served to inflame rather than to inform.
I permitted them to acquire the domain once I, along with the only professional journalist on the editorial team, had disassociated ourselves from the site.
I did impugn their ethics and integrity, which were sorely deficient, to say the least.
Are we having a little shit fit because our vile and hateful bigotry is being called out, rykart?
“Salzmann, however, would not enter into any specific discussion about his alleged problems with the group’s “atrocious journalism”, or make any suggestions for improvement. He merely reiterated his original objections to the “offending” post – even though it was no longer on the site, and repeated his claims that the other four Admins were not “ethical” or “honest” enough to be trusted. In the course of those 24 hours, he tried to get Vaska to align with him to besmirch Via Optima, to ban BlackCatte from the site, and to in effect “take over” with her as his intermediary — an attempt that backfired as Vaska refused to play the game and quietly, repeatedly insisted on focusing on the preservation of the project we had created in common. While refusing to explain his intentions or aims, Salzmann maintained a posture of hostility and confrontation, which became contradictory to the point of incoherence. He began using his position as domain-holder as a basis for blackmail – issuing abusive emails and threats to “terminate” the site if we failed to meet vague and unspecified demands. At one moment he would insist someone take over the domain immediately, at another he would change his mind and claim none of us could be trusted with “his” site and his “reputation” and threaten to shut down OffG completely, or “ban” individual Admins.”
Sounds an awful lot like the mini-Saddam douchebag I’ve had the misfortune of interacting with here.
For those interested, they can get chapter and verse on your megalomaniacal perversions:
http://bit.ly/2fFn7O3
I’m afraid I’ve wasted enough time on you.
“I’m afraid I’ve wasted enough time”
You cyber-stalked someone who called out your stereotyping and abusive behavior, then tried to explain that you are taking ONE SIDE’S explanation of ONE event as gospel truth in an effort to attack and demean someone you have decided you don’t like in the most horrifyingly nasty and vile way possible?
I HOPE you’re done. You have done nothing to make yourself look good here.
Your opinion is pretty worthless and if you want to continue making idiotic excuses for the Trump filth, go right ahead.
You’d have an easier time defending Mengele.
I grew up in the rust belt and saw all the factories close and the jobs go to China. And that was in the past 15 years. This isn’t all about Bush starting a war in Iraq, this is about OUR LIVES and the POLICIES that the establishment has destroyed us with!!! Why can’t people understand that? Why is it so hard to see? Have you ever been to Akron? Youngstown? Erie? Flint? This is about watching our leaders hand out billions of our dollars to the rest of the world, refusing to protect us from the drug cartels on the border — and then telling us to shut up and buy some $1000/month healthcare that we can’t afford!
I know tons of Trump voters — tons. and the supposed “Racism” is transient — when you have no hope, and you are being oppressed, you lash out and scapegoat the people you think are being given preferential treatment!
The BLM people do it, the Trump voters do it — hello, welcome to reality.
So is Naomi Klein a racist, a misogynist, in league with the FBI or a secret agent of Putin . . . for writing this column? Clinton voters pick your excuse and then defend it as to each person.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/rise-of-the-davos-class-sealed-americas-fate
Like Greenwald she is blaming the victim. One of the victims. This also blames one of the few politicians willing to stand against the malicious rightwing subversion that introduced us wonderfully novel concepts like “swiftboating,” “rendition,” “enemy combatant,” and “waterboarding”
Here is her first wretched paragraph blaming Clinton for Trump:
Clinton is not responsible for Trump.
Trump and the Republicans are responsible for Trump.
How dense must you be to not see this??
Trump and the Republicans are responsible for Trump.
I agree. Which is why I wonder about the wisdom of the Clinton team consciously de-emphasizing that during the election.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/293428-leaked-emails-show-dem-split-on-linking-trump-to-gop
How dense must you be to not see this??
Well, at least as dense as the people running her campaign that were trying to forge cross-party alliances and, in the process, sacrificing their own candidates down-ballot. :-s
I appreciate you thoughtful response.
I cannot comment on the Wikileaks material for at least two reasons.
1. Authority, authorship, and origination are suspect with all the leaked emails. I don’t peek in windows, take snapshots, and then selectively publish those snapshots as true during a political campaign. Especially if I claim to be an ally of the photographer’s subject. Maybe that’s just me.
2. During the debate, Chris Wallace (IIRC) gave a quote by Clinton about open borders. Clinton replied that Wallace did not read the entire quote. Besides the problems with chain of custody, motivations, and selectivity in #1, you must imagine that the context of these emails can be distorted. Why should anyone be surprised or dismayed that the Clinton advisers were concerned with post-election issues?
Furthermore, given these concerns, why does GG ignore them in his post-election analysis? Sure, coach could have done this or that, but after every losing election, players and public will second guess. I doubt Clinton and her advisers were trying to lose. Why does GG omit something which is an issue of significance and indisputable history? (My answer? Because he has a political axe to grind. )
Finally, so what if knowledgeable people exchange ideas in presumed confidence? That shows noting more than a democratic system encouraging competing ideas rather than an authoritarian organization imposing ideas.
Blame Trump.
SMH
1. Authority, authorship, and origination are suspect with all the leaked emails.
Has Podesta, or anyone linked to these emails asserted that the content is incorrect and/or not authored by them? Snapshots are all we ever get with these people. Did you object to the snapshots published by Manning? I sure as hell didn’t. I want to know whom I am voting for, warts, pimples and all because these people were the ones who were in line to exercise all the Bush admin powers that Obama spent 8 years perfecting and defending. And their mistakes in all of that now mean that Trump (FFS!) will walk away with the powers that everyone was so complacent about while Obama’s hand was on the wheel.
Why should anyone be surprised or dismayed that the Clinton advisers were concerned with post-election issues?
I am not sure what about the quoted email above is a post-election issue. Apologies if I’ve missed something obvious, but it seems to have had everything to do with a strategy that the Clinton’s demonstrably employed during the election. They just did. They literally trumpeted endorsements of various Republicans, willfully separating them from the consequences of their past actions and strategies, as if endorsing her were something to be proud of, something that erased all those past sins you so rightly noted. That quite possibly impacted control of the House and the Senate. It most certainly cost them among their own long term constituencies. Why on earth would they do that?
Combined with the tardiness of their support of down-ballot candidates – “support” that only really emerged in the last week prior to voting – the only reason I can think of is that they chose her success over success for the party at large. It is entirely appropriate to side-eye that sort of action as it casts suspicion on every avowal she made on behalf of the rest of us. It made her look like she was throwing over every single democratic constituency and/or down-ballot candidacy for the sake of an expediency that would never yield her anything once the election was finished. It made her look opportunistic and grasping, not to mention more than a little desperate.
I can and do blame Trump for his own multitudinous faults and ugliness. But I’m not going to fool myself into thinking that any of that nastiness absolves Clinton’s many follies. I am capable of more than binary thinking. That’s a lesson we should have all learned far too long ago because this binary crap isn’t getting us anywhere. This election was a rejection of that binariness at the most basic political levels possible. Parties ignoring that lesson will pay – hell, are ALREADY paying – a very, very costly price. And the public at large, will likely end up paying the most.
Of course it’s not serving “us.”
That’s not a flaw, that’s the design. You get coke or pepsi, exxon or BP, Democrat or Republican. That’s the whole point.
But as you drag out these wikileaks, let me ask you one question. Could whomever hacked the DNC have also hacked Trump’s income tax returns?
Why didn’t they?
There’s a piling on here.
I voted against Clinton (for Sanders in the primaries.) I wrote some strong anti-Clinton posts pre-echoing many of the issues GG raises. This was the Guardian back in the summer. I spent hours defending myself from HRC supporters. (f anyone has the time or interest, they can certainly go back and check those posts. I was originally conflicted until I realized I had to make a choice — Clinton or Trump.
Simple eh? I chose Clinton without hesitation, even proudly.
There’s a piling on here that is both unfair and does a disservice to a woman who has endured decades of foul and treacherous accusations and innuendos by Republicans seeking political advantage. Trump is reaping those rewards.
It also previews the next few years when the weakest and most exploitable will need the defense of those willing to oppose the nastiness that is inevitable.
Someone (I’m looking at the so-called progressives) should praise rather than bury her. She alone faced this shitstorm of subversion and yet now — after she loses — you people pile on.
I admire her and I thank her. And for what we’re about to receive, I blame the treacherous political establishment — including the chattering commentariat — who blame her for standing up to these incipient fascists and serial liars.
She wan’t ideologically pure enough. Well, sure.
But I refuse to join the lynch mob that now makes her an enemy of the people. From here on, the monster is as it ever was, now strengthened and hungry for more.
Trump now has enormous power, far more than a week ago.
Name your enemy.
It’s not Clinton.
The authority, authorship, and origination – as well as content – can be confirmed using the DKIM signature in the messages.
That’s why none of the people involved* stood up and cried “foul” – they know they’re real.
I think you are deliberately avoiding the point. The republicans are responsible for Trump, but the Democrats are the ones who are responsible for him winning by fielding such an unpopular candidate.
She;s responsible for Trump in more than one way
Obviously another Putin fabricated email, amiright?
“Clinton is not responsible for Trump.
Trump and the Republicans are responsible for Trump.
How dense must you be to not see this??”
This says it all:
Yet a ham sandwich did not beat Donald Trump.
Neither did all the president’s men and all the president’s words.
That should tell you something.
But if you don’t want to listen, that’s not my problem.
The memo, which was addressed to the Democratic National Committee, outlined “the strategy and goals a potential Hillary Clinton presidential campaign would have regarding the 2016 Republican presidential field.”
The document stated, “Clearly most of what is contained in this memo is work the DNC is already doing. This exercise is intended to put those ideas to paper.”
It continued, “Our hope is that the goal of a potential HRC campaign and the DNC would be one-in-the-same: to make whomever the Republicans nominate unpalatable to a majority of the electorate.”
The memo articulated a three-point strategy. Point 1 called for forcing “all Republican candidates to lock themselves into extreme conservative positions that will hurt them in a general election.”
At the time, there were more than a dozen Republican presidential candidates. The “variety of candidates is a positive here,” the Clinton campaign said.
“Many of the lesser known can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right,” the memo noted.
“In this scenario, we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more ‘Pied Piper’ candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party,” the Clinton campaign wrote.
As examples of these “pied piper” candidates, the memo named Donald Trump — as well as Sen. Ted Cruz and Ben Carson).
“We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to them seriously,” the Clinton campaign concluded.
So is Prof. Robert Reich a racist, a misogynist, in league with the FBI or a secret agent of Putin . . . for writing this column? Clinton voters pick your excuse and then defend it as to each person.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/democrats-working-class-americans-us-election
So is Gary Younge a racist, a misogynist, in league with the FBI or a secret agent of Putin . . . for writing this column? Clinton voters pick your excuse and then defend it as to each person.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/electing-donald-trump-democracy-us-politics
Congratulations for finding some reasonable writing in the modern sea of garbage on the pages of The Guardian. Read it since 1957 but no more.
Brexit (I live in a remain heavy area of Scotland,) was a mess. While the leave vote per say isn’t what got me angry, it was the fact that the leave vote was based heavily on flat out lies that were proven to be incorrect and deceptive. Severe falsehoods used to trick the people and rile up hatred. Lies about the EU that were 100% false but could not be argued against because of how vocal, angry and vicious the leave campaign was. Posters of immigrants in lines use to instill fear in people. Deceptive slogans on buses and posters which after the leave vote won were confessed to be lies. When an entire section of the population were told that all experts were liars (academics, businessmen, bankers, doctors, nurses, scientists, engineers, etc) and not to listen to any ‘facts’ they may provide, how does one counter this? It was a campaign of intentional misinformation and deception on a grand scale.
While the overall reason for the rise of Brexit and Trump may be the same, how the came about were very different.
When is The Intercept going to discuss the throwing of a Presidential election by the FBI?
Clinton enjoyed a double digit lead with just 11 days to election.
Comey and the alt-right FBI hurled a bomb into the procession… and turned this election around.
Still, Clinton won the popular vote.
And no one is discussing the FBI’s actions.
pathetic and deeply troubling
I’m sure more than one writer here would love to write about that, if there were evidence that it happened. Go find out if there are exit polls suggesting that it did and get back to us.
“Go find out if there are exit polls suggesting that it did and get back to us.”
It says something about the poor state of logical rhetoric in the “acceptable political climate” that I didn’t even see anything unusual about this statement the first time I read it. Even now, I’m still uncertain if you’re being sarcastic or not.
Doug… you smug asshole… go eat a pile of shit
How James Comey Hurt the FBI—and the Democratic Process
The FBI director’s decision to disclose an inquiry into Hillary Clinton’s emails that led nowhere may have has irrevocably altered the results of the 2016 balloting.
Details of investigations are kept secret precisely to protect the reputations of those being investigated, so that their good names are not enveloped in a cloud of suspicion, and so that the Bureau itself does not become a political tool to be manipulated by partisans to their benefit.
Manipulate they did.
House Republicans asserted that the FBI investigation into Clinton had been “reopened,” and began discussing potential impeachment before the results of the election are even known.
Erroneous reports on Fox News suggested an indictment of Clinton was imminent.
Donald Trump, spent the following week loudly declaring that “this is bigger than Watergate.”
…much of the reporting following Comey’s original letter suggests that some number of agents within the FBI are eagerly trying to swing the election to Trump.
An FBI agent told The Guardian that Clinton is “the antichrist personified to a large swath of FBI personnel,” and that “the reason why” Bureau agents had been “leaking is they’re pro-Trump.”
Reuters reported that “a faction of investigators” based in the FBI’s New York Office “is known to be hostile to Hillary Clinton.” Trump surrogate and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani told Fox News that he had advance notice of Comey’s decision, saying “You’re darn right I heard about it, and I can’t even repeat the language that I heard from the former FBI agents.”
But the damage has been done, and the results are exactly as one might expect: Trump gained support for his assertions that Clinton is an unindicted criminal, the prospects of down-ballot Democrats suffered since the letter came out, and the GOP now holds both chambers of Congress and has won the White House.
The FBI is meant to protect the democratic process, not use its powers to manipulate it.
While leaks are an important part of the public’s ability to scrutinize government, elections cannot be free and fair if those in intelligence agencies use the information they gather to damage politicians they don’t like and assist those they do. Doing so is not simply a violation of the Justice Department’s ethical guidelines, it is an abuse of power.
excerpts: Adam Serwer, The Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/the-damage-comey-and-the-fbi-did-is-irreparable/506792/
I don’t know if the election was ‘thrown’ but, yeah, it and WL made the difference. I know it’s seen as unbelievably ignorant to say this but it’s obv, isn’t it? Trump won by a whisker. The FBI thing hurled at the last minute turned the spotlight on Clinton and away from Trump and gave Trump that narrow victory. But you will not find anyone here who will agree with you.
You also won’t find people here admitting that it wasn’t the poor and downtrodden who voted for Trump. They voted for Clinton. Trump was supported by people earning more than the $56,000 median income. Clinton won 52:41 among voters earning less than $50,000 a year, according to exit polls. Mr Trump won narrowly among all income groups above that.
I agree — I’d like to see more reporting.
To me, it looked like the Atny General and other executive officials were exerting influence to STOP the FBI from advancing with their case against Clinton, and Comey, who as head of the FBI was tasked with enforcing the embargo, was subject to increasing objection and pressure from the rank-and-file FBI who felt an indictment was deserved regardless of politics. He allowed the letter, Obama squashed any follow-up from him, and the cap was put back on matter until after the election.
Two false notes from the current reporting: the supposed faction within the FBI is always referred to as “pro-Trump”, and never as “anti-Hillary”, and the claim that Comey’s second letter “exonerated” Hillary with regard to “recent emails”, when in fact it only reaffirmed the previous status quo.
Obama quashed any follow-up… he didn’t squash it.
Obama didn’t sqaush the follow-up, he quashed it.
Thanks; been saying that for years (blush).
Interesting point: when the faction in the FBI is referred to as “pro-Trump”, that automatically places their motivations on a political axis, biasing the reader to avoid considering that they may be motivated by anti-corruption ideals and their interpretation of the facts. A minor shift of tone, but one that stands out to me as quite likely deliberate.
“It goes without saying that Trump is a sociopath….”? And why does it go without saying when you feel a compulsion to say it? Is this a clinical observation? Don’t take me wrong, I think anyone who wants to occupy that office is probably unhinged in some way, but I stay away from diagnosis. Let me suggest the same to you. An otherwise great article.
Fantastic analysis! The deepest I have read so far.
Brilliant. There is nothing to say after that.
The establishment, in cahoot with the corrupt media, called Trump voters racists, xenophobes, and misogynists (women-haters). Hillary Clinton called Trump voters “a basket of deplorables.” They really meant it.
Americans must not forget.
http://www.east-west-dichotomy.com/us-cultural-revolution/
Bravo. Now take it the next step and acknowledge that a new political party was just formed.
The Great Parties have been mutilated and are now broadly nonviable: Democratic establishment complacency at the revelation of their fatally corruptible internal party machinery, the vapidity of Republican intelligentsia lacking any principled reaction to the Trump whirlwind.
Both bases cloven, paths returning to party unity have closed. Public reaction now is an unpleasant evocation of hopelessness, smouldering desperation that’s been held for years, and shock, propelled by unspent rhetorical fuel reserves of the election cycle. Already offense is being shared at possible shape of the President-elect’s environmental policy.
If we measure now how the public choose to allow one another to carry their hope in their ideals, by what impulse their contain their despair, and the forms they allow it expressed, we will see drawn the outline of the shape of things to come.
Does anyone remember what Al Gore did after the 2000 vote?
Does anyone care?
He has disappeared for the last 17 years, mostly.
Does anyone remember 9/11, the invasion of Iraq, the use of torture, the suspension of habeas corpus, the establishment of a vague criminal category called “enemy combatant” or the collapse of unregulated financial entities like Lehman brother and the consequent near-world-wide depression??
No?
All forgotten because elitist Al Gore wore earth tones?
By January Hillary Clinton will be out of the news, the Republican legislator will issue the “Facillitating Act” and our august commentators (who will not disappear as completely as the Clintons) will explain that it’s the Mexicans own fault for sending us their criminals and their rapists … and, I suppose, the arctic’s own fault for melting.
Trump’s lapdogs will jump up and down exclaiming, “toldya, toldya, toldya, toldya, toldya …” as the United States of America declares war on a religion of more than one and a half billion people.
And the elite will still be working the stock market, bribing Congress and exploiting the poor.
As for me, I won’t yap “toldya” because what good will it do?
Enjoy your Trumpworld, little fascists.
You deserve it.
This is exactly the same despair that I imagine would have been evoked by Obama losing in 2008.
Quote for truth: “Does anyone remember 9/11, the invasion of Iraq, the use of torture, the suspension of habeas corpus, the establishment of a vague criminal category called “enemy combatant” or the collapse of unregulated financial entities like Lehman brother and the consequent near-world-wide depression??”
“Member Obama ’08?”
“Yea, I ‘member!”
I ‘member too!
You don’t remember. You imagine but you don’t remember because it didn’t happen.
Do you remember (are you old enough to remember) the Nixon campaign colluding with the South Vietnamese to prevent peace talks in 1968?
Do you remember when Reagan negotiated with the Iranians to keep the US hostages in captivity? Do you remember when the Reagan team by-passed Congress and colluded with the Iranians to wage a bloody war in Central America? Do you remember Florida Republicans purging over a hundred thousand voters from the voting rolls prior to the 2000 election?
Do you remember 9/11, torture policies, indefinite detentions, invasion of Iraq and various other outrages between 2000 and 2008? Do you remember the financial collapse in 2008? Do you remember “swiftboaters for truth” turning Kerry into a coward and a murderer?
Do you remember any of this shit?
So why do you blame one of the few public figures willing to stand against this indisputable history of malice, underhandedness and unconstitutionality?
Because she gave a speech to Goldman Sachs? Because she tried to keep her personal and her professional emails separate? Because in the chaos that followed the demise of Kaddaffi four people died??
You might as well blame Jean Valjean for provoking Javert or George Washington for the mad king George.
Let me say it again because I just read another chic bit of misplacement by Naomi Klein over at the Guardian.
No matter what you think of her trade policies or her coziness with the financial elite, she wasn’t bragging about grabbing pussies, extolling the virtues of torture, promising reprisal killings or slandering judges for their heritage.
How exasperating!
Interesting; I agree with about the importance of not allowing your list of what I’m going to call “issues evoking a sense of festering unfairness” to fall into the media memory-hole. Heartfelt concerns deserve the opportunity to be heard and create change.
Many people saw Obama in ’08 as a standard-bearer for such causes, saw him as promising change from this hope: politics change driven from the genuine concerns of the people, not political stake-holders.
As the actual actions and doctrine of the Obama administration unfolded and evolved, my hope of a larger political party that could synthesize the better future indicated as necessary by the aforementioned issues faded. For me, it was looking “forward not back”, drone strikes, Gitmo purgatory, fomentation of war, etc. — more important that the specific issues important to me was the realization of debasement of hope, which I feel was a much broader factor feeding into growing political discontent.
It was a discontented feeling, that our hopes and ourselves had been exactly measured, fit via linear regression into a complex political opinion model, and exact targeting effected potent political spin and movement, devoid of care for reality or truth. False food to tease our minds and instincts to socialize, locking us into predictable cravings but never satiating with actual leadership or change. Obama’s election was undoubtedly a great step forward towards significantly healing the racial divide, and likely enabled faster adoption of an LGBT-fairness agenda, but it was a failure in realizing change from hope beyond identity politics.
Hillary 2016 did NOTHING to address, counter, correct, or embrace that discomfort. Revealed workings of the DNC and Clinton campaign in fact reaffirmed the sense of techno-psychological disenfranchisement, and I feel that is what sunk her campaign: her “public persona” became so triangulated and focus-group frozen that she couldn’t even acknowledge any truth beyond her doctrinal ivory-tower. She lost the empathy of the people.
Exasperating, I agree — but now do you understand a little better? And see how absurd your projection of Hillary as Valjean seems?
You sir, are a condescending ass. I’ve said it simply to make sure you understand.
Huh — I’d have been less surprised with “smug” or “pretentious”.
I’ve been reminded that I’m tired and angry, so I’m readdressing this comment.
Buzz off troll. If you can’t tell an attempt to empathize from condescension and lash out unchecked, I don’t mind talking down to you. Your best purpose, idiot, is as an example of why it’s sometimes okay not to care so much about others.
“Let me say it again because I just read another chic bit of misplacement by Naomi Klein over at the Guardian.
No matter what you think of her trade policies or her coziness with the financial elite, she wasn’t bragging about grabbing pussies, extolling the virtues of torture, promising reprisal killings or slandering judges for their heritage.
How exasperating!”
Did you even TRY to comprehend the message of this piece?
Seems to me you just decided instead to say to yourself something like, “I love burning down my own house, because then I don’t have to worry about being cold.”
I won’t bother with it since it’s over, but I COULD go into GREAT DETAIL slamming Clinton for a WHOLE HOST of horrifying humanitarian failures to counter your own cherry picked list from Trump (who I am definitely no fan of and did not vote for). Trump won, so climb down off that ledge before you fall off. Clinton/Brock/Podesta are EVERY BIT the lying liars that Trump is, so keep that in mind about Trump. He isn’t actually Satan or Hitler, for all his embarrassing and disturbing flaws. Time for you to start trying to figure out which bits were a load of garbage (especially the bots from Brock, the nastiest, dirtiest, most dishonest, and most feared character assassin DC has EVER known).
Glen,
Anyone who has the spare time to write about politics (especially if they get paid for it), they are an elite.
We have cut our own throats in the West, greedily chasing a housing bubble that has priced our children out of the world economy. My parents bought a modest family home for £17k that is now worth £300k – a price tag I could never hope to meet and unless you are downsizing or emigrating becomes meaningless – the hiked value just means banks get richer and more tax gets paid. But we have lapped it up like idiots.
It has been a false economy for the majority of people and those that try need salaries 5-10 times greater than the rest of the world requires just to make ends meet. So the Globalised World we so earnestly want to embrace through feeling guilt for the sins of our greedy past elites bites us in the arse and takes our jobs away. So not only can we no longer afford our overpriced homes, but all the jobs have drifted overseas to China and SE Asia, or to call centres and IT companies in South Africa and India.
I never enslaved anyone. I never sold opium to the Chinese, or bombed Vietnamese, or imprisoned and killed Steve Biko. In fact in the past my ancestors were the victims, never the perpetrators – poor Heugenots chased from France and even poorer Ruthenians fleeing for their lives from Poland. I feel no White Guilt whatsoever and thus no need to justify voting for Obama, there is no need to mix in some crazy Positive Discrimination in my world. It is Class Struggle pure and simple.
Now we are left with the impoverished, disenfranchised children of asset-rich and now-retiring baby-boomers who the greedy global corporations are now targeting like leaches to suck the life blood from the West. But hey, we can always watch Netflix or stroke our iPhones a bit more.
Thatcher saw it coming back in the 70s, killing off SERPS and selling off the council houses. Britain never ever ever shall be slaves we sing, but most of us are pacified serfs to a mortgage now. She smashed the unions and destroyed traditional local industries, without a single moment of consultation with those affected. We willingly bound ourselves whilst she stripped us of our hard-earned rights.
And we still arrogantly tell the remainder of the world we know best. We are idiots and we have let a global elite run rampant as we busied ourselves with pointless specialisations and retraining as we shift from one insecure job to the next.
And now we must try to plot a path between two horrors – one a world divided spiralling towards war, and another a world united under an elite that wants to enslave us all and enforces its will with terrorism and prosecutions of thought-crimes.
It is here already, the seeds of both have sprouted, both coming from the Land of the Free, home of the purest and greatest Constitution on Earth, that drone kills people that MIGHT do something bad in the future whilst it heats up the Cold War in Syria and Iran.
Do you think your journalism will fix that, Glenn?
I don’t think so. I think you are wasting your time, pissing in an ocean of trouble we have allowed to rise as we delude ourselves that our Democracies and our Capitalism give us a lottery’s chance of becoming one of Them, rather than remaining one of Us.
If we all stand up we can just take it – they know that, that is why they are scooping up our emails and militarising our police. It is there, but too many of you have drunk the Kool Aid – you included, Glenn – and are lost in our own vanities.
All of you, do something worthwhile or shut the fuck up.
Some good stuff here but I think this part is just wrong and a serious misreading of things, even if it’s not the major thrust of your article.
“To begin with, one must confront the fact that not only was Barack Obama elected twice, but he is poised to leave office as a highly popular president: ” If polls aren’t to be believed or trusted and are often wrong why would you believe some nonsense like approval ratings are any more reliable. No way Trump and Bernie Sanders (who likely wins the whole thing if not for massive fraud and shenanigans) are able to do what they did if Obama is considered any good by a majority. Clinton, as awful as she is, was certainly not helped by Obama and her loss is partly explained as a repudiation of Obama.
@GLENN
Forgive me if this is duplicative of an earlier comment that seems to have disappeared, but I wanted to say as a longtime reader that this article is some of your finest work, perhaps your very finest. I don’t agree with all of it, but it is beautifully written, masterfully argued, and limns important issues with remarkable concision and clarity. I sincerely commend you.
With that said, I don’t think it is at all unreasonable for Democrats (or anyone else disappointed by Tuesday’s outcome) to blame James Comey. His exquisitely timed intervention (and the media’s breathless, nonstop coverage of same, day after crucial day) dramatically altered the tenor and trajectory of a campaign that had appeared for all intents and purposes to be over. Most importantly, it instantly quashed what had until then been the biggest story of the campaign, namely Trump’s history of serial sexual assaults on women. With the latter issue relegated to the category of “old news” for the duration, Trump was able to go back on offense, gleefully characterizing HRC as being on the verge of prison time even as millions of citizens were already voting.
Assuming that Trump’s presidency is historically consequential (as I expect it likely will be, for better or worse), I believe Comey will long be remembered as one of the most pivotal figures of our age.
Comey’s actions also place in perspective the oft-heard complaints about what a terrible candidate HRC allegedly was. Before Comey’s surprise gambit, she was by all accounts winning decisively. Given the unprecedented eleventh-hour intervention of the nation’s preeminent law enforcement agency on behalf of her charismatic celebrity opponent, it could easily be argued that she performed exceptionally well by coming as close as she did.
I could not disagree more. Comey was just a momentary blip, most read deeper to see what was so, and the Hillaristas continued to make HRC a saint while the ones who could only say “She’s not that guy” understood this would make no difference. The DNC has nto been listening for years, and as a lifetime paying member, I left because of their inability to LISTEN to anyone other than corporations. Period. I see the DNC as a foot servant to their warlord, Corporate$$$, and they have not care much about the people for a couple of decades. HRC lost because she was nto very good at covering up her attachment to them — simply, she isn’t as smart politically. An example of that is hiring the Payday Loan Queen, Schultz, after her despicable exit from the DNC. A good politician would have made a behind the scenes promise and let her be chastised publicly. HRC, with shocking hubris, welcomed her into the bedroom. That allowed those o f us who are smart to show others how she was indeed in bed with corruption.
Gator. I realize you are in a state of shock and dis-belief. Hell, I think Ive got a case of PTSD! I do not think a Trump presidency will … end well.
Still, in my more lucid moments, I seem to recall it was President Obama who reached across the aisle and appointed Comey Dir. FBI?
Just another part of President Obama’s legacy, I reckon.
*see Glenn for more analysis on Comey’s supposed heroic actions in AG Ashcrofts hospital room late that one night …
I don’t think it is at all unreasonable for Democrats (or anyone else disappointed by Tuesday’s outcome) to blame James Comey.
Comey seriously overstepped his authority and, imho, should probably be removed from his sinecure as a result.
But whatever influence this may have had on the election – and I have my doubts about how big a deciding factor it really was since it had largely already been hashed out previously in the media and folks had made up their minds about it one way or the other – it would have been more than overwhelmed if the Dems had been more proactive in addressing the voter suppression that was significantly present in most if not all of the places where Obama handily won in 2012, and Clinton lost on Tuesday.
Maybe I missed it and it WAS something they addressed, but I have an overall impression that, like their tardy support of down ballot candidates, it just wasn’t something they were interested in investing with their energy, time or money. Examining that depressed turnout in hindsight, that may have been an unnecessary self-inflicted wound. If so, it’s a shame. For her, and the voters who will continue to be impacted going forward.
It’s not for former Sanders supporters to retroactively prove the counter-factual: “If the DNC, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, The Clinton faction in charge of the Democratic party hadn’t rigged the leadership contest in Clinton’s favour…then….Bernie Sanders would have beaten her fairly, and then gone on to defeat Donald Trump!!!”
We’ll never know. But that is not the point. The point is that it was not for Wasserman Schultz and the DNC to decide. It was for ordinary Democratic voters to decide if they thought Sanders stood a better chance than Clinton against the Republicans. But there wasn’t a fair contest. Voters never got that fair chance.
A leadership race, like a trial, like an election has ligitimacy, only so far as it is fair. Without a fair process, without confidence in democracy, what is the Democratic party fighting for? And what ground do they have to stand on, ethically, when they criticize the Republicans? A democratic process must appear to be fair, as well as actually be fair. The Democratic leadership process was neither.
The Democratic leadership, the super-delegates, Wall St, Clinton’s Super-Pac, they got the winner they wanted. And now they can enjoy the spoils of victory.
Totally right JLocke.
I found it weird in the last weeks all these regular people trading memes complaining about the press treatment of Clinton. I thought she had been all vetted and battle-tested and stuff? They just retreated into an infantile little world where they figured it would be a good idea to make a bigger deal out of the Comey letter than it even was — seriously, they were the ones who kept that in the news cycle! It’s like they really thought they could control reality.
While I’d give them a few days to freak out, they can’t be allowed to forget what foolish decisions they made, much less do it again.
Hear! Hear!
I don’t disagree with any of that, though it hardly absolves the sewer vermin in this country who reliably elect the most murderous, reactionary leaders they can find, over and over and over and over.
Incredible writing.
Brexit is a signal of the failure of the European Union, and the EU will inevitably fail. Trump is a signal of the failure of the middle class to both accept and succeed within a knowledge based society driven by the abundance of information (aka democratization of facts via the internet), and the subsequent change it is now forcing down unto society.
Unfortunately for the average, white, lesser educated rural voter whom brought Trump to office, this situation for them will only get worse – it will not get better.
The EU will ultimately fail, as will the majority of voters whom helped elect Trump to office. The wealth divide will grow, and those who master the democratization of information – and the ability to process and harness it – will be the only winners in our information based society. This election was as much about intellectual warfare – knowledge based vs blue collar based – as it was anything else.
Naïve in extreme for greenwald to think there was not a racist element driving the vote both for Brexit and trump.
The largest bloc of voters in both cases was a demographic that is not ‘hard up’ (trump’s base sits firmly in middle income bracket/similarly the leave vote came from solidly middle class voters in rural England and Wales). These are not the ‘forgotten’ working class who have been left behind by some mythical and nefarious ‘elite’ meeting in medieval castles under candlelight.
Both votes were driven by cynical fear mongering that ‘brown people’ were dangerous, invading the country and taking jobs. greenwald’s juvenile response is as uninformed and far removed as trump’s was from the actual issues that drive income polarisation.
Doug Salzmann
You write to GKJames on this thread:
“…….BTW, your dismissive, condescending tone is an excellent example of the smug elitism that those deplorable juvenile nihilists decided to blow into itty-bitty pieces. And they did so. Some people are really slow learners…….”
You still have not responded to GKJames’s question he posed to you awhile back (on a different thread):
“………What legal principle absolves Moscow and Damascus from liability for targeting civilians and hospitals in a civil war that you said was caused by Washington?……..”
I’m curious myself.
Where is the empirical evidence that Moscow purposefully bomb civilians and hospitals.
No legal principle absolves militaries of deliberate targeting of civilians or hospitals.
Why do yo ask? Not that I’m likely to respond to more of your nonsense but, if ya wanna give it a try. . .
“It’s the job of the party and the candidate, and nobody else, to persuade the citizenry to support them and find ways to do that.”
Not in this election. In this election every Hillary supporter presented themselves as though they were a campaign manager for the Democrats. And the result is that they’re unwilling to look at the failures of their party because they think it is their fault that she lost.
Here’s the thing…Republicans out-and-out stole the presidency from Gore. They lie, cheat, dishonor, and cause obstruction in every way possible to screw the American people. The media can say what they will, as they are puppets to the R’s establishment. They have now stolen the presidency from Clinton. Somehow or another, the truth will come out. In the meantime, (as Reagan so famously said) “Read my lips”…Trump is not the people’s president. He is not my president and will never be my president. The Republican party has dishonored our nation by deciding to do ANYTHING to have control. I, thus, hate the Republicans…I hate Trump…and, as an American, I am ashamed at what we have become and how totally corrupt our nation is at the current time. If nothing is done about this situation, we will implode. The Republicans have been complete obstructionists and the Dems had to pay for THEIR OBSTRUCTIONISM because they honed their plan (since Americans are too busy to notice) throughout Obama’s legacy by refusing to do their jobs: enormous amounts of money “investigating”; refusal to appoint a Supreme Court Justice; usurping any respect for our government by being obstructionists. Clinton paid the price for the R’s bastardization because the truth was never told…just endless circles of empty journalism…never talking about Brexit…just empty talk and put-downs and character assassinations. We have simply lost our way as a nation, and we had better wake up sooner than later.
The lesson to be learned is that whoever is leading in the polls will lose the election, as their supporters, believing the election is in the bag, don’t bother to vote.
Mr. Trump ran a strategically brilliant campaign in which he systematically lowered his standing in the polls by insulting every demographic he could think of, under-performing in the debates and demonstrating a total lack of preparation or understanding of the presidency. The pollsters dutifully published his every downward tick in popularity, Clinton supporters stayed at home sipping champagne on voting day and the rest is history.
Lies, damned lies and standard deviations!
Actually, I stayed home because the polls told me Hillary had it in the bag. But I’m not a Hillary supporter and I would have voted for Trump (although not happy about it.) The polls somewhat demoralized the opposition AND kept Democrats from feeling the danger.
so my lesson from this is – ignore the polls. I have a harder time forcing myself to vote just becuase one candidate is more evil than the other, though. So there’s that problem.
If by ‘the lessons of Brexit’ you mean our Union appears to be lamentably defective (too), I certainly think that lesson was not lost on President-elect Trump, Glenn!
When you live in the ‘Rust Belt’ and read, e.g., Paul Krugman, the economic guru of the NYT, writing about Obama’s near “full employment” achievements over the past 8 years (as he did again yesterday)… it tends to fall upon deaf ears, imo.
*I was not that startled, then, to learn my home county, the poorest in the entire United States (according to a recent Gruan analysis), voted overwhelmingly to jump, nay leap, out of the Obama/Clinton Status quo frying pan and into the fire of Trump’s raging ‘what do you have to lose’ dystopia. .. as, unlike Trump, they have very little to lose.
Who knows? Perhaps, at long last, ‘the tree of our longing will yield the fruit of despair’ … and this seeming tyranny of the watchman will light up ‘the dark night of absence with the light of reunion’.
I agree with much you say but it is not that simple. You seem to be addressing the party elites and not the rest of us. I am a Democrat in Alabama. From here I am not sure what could have be done differently to offset all of Trump’s free advertising in the form on live coverage of his events. In addition, the media generally treated Clinton and Trump almost identically though Trump is a mad man as Mr. Greenwald succinctly noted. Very late in the campaign that changed to endorsement for Clinton most newspapers. As of now, our candidate won the popular vote. Otherwise the numbers are even and undeniably could be different had James Comey been directing the FBI instead of appeasing (perhaps assisting) the Benghazi Committee. I would hate to be so cynical that I thought Comey as a partisan Republican he might know what any reasonable investigating his action would prosecute him for stepping into the election the way he did. None would. The Clinton Campaign had no ability to offset that. Even Barack Obama’s campaigning for Secretary Clinton could not do it. I read the Intercept daily with it and the New York Times being my starting points each day. The Intercept’s coverage was good but I did not see you or any other news source giving much priority to covering the danger Donald Trump’s sociopathic, narcissistic, and megalomaniac behaviors present to us. Most people know little history and do not know what one individual can do to mislead. He has been promoted as a person with some competence by himself and others with whom he does business. His followers might reasonable believe he is competent. He was obviously not qualified and I did not often see reports or clear opinion to that effect. I live in Alabama and racism is alive and well here. It was a factor in aiding Trump’s popularity here. I have lived in the Northeastern U.S. and it is alive and well there. We need to encourage the establishment of more political parties. Our political system is designed in a way to encouraging the stupidity of both parties and manipulation by the elites.
Since the very beginning millions of people were telling the major (neo)liberal media there was something very wrong with Clinton qua candidate that there was not comparably with Obama (or with Sanders) and the media discounted this manifest and generalized expressed reality ab initio and the result is that the aforesaid reality came back to bite with the immensity of “Jaws” said media, the Clinton campaign, and of course far more importantly the US polity and the rest of the world combined. Indeed, that “bite” has proven to be a self-inflicted defeat of Waterloo-ian proportions for the relevant faction of the U.S. “symbolic economy” establishment elite: through their very voracity for power (inextricably political and economic) the Clintonites ate themselves into a stupendous and stuporous rout in what was meant to be their Normandy over the empirically-based economic cognizance of the most reactive sector of the American working class, the white (male) working class. To say that reality defeated Hillary Clinton, and her deceptively endless camp of “neoliberal ontology”-based followers (notably “symbolic economy” techs, propagandists, sophists, and apologists) would be trite indeed if it weren’t for the fact that everyone seemingly bought into the lie (even the poll gurus) despite knowing it was all based on a sea of lies (e.g. Russia hacking the election so that their so-called useful idiot Trump could get elected). Neglecting and indeed dispensing with reality from behind a shield of neoliberal shamelessness is what resulted in Bush II’s win, and now in Trump’s as well. Reality long enough repressed eventually takes on the form of formerly unimaginable nightmares and this is where America now fully finds itself: in a collective nightmare of wherein anything is darkly possible if not yet imaginable.
Dear Glenn
You are spot in in your analysis.
However, I think you could and should go even deeper, if you don’t want to keep repeating the same narrative that you have developed and which by now is quite clear.
Yes, we have an elite that has lined its pockets while ignoring and patronizing the poor. But this argument, to some extent, falls into the trap of over-moralizing an issue that has to some extent been a law of nature.
Due to technological progress, the work that the embittered rust-belt voters have done has mostly been automated; indeed, in a few years it won’t be Indians or Chinese doing these jobs; it will be machines and algorithms.
Unfortunately, it is only a handful of people who are capable, but also needed, to develop these algorithms. Many others, (ironically, also including many of today’s so-called elite), will “no longer be needed”, at least from an employment, contribution perspective.
But what is the purpose of a man who has been robbed of a possibility to work and contribute to society? This is a question, that many in the “rust belt” are experiencing, and many more of us will soon be forced to ponder.
So Glen, of course we can blame the elites — but as some other commenters point out, we will always have them — but the more interesting question is: what is our plan to re-establish a societal equilibrium which is going lost, almost as a force of nature, due to Google, Uber, Airbnb, Tesla?
Simple redistribution won’t work — that does not create a raison d’etre for the working classes… So I ask the question that many a leftist, busy bashing the system, fails to ask: what should we, and the elite, do to turn these processes, which are descending like forces of nature, around?
I do not think you can consider the result for the democratic party as a “crushing disaster” for the party on a statistical level: they receive a higher % of the popular vote (just) even though that translated into a defeat in the system. Both parties are alignments of disparate constituencies and it is clear that more people swing their vote which is interesting for the future. I think you are correct to say democrats failed to align themselves with the necessary change and that HRC was a fatally compromised candidate. The challenge for both parties in the future is to build effective coalitions. The challenge for the Republicans will be delivering for a very diverse group from conservatives to the broken hearted. It may be that Trump heralds in change, but my reading of him is that little will change and that he will be overwhelmed by the complexity of office and will be out-manoevred by a right wing cabal who will pursue a revived reaganite economic plan that will continue to encourage urban centres (who voted Democrat) and will do little to change the decaying, rural heart of America.
Right before the 2000 election, Ralph Nader said that he would probably prefer Bush to Gore, saying that it was better to have a provocateur than an anesthetizer. Well, said provocateur ignored the warnings about Osama bin Laden’s plans to attack the US, and then used the attack to invade a country that had nothing to do with the attack. And now we have someone who’s going to make us nostalgic for Bush (not that Clinton would be much better, if at all).
Yes, there’s always the instinct to let things get so bad that people revolt. Problem is, there’s a much better chance of getting Nazi Germany than a positive revolt.
What everyone in those Michigan and Wisconsin suburbs has missed something neither Trump or Clinton has no idea how to solve. AI and automation will soon be a reality. Anyone’s job is no longer safe and our ‘leaders’ have no answer. Either we go socialist or slaves.
On the bright side, maybe Trump’s election will be a big kick in the ass to the Democratic Party and make it realize that it can’t continue to nominate totally corporate Democrats and expect to win. Probably not, but there’s a chance.
Frankly, fuck the Democrat Party.
It’s time Americans got off the tit of their asinine two-party system and started trying to figure out a way of embodying the ideas behind representative democracy in a system that wasn’t designed to frustrate those very ideas centuries ago.
Succinctly put.
Nope. Not gonna happen. The only chance we have is a full #DemExit and move to a real progressive party, the Green Party. We need to fully support the Greens at every level, the Dems have repeated this pattern decade after decade – failing to move further to the left and instead practicing this white-washed (no pun intended) centrism that allows the minority to elect these types of candidates.
I fully agree with you and Emjay. But at the moment, only members of one of the two gangs have any realistic chance of winning in any federal election. I’m a registered Green and always vote Green for president. I’ve been an advocate for proportional representation, instant-runoff voting, and a parliamentary system for decades.
But that all said, it sure would be nice to see the Democrats move to the left.
@Maisie
My reply function appears to be disabled, so I’m responding to you here.
I know several Trump supporters and to a person they are openly prejudiced against African-Americans and/or Latinos and/or Muslims and/or immigrants and/or basically every minority in existence other than Jews (the Trump supporters I know are Jewish).
Of course this is a small sample and not necessarily representative. With that said, while I don’t imagine “all” Trump voters to be bigots, I’m comfortable saying, based on the currently available information, that “most” of them are.
This is the définition of anecdotal evidence. But you’re probably right
I hope to see a woman president in my lifetime, and I hope she will be an actual feminist, rather than one who accepts donations from Saudi Arabia and promotes wars against their enemies. Being a woman and talking about your opponents sexist antics, does not make one a feminist.
I feel exactly the same. She is not a feminist in my eyes.
On the Br-exit, yes, it’s going to be terrible when the UK is no longer represented by Farage in the EU parliament. And without the voice of Jean Marie le Pen to represent us! It would be interesting if Mr. Greenwald knew something about the EU’s governance structure to understand just what it is about Democracy that Greenwald is so opposed to? When the EU decided to maintain sanctions against Russia, it was the decision of a half dozen people — deciding for 500 million. Why is that such a good thing? Maybe we should just outsource our foreign policy to the Pentagon and our domestic policy to Monsanto. Would that be better?
What do you mean “should”? It’s already being done by those simpering idiots running amuck in Brussels. TTIP, CETA and TISA are being applied even though they are not officially ratified yet .
If Front National and AFD is what it takes to finally stop the globalist corporate power grab – remember under fascism corporations serve the state, not the other way round as we see now – then fascism will be the answer. However wrong that is and damn the nasty side effects, which are well known here in Europe.
The so-called European left really, really, need to get their priorities in order.
Where do you get your information? TTIP is dead, and CETA was approved conditionally on revisions including – most importantly – the arbitration provisions. And as for Nigel Farage, well, the EU’s gain will be Britain’s loss. Good riddance to him; perhaps May would be good enough to appoint him ambassador to the US. Now there would be a fit! Speaking of great appointments, if Marine becomes PM in France, perhaps she can appoint her father as ambassador to the US. Put all the bad eggs in one basket.
24bJeff: Better keep an eye on the TTP. There are lots of ways to slip it through when people are looking at some new, shiny object.
Not a word about the media in this piece, which reduces its value as commentary on the situation. Both the US and the UK have broadcast and newspaper media which are overwhelmingly right-wing, and have stoked the xenophobia / racism / blame-the-other feelings in both countries. As much as ‘social media’ has risen as a proportion of the information people ingest, there are huge swathes of people who don’t partake, and who still rely on the ‘old media’ for information, and the old media still leads the dialogue of what people discuss on social media.
She won the vote.
Bernie Sanders did not betray his principles or his followers. He said from the outset of his campaign that he would support the chosen candidate of the Democratic Party. He had to do this to be allowed to run as a Democrat. Had he not run as a Democrat he would have not been able to win the 22 states he won in the primary season. He would have had no more visibility in the election than Jill Stein or Gary Johnson. That is simply the reality of American politics as it is structured. There was no betrayal. Sanders did exactly as he told his followers he would do. He will continue to work to make positive change in the American system. Anyone who bothers to pay attention to what he does and says knows this.
An excellent apology for the State as an institution. I love all the little insinuations that the State is somehow redeemable if only the people in charge behave themselves. Greenwald is an obvious Statist treading a tired path. His stereotypical utopia is so far removed from reality no amount of rhetoric will bring him an iota closer.
Too bad Hellary had so many faces. Millions didn’t know which one to vote for.
Hint: Always vote for the private face, to receive the reflected luster, because thats the one that has basked in the Blankfein/Dimon glow.
Answer to your question:
“NO. No, they will not learn that lesson.”
What we are seeing here is the post-Modern “refeudalisation” of society.
Viewed with proper perspective, the Modern Era was an anomaly. Stripped of its ephemera, human history until the industrial era was a story of aggressively narcissistic, machiavellian psychopaths competing (sometimes collaborating) to attain positions of power, then using that power to dominate and brutalise their fellow human beings. We know from the historical record that such psychopaths felt no remorse in wasting the lives of thousands – even millions – of “their” Subjects.
If that behaviour seemed to moderate in the Modern Era, it wasn’t because human psychology had evolved. Evolution operates over a much longer time frame. The psychopaths are still there!
All that happened in the Modern Era was a temporary change in the environment: the demands of the industrial economy made it expedient – for a time – for the Rulers to make limited concessions to their Subjects.
The industrial state required the training of large numbers of Subjects to operate the complex – but not fully automated – machinery of industrial production. Having had so much invested in them, Subjects had value and their bargaining power relative to their Rulers improved. In the extreme, they could withdraw their labour and quickly impose greater costs on the owners of capital than they themselves suffered. Under such conditions, the optimal strategy for Rulers (only after they had tried violent suppression and found it ineffective) was to make certain limited concession to their Subjects.
Thus we had the quintessential ideals of the 20th century:
a) egalitarianism, the ideal that all people are entitled to the same basic opportunities irrespective of their ancestry;
b) democratisation, the ideal that Subjects are entitled to have some say in how they are governed; and
c) self-determination, the ideal that self-identifying communities are allowed to choose for themselves how they will govern themselves.
But these concessions didn’t mean that the psychopaths had gone away. And there was never anything to say that the conditions of industrial production would last forever.
We are now witnessing the Elite’s response to the post-industrial world of AI and robotics.
No longer are large numbers of Subjects required to run complex but not fully automated machinery. Now it is small numbers of very highly trained technicians required to manage the robotic workforce. Small in number, they can easily be bought off. The IT technicians are the Praetorian Guard of the new regime.
As for the rest of humanity, they are now redundant or soon will be. Their Rulers no longer need them. The earlier concessions are “inoperative”.
To be sure, they may get employment of a kind, especially in providing personal services. But it will be employment in the “Uber Economy” of savage competition between workers with all economic rent flowing to the owners of the market platforms.
And the Elite are responding precisely as one would expect a self-serving Elite to respond. They are relentlessly winding back any concessions hitherto made, while their economic theologians are busy trying to justify it as being for the “Greater Good”.
Inequality is quickly returning to its historical norm, as Piketty has documented. We are returning to a feudal state in which property is owned by the magnates and everyone else is a defenceless serf. Where conventional “property” has run out the magnates (and their captive politicians) have created novel “intellectual property” to extend their power to control.
Even the critical technicians are transformed into obedient indentured workers through the weapon of crippling student debt.
As for democratisation, in most countries it never developed beyond “elective” government dominated by Elite parties. Moneyed interests and pressure groups have found it a trivial exercise to subvert it.
To entrench their gains, they are taking ever more critical decisions out of the hands even of elective government: the privatisation of strategic monopolies, essential services and critical databases means that elected politicians are forced negotiate with private magnates on terms dictated by the private magnates.
And finally, self-determination has been eroded by the growth of opaque and unaccountable neo-empires (like the EU) and so-called “trade” agreements (which actually have little to do with trade and everything to do with taking decisions out of the hands of national governments and giving them to opaque committees of the Elite interest).
At some point, the Elite will eventually decide that the continued existence of masses of “redundant” human beings is a threat to their own security.
Already, we have seen the new lethal weaponised robotic “security guards” with rudimentary AI.
You don’t need to be Einstein to see how this game will play out.
For most people it’s not going to be a happy ending.
excellent column. summarizes events perfectly.
hopefully this message is read and re-read and gets ‘digested’ by some of the eiltes as well as those in denial of being an elite.
The only real parallel between Brexit & Trump’s election is that the voters let themselves be persuaded by clowns: in the UK Farage (supported by Johnson), in the US by Trump. Both clowns had nothing to offer but hot air & no content.
In the case of the US the only person who could have offered real alternatives & solutions, Bernie Sanders, betrayed his principles & his followers. When his juggernaut assent by the Democratic Party, corrupt to the core, and mainstream media, he should have endorsed Jill Stein & called on his followers to vote for her. Instead he endorsed the same corruption he so fiercely tried to expose & fight. How sad. November 8th was a black day for the US & the world at large. Trump will not change the system he railed against, he just wanted to get elected. The Trump era will be 1 of the blackest, if not THE blackest period in the history of the US.
Correcting a typo:
When his juggernaut assent was stymied by the Democratic Party ….
Right wingers historically benefit politically whenever profound economic uncertainty dominates the ballot as it did in US 2016. Look around you…Ever hear of the Weimar Republic? How many examples do you need?
It’s the economy, stupid.
This is why people voted for Brexit in the UK, and the US election result was an extension of the same theme :
https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-latest-proof-of-the-insularity-and-failure-of-western-establishment-institutions/
you are correct about Bernie.
Trump, not so. Trump is a builder. Builders are not politicians, corruption specialists, powermongers, or thieves. Look at Greece, Egypt, Babylon, Rome, and the like. Donald Trump is that sort of person. He is a MONUMENTALIST.
There is a great potential value in that. And it’s Huge.
Paranam Kid: Bernie betrayed no one. He said from the beginning of his campaign that he would support whoever was chosen as the candidate of the Democratic Party. Get your facts straight.
He didn’t fight when she and her filthy DNC sabotaged his campaign, utterly subverted the primaries, suppressing and stealing the vote, when he and we all knew it. He just rolled over. He knowingly played sheepdog, corralling ostensibly progressive voters, for her abysmally failed candidacy. He went out of his way to prevent the emails, the termite-infested foundation on which her foul candidacy rested, which were to prove to be her undoing, from coming to the fore early on, at a time when she could have been pushed aside and he could have, had he actually wanted to, taken the initiative and the lead. He just rolled over. Seems like betrayal to me.
Do you mean the whitest?
Breadline Bernie would hardly have been the solution. He was hell-bent on taking from all of those who produce to give to all of those who want to sit on their fat, lazy butt.
Free healthcare, free insurance, free education, free food, free Housing,free, free, free. There’s no such thing as free you need to get off your ass and go earn it.
I love my country – but I am tired of the Democrats trying to turn it into a socialist system that has never worked and won’t work here – and the corporatists that want to take over the democracy and turn it into their own personal piggy bank for wars.
I don’t need the government to control my life, run my life, plan my life, live my life. I want the government to leave me the hell alone.
In short – your freedom to be you shall include my freedom to be free from you.
“It goes without saying that Trump is a sociopathic con artist obsessed with personal enrichment: the opposite of a genuine warrior for the downtrodden. That’s too obvious to debate.”.
Really? I like your work, but if you are directing it toward intelligent people, I think we deserve better that the above quote.
Glenn, thank you. Well said. I think you have defined and underscored exactly what happened; why a “deplorable” would finally reach for any visible, and seemingly viable lifeline.
One note of dispute: that example given is not free trade.
In simplistic terms, I trade freely, by example, when I have a tomato, but I prefer banana, and my neighbor has one, so we agree to trade, or if preferred, exchange or barter, via our own free will doing so.
If there is a lie, a cheat, a steal, a bribe, a force, or a murder involved, then the trade is most certainly not free. Its not moral, not ethical; just simply criminal.
Thank you again.
Other people are not your property. In other words: They are not yours to boss around. Their lives are not yours to micromanage.
The fruits of their labor are not yours to dispose of. It doesn’t matter how wise or marvelous or useful it would be for other people to do whatever it is you’d like them to do.
It is none of your business whether they wear their seat-belts, worship the right god, have sex with the wrong people, or engage in market transactions that irritate you. Their choices are not yours to direct.
They are human beings like yourself, your equals. You possess no legitimate authority over them.
As long as they do not themselves step over the line and start treating other people as their property, you have no moral basis for initiating violence against them ‘ nor for authorizing anyone else to do so on your behalf. ~Anon
So, no social contracts whatsoever? Yeah dude, we are now in that society.
“If the Jews were and had been a shining example of benevolent and fruitful contributors to the world there would be no anti-Semitism.” –actual Trump supporter, in this comment thread.
Er, is it OK to say this person is a bigot? Or must I merely be sympathetic to his presumed economic plight?
You can say almost anything here, except of course but that goes without saying.
I think I’d conclude some bigotry was in play, myself. The wrong extrapolation from the comment that all Trump supporters are prejudiced should be avoided, however, as it is a bit, well, bigoted.
thank you for that thoughtful response as i had contemplated gator90’s insulting remark which borders on anti-americanism.
Since the internet is a faceless entity and the left loves false flag operations I’d be suspicious of any post that conveniently ‘proves’ that Trump supporters are racists.
We don’t know his economics.
I’m not sympathetic to bigots for their bigotry. I can be sympathetic to people who have been overlooked by the establishment and treated like they do not matter, as often happens with people in the lower income bracket.
What should we do? We can condemn bigotry in any way we can, but lend an ear to those who feel left out. We can work with them to find solutions. Make them welcome- that would help reduce tensions, and perhaps change the system.
By the way …
If you count votes for Clinton like you count votes against Brexit — that is, the popular vote — then Clinton wins.
You realize only going by popular vote would silence diverse viewpoints from sparsely populated areas; people in high-density areas tend to think alike.
While that’s convenient when the groupthink agrees with your own beliefs, imagine if it wasn’t so. Imagine if several large cities were filled with intolerant racists, and there was a rural minority of people who believed in equal treatment for all. Makes more sense to have a broad selection of views, no?
by the way…
If you count the votes like both sides agreed to do, Hellary lost.
She also lied.
Most of the anger expressed by the wallstreet media has to do with their allegiance to wallstreet thieves who want americans to fight wars of destabilisation for their own personal gain at the expense of american lives and neglecting America.
http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/11/09/492887/Iran-Hamas-AmirAbdollahian-Qaddoumi-Palestine-Israel-US
The war machine is the one thing that Wall Street still has TOTAL faith in:
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/defense-industry-stocks-surge-following-donald-trump-victory/
Another chirp from Planet Birdbrain.
The election is over.
Trump got the most electoral votes.
Clinton got the most popular votes.
Analogizing the Brexit vote means that NO would have received the most votes. Which is exactly what people expected. It is also exactly the opposite of what happened.
These are numbers.
What this has to do with a further smear of Clinton is beyond my capacity to understand.
This same puzzlement goes for anyone who voted for Trump. You don’t fix your toaster by throwing it in the lake. You don’t make America great again by putting a madman in the White House.
The election is over.
Let it go.
further smear on Hellary? Wallstreet’s proxy? Wait – we got US another reality tv show coming up. Her quid pro quo deeds and lots of other stuff are prime time deals. And wallstreet still fears this because, like all the other suicide victims surrounding the Clinton cloud, HELLARY KNOWS TOO MUCH.
Let it go on.
By the way…..
Clinton has lost, and Britain will leave Europe because that is the result from the democratic US election, and the democratic UK referendum.
The elites and the establishment don’t like this but have only themselves to blame.
Keep crying loser,and if it comforts you, keep blaming it on the Russians – i’m sure you will get over it one day.
Some pushback against Tim Carney’s (and your) flippant dismissal of the significance of white supremacist sympathies:
To say that white America can no longer deny how deeply white supremacist it is, does NOT mean that anyone thinks that all of the white people who voted for this, did so because it serves their racist agenda (acknowledging that some explicitly did).
What it DOES mean, is that the majority of white voters are RACIST ENOUGH to enable a racist dictator to escalate the violent oppression of black people, native people, Latinos, Muslims, and everyone else who will be targeted, just to say, “Fuck the establishment.”
It ALSO MEANS that that offence is exacerbated by the fact that they were willing to sacrifice all of those people, without ever stopping to think about the fact that their gesture ENTIRELY FAILS to say, “Fuck the establishment.”
If you’re examining the way in which rich white America ignored (and continues to ignore) poor white America, then don’t fail to examine the way in which poor white America ignored (and continues to ignore) non-white America.
Lisa, you realize Trump got 1.4 million votes less than Romney? And Clinton 6.4 million less than Obama?
Romney didn’t run a campaign based on bigotry, yet he still got 60 million votes. My point is that- if the same 60 million republicans simply went to the polls this tuesday and marked their choice like obedient conservatives, how can we determine that they had race on the mind, as opposed to abortion, or guns, or what they had for breakfast, or any number of other mundane things?
Said more strongly, I reject the notion that anyone who votes for a candidate which harbors a variety of views necessarily supports all of those views. I liked Bernie. I don’t think a 15 dollar an hour mininum wage or free education would be feasible (at first). But I still like what he stands for overall.
Please read what I ACTUALLY wrote.
It’s very different than what you imagined.
He’s already confirmed to be a dictator before he’s taken the oath of office?
Damn I wish I had your crystal balls.
Yes. Confirmed by his own self-description.
But his hate-sick psychos believe in him so much that they don’t believe a word he says.
At the end of the day, they still need people to vote for them. It’s all we peasants get really. They think they have it covered by buying it with advertising and particularly by having the same two heads of the coin competing against each other. Trump broke through the latter. That’s why he won. Too bad the Democrats didn’t understand that first.
Comey singlehandedly turned a double digit lead 11 days prior to the election into a raging dumpster fire …
To read the suggestion that this is merely blame shifting, is to reduce substantive discussion to something bordering on negligence.
That the Intercept has deemed the FBI’s role in this election of no importance, not worthy of investigation puts its judgement into serious question.
That the FBI inserted itself into a Presidential election 11 days prior to the vote and reversed trends, altering the outcome of the election…. is not worthy of discussion?
Simply negligent.
Hillary Clinton won the popular vote.
For many concerned about down ballot races and the likely outcomes of a Democratic loss… it wasn’t just about whether you like the Democratic party or Clinton…
The entire alt-right political party apparatus has been handed our entire government for a generation of outcomes.
savor that
There is one outstanding vacancy and a projected 3 additional Supreme Court vacancies that may occur during the next 4 years.
There are over 100 Federal Judgeships unfilled… which will now, remarkably, be filled post-haste by alt-right ideologues.
A host of Legislative and policy proposals overturned, reversed
Regulatory changes overturned
Environmental and Global Warming initiatives
Research and Scientific funding eliminated or overseen by industry operatives
Voting Rights, Civil Rights, LGBT rights, advances overturned
Reproductive Rights
Worker’s Rights
Unions,
….many, many more items pending
What is particularly galling here was to see the non stop calls for accountability on Clinton’s part, while ignoring Trump.
For they have sown the wind, And they will reap the whirlwind.
The stalks of grain wither and yield no grain.
Whatever remains, dark forms shall swallow it all.
The nation itself is swallowed up
Elections have consequences.
sure beats the sale of America to the TPP and wallstreet thieves, and WW3.
ah, yes… Trump (your hero) will be sure to put on his white gloves while administering the purest form of governance.
Or more so than Comey, ACA marketplace access opened Nov 1st bringing lots of Americans face to face with the fruit Obamacare has borne.
You are a liar. You have to know better. You’ve been around here quite a bit, and for long enough, to totally know you statement is utterly false.
More interestingly, you completely ignore the very compelling points made in the article above you.
Mona. You calling me a liar is rich. Nor does it make it so. The facts remain. You and your pals did your utmost to repeatedly deride, denigrate and impugn all that raised the facts about Trump’s malignancy… and the manipulations of the FBI…. all the while continuing to wail on the Clinton horse to the exclusion of any other topic.
Well done.
Comey’s interference was undeniably intended to change the direction the election was headed, and his actions constitute a flagrant abuse of his position.
As one official said, “He made an independent decision to go against longstanding Justice Department and FBI practice to not comment publicly about politically sensitive investigations within 60 days of an election.”
However, if I could magically alter one aspect of this tragic farce, in order to avoid this end, I would replace the Democratic Party’s sabotage of Bernie Sanders, with an earnest and unbiased effort to inform the public as to its options.
(Given that that’s an imaginary scenario, I may as well get AGGRESSIVELY reasonable.)
How James Comey Hurt the FBI—and the Democratic Process
The FBI director’s decision to disclose an inquiry into Hillary Clinton’s emails that led nowhere
may havehas irrevocably altered the results of the 2016 balloting.Details of investigations are kept secret precisely to protect the reputations of those being investigated, so that their good names are not enveloped in a cloud of suspicion, and so that the Bureau itself does not become a political tool to be manipulated by partisans to their benefit.
Manipulate they did.
House Republicans asserted that the FBI investigation into Clinton had been “reopened,” and began discussing potential impeachment before the results of the election are even known.
Erroneous reports on Fox News suggested an indictment of Clinton was imminent.
Donald Trump, spent the following week loudly declaring that “this is bigger than Watergate.”
…much of the reporting following Comey’s original letter suggests that some number of agents within the FBI are eagerly trying to swing the election to Trump.
An FBI agent told The Guardian that Clinton is “the antichrist personified to a large swath of FBI personnel,” and that “the reason why” Bureau agents had been “leaking is they’re pro-Trump.”
Reuters reported that “a faction of investigators” based in the FBI’s New York Office “is known to be hostile to Hillary Clinton.” Trump surrogate and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani told Fox News that he had advance notice of Comey’s decision, saying “You’re darn right I heard about it, and I can’t even repeat the language that I heard from the former FBI agents.”
But the damage has been done, and the results are exactly as one might expect: Trump gained support for his assertions that Clinton is an unindicted criminal, the prospects of down-ballot Democrats suffered since the letter came out, and the GOP now holds both chambers of Congress and has won the White House.
The FBI is meant to protect the democratic process, not use its powers to manipulate it.
While leaks are an important part of the public’s ability to scrutinize government, elections cannot be free and fair if those in intelligence agencies use the information they gather to damage politicians they don’t like and assist those they do. Doing so is not simply a violation of the Justice Department’s ethical guidelines, it is an abuse of power.
excerpts: Adam Serwer, The Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/the-damage-comey-and-the-fbi-did-is-irreparable/506792/
In short: how DARE we not pander to the fragile sensibilities of feckless immaturity?
Also I notice there were no calls for self-reflection and odes to voter responsibility in your closing scold about “pointing fingers.” Sometimes those windows are in fact mirrors, Glenn.
Isn’t Clinton the head of the Snake called the Establishment? Isn’t she part of all the coups and unrest on much pf the developing world?
What is the Empire to do without a the Emperor in Chief??
I think he’s putting too fine a point on it. Let’s not read too much into this. Americans generally switch parties every second term, Trump would have won if he were Elmer Fudd. I don’t know why people think they can win every battle, or blame their enemies when they retaliate. It’s what enemies do….
Congratulations, Mr. Greenwald, for a well-written article. However, you have to concede that those that would benefit most from its message are those that are least likely to read it and, in the unlikely event that they did read it, are most likely to dismiss its content. This is the challenge that we’re facing – that the progressive modernists have been taught to dismiss any and all dissenting opinions as invalid, or racist or perverted in some way. Trust me; I face these people every day and try to demonstrate that there are more similarities between those that want equality and those that wants freedom than there are differences; but, there’s a leap that they’re unwilling to take, where the individual is fundamental. Unless we can tackle that fundamental disconnect, these kinds of articles are but snowflakes in a desert … or, is it dessert. I forget.
Whoever “progressive modernists” are supposed to be, you’ve just “dismiss(ed) any and all” of them, hypocrite, as well as their indisputably valid observation of “racism”.
LISTEN to the people call you “racist” and “perverted”.
The reason they are not “leaping” to you is because they SHOULDN’T.
You are wrong.
And, given the fact that you are so intellectually lazy that you can’t even bring yourself to look up ‘desert’ and ‘dessert’, you will STAY wrong until the day you die.
Golly, the Klintonians sure seem to have their undies in a twist. The last, tattered trappings of civility appear to have been hastily tossed on the trash heap.
They want to kill. I mean, they wanna, they wanna kill. Kill. They wanna, they wanna see, they wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in their teeth. Eat dead, burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL.
Maybe they’ve all spent their final Revise the Record paychecks on large quantities of cheap liquor.
Do you think we’ve seen the last of Jimmy and Karen? I know I’d have to do a three-day binge after spending months as they did posting the endless, repetitive, gross drivel about the honor and sanctity of the Clintons. Once they sober up perhaps they’ll come back just to say “bye?”
Greenwald, through his support for Assange bears a lot of responsibility for this catastrophe. His assertion that this is nothing more than a revolt against elites is nonsense. This is a Putin style takeover of one elite faction by another far more dangerous faction. As always they use the people they purport to represent to get what they want by stoking class, religion, nationalism and race. But make no mistake the people they use are not just desperate and angry, they are culpable because they keep letting themselves be used by the elites that oppress them.
Every political faction has their own elites. They are not the same and they do not represent the same morals or policies. Even though the Greenwalds of this world, in order to promote their own agenda, try to convince us that there is no difference between elite faction there are significant differences and over the next few months we are going to see just how different they really are.
So Glen f*ck you with your self serving nonsense and take responsibility for helping put this sociopath and the rest of the republican scum in total control of every branch of the federal government.
You just proved his point.
You obviously think that Mr. Greenwald is much more influential than I do. However, I do agree that it seems rather selfish of Mr. Greenwald to promote his own agenda rather than yours.
you sound somewhat disappointed that queen hellary fell off her horse.
awful.
consider that hellary actually believed she could get on a horse without falling off.
Assange did it? i thought it was Russia what did it. Perhaps you might instead ask what hellary done did. Asking hellary a question like that can be a real challenge because when you ask hellary anything you first have to decide which of her 2 faces to ask. Then it gets worse because when she answers you, if she does, you have to figure out which of her 2 faces is providing the answer. Lucky for hellary, having 2 faces will keep the facial id spies guessing!
Apparently she’s now blaming Obama! of all people, for failing to put Humpty together again.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11/report-hillary-clinton-couldnt-stop-crying-blamed-comey-obama-stunning-loss-video/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=im
The supreme sense of entitlement, as highlighted in the name of Doug Henwood’s lovely little book, “My Turn”, is stunning. I wonder if her apoplectic blame chain might eventually even lead all the way back to Blankfein.
“Goddammit Lloyd, why didn’t you just outright buy me the fucking Office instead of allowing this cheap electoral charade to go on…?”
That actually brought a bit of brevity to my dark mood. The “Putin” touch is especially cute.
One rather gathers, however, that you did not read the article, or, if you did, it sailed right over your head.
As always they use the people they purport to represent to get what they want […]
Your intent is for that statement to be applied to Republicans but it applies just as much to Democrats. Obama purported to represent “change”, implying that he would make things better for those who supported him. Instead, he dismantled the organization that lifted him to victory. He no longer wanted to hear what they had to say once he’d planted his back side in the oval office.
But make no mistake the people they use are not just desperate and angry, they are culpable because they keep letting themselves be used by the elites that oppress them.
People are rightfully angry. And, if there is one thing this election reflected, it was exactly that populist anger at the establishment parties that have for so long ignored their base on both sides of the political spectrum. The Democratic party did everything in its power to avoid fielding a populist candidate of their own, refusing to acknowledge this anger, despite the evidence of how great his cross-spectrum appeal was. Instead, they closed ranks, shut down any hint of non-party participation and force-fed an elite, center-right oligarch marinated in years’ worth of a track record of the oppression you mention – oppression, btw, depends an awful lot on one’s perspective and capacity for empathy – and the people told them to go fuck themselves rather than be oppressed/controlled by them any longer because they had had, quite simply enough. Of. That. Shit.
Their strategy was rejected because people no longer wished to be, as you put it, culpable. The people rejected being used. The people had been telling them for a very long time to take their business-as-usual approach and stuff it up their asses. And, because the Dems ignored all the signs – while simultaneously chortling about how Trump had single-handedly destroyed the Republican party as an institution and rubbing their hands in gleeful anticipation over getting the opponent of their choice – we are now left to deal with the fallout from their hubris.
I’m bitter about all of that too, but I apportion the blame significantly differently than you.
Now that the dust has cleared and with the wisdom of hindsight, Mrs. Clinton’s mistakes have become obvious. She was too honest with the electorate.
People understand on an intellectual level that their job is being outsourced and never coming back. But they want their politicians to promise them something. Bernie Sanders was wildly popular for a while until the DNC put the squeeze on him, by promising free tuition and a $15 minimum wage. Mrs. Clinton could have promised something – to save social security, reform Obamacare, anything. But she wouldn’t do it because she’d promised Goldman Sachs she’d implement austerity, and she refused to renege on that promise. So all she had left for the hordes of people lined up at the food banks was to assure everybody that America was already great, as proved by the cool million dollars in cash she received as a birthday present from the emir of Qatar.
Politicians should promise a chicken in every pot if they want to be elected, even if they have no intention of keeping that promise. It is a mystery that someone who spent most of her adult life in politics, never learned that simple lesson.
Seems like you never bothered to study Clinton’s many detailed policy proposals. Shame.
He couldn’t study them. You see, Benito is blind and deaf. He can only communicate via sign language and a variety of tactile techniques that he and his caregivers have developed.
His contributions here are delivered via signs and transcribed by the caregivers for posting. They seem to be the result of direct messages from the Muses he receives while in an altered state.
The New York Times presumably did study them, and in February they wrote:
Mrs. Clinton obviously decided she didn’t need a stronger candidacy. However, in view of the recent election results, second guessing is not unreasonable. Mrs. Clinton probably impressed Lloyd Blankfein with her knowledge of economics and detailed policy proposals, but she failed to impress the voters in the rust belt.
You see, Randy? I am always astonished at the detail and accuracy of those transmissions from the Muses.
Short and a winning observation.
i studied hellary’s proposal!
Raising the minimum wage – yeah.
By the time the wage hike would be implement over time, wallstreet thieves would rise prices and godforsaken rents simultaneously which would effectively wipe out any meaningful gain.
Making education affordable – another yeah.
Hellary promised wallstreet more high prices and thresh-holds that would trap families in this loan scam in the same fashion that her wallstreet thieving friends trapped and bankrupted home owners. Not only that – B.Hellary was prepared to put most American families on welfare for that and with a payback promise of turning over the home much later on based on increased (albeit fraudulent) valuations.
Too bad the wallstreet thieves put out so much money and lost – eh, actually not. Serves them right.
They didn’t lose. The house never loses. They got Trump instead, who’ll no doubt do them quite fine in a pinch.
Somewhere, in some closet, is a velvet lined box in which are nestled a whole series of interchangeable psychopaths, to be taken out and played with at appropriate intervals.
Like the delicately detailed proposal to surround Russia, right up to the borders, with nuclear missiles, and get this partay rollin’
From the same Media and Polling Companies who gave us the Hilary blowout of Trump……..it’s BS
“Barack Obama elected twice, but he is poised to leave office as a highly popular president: now viewed more positively than Reagan.”
The tale Greenwald tells has become a familiar one in liberal circles. The Trump victory represents a revolt of the embattled middle class, shortchanged by neoliberal policies and regarded with contempt by detached liberal elites.
The story is altogether reasonable and plausible, it just happens to bear no relation to reality. There is simply no way that one can examine the overwhelming bulk of Trump’s speeches and conclude his primary, secondary or even tertiary message was that his policies will help the middle class get back to work and achieve a piece of the American dream.
Indeed, he studiously avoided any suggestion of job creation, having absolutely no means nor any intention of producing jobs or stimulating the moribund economy. Instead, he played to the mentality of his constituency through ever more virulent, Nazi-inspired hatred of immigrants, Muslims, Mexicans, women and others. These horrifying and despicable utterances were invariably greeted with the most thunderous applause at his rallies.
We need to stop going through bizarre and unseemly acrobatics to come up with excuses for what amounts to a branch of the Klan. If they can be destroyed, they should be destroyed. Détente with these filthy wretches is not an option.
Glen’s case can not be supported. We are asked to accept that the disenfranchised workers of this country are seething with undiluted rage over those who have ignored their interests: the DNC, the liberal elites, Hillary Clinton, yet they have never once expressed a word of animosity toward the man who single-handedly demolished the US and global economy, spread VAST economic hardship across the land and caused millions of these same people to lose their homes, their jobs, everything. The same man sent thousands of these lower middle class Americans to get their hands, feet, legs and faces blown off in a war of aggression based exclusively on lies.
They reelect this monster, praise him to the skies, then turn around in 2016 and rally behind Donald Trump, a carbon copy of George Bush, another fat, repulsive liar and 1%-er con artist.
Greenwald wants us to believe these reprehensible dogshit bastards and their sickening Klan rallies are some sort of ‘worker’s revolt.’ It’s a huge joke and way beneath such an excellent and valuable journalist as Greenwald.
Hillary Clinton broke the cardinal sin of womanhood. From a male perspective, women are sacred, the bearers of life, truth, & honesty. Hillary broke that. No man in his right mind would marry a woman like her who lies or deceives. Hillary did both with each of her two faces.
As i have said so many times before, Hillary’s idea of great sex is screwing everyone but her husband and donors and i was not kidding to be funny.
“From a male perspective, women are sacred, the bearers of life, truth, & honesty.”
That’s nice. But I have this gnawing feeling that part of the problem is that when women have “leadership” roles, they are expected to behave like men. Would Hillary have made it to within inches of the presidency had she behaved like a woman? Or would she have been dismissed as weak, indecisive, and naive?
you are correct.
the temptation of persons like hillary are to pretend to be a man.
bad idea.
her focus should have been to emphasize caring for life and building in and reminding people that war is ultimately the losingest scenario. She did not embrace that faith.
I would say that Jill Stein would lead like a woman. She got 1% of the vote.
My issue is less with the fact that Hillary leads like a man, but that leading like a man got her as far as it did.
Except that it is empirically demonstrated reality:
It’s quite hard to explain white working-class voters voting for a black president suddenly voting for Trump this year for reasons of racism as opposed to their perceived economic interests.
The fact remains that their highest praise is for the Bush admin, the scum who caused the most economic devastation, BY FAR and they replaced him in 2016 with another drunken maggot preaching EXACTLY the same composite of racism, hypernationalism and stupidity as Bush. These vermin have absolutely no credible case and need to be rejected out of hand, not provided with justifications for their vileness.
Trump doesn’t drink –period ! You are a total wanker as are most of the rest that are commenting. Killary is a monster & needs to be locked up. Lets hope the Donald does that ASAP.
As for Trump being compared to Bush – – that’s a stupid & obviously false statement showing your total ignorance. All of you stupid Yanks deserve what you get. Trump with some luck will be hopefully be a lot better than your previous list of F$%# murdering ups.
DT is for a single payer system
DT despises war – it’s not a winning situation, way too expensive and destructive
DT has a huge history of leaning democrat
DT does not really give a flying leap about sexual preferences
DT will not sell American sovereignty to the TPP thieves
DT will not tolerate the occupation of America by border crashers and the ambitions of the mexican cartels.
Republicans would have allowed the auto industry and it’s 3,000,000 jobs, most located in Ohio and Michigan, to wither away like so much dust. President Obama with the support of Democrats and zero support from Republicans saved them from ruin. Today they are back on their feet and growing again. So why did they turn their backs of the people who did them right?
that was then, this is now.
Queen Hellary, queen of the TPP, was prepared to outsource the entire country.
Trump is never going to let that happen.
If you are so bent on hijacking the power of a country, why not take a trip to Syria or Iraq or Libya and make your proposals to them.
SAYANARA.
Barack Obama is not Hillary Clinton. They “turned their back” on Hillary “TPP” Clinton, who is a paid shill of Goldman Sachs. Whether Donald Trump can be believed or not, he campaigned heavily — targeting the rust belt — on the theme of bringing jobs back and ending all these grossly unfair trade agreements that kill U.S. jobs.
As for your comment AT 9:36, the referent is unclear. If you mean the white, rust-belt voters who went Obama in ’12, and for Trump yesterday, your comment is a mere pile of undemonstrated and overwrought assertions.
Is this parody? If not, I think you should strap on your favorite weapon and head for, say, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas or Nebraska and get going with your extermination crusade.
I’ll buy your ticket if you agree to let me film it.
That’s probably not a credible scenario, though it is obviously orders of magnitude less far- fetched than EVER arriving at a decent outcome through your sleazy, debased clown act of an electoral system.
wow
normally one might suggest a nitecap, down the hatch, sleep it off.
on the other hand, some people in fits of rage prior to drinking get amplified and things get real crazy.
chill. the world wont end. donald isnt going crackers. life is still worth living. let’s not read about somebody nicknamed rykart losing it and shooting up some place, ok?
It must be pleasant to be enough of a cement head to fail to grasp the catastrophe that has just taken place. Don’t worry. It will begin to sink in.
——————————————
September 15, 2016
…
Transcript Trump speech on jobs
As I stated, the so-called disenfranchised middle class traded their adored monster George Bush for a carbon copy of the small government send all the $ to fat scum like me Donald Trump.
These people are due nothing but total contempt. I hope they bleed to death.
You mean a “carbon copy” of the guy who refused to vote for him? The guy who favored free trade and still backs Iraq?
Oh yeah–a radical departure. That’s why he’s already packing his cabinet with Bush scum:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics/donald-trump-transition-drain-the-swamp/
Here’s a thought: stop talking.
Not interested in your commentary. I simply pointed out that your, “as I stated” was so much speaking out of ignorance or lying in what I quoted from you. Only you can say which it was. Either way, it’s all right there to see in black letters with white background.
The fact that your favored imbecile mouthed some idiotic platitudes while having a lengthy, documented career as a con artist who screwed the working class every chance he got, cheated the tax system and acted exactly like every other Republican scumbag in the past 50 years is predictable. No one listened to or cared about this baboon’s economic policies. You’re being dishonest. They flocked to him for his anti-Muslim hate speech, his unhinged rantings against Mexicans and his promises to gut the environment. Be honest–if only for novelty’s sake.
Are you honestly too dense and or stubborn to realize that my only reason for posting the transcript was to show that your statement was bogus and ignorant? My posting of it had nothing to do with what “your favored imbecile” said, except, of course, that he addressed what you claimed he never did. This is all too simple that it shouldn’t need triplet explanations.
I’m proud of you. In a silly “gotcha” moment you present some horseshit one of Trump’s lackeys wrote for him about the economy. You want a medal? That does zero to change the fact that his constituency was plainly drawn not to his “innovative” ideas about spurring the economy nor his opinions on race car driving. They flocked to him for the race-hatred Islamophobia, gun lunacy and vileness he spouted day in and day out at every single one of his Nazi rallies. You have absolutely no case.
You see, this is what never ends. People such as yourself who cannot simply say, “Oops, I was incorrect.” Why is that so difficult for you? Could you answer just that question, and that question alone? Really, I’m not at all interested in your hand waving, I’m only asking out of curiosity what it is that drives a person to be incapable of admitting to having made a virtually insignificant error instead of falling over one cliff after another in order to avoid just admitting the error.
hmm…don’t do a lot of reading, I gather? I already acknowledged your (goofy and desperate) non-point. Trump or one of his baboons did indeed draw up something they are calling in economic plan.
If you are unhinged enough to believe for one second that this “economic plan” is what drove his millions of followers to his sickening Nazi rallies where he regaled them hour upon hour about the ragheads and wetbacks we need to keep out of the country and how he would overturn any action on climate change, I feel sorta bad for you. No one deserves to be born with that lousy a brain.
That commentary by you is an example of what can be seen again and again used by nincompoops such as yourself who can’t help making fools of themselves, but are incapable of owing their foolishness. What you’ve done there is easily recognizable; it’s called building a straw man, and then setting it aflame or knocking it down. It’s an old cheap and transparent tool used by disingenuous fools. You might consider giving up on pretending to be making points around here, and consider moving on to lodge yourself someplace where your simpleton argumentation might have a chance of landing on people who are naive enough to consider it.
Thanks for another content-free post. That seems to work well for you.
You’ve been subject to several “gotchas” in just this one sub-thread. One suspects this happens to you often.
whoa there bubba-floozey,
Donald Trump played the hand and the game that was provided to him and made it work with some collateral damage – that’s business the hardball way. But if you want to talk cons and thieves, that aint the Donald, that be Hellary Highwires and her Highrolling Horrendous Hord of Wallstreet Ganster thieves – throw in some Clinton Global Crime Initiative. She volunteered to be the bought and paid for hitwoman for wallstreet thieves that rob america every time they flood the country with their poison loan scheme. So you can cut with the Badboy Trump routine because the educated folks on this board are way above your paygrade.
The centerpiece of that plan is his $500B infrastructure rebuilding program. Mitch McConnell said it’s “not a top priority”. Tax cuts for the 1%, gutting banking regulation, that’s what they will put on his desk. Anything that will help the working man not a chance, it’s not in their DNA.
I don’t care, Randy Jabobson. I’m not here wasting my time trying to figure out what kind of relationship Trump and McConnell will forge. I was just showing “rykart” that he or she should consider doing some homework before posting comments around here.
“It was only a matter of time before instability, backlash, and disruption resulted. Both Brexit and Trump unmistakably signal its arrival. The only question is whether those two cataclysmic events will be the peak of this process, or just the beginning.”
Well, these two events can also be interpreted as wake up calls!
https://nicichiarasa.wordpress.com/2016/11/10/the-people-has-spoken/
That “BernieBros” smear and general mockery of millennials worked so well: What This Election Taught Us About Millennial Voters
Picking a rightwing VP like Kaine, and pandering to the GOP to pick up those disaffected with Trump — necessarily slapping the Bernie cohort, hard — was just a genius strategy. Yeah, the cohort who thinks “social democrat” is a positive political identification was really gonna be all about Tim Kaine and playing footsie with Republicans.
Yes, because bringing Trump to power is such a social democratic achievement!
It’s called human nature, something about which the geniuses at Team Clinton seemed wholly ignorant. Cory Doctorow explained it months ago:
We knew, even before Wikileaks released the excerpts of Hillary’s Goldman Sachs speeches, that she and her people thought of us us Bernie supporters as a “bucket of losers” with “low social capital.” Her and their every deed –and most words — reeked of that arrogance.
Last night was largely the consequence.
this is remarkably astute…
Hope y’all enjoy the consequences then.
Mona, my comment above is short-tempered and I regret it. I appreciate the extended nature of your reply. But I have deep reservations about the utility of table flipping. Whatever else Hillary might have done in office, it is very likely that she would have appointed federal judges that would have ruled in favor of reproductive rights. One of the likely consequences of a Trump victory will be further restrictions on the ability of low-income women in non-coastal states to obtain safe abortions.
Also, Snopes.com says the Hillary quotes are false:
http://www.snopes.com/hillary-calls-voters-bucket-of-losers/
“Whatever else Hillary might have done in office, it is very likely that she would have appointed federal judges that would have ruled in favor of reproductive rights. ”
You forget Hilary removed the reproductive rights, permanently, of hundreds of thousands of women in Iraq, Syria, Libya etc. And she wasn’t done.
I didn’t “forget,” I don’t accept the premise that the US, let alone HRC, is responsible for every violent death in Iraq, Syria, and Libya since 2003. People other than Americans have political and moral agency; they make choices, sometimes lethal ones.
If Millennials had comprised the entire electorate Clinton would have won 45 states. Just saying the long term future is indeed bleak for republicans and everything they are about to do will only make Millennials hate them more. Even white Millennials.
you sound as if you bet the farm on 2-faced hillary.
what did she do, promise you a high paying position on the TPP?
This presumes that people vote consistently over time. My paternal grandmother voted for Henry Wallace in 1948 and George Wallace in 1968. Not saying you’re wrong, but I don’t see it as a sure thing.
I largely agree with everything here; however, I think we make a big mistake by downplaying race and other forms of bigotry and the degree to which they were utilized by Trump. Are we more or less racist than we were eight years ago as a country? How does one even begin to assess that? I think the racial dynamics of our country, however, are in fact notably different and more tenuous than they were in 2008 and 2012. Take the Black Lives Matter movement and its subsequent backlash as merely one example. One of the largest most vocal and direct activist movements in the black community in decades emerged over the past couple of year, and what was the national response? “All Live Matter.” A total dismissal of the cause constructed on a doubling-down on white’s Americas demand for supremacy. This, of course, isn’t about just African-Americans either. Each subsequent “terror related” attack, for example, here or abroad changed the racial dynamics of our country and made scapegoating Muslim Americans that much easier for the right audience. Trump preyed on all of these things and more, road the steady drumbeat of race-baiting and fear-mongering pumped out by conservative media outlets, and clamped on to the generalized alienation from our government and political system that white America now suddenly feels. How we got here is undeniably multifaceted, and Democrats screwed up big time by selling out their base yet again (for lack of a better description), but to casually dismiss race and bigotry with a “yes, but” vastly underestimates the degree to which fear of the other in this country remains pervasive, the ways it’s still politically potent, and how easily it can be stoked for the sake of, say, one egomaniac’s wish fulfillment. Trump won because the vial, horrible things he said did not bother enough alienated aggrieved white people, and I believe this makes every person who voted for him complicit to one degree or another in that hate. Again, I concur with much of this article. But we are playing with fire if we allow the bigotry directed at minorities (whether Muslims, African-Americans, Mexicans, LGBTQ, women, or whomever else) by Trump and his followers to go unchecked.
Fair enough. But under what (reality-based) scenario will a Trump administration tangibly address the purported concerns of his supporters? And since when does juvenile nihilism justify the election of the pathologically inclined? Finally, given that it was prosperous white men who played a key role in the outcome, how does globalization fit in?
We have an electoral system in which there are virtually no requirements for voting other than attaining minimum age. Under such a system, no justification, or even explanation, is needed.
BTW, your dismissive, condescending tone is an excellent example of the smug elitism that those deplorable juvenile nihilists decided to blow into itty-bitty pieces. And they did so. Some people are really slow learners.
You exhibit such undisguised glee over Trump’s victory, I have to ask if you voted for him, (or are only maniacally fixated on defending the tapeworms who did).
Interesting autopsy of the election, addressing some of the same issues as Greenwald’s article and adding some original reflections:
John Pilger: ‘The truth is… there was no one to vote for’ (28 mins)
Thanks, Maisie. Pilger is one of the best.
Great video, thanks for the link.
Interesting, of course, but I’m not sure why he is so convinced that Sanders could not have beaten Trump.
Because Sanders would have had to win 270 EC votes against both trump and Bloomberg, who would have run had Bernie been the nominee.
I don’t know about that, but Pilger didn’t mention anything about Bloomberg. So your explanation doesn’t answer for Pilger.
Obviously, if you start with the a priori assumption that the voter scum can not be responsible for a bad outcome, then you have to come up with lunatic theories about how they WOULD have voted for the good guy, if only…
They couldn’t vote for Gore over psychopath Bush, they couldn’t vote for Kerry over psychopath Bush, they couldn’t vote for Carter over contra massacre hound Ronald Reagan, they couldn’t vote for Eugene Mccarthy over the crazed sadist Nixon who massacred millions of innocent people but they would have LEAPT at the chance to put the socialist Bernie Sanders in the White House.
It’s childish.
You’re absurd in that in every comment I’ve seen from you, you never address the actual question or subject. None of your blathering has anything to do with what might have happened if Sanders had been the nominee rather than Clinton. Real evidence we have that Sanders might have beaten Trump is that he out polled Trump by quite a lot in most all polls taken.
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-sanders
I wish he’d gone more into that. I don’t know what his logic is, exactly. I do know the word “socialist” is almost a curse word to many Americans, and personally I don’t believe the deep state would permit a confirmed economic anti-corruption activist such proximity to the real financial levers of the USA.
Goddamn, you can write man.
You forget the part where she rigged the DNC and lost the popular vote there, and estranged the greater Democrats, where Bernie had better polls vs Trump. She single-handedly shot herself and the DNC in the foot.
HATERS,HATERS, AND MORE HATERS.
Anyone aspiring to do a post mortem that is both thoughtful and truthful need not look much further than this article. Calling it a powerful and profound analysis would barely do it justice. Mr. Greenwald’s expansive intellectual prowess is blindingly on full display. I am delighted that such examination is being done, but I am equally dismayed that it will be lost on so many who continue to be afflicted with the sickness of the elite mind. It is that sickness, that dismissive and disgraceful mentally built on a compromised value system, that gave rise to Donald Trump, and more to the point, to his supporters. That is the truth, at least for tens of millions of people in this country (if not world), and little will change until that truth is heard and that sickness is healed.
… i have to agree with Joseph-Marie (1 April 1753 – 26 February 1821).
His 27 August 1811 “Letter 76″, on the topic of Russia’s new constitutional laws – published in Lettres et Opuscules says (English translation)
“Every country has the government it deserves”
and
“In a democracy people get the leaders they deserve.”
… looks like people know enough of the devil they know to suspect that they are better off (this time) with the devil they dont know.
… time will tell.
I prefer H.L. Mencken’s aphorism:
“Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”
yep Virginia Ham, that’ll do it too.
… nice.
Not all “elites” are democrats. Plenty of “elites” are perfectly happy having a useful idiot in the white house slashing their taxes. What incentive to they have to fix things for middle America? The problem isn’t that middle America voted against “elites,” the problem is that they voted for a con man who won’t fix their problems. The GOP has figured out that they can actively sabotage the government and then blame Democrats when it doesn’t work.
Exactly.
“Even stalwart Democrats fond of casually branding their opponents as bigots”
Glenn, you say this like you think the word’s been overused this election cycle. How so? Trump’s bigotry is real. A policy such as banning Muslims from entering the country is the very definition of a bigoted policy. That it’s become a mainstream view that tens of millions of Americans apparently support does not somehow make it not bigoted.
As for who to blame, I’ve read plenty about how Clinton was a flawed candidate (she was), the FBI inappropriately screwed with the election (they did), or who or whatever else people want to blame, but I keep coming back to personal responsibility. Trump’s gross unfitness for the job has been clear for a long, long time. His bigotry, racism, sexism, ignorance, etc. have all been clear for a long time. People voted for him anyway. Either they were okay with his more loathsome and disqualifying traits, or they refused to believe those things were real despite the very abundant and easily accessible evidence to the contrary. If they missed it because they think a “news source” like Breitbart is just as credible, if not more so, than the likes of the AP or the NYT, it’s their own dumb fault. They should know better.
This one’s primarily the fault of the voters. Everything else is a sideshow. They’ve chosen a terrible person, a man who is horrifically unqualified and unfit to lead, to be our next president and it’s no one else’s fault.
So well written….question is how do we get this message to main stream…and change going forward…
trump worked the electoral college game with a carnival barker direct-democracy approach
the dude is a genius
As always an insightful and articulate piece that goes right to the heart of the matter. I count Glenn Greenwald among the finest minds of our generation. As to the article, particularly the third point about the investment of autocratic power in the executive branch worries me. I don’t really don’t see a republic congress and a Trump White House staffed by lobbyists from the military industrial complex, try to restrain their own exercise of power.
Mr. Greenwald
Globalization has become the scapegoat of the elite left. Globalization is a natural process that connects people in various locations on earth. There was never a way to stop the process once European colonization began 600 (+/-) years ago. You cannot reverse the process today. By attempting to renegotiate Nafta, Cafta and the TTP, Trump could start destructive trade wars which raise prices – and no one wins. Corporate tax breaks are the best way to lure industry back to the US (like Apple in Ireland).
“………..The indisputable fact is that prevailing institutions of authority in the West, for decades, have relentlessly and with complete indifference stomped on the economic welfare and social security of hundreds of millions of people. While elite circles gorged themselves on globalism, free trade, Wall Street casino-gambling, and endless wars (wars that enriched the perpetrators and sent the poorest and most marginalized to bear all their burdens), they completely ignored the victims of their gluttony, except when those victims piped up a bit too much — when they caused a ruckus — and were then scornfully condemned as troglodytes who were the deserved losers in the glorious, global game of meritocracy……..”
Globalization has been in progress for 600 years (and longer). Europe (especially France, Spain, Britain and Portugal) expanded their empires into the new world impacting (and destroying) indigenous populations throughout the world. Globalization accelerated during the late nineteenth and twentieth centuries connecting the world through their economies and lifting hundreds of millions of people in the third world out of abject poverty – especially in India and China. This was a positive aspect of globalization which redirected wealth to the third world – and raised their standard of living. By the end of the twentieth century, the economies of the world have become so interconnected that any suggestions of reversing the process are absurd.
Multinational corporations operate between developing economies and the west bringing cheap goods to rich western nations – and jobs to the third world. Jobs were lost in the west due to the cheap wages, and lax environmental and safety standards in the developing world. This has become the catalyst for the anger in the west. Midwestern states carried the election for Trump who promised a “great” economic revival. The Midwest represented former industrial centers in the US.
There is a lot of push back to globalization in the world – and not just because of jobs lost in the west. Globalization has resulted in the migration of people to the west for economic opportunity (or because of wars). The preservation of cultures (multiculturalism) is another aspect of restraining globalization. Self-determination by ethnic minorities and religious opposition to secular democracies are two more responses (in part) to globalization. Radical Islam is also partly driven by opposition to western ideas/culture imposed on Muslim societies. There are many other manifestations of globalization, but the redistribution of jobs to the third world has been one of the most contentious issues.
Globalism is not inevitable. Trump (not my guy but I did vote for him begrudgingly) wants to renegotiate trade deals so that they are fair, if trade partners have issues with that then I guess they will miss out on our business. It seems to me your viewpoint is that the natural progression of the world economy is that the wealthy nations need to be brought down to the level of the poor/developing countries. That elitist attitude (I’m prospering, screw everyone else, let them eat cake) is exactly why Trump and Bernie were so popular this election cycle.
I’d argue that scapegoating globalization is a tool of the fringe left. Jill Stein being the case in point.
Thanks. I agree.
Phew! That was close. For a moment there I thought feathers were going to fly between you two hotheads.
Craig’s is a refreshing voice around here. He brings a lot of originality and thought to his posts, and presents it in a respectful manner.
I can tell he is doing something right because he pisses off a lot of TI’s conformists who result to name calling or character attacks.
Another one of his strong traits is that he writes clearly and doesn’t blabber on about vague nonsense such as the all-encompassing “establishment” or peddle “deep state” conspiracies like some people do around here…
Thanks Nate. I am sure you don’t always agree with me, but from the reactions of other posters, it’s clear that many of the posters here are not looking for a debate of the issues, but more simply a reinforcement of their world view. Of course, that’s what makes posting here enjoyable. Keep up the really good work.
Maise
“……..Doug Salzmann ? Maisie
November 9 2016, 10:33 p.m.
Please do not feed the Nate.
You are clearly stepping out of line Maise. You really need to to listen to Mona’s little kiss-ass, Doug.
The problem with globalization isn’t really that it transfers money from workers in rich countries to workers in poor countries. In theory that might eventually leave all the workers rich, since one person can lose 10% to allow another to make 100% more.
The problem is that workers in some countries are afraid that they will disappear in the middle of the night and turn up in pieces or in a mass grave if they talk about better pay or stopping the pollution of their town, and companies in other countries threaten to move if they can’t get those workers disciplined to the same high standard.
The deals aren’t always unfair because of government cheating on currency and such – sometimes they are unfair because companies in some countries don’t have to worry about what they dump in the river. Or because if an importer in the Philippines switches from the local brand to a U.S. import, someone might declare he’s a drug dealer and next week he might be hung in the street by anonymous vigilantes, while the comparable situation in America means the U.S. company goes out of business.
But mostly the U.S. gets hit in these deals because while our congressmen luuuve free trade as an idea, they have no interest in pursuing trade advantage. I mean, in China they have largely banned sci-fi and horror because those are foreign genres that the U.S. sells a lot, and they don’t want to import them – the U.S. has no appetite to do the same with chronicles about medieval China. But even beyond that, the congress is more than happy to ban slaughter of horses, but not the import of horse meat, or to mandate that scanners made in the U.S. block out certain frequencies, while those abroad might cover all of them, or to more or less destroy an indigenous food tradition like root beer by banning sassafras out of overblown fears of either cancer or usability for making meth (probably the latter, but they won’t admit it). The notion of destroying a national export just doesn’t even *bother* them, even as they make the country utterly dependent on winning a trade competition.
In this regard Trump might have some advantage, but I think he’s just another babe in the woods flailing about with random ideas on trade that won’t work. He’ll probably get the U.S. hit with quintuple as many punitive tariffs as he imposes, then give up on imposing any more because the people are upset that too many things in the market have gotten expensive already.
I’m curious how many times GG can make this sort of argument and get away with it. Was Eugene McCarthy part of the evil democratic elite, grossly out of touch with the common working man or did Nixon triumph because the scum in this country were happy to see the United Stated rain napalm down on women and children in Indochina? The election was about nothing BUT the Vietnam war, and the filth who live here—the exact same people who have now brought us Trump—bear undeniable responsibility. 60 years after the Vietnam war, John McCain remains a leading figure, who was just reappointed governor for the 700th time, despite referring to the women and children he massacred as gooks.
It’s the people, stupid. They are the problem here. Not the DNC, not the cynical elites, not Hillary, not Cher, not Snoopy, and not Kim Jong Il. The American people are the problem.
“The point though is is that we all go forward with a presumption of good faith in our fellow citizens, because that presumption of good faith is essential to a vibrant and functioning democracy. That’s how this country has moved forward for 240 years. It’s how we’ve pushed boundaries and promoted freedom around the world. That’s how we’ve expanded the rights of our founding to reach all of our citizens. It’s how we have come this far.”
-Barack Obama , earlier today
We’re talking about a country founded on the extermination of the indigenous people, built with forced labor dragged in chains from Africa; the only country ever to use nuclear weapons (twice in 72 hours on civilian population centers) before going on an extermination jamboree in Indochina that makes the holocaust look like a civics class.
I’m not going to offer a “presumption of good faith” to people I know for a fact are Nazi rodents. If my self-hating liberal colleagues wish to do so, that’s plainly their prerogative.
Dehumanizing the “other” is the first step toward every atrocity we humans commit. Obama’s message here is important, because the alternative pushes us toward the very violence you claim to lament.
“Now, everybody is sad when their side loses an election, but the day after we have to remember that we’re actually all on one team. This is an intramural scrimmage. We’re not Democrats first. We’re not Republicans first. We are Americans first. We’re patriots first.
We all want what’s best for this country. That’s what I heard in Mr. Trump’s remarks last night. That’s what I heard when I spoke to him directly. And I was heartened by that. That’s what the country needs — a sense of unity, a sense of inclusion, a respect for our institutions, our way of life, rule of law, and respect for each other.”
…after he’s scorched the Earth
So well put. So spot on.
This makes so much sense, rings true to my experience. What I don’t understand is the household income breakdown with all but the 2 lowest brackets going for T. That isn’t explained here or elsewhere although I’m not reading much whining or finger pointing.
Very interesting analysis, but I do think it maybe strips people of responsibility too much. If Trump and Brexit were the WRONG answer to their grievances, shouldn’t their error be highlighted and critiqued?
Bye, bye NYT, Hello Glenn!
You self serving entitled parasitic elites are lucky you got Trump rather than the pitchforks you so richly deserve. You produce no food, clothing or shelter, mostly provide no useful services and when you do charge exorbitant prices for it. You ship our jobs out of the country and bring in illegals by the millions to keep our wages down. Our decent jobs are gone, our pensions-gone, our security-gone, our future has been stolen and drugs and suicide are rampant in the land, society for US has become so bad. We are well on the way to Upton Sinclair’s “Jungle” and in the places we shipped our jobs like Bangladesh (where the PM and the leader of the opposition are Women), the young poor women work 12/16 hours a day in dangerous sweat shops and go home with the foreman. Obama was only good for elite Black people; the slums are uninhabitable. Millions of Black families were swindled out of their homes and chucked out on the streets and Geithner in his own book says HARP was never meant to help them and Female Blacks vote for Clinton at 95%. They make the worst Red Neck white men look fair. Read Bill Presses book, “Buyers Remorse” to get a longer list of Obama failures to the working classes, black, white and Hispanic. Obama came in as a Corporate Lawyer as was his wife; his largest contributor was the employees of Goldman Sachs; the Vampire Squid. He expanded the Afghanistan war, spending more hundreds of billions, murdered people around the world and Hillary would have been more of the same only on steroids. Good bye and good riddance to the Clinton, Bush II, Obama Regime and good luck to the Trump Regime and all the rest of us. BTW, no one is or is likely willing to do anything substantial enough to reverse the Climate Changes we already have let alone what is to come as 1.6 billion new HFC AC units come on line over the next 10 years spewing GH gas 10,000 times as potent as CO2. At least I believe Trump is less likely to get us into Nuclear War compared with bloodthirsty Clinton. We could have had Bernie but for the corruption of the DNC; a pox on their house!
Superb compendium, as ever from Greenwald, of the root causes of Brexit and Trump’s victory. Note to the Liberal class: if you willfully consign swathes of your population to the economic scrapheap, what would a sane and rational person expect the upshot to be? Reflect on this honestly and then you might begin to grasp why you have had your ass handed to you twice in 6 months. What on earth did you expect them to do? Live on their knees in perpetuity?
One of the reasons Trump won was nationalism and many voters felt US citizens primarily white middle age workers were being displaced by minorities flooding the US from an unsecure border. These voters were voting for their survival and not to be pushed to the back of the line behinds illegals who are currently getting the perks and freebies of the US government first.
Of course the media is going on and on about Trump and the mysterious convergence of forces that got him elected and paying surprisingly (not really) little time about just how sucky Hillary was as a candidate. Trump got elected for two main reasons: one, he might shake things up in DC and two, he wasn’t Hillary.
People choose an bullying, blowhard outsider over a corrupt, incompetent insider. Who could have possibly seen that coming? I was surprised Trump was so easily able to overcome the opposition of the established power structure and it’s media lapdogs. I figured he’d put up a good fight but his easy victory was shocking.
Now we have to survive a Trump presidency which will be the most contentious in history (well except for the Lincoln presidency) and thank god we avoided a Hillary presidency.
The problem with the “Pennsylvania voters can’t be racist because they voted in Obama in 2012″ line is that there’s no evidence that these are the same individual voters. A much more plausible explanation is that non-racist, progressive voters who supported Obama in 2012 stayed home, while Trump was successful at mobilizing a kind of Republican tea-party voter that was utterly uninspired by Romney. None of this tells us how racist or non-racist Pennsylvania voters are. My sense is that Trump’s racist dog whistles are as much or more about his being “non-elite” and “authentic” for many Republican voters. But racism factors in too. And that’s where the “if only it had been Bernie!” argument has to make you wonder. You don’t see the likes of Alex Jones going on and on about how they think Bernie is a secret Rothschild if he gets the Democratic nod? If you don’t, you’re deluding yourself.
Yup, keep focusing on ‘racist dog whistles’ and ignoring what a horrid candidate Hillary was. That’ll serve you well in future elections.
On point as always!!! Glenn Greenwald just states very clear for everyone to see and to get it!!!
bingo
Something positive might come from all this. I bet Democrats will scrutinize and think about every little thing the US government does from this moment on. Routine abuses, like assassinating people at will based on suspicion alone, the persecution of whistleblowers, the meddling in the affairs of others, etc., will be noticed for once.
Really? Like they did with Bush junior?
Indeed, Obama has gotten away with murder, and (to add environmental ruin to your list) Obama’s massively dangerous “all of the above” strategy with regard to fossil-fuel extraction is identical to Trump’s “unleashing Big Energy” – but Trump, being a (boo…hiss…) Republican might meet with resistance from not only the actual left but Democrats, too. But if this all reverts again to the theater of “Oh how wonderful it would be if neoliberal Democrats had more power” I think I’ll wear myself out face-palming.
Obama has been a president in the hands of the hawks, his weakness came from the color of his skin, never dared to contradict them.
This is absolutely true Jose, and the left should exploit it for what it’s worth because it will last exactly as long as they are out of power.
‘You are made to hate each other because upon that hatred is rested the keystone of the arch of financial despotism which enslaves you both’ – Tom Watson, American Populist leader, late 19th C
Like every elitist commentator who thinks they “get” it, you really don’t. But thanks for playing.
Do you have anything, anything at all of substance to rebut or refute what was written that you think will illuminate readers as to what it is that you know that Greenwald doesn’t? Because, as it stands now, your tiny-personage rest on, “thanks for playing.” That’s not likely to impress even your own mommy, is it?
A pretty good article. Hits most of the points fairly well. Scott Adams (from the Dilbert comic strip) also predicted a Trump victory along with Michael Moore and Matt Taibbi.
How America Made Donald Trump Unstoppable
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-america-made-donald-trump-unstoppable-20160224
Great column. Yes their own hubris brought them down. Calling a huge block of people deplorable is not the way to win an election but Hillary truly believed he was invincible. I was an elite but they just went too far and I felt it was time for change – to stop their cruelty and there is no better word to describe the their death march. It had to stop but now where are we? Maybe worse off. I just couldn’t bring myself to vote for Hillary or Trump – the 2 nightmare candidates so I voted for Jill Stein. I live in CA so had no connection to the outcome. The Dems made a huge mistake in their radical right turn and ignoring all their former supporter. How dumb can they be? I thought. Hillary and Bill were completely blinded by their own self worship. I knew they would crash eventually but I didn’t want to go down with them. Too bad, They brought down so many people with them. That is the saddest outcome of all.
I came very close to voting for Jill Stein, but Trump said he would stand up for working people and “Drain the Swamp” in Washington, etc. So I pretty much had to vote for him.
I voted for Obama in 2008. Obama said many things I agreed with, but he either couldn’t or wouldn’t deliver. Time to give someone new a chance.
“It goes without saying that Trump is a sociopathic con artist obsessed with personal enrichment: the opposite of a genuine warrior for the downtrodden. That’s too obvious to debate.”
Nothing like keeping an open mind.
You commit the very sin you are attributing to others.
Oh please, Donald Trump has a financial, business and personal as well as celebrity history. Far, far more than enough to merit Greenwald’s (accurate) assessment.)
Boundless faith in the American “people.”
Yes of course, they WOULD have elected Bernie Sanders in a landslide, but instead, they turned out for a Josef Mengele wannabe who talks of booting the ragheads out of the country and waging unrestricted war on what’s left of the environment. Secretly, though–they really wanted Bernie.
Does that make the SLIGHTEST sense?
See, e.g., the Tim Carney tweet.
C’mon, you can be more flexible in your thinking. Stop listening to the Davos crowd for abject propaganda masquerading as wisdom.
Yup..it was clearly a rebellion against the Davos crowd. When Trump supporters shout “kill all the niggers” what they really mean is that neoliberal trade policies and globalization have failed to deliver on their promises of economic growth and prosperity.
LOL!
I think many of them wanted what Obama had promised: Change.
When Bernie got fucked, they only had two shitty choices left, and Hillary was not about Change. Sure the guy is an asshole, but at least in their minds, he’s a completely different asshole…
I thought that was the point of GG’s great article.
He’s only a different assshole in terms of being a far worse asshole. Otherwise, he’s a textbook Republican con artist, no different from any other Republican. He has already announced his plans to install Gingrich, Giuliani and the bloated parasite Christie to his cabinet. If you’d rather blame so-called liberal elites than the American scum who voted for this monster–hey..it’s a free country. Count me out.
rykart, you’ve been out, …you just didn’t realize it yet. Your class bigotry is like unto what I’ve run into in academia for 40 years by now. You accept rumors about those who disagree with you as ultimate truth about them, and listen to no one who disagrees with your evaluation of them. You, like most of academia, have found the people you want to exclude from the body politic, and you are disgusted to find they are the majority.
“You, like most of academia, have found the people you want to exclude from the body politic, and you are disgusted to find they are the majority.”
I agree with that assessment completely, except for your use of the word people. They are not people.
“They are not people.”
You, and people like you, are why Donald Trump will be the next President of the United States. He is my fist in your face.
Thanks mate, I appreciate your reply. Your “American scum” is all too apparent to people who do not live in America. NASCAR/WWE/Duck Fucking Dynasty et al is incredulous to the rest of the world, and we wonder how it is not to the smart Americans we all know. To underestimate their power and to do even less to provide them with better choices to improve themselves and their countrymen, is how we have all ended up with the shitshow we’re now in. I hope that giving up works for you, cause right now a tonne of folks with imminent type 2 diabetes and big gulps in their car cup holders are feeling mighty empowered :|
But surely not all and any change is good? If we were all to live underwater it would be a great change, but an unwelcome one.
Between the “change” promised by Trump and the despairing status quo represented by Hillary, I think it’s a no-brainer to choose the status quo until the change you really want is actually possible.
“Does that make the SLIGHTEST sense?”
It’s less stupid than your rhetorical question.
The electorate doesn’t vote on the basis of “sense” but on their feelings, and their sense of who is or is not patronizing them. Hillary Clinton dripped with ill-concealed contempt for much of the electorate. they responded by voting for……….. a narcissistic vengeful man. And they knew it; they voted for him without enthusiasm.
I known a number of Trump voters. 3 of them, all men over 50, volunteered (unprompted) their distaste for their choice when speaking to me about their decision. They simply hated Clinton more. They might have voted for anyone other than Trump if anyone remotely palatable had been provided. Even an old Jewish ‘socialist’.
I have little ‘faith’ in the American people. However, I have more regard for them, as a group, than for the bitching, scolding, snotty ‘progressive left’ that has been sneering and bleating its way around the blogosphere these past few weeks. You darlings of the socially correct Elect just plain suck.
“Darlings of the socially correct Elect.” That’s quite a fancy way of referring to people who happen to not be Nazis.
I guess your friends should be let off the hook for helping to elect a piece of filth from the toilet who is about to lay waste to the environment and probably start a fucking nuclear war, because they did so with great reluctance. Touching stuff.
I don’t suppose spending the election cycle calling half the country “Nazis” and “not people” had anything to do with the “surprising” turnout for Trump?
At least a pro wrestling heel *knows* what he’s trying to accomplish by insulting and demeaning the audience.. You, on the other hand, have been campaigning for Trump without even realizing it.
Were voters being “demeaned” when they chose Richard Nixon over antiwar candidate Eugene Mccarthy or were they simply bloodthirsty filth from the sewer of the sort this country produces in shocking abundance?
You have no case.
I wasn’t there, and I don’t see the relevance given that there is no “antiwar candidate” in 2016. I’m talking about yesterday, and the effect of the aforementioned class bigotry on voter turnout.
+10
Nice to see you. Thanks.
Go back to Maths class. Donald Trump could not have won the election without large swathes of the people that voted for Obama, Josh Earnest even admitted this today. This was F all to do with racism. It was rallying against a corrupt system and cronyism, which is why Bernie was shown time and time again to beat Trump in polling, beyond any level of doubt. Do some research.
This article is so spot on – it is beyond belief. It helps explain why while I consider Trump to be a misanthrope , a part of me is happy he won. The part that is happiest is that the Clintons are done, banished, and hopefully never to return.
Mr. Greenwald
“……….It’s astonishing that those of us who tried frantically to warn Democrats that nominating Hillary Clinton was a huge and scary gamble, that all empirical evidence showed that she could lose to anyone and that Bernie Sanders would be a much stronger candidate especially in this climate — are now the ones being blamed: by the very same people who insisted on ignoring all that data and nominating her anyway……”
You love to credit yourself, but I am not sure what for in this case. You seem to be suggesting that the votes for Hillary which won her the nomination over her close rival Sanders were controlled by the DNC elites i.e., the DNC fixed the nominating process in her favor. How is that possible? Real people pulled the levers in the voting booths in each state. Hillary won enough states – and enough delegates – to win the nomination. Simple. True, the superdelegates are a way to ensure that in a close race, the elite within the democratic party can control the outcome, but even with the superdelegates subtracted, Hillary won the delegate count – and the nomination fairly easily.
Of course, Clinton was the preferred candidate of the DNC. Biden and Warren would have been a better candidates (in hindsight) – and both would have likely won because Hillary was so corrupt and beholden to the banks and Wall Street (“crooked Hillary”). Possibly both were pressured not to run because it was Hillary’s turn. Regardless, with Hillary running, this was the perfect storm for Trump.
Did you read the report by Stanford University on the manipulation of the DNC primaries to thwart Bernie in favour of Hillary? No to Warren –she has a vulnerable background and Biden –well??? But WHY do you need to look there when you had a perfectly good candidate in Bernie.
Sigh– it is sooooo frustrating living by you guys sometimes…
Here you go, Craig.
Interesting Jose. Thanks. I wonder if Greenwald is aware of this report.
Yeah, seen that a long time ago. It’s crap.
I did not read the entire report in detail. I do not have the time or inclination. I read from start through section II.F and then scanned through a few other sections, stopping in a couple of places where I had some familiarity or there was an easy set of data to look at. There’s enough BS in that to make looking further no value.
The authors have a large burden of proof to clear. The implication is a conspiracy across city, county, state, and party lines that resulted in a very large national vote discrepancy for a single political party’s primary. That requires extraordinary proof.
My feeling from what I read: they don’t even come close. Given the items I found on a cursory look, I have no reason to even take the time to dive into any of the rest of the report. Three standout items:
On page 38 there is a section on Massachusetts primary results not matching the exit polls. Following the information back to the source, the exit polls are here from CNN: http://www.cnn.com/election/primaries/polls/ma/Dem. In the original they state that the CNN exit polls predicted a 52.3% share for Bernie. Simply looking at the first table, that is obviously false. A simple calculation:
42% of respondents are men, and 41% of those voted for Clinton
58% of respondents are women, and 57% of those voted for Clinton
Clinton’s vote percentage is thus (42% * 41%) + (58% * 57%) = 17.22% + 33.06% = 50.28%
That closely matches the actual result of 50.1%. They’re smart when they present this evidence, they make you dive through another report to get to the actual source. That’s master-level obfuscation.
On pages 5 & 14 they describe Brooklyn purges disproportionately impacting minority voters. I’m not surprised by that basic fact. However, in New York, the exit polls show that 75% of black voters and 64% of Latino voters went for Clinton (same poll source as used in Mass, CNN: http://www.cnn.com/election/primaries/polls/ny/Dem). Either one of two things here: Clinton lost more votes than Bernie, or there’s some magic whereby those purging know exactly who the Bernie voters are. Absent actual evidence or proof of telepathy, the first is more likely.
On page 13 they call out Arizona’s voting issues. Why is this even relevant? Both candidates agreed this was a problem and filed suit together, and Justice investigated. Not sure how this impacted Bernie in particular.
I’m sure more time could be wasted trying to determine if they are misrepresenting their source data as bad as the above, but I’m not playing their game.
Bernie lost. By 3 million votes. He under-performed in virtually every contest he ran. He ran a lousy campaign. Deal with it.
A bit surprising that I did not notice any comment below that Julian Assange’s adroit release of the Podesta emails was an important element of crushing Hillary.
Then you missed my comment
My apologies. Missed it
Banksy’s “Dismaland” comes to mind.
Wonderful piece Glen. As a Marxist troll, I appreciated it. I think less hypocrisy by liberals would serve them well. They do not hold Democrat politicians to the same standards as they do Republicans. This results in what you have referred to as epistemic closure or, more simply, double standards in the evaluation of public servants.
I am positive if Sarah Palin had been president these last eight years and had done what our current president has done, liberals would be up in arms. She would have been the first president to claim the right to kill anyone without judicial oversight. She would have been found by the courts to have violated constitutional law after the Snowden revelations. Liberals would have revered Snowden, and called for her impeachment.
They would have been up in arms over the bomb trains, pipelines, fracking permits, the offshore permits, and other anti-environmental policies that have been enacted by the Obama Administration during the last eight years. They would have been outraged at the EPA coverup of Flint and not rushed to see Republicans misdeeds in Flint.
If a conservative had bombed Libya into the stone age without congressional approval and then armed Jihadists in Syria, you can bet liberals would resurrect their tired anti-war movements. If Sarah Palin had backed the far-right Nazi groups of the Ukraine and then appointed her Vice President’s son [Hunter Biden] to the board of the largest gas company in the Ukraine, liberals would not be able to stop talking about it. If she had re-ignited the cold war with Russia, you can bet liberals would be calling her the most dangerous president ever.
But dear leader Obama did these things, so liberals stick their head in the sand as the environment continues to decay, as wars continue to flourish, as the cold war has returned, as Obama calls for a modernization of our nuclear weapons, while at the same time blocking votes in the UN that would ban nuclear weapons.
Liberals are psychologically needy. They need a daddy or mommy to worship and a big bad wolf (Palin, Trump, etc) — so they can feel they are saving the world. I would advise liberals to get back to the basics — everyone who holds office is a public servant, not a god. You should hold those you give your vote to with even higher standards than those you never liked.
Great comment, Jamie
ummm…the other side just elected a cult leader.
Whose got the “daddy” issues again?
I’m pretty sure Nate’s got you squarely on that list of scapegoats, Glenn, you durned Putin-lover.
Nah, Glenn’s failures didn’t have any substantive outcome on the election. My point is that his methodology for covering the election was absolutely misguided and fueled the prevailing narrative among many that the candidates were equally flawed, or that the outcome made inconsequential, leading to the same path. If you want to discuss, don’t be afraid to respond directly to my post. No need to be passive aggressive.
Well, now you know why he supported Sanders so many times … he misguided himself; along with the rest of the us.
Came here expecting more delicious tears and instead saw my soul laid bare. Registered Democrat who voted the other way for the first time in twenty years. The system is broken and it can’t be fixed. Might as well blow it the fuck up.
Trump will govern similarly to Obama, just delegating everything to professionals and basking in the glory of being a figurehead. The murdering and the corporatism and the deportations (remember Obama has deported more than anyone) may take on a different hue, but it’ll be similar. In my opinion.
I understand why you voted the way you did – Hillary Clinton is a dangerous person – but I think you’d be better off voting third party and/or getting involved in grassroots organizing. At the end of the day, both parties are to blame for the system being broken. So why give either one your support?
Note that the beauty of this exchange is in the genuine respect toward the original comment that is evident in both of these responses.
Yes there is a way forward. Yes.
“as contemptuous of” not “contempt for”
Really?! That fails the sniff test for me, since I’m an Intercept reader. No one could credibly accuse this site of ever once being fair to Trump or ever once criticizing Hillary to the extent she deserved. Whatever. Perhaps you are criticized by dumbasses.
No, I think…
Oh. There are a number of “indisputable” claims in this article that I’m glad you explicitly point out — it saves me from thinking for myself. And yes, I do prefer self-styled incontrovertible assertions to arguments, thank you.
I’m also glad to have another analysis of the Trump phenomenon from someone who (i) never expected him to win and (ii) never understood his support in the first place. The entire analysis devolves to “this is, like, a total FU to the system, man, just like Brexit, and it’s totally the DNC’s fault to let that happen.” Deep shit.
As far as I’m concerned, HRC is on the same team as ISIS (funded by the very same people and pursuing the very same near-term goals), and she’s jeopardized national security, the least of her worries, in order to avoid FOIA requests. HRC is a traitor, and Trump is a patriot. Simple as that. I’m, eh, not poor and chair the GOP in my county, which voted almost 90% for Trump. I can assure you that no one here was trying to buck the “establishment.” We are trying to buck criminals (i.e. individuals) from power. You’d have to be stupid to think that the President can control globalization, income distribution, etc., and you’d have to be quite the patronizing blowhard to think that Trump’s support was based on the mistaken belief that Trump can dial all that back. WE DIDN”T WANT A FELONIOUS NINCOMPOOP IN THE OVAL OFFICE, period.
I know what you’re thinking — Trump is a nincompoop. Eh. 7 bestselling books? 12 well-rated seasons of the Apprentice? $1 million loan –> $10 billion fortune (with only four LLC bankruptcies, which is quite impressive on a relative basis)? And finally, the first time you ever run for any office you are elected to the most powerful seat in all of world history (spending <$5 per vote garnered — less than a third than Obama spent per vote in 2012)? If you scoff at Trump's achievements because you don't like his language, you're the nincompoop. We now have a highly competent patriot in the White House for the first time in 16 years. And Hillary (fingers crossed!) will die in prison. Let's celebrate, shall we?
You know you’re using sub numbering incorrectly.
How did you determine Glenn “never understood” the support for Trump? (you must have missed some of his work. maybe a tad too much Kahlua in your mug?)
Established criminals then. People don’t really trust Trump but they would rather throw a brick through the windshield of the established criminal party than continue with heartless bleeding of the majority.
The banks are not going anywhere. People want them to back off on the skim.
Nuf said, please don’t keep me ignorant of correct sub-numbering. Your infinite, sober wisdom is much needed. Otherwise you’ll just be the two-hit wonder your reputation reflects. If you disagree with nuf said, you’re either (i) drunk or (ii) a zionist, as we all know by now.
Nothing in your final point contradicts what I said, and the first, accusing me of missing Glenn’s articles, seems far-fetched. I mean, all we get now is some utter bullshit, straight from the asshole, every other week, so even a drunk like me can keep up with that. Hell, if you understand something I don’t (you know like the history of money and other Jewish(!) conspiriacies), please let me know so I can shoot myself before I go to work tomorrow. I really don’t want to go to work tomorrow.
“please don’t keep me ignorant of correct sub-numbering. ”
Lower case (i) isn’t what one counts their main points with. Upper case, please.
The prohibitionist mobsters had more cash money than the industrialists.
Just like the billionaire drug lords of the last so many decades, the bankers launder the cash. The mob was divided up like the Federal Reserve and guess who launders crime profits today while creating off-shore tax havens for their clients. Tell me that 3% skim they get on every transaction is not what it is.
There are some Credit Unions that operate as reputable financial institutions; Wells Fargo is not a reputable institution yet it is representative of big US banks.
But your pay-check shows up as long as you perpetuate the system. I get; not everyone has a functional conscience.
I find this whole thing amusing for two reasons. 1. Donald Trump may not be a politician but he is establishment. 2. He is part of the elite / 1%. How people cannot see this boggle my mind. But I get it.
People don’t typically vote based on logic. They vote on passion, the vote based on party, name recognition, they vote on anger, they vote on fear; and in 2008 they voted on hope. It is the rare person who actually sits down and does an analysis of the long term impact on proposals or really thinks about if said proposals are feasible.
Not surprising that so many people voted for Trump. Whites in this country are angry. They think the country they know is gone, having been stolen by the elites. They believe that non-whites now have an unfair advantage over them. They believe that they and they are alone are true Americans; glossing over the fact, that the country never belonged to them to begin with and that a) non whites of the Native variety where here long before them b) most other people have been here just as long as they have.
Honestly, I’m not that worried about Trump. I’m worried about what his supporters will do when they realize they’ve been bamboozled. That is scary.
I don’t fear so much what trump may do as president as much as I fear what his supporters may end up doing. I live in an area where there is a lot of racism. For the past couple months, there’s been some white guy with rebel flags shooting at brown skinned people while driving their cars. I have no idea if this person has been apprehended yet. but this is the sort of thing I am afraid that we will be seeing more of. I’m afraid that these people will see a trump presidency as their permission slip to pull out their worst behaviors. For all the people who refused to vote, I understand your refusal but I do wish that you had voted for Jill Stein. Even though Jill never would have won, voting for her really would have made a statement similarly to why trump supporters wanted to vote for trump. The one thing that I am afraid trump may do is cost me my job. I work in public health and we pretty well know how he feels about that.
‘For the past couple months, there’s been some white guy with rebel flags shooting at brown skinned people while driving their cars. I have no idea if this person has been apprehended yet. ‘
Really? Where do you live-Aleppo? Although, I can completely believe that our beloved press would suppress a white supremacist’s actions to protect their own beliefs. We see it all the time-cake makers, pizza places etc
I’m glad you bring that up, Tim. The lack of support for Jill Stein is extremely disappointing to me.
“She did all that without the slightest apparent concern for how that would feed into all the perceptions and resentments of her and the Democratic Party as corrupt, status quo-protecting, aristocratic tools of the rich and powerful: exactly the worst possible behavior for this post-2008-economic-crisis era of globalism and destroyed industries.”
One simple word explains why…. arrogance. The Clintons have been getting away with blatant corruption and criminality for decades with the support of a corrupted political party and media….. why would they think this time around would be any different?
It goes without saying that Trump is a sociopathic con artist
Totes. I mean, as is evident over the last 8 years has proven just how reliable leftoid judgments are, particularly when the oppornity of faux moral preening presents itself.
That racism, misogyny, and xenophobia are pervasive in all sectors of America is indisputable
This particularly vile slander against Americans is exactly why you fucktards lost this election.
Barack Obama is not a “leftoid.” He is a centrist and member in good standing of the elite establishment.
Most of us here lost the election when the DNC engineered it such that Hillary Clinton could be the only successful candidate and sandbagged the only progressive who stands up to the establishment.
And “you fuckheads” is not slander??
Precisely Ken. These leftist elites just saw their delusions exploded like never before and they again run back to their ‘racism, misogyny, xenophobia” rule book. *Women* elected Trump. They were not helpless fools given no choice. They had chosen Obama over McCain/Palin. It is an axiom among these morons that society is inherently misogynist. It is mathematically impossible. Half the population are women you know. The fact that male wages haven’t risen in real terms since 1970s is not a fact these guys are even aware of. Fortunately, the women who came in drives to vote aren’t spineless fools blinded to by their pet beliefs.
Glenn:
You say that elites, in their bubbles, did not see this coming. However, how successful do you think this movement would have been had it not been funded from another set of elites such as Robert Mercer, the Koch Brothers, etc.?
In my opinion, it’s just one set of elites and establishment trading around the wealth to another set of elites. As is usual, the common person gets the short end of the stick. Hedge fund billionaires are laughing all the way to the bank, while they have successfully divided the masses among themselves. Divide and conquer, from the time of Alexander the Great to Putin and Trump the Great.
Funny you have such worry over Mercer and the Kochs, but fail to mention the FAR LARGER amounts of money played by the largest campaign contributer in our nations history: Thomas Steyer, who contributes an order of magnitude more money than Kochs and Mercer compbined. Oh, that’s right. He’s a democrat supporter. Democrats using their deep pockets to influence people is, like, totally awesom and for the good of the republice. When libertarians or conservatives do it, though, it must be because of their deep seated evil, amarite?
i don’t think the koch brothers supported trump.
They didn’t, and they made it quite clear. You don’t need money if you have a message at precisely the right moment in history.
everyone responding to my post is missing my point. in the big scheme of things, the oligarchs win, “liberal” or “conservative” oligarch. what they have done is divided the masses so that we are killing each other to distract away from them.
sorry trump supporters…at the end of the day, trump will be all about the oligarchs not the common people.
In my opinion Clinton would have won if the establishment had continued to support her, but a friend pointed out that it seems in the last two weeks or so the elite realized she really was serious about antagonizing Russia – and rightly decided she was just too dangerous. Not coincidentally Trump began sounding more presidential in the last fortnight, a further indication that the elite had shifted to him. The deep state owns both Clinton and Trump, but if Trump’s rhetoric about refusing the TPP and war with Russia is followed through on, we have all just dodged a bullet or two.
I honestly thought the ruling class were going to go for Clinton in spite of her insane talk about war, but thankfully it seems the elite and the people were so loathing of her risky repulsiveness that she got the boot. Nuclear war does so interfere with profit margins, after all.
I wish more people had voted Green Party. If more had, the discussion about where to go from here would be far different (assuming third party votes were accurately counted).
Yep, Clinton would have started WWIII. Keep telling yourself that /s/.
Well, Stein goes into hibernation for approximately 4 years, but when she awakes, get right back to it!!
Thank you for your stupid opinion. I shall file it lovingly under ‘trash.’
Please do not feed the Nate.
Well, look who it is: Doug the “anti-Nostradamus” Salzmann. The guy who was fed up with Robert Mackey criticizing Trump because the polls foretold an easy Clinton victory and therefore said such articles weren’t necessary. I’m surprised you could summon the testicular fortitude to even up here in the immediate aftermath.
Clinton was prepared to risk it. What’s more, this “energized” many of her supporters.
Maisie’s observations are astute.
No, Maisie’s views are simple recitations of views held by several of the “TI establishment” and are anything but astute. They’re utterly predictable. Though, I’ll give her credit, they do read in a more comprehensible manner! But content-wise, are meaningless platitudes that paint a generic picture of “elites” and the ambiguous and all-encompassing “establishment.” Basically everything is or remains minutes away from being labeled as such.
This calculus holds that the most ideologically pure candidate is the best, even when they have no chance to win. It all seems so noble, until the dust settles on a day like today and Donald Trump is the President. Jill Stein will disappear off the face of the earth for the next 4 years. Trump won’t.
Instead of getting that “Green New Deal to turn the tide on climate change,” you’ve got a candidate who thought climate change was a Chinese hoax. Instead of embracing alternative energy, “oil and coal are seen as winners with Trump victory.” [Source: WSJ, google it]. Instead of getting a tolerant candidate, you get a President who thrives on hate, insults, sexism, bigotry and other base instincts. Instead of having a candidate that embraces regulation, you have an ardent opponent of the U.S. regulatory framework. Obamacare? See ya later! Accept more Syrian refugees? Um no, those children and women cannot be trusted, since they’re Muslims. Instead of a yearning for non-intervention abroad, you have a candidate driven to treat foreign relations like oil-based transactions.
The claim that Hillary was willing to risk WWIII is the type of fear-mongering that would make Republicans – such as Donald Trump – proud.
These are the same filth who supported the Klan, fought civil rights and cheered for America’s genocide in Indochina. Suddenly, it’s the fault of “liberal elites who are out of touch with the working man?!?”
That’s a bunch of bull.
Uh, yes it is their fault. They’ve spend the last 35 years telling blue collar workers that they were on their side. Then when elected the went about destroying the things that kept those workers with a modicum of financial security…while helping to usher in an era of unprecedented mass incarceration.
Then, every four years they’d come out of the woodwork and mouth all the right things…only to do it all over again. This time those lame platitudes fell on deaf ears. You’re god damn right it’s the fault of liberal elites.
Exactly– The total decimation of the middle/working class by the abandonment of the “New Democrats” finally bit them in the ass! But don’t worry about liberal elites– they will spend at least the next 2-3 years explaining (and being paid) what went wrong– throwing blame away from themselves and onto whoever fits their criteria at the time.
So sad– you see this time and time again in dying empires— the true apparatchek
Right. Just like the liberal elites forced these vermin to twice elect the born-again bacterium George Bush, who destroyed the economy, fucked the working class like no one in history and was still praised to the skies by these idiots. Could yu please quit making excuses for them?
Glen, is it possible that your friends at Wikileaks and the Russians could have possibly found a way to tamper with our elections? Look at the polls, look at the way each state conducts it’s elections, target the ones that are close but have some big electoral power. Then tamper remotely with small numbers of voting machines or databases, but spread your changes across the state so no one notices. Flip one or two and you hand the election to Trump.
It is my hope that Trump will keep his promises to break up the media monopolies. if he accomplishes just that alone I think we would be a better society for it. Now and for decades to come.
Julian Assange wrote on election day, and I paraphrase, that the media has put considerations ahead of truth. that has to end because that allows public corruption to entrench itself deeper than it could otherwise.
I, for one, look forward to 6 companies becoming 60, or, God willing, 600.
I don’t know, Glenn, I think Bibi looks a little worried:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOMG4IOfH0I
Excellent piece by Thomas Frank at the Guardian:
“Donald Trump is moving to the White House, and liberals put him there”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/donald-trump-white-house-hillary-clinton-liberals
Europe’s Jews lost because they were out of touch with Nazi sentiment and didn’t work hard enough to make themselves appealing.
That’s basically the argument here, (and I’m the biggest Greenwald fan in North America. He just happens to be wrong this time.)
‘Trust the voters’ is an even more inane catchphrase than ‘trust the markets.’ We have Trump for the same reason we have Jay Z. Because the majority always deliver filth.
Unfair comparison. Those who were ethnically Jewish had no say in the matter (they didn’t get to choose their parents), and could do little in response to Nazi sentiment (except get out, if they could). Hillary is loathed for her actions, something she does has control over.
I’m not talking about Hillary and her numerous shortcomings. I’m not talking about what fails to sell, but what actually DOES sell in this country, and that’s more guns, kill the ragheads, get the wetbacks out of our country: in short, a phylum of Nazism.
So you’re saying that all (I’ll even grant you the lesser, vast majority) of Trump supporters are racist? Bought into the “deplorables” thing, did you?
Economic insecurity is what tipped the scales to him. He’s part and parcel of the problem, no doubt, but he wasn’t the one trying to sell “keep the system and let’s massage it a little more so it trickles faster”. That was all HRC. Her own tax records showing her cashing out millions from those parasites on Wall Street didn’t help her either. It made her an easy target.
Plus she was silent on Standing Rock, supported TPP/NAFTA (something the RedHeaded menace came out against even though he manufactures his dreck in China and elsewhere), and multiple times both she and her surrogates poo-poo’d many of Sanders initiatives as to idealistic. She alienated what should have been relatively easy votes to count on. Because she and her neoliberal/neocon handlers couldn’t believe that the masses might actually wake up to their con.
Racism isn’t what won this for Trump. It was his (faux) economic populism that made the difference.
..with due respect, I don’t think you really believe what you’re saying.
Was “good jobs for all” Trump’s rallying cry or was it “build that wall!!” (to keep the Mexican Untermenschen from contaminating our country).
Was he attacking Hillary for her corrupt banking affiliations (that would be a laugh) or was he instead going after her for threatening to bring desperate Syrian refugees to his country?
It’s racism and Nazism. That’s the overwhelming motivator not only for the Trump vermin (who represent the moderate wing of the Republican Party) but ALL Republicans everywhere.
To a high school dropout that makes a living in light manufacturing, the construction industry, etc, “good jobs for all” and “build that wall” are kind of the same thing. They directly compete with illegal immigrants for jobs because they by and large both have the same level of education and abilities to offer employers. Namely, a strong back and semi skilled hands. It’s not inherently racism, although for some that’s probably the motivation, it’s also job protectionism. To a certain kind of person, say a low wage white guy that spends his day wearing a tool belt, anybody with a college degree that works in an office setting is part of the elite. You’ve never worked somewhere alongside illegal immigrants and worried that next month you were going to get laid off in favor of the illegal’s cousin because he’ll work for less than minimum wage just to stay in the country.
I grew up in Arizona. A pretty big chunk of my family are or were blue collar workers without college degrees. They don’t want to see illegal immigration curtailed because they hate brown people. They just want their old framing, or drywall, or paper plant job back. They want the same level of wages they used to get, inflation adjusted of course, before the job required them to be bilingual or pack their shit and go because the industry has been pretty much taken over by immigrant labor. Is there an element of racism, sure, but there’s also an element of economic self preservation that’s hard for upper middle class folks to really grasp. Even privileged white guys can end up competing with Jose the recent immigrant for work if he lacks a college degree or a high school diploma. Mock him if you want for dropping out, failing to better himself, or whatever, but it doesn’t change the reality that more immigration puts downward wage pressure on the industries that he works in. Will Trump actually do anything to fix this, I seriously doubt it, but at least he acknowledged that it exists. When is the last time you saw a Democrat talk about needing to fix education and job programs in rural America instead of the inner city?
Not to mention that after a few decades of getting kicked in the teeth by automation and globalization saying fuck it and throwing the equivalent of a human molotov cocktail at DC just sounds fun. You’re fucked either way, and nobody there really has a solution, so why not?
I didn’t vote for Trump, but I’m not surprised that so much of blue collar America did. The writing has been on the wall for a long time. Write them all off as racists if it somehow makes you feel better, but the idea that roughly half the country are secretly nazis is fucking ridiculous. The rust belt has had high unemployment, high suicide rates, high addiction rates, and a sense of being left behind for several decades. Sooner or later they were obviously going to stop towing the Democratic party line because it clearly hasn’t been helping them for a while.
Excellent post, Shaun and I think you make your case as strongly as it can be made. The only problem is that there WAS a candidate who did NOT make a fortune stiffing the very workers you are talking about, who is NOT virulently against minimum wage or any protection for workers, who is not an utterly corrupt ball of shit but rather, was an honest person who went to town after town after town speaking to the needs of exactly the people you are talking about. His name was Bernie Sanders. Did they come out in massive droves to propel him into the White House? No. At best they ignored him. They vote Republican.
Glenn, after you’re done playing Wednesday Morning Quarterback atop your soapbox, perhaps you could offer a critique of both TI’s and more importantly, your coverage of this election? Because from my vantage point, it appears that your decision to act as a restorative force against the broad anti-Trump media consensus dramatically backfired.
Glenn’s Slate interview:
A “corrective.” That’s a word I wouldn’t expect from you but from the Fox News’ and MSNBCs of the world whose strategy includes employing a bias to restore equilibrium to what they believe is an otherwise liberal or corporatist media. In other words, Glenn was less concerned with providing his own unvarnished take on Clinton v. Trump (it may have aligned with so many of those from the reviled MSM, god forbid!) but more interested in providing a contrarian or counter-narrative because he believed Trump had no chance of winning anyways. So while Glenn spoke sparingly of his belief that Trump is a “mentally unstable” and “psychologically unhinged” individual and a unique threat, he filled his articles to the brim with tangential hypocrisies and inconsistencies; and one-sided criticism in a contrived effort to go against the grain:.
Scanning through Glenn’s TI article titles from July to now, this calculus is quite clear. Not a single article focused primarily on Trump.
• Democrats’ Tactic of Accusing Critics of Kremlin Allegiance Has Long, Ugly History in U.S.
• Why did the Saudi Regime and Other Gulf Tyrannies Donate Millions to the Clinton Foundation?
• Congressional Democrats Call on FBI to Investigate Their Political Adversaries’ Kremlin Ties
• The Unrelenting Pundit-Led Effort to Delegitimize All Negative Reporting About Hillary Clinton
• Hillary Clinton: Boycotting North Carolina is Noble and Just; Boycotting Israel is Bigoted and Hateful
• Exclusive: New Email Leak Reveals Clinton Campaign’s Cozy Press Relationship
• In the Democratic Echo Chamber, Inconvenient Truths are Recast as Putin Plots
I don’t blame Glenn and the other prognosticators/pollsters for believing that Trump was destined to lose. Trump stunk up the debates, was losing in the aggregated polls, and is just a terrible person. That so many people could cast a ballot for such a reprehensible person as Trump is incredibly disheartening. Glenn’s true sin was acting as a “corrective.” By doing so, he utterly failed in his job as a journalist to help his flock of readers move beyond idealistic qualms with the two-party system into the realm of real-life consequences of a Trump presidency. We’re talking Trump’s complete disregard for civil liberties; the possibility of normalizing bigotry, sexism, and racism throughout our culture; and utter ignorance of government and the rule of law. Glenn simply did not perceive a Trump win as a genuine possibility and therefore was reticent to honestly chronicle the threat he presented. His indifference suggested that Trump’s antics were common knowledge and that scrutiny of Clinton wasn’t. Glenn decided that getting a head start on criticizing future President-Elect Clinton was the real priority. His forward thinking was a huge calculated risk and a terrible one. When President Trump continues to do and say reprehensible stuff, Glenn should be the last person that should say: “I told you so.” In the 2016 Presidential election, Glenn was at best a spectator and at worst a contributor to the false equivalence that Trump was an equal or better candidate. Yet here he is today, chiding others for residing in an echo chamber and wagging his finger at them for being caught by surprise.
Lastly, in the Slate article, Glenn pretends that he holds no influence. That’s simply not true and if it was, he wouldn’t reside on Twitter. So for someone who makes a living opining and promoting advocacy and “adversarial journalism, Glenn utterly wasted his influence. He never assessed and shared with readers which candidate best aligned with his and TI’s advocacy. Both candidates suck was his implicit contribution. But I think there is one other factor that led Glenn to adopt this misguided “corrective” approach: that Glenn was afraid to admit that Clinton was the better candidate (the lesser of two evils if you will) than Trump because it could open him up to significant criticism, being labeled a Hillary shill, angst among his Twitter horde, and cast doubt upon his ideological purity. Despite the common sense reality that one can strongly dislike both candidates while simultaneously admitting that one is way better than the other, Glenn was not inclined to take this risk.
Spot on. I thought the original article had some good analysis to it, but it entirely left out the gaming the media did to artificially make this horse race so even by both their omissions and their commissions.
You have said it so much more clearly and with so much more elegance than I could have. Thank you for putting this comment together. 100% agree.
Shorter Nate:
You were an insufficiently dogmatic cheerleader Glenn. If you and other appeasers like you hadn’t ever, EVER spoken ill of Hillary Clinton she would be Madame President now.
Thanks for not reading.
It’s not about cheerleading, it is about making an informed choice, even if it involves bad options. Glenn has admitted in more obscure interviews that Trump is the greater evil, but he didn’t have the courage to champion that view. He thought Trump was toast and reported accordingly.
I defy you to find an article where Glenn asserts trump “is the greater evil”.
Glenn assumed she’d win because that was the logical assumption. I assumed she’d win because of the long-standing machine she belongs to.
I did not think enough Americans were ready for a Live free or die reaction. I was wrong.
Obama put a smiley face on Hellfire missiles; at least you know what you’re getting with Trump.
how ’bout that offer for full relations with Russia?
Like I didn’t anticipate this question…Unlike Trump, I do my homework.
Glenn was directly asked the “greater evil” question during this August interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3PUwSqnU8A
Go to the 32:15 mark for its beginning and watch Glenn painstakingly and slowly explain his response. If you can stomach and sit through his rambling response, you’ll see exactly what I meant.
Nate has a point. While journalists at The Intercept and elsewhere were publishing their daily screeds denouncing Mr. Trump, Mr. Greenwald continued to write about the impeachment in Brazil and other topics. What other conclusion could the general public draw? When the pundits failed to demonstrate complete unanimity, a creeping doubt may have arisen, weakening the voters’ resolve to oppose Mr. Trump. This was all the opening Mr. Trump needed, and along with a little hacking of voting machines by his friend Mr. Putin, presto! he was President elect.
How do you come up with that much gibberish?
Please keep it short for comic fodder or long for the scroll.
+1. I am a strong advocate for Glenn, The Intercept’s work, and this critique by Nate. Observations that collectively expand our interpretation of this election. I hope such dialogue is encouraged and nurtured here, in contrast to the shrill juvenalia that is hostile to a sensible, rigorous discussion that is our imperative to progress.
Thank you, Glenn Greenwald for mentioning the drearily predictable list of the scapegoats who blew it for Hillary, including ‘The media’ pffff) and news outlets, including, ‘perhaps especially, The Intercept’….
MWHahahahahahaha
Really good, or excellent satire that is.
This is likely the high water mark for the liberal project in the West, at least for a generation of two. It’s no wonder people of the left are squawking. They might have lasted longer and gone farther if they had held a greater regard for those they sought to govern.
You think Hillary Clinton and John Podesta are “the left?”
Simply the best.
Glenn is the best journalist working today, and quite seriously, what would we do without him?
On a sober note, have you realized how few people understand one iota of what he is saying here? And I don’t just mean those whose paychecks depend on their not understanding.
I mean a lot of people who take themselves for being very smart indeed.
This frightens me more than Trump does, because it means they are not capable of mounting a viable challenge to the worst of it — to manifestations that do merit the description “fascist.” Or to participating in that challenge when others mount it. You know the type. They will cower, and make polite noises as various minorities are picked off one by one.
Question.
Answer?
And you were doing so well. The Democrats must look in the mirror? Check. Hillary was a deeply flawed candidate? Check. The governing “elite” is dangerously out of touch and corrupt and ignores the suffering their own self-enriching policies cause? Double check.
But then it crashes. What’s missing? Why, only the guy who has been president this last eight years. He is supposedly more popular than Reagan, based of course on the same sources that promised a glorious HRC victory. Gee Glenn, is Obama possibly to blame? The economy is a mess, millions of people are not just angry but completely alienated, and the world is a powder keg. Yet somehow it is still Saint Obama. You castigate others for not asking hard questions but then you lack the courage to ask any of yourself. Obama is a trainwreck, and this election is his own fault. And no, the US is not racist, xenophobic, etc. That is just your own insecurity and dishonesty. That is why you have always been and will always be a hack, because when push comes to shove you lack the ability to ever question your own bigoted assumptions even as you perceive them in everyone else, fairly or not.
saint obama? GG never implied that. He made a point to illuminate the baselessness of the “racism did it” argument.
I re-read it. You have a good point. Oh well.
no problem astrodog!
thanks.
Obamacare. It was a nuclear bomb jammed up the backside of the working class. When I opened my Healthcare.gov account and saw the outrageous rate increases, deductibles and premiums – I knew Clinton and the Democrats were toast.
a few thoughts:
1. as i mentioned to your link of it on twitter, the bevins facebook post is far from insightful. brexit was indeed the right answer (and the only one available at the time) and anyone who disagrees need only look at greece, ireland and the refugee mess currently stressing an already fragile eurozone (outside of brussels, london and germany anyway).
i also have to say i’m tired of hearing americans whine about it since it’s none of their goddamn business and if they don’t live in the UK it’s a bit arrogant and condescending to lecture them – van jones style – on how they structure their society. funny how many of these people were just a few years back saying we shouldn’t impose our “ideals” on other countries such as iraq.
i also have to question how a “cataclysm” can result from the peaceful democratic rejection of something that has only existed in its current form since 1992.
2. on the economy/bigotry dichotomy (or lack thereof), you could have saved space and posted a link to the wikipedia page for “weimar republic”. i’d also add that a lot of that bigotry traces back to elites themselves and their aversion to any form of accountability. why blame DC and wall street for screwing you when you’re fed a steady line of “it’s the wetbacks and muzzies who done did this to ya”? not to excuse being stupid enough to fall for that but it is a very, very old trick.
3. while i hold no illusions or delusions about trump’s character (i can honestly say i’ve spent most of my life thinking of him as a bloated frat boy) i find his supposed lack of “benevolence” compared to obama or the clintons a hard pill to swallow. while he says horrible things in plain and open language, obama says pretty words to cloak vile and psychopathic deeds. “benevolent” and “smooth talking” are not synonyms.
i also have to wonder how many of the people fretting about his “finger on ‘the button'” have expressed concern about israel’s nuclear stockpile. or pakistan’s. or india’s. benevolent those countries ain’t.
4. you and others have hit the nail on the head for who actually holds the responsibility: the DNC. there’s a very good chance we’d be celebrating president elect sanders right now if they didn’t think they knew what we wanted better than we did.
in any case a great article. in english, too!
A great piece!
The most dangerous psychopaths are always those on our seemingly own side because, apriori sympathetic, we are most easily deluded by them. Obama’s task was to delude the black Americans, Clinton’s task was to delude the female Americans.
It took forever to read your excellent article, as you linked to Salon and The Atlantic, with two other excellent articles.
Although I have no actual knowledge, it seems to me that these out-of-touch elites are the 4000 people on Mike Allen’s Playbook mailing list. (Maybe I got that from Mark Leibovich’s book, Our Town.) Yeah, I know about ML, thanks to WikiLeaks.
Glenn:
Question to your legal expertise: Since we own the airwaves and the Feds gave them to the Nets in order to educate and inform the public (or do a public good) , do we have a right to a class-action suit? Not looking for a monetary reward, but a turnover to the people whose voices were and needed to be heard, because they served us well. Count yourself as one, and although television is not your metier, you do it well.
Since I will not return to the Dem Party, I might be able to offer them my scathing review.
I haven’t figured out to whom I am writing and what I will say, but it will be a passionate rant, to be sure. Starting with the Dems.
Thank you.
http://observer.com/2016/10/latest-wikileaks-releases-boost-case-for-dnc-class-action-lawsuit/
Since you mentioned class action, indeed one has been filed, though on a different basis.
The DNC MUST clean house. They will try to pretend they are. Etc.
Bernie is the injured party. He turned himself over to DNC. Case closed. But you can sue Bernie for maybe fraud as in BAIT AND SWITCH.
I’m going to be flayed for saying this, but I don’t think the Wikileaks and Comey adventures were irrelevant to Trump winning. Here’s why. Throughout the campaign whichever of the candidates had the spotlight turned on them suffered in popularity. WL and Comey shone the spotlight directly on HRC in the final few weeks. I think it mattered. It could have made the difference in a close election.
Even if Hillary just barely won, all the points of the article are still valid. Given that Trump is a blatantly unfit POTUS candidate, the reason he won (or got so close) are due to all the reasons outlined in the article.
haha, you are right you should be flayed.
you can find a hundred little things to point to except the glaring fact that the Democrats ran the worst, most corrupt, undemocratic campaigns with one of the worst, lowest regarded candidates in history and ONLY because of Trump’s incompetency was it even CLOSE!
If Clinton had not chosen to run a homebrew email server in her basement, there would have been no Wikileaks and Comey adventures. There is nobody to blame except Hillary herself.
EdG again you show you are not informed. Wikileaks had no emails from Clinton. They have the emails from John P from his gmail account. Not a private server.
Those were just two of the hundreds of cuts that did HRC in. And neither of those occurred in a vacuum, both were direct results of HRC’s own actions. She didn’t have to need to avoid FOIA requests so badly that she made a secret server. She chose to. She didn’t have to delete half the emails after being served a subpoena for them. She chose to. And she didn’t have to write the emails that made her look so bad. She chose to.
Comey and WIkileaks didn’t make her do those things. She chose to.
Sure, although WL’s hacking and release of Podesta’s email account had nothing to do with HRC’s email server. I am saying that the timing of Comey and Wikileaks were calculated to inflict the most damage. And they succeeded. If Trump’s tic-tac tape had come out in the last week of the campaign, he’d have lost and she’d have won.
really star, Wikileaks is a hacking outfit now ???
that is HEADLINE BREAKING NEWS !!!
… with your obvious awesome research skills and disclosing hither-to unknown facts like that, maybe a job in the main$tream media is waiting for you.
… did you hack somewhere to find that out?
cyberT-errorist alert!!!
Oh come on, you know what I meant: leak
This is the best explanation I have seen and I will be sure to continue to share this…
I canvassed for Bernie in multiple states (including Indiana) and found that many Trump supporters were basically tired of getting screwed by a rigged political and economic system.
I would wager MOST in the Trump camp are not ideologically studied neo-fascist racist hardcore nazis… they simply like what Trump represents… someone who basically says “Fuck You all” on their behalf (or so that is the message received)… to the powers that be.
This is because many of these folks are legitimately suffering (shitty jobs, debts, no more unions, poverty, health problems, etc.) because they keep getting screwed over (by Corporately controlled Dem and Republicans)… Working class Trump supporters may not even be aware of how the social safety net has been eradicated over the last 30 years! So, if we TAME “wall street”, there will NOT be another TRUMP. i.e. significantly raise min wage, create a real jobs program (green new deal) tax the wealthy (raise the income, capital gains, and inheritance taxes to what they used to be in the good old days when there WAS such a thing as a middle class).
How will we tame wall street? 1)Turn off MSM, 2)turn on alternative media, 3)Vote/Organize with the Greens, Progressives, or whatever mobilizes next, 4) get out in the Streets and Protest, and yes, 5) run for office and get engaged in the process.
Corporate MainStreamMedia, Dem Establishment, and Hillary supporters desperately would have you believe in all sorts of side issues while ignoring the true root of the problem (it is Inverted Totalitarianism, see Wolin, “Democracy, Inc”) Wolin debunks categorically the neo-liberal dogma fed to us, and emphasizes the erasure of democracy through corporate controls.
So, one thing us in the opposition (whether green or dem or whatever) need to offer up, is another candidate who can have populist appeal to these folks (and essentially say ‘Fuck You All” on their behalf, but in a constructive way!
Bernie did have this type of appeal (i saw this first hand engaging those Trump supporters door to door for bernie..,. i.e., many liked him and/or were convince-able, or would consider him second choice)… and they were amazingly eager to talk– not like other typical Republicans…
I would summarize, again… It is the culmination of a Two Act Tragedy:
Act One: The Democratic Party abandons the working class.
Act Two: The working class abandons the Democratic Party
Most important of all IMHO is democratic free Trade Unions; not “American Corporate Unions” because the ruling class will always be against the working class as they demand arbitrary power and their ultimate goal is always the “natural” wage ie., just enough to keep you alive and producing wealth for them. Again, IMHO, the only reason workers had it relatively good for a couple of decades was fear of an alternative taking hold; in this case Communism so they put up with Unions and a better life for the masses. Communist, Capitalist and Fascist and Theocracy; they all hate Unions because they are an offset to arbitrary power.
Good point. We need to bring back the Wobblies (IWW)!!!
Brilliant commentary!!! I will be sending this to everyone I can. You nailed it.
AND as many others have pointed out– this phenomena is not exclusive to the U.S.– yes Brexit but also all around Europe.
And if our Prime Minister Mr Trudeau is smart he will realize that going down that neoliberal path here is Canada is a non-starter. He will suffer the same fate.
Trump as President is a HUGE wake up call to the neoliberal agenda and leadership around the world.
“…opinion-making elites were so clustered, so incestuous, so far removed from the people who would decide this election, so contemptuous of them, that they were not only incapable of seeing the trends toward Trump but were unwittingly accelerating those trends with their own condescending, self-glorifying behavior.”
Yes, like a bronco on the verge of breaking, the American majority is attempting to throw off the bridled bit of newspeak and revert to traditional forms of conveyance that best explains the binary nature of the world that encompasses them. They have had enough of others attempting to narrow their range of thought via the the forced adoption of politically correct language that is intended to undermine their traditional sense of national identity, individual sovereignty, and their very capacity for critical thinking and self-reflection in time. An examination of voter demographics reveals that those who have been most vilified by America’s progressive left in recent decades (much of the criticism originating in academia itself) are among Trump’s most ardent supporters:
1. Christians (or, as Glenn would put it, the “irrational”)
2. Whites (AKA the culturally dominant racial – and therefore institutionally privileged – demographic)
3. Heterosexual Male (AKA chauvinists, misogynists, homophobes)
4. The most mature segments of the population (undesirables)
Yes, traditional (aka reactionary) values have been given a temporary reprieve through the candidacy of Donald Trump. Yet, anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that Trump is the personification of the very worst that traditional American culture represents. He is a narcissistic sociopath who cannot even understand why his overt allusions to his own daughter’s sexual appeal makes his political base cringe. He is a consummate flim-flam man whose all-consuming love of money and self undermines the core principles of his conservative Christian base. The lasting irony of this political twist of fate is that the average American’s capacity for critical thinking and self-reflection has so suffered at the hands of progressive, opinion-making elites (educators, politicians, talking heads, MSM, alt-media etc.), they cannot see that Trump is merely a made -to-order Pied Piper for the disenfranchised majority. Like the ravenous, gaping head of an ouroboros, Trump is the mean by which America’s disgruntled majority will be once again shunted back into the system and forced to eat its own tail in service to the longstanding, ever-evolving, self-consuming global agenda of the dark state. Assimilation into the economic global order is all that matters. If Trump fails to play his part then Pense is poised to step in (Johnson style) and dutifully put to rest traditional Christian sensibilities and cultural aspirations (via sheer hypocrisy). There will be no true reprieve from the global tyranny of the walking dead tendered by either party.
One can only hope that Jesus is still inclined to weeping…
Karl you have so little self awareness. When you make groups of people the “reprehensible other”, you’re straight up being a fascist. No hyperbole. You fulfil the definition.
Any serious criticism of any group for anything automatically makes them the “reprehensible other.” For instance, in this very article Glenn, Glenn asserts “That racism, misogyny, and xenophobia are pervasive in all sectors of America is indisputable from even a casual glance at its history, both distant and recent. American society itself is the broadbrush target of his “reprehension.” Yet, I see no criticism of him by you – why is that exactly?
OBTW… Using the word fascist in this context reveals a profound level of ignorance on your part.
Interesting comment! I can remember when junior senator Obama was being billed as the “candidate of change” and the majority of the American people couldn’t see straight. Very legitimate criticism was coming at him from the socialist end of the political spectrum (Hedges and Nader) during much of 2008 presidential election cycle, but America was in love with the concept of Obama becoming America’s first black president. He was packaged by a very savvy public relations firm to feed into the discontent of the day – not unlike Jimmy Carter who was a fellow member of the CFR. I can remember Barack Obama saying he couldn’t remember whether, or not, he was a member of the CFR himself – not unlike Dick Cheney who also intentionally hid his connections to the council during his run for office due to the obvious implications that could be drawn form such ties. However, it was widely reported that Michelle Obama was on the board of directors of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs, founded in 1922 as the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations. The fact that Obama ended being a political centrist only came as a surprise to his starry eyed fan base.
Trump is a self-interested intellectual lightweight who is more interested in being perceived as successful, popular, and virile then actually being received as presidential – although he does have a particular knack for channeling the angst of America’s Christian middle class. Because Trump himself actually believes that he is the personification of the American dream, his brand-building narrative of making “America great again” comes across as genuine to the “faithful” have-nots within American society. As it is my belief that most Americans are fundamentally decent, Trump style success will always be beyond their reach. Trump learned to play the system like a fiddle while working with daddy’s money; both his father and his attorney had a long, working relationship with the NY mob and their political connections. Playing with other peoples money and leaving creditors in the lurch via bankruptcy loopholes is standard operating procedure for his business set. Failing to pay his creditors is a tack he employs to present day. However, he will be dealing with a different class of animal altogether as president. Johnson’s political ascension is an apt reminder of that which can happen when the elite’s ship of state is steered off course. Ronald Reagan is a more recent reminder of the same principle. Everyone is expendable. I believe that, like Cheney, Pense will prove to be the real seat of power over the next four years.
Another terrific, insightful article.
Thanks for the illuminating analysis on Dems. Trump. Brezit…
My guess is dems won’t learn a thing.
If they do maybe Elizabeth Warren will be the first womannprez.
Thank you Glenn…for this, and so many more, insightful commentaries. May you live a long and healthy life and may you always be a thorn in the side of power.
Would it decrease the odds of this piece winning Pulitzer if the suggestion were put forward in the comments section? Regardless, it has incredible lasting clarity and depth for an election who’s results have been known for only 12 hours
Canadians today are wondering what’s up The Empire.
Glenn got this one right, “it’s the desperation stupid.”.
And as you go so go we. All in this together now.
Sorry to disagree Bill– no it is not as you go so go we.
Time for Americans to deal with their history and structural problems on their own.
We have stuff in Canada we need to deal with.
Glenn, take a bow.
That is the most succinct, cogent piece I have read in a very long time.
You nailed it.
Well said. This hits the nail on the head. People did not vote so much for Trump as against the very system Hillary was seen as being a champion of.
Democrats have been defeated, narrowly. Painful. Yet they still have a whole party. Maybe they can find themselves and find common ground with the voters, reform and renew.
However, I see the Republican Party as the victim, though they won, or so it seems. Donald Trump won. Populism, resentment, dishonesty, demagogy and extremism won. That’s not conservatism, that’s all the things conservatives strove to avoid like the plague. That’s not economic liberalism either. I want to know what will be left of American conservatism after populism and demagogy, meaning Trump have finished remodeling it, or rather disfiguring it in their image.
The victims of Brexit, likewise, were the Tories, who have taken an ugly turn towards populism and xenophobia, and who have UKIP whipping them even harder towards extremism and unreason. The only picture akin to a GOP with Trump is the Tories with Nigel Farage.
I agree with your assessment of the ills of modern western society. But I don’t agree with your leap to the conclusion that these are the reasons, however indirect, that people voted for Trump. You write “But human beings are not going to follow and obey the exact people they most blame for their suffering. They’re going to do exactly the opposite: purposely defy them and try to impose punishment in retaliation. Their instruments for retaliation are Brexit and Trump. ”
Maybe, but defiance and an apolcalyptic wish do not seem to be the genuine reasons people voted for Trump. Neither is ‘suffering’. This Guardian article gives a taste of the reasons people give for voting Trump: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/why-did-people-vote-for-donald-trump-us-voters-explain. The reasons given indicate ignorance, misinformation, self-delusion and bigotry.
A representational sampling:
“Trump is a self-made man. Regardless of getting a hefty loan from his father, he used that money to make a name and legacy for himself. I hope that Trump’s experience as a businessman will enable our country to operate more effectively when it comes to managing our money. ”
“The biggest question is to ask why he [Obama] kept sending troops and flooding us with Syrian refugees that are not vetted for the proper amount of time with the possibility of terrorists mixing in and coming to our homeland?”
“Obama created jobs, but minimum wage jobs. You can’t support a family on a minimum wage.”
“I voted for Trump to keep the minimum wage hike down [!], retain our constitutional gun rights, and keeping close to the constitution and immigration.”
“Hillary guaranteed full scale war with Syria on day one. ”
“Trump promises to rebuild our army and fight for our safety, I look to see terrorism defeated and the war on cops to end, a solid declaration of war on Isis and a halt to the preference of immigrants before citizens. “
The point is not to try to dissect or blame Trump supporters, but acknowledge how ecomonic suffering leads to desperation and despotism. Yes some Trump supporters are racists, many are misinformed (have you seen Fox news lately, many people still watch this, including my in-laws in Southern Illinois as their main source of news).
But as Glenn notes, Trump represents someone who acknowledges they are locked out and pissed off and basically says “Fuck You all” on their behalf to the powers that be.
And Many of these folks are legitimately suffering (shitty jobs, debts, no more unions, poverty, health problems, etc.) because they keep getting screwed over (by Corporately controlled Dem and Republicans). It is easy for those in power, the elites, and also us average middle class/ upper middle class/ professionals to not realize this fundamental fact if we are not OUT AND AMONG the people… but it is there, and it is time to address the most basic issue: we need a people’s party to salve the economic woes of working class/middle class… and avoid the continuing/next fascistic political success.
I’m with you on observing much economic suffering. I’m just not buying that leading to a vote for Trump. That is a liberal, elite view – to borrow an expression I’ve never used before. Look at the reasons given in the Guardian article I cited. It’s not ‘fuck you’ to the system. They agree with the crap Trump spews. They like him. They think he has balls. I live with these people – almost all my relatives voted for Trump. I am OUT AND AMONG them every day! All that said I agree with your final sentence: we need a people’s party to salve the economic woes of working class/middle class… and avoid the continuing/next fascistic political success.
ooh, that stings. liberal, elite view… have to rethink now…. well…. still, while Trump supporters may say “i like the idea of the wall, immigrants get too much money, etc.” and they don’t say “I like Trump because he will help my economic suffering”, i still think the economic suffering is the underlying CAUSE of which the symptoms are hateful spew. In the thirties in Germany, people did not say “I like Hitler because he is going to help solve this hyperinflation and recession through a jobs program and military buildup” they supported hatred and scapegoating… but AN underlying cause (not the only one, but a big driver towards despotism) was economic instability for years unaddressed/unsolved by the political system… does that make the point clearer?
Sure. I’ll have to ask all my relatives who voted for The Donald – who are mostly lawyers and college educated senior managers – if they agree that was subconsciously behind their thinking. ;-)
Its a bit simpler than that. Its not racism, its learning from the mistakes of others.
The Internet is filled with stories of how Muslim immigration has caused irreparable social harm to Europe e,g, Sweden now having the 2nd worst rape numbers globally. Its not racist for Trump supporters to say if we have a choice, we don’t want that in the US.
This all happened because the RNC did not use super delegates to ensure their preferred candidate would be nominated. Had the election been Jeb Bush against Hillary Clinton, the deplorables would not have been able to steal the election. However, unlike Mr. Greenwald, I am confident that both parties – but especially the Republicans – will learn from this defeat and take better control of their nominating process.
Jeb Bush was establishment’s 1st pick…and Bernie was propped up to be the strawman…but it became clear real fast that another Bush was unpalatable to the public, so plan B became to back Hillary and push the biggest clown to guarantee someone as bad as her win. It backfired.
Excellent observations! Thank you.
I think I understand this a bit differently. Clinton and friends are the Democratic establishment. They want to enjoy the power of running the country, and so of course they do not allow Bernie Sanders to be the candidate. The goal here is to have the power, not nominate someone with a better chance to win. Either you get the power, or you do not, and helping the people is relevant only to a limited extent: it might help you.
Trump wanted the power, also. His only chance was to convince dissatisfied people that since he understood that they were dissatisfied, he would be better for them. Complete nonsense of course; corporate power will be even greater under Trump because he simply can do nothing else.
The real idiots here are the leaders of the Republican establishment. They put their party in a state where allegiance could be stolen away; their actions were motivated by both short and long term gain, but they were completely unaware of what they made possible until it was too late.
So the Democratic establishment lost the presidential election, but the Republican establishment did not even get to play.
But isn’t the Republican Party more powerful now than ever? If Trump doesn’t watch his step, won’t they impeach?
“So the Democratic establishment lost the presidential election, but the Republican establishment did not even get to play.”
That seems more like a feature than a bug to me.
“…. the Republican establishment did not even get to play.”
They expect to get power back from Trump over time, as they weasel their way into appointed positions within the Executive branch (among others). Trump cannot govern alone and has clearly stated he does not intend to. He fully expects to delegate even more authority than is common for recent Presidencies.
They will — for the first time since the early Reagan era — be able to enforce their entire agenda on the U.S.: continued militarization of our police forces, effective eradication of fair employment regs, removal of the EPA, privatization of our roadways and public works…………. the full shmear.
dahoit wrote ? Mudbone
Alone,he defeated the monsters who have had America in their hip pockets .
——————————————————————-
Alone ? He’s got you ,,No ?
going with “just the beginning…”
This Benjamin Studebaker piece is complimentary to Greenwald’s and also very good:
https://benjaminstudebaker.com/2016/11/09/how-we-let-the-orange-monster-win/
Talk about the Orange is the new Black.
Well put, Glenn. So the question becomes this:
How do France, Germany, the Netherlands, Eastern Europe (Hungary comes to mind), or anyone else, stop this tsunami?
Should Merkel tell Syrian refugees to go somewhere else? Should France deport everyone in the next Jungle? Should the Netherlands compromise their tradition of openness and acceptance?
It is not enough to tell people affected by globalization that we hear them. You have to promise them something, too. Trump understood that. Never mind that he won’t be able to deliver on any of it.
But I should point out that the system is far from blown up, even after Trump and Brexit. Why should any of us think this is the end of it, regardless of whether we liberal elites “get it” now? And if this is only the beginning, what do we all do in the meantime? Do we just sit in a raft together on the open ocean amidst flotsam and jetsam from the Titanic that is now sitting on the sea floor?
I was a staunch Sanders supporter who ended up voting for Stein in the general. Many of us called this so it’s quite interesting that it seems to come as a shock to so many paid political experts. There just wasn’t any real world evidence of enthusiastic support for Hillary, from her empty rallies, to the hired trolls that acted in place of real supporters on social media, to the disparity in election day retweets (Trump had over 200K, Hillary around 20K) the writing was on the wall. The only shock to me was that she didn’t manage to steal it.
I am repulsed by the idea of a Trump presidency, but at the same time, a sliver of faith in the democratic process has been restored. Though the primary was stolen, the voters had the final say in the general. A Hillary win would’ve sent the message that resistance is futile, that the will of the establishment supersedes the will of the voters, and that blatant misconduct and rule breaking which should disqualify the offending party will instead guarantee its ascension to power. I’m extremely happy to see Hillary defeated, I only wish the rightful leader of the populist movement was the one to do it, not this cheap imitation that the DNC had the poor judgement to hand select.
I do wonder if, like Chris Hedges forewarned, Bernie regrets conceding to the Clinton machine, leaving angry and disillusioned voters nowhere to turn except towards a charlatan like Trump. If there was any logic or reason in DC, the Sanders crowd would be the seed of the new Democratic party. Nina Turner, Tulsi Gabbard, and Sanders himself, who are vindicated in their forewarnings and accurate grasp of the real political climate in 2016 vs the manufactured reality of the cult of Clinton. The queen is dead, how her courtiers will fare is yet to be seen. Remember Trump’s promise to appoint a special prosecutor to look into Clinton Foundation misconduct? If a Trump justice department goes after the Clintons I expect the domino effect will take out a large portion of the neoliberal establishment.
Hear hear… Well said maia.
I 100% blame the Democratic Party for last night’s tragedy. The party leaders had chosen a candidate for us. They rigged the primaries for said candidate. They dismissed and smeared Bernie supporters as “dreamers” and “sexists” despite the fact most of the country supported his policies and we would have voted for a Vice President Warren in a heartbeat.
Then – after it was clear Hillary would be the nominee she did nothing to show us that we should trust her – let alone why she deserved our vote. Now they have the audacity to blame us for not coming out to support her.
So I don’t know what happens next, but I’ll be damned if I sit by and let Trump rollback decades of progress OR let the Democrats attempt to pick my candidates for me in future elections. I have a feeling I’m not alone, either.
You’re not!
This is the single best analysis of the election I have read thus far. I pray that the Democrats will listen carefully, but have very little confidence that they will.
So ,,
Did the greater of Two Evils win ?
All things said ,,, and done ,,,,, Hillary is a proven murderer . She has blood on her hands . Donald is a Moron !!
May GOD forgive us !!
Alone,he defeated the monsters who have had America in their hip pocket.
Some moron,Sheesh.
And unlike HB supporters,and she herself,who couldn’t find it in her to acknowledge his victory last night,was very gracious to her,and praised her.
Divide and conquer no more!
Thoughtful article Glenn G. RIP DNC. Just think, “those damned emails” brought Melania Trump to the Whitehouse, so she can counter cyberbullying, as first lady.
This is one of the most spot-on pieces of writing I’ve ever seen. Thank you Glen for putting into words what I’ve been thinking all day today.
Oh come on, Glenn! If these people were so enraged about inequality and falling behind as middle class citizens and not having any prospects and being ignored or taken for granted by Hillary, liberal elites and blah blah blah they would have lined up by the tens of millions behind the only candidate who was pounding home the message in speech after speech after speech that we need to improve the lives of the middle class, create jobs and opportunity and make the 1%ers pay their fair share. They could have come out in droves for Bernie, but in fact, NOT ONE of them did!
The Trump vermin stand for nothing except being racist, parasitic scum out of the garbage dump. Can we finally place some blame where it belongs?
“Parasitic scum of the garbage dump.” You’ve learned nothing.
lololol “not one”? I guess I don’t exist, then. :)
Voters turned out in record numbers for the primaries this year. I don’t know what universe you’re living in, but you’re oversimplifying things in exactly the same way this article is urging you not to.
But I guess that’s human nature.
Give it a rest. You’d have to be blind, deaf and dumb to fail to recognize what Trump was selling and what his vile adherents were lapping up at his Nazi rallies and social advancement was certainly not it.
“They could have come out in droves for Bernie, but in fact, NOT ONE of them did!”
Wait, what? You know this how? How do you know that disillusioned Bernie supporters didn’t vote for Trump? I briefly considered it myself because I was so terrified of Clinton. In the end I voted for Stein. But how can you so confidently assert this?
Brilliant analysis, in my opinion, from Mr. Greenwald. Wish you’d speak to some of your younger cohorts at The Intercept about their misguided notions (won’t name any names).
Eliminationist rhetoric comparing humans to rodents and insects.
My guess is you think you are a “liberal” or “progressive”. You aren’t.
Moreover how’s that sort of rhetoric working out for “your side” as of today? Not too well I’d imagine. Maybe you should think about why that is other than your kneejerk resort to that particular sort of rhetoric. You know who else in history used to use that sort of rhetoric to describe those they didn’t like or understand?
In other words, Jews are to blame for the holocaust. They should have dione a better job of making themselves appealing to Nazis. That’s what you’re saying.
Wait, what? How do you know that “not one of them” came out for Bernie? How do you know that frustrated Bernie supporters didn’t vote for Trump? I considered it myself, because I was so terrified of Clinton’s talk in support of a no-fly zone over Syria. But in the end, I voted for Stein. But how can you so confidently assert that Trump voters didn’t also support Bernie?
Great analysis, in my opinion, from Mr. Greenwald. Wish you’d fill some of your younger cohorts at The Intercept in regarding their wrong-headed views. Won’t name any names…
“How do you know that frustrated Bernie supporters didn’t vote for Trump? I considered it myself.”
Then I’m sorry to say, you’re a psychopath.
And you appear to be a presumptive ass.
Your cluelessness and nasty condescension are near-perfect examples of the central elements that led to Trump’s victory.
Here, read and reflect:
Thomas Frank: ‘Donald Trump Is Moving to the White House, and Liberals Put Him There’
Sure, Bush won because of kerry and gore, Reagan won because of mondale, Nixon won because of Eugene Mccarthy. Every time the “people” have a choice between a human being and a blood-spattered psychopath, they choose the latter in a landslide. And it’s everybody’s fault except for the VERMIN who make up 50% of this awful country.
I don’t think you have the core of a winning political position there. ;^)
Agreed, We just found out what the core of a winning political strategy is in this country, didn’t we?
More guns. Kill the niggers. Kill the towelheads.
I don’t think so. Do not underestimate the power of the establishment in the primaries which require a much smaller turn out. Clinton had the Black leadership, women’s leaders and union leadership wrapped up from the beginning. These are the people who get their people out to vote, for the most part, as they direct.
A lot of truth to what you say.
The media worked hard to make sure that people didn’t learn about Bernie Sanders or worked hard to smear him to make Hillary look better. Many voters still didn’t really know who he was, and ergo, could not turn out to vote for him. Throw in closed primaries and election fraud on top of that as well.
The media shut down the internet and stopped people from watching a Youtube of Bernie Sanders or visiting his website to learn of his platform? That’s why we have Trump in office today? I just can’t swallow that.
That kind of talk didnt help HRC. Why would you think it helps you? Look in the mirror. thats where you need to start working to make things better…for us all.
Let’s try to better understand animal abusers and not speak harshly of them. Also rapists, mass-murdering scum and Republicans. Let’s sit down over coffee and chat about their concerns.
Fuck that. We let the Republicans breed, multiply and overrun the country. That was a huge mistake with dire consequences for every living thing on earth.
Sounds like you’re into genocide. Read over what you’ve been posting. You’ve become what you claim to hate.
Do you think we should try to find a way to eliminate ISIS? If so, how can you argue against trying to eliminate a vastly more dangerous disease, namely Republicans? That’s just complete hypocrisy.
muntaba wrote:
It is very close and probably still being counted, but it looks as though Hillary won the popular vote.
——————-
What are you smoking ! That’s some crazy stuff !
I agree with your analysis to the point of ignoring this vastly ignored group of people, but how do we excuse the racism, xenophobia, and basic inability of these people separate fact from fiction? Just because you are poor it doesn’t mean you are free from responsibility.
Needs more “Georgetown cocktail parties.”
I think Sanders wanted to do something about this insane global oligarchy while healing the divisions it causes. He wasn’t interested in deflective scapegoating. That’s the tool the Republicans have been using to get white blue collar people to vote against their own economic interests for years. He wasn’t perfect, but I think he would have made effective changes. And I think this is why polls indicated he would have had a greater chance against Trump than Clinton.
I don’t think Trump wants to change anything, despite his claims. He already has his deflection in place. He already has his scapegoats.
In a state of grief. I think I’m approaching the anger phase. I don’t know what to say.
Thank you Glenn. This just about says it all from my perspective. I went for Bernie all the way before he folded. He was way out ahead of Trump and would now be our next president if he had not imploded. What happened there, I do not know.
I remain an unrepentant Jill Stein voter (2 times now) in Washington State.
Same here Thelma, I’m also an unrepentant voter that voted once again for Jill Stein. Of course Hillary won the State anyway but it was without any help from me and I have NO doubts that Bernie would’ve won in a landslide over Trump.
On a good note Pramila Jayapal won her race and once again I didn’t vote for Rick Larsen but once again wrote in Michael Lapointe’s name.
It is very close and probably still being counted, but it looks as though Hillary won the popular vote. The bulwark of the establishment against out-of-control populism seems to have directly led to their defeat. Delicious irony.
Maybe this will serve as impetus to reform the voting and representation system in the US to something that better reflects the voters. Winner-take-all representation when the electorate is split as close to 50-50 as you can get is a recipe for division and unrest. Maybe this will cause some introspection. Probably not though.
Hooray! Trump won despite the biggest attempt by the organs of propaganda to stop it I have ever seen in my 73 years. If I was an American, I would have been torn between voting for Dr. Jill Stein who I admire and voting for Trump and making an attempt to “blow up the rotten corrupt system”; my guess is that I hate the system enough to vote for Trump and yes, I have read his original book TAOTD and he was no sexist then but he was ahead of his time in promoting women to high executive positions. His Miss. Universe was the first Hispanic to win the title and maintaining your beautiful body is a condition of employment in that job. I have also read David Cay Johnston’s latest book on Trump and he is even more corrupt than I thought. As Bernie Sanders said(how could you support the crooked wall st. war mongering witch; you should have done a Ross Perrot; Dr. Stein offered it to you.) ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! Like BS, I have been and am a Socialist; an anti free trader (fair and natural trade only), an anti globalist, a National Sovereignist and a supporter of real democratic Free Trade Unions (not US Corporate Unions)as leaders are always corrupt to some degree and ultimately, your Union is your only friend…note, Obama never passed the “employee free choice act” with the house and the senate. Obama got 95% of the Black vote; now that is real racism. Clinton got about that much of the Black Female vote, now that is real sexist racism. I hope Trump carries through on rebuilding and reeducating the downtrodden Black people in the inner cities and the poor whites in the poor counties. FDR was a member of the super elites but he was a good friend of the working class and could have been even better but for the SC and his early death. LBJ was raised a red neck in the south but other than Kennedy’s war, he was the best POTUS for the working class and specifically Black working class since Lincoln. Soo, I leave the door open for Trump to see what he can do for the country and the working class specifically; he could not be worse than the Clinton,Bush II, Obama regime he follows. I would like to see them hung together along with lloyd Blankfien and Jamie Diamon; I would buy a ticket. I would like to see tens of thousands of financial types replace drug offenders in jail too. The USA is easily big enough to have a successful economy on it’s own and those higher prices will be going to your fellow Americans and with automation; perhaps we can get that 4 day week and family life back for the working class…yes it did used to be better in the 60s; it’s not nostalgia.
..and this climate-denying piece of crap from hell who is about to deregulate everything in sight and wage unrestricted war on the environment…that’s just fine with you?
be a single issue voter. I was all Bernie all the way. I didn’t vote for president only local candidates yesterday. All of choices were bad ones with the 2 big parties the worst I’ve ever seen (mid thirties here).
Trump will probably fuck the EPA but he will also hopefully follow through with his promise to unfuck the H1B visa situation. Who knows. To me, after listening to live coverage until 3 am last night (been ill or I’d have been asleep) and listening to the BBC interview people on NPR it’s very clear most of his voters were from the “Fuck the establishment at all costs” camp and had it been Bernie vs Trump I’d be celebrating right now instead of morose and self reflective.
My SO is 1st gen Mexican/American and is already talking about trying to find a way to get a job at her company’s Canadian office and I’ve never heard her talk like that before.
Sure! He can feel above it all. Fuck everyone of color who might suffer through the next four years. Fuck global warming, he won’t be around to see its worst effects. How someone so nihilistic can feel so morally superior, I’ll never understand.
I haven’t much patience with it.
Interesting premise. But if the point of this article is true – that Democrats are being punished by those left behind in our modern economy – then how does that explain the success of the Republican party as a whole, whose slobbering allegiance to bad trade deals, regressive taxes, unlimited money in campaigns, and the whims and wishes of Wall Street is far beyond the Democratic party? Where is the punishment for the Paul Ryan’s and Mitch McConnell’s? Why would re-elect rich insiders like Ron Johnson who have never done anything to help them out of their lot in life. Maybe it’s because the Republicans are just better and channeling that anger and giving idiots a scapegoat like muslims, immigrants, and free-loaders on welfare.
Excellent.
Thank you for such an excellent piece, Glenn.
Though I have been greatly involved in Democratic elections during the past 20 years, I could not bring myself to support HRC for the very reasons that you have given. Additionally, it was quite clear that HRC was (in spite of her feigned opposition) fully behind the passage of the Trans Pacific Partnership, whose ISDS provisions would severely undermine our nation’s sovereignty and obliterate our judicial system. This agreement would be virtually irrevocable once signed, so it was my “deal breaker.”
I worked diligently for Sanders throughout his campaign and voted for Stein. Yet, news of Trump’s victory over Clinton brought a feeling of relief. He is against passage of the TPP and in spite of his many faults, he seems many shades less corrupt.
I don’t know that just because a wolf says it’s a wolf instead of wearing sheep’s clothing makes it somehow better…I mean, for anything but people’s pride, that is. And, god forbid, people stop operating based primarily on that
Just because he’s supposedly against TPP doesn’t mean he’s less corrupt. We just have more dirt out in the public for Hillary because she’s been under the microscope for years. But if you look around enough you’ll see that many of Trump’s business practices are not consistent with his policy “plans” or this “anti-establishment” aura that he’s created.
There are several elephants in the room GG conveniently ignores:
1) US had just elected a fascist president, and we should scramble to find ways to deal with that rather than analyze the past, or, if we are serious about change, at least consider the relation between millions of voters eliminated by a systemic voter suppression, given that even now Clinton is leading the popular vote by ~200,000.
2) Just like Obama’s ride as an outsider, Trump is entrenched in the elites, and as a Republican would favour them even more than Obama. The idea that Trump would “destroy the system” is naive beyond belief.
3) The claim that the charge of “racism” is weakened by Obama’s presidency is bizarre, since not only Black Lives Matter put that claim to shame, but it also ignores the racism (and xenophobia) inherent in the extreme Islamophobia Trump represents, or the branding of Mexicans as ‘rapist’ and criminals. Finally, Trump does not simply represents “racism”, but his flirt with white supremacy of the KKK variety sends us back to far darker times. As to relating “racism/sexism/xenophobia” to “economic suffering”, the former are moral failings while the latter is a political one. Which is to say, the latter can be more directly and easily be dealt with through political institutions, and needless to say, is more likely to be addressed by Democrats than Republicans.
4) GG’s entire article is a litany to the guilt of the DNC with respect to the rise of the fascist Trump (and the racist and xenophobic Brexit), which is kind of exactly one “of self-exonerating campaigns to blame everyone else.”. Moreover, the idea of “internalizing” is highly problematic in that is subsumes his view is the correct one, while the problem is precisely that THERE ARE various views, none of which is non-controversial, including his. While his central point – that the arrogance of the elites is at the root of the problems – is true, it is without a doubt not the only one. It certainly does not explain the racism, sexism, and xenophobia embedded in Trump and Brexit as a prime cause in its formation and not simply as a pressure point for the manipulation of unscrupulous people like Trump or Nigel Farage. It also ignores the fact that in both cases it is cynical conservatives who successfully abuse genuine frustrations and anti establishment sentiments, with no intention other than their own agenda (his puerile attempt to equate Obama’s broken positive promise for change and Trump’s message of hate notwithstanding).
“There are several elephants in the room GG conveniently ignores: ”
One called Nir in particular.
succinct, and to the point (mysterious though it is), I’ll give you that.
“given that even now Clinton is leading the popular vote by ~200,000.”
You seem oblivious to the fact that the electoral college elects the President.
America is a Republic; not a Democracy.
Hence the ignore button.
Point was not to contest the result, but to compere the narrow diff to the millions of disenfranchised voters strategically removed by the GOP’s systemic voter suppression, an acute, severe, and chronic problem which GG ignores.
There were several states where the diff between Clinton and Trump was narrow, and could have been overturned buy a far smaller number than millions. For example, in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Florida, which together hold 55 electoral college, the Diff combined was 160,087 votes in favour of Trump (I can show you the detailed math if you are interested). I am not contesting the result, but simply pointing to the real impact voter suppression had in this election, more as a way to point at a flow in GG’s argument here. (and if you will, a general tendencies in his as well as in similar publications, ideologically speaking).
Exactly– just one of the many deep structural problems in the U.S. that have combined to create the perfect storm– and yes its here– Trump
I find it kind of hilarious that you start your whole comment by asserting that any meaningful change can happen without examining the mistakes of the past and how they came about. :) In what universe do you live where you can improve in the future by randomly doing things and never examining your failures and how they came about?
It kind of undermined the credibility of everything else you had to say, tbh.
My intention was to stress the absurdity of stressing Clinton’s flaws, and neoliberalism’s in general, when the disastrous ascension of Trump is the single most devastating development in US democratic history. On re-reading now the paragraph you refer to I can see how it can be interpreted as the rejection of analysis, so I am grateful for your pointing it out.
I fail, however, to see how it invalidate the rest of the points I present, especially #4, though I am not surprised, as it is reminiscent of GG tendencies to delegitimize and/or denigrate the whole because some parts of it are flawed or corrupt, specifically here, the rejection of the whole Democrat version of neoliberalism because of the DNC corruption, despite the indisputable fact that whatever passes in the Republican narrative for ideology is far, far worst (Climate change denial vs not, abortion ban vs not, the Mexican border fence vs not, the deportation of all illegal immigrant vs not, the banning of Muslims’ entrance vs not, the cancellation of all environmental protection regulations vs not, the conquest and occupation of oil-rich countries vs not, voter suppression vs not, Obamacare vs not, fair wages vs not, minimum wages vs not, misogyny vs not, an idiot for president vs not, a vindictive, puerile fascist vs not, and so on, and so forth).
Out of curiosity, how much is 200k in the 300M+ population of the US? Like 0,1%? Wow, that sure seems like a lot when put in perspective.
The Clintons represents a lot of things people hate, why would anyone vote for them is beyond me. Sure, the elites have nearly all of the money in the US. Fortunately, their vote counts the same as the poor guy next door living on the street.
200,000 out of 300,000,000 is actually 0.06%. Whether it is substantial or not is beside my point, which was to stress this number (200000) in relation to the million disenfranchised voters, who most, if not all are from communities which traditionally vote for Democrat candidates, presidential ones as well as congressional contenders.
And whom, do you think, the fascist Trump and his cronies represent?
should be millions in “in relation to the million disenfranchised voters”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zmRp7VICfk
Some people saw this coming…but no one listened. Here is an excellent pre-election analysis.
http://mpmacting.com/blog/2016/11/2/election-2016-kill-me-now
Cant wait for liberals to crawl back to anti war, anti surveillance, anti torture, anti authority. Basically all the decency they spit on under obama. But support for clinton made them visibly more evil, perhaps there is no turning back. Well see
Resident antsemite, dahoit, the deluded racist and antisemite believes his Fuhrer will be hard on Israel. Because dahoit is an unhinged, racist fool conned by a con man, he hallucinates that: “The zionists aint happy today.Yee haw!”
Reality: The era of the Palestinian state is over’ — leads Israeli reactions to Trump win –
Click the link to read more of the glee and ecstasy from far-right Israelis who are thrilled with President-elect Trump.
Truly donot care what he israelis think, it is endless speculation.
Why do people always have to drag israel in– mentally obsessed they are.
Has no value.
Waste of time.
There’s nothing “speculative” about all the racists — including some antisemites– Trump supporters who have claimed, and still do, that Trump spells horror for Israel. He does not such thing.
His daughter converted to Orthodox Judaism and is married to a wealthy, hardcore American Zionist. Sheldon Adelson didn’t give $25m to a Super Pac supporting Donald Trump because he thinks Trump is bad for Israel. Wild-eyed Israel lover Saul Fox didn’t host a $25k a ticket Trump fundraiser for Trump because hen thinks Trump is going to bad for Israel.
Donald Trump made sure the GOP Platform is the most brazanely pro-Israel in its history.
Any Trumpers thinking the man is going to do anything but kiss and hug Bibi is a hallucinating fool. Blinded by the racism they love in their Fuhrer,they refuse to see his allegiance to the nation so dear to several in his family.
Israelis lie like no others. That they are praising Trump tells me they are making lemonade.
Your incessant need to assassinate the messenger speaks to your need to make sure others believe you.
It’s like you know your argument is lame but, hey, the other guy is an anti-Semite (“an actual anti-Semite – not your garden variety”); that’s gotta be worth something.
A laugh to be sure.
“Because dahoit is an unhinged, racist fool ”
You never answered my query about an extra shiny monitor, with a frame holding light bulbs, bolted to your table …
You pivot about the same axis relentlessly; hinged may not be the metaphor to make your point (we get it).
Nor shall I be answering you on most occasions. You, like dahoit, are an actual anstisemite and I decline for the most part to substantively engage you.
Look clown propagandist,he slew the ziomonsters and every calumny and poison press they threw at him last night,and if you are still in the dark,no one can save you.
And f*ck you and your goddamn racist and antisemite crap,as its a default position for serial liars who hate the reality that Zionist Jews are the racists and they feed whatever dislike their is of Jews,not goyim DNA or any other bogus attack by delite pos like you.
If the Jews were and had been a shining example of benevolent and fruitful contributors to the world there would be no antisemitism,and Hitler and all the other designated Jewish haters of world history would never have existed.
Does that translate to hatred,facts?
All I do know is,you stink,and are the real hater.
President Donald Trump!
He did it his way,against the whole zionist leviathan of serial lying predjudice,and if anyone thinks he will kow tow to his enemies,one is deranged.
We are free at last! Thank God almighty!,and the American patriots.
BTW,my Jewish son in law(my daughter is due any day with my half Jewish grandson)asked me last week what I would do if Trump lost.I replied hopefully he won’t,and what would he do if the Hell Bitch lost?Ho ho.
He hasn’t committed suicide,yet at least.:)
A very nice fellow,but with a head full of notions,as all alleged liberals are inflicted with.
Bill Kristol and Jeffrey Goldberg are having a bad morning. I’m enjoying that. Trump can be vindictive and hold grudges. Also wondering whether James Kirchick is regretting his hit piece “Jared Kushner, Shanda” at Tablet Mag. I read that Donald Trump finds comfort in the soft soothing voice of his advisor son in law, “Trump Whisperer” Kushner. After the dust settles I suppose they will all be scrambling to get into position. I’ll look forward to Yakov Hirsch’s forthcoming psychological analysis at MW, always excellent.
I’m still numb.Not from disbelief,as I thought he would win bigger,but just the fact that the Colossus of Trump has singlehandedly mortally? wounded the zionists here in America,a sea change of America first instead of zionist first.
First thing Trump should do is revitalize the FCC and destroy the trust ZNN,a total rejection of journalism ethics and the reason our populace is so ignorant of the reality that it is we,America,who stretch the bounds of international relations,and that has given US nothing but disaster and misery.
And the reason for our abject division,witness the unbelievable polarization of Americans into special interest and grievance filled angry citizens,at each others throats instead of the instigators of our misery and division,is neoliberalism and zionism,the driving force behind the global search for profit over people infecting the planet.
And who of course,own almost all media outlets,even the web,witness the last few months of alleged truth and investigative reportage of garbage vs Trump,and ignoring every item of evidence of her corrupt nature,and criminal actions.
Something the creeps will regret.
As far as HRC,if she accepts defeat with grace,I don’t think,as an old time chauvinist,he will kick the old lady when she’s down,and let her limp into the sunset,but who knows,power seems very needy for the Hell Bitch,so don’t expect that graceful exit.
It’s a new dawn!
“Angst-y” is the only best way I can think to describe my mood. I don’t know what’s going to happen next: that makes me nervous. At least with an HRC victory I would know exactly what was coming down the pike. I can envision good scenarios, and awful ones. A really bad one would be that Jared Kushner turns out to be Trump’s Zionist Svengali…and Trump falls for it, out of laziness or insecurity – he is so susceptible to flattery.
But, just as he inadvertently galvanized the national dialog on Muslim civil rights with his bigotry, Trump may also be the gadfly that advances the debate on Palestinian civil rights, through his own carelessness.
We are now in terra incognita. Wait and see time.
Thank you, Glen, for stating the facts so clearly. Our family did not vote for either of the rotten apples, and knew we would wake this morning to learn we had one horror or the other as president. I dread the next four years, but see this as a clear call to more action.
Millions of people participated in Occupy, and millions supported Sanders. Survey after survey demonstrates that at least 70% of our population supports addressing climate change, racism, LGBT rights, income inequality, health care and many other issues of social justice.
We are reading your articles, and we are not going away. We are about to join the rest of the global downtrodden in creating positive change.
IMO you are way oversimplifying it to say that Obama is viewed more positively than Reagan was in 1988. That was because of the Iran-Contra scandal which blew a hole into Reagan’s popularity and then also the 1987 crash that had happened.
i bet all those tyrants that donated to the Clinton Foundation are feeling pretty foolish right about now.
Je suis right you are!
I can hear the stop payments on their checks ringing from here…..;)
good call Je suis woodchipper
… they’ll be sounding like poker players telling “bad beat” stories.
just lost with pocket rockets to two pair (threes and fives).
… tried to push everyone out by going all in before the flop
… Trump stayed in with an unsuited 3 and 5 – go figure.
Thank you Glenn. Always thoughtful, intelligent and articulate.
So the problem is that we have huge portions of society that have been economically and politically marginalized. We need to get them together so they can exercise popular power to shape the society in a more equitable fashion. That’s what unions do. Go to work, and figure out how to organize your shop.
I am absolutely loving the LGM, Daily Kos and Balloon Juice type hacks melt down.
And they still can’t seem to grasp what is happening or why (except Loomis and only in part).
http://ritholtz.com/2016/11/miss-me-no/
Republicans are horrible at, or have no actual desire to “govern” at least not in the sense a majority of Americans think of that word. But “the problem” here isn’t the GOP (it is demographically dwindling even if it maxed out its turnout this election). The GOP will fuck everything up spectacularly, and soon to control all three branches of government, I have no doubt we’ll see an even more spectacular crap show for the next 4-12 years than was the Bush the Lesser era. But America survived that. And elected its first AA President, so it isn’t simply a function of racism. Whether it is one of misogyny could only be tested by a living experiment where another woman other than Hillary Clinton was the Dem Party nominee.
“The problem” is the Democratic Party provides no true alternative as a practical matter except on the “margins” of “culture policy”. They provide little to nothing substantively different on the “big issues” i.e. the economy and foreign policy. They’ve done nothing to preserve, protect or expand unionism in America instead embracing neoliberal casino capitalism. They’ve been tepid incrementalists who have zero consistent principles who like to elevate super fucking unprincipled neoliberal hacks like the Clintons to attempt to triangulate and thread the “identity politics” needle to keep themselves in power. And that just blew up right in their face–thankfully in many ways.
It is always about the “economy” and peoples “working lives”. You couple that with elitist looking down your nose at the vast majority of Americans who aren’t “white collar/professionals” with cultural disdain (which is not the same as saying we should embrace, promote or accept their overt latent/systemic racist or misogynistic tendencies) for them, no one should be surprised they don’t embrace or vote for you.
Most human beings I’ve known in my life, living between the rural and urban populations of this country in a variety of places east and west coast, do not think of themselves as overtly racist (as in malign intent motivated by “racial” superiority or feelings that others are “racially” inferior, any more than they are “misogynists” given most have daughters, wives, mothers and sisters who they support, love, want to see excel and pursue their dreams free from gender discrimination in life and the workplace). But they are “tribal” culturally and fear what and whom they don’t interact with on a regular basis. And there’s a much better way to penetrate and mold, if not dissipate that unreasoning fear, but you don’t do it by equating them all to the KKK. Or poking fun of them because they like to hunt, ride four wheelers or drink shitty beer and watch NASCAR all day. They like cars and guns because given where they live, it is fun entertainment to them, no different than urban dwellers going to museums, restaurants or whatever other so called “urbane” entertainment urbanites like to enjoy.
I happen to like both (although I don’t hunt anymore just fish) because I’m an Oregonian who grew up basically in the country, but within short driving distance of a fairly “major” city.
So when you abandon and denigrate a huge section of your potential economic allies, who don’t see themselves as “privileged” in any way, you really shouldn’t be surprised when they eventually abandon you and start looking for any alternative, any theoretical possible chance, that maybe somebody else will better understand and address their concerns, issues and dreams (even if irrationally).
And Dems have failed miserably at keeping those folks in the “big tent” and helping forge “class” alliances among working people of all genders, ethnicities, “race” and place of origin. That’s “the problem” the Democratic Party is going to have to address if it ever wants to achieve electoral relevance again in this country. And it needs to do it by first learning to understand what drives others (rational and irrational) and reach out with compassion, empathy, and viable economic policies the returns some viable future to those folks. Or prepare to wander in the electoral wilderness for the next 50 years.
So well said, with references too.
DOUBLECROSS is not acceptable. CrookdClintonobama are doublecrossers, pure and simple. They used the DemParty, and consistently served their personal interests at the expense of everyone else.
Quite obvious.
Clintonemail.com to talk to criminals.
“The GOP will fuck everything up spectacularly, and soon to control all three branches of government”
You mean it can get worse than a handful of wars, illegal detention, mass spying, kills lists, etc…….;)
“And Dems have failed miserably at keeping those folks in the “big tent” and helping forge “class” alliances among working people of all genders, ethnicities, “race” and place of origin. That’s “the problem” the Democratic Party is going to have to address if it ever wants to achieve electoral relevance again in this country.”
However, I think you’re spot on with this. The issue is that Dems have become the defacto conservative party by doubling down on GW Bush policies and not reversing them. Till they commit to real liberalism and go WAY left….they are likely to continue to lose elections.
I’d love to see a poll on how Sanders voters voted or didn’t vote….would be interesting.
No matter what. It can always, always, always get worse.
Christ almighty, have you forgotten 2001-2009? The last eight years has hardly been a picnic, but they were better than the previous eight years by a lot.
rrheard
You’ve accurately described the dynamic of rural, blue collar workers, a dynamic that is alive and well here in Wisconsin, with hunting, fishing, etc. About a month ago, while traveling through northern Wisconsin and the upper peninsula of Michigan, the political yard signs were 95% Trump/Pence. Once thriving industries are long gone, with nothing to replace those jobs. And as Glenn writes, Democratic elites live in an echo chamber of affluence. They have no clue how a majority of our citizens actually live or the financial difficulties they face.
I intend to walk this earth with more compassion. Buddha was right: difficulties boil down to greed, hatred, and/or delusion.
Over the last several months I also traveled through N. Wisconsin, U.P. of Michigan, rural N.E. Iowa and Southern Minnesota and I would say about 99% of the yard signs were Trump Pence. It was anecdotal in nature, but it did not make me feel good about this election. The Neoliberal policies of the Democrats as Greenwald and you point out have greatly fueled the voters anger. Also, read Thomas Frank’s book Listen Liberals. He points out the same thing, generally speaking, as Greenwald.
Yes, exactly. And agree with your reading list!!!
I canvassed for Bernie in multiple states (including Indiana) and found that many Trump supporters were basically tired of getting screwed by a rigged political and economic system.
I would wager MOST in the Trump camp are not ideologically studied neo-fascist racist hardcore nazis… they simply like what Trump represents… someone who basically says “Fuck You all” on their behalf (or so that is the message received)… to the powers that be.
This is because many of these folks are legitimately suffering (shitty jobs, debts, no more unions, health problems, etc.) because they keep getting screwed over (by Corporately controlled Dem and Republicans)… Working class Trump supporters may not even be aware of how the social safety net has been eradicated over the last 30 years! So, if we TAME “wall street”, there will NOT be another TRUMP. i.e. significantly raise min wage, create a real jobs program (green new deal) tax the wealthy (raise the income, capital gains, and inheritance taxes to what they used to be in the good old days when there WAS such a thing as a middle class).
How will we tame wall street? 1)Turn off MSM, 2)turn on alternative media, 3)Vote/Organize with the Greens, or whatever mobilizes next, 4) get out in the Streets and Protest, and yes, 5) run for office and get engaged in the process.
Corporate MainStreamMedia, Dem Establishment, and Hillary supporters desperately would have you believe in all sorts of side issues while ignoring the true root of the problem (it is Inverted Totalitarianism, see Wolin, “Democracy, Inc”) Wolin debunks categorically the neo-liberal dogma fed to us, and emphasizes the erasure of democracy through corporate controls.
So one thing us in the opposition (whether green or dem or whatever) needs to offer up, is another candidate who can have populist appeal to these folks (and essentially say ‘Fuck You All” on their behalf, but in a constructive way!
Bernie did have this type of appeal (i saw this first hand engaging those Trump supporters door to door for bernie..,. i.e., many liked him and/or were convince-able, or would consider him second choice)… and they were amazingly eager to talk– not like other typical Republicans…
Well said!
Thomas Frank, at the Guardian:
“Maybe it’s time to consider whether there’s something about shrill self-righteousness, shouted from a position of high social status, that turns people away.”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/donald-trump-white-house-hillary-clinton-liberals
It’s about time to get another drink. It’s been too long. We have a lot of catching up to do.
long time no see brother. I try and follow you and your wife on your twitter feeds. I see the family is growing and those sure are two cute little ankle biters you got there I see in the photos.
Absolutely we should hook up whenever you can. I think I still owe you two a belated wedding gift.
I’ll be in SE on Friday for a 50th birthday party near my buddies pizza place, Bridge City Pizza, so if you can get a sitter that’s where I’ll be. If not soon definitely.
I’ll shoot you a text soon and we can figure something out.
Excellent commentary! Will you marry me? You’d make for great dinner table material!
So many excellent analysis and encapsulations here, both in Glenn’s article & the comment thread. Such as this. Thanks.
Really struck by thought about ‘most are not racist/misogynist, but almost all of us tribal.’ (paraphrased) And also, all the cogent thoughts in article & comments about how the Dem party did this to itself, incl ThomasPaine’s comment belowthread, “Act One: The Democratic Party abandons the working class. / Act Two: The working class abandons the Democratic Party.”
I wrote my Senators and Rep today (in a state where Dems held) w/ congrats & a note to consider the election of Donald Trump not as something to be discounted as racism or fanaticism, but to consider it carefully. To admit it’s fueled by legit fears that there’s no longer any way for the average citizen to effect change or gain meaningful political agency in a political machine that has masticated the average working man and woman over the past 30-40 years. People still have voices, but no one cares to listen.
Last night, that was people *forcing* their voice to be heard. Smashing the windows. Of course, they’re headed into the house of someone who’s as bound up in the ‘establishment’ as they come, but whatever. If one is looking for understanding, the *intent* is what matters. It wasn’t pretty, but that’s what pus is like when it first comes out of a stopped-up wound.
So now, Dems can either abandon this gaping wound, this moral & political territory of unstoppered fear, relinquish it to extremists & let them twist the fear into hate, simply by going about things business-as-usual, looking outward, blaming others, maybe Russia, maybe the FBI, maybe racism or sexism, whatever, but always looking OUT.
I asked that instead they look inward, admit somewhere along the way, enough of them abandoned ‘the people’ for the money, that they got caught up in the machine, and to actually say, ‘Got it, I f*cked up, I’m going to try again, revisit the core of what the Dem party stands for.” (Personally, I then directed their attention to their relentless, aggressive support of TPP, but others might want to direct their own congressional reps to other issues). But to do something constructive & concrete to demonstrate change, and scoop the fear out from under the pitchforks of those who would turn fear to hate.
People generally don’t want to hate. They want to earn a living, go on the occasional vacation, buy bright & shiny sh*t from large corporations, be able to endure a small hospital stay without going bankrupt & have a chance to retire one day, maybe. Mundane stuff like that. Most ppl don’t voluntarily move into a house of hate. They get *driven* to extremes by extreme situations.
The Dems–or hell, i don’t care who, but someone–needs to OWN the matter of re-enfranchisement in a constructive way. Take it away from those who would twist fear into hate for their own purposes. Someone has to become a viable alternative. Alas, Bernie….
GirlsintheAttic, that is so good to see… so important to reach out now to Dems in power. Although, I gave up on them, and joined the Dem-Exit, maybe hope-against-hope there could still be some reform of the Democratic party, so i will join you in reaching out to Dems again, after this event. But here is what I wrote in my resignation letter to the local party and cc:ed all members of the state committee:
9/23/2016
Dear P and fellow members of (the town committee),
To put it mildly this past year has been one of shocking and continued failure of accountability by the individuals bestowed with the leadership of the Democratic Party. More than just Super Delegates, Super PACs or “Super-Predators” the corruption of the Clinton campaign and the DNC is evident with every new revelation. Because of this, I write to notify you it is with great disappointment with the national Democratic Party, that I therefore resign my seat on the … Town Committee.
After a lifetime of being actively involved in Democratic politics I have also changed my party affiliation and am no longer a Democrat. I identified as a Democrat from the time I was 13: from working on Bela Abzug’s Senatorial campaign- to being a delegate for Jesse Jackson at the Iowa caucuses- serving on the Board of Finance, and as a volunteer organizer for the …TC, working on many campaigns, and this past year active in the Bernie Sanders campaign. I have always found inspiration within the hope of a party with the legacy of dedication to progressive, social justice, and working class causes.
The Democratic Party is no longer the party of FDR and the working class- it now more closely resembles the GOP of old. This is evidenced by: the Nixonian tactics of the DNC and serious documented election tampering, a litany of policies enacted to support Wall Street that exacerbate income inequality and do little to effect the drastic changes required to immediately address global climate change; millions of dollars of Super PAC and corporate support by a broad range of Wall Street companies, banks, Walmart, Exxon-Mobil, etc.; and the growing support of Republican Neo-con politicians. One can no longer be proud to be a Democrat or look to American democracy as the beacon it once was. As we once looked elsewhere to try to halt election fraud and support fair elections, we must now grapple with this serious issue within the Democratic Party itself.
I hope you will not be offended by my taking this step, but instead I ask you to seriously consider what has been revealed this election cycle regarding the policies, tactics, and strategy of national party- and consider joining me in supporting Jill Stein and the Green party, or if not that, reforming the Democratic party from within. I still hold out hope that I may return if there are serious signs of change within the Democratic Party.
If Democrats are unable to defeat the worst Republican candidate in history with the lowest ratings, it is only because of a historically bad Clinton campaign that lacks strategy and vision, is bounded by corruption, a terrible track record of supporting war policy, fracking, and has failed to seize on the movement of millennials and progressives inspired by the campaign of Bernie Sanders. With each utterance, each mis-step, the Vice Presidential pick, platform fights, and disparagement of working class people, it just gets worse.
If you haven’t already, I strongly recommend reading Robert Frank’s recent fact-filled book: “Listen, Liberal”. A recent article in the Huffington Post captures it perfectly: “If Trump wins, blame Clinton ? not the progressives she’s given the cold shoulder to for the entirety of the election.” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/if-trump-wins-blame-clinton_us_57e21370e4b09f67131e3883
I wish the many members of the …TC well, and hope that we may work together again in the future.
Sincerely,
ThomasPaine~
“here is what I wrote in my resignation letter to the local party and cc:ed all members of the state committee….”
What a thoughtful, heartfelt letter. I’m guessing the silence in reply was deafening? :(
I’m worried by how even my close, intelligent friends aren’t seeing further than “racists elected Trump'” or “scared white men elected Trump.” If that’s the whole story, we’re doomed anyhow, so just build a boat and sail away.
So if my friends, who have no skin in the Dem establishment game, can’t/won’t see deeper….then will the establishment? You’d think a loss like this would shake things up, but… I dunno.
I turned on the TV today, (hoping to) to hear some tiny glimpse of insight, some small, even begrudging admission that the Dems have some responsibility for this, and an acknowledgement that in owning the problem, they then have the solution…. Nada. Their ‘analysis’ is so superficial, so self-protective. And even when they veered close to real insight, with statement like, “The devoted Trump supporters I talked to didn’t really think Trump promised certain things they wanted to see, they said they were just voting against Hillary,” that was the end of the conversation. They’d go right on to the next Mouthpiece of Vacuous Opinion. Wha…?? No, wait, stop there, ask more questions. Don’t you want to know the wide and deep reason millions of ppl would spend an entire presidential vote on a ‘No, not you’?
And same for Republican sympathizers. Trump an “outsider”?? Jesus. Seriously?? Even if that were true, how do you explain all the downballot Rep incumbents who were voted back in?
So much for the media–I expect nothing anymore. But within the Dem party & the Rep party (and every other party), they must cast aside the easy, simplistic narrative that says ‘racism is the story here,’ “or “the outsider won” and do the hard work, or we will never move anywhere. We will become Rome. Which we probably deserve…
So sad. But maybe…maybe if a whole lot of ppl write their Congressfolk over the next few weeks, say “Hey, congrats on winning, and here’s what you should be scared of. Here’s what you missed. And here’s what you can do….” pointing to specific issues.
Presumably, it’s OUR fault too. BC we all didn’t write letters like you did or get more involved beforehand. Democracy is hard work. And then there’s the echo chamber of social media…
““When George W. Bush became president in 2001, it marked the first time in 70 years that conservative Republicans controlled all three branches of government. By the time Bush left office, we were all reminded why. The financial crisis and resulting global economic meltdown Bush left us with were eerily reminiscent of the Great Depression,”
The financial meltdown was manly down to two things: The repeal of Glass Seagull and the signing of the Community Reinvestment Act.
Bill Clinton did both of those. Once the fuse was lit, the bomb was inevitably going to go boom.
Every time I’d see someone like John Oliver go on a rant making fun of Trump, I’d immediately want to rush out and vote for Trump (I didn’t). I can’t fully understand the psychological impulses, which are admittedly stupid, but I think it has to do with the point you made about defying elites wishes.
Free trade is overall a good thing, what people do not like is the kind of free trade favored by the elites, i.e. where America plays by the rules and countries like China do not, and where borders are viewed as some anachronistic old-fashioned concept as Big Business wishes for open borders so that there can be a free flow/supply of cheap illegal immigrant labor.
I also disagree that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were about profit. They were about fighting terrorism and a perceived threat (Saddam Hussein). If anything in fact, I’d say that it was Obama’s pulling the troops out of Iraq that contributed to Trump’s win because of it leading to the rise of ISIS. We went way too far to the opposite of the Bush administration under Obama in terms of military policy. People do not want our military being sent on foreign campaigns constantly, but they also don’t want our military just pulled out of the world where it leads to terrorism rising and instability, and basically a weakening of America.
So far President Trump has sounded like a China hater economically and vowed economic war against them.
China isn’t particularly worried. They, more than any other peoples, are aware of history and have planned for this — and have in recent years pushed hard to build a massive China consumer economy that won’t need America. It is almost there. So what will Trump do to halt this: nuclear war? I doubt it.
It’s not so much about China as it is about America. We’re losing the trade arrangement. When you are in a lopsided trade arrangement, whether inter-country or inter-business, it’s stupid not to use your leverage to get a better deal. They have more to lose from a trade war than we do, at least in the long run.
Trump will tear up every neoliberal nonsensical trade steal that exists.
Go for it.
And no,he won’t make war on China,that was Obombas angle,along with the Hell Bitch and every rethug and demoncrat.
President Donald Trump.Yee haw!
Bye bye Ukraine,bye bye Syria(or at least the anti Assad garbage),and hopefully every other idiotic war of error crap we do.
Russia and the USA,friends.Hoo haw.
A brave new world.
I’d like to believe that. Here’s the problem. Trump is not honest. The independent fact checkers found him to be the most blatantly dishonest person to ever run for the high office. I don’t think the supposed scandals or the groping thing is important. It’s all about what will a candidate do if elected. Nothing more. My problem with Trump is that he didn’t seem honest enough to believe he would deliver on the few things I could agree with him about. We’ll find out now.
And I don’t disagree with Trump about Russia; why is Russia an “enemy”? Annexation of Crimea, so what, since it seems to be what the residents wanted.
And I said “trade war”, not “war”, with respect to China.
Real classy, calling someone a “bitch”.
China’s economy very much will need America. Their economy as it is, is a good deal built on unnecessary infrastructure development, so their true GDP is unmeasurable.
I’ll be reading more Glen Greenwald
What would you have written instead, Mr Greenwald, if the US election result had gone the other way?
he’s not in the WH yet
The only explanation for Clinton’s ridiculous rock concert tour is that the internal unbiased polls (of both candidates) showed that Trump was winning.
Key establishment polls are deliberately biased for propaganda reasons – to try to make Brexit and Clinton into self-fulfilling policies. For example the key US establishment polls deliberately and massively undercounted independents. Lesser polls then copy the deliberate sampling biases so as to not be derided as outliers.
Statistician Richard Charnin’s methodology adjusted out the bias and predicted a 306-232 Trump win. While his state-by-state predictions are overly simplistic his national prediction was right on the money.
Propaganda is made for public consumption but both candidates would have known the likely outcome from unbiased internal polling weeks ago. And so we saw the Hail Mary play – Clinton’s ridiculous rock concert tour.
Glenn, that is quite simply one of the most powerful pieces of writing that I have ever had the pleasure to read. Thank you sir.
Amazing how well the author can predict the past.
We need you more than ever, Glenn.
Oh, he’ll be there. This is the best thing that has ever happened to Glenn’s brand.
I agree with what you said Glenn and made the comment myself after talking to Brexiters – you can’t win people over by insulting them! However, when a group of people, in full knowledge of what their candidate has done, continue to support him steadfastly, what does that say about them? Conventional logic was that if you support someone who makes such statements, you agree with them. Tell me how else it can be looked at?
There are standards of behaviour that I believe are the acceptable norms. Despite offending more groups than I can mention, outright mendacity with his statements, behaving in an appalling manner with comments in debates and on Twitter, admitting and bragging about not paying taxes, and being caught on tape assaulting women at the age of 60, I struggle to see how on this basis alone HC is a worse candidate. Look how much hot water David Cameron was in for having funds of shore and DT has gone even further and said that it makes him smart! And then has the nerve to say that infrastructure needs to be worked on! Well if you and others like you don’t pay taxes, how can you make such an assertion with a straight face? To me that is 2 + 2 = 4 = unfit for President.
There should be red lines of human behaviour and decency and from this election result, it’s clear that this is no longer the case and that they’ve been ignored.
Also, speaking to an echo chamber is never a smart thing. Let’s see what unfolds in the future, but with the Republicans also having control of the the Senate and Congress, I worry about Supreme Court nominees, Climate Change, Obamacare. 4 years could be way too long.
Love ya, Glenn! Awesome article!
Let’s make several things clear.
1. The person responsible for Donald Trump’s nativism, bigotry, stupidity and ferocity is Donald Trump. No one else.
2. The people responsible for elevating Donald Trump from rancid tweeter to rancid president-elect are the people who voted for him — also including his support staff of trophy wife, fascist ex-mayor of New York and alt-right chief piranha Steve Bannon among many others. This also includes the very fake smiley-face Kelly Ann Fogmachine .
3. Voters, all of us, have the right to vote for whomever we choose. I voted for Bernie Sanders in the primaries. I voted for Hillary Clinton in the general. That’s the way it works. People vote for the best of alternatives.
4. The “elites” are no more monolithic than wealthy people, dark-skinned people, and kangaroos. You cannot blame one event — an election outcome — on some abstract group that fits or disrupts your neatly thought out categories of the world.
The whole point of an election is to choose between alternatives. Geesh!
5. Angry people, desperate people and distressed people all have exactly the same right to their opinions as you or I. By appealing to these people rather than, you know, just educated people, Trump made a choice. Calling him a symptom rather than an agent in his election is just plain dumb.
6. If any general category of people are responsible (other than Republicans, alt-right, Trump surrogates, and unresponsive elites, it is the media who — like everyone else — uses demographics to determine their presentation. Truth, honesty, decency, and accuracy are irrelevant to this group. They build and sell exactly the sort of deaf disdain you attribute to “elites.”
Finally, I think it’s time we acknowledge a variety of overlooked external factors (influences) — from overpopulation to future shock and a thousand other things — for the negative response to “elite” initiatives.
One other thing before I forget.
I don’t think Russia’s role has been adequately examined or explained (in public anyway). No one has any way of knowing if those vague rumors of hacks at local levels had any substance.
Votes, explanations of votes, data manipulation and numbers are all very different things.
Russia benefits from Trump’s election.
Russia is neither impartial nor passive if rumors about Wikileaks sources are true.
When dogs no longer eat the dog food, blaming the dogs is unhelpful at best. Your posts highlight the Democratic Party’s largest problem-a complete inability to hold up a mirror and look into it.
Listen loser I know your in denial but remember that prattling on about Russia didn’t do your queen any good either. Spreading conspiracy theories about Wikileaks and Russia is a complete non starter.
Aaaaand you’ve clearly learned nothing from Greenwald’s insightful article.
Sounds like he’s in denial. That’s the sense I get from reading his post. Someone better check him into the hospital……lol. ;)
He is a laughable zionist propagandist liar,aka Uncle Miltie,of long winded BS.
He has no honor,as Mona and the other propagandists also totally lack.
Pathetic and pitiable.
I’m sorry to have interrupted your scripture studies. I was under the illusion that a political discussion invites dispute — by definition.
Forgive my heresy.
I think you’ll wear that Trump cap awfully well.
For all your intelligence and deep thoughts you really just don’t get it.
Not to blow my own horn but I knew Trump would win, if he ran, over 5 years ago. I interview all different people from all walks of life for my job. Near the beginning of Obama’s second election cycle I was in a convenience store for work and I was chatting with the manager. White woman, missing teeth, beer drinking, cig smoking blue collar worker. A good representation of about 25% to 30% of our country. Something about Trump and I think his birther movement at the time was on the radio. Out of the blue she pipes up “If he would run I would vote for him” with great conviction. The epiphany hit me right then, Trump could capture 90% of the WWE/Nascar Americans. Not only that he could get their government miss-trusting butts off the couch and in to a voting booth. 5 years later we see the results.
This election was about a large section of the country that so fed up with the corruption in government that they are willing to set off a bomb in the form of Trump to blow the system apart.
Shillery represents the height of corruption. She is a protector of Wall Street and big corporations. She speaks out of both sides of her mouth as represented in her Wall Street speeches. The Lincoln bed room was a great deal at only $50,000 a night when Bill was president, no telling what Shillery would have charged. Pay-for-Play. $500,000 speech at a Russian bank for Bill while Shillery’s State Dept was approving the sale of 20% of US uranium production to the Russians. Her praise for that Ultra-racest Margarete Sanger.
And on and on and on……
Doesn’t matter what you think because a large section of the country believes all of it.
“FiveThrityEight reported, “College-educated white women voted for Clinton 51 pe rcent to 45 per cent, but non-college-educated white women voted for Trump 62 per cent to 34 per cent.” ”
After all that Trump did to drive women away from him Shillery could barely get over 50% of the college-educated white women and loose by a huge margin the non-college-educated white women. This more than any other statistic should show you how flawed a person she is.
BTW I voted for Bernie in the primary and Johnson in the general because I wanted to be able to look myself in the mirror.
I’ll ignore what some might construe as sarcasm (as well as the usual jeers from members of the Greenwald playpen) because I would like to respond to your point that Americans are fed up..
Yes. Washington is corrupt. Clinton (especially Bill) is part of that corruption. How much is anybody’s guess. But I think labelllng it all bagful of shit is a really bad idea.
In pioneer days, Davy Crockett or Andrew Jackson could arrive in Washington pretty much up to date on the technology, the society, and the politics of the days. Carry muskets, kill native Americans, grab some land and complain about them thar dirty poli-tish-uns like John Quincy Adams — the malefactor of the “corrupt bargain.”
People have been running against Washington for over 200 years, yet goggle-eyed, spitdrooling Trump supporters think he’s the first one since … since … well, since America was great.
Whenever that was.
The only thing new and shiny about Trump is his astonishing stupidity. Most previous crusaders at least acted like they thought their supporters had some knowledge about the world and government instead of praising them for their ignorance. Once upon a time — maybe when America was great — politicians used complete sentences, gave coherent explanations, and rarely said nincompoop stuff like “trust me” and “believe me” and “I’m a winner.”
But nowadays — in this here modern world — we’ve got stuff like airplanes, space travel, internet, drones, nuclear weapons, spy agencies, a standing army, climate change — almost everything in the modern world Trump avoided talking about.
It’s not 1824 any more.
Why should that matter?
Expertise counts. It counts bigly! Are the Russians hacking into US electoral infrastructure? Who knows? Who cares? Are ordinary Muslims and Mexicans actually a threat? Are US nukes secure? French, Russian, Israeli nukes? Are Pakistan and India trying to get along? What’s the implication of a Verizon/Yahoo merger? How much control do pharmaceutical companies exercise over health management policies? Is Citizen’s United a constitution guarantee or part of a pay-to-play system of legalized bribery?
And so forth.
It’s a very, very difficult society compared to the one Andrew Jackson presided over.
So why go with a troglodyte rather than a professional? Does ignorance somehow bring competence? Is a braggart and bully more willing to listen than a professional?
As you say, Americans are fed up — and we are — but with what? Glenn says, the “elite” aren’t responding. That is true. But maybe it’s because the idiots refuse to listen to detailed explanations.
Do you seriously expect Trump to solve anything??
It sounds to me like your solution to an oil change is a match and some gasoline. After all, it’s an internal combustion engine, gasoline combusts and the doofus in the overalls says, “trust me, I’ll make your car run great again. Believe me.”
What could go wrong?
We’ll all find out soon enough.
Love ya, Milton. But, on first read, this reminds me of your defense of not releasing the torture photos. Will come back and read again later, to see if it strikes me the same way or if I owe you an apology.
I would suggest that Deadhead isn’t offering a dense of Trump – or support for the same – only his/her recognition that Trump’s appeal to those who voted for him makes a kind of sense. That’s a sharp counterpoint to your own iteration (first read!) of the techno-merits of Third Way Democrats.
In other words, a la Wittgenstein (?): No shared/natural language.
Thanks for jumping in THG. You shouldn’t ever, ever have to apologize for having a point of view. The torture tape discussion was in February of 2009. Obama had just taken office and I felt it was unfair to start kvetching without some context.
I made the point at the time that the tapes might prove incendiary to a worldwide Muslim population. But GG kept making the same argument — Obama promised; keeping those tapes secret broke his campaign promise.
So yea, my defense then and now is similar. Some things are far more complicated than they appear. If the captain of the the plane I’m riding announces an emergency landing somewhere other than expected, I’m not going to charge the cockpit crying, “terrorist, terrorist.”
It seemed to me then (and seems to me now) that immediacy makes a poor commentator.
In March of 2009 Obama did something (I forget) that demonstrated a continuation of the Bush policy of no habeas for Muslims. I haven’t defended Obama since/ Certainly not since the US killed Al-alwaki and — far worse — his 16 year old son.
My point is, I wasn’t wrong then — except as part of a pattern that could not be established until later.
I don’t blame Clinton for making Donald Trump the centerpiece of her campaign. But GG refuses to acknowledge the incredibly important reality he says isn’t worth mentioning:
How can Trump’s obvious unfitness for office be so trivial an issue that it “goes without saying”? One of the most appalling aspects of the coverage of Donald Trump during this last year was his treatment as a viable candidate. How can that be compared to Brexit — which spoke not a word for itself: promised no torture, glorified no reprisal killing, conjured no images of a gestapo deportation force, insulted no one, and said not one stupid or discouraging word.
How is opposition to Brexit at all similar to opposition to a clearly sociopathic (and megalomanical) liar and fraud?
Trump was Clinton’s best argument — by far. Even his supporters say he’s an incendiary device designed to blow up Washington.
So great. Digging through the impending rubble, GG wants to blame Clinton for campaigning against her opponent rather than campaigning against her husband’s policies from two decades ago? GG wants to blame her for embracing the only slightly more progressive (and far more popular) Obama?
If I had been Clinton, maybe I would have run a different campaign. I certainly would have chosen Sanders (or Warren) as my VP. But then we’d be talking about Virginia going Trump.
Further, and this is something GG doesn’t mention.
History.
Clinton has been spuriously accused of such a bewildering variety of crimes and sins that it’s not particularly difficult to understand why she ignored more of the same. After all, with complete impunity and absolutely no push back from the press, Trump spent years questioning Obama’s birthplace — which would have made absolutely no difference to his eligibility to be president.
It astonishes me that this sort of pervasive election strategy of slandering and smearing and implying all sorts of sins and bizarre crimes goes unquestioned by the press — and by Monday morning quarterbacks like GG (in this case.)
If your opponents chant “lock her up,” then defending trade policy or the merits of a treaty with Iran seems like the last thing you should do. Obviously they don’t want a competition of ideas — they want a cage match.
And because, again, this filthy bunch of rightwinger “strategists” — from Stone to Bannon and all the slimemiesters in between — wants to distract and deceive the American public succeeded, blaming Clinton for not learning from Brexit is just preposterous. Bizarre.
This isn’t some sort of high school debate. This is swiftboats for doom.
At least blame the malefactors for their role in firebombing Washington –(which they’ve been doing for all of my adult life, more or less.) Holding up Garland’s nomination so they can find another Scalia is little different from holding up peace talks with the NV in 1968 to defeat Humphrey.
Condemning Clinton for not sufficiently defending progressive policy while her opponent blithers like a madman is absurd in the extreme.
I actually was not being sarcastic, your posts show both intelligence and deep thought. But you still don’t get it.
First let me say I didn’t vote for him or shillery, I do not think he is qualified for the job and I don’t think he will do a good job.
But this is not about Trump this is about the majority of the 100 pointers ( not being sarcastic I would give you a couple of standard deviations on top of that) who are so sick and tired of being lied to and walked on. Day in and day out we see white collar criminals get away with EVERYTHING just because they work for the government or have tons of money. Hillary Clinton, much more than Bill, is the embodiment of corruption for much of this country. They don’t care about your details or historical analytics. They may not be geniuses but they are smart enough to know a crime when they see one, even if the FBI and TV talking heads say there is not to see here.
For longer than I have been alive the Rebups and Dems have been fucking us and the rest of the world.
Ok D.C. you won’t play the game fair try playing with this ball!!!!
It may not make intellectual sense to you but this is the equivalent off the Watts riots. We may be burning down our own neighborhood(country) but “fuck the man” we are burning this bitch.
If you can’t wrap your head around that you will never truly understand mass mentality.
How did that Shillery vote work out for you?
I get this exactly. Further, I agree with much of your post. I have even made the same arguments against Clinton that GG makes.
For instance, on Oct. 1, 2016 I wrote a series of comments (on the Guardian website) which included these:
Each of us who voted had a choice. It wasn’t a wonderful choice, but it was a clear choice. Not voting or protest/avoidance voting was also not a choice.
Trump or Clinton.
Fascism or sleazy commercialist politics.
Rehashing the election not only serves no point, it actually gives impetus to exactly those political forces — the very treacherous political forces — that wheeled Trump into this impending disaster. Trumpism will gain an impetus even he cannot control if the Kristallnacht anniversary celebrations last night in Philadelphia are any indication.
You don’t get to be above it all by pontificating about Clinton’s liabilities. You don’t get to side with the people who celebrate Trump like the good Germans who self-righteously scorned that upstart house painter. You don’t get to look away because it’s so fucking ugly.
The election changed the world. Clinton suddenly joins the ranks of has-beens. If you or GG or any of the loud and obnoxious posters here (among whom I do NOT include you and several others) want to beat the political corpse of Hillary Clinton, not only are you wasting your time and mine, you’re serving the interests of the Republicans who mumbled and voted for Trump because … after all … he isn’t Clinton.
So okay — Now you’ve got no Clinton. She’s history.
What next?
Burn down the city? Wear a suicide vest to McDonalds? Eviscerate ACA? Grudgingly accept deportation camps?
By not stridently and vocally opposing Trump — now, today — you endorse the sort of nihilistic avoidance GG displays by blaming Clinton for the election of Trump. Clinton is not the threat that Trump is today. Why bother?
(I have to admit a significant influence upon me in a trilogy alternate history by Jo Walton imagining a Britain that made peace with Britain in 1941. If you read, it’s a very intriguing set of books beginning with Farthing.)
Exactly. And terribly well written.
Should read: Britain that made peace with Germany in 1941.
SMH
A great victory of woke up people over the MSM! At least! My great respect!
We could have been celebrating the election of the first social democrat since LBJ today, but instead the voters in their great wisdom followed the Dem Party establishment lead and chose the most “electable” candidate they were offered. What a scam! The elites who control the Democratic Party abetted Clinton in corralling all the donors to prevent anyone genuinely electable from running for the nomination, so that only an aged socialist from a micro-state dared to challenge her. The fact that he almost defeated her says it all.
The Democratic Party is corrupt to its deepest core and must be overhauled from top to the bottom so that it once against becomes at least a simulacrum of the “party of the people” it could once, with some reason, claim to be. Will it happen? It’s up to Sanders and Warren to lead the way. There is a real chance of significant Democratic gains in the next elections after things under Trump go to custard, as they most likely will. In fact, it could well turn out that Clinton’s defeat is the best thing that could happened to our side. E.g. a Democratic recovery in the states in 2018 and 2020 would prevent the Republicans from again gerrymandering control of the House for another decade. That could never happened under a status quo neoliberal neocon Clinton administration battling special prosecutors and impeachment before a party weary of 12-years of rule by Democratic elites.
Well Glenn we have been wring before including unindictability of Hillary which would give us president Sanders. Instead of Hitlery Trump.
Hillary lost not because of people voting this or that nonsense but because the True ruling elite found her unable to effectively manipulate sheeple into a oligarchic slaughterhouse which Trump will gladly will do, but I guess you are not aware of that screaming reality of 99%.
In fact you are not alone but rather this a terminal disease of all leftist or centrist media calling themselves progressive.
After utter failure of so called objective media to detect true political processes and instead taking a partisan stand, we must ask ourselves:
Is this the end of the leftist/centrist/progressive media? Is this a requiem for their psychedelic dream and fear-mongering as a political tool of manipulation?
While their past contributions to counter-nonsensical rhetoric and MSM lies and insults to basic human intelligence was valuable and needed it is clear now that the sites like this regrettably, by joining an Orwellian chorus of left-leaning blogs covering 2016 campaign as prostitutes for neoliberal, neocon warmongering stooge of global oligarchy [who wants us dead via WWIII] submitted themselves to the US imperial ministry of Truth and totally betrayed their readership.
By that, owners, editors of those left-leaning publications have completely and irreparably destroyed last remaining vestiges of their credibility and legacy of public service.
In fact they revealed themselves in their true colors, and showed their true purpose as hidden, clandestine agents of the Imperial regime that ultimately exist and are funded solely to destroy any real class based opposition to the oligarchic rule while peddling divisive identity politics that leads to dead end as their own dismal record on progressive change proves.
Now is time for a fresh blood and stop incessantly repeating tired and fake “palace revolutionaries’ ” tautologies of old, former flower children, “raging against establishment” activists who themselves became opposition “establishment” as calcified and detached from reality of people’s lives with their outdated ideas of misguided “Ghandi style” civil disobedience seen now by the results as hopelessness and political suppression or surrender to oligarchic monsters, their brutality and psychotic murderous drives.
Similar sentiment a decade ago, was expressed by Chris Hedges who later with his “Death of Liberal Class” broke with his “progressive” peers and later broke with himself [backpedaled recently a bit] embracing deep personal rebellion as the only acceptable moral stand when facing institutional exploitation and murder of this abhorrent US regime.
We need younger people in truly class struggle driven independent media who have courage to demand and take what is guaranteed by their unalienable sovereign rights given at birth as Malcolm X posited.
It’s time for all those limited number of repeating authors, may be thirty in all, regularly appearing regularity on Truthdig, Thruthout, Alternet, cpunch etc., to understand that with few exceptions, they are not an authoritative voice for anyone but themselves and their own money interests and definitely not representing suffering younger generation, as they often think they are by their lying “feel the pain attitude”. They are not new age leaders of the masses at all but rather they became as much as a product, a calcified excretion of this same abhorrent regime as rightwing political nuts did.
After forty years of political activity (petitions, protest, forums, meetings, happenings, public spectacles, so-called independent press, TV radio programming), even political electoral activity supposedly in opposition to this abhorrent regime, its time for them to admit a total failure and let younger truly radical people [i.e. promoting effective self-defense against this murderous regime not begging] without any old political baggage to be heard on such a forum as this and other sites currently run by more or less disgruntled former courtiers of American political establishment who supposedly had “change of heart” or otherwise a gravy train of power and money on its way into madness and oblivion, passed them by.
You did your job well for imperial power but failed miserably in eyes of desperate, suffering American people and now it is time to go, before you find yourself not an agent of imperative change of social conscientiousness but severe impediment to it.
It is time for generation MXY or younger thinkers (Gen “Malcolm X” Y), reluctant “concerned” or “outraged” activists of necessity and not grandiose ideological leaders or decaying pragmatists.
We need new people who would not make again a mistake [or being conniving liars to subterfuge the real struggle] of older generation of “progressives” gullibly and irrationally believing that a shred of positive change for 99% could be ever achieved by submitting to a rigged political and electoral process.
We need new people who will openly and proudly reject political and mental slavery of the US regime and embrace extra political, extra constitutional means to assert their unalienable rights as human beings and free sovereign citizen, a right to self organization of their own society devoid of oligarchic repression and exploitation and to commit unequivocally themselves to discard this horrendous regime as a whole as an inhumane, immoral social structure of enslavement that needs to be destroyed and not replaced with a seemingly more benign version of some seemingly lesser evil.
Will it happened? Will all those self-mind-censored old “progressives” understand that they are going nowhere but where their repeat failures of last four decades of enormous growth of American oligarchic state, lead them, namely allowing for utter destruction of any notion democratic civil society on their political shift?
Will they, phony flower-children drugged with psychedelic delusions of human reality realize how much political and social damage they contributed to?
Will they fade into a dustbin of history where they and their self-deceit and failures belong and pass awesome responsibility for class struggle to a new generation devoid of illusions and false notions of reforming unreformable, fixing of unfixable, fully aware of a fundamental fact that there is no begging for power, only taking it?
Brexit and Trump are just the start. Genies cannot be placed back inside bottles.
Too many millions of good honest people KNOW that we have been lied to about 9/11 and other very important matters for things to return to the cosy collective certainties of our past decades of trusting innocence.
Something much bigger is on the way and it is our job to make sure that bigger thing is good. As JC said, “The truth shall set you free.”
The dominate word in ABC’s coverage last night was “confusion”. As in the pundits were confused as to what they were witnessing.
I didn’t vote for Trump, I voted for Stein, but I am delighted that he won. Now instead of going back to sleep while the neoliberals pillage the country we can get to the hard work of destroying the elites.
Extremely well written. Good prose and clarity are appreciated. The points made seem quite “truthy” too and reflect nearness to what I think of it all. Thanks for the craft of writing.
Brilliant and important analysis that need to be brought front and center to Democratic leadership. “Democrats have already begun flailing” is poignant and beautiful, and i will be sharing that with my friends in the democratic party, to ensure they see and are aware of it.
A friend put it this way: It is the culmination of a Two Act Tragedy:
Act One: The Democratic Party abandons the working class.
Act Two: The working class abandons the Democratic Party
The “stupidity of the American people” is in large part artificial. Note, for example, that 19% of the political Twitter messages leading up to the election were produced by machine: https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-11/uosc-ftr110416.php That the authors could detect, that is – who knows how many they missed? The Internet was supposed to be a big open forum for people to thresh out the truth. Then the goddamned private companies got involved, censored everything, put up bogus notions of “democracy” in upvoting and downvoting (which the authors didn’t study, but I imagine that it’s no coincidence that any clever comment disappears in those stupid up/down voting sites). And people are running around talking to machines like some forlorn lovestruck Ashley Madison idiots.
If a Dark Age is inevitable, it’s because our technological age has betrayed us. Or to put it another way, the social level of organization of this society is simply insufficient to sustain even its current (or former) level of technological progress.
I would so upvote this! ;-)
” It is true that many Trump voters are relatively well-off” is it, now? Those polls which suggested Trump voters were better off, were probably weighted by the same likely voter models which failed impressively.
Maybe you’ve checked it with actual voting data and have your words intact – but if so I’d like to see it.
Either way, even those polls which suggested Trump voters might be better off compared them to the average voter, not the average Republican voter – and not the average voter in their age group.
Older people vote more, vote more Republican, and are materially better off than younger people (thanks to just having had more time to make money, +medicare and social security).
This charge that Trump voters were rich always seemed suspect to me, something convenient media elites told themselves to convince themselves that “they’re not really working class, the REAL working class is still on our side… wherever they are”.
I always heard “without a college degree” as a way to say “poor”, without actually using the word poor. Because poverty might awaken sympathy, and the Democratic party is supposed to own the poor.
From an Oct. 20 comment on another thread by BenjaminAP:
But we are discarding an entire generation to maintain an economic system that can’t hold up anymore…” The Pope
This “missing generation” observation is spot-on, and has had worried me since the 1980’s, which is when I first began extolling my now-world-weary and ultimately career ending “don’t you see, the sky is falling!” mantra; this regarding the effects of neoliberalism and its incremental degradation of almost everything progressive (and formerly of the Democratic party platform) since I’d begun voting.
The constant refrain heard then from what used to be progressive folks with a job and career path of “sure, things could be better, but don’t ask for anything if it screws with my apple-cart!” has only become louder since, this as a direct result of the losses in earnings, jobs, affordable health care, and retirement security that have given way to spending on wars and corporate give-aways.
As a reminder, I said this a while back, not long after my heartfelt introduction to this site by the strong-willed folks that comment here:
“The one thing most people on here do realize is that the shit is hitting the fan, and that without the adversarial journalism and the accurate information that we need to make informed decisions, we are all going to even more screwed than we are right now.”
That was a couple of years ago, I think. And we are even more screwed now.
Just one recent example:
The neoliberals that are intent on extending their legacy have done just fine during this time, but long-term disenfranchisement of their own base is catching up to them, with Trump-ism as our reward.
As rrheard noted below, if you do not understand who your base is any longer you simply do not represent them.
Three things stand out.
#1. – Why is the election of Trump portrayed as “more shocking”
when the article clearly shows that there are so many reasons
why it happened that it was almost inevitable? This election is only
“shocking” if you are still buying into a delusion.
#2. – The answer to the above question is central to the reason that
the democrats put Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine (and so many
other deceiving, manipulating corporate agents) on their ballot.
They and the republicans NEED to keep the suckers believing
that these corporate agencies are opposition parties,
when they are not and when
they know they will not be affected because
the suckers will continue to support the lie.
#3. – As for racism, xenophobia, and misogyny, both Trump and Clinton
(and their supporters) are guilty. The difference is in the manner in
which they express it. Clinton uses women and girls to feed her
ambitions. She doesn’t have much problem with preying upon them
through economic policies and/or bombing them and their families,
especially if they are geographically removed and especially if they are
of Middle eastern ethnicity. Where does xenophobia end and global
indifference to “others” lives begin?
The sooner we stop pretending that the republicans and the democrats
are not both predatory manipulators, the better.
spot on yet again Clark.
you say (and i agree):
” The sooner we stop pretending that the republicans and the democrats are not both predatory manipulators, the better.”
may i quote SpongeBob in response to that point:
“Good luck with that”
Thank you Glenn for the much needed perspective. Stay strong.
nuf said
November 9 2016, 5:37 p.m.
The people have poured sand on the gears of the machine.
________________________________________________
The PEOPLE are pissed !! The machine sucks !!!
From being on the door steps in the midwest I can tell you racism and Clinton’s unpopularity were two huge issues.
The people have poured sand on the gears of the machine.
I think that sums it up quite well, Glenn — as usual, of course.
I would just add, as I did in my comment on Alex’s tirade, posted just after the race was called, that it would be wise for people dissecting this election to pay close attention to the national vote by counties.
Thank you for that excellent link. Bookmarked.
Just because Obama is black doesn’t mean racism isn’t a major player in this result. A large part is backlash against BLM, along with other progressive gains. I don’t think its fair to put this all on the global elite.
How’s Debbie doing ?
That’s Debbie as in Deborah Wasserman Schultz !!
I was disgusted to see that one of the networks (can’t remember which) had Debbie Wasserman-Schultz on as a correspondent last night. The hubris is astounding! No humility whatsoever.
Brilliant piece, Glenn.
History has demonstrated more than once that those who fail to look in the mirror after being defeated only sow the seeds for their next defeat. In politics and on the battlefield. It seems to me that our leadership hasn’t had any mirror time since before Vietnam.
I concur.
Excellent article. Many of us didn’t support Bernie for quixotic reasons. We simply saw he had the best chance to address the issue of economic inequality and unfair trade and win. Who couldn’t drive through Flint – a shell of former prosperity – and wonder when the voters would finally say “enough”.
And right on about the Democrats’ infatuation with “isms”; rascism, sexism, etc. Elites don’t spend enough time with regular folks to appreciate how insulting this is. Most Americans are decent people who aren’t motivated by hatred of “others”. The cries of racism etc. are an easy and wrong explanation (how often is right answer ever easy or simple?). A nostrum that lets the real illnesses fester.
Trump, incredibly flawed as he is, picked the popular side of just enough major issues. For instance, our trade deficit with China is half a trillion dollars annually. They are building the infrastructure and funding the basic science that should be ours, and doing so with our money. They don’t play fair with America. What did Clinton bring? A tepid disingenuous disavowal of the TPP? Look where Trump broke through — in the very states most hurt by “free” trade, MI, OH, WI, NC. These places have seen the middle class devastated.
And the middle class devastation has to be appreciated. When a person comes of age and makes life decisions based on certain expectations about the economy, defeat of those expectations can destroy people’s financial lives (and all that implies). 50 year olds with no college degree don’t go out and just get a replacement job when their factory moves overseas. Their financial well being is permanently dropped quite low. Globalism might have been beneficial in a macro-economic sense, but the benefits didn’t filter back to those who suffered the micro-economic costs. And the costs were concentrated in specific regions. Hate Trump all you want, but only he and Sanders were railing against things like Carrier AC paying people to train their foreign replacements. Middle-aged working class folks don’t recover from those kinds of life-affecting changes.
Democrats were supposed to be the fair and honest party of the working people. Sanders represented that. Instead, the political corruption pervasive in America festered as deep as the Democratic party machinery. The DNC tilting the table to favor a candidate of _their_ choice instead of allowing the _people_ to decide for themselves was the antithesis of democracy.
So yes, it’s so important for the left to not blame anyone but themselves. Blame themselves for letting an obviously deficient candidate take control of their party. Blame themselves for failing to represent the working class. Blame themselves for letting scapegoats avoid hard issues and hard choices. Blame themselves for defending illegal immigration when it has no legitimate defense. I mean, if we are a country of laws, how can large scale approval of lawbreaking be condoned? A liberal stands for justice and majority rule. The immigration laws are the laws of the people of the U.S. Calling illegal immigrants “undocumented” (an absurd euphemism) is a symptom. So-called sanctuary cities?? Advocate for immmigration the legal way, but how is aiding or approving illegal immigration possibly justifiable under the liberal tenet of rule of law?
Until the left sheds the special interests, both economic and social, and acts with honesty and principle, the right will continue to control. Rant on about the GOP, at least they had the integrity to let their voters chose. If the Democrats had done the same it could have been President elect Sanders.
“… What did Clinton bring? A tepid disingenuous disavowal of the TPP?…” Perhaps have a read of another Intercept article if you think Trump will not sign this trade agreement, “Donald Trump Recruits Corporate Lobbyists…” “…Microsoft’s Ed Ingle and Steve Hart, two lobbyists who, according to filings, have worked to promote the Trans-Pacific Partnership…”
And for your information the TPP doesn’t include China so any attempt to change the current trade imbalance, thanks to Walmart and the other big boxes and big US corporations who purchase the lion’s share of goods from China, will be met with failure. China holds 1/3 of all US bonds, notes and treasury bills and at last count amounted to more than $1.2 trillion! The greed of US corporations, who happily supported the Trump campaign with hundreds of millions of dollars, will not allow Trump to change much and will finally force him to sign the agreement. After all, who will make Donald’s ties.
There is not much difference in the two elites, Trump or Clinton, when it comes to the bottom line. Congress and the Senate, Democrats and Republicans, both controlled by corporate money interests will determine the course over the next 4 years, not Trump. Obama despite his “change” mantra was unable to push forth his 2008 promises. Get rid of the money buying US elections and you’ll see change.
“China is more than happy to own close to a third of the U.S. debt. Owning U.S. Treasury notes helps China’s economy grow by keeping its currency weaker than the US dollar. That keeps Chinese exports cheaper than U.S. products.”
Instead of having his finger on the nuclear bomb button, he’s more likely to have his eyes on what impact his “reforms” will have on Wall Street and the rest of the world’s stock trading centers. The impacts on a fragile and fickle (and possibly corrupt) capitalist system will determine the economic policy of TrumpWorld not the people who voted for him.
I’m not really talking about what is likely to happen or why. I’m not arguing that Trump was the better choice. I’m only saying that between the two candidates, Trump was the one who managed to convince voters that he was on the right side of the issue. I find it hard to believe he will be an effective president or that he will drain the swamp, so to speak.
Nicely argued, and so true. Clinton’s “open borders” comment in Brazil was firm confirmation of DNC neo-liberalist agenda which her candidacy represented. It is also the case that the “so-called Left/progressive element” within the US has consistently ignored the labor market implications of large scale Legal (H1B visas) and illegal immigration into the US. Weakened unions in the US were unable to organize either the “cream-skimmed ” top echelon workers coming in , or the exploited and underpaid undocumented workers flowing into the US over the last two decades. Ignoring the economic implications of immigration was a “major fail” on the part of political activists. The issue went unrecognized and under-discussed in terms of its implications for the working class.
In such cases, an almost ridiculous joy takes over me, hoping that the finally obviously uncomfortable state (rather than the hidden one festering inside as things go on in the dark, but under the veneer of someone they trust so they don’t even look there to question the origin) will spur people to their ever-present, even if long ignored, responsibility to always and constantly think on their feet instead of substituting their judgment to someone else, anyone else, even if they like them. We are, after all, humans, no matter what (clearly outmoded) structures have long kept us on mere operating level
The Electoral College vs Popular Vote
It seems that there may be, yet again, another case of the person winning the popular vote but not winning the election. GW Bush in 2000 was the same.
Glenn, how long do you think it will it take till this becomes the blame-game tool of choice?
After 2000, I looked at what the outcome might have been if the Electoral college was modified to by eliminating 1 vote from each state. Currently, each state gets 2 + number of reps. But if they got only 1 + # of reps, this would have fixed all but one. (Don’t recall which one though)
Excellent article. I very much agree with your analysis. However I am surprised you didn’t include the coup in Brazil as part of this same problem. A left-leaning party becomes corrupt and loses the support of poorer people, allowing reactionaries to seize power.
We now have out Nero. We are repeating history by slowing watching The Decline and Fall of the American Empire (nee, Roman).
“Dark Ages America: The Final Phase of Empire” published in 2006 by Morris Berman.
In the introduction he gives
The introduction is on line at
http://www.bullnotbull.com/archive/dark-ages-america.html
Like Glenn, he criticized the W Bush administration and drew out the trends and was well regarded.
Later he published the third volume in the trilogy and he was banned by liberals like Glenn when he spoke the truth about Obama’s presidency.
“Why America Failed: The Roots of Imperial Decline” published in 2011
Even in 2006 he didn’t see any way to escape the failure of empire collapse.
Those books will be interesting to read, thanks.
Hi Don. Good to see you here.
Thanks for bringing up Berman, that book looks like a pretty good read and I will check it out. But I wonder at this statement:
he was banned by liberals like Glenn when he spoke the truth about Obama’s presidency.
Are you implying tht Glenn wrote something disparaging about Berman? If so, I would wonder at that considering that Glenn himself lost a good-sized chunk of readership for his own critique of Obama, which began almost before he was inaugurated. Can you link to that critique? It would be enlightening to read it now, looking back….as we are so often fated to do. :-s
Again, good to see you. Had a chance to see Greg Palast this past Monday but was still getting over an illness and had to pass. Hope people like him keep doing what they’re doing. It so very critical, now more than ever.
You make a compelling argument Glenn. I can’t comment because my brain will not stop analyzing your piece. My productivity for the day may be in question?
I don’t think this analysis gives enough weight to the work of Greg Palast.
The Republicans stole the election. Again. Fortunately, this time it served to keep a psychopath/sociopath out of the oval office and put a sociopath in instead.
The lesser of two evils certainly, but hell, that’s pretty much what we all expect today anyway.
(And BTW…hire an engineer to fix the endless bloody “Error 500″ messages that keep coming up on the mobile version of the site.)
Very incisive piece, as usual, Glenn.
Last night I was watching a live stream coverage of the election results which reported via exit polling, that although Trump was winning 49% of the vote, only 38% of voters actually believed he would make a competent president. This seems incredible but should not be surprising–I think a great many people were so fed up with mainstream politics and the pittance offered to them by elites that they just said “F the system” and elected a man they don’t necessarily believe in, except maybe in his ability to focus collective frustrations in a way that could reshape establishment politics.
I have no doubt the Trump presidency will be a disaster on many levels, but my hope is that this debacle and the presumptive continuing debacle of a Trump presidency will focus the Democratic party into a more progressive, populist, and genuinely democratic institution as it learns the painful cost of its long embrace with neoliberalism.
If this cost is fully (or even partially) appreciated and accounted in a reshaping of the Democratic party–or better yet, the rising viability of a progressive third party–then last night’s upset could actually be good for the country in the long term. Of course I am skeptical the party will learn its lesson, but one can only hope.
So Hillary did not even congratulate Trump.
Good! The man is a rapist and a fascist, and should be opposed on all possible occasion.
Congratulating Trump
Yes, she did last night by phone. He stated as much in his victory speech that she and the media tried to deny him.
Are you still believing what comes from Trump’s mouth? He’s said quite a few whoppers so how would you know when he’s telling the truth or a lie?
Will President Trump now be able to avoid prosecution for his University scam and the rape of a 13 year girl his is charged with?
“Are you still believing what comes from Trump’s mouth?”
About a simple phone call that was also announced by Media persons with contacts close to Clinton who confirmed the call…..yea…sure. Why wouldn’t I?
Yes, I always believe facts when confirmed by independent 3rd parties. Why do you deny them?
Hillary said she’s ‘support’ the new president and Obama said they were all on the ‘same team.’ Both speaking a truth the are blind to see.
Hillary did not congratulate Donald Trump in her speech. Just shows how self-obsessed Hillary is. All she sad was Trump is “our” President and he deserves an open mind.
She was not big enough to even congratulate her.
Please include the epic stupidity of the German government, displayed by its ineffable ignorance, its ongoing hatred and bullying of the poor, and long-term unemployed, its love of distributing wealth from the bottom to the top.
There’s a hidden, or increasingly less hidden, rage here, the media and political class is too self-indulged to listen to, and the result is the rise of right-winged idiots just like everywhere else. I don’t expect that Frauke Petri will be president next year, but the next German election very likely will be another great fuck you of the disenfranchised to the willfully stupid “elites” failing to acknowledge that other people than themselves have a right to exist to boot.
And please spare me the five Germans you’ve met on your last holiday in some pub somewhere, who told you things are not so bad, etc. The Germans I talk about can’t afford going to pubs, they go to soup kitchens instead, anxiously hiding their poverty as they are so universally hated by almost everyone.
There was a party in the last century, who took care of their needs, of the needs of the working class and of labor in general. It was called the “Social Democrats”. These “Social Democrats” demolished the German welfare state, and therefore lost their right to exist. Which is why almost no one votes for them anymore. There are no “Social Democrats” anymore, only different shades of one big fucking neoliberal party. Appears to be quite the same in the US and the UK. An existential vacuum exploited by Frauke Petri, Nigel Farage and friends, and, as I’ve heard recently, some guy called The Donald.
Time for humanity to grow up, or we will be no more.
Congratulations to the R’s for allowing their candidate selection to be democratic. I didn’t think it would work, but it did.
In other words, it serves the D’s right for rigging their candidate selection process.
You’re not wrong; but you’re not right – the Repubs did it with Ron Paul last election. Let’s not act like the two wolves handing back and forth sheep’s clothing make either of them better
Your point is valid…ish. But let’s not kid ourselves–Ron Paul never had even close to the support that Bernie Sanders did.
Honestly, this article was just a hefty dose of truth to the pathologies that have pervasively existed but remained unquestioned for too long. I have staunch liberal social values, but I couldn’t vote for Hillary because of everything written here and the fact she outright ignores the issue of military-policing in communities. Enough’s enough. I don’t think Trump will be too much of an issue, we have a checks and balances system for just such a reason. It’s time for elites to acknowledge the people they’ve hurt and ignored. Bernie or Bust, and what a Bust it was. I thought I’d be angrier at Trump’s victory, but instead I just feel relieved that we don’t have more of neoliberalism ignoring worsening social and economic conditions. A Trump Presidency could potentially worsen all that too, but it sent a message for those left suffering in the aftermath of elite narcissism.
What checks and balances? The Republicans control both houses of congress and the supreme court.
I doubt Sanders could have defeated Trump. This is America, and between the billionaire and the socialist, who’s going to win? What Bernie supporters didn’t experience during the primaries is what he would have been hit with during the general–wall-to-wall TV ads showing looted stores in Venezuela and warning us that this is what socialism means.
I’m sure Trump (and Giuliani, his rumored attorney general) will soon be addressing the issue of military-policing in communities in a very progressive fashion.
What checks and balances? The Republicans control both houses of congress and the supreme court.
I doubt Bernie could have beaten Trump. This is America, where we are far more impressed by billionaires than by socialists. In a general election Bernie would have faced nonstop TV ads showing looted stores in Venezuela as proof of the inevitable consequences of socialism.
I’m sure Trump and his attorney general (Giuliani?) will quickly move to address the issue of military policing in communities in a proper progressive fashion.
Thank you Mr Greenwald.
Good to know, there are STILL some sane voices remaining in this TOTALLY INSANE election….. hopefully, civility, decency, tolerance will return to all the sectors of society, citizens, politicians, media etc etc.
Dems spent 16 years (and counting) blaming Nader.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and predict that the necessary introspection will not occur.
Further, the Bernie wing of the party will not be able to wrest control from the entrenched elites despite their obvious and cataclysmic failure. They won’t embrace the anti-war movement, they won’t embrace restrictions on the police state or surveillance powers, and they won’t shun the corrupt Big Money and revolving door paydays.
This election was heads they win, tails we lose… just like all of them in my lifetime.
The owners of the Democratic party are not grieving… despite the massive propaganda campaign underway designed to make it appear that they are.
They will thrive under Trump as well.
Sticking to my prediction, the “bright side” will not be seeing the party return to an embrace of “defensible idealism”.
The actual bright side will be more end-runs around the party establishment via ballot referendums which were very successful this year and show the true path forward.
Perhaps too the unions will awaken to the reality that flushing their effort and limited dollars down the drain on undeserving Dems is and has been for a long time an example of working against their own interests. Unions need to embrace the reality of redirecting this funding to growing their numbers and pro-worker ballot measures like increasing the minimum wage if they hope to maintain what little power they still have.
Dems spent 16 years (and counting) blaming Nader.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and predict that the necessary introspection will not occur.
Yes. The Amanda Marcottes and Clara Jefferys are busily girding their chosen version of chastity belt, demanding that all examination of failures begin and end with sexism or whatever. Fucking short-sighted bitches those, what?
Sanders’ efforts and failure have guaranteed that such an attempt will not likely come close to succeeding again. The DNC and those whose clutches it resides in will go far and wide in their efforts to prevent such a challenge from ever happening again. It’s all they got. Truly.
Perhaps too the unions will awaken to the reality that flushing their effort and limited dollars down the drain on undeserving Dems is and has been for a long time an example of working against their own interests.
I like to think the nursing union will be a big part of that. Nurses are our healers. Let’s hope that, with the help of the young-and-in-everybody’s-face they can succeed where the elderly left failed this go-round.
It has to start local and grow. It has to start local and grow. It has to start….well, you already know this. :-)
Trying to downgrade the importance of sexism in politics while calling women “bitches” isn’t very convincing.
Trump will be the most corrupt President ever. He has never done anything other than pursue his self-interest. He has no resistance to the overwhelming temptations for gain offered by the Presidency. There will be no reform.
His service will be even more disappointing than the Obama presidency. The credibility of the system will suffer further decline.
Glenn, you are much better than this. Or at least I always thought you were. You made your own case for the imperatives for citizens to reclaim much of their economic and political sovereignty. Then you simply re-enter the Democratic Party echo chamber and regurgitate the anti-Trump generalizations as if they hold profound truths. You just don’t get it do you? Trump has been pissed for decades with how politicians of all stripes have trampled over the well-being of ALL Americans, but for the most wealthy or privileged. This morning he affirmed his pact to those Americans. He dedicated his Presidency to a much more prosperous tomorrow for all of them. Say what you will about his true intentions. Say what you will about the viability. Say what you will about him personally. But he is not a man to take such a pact lightly. Unlike Obama, Trump will have no hesitation pounding the desk with politicians to put forth legislation that will benefit the greatest number of Americans first, before the special interests get their pound of flesh.
Bravo. That is all.
I’m hopeful that Trump will end the persecution of Assange and WikiLeaks, from whose fearless truthtelling the Clintons were revealed as corrupt Wall Street puppets, which revelations justly led to her defeat.
It was possible to simultaneously support Wyden, Snowden, Assange as well as Trump for a needed insurrection against the basket of deplorable status quo policies, particularly including endless warmaking. The specter of those continuing another four years became intolerable to assent to.
I doubt the establishment will learn anything worthwhile.
Trump and Brexit will just encourage them to continue on the same path, only with more zeal.
More propaganda.
More smearing.
More identity politics.
They have proven time and time again that when they fail their prescription is even more of the same. I can’t see Trump changing that, they are far too narcissistic to accept fault.
The thing that globalist and many leftist don’t seem to understand is the desire of regular people to live in communities where they share a great deal in common with their neighbors. Most people don’t want to live in planet Brooklyn. And they don’t want they’re taxes to go to pay for an imported replacement working class, even if they may reap very real benefits from such a class. Call it racist, call it xenophobic, but I think it’s a universal feeling.
Last night Paul Krugman and Rachel Maddow were blaming Jill Stein and Bernie Bros for what happened, these elite media pundits will blame anyone but themselves, nevermind if they gave Bernie Sanders half the time as Trump’s empty podium we’d likely be in a much different place right now.
Thank you Glenn Greenwald for being such a fantastic journalist.
@ Glenn
Simple and brilliant analysis and exactly correct. And this is precisely the one thing that self-righteous know-nothings at places like LGM and Daily Kos will never understand (both because their jobs depending on not understanding and because they are fundamentally blinded by their cultural and class “privilege”).
They will never understand how millions of suburban white female Americans could vote for somebody like Trump, and/or how significant portions of Latinos (25%?) and African American (18%) could as well.
It is because when you abandon such a large and diverse segment of the population and their long term economic and life prospects, of course they will scapegoat those least among them, but they will also look to burn it all down, because frankly they don’t have much left to lose. Now their “solution” in empowering someone like Trump is largely misguided, but it is perfectly understandable even in its unreasoning qualities.
That’s what idiot eggheads like Lemieux and Campos, and Markos and certain activists don’t get–you can’t denigrate, deride and dismiss huge segments of the population as simple minded drooling racists and misogynists (some are and some aren’t) and then expect them to care, vote or fight for your ideology.
It’s stupid politics and misunderstands human motivations and perceptions of the world around them.
This was a highly predictable (if not statistically likely) outcome to anybody who really understands America, its trajectory over the last 50 years, and who understands basic human psychology.
And many many many of us have tried to warn the Democratic Party since Clinton that this is where it would end.
But just like ideology driven cultural revanchists, or Ayn Randian republicans, they simply will never have the capacity for introspection or responsibility to accept moral responsibility for their actions. They are fundamentally incapable, and that’s why they need(ed) to go.
Mr. Heard, having read your previous posts, I wish you could be one of my teachers. You’re by far the most impressive lawyer and of the best people I’ve ever known in this life. Can I ask you just how long do you think before we can get true progress for once? How much more time does the Electoral College get before its finally abolished and when do third parties get a real chance? Thanks for the response, if you decide to give me one.
Best analysis of what happened. Definitely sharing.
As Woody Allen once said, ‘I can’t think of a positive message. How about two negative messages?’… which, in this case, is, both party establishments are sunk. The real losers of this election are those souls who voted Trump and actually believe he will bring back those good jobs and give the country back to The (white) People. When the realization dawns that he’s just another huckster and what’s left of the middle class continues to shrink as wealth and capital still go to the top 1%, where do they go next as their woes continue?
Now in complete control of all three branches of government, Republicans have no excuse not to deliver what Trump promised and cannot deliver. Interesting times ahead.
Jobs in the US can easily be created through ending the continual state of war, and spending the billions of dollars on infrastructure rather than arms. It would also help if tax legislation loopholes were closed so that multinational corporations could not avoid paying their taxes in the US. If this cannot be achieved then an incentive to repatriate the billions of dollars they have stashed off shore would be another possible solution.Trump may also stop the trade pacts, and the trends towards globalisation, which are also costing US jobs. Its about bringing back jobs to all people, and having a Government which serves everyone, not just the elites, and their powerful corporations, and financial institutions. Its about reducing corruption, and inequality. Instead of being negative and saying he cant do this, lets hope he can. What is needed now is a fairer society in America, and an honest non corrupt, and far less militarised Government.
You are projecting onto Trump exactly the same way Dems projected onto Obama.
Trump bowed to Republican orthodoxy and interests in his campaign, and expecting him to fulfill your wish list is far too optimistic.
I’m not criticizing your wish list… I think that would be good for America.
I just don’t want you to assume any of it will happen without massive public pressure.
Even then, it’s doubtful.
Just don’t emulate the Dems and sit back expecting success.
Trump is now a politician, and they are not to be trusted.
Hellary for jail!
GGreenwald, good opening but people are smarter than to elect crooks.
clintonemail.com to talk to criminals.
People do not do the opposite. They are smarter than than that.
Agree it will not be pretty. But hiding the bugs under a barrel does not make them not there.
A relative used to say an old 1930Depression saying — too smart for your own good, and in this case everyone elses good.
Great article, great analysis. Worried, of course, about how this election will embolden more extreme elements (left and right), but just as The Bomb was dropped not once, but twice, to send a message to Japan, the U.S. has gotten its toxic telegram.
Good analysis. In brief this was a vote against the greater evil and a lashing out by lower middle class victims of Globalisation elitists. Great take on this by Michael Hudson, http://bit.ly/2eLEcXq , suggesting reasonably that HRC was more evil because she was more organized and connected and able to perpetrate her evil. Trump is not necessarily less evil but rather less capable of putting his evil into play. Time will tell.
I used to believe Trump would be the less effective evil, but Clinton could hold her own in a room filled with sociopaths. Trump is going to rely almost completely on his advisors, who may manipulate him to achieve their goals. The best we can hope for is that this new crop of thieves gets locked in an internal power struggle with the current crop and they’re too busy fighting with each other to burden the peasants anymore.
CrookdClinton was an obvious criminal.
That was fact danced around by the US which cannot stomach that a Flotusa can be so criminal, especially if she is a Woman!
This is an are whre women get away with more bc NO ONE EXPECTS IT OF A WOMAN!
Good and evil are actions, facts, not speculation.
All I can add to this great summation of what just happened is my experience.
I’ve never gotten excited about a US presidential candidate. Not Bill Clinton, not Bush, not Obama. I never had any expectation that Clinton would “Feel your Pain”, or Bush would be a “Compassionate Conservative” or that Obama would bring “Hope and Change”. And I was not disappointed. Clinton “triangulated”, Bush “shock and awed” and Obama “looked forward not backward”. The wars multiplied, Guantanamo stayed open, torture and spying went unpunished, the rule of law was not restored, Wall St was not punished, the poor in America were left behind.
Then something happened that I hadn’t expected.. Someone ran for the Democratic leadership, who was saying the same things he was saying one year ago, five years ago, ten years ago, twenty years ago, thirty years ago. There was a commitment to reduce inequality, reform the banks, make education affordable, introduce universal healthcare, and much more. And he meant it. You could google him saying the same things, in the eighty’s.
Bernie Sanders was a septuagenarian political rock star, of the left, taking disconnected, young people who had never believed in the political system before and bringing them to overflow crowds at his rallies. Sanders was inspiring and motivating people to become a “political revolution” inside the Democratic party, in a way that Clinton wasn’t. It takes a lot for me to get excited about an American politician. And I was excited about Sanders.
But for the Democratic party, Sanders was someone who had to be stopped.
Now, there had been a lot of talk about if and how the Republicans would stop Trump. Would they annul the primaries? Would they unite against him? Would Trump have to run as an independent?
In the end the Republicans did something that turned out to be wise. They let the votes of their members decide who they wanted to lead them.
The Democrats took a different path. Whereas the Republicans left it up to members to vote, Democrats put it in the hands of Super-delegates to give Clinton a head start, Whereas Republicans had fair debates, the Democrats’ Wasserman Schultz used her power as chair to tilt the debate schedule and the contest in Clinton’s favour. And of course the corporate media played its part, when Donald Trump’s empty lectern was live on TV, Sanders’ campaign was being ignored.
So America was left with two choices, Trump and Clinton, neither one of which, I would have been much inclined to bother voting for. And I can very well understand why many Americans, who had been looking to Sanders for change, would have turned to Trump as the only remaining alternative.
I said it on these forums at the beginning of the contest. Clinton is the perfect status-quo, sitting duck target for Trump. And she was.
Super delegates vote with the popular vote. Clinton won the Dem primary by nearly 4 million votes. Yes, she had the support of the party elite behind her — the same party elite she worked with and supported for decades, unlike Bernie. The scheduling of debates was not the silver bullet that led to an HRC victory; the excitement around an experienced female candidate with strong ties to Obama was. Like it or no, HRC won the primary because the party voted for her.
Part of the Democratic process is accepting its outcomes (a value HRC holds but Trump does not). Could Bernie have won against Trump? Maybe, maybe not. Was Bernie somehow cheated out of winning the Dem primary? Absolutely not.
… and ain’t it a kick in the cojones, that the cuckolded Bernie turned around and pimped wholeheartedly for Clinton. As someone said, it was like Occupy Wall Street endorsed Lehman Brothers. Sad because, as he put it, “only Bernie and I are talking about what the people really care about.” So we got the only alternative that was willing to stick out his neck and defy the establishment.
That is true; he destroyed his own base by doing that and he should have known better. It’s doubtful he will ever have that much support again.
Sad waste/use of his political “currency,” similar to Powell in front of the UN with his vial of fake Anthrax. Hard to recover from selling out (even if unintentional).
Quality points, but you left out a major part: how sparse the Democratic primary field was to begin with. Clinton kept plenty of candidates out of the race like Biden. Chaffee was a RINO. Webb was a Dixiecrat reminiscent of a bygone era. O’Malley was a jobber. Only Sanders put up a solid fight, and it was something no one expected. Instead of letting the primaries play out, and the people decide, the DNC anointed Clinton as their nominee. Would Sanders have won a primary outright? I’m not sure. I think I still would have voted for him in a deeper field of traditional democrats. The DNC didn’t just rig the primary against Bernie, they created what they thought was an unimpeded path for her to the party nomination. They didn’t stop to think how unpalatable she was to a large part of the population. They went with the candidate who ran up the score early in the deep red states, and threw the people under the bus who endorsed someone very ideologically different from Clinton. Many of the swing states Clinton lost last night Sanders carried in the primary. I don’t know if Sanders could have won in a deeper field, but I’m almost certain Clinton would not have. Instead of having a primary, we effectively had a binary Hillary / not Hillary choice. Whether the support for Sanders was true, or was largely #neveryhillary voters remains to be seen. I hope Sanders can whip a voting block up for the 2018 midterms and have some real influence on the direction of the Democratic Party after this colossal fuckup, which cost the Democrats the White House and the Senate.
This is excellent analysis. Wish I had been smarter about Clinton, but I did figure out Obama fairly quickly. Hillary was never an option for me. Learning the hard way, and slowly.
Yeah except that Trump himself is an elite so that comes back full circle to the fact that the only reason why he’s president now is because of the massive stupidity of the American people.
I am intrigued by this new strategy of contempt for the deplorable electorate. I wonder how it will work out if the Dems really run with it. You should send them your newsletter, Serious.
“…the massive stupidity of the American people.”
You don’t seem all that bright yourself.
“It’s not me or my party, it’s the fault of the stupid citizenry.” That is the smug, insulting attitude that got Trump the WH.
Exactly. Especially when there is proof that it partly _is_ your party at fault.
You’re not wrong, but you are also not going to win with that attitude. I think Glenn’s analysis does a really good job summarizing the “why” of how Trump won. What it leaves out is the “how”? And that “how” is a very long interesting story in itself, involving money, power, and the media. That is where you should direct your anger. Low information and low attention voters will always be there, and they will always be susceptible to manipulation. But how they are manipulated is the real story, and your anger should be directed at the manipulators.
In deed, we’ve seen how these attitudes of contempt play out in the end.
Besides, I think you’re proving Greenwald’s point.
Are you actually pro-Clinton, or did you just state a fact about the massive stupidity of the American people, and then find yourself set upon by five idiots, who are too massively stupid to understand that neither of the candidates were on their side?
Indeed, the Dems have only themselves to blame for this huge debacle, but will never do so. The Repubs at least pretended the last time to do a post-mortem , to figure out what went wrong, came up with some decent conclusions, which however were never followed through. The PTB in the Democratic Party are too damned blind and arrogant to even do that.
The Dems abandoned the working class and relied too heavily on identity politics. And like I said in another thread, it was stupid of her to attack and demonize a large swath of voters as “deplorable” and “irredeemable” in front of a fundraising crowd of filthy rich celebs. She shot herself in the foot repeatedly and with perverse gusto.
Great reflection, very persuassive.
Like This^
Donald Trump was better for down ballot candidates than Hillary Clinton. Let that sink in. How did the DNC decide to back Clinton over Sanders given the anti-establishment fervor that was sweeping the country? Corporate liberalism and centrism were thoroughly repudiated last night. All these points you raise are SO CRUCIAL Glenn. Amazing to read your article about the electability of Clinton Vs. Sanders in retrospect. I hope at least now we can all agree that these authoritarian powers that have been established in the executive branch are dangerous regardless of ideology. Thanks as always Glenn. Keep up the good work.
Lesson: Never underestimate the stupidity of the elites.
” How did the DNC decide to back Clinton over Sanders”
The Clintons more or less control billions of dollars. Sanders had only a few hundred million.
Great analysis as always :)
I can’t help but wonder if there were more journalists that got to the root of the problem we wouldn’t be in this sorry mess.
This is the knock out punch to an ideology that has tormented the average person for far to long. They more than deserved it. The amusing thing is ,they never even saw it coming?
“Supporters of Brexit and Trump were continually maligned by the dominant media narrative (validly or otherwise) as primitive, stupid, racist, xenophobic, and irrational.”
Seems to me the equivocation: “validly or otherwise,” is a cheat. If the characterizations are valid–and data seems to uphold that characterization–then talking about Trump’s demographic is a completely valid and understandable. If the GOP sees a path to power in an uneducated electorate, what sorts of policies do you think they’ll enact? They will undermine public education, devalue science, push religion… I’ve lived through many presidential elections and been disappointed in our decisions (Reagan, GWB), but this is entirely different.
While not a Brit, I support Brexit- not for reasons of racism or xenophobia, but due to the enforced austerity the EU imposes, as well as the hostility toward self-determination they express, from Catalonia to Crimea.
I am genuinely worried about many things Trump has promised and planned. His racism and bigotry is appalling. His tax cuts would mean disaster. At minimum, he is guilty of fraud. On the other hand, I have no love for Hillary Clinton. She has blood on her hands from Kosovo to Syria (To say nothing of Iraq and Libya!) she has engaged in corrupt dealings with all kinds of questionable characters, from the Saudis to Katy Perry. She used all sorts of underhanded means to turn a political party into a vessel for her taking the White House (all other spending be damned) and ensure any opponents were diminished or ignored.
I do hope Trump goes after Clinton for her corruption (and material support to terrorists). Why? Well, for one thing, it means Democrats will have to pick someone untainted by Clinton, who has far less baggage. For another, it gives a valuable precedent to prosecute other government officials for high crimes like lying about Iraq WMD, or attempting to disrupt the election process (Like Hillary’s buddy, George W. Bush). Perhaps it could lead to prosecution for Trump someday.
An end to free trade would help the economy. (Though the Trump tax cuts would take us deeper into debt.) Trump would reduce tensions with Russia, thus potentially saving money and allowing for forces to be redeployed against real threats like IS. (Of course, this assumes both Congress and Trump’s advisors will let him get his way.)
In short, while I am not happy about Trump’s win, I am very happy Hillary is out.
Gave me no pleasure to read this Glen.
I’m guessing it was no fun to write.
Seems to me this is yet another symbol of the decadence of this system…
Bernie Sanders on Brexit: urgent lessons for the Democrats
Last June, Cory Doctorow wrote a warning that is usefully read in tandem with Glenn’s insightful words above. Doctorow quotes Bernie’s warning that “many of the left’s traditional supporters justifiably feel abandoned by the neoliberal establishment” and observes:
We knew, even before Wikileaks released the excerpts of Hillary’s Goldman Sachs speeches, that she and her people thought of us as a “bucket of losers” with “low social capital.” Her and their every deed and most words reeked of it.
I’d like to see know how many of Sanders’ millennials simply stayed home yesterday.
Quite a few did. Many voted Stein or Johnson. Some even voted Trump.
And with Clinton backers blaming Stein and Johnson supporters, it makes the ones with principles less likely to vote Democratic. As a different Clinton said, “America eats its young.”
Not necessarily millennials, but do know of folks who stayed home. A Fuck it attitude prevailed. Of course we can search voting age pop for any state and look at pop vote to see just how deplorable participation is in the U.S.
For the first time Mona, I am in 100% agreement with you. Ive never heard of the Ultimatum game before so I actually learned something from you :-). Love Greenwalds articles. Always spot on and honest.
I’d like to see know how many of Sanders’ millennials simply stayed home yesterday.
I’m glad you posted the above text Mona-interesting stuff. I can’t speak for the others but I made sure to vote for both Bernie and Jill. Damn now we really do have a fight in our hands with both having been swept aside.
Bucket of losers?You?Hillaryous.
Blame it all on US deplorables,we love it!
Trumps speech was awesome,and thank God sufficient numbers of American patriots still exist,but the number of America haters residing among US is scary.
And Trump won 53%of white women voters,so stop the misogyny crap.
Never say never,as you did repeatedly.For some reason I find it pleasurable to tweak you.
The zionists aint happy today.Yee haw!
0s approval rating is an obvious myth,as his coattails were short.
Just like everything from serial liars.
Uh, while Trump may have Nazis backing him, he does appear to be favorable towards Israel. Neocons are not solely motivated by Israel. (A good many are reformed Trotskyites, and their Russophobia shows.)
I’m hoping for Trump to change things, but it’s entirely likely that he’ll be a part of the system on many things. And his racism and sexism turned me off.
Let’s not forget Sanders was offered the leadership of the Green party.
He, instead, chose to cave to the Democrats who had already disowned him.
His supporters had nowhere to go. There is plenty of blame to go around.
The UK and US governments have been put on notice that their citizens are tired of being pawns in their cretinous rush to amass wealth and power for themselves and their masters. If change is not fast in coming there will be an even bigger backlash that nobody will like!
Hopefully, Congressional and SCOTUS term limits will be fast in coming; along with mandatory retirement ages.
But that’s entering the world of Hans Christian Anderson.
Yep, all of this.
Honestly, I was at the point that one of my main feelings about the election was relief: not to have Trump as president (I voted for Jill Stein) but just that votes are still counted and a smug cronyist corporate imperialist elite doesn’t run everything so thoroughly that voting was a rigged charade. It’s nice, genuinely nice, to be sure that at least some cynical paranoid fears are unfounded.
I’m glad to know someone else voted for Jill.
What happened to her?Terrible showing.Weird.
Hopefully this election has paved the way for other parties to be given air time and taken seriously.
Hopefully DJT has (and it was said today on Morning Joe) destroyed both parties.
You are totally kidding yourself if you think the Republicans aren’t doing just fine today.
I appreciate that,… I guess we’ll see what happens… who fills out cab picks, etc.
Just hoping.
Reasonably what’s next if the political system fails to correct itself?
Which ones? The establishment have to deal with a president who is hostile to much of establishment Republican foreign and trade policy, to say nothing of being very unpopular and facing several scandals. (He even has no problem with gay marriage or equal access to bathrooms.) Republicans lost at least one senate seat (and may lose at least one more), and three house seats (minimum). They have the White House and Congress, but it’s on shaky ground.
+1 on this. Trump will abdicate responsibilities to experienced members of his circle: Giuliani, Christi, Gingrich, et al. Republican elites are the ultimate beneficiaries of this outcome. With comprehensive control of the branches, they are poised to entrench their predefined positions and exert the same policies that have contributed directly to the current socioeconomic and political condition of the United States. I expect an accelerated exploitation of the emergent populist constituency that had been only ignored thus far. Tragic.
DNC-Hillary-Obama-elites robbed the left of their candidate. Because of their greed, millions of peoples future is taken away from them for the next 4 years and maybe even much longer. A massive class-action lawsuit should be filed against the DNC.
Better still, use the Defund ACORN act to deny the DNC and RNC any funding, due to their violations of election law and conspiracies to do such. (Thank you, Alan Grayson, for turning what would have been a Bill of Attainder into a tool to fight corruption.)
Outstanding work Glenn. I would not expect the DNC to make productive use of it.
No mention of the right wing misinformation machine? Every single Trump supporter that I saw interviewed either on TV or in print based their rejection of Hillary on a blatant untruth. Every single one. How do you not take this into account?
What’s different about the right wing misinformation this time? It was fully operational last time and the time before….
Democrats tried misinformation too. Bernie Bros are racist and sexist and Putin is behind everything including environmental groups. Good call Democrats. This is what’s called being realistic. Way to go.
That same right-wing misinformation machine existed in 2006 when Dems took over the House and Senate, and in 2008 and 2012 when Obama won resounding victories over his GOP opponents. So you’ll have to find something else to blame.
That’s especially true since (a) the only thing that has changed since then is that the Democratic misinformation machine (MSNBC and online liberals sites) has gotten stronger and (b) the right-wing machine this year (including Fox) was actually more divided than ever, with many of its key prongs hating Trump and, in some cases, even supporting Clinton.
Thank you for the article, Mr. Greenwald. This really must have been one of the most difficult articles for you to write.
I agree with your overall analysis Glenn, but I have to disagree with this comment. For one thing, you claim the Democratic misinformation machine has gotten stronger, but I don’t think that is remotely true. Sure, it’s gotten bigger, but its impact is still non-existent outside Democratic circles. It only serves to milk the hardcore partisans and does not have any effect on the overall political environment, whereas the right wing machine certainly does.
I see your analysis as doing an excellent job describing “why” Trump won, but not saying much about “how”. Why did voters vote the way they did? You explained it. How did they become convinced that voting for Trump was a solution? No real explanation there, which is fine. And this explanation does involve the media, money, and power. Yes, Obama faced all these same things, but he also had major advantages Clinton did not have. And this is coming from a long time Bernie Sanders supporter who believes with no doubt that we would be talking about President Sanders today if he were the nominee. But you cannot just whitewash the role the media played in this election (example: how many newspapers assigned any reporters to look into any of the extremely sketchy skeletons in Trump’s closet: the answer is easy, and the explanation is enlightening).
Disagree. The right-wing propoganda machine has only gotten stronger and more diverse. My Facebook feed is now filled with conspiracy theorists citing Breitbart and newsbusters and redit threads and other sources of misinformation. The propaganda has become mainstream in a way it wasn’t in 2012. As far as I know, there is no Democratic equivalent that traffics in pure and outright lies, but that has managed to achieve widespread embrace of said lies.
Beautiful summary of the disastrous political climate of the USA. The Dems should have run Bernie; but they couldn’t get the heads out of the sand hole they have lived in for 30 years.
Yes. Principles aside, the Dems showed not the slightest scintilla of strategic wisdom. Even if Bernie had been a vice, the results would have been different.
You did indeed do your best to burst the smug self-delusions of Democrats throughout, Glenn. No good deed goes unpunished.
I am resisting the unhealthy urge to rub salt in various wounds this morning; after all, a lot of these people are friends of mine.
But a minor critique on your 2016 performance: you probably wrote a bit too often variations of “I expect that Hillary Clinton will be the next president” in your articles. It’s not a big sin, and it was understandable given the pervasiveness of this presumption, but I never did see what you gained by regularly making predictions like that part of the fabric of your articles. I swear this isn’t just Wednesday morning quarterbacking; I did think it often at the times I saw it.
The globe of globalization does not exist. Flee to safety.
I posted this and here is the link.
I realized after posting it that we are now all refugees. We have changed the earth and no longer know how to orient ourselves.
Presenting work of one of the most important thinkers in the world Bruno Latour
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/9/1594327/-The-globe-of-globalization-does-not-exist-Flee-to-safety?_=2016-11-09T06:32:13.878-08:00
Glenn – please look at this short piece. Your undergraduate degree was in philosophy. Here is a thinker who bridges science, religion, social science and puts politics in an essential role like Hannah Arendt.
“(1) DEMOCRATS HAVE ALREADY BEGUN FLAILING AROUND trying to blame anyone and everyone they can find – everyone except themselves – for last night’s crushing defeat of their party. ”
Yes, they have, I am seeing it everywhere. And that is why I am not going to jump on the “keep fighting, mobilize” bandwagon. If nobody will accept/assign blame to its legitimate targets, then the same mistakes will be made with the same results. We are too busy patting ourselves on the back for occupying the fictional moral high ground of “looking forward, not back”. But you know, if you’re driving down a road and somehow survive the potholes, other people are behind you and feeling superior is no excuse to not go back and fix the fucking potholes.
Comments like this give me hope in the human race.
Well just have to see what happens. The next four years will be some of the roughest in our existence. Hopefully, support for the Green will grow substantially and soon.
The nightmare is real…