Donald Trump, for reasons I’ve repeatedly pointed out, is an extremist, despicable, and dangerous candidate, and his almost-certain humiliating defeat is less than a month away. So I realize there is little appetite in certain circles for critiques of any of the tawdry and sometimes fraudulent journalistic claims and tactics being deployed to further that goal. In the face of an abusive, misogynistic, bigoted, scary, lawless authoritarian, what’s a little journalistic fraud or constant fearmongering about subversive Kremlin agents between friends if it helps to stop him?
But come January, Democrats will continue to be the dominant political faction in the U.S. — more so than ever — and the tactics they are now embracing will endure past the election, making them worthy of scrutiny. Those tactics now most prominently include dismissing away any facts or documents that reflect negatively on their leaders as fake, and strongly insinuating that anyone who questions or opposes those leaders is a stooge or agent of the Kremlin, tasked with a subversive and dangerously un-American mission on behalf of hostile actors in Moscow.
To see how extreme and damaging this behavior has become, let’s just quickly examine two utterly false claims that Democrats over the past four days — led by party-loyal journalists — have disseminated and induced thousands of people, if not more, to believe. On Friday, WikiLeaks published its first installment of emails obtained from the account of Clinton campaign chair John Podesta. Despite WikiLeaks’ perfect, long-standing record of only publishing authentic documents, MSNBC’s favorite ex-intelligence official, Malcolm Nance, within hours of the archive’s release, posted a tweet claiming — with zero evidence and without citation to a single document in the WikiLeaks archive — that it was compromised with fakes:
Official Warning: #PodestaEmails are already proving to be riddled with obvious forgeries & #blackpropaganda not even professionally done. https://t.co/UuJZrurHAA
— Malcolm Nance (@MalcolmNance) October 7, 2016
As you can see, more than 4,000 people have re-tweeted this “Official Warning.” That includes not only random Clinton fans but also high-profile Clinton-supporting journalists, who by spreading it around gave this claim their stamp of approval, intentionally leading huge numbers of people to assume the WikiLeaks archive must be full of fakes, and its contents should therefore simply be ignored. Clinton’s campaign officials spent the day fueling these insinuations, strongly implying that the documents were unreliable and should thus be ignored. Poof: Just like that, unpleasant facts about Hillary Clinton disappeared, like a fairy protecting frightened children by waving her magic wand and sprinkling her dust over a demon, causing it to scatter away.
Except the only fraud here was Nance’s claim, not any of the documents published by WikiLeaks. Those were all real. Indeed, at Sunday night’s debate, when asked directly about the excerpts of her Wall Street speeches found in the release, Clinton herself confirmed their authenticity. And news outlets such as the New York Times and AP reported — and continue to report — on their contents without any caveat that they may be frauds. No real print journalists or actual newsrooms (as opposed to campaign operatives masquerading as journalists) fell for this scam, so this tactic did not prevent reporting from being done.
But it did signal to Clinton’s most devoted followers to simply ignore the contents of the release. Anyone writing articles about what these documents revealed was instantly barraged with claims from Democrats that they were fakes, by people often pointing to “articles” like this one.
That article was shared almost 22,000 times on Facebook alone. In Nance’s defense, it is true that some unknown, random person posted a doctored email on the internet and claimed it was real, but that did not come from the WikiLeaks archive and has nothing to do with assessing the reliability of the archive (any more than fake NYT stories on the internet impugn the reliability of articles in that paper). Not one person has identified even a single email or document released by WikiLeaks of questionable authenticity — that includes all of the Clinton officials whose names are listed as their authors and recipients — yet these journalists and “experts” deliberately convinced who knows how many people to believe a fairy tale: that WikiLeaks’ archive is pervaded with forgeries.
More insidious and subtle, but even worse, was what Newsweek and its Clinton-adoring writer Kurt Eichenwald did last night. What happened — in reality, in the world of facts — was extremely trivial. One of the emails in the second installment of the WikiLeaks/Podesta archive — posted yesterday — was from Sidney Blumenthal to Podesta. The sole purpose of Blumenthal’s email was to show Podesta one of Eichenwald’s endless series of Clinton-exonerating articles, this one about Benghazi. So in the body of the email to Podesta, Blumenthal simply pasted the link and the full contents of the article. Although the purpose of Eichenwald’s article (like everything he says and does) was to defend Clinton, one paragraph in the middle acknowledged that one minor criticism of Clinton on Benghazi was possibly rational.
Once WikiLeaks announced that this second email batch was online, many news organizations (including The Intercept, along with the NYT and AP) began combing through them to find relevant information and then published articles about them. One such story was published by Sputnik, the Russian government’s international outlet similar to RT, which highlighted that Blumenthal email. But the Sputnik story inaccurately attributed the text of the Newsweek article to Blumenthal, thus suggesting that one of Clinton’s closest advisers had expressed criticism of her on Benghazi. Sputnik quickly removed the article once Eichenwald pointed out that the words were his, not Blumenthal’s. Then, in his campaign speech last night, Trump made reference to the Sputnik article (hours after it was published and spread on social media), claiming (obviously inaccurately) that even Blumenthal had criticized Clinton on Benghazi.
That’s all that happened. There is zero suggestion in the article, let alone evidence, that any WikiLeaks email was doctored: It wasn’t. It was just Sputnik misreporting the email. Once Sputnik realized that its article misattributed the text to Blumenthal, it took it down. It’s not hard to imagine how a rushed, careless Sputnik staffer could glance at that email and fail to realize that Blumenthal was forwarding Eichenwald’s article rather than writing it himself. And while nobody knows how this erroneous Sputnik story made its way to Trump for him to reference in his speech, it’s very easy to imagine how a Trump staffer on a shoddy, inept campaign — which has previously cited InfoWars and white supremacist sites, among others — would have stumbled into a widely shared Sputnik story that had been published hours earlier on the internet and then passed it along to Trump for him to highlight, without realizing the reasons to be skeptical.
In any event, based on the available evidence, this is a small embarrassment for Trump: He cited an erroneous story from a non-credible Russian outlet, so it’s worth noting. But that’s not what happened. Eichenwald, with increasing levels of hysteria, manically posted no fewer than three dozen tweets last night about his story, each time escalating his claims of what it proved. By the time he was done, he had misled large numbers of people into believing that he found proof that: 1) the documents in the WikiLeaks archive were altered; 2) Russia put forgeries into the WikiLeaks archive; 3) Sputnik knew about the WikiLeaks archive ahead of time, before it was posted online; 4) WikiLeaks coordinated the release of the documents with the Russian government; and 5) the Russian government and the Trump campaign coordinated to falsely attribute Eichenwald’s words to Blumenthal.
In fact, Eichenwald literally has zero evidence for any of that. The point is not that his evidence for these propositions is inconclusive or unpersuasive; the point is that there is zero evidence for any of it. It’s all just conspiracy theorizing and speculation that he invented. Worse, the article, while hinting at these claims and encouraging readers to believe them, does not even expressly claim any of those things. Instead, Eichenwald’s increasingly unhinged tweets repeatedly inflated his insignificant story from what it was — a misattribution of an email by Sputnik that Trump repeated — into a five-alarm warning that an insidious Russian plot to subvert U.S. elections had been proven, with Trump and fake WikiLeaks documents at the center.
By itself, this is not so notable: All journalists are tempted to hype their stories. But Eichenwald went way, way beyond that, including — as demonstrated below — demonstrable lies. But what makes it so significant is how many reasoned, perfectly smart journalists — just as they did with Nance’s “Official Warning” — started falling prey to the dual hysteria of Twitter group dynamics and election blinders, to the point where CNN featured Eichenwald this morning to highlight his major scoop linking Putin, Trump, and WikiLeaks in the plot to feed Americans heaps of Russian disinformation.
Just watch how this warped narrative played out in a very short period of time, with nobody wanting to get in the way of the speeding train for fear of being castigated as a Trump supporter or Putin stooge (accusations that are — yet again — inevitably on their way as a result of this article):
Folks: Wikileaks is compromised. Russia knew exactly where to look to take my words & put them in HRC friend's mouth https://t.co/1d5qvU01Yi
— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) October 10, 2016
Russia govnt falsified an email. Then Trump recited the falsified email at a rally. Only those two knew it. How? https://t.co/1d5qvU01Yi
— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) October 11, 2016
I like my Russian propaganda the old-fashioned way – uttered by Moscow, not by the GOP nominee for President https://t.co/1d5qvU01Yi
— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) October 11, 2016
Disinformation from Russian govnt ONLY appeared on govnt controled news. Trump recited as fact. Where did he get it? https://t.co/1d5qvU01Yi
— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) October 11, 2016
Russian govnt: Ur screw up with my piece proves ur engaged in cyberwar to upend US election. America will fight back https://t.co/1d5qvU01Yi
— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) October 11, 2016
There is no better proof that @wikileaks is part of a Russian operation than Putin putting my words in others mouth. https://t.co/1d5qvU01Yi
— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) October 11, 2016
Anyone who doubts wikileaks is working w/ Putin: read how my words falsely became those of a Clinton confidante. https://t.co/1d5qvU01Yi
— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) October 10, 2016
To call all this overwrought deceit is to understate the case. In particular, the repeated claim that his story has anything to do with, let alone demonstrates, that “wikileaks is working w/Putin” or “wikileaks is compromised” is an outright fraud. The assertion in the second tweet — that “only those two [Trump and Russia] knew” about the article — is an outright lie, since by the time Trump cited it, it had been published hours earlier on the internet and shared widely on social media. Moreover, none of the documents released by WikiLeaks have yet to be identified as anything but completely authentic.
But look at his tweets: Each has been re-tweeted by close to 1,000 people, and in the case of the most sensationalistic ones, many more. And they were quickly hyped by people who should know better because anyone supporting Hillary Clinton wants to believe that this is true:
I can't believe we're not collectively making a bigger deal about Russian state interference in a US election. https://t.co/2gSfDmzF9D
— Kevin Roose (@kevinroose) October 11, 2016
Been uncertain about trusting #Wikileaks emails? Here's one indicator that you've been right to be wary. https://t.co/JTIIzWN87h
— Diane Duane (@dduane) October 11, 2016
Trump now directly repeating Russian propaganda too ludicrous for Breitbart. Who's feeding it to him? https://t.co/JQr4ZGTjUy
— Paul Krugman (@paulkrugman) October 11, 2016
4. As @kurteichenwald points out, at least one of the hacked emails has been doctored to make Hillary look worse.
— Matt O'Brien (@ObsoleteDogma) October 11, 2016
This is why you should never believe anything coming from Russia and/or WikiLeaks. And why it's dumb to quote them: https://t.co/d8c4HEy9Ly
— Georg Kleine (@GeorgKleine) October 11, 2016
Russsia leaked hacked emails but created forgeries first plagiarizing a reporter. Only Russian news posted the lie. Yet, @realDonaldTrump… https://t.co/mGizfPpHWF
— Chris Sacca (@sacca) October 11, 2016
Literally none of that happened. Or at least there is zero evidence that it did. These are smart, rational people falling for a scam. Why? It’s in part because Twitter fosters this group-think and lack of critical thought — you just click a button and, with little effort, you’ve spread whatever you want people to believe — but it’s also because they’re so convinced of the righteousness of their cause (electing Clinton/defeating Trump) that they have cast all limits and constraints to the side, believing that any narrative or accusation or smear, no matter how false or conspiratorial, is justified in pursuit of it.
But while Donald Trump’s candidacy poses grave dangers, so does group-think righteousness, particularly when it engulfs those with the greatest influence. The problem is that none of this is going to vanish after the election. This election-year machine that has been constructed based on elite unity in support of Clinton — casually dismissing inconvenient facts as fraudulent to make them disappear, branding critics and adversaries as tools or agents of an Enemy Power bent on destroying America — is a powerful one. As is seen here, it is capable of implanting any narrative, no matter how false; demonizing any critic, no matter how baseless; and riling up people to believe they’re under attack.
For a long time, liberals heralded themselves as part of the “reality-based community” and derided conservatives as faith-based victims of “epistemic closure.” The dynamics seen here are anything but byproducts of reason.
Top photo: TV sets in a shop in Moscow on April 16, 2015, during the broadcast of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s annual televised phone-in with the nation.
Given this blog is from one who aided a traitor to the state, the words must be read with a little skepticism. Neither party is clean, but to “assume” that Assange isn’t running his own scheme is quite naive. He surely has an axe to grind. I cannot automatically give complete credence to anything posted on the internet.
Perhaps the truest assumption is that both sides are submitting disinformation in order to subvert the actions of each other.
It’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation.
Political parties may be the focus, but they aren’t the threat. The real threat arises from the billionaires on the planet, people like Putin and Trump (and more and more, the Clintons), whose goal is to own everything and to control us like slaves.
Good luck…we all need it.
Snowden Treaty When?
When the US Election ends, can we please begin a UN Treaty for Snowden that pardons him from jail and allows him amnesty? Why do we play Syrian lives like cards on a table? This Syrian proxy war has gone on too long. The last count I saw from The Intercept in the US Presidential Debates had Russia-Putin mentioned over 150 times yet environment/climate change only 5. This is a disgrace & shame to my global generation, the millennials. USA-Russia pretty much run the Syrian war, indirectly of course.
Although I’m now politically supportive of LatAm, I’m well aware of my generation back in the states. I can’t recall my entire life ever meeting a millennial in the States who was against Russia. Not one. It seems to me that it’s a bunch of old folk who want to dwell in the past.
Global Millennials are largely concerned about our future Earth over our lifetime – the next 50 years. The details for peace between USA & Russia are surely worth trying for, if not only to put attention on our most pressing needs, getting our world off fossils & lowering global greenhouses, which might mean less meat too. Yes, Assad is a dictator guilty of war crimes, as the west likes to chime, but a mirror on western support for other suppressive regimes in the region would water down this superiority of human rights.
Russia-USA has turned from cold to frozen yet long forgotten is the warming of our globe. The next UN Sec-Gen has openly called for thawing of tempers between the two superpowers. This call is welcomed by me. The sooner we can calm chaos between them, then it’s likely directly proportional to the calming of chaos in the Middle East, which also means less immigration into Europe.
When I look at the most pressing challenge for humanity over the next decade, it is climate change.
I remember years ago reading a Tom Clancy novel where the Russian General said to the American General when he parroted some nonsense; “you believe your own propaganda”. Boys and girls, you have been so dumbed down, most of you believe your own propaganda. Look what passes for entertainment these days; the movies have sunk from the pubescent male fantasies to literally comic books on the big screen; graphic violence and soft porn for the feeble minded. In my country, Canada we are watching American bore ball and it takes up much of the news. Americans, playing an American game in the “American league” paid in American dollars. When I grew up, no self respecting Canadian male would drink bland wiser but they do now. The garbage food and music have gone world wide; McPimple in Paris, cRap machine (not AI computer generated) rubbish is popular as humans sink to the lowest level as they divert themselves from the miserable non societies we have been led into. Chelsey is in jail and Lloyd Blankfein is making more money than ever. Julian is under house arrest costing the Brits 10s of millions and Snowden is a refugee in Russia; who woulda thunk we could fall so far, so fast.
Are you arguing we should blindly accept everything coming from Russian hackers as authentic??
Listen, my American … partners (joke of Lavrov), the main thing is that if you are going to have a confrontation with the world hegemon, you need to make sure that you will be able to respond to anything it does. The economy, the military, the government and society all need to be ready. If you’re not ready, you need to play for time.
The US must choose either to implement its threats and
launch a nuclear war, or put up with the fact that this is no longer a
unipolar world, and begin to behave accordingly.
… :)) because the longer Washington pretends that nothing happened, the more its vassals (who are called allies but are actually dependents) will ignore American ambitions and defect to the new multipolar power.
The US can wait till it is no longer even one center of a multipolar world. Not only Africans, Asians and Latin-Americans but also Europeans will take revenge on the former hegemon for past humiliations.
(And they are not so considerate as Russia :-)
Truly we are living in a world that glorifies form over substance. It is highly improbable, (precisely because of the accusations against them), to think that the WikiLeaks information about the Clinton campaign member’s lies and their dishonorable abuse of the American people’s trust came from Russia. Even if if it did, then we should all be thanking Russia. Thank you Russia, for the Truth.
“I am for Truth, no matter who tells it”
Malcom X
Listen, my American … partners (joke of Lavrov), the main thing is that if you are going to have a confrontation with the world hegemon, you need to make sure that you will be able to respond to anything it does. The economy, the military, the government and society all need to be ready. If you’re not ready, you need to play for time.
The US must choose either to implement its threats and
launch a nuclear war, or put up with the fact that this is no longer a
unipolar world, and begin to behave accordingly.
… :)) because the longer Washington pretends that nothing happened, the more its vassals (who are called allies but are actually dependents) will ignore American ambitions and defect to the new multipolar power.
The US can wait till it is no longer even one center of a multipolar world. Not only Africans, Asians and Latin-Americans but also Europeans will take revenge on the former hegemon for past humiliations.
(And they are not so considerate as Russia :-)
It’s not the authenticity; it’s the egregiousness of the privacy violation–and the reflexive complicity & easy manipulation of journalists with an agenda.
Everyone–including politicians and celebrities–have a right to privacy in their private communications, both from the government and from private parties. Intercept would join a cat burglar in a theft and claim ‘public interest’ in anything stolen. Intercept does a disservice to Edward Snowden’s courageous disclosure of government illegality and public interest whistleblowing.
Actually as Secretary of State her communications (non classified) in service of the state are public record. She lost the right to privacy on her personal server when she began using it to conduct official, public business. If I try and connect to my company’s mail server through my personal phone, I get a notification that I rescind my rights to privacy on that device, and grant my company the right to do whatever the heck they want, including root my phone.
Really think that warning people about bogus wiki leak should only be criticized as not be specific enough – wiki leaks is easy to find but not that easy to navigate even if correctly found.
There should be more warnings of false wiki leak sites – some of which were set up and displayed before the drop. The criticism for Nance should be to be more specific.
The fact that Democrats not commenting until authenticated would be the right response – Why would someone give comment to anything someone read on the Internet? The reporter asking the question might of gotten their information from Trump or Breitbart – who knows?
Most people will search Google for wiki leaks – When I did that search Fox News showed higher results than wiki- leak.org – Not sure how they reported it but i think you get the point.
Someone please answer this: when Assange had been announcing for many months he had emails that would discredit Clinton, why did he wait to release them until she was already the Democratic nominee when he could have released them during the primaries and possibly assisted Sanders in claiming the nomination? Did he purposely wait until it was her against Trump so that his leaks could help Trump win the White House? It would be a whole different ball game if he leaked the emails in April, and now the contest was between Sanders and Trump. Is Assange pulling for Trump along with Russia? Is he holding a grudge against the US because they have made his escape from the embassy in London impossible for 3 years?
Assange is pulling for Wikileaks and nobody else. He wanted an October Surprise that would stay in the press cycle while the public is watching. If he released in April, it would quickly get forgotten as soon as the next primary result was out. By releasing over a period of time, as close to the election as possible, he gets maximum eyeballs and maximum reader engagement.
If you stayed up for the hour-and-a-half-long Wikileaks infomercial where he announced the dump, it’s clear that he doesn’t give a shit about either Trump *or* Clinton. His goal is #1 promote Wikileaks and #2 expose the corruptness of the whole system. The mainstream media is doing a pretty good job exposing the corruptness of Trump, so all he has to do is expose the corruptness of Clinton.
I’m not sure I believe anymore that Assange is working for nobody but himself.
He is physically under Ecuador’s power. If Evo Morales cares about keeping Russia as an ally, this means that Assange is physically under Russia’s power. They could kill him at any time. They could hand him over for prosecution at any time. Why should we assume he is free to act as he pleases? He is only free to act at Russia’s pleasure.
@ Jonathan….
WTF does “Evo Morales”, the president of Bolivia, have to do with Assange or his being in Ecuador’s embassy?
As Usual,
EA
What Trump corruption?Other than vulgarity accusations,his corruption is minimal compared to HRC.
Please list his lies and corruption?
And believing serial liars about anything and everything belies your ethics concern.
She might be the most corrupt human on earth,a very hard to attain attribute in a world of the corrupt.
Good work Glenn.
I suppose now they’ll come after you? Oh, right, that’s already happened.
Before Hillary’s camp and the DNC and the “news” media got caught red-handed with the first batch of leaked emails, there was nothing about Russia trying to do anything to our election. The only reason this gained traction was because of what was IN those emails. Obviously. Obfuscation. Diversion. Bollocks.
I have noticed lately in Wikipedia that my ‘go to’ links for fighting zionism are being altered or eradicated. When I went to try and edit the information to include some facts, the editing option was locked out. This concerns me greatly.
Basically the election is over. Wall St. and corporate America are once again safe. The status quo is preserved. Above all. Democrat is the new Republican.
As for me, I will vote for Jill Stein. It will take a whole lot of Stein votes to throw the election to Trump, but if that is what it takes to birth a meaningful new party then bring on tge dumpster fire.
Serial liars who hate Trump tell you the election is over.
I can’t understand the abject surrendering of logic to believe their self centered calumny attempt to deny Trump the POTUS.
Are you a sheep?
I say Trump is in it to win it,and I’m of the inclination that he will.
I’m no Nate Silver(agenda)though,who has backed off his HRC 97% win probability a little.
The exact same thing was said by Nader about potentially throwing the 2000 election to Bush, that that outcome would bring about the needed “revolution.” Didn’t happen then, and wouldn’t happen this time. Trump would be ten times the tragedy for our country that Bush was, and that’s saying a lot.
All this talk about corporatocracy is too glib and simplistic, as if that’s the only evil in this world. Yes, the current system needs to be challenged and eventually replaced, but it can’t be done all at once because 1.) it’s too integrated into our very existence and 2.) as much as we like to think that we have the alternative all figured out and ready to go, we actually don’t.
It’s like the Alien — you try to cut it off the guy’s face, and it bleeds molecular acid that threatens to eat through your spaceship. A “revolution” to topple the current power structures (and I use the plural consciously here; there are competing power structures; it’s not anywhere near as monolithic or coordinated as armchair socialists like to imagine) would profoundly hurt a lot of good and innocent people along with the “bad guys,” who would only be replaced by a new and even more self-righteous crop of masters.
It’s incredible how powerless she makes people feel. She basically, if you’re right, ran unopposed for the highest office in the world. She bullied every big name Democrat into staying out, then played dirty with the power of the DNC behind her to discredit her no name opponent that she allowed to run thinking he wouldn’t be much of a fight. The latest emails confirm was hoping Trump would win, which gives some credibility/plausibility to the theory, as a friend of the Clintons, he was actually chosen to run by them to leave the Republican party in shambles on his way through the primaries and serve as weak opposition in the general. Like the primary, she seems to have miscalculate just how hated she is, and is now forced to play by the lowest means possible to discredit her opponent and win by default.
And your response is, well, I’m powerless — time to vote for a third party candidate. Your time vote for a third party candidate was last election. Or the one before. Americans have had plenty of opportunity to vote for a third party candidate. That time has now passed. The stakes are way too high. You were too weak to vote for a third party candidate when it could have made a difference, and voting for one now is once again proving how weak and easily manipulated you are. Even Jill Stein admits Hillary is far more dangerous than Trump.
The problem with WikiLeaks is not that the raw data is phony; it’s that it’s selective. You never see anything in WikiLeaks about Putin, Trump or Kim Jong-Un. That Assange’s hacked materials are authentic doesn’t preclude that he has a slanted agenda of his own, which he promotes through selective, targeted hacks. That is quite enough to make the idea that he is in league with certain people and against certain others perfectly reasonable. So yes, authentic information, as far as it goes, but not to be trusted as you would trust “real journalism.”
The Apprentice, Trump’s reality TV show, admits that it has years of unreleased backstage hotmic audio in its digital archives. They say that this material can’t be released for legal reasons. Let’s see if WikiLeaks hacks and releases this treasure trove any time soon. Somehow, I doubt it.
Finally, if 11 U.S. intelligence agencies say that there is “high confidence” consensus that Russia is behind the hacking of the DNC and Clinton campaign, and the Hillary-hating far left responds that this is to be disregarded because all of these agencies serve the Clinton/Bilderberg global conspiracy, that would be a perfect example of the “group-think righteousness” described in this article, which “casually dismisses inconvenient facts as fraudulent to make them disappear,” and “brands critics and adversaries as tools or agents” of those evil Clintons, bent on destroying freedom around the world.
Here’s the problem. When facts are used to push an agenda… they’re still facts. Selectively presented, but It’s entirely possible that we’re missing additional information that could put what’s stated in the emails in a different context, but that’s simply not a strong enough justification to write everything off. And if context is a factor, there’s nothing preventing Hillary from providing it.
What you say applies in spades to Assange, who likes to pose as the Robin Hood of transparency but actually seems to be driven by an “enemies list,” more like Richard Nixon or J. Edgar Hoover.
Assange may have an agenda, but that doesn’t invalidate the authenticity of the information he has released. He has no obligation to follow your agenda.
WikiLeaks doesn’t pretend to be pure journalism. It releases information “as is,” without embellishment.
What the US intelligence community says is irrelevant to the allegations about WikiLeaks.
Your hyperbole about “evil Clintons” comes nowhere near the truth about how people critique Bill and Hillary.
You’re right, Jerry; actually, I started my post above by granting that the WikiLeaks material is authentic. I only pointed out that it’s slanted by Assange’s agenda, which you admit.
My point all along is that Assange is not the Robin Hood of transparency; he’s just another guy with his own axe to grind. Now, you may find his slanted agenda very convincing, but I don’t believe that the majority of voters will agree with you. Let’s see what happens on November 8.
As for the intelligence community’s statements about Russian hacking being “irrelevant,” that is a perfect example of the point I made above, that the same “group-think righteousness” that Greenwald described in his piece applies across the board, from far left to far right. And if people say after the election that it was rigged or that the Hillary supporters were “sheep” or some other such descriptor meant to imply that the people who call them these things are paragons of superiority, that will be yet another example of “group-think righteousness.”
Actually, Assange doesn’t have to be “convincing.” The leaks speak for themselves, in their own voice, not Assange’s.
The voters, for their part, are indicating that they will rightfully reject Trump and shoe-in Clinton, regardless of the revelations from WikiLeaks. But that won’t invalidate the veracity of those leaks.
I don’t see the “far Left” (wherever that is) buying into hyperbole and lies. I see centrists and fake Leftists, as well as Rightists, doing so.
Now that Greenwald has coined the phrase “group-think righteousness,” posters are looking for excuses to apply it everywhere, and even to counter-accuse each other of it.
Some people may claim the election is rigged, and in some ways most elections probably are, to at least a small extent. Whether people fall in line in so claiming and qualify for that phrase will make no difference.
Seems to me that critical thinkers who understand how media can shape and influence thought should understand that “But the material isn’t faked” is not a legitimate answer to the charge of media bias. Where they point the camera is a decision.
Why the wait until now, rather than during the primary? Where are Trump and the RNC’s emails? The notion that this obviously organized campaign of exposures is a neutral, “just the facts” exercise in transparency and “sunlight” if the released emails aren’t forged is some blinkered nonsense that could stand a dose of Chomsky.
An ax to grind?Well if you were imprisoned for ? years over a bogus sex charge(Trump and he actually )and had the worlds corrupt totally out to get him in prison for life,and just lately had the Swedes refuse to drop the dumb charges because of the intimidation from the O-Hell Bitch camp of ziowhores,your ax would be razor sharp too,but hey,hypocrites seem the fastest growing denomination in this world.
Maybe they aren’t f*ckups like the DNC and the Hell Bitch.
I guarantee every one of those alleged intelligence agencies want no part of Mr.Trump in the WH.
Which makes me even more eager to vote for him.
Which makes the resistance to Trump from alleged truth seekers very mystifying.
Brain malfunction.
And if they manage to pull off this fix,the people most hurt will be the purist hypocrites who can’t see the forest for their own weird prejudices created by the MSM they allegedly despise .
You’ll be pathetic laughing stocks.
>>The problem with WikiLeaks is not that the raw data is phony; it’s that it’s selective. You never see anything in WikiLeaks about Putin, Trump or Kim Jong-Un.
That would be true, if they had materials on “Putin, Trump or Kim Jong-Un” and didn’t publish them. Unless you have information this is the case, all you’ve written is bollocks.
Glenn:
I’ve heard you speak & you’re a smart guy. From my humble perspective, Trump single-handedly moved the entire Republican party to support of LGBTQ. He did that at the convention. Alone, the first, success.
If that got your attention …. Perhaps you’re getting mired in his words (to get free media, which he has done successfully) but missing the message. For a totally different perspective, pls check Scott Adams blog 9 months ago till now — what he calls the Master Persuader Hypothesis. And realize that you, like most of us, are constantly being psychologically manipulated thruout the election process. Perhaps you will find this enlightening, if you just give it a shot. Please do not be part of the servile, Clinton-supporting, mindless mainstream media. You are better than that.
Your last sentence leaves me puzzled.
No one could be further from “the servile, Clinton-supporting, mindless mainstream media” than The Intercept.
Your last sentence is puzzling.
No one could be further from “the servile, Clinton-supporting, mindless mainstream media” than The Intercept.
No.The intercept is full of propagandists for HRC,although GG isn’t,or at least is subtle about it.The others are pathetic liars.
This article wasn’t very subtle at all. He might even hate Hillary but he hates the idea of any Republican being in office even more and that goes double for Trump. Why all the righteous indignation in regards to Trump is beyond me. Hillary is far more dangerous than Trump will ever be simply because she is in fact a very powerful person with very powerful friends. What exactly is Trump supposed to do that is so dangerous? He will be opposed on anything and everything he does. So his level of power is and will be nothing compared with Hillary’s? This knee jerk fear response to Trump makes no logical sense at all. Yet it seems to be an actual fear none the less. Hillary if allowed to gain office will have real power and she has already shown exactly what she is capable for doing. Trump on the other hand will have very little power at all and in the only area where he has any power (CIC) he is a hundred times better than her.
I also think that liberals are misunderstanding the Trump phenomena because they really do believe their own hype. They assume that it’s Trump guiding his followers when in fact it’s simply Trump using popular sentiment to gain votes. He isn’t guiding them at all, it’s the other way around. You shouldn’t blame or fear Trump for articulating what the public already feels, that blame should go on the people who created a situation where these feelings flourished in the first place. Hillary said a real mouthful when she called half of America “deplorable and irredeemable”. It seems that it’s yet to dawn on the left that this sentiment is already well known and it’s a rejection of that sentiment that is driving Trump’s supporters.
Someone is still questioning the fact that Bushes and Clintons are the biggest war criminals in the past 70 years. I’m shocked. Trump is the new guy in the equation but he did nothing yet. Trump is racist!? Really? This is Donald Duck level of intelligence
Keep spoon feeding your feeble brain on Fox.
Keep parroting 2003-era snark.
Even Fox is HRC warm,at the least.A bunch of scum,every MSM outlet.
But the little propagandists don’t admit it,its not a good narrative,modern Goebells everywhere.
Maybe Trump can put some muscle in the FCC and shut the bastards down!
Why do you think they are raising the stakes day by day?
He won’t owe zion a f*cking thing.Hoo hah!
Will the sleepers awaken?
Trump equals American sovereignty,Clinton equals American slavery.
Its that simple.
“this is a small embarrassment for Trump: He cited an erroneous story from a non-credible Russian outlet” Haha wow, you literally have no problem apologizing for people that quote Russian news front sites verbatim but Hilary is a crook? You’re a tool GG
Trump may have quoted a Russian news site verbatim, but Hillary, as SOS, sold Russia 1/5th of the USA’s total uranium production capabilities, after getting millions of dollars in donations from Russia to the Clinton Foundation, and a half million dollar speaking fee for her husband from those same Russians. Yeah, Hillary is a crook.
Glen .. I need an answer. If Trump is bad as you say and Hillary is just as bad, how long do you think it will take Hillary to launch a nuclear WW3 for the insane US Ziocon war mongers?
IN GENERAL WE’VE ALL CONSPIRED TO PRODUCE AN UNAWARE AND COMPLIANT CITIZENRY- paraphrased quote from a Clinton insider.
Bill Ivey, an appointee of Pres. Bill Clinton/political insider, emailed John Podesta this last March of 2016. Wikileaks has this email and the following quote below comes from it..
“And as I’ve mentioned, we’ve all been quite content to demean government, drop civics and in general conspire to produce an unaware and compliant citizenry. The unawareness remains strong but compliance is obviously fading rapidly. This problem demands some serious, serious thinking.”
I am annoyed that any story by so called “journalist” Greenwald was somehow posted at the otherwise excellent zerohedge site.
But I was more than relieved at the comments section over there where it turns out people know exactly who Greenwald is.
you’re welcome!
“excellent zerohedge site”
LOL
as a self-described “recovering republican” this has been obvious to me for some time & to which I’ve been warning my friends on “team blue” that the methods of the left are becoming more dangerous than the ideas of the right…
Have you read Killing the Messing by David Brock. The right has been employing the method of misinformation since the early nineties. It wrong and I’m grateful to have read Greenwald article and have it to show as an example of what all of us need to be aware of.
You’re incorrect to characterize the Democratic Party middle as “the Left.”
The Intercept is the Left.
This is fun, not content to allow the Saudis to be the only ones doing the shooting at Yemenis, the US is now openly attacking Yemen….in “self-defense”.
Americans are funny.
Part of the problem is that Americans seem to have trouble with chronology.
America started bombing Syria in 2014, after years of indirect assistance to anti-government rebels (and Obama openly advocating the removal of the Syrian government). In 2015 Russia began bombing rebels in Syria, at the invitation of the Syrian government.
Where did the Russians get the notion that they could go around dropping bombs like that???
Maybe if American media invited the occasional foreign official on TV on a more regular basis, they could bring up things like the time line of intervention in Syria and these things would stick in the average American’s memory. (Assuming American media were interested in challenging the American government’s narrative)
…Time passes…
I’m no history major but I calculate a year and change between the US bombing Syria, and Russia bombing Syria.
Yeah, because radar installations are a provocation to shipping.
Have you learned nothing????
Obviously, Clinton campaign and her elite supporters plan has been to distract the people by creating and promoting a fake enemy in order to distract people from learning how real corrupt Clinton and the democratic party is. This is so sad for America and the Americans. This is not to say the republicans are the choice? The party and their candidates are horrifying too.
Is this what we call democracy? American democracy died with unlimited campaign contributions and a media supported by corporations and concerned for ratings than informing people.
“As is seen here, it is capable of implanting any narrative, no matter how false; demonizing any critic, no matter how baseless; and riling up people to believe they’re under attack.” (article)
Interesting that you attributed this to the Clinton campaign when it has become the SOP for the GOP (this coming from a guy who recently burned his 30 year old GOP registration because I just can’t take the hypocrisy any longer). I would cite examples but they would only be called media bias by the rabble so not going to bother.
With so many of the establishment elite of both branches of the Business Party now united against the odious Trump, we are truly facing a one party state.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Who is more odious?A vulgar candidate who has committed no crimes,or a vulgar candidate who has committed multiple crimes,and is working with anti democratic criminals in overturning American democracy?
And whose vapid supporters are all for obviously.
Holy shite,what a disaster.
Imagine the debt the evil twit HB will owe the Zionists for installing her by hook or crook into the POTUS?
Unimaginable.
God,help US.
With Homeland Security “supervising” the elections to prevent them being “hacked” by the Russians and their Manchurian candidate Trump, they know just who’s been a disloyal traitor and didn’t vote Clinton. House Unamerican Activities to start cleansing in January!
Another great article from Glenn. Let’s hope he is wrong about the certainty of the harpy’s victory. The early disclaimer shows how far we are on the road to fascism and the threat of armageddon should the Clintons get in is real, as this articles’ info corroborates. The yankee and satellite media has gone fully fascist on Russia, and the end result will be mutual assured destruction.
The distance from Brazil to America prevents GGs finger from being on the pulse of the American electorate.
I think he will be in for a surprise Nov.8.
I fervently hope so.
Our moderator is sure,though, that the American people will vote for the continuance of our terrible present nightmare.
No faith at all in that one,for sure,just prejudice.
We must have read different articles.
There is nothing in it that advocates against a Clinton victory over Trump.
from http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/10/13/elec-o13.html
I can’t be sure that this focus on absorption and use of Republican party tactics began with Bill Clinton, but it was definitely encoded – “triangulation” anyone? “Welfare reform”?? – and pushed into warp overdrive in his administration. The result is the current status where the right explores new limits of extremity daily and the Democratic party has flows in to triumphantly occupy the space that remains continuing and inexorable shift to the right on the political spectrum irrespective of what polls actually indicate the populace wants.
The Clintons may not have begun this corrupt process but they most definitely will continue it if/when Hillary takes up her mantle.
That’s a good article. Thanks for posting it.
You are naive, or part of the corruption to think that hillary will have a chance to win. She is evil and corrupt and YOU know it.
Trump has many like-minded buddies in NY, and they’re not going away. They will rally around someone new 4 years hence.
Come on Glenn didn’t you know it was Putin who sent that Hurricane into our East coast last week, lol.
The hurricane that dropped off radar screens once they played Trumps tape?
Yes, to all of this:
When thou pointest a finger at me,
thou hast still three pointing back at thee.
I tried to send this article to a family member, oddly enough they wouldn’t visit the link because their yahoo mail marked this website as “insecure connection” and they worried it would harm their computer. Has anyone else experienced incorrect flags when linking intercept articles?
“The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming! Everyone to get from street!”
Glenn-while you seem to be able to string condemnatory adjectives to describe Trump (which are all incontrovertible presumably), where have you strung a similar list to describe Hillary Clinton? Here are a few suggestions: vindictive, mendacious, foul-mouthed, murderous, self-entitled, venal, corrupt, ditzy, criminal). Feel free to borrow as you see fit, or proffer some of your own. Instead, you focus on “tactics” that her campaign and supporters engage in. Now SHE has nothing to do with that, right? Just her minions and enablers, while she sits in her parlor drinking tea. Just remember, she’ll be the first to string your ass up if you so much as set foot in this country again.
For what? How? Are you unaware that Glenn has been in “this country” numerous times since Snowden docs began being published?
Just so you’re aware, Greenwald isn’t in trouble Snowden is…
I saw Greenwald at the Snowden (video), Greenwald, and Chomsky, talk at the University of Arizona not all that long ago.
The evil twit is not POTUS yet.
Your defense of the evil twit is noted.
Notice how all once allegedly noble people embrace the dark side like long lost pals?
Hypocrites united.
I remember the erudite and verbose mornings minion from way back,with her lengthy moral sermons and nice words of peace love and understanding,and now shes a HB supporter.(unless someone stole her handle?)
Really now.
I have never in my life seen such a corrupt power mad human seeking the office of POTUS. My deceased Mom named her cats Hillary and Chelsea, I voted for bent dick both times,and am no more right than left,as i have no ideology but logic, despite my fervent nationalism in a time of foreign subjugation ,but even the blind squirrel would figure her out.
She is the wrong woman.Jill Stein could be the right woman,in the future,but right now Trump is the only possible candidate to rescue America from the obvious outrageous influence of absolutely corrupt dual citizen zionists on US.
Are you out of your mind?
Rhetorical question.
Have you thought what a Trump-appointed Supreme Court would do to the Bill of Rights?
To healthcare?
To marriage equality?
To the social safety net?
Apparently not.
Trump defends the constitution,the Hell Bitch and Obomba(and their friend the shrub)walk all over it.
And all your concerns are BS,as healthcare for the highest bidder leaves the poor out of luck,he is not anti gay in any way,and has called for more SS,while your zero HB calls for diminishing it.
Do you read the news?
And yes,I am insane over the absolute depraved media and their attempt to fix this election for their chosen whore,the lop eared rabbit,as the fact they did it to Sanders and now Trump common knowledge.
I’m gonna blow!Yee haw!
Trump for POTUS.
Again,as an American patriot,I see no possibility of any patriot casting a vote for this despicable creature HRC,as we want to remain proud Americans,not 3rd world citizens living in a future of shite,as her open bordered globalized wal mart warmongering queen of hell promises.
Hopefully there are a majority of patriots left,after all these years of open bordered nonsense of divide and conquer.
Mr Greenwald, I thank you for the help you gave Snowden, and appreciate your past work.
But you have lost me when you start working with people to undermine America’s elections, which would likely bring the world a nuclear-tipped, mentally unbalanced dictator who boasts of sexually assaulting women and walking in to “inspect” his nude 14-yo contestants in his beauty pageants. This forced groping sounds like tales of past-KGB bosses who groped girls on the street, and sometimes brought them back for extra interrogation.
You obviously can’t prove that none of the document have been modified, and the past documents have shown nothing more surprising than I’d expect to see if someone went through your documents, and those of all your friends. Maybe you will face that dump if you ever upset WikiLeaks.
I watched as Julian tried to intimidate Bill Maeher by claiming to have documentation of his campaign contributions during the 2012 Presidential election, which shows how petty he is.
Wikileaks is trying to disrupt this election, and move it in the direction of Trump/Putin. You obviously can’t prove that none of the emails have been modified, and I don’t think you care.
Of course there would be few if any real fakes in the first few weeks, as people like you are vouching for the unbiased accuracy and integrity of WikiLeaks.
So by the time HRC’s signed “Benghazi confession” is proved to be fake, the damage could be done.
Like the election in the Crimea, but fewer guns.
BTW, what were the results in and the land where Stalin starved about 4 million people in his hunger Purge.
Over 90% in favor of joining Russia, looks like they forgot about the famine.
Stay out of our elections
Dumb.
Hillaryous;But the Zionist media which is our bane can support and fix the election totally for their chosen stooge HRC.
Isn’t it obvious?sheesh.
The Russians aren’t dumb,why would they with Nato on their borders itching for trouble,give them a reason for it by meddling in our election?No way.
In 08 and 12,both rethug nominees played the anti Russian card and were laughed at by the demoncrats.
What a bunch of hypocrites and liars.
And both the Russians and the Trump Campaign aren’t dumb like hell bots,and don’t let themselves be hacked,I guess would be a logical answer,and maybe they are honest and honorable(a lost American virtue),so they don’t have to hide dirty laundry like HRC.
Kaspersky?(sic)
Pedinska
“…….Continuing with the analogy, while Snowden did, indeed, provide all of us with actual proof of the NSA’s size and capability, he did not provide any proof – you know, evidence – that their junk was functional. It’s not hard to see that. You just have to read with comprehension. Well, and a bit of honesty…….”
The first thing that is really funny is you (or most on this site) taking the word of James Clapper. Certainly, that is a first. Second, I noted the same skepticism when North Korea hacked Sony. Of course, you were skeptical pedinska demanding that we read “with a comprehension and a bit of honesty”. Greenwald presented all this contrary evidence by industry “experts” (although strangely he did not mention you pedinska) only to have Snowden confirm that the FBI presented proof of the hack in Mackey’s article:
“……“If Russia hacked the #DNC, they should be condemned for it,” Snowden wrote on Twitter on Monday, with a link to a 2015 report on the U.S. government’s response to the hacking of Sony Pictures. In that case, he noted, “the FBI presented evidence” for its conclusion that North Korea was responsible for the hacking and subsequent release of internal emails……”.
Clearly the US government has the tools as Snowden said – and they are confident that Russia hacked the DNC. Furthermore, Mackey presents additional evidence which you dismiss (because for the moment you can). Of course, there is nothing conclusive until the FBI presents the evidence. Even then you will likely dismiss the evidence as cooked by the FBI.
The one point in your favor is that Putin (himself) denied the charge of hacking the DNC. We all know Putin has a great deal of credibility like:
A. Putin denied that Russia was responsible for shooting down the Malaysian airline over Ukraine (NYT):
“…….A Dutch-led investigation has concluded that the powerful surface-to-air missile system used to shoot down a Malaysia Airlines plane over Ukrainetwo years ago, killing all 298 on board, was trucked in from Russia at the request of Russian-backed separatists and returned to Russia the same night…….”
B. Putin denied bombing the aid convoy in Syria (AJ):
“……..”The air forces of Russia and Syria did not conduct any strikes against the UN aid convoy in the southwestern outskirts of Aleppo,” defence ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said in a statement……. Konashenkov said the attack the previous night doesn’t appear to have been from an air strike.…….”
However a study of satellite photos led the UN to a different conclusion:
“…….Analysis of satellite imagery of a deadly attack on an aid convoy in Syria last month showed that it was an air strike, a UN expert said on Wednesday……”
C. Putin lied when he said the Russian military was not on Ukraine soil (Telegraph):
“……..Vladimir Putin admitted to deploying Russian military specialists to eastern Ukraine on Thursday, dropping nearly two years of denials that Russian servicemen were involved in the conflict there……”
So you are on solid ground because Putin denied the charge.
The first thing that is really funny is you (or most on this site) taking the word of James Clapper.
Why? Even you should understand that not everyone lies all the time. In fact, the best liars – as you know – skirt the edge of the truth, hence his “wittingly” caveat when he demonstrably lied to Congress. So, when one takes into account not only what he was saying but whom he was talking to when he said it there didn’t seem to be any reason to disbelieve him. If you have some proof he was lying here too, then cough it up. Until then, this quote from Clapper actually makes sense:
Of course he knows very well it’s happened because we do it to other countries too and have inserted ourselves into elections as well. It’s really amusing, considering our own history, that so many people are outraged – OUTRAGED I tells ya! – about all of this.
In that case, he noted, “the FBI presented evidence” for its conclusion
Has the FBI presented evidence for the alleged Russia hack? If so, please link to it so I can evaluate it. That’s how people make decisions, based on evaluating for themselves the evidence, not just assertions. And, yeah, that process involves evaluating the truth of what the FBI produces an part of that process involves keeping in mind their track record of fabrication. And maybe Clapper was downplaying because any proof they have of international hacking also provides evidence of their own incompetence at protecting critical systems. Or not….hard to say until evidence is produced.
So you are on solid ground because Putin denied the charge.
Since I’ve never claimed anything regarding Putin and truth and, in fact, am convinced that just like other leaders he will lie if it suits his purposes, all your handwaving over the Malaysian plane have nothing to do with anything I wrote. Complete non-sequitur except for the fact that you got to type PutinPutinPutin repeatedly. You go, boy!
“……..Of course he knows very well it’s happened because we do it to other countries too and have inserted ourselves into elections as well. It’s really amusing, considering our own history, that so many people are outraged – OUTRAGED I tells ya! – about all of this……”
I’m certainly not outraged or surprised since Putin clearly supports Trump. And I am not surprised because the CIA has a history of interference in other countries especially during the cold war – so why would we expect other intelligence agencies to be any different if not worse.
“……. Has the FBI presented evidence for the alleged Russia hack? If so, please link to it so I can evaluate it. That’s how people make decisions, based on evaluating for themselves the evidence, not just assertions…..”
I doubt the FBI is just making “assertions”. As pointed out in the Mackey article, there is an ongoing investigation i.e., they are not done, but it is interesting that the FBI has stuck their neck out by pointing the finger at Russia with confidence. Bloomberg writes:
“…….“High confidence” is a phrase used by intelligence agencies to signal near-certainty, so the findings, which haven’t been publicly released, underscore the extent to which the Russian government has been found to have spied on this year’s U.S. presidential elections……”
They did the same thing with Sony pictures, and despite Greenwald pointing to “experts” who disagreed, they were right – as Snowden said (and he does have credibility around these parts).
“…….Since I’ve never claimed anything regarding Putin and truth and, in fact, am convinced that just like other leaders he will lie if it suits his purposes, all your handwaving over the Malaysian plane have nothing to do with anything I wrote. Complete non-sequitur…..”
I agree but I just like to remind and bug the Russian-bots like Doug Salzmann.
‘Thanks Pedinska (time will tell)
Has the FBI presented evidence for the alleged Russia hack?
The reply lightly edited to the point:
“
I doubt the FBI is just making “assertions”. . .there is an ongoing investigation. . .the FBI has stuck their neck out by pointing the finger at Russia. . .“High confidence”. . .Sony pictures. . .Greenwald. . .Snowden said. . . – craigsummers”No.
Has the FBI presented evidence for the alleged Russia hack?
The reply lightly edited to the point:
“
I doubt the FBI is just making “assertions”. . .there is an ongoing investigation. . .the FBI has stuck their neck out by pointing the finger at Russia. . .“High confidence”. . .Sony pictures. . .Greenwald. . .Snowden said. . . – craigsummers”No.
WHY I OUGHTA….
See how easy that was?
Not a word registered.
Hillary Clinton And Corporate Media Shamefully Stronger Together
Mackey must be working on a bombshell Trump expose’.
Doesn’t every normal heterosexual man?
IN GENERAL WE CONSPIRE TO PRODUCE AN UNAWARE AND COMPLIANT CITIZENRY…….
“And as I’ve mentioned, we’ve all been quite content to demean government, drop civics and in general conspire to produce an unaware and compliant citizenry. The unawareness remains strong but compliance is obviously fading rapidly. This problem demands some serious, serious thinking”
The above was from a Bill Ivey email to HRC campaign in March of 2016, WIKILEAKS
The above quote from a Bill Ivey email is one of the worst confessions in political history. This explains everything!
I suggest Greenwald spend some time learning a bit more about Malcolm Nance and why he’s qualified to make the statements he has regarding forgeries. Greenwald’s quick rejection of Nance’s assertions about the authenticity of the emails speaks volumes about how much Greenwald doesn’t know.
Clinton doesn’t contest the authenticity of the leaks.
Clinton colludes with journalists.
10 million authentic documents published byWL.
This guy Nance surely is a real hot shot.
I can see why you gave up the law.
“Literally none of that happened. Or at least there is zero evidence that it did.”
Greenwald could write that with a straight face? Give me a break! Once again, he rants and rants and then, at the end of the piece, squeezes in a weasel-worded caveat that he can rely on if and when his assertions are disproved. Give it up.
You must try and understand that Mr. Greenwald was trained as a lawyer and not a journalist. Law is an anachronistic profession that requires people making claims to back them up with evidence. Journalism is a more modern profession, based on implied trust between the writer and reader, that has dispensed with the need for evidence. So it’s probably just a cultural misunderstanding. Mr. Greenwald belongs to that fast disappearing breed, the skeptic.
Benito, nice formulation. Thanks.
Pete spews teh silly:
Well, he probably was rolling his eyes, at the idea that anyone believes the tweets he is referencing. Cuz, yeah, none of that happened. No doctored emails, no Russian state interference in U.S. elections. None of that. Or if any of it did, there’s no evidence. Zilch. Nada. Not diddly.
And who cares who the source is? These claims the Russians hacked the DNC and Mr. Podesta are red herrings used to deflect attention from the content of these hacks. Who cares : It is great fun to eavesdrop on these slimes so, let’s enjoy it while it lasts.
Glenn Greenwald has the right in America to say whatever he wants, though his articles and analysis are wrong and hurts our country as he aligns himself with traitors and other liars like Julian Assange.
Rex D Stock? Rx Dtox
Please enlighten us regarding how his article or analysis are/is “wrong”. Please be specific.
Please enlighten us how his article or analysis “hurts our country”. Please be specific. Because if it is “our country”, and I’m a member of it, I cannot fathom how “his article or analysis hurts our country” or me as a citizen. In fact I believe quite the opposite is the case.
Please provide specific documentation via links to one American convicted of the crime of treason who Glenn Greenwald has “aligned” with.
Please provide specific documentation via links to even one “lie” that Julian Assange has told. Thanks in advance.
Absent proof or compelling argument to support any one of your assertions, my opinion is you should toddle off before people start drop kicking your know-nothingism directly in the balls.
rrheard, excellent reply! I aware you +1 internet
angry bad words against the US are defacto bad, ah-priori, QED etc
as a lawyer you should know this, i think they call it “poisoning the well” or peeing in the Salon
““poisoning the well” or peeing in the Salon”
‘Peeing’ seems passe.
I think we’re getting log rides now.
Hi john. Nice to see you again.
I see you’ve learned to use a bit of punctuation of late. Are upper case letters next?
as a brilliant researcher you seem to have great expertise with grammar and spelling
and even block quotes
however punctuation and caps do not add value as i see it although these tools are available to me if the situation warrants it
“Dancing with the Devil”
Glenn Greenwald, is the bravest most intellectually honest journalist, the only one I know of writing this deep truth. Take care,
“Don’t you dare look at
Him in the eye”
This present article is a great interesting beginning, Glenn, expand upon what will the world experience if/when Hillary is elected.
Analyze this; Wikileaks published the “Pied Piper” document;
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails//fileid/1120/251
Hillary chose her opponents, ordered her media contacts (also documented in Wikileaks) to bust the GOP’s main line candidates by ad nausea covering
Ted Cruz
Donald Trump
Ben Carson
to the exclusion of those GOP candidates deemed harder for Hillary to defeat.
Isn’t it ironic/humorous that Donald Trump has turned into her worst nightmare, dragging out her and Bill’s dirty laundry, while those “legitimate” in her mind opponents whom she didn’t want to face would have never dared tread? She is truly showing how “out of touch” she is and how she has as Donald Trump likes to say, “BAD judgement”.
Donald as Hillary’s CHOSEN opponent, has shown himself to be more than the buffoon playboy billionaire she was so enamored of to rub elbows with at his wedding when she and Billy breathlessly entered the stratospheric glitter of the jet set. They thought they’d “arrived” into their proper place with the “beautiful people” far above the “everyday Americans” she hates.
Too bad Hillary and Bill have turned out to be incapable of breathing the air at that Mt. Everest altitude. They prove over and over and over again that they know nothing about true riches and benevolent leadership, they have no love for anyone save themselves. Even that love isn’t a shared bond of faithfulness to one another. How lonely they are in their separate capsules of greed and avarice and discontent in every office they occupy, it’s never enough for their eternal thirst for more, more, more…..
Dearest craig,
wrt your post below and its references to Snowden and Mackey’s article – which, minor point, was written on July 26, not 16 – I really must note that the article in question, at the time I read it, reminded me of nothing so much as Trump’s Foghorn Leghorn-like proclamations about the size and functionality of his own naughty bits. As the kids are wont to say these days, “Pics or it didn’t happen”. We are fortunate that Trump’s adolescence is of an earlier vintage.
Here’s the link to Mackey’s article if folks want to read it:
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/26/russian-intelligence-hack-dnc-nsa-know-snowden-says/
Continuing with the analogy, while Snowden did, indeed, provide all of us with actual proof of the NSA’s size and capability, he did not provide any proof – you know, evidence – that their junk was functional. It’s not hard to see that. You just have to read with comprehension. Well, and a bit of honesty.
In fact, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper called it “hyperventilation” back in July. If you have proof he’s changed that story, then please link to it (srsly, you’ve been here long enough to know how to use blockquotes and links). In absence of that proof I prefer to think that the NSA isn’t all that into in democratic party fetishes about Russia. It just doesn’t get a rise out of them. Of course, they’ve always been a bit more discreet about their orgies than some others involved in these affairs.
The rest of the assertions in that piece are basically provided by groups who, like Trump’s wives, have a, shall we say, *vested interest* in making the characteristics of the anatomy in question look as, um, *formidable* as possible. I think that deserves at least as much skepticism as Trump rightfully got when he stood behind that podium, fully clothed, bragging about his dick attributes.
This is good, Pedinska: a response to Craig that is both lucid and entertaining, while not requiring a reader to review his. . . umm. . . “original” post.
Yeah I’m glad Pedinska still has a willingness to debunk his word salads. I stopped responding to his posts when, after repeated requests, he refused to learn how to employ blockquotes or links to his purported proof for his assertions. It really is emblematic of his lack of intellectual honesty and/or lack of good faith in attempting to engage anyone here. Best guess, he’s either a bored old crank, or he’s being paid.
Well that and I find his “deep deep thoughts” on the world to be about as important as possibly dryer lint or the hair that collects in your shower drain–a nuisance to be ignored until it stops the dryer from running or your drain clogs. Nothing more.
i’m still waiting for the block quotes master class
@ john
That thing you’re using to type your comments and see them appear here is called either a computer or a smart phone. Simply Google “html text formatting” no need for me to teach you guys a darn thing.
It isn’t really rocket science and most grade schoolers these days have a basic grasp of it. But not Craig apparently, thus my conclusion about his motivations.
So Schultz,which side of the electoral fence do you reside this cycle,Trump the renegade,or HRC,Bush’s best bud?
????
pedinska
Must feel good to have some positive feedback from Doug. No one kisses Mona’s ass with as much passion. Looks like you are going to get the same massage…..
Jealousy becomes you.
Well, let’s see, Craig:
Brevity is a positive development. Keep working on that.
“Looks like” is really a poor choice of words in in this case. We might say that a baby “looks like” his father, but it would be better English, here, to say, “it appears that” Pedinska will be receiving the same sort of massage.
Also, and I know this is a tough one, the ellipsis is best used when either omitting unnecessary words from a quote or to indicate missing words where the meaning is to be understood by context, from convention, common knowledge, etc. In English, the convention is to use three periods, or a preformed glyph if the writing device supplies one.
Don’t be discouraged. You’re doing very well for one whose first language is Saladish.
At almost every alt media (although I am not sure if the Intercept is alt media anymore) a journalist now must first start saying something nasty about Trump, before he or she can write about the Democrats. This even applies for Glenn Greenwald who starts this article with
“DONALD TRUMP, FOR reasons I’ve repeatedly pointed out, is an extremist, despicable, and dangerous candidate, and his almost-certain humiliating defeat is less than a month away”
This reminds me of the days where I had to say Grace before dinner. Or when I read Ali Baba and the forty thieves. You know, where open Sesame means that a journalist is only allowed to enter the arena of political debate when he or she utters the magic words first: “extremist, despicable, dangerous candidate… Trump.”
How pityfull to notice this type of tribal behavior, even from a great journalist like Glenn Greenwald.
Good point.
The fear is that one’s own allies will turn against you if it appears that you are criticizing your own candidate without first criticizing her opponent.
It’s not unfounded.
Despite the obvious leftwing (e.g., socialist) gist of my comments on Huffington Post, I’ve been accused of being a Fox dupe for criticizing Clinton.
It’s not surprising that Greenwald protects himself. Just read some of the ignorant posts on this thread.
Glenn, as you well know, all of this is about preparing the upcoming wars with Russia, Iran, and China, not a Cold War, but a real, live, hot one.
The CIA/MIC and other elementsof Deep State merely intended to use whoever the Dem or Repub winner is, but didn’t expect a brash outsider like Trump to be around. They have infinite funds, power and influence so people like your above-named experts and journalists are easily bought.
Hillary is merely the ventiloquist’s dummy/bullhorn as Bush, Carson, et al would have been. Trump would have taken them on; Stein would, but was never in the real race.
We’re headed full speed for democratic fascism and WW III, because the mindset of those who decide is the Vietnam, Arab Spring, Iraq, Afghanistan one. They will be dead wrong, as usual. And, as usual, they think they will be spared.
I highly recommend the best book (by far) on how we got here and how and where we’re going: DEFYING HITLER by Sebastian Haffner.
oh brother, please just give up and kill yourself or lock you bunker door … or both
I notice the zionists are promoting that book,which means it’s garbage.
Trump is a horrific authoritarian in every way, save for the fact that he is *not* trying to start a war with Russia.
And Hillary, OMG… What a terrible time for a hard-core Wilsonian Internationalist with horrible judgement; who didn’t know what (c) meant for her entire tenure at State — and didn’t think to ask; who never learns from her mistakes; who believes along with Bubba that all Great Presidents are War Presidents; who thinks she prevented a civil war in Libya with her Smart Power (???!!!); who has been poking sticks at the Bear for years; who has a history of being extraordinarily careless with National Security documents for her own convenience; who has vast lapses in memory pertaining to what she did and didn’t do at State; who thinks she is Emperor of the World and has the right to invade sovereign nations willy nilly — to be the likely victor in November.
Meanwhile geopolitical analysts are warning about the increasing prospects of war with Russia. And why wouldn’t Russia be preparing to defend itself with the pathological war-monger Hillary mere inches away from seizing the Ring of Power…?
?O?b?i?-?w?a?n? ?K?e?n?o?b?i? Gary Johnson and William Weld, you’re our only hope.
https://geopoliticalfutures.com/germany-warns-of-the-danger-of-war/
Wiki leaks has not been proven untrustworthy. If it is to be used as a source, one should always check their facts with the actual source. This includes Trump, Clinton, and any media outlets who choose to quote them.
This is dangerous.
During the election of 1800 the Governors of Va (WVa) and Pa were prepared and threatening to call out the militia (armed civilians) if the Federalists tampered w/ the election of Thomas Jefferson or Aaron Burr.
The U.S. Const. (if it still exists) was subject to the Revolutionary rights of the people. However, note that there is no right to use force when the government is chosen via “constitutionally elected” process.
Arguably fraud or violence would not be considered “constitutionally elected”
With so much fraud or apparent fraud in elections what should a people do? Go to war w/ Russia or w/ itself?
Page 1-1…
http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/Repository/Materials/COIN-FM3-24.pdf
Creating the illusion of “legitimacy.” (That’s why the media is so PRO HILLARY and she stays at home most days.)
1-3. Political power is the central issue in insurgencies and counterinsurgencies; each side aims to get the
people to ACCEPT its governance or authority as LEGITIMATE. Insurgents use all available tools—political (including
diplomatic), informational (including appeals to religious, ethnic, or ideological beliefs), military,
and economic—to overthrow the existing authority. This authority may be an established government or
an interim governing body. Counterinsurgents, in turn, use all instruments of national power to sustain the
established or emerging government and reduce the likelihood of another crisis emerging.
1-4. Long-term success in COIN depends on the people taking charge of their own affairs and CONSENTING TO the government’s RULE. Achieving this condition requires the government to eliminate as many causes
of the insurgency as feasible. THIS CAN INCLUDE ELIMINATING THOSE EXTREMISTS WHOSE BELIEFS PREVENT THEN FROM EVER RECONCILING WITH THE GOVERNMENT.
AKA “DEPLORABLES”…. Hillary intends to Kill Trump Supporters.
If that’s what I think, Bacevich described it as mindless fucking drivel. And wasn’t that the same Gen. who gave secrets away who authored it? My goodness.
Eichenwald (sp?) was harping on this on NPR this morning as well, and several news outlets are reporting as fact that Russia is attempting to manipulate US elections (by exposing Democrats manipulating the election). Mr. Greenwald, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for retaining your integrity. The GOP has gone unhinged, and the Democrats are happily taking their place as the party of complete bullshit and deceit. Please keep up the excellent work. If it wasn’t for you, The Intercept, and Chris Hedges, I would be losing my mind.
Would you like to really know what’s going on??? This will prevent you from losing your mind — which, BTW, is the GOAL of this operation. IMHO, both parties are guilty.
http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/Repository/Materials/COIN-FM3-24.pdf
This is a game of wits and will. You’ve got to be learning and adapting constantly to survive. General Peter J. Schoomaker, USA, 2004
” It was just Sputnik misreporting the email. Once Sputnik realized that its article misattributed the text to Blumenthal, it took it down.”
Have the Clintons gone after this obviously pro-Putin statement yet?
Trump is right about one thing: Putin is a better leader than any of the clowns in the White House, or running for it, so much so that he gets credit for things he doesn’t even do.
It just dawned on me this morning as to “what the hell is going on” in America, right now. An epiphany of softs. Here it is:
SUMMARY OF THIS ENTIRE ELECTION: “COIN”…
Interesting Project Name, no? That’s the reason for all the blatant criminality and false flags perpetrated during this election. Even rigging elections is fair game.
Would you like to know more?
http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/Repository/Materials/COIN-FM3-24.pdf
The world has been swimming in insurgency / counterinsurgency for a thousand years. It’s the very nature of politics & global business.
To point – A government (power structure) that doesn’t control its own population first cannot project that influence elsewhere let alone stay in power. It’s own citizenry then are it’s primary opponent if those in control of the populace wish to protect their wealth & position.
Yes it has. But, in a democratic society, it’s *supposed* to be the battle of ideologies.
You add false flags, violence, Black Lives Matter, the KKK, vote fraud, election rigging, and blah,blah,blah… You’ve just crossed the proverbial line.
That’s what’s going on here. Now, add the US Const to the mix and you can call “call forth the Militia” and add FEMA camps, too.
Think about it. Don’t dismiss what’s going on. We are not Afghanistan… but, the powers that be want to turn us into Afghanistan.
Read it. Take the time.
PS… CORRECTION: I said, “battle of ideologies”… I meant to say, “issues” and the vote would decide priorities.
Ideological battles are the basis of unrest, violence, and civil wars.
That’s what’s been set up by the establishment in this election cycle.
Without a doubt.
Can you use the term ’Powers that Be’ and believe we live in a Democracy. We’re no more and never have been a democracy than the former USSR was ’socialist’ if the record was ever set straight.
China an Authoritarian state (that tried it’s military against the populace) and other countries are increasingly making us look like a tired third world country.
Forget COIN – ’Bread & Circus’ is the ages old proven method, and it’s effective.
You can’t forget COIN when you consider the blatant Tulsa Crutcher shooting, Charlotte, Dallas, etc. Then, Hillary says, “These acts are unbearable; but, they need to be intolerable.” HINT HINT.
Those are examples of the violent “agitators” as Marx described. In fact, you could even call them assassination and/or suicide missions.
Sad, but true.
Bread and Circus is what we’re used to. This is different. The lies and rhetoric are unrelenting. In fact, consider too that movies like Snowden have been totally drowned out with these events. “What’s the name of that movie?” “I don’t know.”
Notice any talk about Senate,House and local races?
Not a thing.
Vote who is in out,and the bastards will start listening.
>>> Notice any talk about Senate,House and local races?
Not a thing.Vote who is in out,and the bastards will start listening.<<<
I wish it WERE that easy.
Plainly and bluntly (AND I REALLY HATE TO ADMIT IT):… Dictatorship may be coming to America. The only question will be this: Is it gonna be a "good guy" or the Global Mafia?
Thanks for keeping the flame of real journalism burning, Glenn, at least for a little while longer. It’s amazing how refreshing honesty can seem.
Eichenwald was on NPR this morning (Wednesday, Oct 12), saying that Trump’s quoting of “Russian propaganda” was very disturbing.
I’m supporting Hillary, but this sychophancy on the part of some press outlets is disappointing — but hardly novel — behavior.
Keep up the good work, Intercept.
I wish it were true to say that we are all ‘supporters’ of whom we choose to vote for, but at this point I think it’s clear, (made so by the two absurd choices ‘placed’ in front of us) that we are only being manipulated for our consent.
Total horseshite.The only one manipulating the electorate are the Hell Bitch and her zionist media.
Anyone who refuses to see that reality is a really dumb person,or just another serial liar.
Trump is a lifelong moderate,but of course the lobotomized are blinded by the light of BS,or their own prejudices.
heh heh hillary lied again when she objected to Mr. Trumps trash talk.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3833682/From-Beyonce-Jay-Z-Chance-Rapper-Pusha-T-Meet-Hillary-s-rap-star-supporters-deplorable-lyrics-say-WORSE-Trump-s-hot-mic-comments.html
2-faced double-talking hillary. Maybe she paid some folks in the Ukraine to hack her lousy server so she could get sympathy and run AGAINST Trump rather than FOR Bernie’s agenda (whom she also screwed reeeeeeal gooooooood) because she has NO DECISIVE PLAN.
what are you on
The tweets seem over the top, but the Newsweek article about it is quite compelling. I think there is, in fact, evidence that Russians participated in the hacking of the emails, and that the Russian propaganda machine posts misleading stories about Putin’s enemies. There are also indications that Trump admires Putin and that his campaign staff, at least, follows blogs and media that repeat Russian propaganda. All of this is legitimately troubling.
I think, in fact, that without more evidence than what I think, what I think counts only as evidence of what I think.
well thought out.
Succinct and the truth,as some nitwits opinions are their own,and its obvious anyone who plays up Russian interference in our elections is just being a partial twit for the evil Hell Bitch.
Trumps says she was on drugs at debates;Well,the second one she seemed less animated and robotic,but the first she was definitely on something,with the blinking eyes and stare.Adderall?
And he says there is a giant conspiracy to deny him the POTUS.
Of course there is,every day we are inundated with the zionist propaganda from serial lying mole traitor scum,and their sucking tit whores like the HB.
And he’s packing them in,unlike the evil ones no shows.
At least concerning the emails Doc, you certainly would be willing to believe your heroic Snowden (and probably even Intercept staff writer, Robert Mackey) right? Edward Snowden also added his expertise on the subject indicating that US Intelligence has the capability of tracing the hackers. Additionally, Robert Mackey presented further evidence for Russia being behind the hacked emails (“If Russian Intelligence Did Hack the DNC, the NSA Would Know, Snowden Says”, 7-16-2016, The Intercept).
Mackey has accumulated quite a bit of other evidence as well. And Putin has made it quite clear that he supports Trump. Indeed, he has had some trouble interaction with Hillary Clinton (see Mona’s posts concerning Russia’s fear of Clinton).
“……..Vladimir Putin –
“….. “He is a very flamboyant man, very talented, no doubt about that,” Putin said. “He is an absolute leader of the presidential race, as we see it today. He says that he wants to move to another level of relations, to a deeper level of relations with Russia. How can we not welcome that? Of course we welcome it.”…..”
Please elucidate your reasons for Russophobia?
Their religion,race,economic system and government are mainstream European norms,although religious wise they seem to respect God more than us,so what motivates your dislike?
Of course your brain could be fogged by MSM BS,as Putin was not friendly towards the MSMs co thieves and scoundrels union with the criminal oligarchs,as any rational national leader would be towards criminals raping the Russian economy and people.
Unlike here in America,where oligarchs rape US with impunity,in healthcare,media,insurance,banksters,and the MIC.
So whats the beef?
You like to be taken advantage of,a masochist?
Framing the deceased next-to-the-last Empire on earth for the media/propaganda-sector’s deceit of this first truly ‘global’ and first effectively ‘disguised’ Empire on earth — the Disguised Global Capitalist EMPIRE nominally HQed in, and only ‘posing’ as the country PKA (previously known as) America!
Has there been a press release by the country pka america stating it prefers to be called: “the country”?
.. and is this an elaborate stunt by “the country previously known as” to get out of some contract? or perhaps some compact between itself and the people?
Mr. Greenwald
“……..But while Donald Trump’s candidacy poses grave dangers, so does group-think righteousness, particularly when it engulfs those with the greatest influence. The problem is that none of this is going to vanish after the election. This election-year machine that has been constructed based on elite unity in support of Clinton — casually dismissing inconvenient facts as fraudulent to make them disappear, branding critics and adversaries as tools or agents of an Enemy Power bent on destroying America — is a powerful one. As is seen here, it is capable of implanting any narrative, no matter how false; demonizing any critic, no matter how baseless; and riling up people to believe they’re under attack…….”
And what gives the Clinton machine the credibility to distort and lie to further their political agenda in this case is the very real probability that Russia hacked the DNC and provided the hacked emails to WikiLeaks to influence a US election. US intelligence believes with a “high degree of confidence” that Russia was behind the hacking of the DNC emails.
Edward Snowden also added his expertise on the subject indicating that US Intelligence has the capability of tracing the hackers. Additionally, Robert Mackey presented further evidence for Russia being behind the hacked emails (“If Russian Intelligence Did Hack the DNC, the NSA Would Know, Snowden Says”, 7-16-2016, The Intercept).
What is even more dangerous is WikiLeaks purposely influencing an election by accepting the emails from Russian Intelligence and publishing the information prior to the election. Certainly, it is well established that Julian Assange is “fixated” on US policy. The New York Times ran a story questioning the relationship between Russian Intelligence and WikiLeaks where the intelligence agency releases hacked information to western journalists to further their political agenda – and Putin clearly supports Trump over HRC who he has clashed with on several occasions (“How Russia Often Benefits When Julian Assange Reveals the West’s Secrets”, NYT, 8-31, 2016):
“……..From the cramped confines of the Ecuadorean Embassy in London, where he was granted asylum four years ago amid a legal imbroglio, Mr. Assange proffered a vision of America as superbully: a nation that has achieved imperial power by proclaiming allegiance to principles of human rights while deploying its military-intelligence apparatus in “pincer” formation to “push” countries into doing its bidding, and punishing people like him who dare to speak the truth…….Notably absent from Mr. Assange’s analysis, however, was criticism of another world power, Russia, or its president, Vladimir V. Putin, who has hardly lived up to WikiLeaks’ ideal of transparency. Mr. Putin’s government has cracked down hard on dissent — spying on, jailing, and, critics charge, sometimes assassinating opponents while consolidating control over the news media and internet. If Mr. Assange appreciated the irony of the moment — denouncing censorship in an interview on Russia Today, the Kremlin-controlled English-language propaganda channel — it was not readily apparent……..”
The picture presented by the NYT is that Assange is driven by a political agenda. This selective reporting and criticism of US policy is fairly typical of the articles published at the Intercept despite a large budget and employing 30(+) journalists. WikiLeaks may have preferences for an election and selectively release information about candidate X to influence the election. Once again, this exposes the dangers of advocacy journalism which, in this case, could influence the democratic process. Furthermore, the release of information by whistleblowers to a single source (such as WikiLeaks) gives that source a monopoly on the type of information released. Where are the checks and balances against this possibility (or even probability in this case)? As you have said numerous times Mr. Greenwald, all journalists are advocates.
But do they have the capability of telling the truth? Personally I trust the NSA, but I always ask them for the evidence. How can we be sure that a few Republicans didn’t infiltrate the NSA and use it to conduct the hack on the DNC?
“……..How can we be sure that a few Republicans didn’t infiltrate the NSA and use it to conduct the hack on the DNC?……”
I guess my first thought is because they are Republicans. Think old white guys not very tech savvy. My God Benito, think George W. Bush. Was his IQ even above 50?
I didn’t mean to imply that George W. Bush did the hacking. But he said, “Behind every wire & machine must be a teacher and a student who know how to use that technology to help develop a child’s mind, skills and character”. So it’s possible he developed a team of young, technology savvy Republicans and we are only now reaping the whirlwind. Politicians, regardless of their IQ, seldom stop to think of the dangers of educating the general public.
Fair enough Benito, but I stand by what I said and add: none of my teachers were capable of educating the public – but that should be obvious….
Hillaryous;Quite obvious.Was it the teachers or your stubborn refusal to learn?
>”I didn’t mean to imply that George W. Bush did the hacking.”
I should hope not. That would be worse than Glenn saying Trump was heading for an almost certain crushing humiliating defeat.
You really do need some sensitivity training. Putin would be so disappointed – and he could be reading your comment even as I type this post.
I can sense the slightest human suffering … craig./
Trumps America First and border control are not to GGs liking.
Everyone has an agenda.
If Trump defeats this outrageous attempt to fix the election for the Hell Bitch,America will celebrate it like the second American revolution,this time from zion and not the crown.
What gratitude.Sheesh.
The shrub gave the Israelis the road map to hell for their total revision of him as zero to hero for 9-11.
You would think you zionists wouldn’t diss him,but of course as he was just a goyim tool,he gets the finger.
If you stop to think seriously about it, the NSA and other agencies are staffed by world-class computer-savvy techies.
They may or may not be Republicans, but they sure as hell don’t oppose the National Security State.
There you go again..
is the very real probability that Russia hacked the DNC?
You need to lay off the your crack pipe.
Influencing elections?
Ah, you mean like nuttinyahu coming to the US to lecture our congress or his cohort flittering about florida to campaign for romney?
Snowden and Mackey have evidence that russia did it?
1. Snowden said the Russians did not hack anything b/c if they had, the NSA would know. But they have NO EVIDENCE.
2. Mackey said so? Did you even bother to confirm that with your ouija board
By the way – Did you bother to even find out what operating system was hacked. Because if it was a microsoft windows system, high degree of probability it can be hacked by anyone anywhere.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-attack-can-steal-your-username-password-and-other-logins/
I saw a report that said you are a horse’s ass. But that doesn’t mean you really are altho there is a “high degree of probablity” that you are.
DON’T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT.
have a nice day.
After Iraq, any evidence-free assertion from US intelligence has exactly zero value. Actually, it’s worse. Presuming the opposite of what they say is the most rational thing to do.
That may have some truth Jose, but Snowden (who you likely believe is a hero) DOES have credibility which is exactly why Mackey and I both used his expertise on intelligence to back up the US intelligence statement.
After Iraq, any evidence-free assertion from US intelligence has exactly zero value.
Well, everything is relative. I’d argue that they place some value on the sight of Craig’s ass bobbing up and down as he does his periodic genuflections. The only question is how much.
Pedinska
It is so nice to see you around here. You just don’t seem to post as much as in the past. I certainly hope this is not just a short visit. You know you are welcome, right?
As you so frequently demonstrate, being welcome is not a necessary criteria for posting here.
But thanks just the same. It’s nice that someone cares, even if the sincerity and/or trajectory of such sentiments may be questionable.
Hey Craig,
go back to your voluminous posts because they are easiest to completely ignore. When you write a short, sweet, post I can’t help not noticing some of the words you type.
xo
Hi Glenn, I’ve always been a big admirer of your work, both here and at the Guardian. But in this case, you, and wikileaks, totally, 100% need to hold your fire on Clinton… until November 9. I think you know the reason: Donald Trump is a frightful, enormous danger to the US and the world. Clinton herself said it remarkably aptly recently in the NYT: “I’m the Last Thing Standing Between You and the Apocalypse.”
There’s simply no denying that this is true. Clinton may be a corrupt corporate shill, but al least she’s more or less sane (crucially she acknowledges the threat of Climate Change). A Trump presidency would be such an unmitigated disaster, and he will destroy so many millions if not billions of people’s lives, that apocalypse is very likely to be the appropriate word to use. So lay off. For a month.
Glenn’s not the droid you’re looking for. Move along.
But in this case, you, and wikileaks, totally, 100% need to hold your fire on Clinton… until November 9.
What you are arguing for is keeping the American electorate ignorant about pertinent facts having to do with candidates for the highest office in the world.
I would be willing to bet that at some point in your life you have also bemoaned the fact that that same electorate is so ignorant/apathetic etc.
Were you ok with the fact that the NYT witheld the truth about George Bush authorizing the NSA’s secret surveillance of American citizens (among others)? If so, why should we be any less informed as to the actions of either of the current candidates?
(crucially she acknowledges the threat of Climate Change)
Don’t make me laugh. Her campaign coffers are overflowing with money from the fossil fuel industry and she has said nothing as peaceful Native American activist are arrested by police that look like an invading army for the violence of praying at the Dakota Access Pipeline protests.
Look, jerks, if you can’t win with the info out then you don’t deserve to win.
People like you are exactly what make Democrats in the White House a bigger danger at this point. Trump might be a bigger threat than Clinton; when we include all you people as well, I’m not sure who is a bigger threat.
You don’t deserve to win. What you want is pathetic, volunteer tyranny.
(Oh & it’s just till the election is it? As if. It’s been 8 years of this “lay off, think of the Republicans!” shit already.)
Brilliant rebuttal and reporting of this propaganda circus. I could not figure out how Kurt got from point A all the way to G with little or nothing in between. This is what happens when the fourth estate is so firmly in the camp and service of one political group. Trump goes on holiday and news media credibility dies. Keep up the good work
Thank you for this investigative journalism at its best. And yes, the role of Twitter is highlighted well too. Would a majority of journalists and party members (in Germany too) investigate and research, a lot of articles during the last years wouldn’t have been published, and many mainstream media would not – and often with good reason – accused of losing standards and of being, for example in the yellow press, “embedded”. Your article made my day, thank you very much.
Wishful thinking by supporters of Mrs Clinton, eager to deceive themselves, was no doubt part of the reason.
But the model of Wikileaks represents a threat to the mainstream media and their role as gatekeepers of information. So the mainstream media is rightly trying to kill it.
The New York Times has tremendous power. It can start a war by distributing false stories about weapons of mass destruction. It can sit on a politically sensitive story like warrantless wiretapping for over a year, to help elect their preferred presidential candidate. Wikeleaks leaks by contrast, publishes original documents which can be scrutinized and verified by the general public. Mrs. Clinton herself can challenge the accuracy of any of the e-mails published, if she wishes to do so. So the system represented by Wikileaks is much more robust and transparent than that represented by the New York Times.
It therefore presents a great danger, not only to the New York Times, but to the elite for whom the Times was created to serve and protect. So the journalists re-tweeting lies about Wikileaks are simply doing their duty. I certainly can’t blame them for trying to ensure their own survival . A rat, or even a journalist, is entitled to self defense. Asking them to vet something as true before they re-tweet it is unreasonable. They don’t even apply that standard to the long form pieces they write.
“The system represented by WL is much more robust [..] than the WSJs.”
Or The Intercepts, for that matter.
Hi Glenn,
thanks for that. I was on the brink of despair. I felt The Intercept was becoming something close to Pravda or a commercial channel.
Make this piece a mandatory read for all of your wannabe journos like Zaid and Mackey (amongst others) please. The partisan tone to everything they write is not only blatantly obvious, but also damaging to this fine institutions reputation.
I haven’t been in here for 10 days since I could not bear indulge any more of that crap.
one or two writers here may cast a light on events that paint a picture that is disagreeable however, on the plus side
1. it alerts persons like myself what others perceive because i dont otherwise know.
2. it gives myself a chance to provide refutation where needed.
3. Plus the impartial aspect provide by contrary viewpoints is an antidote against being branded a radical rag.
No Fears.
Everything Glenn says may be right, but i can understand why the journo suspected a connection here. If an email containing your article got hacked and leaked, expressly to harm Clinton, and was then swiftly misdescribed on a Russian govt site and then cited in a Trump speech, wouldn’t you wonder if something was going on? Especially when Trump praises Putin so much. I’m not saying you’d be right. But no sensible unbiased person could deny that there is evidence Russia is working for a Trump victory with its hacking efforts. Fair, Glenn?
So you have evidence?
That’s terrific, I’d suggest you tried to publish that, you’d be helping out a lot of “journalists” to back their and Hilary’s claims.
I suggest you reread Glenn’s piece, too.
I think it a lot can be said about the character of an internet writer/celebrity by the types of readers he or she draws as evidenced by the comments.
Ew.
Attacking the readers is a low blow. Isn’t there anything in the article you can criticize?
By that standard, nothing with a comment section would pass muster. That said, what, specifically, in the article do you challenge?
Yeah, but we’re open-minded around here, so we won’t give you the bum’s rush and leave you sprawling in the Internet gutter outside the portal. We’ll just mock you mercilessly.
So, do stick around. World and national news is depressing and we need the interludes to blow off steam.
Don’t be so harsh on yourself Rebecca.
Oh, and one other thing I would like this mention is this Eichenwald guy is an embarrassment to the journalistic community.
Writing ‘Ur’ instead of ‘you’re’ like a 10-year old girl, calling a male a ‘confidante’, and the complete lack of punctuation would just seem pathetic and shameful to me if I were actually being paid to write things.
I suppose the bar is being lowered just about everywhere.
Thanks to Greenwald, the Internet Peoples are harassing him and his wife and have been reporting to the cyber police for consequences.
wallstreet thieves want to steal everything – especially freedom of voice, print and ear.
wallstreet thieves who get protection from the f…b…i… are concerned about the goodness and honesty of wikileaks. Thieves really hate being called out for the thieves they are.
PS – no wars for wallstreet.
Greenwald wrote an article refuting what Eichenwald wrote. This is not only permissible, it is desirable as it gets multiple analyses in the public view so that they can verify truth. That is the function of journalism.
Greenwald is not responsible for what other adults write elsewhere. No one is. He did nothing to rally anyone to do anything. Threats to Eichenwald’s wife, if they happened (I don’t deny them, just haven’t personally seen them) are bullshit. Responsibility for them belongs to the person making the threat and those people should be dealt with according to the policies of the venues where they were made.
True threats to Eichenwald should be dealt with similarly. BUT my ears/eyes perk up whenever I hear/see the word harassment because much of what these pampered Doyennes of “Democracy” call harassment is actually just regular people rightfully calling them on their own unsupported bullshit.
The day when they get to publish utter crap and baskets of supercilious lies from their lofty positions without challenge are long gone. They need to just move into the new era and get over themselves or retire to a well-heeled corner and self-pityingly mutter to themselves and their loved ones (if they’re willing to tolerate it).
Trump is the worst. People tell me how terrible he is and I just smile and nod my head and think about how I can’t wait to vote for him.
Vote for him and his malignant narcissistic personality disorder? Of which you have zero ideas how dangerous it is, considering that is exactly the kind of disorder tyrants, dictators and serial killers have, and that most of the woes of this world end up coming from, that’s really sad of you. But at least you are aware enough to feel ashamed of your choice since you said yourself you hide it behind a smile rather than dare trying to defend such an indefensible position. Not saying that Clinton is a great choice…At all. But of the two, you’re choosing the one that would be the most damaging at the end of it all.
Good.
I don’t care about him or his policies, as long as he makes you the maddest.
That’s my main motive in voting for Trump. I want to see leftists cry for at least four years.
Fastest way to tell if you are dealing with a conservative idiot is
when they claim that leftists support Hillary.
This site is over your head, maybe try something simpler like The National Review or Breitbart.
These people aren’t leftists,they are middle of the road illiberal hypocrites.
True leftists would never vote HB.They will vote Stein,or not at all.
As an non ideologue,I’m all in for Donald Trump,as I see no ideological idiocy from him,just American nationalism,anathema to the zionist enemy,whose candidate HRC,is the worst choice in our history of Presidential elections.
Imagine a world where the zionists have to deal with their myriad problems of non humanistic attitudes by themselves,wo our muscle and power to back up their criminality.
Peace at last,or the end of zion.Hoo hah!
lol. Some poster remarked that sending Trump to washington would be like sending a tornado or something there to shake things up. I like the idea. If he gets in, i will look forward to the audit of the wallstreet not-really-federal-property-but-rothschild reserve.
Let’s consider again which candidate is reckless and dangerous with language…. the ‘smart experienced’ one who, to gain an edge is an already won campaign, openly accuses Russia of acts of war, or the one that bragged in vulgar terms about what women let him get away with 10 years ago?
What women “let him get away with?” You ARE the problem.
Typical idiot remark;If these women were outraged,there was plenty of time to file charges,and the fact that these corrupt pos hell bot wackos are now coming out of the woodwork,only exposes the Hillaryous ones intentions of demonization,to obscure all her obvious and criminal dealings.
The MSM will never ever recover any credibility from this Zionist News Network(ZNN)of lies and innuendo.
Oh,the poor groupies,they don’t like getting groped.sheesh.
Already won?I think you and GG have misconceptions of the American electorate.They have had enough of all this shite,and Trump is our only hope to end it.
I’d counter that this hysteria is a sign they don’t believe she is a lock at all.
I’ve probably seen that image (or some variation of it) of Trump and Putin kissing around a dozen time in the last week or so. Obviously the intent is to impugn the masculinity of both men and to mock them for being ‘gay’ for each other. Are homosexuals not offended by this? The implication is quite clear and pretty insulting to me, and I’m likely one of the “deplorable” people referenced by HRC for having the temerity for not wanting the entire country to turn into New Mexico.
Doubt if Glenn checks the comments, but maybe another gay person can tell me why this sort of derisive ‘meme’ propaganda gets a pass while idiots posting cartoon frogs are demonized.
I get the bias and I applauded Greenwald for owning up to the fact that the media wantonly supresses negative Hillary stories while hyping up tabloid garbage about Trump (honestly now, has anyone in the throes of instant attraction and obvious sexual energy asked for a written form of consent before they could ‘grab the p*ssy’? Maybe draw up a pre-nup and get it notarized before leaning in for a kiss?) Surely even the notion of impropriety in a private conversation with some trust-fund Bushie scum is a far more egregious sin than a DINO in the pocket of the architects of 9/11 and ISIS, as well as the big banks that charlatans like my once-favorite muckraker Matt Taibbi used to rail against. Any further literary indictments he brings against the financial sector and their rampant obscenity now will just ring hollow to anyone that’s been paying attention.
I’m writing this from a homeless shelter; a combination of poor decisions and good old-fashioned bad luck landed me here. My arrangement here has given me an inordinate amount of time and resources to peruse and get the story as the storytellers from both sides frame it.I don’t blame anyone for my predicament and I honestly doubt that even if any and all negative Clinton stories (and damn, there’s a lot out there) were actually brought to the public, it likely would not influence their vote at all. It just seems like such a waste of time when much of the population is comprised of figurative zombies. I’d slap a DNR on all of humanity if I had power of attorney.
People are fat and happy and comfy. Until the rug gets pulled out from under them, they’ll vote for the status quo. Heil Hillary.
please stop making light of sexual assault.
I enjoyed this comment just as much as the article. Hope your situation improves soon!
Thank you Mr.Greenwald for the only reasonable article I’ve read regarding this whole spectacle. I’d like to share this with others, but I don’t want to get labeled a Russian agitator.
Lose the accent and you’ll be safe.
Yeah, the accent can be a killer.
My husband who, as you know, is from the Czech Republic and is a naturalized citizen, is nicknamed “Comrade” at work. Why? Well, the accent for one thing….and his constant questioning of the propaganda for the rest.
People really don’t like being told about the wool over their eyes from someone who actually lived the experience and managed to learn from it. :-s
:)
Glenn,
You performed SOME worthy service with regard to Snowden (query: whether he still wishes he had followed your path). Beyond that you are just an ongoing self-aggrandizing fellow bored in Brazil. You need to cut back on your verbiage and chill till the election is over.
I have a great idea, let’s give the KGB murderer a cute little red reset button like the one in the Staples commercial… Excellent idea madam secretary… rofl, what ridiculous incompetents. Putin started planning his expansion to the former Soviet borders at that very moment. lmfao. Putin is probably just hoping Trump gets elected now so he can consolidate his gains and doesn’t have to actually go through with conquering Europe.
I can see why she killed you.
Here’s the truth about Russia and Putin…. [see below] — about Turkey/Syria, the Maginot Line of WW III, NATO HQ in Turkey, natural gas to Europe, and Putin’s Palace.
Look at a map. It’s obvious why Turkey has been “turned.” Putin really is defensive because he’s got to keep US cruise missiles out of the Black Sea. Range of these missiles get to the heart of the Russian Federation.
The Black Sea is like Cuba to the USA.
What qualifications does one need to know so much about Putin and so little about everything else?
As Mona noted above, this is a voice from beyond with, apparently, a nicely oiled Ouija board. However, the communication equipment is only as good as the input it receives and rotting brain matter just isn’t a good base for writing material no matter how you, um, slice it.
Let Europe worry about Europe,and let America worry about America.
Europeans made their own bed,as we have here,and the only solution is ending the Zionist News Network,which obviously counts you as a duped success story.
The GOP controls both chambers. That makes them the dominate party. How can a journalist know so little about the topic they are writing or mislead purposely? WTF
You’re really just writing bullshit media now I guess. Do you understand how the House of Representative investigations work? They are just a vote with no due process.
When you can audit someones ENTIRE like just with a vote and no need for evidence you are going to ALWAYS find a couple procedural law ‘crimes’. That doesn’t mean they are real crimes because it takes intent and a court to determine that, not a journalist.
I don’t know if you guys are still confused about the email or still want to pretend Hillary controlled foreign policy under Obama, but these are just really not intellectual arguments.
I thought you were more of an intellectual, but I don’t see how you could write an article like this and know that much about US government or politics.
You’re being ridiculous. Why would Hillary need a Russian hacker plot to beat Donald Trump, there are thousands of people with horrible first hand accounts of Donald Trump and his own words should have disqualified him years ago.
You are being dishonest which really just solidified the idea that you, wikileaks and Snowden cannot be trusted and never should have been.
When Bush did 100 times worse there was no 50+ investigations to desperately dig up the one or two crimes that might be there, but AGAIN. Crime is about intent, not merely procedure. Hillary would have to have been purposely sharing info for her to face criminal charges in this scenario. It also turned out to very few emails.
The claims the DNC rigged the election was just more TOTAL exaggeration and sensationalism. You found emails of people sharing person opinions and blow it up with an unfounded conspiracy theory.
Wikileaks is not an honest organization or at least Assange is now. You can just a person isn’t all that honest usually. He markets these leaks like they are HIS stories or something and that’s weird, that’s not what WikiLeaks was supposed to be. Wikileaks is now a new outlet more than just a place to safely leak info.
You can’t hype and create narrative and then pretend you are also unbiased. Assange and really Snowden too have tried to hype up the leaks. It’s not up to THEM to interpret these things for the public. It’s up to the public to determine if they even care about the leaked info enough to be outraged. You can’t think that we all want to grant Snowden or Assange the right to influence the US. We want voters alone to do that on their own without a narrative. That’s the WHOLE point of journalists remaining unbiased.
Something you have all failed at horribly.
Thank you.
Crime is about intent, not merely procedure.
Of course. This is why the Thought Crime Police are so prevalent and the prisons are filled with people who hate-wished someone dead. Of course, one wonders why they need all those officers performing stop and frisk. After all, if they can determine intent so well it would seem that actual laying on of hands could then be relegated to the faith healers.
We want voters alone to do that on their own without a narrative.
Could you please be a bit more specific about this we you reference? As an actual member of the voting electorate who still has a brain (please don’t tell anyone) I’d like to know when they’re around so that I have a better chance of concealing my criminal thoughts.
That’s the WHOLE point of journalists remaining unbiased.
Something you have all failed at horribly.
We shall all gather, heads hung in shame, as we ponder the terrible violation you’ve been subject to here of having to actually read a – gasp! – narrative so horribly biased you might actually start thinking for yourself. A terrible wrong, indeed.
NPR had something about this, wasn’t really paying attention because I thought it was BS. The Democrats have lots of money but don’t want to spend it on security. That’s the problem. I thought we were done with this evil empire shit when Rayguns left office.
I appreciate your reporting here, clearing up a number of misconceptions in the media and public on veracity of the leaked emails themselves.
The elephant in the room – the underlying question, which you don’t address – is Do you agree that Russia is behind these hacks, and with some intent to influence our election?
The poorly-constructed plot sickens:
They have no decency. At long last, they have left no sense of decency.
That is the most hilarious part, didnt Barry mock Romney when he suggested Russia was a strategic threat, to the delight of the sychophantic media? Now the Russians are coming! lmfao
That is the most hilarious part. Didn’t Obama mock Romney when he suggested Russia was a strategic threat, to the delight of the sychophantic media? Now the Russians are coming!, rofl
“… it’s also because they’re so convinced of the righteousness of their cause (electing Clinton/defeating Trump) that they have cast all limits and constraints to the side, believing that any narrative or accusation or smear, no matter how false or conspiratorial, is justified in pursuit of it”
Please Mr. Greenwald never stop. We need you now like another generation needed Murrow.
Was it Tracey who tweeted “Investigative Journalism is a Putin Plot?”
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/12/us/politics/obama-russia-hack-election.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
Obama Considers ‘Proportional’ Response to Russian Hacking in U.S. Election
Looks like they’ll do anything to get that criminal Clinton in the WH. Beyond obstructing justice in the email–Clinton Foundation crimes, what the hell, start trouble with Russia. Without evidence.
#NeverHillary
Glenn,
one interpretation of this distortion is what you have written her. Accepting your interpretation, it explains the behavior of the producers of propaganda. What about the consumers of propaganda?
The troubling fact is that the consumers of propaganda – the vast number of Americans who toe the line – are faced with cognitive dissonance of massive consequences. An alternative to consuming the propaganda with great appetite – as the masses do – is to accept that the US has become a banana republic; albeit, a uniquely American banana republic! That is simply not digestible!!
So you are defending a bloody dictator (who incidentally provided refuge to Snowden), I’m starting to suspect the things are not that clear cut as I thought of. Maybe you and Snowden (and Trump) are indeed Putin’s agents (willing or just idiots being used by him ).
Apparently, Glenn, for some percentage of the unthinking, uncritical public, it is.
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/726092025133670401
They’ve lost their minds.
Glenn, thank you for this story. I’ll admit I was caught up in this hysteria. It seems that Trump should be able to be beaten without lying. Professional media personalities lying and getting caught in it feeds the elite mistrust that brings out reactions like supporting Trump. I suppose it may not even be entirely purposeful lying, just getting caught up in the furor of Trump hate.
The article invites us to a nice deep breath and some reflection.
(not a usual for your articles I might add heh)
What’s hillaryous?The MSM who created all the smut,sexual movies,TV shows,gangsta rap promoters,sex drugs and commercials and all other cash cow garbage,are pointing fingers at the most prominent example(for them at least)of this culture,Donald vulgar Trump.
And his vulgarity is and has been limited to words,unlike his opponent who deals in both vulgar words and vulgar deeds.
It is simply incredible the permissive attitude of those HRC supporters who are the 3 monkeys regarding this total obvious corruption by the MSM and their chosen candidate.
Unbelievable,but totally true.
Voting tests,and lie detectors at polls?
God save US.
Russia wants war in the middle east to raise the price of oil. Everything else is a distraction.
So, how did Russia convince the US and its allies to initiate/promote/support those ME wars for it?
And why don’t, say, the US tight oil and gas producers (the frackers) want the same thing, since they have been shutting in wells, quitting drilling and scrambling like frenzied ants to keep up with payments to the banksters.
Oh, why do I bother?
No, actually, Russia does not want war. In point of fact, Moscow is extremely concerned — for very good reason— that Hillary Clinton is itching to go to war.
>>> No, actually, Russia does not want war. In point of fact, Moscow is extremely concerned — for very good reason— that Hillary Clinton is itching to go to war. <<<
You are correct. (Search below about the Maginot Line of WW III). This is what happened.
Hillary Clan (she and her backers at the CFR) have execute a massive land grab in North Africa (just like Hitler did).
Why?
Look at a map.
The "masters of the universe" are setting up what I call a 3 -way tie amongst superpowers. Rockefellers call this the Trilateral Commission.
Basically, these gangsters can leverage any two of the three (US,RU,CN) to get what they want by turning one against either of the other two.
It's a bad bad bad scene.
However, I don't really think Russia or China will ever go after each other because a ground war between the two would be suicidal. SO…. These globalists are going to end up provoking a situation between us and RU/CN.
How???? Let your imagination run. IMHO, I consider Afghan to be what I call "Custer's Last Stand."
No doubt the oligarchs want oil prices raised, and agreements between Saudis & Russia to slow production is doing just that, but war taxes them on the other end of the equation.
However the Saudis definitely want to neutralize all rivals in their region and most of what’s going on can be attributed to Saudi wishes for a pipeline.
America is tethered to Saudis demands lest our war machine grind to a halt. No ‘go-juice’ to run our military machines all out 24/7 for a protracted period, should a WW unfold, and we pose no long term threat to those with a domestic source. Just the threat of a slow down, say time spent recapturing sabotaged sources etc. during a long term multi front global fight, could be decisive.
Until an abundant source besides refined oil can power the military engines, ‘at home’ energy independence means little in conventional war.
As a Bernie supporter, what makes me wonder if everyone is not being had is this.
Everyone agrees the GOP establishment is corrupt.
Everyone agrees Hillary Clinton is not a real progressive, and that she is part of the establishment (Wall St. etc).
Everyone agrees the DEM establishment is corrupt.
Everyone agrees the mainstream media is corrupt.
Everyone agrees Trump is fighting against all three, and that all three have united to stop Donald Trump.
By that knowledge alone, EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN would be voting Donald.
Ah, but there is a catch. Donald Trump is “a racist, misogynist, xenophobe, et cetera. He called Mexicans rapists. He hates Muslims, and women.”
Now just hear me out. What if the wool has been pulled over our eyes without us even realizing it? Let’s just think about this in the abstract for a minute. It is an anti-establishment year. Hillary is establishment. People are yearning for an outsider to fight back against the corrupt establishment. Trump is an outsider to the political system.
Once again, when you distill it down to its bare bones, Hillary came into this match-up in an untenable situation, trying to run in defense of an establishment almost everyone hates.
So what would anyone expect her to do? Her one route to victory was the politics of personal destruction. She had to destroy and discredit Trump. She had to make him seem so dangerous (thus the word “temperament” being repeated as much as possible by her operatives in the media) that people would rather vote for someone they thought was corrupt over someone “unhinged.” That’s also why the media is rummaging through decades-old tapes of him while refusing to air all the tapes that are already known of Hillary saying stupid things.
My point was that was Hillary’s WHOLE plan. To make Trump seem so crazy that even people who knew the truth about her and the system she represents, and knew Trump would fight against it, would STILL not vote for him. The entire goal of her campaign has been to make Trump seem racist, xenophobic, and misogynist so that progressives wouldn’t vote for him.
And guess what? Now we all think Trump is racist, xenophobic, and misogynist.
“But he is,” you say. My point is, shouldn’t we take a step back? This is exactly what they wanted us to think. Their billion-dollar campaign employs some of the best propagandists and persuaders in the world. If people who get brainwashed to think something know they’ve been brainwashed, then what is the point? What if we have fallen for exactly what they wanted us to?
First of all, if an outsider really DID abandon his business, and try to fight a corrupt system by himself, and he had NO POLITICAL EXPERIENCE or training, but he gave thousands of speeches and interviews, isn’t it just common sense that he would misspeak a lot, and say things that can be twisted by a corrupt mainstream media?
And if this man’s tan and hairstyle already made him look kind of stupid, wouldn’t that engage our natural biases as human to believe negative spin against him?
If we really had been fooled without realizing it, how would it have happened? Not overnight, otherwise we would have noticed. They would have had to color our impressions of Trump subtly, over time, by giving us increasingly-negative coverage of him over the campaign, and increasingly twisting his words, so that we could adjust to the view that he was a horrible human being over time, thinking it was really our own opinion, not realizing that they had created it for us.
“But he said those things. It was him. He called Mexicans rapists. Tim Kaine even said in the Vice Presidential debate that he called all Mexicans rapists.”
Let’s really go back and look about what he said about Mexicans. Here is the exact quote. First,
“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best.”
The media made us believe he was talking about all Mexican illegal immigrants, people who come for a better life, but from the beginning of this statement he is talking about, in his own unpolished way, criminals that the Mexican GOVERNMENT (“when Mexico SENDS its people) are dumping into the US as a way to free up space in their jails.
That is exactly what Fidel Castro did when the U.S. opened up Miami harbor for Cuban refugees. Castro used it as an opportunity to dump his problems into the U.S., which caused the Miami crime wave.
“But even if he didn’t mean most Mexicans,” you say, “none of what he said is true. The Mexican government is not sending criminals like Fidel Castro did.”
I used to agree with that, but now I come to think, how would we know if they were? Can we really trust the mainstream media would have told us? And then I saw Trump on a talk show claiming he went down to the border himself, talked to the border agents, and got it straight from them, but had to protect his sources. Interesting. I mean, I wrote him off as using conspiracy theories, but what if he was telling the truth?
Now the rest of his quote.
“They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”
See this quote pisses me off, but at the same time, is any of it really inaccurate? Many good people come here illegally, but it’s also a fact that rapists, drug pushers, and so on come over the border. In hindsight the only thing I have a problem with in the quote is the end. “And some, I ASSUME, are good people.” No. Some ARE good people, period. You don’t need to assume.
But again, this is not a polished politician. He said some were good people… he just added in the “I assume” like an asshole, but if any of us had quit our job and tried to become a politician, fighting a corrupt system, would we have said everything the perfect way? I’m just saying… But of course, the media played this error for all it was worth to demonize Trump. It’s gotten to the point where Hillary’s own running mate said with a straight face that Trump called “all Mexicans rapists.” That’s not even close to the truth. But I feel the demonization of Trump has been so effective, so subtle, that many progressives just went along with that.
Okay, but even if that quote wasn’t as awful as the media made it out, what about the “Muslim ban”? That DEFINITELY pissed me off, and still does.
But once again, since that happened, I’ve learned that both the head of the FBI and I believe Homeland Security said that there is no way to vet many of these Syrian refugees because all the records have been destroyed, and there is nothing to cross-reference them against. There is no way to know who they are. As a result, ISIS has come out and said they will infiltrate the refugee population. That is, as Trump correctly pointed out, the definition of a Trojan Horse. 99% of these refugees are good people who desperately need help, but those good people are going to be used as the Trojan Horse by ISIS militants, and the head of the FBI and Homeland Security have both said there is no way to vet them since there are no records for many of them.
Trump’s ban was also not a “ban,” since it was temporary. He also said immigrants who already live here, or who travel here for work or as officials from other countries, would still be able to come. A more polished campaign would have said a suspension of immigration from ISIS-hotbed countries until the vetting system can be rejigged to vet refugees who have no records to check, and included the details so the media couldn’t say “Trump’s policy wouldn’t even let the King of Jordan come here!” which is of course not true.
So I take issue with that policy position, and the way it was phrased. But clearly his campaign is not polished like a shining corporate turd the way Hillary’s is, and it was the Republican primary where he was struggling to pull away given the whole GOP establishment was against him. It also came directly after a terrorist attack on U.S. soil where neighbors had been suspicious but failed to speak up.
Now he has re-worded the policy to simply “extreme vetting” of people coming from countries where ISIS has a big presence, which is a very reasonable policy, and much better than a religious test.
Did his original policy make me mad? Yes, but in hindsight I see the media played it for all it was worth. If the week’s worth of coverage demonizing Trump over the Mexico comments had made us suspicious of him, the two weeks of coverage over the “Muslim ban” had us all fully against every word he said, not even really listening to him anymore. Then John Oliver, who the email leaks have shown coordinated with the Clinton campaign, started with his constant attacks such as “Donald Drumpf” and his stupid-looking hair, and progressives weren’t even thinking anymore.
It’s like our brains were now on auto-pilot. The combination of his missteps speaking off the cuff, and the corporate media taking full advantage every time to twist his words further, had turned him into a caricature in our minds. We didn’t even care anymore that the GOP establishment and DEM establishment were essentially operating as a one-party dictatorship, complete with the equivalent of corporate-state-run media defending their every move and destroying anyone who tried to speak up against them.
We didn’t even care anymore that Donald Trump was the only one actually doing that, at least the only one with any chance of actually succeeding in breaking up their monopoly of power. And it seems lately that the media has become so aggressive and so persuasive in defining Donald Trump that some Bernie voters have even forgotten, or stopped caring, that Hillary and the DNC colluded to stop Bernie, the only other one speaking out against the corrupt establishment.
All we cared about was exactly what Hillary Clinton, and her/both party’s establishment’s mainstream media, wanted us to care about: Trump’s imprecise wording, his missteps as an inexperienced politician, his hair, his everyman way of talking which they’ve mercilessly made fun of until our minds were had no choice but to give in and stop seeing it as an everyman way of talking, and start seeing it as a stupid man, a bigoted man’s, way of talking. Even though if most of us tried to campaign across the country with no political experience or training, we probably wouldn’t sound any better. And even though Trump probably wouldn’t have made as much money as he has, “small loan” (lol) or not, if he was as stupid as the media has made us believe.
But we do believe it now. Up until a few days ago when I really started to think about this, and go “wait a minute… haven’t I become exactly what Hillary Clinton and the establishment would have wanted Bernie voters to become?” this is exactly what I believed, and what I thought. And “what I thought” is kind of an ironic thing to say because honestly I’m not sure I have really been thinking for myself at all since I let John Oliver basically define Trump for me. Not that he doesn’t make it easy for people to caricature him sometimes, he does, but that doesn’t change the fact that the corrupt establishments on both sides, and their mainstream media, have absolutely used high-level psychological persuasion methods to caricature him in our minds, and that it has worked.
Even the recent “Trump Tape” is a great example. Man, that was uncomfortable to watch. He was basically saying that he was a Rockstar celebrity, and that within that Hollywood “star f*cking” groupie culture, there were many women who would “let,” or consent, to him kissing them or grabbing them randomly because they were essentially groupies. We all know that culture exists with celebrities in Hollywood, or with Rock Stars for example, and that some women are thrilled to be in that situation with Rock Stars who they have extreme attraction to–I mean, imagine what some girls would “let” Justin Bieber do to them, they would be happy to consent to that–but the mainstream media took an extremely offputting tape and twisted it into “he sexually assaults women. He was bragging about sexual assault.”
And hell, after months and months of persuasion tactics, of repeating the same key words like “bad temperament” the same way he repeats “Great”–he’s supposed to use persuasion, everyone is aware to it because he’s running for office, the media is NOT supposed to do it undercover but they did–after months of persuasion, after months of getting us to see the worst side of every misstep he made, I bet most of us believed that. Face it we have become their sheep when it comes to Trump. As long as they tell us he did something bad, we will believe them. Hillary’s entire campaign strategy has been based around getting us to see Trump as horrible, racist, misogynist, xenophobic, and deplorable, and now most of us do.
I know it’s easy to think “well that’s just because he is,” but as I try to look at what’s happened the last year with a bird’s eye view, I think that’s a little too convenient.
I’ll give one last example. Since the primaries, Trump has used twitter as a communication tool to make points, whether pushing his policy issues “we need to create jobs folks!” or to attack candidates “Hillary is tied to wall street folks!” This is a neutral tool that he has always used. He uses it before his opponents speeches, and after, in the day, and in the night, to talk about many things.
But lately the media–not the Hillary campaign, but the media–have framed it differently. Every time Trump criticizes Hillary on policy or otherwise, they frame it as “she made that attack on Trump (arbitrarily mention whenever the last time she spoke was), and NOW he is tweeting at her. Does someone who can be goaded by a tweet to attack really have the TEMPERAMENT to be trusted with the nuclear codes?”
That is an exact Hillary Clinton campaign strategy, and the mainstream media repeats it. CNN anchors can’t directly say “I think Trump has a terrible temperament,” because they have to maintain the veil of objectivity, but they can FRAME things to persuade you in the direction they, and the Hillary campaign, wants, using BUZZWORDS that go straight to the subconscious, like repeating “temperament” over and over.
Everyone knows Trump tweets and uses facebook to talk all sorts of issues, to defend himself and also attack, and it is not related to being “goaded” into anything. He has called himself a counter-puncher since the primaries, and uses all forms of communication–speeches, rallies, facebook, twitter–to defend his positions and character, and attack others on issues or character. But by employing the formula that Hillary didn’t attack him, she “goaded” him, and Trump didn’t respond or counter-punch, he was “goaded into” attacking, the media can completely shift the narrative of what is happening, and make Hillary look good, while Trump looks bad.
I’ll give an example how it’s done another way. “Hillary attacked Trump on immigration at a rally yesterday. Trump just tweeted a scathing rebuttal of her position, while also showing how Hillary’s positions on immigration differ depending on what she tells the public and what she told Wall St. in her leaked speeches. Should Hillary really be punching first when it’s allowing Trump to land such hard counterpunches?”
It’s all in how the media frames it, and people might think it has no effect on how they think, but overtime it absolutely has an effect.
I’m just saying when such obvious attempts at brainwashing are occurring by the media, anyone who consumes that media should be very aware of it, and how it relates to what they believe. If the brainwashing didn’t work on people, the media wouldn’t be risking their reputations to engage in it. And it is clearly aimed at progressives, and for people to hate Trump. We are progressives. Most of us have been hating Trump. I know we think that hate has been a 100% naturally occurring phenomenon, and it’s just a coincidence that what we believe is exactly what Hilary Clinton, both the Democrat and Republican establishments, and the media want us to believe and set out to make people believe. But I repeat, if the people being brainwashed knew they were being brainwashed, the process wouldn’t be very effective, would it? I’m not telling anyone what to think, but anyone who has consumed a fair amount of mainstream media coverage the last year should definitely examine what they believe, take another look at the specific causes, and go to the source to see if what was said, or what happened, is really what you were TOLD happened, and really happened in the CONTEXT you were told it did, and in the way the media framed it to you.
Besides when you put all the noise to the side, Hillary Clinton is still representing the corrupt establishments of two parties, and the corrupt media, while Donald Trump is still the first candidate in our lifetimes to reach the General Election who is fighting against those precise monoliths. I can’t pretend I support some of the things he’s said, but at the same time, we could be missing a gigantic, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity here to push back against the corrupt system.
Wow. What a lot of effort to say:
“I HEART tRump!”
I’ll give you an E for effort.I’m for Trump also.
You are quite correct in almost every thing you’ve said,but many people here have too many notions they can’t shake.
Why people aren’t up in arms at the total assault by these criminal MSM scum on our democracy just reveals the modern corruption of every ideal we once held dear.Truth,honor and justice are just slogans used by total hypocrites.
Obomba in NC;Black people must vote for The Hell Bitch.WTF?
Disappointment aint the word when it comes to him.
I was at a site today,(TD?)where someone linked up a very blurry video of O in 08 sitting in a plane in a certain position that allegedly got the ladies on board giggling in embarrassment.Funny dat.
Do these idiots realize what comes around goes around,and they’ve opened up a can of whoopass worms?
You claim to be a Bernie supporter? Not one he would have welcomed, I think.
Your excuses for Trump are laughable. With all that verbiage, you neglect the most important domestic issues: the Supreme Court, healthcare, marriage equality, the social safety net, police violence, and so on.
Have you ever actually listened to Trump. He’ll cut taxes and create jobs? How? Oh, blah blah blah obfuscation. He’ll “make America great again”? What the hell does that even mean? Except pushing back progressive gains of the past fifty years.
Your reasoning is absurd. Trump is not “pushing back” against anything. He is the epitome of the system you pretend to yourself that he wants to fight against: an unfettered capitalist predator, who will lie, cheat, and steal for personal gain.
Clinton more or less represents the status quo, a holding action, and the lesser evil. Trump is something much worse. A police-state monomaniac who is a danger to the people of the United States and to the world.
That you can’t see that is a poor reflection on your perceptivity.
“Extremist” is a noun. The adjective is “extreme.” “Dismissing away” is redundant.
Hmmm. “Extreme measures” versus “extremist measures,” “extreme sports” versus “extremist sports….” Oh, never mind, you’ve obviously thought about this more than I have.
Because Russia made him write this.
If you don’t stop and think it out you could pound out “What’s next bring back McCarthyism and the blacklisting of writers, entertainers, media and Hollywood types that challenge the elite?” But as you stop and think about it everybody that could put together a challenge to the elite has already been blacklisted as it is all a corporate owned media and entertainment entity filled with selected sycophants.
Put together a film that shows any empathy for the Russian effort including giving credit for their greater number of troops that were used to defeat the Nazi’s, and their total military and civilian losses during WWII of 26,000,000 souls compared to the US losses of 403,000, and see if you can get one US film Festival to run it, or more than half a dozen US theaters to show it.
Put together a film that shows Israel’s criminally disproportionate slaughter of the Palestinian people, and see if you can get one US film Festival to run it, or more than a single US theater to show it.
“Rome is burning”…..
What makes your version of events more probable/believable than that of other media takes…? Everybody has a side, or bias. It’s human nature. All those supposedly(s) undecided (s)? Really 0_0 ? HRC’s email? I believe everything regarding them. I don’t believe it rises to a level of prosecution, tho. Look… How many human beings dead or alive are without indignation? We’ve all done some form of lying, stealing, dishonest work. How many of us are willing to lose our livelihood because of it? We have close calls and vow to never go that route again. Fact of the matter is we have 2 candidates running for president. HRC and DFT. There are elephants in the room. Democrats and Republicans alike need to acknowledge them. Mainly speaking of the voters. Because we’re dogmatic about our own parties, we refuse to see the elephants. Only see the faults in our oppositions. I care about what happened in Benghazi…I care about the emails. I give HRC the benefit regarding the emails because I can see whereas an individual would think it was okay to use their own private server to communicate privately and then mix business with in it, especially if they thought it was okay to do so. I am a multi task-er. I know what that’s like. Maybe she thought it was okay. Nothing was hacked. No espionage or treason. No secret double agent crap. Just a mistake. Other than that… She’s a smart woman. Familiar with laws, government, economics, foreign affairs, and protecting the rights of others, women included. I am aware of the Clinton Foundation and the fundraising that they do. I think if there was anything of significant value that would expose fraud, it would have surfaced. Donald Trump is just a pimp born into money. Uses his deep pockets to do whatever he wants to do. Degrade and demean others. Hire people to build for him then files bankruptcy to avoid paying them. That was his plan all along. It’s just business! He lost 1billion $ in 1995. Hasn’t paid federal taxes in 20yrs. Strange he didn’t want to show his federal returns. I see why, now. Has sexually assaulted women most of his adult life. Donald Trump is a loose cannon. Out of control. As president, you will have advisors with specific skills to use as a guide when making decisions to govern our homeland. He’s demonstrated to the world throughout his campaign that he doesn’t even follow his campaign staff’s advise! How’s that gonna play out in the White House if he’s elected president? As a middle class woman, the choice is very clear to me who I would trust occupy the highest position in the United States of America. Hillary Rodham Clinton for President.
Helen Reddy,I thought you croaked?
IT’S OFFICIAL…
Hillary is a terrorist financier.
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/email-scandal-clinton-foundations-ties-to-terrorist-financers/
No. Financiers of terrorists also finance Killary’s foundation.
And she says we should put pressure on them to stop financing the terrorists of whom she doesn’t approve.
>>> No. Financiers of terrorists also finance Killary’s foundation. <<
Clinton Foundation is actually an international club… a "Sam's Club" of terrorists.
This is all ridiculous. Wikileaks was set up to help Trump and harm Hillary, don’t you know that Glenn? Stop trying to be an independent thinker….smh @ Hillary and Trump supporters.
Someone didn’t read the article. You also don’t know your history, Wikileaks wasn’t set up to help trump, it has been around for 10 years.
What a curious statement, if not itself ridiculous.
Wikileaks was publishing long before Trump emerged as a candidate.
Is yours a paid position or do you just troll for the amusement value?
He’s joking….
I believe Laws456 employed what we call ‘sarcasm’. You are annoyed for no reason
bh2, I don’t think you have a very acute grasp of sarcasm – the last line “smh @ Hillary and Trump supporters” indicates Laws456 is neither.
The remark was satirical.
Glenn Greenwald and The Intercept continue to practice real journalism when most American media have devolved into nothing more than shills. /salute
“groupthink righteousness” is basically what causes me to flinch when I hear people call themselves “progressives”. God forbid that the bar be a little above just not being a racist (except to the innocents Obama drones) or blindly liking war (except the war Obama perpetuates) for any amount of actual thinking to continue to be included in conversation
“smart, rational people”
talk about claims with no evidence! i kid. a little.
none of this is new. just as the groundwork for iraq was laid over years, the recent uptick in shrieking anti-russian propaganda (given that “putin” is synonymous with “russia” for anyone gullible enough to believe this shit) is a long game leading to an attempt at regime change. they did it in ukraine and – as the recent insane threats from soros show – they’re working on a “russian maidan” that could probably happen right after the election or maybe within a short time after the inauguration. unless that time is being reserved for one of israel’s genocidal outbursts. sanctions, proxy attacks (also threatened by several members of the military in response to russia’s syrian mission) and “with us or against us” (a.k.a. “kremlin stooge”). just like iraq. “when” hardly matters when the “if” is a certainty. it also depends on what happens in syria and – depending on that – what happens to iran.
that said, neocons are pathetic cowards and the one thing that gives them any form of pause is the threat of a fair fight. true for foreign policy, true for anyone running against their chosen figurehead. witness the vitriol aimed at sanders holdouts and third party voters in addition to the constant whining about trump’s “deplorables”.
on that subject – “his almost-certain humiliating defeat is less than a month away”. maybe, but i seriously doubt it will be a landslide unless another 11 year old revelation comes out. one that matters to anyone besides screeching feminists and their eunuch manchild companions. there’s also the very real influence of “trump shame” that may lead to deceptive polling. see also: brexit.
as for “abusive, misogynistic, bigoted, scary, lawless authoritarian”, while i share a portion of your disdain for trump every one of those terms could be applied to either clinton. they simply lack trump’s privilege-induced tourettes.
i am pro-putin and pro-russia, but people like glenn greenwald and the authors on this website make me almost anti-putin and anti-russia.
Thank you, Glenn Greenwald. People have lost their minds over here. Among Dems, the vote your fear crowd is shrill. It feels so manipulative. The DNC and Clinton Campaign conspire to tell the press to build Trump up during the primary. The US mainstream press talks about nothing but Trump, seemingly, for nearly a year in which they largely ignore Bernie Sanders. (Bernie who?) Then, once they have made sure Trump got the nomination, they spend the rest of the election cycle clearly doing nothing but advocating his defeat. I don’t want him to be President, that’s not the point: He’s a prop to ensure the election of the pro-corporate neoliberal Clinton. And I feel all around me, no one sees this. It feels so unreal.
Apparently the Clintons are picking on the old and crippled. After making an anti- Hellary comment and pro Trump comment about 4 days ago, my main computer system got hacked and is still down, irretrievably. The Clinton death list has claimed my HP I7 with SSD.
Trying to limp along with a 1990’s dell laptop that is slower than the teletype I use to run, has also been hit. Apparently anything anti-Hellary. is food for the Gremlins.
Trying to comment on Glenn’s latest article, prompted another hit.
May the Force be with you. and Make America Great Again.
It was ‘dem Russians!
It was ‘dem Israelis for sure.Malevolence incorporated.
Mr. Greenwald,
I don’t know why so many Americans, and also including yourself by my interpretation, seem to think it’s better that Hilary force herself into the Oval Office. She realistically stole the nomination from Sanders.
Trump, regardless of what he is or is not, is at least a genuine product of the democratic process. Don’t you believe that makes him the better candidate simply by virtue of being the People’s choice?
A “genuine” fascist, is still a genuine fascist. Doesn’t make that person better than a lying corporatist like Clinton. Trump is a genuine dictator, and an imbecile. Nobody should vote for a stupid, uneducated idiot like him.
speaking of “uneducated”, you seem to struggle with the meaning of “genuine”. he might be seen as a “dictator” by his many underlings but then the same could be said of every horrible boss. as for “fascist”, he could only be “genuine” in that area if he possessed a time machine and a decent grasp of the italian language.
Anyone who calls an ardent states’ rights supporter a fascist is an idiot or a shill. Likely both.
So many Trump employees praise the man publicly, ( lived in NYC and don’t like him personally) and yet it is rare to see anyone actually step forward and say these things that you accuse Trump pf being.
He is smart, of that there is no doubt as his business dealings prove that. And where he personally lacked the expertise, he seems to hire the right person (man or woman) to get the job done. Fascist? How? I see him as a capitalist and a shrewd businessman. Quite the contrary, he wants government out of the business of controlling business. He’s lobbied and contributed to elected officials, and managed to be successful for it. So what? The Clintons have sold their positions and power to the highest bidders since their days in Arkansas.
I don’t like him but I don’t have to like him to vote for him. Some will say that Trump is a Democrat in RINO clothing, and other will say is an establishment Republican. Neither is a true statement. The fact is, both parties don’t want him to win. The entire Bush family is against him. Why? Because they have been in collusion with the Clintons since the days of Iran-Contra when drugs/human trafficking helped finance arms to the Contra rebels in Nicaragua and help for Saddam Hussein in Iraq during the war with Iran.
You can argue semantics and when you finished adding up the good and bad of each candidate, if you still think that Hillary belongs anywhere but prison, I’d say you are grossly misinformed.
The People want Trump and that is what they will get if the elections aren’t rigged.
You da man.
He isn’t my dream candidate either,but Jesus aint running,and isn’t electable anyway.
I just hope patriots are still majority,if so, he wins.
The election is in a few weeks.
trump won the 2nd debate and he most probably will win the 3rd debate as well, idiot.
“… trump won the 2nd debate …”
Sure, chum. That’s why his poll numbers immediately took a dive into the toilet.
I hope he “wins” the election the same way.
An obvious zionist propagandist,who says his serial lying co conspirators are to be believed,along with their corrupt polls.
Divide and conquer used to work,but not this time.
If they had managed and manipulated the leaks differently, I would feel differently about Snowden’s & Co.’s actions. Snowden is not the US’s first conscientious objector; he!s just the first earning an astronomical salary, who didn’t stick around to face the music. Instead, his position is that he did us all a favor and it’s entirely appropriate that he’s found succor at the teat of – arguably – our most dangerous enemy. Cry me a river. His are the actions of a self-interested craven, not a hero. Meanwhile, his WikiLeaks buddies get to make the calls on what is released. I would not be surprised if they were DIRECTING the activities of hackers….with input from KGB analysts. That is how unprincipled I think they are.
We can’t know much about the raw files “secured” by hackers; Greenwald &Co get to review, if not scrub/release selectively the files. They are NOT leaked files; they are STOLEN, which is a very different kettle of fish. RAND analyst Ellsberg LEAKED documents because he was morally opposed to Vietnam War, and he was prepared to face the music, as were the many conscientious objectors to the Vietnam War. Perhaps Snowden was motivated by conscience, but not to the extent he would stick around to face the music; I have little respect for him. He’s a self-involved millennial who thinks his actions should be ignored because he is a better judge than the DOD of what Americans should know. In addition to exposing NSA spying, he has revealed info that has deeply crippled our ability to defend ourselves. He has placed all of us at risk. And instead of facing the music like people of principle…? He skips off to the country that is demonstrably trying to manipulate our democracy while we are dealing with the most skillful demagogue since Hitler. And Greenwald’s biggest concern is deconstructing someone else’s’ deconstruction of some Pravda article?? His head is so far up his own ass that he has no clue what is important, right, or the appropriate subject of his great concern. Who died and made HIM arbiter of American secrets? These men think they are subject to different rules than the rest of us because THEY, alone, have the bead on what is moral and right. Well, news flash!, none of us elected Greenwald to be judge, jury and executioner. He’s bitching about our reaction to the entirely predictable fallout of Assange’s, Snowden’s and his irresponsible actions. I have NO sympathy. He’s acquired a privileged position in the media based on his relationships with the people who have actively subverted our security and others’ rights to privacy; he’s got nothing to bitch about. He’s RESPONSIBLE for the entirely predictable disinformation Putin has constructed with the info Greenwald and crew have delivered to the whole world,on a silver platter. He continues to applaud and encourage hackers. He has no moral authority as far as I am concerned and his expectation that I should give a shit about his whining in this article is ludicrous. My opinion.
Exactly WHY should I trust these self-appointed censors as protectors-of-truth? They’ve already demonstrated they will promote illegal activities in search of…well, whatever they are searching for. They’ve used their privileged info to acquire privileged positions WRT media and governments, and they position themselves as judge, jury, and executioner, superior to the rest of us. Let them release raw files, unopened, directly to the press.
Even if Eichenwald (a Pulitzer-winning and therefore widely credited journalist) over-stated the case, I think in the realm of politics and in the age of the Internet, a little bit of ends and means has to be taken into account at this critical juncture. Nowhere in your narrative have you mentioned that Trump has lied about virtually every single thing he has ever said. You admitted he was dangerous, but you never once admitted that everything he says is a lie. So while I appreciate this update on the history of the tweets, it doesn’t outweigh the massively dangerous world of lies, aggression, fascism, and solipsism that Trump lives in.
“Donald Trump, for reasons I’ve repeatedly pointed out, is an extremist, despicable, and dangerous candidate, and his almost-certain humiliating defeat is less than a month away”. And who says Glenn Greenwald isn’t even more dangerous?
Mr. Putin (Russia) is being shafted and framed by many, since they (34 countries) support Isis, and Putin isn’t allowing a return on their Isis investment.
Even France had a problem with Putin, but it was France who was in Syria killing the good, like their US Democratic puppets.
Jack…. See below…. about the Maginot Line and WW III.
It started officially in 2012. They pulled the NATO HQ out of Turkey in May, 2012.
Why? Look at a map.
The last 2 French? presidents have been ardent zionists.and have brought France massacres everywhere,and the destruction of French cohesiveness and security,but are well protected by Frances corrupt ziomedia.
I see a LePen in their future.
I believe a lot of people around the world are wondering how the political rhetoric of Trump and Clinton will become policy and action the day after the inauguration.
All of this hyperbolic and super heated vilification rhetoric about Putin and the Russians by the democratic party and media pundits is simply talking Americans into justifying and accepting war against the Russians once the elections are over. Hillary herself has talked about retaliation. Because of the campaign rhetoric she is painting herself in a corner when it comes to options regarding our dealings with Russia.
But the whole theme of evil Putin/Russians started even before the violent coup in the Ukraine but has reached a shrill tone in the last number of months. It is very similar what the Bush administration and the mass media did in the run up to the invasion of Iraq where the propaganda campaign lead upwards of 80% of Americans to support the invasion of Iraq.
The second pernicious effect of the democratic party electoral Putin conspiracy is the squashing of dissent on major issues after we get a new president Clinton. Marcy Wheeler noted an article in the NYTimes not long ago that basically claimed the anti-TPP movement was Putin inspired. This article was not by opinion pundits, but by “regular reporters”. The article had no references to Trump and trade policies. Simply that being anti-TPP was basically being a lacky to the Kremlin. So after Clinton wins, to oppose a no-fly zone in Syria is to be pro-Putin and anti-American. To oppose expansion of drone attacks in Africa is to be pro-Putin, and anti-American. And the list will go on.
By the way, EU leaders and press have been accusing Putin of being behind everything wrong in the West for some time now. Some of the accusations are purely delusional and comedic, but seem to work for them. For example, one Brit politician said that Putin used drunken, violent Russian soccer fans during Euro 2016 to propagandize people to vote yes on Brexit. Who knew drunken soccer thugs were about making political statements.
Indeed. Putin is being blamed for being anti-Fracking (and Clinton was quick to blame him), and for being pro-Brexit.
Let’s not forget the entertainment media who have been making Russians the bad guys for some time.
old habits die hard. the media loves their member berries and now that terrorists are the “good guys” in syria it’s easy to go retro.
as for putin himself, he became a target as soon as he cut off the majority of post-collapse vultures. just like the clintons, those grudges unfortunately survived the 1990s.
Yah, the “Russian Mafia” has become acceptable villains in a lot of movies and TV series. My impression is that after 9-11 the Arab Terrorist was the preferred villain, but that didn’t seen to go over well, and in their place the Russian Mafia. Serbs are poor substitutes. I suppose in some ways it had to be the Russians as alternatives like the Norwegian Mafia might be snickered at.
And the so called Russian mafia are actually zionist Jewish oligarchs, whom Putin chased out of Russia,with their 500 foot yachts.
That’s why they hate him,and continually demonize him,and only morons and their dupers fail to note.
You may not be the most flaming idiot on this thread, but that’s only because I have yet to discover if there’s one more worthy of the title.
I too oppose the rightwing government of Israel, but you’re an outright loud-mouthed anti-semite — in addition to being too stupid to understand the danger to the rights of Americans in the event of a Trump presidency.
I would apologize for the insults in my remarks, except that your remarks have been far more insulting of other posters who far exceed you in political wisdom, maturity, and civilized discourse.
Ha,the right wing government of Israel!The whole place is filled with fascist nut jobs,and America inflicted by the criminals also.
You are an obvious zionist,as your talking points mirror the serial liars perfectly,and if you clowns won’t acknowledge the obvious zionist attempt to deny Trump a fair deal,you just place yourself further down the BS hole.
America first,and f*ck Israel.
Something strange has happened to supporters of the Democratic Party, and not just the sycophantic Clinton-lovers in the media.
When Obama campaigned for president in 2008 I was still in my teens, but it was a disconcerting thrill to see all the Democrats I knew in my family (and all around, really), almost mystically alive with promise, idealism and excitement over the future. Obama was like a New Age god, an electrifying presence that made them believe that goodness might well triumph over the horribleness of Cheneyism and the USA’s deterioration into uber-Christian reactionary thought.
I was swept up in it a bit myself, though I hated Obama saying a bigger war in Afghanistan was his intention – and I was dismissed when mentioning the “good war” and also his telecom capitulation, which made me increasingly suspicious about the actual depth of Democrat “goodness.” But even so, there was real passion and a beautiful spirit about, and much of the aspirational vibe was almost painfully genuine. My sisters were crying at the TV as Obama won the presidency and gave one of his soaring speeches; there was a mood that the worst was behind us, that the light had dawned.
Over the years since, that visionary uplift has become like a dream; Obama has become a withered caricature of his former self, his oratory skills now as useful and profound as a Disney exhibit gleaming away in fantasy, and the mood of inspiration is well and truly dead. Obama has been bombing and killing and failing to even pretend to rein in the powerful; he proved himself a mediocre man with a surprisingly vicious streak. And the culture has become divided into separate camps of big mouths like Bill Maher and Bill O’Reilly, both revolting versions of the humanism and traditionalism they each pretend to embody.
And Democrats no longer get off on feeling virtuous, just on feeling superior. The pretense of being morally better than Republicans is not a quest for sincere goodness but an aggressive stance of opinionated belligerence mowing down all opponents mercilessly beneath a fascist disregard for self-criticism. What used to be the closed-mindedness of the GOP alone is now mirrored by the Democrats entirely.
Yes, something has happened to the Democrats – their mask has slipped.
And America stands naked before the world, stunned by its absolute political shallowness and reeling like a drunk. The establishment has won, and now none of the people have an incentive to embody virtue at all except insofar as pretending to do so will win an argument or an election.
Obama’s phoniness has gutted the Democratic Party – his betrayal of the people turning the institution into a cruel joke that is finally just as compromised, corporatist and corrupt as the Republicans, and sending true progressives into the wilderness. Clinton stands on Obama’s zombie shoulders, cackling about the left-wing: “We came, we saw, it died!”
Eloquent. I will keep that.
>>> Something strange has happened to supporters of the Democratic Party, and not just the sycophantic Clinton-lovers in the media.<<<
It's BOTH parties…. Trump hasn't been tainted, yet.
Open criminality today… it used to be kept in the shadows of secrecy. Blatant lies are uttered by relentlessly today.
It's 1984.
That's the main difference.
THE MOTIVE: Usher in a World Government of a small club of owners/masters over 6-8 billion slaves.
The social caste system of India is being implemented worldwide.
Why we’re being “shaped” with Politically Correct rhetoric, because soon you won’t decide where and/or whom you reside, others will. You will learn to get along in the New World Slavery.
We will be ruled by the mind of psychopaths united…
Wanna know what the mind of a psychopath looks like (this is real art from a society ruled by psychopaths): https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/94/2e/ca/942ecad445b5f549d18b9e5c5b5af814.jpg
Psychopaths? https://books.google.com/books?id=HfM-mpz1ouwC&pg=PT53&lpg=PT53&dq=psychopath+grandiosity+rule+the+world&source=bl&ots=BdOCf8f1lR&sig=mTlec2qwNnZsCjCgRLt85voZr3A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj9pvfs7NPPAhWq6IMKHQH0BBcQ6AEIUzAJ#v=onepage&q=psychopath%20grandiosity%20rule%20the%20world&f=false
They seek to rule the world and enslave their victims.
I don’t want to be the world either.
Just American.
Open borders indeed.oy.
Maisie, whatever else you do, keep writing, please.
Agreed. That was damn good.
Hyperbolic youthful exuberance.
Unfortunately youth is fleeting.
Hey,that reminds of silent Bob.he got a Nobel in Lit!
Why now?If he had received one way back in 65?,I’d say hey,OK.
He hasn’t issued popular or relevant stuff since 1970 or so.
Life time achievement?
Hillaryous;The influence of Bob Dylan on todays yuppie scum who have every one of his albums,and saw the Dead a hundred times,is absolutely nil,and instead they are all disciples of Charles Manson .
3 dollar bills.
I agree, beautifully written.
I’m sorry; you need a REASON to “embody virtue?” That is a great deal of what is wrong with us.
Did ya miss the civics lesson at school, the one where they discussed branches of government and the limits on the powers of the Executive, in the face of a hostile congress? It seems to me that, as much as your weeping sisters, you bought the POTUS-as-Hero narrative hook, line and sinker. Obama’s been boxing with his hands tied for the past four years. We’re so sorry you’re disappointed. Now buck up, and get into the fray, to fight for whatever you believe in. The elites obviously owe you nothing, and we’ve always had to fight for worthwhile change; no one has ever handed it out.
Obomba’s strictly a shadow boxer.No pain.No marks.Always wins.
The pos droner in chief lost me 1-29?-09.
Once more, you write beautifully!
Obama lost me a while ago, back when he picked Biden, who pushed for war with Iraq back in 2002, and challenged those who questioned Clinton I
‘s statements on Iraq. His “look forward, not backward” policy ensured that criminals are happily living, while he’s jailing those who are revealing the truth about America’s misdeeds. But Obama has idealism. Clinton has shown time after time that she is willing to sell out her friends (or base) to maintain power.
Well said. What a good writer you are!
Thank you Maisie, that was well thought out and written.
After finishing, it made me think of this quote by Frank Zappa –
“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”
( I also share your assessment of what sadly Bill Maher has become and how he parallels your observation of the Dem party. )
Maisie, wonderfully put… and that is why so many are and will continue to take a knee, not stand …and soon do more.
Maisie, your best post yet, IMO, and you have had some good ones. You are wise beyond your years. Please keep them coming!
Damn! This is why I read the comments.
You totally misinterpret the Obama presidency. You have not even touched upon the obstructionism in congress that made it almost impossible for him to govern. From his first days in office, the Republicans took the position that he would be a one-term president (they were wrong) and they would do all they could to prevent him from accomplishing his goals. Finally, in the last 14-1`6 months, he took to executive orders…it is sad to see a young person so disillusioned…
Very well written, an exceptional view of this man who, upon getting elected was given the playbook of the 1%’ers and never looked back. Now, myself and perhaps many many other shutter to think about the world’s future.
Here’s a good take on the role the media is playing in promoting an aggressive approach to Syria and Russia, as seen in the debate:
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/10/11/debate-moderator-distorted-syrian-reality/
This was really a case where the “moderator,” Martha Raddatz, entered the fray as a debater and pushed a very specific agenda, a pro-war, pro-no fly zone agenda. This really goes beyond the presidential election into the bureaucratic empire mentality seen in Washington – i.e. Raddatz speaks for ABC, ABC is owned by Disney, and Disney shareholders approve this message. And this gets into who really owns the media conglomerates, who sets the message, who runs Wall Street – it’s the big funds, like Vanguard, State Street, Fidelity, Blackrock, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America – all tied into oil and defense interests that want more war and regime change in the Middle East, North Africa and Central Asia. This is the real fascist threat, just as it was similar interests who backed the rise of Nazi Germany in the 1930s.
While Trump and Clinton both live in this circle, Clinton is so slavishly beholden to these interests that she would do whatever they want, and she’s already demonstrated a war pig mentality, from Iraq to Libya to Syria, that will only get worse once she’s emplaced in office and brings the likes of Flournoy, Nuland, etc. onboard to run her foreign policy agenda.
The whole notion of superpower empires is crumbling; but the imperial backers, neocons and neoliberals alike, are desperate to hold on to their waning power, and as part of that agenda, are bringing the world to the brink of global war, with the close collusion of American media outlets.
That’s the biggest immediate threat in the entire world right now – panicking Wall Street imperialists afraid of losing their grasp on global power and wealth – and Clinton is their tool. Given that she’s likely to be installed in office by these interests, it’s her militant pro-war neocon agenda that must be stopped – and that also means fighting back against a pro-war corporate media agenda.
Think about it – it’s the U.S. media who undercut Bernie Sanders; it’s the U.S. media who gave all the free press to Donald Trump; it’s the U.S. media cheerleading for war in Syria – it’s a corporate conglomerate run by Wall Street, and should be seen as an enemy of the average American citizen, not as a friend.
Powerful. Enlightening. A stake thru the hearts of the marriage of deception and deviousity. Utterly insightful analysis.
tx
This is one reason why I plan to vote against reappointing Bob Iger for CEO of Disney, as well as his remarks against Sanders. I only have one share, but every bit helps.
… you know, I really have to repeat myself here again:
Greenwald begins his story by distancing himself from Trump, for fear of being painted a supporter by those who would seize the opportunity to dismiss the information provided here because of the spotlight it sheds on Dem’s , but he does it by assuring readers how Trump will lose with ‘humiliation’.
So let me remind you that Voter Cross Checking is real, funded by the Koch brothers bottomless war chest, and is targeting those likely to vote Democratic in many key states.
Poles, which are considered meaningless propaganda by experts in the field, can say what ever they like. But when those votes are rejected electronically the tally will reflect better how a fool is only 9 points behind to a seasoned politician.
What you see in the news, political programs, twittersphere, etc. is largely fueled by the corporate owned media establishment who are scared to death of Trump. But votes are the only thing that count – not public opinion. And the games been rigged way ahead of time by fabricated stories of non-existant Voter Fraud that got laws passed to create Cross Checking.
It’s a simple little flawed program that searches for the same name registered in multiple states – only it doesn’t cross check for middle initials, age, deceased, etc. etc.
An example of this is – Maria L. Garcia will come up as having voted in 4 states. Never mind that it was Maria D. Garcia / Maria L. Garcia / Maria M. Garcia / Maria A. Garcia the computer simply declares them all as voting in multiple states and they are electronically placed on a list so that when they vote, unknown to them, their vote is cancelled. It is legal and it is happening. Happening primarily to Black and Hispanic / Latino voters because the program was written to go after surnames associated with these ethnicities.
Ok so that leaves …. well it leaves a lot of Trump supporters I’ll just say that. And don’t think for one moment that it’s only the Tea Party crazies that are voting for Trump. People want to send a message once and for all, and with Bernie strategically removed, many are angry (rightfully so in this day & age) and know ‘exactly’ who & what they are voting for regardless of consequences.
pretty unimaginative to ‘send a message’ and not even realize there are more than two parties. There’s no message sent by choosing the other binary.
sooo… the people who voted for Roseanne Barr in 2012 sent a message?
( I think you mean to say that there is no message if it’s never received. )
wracking my brains here, but Roseanne Barr was a write-in candidate, right? So yeah not much of a message gets sent because nobody actually tabulates specifics of write-in votes reliably.
Vote Green or Libertarian: well, we can tell you are unhappy with the status quo, and your vote is counted. Does send message.
Vote for the “other” 2 party candidate than the one you would normally vote for?: how can we tell you apart from the people who would normally vote that way? does not send a message.
Don’t vote?: how can we tell you from the people who wouldn’t vote anyway? Does not send message.
“… Roseanne Barr was a write-in candidate, right? “…
no.
um, P&F Party on the ballot in ***8**** states this year….if that’s any indication then mostly a write-in candidate
and people talk about the Greens like they don’t have a footprint
I feel sorry for Hillary, she is going to have a very very tough time as president. If she thinks that all these problems goes away after she wins the election, she needs to think again. IMO I think we’re just seeing the beginning of it…
This election has proven that we are already living in a plutocracy.
Fantastic stuff. Thank you GG, LP, wikileaks + ES
Thanks Glenn for being the sole (effective) voice at the Intercept willing to subject the Hillary campaign to anything remotely like the scrutiny of Trump.
Like you, I find nothing virtuous in Trump. That doesn’t me being deeply revolted at the one-eyed nonsense coming out of previously reasonable liberal voices.
Unlike you, I’m not convinced Hillary will win next month, but regardless of who wins, it’s clear that the rational, liberal left is as dead as an effective force for good as the GoP party.
helluva heads up. tx!
interesting that the 3 companies are all wallstreet z-clubbers
so nice to everyone and like hellary, stick you in the back
i have always suspected that long ago some people said “they’re gonna find out what we’re up to and hate us so we need to get prepared better than before.”
this is oopsly posted, was meant as reply to DS
https://theintercept.com/2016/10/11/in-the-democratic-echo-chamber-inconvenient-truths-are-recast-as-putin-plots/?comments=1#comment-294555
feel free to make correction.
CrookdClinton RUINED THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY and they do not know what to do.SenSanders is the head basket case on this; in the Vox ,Iglesias writes Clinton lying is “an endearment” to him!
I suppose no one can call out the FPotusa couple for what they are: a national dishonesr disgrace and shoul get off the ballot now.
You can follow SenSanders bad advice and waste another four years of your life– he will not!
Or your best is to VoteGreen.
Or Vote Trump.
To believe that a liar– the definition of public and private opinions– and howon.y CrookdClinton can “see all americans” to request their vote is beyond what any self-respecting human can stomach.
Clintonemail.com to talk to criminals. End.
WOW~ You can’t close your eyes for a minute.
Nance wasn’t on the list, but he should be the toast of the next party.
May he go the way of the Steve Emerson.
As far as Eichenwald, this is amazing! It has been awhile since somebody with supposed credentials be so blatant in his disregard for journalistic integrity. He has exposed himself as a fraud so fantastically publicly. Big league.
Does he still have a job?
Well said. You write very well. Worth every letter you used. This is a complex, emotional ride. Insanity, it might feel like sometimes. No matter what side someone finds themselves in this train-wreck, there’s a serious, legitimate (more or less) group of people that’ll call bullshit. With “facts”. Finding the real truth, seems impossible. But when I read an article like yours, I know that I have someone that sees things how I do too. Keep up the good work! Cheers.
Off-topic, but this is the most active thread, so heads up:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/gossip/la-et-mg-shailene-woodley-arrested-dapl-20161010-snap-htmlstory.html
The lead investor in Phillips 66, the main partner in the pipeline, is Warren Buffett, noted “liberal philanthropist” and self-declared “friend” of Hillary Clinton; the oil is not even for domestic use, but under the new Obama export rules, will be sold abroad out of the Gulf of Mexico; this is a lucrative bet for Buffett and pals, but the pesky natives and farmers and their concerns over water pollution are getting in the way.
Hey, BLM protesters have showed up there, does that mean the Intercept might consider covering the story, only the biggest popular protest in the United States, why the silence? Or is it that Ebay investors are also Phillips 66 investors? Buffett-Omidyar shared agenda, perhaps?
warren buffet has become perhaps a serious racist and predator of American sovereignty regarding public utilities. He is a serious pirate who prides himself robbing the piblic of ownership of our resources and self destiny.
The government, three Indian Tribes and 25 other parties released a tentative agreement providing for the removal of four Klamath River dams owned by billionaire Warren Buffett.
warren should be very happy on mars where he can terraform the entire planet.
I read the Newsweek article and thought it was good, and defined the limits of its findings. I was unaware that the author had gone so far away from demonstrable facts.
It’s a shame because something of potential interest has been lost a game of telephone on steroids.
I affiliate with Democrats and this kind of irresponsible amplification makes me nuts.
Off-topic, but this is the most active thread, so, heads up:
I’ll refrain from expressing my well-known opinion of “social media” again.
>>> I’ll refrain from expressing my well-known opinion of “social media” again. <<<
Cloud Computing is for Airheads and Communists.
Airheads are clueless.
Communists know exactly what they are doing.
Social media is Hitler's, Stalin's, Mao's, Pol Pot's, blah blah blah dream come true.
Anne Frank wouldn't last 24 hours today. (She lasted 2 years in Nazi occupied Holland.)
You should stop seeking. You might find it, but there isn’t the remotest chance that you’d recognize it.
You are too ignorant to actually offer up anything other than mindless rhetoric.
At least I know my history … and those who forget the past are bound to repeat it. I know where you are going.
I’ll be out of the country before then.
This comment section is “social media”. You are on it now. Booga booga, communist airhead.
No it’s not. It’s a public forum.
Social media knows EXACTLY who you are and where you are. EG… Gimme your cellphone number.
IP addresses are not reliable… and “spoofed.” :)
helluva heads up, reply to you, ended up as a main post, geesh
https://theintercept.com/2016/10/11/in-the-democratic-echo-chamber-inconvenient-truths-are-recast-as-putin-plots/?comments=1#comment-294592
I find the media to be most responsible for the mess that is the 2016 election. They did little to derail Trump’s campaign until they realized they might be held accountable for his disaster. Now, because of the imminent danger, any truth that is critical of Clinton can’t be discussed. The Democratic Party has embraced paranoia as a campaign strategy. Thank goodness for outlets like The Intercept for revealing the truth.
This was all orchestrated by the elites behind the Clinton campaign from the very beginning.
“They [the media] did little to derail Trump’s campaign […]”
Paging Dr. Goebbels. Stat.
BS;The media has been in the tank for the HB since day one,and if they put Trump on the front page,it was only to disparage him.
This meme of MSM creation is total garbage,as we the people,and Donald Trumps words of wisdom(yes) are what got him this far,and hopefully into the WH.Yeah,the hell bitch might have though him her easiest foil,but as any rational human knows,her thinking processes are shite,as are her zionist plot masters.
Never has such group think propaganda been issued to US as reality in our nations history,it’s worse than the Iraq garbage that got US into this never ending war for zion.
And the Russians sure aint the Iraqis.
Great expose on Democratic Party media and the dangers of a cowering electorate whose only purpose is to get their candidate to win. The uninformed, cheerleading Democrats are just as dangerous as Trump supporters. For evidence of their absence of insight and susceptibility to propaganda, take a look at the Facebook page with nearly 300.000 members HILLARY CLINTON 2016 FOR LIKE-MINDED AND INTELLIGENT PEOPLE. Me thinks thou protest too much.
So surreal, the msm playing the role of Gandalf exorting the whole Shire to hand the ring of power over to a female Sauron!
Trump, a bridge troll who wants to fry the dissidents..
Hillary, a fellow troll who prefers them boiled n tender..
There’s no third option folks, no other candidates exist…
Say Glenn, great piece, it’d be lovely if you could write about how censored and non policy related these debates have been as well. It’s been infuriating how willing people are willing to accept a rigged election because Trump is Trump. We’re accepting being scared into a vote that if you’re sane and logical makes absolutely no sense.
I second a bit of that – it would be nice if the utter weirdness of the limited choice that the “land of the free” has for its highest office were just regularly laid out until the most stressed-out, decision-fatigued single parent that doesn’t even have the time to look into it couldn’t escape the obviousness of the invisible hand funneling :b
“But come January, Democrats will continue to be the dominant political faction in the U.S.”
Where do you get this formulation? The Democrats control the White House, but the Congress and Senate are GOP and the Supreme court is being hijacked by the GOP to continue their 20 years of dominance. In the states, the majority of governorships and statehouses are GOP. Where is the Democratic dominance? Living in Texas, it feels like the Democrats have nothing except the White House to speak of.
you are all so out of the loop
trump is going to create a parallel covert economy after the coronation, hilary will only be able to tax all her friends who have moved their companies out of the US
there will be a massive implosion of the media/political/nonprofit/bigname.edu confab, as they run out of funny money
trump will rule supreme with casinos, i hope to become a dealer in wells NV someday
Where are the RNC emails, the Trump emails, the Ryan emails ,the McConnell emails? The reputations of wiki leaks and you will be as tainted as Trumps after this election. I for one no longer trust either of you.
This is hilarious:
Um, no, Sandra. Wikileaks and The Intercept exist for the purpose of exposing what the powerful try to keep secret. They have acquitted themselves extremely well there.
Hillary Clinton is almost certainly going to be the next POTUS — and she will be that after a hideously malignant bit of plotting by the DNC to sell this lying warmonger to the public at the expense of the better candidate.
My only regret — and it is huge — is that the Goldman Sachs excerpts and all the rest didn’t come out last March. If it had, we might be looking at Nominee Bernie Sanders easily beating Donald Trump, both in poll after pol and on November 8.
Now we work to ensure that Hillary is a one-term POTUS. Let’s hope that leaks about Hillary’s wretched and lying behavior come out time and time again over the next four years, as well as leaks of various neoliberal asshats at the DNC.
Use it all to primary the fuck out of Hillary.
>>> Now we work to ensure that Hillary is a one-term POTUS. Let’s hope that leaks about Hillary’s wretched and lying behavior come out time and time again over the next four years, as well as leaks of various neoliberal asshats at the DNC
<<<
I think Hillary is being "installed." The vote count doesn't even matter. Polls don't matter. Dead Ambassadors don't even matter.
Why? The Clintons are in the middle of all this stuff. Everyone they know have unclean hands.
If Trump gets elected, Trump has already said it: "Special Prosecutor."
Clintons and their henchmen will gladly blow up the world to save their own skins.
Trump is not going to be elected.
>>> Trump is not going to be elected. <<<
You are probably right.
That's why Hillary can stay at home most of the time. She's waiting "her turn" like Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan. After Massoud was assassinated (on September 9, 2001), Karzai was "installed" 30 days later.
The people behind Hillary have a lot of practice in the art of crime, corruption, covert ops, and coups.
“Wikileaks and The Intercept exist for the purpose of exposing what the powerful try to keep secret?”
Come on Mona, it should be obvious by now that the Intercept exists to spread Pierre Omidyar’s views behind the cover of Scahill-Greenwald-Poitras; it’s become grossly transparent and really pathetic. Sure, this is also how every other American media outlet operates, but the fact that the Intercept tried to sell itself as “independent” and “adversarial” is particularly insulting when it is really much more like Bloomberg News (at least he puts his name on his news outlet, unlike Omidyar).
Really, Omidyar’s Ebay News would be a far more appropriate title for this outlet. This isn’t to say they don’t publish decent articles now and then – so does Bloomberg – but claiming it’s about “exposing what the powerful try to keep secret” is just ludicrous, considering that the Intercept has been regurgitating US State Department talking points on Syria’s White Hats, etc. etc.
A case in point is the Intercept’s refusal to go into the pipeline war behind the Syria conflict, right in line with their refusal to cover the Warren Buffet-led Dakota Access Pipeline and the protests over it, clearly an issue of ignoring “what the powerful try to keep secret” – and most likely, that’s because Warren Buffett and Omidyar are part of the same philanthropic billionaire circle, and pals don’t like to embarrass each other, plus it might make Clinton look bad.
That’s what happens when you tie yourself to a billionaires’ purse strings; and obviously, the billionaires who run the Brazilian media and who engineered the political coup down there operate the same way. It’s a really crappy media ownership model, any rational person would admit this.
apparently Omidyar’s views are incoherent then.
Christ what a drag it would be to write for an audience like this.
“Yeah sure the other articles were great but you didn’t write about ______ so I can tell you are a bought-and-paid for stooge!!!!”
Unlike most of your comments, this one lacks verifiability.
Perhaps you could provide some back up for these assertions?
I, too, have concerns about the opacity of The Intercept and its business model (at least as far as it not being explained well on this website) would appreciate your input.
One-term POTUS? “Primary the fuck out of Hillary”? Don’t delude yourself. She has suborned justice and law enforcement, and the media are her lapdogs. There will be no accountability if she is President and she’ll be in for 8 years. God knows how much further damage she’ll do to national institutions and public life during that time.
You should definitely hack them and leak them to wiki leaks, you’d restore some trust in the process, too.
Glenn falls for the same scam. He proposes that the media companies are legitimate, but equally inept sources such as Infowars are somehow circumspect?
This is not a rational thought, it’s group think mentality.
News can come from a variety of sources. It’s the job of the journalist to sift through it and find the facts that need to be told, regardless of political affiliation.
Thanks for this article, however. It’s refreshing to see people who are not so blind and you are one of the few good ones on the liberal end Glenn.
The implication is that Trump doesn’t stick to what are regarded as “socially acceptable” sources, not necessarily that Infowars and white supremacist sources are strictly untruthful.
Nailed it on the head Glenn. I may be on the late-train to this, but count me in to the list of people who have lost all trust in the big media(CNN, NBC, ABC, Fox, New York Times). They created Trump and now they are destroying him. Unbelievable.
Following the 2nd debate, PBS interviewed a Trump advisor, Boris Epshteyn, who explained lucidly with a Russian accent what he thought Trump intended to say about foreign affairs during the debate. Then there was Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign manager, who previously advised Russian business interests for many years. Then there was Trump Junior’s statement that they make lots of money dealing with Russians. Then there are the many times Trump has praised Vladimir Putin as a strong leader and someone to be admired. Also his repeated gloating over what he thinks Putin said about Trump being “brilliant.” Not to mention the increasingly vile behavior of the self-absorbed Julian Assange, who has become a Russian stooge. Glenn seems oversensitive on this point of Russian influence on the 2016 US presidential campaign. Suggest you change the subject, Glenn, to something more worthy of your skills.
It’s probably a few days too late to reach you.
But if you read the article you’ll see that none of what you said is evidence about whether the Russians provided fabricated information that WikiLeaks passed along.
Trump’s professed admiration for Putin is old news and has nothing to do with this article.
Mr. Greenwald, On the off-chance that you read comments, Thank you for this, and thank you for being the last, best hope for journalism.
Amen to this. Eichenwald is a joke. He’s still going at it on Twitter, calling everyone else dumb, disparaging Bernie Sanders supporters, and saying that he’s been misinterpreted, milking this for publicity in the process. He’s everything wrong with journalism. Glenn is doing some fantastic work here.
The New McCarthyism’s the same as the old McCarthyism. The Clintonistas are taking a page from the Roy Cohn handbook and it is truly frightening.
Have read a number of pro-democartic party/Clinton sites, a sizable number of posters want official Congressional investigations into Trump and his advisers ties to the Putin. Larry King has Trump on for one segment and King and his show are Kremlin stooges and provocateurs. Yes, Larry King has been seriously accused of being a Putin agent. It would not surprise me to see some sort of neo-HUAC activities start up if democrats win either House or Senate–supported no doubt not gopers also.
You’re doing exactly the same thing Russia does: You’re filtering messages. Yes, i tweeted that. And i later explained why i came to that conclusion, apart from the article linked by me. WikiLeaks releases mails obtained by Russia. These mails have been edited (at least the time stamps have been messed with). What’s more, they have been filtered. We only get to see what Russia (i don’t think this is Assange’s work) want us to see. So what we probably don’t get to see is an Email that says “oh, btw., forget that last email, i was so totally wrong”. That’s why i still think that it’s not the brightest idea to believe everything you read on Wikileaks.
Source please?
It’s probably not a good idea to believe everything you read from any source.
Kudos to you for admitting you were wrong though.
Prove that they aren’t, Nate! Wikileaks admits it obtained these emails through a third party, who they won’t disclose. We have no way of knowing whether they’ve been tampered with.
When you’re selling stolen goods, the burden of proof is on you to prove they’re legit.
They may indeed be legit, or a mixture of legit and fabrications, but it’s certainly fair to question their legitimacy. It’s honestly amazing to me that Glenn expects us to just accept these things. We knew the Snowden leaks were legit because we actually had Snowden telling us he took the data.
Glenn notably doesn’t deny that the leak came via the Russian government. I think that says it all. I simply don’t trust information coming through a third party that demands to remain anonymous to such an extent. Please don’t bring up the pentagon papers source being anonymous, because we knew in that case that the source was a government official.
Anne… are you that dumb?
Tell you what: Please go hack someone/thing and then announce it to the world.
I’m sure Snowden would enjoy your company.
The DNC leak(not hack) most likely came from Seth Rich, who was quickly killed. He was a part of the DNC.
“When you’re selling stolen goods, the burden of proof is on you to prove their legit.”
I assume you simply forgot to preface your assertion with this “I believe long-standing American criminal law should be altered to be consistent with the following principle: ‘when you’re selling…”. Whether did not forgot to add this but intentionally attempted to mislead everyone or you were simply negligent in adding the
preface (or ignorant of long standing American criminal law principles regarding the proof burden, mistake of fact and specific intent) please issue a correction.
“[…] it’s not the brightest idea to believe everything you read on Wikileaks.”
It’s not the brightest idea to believe everything you read. Period.
Additional scrutiny of the Eichenwald/Newsweek article:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/11/the-trump-putin-link-that-wasnt/
And http://reason.com/blog/2016/10/11/newsweek-putin-trump-wikileaks
Meanwhile, Eichenwald is getting seriously fired up!
https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/785878459033595905
Drawing an equivalence between the “grave dangers” posed by Trump’s campaign and the “group-think righteousness” of HRC’s circle – or possible all circles of human beings – is ingenious. You are too smart for that. What’s your agenda Doc?
“because anyone supporting Hillary Clinton wants to believe that this is true”
This is untrue. I was also initially concerned about what Eichenwald had written (and someone in the Twittersphere set me straight, BTW), but, as an avid supporter of Senator Sanders’ position, I was far more concerned with what this said about Wikileaks’ integrity, Trump, and Russian meddling than what it might have yielded about Clinton.
Look at this from another angle: us Sanders supporters routinely read The Intercept because it was unabashed in knocking the Clintons. It was great reading (and who cares if it was true? Am I right?) But then one inevitably develops the impression that The Intercept–and publications like it–merely create the echo chamber that fuels them. With the #NeverHillary cabal in full swing, quoting The Intercept to no end, it’s not difficult to detect the same “group dynamic” you warn about here.
Somehow, in this mess of an election, publications covering it have to be as vigilant about positioning what they write as their readers must be about choosing what to read.
The press interrupted coverage of a southeastern hurricane, when lots of Trump supporters would likely be watching, to play a very embarrassing 11 year old tape of the Republican candidate. Today the Guardian has an article calling his campaign a Spiraling Disaster. I’m sensing a theme.
Sarah Palin tried to warn us about the Russians, but we wouldn’t listen.
Russian novels: are they safe?
Only if you use prophylactics.
Even for Fathers and Sons?
Crime and Punishment is O.K.
“Sarah Palin tried to warn us about the Russians, but we wouldn’t listen.”
Sure, chum.
No one in the populace or the government had any suspicion that Putin was a dangerous, posturing, vain, dictator-style ruler until Palin told us that she could “see Russia.”
Go back to Cloud-Cuckooland.
Good thing we don’t have any Russians in the USA because repeating demonizing talk like this could result in hate crimes, violence, bigotry, false imprisonment, all kinds of other “othering”, war, torture, sexual torture, sexual butt torture, spying, even more butt torture, double sided forced feeding (we call this “burning the candle at both ends”), did I mention the butt torture yet?
Update:
Sorry, I meant Muslims not Russians.
Update:
Note to self–We should limit immigration of Russians. Too dangerous to let in US.
Update:
Sorry, I meant Muslims not Russians.
Update:
No, I was right the first time. (need coffee :)
Yah, some of the comments about the Russians could have been said about Muslims. You know, undermining our society. Don’t believe in democracy. Are scoundrels of various sorts.
Actually, some of the more virulent rhetoric sounds like what German Nazi officials said about the “Jewish controlled Bolsheviks” before World War II. I did find one quote that sounded like some of the more extremist opinion writers of the NYTimes. Of course I didn’t bookmark the quote. A recent local article comparing how immigrant Jews were treated mirrored much of the Nazi suspicions that they were non-Christian anti-capitalist communists. Putin like the Bolsheviks, is a threat to the West. The Jews to Americans during the time are what Muslims are to Trump. And now we have democrats worry about the Russian threat, and gopers worried about the Muslim threat.
I’m a European and an avid reader of U.S. political media. I’ve always known a large part of the American conservative media was propaganda-driven, which is no secret to most of us. I used to think the majority of the American liberal media were the more honest ones, or at least tried to stick to facts instead of pure narrative(propaganda). That perception has been shattered now.
At this stage the liberal media may actually be worse off compared to the conservative media. The conservative media has a lot of political disagreement between journalists/pundits and individualism still seems to be a thing. The liberal media is morphing into something very different. Aside from the obvious party propaganda it seems the vast majority of the liberal journalists and pundits are all in the same ideological echo chamber and afraid to make a misstep (have the wrong opinions) . If you go against Clinton or one of the liberal causes in any way you can expect to be excommunicated by most of your peers.
Since the liberal media is much more powerful as the conservative media in the U.S. this is a very dangerous development and can potentially be disastrous for the country when Clinton will be elected. When journalists become mouth-pieces for the people in power you have a recipe for civil unrest, especially when the people in power are distrusted already. History shows when a large part of the population feels powerless and misled by the people in power bad things happen.
“The liberal media is morphing into something very different.”
Usually you hear just a quiet little buzz, but if real danger arises, the hive will savagely sacrifice itself to protect the queen.
This hive(zion) would turn on the queen(HRC) the moment she outlives her usefulness.She is a drone from another hive.
The only thing the hive sacrifices is us.
It seems like post 9-11, with a lot of media based in NY, that they think they’re being patriotic or something. More than just freedom of speech, it seems like freedom of thought is under attack. Bill Clinton said something at the Democratic convention about winning in the “Mind Field.” What the hell is that about?
Oh,they are patriotic alright,but for Israel not US.
Jesus Christ.
What do people need ,electric shock treatment?
Nukes will do it.
Then you can all kiss your ass goodbye.
She’s the one!woo woo!
Your being European is irrelevant. Your understanding of US media is non-existent.
At best, the US MSM is centrist. It is all corporate -owned, and that influences its coverage.
It’s only when an unalloyed, dangerous disaster like Trump comes along that media coverage gives the illusion of having a liberal bent.
You could just as well claim that the GOP politicians who are distancing themselves from Trump are acting like “liberals,” and you’d be just as wrong.
“Since the liberal media is much more powerful as [sic] the conservative media in the U.S….”
That ridiculous comment shows how little you understand US media.
Kurt Eichenwald, as the Brits say, has previous:
Based on my observations of Trump over the past 20 years, I think the only way he would have been hospitalized would have been by involuntary commission, which I doubt happened. Do I think he is pathological and in need of treatment? Absolutely. I interviewed Schizophrenics on my job who comported themselves with more reason than I have seen him exhibit.
Schizophrenics can be charming and interesting.
The best-bet diagnosis for Trump is either narcissistic personality disorder or borderline personality disorder (or a combination), along with dull-normal intelligence.
Sufferers of that combination of disorder and limited ability are almost never charming or interesting.
I doubt treatment would help. Too late.
Well, maybe anesthesia.
I may not live until the DSM-VI is released, but I can imagine the addition of a new diagnosis, i.e., Donald Trump Personality Disorder. I pity any psychiatrist or psychologist who would attempt to do a Mental Status Exam (MSE) with him. For example, I have copies of those exams performed by a forensic psychologist and forensic psychiatrist on John Wayne Gacy. IMO Gacy had them eating out of his hand. In spite of best efforts, it is still an inexact science, unfortunately.
>>> O Gacy had them eating out of his hand. In spite of best efforts, it is still an inexact science, unfortunately.<<<
So did Charles Manson and Ted Bundy. Trump does not have the "manipulation skills" that the Clintons have.
You can read Manson's court transcript (at sentencing), here: http://www.mansondirect.com/transa.html
Oops, it should read that I have SEEN copies of the Gacy work-up. Many years ago, possibly when I was working on my PsyD. Too long ago.
>>> Oops, it should read that I have SEEN copies of the Gacy work-up. Many years ago, possibly when I was working on my PsyD. Too long ago.<<<
You can't really learn about psychopaths from books.
Try it in person. You will be in for a very rude awakening.
————-
I don't need a PhD in Psychology issued by the Tavistock Institute of Psycho.
I come from the school of hard knocks…. where the action really takes place. I can spot psycho stuff in a matter of seconds to minutes, now.
Trump is not psycho. Narcissistic,… probably. But, not psycho.
I’m impressed that you know more about the subject, in spite of me dealing face-to-face with these individuals for many years. You are special!
Someday, I’ll have to tell you about a Borderline Personality person I had to deal with.
Nearly cost me my life.
leftist nonsense.
Somebody who disagrees with me. Therefore they must be mentally ill.
Ha! Look at all the “radicals” and “critical thinkers” tossing around psychiatric diagnoses. Psychiatry: the most intellectually shoddy and oppressive of all contemporary disciplines.
Why don’t you turn your gaze to crooked Clinton, a criminal congenital liar who has corrupted the FBI, the Department of Justice, the intelligence agencies and God knows how many other organs of state? She and her husband have pathologically transformed genuinely liberating movements of social justice and civil rights into opportunistic identity politics. She’s ready to hit her stride on day one in the Oval Office, standing up to Putin and doling out favors to her cronies and donors. I know who’s the more dangerous of the two.
>>> Why don’t you turn your gaze to crooked Clinton, a criminal congenital liar who has corrupted the FBI, the Department of Justice, the intelligence agencies and God knows how many other organs of state? She and her husband have pathologically transformed genuinely liberating movements of social justice and civil rights into opportunistic identity politics. She’s ready to hit her stride on day one in the Oval Office, standing up to Putin and doling out favors to her cronies and donors. I know who’s the more dangerous of the two.<<<
I would agree with you about psychiatry in general.
However, Bill and Hillary and others are the criminals that they are because they really are psychos.
Does anyone doubt that Charles Manson or Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer are absolute psychos??? No.
Same goes for Bill/Hillary et al.
However, there is ONE difference: The Hillary Clan are HIGH FUNCTIONING psychopaths who are hell bent on ruling the world. Bundy, Manson, Dahmer, etc were LOW FUNCTIONING…
LOW FUNCTIONING: only seeking to maim and torture and enslave a small group at a time –
HIGH FUNCTIONING — political in order to maim torture and enslave entire societies at a time — with sovereign immunity — with the Military Might of the State at their disposal.
And Clinton is your picture-perfect of altruism…. Could you also tell a thing or two from “psychological” stuff about your political idol – Bibi? Is it Clinton’s total allegiance to Israel’s cause that makes you so fanatically fond of Hillary and so viciously antagonistic towards Donald?
You are a complete moron. As one of my favorite insults has it, you couldn’t pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel.
I’d suggest you pull you head out of your ass, but it’s probably better for all of us if you leave it there and, eventually, suffocate.
Eichenwald has always been a dishonest spin artist for corporate and government interests; his “Conspiracy of Fools” tries to blame the Enron debacle on a few lower-level operatives while exonerating Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling and their many corporate partners (when really, the Enron energy market-rigging scam of 2001 was just a preplay of the much larger financial market-rigging scam of 2008 led by Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, HSBC, GE & Co.)
It’s a pattern you see with these NYT writers – someone comes out with a really good book on a subject – (like “The Smartest Guys in the Room”, by Bethany McClean & Peter Elkind, by far the best book on Enron, http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/113576.The_Smartest_Guys_in_the_Room ) and then these corporate-government hacks like Eichenwald come out with their own watered-down version.
Similarly, his “500 Days” about the post 9/11 months contains a shit train of lies about how Bruce Ivins carried out the anthrax attacks, a regurgitation of FBI talking points that are absolute nonsense, as well as a complete failure to examine how Cheney, Bush and the neocons cooked up all the lies about links between 9/11 and Saddam, or the bogus WMD claims – basically implying that it was all an ‘honest mistake.’
In other words, Kurt Eichenwald specializes in the kind of dishonest government-corporate propaganda that the New York Times has become so well known for promoting; this latest effort is entirely unsurprising.
Kurt Eichenwald has always been an opportunistic journo. His open servility in support of Clinton (the Butcheress of Libya) made Kurt Eichenwald into a paragon of presstitute.
Let’s see if Mr. Greenwald can answer this question: regarding the public interest to publish Watergate style illegally obtained documents intended as a smear and to give the advantage to another candidate as is the ethical rule for determining whether to print such material. Let’s see, Mr. Greenwald, answer this: is it in the public interest of a poor black family living in the Deep South to publish emails of one party to the advantage of a violent racist who is right now inspiring deadly violence toward poor minorities? Is it in the interest of Muslims living in this country to publish emails of one party to the advantage of a violent racist who wants to ban them and to kill the family of terrorist and bomb the hell out of them? Is it in the interest of undocumented Latino’s to the advantage of a violent racist who says he will create a deportation force, rip apart families and ship them out of the country? Is it in the public interest that this illegally obtained “evidence” is being used to the advantage of a psychopathic, impulsive, violent, man who plans to jail his opponent if he wins and who will have access to the nuclear codes and his campaign is collusion with Mr. Assange?
Let me answer this for you, Mr. Greenwald: no, it is not. It’s only to your advantage, not the public’s, because you are white and you are an elite and because you are funded by a billionaire and have nobody to answer to and because you personally hate Hillary Clinton.
Ah, a new Revise the Record account heard from. But the scripted talking points are no better from this one. We’ve seen all this shit from Revise the Record paid trolls before:
” to publish Watergate style illegally obtained documents”
“you are white and you are an elite ”
But hey — couldn’t you work in “White Messiah” and that Glenn and/or others of us are “trust funders?” Shape up there, buster! You have a job to do!
>is it in the public interest of a poor black family living in the Deep South to publish emails
Absolutely it is. Poor blacks are the ones mostly likely to die in one of Hillary’s many wars and be condemned to a lifetime of debt-servitude by Hillary’s Wall Street masters.
> Is it in the interest of Muslims living in this country to publish emails of one party to the advantage of a violent racist who wants to ban them and to kill the family of terrorist and bomb the hell out of them?
It absolutely is, especially if they have any relatives from Libya, Iraq, Yemen, or any one of the many other countries that have seen millions dead because of Hillary’s zeal for war.
Trump is a racist and a bigot, but if you think that’s worse then being a corrupt warmonger with the blood of millions already on her hands, you are part of the problem.
Man, I’m a working class Black dude from one of the poorest cities in America (Gary, IN) and I don’t support the corporate media’s slimeball tactics to support Hillary Clinton.
Yes, Trump is an assclown, but Hillary called us “Superpredators” and supported her husband’s policy that put millions of us in prison (not me, but people in my community). She supported Welfare Reform, which threw millions of us in the street basically. She supported NAFTA which helped to destroy cities like mine and other Black cities like Detroit, Cleveland, Flint, etc. . .
She’s supported and acted out a racist foreign policy in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Honduras, and Haiti.
Don’t sit here and try to play “White savior” for us.
The Clinton’s have don’t plenty of racist shit that has killed tons of us off.
Donald Trump’s immigration policy for Mexico is basically what Bill Clinton’s was in the mid ’90s.
Hillary Clinton voted for a border fence which has the same intent and purpose as Donald Trump’s border wall.
Stop trying to pretend that you White liberals are doing it for us. You are not.
This is about gay marriage and abortion for y’all. This is not about being outraged by “racism”. If it was about racism, y’all would be against the racist foreign policy that Hillary has perpetuated all these damned years and the racist domestic policy where she called poor people on welfare “deadbeats”.
You’re not caping for us. Stop pretending.
@thekhemistlives
>>> Man, I’m a working class Black dude from one of the poorest cities in America (Gary, IN) and I don’t support the corporate media’s slimeball tactics to support Hillary Clinton… Stop trying to pretend that you White liberals are doing it for us. You are not. <<<
We are both human beings, brother. I don't care what 'color' someone is. Treat everyone with mutual respect and don't intentionally seek to take advantage of anyone…
The world would be a relatively peaceful place. (Note that I said, "relatively"… because I'm a realist and know that Utopia does not exist.)
I'll come to your aid and defense, anytime. And, I'd hope you'd come time mine. The way things ought'a be. Right?
dont take this personally, or condemn me for passing the facts, but it is quite clear that Hellary Clinton is a demonic back-stabbing sadistic lying two-faced genocide-supporting coup-backing bribe-taking wallstreet-worshipping… SHALL I CONTINUE?
Glenn, you honestly don’t see an issue with Trump parroting a false Sputnik article within hours of it going public? You’re acting as if that is perfectly normal behavior for an American political candidate, to source your news from a Putin mouth-piece. How did he even know about it? This, in your words, is “extremely trivial”? I think people have a right to be bothered by this.
There are becoming fewer and fewer venues for truly objective, investigative pieces. The Intercept is one of a handful left – bless you, Glen Greenwald!!
the hillary supporters have joined the tea party members in their ability to put all reason aside and latch onto anything that furthers their beliefs.
i was shocked to see how easily lead the republicans were but seeing democrats acting the same way is mind-boggling.
listening to democrats claiming hillary is not a liar is as bad as listening to the republicans in 2008 who were saying sarah palin wasn’t an idiot.
Thank God someone pointed this out.
“the media” (don’t call us that) LOVES to idolize Murrow and pretend they would have stood up to McCarthy.
They won’t even stand up to this “red menace!” fear mongering.
The implied Manchurian Candidate idea is so overt, they might as well be called out on it.
Trump is a retrograde anti-liberal but I don’t want it to become the convenient refrain that if you are against HillaryCo you are in league with Russia.
Most people cannot organize a political position without reference to an enemy.
I agree with the gist of what Greenwald is getting at here, he does himself no favors by continuing to deny that the russians are are interfering in the election.
So? So Russia’s interfering in the election. So what? How is it worse this time? Because it’s more overt? News flash, jeeb: every major power tries to get their mudhooks into our elections. Israel has been very publicly pushing buttons on our elections for decades; nobody says boo. Foreigners contribute to U.S. election superPACs. Do you think China, with its incredibly sophisticated and successful state-sponsored hacking ops, is not also manipulating elections toward both Presidential and down-ballot candidates who could support sweetheart deals for them?
An American dissident (Snowden) has received political asylum in Russia. An American “election” is taking place in which the message is doubled down upon with each passing day: there is only One Possible Candidate for whom you Must Vote. American military maneuvers that could lead to a global war are ramped up quietly in Syria and Eastern Europe while being constantly misrepresented as responses to “Russian aggression”. Any damning information that comes out about the One True Candidate is called Russian propaganda. Over to the side, a dirty little war is being subsidized by America in Yemen, portrayed as an ethnic conflict between a modern government and feral tribal “Houthis” (not an ethnicity, actually, not that you’d know from almost all coverage of it). Sure, it’s the cold war all over again but this time the U.S. is the Evil Empire. No doubt the would-be oligarchs are slavering over all the spoils in the offing: whatever the disastrous outcome of the coming election, the disaster itself is the point.
>>> Sure, it’s the cold war all over again but this time the U.S. is the Evil Empire. No doubt the would-be oligarchs are slavering over all the spoils in the offing: whatever the disastrous outcome of the coming election, the disaster itself is the point. <<<
Reality: The Border between Syria and Turkey is the Maginot Line of WW III.
The current situation over there started officially in 2012. I predicted this in 2012.
What happened? A battle of words between Moscow and Western Europe over natural gas supplies to Europe. Then threats…
When Russia was threatened, the prior Russian President (Medvedev) said, paraphrased, "If you move your boats into the Black Sea… It's on."
The Olympics were hosted in Russia.
US put US Navy boats armed with cruise missiles into the Black Sea to "protect the Olympics" from terrorists. Uh… Huh.
How do you protect an athlete in a hotel or on a gym floor with cruise missiles?
Answer: You don't.
Putin's Palace is located on Beach Front Property on the shore of the Black Sea.
He's trying to keep cruise missiles off his front lawn.
I know I can trust journalism like this and Wikileaks, and that’s all I need.You align with my conscience and you save me a lot of time. Thank you Glenn Greenwald!
Look, you can’t “trust” journalism, period. The best you can do is download a dozen different articles from unconnected sources on a given topic/story, compare and contrast them, look for logical flaws in their arguments, look for what is left out, the obvious biases and inconsistencies, look at who owns the outlet the journalist is writing for, what kind of editors they have, their past behavior, and draw conclusions accordingly.
For example, here’s an article from a Russian in Bloomberg on the Putin-Clinton issue (Bloomberg is a Wall Street-friendly pro-Clinton outlet with a decent record on business-related journalism):
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-10-11/i-m-an-anti-putin-russian-and-clinton-makes-me-nervous
Makes many good points, but consider this line:
Clinton has spoken many times about the need to undermine and contain dictators.
Except the Saudi dictatorship, the Qatari dictatorship, the various African dictatorships masquerading as democracies which take orders from Washington, etc. etc. Anyone familiar with Bloomberg knows that these are taboo topics at that outlet, however – just as anyone familiar with the Intercept should know that in-depth discussion of the economic fossil fuel-centric warfare being waged between the Russia-Iran-Syria alliance and the U.S.-Saudi-Qatari-Israeli alliance is a taboo topic here, just as the Dakota pipeline conflict in the United States is – and, similarly, the role of USAID and the US State Department in propaganda operations in Syria and Ukraine, American support for ISIS and Al Qaeda efforts to overthrow Assad from 2012 onwards as well as in the Ukrainian coup, are also taboo topic in all American media outlets, including the Intercept – with the exception of some odd sources, like the oil industry newsletters, which follow such issues.
In particular, the position of Turkey – a potential Russia partner now that the extent of the U.S. role in the attempted coup in Turkey is gradually being exposed – may have fundamentally changed the picture in the region, economic warfare-wise. The U.S., just to save face, might respond to this turn of events with violence, who knows? This is a very dangerous point in time; people should be telling their representatives to put the brakes on any reckless military agenda in Syria.
Bottom line? There is no such thing as a “trusted reliable source” when it comes to journalism (or HUMINT). Anyone who relinquishes critical independent analysis of each and every story they read is just a sucker-in-waiting.
If you want a reliable trust-based relationship that never needs to be questioned, get a dog.
here here.. couldn’t be made any better – double check any facts and triple check any sources – trust nothing other than your own critical thinking based on YOUR own info gathering – question what you see and use your own brains
“get a dog”
Presumably, you don’t mean Lapdog, do you? ;)
What you are saying by “Don’t trust someone” is “Don’t trust anyone.”
You imply that all sources are suspect. If so, it’s impossible to know the truth.
The truth is not an average of all the sources. It’s likely to be present in one place and completely absent in another.
“Independent analysis” is a fiction. Few of us have direct access to the sources newsgathers have, or some magical ability to just intuit when something is true or false.
I prefer to trust several reliable sources based on past experience that shows their claims to have been borne out. The Intercept is one of them. They include Huffington Post, Democracy Now!, Counterpunch, and others.
Frito blocker is fine to trust The Intercept and WikiLeaks. Both have a superb track record.
Great article. I’ll be sharing this everywhere i roam.
Wait until the bombs start falling in Syria and Ukraine, aimed at Assad and the Russians. All this propaganda will start to payoff at that time for Clinton, the Democratic elite, the Pentagon, the neo-Cons and the whole deep state.
“Russian govnt: Ur screw up with my piece proves ur engaged in cyberwar to upend US election. America will fight back”
Can someone get this Eichenwald fellow a uniform so’s he can join up?
This is just further reason for people to completely abandon any shred of trust they might have had in the mainstream media. I spend at least six hours a day reading news, and even I am having a very tough time figuring out what’s true vs what’s spin. And this lack of trust is what’s feeding the Trump movement, as Trump, whatever else he may be, seems to be someone who wants to clean the augean stables of the status quo.
You may not like Trump, but this stable-cleaning is badly needed. HRC is not going to do it, and if elected, the forces that created Trump will likely only get stronger and angrier.
But Trump is a bozo. The choice in this election is between someone who will directly implement terrible everything, or someone who will be out-maneuvered into the exact same outcome within 10 minutes of taking office.
Bur Clinton is a warmonger. Do you want your kids covered with radioactive dust? – I do not.
It’s one hing to be led around by the nose by the hawks and quite another to be spearheading a regime change agenda around the world, which H-Rod already is doing and has done.
>>> You may not like Trump, but this stable-cleaning is badly needed. <<<
Yup. Bona fide psychopaths rule our society. A lot of them.
We face a hard choice. Oust the psychos or disintegrate.
Trump is not a psychopath. Clintons and their minions are.
Simple. We only have one option. And it's sink or swim after that.
That's the hardcore reality of the situation — like it or not. It's actually very simple when you get rid of all the "noise" and see it for it's fundamental problem.
Psychopaths in high office.
Many years ago, I ended up running work crews with a significant portion of people who’d grown up ‘behind the iron curtain’ who told me that the way they managed to stay accurately informed despite the ‘controlled’ media they were exposed to being full of spin and propaganda was to ‘read what wasn’t there’ (basically, pay attention to the gaps in what was reported – reports about a war that only mentioned casualties from one side) because that would tip one off that the intention of the reporting was manipulation rather than information. Funny thing is that when I applied the technique to the ‘free’ media, I found myself becoming MUCH better informed, and a lot less misinformed. So, for instance, I found it puzzling how anyone could believe the whole ‘WMDs minutes from launch’ lie to be credible.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-media-sinks-new-low.aspx
The U.S. is much like the Brezhnev-era Soviet Union of the 1970s these days, when all the Russian people knew that the only thing their newspapers were good for was wrapping fish and lining catboxes.
That’s why profitability doesn’t matter, in the American media today – the owners of media outlets are willing to take losses on media, since their propaganda value is what they’re really interested in – it helps to support their more lucrative business ventures, and the ability to control the PR narrative is worth the cost.
Further evidence that the US is on path to self-imposed ruin.
Inconvenient mistakes are blowing the crap out of Wikileaks’ credibility, and yours. It’s not just the Eichenwald error, there’s been others–like different versions of the “same” email–and you know it. And Glenn, you are the last person in the effing universe to call anyone hyperbolic, hysterical, or shrill. In fact, the overhyping of the trivial crap in these already suspect emails is tedious, naive, and infantile.
And for all the great work done at The Intercept, the callowness, naivete, and apparent lack of any maturity or adult experience at the enterprise mars the reporting (and many of the comments…like minds, I guess). Your self aggrandizement and lack of discipline has gotten you attached too closely to a crank like Assange, and to a totalitarian government that is outrageously meddling in the American political process. I’m sorry for that.
Ok- what are the errors? Be specific.
Agreed. And if authenticity is not a concern, I’m curious to know how that is being ascertained, by anyone.
I know, right? If the political meddling doesn’t have a “Made in the USA” stamp on it then it is outrageous and I don’t like it one bit.
Good2go-its completely clear you are attached to the very people Glenn is presenting in this piece. At the end of your comment you are accusing Glenn of being an agent of a foreign power, Russia? The “totalitarian government” you mentioned is the current American government. Your message is confusing. Were you describing yourself? Boring comment……
Greenwald didn’t have to go beyond the comments section of this article to find the very unhinged critics he was sure would crawl out of the woodwork after its publication. Thanks for the confirmation, good2go. Not that it was needed.
Name specific errors. I’m all ears.
[crickets]
Julian Assange is biased and he has an ax to grind with Clinton. If he wants to get his credibility back then hack the Apprentice video of trump. Instead all he gives us are damaging emails about Clinton. Plus even Greenwald isn’t disputing their source. Had these emails been dropped 6 months ago when they would have helped Sanders and not trump it would have made a difference. Now , faced with the stark choice of Clinton v trump please butt out. The stakes are way to high.
Assange does not hack, he receives and disseminates information the MSM won’t touch because it challenges their narrative.
He has to go through thousands upon thousands of documents.
Why don’t you write what you really mean: “I prefer to remain ignorant”?
What’s mind-blowing is how the journalists and the media corps. they work for are willing to abandon their pose of objectivity as well as destroy what credibility they still cling to. The latest polls show that the public’s trust in the press is lower than whale shit. And yet they continue to “throw away a pearl greater than all their tribe.”
And for what? To get a corrupt and incompetent war hawk elected. I keep asking why and just can’t figure it out.
Access. Elevated status. Less likely to be eaten by the wolves.
It should be no surprise that those who have reached the upper levels of their particular profession would have no interest is altering the system that got them there in any other way than making it harder to displace them from their positions.
A very disappointing piece. I’m surprised that Glenn Greenwald, a writer who is so astute when dealing with the work of Western intelligence services, would be so dense and filled with denial when looking at the handiwork of a hostile intelligence service. It’s a mistake to look at this phenomenon through the lens of a partisan battle, because it’s about much more than that.
It’s very easy to think you’re seeing reds under the bed and ghosts in the mist, but if you want to really know what is happening then you’re going to need evidence.
@ Scott Horton
would be so dense and filled with denial when looking at the handiwork of a hostile intelligence service.
Really? Prove, with links to demonstrable proof, that even one document from the most recent Wikileaks archive is the “handiwork of a hostile intelligence service.”
We’ll all wait, and thanks in advance.
Your right, it’s about the lack of accuracy and journalistic integrity, not a partisan battle, from too many purported mainstream influential American journalists. That’s precisely Glenn’s point.
And look, America’s economy is anywhere from 7X to 35X as large as Russia’s depending on the measure employed. America’s per capita GDP is about 3X as large as Russia’s.
So what’s more likely, Russia has the technological and economic might to actually be behind all these purported “hacks” and/or it isn’t? Or if it is responsible then it means the literally 10-100X what America spends on “cyber security” is just another bloated line item of wasted American taxpayer’s dollars being ineffectually used and/or flagrantly wasted or stolen because we can even stop the hapless Russians from hacking our leading politicians e-mail accounts?
And Jesus fucking Christ step out of the Cold War mindset, stop red-baiting and fear mongering Russia like it was actually some sort of threat to America. The only threat Russia poses to America is if America’s politicians are dumb enough to attack something on Russia’s border that it actually does have a legitimate “security interest” in. Or actually doing something stupid like bombing Russian military personnel or its armaments inside Russia.
Russia/Putin haven’t been doing anything because they don’t need to do anything.
This year’s political circus is funny and entertaining to Putin. He’s also prepared himself for the worst. He sees America going thru the end of the Glasnost/perestroika period that ended culminated in a brief military coup in Russia in 1993 with Yeltsin.
@ Scott Horton
Still waiting. What’s taking you so long to find that oh so solid proof of the “handiwork of a hostile intelligence service”?
Totally inappropriate to claim Trump’s going to be a dangerous President when the war hawks are all behind Hillary. You’re not allowed to declare “sin” on someone who hasn’t committed one. Trump is thus far innocent of such projections you thrust upon him. Obama is far more dangerous. Stop the mind control.
“Democrats will continue to be the dominant political faction in the U.S. — more so than ever —”
Worth pointing out that Obama entered the Oval Office when Democrats controlled both the House and the Senate; in the case of the latter, they were just shy of a filibuster-proof majority.
So I’m interested to know what scenario you see Democratic dominance being “more so than ever”? 2009 would be a hard level to top.
This exactly.
This “dominance” is even less apparent as you go to the state level, as 23 states have both chambers of their legislative branch as well as their executive branch controlled by Republicans, there are only 7 states for which this can be said of the Democrats. More to the point, the capacity to engage in these journalistic shenanigans are orthogonal to whatever “dominance” (real or imagined) is imputed on either party, both of which are worthy of scrutiny regardless of the letter next to the name of the President.
There is a less easily measurable factor of timidity, plus a certain degree of justifiable disorder that unfortunately also makes it hard to carry the vote. A room full of Democrats is a room full of opinions. A room full of Republicans is a room full of obedient employees. I’ve said before, the Republicans really ought to make their congress seatholders wear chicken hats or something so that if constituents are tempted to write them they understand they’re dealing with the help, not with the management.
I don’t know whether or not Vladimir Putin knows about Glenn Greenwald. I do get the feeling that if he learned that Greenwald helped expose the NSA’s espionage program, he’d think “This Greenwald character must not be such a bad guy,”…until learning that Greenwald is in a relationship with a man.
In the meantime, I recommend watching Samantha Bee’s clip spoofing Drumpf’s fantasy of sexual assault.
Is it similar to Bill Clinton’s sexual assaults of which he’s been accused by several women ? And wtf as any of that to do with the topic at hand? Geezus, try harder, Hill-shill.
The worst part is you probably get paid to say these things. Corrupt the wrecklord.
The election is reaching fever pitch now and people are becoming increasingly blind to anything other than the purity of their own candidate. The same thing happened here in the UK with Brexit. By the end of the referendum campaign it was like being stuck inside a crack den at 3am when unreality has really started to take hold. The spell will break for many once the election is over and the comedown has begun, but there’ll be plenty of die-hards on both sides for whom the election hysteria triggered a predisposition to paranoid delusions. Those people are lost to us indefinitely.
The UK heralded the post-trust era in politics and now the US is jumping right on the bandwagon. Welcome aboard.
Post-truth*
I feel sorry for you, having to make your way in life among all the die-hard, intellectually impoverished peasants. For some reason I have a feeling that your station in life is pretty comfortable.
I love this:
“group-think righteousness”
How utterly appropriate to our current political landscape.
Not only is it an apt description of these hyper-partisan Clinton supporters, it could just as easily be applied to the Social Justice Warriors infesting college campuses. It would also be an entirely appropriate label for the pro-life movement, BLM and so many other associations of individuals who cling unquestioningly to their particular brand of dogma.
I’m going to re-use this(with attribution) until it becomes part of the common vernacular.
“… what Glenn Greenwald described as ‘group-think righteousness’ … ” GTR
Group think is applicable to everybody: Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, and Green. Nobody escapes it but at best can avoid it with a conscious effort. If you pigeonhole yourself into consuming news from few non-diffuse sources, you are much more likely to fall victim to it. The book “The Outrage Industry: Political Opinion Media and the New Incivility” touches upon the group think dynamic through the lens of outrage media.
As a left-leaner, its rather depressing to see the death of free thought in politics, something my own party is clearly not immune to.
Good article Glenn. Eichenwald had done some good work up to this point, including the Cuba article, but he completely jumped the shark on this one. I was perusing Twitter last night when he announced this supposed bombshell and your assessment of it as a conspiracy theory is spot on. I second the notion that what he paints asa nefarious corroboration with the Russians is likely just the result of some Trump acolyte forwarding to Trump the story found by following the Gateway Pundit, Infowars, Sputnik, or some other trash source.
But this isn’t representative of just some Democratic echo chamber, this is a systemic problem across all media, where journalists and their followers immediately jump to conclusions without regard for evidence. For example, the “bucket of losers” comment not only was used by Pro-Clinton supporters in an effort to discredit Wikileaks but was accepted as truth by others, despite its amateurish contents.
Here is a simpler explanation: Eichenwald is showing his absolute loyalty to the future Decider.
How perfect is this!
“group-think righteousness “
Thank you once more, Glenn, for a clear-eyed and rational article about the mass hysteria that is growing among Clinton supporters. As with the fanatical supporters of Israel, who accuse anyone who criticizes Israel’s genocidal policies toward the Palestinians of being anti-semitic, the Clinton fanatics now accuse any truths spoken or written about their girl as a Russian plot or lies promulgated by Wikileaks, which organization they also accuse of being controlled by Vladimir Putin. This is desperation, pure and simple.
Hillary supporters are like the three monkeys: see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil (about Hillary). Meanwhile, their girl is a war hawk and quite probably a sociopath as well (raucous laughter at the murder of Ghadaffi, for instance). She can’t want to have control of hot nuclear weapons in her greedy little hands. I believe she poses a far greater danger as POTUS than Trump could ever be.
As for me, I support neither of them.
Nah, it’s just too much fun to have the opportunity to brand the GOP nominee as a Russian stooge. That’s priceless. and while Likud certainly has much to answer for the one sided condemnation of BDS supporters, the definition of group think righteous, is highly suspect.
The Russians had absolutely NOTHING to do with these wikileaks.
They were in fact provided by a very brave NSA agent who was terrified to have Hillary Clinton back in a power position as this had proven to be dangerous and corrupt for everyone in contact with her and Bill. Bill and Hillary have blackmailed most every player now in office and keep files after files on peoples “dirt”, always have.
My favorite Propaganda Hillary used regarding these Leaks has to be when she had the Chairwoman of the DNC announce LOUDLY that no one should OPEN these as they were KNOWN to have a virus attached!
It is rather interesting that you’ll see articles about how Trump’s counter (you’d be in jail) to Hillary’s (justifiable) counter (I’m glad someone like you isn’t in charge) to Trump’s attack on her emails (special prosecutor) shows how he’d be a threat to democracy, and is an echo of the way government worked in (US supported, but that tidbit doesn’t get included) ‘banana republics’, but this article is the closest you’ll find to an article pointing out that the practice of declaring the revelation of information embarrassing to the leadership to be ‘foreign propaganda’ and a ‘threat to our way of life’ is the way government works in the (US supported) ME dictatorships.
Maybe President HRC can get evil Vlad to give back our Uranium (One) and get the the Clinton Foundation to give back the inter-related funds.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=2
The current candidates are the two most unpopular candidates in presidential history, the erosion of respect for the office of president started with Bush and Obama, and like never before the world is getting to see behind the curtain, and they see corruption and self-interest, double standards and bare faced lies. According to the media here, the last time the country was unified was 9/11, which is a terrifying conclusion. To assume unity because of a sense of shared grief, outrage and more dangerously a common enemy. This sets an ominous standard for unity. The media is shocked at the state of this campaign and at the same time firmly have their backs into pushing further towards the cliff. What the world should worry about is whether the extremely well armed American right wing will continue to support the now transparent facade of American democracy, or will they, now that their racism, patriotism, bigotry and frustration has been emboldened by Trump, do something terrible about it.
Bernie Sanders represented a potentially new direction for American politics, but Clinton’s lust for power made sure that road was blocked.
Mr. Greenwald. I could do the same thing Wikileaks released with the Podesta emails on a cheap paste service, submit it ‘Anonymously’ and call it a leak. I have written how I am not sold on the information because of this and how the information was very outside the norm for Wikileaks in generally. I am glad I am not the only one who has noticed this.
Ha! Current Guardian headline and subhead:
Aside from everything else, the gall of the Graun, using “praise of WikiLeaks” as a pejorative and conflating it with the term “Russian propaganda site” is just fucking outrageous.
How far they have fallen. They used to be a credible source, before turning on Wikileaks.
No. The Graun has ceased to be reliable ever since they turned against Edward Snowden.
They turned on Assange and WikiLeaks first.
There is nothing unfair or wrong about this article. You’re just getting confused.
“praise of wikileaks” is accurate, as follows:
As for the conflating wikileaks with the term Russian propaganda site, you’re confusing wikileaks with Sputnik.
Yes, Nate, “praise of WikiLeaks” is accurate, and it’s used by the Graun in a pejorative manner.
No, Nate, I’m not confusing anything. The Graun is conflating WikiLeaks and “Russian propaganda site” (or attempting to induce readers to conflate them) by juxtaposition in the subhead.
Hope this helps. :?J
If readers drew that conclusion based on the Guardian’s subheading, they’d have only themselves to blame as the article clearly distinguishes that Sputnik is the Russian-owned propaganda site.
As for it being perjorative, I just don’t see it. The author Ed Pilkington has provided solid and fair coverage of Manning and Wikileaks for years.
Pilkington doesn’t write headlines, and the Graun is fully on-board the Killary bandwagon and leading the torch and pitchfork crowd by keeping Trump demonization front, center and above the fold — usually accompanied by unflattering photographs.
Is it a false equivalency to suggest that current “flattering” photographs simply can no longer be taken of Trump or the Clintons?
And I don’t mean this in some ageist way: these weird people are stuck in very strange facial expressions and can’t seem to do anything else.
Hmmm. . .
You may have something there.
Today’s Wikileaks dump detailing how Hillary Clinton “hates everyday Americans” should put all these other leaks to rest:
http://www.infowars.com/wikileaks-bombshell-hillary-clinton-hates-everyday-americans/
Imagine that? Hillary Clinton actually “hates everyday Americans”.
Not just the “basket of deplorables and those who are irredeemable”. Not just the basement dwelling Progressives who supported Sen. Sanders.
“Everyday Americans” is the 99%!
It all makes sense when we consider her comments to Wall Street about how being so wealthy now has put her out of touch with where she used to be.
Hillary Clinton has lived in her elitist bubble for so many years that I can imagine how much disdain she has for those she is forced to hobnob with at the Iowa library functions and churches of North Carolina. No wonder she takes so many days off and keeps her “rallies” to a minimum (nobody shows up to them anyhow, compared to Trump’s rallies).
She actually NEEDS “everyday Americans” (whom she HATES!) to go out on November 8th and put a mark next to the box that says “Hillary Clinton”.
Hopefully once Mr. Trump and the moderators at the last debate confront Mrs. Clinton, “Do you actually HATE everyday Americans” as was detailed in a leaked email from the Chairman of your campaign, John Podesta?”, there will only be votes cast for Mrs. Clinton from her, her family, her Neocon backers like John McCain, Henry Kissinger, Robert Kagan and all her 1% elitist friends.
I was going to vote for Stein as a protest against Clinton and the corrupt DNC.
But now I am forced to vote for Clinton’s main opponent. At least I believe Mr. Trump genuinely “cares” about “everyday Americans” and does not support the insane idea of “regime change” against Putin which was recently detailed by NED head and arch Neocon, Carl Gershman:
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/10/07/key-neocon-calls-on-us-to-oust-putin/
Hillary is a bona fide psychopath. So is her hubby.
Look up the characteristics of psychopaths. They are intraspecies predators. Statistically, psychos make up 2% of the human species.
That’s why Hillary & company want to sit in the Oval Office. Why? So they can help Bill stick cigars in your private areas — and then smoke them. (FYI, … That’s what Bill did to Lewinsky)
You’re such a dupe.
The email from Podesta referred to the fact that Clinton hates the phrase “everyday Americans.”
“I know she has begun to hate everyday Americans, but I think we should use it once the first time she says I’m running for president because you and everyday Americans need a champion.”
It’s obvious that “we should use it” refers to the phrase, not to people. It’s too bad Podesta didn’t put quotes around “everyday Americans,” but this was a private email that no expected to go public.
I don’t care much for Clinton, but she apparently felt — as I do — that “everyday Americans” makes people sound inconsequential.
Greenwald is so right about how people just swallow whatever crap goes viral, regardless of its veracity.
Here is the problem with your article. You are merely saying their discount of the authenticity of the article implies something criminal happened. So far none of the leaks prove anything except it may cause some friction within the campaign. If you leak the emails of RNC campaign you will find far more damaging stuffs. If you release Trumps tax returns for 18 years you will find more damaging stuffs. If you release NBC tapes of Trump you will find more damaging stuffs. At the end of the day in Hillary’s case there is nothing criminal found. Everything that you find there is open to interpretation. She is running a campaign after modifying her platform to be a progressive leaning platform. So your claim that there is something damaging, surreptitious going on just because some of her surrogates discount it as fake is preposterous. As you have outlined Donald Trump is a dangerous sociopath and he cannot be in the white house. So your effort to balance the coverage will only help the creep. You have gone out of your way to make a mountain out of molehill. I also read couple of pieces targeting Hillary surrogates. You are slowly turning into a news source like Breitbart new which practices yellow journalism. Individuals who work for Hillary should not be characterized as some wicked people. I like investigative journalism. But oflate all i see opinion pieces You use the tweets that fit your narrative and paint a picture that is far from reality. Try to be objective and responsible from now on.
Glenn,… frankly, you are wrong. “Group think” is thinking as a Republican or Democrat.
Sad part of it is that we’ve gotten to this point to begin with. There are no easy answers.
Trump may not be the answer… but, I believe he’s a good start. He needs to soften some of his authoritarian ideas…. however, the 30+ years of the Clinton/Bush/Banker Establishment destroyed this country and a few others, too.
Physics law applies: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Noah Webster (created the original Webster Dictionary) said it best:
If the citizens neglect their Duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made, not for the public good so much as for selfish or local purposes; corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the Laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizen will be violated or disregarded.
Our problem is the result of Noah’s warning.
Trump does have a moral compass. Republicans and Democrats don’t. Trump could soften a little… but, he’s not wrong.
Ah, that must be how he finds pussies to grab.
Unfortunately, his compass is either A) spinning around in circles like crazy the way his lies are or B) it’s pointing directly into Hell.
But, he does have a compass. ;)
>>> Trump does have a moral compass.
Ah, that must be how he finds pussies to grab.<<<
Bill Clinton sticks cigars in twats and then smokes them.
Trump doesn't.
Trump's wife would divorce him for that crime. Hillary aided and abetted.
This is an election between a psychopath (Clinton) and a non-psychopath (Trump).
What crime? Are you implying that Clinton’s consensual affair with Lewinsky was a crime? or that sticking cigars in orifices below the belt is a crime?
What I mean to say is…what the holy hell are you talking about?
>>> What crime? Are you implying that Clinton’s consensual affair with Lewinsky was a crime? or that sticking cigars in orifices below the belt is a crime?
What I mean to say is…what the holy hell are you talking about?<<<
It means that Clintons see people as objects to be exploited… like this: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/94/2e/ca/942ecad445b5f549d18b9e5c5b5af814.jpg
Bill on the left… Hillary on the right.
Enjoy your Fruit Loops.
so…when you said there was a crime in that instance, you were full of shit…gotcha. I’ll be on my way.
Bill Clinton sticks cigars in twats and then smokes them.
Trump doesn’t.
Well, as far as you know. I mean, are you a member of the clubs where he spends time in locker rooms? Have you spent time golfing with him, Bill, Rudy & Company? Absence of evidence is not the same as absence of action. I would contend that all of those men share a generalized contempt for women based on past performance.
This is an election between a psychopath (Clinton) and a non-psychopath (Trump).
True. I would label Trump a sociopath. The two share some common traits,
but Trump’s inability to keep his pique under control lends more toward sociopathy.
Neither one is someone I’d like to have in charge of the executive branch of government. :-s
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath
>>> but Trump’s inability to keep his pique under control lends more toward sociopathy.<<<
No. You are wrong. I've 'warred' with true-blue psychopaths before. They are VERY COOL UNDER PRESSURE (like Dick Cheney)…. and their #1 strategy is to attempt to make you lose your cool.
EXPERIENCE.
Right. You actually just restated what I just said. Psychopaths are under control (i.e. Clinton).
I called Trump a sociopath, not psychopath. I am not a mental health diagnostician but my understanding is that all of these categories are malleable. I was only pointing out that the psychopaths are not the only ones we should be concerned about. Sociopaths do damage as well.
>>> I was only pointing out that the psychopaths are not the only ones we should be concerned about. Sociopaths do damage as well. <<<
Sociopaths will always follow a 'stronger' psychopath.
Trump deals in real estate by trade. Not people. Psychopaths and sociopaths don't like to get their 'hands in the dirt'…
Trump is probably narcissistic. It's a tough business, too… so he's a "hard ass", too. But, not psychopathic or sociopathic. Sociopaths and psychopaths like to control other people… not dirt.
So, I think we are more on the same page than I origininally surmised.
We may need someone who is different but it’s not trump. Look to 2020 and support a viable candidate who is highly intelligent, has excellent critical thinking skills and has accrued wisdom and knowledge from studying history and econonics. Someone who has lived a life of service to others. Unless you believe in his movement (Make white America great again.) Because if you do then of course you will vote for him regardless of the mounting evidence that he lacks the skill set to make an effective commander in chief.
>>> We may need someone who is different but it’s not trump. <<<
We already know Hillary's track record. She's a psychopath. Her hubby sticks cigars in women genitalia and then smokes them. (THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE.)
Trump doesn't.
That's the choice.
I've been to Mena, Arkansas, too. Chelsea is not even from Bill's gene pool. She's from Webster Hubble's pool — siphoned by Hillary at a Toga & Mena Cocaine Party. SAD, BUT TRUE.
There is zero evidence in the public record — a more than 30-year record — that Trump has a moral compass.
>>> There is zero evidence in the public record — a more than 30-year record — that Trump has a moral compass. <<<
Has Trump ever been accused of sticking cigars in female genitalia?
No.
Bill has. Hillary watched. Hillary even sniffed the air in the Oval Office while Bill smoked the cigar laced with Monica-Lewinsky-Juice.
And they are still married? Two become one in marriage. One set of thoughts — from one mind. (Birds of a feather…)
TRUTH.
>>>Has Trump ever been accused of sticking cigars in female genitalia?
No.
Bill has. Hillary watched. Hillary even sniffed the air in the Oval Office while Bill smoked the cigar laced with Monica-Lewinsky-Juice.
And they are still married? Two become one in marriage. One set of thoughts — from one mind. (Birds of a feather…)
TRUTH.>>>
I’ve seen middle school children put forth more coherent and truthful arguments than that. You are the complete opposite of what your username claims. Your standard for morals is immoral and your grasp of logic and facts is weak to the point ridicule. But I shall refrain because I know you are incapable of learning.
>>> our standard for morals is immoral and your grasp of logic and facts is weak to the point ridicule. <<<
No. Wrong.
These sexual acts on display by the Clintons show their inner psyche on par with the likes of Ted Bundy, Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs eating brains), and Charles Manson (who wanted to start a race war — Helter Skelter.)
Trump is not perfect. But, he's not psycho.
Decrying the deaths of tens of thousands of people who never asked for war in Libya is a good start, The MIC and Hillary certainly lost theirs a long time ago, if they ever had a compass to begin with. I will be more than happy using Trump as a battering to break the status quo that keeps on returning us to the same vomit over and over.
I’ve been a registered democrat since I turned 18 and have voted for democrats about 98% of the time (and I ended up regretting most of those votes for republicans, although none made a difference), but I quit the party this year because of their disgusting behavior. I’d like to vote for Jill Stein since she aligns most closely with my political beliefs, but I’m leaning toward voting for Trump as a big F-U to the democratic party and Crooked Hillary.
Unfortunately, protest votes get you nowhere. That’s the rigged system. Psychopathic Republicans are going to try to sabotage Trump anyway.
So, you don’t have anything to worry about.
Psychopaths will still rule this society.
And so much more! It’s also thinking like Sam Harris New Atheists; Stalinist members of the Communist Party c. 1938; puritanical, anti-sex worker feminists — and Trumpers.
Uh, sure, the moral compass of a bullshit artist.
We have a real problem in this country. We’ve had true psychopaths in office since the 1960s.
We have a choice: Rule by psychopaths… or not.
It’s time to change that. Trump may or may not be a lot of things, but one thing is certain: He’s not a pscyhopath.
That’s step one: Put someone in the highest office in the world with someone who is not a psychopath.
Hillary ain’t it.
Wanna know what the mind of a psychopath looks like (this is real art from a society ruled by psychopaths): https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/94/2e/ca/942ecad445b5f549d18b9e5c5b5af814.jpg
That’s Bill and Hillary on the left and right of the image, respectively.
No. We haven’t. Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, Bush the Elder. Myriad faults and flaws with each, but the word “psychopath” is simply absurd as applied to them.
Hillary Clinton may well be a sociopath — many of the most successful businesspeople and politicians are. That includes Donald Trump.
But Trump is also afflicted with an unstable personality such that he truly does not know what truth is; it is literally what he says or believes from moment to moment. And often that “truth” is gross bigotry about Muslims, black people, hispanics and women.
He’s dangerous as fuck. Not for all the same reasons HRC is, but nevertheless, dangerous as all fuck.
>>> He’s dangerous as fuck. Not for all the same reasons HRC is, but nevertheless, dangerous as all fuck. <<<
Carter and Reagan were was probably the only non-psycho in all that time. But, the psychos used them… and in Reagan's case, put a bullet in him.
Johnson was a psycho, too. Why did they whack JFK??? It's easy to answer that one: The largest heist in the history of the world happened when they put a bullet in JFK.
What heist? The psychopaths replaced our entire monetary system. How? ALL COINAGE IN AMERICA was converted to copper+nickel instead of silver+gold coinage.
TRANSLATION: If you earned $500 per month in 1964, it was silver coin. In 1965, you made $500 cupronickel.
97% of the US economy was confiscated by bankers.
The average American had purchasing power of $15 per month. The result: Hyperinflation. Gerald Ford was unelected. So was his VP — Nelson Rockefeller.
Nelson and David put Carter on the front stage.
One could argue that psychopaths in office is the norm and any non-psychopaths (if there are any) have simply been rare aberrations.
Nagasaki/Hiroshima
Genocide of native NAmerican populations
Child labor
Slavery
Remember, the problem with “don’t judge history by current standards/morals” is that it does a disservice to those during the time that knew the acts were wrong but had no power to stop them.
>>> One could argue that psychopaths in office is the norm and any non-psychopaths (if there are any) have simply been rare aberrations. <<<
You are correct. Psychopaths seek high office as a profession in order to achieve their diabolical ends.
We used to have something in this country called "statesmen"… who were motivated by noble societal need instead of power in the form of sovereign immunity.
The king can do no wrong…. How about this king??? https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/94/2e/ca/942ecad445b5f549d18b9e5c5b5af814.jpg
Most people are not like that. However, psychos are ruthless and do not know the meaning of restraint.
Clintons fill that bill. And, their minions.
Trump said, "Enough is enough"…. to repeat the words of Obama. Obama is one of Clinton's trained monkeys.
Obama is one of Clinton’s trained monkeys.
Setting aside the racist overtones of referring to Obama as a monkey, I would ask what part of Clinton’s trained anything was in action during the 2008 primary?
It’s just not rational to assume Obama is Clinton’s tool when he ran against and defeated her in an election she – and her multitude – thought was going to be her coronation.
>>> Setting aside the racist overtones of referring to Obama as a monkey, I would ask what part of Clinton’s trained anything was in action during the 2008 primary?<<<
OH…. GOD…. Watch the Planet of the Apes. It has nothing to do with color.
Clinton wanted control of the State Department — the vehicle for millions in payoffs from international sources with cover of sovereign immunity.
Hillary Conceded … and … quid pro quo… got what they wanted. Clintons had nothing but disdain for Obama until they came to "the deal." Clintons said that Obama was unfit for the office until Obama agreed to give the Clintons (both of them) the State Department (like Kissinger on Steroids)
Agreed, and it seemed to be a worldwide phenomenon. Slavery and extreme violence is still happening in certain parts in the world. We are still in the barbaric period, the future will look back to this time with disgust.
>>> lavery and extreme violence is still happening in certain parts in the world. <<<
Do you know what a Quaker Trust is? Look in this country. It's not run by Quakers, anymore. See if you can figure it out.
Figuring things out for yourself is the only freedom anyone really has. Use that freedom. Make up your own mind.
That last bit is a quote from Michael Ironside’s character in Starship Troopers.
Attribution is necessary when seeking truth.
Yup… one of the best political satire flics of the century.
Here’s another for you: “Rico! What’s the moral difference, if any, between a civilian and a citizen? Answer: A citizen accepts personal responsibility for the safety of the body politic… defending it with his life. A civilian does not.”
The only good bug is a dead bug! :)
As someone who evaluated mental disorders for 27 years for Social Security Disability, I can assure you that Trump may not be psychotic, but at the very least has a significant personality disorder. FYI “psychopath” is not a working diagnosis, but rather a catch-all term loved by Hollywood and writers of fiction. I never once saw the term used as a diagnosis in any of the thousands of hospital discharge summaries and Mental Status Exam reports that I reviewed.
>>> FYI “psychopath” is not a working diagnosis, but rather a catch-all term loved by Hollywood and writers of fiction. <<<
Psychopath is the "old" term. Now, it's "antisocial."
How do you confuse people? Give an old concept a new name. Like "Waterboarding" or "Chinese Water Torture." One is torture… the other is not.
Psychos play word games and stick cigars in women. Clinton. A textbook characteristic Antisocial includes extreme sexual deviancy and promiscuity. Just like Ted Bundy.
Bill Clinton…. and his aider and abetter … Hillary. I wonder how many cigars she swallowed?
So… some writer for Newsweek and some talking head who once worked in intelligence are talking shite. If they were Republicans you’d never even notice – they’d blend in because inventing your own facts is one of the basic job requirements.
If there’s a moral here, that would be why read Twitter when you can read The Atlantic? Or even The Intercept, for goodness sakes. I mean, Twitter is a broken wasteland of people talking in smallest prosecutable units at each other, almost all of them with no hope of ever being read, and a few somehow having bazillions of ‘followers’ via some method that likely involves paid marketeers. From the beginning I saw it as nothing but a proprietary version of IRC, with pretensions. I’d say its stock can’t go down fast enough.
Frankly, the way you began this article……by stating that the corrupt bitch should win the Oval Office makes me think I need to rethink voting 3rd party and just vote Trump.
direct quotations or it didn’t happen LOL
“DONALD TRUMP……almost certain humiliating defeat….”
Is there a “should” in that malformed ellipsis? Show us.
Go read the goddamn beginning of this article yourswlf, then. I don’t like how Greenwald began this article and I don’t like people who try to write erudite responses, who only come off as an ass.
Does that mean you couldn’t find the “should?”
“I don’t like how Greenwald began this article and I don’t like people who try to write erudite responses, who only come off as an ass.”
Why the self-loathing?
Not sure what triggers you here. He didn’t say he wishes for Clinton to win or that she is objectively the one for whom people should chose to vote, he said that she will most likely win. That is really just a fact to be stated looking at the current polls. What do you not like about that. It may be a fact that displeases you but that’s nonetheless just a fact.
I was hoping someone would say this about the introduction. Thank you.
You were hoping someone would state an easily disprovable lie about the beginning of the article?
Well, you got your wish. Go down in flames with your hero.
Clinton is arguably more dangerous and extreme and Drumpf, so either of those two overgrown children wielding absolute power is a nightmare the likes of which we have not seen since the 1930s. I wish The Intercept would join organizations such as The Real News Network in reporting on the candidacies of third party candidates like Jill Stein, because then voters would be better informed about what their options are and make informed decisions at the polls. That’s what responsible journalists are supposed to do.
Thanks once again, Glenn. Someone – I think it was Thom Hartmann – said that today’s democrats are essentially Eisenhower republicans. With one qualification, I think that is true; the qualification being: as epitomized by Senator Joseph McCarthy. Perhaps my recollection is faulty, but it is that Eisenhower himself was a pretty decent man, and the republican party of his day encompassed a relatively wide range of political sentiment.
Although neither the media nor the vast majority of the electorate recognize it, the terms “liberal” and “conservative” no longer describe either faction of the Party, for both adhere to corporatist, totalitarian principles. They do an excellent job to stirring up emotions, on one hand calling abortion murder even while they sanction and even cheer the murder of untold thousands of people who do not adhere to their particular ‘faith’, or calling for gun control while eagerly selling weapons of mass destruction to despots and theocrats. Moreover, people actually believe that electing W, X, Y or Z as president would in itself be sufficient to change the course of the nation, ignoring the vast fascist life support system that is our Congress. They see government as the problem, and to some extent it is, but not because it exists, but rather because it has become disfunctional. And that is not thanks to any particular president, but rather mostly to the actions of Congress. Does anyone hear calls to throw those bums our?
I have been voting out the incumbent for many many elections now. Why complain about the state of our government, yet vote the same idiots to power? I encourage everyone to follow my lead.
Two points:
Ike DID open an investigation into his predecessor, namely on the alleged “secret treaties” between FDR, Truman and the Soviets. Guess what they found? If you guessed “nothing”, you guessed right! (If only Ike had looked into Pendergast and Hannegan…) Sadly, Ike is an exception, as most Presidents have not looked into crimes of their predecessors since the days of Jefferson.
As for Congress, it appears that only Republicans (aided by their religious right and corporatist allies) view control of Congress and state legislatures as important. (Some Democrats view them as important, but the corporatist DNC establishment doesn’t think so, despite the success of the last guy who tried it, Howard Dean.)
Pendergast Crime Network got FDR AND TRUMAN elected.
Kansas City History.
Bad Scene.
Actually, when they were cracking down on Pendergast, Hannegan got Truman into office over Stark and Milligan, both of whom went after Pendergast. Truman got Hannegan named to head the IRS, which led FDR to name him head of the DNC. In 1944, Hannegan returned the favor, getting Truman named VP over Henry A. Wallace, despite many delegates backing Wallace. The rest is history.
>>> Actually, when they were cracking down on Pendergast, Hannegan got Truman into office over Stark and Milligan, both of whom went after Pendergast. <<<
Doesn't change the fact that Pendergast network got FDR and Truman elected.
Both FDR and Truman knew that Pendergast would become a liability in time.
The rest is history.
How well do you know KC??? Believe me…. I know KC.
I don’t. I just remember some things hagiographers don’t know about Truman. (One reason I compare DWS to Robert Hannegan.)
>>> I don’t. I just remember some things hagiographers don’t know about Truman. (One reason I compare DWS to Robert Hannegan.)
<<<
Truman from Independence, MO.
Pendergast Central.
Thanks for your research–people certainly shouldn’t be sharing a false version of events in this case. On the subject of “Putin Plots,” though, there is certainly strong evidence, a) that Russia has a preferred candidate in this election (Trump); b) that Russia is interfering in the US election with state-sponsored hacking, email dumps, paid internet trolls and propagandistic media; c) that former Trump advisors (Manafort, Page) who influenced his Russia policy have strong ties to Putin’s inner circle; and d) that Trump is an outlier in American politics in his deference to and admiration of Putin and the Russian viewpoint, at the expense of NATO/Western interests
“they’re so convinced of the righteousness of their cause”
Clearly, the very definition of “Fanaticism”.
1. Thank you very much for clarifying the whole matter completely.
2. Donald Trump is not going to pass laws or enact policies against laws contrary to the overwhelming majority of public interest so as to tip the boat so much as to take on water and sink. Wouldn’t/won’t happen in my opinion.
3. Dangerous? Human beings do things that other people object to but actions speak louder than words and there is no accounting for taste. But there is an accounting for actions which actions have consequences with 2 meanings – one for the public, one for the private elite which duplicitous anti-democratic principles exist in any and every apartheid country.
4. It has been said here in a recent *TI* post (looked, cannot find it) that Donald’s lies are more about style whereas Hillary’s lies are more about substance. What Hillary clinton is offering to America is candy coated poison. Hillary’s 2-faced tactic, one public one private, is an APARTHEID GAMBIT which disrepects humanity and democracy as if to murder it. Hillary’s apartheid gambit is a nuclear weapon against the truth and facts that human life depends on and, and it asks of people to lie to themselves and believe a fantasy as bait for targets to swallow in the VERY SAME FASHION & SUBSTANCE of WMD which got America into this forever war, murdered by thousands, ruined economy, attrocities that pop up like weeds, WHICH HILLARY CLINTON IS WILLING TO REPEAT!
Now you tell me which is more dangerous.
Are the emails genuine? Probably. Are the Russians interfering in our electoral process? Probably. What I don’t understand is why everyone — including Greenwald, apparently — sees those things as mutually exclusive. Given the United States’ own history of electoral meddling (and worse) in other countries, all this pearl-clutching over the suggestion that another country would do the same to us seems a little out of place. Questioning the source, and the source’s motives — especially when the source is one whose motives are questionable at best — is a rational step to take and not simply the mark of a Clinton shill.
tl;dr version: Yes, Clinton needs to address the substance of the emails; that does not, however, preclude also questioning how and why our electoral process is being tampered with from the outside as surely as voter suppression is tampering with it from within.
right! Imagine that. Perhaps Russia embraces the US Constitutional prescriptions for truth and freedom of the press. Contrast that with the predatory evil practices of the US wallstreet elites – bribery invasion and assassination. Now the wallstreet elites are all insulted and embarrassed for being exposed as the “russia does it” types types they really are.
” But come January, Democrats will continue to be the dominant political faction in the U.S….”
WTF does this even mean? You think Congress and the SCOTUS have no power? Both of which have been dominated by the corporate right wing since W for the most part.
“Dominant” does not mean what you think it does.
“dominated by the corporate right wing since W for the most part”
Doesn’t understand history too.
The “Democrats”, especially Hillary, are the corporate right wing.
How you sift through and elucidate things is amazing! Thank You! <3
and? sorry glenn but you’re such a good writer i can’t get past one or two paragraphs of your self-righteous intensity. i don’t get it. what’s the point? you and julian seem to be on personal vendettas for their own sake. as homer says, BORing.
i refuse to get caught up in your web of intrigue and malevolent conspiracies.
How amusing. The only one’s peddling conspiracies are Eichenwald et al.
“They’re all fake, fake I tell you! Faked by Russia! Putin is BFF with Assange and Greenwald — they write whatever he tells them, even fake emails. All to, you know, control the U.S. election!!11!1! The Russians are coming!11!!1″
Really! Could hardly agree more. What is the point of all this bloviation? Especially when it comes from an establishmwent, corporate news outlet owned by an oligarch just as the NYT and WaPo are.
Just take the logic of the first paragraph and apply it to the Intercept and its (all white and very elite) senior editors. What’s good for the goose…
“i refuse to get caught up in your web of intrigue and malevolent conspiracies.”
Really, my brain nearly collapsed under the sheer irony of this comment. Either the best troll, or accidentally, you’ve so aptly described the net result not getting ‘past one or two paragraphs’.
To help you, this isn’t personal vendetta, its addressing enormous misinformation, something I’m glad someone with a meaningful platform is at least trying to do.
Anything on Wikileaks yet about Trump and Bubba sharing a three way on the Lolita Express?
The Secret Team has allowed the USA voter the choice between two candidates, both of whom, they are confident, will be completely under their control.
Gee, when will Wikileaks release The Secret Team memos? Stop holding back guys…. I know you have pictures of them in their superhero outfits and architecture plans for their Secret Team Island in the Pacific.
Tell you what Scaleman, make ’em up yourself. You plainly don’t need to be tethered to any kind of boring reality.
Real question is why you bother reading this rather reality-bound web publication.
Do you really believe in an election process that ends up with Trump versus Bubba’s wife as the best of the best out of 350 million to hold the highest office of the world’s only super power?
Do you think maybe the CIA has a few things on these two that they can use to manipulate them into acting as they desire?
The Secret Team is just a nick name for the deep state that has ruled our country since Truman dropped the big ones.
Hearings of the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations
June 14th 2017
DWS: Exhibit 13867 is a copy of an application form by which you signify a desire to teach in an elementary school. You understand of course that we have to be very careful when it comes to people who may influence future voters. Are you now or have you ever been a critic of President Hillary?
Glenn, I trust Intercept, so give me your educated opinion on this, please. Why is Wikileaks publishing these emails that hurt Clinton now instead of before the Democratic nomination was settled? They could have hurt her in the primary enough to allow Bernie to win the nomination. Since these leaks have been signaled for months now, Assange seems to have had them for a long time and deliberately waited until she and Trump had the nominations so that now they hurt her to give Trump a boost, possibly into the WH. Is Assange trying to get Trump elected, as is Russia? thanks
The funny thing is the Blumenthal mail which Sputnik referred to was posted on WikiLeaks the week prior. Twitter was abuzz about it then.
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/2038
Sputnik posted about it several days later, and since liberals don’t care to research and believe Trump only reads Sputnik, it can only mean a Trump-Putin connection! What a hilarious year.
I get your point however, to take the opposite stand; you are willing to accept at face value they are true and accurate unless proven otherwise. Why is that journalist integrity? We don’t know how they were obtained, unlike Snowden’s material, but it should just be accepted and reported on anyway. That does not appear unbiased.
Glenn, as a lawyer and a journalist, would you advocate for some tye of official canon of ethics and form of authority for licensing and policing journalists such as we have with the bar’s oversight of attorneys? I have an inherent skepticism for creating new forms of authority but damn, the exercise of journalism and the public’s interest in media integrity are too important to ignore.
See US Constitution, 1st Amendment.
I think he’s real objection and point is that journalists and organization calling themselves “News Agencies” and aren’t really providing news. ie….have rules around what is considered News from Gossip.
Or having some prescribed rules around publication of stories….ie, some due diligence is required in a News Agency before providing or presenting to the public as ‘fact’.
And policing in form of fines, or audits, etc…to measure whether they are conforming with providing truthful stories.
At least, this is how I see this poster’s concerns. Not to ‘shut them up’ as you have indicated.
You should stick with that inherent skepticism.
I think I understand your concerns and, indeed, share them but what you are advocating is submission of the so-called Fourth Estate to the powers that are already trying their mightiest to subdue and/or exercise total control over it.
They called it Pravda is the Soviet Union. I would be careful of advocating for Soviet style governmental controls in this climate. Rumor has it that can get you into trouble….or get you branded a liar. Benito Mussolini should be along promptly to confirm. ;-}
Like most every other power given to the Powers That Be it would unquestionably be abused. It would be used somewhat how some governors and their agents, and also some universities, are attempting to outlaw, and sometimes succeeding in outlawing, anything having to do with BDS.
“unquestionably be abused”
Can you give an example of how the FASB (Financial Accounting Standards Board) has abused their power? They are the governing board for accounting rules in the US and are comprised as I’ve shown in post to Pedinska.
Just because power exists, it isn’t inherent to abuse. That’s the reason we have checks and balances (ie..internal controls). So, abuse is minimized or non-existent.
“Can you give an example of how the FASB (Financial Accounting Standards Board) has abused their power? ”
Yes. Back during the 2008 financial crisis the FASB very quickly changed the accounting rules so that banks no longer had to use “mark to market” accounting( i.e. pricing the assets on their books at the present market value). The financial firms were suddenly allowed to use “mark to model” accounting which allowed them to mask their insolvency by vastly overstating the value of their assets.
This was done with much government coercion, but it happened.
Actually, they have always been required to use Mark-To-Market rules. I think the changes are disclosure changes you are referring to.
The issue with mark-to-market is that the markets were frozen…ie…the accounting would have allowed them to keep the asset at last quoted price. And that’s a problem. The price was old and market Not Active.
Companies are always allowed to make estimates. However, if they make estimates on financial products where there are no active markets, they need to disclose the inputs to their calculations.
They changes rules after to allow for greater disclosure and to be able to make an estimate that was better than No Estimate at all.
Not sure if this situation qualifies. The overstatement of assets occurred with they didn’t write down the assets, not that they wrote them up for nefarious reasons.
There’s precedent and it need not be totally controlled by Government.
The FASB is a governing board for accounting rules.
True, there is a government seat on the board. But the board itself is comprised of 7 members, 2 from public accounting firms and 3 from private industry and 1 from Academia and 1 from the SEC.
No.
If anything, I’d abolish the gate-keeper bar.
And radically revise the arcane rules of procedure that (are designed to) prevent effective pro se representation.
Procedural rules are ok, but competent non-lawyers can help others thru simple divorces, drafting wills, and a number of other matters. The bar’s gatekeeping to stop this shouldn’t be.
Procedural rules are necessary. But they can be drafted so as to be accessible to a much broader segment of the population, and they should be, IMHO.
As for the latter, I’ve been doing it for a long time. They haven’t caught me yet (of course, I don’t collect fees) and I’m too old to be scared of them now. ;^)
Do you even realize how utterly politicized the ABA is? This organization does not “police its own.” Rather, it has been infiltrated by the very entities it should be policing: the lawyers (scum) who are defending the bankers and dumping a plethora of fraudulent documents into courts across this country.
Yes, any form of procedural control will have a cost. In biology, it’s the mutants that arise out of diversity that make evolution possible. I get it.
But it’s shared expectations for behavior that allow us to form a society and cooperate. It’s the rules of standardization that provide the benefit of interoperability that fuels a competition. It’s regulations, quality control, and inspections that give us the confidence to take a flu shot in the arm.
As Glenn has been trumpeting for a long time now, the media is pretty well bankrupt of any expectation of truth and integrity in reporting. If the 4th Estate is to have any value at all, isn’t some form of integrity a prerequisite? And if they lack that basic level of integrity then isn’t that even worse than silencing them?
Just look at what happened in Brazil. Didn’t the media pave the way for sanctioned coup? The media’s pile of failures has grown pretty high so I don’t think an examination of how to restore it’s integrity is a foolish question.
As Glenn has been trumpeting for a long time now, the media is pretty well bankrupt of any expectation of truth and integrity in reporting.
Actually, what Glenn does so well is point out the instances where media engages in lies and hypocrisy. It’s a specialty of sorts and, maybe, the fact that he doesn’t always balance this out with stories about good reporting tends to make people think that he considers the media totally bankrupt. I would disagree with that statement and I think he would too.
I tend to evaluate media now based on individual reporters and the pieces they write. We’ve all seen examples of media controlled from the top down – e.g. Adelson’s purge of the Las Vegas Review-Journal – but there are still examples of good reporting even at the large organizations that are reputedly under governmental and/or corporate sway.
For instance Glenn was at the Guardian and Gellman was at WaPoo when they broke the Snowden stories. Both are reporters with whom I’ve had differences of opinion, but they are also people whom I respect for their integrity. There are lots of others in that group as well.
The media is like any other group out there. It’s members include honest brokers as well as shitheels selling snake oil. Slapping rules and regulations on the ABA hasn’t stopped rampant prosecutorial abuse. Rules and regulations on the AMA hasn’t meant that they police themselves to get rid of the 1% of physicians responsible for the vast majority of malpractice. And, while I believe wholeheartedly in the value of vaccines in the prevention and eradication of infectious diseases (my own career path) I’ll be the first to assert that the egregious behavior of the pharma corporations has been criminal in the extreme in terms of their misuse of the patent and legal protections gifted them by our governmental rulemakers in pursuit of excessive progit-mongering. Etc, ad nauseam.
What we actually need more of is critical thinking and transparency.
>>> What we actually need more of is critical thinking and transparency.<<<
Correct. And, it's also the problem. Why?
Henry Ford said, "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable reason so few people engage in it."
George Carlin said, "They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They are not interested in that. That doesn't help them."
That's why leaked Hillary/DNC emails said they want an "unaware and compliant citizenry."
For a truth seeker you certainly pass along a lot of lies.
The email in question bemoaned the fact that the political process tended “to demean government, drop civics and in general conspire to produce an unaware and compliant citizenry.”
The “we” at the beginning of the original referred to politics as a whole, and not remotely to a goal of the Clinton candidacy.
That’s the danger of making public private emails. Emails speak with the language of familiarity between correspondents and can easily be misinterpreted out of context by outsiders.
You’re a willing dupe of Rightwing rubbish.
>>> That’s the danger of making public private emails. Emails speak with the language of familiarity between correspondents and can easily be misinterpreted out of context by outsiders.
You’re a willing dupe of Rightwing rubbish.<<<
Actually, you are naive. I am enlightened.
FYI, you "publish" your email every time you use someone else's disk drive.
Been in the Biz (software developer) for 30+ years. Don't try to argue with me. Crypto is one of my many specialties.
>>> That’s why leaked Hillary/DNC emails said they want an “unaware and compliant citizenry.” <<<
PS… that means they want good slaves. And the cops and national guard are there to make sure they can "suppress" a slave insurrection or rebellion.
(That's why Winthrop Rockefeller became governor of Arkansas. So he could call forth the Militia against slave miners in zinc, coal, and aluminum mining operations in NW Arkansas. JD Rockfeller learned his political lesson when he hired machine-gunners to suppress a miner-rebellion called the Ludlow Rebellion and machinegunned miners who wouldn't work.)
I know that America will never haver such intelligent president like Vladimir Putin,but why he is mentioned every day.Leave him alone.
Rep. Xavier Becerra D-CA was interviewed by Trevor Noah on the Daily Show last night (I watch Daily a lot less since Comedy Central canceled Wilmore’s Nightly Show), and I believe very little remains of Jon Stewart’s spirit there. Here was this U.S. Congressman from California also claiming the Guccifer 2.0 emails were Russian frauds and shouldn’t be trusted, and Trevor let him.
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/6elamy/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-xavier-becerra—what-a-hillary-clinton-presidency-could-look-like
Because anyone criticizing Hillary at this point has to be a pussy-grabbing, Putin-loving Russian propaganda agent – just messing with American democracy. Right?
Many, many thanks Mr. Glenn.
As far as the current election is concerned, both Wikileaks AND Greenwald are compromised. They both published only material and criticism against Clinton or the democratic party (the article Greenwald quotes in the beginning of the article is not about Trump but about the media complicity in Trump’s rise and a criticism of the call for journalists’ neutrality; even if we do count it, it is not “repeated”, and certainly nothing when compared to the dozens of articles (27 since September 2015) criticizing Clinton and the democrats). As to Wikileaks, the fact that two of their last releases are about Clinton, combined with zero revelation about Trump, or corruption in Russia, is bizarre, and given Assange’s odd inability to differentiate between two candidates who are more different than any in recent presidential elections in the US, Wikileaks seem more political than journalistic.
I think Glenn Greenwald is one of the most important journalists today, and it is disappointing to see him fail to apply the same passion for journalistic truth to the Clinton-Trump race.
Trying to claim that The Intercept has only criticized Clinton?
Save this for your more gullible Facebook friends you twit.
Nir is a moron. He demonstrated that when commenting on Glenn’s column about the $38 billion aid package to Israel as it builds yet more settlements. According to genius Nir, the column was deeply flawed because it lacked a “numerical support as to the connection between US money and settlements.”
His notion of what constitutes “compromised” where WL or Glenn are concerned is as inane as his notion of what’s necessary in a story highlighting the outrages aid package to Israel in light of continued settlements. He’s either a troll or extremely stupid.
Moron with a mission.
As to the article you refer to, Greenwald falsify the bit about free healthcare, and misunderstands (or mis-explaine) better life expectancy and lesser child mortality.
My post refers to Greenwald, not to the intercept.
“As far as the current election is concerned, both Wikileaks AND Greenwald are compromised”
Learn to read!!!
leaks don’t have to be fair to both opponents….that’s not how they work….
nonsense.
Everyone has a disposition and favoritism can shine thru. But TI is not any sort of political camp. TI and GG follow the strict responsibility of press which is to acknowledge the facts even if it hurts.
Maybe your ability to walk on water – rather than having your feet in the dirt and mud – is better for your image. Be mindful that when it rains, images melt away.
GG has written 27 articles criticizing Clinton, and 3 or 4 where Trump is mentioned. Not a single article where Trump is the subject of inquiry into the fact of Trump’s depravity and political extremities.
As a journalist you can write on whatever you want. But his writing, as pointed as it is, is not about the elections at all, but about a dangerous trend, and would have more merit had he bothered to employ similar zeal with respect to Trump.
Maybe because everyone else in the liberal media is criticizing Trump already and giving Clinton a free pass on criticism? That’s what good journalists do, they try to shine light on things nobody else is seeing.
By the way, criticizing Clinton is “a dangerous trend”. Really? Criticizing a presidential candidate is dangerous now? Isn’t that the number one duty a journalist has?
The “dangerous trend” is the tendency of journalists to invent news, what he writes about, not his criticism of Clinton. Thank you for alerting me to the ambiguity in my comment.
Critical thinking and writing, and especially journalism, has a clear ulterior motive: to generate change through exposure of truths, and fallacies.
I seriously doubt a journalist of Greenwald calibre, and sophistication, is unaware of that. His stance, in other words, as primarily interested in exposing the truth is dubious, in the least.
When writing critically in election time, about a major candidate, the ulterior motive mentioned above is to influence the outcome of the election, and when you write, like he does (or publish condemning information as Assange does), only about one candidate’s corruption and depravity, you clearly hope to undermine their campaign. In other words, when both Assange and Greenwald criticize Clinton exclusively, they inevitably pitch for other candidates, and since Trump is most likely to become president if Clinton’s campaign fails, they inevitably advocate for him. Again, to claim Greenwald is unaware of that aspect of his writing is naive, in the least.
I have just encountered an interesting statement concerning both Assange’s publications and Greenwald’s article above:
“… reporters don’t FOIA the government for a stack of documents and then, upon receiving them, blindly publish the stack or their gleanings call it a work of journalism. No document obtained via the FOIA process is automatically a reliable source upon which a sound story can be built. Its contents must be tested, verified, cross-examined and blended with other information before it has any business being placed in a news story. …”
I do not agree with everything the article states, but just as Greenwald rightly criticize the outright rejection of the emails as fake, questioning the source of electronic media might be prudent.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/10/wikileaks-emails-hack-clinton-2016-podesta-214348
They claim Trumps political extremity isn’t that large,but no woman’s complained publicly yet.
Without generalizing the readership of the intercept too much, I think it would be entirely a waste of time to write articles criticizing Donald Trump. It could not be more blatant to anyone with a brain that the guy is complete scum, has no idea how to run a campaign let alone a country and has almost no chance of winning. What is much more important, in my opinion and I am assuming GG’s based on the articles he writes, is to ensure that scrutiny is placed on the practices that are being used and the effects that they can have. It is extremely dangerous to allow “journalists” to influence public discussion based on misinformation, and as a responsible journalist, Mr Greenwald is bringing this to attention. The public should be extremely skeptical of any information presented by journalists, and articles like this are only going to help that cause.
Good point, David. Thanks.
Here is something I’ve written in response to another comment here. I’d appreciate your take on it.
“Critical thinking and writing, and especially journalism, has a clear ulterior motive: to generate change through exposure of truths, and fallacies.
I seriously doubt a journalist of Greenwald calibre, and sophistication, is unaware of that. His stance, in other words, as primarily interested in exposing the truth is dubious, in the least.
When writing critically in election time, about a major candidate, the ulterior motive mentioned above is to influence the outcome of the election, and when you write, like he does (or publish condemning information as Assange does), only about one candidate’s corruption and depravity, you clearly hope to undermine their campaign. In other words, when both Assange and Greenwald criticize Clinton exclusively, they inevitably pitch for other candidates, and since Trump is most likely to become president if Clinton’s campaign fails, they inevitably advocate for him. Again, to claim Greenwald is unaware of that aspect of his writing is naive, in the least.”
I understand your point, however, I slightly disagree with your conclusion that only writing about one candidate is aimed at undermining their campaign. First of all I draw a massive distinction between the work of GG and JA, as they clearly have very different personal situations at the moment. For someone like Assange, who is living without freedom at the moment, I feel he is fighting a personal battle, one which I couldn’t possibly imagine and therefore feel like I offer no insight into the motives for his work, and hence have no objection to your opinion that he is trying to undermine Hilary’s campaign, that seems probable. With Glen Greenwald however, I don’t think he is attempting to undermine Hilary’s campaign, I think he knows that she will win comfortably and is attempting to fight her from the very start. As I said in my previous comment, it seems absolutely absurd that Donald Trump be President, wasting time writing articles about things he says or does is redundant, particularly on The Intercept. Criticizing and scrutinizing the Democrats, however, is particularly important at this time as people need to be aware of exactly what it is they represent, and what lengths they are prepared to go to win. It is one thing being the better candidate, but it is entirely different being a good candidate. I am just a foreigner (Scottish) observing from afar with keen interest, so I don’t have a firm grasp of the American people so take my opinions with a pinch of salt, but it seems to me like the Democrats are trying every trick in the book to con the public, when there is absolutely no need to. A wet paper bag would win this election against Trump, so why do the democrats continue to use such dirty tactics to manipulate public opinion? Just because you want a candidate to lose, does not mean you will allow the other candidate to behave in ways that you consider to be morally reprehensible. I could be wrong, perhaps I am seeing it from my own perspective rather than that of GG but I am always of the opinion that you criticse the faults in your own party if you ever want them to improve.
Cheers
If you think it’s odd or strange that Greenwald and Assange would go after the establishment candidate more than the one hated by establishment, then you understand little to nothing about their politics.
I would expect Greenwald to expose Trump in more details than single sentence statements. I would expect Assange to be able to differentiate between two candidates so different as Clinton and Trump. If they ignore him because he is “hated by establishment”, than they are even less deserved of the high regard with which I hold them both. I understand where they come from, and agree with most of their views, but disagree with their choices with respect to the upcoming US elections.
If you think it’s odd or strange that Greenwald and Assange would go after the establishment candidate more than the one hated by establishment, then you understand little to nothing about their politics.
Um, I don’t think you understand as much as you think you do. Greenwald is on the record that BOTH candidates are, um, lacking in presidential stature.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3PUwSqnU8A&feature=youtu.be
Gosh, you’re right. Maybe Glenn could have opened this article with something like, “Donald Trump, for reasons I’ve repeatedly pointed out, is an extremist, despicable, and dangerous candidate, and his almost-certain humiliating defeat is less than a month away.”
Not Necessary (and he actually does something similar here)). What I’d like to see is them treating Trump as they treat Clinton.
I think what’s striking about the Sputnik quoting incident is just how many intelligent people are going for it. Krugman has won some of the highest prizes you can get in the world in Economics and he’s going for this (albeit his tweet was slightly more carefully phrased than those others). And there are other bloggers with strong academic backgrounds biting on it too.
Krugman is a mainstream “moderate” apologist for the establishment.
His work in economics is solidly grounded in its “classical” forms and that brand of economics is a form of mental illness, in that it rests on denial of the laws of physics and the existence of fantasy entities such as “markets” and “externalities” and “rational operators.”
“His work in economics is solidly grounded in its “classical” forms and that brand of economics is a form of mental illness, in that it rests on denial of the laws of physics and the existence of fantasy entities such as “markets” and “externalities” and “rational operators.”
Well said. One of the best single-sentence explanations of voodoo-economics I’ve seen.
Speak to the invisible hand.
Wait – Krugman is an apologist for voodoo-economics? I’m confused. Most of what I read from PK is about discrediting malformed ideas such as health care as an “open market” and that government spending lacking any stimulus on economic growth. What am I missing?
I consider all economic theories to be “voodoo-economics,” in that they’re based more on ideology – what one feels is happening or should happen – than they are on verifiable and repeatable criteria that remain the same for everyone who observes it.
Krugman (and most economists) suffer the same issues as the trickle-down, supply-side economic model does: mainly the desire to support capitalism as the de facto exemplar with which the production, consumption, and transfer of wealth should be modeled upon, when it’s capitalism itself that’s been found repeatedly failing in providing a stable method of doing so.
The social sciences involved in studying economics are getting better, but unless we pay attention to the repeated failures and shortcomings of the current model used to structure our economies (and, importantly change things when we don’t get results that are in the best interests of most of us), we’ll simply be pounding the square peg of ideology into the round hole of reality.
I’ll edit out that last creepy-bit when The Intercept improves their commenting section.
“His work in economics is solidly grounded in its “classical” form”
You do know Keynesian economics – the school to which Krugman belongs – was a rejection of classical theory?
Oh dear. Back to barking at the Press again, Glenn. There was a show in England called “Drop the Dead Donkey”, the superb title of which led to many pages in the press claiming it was some industry insider term. Turns out it wasn’t, it was just made up by the show’s writers, but it resonated and has stuck in my mind forever more.
I like to think its meaning is something similar to flogging a dead horse: dropping a news story when it is no longer “news”. See that word, it contains the idea of “new”, something that we didn’t know already, something breaking.
The Dead Donkeys that should be dropped here are that The Democrats are somehow nicer and so it is more surprising when they act like shits and that the Press are complicit and active agents of our political elites. The Democrats have the KKK as part of their history and the Press have been writing slander for profit for years.
You continue to make bold claims that you are unashamedly opinionated and happy to show bias, but I am way past that now.
This is not sharp insight or clever opinion, it is OLD NEWS. We are in a very dangerous situation now where our governments, law makers, militaries, media and bankers are happily committing all sorts of crime with impunity as they grab as much cash and resources as they can and build formidable barricades for their defence.
And these are not “These are smart, rational people falling for a scam”, they are willingly complicit supporters. Half the people who comment on this website are supporters. The world is not made up of nice people who need to be educated and enlightened by a free and conscientious press: it is made up of a myriad of differing peoples some of whom enjoy being shits.
If you read a little bit about the history of Germany you will see that it is a new nation. Even what is identifiably “German” is rather new: before it was Saxons and Franks with a whole bunch of Slavic peoples on its eastern borders. Their first full democratic elections led to the rapid rise of the Nazis, not to some nice People-Powered Care-and-Share-in. This is in part because a lot of people are Nazi-sympathising arseholes (amply demonstrated by the current 25%+ support for the National Front in France), but also because any popular movements towards Care-and-Share-ins are actively and quickly crushed but all those at the top squabbling for the right to Abuse Power. And the Nazis lacked many of the sophisticated tools and techniques available to today’s would-be Abusers of Power. Lying about Putin is just one of a million crimes; he is an easy target, if he was American you’d love him like a god.
You are an intelligent man that has done the right thing, but you have retired to this Ivory Tower of “conscientious journalism”. It is a waste of time.
Come down – you’ve already come out! – Sun Tzu says wars are never won by hiding in castles. And there is definitely a war on and there are definitely casualties of all manners, creeds, colours and capabilities.
As soon as Clinton’s victory is confirmed the corpses will start to rot. Her people are ready to pounce. It’s going to be ugly.
People need better coping skills. My own coping skills basically involve 4 oz. of tequila, 4 oz. of triple sec, two limes and two packages of sweet n low (the pink stuff). Shake vigorously and pour over ice.
Glasses should have their rims limed and salted. Turn them upside down and place and place them on a tray in the freezer for “emergency situations.” Also, calming music may help.
The morning after.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KClpLzFftU
What we are seeing is an Orwellian manifestation of Inverted Totalitarianism come to life and spread through our wonderful social media, started by the Red Queen but promoted by most all of the centers of power in our society. This is a soft coup because it isn’t just aimed at Trump but at killing any resistance to the new aggressive reality that is aimed first at Syria/Russia but will be Clintonism’s game plan and legacy. This is too widespread and persistent to be anything but a coup and once the Red Queen is installed into power it will be impossible to reverse what will then be a proven effective tool of control.
Trump may represent many things that frighten people such as Glenn but on this most critical of issues he is the only sane voice in the crowd of madmen and women.
Indeed. Trump is a racist, sexist, obnoxious fraudster, but he’s not going to let the terrorists win in Syria like they did in Libya.
Mr. Greenwald,
I am a very dedicated reader of yours and really admire your work in all ways. I also really admire your debating skills. For this reason I was very enthusiastic to see you take down Sam Harris and his insidiously bigoted rhetoric a few years ago. But I remembering how the exchange between you and him started, I must warn here that I fear I am seeing a bit of a contradiction between these statement:
In the current article – ” who by spreading it around gave this claim their stamp of approval”
In Sam Harris, the New Atheists, and anti-muslim animus:
“Tweeting a link to an Al Jazeera column about Harris and saying I find one of his quotes revealing does not make me responsible for every claim in that column. I tweet literally thousands of columns and articles for people to read. I’m responsible for what I say, not for every sentence in every article to which I link on Twitter. The space constraints of Twitter have made this precept a basic convention of the medium: tweeting a link to a column or article or re-tweeting it does not mean you endorse all of it (or even any of it).”
I certainly get that there’s a difference between publicizing an opinion piece that you think is worth reading regardless on whether you agree with it or not, and publicizing an article that reports falsehoods. But of course we all know that Harris has a habit of perceiving (or at least to claim it) that he’s been misrepresented and slandered, and so from this perception there would be little to no difference between sharing a defaming column and sharing a piece of propaganda.
I’m not sure what I’m hoping to point out here other than that there may be at least a perceivable double standard here if we’re on the one hand to consider journalists who re-tweet bad articles to be “giving their stamp of approval” while at the same time washing your hands from any responsibility from the content of stuff you re-tweet. Or at least I think the distinction between the two deserves to be explained. Probably something along the lines that it’s ok to share columns or articles that may promote an analysis of facts with which we entirely disagree as long as the facts on which it’s built are accurate. I don’t know..
Considering that almost the entire media, the mega-corporations and major newspapers are promoting Hillary, covering for her– please explain how Trump is more dangerous? Wouldn’t their shilling for her make for a more dangerous situation?
First of all–they won’t be investigating her once she’s elected because that would put them in a bad light for having shilled for her.
Second–I’m no Trump fan but I have to state–Trump has said bad things but Hillary has done bad things. She’s responsible for the deaths of thousands.
The very fact that deceit is being employed and that the “journalists” are falling for it is chilling.
When the press no longer holds the powerful accountable then our democracy is done for. I really am frightened by what is happening with the press in this election, how they are willing to be subverted. And for what?
Spot on sir.
There should be a site that tracks and documents journalistic fraud, so these people can be properly shamed and deterred.
Those same people (and their downstream cohorts) would also be right there with their self-justifying and self righteous wrongness in backing every breach of international law by a Clinton administration.
The LA Times has Trump up 3 points.
I don’t believe Mr.Greenwald has any idea of the actual mood of the American people.We hate our current direction,forever war,and the absolute lock the zionists have on every information outlet in America,with the criminals all ignoring Trumps obvious whoop ass the other night,and playing up the divisions among rethugs,women and other divide and conquer memes.
Any rational American patriot knows this election is about restoring American sovereignty from the dual citizen traitors.
Which of course is why they hate Trump,as he will deliver.
Is Trump the ideal candidate?Well,no,probably,but he’s all we’ve got in an pool of ziowhores.
Trump for POTUS.
That LA Times poll has a flawed methodology so I wouldn’t use that as an indicator of where things stand. Not that I really trust in other poll either to give an accurate picture of where things are but the LA Times one is especially flawed.
Speak for yourself, not the country.
Established (Establishment?) journalism has been going down this road for a long time. In the search for balance (erroneous or otherwise), it is expected that, especially after all of Trump’s really abysmal recent news, that the established media would seek out stories to restore some equilibrium to the race (to keep us interested and consuming). I’m not sure if the latest Wikileaks releases contain that much damaging info (literally that’s what I mean; it may or may not, I don’t know), but I can envision a press that seeks to amplify or shade stories to cast HRC in a negative light to swing the pendulum back.
If I were a Clinton operative in this current environment, I think I’d like to hang back and let the Trump campaign implode on its own, but caution would probably dictate that I try to get in front of any possible negative story and spin. The fact that we have a significant number in the media who are compliant only makes the decision easier.
Now, I don’t like that it’s the way it is, but I understand it. That’s why it’s important to have these kinds of discussions, and The Intercept and others are doing valuable work writing about these issues. Ultimately, it’s about the size and number of the megaphones, and I’m not so naïve to think there’s enough counterbalancing journalism out there. Absent a populace that decides to get much more involved and aware (never going to happen), all we can do is hope that articles challenging the narratives put forth by established media gain enough exposure and traction to have an impact on how the established media behaves going forward (also fairly unlikely, I’m afraid).
Those tactics now most prominently include dismissing away any facts or documents that reflect negatively on their leaders as fake, …
I recall way back when the first of the hacked emails (DNC at the time) came to light, there was a concerted effort to place into the collective public conscious the idea that “really good” fakes could be introduced and no one would be able to tell them from the real thing. I’m paraphrasing, but that was the gist that seemed to be emanating from multiple lofty people, muddying the waters and planting the seeds for the willful ignorance to follow.
Now comes along this Eichenwald tool, who can’t tell the chickens from the eggs – even those he himself was responsible for “breaking” – finger-painting in the rotted yolks and selling it as fine art to the rubes in the gallery.
The biggest problem with this tactic, one they don’t seem to apprehend, is that it leaves gapingly open for interpretation their own version of any given set of events.
Just in case anyone is wondering: Not theoretically impossible, but practically impossible in reality.
The messages are real.
Hillary Clinton literally confirmed the authenticity of these leaks by defending a quote from a speech summary on Sunday before deflecting to Russia. It’s really simple to figure out, but the media would prefer to have their target on Trump exclusively and brush these off as a non-story.
It amazes me how partisan this country is and how critical thinking outside of the left-right spectrum is a very rare occurrence these days.
Time for new blood to run.
The Democratic establishment has sharp knives at the ready, prepared to spill any new blood that dares to shake things up.
One does not even need to see the Guccifer leaks to see the blatant tilt of the DNC against progressives like Bernie Sanders, Alan Grayson, Tim Canova and Cynthia McKinney.
One of my favorite things about the democratic party leaks is the top to bottom unison of belief that ‘Russian Government Hackers For Trump’ are infinitely more plausible than someone(s) within the democratic party structure who is moral enough to be a whistle blower.
It’s just not even on the menu.
Think about what a confession that is. Think about what an insane belief system that is.
Think of the mindset of submission that comes when disobedience is implausible.
But understand this submission is also meant as a threat.
good thought-provoking comment…..I am torn between declaring they are “really” just cynical, and thinking that continuous rationalization creates neural sinkholes.
In a way, the instant demonization of Snowden a few years ago by mainstream liberals was some kind of mental preparation for this year, where leaks provide the main critique of the functioning of the Democratic Party as a democratic institution, much less a progressive one.
I am the same way, but I keep going back to the Glengarry Glen Ross idea that the biggest believers are the ones consciously selling the scam. So those two ideas aren’t necessarily incompatible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMuU6Xx2HLc
(warning youtube link)
Truth-tellers are often demonized. You don’t hear Frank Serpico talking about police being reported in the mainstream media. You don’t hear Colleen Rowley talking about foreign policy or law enforcement. You don’t hear Craig Murray talking about ANYTHING. They’ve been proven right on many things, far more so than the mainstream. Yet they are ignored simply for the fact that they tell the truth and will not compromise. THAT is treated as a crime and a sin. Shame.
http://www.bartleby.com/102/128.html
One of several conclusions, that can be drawn from this – We’re screwed, no matter who is elected.
“he cited an erroneous story from a non-credible Russian outlet, so it’s worth noting”
If 1 mistake was proof of “non-credibility”, then I’m afraid the Intercept is in the same category just like every other publication.
That was such a mainstream comment.
Read the piece again. This time, “read for meaning.”
“But come January, Democrats will continue to be the dominant political faction in the U.S. – more so than ever – and the tactics they are now embracing will endure past the election, making them worthy of scrutiny. Those tactics now most prominently include dismissing away any facts or documents that reflect negatively on their leaders as fake, and strongly insinuating that anyone who questions or opposes those leaders is a stooge or agent of the Kremlin, tasked with a subversive and dangerously un-American mission on behalf of hostile actors in Moscow.”
Here we read Glenn Greenwald criticizing others journalistic smear tactics by foretelling the future. Where can I buy the officially endorsed Greenwald tarot deck?
I think we can get you that deck. Now, it won’t be cheap, of course, and I can’t guarantee the wording of Glenn’s endorsement. . .
This kinda thing has been playing out on social media sites over the past year in attempts to silence voices of opposition or opinion. NYC DC or N.Va lawyers and other cohorts who are veterans of multiple presidential and senatorial campaigns are deployed as roving internet trolls to attack social media darlings.
The lawyers or cohort have backgrounds proclaiming links to US intel humint sigint political campaigns think tanks etc. on and on
The attack they use has always been the same: you’re a Russian operative or collaborator.
I think it’s the HRC PAC guy,… real famous asshole, can’t recall his name, that’s the brains behind this.. has worked both sides of the US two party system.
Mark Twain anticipated Twitter when he wrote: ‘A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes’. However, once a lie is believed by enough people, it becomes the truth. All journalists know this. The burden of proof isn’t on the person who makes the claim; it is on the person who is in the minority.
Glenn, your story about the cozy relationship between journalists and the Clinton campaign underscores why discerning truth from propaganda in the media is becoming more important than ever before.
https://theintercept.com/2016/10/09/exclusive-new-email-leak-reveals-clinton-campaigns-cozy-press-relationship/
You end that article and this one correctly pointing out that it’s the scale of the operation and the openness with which these tactics are employed that is the most troubling aspect of this election.
“They have cast all limits and constraints to the side, believing that any narrative or accusation or smear, no matter how false or conspiratorial, is justified in pursuit of it.”
disinformation in the US goes so far down the rabbit hole, one has to ask:
how can you really find the truth?
This is the Age of Deception, folks…
Glenn, were you expecting the LIB-ruls to be any different that the CON-servatives?
Granted, the stories are over-hyped and over-sensationalized. And there is no solid proof for claims of a direct connections between Trump & Putin. Yet this is not Trumps first Russian rodeo. Trump has opened the door many times with his fawning references to Putin (on camera) so why shouldn’t Clinton (and her sycophants) come inside? Is it supposed to surprise anyone that both sides are competing in one of the biggest misinformation duels this century? There is a war on truth that Trump is apparently winning, isn’t that what the Intercept has itself recently published? Disclaimer – criticism of Trump is not equal to support of Clinton.
What does anything you wrote there have to do with the fact that not just no “solid proof” is in this misinformation campaign, but no proof or evidence at all is in this misinformation campaign?
I will assume you are referring to the much-hyped Clinton camp’s misinformation campaign against wikileaks (for which there is just as much “proof” for as against) and not, as I was referring in my comment, the giant misinformation campaign against the entire U.S. (and as much of the rest of the world that will listen) being perpetrated by RNC, DNC and every fucking “news outlet,” be they “independent” (which is a fucking joke), “mainstream,” “corporate owned,” hanging to the right, left or maybe somewhere in the middle. And, based on that assumption, I answer you this way – not a fucking thing.
Yeah Chollie I’d call that kind of surprising: that the Clinton campaign is so fucking dumb and empty that they think saying “Putin!” is their best bet, their strongest argument. That they think it makes them look good instead of like a joke.
I admit to not having seen that coming a few months ago, and I had low expectations.
so the question is how do we spread the truth, over the spread of this lie? How many people read the Intercept, how many people read the smart words of Greenwald? Such scary times, not just for US citizens but for the entire world.
Tell your friends. Bring brute facts to bear. If they are too blind to see them now, wait. Hillary will mess up, and given her track record, it will be severe. Then, go back to them, bring the facts up, and see if she changes her mind. Barring die-hard reactionaries or similar, you should get heard.
This way. This scam (Putin=WikiLeaks=Trump) was easily disabled by introducing such information under their posts:
https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/785862777890045953
Now, let the button “retweet” be pushed as many times as possible.
I am not surprised that you dismiss legitimate concerns over Russia’s involvement in our current elections, after all your main pony is being milked by the KGB for everything he has.
You are an excellent journalist Glenn, please do not be subverted by Lubyanka and its’ servants.
“…come January, Democrats will continue to be the dominant political faction in the U.S. ”
I used to have some respect for you, but that is the statement of someone with practically no understanding of US politics.