Over the weekend, millions of demonstrators took to streets across the country to mobilize against the new president and his agenda, assembling in a national turnout that organizers call the beginning of a reinvigorated protest movement. But in states home to dozens of Saturday’s demonstrations, Republican lawmakers are moving to criminalize and increase penalties on peaceful protesting.
Last week, I reported that such efforts were afoot in five states: In Minnesota, Washington state, Michigan, and Iowa, Republican lawmakers have proposed an array of anti-protesting laws that center on stiffening penalties for demonstrators who block traffic; in North Dakota, conservatives are even pushing a bill that would allow motorists to run over and kill protesters so long as the collision was accidental. Similarly, Republicans in Indiana last week prompted uproar over a proposed law that would instruct police to use “any means necessary” to clear protesters off a roadway.
Over the weekend, readers alerted me to two additional anti-protesting bills, both introduced by Republicans, that are pending in Virginia and Colorado. This brings the number of states that have in recent weeks floated such proposals to at least eight.
In Colorado, Republican state Sen. Jerry Sonnenberg has introduced a bill that would greatly increase penalties for environmental protesters. Under the proposed law, obstructing or tampering with oil and gas equipment would be reclassified from a misdemeanor to a “class 6” felony, a category of crime that reportedly can be punished by up to 18 months behind bars and a fine of up to $100,000.
A state with a fierce debate over oil and gas extraction, Colorado has seen a number of demonstrations in recent years against fossil fuel industries, and a town in the state recently floated a proposal to support the civil disobedience actions against environmentally harmful drilling methods. (Republican sponsors of North Dakota’s current bill cited activists’ successful actions against the Dakota Access Pipeline as a primary motivation for their current attempt to crack down on protest.)
Native American and other activists celebrate after learning an easement had been denied for the Dakota Access Pipeline at Oceti Sakowin Camp on the edge of the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation on Dec. 4, 2016, outside Cannon Ball, N.D.
Photo: Scott Olson/Getty Images
Although Sonnenberg’s bill touts itself largely as a public safety measure and makes no mention of protesters, its language broadly includes anyone who “attempts to alter, obstruct, interrupt, or interfere with the action of any equipment used or associated with oil or gas gathering operations.” In addition to imposing potentially significant terms of imprisonment and fines on anyone engaging in such activity, the bill also includes a clause appearing to buttress the ability of oil and gas firms to pursue their own separate claims against a protester who is also being prosecuted by the state.
With control of Colorado’s legislature split between parties and a Democrat in the governor’s office, the future of Sonnenberg’s bill is uncertain.
In Virginia, state lawmakers are considering an anti-protesting law that is apparently broader in scope. A bill pending in the state’s Senate would dramatically increase penalties for people who engage in an “unlawful assembly” after “having been lawfully warned to disperse.” Currently, this law is classified as a class 3 misdemeanor, which according to Virginia statute carries only a maximum $500 fine. Yet the bill proposed by Republican state Sen. Richard H. Stuart elevates such infraction to a class 1 misdemeanor, which means protesters would expect up to a year of incarceration and a fine of up to $2,500.
State Sen. Jennifer McClellan says there is a possibility that the bill will pass both chambers of the Virginia state legislature and says the state Senate could vote on it as early as Monday afternoon. However, McClellan expects that, if successful in the General Assembly, the bill would likely receive a veto from Virginia’s Democratic governor, Terry McAuliffe.
Nonetheless, the legislation has troubled Democratic lawmakers. McClellan says she is alarmed by the move because of the law’s applicability to an enormous range of situations.
“As someone who is a direct beneficiary of the civil rights movement and all the gains that were the direct result of civil disobedience, I strongly oppose this effort to further criminalize dissent,” McClellan said. “The way the bill is worded is very broad: Take the student sit-in leaders — you could put those protesters in jail for up to a year.”
Update: Jan. 25, 2017
This story will be updated as we learn of more anti-protest legislation.
In Missouri, a bill is pending that would make it a crime for anyone participating in an “unlawful assembly” to intentionally conceal “his or her identity by the means of a robe, mask, or other disguise.” Sponsored by Republican lawmaker Don Phillips, the bill would classify such crimes as a Class A misdemeanor, meaning that anyone caught concealing their identity at such a protest could face up to a year behind bars. The bill contains a section that would exempt identity-concealing coverings for the purposes of religion, safety, or medical needs. The Missouri legislature’s website states that wearing a “hood” would also be included in criminalized coverings, although this language does not appear in the current wording of the bill. The bill does not yet have a hearing date scheduled, according to the state legislature’s website.
In North Carolina, a Republican lawmaker has pledged to introduce legislation to criminalize protestors heckling politicians in the state after an incident over inaugural weekend in Washington, D.C. in which demonstrators persistently shouted at the state’s former governor Pat McCrory.
BTW…as a Canadian I am very well aware of your 1st amendment. Did you guys delete it recently???? May I remind you of the gist of it? The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, ensuring that there is no prohibition on the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights.
Three words….KENT STATE MASSACRE May 1970. So we will regress 47yrs and go back and give power to the State with the OK of the Federal government to murder people in cold blood for disagreeing with the Government??????? That is COMMUNISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Blocking traffic and making people late for work, doctors appointments and the like is NOT “peaceful protest”. Like most Lib articles, the title to this one is a total lie and click bait.
JerryS you are absolutely wrong. Sounds more like you don’t like your freedoms or you just take them for granted. Ya know what? When people are standing up for what is right, which will ultimately benefit everyone, I hope to GOD they stop all the traffic. I think you need to look up what peaceful means in terms of a protest. It’s part of what makes this country great. You want to take that away move to Saudi Arabia. You’ll probably like the restrictions there.
Yeah, but it’s not //***EVIL*** either as in if you do it it means you are equal to the worst scum of the Earth with no real reputable character to ever be respected at all and it is certainly not MORE evil than whatever evil it is trying to protest against… If any evil at all in it it’s on the moral level of I yelled at you and hurt your feelings and it kept you out of your house a little than of “you should never be trusted in society ever again”. That’s just plain stupid. You want to restrict more and more freedom of speech. The thing is, it gets even worse when people are fighting against repression in other countries. If you think that protesters should not be restricted in places like Syria then it should not be restricted even more here, much less branded as “EVIL” as what happens when you get a criminal conviction. 20 years and the conviction is still on their record … for what bullshit purpose? Crimes are just crimes, they should be forgiven after a few years if you don’t do them again, seriously, unless it was TRULY EVIL as in childrapey evil.
Isn’t the right to peaceful protest protected under the first amendment of the constitution? So making these kinds of laws is unconstitutional and criminal in action on the part of the lawmakers.
Don’t expect much sympathy from those who opposed 0bama, and were met with ruthless suppression from Big Fed. Most of you were silent, and some of you even cheered as IRS, FEC, SEC, and other other regime agencies suppressed domestic opposition. 0bama’s Legacy: Tougher On The Tea Party Than He Was On The Taliban.
Good its about time…these rag tag groups of people who riot, destroy property and cause mayhem to law abiding people should be punished and stopped. This doesn’t stop or block protests who have a permit to do so. Stopping traffic on the interstate and threatening people is insane and hopefully it will soon be a thing of the past
Lynn, your a lousy American. Sorry, but it needs to be said. I am so sick of this sanctimonious crap that we should all sit down and shut up. It’s such BS. Very few destroy property, which is unfortunate. Mayhem to law abiding people, where do you think you are Libya? We have rights here that many people, before you or I, have fought for. Hell the country started by killing millions of Native Americans. You do realize you live in the USA, right? How do you think you got all the rights you have? Get a grip. You guys are just too stupid sometimes. Move to Communist China…you can sit down and shut up all day long. If you want rights taken away then offer up yours and leave the rest of us alone.
This is America we are talking about, not North Korea. What on earth is happening to the hard-won freedoms by rights movements across the States? Donald Trump uses God’s Name; his fellow Republicans do the same. There is NO way the God in whom I believe would support this kind of shutting off peaceful protest. God is a God of peace and justice. None of the new bills being signed into law are about that. They are to do with selfishness and greed. To think the Prime Minister of the UK was the first leader to rush to meet Trump causes me to worry. Barbara Scott.
Does this mean that we are FINALLY going to take the ROBES off the DAVID DUKES & the KKK? Or is this going to be one of Trumps EXCEPTIONS cause he likes David Duke? How much is the Klan going to be the enforcer for corporate America?
Having a leaky pipeline is not in anyone’s best interest. Every pipeline leaks at some point in time & that is a fact. We don’t need dirty water or ruined soil , EVER !
But didn’t you know that was part of Trump’s plan to make jobs? I mean we are going to need to hire thousands of workers to clean up the spills… that is as long as he doesn’t disband the EPA since the conservatives don’t seem to care about the environment or believe in things like global warming.
The fact people are going to sit idol while one of the greatest components of our Constitution is shat on disturbs me. The fact these political leaders where chosen and remain to have their jobs while this is happening is an insult to what we stand for. Which soon standing up for anything will get one run over legally or behind bars labeled aw a felon.
The key word here is PEACEFUL protest. The law abiding, working people of this country are sick and tired of UNLAWFUL rioting, destruction, and the streets and highways being blocked.
You have a grievance ? Fine. Protest. But do it in a lawful manner. You have no right to disrupt the lives of people who live on this planet also
That’s right peaceful protests, that was what you saw out of 750,000 people protesting the day after inauguration. The catch being though at least our city has the support of our leaders, our Mayor Eric Garcetti, our newest Senator Kamila Harris, our Chief of Police Charlie Beck and people from all over. There will come a day when they take the rest of your rights away. How do you like the fact that the man all of you put in office thinks NOTHING of your wants and needs, it is all about him. You fools will learn too late. Glad I will be out of here in a few decades. I pity the kids born today, born into a society of ignorance and greed. That is all anyone can say for the USA anymore, our country has been bought and sold from us all for the greed of corporate and government.
Even though New York has always been the place for immigrants to come in from all over the world. Trump tends to forget that his own grandfather came over to the USA as an immigrant from Germany. So without him over here, Trump would have been born in NAZI Germany instead of still being there in his narcissistic mind. The USA now has the best DICTATOR that money can buy. HEIL HITLER! After less than a week, we have been set back 100 years with no hope on the horizon.
To bad the damage will be all done before the idiots that voted for the dip realize what a con man they put their hopes in, cause I sure as hell wouldn’t trust a word out of his mouth. We now are known as the USA of the FLIPFLOP, BRAINLESS, NARCISSIST! Stick the finger in the air and see what kind of BS to spew for the day. Nothing more than the pompous ass he has always been and these leaders are ALL out of touch with reality. All a bunch of corrupt suck ups to the DIP!
Thank you for saying much of what I’ve wanted to say…It’s strange, but I feel that every executive order that Cheeto Face signs is taking a piece of what makes me…me…My opinions on Climate Change…Immigration…Trade…The Economy…Women’s Issues…Issues which the Women’s March clearly acted upon last Saturday…
Listen, folks…Wise up…Right now, ALL those executive orders under scrutiny since they were written without benefit of legal counsel…without important input from the respective department Secretaries or Directors, etc…Plus it’s reported that both Bannon and/or Miller are responsible for churning out this toilet paper…
What Cheeto Face is doing is purely theater…Granted, he’s warning us of what his base wanted and so what he’s willing to do…Don’t forget what happened during the primaries and general campaigns…Never forget…
I feel what’s going on now with all these states is a reactionary response to Cheeto Face…His actions are emboldening the states’ representatives to put forth these horrid bills…Each state is responsible right now for their state…so FIGHT…#RESIST Are you willing to give up your civil rights…? Rights that extraordinary people fought for…to just be flushed down Cheeto Face’s toilet…?
You have the right to remain silent and useful to the machine.
The Women’s March was peaceful. It was the largest protest in American history, with zero arrests, parallel protests around the world. NO one could have predicted the turnout. It was permitted, but there were so many people we had to redirect our route. I’m sure people were inconvenienced who were trying to get across town or something, but this was a historic event, with great significance. And there is no way the crowd could have complied fully with these types of laws, even if they had wanted to.
Blocking traffic is not peaceably assembling and neither is tampering with private property. Law enforcement needs to crack down on rioting that masquerades as protesting.
Socialists have made protesting the lamest form of expression on Earth.
Is this true?
Peaceful protests, by definition, keep the peace. Obeying laws, like the laws against pedestrians standing in roadways, not interfering with law enforcement in the performance of their duties, respecting private property, and obtaining permits for protests that are to be held in streets, has been thrown out the window lately. The ND bill is not a 007 license to kill, but a recognition that, when people insist on unlawfully and purposefully moving onto a roadway with moving cars, or jumping in front of motorists trying to move around said people, the fault is with the idiot in the road, not the motorist going about his/her lawful movements. Individuals have the responsibility to not put their lives in jeopardy; the responsibility for negative outcomes is theirs, and theirs alone. If you want to protest, stand on the sidewalk, or on the grass. Don’t deny the rights of others trying to go about their lives.
Nope, protestors got arrested for standing on the grass too!
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5364
Here’s an idea, there should be a law that when a republican comes up with the idea for a law that strips an individuals’ civil rights and/or allows or the lawful assassination of someone who is peacefully exercising their civil rights, then that republican is deemed a traitor to the United States of America and is to be hung from the gallows until dead. Problem solved.
Why restrict it to Republicans? It’s just as treasonous when Democrats do it…
I sincerely hope someone “accidentally” runs over these lawmakers.
I wonder how many people who support this type of legislation were, conversely, on board with the various crimes of the Bundy family and their fellow travelers.
Oh please, do tell what crimes the Bundy’s committed
Uh, it is a felony to point a firearm at a federal employee in the performance of their duty. I think everyone can find pictures of Bundy supporters on highway overpasses drawing down on federal agents.
Read a little more into this. And these bills are primarily related to blocking traffic with out a permit.
Blocking traffic is a very dangerous way to protest. Emergency workers will have to find alternate routes to hospitals.
I also do not believe there is ANY need to hide your face while protesting unless you plan on a Riot, in that case you are no longer at a protest.
Some people wear masks/costumes to protests to make a point. For example, I believe the Women’s March had a person protesting in a Trump mask.
Now it seems that person could legally be sentenced to up to a year behind bars. That is more jail time than some convicted rapists get in this country. That is unreal to me.
one might want to hide thier face should be protesting something that might jeopardize thier employment should an employer see them protesting — there are reasons and bandanas, masks, and HOODS do not preclude rioting.
But hoods do not block the face necessarily. Banning that is a clear contradiction to the constitution and needs to be struck from the law if they try to make it law. It’s pure corruption of the law.
Prolifers protesting out in front of abortion clinics can be accidentally run over too. Be careful of what you wish for. You just might get it too.
Yeah because the abortion protesters are ALWAYS in the road, right ?
The private prison industry is probably ecstatic that Rebulicans are creating bills to that impose harsh prison sentences on Americans who protest to preserve their rights.
There is a big difference between someone expressing there protest with the 1st ammendment rights, by holding a sign or talking about a issue standing on the side of the road in a park etc, but when they block traffic and infringe on others right to move about their business, or destroying property breaking windows burning cars bldg, they stop there 1st ammendment protection and become criminal thugs who need to be arrested and jailed.
This has special consequences for landowners that energy companies want access to “minerals” (oil or gas). If someone else (previous owner, state or Fed Govt) owns the mineral rights, this is going to make you subject to jail /18 months in the slammer if you have trouble with the developer.
I seem to remember MLK saying that if you make peaceful change impossible , you have opened the door to violence.
Coincidentally , the Governments are well equipped (at your expense) for just such an occasion. Is the intent to force this conflict to the next level? When does this become an issue of self defense?
People wake up!
TI should be all over this:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jan/24/journalists-charged-felonies-trump-inauguration-unrest
RESIST!!!
I appreciate your article. Can you list the bills by state and number and who is sponsoring the bill so I may scrutinize. Thank you.
Criminalizing peaceful protest is a gross violation of the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution. This Amendment states: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise of; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Criminalizing peaceful protest IS a violation of the 1st Amendment. Blocking traffic w/o any form of violence is part of the peaceful protest part of the 1st Amendment, even though such action prevents people from reaching their worplaces, but preventing emergency vehicles such as ambulances from reaching injured or ill people and taking them to hospitals isn’t covered under this Amendment.
Police are there to prevent escalation of peaceful protests from turning violent .. however, simply forming a line across a street or highway to prevent traffic from moving is not the same as rioting .. thus, state lawmakers have no right to pass legislation criminalizing peaceful protest.
ICYMI: The Constitution has been rescinded by George “Dumba$$” Bush as part of the Global Quest for Higher Corporate Profits (AKA “War on Terrorism”)… can’t let the “terrorists” win, ya know….
Re: “…Republican lawmakers have proposed an array of anti-protesting laws that center on stiffening penalties for demonstrators who block traffic; in North Dakota, conservatives are even pushing a bill that would allow motorists to run over and kill protesters so long as the collision was accidental…”
I’ve been a first responder (EMT / EMT-Paramedic), in 6 states X’s 22 yrs.
I’d guesstimate I’ve responded to, perhaps, 10,000 accidents from insurance fraud to, literally, heads, rolling…in the streets…
I wonder: Would this proposed ‘run-over-protesters’ protection idea also include Pro_Lifers, outside woman’s clinics, or…
Would we STILL have to wait until they shoot, another cop / throw-/-plant an I.E.D., first?
Mind you I’m NOT, in any way, endorsing ANYTHING any Republican suggests, let alone these anti-1St. Amendment efforts…
Nor would I endorse ANY politician’s suggestion that some fool hitting someone with a car, regardless of why it happened, (except for ‘suicide, by car’, simultaneous walking / posing for selfies), etc., should be processed any differently than they are NOW processed.
I’m merely noting that these Republicans…as, always…DON’T, seem to have thought, through their legislative proposals!
Is ALEC involved with this “movement”???
The US constitution explicitly protects the following rights: to assemble, free speech, to petition the government. A state cannot infringe on rights without due process and an interest. Remember that government exists for the people.
What a misleading title
Protesting rarely leads to legislation. Yes, protesting added some executive orders in years past, but not laws. Those who protest need to rework their focus toward electing effective legislators who can write laws rather than people who just talk. Watch as the Republicans create laws that cannot be simply torn up by a Democratic president. The ability to craft laws needs to become a party-standard prerequisite for candidacy to public office.
the effectiveness of both voting and mass protest in effecting public policy is going to be contingent on the responsiveness of the legislators and the political class in general.
the -ineffectiveness- of one of these forms of expression of popular political will hardly seems like a good argument or reason to reject the other. that legislators are not effectively beholden to the electorate doesn’t seem immediately related to clever legalese, or at least not in the manner reflecting democratic representation.
The Homicide Detective said: “Before you connect the dots, you gotta collect the dots.”
Protest restriction? Well, this … Some big pic, dark side dots . . . (half the day is dark brah)
“In general, the men of lower intelligence won out. Afraid of their own shortcomings and of the intelligence of their opponents, so that they would not lose out in reasoned argument or be taken by surprise by their quick-witted opponents, they boldly moved into action. Their enemies, on the contrary, contemptuous and confident in their ability to anticipate, thought there was no need to take by action what they could win by their brains.” – Thucydides 460 – 395 BCE
Phillip Tetlock tweet, 1.23.17: “straight from Machiavelli: Lions make history. And the hedgehogs and foxes quarrel over how best to make sense of what the lions have done”
That tweet references this from Karl Rove:
“We’re the empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality–judiciously, as you will–we’ll act again, creating other realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors… and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
**
Collapse, or large and rapid changes in the structure of a network’s relationships, is part of the when-not-if physics of non-equilibrium systems (continuously dynamic) called self-organized criticality. That will summon the selected collapse apps: ramped war and murder; genocide; rape; cannibalism; authoritarian police state; etc.
Many species will eat their children when starving.
Humans? Check the yes box.
Less than 100 years ago:
“The good people died first. Those who refused to steal or to prostitute themselves died. Those who gave food to others died. Those who refused to eat corpses died.” Timothy Snyder “Bloodlands” – writing about millions who starved in the Ukraine in the 1930s via Stalin; naturally, there was a black market for human meat. (When Stalin’s wife found out about it she shot herself in the heart.)
Collapse Sensing: http://ow.ly/DNkY306ZYEP
My Letter of Resignation: http://ow.ly/FkOt308iRjM
Blocking the road is not a means of peaceful protest. It intimidates those who have somewhere to go & are entitled to do so, and it disrupts commerce. It already is illegal & dangerous, and I am glad that the penalty for it may be stiffened. I learned the hard way in high school that blocking someone’s path is sexual harassment.
Hague v. CIO (1939)
In this case, Justice Roberts wrote that streets and parks were the most important locations for free public political speech. He wrote that:
”Wherever the title of streets and parks may rest, they have immemorially been held in trust for the use of the public and, time out of mind, have been used for purposes of assembly, communicating thoughts between citizens, and discussing public questions. Such use of the streets and public places has from ancient times, been a part of the privileges, immunities, rights, and liberties of citizens.”
Justice Roberts continued to say that even with reasonable restrictions, you couldn’t just regulate away people’s right to use the street for free expression. He continued saying:
“The privilege of a citizen of the United States to use the streets and parks for communication of views on national questions may be regulated in the interest of all; it is not absolute, but relative, and must be exercised in subordination to the general comfort and convenience, and in consonance with peace and good order; but it must not, in the guise of regulation, be abridged or denied. “
In 1939, traffic was barely a thing. If we were talking about protesting on railroad tracks, it wouldn’t even be a contentious issue.
If you were walking on railroad tracks, you’d be trespassing. Roads are a public right of way. Do you understand the difference between public and private property?
No, actually you didn’t learn anything at all.
People like you never do.
You think you’re right about everything, and that your intolerant ways are how “god wants it”, because only the “good folk” (from your delusional perspective) deserve to live their life.
THAT…. is why normal people *need* peaceful protest and why Justice Roberts decreed that, yeah, that means blocking you on the way to your gun store occasionally.
Just imagine it’s a street to an abortion clinic being blocked. Maybe that will help.
The Repugs have no respect for the people, the constitution, or democracy. How do people not see this? Repugs are taking many actions like this of late–anti-voting, cutting power from NC governor after loss, now this!!!
Did you read the article? This is about idiots that block traffic. Why should your protest be allowed to interfere with my daily commute? Even if I agree or disagree with your protest reasons why should my day, and potentially job if I am late, be put at risk?
I am a Democrat, but if you block my right or way while I’m in my car just because you want to hold a sign, you better believe I’m going to wish it was legal that I run you over so that I can eliminate your stupidity from the gene pool.
Why should your day be put at risk?
Because many protestors want you to hear their cries, to listen to what they are putting their lives at risk for. Doing something dramatic demonstrates their frustration, their grief. Many people who are protesting have very little to lose, and honestly your commute doesn’t seem as important to them as the fact that their unarmed son was shot by police or the fact that their family in North Dakota is at risk of having poisoned waters.
Are you a Democrat because you believe in equal rights? Then maybe tone done your elitist and ableist language.
Hague v. CIO (1939)
In this case, Justice Roberts wrote that streets and parks were the most important locations for free public political speech. He wrote that:
”Wherever the title of streets and parks may rest, they have immemorially been held in trust for the use of the public and, time out of mind, have been used for purposes of assembly, communicating thoughts between citizens, and discussing public questions. Such use of the streets and public places has from ancient times, been a part of the privileges, immunities, rights, and liberties of citizens.”
Justice Roberts continued to say that even with reasonable restrictions, you couldn’t just regulate away people’s right to use the street for free expression. He continued saying:
“The privilege of a citizen of the United States to use the streets and parks for communication of views on national questions may be regulated in the interest of all; it is not absolute, but relative, and must be exercised in subordination to the general comfort and convenience, and in consonance with peace and good order; but it must not, in the guise of regulation, be abridged or denied. “
Your opinion may change when your property is being ravaged by the energy extraction predators and your state legislature has placed you buns up kneeling.
“I’m a Democrat but…”
Is one the surest signs of a closeted fascist. Just embrace your true self and be done with it.
Let’s see how much they like the violent protests.
Go violent and you loose.
Yeah, violence never defeated Nazis
If you believe that, you have a deep misunderstanding of the history of protests. The successful ones always have a stick, and it’s not just the implicit threat of 200,000 people showing up at a place.
Minnesota governor lays out so many “spending goals” during a State of the State address, that he faints:
http://www.startribune.com/gov-mark-dayton-s-annual-statewide-address-likely-to-focus-on-spending-education-health-care/411547015/#1
No, he fainted because he has prostate cancer, don’t be an ass.
Washington State’s House has a Democratic Majority. The Governor is also a Democrat. I don’t think he will be signing that kind of legislation at this time.
Interesting money grab.. They will of course deny it. There is an old saying that goes somewhere along the lines that if you give up freedom for safety you get neither…. Solely about money. I can’t even say control – purely a money move against democracy – BLOCKING FREEDOM – FREE PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATIONS. A couple for years back the RNC held it’s convention in New York City unsightly rabble they ordered arrested and the police complied- locking up peaceful lawful demonstrators in unsanitary conditions costing the tax payers quite of bit of money for the settlements……IT WAS LAWFUL THEN – AS IT IS LAWFUL NOW…..the legislators need to be identified and removed – AND PROSECUTED FOR THEIR ACTIONS AGAINST OUR CONSTITUTION AND CITIZENS
These Senators, most certainly these Democrats, may have signed their own death warrants. They have appointed as CIA Head a guy who will take and act out the most inhuman and brutal policies that can be suggested, providing he is doing it for America and the God of the Bible. Pompeo is going to be able to trawl through every single American’s electronic life when Trump asks him to. And Trump will ask him to, every time an American pisses him off. The kid who tweeted him an insult that went viral? Investigate him. The newspaper reporter who wrote a really “unfair” front-page story? Yeah, him too. That professor… that movie star…the star and producer of that show that got better ratings than his last prime-time speech .. Chuck Schumer, who was so disrespectful to me after I gave him that tremendous hors’d’oeuvres spread at that meeting in January…
No doubt within all that info, Pompeo will find something that proves that the person was a terrorist sympathizer. The person will even confess, after a little enhanced interrogation. Then it’s off to Guantanamo !
Just wait until that mandatory Federal death sentence for “giving comfort to the enemy” is passed by the GOP Congress, then cleared by Trump’s Supreme Court, and carried out by Trump’s Justice Department. Imagine capital punishment in Trump’s America. There will even be a television show called something like “The Protector of the United States,” starring Trump. It starts with 15 Guantanamo prisoners, who have to sell their reasons to deserve to live. The then each week they compete being the best at convincing a group of people at a new service job that he or she is a fully Patriotic Trumpian. The audience will vote via phone, and the one who scores the lowest gets to hear Trump pronounce: “You’re outta here!” They are then taken away and immediately executed. You can watch at home if you pay a “low surcharge” on your cable bill.
How do these Democratic and non-Tea Party Caucus Republicans, think this is going to end? They’ve been building dense layers of protection to keep themselves inside a security bubble with the other important people. They’re protected from attacks by those crazy voters out there …who can tell what they might do, judging from their emails and tweets? They don’t seem to realize that the bat to the skull will be swung by Trump himself.
Either Chuck Schumer knows all this, and is already working to save his own neck when the guillotine starts falling – or he is a fool.
This is how you silence the opposition
.
The time for protesting in this corrupt, totalitarian, police-state are long gone. Eradication of this state by Guerilla Warfare is the only game left for the viable existence of humanity.
And almost all of these are leftie Tim Kaine and Terry McAuliffe states. Hey, where’d your rights go?!
Republican lawmakers
Spencer and all TI’ers:
Did you all miss the one proposed in Indiana?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/18/indiana-protest-bill-police-power
P. S. Thanks TI Staff, the site seems to be A-OK again today :-)
First they took away the ability to peacefully protest and then of course they forgot about the guns.
Be careful out there
Thank you for your work bringing these attempts to erode our First Amendment rights to our attention. I wish I felt confident that our checks and balances were healthy, and that courts could be counted on to strike down any such laws.
Spencer Woodman: Can you kindly do a follow up on who’s doing anything about this and if the ACLU is involved in any way? thx.
After usurping the nasty Ogre Mona from the Resident Evil Throne of the Intercept THE HILLFARMER bids you peace and good tidings. You are free again to express your thoughts without comment from the exiled BLM agitator Mona. Now go in peace and think of her never again!
What the fuck? That must be really great shit your smokin’.
You know… there’s a lot that I don’t agree with you on and I think the proper commenting crew of this place has a fair number of problems. I’m still sorry you have to deal with a bunch of this madness. Good luck.
Thanks, but really, ignorant boors like this Hillfarmer are easy to dispatch. The real problem with them is it takes only a moderate posting volume for them to pollute the whole discussion.
Maybe after this bit of fun the reasonable regulars should agree to just ignore this one.
The regulars agree that Mona the High Volune Page Clogger posts more than is considered normal under any circumstances.
Reply. Scroll to highlighted comment in gray if your browser doesn’t go right to it.
These crazy maniacs cannot use their power to abuse the rights of the citizens. Not these crazed politicians, no way. Get it together American law and prove these kinds of bills wrong!
i hinted at this before
The spirtual aspect of your existence is a different family belonging.
PROTESTING is an activity of that spirtual family. Protesting is not greed, not ambition, but is inspired and inspiration belongs to the spirit, and THAT COMES FIRST. Everything else is SUBJECT TO the spiritual family of human existence. Thus the rights of protest are the physical embodyment of e pluribus unum. The founders of the US knew this and did their best to put this into writing. The writers of the Bible knew this and did their best to put this into writing. This is why i say that we need to upgrade our writs by declaration in writing. That is STEP 1 of the implementation phase and it must be accomplished. THE INTERCEPT is a great place to start this process.
i am a little tired of dying and then returning to all the nonsense.
I like you, Barabbas. The other commenters here are too split in their arguments to understand this.
Folks, MONA feels she owns all comments and threads on THE INTERCEPT because she emptied Mr. Greenwald’s trash at the office when was an intern and draws ridiculous conclusions through her misguided racist viewpoints by being a BLM organizer, agitator, mud slinging atheist, professional protester, bigoted, angry black women in chief. Her repulsive and rather stinky speech, especially against white Christian males, is epic. To take anything this manhating brainwashed zombie offers through her hateful and biggoted rhetoric would be a total waste of time. Now enjoy the rest of your night reading more hate from MONA, the manhating ogre.
A woman with an opinion: worse than a n*gg*! Amirite, filthfarmer?
No just MONA the OGRE.
Is it true that you’re a commie stooge, filthfarmer? I read it on the Internets.
Oh, had I mere opinions this one would be less apoplectic. No, what’s got his boxers in a twist about is my disconcerting command of facts. Such as revealing him to be a moron for arguing that someone “collaborated” with German Nazis, in light of the fact that that someone was a toddler when Hitler came to power, and 14 when der Fuhrer offed himself in that bunker.
I confess to ridiculing poor Hillfarmer quite bit, beating him about the rhetorical head with these sad facts. He dinna like it!
Dude, were you born this way, or did they take you aside in a special class at your church and teach you to be hateful?
And Mona is Irish, I believe. I know. It’s unfathomable, why someone like her would support BLM.
filthfarmer is the wannabe Dylann Roof of TI. Fortunately his dreams only result in the occasional nightly emission.
His bed sheets are a lot stiffer than Monica’s dress.
Oh that’s low Gertrude real nasty indeed.
“Whatever you can do…”
I do find your comments shifty and witty which I can appreciate. However, murderous comparison type comments are even below you Gutter I mean Gert. Grammar check please I wasn’t sure about this one.
I don’t think I can trust your scale of good and evil.
BEHOLD Mona’s sycophants have awoken. Like worms they appear. This one seems to glow with a special kind of evil light.
It’s typical of oppressors and wannabe oppressors that they hate any push back. Hence also your hatred of BLM.
You twit.
You mean like Mona.
Your equivocations will impress no one here, apart from the village idiot Communete.
Yes, AiC, I am Irish, and so white I glow in the dark.
Have you seen the compulsive narcissist Mona’s comments two Greenwalds back where she toots her own intelligence to everyone who’ll read? But not contented with that, the intellectually insecure neurotic actually responded nearer top upthread from that to a poster critical of Intercept’s crowd, with this:
“-Mona- ? Chirpy
January 16 2017, 10:44 a.m.
They’re working on acquiring some quality control for the comments. Scroll past pests such as Communete, and substantive, informative posts are found throughout this long thread. One of mine here. There are others from a variety of contributors.”
And her “One of mine here” link points to one of her ‘serious’ pieces of site commentary.
Mona the compulsive page clogger is that intellectually insecure.
Any news about the Satanic sex kittens, Communete?
Don’t answer that: it’s rhetorical.
But “sex kittens” is a phrase of yours and Mona the poster that you rhetorically ape.
Paraphrasing, possibly.
Your weird belief systems are clear for all to see, Communete. Be proud and be counted.
Your reliance in InfoWars e.g. is most telling. It’s also quite telling about the U$A that this buffoon has an almost religious following.
Now, now, Communete, no lying and disavowing your, um, alarm over the sex kitten scourge, as revealed by one of your favorite authors, Fritz Springmeier, and his side-kick, Cisco Wheeler.
No one is EVER going to believe I came up on my own with this “sex kitten” hilarity, whihc is found all over the unhinged sectors of the Internet. Nope, that was all you. You linked to a book that included an interview with Cisco Wheeler in which she claimed to have been turned into a “sex kitten” by the Satanic Illuminati. To wit:
This deluded, pathetic woman writes books with Communete’s deeply admired pal (and ex-con, for armed bank robbery), Fritz Springmeier, which he’s linked. For:
Folks, if you wanna bit of entertainment just google “Springmeier” and “sex kitten.” You’ll get scads of sites, full of great “sex kitten” pics and descriptions of this nefarious Illuminati evil.
Only Mona would latch onto a Monarch trauma-based mind control survivor’s one time use of “sex kitten” and gleefully squeal about it until the end of time.
Translation: “Ok, so yeah, I lied and denied it, but I actually did link to insane diatribes about ‘mind-controlled’ sex kittens — she didn’t make that up. Now that she’s proven it I’m really in a snit.”
It just took you five years to find an instance where she used the phrase.
Yea I saw it. I see it all. She’s a troll of the hairiest order.
You all need hobbies
I see. The small penis brigade has made it to The Intercept. I hope it’s temporary.
I think they’ve got a system of jungle drums.
How’d you know Mona gave them to me after the BLM protest yesterday.
Are you going to attempt to answer Mona’s question, filthfarmer?
Itsy-bitsy jungle drums that they tap with their short fingers?
Jose, fair enough but heads up the tacos are ready so come on over! I have chicken tacos, pork tacos, shrimp tacos and Mona tacos. Fair warning though the Mona taco has extra beans which could cause you to further bloviate.
Go make love to your neighbor’s goat.
And tell me again how much you love my special light.
Your god is powerless against my keyboard.
Atheist in Chief your name says it all. It’s a special light indeed.
Go on. Keep showing the world how much of a douchebag you are.
Folks, Hillfarmer feels this question is among the most sleazy and offensive ever to be posted on the Internet. Do you suppose that’s why this is now the fifth time I’ve posed it with no substantive reply?
Cuz boy and howdy does our guy Hillfarmer insist that the odious views of an organization’s founder render the entire entity corrupt even a century later. If, that is, that organization is Planned Parenthood. He sure recoils, however, from any parity of reasoning regarding the United States; indeed, bringing it to his attention, I am told, is the mark of a morally corrupt person.
He’s not worth noticing except as an separate life form with an inferiority complex.
He’s a whitewinged gun totin’ victim of Black hegemony.
In other words, he’s morally retarded.
Or a Trump supporter.
Try talking in Russian, perhaps? Is his real name Leon Trollsky?
coram, the Hillfarmer would be outraged beyond all functioning to be likened to a commie. I think you know this, and are choosing to be more abusive than is usual for you. Bad, bad, coram nobis.
Sorry. I didn’t menshevik to beria so abusive.
Filthfarmer could never provide a logically consistent answer to that question. Just answering it in some way would require mental contortionism no one with his world view is capable of without a self-inflicted aneurysm.
One cannot be an outright and open racist and answer that question logically.
But I’d still like to see him try, mainly because of the ensuing aneurysm.
dang. i almost relish the way you get into these boxing matches. TI could sell tickets. no kidding. ie- you vs craigly. the viewers/readers can be judges for a small fee. no joke.
Wouldn’t work, because I always punch below my weight. Craig, Communete and the hasbara-ists are all pretty easy. Hillfarmer is as well, tho he’s in a class by himself for sheer dimwittedness combined with vile and malignant spewing. (Ok, maybe they’re two in that class: a Zionist eventually banned about a year ago for crapflooding with unrestrained, hate-filled bile. He and HF are pretty much in the same class.)
I marched in a few viet nam protests, I am sorry I didn’t join the Iraq war protests. Peaceful marches are what free speech and America are suppose to be about.
Paid provocateurs, who always cover their face, and commit violence and destruction, should go to jail.
Blocking traffic is not peaceful protest, especially if someone dies in an ambulance, which has happened. Damaging peoples cars and assaulting motorists isn’t peaceful protest either. How about this, any emergency vehicle blocked and someone dies, the protesters should be charged with felony murder.
These political prison proposals are indeed horrible — yet, there is something I don’t understand: did the racists and anti-Communists of the 1960s never contemplate to pass such laws — or did the courts overturn them?
well they set dogs on protestors, but i don’t think the likes of bull connors or lester maddox concerned themselves overmuch with laws, they knew da’s wouldn’t bring charges.
Jeeper creepers. Now we have Thomas Friedman being interviewed on Newsnight, plugging his latest bookywook,
I heard that as long as while you’re protesting you openly carry a gun, wear a make America great again hat and chew gum, you’ll be left alone.
Especially if you aim your weapon at federal officials, such as BLM officers.
I don’t understand you.
Are you for or against openly carrying a gun to a protest?
How about wearing hats that are for making America great.
Chewing gum?
Do you think the Trump adminstration should outlaw carrying guns to protests or is it peaceful protesting that gets your goat.
If your original post was sarcasm, then I think we’re on the same team…
whoopsa daisy
I also didn’t know what you meant by BLM officers
Actually no, I’m sorry. I still don’t understand your comment.
What are ‘BLM officers’?
bureau of land management. the post refers to the standoff with the cliven bundy supporters, who aimed loaded rifles at officials trying to remove the cattle from public land, iirc.
Ah. Thanks for the elucidation, pretzel!
I’m aware of the Bundy farce.
The first thing one must realize is the radical ghetto thugs of the BLM bowel movement care nothing about anyone’s rights but theirs. Their sole purpose is to agitate, sling racial slures at whites, lay down in the road like the dogs they are, stir white guilt and squat on private property. The laws are already on the books with more on the way to limit their vile and flat out racist and criminal behavior. Many more bowel movement supporters will be in jail soon and this agitating constipation will be flushed down the poo hole where it belongs!
If anyone on this planet needs his white guilt stirred, it is you, Hillfarmer.
Your fecal references are certainly understandable, of course; you are a vile piece of shit.
Now, now Dougie calm down I’m sure we can find a pussy hat that fits you just relax.
White victimhood is not attractive to you Hillfarmer.
You have no idea.
All in the same sentence…
Yes, it does have a ring to it. But Wait are you arm chairing my sentence structure again? Maybe I should type in Ebonics to where you could actually comprehend it without scrutiny.
You should take your shite to The Daily Stormer. Andrew Anglin wants to bear hug you.
it just sounds stupid, whiny and racist, like the rest of your posts on the topic.
Do you have any sense how readers might be offended by your scatological comments? And, I mean “offended” in the way the heart hurts in the presence of such pain which can be the only cause for communicating such unadulterated meanness.
About what?! Massa Hillfarmer treats ’em so dang well!
The first thing one must realize is the radical ghetto thugs of the BLM bowel movement care nothing about anyone’s rights but theirs.
nah, i doubt that.
indeed that US is a racialy divided country – just consider the percent of intermarriages. in a competitive operating environment where life support resources are up for grabs, i dont believe the nation will stay in one piece. i believe that the US is likely to break up into city states.
may your conditions be pre-existing!
Doesn’t everybody remember when Democrats proposed the exact same sorts of laws against all the Tea Party protesters? Oh wait…
I support the proposed Washington state law. Major traffic disruptions can cost millions of dollars per day. This is not civil disobedience, unless their grievance is with interstate trucking, the existence of particular highways, etc. I’ll grant that in the past such protests may have been necessary for movements to create public awareness. They also act as a means to coerce broader society to the cause of the movements. While the public awareness component is aligned with the spirit of the First Amendment, the coercive component was always anti-democratic. Social media has obsoleted the public awareness component, leaving behind anti-democratic behavior that should be treated more harshly than it currently is.
When at last they come for you too, there will be no one left to recue you.
I think Tim’s safe, Gert. They probably aren’t going to come for fellow fascists.
Real fascists are quite smart. Timmy’s too dumb to survive fascist office politics.
They did on the Night of Long Knives.
Disrupting traffic is far more serious than gross attacks on civil liberties and civil rights. Only the worst sorts of people disrupt traffic for their minor concerns.
I’m with you in spirit, sis … but dam that traffic jam https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/nyregion/bridgegate-trial.html?_r=0
*bottom line is if you don’t speak out, we can’t hear you … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNeZ3f7Po38
For a fairly large segment of the American population, blocking traffic is utterly unforgivable. They are as devoted to their cars and “freedom to drive” as they are to their loved ones — and much more devoted to the automobile than to their neighbors or to, say, justice or other social issues.
The average American in this cohort is prone to fly into a rage if a pedestrian or cyclist dares to slow his or her vehicular travel for even a few seconds and the very notion of deliberately blocking a roadway makes the blood positively boil.
That’s why criminalizing, specifically, protest actions that interrupt or block car traffic is such a popular form of “crackdown.”
As a long ago friend explained: Americans are Vroomanians.
Damn straight.
Guess you don’t have a lot of public cycle lanes in Vroomania, right?
Same here, of course.
“The average American in this cohort is prone to fly into a rage if a pedestrian or cyclist dares to slow his or her vehicular travel for even a few seconds and the very notion of deliberately blocking a roadway makes the blood positively boil.”
^^^^^THIS^^^^^
There are many public spaces to protest without infringing on the rights of others. When you start imposing on other people, you had better have a just cause.
@TimPopham
In case you haven’t been noticing… public spaces are increasingly being privatized.
The right to PROTEST is at least for now, part of our Constitution. Please don’t advocate shredding that because of small inconveniences.
Huh? The right to protest in the middle of a highway is important for lack of public spaces? The post office was important, now the Internet is important.
@Tim Popham –
Sorry, but your reasoning isn’t making much sense…
You’re claiming that there’s such a dearth of public space in America that protesters must resort to high risk situations like protesting on a highway (my original post is regarding a specific law in Washington state that targets such “protests”). This is absurd. Protesters are choosing to disrupt highway traffic because this is an efficient means to hurt the economy.
The post office and the Internet allow free speech to flourish in the total absence of public spaces.
@Tim Popham –
Yes, public spaces ARE being privatized, and not just here in the U. S.. It certainly has ramifications:
http://theconversation.com/public-spaces-are-going-private-and-our-cities-will-suffer-60460
You said: “Protesters are choosing to disrupt highway traffic because this is an efficient means to hurt the economy.” Oh gee, we wouldn’t want to hurt the economy now, would we? After all a hit to the pocketbook is about the only thing the elites pay attention to.
You mention the Post Office and the Internet. Well, for now, the Internet, at least here in the U. S. is still pretty open. But there is still surveillance going on, and there might be kill switches around that who knows — may be put to use against free speech, although one would hope not. And already the post office copies the metadata of all mail.
Don’t be fooled. There ARE threats to free speech. Just try to be a bit more flexible. Folks ARE protesting for reasons. Who knows —- the day might come when YOU see a reason to protest. I’m sure you would want that right. You might even then feel like blocking traffic…
Right. There exists a just traffic disruption, therefore all traffic disruptions are just.
Said who?
Says Mona: https://theintercept.com/2017/01/23/lawmakers-in-eight-states-have-proposed-laws-criminalizing-peaceful-protest/?comments=1#comment-342757
of course
i understand
gotta get to work
YUCK FOU
Demonstrating for human rights is more important than work.
You don’t have the right to impose that value judgement on others.
In what way is he doing that?
Carolyn is doing that by pretending that my work and her protests are mutually exclusive activities, that my work must stop until she decides to stop demonstrating.
(ahem…) that is what i said, yes?
Ooh! Nice. I expect we’ll hear Jeff Sessions’ solicitor general make that same argument to SCOTUS.
Next: All “free speech zones” shall henceforth be virtual. A list of approved URLs will be issued by Homeland Security next week,
You’ll be allowed to protest in the confines of your own home. No guests, no webcams and Tinkernet switched off.
“Collect your wages at the Company store, please.”
I like the idea of Virtual Free Speech Zones, as long as I can also have Virtual Waterboarding overseen by a Virtual President, elected by a Virtual College… And blipverts. Lots and lots of blipverts
Max Headroom for President in 20/20.
Any publicly owned areas are free speech zones as long as it’s not infringing on the rights of others. Americans are pretty tolerant of little infringements, but I’ve heard the messages, researched the claims, rejected most of the claims, and moved on. On that basis, I support legislators that argue to better constrain these irrational, anti-social protesters.
Oh yes, when I was kid the really smart and reasonable people had fits over Martin Luther King’s marches, closing bridges, streets and all kinds of mischief. If ever a man was irrational and anti-social, it was MLK.
Comparing the demands of today’s movements to MLK’s is absurd.
Wow Tim. Sounds as though you are easily coerced. As for me, not so much.
we’re talking about non-violent civil disobedience. that some find it inconvenient is rather the point, but in any event it can’t be characterized as equivalent to coercion or felonious intent. you render those terms meaningless by failing to differentiate.
I’m not going to ask how he feels about strikes.
Okay. The cost of some acts of civil disobedience is greater than others. I’ve seen many traffic disruptions centered around unjust causes. I’m fine with discouraging these with stronger punitive measures. If you really believe in your cause, then incarceration shouldn’t stop you. Good luck.
that you’re fine with it isn’t really a mitigating factor, let alone a justification. the fact that so many Americans are fine with an increasingly authoritarian, violent and militarized government, aimed principally at its own citizenry is the point being made in the article.
I’m speaking about the particular law proposed in Washington state. These activists are becoming increasingly disruptive, but I disagree with the justness of many of their causes. Many Americans share my point of view. Civil disobedience is principled law-breaking. This implies that the activists have accepted the carceral implications of their actions. These laws propose changing those carceral implications to disrupt the activists’ behavior.
without meaning to be snide, i believe you’re underscoring my point. the notion of proportional penalties, particularly in the constitutional context where political dissent is involved, can’t be determined by your agreement with the dissenters. what you’re describing could just about serve as a definition of political persecution.
your momentary inconvenience doesn’t become a crime of felony proportion merely because you don’t sympathize with the protestors. that would violate the whole premise of constitutional rights having to do with non-violent forms of political protest.
The Washington state law doesn’t target specific ideas. Non-dissenters have the right to mold the shape of admissible dissent when it infringes on our natural rights. Civil disobedience is a socially accepted luxury that we grant to people, trusting that they’ll use it judiciously for just causes. When I see people abusing that generosity sufficiently many times with few intervening just causes, then I dissent. I’ll grant that gov’t is particularly amenable to my dissent in this case. It’s like it was already on my side before my fellow dissenters and I made our case–very mysterious.
again, you underscore the complacency that was at issue in the first place.
however you state your contempt, it doesn’t amount to a legal or ethical argument for disregarding fundamental constitutional concepts concerning expression of political expression and assembly and penalties proportional to the crime.
there is simply no way to construe a statement such as, “i’m sooo annoyed” as a legal argument. it doesn’t matter that you don’t care, no matter how emphatically you might say so.
expressions of political dissent.
sorry.
You neuter infringements of my liberty under “the crime.” I’ve never cited my feelings as a legal argument. I have every right to yell “Go to hell!” and go about my business. I don’t get to lock you in my basement until you agree to align with me politically. That behavior comes with a penalty. The penalty for such behavior lies on the spectrum of proportional penalties for these “protests.” Point me to other data points on that spectrum if you want to have a conversation about proportional penalties.
” Civil disobedience is principled law-breaking. This implies that the activists have accepted the carceral implications of their actions.”
and yet it’s you and other supporters of these proposed new laws that want to change the rules. and merely because you disagree with the protesters.
i’m not sure which is worse, that you can’t see the contradictions or that you don’t care.
These penalties manage the economy of civil disobedience. Society can only handle so much. The increase in civil disobedience recently has been largely manufactured by private organizations and manipulations within the academy, e.g. https://www.nas.org/images/documents/NAS_makingCitizens_executiveSummary.pdf. I’ll grant that the spread of information about the changed penalties is problematic, but judging by articles like this I expect the understanding to spread pretty quickly.
When do Americans pay attention to political matters? If roadblocks are coercive, they are direct, public, body–on-the-line action for what’s deemed crucial for the public good (in the eyes of the protesters). Big money purchasing legislators is also coercive and anti-democratic, only this form is covert, secretive, money but not body-on-the-line for what’s deemed crucial for moneyed interests (not the 99%). Calculated gerrymandering is coercive and profoundly manipulative and anti-democratic and generally occurs outside public awareness. In its case, the system of representative democracy is profoundly contaminated and damaged. There was a reason James Madison – who knew well the operation of a tyrannical government – insured the freedom of assembly in the First Amendment. When you don’t own the means of communication (TV/newspapers) and your vote doesn’t count (jerrymandering), assembling in the street to petition the government to listen (via the resulting uproar) does no physical harm to anyone and definitely makes the collective voice heard. It’s a form that carries honesty and integrity – which cannot be said for the purchasing of representatives and jerrymandering.
Granting that Americans don’t pay attention to political matters, where do you draw the line between coercing Americans into listening versus coercing Americans into particular voting patterns? The latter is immoral, and my original post pointed out the distinction: https://theintercept.com/2017/01/23/lawmakers-in-eight-states-have-proposed-laws-criminalizing-peaceful-protest/?comments=1#comment-342750.
I’m not particularly interested in defending a bunch of problems with American governance, but I will point out that the Internet and social media has provided a democratic means of communication. Further, the current protests seem centered around issues that were argued extensively during the election. Petitioning from the streets is absurd in this case because their arguments were heard prior to the election. I’ll grant some sympathy for protests around issues that weren’t included in the election, but I’m at a loss to think of any.
This kind of initial proposal is nothing more than getting a foot in the door.
The next step, while sliding down the slope, will attack protesters even more.
A way in politics that’s as old as politics itself.
of course.
YOU CANNOT SHOOT PROTESTERS UNLESS THEY ARE CRIMINALS.
example – SYRIA – protesting is illegal and a criminal act. Bashar al Assad was within his LEGAL rights to shoot protesters – yet the US PROTESTED.
evil awakened. hell has risen. you figured i was exaggerating?
i tell you the truth
until you have individual rights of immediate recourse as if war were declared upon you, you are doomed.
example – do you have the right to defend your rights? NO YOU DO NOT.
i tell you before the lesson of the sticks and the branch
oddly – it is the damned republicans whose “guns for everyone” stance matches their willingness to strip you of everything else to what, get you to shooting back?
new law
the CONSTITUTION PROTECTION ACT
Elected persons who act to propose laws that appear to violate the constitution of the US will be immediately removed from office, lose their license to practices law and forever barred from holding an elected or appointed public office.
or are we all palestinians now?
https://theintercept.com/2016/12/02/senate-responds-to-post-trump-anti-semitism-by-targeting-students-who-criticize-israel/?comments=1#comment-318384
“i tell you the truth
until you have individual rights of immediate recourse as if war were declared upon you, you are doomed.”
Funny thing, that. Those of us who are prior service have not actually been released from our oath to:
“[S]upport and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.”
The last CIC (Clown In Chief) driving The Clown Car tried to (unsuccessfully) subvert that, while the new CIC simply has no clue. Make America Great Again… Sure. Looking back to a “better time” is often very therapeutic. In many respects, 1775 was a very good year.
We may indeed live in Interesting Times…
“Those of us who are prior service have not actually been released from our oath”
“The Oath of enlistment is something that every service member must promise and adhere to for his/her entire military career.” http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/swearing-in-for-military-service.html
You are released when you no longer have any obligation for military service under terms of your enlistment or appointment, including any period of reserve obligation. Put another way, you are no longer under oath once you are no longer subject to the UCMJ.
The content of the link you sent does not mean what you think it means. It certainly does not support your claim(s). It speaks of the beginning of the obligation, not its termination. Aside from the oath, the rest of what you link includes, in total:
“Everyone who joins the military has one thing in common, they must swear-in by repeating the enlisted or officer Oath. The Oath of enlistment is something that every service member must promise and adhere to for his/her entire military career. From the Oath, you can see that you will be defending the Constitution – not a person. Discipline and accepting orders is sworn to. Finally, you vow to face the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) should any disputes arise.”
(and)
“Before you raise your right hand, make sure you understand what you are swearing or attesting to. The oath of enlistment should not be taken lightly, you will be bound by it for the next 4 to 6 years at a minimum.”
Further, you assert the link between the oath taken, and the UCMJ, nothing more. Not being bound by the UCMJ does not mean any oath taken has been rescinded/unbound/etc.
It may well be a simple oversight, but, separation papers (at least all the many sets I’ve seen, including mine and my father’s) are all about EOS (End of Obligated Service) _not_ rescinding/unbounding the oath taken.
The Republicans are rapidly morphing into the Putinista Party.
Their new theme song will be performed by Putie’s Boyz, and is entitled,
“Gettin’ Bad With Vlad”.
Da, Daddio!
Idiot.
If only life (and politics) was that simplistic.
Ya know–good buys, bad guys–us vs. them, Dems good–Repubs bad.
Idiot indeed. Always sad to find some at TI.
Gotta love those freedom-loving Republicans.
Senator Snowball Inhofe introduced an eco-terrorism law in 2005 .
The ACLU will be all over this. Likely, so will UCLA.
This site is one of the leaders in fake news.
I recommend firing all of the racist SJW’s if you want to be taken seriously
Can you give a recent example?
I recommend you go back to your fair and balanced news sources: 4chan and MSM. They are more suited for your level of cognition.
Naw…faux and talk radio
‘Joe’ is as clueless as the alt-right gets and doesn’t even know what fake news actually means.
I’d recommend RoK where he can play in the mud with the other two digit IQs.
Joe is a wingnut who has no clue about this site, how it is run, or anything else. He actually thought the writers here were told what and how to write in substance by the editors.
It’s wise to reflexively dismiss anyone who drops the “SJW” term other than when used ironically. They’re always idiots.
And the ones who preface it with “racist”. . .
We should always keep in mind this one point: The political elite of the United States never support collective and democratic political acts. The Constitution seeks to neutralize the demos as a political force. And laws are always available that make public and democratic speech and assembly ineffective or illegal. And when these laws do not exist but are needed, the will exist eventually. And, as we know, the police and military can kill or jail citizens with impunity.
Did you just search for proposed state legislation for the first time? Insane things get proposed all the time. How is this news?
Hey Rick – I believe it’s extremely important at this point in time for all progressives to know what is being proposed – those of us interested in contacting congress and our senators need prior warning that this has been proposed at the state level so that we may write to or call our representatives. If they’re not going to ask me what I think – I’m going to call or write and tell them!
But, the point is that these loony proposals have died natural deaths without your participation. I fear that giving attention to this stuff might actually have unintended consequences. Most likely, it’s just a waste of everyone’s time and a detractor from more important and pressing matters.
It’s not only news, it’s incredibly important news. We now have an authoritarian as President of the United States who is busy appointing other dangerous authoritarians to positions of power.
Protests are going to be many and intense, and some will almost certainly involve some levels of violence — not all of by the police. Civil libertarians absolutely should be monitoring what lawmakers at every level — municipal, state and federal — have it in their authoritarian minds to do about it.
If that was an attempt at snark, I’d try another genre if I were you (perish the thought!)
The major problem with this kind of legislation is that it gives the police discretion in how to behave toward protesters, and we all know what that means. If they shoot or injure someone, police won’t be prosecuted for it. These bills remove police liability and emboldens an aggressive stance. Most important, it alters the right to protest by removing or limiting the opportunity. This is what’s happened to the abortion right.
Laws that promote police violence and shield them from responsibility are just not good. These laws also protect corporations over the people.
Is the the USA or China…wtf….
Is *this* the USA or China…wtf…
Welcome to the world of Russia. Get used to it :D
???????.
TI doesn’t recognize Cyrillic letters, it seems. I wonder if that’s an augury of some kind. Vlad!
Correct. .. I’ve been trying to communicate in Russian (cyrillic letters) with Benito Mussolini since Putin ‘hacked the election’ in a ?????? coup.
*it’s good to have you back coram.
Thank you, and I believe TI will print Italian letters if you want to reach Il Duce. Volere è potere, and all that.
TI only recognizes (in comments, anyway) the “Latin 1″ (ISO 8859-1) character set. I’m not sure whether the techies just haven’t heard about UTF-8 or if it’s a deliberate strategy to keep the Russkie and Chicom operatives from using the site to transmit messages in their sinister native languages.
http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2017/01/20/billionaire-george-soros-has-ties-to-more-than-50-partners-of-the-womens-march-on-washington/
Only 50?
He better get busy and contact the other ~499,950 women who were there….as well as the however many millions were marching elsewhere across the country and the world.
My neighbor and her son, who were there, couldn’t care less about Soros….or Hillary Clinton.
Barry Eisler went with his 18-year-old daughter. Far as I know, Barry’s never met George!
Yeah but you know that Joooooos have those mysterious powers, right?
/sarc off
That evil George Soros gives money to liberal causes?
O!
M!
G!
Somebody gives money to liberals. LIBERALS are just hypocritical scumbags because they take money from George Soros. And we already know George Soros is a scumbag because he gives money to liberal causes. Not like that kind Mr. Adelson and that restrained Mr. Trump.
Oh the fetid moral stink!
These boutique liberals remind us of their own righteousness while not giving Republican talking points a fair chance.
What next? Neonazi Richard Spencer embedding a European Identity movement within the “alternative right” point of view.
Too late, the NYTimes got there first too.
Neo-nazi??
How unfair! A kind and geeky rightist tired of affirmative action punishing his well-intentioned white people. What’s wrong with a European identity movement of our own. Liberals are so unfair all because they take money from that evil George Soros
I wonder if George Soros controls the New York Times editorial policy like he controls the rest of the nefarious liberal agenda. Look at how many people he has conned! (He’s not in Trump’s league yet, even though he’s been trying ever since that wonderful Mr. Bush said such nice things about Muslims. But you know that’s what he wants because that’s what Republicans say he wants. And if you can’t trust a Republican president who can you trust?)
It’s all sooooo complicated. My brain hurts. Maybe I can find one of those inauguration invisibility cloaks on ebay and just fuckin’ disappear.
It’s a shame to see those poor conservatives desperately struggling to make their voices heard in the screaming liberal mediaverse. It’s like there’s no fairness or balance in our nightmarish Sorosworld. It would be wonderful if there were a media space where conservatives could go to feel safe.
Maybe if the conservatives organized a worldwide people’s mass protest immediately after Clinton’s inauguration.
I wonder who would would sponsor it though.
Republicans need a sugar daddy like George Soros!
usa_naziland; the dying legacy of a failed empire coming clearly into focus for the world at large. I’ve known it for a longtime that the vile evil establishment would threaten the world with ww3 just before its flatly ignored by the international community. This america is just vocalizing what its been doing silently & with a cold black heart around the world. Kill & murdering for ‘our society’ as in american’s supposed protection. Good riddance to humanities stain on history.
Now now, the term is Protecting Our Freedom!
These republican and authoritarian law makers are lucky the people they continue to oppress are so strong, resilient, and polite.
Karma catches up with everyone.
Yeah, up to a point. The damn holding back the wrath of the disenfranchised and victims of the Inequality State is already beginning to crack. And once it does, lord help these sonsabitches as full blown anarchy will see them burning alive in the streets. It’s only a matter of time. After all..even Piketty warned them. As usual though…they aren’t listening. I mean.. look who’s in the White House. The posterchild for the Billionaire Class.
Protesters should have sense enough to stay off roads, bridges or train tracks. Most of them do. Keep laws to a minimum. In this case it looks like a license to kill.
Our elected leaders should have the good sense to follow the constitution. A few of them do.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
Oh no! I think I know who killed JFK now.
i was thinking about that same comment, unfortunately the elite have now more sophisticated means of suppressing those who oppose them. in the book the age of acquiescence, the working class was suppressed in the 1800’s, remember the rich man who said i can hire 1/2 to kill the other……
This is really scary! I believe this would be against the amendment for freedom to gather and speech? How many of our rights can he take away from us? One reason I think, is his glory of believing he is a kingly god. THIS ALL HAS TO STOP OR WE WILL BE LIVING IN CAGES! This hitler crap must be stopped as soon as possible.
This woman gets it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrnACRaiuOU
She’s a true progressive. Lover her passion.
Really? Here’s a far better example of why public protest needs to be protected:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6ofCjjUz-Q
Scarlett Johnsson speech at women’s march, directed to Trump:
Trump isn’t really the problem there as much as that backwards collection of right-wing traditional Republicans like Paul Ryan and Ted Cruz and Trump’s VP, Mike Pence, out to gut public health care and return the U.S. to some kind of 1950s-era racist sexist mentality.
Ryan/Pence/Cruz are fearful, frightened weaklings who act out of fear …. I think this copy/paste from Wikipedia on schadenfreude describes their MO best: Rabbi Harold S. Kushner in his book When Bad Things Happen to Good People describes schadenfreude as a universal, even wholesome reaction that cannot be helped. “There is a German psychological term, Schadenfreude, which refers to the embarrassing reaction of relief we feel when something bad happens to someone else instead of to us.” He gives examples and writes, “[People] don’t wish their friends ill, but they can’t help feeling an embarrassing spasm of gratitude that [the bad thing].”
“Trump isn’t really the problem there as much as that backwards collection of right-wing traditional Republicans….”
yeah, maybe not.
http://www.vox.com/identities/2017/1/23/14356582/trump-global-gag-rule-abortion
“President Donald Trump reinstated an executive order Monday barring US foreign aid from going to any nongovernmental organization (NGO) that either provides abortion services, or even discusses abortion with its patients as an option for family planning.”
Well, that’s the best indication yet that Trump will be a one-term President. Catering to the far-right religious fanatic evangelicals is not a winning strategy for the general election. I still bet Pence was the one pushing hardest for that, though.
That’s one thing about these times: even if our Leader were to resign tomorrow, the Congress and the state legislatures will continue with this mischief — and, worse yet, the police forces are already making full use of existing powers. See, e.g., the felony charges against this weekend’s demonstrators in DC.
It’s a little difficult to peacefully disperse when a group is kettled — and violence may be a tactic not limited to demonstrators.
http://www.alternet.org/trumps-america-felony-riot-charges-against-inauguration-protesters-signal-dangerous-wave-repression
Do you know of any legislation like this being pushed in Georgia?
>laws that center on stiffening penalties for demonstrators who block traffic
So not “anti-protester,” just pro everyone who’s just trying to go about their business. A “peaceful” protest does not infringe others’ rights.
>obstructing or tampering with oil and gas equipment would be reclassified from a misdemeanor to a “class 6” felony,
So vandalism is peaceful?
>increase penalties for people who engage in an “unlawful assembly” after “having been lawfully warned to disperse.”
Does the author believe ALL forms of protest are sacrosanct? Is there any such thing as an unlawful assembly?
Depends on whether this article, the draft law, or commenters here are conflating protests with sabotage. A court can find a law void if it’s overbroad or too vague, but it doesn’t help if the debate is overbroad to begin with, as if there’s a continuum between a group of people holding signs on the one hand, and dynamite on a pipeline valve on the other.
yes. anti-protestor. a felony charge for blocking traffic is decidedly anti-protestor, when a “vip” convoy or red carpet/celebrity event does the same thing.
If a protest marching down a street blocks traffic, that’s not “infringing other’s rights” as defined by the Constitution. After all those who don’t like the protest can hold their own counter-protest; if they were refused that option, then their rights would be “infringed”.
Likewise, a protest that disrupts the operations of oil and gas operations is no different from a labor strike at a factory, and that could also be interpreted as “disrupting operations” and criminalized. That’s why such laws are fundamentally unconstitutional.
In reality, they represent real fascism, which is the alliance of state and corporate power into an authoritarian system that denies the rights of the individual to protest against their activities.
Of course it is infringing on the rights of those who just want to get where they are going. Telling them they can hold their own protest is very much like telling the peasants to eat cake.
i think you’re playing a little fast and loose with the concept of rights.
What do you mean? People do not have a right to get where they want to go?
Of course you have a right to get where you want to go. We all do. Last week I was stuck behind a salt/sanding truck for 30 minutes on the highway. I got where I wanted to go-late!
i mean there are shades of meaning associated with the term, “right.”
in the broadest possible sense, you have a right to all kinds of things. for instance, you have the right to urinate, but the usual social (and legal, in some situations) requirement that you refrain from doing so at any given moment doesn’t really seem like a violation.
in a similar sense, the proposition that a traffic delay is an imposition against a right is just sloppy rhetoric.
Have you read the first amendment? Do you realize there are five parts to the first amendment? There are no protest zones proscribed in the first amendment. There are reasons that the First Amendment is first.
I wonder how many paid trolls are on this site. I wonder how many disruptors of democracy and true haters of freedom are paid to come here and write Fascist bile and disinformation.
I suppose it’s OK to kill people but heaven for bid the destruction of property, especially the property and the tools that are used to drive The entire planet into an uninhabitable Hell hole.
Please forgive the punctuation errors as I am using voice activated Apple crap software. It was a gift and I begged not to receive anything from this corrupt and disgusting Company but beggars can’t be choosers.
Newsflash – some people don’t even have computers or Internet access! Imagine that.
Strange, isn’t it.
If it’s oppressive, backwards, ideological, biased and against basic decency, you can be sure it’s coming from the Republican Party.
People like to say they’re both the same, but they’re not. They both compete in the same terrain for the same voters, but just look at the difference between Republican legislation and Democratic legislation.
Or look at how the two different parties fill the State bureaucracy — party hacks and amateurs versus professionals and experts.
Or how they analyze problems as this case shows. If you don’t like protests, don’t fix the problem, attack those bringing attention to the problems.
There’s NO FU”;KIN BOTH !!
Did you know that 96% of Washington DC voted for Clinton ?
Dilemma is (a) DC is not a state but governed by Congress to some extent, and (b) a crackdown on this constituency is exactly what the powers-that-be may want.
Oh Coram ,, thanks for your tutorial on what the DC in Washington DC is .
But aside from being a District of Columbia ( Columbia ? ) it is where the US Government and all it’s paid servants coagulate .
The constituency of DC is well trained , well behaved . They just got a little rattled , thanks in part to Hillary’s rhetoric , at the prospect of a non DC type coming in . It’s the same with the MSM !
I’m thinking of the people who actually live there and not necessarily work in the mines of Mordor. The ones who don’t commute in from Silver Spring or Vienna or wherever outside.
Pay no attention to m. Clearly this person hasn’t actually been to DC or known anyone who actually lives there. The people who actually live in DC are the proles while the Inner and Outer party members commute from Maryland, Baltimore, Virginia…from around the country and world…
Yet …
… here we are writing legislation legalizing murder for those who might
inconvenience us.
One group says, “YEAH, Kill ’em.”
The other group says, “Are you fuckin’ nuts?”
The answer to that last question is painfully obvious.
“We elected Trump didn’t we?”
Stop being so defensive about it. Be proud.
Maybe reality will catch up with you.
“If it’s oppressive, backwards, ideological, biased and against basic decency, you can be sure it’s coming from the Republican Party.”
Really? Let’s take North Dakota Democratic Senator Heidi Heitkamp’s response to the DAPL protest movement, which is obviously a motivator for this push to criminalize protest:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/05/the-dakota-pipeline-fight-is-not-winnable-nd-democratic-sen-heidi-heitkamp-says.html
If we look into who is behind the Dakota Access Pipeline, we find a list of big donors to both the Republican and Democratic Parties, explaining the Democratic silence on the issue from Obama and Clinton and their cohort:
Likewise, ND Senator Heitkamp has close ties to this circle of pipeline investors:
It’s no secret that the majority of the Democratic Party has sold its soul to Wall Street donors, and every Democrat who tries to take a different direction is visciously attacked by the Clinton Democrats, as the whole Debbie Wasserman-DNC-Bernie Sanders episode demonstrated.
You know it is really stupid to respond to Milton’s general statement with an example of one. Republicans and democrats are different, although not so much when normalized on a global political scale. But the differences are important, and to deny it is just to ignore reality in a way no less ignorant than what Trump and his followers do.
Milt ,, do you think discussion by itself , will make people like Dick Cheney change ?
Do you really think POWER can be made to give up its control by voting ?
Yeah ,, Gandhi me ,, but in fact the overwhelming majority of Indians live the same way , IF NOT WORSE , than they did before Gandhi .
All this foolish nonsense wrt the basic goodness of human nature is BS .
Historical evidence weighs heavily on the side of human evilness !!
When pirates are rewarded, there will be more pirates rather than fewer.
When you feed the wolves, the wolves grow stronger rather than weaker.
When you turn your back helplessly on men like Cheney — or Trump — they win.
I may not be able to change it, but I’ll be goddamned if I stay silent in this shitstorm.
I agree with you in principle that peaceful protest needs to be protected.
There is some very concerning vagueness in the Virginia Laws that needs to be seriously challenged.
But in all honesty how is blocking traffic and sabotaging equipment peaceful in any way?
All those laws are doing is increasing the penalty for an already illegal and in most cases dangerous behavior. All one has to do is look at all the gas line explosions in Mexico to get an idea of what can happen when those things are not properly protected.
really? blocking traffic?
Why criminalize first amendment behavior at all? There are already laws for trespassing and obstruction, so there’ s no need for these new laws.
Further, the Civil Rights movement and American Revolutionaries did similar things to blocking traffic – should those people have been punished? Do you really believe that Birmingham was right to put MLK in jail for weeks at a time?
Hey ,, it’s against the Law to forcibly overturn the government !!
Guess why ?
Right ,,, because Might Makes Right ( and the LAW ) !!
Indeed, the civil rights movement were testing the limits of assembly and police response, although their intent was, quite often, to break segregation laws in order to face arrest and a public trial on the merits of the law.
As for the revolutionaries, I’m not sure I’d characterize Lexington and Concord as blocking traffic. For one thing, both sides had gathered arms and weren’t doing the we-shall-overcome bit. Things have a way of escalating to new levels.
Nice two-faced PR method you’re using there. Under such proposed laws, however, this kind of activity would be criminalized:
Dakota Pipeline Protesters Block Work Crews, Nov 16 2016
Just look into the militarized nature of the attacks on the DAPL protest movement, to see what a fascist crackdown on civil liberties in the United States would look like – and yes, “fascist” is the right word to describe this, since fascism (as in Italy and Germany and Japan) was an authoritarian alliance between state and corporate power that viewed the protection of individual human rights as a threat to the power structure.
That’s the real principle you’re promoting, isn’t it?
“Blocking traffic?” Obstructing-the-sidewalk or blocking traffic ordinances are one of the oldest police gimmicks going, especially if it’s the accused’s word against the cop.
As for sabotaging equipment — something that shouldn’t be linked in the same sentence to obstructing traffic — states no doubt already have laws against vandalism or otherwise damaging property. Calling it “sabotage” is a short step from calling it a form of espionage; the word itself may carry a vagueness.
Certainly Colorado’s proposed “attempts to alter, obstruct, interrupt, or interfere with the action of any equipment used or associated with oil or gas gathering operations” is, along with these other proposals, constitutionally void as being overbroad or vague. Here’s one example:
This is truly frightening. Thank you for the story and now off to post it to Reddit.
“No one’s life, liberty or property is safe when the Legislature is in session.” However, these are draft bills, which may not clear both houses, or the governor’s signature, or court review — in the short run. In the long run, 1st Amendment cases are apt to wind up in Federal courts, and after two or three years of this administration’s appointments to Federal District and circuit courts, it may be a new dynamic.
Then you can worry.
Ever since the W years it has been clear that fascism in the US would be a gentle insidious version of the old fashioned ball buster. No internment camps or bullets in the back of get head are necessary. Instead, it is the method of thousands of paper cuts. Just keep increasing the penalties gradually; just introduce laws that some see as outrageous, but laws that most people do not notice, or think do not matter, or are inapplicable.
Yes, it is incremental defreedomization. Is that so hard to understand? Perhaps it will not work. Perhaps Trump is too much too soon.
And, it’s worth noting that it was Obama who kept many of the Bush laws- and targeted OWS with a nationwide crackdown led by DHS and Rahm.
“There ought to be limits to freedom.”- George W. Bush, May 21, 1999
It’s also worth noting that the Honan Square scandal broke well into Rahm Emmanuel’s term as mayor of Chicago. You remember that, a “black site” where the CPD was holding people incommunicado? As mayor he should have known or must have known about it.
So it’s not just the laws to worry about. If the police discard the rule of law, then all bets are off.
No internment camps ? Right ,,, we got the ALTERNATE FACT of Profit Prisons !
As for outrageous laws what about THE ESPIONAGE ACT of WW I ?
Seem’s the Outgoing Boy called that little bit of legality into play several times when his master cracked the whip .
Ain’t no change Mike , just another click of the old power ratchet !!
Maybe you need to calm down and look at what has actually happened in other countries, and continues to happen outside of the US.
I live here !!! I look here !!! I am HERE !!~
That and with the classified development of technology, the Future Gulag will be a prison of the MIND.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKeDcF1v_Y4&feature=youtu.be&t=6
Get past the 4secs of maketing BS and listen !!