Countering violent extremism programs, intended to prevent homegrown terrorism, have never been an easy sell with targeted communities in the United States. Civil liberties organizations have criticized them as a potential threat to freedom of expression, while Muslim American organizations have claimed that government-led CVE initiatives unfairly stigmatize their community.
Never popular in the first place, domestic counterextremism programs are now likely to become much more aggressive and bellicose. President Trump reportedly plans to redirect counterextremism programs to focus exclusively on Muslim Americans to the exclusion of other groups.
While in practice most CVE programs in the United States already target Muslim communities, President Barack Obama did his best to portray these policies as a form self-empowerment, describing them in a 2015 speech as an effort to help “communities to protect [from violent] ideologies and recruitment.” Under the Obama administration, the federal government rolled out CVE pilot programs in Boston, Los Angeles, and Minnesota. Last year, the Department of Homeland Security authorized $10 million in grants to local NGOs working to “counter violent extremism in the homeland.”
Despite their controversial nature, CVE programs did receive some level of interest from communities in the United States during the Obama administration. Counterterrorism experts say that the new administration — which engages in rhetoric and behavior overtly discriminatory toward Muslim Americans — will likely destroy many existing partnerships while generating opposition to new programs.
“There were some people who saw CVE as the ‘good’ or ‘liberal’ version of the war on terror, and they are likely going to feel uncomfortable about [Trump],” said Arun Kundnani, a professor at New York University. “You will see more resistance from some individuals and groups — including Muslim community organizations that had signed up for CVE under Obama.”
Some of that resistance is already starting to materialize.
Last week, the Minnesota-based Somali-American community group Ka Joog announced that it was declining a $500,000 Department of Homeland Security CVE grant, citing concerns about the new administration. The Somali community in Minnesota has been a frequent target of CVE initiatives in the past, including some “community outreach programs” that were covertly used to conduct surveillance. Nonetheless, during the Obama administration there had been a diversity of opinion among Somali-American groups about the merit of working with the federal government. Under Trump, those mixed feelings are turning into outright opposition.
“We work with refugees, immigrants, Muslims, and this administration is against everything we stand for,” Mohamed Farah, executive director of Ka Joog, told The Intercept. “Half a million dollars is a lot of money — we could’ve done a lot of work with youth in our community — but ultimately it comes down to principles. We have relationships of trust and we can’t be associated with this administration.”
Trump’s reported modifications to government-led CVE programs would fulfill his campaign pledge to target “radical Islam” more forcefully. During his election campaign, Trump repeatedly promised that he would take a combative stance against Islamic extremism, in both rhetoric and action. But experts on counterextremism say that Trump’s heavy-handed approach risks antagonizing potential partners, while doing nothing to address the actual causes of extremist violence. It also shifts resources and attention away from the threat of right-wing extremism, despite a number of deadly attacks in North America over the past several years.
“The Trump administration has indicated that they’re going to reframe CVE purely around jihadism and in the process tear down all the relationships that the Obama administration built,” said Mubin Shaikh, a counterterrorism specialist and an academic researcher on radicalization. “But this whole notion of making CVE only about Islamic extremism when you have white supremacists shooting up mosques, Sikh temples, and churches is completely misguided.”
Nonprofit groups focused on right-wing extremism fear a loss of funding as the new administration shifts priorities. Shaikh says that he expects more CVE money to be redirected to Muslim American groups in the future, but only those that align ideologically with the Trump administration’s views on Islamic extremism. Such groups are unlikely to be representative of their communities, and may even encounter a backlash for cooperating with a widely loathed administration.
“The Trump administration is going to give CVE money to people they support, but these people are unlikely to have any connections with communities or individuals who are actually at risk of extremism,” Shaikh says. “If you really want to counter Islamic extremism, you’re not going to accomplish that by trashing Muslims and insulting them.”
Many academic experts on counterextremism have begun making the same point in recent years. A 2016 study by the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security at Duke University cited past failures in approaches to CVE that alienated communities by treating them as targets for surveillance and counterterrorism operations. The study’s authors called on the federal government to abandon this security-centric approach and work to build genuine partnerships with Muslim American communities. As a prerequisite to this, the study also said that government agencies must “redouble efforts to prevent discriminatory treatment, profiling, and harassment of law-abiding citizens at airports and immigration checkpoints.”
Instead of following this guidance and fighting discrimination against Muslims, the Trump administration has been working to institutionalize it. Executive orders targeting immigration from Muslim-majority countries and a pending bill to designate the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist group — a measure that many fear is intended to provide cover for a witch hunt against Muslim American organizations — are just a few examples of this inflammatory approach. Experts say that hostile rhetoric and discriminatory policies are likely to backfire, even if they satisfy Trump’s political goals in the short term.
“The people that you’re dealing with in implementing these programs want to be perceived as partners, and they want to build trust with governmental organizations,” said David Schanzer, director of the Triangle Center and co-author of its 2016 study on counterextremism. “But it’s not possible to develop relationships of trust between the federal government and Muslim Americans when you’re going to overtly discriminate against them.”
Schanzer cites the recent example of Trump’s executive order banning immigration from seven Muslim-majority countries as an example of institutionalized discrimination that will likely stop Muslim Americans from cooperating with government-led programs. As the administration ramps up its hostility, relationships that were already troubled are likely to deteriorate further.
“The rhetoric and actions that have come out of this administration have shown that they view essentially all Muslims as potential terrorists,” he adds. “I see much of the progress made in recent years being lost in the environment that we’re now entering.”
Top photo: Women in Minneapolis listen to the executive director of the Minnesota chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, Jaylani Hussein, speak about the Somali community’s concerns about a government-initiated countering violent extremism program in 2015.
Once again bedazzled by the bright shiny objects, the faithful supporters of the Dear Leader, Mr. AhmadiTrump, would rather point to any shiny object than deal with realities – it is the left, the Jews, the Muslims, the Mexicans, …
They point to everything but the corrupt misogynist dictator that has entitled himself, by decree, to be subject to no rule of law! The followers of the Dear Leader adore him because he so unabashedly belittles them for being so gullible.
How does that even work? The government sends a half million dollars to the Somali community…? What, do they have a PO Box or something? to counter violent extremism. The Somali community has a checking account and deposits the check from Homeland Security. Once the funds are available they, what, buy placards that say “Don’t Be Violently Extreme”?
I mean, they are taking money from the taxpayers and sending it to Somali immigrants hoping to purchase the absence of terrorism by other Somalis? I mean, that’s stupid even by the standards of the Left.
Unless…ah…clever. We must be hoping to so embarrass the Somalis for taking advantage of such complete idiots they will go back to Somalia chastened and ready to do some serious self-examination. Once they are all gone, Viola, no more home-grown Somali terrorism threat.
Mona loves to publicize Brother Nathanael, so why don’t we help her out:
https://www.youtube.com/brothernathanael
Oh no, that’s you. Or it was, before you got banned here 3-4 times for crapflooding all that shit. You going for a fifth?
Everybody remembers the two months you were gifted a vacation from TI and had to pass notes through Kitt, because you regularly monopolize its threads.
You probably don’t have the same influence now that you enjoyed here previously.
That guy seems to think Trump is yet another tool for Israel:
Brother Nathaneal – Trump Takes A Dip In The Jewish Swamp
He may have a point, somewhere within his prejudice. But only because there are no politicians who aren’t tools for Israel; it seems to be a must.
It is. Several pro-Trump antisemitic commenters here, before the general election, were oh-so-certain their man was gonna end America’s rancid complicity in Israel’s crimes. I and others told them they were delusional, as proved to be the case.
But the antisemites still love him.
Becasue for those types it has never been about the crimes of Zionism. It’s strictly hating Jews as Jews.
I can’t follow how some of them support Zionism and hate Jews. At least that Nathaneal chap is consistent in his prejudice! Perhaps the white supremacists who love Israel have an apocalyptic agenda in mind or something. On the other hand I’m not so sure all anti-Semites still love Trump – some of the comments on the video I linked to (which I noticed when Communete mentioned the guy again) indicate some Trump supporters at least are miffed at Trump for being so typically (for a politician) Zionist-submissive.
Oh, not all of them, but a lot of them love Israel for the Zionism. They understand it correctly as the same form as the blood and soul, ethno-nationalism of Hitler and their other icons. They seek to do for white Christians in America what Israel does for Jews.
For those sorts of antisemites, they’re perfectly pleased to have Israel be the “Jewish State,” and would love it if every American Jew were banished to it.
Appreciate the explanation. I think I get it, now.
There, I can tell my gf I learn things here! That might help. She’s under the impression I just scowl and furiously attack my phone keypad at inopportune moments.
In a stopped clock moment, I actually did learn something truthful and interesting from this Communete — this was back at the Guardian when Glenn wrote there. He was ranting about fluoridated water which back in the day was a common far-right obsession (the Commies were something, something via fluoride in the water.)
Apparently, there is some recent science suggesting certain levels of fluoride in the water actually can be harmful.
Communete seems often to speak much like Alex Jones – who from what I’ve seen also says sporadically spot-on things but mostly deals in macho sensationalism that maintains a fever-pitch delivery against perceived threats to U.S. nationalism, masculinity and Jesus.
Jones even overlooks Trump’s glaring support of Zionism just as Communete appears to – even though the overbearing influence of Israel on American government and foreign policy is not only undeniable (even outside glaringly anti-Semitic observations, as we’ve discussed), but consequently a distinct interference with those holding a supposedly outspoken ‘America First’ mentality.
Jones can occasionally be sincere and entertaining, however, while Communete is utterly humorless and seems to have a real grudge against something here.
CORRECTION massive generalizations based on arcane personal experiences that come from war-posting junk do not count as rational arguments
That never happened. I and several others got caught in the commercial spam filter, which the site’s tech staff eventually figured out. I’ve never been banned — you have been, repeatedly. Because you see, the writers here aren’t real big on notions about Jewish plots, the Illuminati, and all your other bizarro bullshit.
Nobody else, Mona. Just you. The evidence is back there for every reader to see.
That’s as true as that Satanic/Illuminati are controlling people’s minds.
And it sure did catch some spam, didn’t it.
CORRECTION secret knowledge of spam filter operation, who has and hasn’t been banned, and other arcane experiences that come from war-posting junk do not count as rational arguments
ROFL!!!! The queen of crapflooding was banned from TI? She who goes on endlessly about others engaging in crapflooding? There is a God! Fuckin hilarious!!!!!!!!
CORRECTION guilt by association with Brother Nathanael is not a rational argument
Martin Luther King, Jr.’s niece voted for Trump. But she’s a nobody.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/16/martin-luther-kings-niece-voted-for-trump/
Yup, all groups have a nut or two. She’s one. A tiny percentage of women fall madly in love with incarcerated serial rapist/murderers. Do you suppose it’s the result of that Satanic/Illuminati plot you’ve been known to go on and on about?
Readers only see you’re the one who goes on and on about it.
I can’t help it. You posted about it so much at one time that I became convinced, and in gratitude I want everyone else to know of your get service in spreading this important truth. Indeed, knowing of great insight caused me to immediately see that Scalia had been murdered to put a Jew on the High Court– the moment you wrote that, the truth became manifest.
Well now, I’d defer to you on that question. Surely Fritz Springmeier, Brother Nathanael or one of your other favorite scholars have addressed that particular thesis?
African Americans really yearn for communism, isn’t that right Mona?
What about his second cousins’ roommates, though?
Any thoughts on Ron Paul’s worry that Trump is just another Deep State puppet – that apart from Tillerson, Trump has failed to ‘drain the swamp’ as promised, and that the rumors of Elliott Abrams being given a role in the State dept reeks of neoconservatism?
Communists, every last one of them in that apartment.
If African-Americans are Communists, do they have songs crying out against the oppression of capitalism – that is, do red blacks sing the blues?
There’s a good reason many African-Americans were so drawn to the Communist Party in its heyday in the U.S. The Party accepted them as equals and railed against Jim Crow — at a time when neither major party would oppose it.
But most were never Communists, tho the accusation has been constant among the fringe right. That’s what they said and believed about MLK.
Makes sense. Very few actual out-and-out Communists existed (at least not persistently) in the USA , white or black, from what I’ve read. The far-right (and even some everyday Republicans) still confuses democratic socialism with Marxism, which I find ridiculous. In turn, many Democrats with equal closed-mindedness see no difference between neocons and libertarians. Dialog becomes impossible with all the tribalism.
Not per capita, but there were a significant number in the 30s-50s. When capitalism suffered such an egregious failure and resulted in the Great Depression, many intellectuals and political activists did head for the CPUSA. When Khrushchev announced (in the mid 50s) that Stalin had really committed the great crimes so many claimed, the Party pretty much fell apart.
We’re taught in University that the McCarthy scare was unwarranted, and most of the little I’ve read as supplementary seems to place the idea that Communism was actually popular in the category of “hysterical,” – that aside from artists and very few intellectuals actual Marxism was inconsequential culturally. I have no reason to doubt what you’re saying, but it isn’t the official record of the establishment – I know little about the 30s except for speedily covering the Great Depression, and most of the 40s material was obviously focused around war, so the whole era of which you’re speaking is kind of mooshed together in my mind (it doesn’t help that everything before the 60s appears in my mind’s eye in black-and-white!), and largely the notion of America entering a boon time (support a family with one store-clerk job sort of thing) in the 50s where the only problem was racism is what I’ve been indoctrinated with. Admittedly political history hasn’t been my major at any point, although more contemporary poli-sci has been somewhat central. If you could recommend a book or two, I’ll try to get them from the library, as I find what you’re saying fascinating.
CORRECTION communists “per capita” is statistically meaningless
Those rumors reek of worse than that.
Ron Paul: Hillary Clinton Could’ve Run As A Republican!
Jimmy Dore
Also consider Debbie Lusignan’s (Sane Progressive) view, which argues that the Democrats are a lost cause, and that the so-called redemption of the Party with “Justice Democrats” is not going to happen.
Democratic Party Co-Opts Efforts To Retake It: Word to Wise to Stop History Repeating
As for Muslims, the Democrats seem to be simply using the so-called ‘Muslim ban’ as a cheap way to distinguish themselves from Trump without actually changing from Obama’s also-repulsive approach to immigration and interventionism-consequences.
Nobody tell my girlfriend I was here!
I promise not to tell. If you give me her email address, I’ll even tell her we haven’t seen you.
But I’m glad you’re here.
I hope she doesn’t check! Thanks for the nice words, which I don’t deserve.
It’s not unusual for strongly opinionated people who are passionate in their advocacy to get carried away from time to time. Show your girlfriend this.
Ha! Well, she’s right that I don’t really have time to waste (I am horrifically busy) “fixing the world” (!) by commenting here, so I’ll try to at least try to minimize it. I just can’t seem to stay silent, though. I do hope she can understand, as I’m madly in love and don’t want to mess up. At least we have the same views, politically.
Shout-out to Doc Hollywood! Thanks for what you said the other day!
I meant it. I’m glad you’re still here.
Yeah, you deserve nice words. Especially from me.
Just imagine how deep I would be in the Outer Darkness if I were tossed every time I showed up in my grumpy, hard-ass jerk costume.
Thank you, all my best vibes sent your way!
Plus, sometime TI thread commentator mike says Bannon was reported to have claimed to be a Leninist. So I’m sure Jeff Sessions is too.
Don’t worry–the New York Times puts Hillary’s chances of winning at 97%.
Sessions just confirmed to head the Justice Dept. That must really suck for the progressive left.
It sucks for the country, but for no one more so than African-Americans.
African Americans get to be employed again.
Sessions is so racist he couldn’t get appointed to the federal bench in the Reagan era. Virtually all organizations devoted to civil rights, deeply opposed Sessions. That includes 99% of African-Americans political activists.
Leftists say all non-progressives are racists. It kind of lost its punch.
I’m going to listen to 99% of African-American political activists before I listen to you. You believe: 1. That Antonin Scalia was murdered to get a Jew placed on the Supreme Court in his place, 2. That Hitler was a leftist, and 3. That a maniac who spent 10 years in prison for armed bank robbery writes compelling books “exposing” the Satanic/Illuminati conspiracy. No one with the least familiarity with your output here finds you or your judgments remotely credible.
Gee, I missed #1.
There’s a lot of competition for Most Ridiculous around here, but the Scalia Murder Theory ought to keep our friend in the running.
I’m sure the conspiranoids are thanking the gods that Gorsuch isn’t a Jew.
Yup, when he isn’t yapping abut Hitler’s purported far left enthusiasms, it’s that “they” offed Scalia so Obama could replace him with a Jew.
Did you see this? Karl’s not even keeping the mask on any longer — he’s offering strong support to our new proudly racist, white supremacist commenter, Mr. Nelsen.
Words of a proven liar; Letters to oneself
Excerpt:
Dear Mona,
Karl’s not even keeping the mask on any longer… *Wink, snort, snort, harangue*… And our adoring drooling fans are lapping up our canned dialogue like shit-eating dogs
Yours truly,
ME (aka Doug Salzmann, Hypatia, AtheistInChief…)
P.s I love YOU sooooo much. You are the best and the brightest, and the…
If you Facebook a general assembly maybe you can turn this around.
What, Zuckerberg has the key to ending the Satanic/Illuminati plot? Or do you mean the Jewish plot to turn America gay and all that other wack-a-doodle horseshit your beloved Brother Nathanael rants about? Facebook can do something about those horrors?
“President Barack Obama did his best”
Yes, 0Bama tried to make America a third world country.
When your current vetting protocol is not working, the Govt should stop all immigration, until they get a better handle on vetting.
The vetting protocol was working. And even if it had not been, Trump’s Muslim ban bears no rational relationship to preventing Islamic terror in America.
trump made some prejudiced statements against muslims during the campaign
and he has talked about stopping muslims now that he has been elected
however, the ban itself is on various countries of citizenship, not personal religious belief .. the “nuanced thinkers” of the left are somewhat successfully blurring the distinction between the president’s personal prejudices and actual policy positions that may stand up in court
as trump derangement syndrome progresses, expect all policy issues (some of which will make sense) to be folded into trump’s biased personal style by journalists on the left .. this is their strategy going forward
CORRECTION “policy positions”, not “policy issues”
U.S. District Judge James Robart:
There are exemptions, e.g., Jews with Israeli visas, and members of minority religions, such as Christians. Effectively making it a Muslim ban on Muslims from these Muslim-majority countries.
you’re moving the goalposts … ihe issue is that the ban is on citizens of countries, not muslims per se (with exceptions for some foreign visa holders)
who has already been arrested is beside the point … this is prior restraint used in the international arena
oh no, i’m not suggesting legal action against citizens of these countries … just consider my hypothetical: can the US prevent their entry based on country of origin?
mary steyr-
“trump’s biased personal style”
I bet he could appease everyone if he would just stop being white and male. Or maybe if he circumcised himself again, on live Twitter. I mean, if your gonna be a Nazi, a white supremacist, or whatever, you have to pass the white-other-meat zionist muster first! It worked for Keith Ellison (Muslim Lite, pre-vetted by the ADL affiliated in his state).
I mean, who has done more for the brown folk? Clearly not white men.
It was Democrats, who are clearly shorn of their whiteness. Look how they saved America from electing another *eeeew* white man (Bernie)-and how they lifted the veils of oppression in the ME ( no one beats white feminists and especially the war-bonobos amongst them getting to a peek under the skirts of ‘other’ women).
And bomb baby bomb! Who needs peace when you’re married to the war machine?? And ‘end FGM!’ (clipping more foreskins now; a few here in Africa, a few there in the ME….mmmm! but the key question is: is calamari kosher??)
Yeah- I am pretty sure THOSE PEOPLE were all Hillary voters, real unbiased liberators in the spirit of Frederick Douglass.
I mean- Barak Obama- that Obama, wuttaguy!- he was able to keep his racism and bias in check because he had all those white women to speak for him lke his mommy did- to speak about anything BUT the horrors their guiltless ancestors in herstory once perpetrated on men like Emmet Till, with their “little white lies” and so on. RAPE RAPE RAPE! It’s everywhere!!!! (then, Nikki Craft style gang stalking from the hidden networks of ‘human rights’ advocacy groups).
None beats these white women at diversity, except maybe Steppin Fetchit. They put the blackface on and clown it up like nobodies biznezz.
And look! Thank hashem/Yahweh/Jesus/or-any-other-desert-god that white-lite, Elizabeth Warren takes a stand for ‘her people,’ the native Americans. Colored folk would be lost without white-ish women to clown their issues for them.
http://www.alternet.org/environment/elizabeth-warren-comes-down-hard-against-global-warming-separates-herself-hillary
are you saying that you would object to a ban or restriction on travel and/or immigration of muslims?
would you object to a religious test that would allow one or another religious group admittance while rejecting another?
if the countries listed in the ban have never been the source or home of terrorists attacking the US, what would be the purpose of this particular list, and why should it exclude those countries that terrorists attacking the US have come from? how does this in any way address domestic security concerns?
the goal may be to prevent a sizable community of anti-western muslims living here, like they have in france and other parts of europe
so the issue is not current terror attacks … the issue is accepting immigrants from countries we’ve waged war against, and what implications that might have in the future
but maybe its all fine and we should just take everybody as defined by the Obama/Clinton state department agenda … they are the smart people we should all follow
so you would not object to a ban or restriction on travel and/or immigration of muslims?
you would be ok with a religious test as an integral part of our immigration policy?
“a measure that many fear is intended to provide cover for a witch hunt against Muslim American organizations”
Well call these guys then- they seem to know something about this situation- and a few more:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/06/12/adl-spies/
All this talk about radical Muslims almost makes me forget about how successful other religious fanatics and terruris’s have been assimilating into American traditions of demagoguery, hate and poisonous deception.
If only those wacky terruriss’s could learn how to wage terrorism correctly: like the Anti Defamation League does with defamation, spying on enemies real and imagined; and covertly placing ritual blood libel into the sands of every discourse at every college in America, and into every online discourse as well.
These tools work better than any IED, according to Abe Foxman’s ghost.
The Miami Herald has published Khalid Sheik Mohammad’s letter from last year to President Obama. Unsurprisingly, the Sheik’s core geo-political grievances have nothing to do with either “hating our freedoms” or some irrational religious mandate.
they never say it out loud … its a subtexual coding within the intra-cultural dialog born of islamic frustration after seeing all our hot american bootie
once wolverine and the justice league are fully established throughout the muslim world, expect a new level of friendship and understanding between our two cultures
CORRECTION wolverine is one of the x-men, and not technically a member of the justice league
this error will be corrected going forward
however, wolverine’s fierce loyalty and razor-sharp claws make him a powerful ally nonetheless
KSM is surprisingly well informed about US politics and history.
So was OBL. The caricature of jihadists as a bunch of wild-eyed religious zealots holed up in caves — barely literate in their local dialect much less English — is the total opposite of reality. ISIS tends to fit the stereo type a bit better, but even there they have a game plan extensively reliant on understating the West and manipulating it’s leaders. Trump is an enormous gift to them.
once this preliminary political stuff is out of the way, trump will super-heat the economy and give average americans two chickens in every pot
ISIS will go the way of the USSR , trying to entice more and more pilgrims with the 19 virgins etc
CORRECTION “stereotype”
Yes, but by your own admission (see Below):
Syrian based salafist-jihadists pose an imminent danger to the United States if they are able to elude detection by existing immigration vetting protocols while attempting to enter the U.S..
Not just my admission, my insistence. KSM and other jihadis rely on people like you, and the man you supported for president in the last election — Trump — to create their recruitment tools.
You comply so well, irrationally ranting about Syrians (KSM is a Pakistani, possibly born in Kuwait), and supporting a Muslim ban on those from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia and Yemen. The 9/11 hijackers were Saudis.
Trump’s Muslim ban you defend was rejected by U.S. District Judge James Robart because:
There’s no getting around that. And your non sequiturs certainly do not do so.
Let me get this straight. You are now “insisting” that Syrian based salafist-jihadists pose an imminent danger to the United States if they are able to elude detection by existing immigration vetting protocols while attempting to enter the U.S.?
My insistence is that:
And my insistence is that Judge Robart is correct here:
It’s a Muslim ban on countries with no rational relationship to the purported goal of preventing terrorists from entering the U.S. The 9/11 perps were Saudis — we all know why Saudi Arabia is not included on the list. We also know why in the seven chosen, Muslim majority countries, exemptions include, e.g., Jews with Israeli visas and members of minority religions, such as Christians.
Do the Syrian based salafist-jihadists pose an imminent danger to the United States if they are able to elude detection by existing immigration vetting protocols while attempting to enter the U.S.?
Non sequitur. Trump’s Muslim ban bears no relationship to your inquiry.
Liar!
Uh-huh. Ok. [shrug]
CORRECTION not a Muslim ban, a ban on Iraqi, Syrian, Iranian, Sudanese, Libyan, Somali and Yemenese nationals
As I stated just above, exemptions include, e.g., Jews with Israeli visas and members of minority religions, such as Christians.
CORRECTION what you just stated above was not a source for your claim on exemptions, it was a “moving the goal posts” argument about prior terrorist acts
What a load of crap.
CVE programs were developed by the Obama administration
because Obama the smooth talking huckster was highly effective
at selling toxic crap. Basically, Obama set up this program,
like pretty much everything else he did, so that it could be the basis
of greater injustices in the future.
The purpose has never been the elimination of terror.
The growth of terror is a great moneymaker for the greedy
predators who run the fake government.
Also,
It is noteworthy that the people who are wary of Trump also
think that there is the possibility of Trump’s corruption created
more terrorists in their communities. Isn’t that concern also
saying that they do not trust their own communities?
Trump is obnoxious, but so was Obama.
OMG!!! If it has been “REPORTED” it must be so. But wait, who exactly reported this refocus of CVE programs?:
Err… “five UNNAMED people”? Certainly the Intercept would not report as fact that which five unnamed sources allegedly claimed!
Say What? Another UNNAMED source claims that the TRUMP administration first proposed the idea of changing the name and focus of CVE back in December? I know that Murtaza Hussain has to much journalistic integrity to use the unsubstantiated claims of anonymous, unnamed sources as a segue into speciously arguing that “Trump’s executive order banning immigration from seven Muslim-majority countries as an example of institutionalized discrimination that will likely stop Muslim Americans from cooperating with government-led programs.” There must be at least one current, verifiable source who can definitively attest to the fact that the Trump administration wants to revamp and rename a U.S. government program designed to counter all violent ideologies so that it focuses solely on Islamist extremism. Or at least some substantive change in policy that demonstrably signals potentially discriminatory revisions of CVE programs:
The unsubstantiated rhetoric that has come from Intercept writers in the last several weeks has shown that they view essentially all things TRUMP as being discriminatory against Muslims. But hey, there is a plus side to such rhetoric… it invariably leads to a lack of opposition from progressives to government proposals that will radically broaden the focus of potentially repressive policies like CVE programs that are retooled with the intention of targeting any domestic [Wink: “terrorist”] group whose language only has the potential of inciting or producing imminent lawless action. Now this is the form of inclusiveness that one can embrace!! Well done Murtaza, Trump would be proud!!!
Terrorists are incentivised to do their thing to leave the misery on the planet and get to the vestal virgins laying in wait. This entire kill or be killed, better dead than red, declare and drone tech, and other forms of madness are scaring the aliens. Perhaps more of this will be sufficient to actually prevent an alien invasion. Not that the aliens are afraid of being killed in the violence, but perhaps the aliens figure we can exterminate ourselves better than they can.
Too bad that terrorists don’t exist, apart of course from the US government/military and its supporters.
If there were any real “terrorists” out there they would be making americans pay for their crimes and americans would be blown up to bits every day, exactly like they deserve.
There is of course no case to be made for Islam Extremism, except for maybe this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_linked_to_ISIL
Why on earth would somebody link this terrorism to Islam beyond the fact that the perpetrators make it perfectly clear that this is their motivation? Let’s just multiply that by zero and add in Islam is peaceful. Now lets have a useful debate?
Balance is needed here. Outrage at examination of Muslims without inserting a better answer is just partisan sniping. There is a problem, it is happening all over the world. It has resulted in both the US and Europe wanting to ban Muslim immigration.
A better question isn’t what are we doing about it, but what are they doing about it? This isn’t going to be fixed from the outside. Everyone knows the mass majority of Muslims detest ISIS. But if the problem can’t be solved internally by Muslims then it isn’t very surprising that nations will start using policy bludgeons to attempt to solve it themselves.
If you don’t have a better answer then your words are useless. A kinder gentler hand was just tried for 8 years and Islam extremism is worse.
I completely disagree. Obama was in no way “a kinder gentler” hand. Bush started 2 wars. Obama started 7 and normalized extra-legal assassinations of Muslims. Indeed, the rollback of American/NATO/Israeli imperialism hasn’t been attempted as an experiment to be able to say “it didn’t work.”
Terrorism never exists in a vacuum.
Truth!
Not only that, but it would not be possible for “the problem to be solved internally by Muslims.” The fuel for jihadists, including ISIS, is Western crimes and depredations on many parts of the Muslim world. Indeed, ISIS was created in the violence and carnage the U.S. and allies afflicted on Iraq.
1990s Iraq was also a key grievance leading to 9/11. I always believed that was a key piece of the puzzle, and KSM’s letter to Obama basically confirms it.
“… normalized extra-legal assassinations of Muslims.”
so true, but the obama and hillary people cant hear it
I see. So you think that Catholics the world over should have stopped the IRA bombing in Northern Ireland and England. Please do not tell me that it was different then; that was territorial or something, not religious. You might want to think about what this current situation is really about, not about what the extremists on both sides want you to believe.
In any case, the lack of a “better” answer is no reason to violate the constitution and human decency, especially since there is no huge threat as you have been trained to think.
have you forgotten how ISIL began? where they began?
Extreme ideology is dangerous to everyone. Political extremists, religious extremists, economic extremists, etc. They are all dangerous for their own reasons.
Americans never seem to care or talk about the Christian extremist movements, like the Pro-life movement. Or the Jewish zionist movements that have great support from the US. Nope, gotta focus on Muslims because of a little promise of heaven if they die for their cause. That and most Muslims are brown, so it’s easy for white Americans to discriminate and validate their prejudice. Never mind Christians use absolution and paradise after death in their doctrines to motivate their insane people. Or Jews using old texts and promises of paradise to justify their conquests. The issue that Islam is somehow inherently more violent than other Abrahamic religions is specious at best.
The issue is demographic. Nobody cares about radical Christians or Jews because there are so many moderate Christians and Jews living in the US. If there were large populations of moderate Muslims living in the US this whole issue would be moot.
From any angle, this all seems a bit strange. The government has programs that tell, teach, instruct a group of people that violence against other people is wrong? From one angle these programs assume that Muslims are so bereft of morality that they must go through some moral re-education program? I suppose this goes along with right wing views that Islam is inherently a violent ideology. But then, if liberals support these programs, aren’t they admitting the moral adolescence of Muslims that they must be “matured” into believing that violence is wrong?
I would much rather see a program called “We Will Fuck You Back” (WWFYB). A program that goes into Christian communities and says “if you bomb or hurt abortion providers, we will fuck you back”. Or go to Muslim communities and say “if you harm gay people, we will fuck you back”.
Hmmm… so then you don’t object to the government using violently repressive measures to advance an ideology as long as it closely mirrors your own? Got it!
Yup. I do indeed support a government program to suppress anybody from using violence against people based on religious beliefs. I will even go radical and extend it to any violence against people except in the cases of self defense.
Hypothetically speaking: If there is any violent reaction from religious communities to the Trump administration forcibly removing all American Muslims from their homes and indefinitely detaining them in the name of national security, will cheerlead the government’s effort to violent quell such dissent?
Sorry:
Hypothetically speaking: If there is any violent reaction from religious communities to the Trump administration forcibly removing all American Muslims from their homes and indefinitely detaining them in the name of national security, will YOU cheerlead the government’s effort to violent quell such dissent?
According to Tom Friedman, the program you propose was already tried. It was the Iraq war. He called it “suck on this.” I see it as geopolitical mafia behavior.
Jihadists are, in fact, fucking us back. Khalid Sheik Mohammad identifies(largely accurately) myriad violent crimes the United States either directly commits, or in which it is complicit, against Muslims and others all over the world. He’s absolutely saying they are “fucking us back.”
Aha, so then you admit that Syrian based salafist-jihadists pose an imminent danger to the United States if they are able to elude detection by existing immigration vetting protocols while attempting to enter the U.S.?
Actually, the Muslim ban is a great gift to ISIS.
Nice try Mona. Once again, I have caught you talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Um, no. Frankly, your prior comment was a non sequitur that made no sense. But I’d wanted to stick the link to ISIS’ reception to the Muslim ban somewhere, so used your inscrutable comment to do it. [shrug]
Aka ‘blowback’. The late Chalmers Johnson details it exquisitely in ‘Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire’. Highly recommended reading.
http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=191
This is a fantastic article. Thank you.
At least my ex-friends have exposed themselves as the bigots they are. They continue to rally behind Trump’s fascist agenda all the while declaring they are not racist and bigots. Someone just light the fuse and let’s get this on.
The language used to describe this is so benign and sterile. CVE? Countering Violent Extremism? That’s a word made up by lawyers and politicians to make their policy of “anything we don’t like we will counter with violence” seem normal and acceptable. Kinda like how PTSD is just a normal part of a soldier’s job now. No matter their lives are wrecked because at least they have a label and are in a database somewhere.
Even more interesting, how come these policies don’t apply to white kids who shoot up schools and movie theaters? Why doesn’t it apply to the Bundy clan’s insurrection movement? Or violent police officers who abuse their position to terrorize people? Interesting stuff.
dumping money on people to get buy-in is certainly an approach one could take
it’s an approach i wish someone would take with me
but in the case of the somalis, they probably think there are too many strings attached … like having to rat out friends for essentially pizza money, and then risk getting deported afterwards
still, our friends in Homeland Security will probably figure out some way to make it all work … maybe by using all the tools in the toolbox, they can overcome blocking issues and mobilize community support through local partnering and action group development
It’s not the Muslims who are the terrorists here. It’s those who are terrorizing the Muslims, Trump being no. 1 on that list. Obama’s historically right there near the top too.
In Europe only 20% of the 10.000 interviewed people would be against such a ban, according to the recent study by Chatham house.
i don’t think they get a vote here. they certainly don’t get to overhaul the US Constitution.
Fortunately (or, perhaps, unfortunately for bigots), in the US, it would be unconstitutional to discriminate against immigrants based upon religion and illegal to discriminate based upon national origin (among other things).
And it simply does not matter, as a question of law, how popular discrimination might be.
Hey Doug was Jesse Jackson on the balcony when MLK bled to death as he claimed.”
Did Jesse Jackson hold MLK in his arms and listen to his dying words as he claimed?
Is it true that you intentionally attempted to submarine off-guardian.org as your partners claim?
In Europe only 20% of the 10.000 interviewed people would be against such a ban, according to the recent study by Chatham house.
A comprehensive study by by the Chicago Project on Security and Threats (CPOST) at the University of Chicago and the Australian Strategic Policy Institute’s Counter-Terrorism Policy Center of individuals indicted for ISIS-related acts in America found that the vast majority of the cases from March 2014–August 2016 were perpetrated by US citizens.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ban-refugees-heres-why-trump-should-focus-more-on-whats-happening-at-home-2017-02-07?link=sfmw_tw
In the last five years, according to Europol, the European Union’s law-enforcement agency, less than 2% of all terrorist attacks in Europe were religiously motivated.
So, who was responsible for the vast majority of the terrorist attacks?
How about in America?
https://thinkprogress.org/less-than-2-percent-of-terrorist-attacks-in-the-e-u-are-religiously-motivated-cec7d8ebedf6
Here in the US one in every five reproductive health centers has experienced violence perpetrated by Christian terrorists.
https://thinkprogress.org/why-abortion-clinics-need-buffer-zones-8d5e9c59ddaf
You are factually correct. Religious terrorism, particularly Islamist terrorism in Western nations are extremely low. Will you concede that the argument that US policies is increasing Islamist terrorism is weak since as you correctly mentioned, Islamist terrorism has been extremely low on US soil?
The argument for a ban is much larger than terrorism only. If you include crimes like rape, theft and simply the feeling that Muslim refugees and immigrants do not always respect the separation of state and religion, you can understand the rationale behind the result of this Chatham House study. Another factor for this insecurity feeling is the completely disorganised immigration policy at Europe’s borders and even within Europe. Brussels trying to impose quotas on unwilling member states is one of the worst things you can do…..but that is exactly what bureaucratic Brussels does. Furthermore trying to make deals with autocratic regimes to hold on to refugees and avoid them coming to Europe is another way of loosing your credibility. European citizens , just like US citizens, are not against immigration in general but all the more against the way it is dis-organised now.
Anyone not a little nervous about Trump is not on their game. This ham handed/ half-cocked “ban” is under legal challenge and will boil down to some Constitutional increased vetting. Thanks to all both sides that got this mess a day in court. We have lots of sticks what are the carrots for freedom and reasonable saftey for all?
Capitalist government crusades against “extremism” are sinister. If Trump’s vile Islamophobic bigotry is ruining them, that’s cause for celebration. The bigotry isn’t cause for celebration, of course, but the fact that it is derailing a few witch hunts certainly is.